protection

[jagged pier]

fucking garbage tier

all raid tiers have been garbage this expansion

[chilly brook]

Idk, I enjoyed last tier minus Echo

Echo was ass

oh and Zskarn

[warm plinth]

I enjoyed you

Gottem

[chilly brook]

[jagged pier]

yer but u dps

[chilly brook]

freakin Asskarn is more like it

[jagged pier]

theres been literally no difference

in tank mechanics

from normal to mythic in any raid

[chilly brook]

in 7 expansions yeah

[jagged pier]

at least there were other stuff going on in other expansions or the bosses actually hit hard enough to kill like the jailer

or sire (if u were warrior)

[chilly brook]

nah fam

fuck jailer

ass boss

sire good

honestly I should do more stuff in prot again

[pallid quiver]

I don't think those are real bosses, like how people keep making up this "Shadowlands" xpac

[chilly brook]

real it's just some bad fan fiction

[covert flower]

sire might have been a perfect boss IMO

p1 got a bit repetitive but you still couldn't fuck around

and it was so fun/hard to tank, like all of your movement felt meaningful

[pallid quiver]

I also say we've got the bad kind of career raid tanks to blame

As in the ones who desperately struggle with the tank mechs as they are, and that's before we even get to their like 20 CPM

Yet are just comfy situated until they're done playing as their guild's tank

[warm plinth]

20 cpm 😱

[pallid quiver]

The single worst players I have ever seen are tank spec player mains.

Most of them have also had at least Heroic clearing guilds, and one was trying to push Mythic raid.

[cinder marsh]

hey quick question, out of the 5 twitch streamers yall said to look at for prot warr guides in the guides channle, which one of them would you reccomend for a step by step guide on how to master the spec?

[blazing condor]

Dont think any of them have step by step guides

They just showcase how to play the spec at high levels mostly

Nomeratur now being the wowhead writer for pwarr is the closest youll get

So go look up his guide in that case

[hardy snow]

there is new color of shroom on tindral :v

[drifting juniper]

i miss banner

just randomly putting it out there after 3rd beer

[torn gulch]

damn reflect is so cracked on last boss in hoi

i hope it's not getting nerfed that

[ionic roost]

Council boss doesn't frontal on normal, mythic Sark needed the tank to go down not just outrange, there's probably others just 2 notables I remember

[urban portal]

isnt that because a lot of tank players are older players

who arent used to modern mechanics

[median tulip]

Hard same

[pallid quiver]

I don't know the reason why, all I know is the performances I see

Taunt swaps are extremely hard concepts to grasp

And that's before we get to things like any of Jailer's mechanics or going down on Sark

[median tulip]

I'm often amazed by how many tanks fuck up the tank swaps on pug runs

And then the idiot raid leader kicks you because you died because the other tank fucked up

[pallid quiver]

I just get used to solo tanking encounters as much as possible

not like their taunts do anything, anyway, since I just rip off 3 seconds later

[strong forum]

You're the one that died so clearly you fucked up

[median tulip]

Yeah, I fucked up by joining an idiots pug raid

[uneven tapir]

Blood dk or prot warrior go

[median tulip]

Whichever you find most fun]

[median tulip]

Welp, shit vault

[pallid quiver]

ur a shit vault

gottem

[strong forum]

grats

[ionic fern]

Enjoy it for 3 weeks.

[ionic nimbus]

Leech Pog, Bad Timing anyways

[ionic fern]

Totally un-biased opinion, Prot Warrior.

[fringe lava]

Does anyone have a WA for absorb shield progress bar showing the remaining amount and not the remaining duration?

[jagged pier]

i dont think there is a general one, you will need to find one for the specific shield u want to track

[hardy snow]

luxthos pack have such feature on hp bar, but its separate hp bar, you can cut it from package if you want

[median tulip]

Such exist, but there's honestly not a lot of point to them. You're dumping Rage to avoid overcapping, so you're going to send IP even if you're totally full on IP absorption.

[fringe lava]

Yea i was thinking for Rageheart and Cocoon etc. Absorbs as externals etc

[median tulip]

Oh I see

Rageheart is a myth ofc. Doesn't actually exist.

But yeah it's simple enough to build a weak aura to track a specific buff if you know the SpellID

[torn gulch]

i got it in lfr and that's what i used this season it served me well

[fringe lava]

I can't figure out how to make the progress bar show the remaining value, just the remaining duration. I would like for it to show value based on my health pool or based on total value. - might not be of great value but it bugs me that I can't do it 🤣

[earnest cove]

https://wago.io/oWdYKPbj1 maybe this?

[fringe lava]

Oooh this looks promising, I will have a look tonight if it does what I failed to do!
Cheers bud

[hardy snow]

it does

[ruby berry]

It's even got the leeches

[urban bane]

they put bugs in him

[waxen frigate]

It’s to suck the 5G mind control out of your bloodstream

[cerulean tusk]

Only 4% to go

[lusty tiger]

What else?

[pallid quiver]

Don't you mean 53.05% more?

[warm plinth]

53.05?

oh

smh

[strong forum]

You can go over 20%, there is no "avoidance cap"

[pallid quiver]

but 20's a nice, round number

though my suggestion is much nicer

[thin silo]

it was capped back in BfA I'm pretty sure
did they change it?

[strong forum]

It wasn't capped it bfa

It was maybe capped at some point in legion

Where the rumour stems from

But it's not been capped since then

The true and only cap to tertiaries that currently exists is how many item slots you have, however tertiary stats have very aggressive diminishing returns that start at already 10% iirc

[cerulean tusk]

BFA was where I got to know the 20% cap wasn't upheld, and you could stack more over the "limit" if able. Not sure if or if not the cap was a thing where the 20% cap comes from tho, I can't remember

[shut summit]

was a cap long time ago

[pallid quiver]

It makes me feel old saying a long time ago in regard to avoidance as a stat

because avoidance to me was dodge/parry/block combined with your defense skill

[ionic fern]

This channel really lit up over the night, wild.

[pallid quiver]

Yeah, absolutely wild party

[hasty fjord]

Question: What does speed actually do for us if anything at all? I have an option to get a piece of gear same ilvl yet it comes with +300 speed on it? Not sure if I should get that or pass? Thanks.

[ionic fern]

Well, it's really simple - it increases your movement speed.

So..you run faster.

[jagged pier]

Over 10 messages overnight!

[ionic fern]

Jeah, we active again.

[hasty fjord]

But is that all it does? Simply make us a bit faster?

[ionic fern]

[ionic fern]

Yes.

[hasty fjord]

So I should pass on it, thank you for the speedily reply. Thank you.

[ionic fern]

I miss Legion movement speed sets.

Swapping gear in dungeons and zooming from pack to pack was fun.

[pallid quiver]

he doesn't understand the glory of zoom

speed bis

[jagged gust]

So having missed S1, what's SR like for the S1 dungeons coming into rotation? Cuz just eyeballing the spreadsheet it looks like a majority of the damage is either block or reflectable

[ionic fern]

Je, it's fine, nothing gigantic tho.
Iirc, you could reflect the wind boss in Nokhud for some decent damage.

I personally just don't enjoy the dungeons because there's going to be a bazillion casters that just chain cast.

Meaning VDH with double sigil and prot pally will just wreck everything.

[jagged gust]

Fair enough, I didn't mind the other half in S2 aside from being absolute dogshit at backpedaling Chomps, oh also rock shower, maybe just Uldaman in general I really felt strained in that dungeon

Was hoping it would improve from that

[ionic fern]

Well, we do have a different tier set now, which provides more DS up-time with TL, and more TR.

Which in turn leads to more Rage and more IP etc.

[jagged gust]

Yeah kinda wish I played more prot this season, this set feels kinda like back in bfa or w/e we had corruption, just thunderclapping constantly

[ionic fern]

Je, i personally enjoy the playstyle, but i know a lot of people don't. 😄

[jagged gust]

btw as far as you know are S1 guides relatively accurate to what we're seeing on the ptr?

[ionic fern]

S1 guides about what? And where?

[jagged gust]

oh sorry, I meant about the S1 dungeons coming into the rotation for S4

I'm actually just assuming they're on the ptr

and in terms of walkthroughs like say of Quazzi on youtube or possibly wowhead staff guides

[ionic fern]

I haven't checked into any "s1 dungeon guides", so i can't comment.
There have been some abilities that have been changed for some mobs etc, and some skips (AV) that are not do-able anymore, but i'd imagine the general YT guides would still hold more or less true.

[jagged gust]

Okay cool, sorry my coffee hasn't kicked in yet clearly lol

[ionic fern]

Same, and i'm about to get me 3rd cup.

[jagged gust]

It's the gamer life for me, not enough coffee in the world is gonna make up for late night 40 renown plunder farm

[ionic fern]

I still haven't even logged into Plunderstorm.

[jagged gust]

It's mildly entertaining once you git gud

As far as grinds go it's been my favorite

but I would never have touched it if not for wanting to look like a Victorian pretending to be a pirate

[jagged pier]

Plunderstorm good
Collectors have to do far worse things so dont know why they complaining about a fun new game mode

Like i spent more time over the years farming tusks than it took to get 40 renown on plubderstorm

And i can tell u now plubderstorm far more fun than farming seige

[ionic fern]

Oh, i'd 100% take Plunderstorm like gameplay for reputation gains over some mindless daily quests.

[jagged pier]

Like i havent read the comments yet but collectors now have a 6 year grind to get all the ducks

Ive heard less up roar about that than plunderstorm

[median tulip]

There are some abilities that have been removed or changed, which alters their importance. For example, the sceptres in AA now require hard stops, but one of the other trash mobs in that area has had its hard stop requiring cast removed, so it's just a case of stopping a different mob now.

[ionic fern]

[blazing condor]

ppl probably mad cus "they gotta do pvp"

[jagged pier]

But they have too anyway for pvp elite sets 🤷

[blazing condor]

your problem is assuming these people are rational thinkers

[jagged pier]

I dont because i made that arguement already and ppl just refused to aknowledge it

[strong forum]

woah

freedom?

[viral arch]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1118357877065793608.gif?size=160&quality=lossless

[jagged pier]

Freedom!

[wind oak]

I need yellow color so i can use bear emote

[median tulip]

I.
Hate.
Sanguine.

[ionic fern]

Sanguine week is over, no?

[median tulip]

No

It's Fort/Incorp/Sang RN

[ionic fern]

oh, right

I did keys yesterday.

[strong forum]

xd

[viral arch]

you want a banger tip

that you likely didn't think about

that helps so many BDKs out

go to plater

enable execute mod

set to 20%

make it bright fucking red nameplate color

you'll never be surprised by sanguine ever again

obviously there's no fix for "I ignored it and now the mob is healing" but at least it'll highlight shit about to die on that week

[median tulip]

I'm never surprised by it; I can read plater nameplates. I just can't do anything about it when they stand in sanguine and chain cast

[ionic fern]

Have you tried being a VDH?

[viral arch]

you can move the mobs about to die off it though

[strong forum]

be aware that they cast

[viral arch]

like

you know what chaincasts

[strong forum]

so act prior to them casting

[viral arch]

don't pile mobss right on them as they're about to die

[median tulip]

I'd sooner gouge my own eyes out OH WAIT

[pearl zinc]

Me Mr me

[strong forum]

say no to vdh

dont believe the propaganda

[median tulip]

I said it before DF, I will say it again now; they need to give us Dragon Charge or some other form of mob displacement ability

In PvE

[wind oak]

Would be epic

Pretty much every class and their mother have an ability to move mobs why not us

[median tulip]

I wouldn't mind so much if I could rely on the DPS classes to use their mob displacement, but asking a DPS to push a button that doesn't do damage is an exercise in futility

Most DPS don't even know what an Interrupt is, let alone any other utility

[wind oak]

Everybody kick at once

[ionic fern]

You have it, wdym:

[wind oak]

2 points for a 1min30 knockback

Forgor this shit was there

[median tulip]

Yeah

Not exactly going to solve any problems

Whereas Dragon Charge is like... a 20s CD?

[wind oak]

Isnt that still hard capped too ?

[median tulip]

Gimme that shit.

[strong forum]

menace is uncapped

which makes intim shout all the more infuriating

turn a 5cap CC into uncapped

with the downside of knocking them back

[ionic fern]

Sure, but you have the option.
It's the same reasoning as to why is our AoE silence a 1.5m CD and actually has to interrupt the cast to work vs DH's Sigil.

[wind oak]

Its baffling how blizzard do their ability

[median tulip]

Fkn Small Indie Company issues

[wind oak]

Vdh are special need kid that got too many toys

[median tulip]

In fact I will go further than just Dragon Charge; easily half of the PvP talents should be turned into PvE/Generally available abilities

[pearl zinc]

Pls take away our toys

No one wants double utility sigils

[ionic fern]

You want triple utility sigils?

[pearl zinc]

Quadruple sigils

If my rotation isn’t all sigils, then something went wrong design wise

[ionic fern]

I agree. While we're trying to push VDH to sigil based gameplay, lets push Warrior towards a shouting one.
I think it would benefit us all.

[pearl zinc]

Great minds great minds

[ionic fern]

We'll become the bards of WoW, but instead of instruments, we will shout at people like mid-level management.

[pearl zinc]

Heroism shout for warrior

Brez shout

[ionic fern]

I also vote for a shout that displaces friendly players like a priest grip.

Like a "Taunting Shout", but for allies.

[pearl zinc]

A reverse shout

[grim pilot]

shout that increases damage of nearby players by 40% (stacks with bl) for 40 sec

[pearl zinc]

A inhale if you will

[rigid edge]

Shout of March

[pearl zinc]

That grips mobs towards u

[ionic fern]

Why hasn't blizzard hired you yet?

[rigid edge]

A inhale, yes, I wanna be kirby

[pearl zinc]

I lack the koalafications

https://tenor.com/view/kisses-koala-koala-kiss-australian-marsupial-gif-3283644436218052599

[ionic fern]

Just with it.

[pearl zinc]

[ionic fern]

I like your communication style - you're going on my "good" list.

[rigid edge]

https://tenor.com/view/kaden-bear-walk-gif-15031442544519350917

[pearl zinc]

Ur already on my list

My fren list

[rigid edge]

You two are cute

[pearl zinc]

No u

[ionic fern]

I graciously, accept.

[jagged pier]

Channel not dead?

[waxen frigate]

Group hug shout

[ionic fern]

We're keeping the channel alive.

Same as i'm keeping the dream of Mountain Thane getting changes alive.

[waxen frigate]

Mountain thane looked good did it not

[ionic fern]

I liked the theme way more than the alternative.

[waxen frigate]

Colossus was boring af to me

[ionic fern]

But the RNG'ness is concerning.

[waxen frigate]

Fair

We hate proc based effects

[ionic fern]

And some talents are borderline useless.

Which is also concerning.

[waxen frigate]

Which ones

The class tree is at least getting somewhat redone right?

[ionic fern]

Well, kinda, it mostly holds true if your whole tree resolves around "X can proc Y which can proc Z which sometimes procs I".

[waxen frigate]

Like shockwave becoming more core

[waxen frigate]

It’s the sometimes that’s the proble

Imo

[ionic fern]

Like AoE stormbolt.

Or Steadfast as the peaks.

[waxen frigate]

Is that a thing in mountain thane

I haven’t looked at it in months

[ionic fern]

Yes.

[waxen frigate]

That’s

Weird lmaooo

[ionic fern]

It was the first thing they displayed in the video way back.

On the announcement.

A warrior HEROIC LEAPING IN, and AoE stormbolting.

[waxen frigate]

Average pug prot warr

[ionic fern]

Already //// cause who Heroic Leaps to start combat.

[waxen frigate]

Let’s be real

Body pull or heroic throw

Only ways to pull

[ionic fern]

Agreed.

You just press W and w/e aggros onto you, you kill it.

[waxen frigate]

Also shield block is a 30min CD or something so gotta use it sparingly

[waxen frigate]

No, you’re a tank. Your job isn’t to kill things

You taunt.

[ionic fern]

Sorry, yes, i taunt.

[waxen frigate]

Shield slam? No. Shield block? No. Simply shield

[ionic fern]

I put shield up, i hear boink, i happy.

[waxen frigate]

DUNKDUNKDUNK

SHIIINK

CLAANG

[ionic fern]

Which reminds me, i was thinking of creating a funny Prot Warrior guide for Aprils fools, but never got around to it.
But i asked ChatGPT to write me a introduction -i'll share it cause it's actually solid.:

"Now, you might be thinking, "But what about those flashy Vengeance Demon Hunters or those holy rollers, the Protection Paladins?" Ah, yes, those fine specimens of tankitude! Vengeance Demon Hunters, with their demon-fueled fury and ability to jump around like caffeinated kangaroos, or Protection Paladins, wielding the might of the Light and the strength of righteous indignation. But let's be real here – they're like the sidekicks in a buddy cop movie compared to the main hero that is the Protection Warrior.

Picture this: while the Vengeance Demon Hunter is doing backflips and cartwheels trying to dodge attacks, and the Protection Paladin is busy praying for divine intervention, the Protection Warrior is casually shrugging off blows like a cat swatting away a pesky fly. Oh, did that boss just try to land a devastating blow? Sorry, it's blocked. Oh, what about that spell meant to turn your insides into mush? Nope, Reflected it back!"

[waxen frigate]

Mwahi is yogiposting

[ionic fern]

I just wanted to make a funny guide for Aprils fools. 😦

[waxen frigate]

I should make the worst guide possible

And market it as a plant-based alternative to Nomer’s guide

[compact palm]

Do it

[strong forum]

Plant-based and flat earth friendly

[lusty tiger]

I’ll run that build to 3k

[hazy bronze]

5G free

[warm plinth]

This is a work of art. Nice job ChatGPT

[hardy snow]

someone have to do it

[ionic fern]

Ya, i was actually surprised. 😄

[topaz field]

Is this the right place for some prot war S4 copium?

[jagged pier]

[topaz field]

oh no

[plush tendon]

wait.... you can use bearmotes here!

[strong forum]

[gusty willow]

Ah so this is the channel you dwell in

[ionic fern]

Jeah, the semi-onetrick Protection Warrior is in the #protection channel.

[topaz field]

Do you guys enjoy current prot in m+? I think im gonna play it

[ionic fern]

I enjoy it a lot.

[topaz field]

nice i only tanked a few 20s on 440 2 set but it already felt good despite having zero haste

i wanna reflect nokhud out of the dungeon pool tbh

[blazing condor]

At least u can do some fat reflects in the dg

Even if i too would like that

Hell get all DF dungeons out

[median tulip]

Nokhud is a sucky instance, it must be admitted

[blazing condor]

Illusion of freedom

”Omg we get to dragonride everywhere”

Then you dont actually utilise it in any cool ways

[median tulip]

Like 85% of the trash value is from the mandatory trigger mobs

[topaz field]

ye well that seems to be blizzard recent design logic

[median tulip]

It's this expansions Halls of Atonement

[gusty willow]

Never new what you played! I don’t click on profiles too often lol

[topaz field]

u can have your own route as long as you play these mandatory 80 % of trash

show me a creative uldaman route xD

same in bracken tbh

u have to play these 5 cages unless you are a priest

[median tulip]

No dungeon should have more than 50% of count as mandatory pulls, IMO

That should be a basic principle of dungeon design.

[ionic fern]

Fair enough, but jeah, this is where i'm hiding like 90% of the time.

[jagged pier]

He plays lock and mage

[ionic fern]

And resto druid.

[warm plinth]

Nokhud was actually enjoyable in the prior season

It sucks balls now with the mob changes in boss 3 area tbh

[ionic fern]

The 3rd boss itself was also horrid on high Tyrannical weeks.

Just onetapping people.

[hardy snow]

3rd boss is that pony pair?

[ionic fern]

Jeah

The melee dude and the archer.

[gusty willow]

Ban him

Mages disgust me

[jagged pier]

Hes blue he has the power

[strong forum]

i dont enjoy pwar as much currently

but moreso tanking in general

all keys feel the same as tank currently

you take 0 dmg but your group is perma dying

and theres nothing you can do

and your dmg output doesnt even matter as tank cuz theres 0 dps check in keys

you can play out of your mind well but it doesnt change anything

there's gonna be a boss where your DPS just get oneshot and youre just there like " okay well GG next key i guess"

[lusty tiger]

How can blizzard fix this

[strong forum]

introduce more rot mechanics

instead of "okay this does 1 gigantic hit"

kick it or someone dies instantly

[lusty tiger]

I wouldn’t mind DRs lasting a longer too

[wet pine]

Maybe more of an emphasis on throughput. Is that what SL was like?

[strong forum]

they gotta go away from that philosophy, use a CD here or die

[hardy snow]

they cant, with mode based on infinite scaling there will always be points where you have one shot or impossible to do dps/hps check

[lusty tiger]

I meant to go along with the rot mechanics you suggested

[strong forum]

like currently

its literally "have a defensive for this or die"

theres no inbetween

[lusty tiger]

Forsure

In some scenarios it’s have an immune or die

[strong forum]

well those scenarios are more to cheese

or to specifically play around that immune and create that scenario

e.g. rise first boss

you only have tank + immune soak

instead of all 5

but idk

tanking this season specifically feels weird, on all keylevels

[lusty tiger]

Well if there’s even one of those in most of the dungeons meta comps are going to require dps with immunes I think that’s a bit toxic

[strong forum]

im just doing my thing

[lusty tiger]

At least you’re back to warrior gaming

[strong forum]

keys feel the same on an 18 as they feel on a 28 as tank

[waxen frigate]

Literally just reduce spell damage being the only important barrier

Make them apply status effects or dots instead

And increase enemy health or reduce timers so that it’s more about going fast rather than “can x live this one shot”

[strong forum]

like theres been VERY few keys in wow history

that have been limited by DPS

its always group survival

[lusty tiger]

By the nature of keys won’t there always be a key level where someone is getting oneshot, or are you suggesting they need to make the damage requirement be too large before the survival requirement

[strong forum]

^

make the checks tighter

[strong forum]

and reduce the dmg curve

like look at current season

you have people getting 1shot in idk 26s without pressing defensives

but people are clearing up to 33s

[lusty tiger]

Right

[strong forum]

cuz of stacking and stacking of groupwide defensives

[lusty tiger]

Aug+immunes+group dr+etc

Shadowmeld

[strong forum]

aug isnt brought that often anymore

[lusty tiger]

Yeah fair

I like that there is a concept of group dr because that is fun teamwork/gameplay but not at the cost of like you said getting 1shot in +26 keys

Mass barrier is a great button in theory, but not when tyrannical bosses are tuned around it XD

[strong forum]

wouldnt say tuned aroudn it

moreso

less with m+ in mind

[lusty tiger]

At least the fact that this xpac m+ has gotten more tuning than it got in legion,bfa, and sl combined gives me hope for 11.0

But it kinda also exacerbates the need to separate raid and m+

[cerulean tusk]

I prefer WoW just being WoW,and not 4 different games. PvP fundamentally changing how abilities work, is bad enough in itself.
I don't t want that for m+

[waxen frigate]

Has it

[lusty tiger]

Seems to have

Affix changes out the wazoo, nerfs out the wazoo, spec balances based on m+, most new dungeons of any xpac

[cerulean tusk]

M+ saw a lot of quick fixes, quite a few hidden fixes, balancing and tuning. Not sure it was more than BFA,but overall they been really active on that front

[waxen frigate]

“New”

Also the balance the dungeons like

Once per tier

And then seem to just fucking leave them

And then we get new ones

And it’s just a repeating cycle

Idk. I’ve only played since SL but m+ this xpac felt way fucking worse to me

[lusty tiger]

I’m not saying it was better

I’m saying they are much more willing to tune it during the patches

And yea “new” lol but I guess recycled more like it

[cerulean tusk]

SL had those silly covenant requirements (spears, orbs, fonts, etc), and forced interactions to exploit (borrers, bolstered axes, so on and on). Not as much of that in DF.
That is a win for DF m+. Now, SL had Karazhan and more fun thematic places, and you got to be extremely familiarised with them. Guess that would be a merit for some, over more variance in dungeon pool.

[lusty tiger]

I was more of getting at the fact that they are willing to play around with the fundamental game design of m+ as a whole

The need to do raid for m+ bis and m+ hard spam for raid prog and upgrade currency is a little too toxic though and unfair to both parties imo

The issue with PvP <- raid -> m+

Is that they were built to be mini games outside of raid, but have each evolved into its own form of content so a lot of skills and abilities don’t work across the three or even from raid to one or the other

[hardy snow]

whats the problem? both are PvE

[lusty tiger]

Shouldn’t have to grind one to get bis for the other

[hardy snow]

but you dont need bis from raid to do M+ and vice versa

[lusty tiger]

You have an advantage if you do

Like if you want to optimize raiding you get 2500 io m+ week 1

That is silly

[hardy snow]

why is existing of such posibility silly?

you CAN do that, but you dont have to

you can easily raid without spamming hard M+

[lusty tiger]

Yes you can also play without enchants or the correct talents

[rigid edge]

I do know a lot of raiders and pve players been pushed away from the game due m+, and how entangled it is on the gameplay loop now, so I agree, I think it got to a point they should split both

[lusty tiger]

If you can get the best gear doing some type of content, you’re going to have some sort of obligation to do it for your raid prog

[hardy snow]

correct talents changes how your spec works, spamming M+ just speeds up your gear progression, so its quite bad comparison

[lusty tiger]

If you can get the most op aoe trinkets by raiding you’re going to feel obligated to do it for your m+ team

[hardy snow]

you dont have to spam 20 M+/week to prog raid

[lusty tiger]

If your bis trinket is in a dungeon you do

Or if you need enough currency to craft and upgrade

[hardy snow]

you can live and prog without this trinket

[lusty tiger]

Sure, and people do

But then they might be benched or they might be looked down upon for not giving the extra grind to help their raid prog

[hardy snow]

if you dont want to do extra grind - play in a guild that doesnt requires that

[lusty tiger]

That is toxic

Ok but what if you want to be in a ce guild

[hardy snow]

there are plenty of ce guilds that doesnt requires such heavy grind, for lots of them 4 weekly keys are enough

[lusty tiger]

Yep

Because everyone just chooses the “in moderation” option

[hardy snow]

but if you like silly comparisons, here's one - if you want Ferrari, you cant expect that you will afford it by working in McD, its hard and honest work, but to get Ferrari you need to do more, same is with CE - its defeating hardest bosses in tier, you cant expect to do it by just raid logging twice per week

[lusty tiger]

Why not

[hardy snow]

because thats how life works, to achieve something thats hardest thing possible, you must do more than just average

[rigid edge]

I think the issue is there is very capable raiders, that don't enjoy M+ but in order to gear up they have to put up with it one way or the other cause it's the loop we have, what if M+ was not a thing and you'd have to do pvp, you just killing pixels on a screen, so it's the same right?

[lusty tiger]

I just think raid content should supply enough gameplay to be 100% maximum relevant in raid each week

[hardy snow]

good thing, weekly vault keys next season and in TWW (unless Blizz changes it) will have one affix less, thats good imo

[rigid edge]

Yeah, also Delves, I believe the more options the better don't get me wrong, but M+ is a whole deal on it self which is what I believe turn some players off, as you said I think the changes on S4 will be interesting

[lusty tiger]

This has been an issue since vanilla, starting off with pvp weapons in vanilla and tbc

[rigid edge]

Yeah I remember

[fair elm]

If you just have Details to look at -- is there a way to get at the relative mitigation you had? e.g. Estimating what WCL gives as EHRPS or something similar?

[strong forum]

Nop

If you didn't feel like you were constantly knocking on deaths door and the healer didn't complain about having to heal you, you probably did fine

But without logs it's hard to tell if you did good or not

[cerulean tusk]

You can look at damage taken, then crossreference that with your HPS, remove HPS from DTPS, and you got the number you are looking for

[fair elm]

Yeah, for sure -- I just don't have logs but looking at Details in this particular instance

Would "total absorbs" under damage taken be an estimate of avoidance/mitigation?

[strong forum]

Nah

Our mitigation doesn't show up in details

[fair elm]

F

[strong forum]

Part of the reason why it's not popular with the alot of casuals

They don't have instant feedback of doing well

Can't just look at healing meter and be like "woah I healed so much this is awesome"

[cerulean tusk]

BDK! BDK!

[pallid quiver]

on an unrelated note, it feels something to outheal a BDK and taking less damage than them, so it's not like you solo tanked

[fair elm]

I feel like a prot warrior should never outheal a bdk, yeah?

[strong forum]

only way that happens is if the BDK never tanks

or its a very low tank dmg boss

like council or nymue

[pallid quiver]

or they press death strike like once a minute

[lime parcel]

Disrupting shout: worth the talent point? I feel like I have trouble gathering caster packs in pugs

[grim pilot]

Yes

[lime parcel]

What should I drop for it

[pallid quiver]

I've never picked up disrupting shout in a key

[grim pilot]

Battering ram

[pallid quiver]

You'd likely drop Bloodsurge if you were to take it, since battering ram gives a non-zero amount of rage and damage

[lime parcel]

Bloodsurge is what I figured since that seems to be what gets dropped in some other build variations

[pallid quiver]

It does hurt you a non-zero amount, by the way. Bloodsurge is a good point

And you also lose access to aoe taunt as an aoe taunt

In exchange for an aoe interupt

[lime parcel]

It still taunts doesn’t it?

Or do you just mean because I’d be saving it for interrupts

[pallid quiver]

The latter

The situations in which you'd use it for both purposes at the same time are not frequent

[lime parcel]

I mean the cd isn’t that long and my reason for using it to interrupt would be less frequent, just making some pulls less awkward

But also maybe I’m just shit at routes and pulling, that’s extremely possible, I find learning M+ routes tedious and difficult even with MDT

[pallid quiver]

It's notable in that it may not help in those situations, as well, since it's not a silence like people treat it sometimes; it's an AOE interrupt, meaning they all need to be casting at the same time and be in 14 yards

For most of those situations, if just gathering, you can usually just LOS to gather

[lime parcel]

Interesting I didn’t realize it didn’t lock out for a few seconds like kicks do

That does make it considerably worse

[pallid quiver]

It does lock out for a few seconds still

6 iirc

[lime parcel]

Ok that’s what I thought

[pallid quiver]

But it's not a silence; they can cast still if you don't interrupt like an interrupt

[lime parcel]

Oh I see what you mean, they all have to be actively casting at the time I press it for that to work

[pallid quiver]

So they have to be casting at the time of sending the shout

[lime parcel]

It’s not like divine toll on a protpal

[pallid quiver]

unlike, say, sigil of silence, which conveniently tells them to shut the fuck up and follow, baby caster

[lime parcel]

The amount of disruption vdh gets makes me actively angry as someone who doesn’t enjoy playing it at all lol

But yeah might be better off taking my bonus bloodsurge rage and trying to convince pug dps to kick, or just being more creative with pulls

[pallid quiver]

I know Nome doesn't like to run it, but Pika does, so it's worth messing with and seeing if you like it or not

The most important thing in the end is to time the key, after all

[lime parcel]

I’ve tried using it and it doesn’t seem to work as well as I’d expected but I think it’s because I didn’t clock the difference from an aoe silence like you explained

[grim pilot]

Some dps diff you’ll do will rarely make or break the key

[lime parcel]

I mean rage matters for survivability too right?

[grim pilot]

Yes

[lime parcel]

I love playing my warrior but man do casters just feel like such a ballache to deal with. Picked up my alt paladin and was just floored at the difference. Trying to look for ways to mitigate the issue it is all.

Relatively new to all of the above though. I’ve played off and on for a few years but never taken it seriously before

[grim pilot]

Spell block is extremely powerful

Against magic damage

[lime parcel]

Mitigating damage isn’t the worry, more controlling mobs

Although I am probably underusing spell block, that’s likely a major gap in my gameplay

[deft hinge]

Not only that, disrupting shout only silences 1 school of magic. So if caster has 2 spells, he will often immediately cast the other even if u aoe interrupt one

vdh is all school of magic aoe interrupt

[hardy snow]

you cant do everything, your teammates must also work on that

[covert flower]

Said it before and I'll say it again, fuck the mob control

Just make us an absolute juggernaut, huge damage, huge tankiness, big theme

Things like grips/silences don't really fit in well with warrior identity wise, I'm fine with having casters require external help for grouping, as long as we feel super powerful in return

[deft hinge]

the thing is that Blizz wants every non meta tank class envy the meta tank and make an alt so they spend more time playing the game. Because even when Blizz says its important to spend time away from game, its just text and they dont really mean it

[grim pilot]

Obviously a billion dollar company will prefer to have its customers keep using their product

[blazing condor]

might be wrong but i feel like the "crazy mmo" days are over and ppl dont spend 48 hours in a row playing wow

like you heard stories of people doing back in the day

[errant leaf]

Disrupting shout is huge for controlling casters pack

[median tulip]

You have clearly never played Eve Online, is all I'm going to say to that

[blazing condor]

probably true

meant for wow specifically

[warm plinth]

Disrupting shout is meh

[median tulip]

Disrupting Shout is great... on Dathea

[crystal mauve]

Disrupting shout should be a silence

[jagged pier]

i mean it is technically

[crystal mauve]

It’s not, silence stop all schools of magic and prevent you from doing so while you are affected by the effect. If you don’t interrupt the casters with Disrupting shout it only taunt and don’t stop them from casting

Even if you successfully interrupt a cast, as mentioned above, it stops 1 that specific school of magic and not everything

[jagged pier]

yer it silences them for 6 seconds on one school of magic

technically it does silence just not very well

[crystal mauve]

It prevent them from casting that school of magic. The definition of silence (as per wowhead) is prevent any cast tho. Anyway we agree, it’s not as good as it could/should

[cerulean tusk]

Problem is that WoW isn't consistent with it's own terminology.

Silence should stop all casts, except physical. A spell lock should stop that school of magic. An interrupt stops that cast in particular.

In WoW reality tho: silence is all from an interrupt effect to a pacification effect (stopping all even physical casts).

There is no true rule. So that definition of silence would be kind of untrue and bad to use. It simply is anything the dev at the time want it to be.

[median tulip]

Some silences are true supression, but not all

[cerulean tusk]

I wish they could just put in the effort to follow their own rules on this

[lime parcel]

Idk, I think punching some nerd mage in the face to stop him casting his little spell feels about right

[cerulean tusk]

Many forget that casters have to wave their hands and use verbal components, to cast most spells. Something that is in theory very easily interrupted by someone physically superior brawling with them in melee.

So when the mage starts waving his hands and chanting, pummelling in his teeth in and filling his mouth with blood would quite efficiently stop that and keep him silent.

So, warrior silencing and interupting in melee, fits perfectly.

[lime parcel]

They could rename pummel to “pipe down, nerd”

[covert flower]

I mean that is essentially pummel. We have that, I meant like

I'm fine with having the magical tanks have all the cool mob control stuff

Like I think DKs gripping shit in is super sick and should be exclusive to them, VDH having it is kinda shitty, but I'm fine with silence sigil because I think sigils in general are kinda cool

Like tanks/healers should all feel completely unique and have a very core element that defines what they are

Since there are much fewer specs than DPS, it should be achievable

And they kind of succeed in some areas, like warriors are hands down the best tank at just eating hard hitting melees (I guess BDK is good too, it just does it through its own identity which is death strike)

But in most content are you ever gatekept by eating hard hitting melees, almost never

The sad reality is in m+ what matters is speed and execution, what makes that easier? Big damage and controlling mobs (which allows your group to do big damage and alleviate the danger in a pull)

I don't think a tank should ever be great at both

Tankiness has kinda fell down the totem pole hard and is almost the last thing you look at now when discussing tank strength, all tanks can get the job done defensively at the highest key levels pretty much

[plush tendon]

sigils are really cool, but double sigil plus CDR on sigil use is way too much

and thats coming from someone whos been playing (abusing) VDH

[lime parcel]

I struggle to imagine how they thought double sigils were a good idea

How was that ever going to result in anything but vdh's total dominance in m+

[lime parcel]

Yeah I mean I feel like the really rough physical damage in keys isn't even melees, it's bleeds, which we struggle against anyway

[grim pilot]

Most keys u dont have bleeds though

And if you do its in very specific parts of the dungeon

2 I can think of is rise and tot

[covert flower]

Rezan too but, I've never done a key high enough where I felt like I was ever going to die to it

Not sure how it is like 29-31

[grim pilot]

I tanked it on 28 tyra and if you get external when you dont have sw its really not bad

Or if youre dwarf/have rageheart

[waxen frigate]

Melees are the bulk of it but yeah they aren’t rough because most of your kit mitigates them. That’s the core of tanking

Especially as prot warrior

[lime parcel]

That's what I mean by melees not being the rough part, because we're so good at handling that

[waxen frigate]

But it would be much rougher if you weren’t built around that

Is my point lol

If you were on a tank that were super resilient to bleeds but super squishy to melee, you’d have a very bad time

[ember tangle]

like dks

[waxen frigate]

In what way are DKs that

DKs rely heavily on parry and self heal, as well as building mastery shield to mitigate up front melees

[chilly brook]

DK isn’t weak to melee

They’re just weak to unpredictable damage

They don’t die to melee’s in high keys because they can’t do anything about it, they die to them because with how they’re built to handle incoming damage, weird desyncs in damage events can instantly gib them

[ember tangle]

i meant dks are weaker to melee but stronger against bleeds and dots

[chilly brook]

They’re not really weak to anything tbh

Their mitigation is the same strength all around, and it only gets better the harder they get hit

[median tulip]

I've seen a DK just explode on the wickerman boss in WCM to a crush attack that I would just have laughed at whilst in battle stance.

DKs have real issues with "oops I didn't parry that tank buster" moments

[chilly brook]

Shoulda just cleared stacks

[median tulip]

Clearing stacks is for cowards

(or people who actually take damage)

[grim pilot]

And ive seen bdk tank boss to 90 stacks on 29 or 30 tyrannical

Warrior wouldn’t be able to do that

Maybe with really heavy babysitting from healer

In st encounters bdk really shouldn’t die

In aoe its a bit rougher

[wind oak]

are you implying you didnt see any good Prot war ?

[grim pilot]

I dont have a mirror

So yes

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1171395617839382559.gif?size=96&quality=lossless

[wind oak]

the ego on this man

[grim pilot]

Hahahah

Nah I suck

[wind oak]

[grim pilot]

Genuinely

I feel like

Im pretty mid pwar

Idk

But pwar is easy to do decent stuff at

Just keep shield block and spam ip

[covert flower]

It was 95 stacks 31 Tyrannical pretty sure

Itamae posted the log

Was 650k hps from the DK

With like 400k of it actually being blood shield

[median tulip]

It''s possible that the DK in question fucked up

But the point remains

Even if I fuck up, that boss doesn't actually have a chance of killing me

[grim pilot]

depends what you classify as fucking up

losing your shield block uptime

or turning your back because you started running to fire

you can get globalled

[pallid quiver]

or getting clipped in the back because you went to charge at thorns to help take them down faster but did it at both the wrong timing and wrong angle

definitely hasn't happened to me

[grim pilot]

if you charge at the thorns

it's already bad

everyone should be at the boss

[plush tendon]

The DK in question who died to Tree boss in WM prob screwed up their RP econ which resulted in them not being able to death strike after a big melee hit and then dying to the next one

One issue with DK tanking is that, unlike something like prot war, if you screw something up it bites you in the ass 10 seconds down the line instead of instatly

[cerulean tusk]

BDK cant just eat all the stacks like a warrior can, they will reach the point of the autos and buster killing them.

Warrior can just /ignore tho

[plush tendon]

as long as a DK death strikes after each melee, they will have a blood shield big enough to survive the next one

its very predictable big melee hits

[pallid quiver]

it's always bad in pug town

[cerulean tusk]

The point being, they will get oneshot in the end. Warrior wont reach that point - before BDK is dead 10x over

[pallid quiver]

I haven't really done M+ since Week 2, but I still haven't ever cleared a WCM on a +20

[cerulean tusk]

WCM is free

[pallid quiver]

bold of you to assume i have enough DPS to solo a +20 in time

because holy hell on week 2, witches were a hard roadblock for party survival

i was hella vibing

but everyone else just kept dying, constantly

[cerulean tusk]

Witches are only scary if your healer is shit; or ppl dont bunnyhop

[plush tendon]

the biggest roadblock in WCM right now is tree and its not the tank you have to worry about

thorns are a big problem still even with the nerf

[pallid quiver]

Agree, Kitty

[cerulean tusk]

... thorns is just so extremely unfun.

[plush tendon]

anything that warrents dps running outside to put on a PVP trinket

[pallid quiver]

Though I'd also add in absolutely hating your defensive buttons makes it hard, too

[plush tendon]

is inherently a shit mechanic

especially since mages can blink out of every single one

which is kind of disgusting

[cerulean tusk]

At a 20 level? Dont think ppl need to press buttons other than the healer, really. Ofc, it is easier if they do, but far from a requirment

(and yes, thorns suck)

[pallid quiver]

if the healer don't wanna heal so good, you gotta help yourself somehow

[cerulean tusk]

No, you turn around and walk out

[pallid quiver]

Unfortunately, every group I was in there refused to do so

[cerulean tusk]

go again

[pallid quiver]

I just opted to stop playing after a while; I did what I wanted and was content

[cerulean tusk]

As a DPS, I am there in a 20 to chew bubblegum and top the DPS meters. And I got no meter.

[pallid quiver]

I have no dire need to go again, no matter what everyone tells me I do

I play if I wanna

[cerulean tusk]

Get the 20 done, for the portal?

[pallid quiver]

I don't really care for portals

[cerulean tusk]

[pallid quiver]

I've got a few this season that I got week 1 or 2

but I don't have a dire need for them for any reason

The only ones I even care about are my Pandaland challenge mode ones because I like MoP

[cerulean tusk]

What if you ever need to go to WCM after this expansion, huh?

You gotta fly!

Like a peasant!

[pallid quiver]

i can dragonride there and have fun going there

since i like optimizing speed and routes with dragonflying

Using flap up to have longer duration go fast cathartic

[cerulean tusk]

Optimizing speed and routes... would be clicking the one button, 1.5sec cast, instant travel.

Also, you can not enjoy tanking WCM as warrior

It is the dung to tank, as you can go ham at will, with no risk to yourself - it is fun

Oh wait... sanguine week

nvm

[fresh ruin]

i have a quick question about stats

wowhead says to go for haste then crit...

is this for a dps focused build, or survivability?

i just started my warrior and have a LONG ways to go for gearing, so i think right now i need to focus on surviving Mythic + keys, rather than doing more dps in them.

[jagged pier]

because for m+ crit is more damage reduction than vers

as crit gives parry

and that stops far more damage over a key than other stats

that being said stats arent as important as ilvl and not generally that high of a prio if u like vers over crit u can run it

[fresh ruin]

ah

[fresh ruin]

another silly war question.,

trying to clean up my bars, i put all the abilities on it, and i have like 20+ abilities to click..

is there a core set i should be using, or any abilities that i DONT need to have on my bars? (like rend? or whirlwind or some such?)

[pallid quiver]

Don't need rend, whirlwind, or slam

Those are entirely irrelevant to our kit (Except rend, but that's auto-applied with thunderclap) and are remnants from the leveling experience

[cerulean tusk]

If he don't have WW on his bars, how is he gonna hit the mobs behind him

[jagged pier]

[lime parcel]

Things brings another question to mind, are you keybinding your abilities or clicking them?

[cinder marsh]

on a scale to 1-10 how good is the frostfire belt with the right stuff on it for m+

[warm plinth]

There's no right stuff about it

Frostfire belt is not customizable

[cinder marsh]

yes there is, you can pick the embelishmetns on it, i thought

and what ilvl you want it

[warm plinth]

Ilevel yes, that's it

[cinder marsh]

oh wait

i see

[warm plinth]

Frostfire belt is an embellishment in itself

[cinder marsh]

so then it would be bad for m+?

cause theres no way im getting that belt from raid

[warm plinth]

It's fine; think it comes out around the same as shadowflame patch but you can't pick the stats and belt is a higher stat budget than cloak/wrist

[cinder marsh]

ok

[warm plinth]

which means the lower ilevel hurts more

[fresh ruin]

sorry i had to head out earlier.. im not sure if earlier it was in jest to take WW off my bar, or if that was actually not needed

i would be more than happy to remove it from my bar if it is not used as prot

my bars are too busy as is

[jagged gust]

no, WW is not part of your rotation, ever

WW is Revenge's little brother who was given the game controller that isn't actually plugged in

[fresh ruin]

k

ty

just trying to clean my bars up

this is what i have so far

(for raid)

trying to see what i need to "get rid of"

Mythic + is mostdly the same

but i replace shield charge with the aoe stun thingie

[jagged gust]

shockwave?

Shield charge is pivotal to your rotation I hope you're still using it at least

[fresh ruin]

right, shockwave

when i pulled the M+ talents from wowhead they didnt have shieldcharge (unless i missed it?)

[jagged gust]

I can guarantee you that regardless of content you should have charge specced with both capstone talents

[fresh ruin]

apparently it is on there

i just missed it in the bars

anything else i need to dump though other than fixing that?

[jagged gust]

in raid hamstring is gonna be useless, and frankly only has 1 real application in m+

your stances can be turned into a single button macro

[fresh ruin]

mostly have it there cause its also on my M+ bars, so keeping it "similar" as best i can

so think of that as M+ instead =p

(other than missing thunderclap, which i will fix later)

[jagged gust]

ah yeah, the only thing that really changes between raid and m+ is intim shout shockwave and stormbolt

Good to keep things regular i agree

Technically if you're lazy you can macro avatar into something like SS, though you will eventually accidentally pop avatar 1 second before an intermission or just as a pack dies like this so it will be a DPS loss

I actually still haven't changed my S2 macros and Last Stand is still macro'd into shield slam lol

[fresh ruin]

sorry, been a while... what is SS again

[jagged gust]

shield slam

[fresh ruin]

ah

[jagged gust]

Like it's a bad idea in general if you wanna be exceptional

[fresh ruin]

k

[jagged gust]

But if you just want as few buttons as possible, prot has a lot of lazy macros

[fresh ruin]

i want a to find a balance =p

trying to be easyish to remember, without having to click 500 things

[jagged gust]

With shift/alt modifiers you can keep everything down to a dozen or so physical buttons

But it's the nature of being a tank needing 20-30 buttons to press for any given situation

[fresh ruin]

pally tank seems a little easier =p

and druid mkore so lol

but neither can be foxes

[jagged gust]

Prot war is incredibly simplistic overall, might just be a new learning curve for you

[fresh ruin]

so far im testing between prot war and pally for main alt next season (using evoker aug as main)

so trying to sort out the two

[jagged gust]

Not to sound like a traitor but if you're still on the fence pally shits on war in pretty much all regards

[fresh ruin]

the bonus warrior has.. is it can be a fox

[jagged gust]

Oh I completely understand, my GM just bought a foxy level boost for the same reason lmao

[cerulean tusk]

Morning prot is basically night PvP

[fresh ruin]

i dont really do pvp

[strong forum]

Pwar is alot tankier than paladin

And alot easier to play

[brittle owl]

why not

play both

shield supremacy

[ruby berry]

And you don't have to be a pseudo healer in keys as warrior. Most of the time in keys on a pally you're attempting to mitigate others mistakes with your toolkit. Warrior is just slam, maybe a cheeky rally or intervene.

[median tulip]

I haven't spec'd Intervene since shadowlands

Bring back Safeguard

[blazing condor]

bring back intercept

[ruby berry]

Yeah exactly

[warm plinth]

:think:

[dark barn]

Full 487 prot here. Im thinking in use my first dinar in the Absorb Damage Ring cause is a powerful free bonus. Do you guys agree?

[warm plinth]

No

The absorb ring is completely needless

[dark barn]

Oh. I thought was good. Saw a brewmaster doing a lot of heal with it

[blazing condor]

Best things to pick off early is trinkets or gholak id assume

At least fyrakk trinkets are still gonna be hard to get

[warm plinth]

Gholak for sure. Rageheart will still be amazing. All-totem is great

[dark barn]

Gholak seems a huge upgrade. Mine is 483 dont have CE lol

[warm plinth]

If you're going for one of the cantrip rings then you'd want the seal of diurna's chosen

[dark barn]

Just to confirm. Shadowflame proc both rings? (Shadowflame embelishments will be bis)

[hardy snow]

you cant have it on jewelery

so it will probably stay on back and wrist, unless some jewelery embelish will become stronger due to tuning

[dark barn]

Sorry if i was confusing, i want to know if shadowflame damage proc the vault rings

Is fire damage?

[hardy snow]

ahh sorry, misread that 😄 yes, shadowflame proc Vault rings

[dark barn]

Will be OP

[hardy snow]

same does gholak proc, helm enchant, some trinkets like augur or rageheart etc.

[warm plinth]

Gholak and Fyrakk would also proc it

and the helm enchant

As I say exactly what Jawor said 🤦‍♂️

[dark barn]

Prot warrior will be near immortal in mythic raiding with all these items plus rageheart. Dont know about others tanks

[hardy snow]

yea, immortal, and then DoT from experiments or other shit comes

[warm plinth]

But yeah, anything that is even partially fire damage will still proc it, including combination damage types (which is why frostfire belt works, since it is both frost and fire)

Yeah don't forget, we've got Zskarn and Experiments coming back

[hardy snow]

experiments with nerfed mass dispel*

that can be interesting

[cerulean tusk]

Just bring more priests

[dark barn]

I was able to survive experiments with Neltharion trinket. Was hard but possible. My core killed it. With rageheart matrix of uldaman and other things will be piece of cake

[hardy snow]

I dont get why some DoTs, that acts as "tankbuster" isnt blockable with spellblock, especially that some of such DoTs are, like Sarkareth, Magmorax, Fyrak, Igira and some others

[warm plinth]

Generally, the ones that are spell blockable are because Warrior couldn't do the fight if it wasn't.

[jagged pier]

sark was

and i think mag got changed to be 🤷

igaras is a bleed so that makes sense

can also be removed with dwarf

[hardy snow]

yea, bosses Ive mentioned have blockable dot

acording to Sense's sheet

[warm plinth]

You're a sheet

gottem

[hardy snow]

Resonator doesnt look like much useful for us, once per 1.5min you will get 1m of IP at max ilvl, at that lvl it will be like 3 IP uses

[warm plinth]

It's better for us than other tanks, realistically

[hardy snow]

yea, we will far less drop below 75%, which is quite high for such trinket

[warm plinth]

At least from a damage perspective

We're more likely to get the full 15 seconds of damage

That being said, it also depends if IP gets consumed first or the trinket

I think IP is generally last

[hardy snow]

Granyth is more like an additional CD button for some tankbusters

[hardy snow]

I dont know if depends on trinkets, but for rageheart it first takes IP

[warm plinth]

Yeah but this is not a full absorb is the thing

If it triggers prior to the damage hitting IP, then it would just make IP last longer, not the trinket

(potentially last longer, I should say)

[dusk sphinx]

How critical are the 2x armor patch craftings?
Personally i got the claok and boots but i got the option to upgrade whats listed as BiS cloak on wowhead.

[cerulean tusk]

Not critical at all, just neat to have

[warm plinth]

Cloak is an incredibly low stat budget item. Losing 3 ilevel to gain the embellishment is 100% worth it.

[dusk sphinx]

ah cool, so i guess i could recraft cloak as high as possible and swap out boots as soon as i got the BiS version or would it be better go get 2x embellishments?

[warm plinth]

Generally we recommend putting embellishments on cloak and bracers

As they are the two lowest stat budget items

[cerulean tusk]

You always want two embellishments active

[dusk sphinx]

ah cool, i was just confused for a bit since i saw a lot of prot's only using 1 or none and if it was used it was cloak 😄

[cerulean tusk]

Why would they not use allied wrist for free stats, kind of weird. If you didn't want that, lariat or shield neck got to be better than the 3 Ilvl on that slot

[dusk sphinx]

Thats what confused me, i mean, i'm not that huge rn, currently preparing for S4 but i'm in the situation of being lucky with gear got shitty 450 shield tho

[cerulean tusk]

Craft a shield to be your till you get a mythic one, biggest upgrade you can get

[dusk sphinx]

aye good idea! thanks Kitty!

[dark barn]

Isnt Sarkareth cloak better?

[jagged pier]

no

sark cloak honestly bait

well sim bait

hardly procs

[blazing condor]

I thought Sark bait was the dude in freehold

[warm plinth]

kek

[strong forum]

Sark cloak on average procs once every 2 minutes

And any dmg > 0 dmg

So it obv Sims better

But the opportunity cost isn't worth for a tank

[jagged pier]

2% uptime baby

[strong forum]

https://tenor.com/view/you-wo-joker-joaqu-gif-23924191

[weary forge]

hows prot looking s4? same old plain old?

[shut summit]

fine but not vdh (for m+)

[ruby berry]

Seasonal affix: everyone gets 2 charges of sigils.

[cerulean tusk]

As long all casts are aimed, blockable, physical and aimed only at tank - we are ace

[blazing condor]

sigil of flame

[strong forum]

prot is next season the same as current season

except the dungeon pool is just worse

and more vdh favoured

[jagged pier]

[cerulean tusk]

Nah, we gonna get tuned so we are meta, dont worry - double the dam and 99% dam reduction in dstance, trust

[shut summit]

the difference would be that if that happened we would get nerfed

[cerulean tusk]

Warrior is meta? Forums are burning, subscriber numbers are plummeting, reality starts tearing.

Good thing they are quick to nip us in the but, and with a chainsaw at that.

[waxen frigate]

@lusty tiger im gonna nut

[toxic pewter]

i saw foo fighters live one time

[lusty tiger]

😻

[real thunder]

Someone asked the question earlier but i didn't see the answer. How does our DR, IP and trinket work in terms of what gets applied first.
So if we get hit for 600k with SW up, IP and an absorb trinket....what takes effect 1st, 2nd, 3rd? Thanks for the info.

[strong forum]

DRs are all multiplicative so the order doesnt matter

and for absorbs it all depends which one it is which one gets consumed first

[real thunder]

thanks.

[blazing condor]

now i finally get to relive the feeling of doing it on drums as a kid on guitar hero

but on fortnite drums

[warm plinth]

I have rock band drums in my closet rn let's go

[pallid quiver]

LET'S GO!? LET'S FIGHT!?

[waxen frigate]

https://tenor.com/view/drum-drums-drumming-drummer-milesteller-gif-5028605

Way ahead of you

[safe token]

hey guys, new prot war here what items should i craft first?

[stray gazelle]

Get your 2 embellishment cloak wrist or waist then rings for socket then anything after

[hardy snow]

Craft shield if you can craft at higher ilvl and you dont have one on mythic track yet

[pallid quiver]

Honestly, I'd wait to craft anything until next season to save the money, but

But ueah, shield is generally to go to if it'll give you an increase in ilvl

Embells will (in seasons proper) go unreplaced the entire time,

Weapon's the next thing to look into upgrading if you haven't gotten a good one

[weak spindle]

You guys should look into clone her for pc. Shit had drums on it recently

[trim wind]

What to play between Disrupting Shout or Battering Ram? Opinions?

[jagged pier]

what ever else is on that row

dropping ram for it is inting

[trim wind]

inting=intentionally losing? Not familiar with the term. 🙂 In what regards?

So I should replace something else to be able to play DS in e.g Mythic+?

[jagged pier]

as i said u swap it with something in this row

if u want

[brittle moon]

Do you think prot is getting good in s4 again?

[jagged pier]

it still is

[topaz field]

nothing has changed/will change every tank is pretty good but the general conception of the community within the last years has shifted to "there is only 1 meta comp and we have to copy"

[jagged pier]

its just not vdh

[topaz field]

this is why u will see SP f mage and augvoker

for 3rd season in a row

[brittle moon]

Sorry, i mean better

[topaz field]

in every single high key

[jagged pier]

well it will be the same the dungeons favour vdh even more next season

we are the best we've been this season

[topaz field]

why should they?

[jagged pier]

because we've only had buffs

[topaz field]

i dont think that dungeons are vdh favoured

[jagged pier]

since season 1

[topaz field]

apart from halls probably

[brittle moon]

Thats why most people also voted s3 bonus for next season?

[jagged pier]

i mean its our best set

[plush tendon]

every tank is good enough to do title level keys, but there is a very clear meta with VDH

no reason to swap unless small % increases make or break your prog

S4 should be better for prot war I think though

some real cancer dungeons this season (looking at you throne!)

and some nice spell reflect stonks

but I think the dps favored are gonna be casters again, so VDH does gain stonks

[grizzled nova]

VDH is favored in any dungeon that requires stops and interrupts.

Which is all of them.

[shut summit]

also favored in any dungeon where you need to do damage or mitigate damage

[grizzled nova]

Unless and until blizzard stop smoking crack and nerfs illuminated sigils, or just decides to give all the tanks 7 aoe stops, vdh will remain meta.

[shut summit]

we doomed anyways, gettin talent shuffle early in expac means we just get nerfed anyways in start of season

real secret is to get rework mid season/xpac cuz then it stays that way

[grizzled nova]

Apparently

[shut summit]

https://i.imgur.com/6qD15Mv.png

[grizzled nova]

I don't really care that vdh had a banger season after a rework, that's nice and all

But leaving them untouched going into s4 is wild

[shut summit]

[plush tendon]

Hopes for War Within

afterall, we got a hero talent that gives us 5% size

[blazing condor]

I already have that on an avatar glyph

Or maybe thats baseline

[ionic fern]

Just means we're in the perfect state.

[shut summit]

[warm plinth]

@strong forum am I good now?

atal'dazar

[strong forum]

Eh

[warm plinth]

😢

[strong forum]

My best active log dps is 186k

So ig 145k is aight

[dusky comet]

while u guys are talking about this

how does m+ log work

why is dps lower at the end

[strong forum]

Cuz it counts downtime

From start to finish

[dusky comet]

so if u chain pull more ur log will be higher

[strong forum]

That's from a 22 I did this week

[urban portal]

log damage is fake

is dps while active close to details

[strong forum]

Yes

[dusky comet]

ah. okay

[strong forum]

Log dmg is the most accurate there is

If you check active dps

[dusky comet]

and the parse % is from that key at that level? or any key at that level

[strong forum]

Key% is for that keylevel

Parse% is how high the keylevel is compared to all keylevels done, it has nothing to do with dmg

[forest pollen]

Is there a WA for notifying you of blocked spells? Like how reflect WA works

[strong forum]

For example that 100 there in key% means I did r1 dmg for a 22 atal as pwar

[dusky comet]

okay. so we only look at active DPS and key%

the rest is useless

[strong forum]

Yeah

Exactly

[dusky comet]

thanks

[strong forum]

The parse% is just compared to all pwar keys done, this 22 is in the 90th%

Has nothing to do with performance

[urban portal]

even key% kinda dicks

[pallid quiver]

They're all poopoo if your logs have just ben auto closing on you in M+ without any known changes to addons on your own end. cba to fix it atm smh

[lilac bloom]

OMG the spline hurts like hell https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/a:jXp4z9tgVR6YMHyx#fight=last&view=replay

[chilly brook]

That's depressing

almost as many nerfs as buffs

[pallid quiver]

To be fair, the nerfs were mostly negligible as a whole

Like, one set was literally almost entirely cosmetic and made because Prot War was so popular, they wanted people to play other tanks

[ionic fern]

Give us more damage.

😦

Or and take away DH's 100000000000000000 sigils.

[brittle moon]

What do we think about the moutain thane and the colossus tree? And what sounds for you better? I personally preffer the mountain thane tree sounds pretty well and especially passive. I will not have more buttons to press

[ionic fern]

Realistically speaking, as it stands, seems like Colossus is the "winner".
Theme wise, i also enjoy Mountain Thane better.
It's not even Alpha yet, so changes are obviously still coming. 🙂

[pallid quiver]

I thematically like Mountain Thane, but Colossus 5% size increase is pretty stonks

[deft hinge]

i tried knockback fear this week and i noticed sometimes enemies didnt get knockback, only got feared. the resto druid im going with also had knockback. is there a DR on knockback?

[deft hinge]

will earthquaker, shockwave knocks enemies up in air be a go to skill for m+?

[ionic fern]

Yes.

I'd hope they switch it for Aftershock type of utility

Where it continuously knocks targets down in specific area.

[cunning inlet]

Thunderous Words - The tool tip says 15% boost to bleed effects at all times. Does that apply to things like rend ? Ty

[jagged pier]

yes.

[cunning inlet]

tyty

[jagged pier]

yes it literally in the text it knockbacks all enemies except the primary one

which will cause that target to cower in fear for 15 secs

[deft hinge]

what i meant was everyone got feared and no1 got knockbacked

nvm, i wrote it correct. it was u who missunderstood ;p

[blazing condor]

id imagine theres a DR on knockbacks

since its a form of CC

[jagged pier]

i think its 3 might be 2

mobs should have been fine if it was just typhoon and menace being used