protection

[lusty grotto]

but obviously hes not going the right way about it lol

[fallow nova]

If you feel coerced by piratey transmog but won't engage in piratey activities, then you're a poser and deserve to stew in your FOMO lol

[lusty grotto]

[urban portal]

“Consented”

lol

[fallow nova]

Peak goof

[warm plinth]

Amen

[high aspen]

literally look up the definition of battle royale

boomers are in shambles now i guess

[cerulean tusk]

I am enjoying myself, being a pirate

[hardy snow]

if you dont like battle royale, just dont play it, problem solved

[fallow nova]

If you don't like literally anything, just claim it as an injustice because you never consented to existing in the first place

Life hax

The invisibility bank confuses me, because most of the time I'm very much not invisible when I use it

This game is quickly becoming "drop next to two other people who get fire whirl and die before you can complete your quest"

Like, fourth game of that in a row lol

[lusty grotto]

first time playing BRs?

[warm plinth]

Invisibility bank?

[compact palm]

Blink

I assume

[strong forum]

"i did not consent to this"

"fomo"

how did this guy make it this far in life

[hazy bronze]

I ask myself that often

[fallow nova]

I do sometimes wonder how these people function, but based on some of the posts I've seen on that forum, a lot of them, uh.... don't. They just live off [whoever] and sit on the internet all day.

[cobalt parcel]

Checkout my World of Warcraft gameplay recorded with Insights.gg
https://insights.gg/v/3j1JArdarT9mvmR2sCybuj

[quartz cape]

Is there something special I am supposed to do to see the transmogs

[urban portal]

checkout my world of warcraft gameplay recorded with insights.gg

[waxen quarry]

checkout my world of warcraft gameplay recorded with insights.gg

[tacit gorge]

Hey, ist Leech worth using a 476ilvl trinket over the same trinket on 483?

[jagged pier]

are they the same trinket?

oh i cant read

they are

then no

we dont really care about tertiarys

[dusky canopy]

Firestorm Andy

xD

[jagged pier]

how many more?

[dusky canopy]

Just started the all day grind

i hit 17 with that game

[jagged pier]

ah fair

im just happy mines over

not happy there about the silver cutlass being a 2 hander, and they give a tone of 1 hand weps but no shield tmog

[dusky canopy]

Back 2 back!

[dusky canopy]

I havent looked into the appearances to much

ive just been checking out the ones I unlock as I get them

[jagged pier]

could have updated this

the bfa ones are ok

[dusky canopy]

that one goes pretty good

[uneven trench]

Literally the shield I use already bc my warrior mog has been pirate themed forever (I am so happy for the event rewards I finally get my pirate mount for Dragon riding)

[warm plinth]

You're at 40 already? Tf

[jagged pier]

yer it take no time at all

like a day

so like 8-12 hours

[warm plinth]

I've played that long probably and I'm at 13

[jagged pier]

[thorny stone]

KEKW

[dusky canopy]

its easily 1k+ per game if you do the captains orders and focus on leveling instead of pvp

if youre good at the pvp part its even faster

over 2k per win at level 10

[jagged pier]

honestly u dont need to be good and pvp to be good at this pvp

[dusky canopy]

I agree

just learn to counter what people have

[jagged pier]

which is basically what u ahve to do to tank

[warm plinth]

My average is probably like 500some per game

[dusky canopy]

After the buffs?

[warm plinth]

I've had a couple of good ones that were 1500+

Yeah

[jagged pier]

youll get there ghash as long as your enjoying it then its fine

[blazing condor]

its all about having fun

[quartz cape]

I get around 500 per game or wipe immediately, Just do the quest and then either go hunting for chests or go find the pieces of hate.. loads of ppl will be there but there is good plunder and you can have a fun fight

[viscid lake]

Is battle stance still default? Or is def the Way to go?

[sullen gust]

Aways sit in battle stance. Def stance is like a cooldown you can use all the time when you need it. Flip into it when it's absolutely necessary otherwise just take the extra damage from battle stance

[viscid lake]

Ah damn i always in def, but i see now 😅😂

Is there an easy macro for stamce Dance ?

[sullen gust]

There deffo is, id look in the macro channel. Id send mine but am not at my PC rn

Tell a lie, just look at the pins here mate

[viscid lake]

Cheers😂

[pallid quiver]

No

Fun banned

someone get me the sonic comic robot planting the sign that says no fun allowed

[blazing condor]

https://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_losq5xNeGn1qensylo1_500.jpg

[hardy snow]

there is one in pins

[grave wedge]

is there any kind of rank list for season 4 yet, next is season 4 right

havent played retail in a while trying to look ahead as i think this seasons almost over?

[pallid quiver]

floof dog best

Thanks for the assist, boss

[pallid quiver]

If you mean like a tier list, no, but it'll probably still be similar to now since there's not really major changes

[grave wedge]

coool just coming back to this toon so doing low keys so far, 443 ivl i dont feel like im handicaped so ill take it

[pallid quiver]

In terms of like, viability, tanks this entire xpac have all been very strong; choice of tank won't really limit your ability to do anything other than at the most absolute fringe (#1 in world M+ keys kinda level)

You can easily chill all the way to like 24s, 25s, then you gotta start trying harder

[grim pilot]

only thing is

pugging is gonna be harder

as off meta

[torn gulch]

that is so true
getting into 25+ keys this season was absolute pain

in pugs

[lime parcel]

The real enemy is always community perception

[warm plinth]

@jagged pier I almost won

[jagged gust]

My best so far is a third with 2400 points, pretty proud of that when I can't land an auto to save my life

[jagged pier]

[blazing condor]

interesting how long it took for wow to get a BR considering how huge BRs were back in the day

but at the same time: it took so long to get one that they're riding a second wave now

[fallow nova]

Blizz has a long history of observing gaming trends, working on their own version, then sending it like 10 years later.

[cerulean tusk]

To me it seems it was more a: ok what could be fun to try fix within this game engine? BR? Sure, let's give it a go.
If that is the case, then WoW might actually have a bright future.
If it was: BR are popular, we need to draw in kids to earn money. Push one out.
Then well... yeah....

[dusky canopy]

Ayyye so close ghash! you'll get one!

[gloomy vortex]

so how we feeling about prot warr in the DF dungeons for Season 4? Uldaman screws us I know but can't remember about the rest.

[dusky canopy]

warrior is great

some bleed tank debuffs but manageable

[gloomy vortex]

Oh yes maybe changing to dwarf is best

[dusky canopy]

It is nice to have but not required

[hardy snow]

I personally don't worry at all for S4, because I've already got portals in S1/S2, so I can just stay at +18 +8 for vault and at this lvl keys are easy

[lusty grotto]

what is going on with the services channel being reenabled every single fucking time i log into wow

its aids in illidan jesus christ

log on an alt, they are enabled

disable them

log on main then they are magically enabled again

disabling them once again

[jagged pier]

welcome to a new patch

[lusty grotto]

rinse and repeat, the fuck is going on

[cinder marsh]

hey if im not that rich to buy the grand banquet of kalu ek then what is the next best feast in line?

[lusty grotto]

none

[jagged pier]

just buy the fortune cards

[lusty grotto]

buy deviled eggs for yourself

or fortune cards yea

fated fortune cookie or Deviously deviled eggs

which arent feasts

feasts arent that expensive anyway

126g each atm, i mean that's kinda cheap

well, at least in NA

[dusky canopy]

Considering we were paying 800 each for flasks at one point

126 is cheap

xD

[blazing condor]

can you still not do fortune cookies in m+?

cus it gives you an item

[jagged pier]

eat it at the start and the embleishent keeps it on all key

🤷

[lusty grotto]

yeah

if you have an alt without the thingie

just use deviled eggs

[warm plinth]

Use eggs anyway. They're cheaper.

[lusty grotto]

true and real

[dusky canopy]

I think its time to start going for a smackeral win

xD

[lusty grotto]

brew a real menace

[dusky canopy]

LOL

Dont worry I get totally schooled sometimes

[warm plinth]

Go for a win with no holy shield

[dusky canopy]

it all depends on what abilities you have vs your opponent sometimes you are just out matched

holy shield is the ultimite poke

i go for it every game

[warm plinth]

Poke?

[dusky canopy]

going to make it harder for myself I think and do full melee

smackeral/axe/iceslow

[warm plinth]

Searing axe is actually savage. Just can be hard to land

[dusky canopy]

the fact that it interrupts makes it so good!

[warm plinth]

Yeah

[dusky canopy]

Small damage from range

"poke"

[warm plinth]

Ah

[lusty grotto]

is yogi back yet

[warm plinth]

Is he gone?

[lusty grotto]

ya

#protection message last message

[jagged pier]

he realised ppl werent biting anymore

cause hes done the cycle with everyone

[lusty grotto]

i dont think he's that aware

hes an odd one for sure, but i miss him already

):

[blazing condor]

[lusty grotto]

i wonder how long it'll be until hes back

[blazing condor]

im p sure he's like the girl in 50 first dates

there comes a day where his brain just resets to previous checkpoint

and it starts all over again

[lusty grotto]

lol

maybe he found another class discord to post his obscure old games on

or his doom stuff

[blazing condor]

skyhold 2

[lusty grotto]

lol

[shut summit]

dont say his name 3 times or he'll be back

[lusty grotto]

[blazing condor]

[dusky canopy]

LMAO

I saw a plunderer with that name

might be plundering

[lusty grotto]

could be

his dad asmongold likes the game, i think

[dusky canopy]

@warm plinth

GOT ONE

😄

Smackeral chad

xD

[warm plinth]

pog

Meanwhile I was 44th in my first run of the day

[dusky canopy]

< 3

[warm plinth]

tfw you get jumped by the guy who got r3 fire whirl immediately

I got storm archon

[dusky canopy]

Yeah sometimes the spawn rng is rough

[warm plinth]

Storm Archon is legit garbage tbh

[dusky canopy]

I kinda like it early game

but yeah late game its bad

[warm plinth]

@dusky canopy nuuuu

[blazing cradle]

is council tank trinket bugged somehow? i did 2 dungeons and it never procs, and on the tank dummy too.

[warm plinth]

Do you have logs? Dummies are not an effective test of trinkets

There's a lot of random shit that just doesn't work on dummies

[blazing cradle]

this was last key

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/CXN46hKaP7YpTQW2 just a 19 fall with my alt

[shut summit]

ye its bugged

[blazing cradle]

i only have pip as other trinket, shouldi play with that instead?

[shut summit]

compared to a trinket that does nothing? yea prolly

[blazing cradle]

xD and i farmed for that too today

[warm plinth]

Can you clarify which trinket you're talking about? That log doesn't show your gear

[shut summit]

ursine

[warm plinth]

ah

[jagged pier]

Next one for sure

[dusky canopy]

Holy! my buddy and I almost got 4k last game!

[dusky canopy]

So close homie! you got it soon

[lusty grotto]

wat

what a guy

bigotted af against plundies and rag players jesus

[warm plinth]

LOL

[lusty grotto]

report advertisement into report message

☑️

[warm plinth]

ezpz

[lusty grotto]

lol

im farming declines

doing good, stash almost full

[jagged pier]

And someone was arguing with me yesterday that plunderstorm was where the most toxic behaviour was

[lusty grotto]

did ok this morning at least, i guess VDHs woke up

lol jakey wth

[jagged pier]

Scroll up in tmog if u want popcorn

[lusty grotto]

jesus fuck

its like that person the other day in here

they are seriously affected by FOMO

as if those cosmetics wont show up on the trading post recolored eventually

jesus

[jagged pier]

I mean number 1 they already have datamined recolours

[lusty grotto]

how are you gonna grind to max renown and complain about it

when you literally put in a number in blizzard's counting that you played it extensively

and then be like "oh i hope they dont do it again", well they will cause its popular

[jagged pier]

And number 2 as i said, its your choice to colect it

[lusty grotto]

yea fr

[jagged pier]

Yer i dunno was like talking to a wall

[lusty grotto]

so weird lmao

[jagged pier]

And all my point was plunderstorm wasnt bad.

As a gamemode but not have toxic players make it bad

Buddeh u play retail or classic they fucking everywhere

Didnt even explain what toxic behaviour he had seen. Cause ive seen like none

And if he means someone comes and snipes when u low thats just the BRs in general

🤷

[lusty grotto]

PvE doesn't reward playing like a dirtbag or shitting on other people. PvP does, so not it's not. There are toxic people in PvE, I never claimed it didn't, but PvP is infinitely worse

this is so weird to me

what a take

apparently this person has never ever set foot inside a key

[jagged pier]

Bad takes are bad

[lusty grotto]

or in pug raids

[warm plinth]

I haven't experienced any toxicity in plunderstorm and I've played for hours every day since it came out

[jagged pier]

^^

[lusty grotto]

how do you even have toxicity in it

every streamer ive watched has 0 chat

[warm plinth]

WEll, you can talk in there

But no one does

[lusty grotto]

oh right they block it

[warm plinth]

I talked once to a level 8 that me and my level 3 friend were hiding

[lusty grotto]

i forgot lmaoooo

[warm plinth]

with

[lusty grotto]

xD

idk i find BRs proximity chat fucking hilarious tbh

[warm plinth]

Our talking was literally

"shhh" while we hid at the top of a tower

[lusty grotto]

but i know plunderstorm doesnt have that

[warm plinth]

I guess the text-based is proximity-based

but yeah

You can only use say/yell which are both distance limited iirc

[lusty grotto]

yeah idk what does it matter if someone says words on the internet on a game mode you shouldn't be focusing on a chat window to begin with

smh

[warm plinth]

I forgot you even COULD chat until like

yesterday or the day before

[lusty grotto]

if they are hard focusing on the chat window, they are probably just pve farming ig

lol

yeah i couldnt imagine someone just paying attention to it

[warm plinth]

Pretty sure most people saying it's "toxic" just mean they're bad at PvP/don't want to PvP and are getting killed

[lusty grotto]

thats exactly what it is

[jagged pier]

well thats the thing they were complaining about

they wanted world quests etc

[warm plinth]

but yeah idk, even when I'm not actively avoiding PvP, I can go like 5 minutes without seeing someone else

[jagged pier]

like dude just dont be bad or just do the pve stuff

it doesnt matter

[warm plinth]

while I just level up

[jagged pier]

as i said like a few days ago u dont need to be good at pvp to actually be good at plunderstorm

u need to be good mechanically at the game

and like using your brain to see what ppl have and to know how to use your stuff to counter it

but also if your doing it only for the tmog then thats your choice

u dont have to like elite sets which are also a limited timed set

and collectors still do that

🤷

literally no difference

anyway i aint gunna vent anymore

[lusty grotto]

ya agreed

its just wow players are just so conditioned to grind the FOMO

case in point the augment rune

which actually isnt really fomo i guess

[jagged pier]

still renown 13 on that

[lusty grotto]

but they want that grind done asap

[strong forum]

renown 0

ama

[lusty grotto]

me too

i gotta play it sometime but

i aint got no time

[pallid quiver]

What color underpants do you think is most common in Azeroth?

[tired crystal]

Any tips/talent changes for Tind Mythic?

[lusty grotto]

did you go over the sheet

the blockable/reflectable sheet?

as far as talenting goes... id say it will at least give you an idea

[cerulean tusk]

Just let your BDK solotank tindral, and you handle your sets of shrooms with warrior CDs. Ez pz, gg wp.

If you got no BDK, make sure curse/poision and a DK aa slow is on Tindral - to minimize the stackbuildup

[tired crystal]

I do have a BDK co-tank

[cerulean tusk]

Perfect

Ez life for you then

[tired crystal]

Will need to taunt swap stacks tho right?

[cerulean tusk]

Green, red, green, red - woop woop

nah

[lusty grotto]

green red green red and spell block, that it

[oblique garnet]

Maybe once in p3

[tired crystal]

Amazing, ty

[oblique garnet]

On mythic that is

[tired crystal]

Seems to be going well so far with that change

[cerulean tusk]

[tired crystal]

Well, for the first 30 seconds, first time guild prog on this boss, its not fun

[grim pilot]

ask your rl to play melee

it's very fun as melee

[cerulean tusk]

Hf, my guild are 300 wipes in, and barely started to close in on a kill

🫡

[hardy snow]

once in p3, when he have like 9-10

[timber nest]

Once you get to p3 is falls over

[cerulean tusk]

we been in p3 since pull 150

It be the life of going to p3 every 10 pulls. 4/10 being - boom, boom, boom-boom. Healers gonna boom, booming forever, forever gonna boom.

[hardy snow]

first part of progress inst getting to p3, its getting consistent in p1 and p2

[strong forum]

just look at him

[warm plinth]

[pallid quiver]

Ghash putting the polls to work already

[warm plinth]

I felt that it was a worthy question

[pallid quiver]

my question wasn't worthy of a response, tho smh

That's why I'm watching fight game tournaments now

[warm plinth]

what question

[pallid quiver]

Vitally important from the #1 Renown 0 player

[warm plinth]

Not pinging people = no one answers you

[valid sleet]

Better PUG tank to have as second character: pally or DK?

[strong forum]

pally

[waxen frigate]

pala is historically the pug carry tank

[grim pilot]

if you're opting for pug

I would just straight up go vdh for this and next season

if that's a measurement for you

which is like 6months or more of gameplay

[strong forum]

https://i.imgur.com/8NpEXRJ.png

gholak + signet go brrr

[pallid quiver]

hate to see it, he eventually was forced to tank

[strong forum]

i just cba'd getting another tank

that cant soak 1st boss

happened twice today

[pallid quiver]

I saw that at a glance, but I didn't really comprehend it

[strong forum]

or well, the bear jsut got 1shot by chronoshear afterwards

[pallid quiver]

I was busy loosing my mind at a fight game tournament

[grim pilot]

idk its ass if you've got lots of mobs on you as pwar, I dont wanna risk getting meleed in the back

[strong forum]

i was the only one soaking

:hehe:

nobody even TRIED

[grim pilot]

whole boss fight?

[strong forum]

yeah

[grim pilot]

I almost depleted

[strong forum]

i was the only one soaking when mobs were up

[grim pilot]

a 27 yday

bc nobody soaked

I had like 10 mobs on me

[strong forum]

ya

i still soaked tho

[grim pilot]

xd

[strong forum]

SW go brr

[grim pilot]

nah I didnt

we finished first area wit hlike

8 mins on the timer

bc we wiped on first boss

[strong forum]

sick

[grim pilot]

not to mention

[strong forum]

we missed 2 chest

[grim pilot]

pug got taken to gap city

wait

[strong forum]

cuz spriest did fuckall ST

[strong forum]

how the fuck

thats ours

i pulled conservatively

[grim pilot]

ret and sham

are premade

with me

sham was on some shitty alt

hes a good player in general

[strong forum]

how did the ret do 410k xdd

[pallid quiver]

Man, makes me feel the urge to play my Enha

but then I'd have to play the game smh

[grim pilot]

because

ret had whole big pull to himself

[strong forum]

ic

[grim pilot]

mage respecced

and enha is

enha

[strong forum]

yea

enha is prio GOD

[grim pilot]

good enha ye

this guy was on shitty alt

hes tank/ret main

[strong forum]

i got a brh27 i wanna 2chest

you got bodies?

[grim pilot]

I'm not busy so

I can help

[pallid quiver]

Get past max number of flame shock targets, just gotta salute the rest of the non-capped DPS as they soar to the heavens as you beat a single mother fucker to death

[grim pilot]

need war dps or dh dps

war dps>dh dps

[strong forum]

whatever

[grim pilot]

but dh dps needs weeklies

[strong forum]

idc

[cerulean tusk]

2h protection DPS warrior, aint it, if ya madlads ever wondered

[strong forum]

colour me almost surprised

[grim pilot]

If feral is above you

Somethings off

[median tulip]

So... thinking ahead to Season 4; Seal of Diurna's Chosen + Cataclysmic Signet Brand + Fyrakk's Tainted Rageheart = BiS?

[lusty grotto]

rageheart no

its nerfed

the damage at least

[median tulip]

boo

[lusty grotto]

it'll be good defensively, but that's it

anvil might be better than signet, we will have to see what the throughput is like

beacon, manic grief, storm-eater, spiteful storm, good contenders

well

if dps is the question

cause storm-eater's and beacon are... you know

can be rough to cast mid fight

[median tulip]

Mmmm

None of the Dungeon trinkets were worth writing home about, if memory serves

[lusty grotto]

decoration of flame too, sorry

dungeon trinkets hmm

only one i remember was whelpling

most of the decent trinkets were from other expansions so they aren't coming back

like whetstone and mark of dargrul

ruby whelp shell and blazebinder's

are pretty much it i think?

dragon games equipment is also decent if you can kick the balls

treemouth is coming back too as a defensive option

also they buffed magmammoth scale

ah yes idol of trampling hooves

[median tulip]

Puzzle Box, Dragon Games Equipment, Franzying Signol Flare, Treemouth's Festering Splinter, Irideus Fragment, Mutated Magmammoth Scale, Blazebinder's Hoof, Ruby Whelp Shell, Burgeoning Seed ( ), Grannyth's Enduring Scale, Idol of Trampling Hooves, Homeland Raid Horn, Inexorable Resonator ( )

[lusty grotto]

so basically both RLP trinkets, Nok's hooves, DGE and treemouth as a defensive option

everything else we will have to see

depending on balancing

inexorable also got "buffed"

[median tulip]

I don't like Blazebinder's Hoof. No Pri.

[lusty grotto]

this is the full list of nerfs and buffs so far

from here https://www.wowhead.com/news/patch-10-2-6-plunderstorm-patch-notes-for-season-4-class-tuning-tier-and-trinket-338114#item3

like we have no idea how inexorable was reworked and shit

[waxen frigate]

we do

item data is available

[median tulip]

That Dreadplate change is interesting

[lusty grotto]

i cant fucking remember what it did originally

[waxen frigate]

basically nothing so not relevant

it's better than it was but still not very good

[lusty grotto]

well thats a 250 ilvl

[waxen frigate]

i know

granyth's looks definitely usable

probably like

rageheart>granyth>splinter

for that genre of trink

[lusty grotto]

kinda weird the dungeon journal has those at 250 but the rest are 437 explorer track

but i guess it makes sense since they were reworked

faceless ire is kind of a contender in that area also

or at least as ghetto sac

enduring dreadplate does seem interesting

[median tulip]

I actually ran that for a while in Season 1

[lusty grotto]

at least for damage

season2*

[median tulip]

Because Trinkets basically don't exiist for me

[lusty grotto]

or do you mean granyth

[median tulip]

No, I meant Season 2

[lusty grotto]

hehe

i looted that trinket like

2nd or 3rd week

never used it

and of course trinkets also dont exist for me

[median tulip]

I had it week 2; had nothing else for like 2 months after

eventually got anvil and OCE combo though

[lusty grotto]

cant remember what i used, but def didnt use dreadplates

[median tulip]

Anvil was fun just for playing the game of "can I keep one stack of 5 for the whole dungeon?"

Bit like when we had the banner minigame to keep us entertained

[lusty grotto]

same for signet

except you dont activate it, its automatic within a certain timeframe

[cerulean tusk]

Oh, they are not reverting the nerf on Beacon?

[lusty grotto]

its still pretty good

or it will be

[pallid quiver]

They should overcompensate and make it so strong, it's better than S1 War Within trinkets

[lusty grotto]

xD

i mean they should

its void related

[pallid quiver]

it'd be funny

[lusty grotto]

a trinket with a story tie-in

kind of like you know the SP artifact dagger cough cough

[pallid quiver]

the what

what are you talking about, that doesn't exist

[lusty grotto]

time\

[fringe lava]

Is there a quick/easy way to see what hurt you during a key?

Let's say you are doing a pack and something just chunks you, not necessarily killing you but clearly that should be mitigated in some way. Is there a quick way to see what it was called so you can prepare for it next time?

[blazing condor]

looking at the log is the best way

but not the fastest

look at Details for the current fight and see your damage taken

and if you see one ability that hit once and did 80% hp then you know

[ionic fern]

Generally speaking - any casters, any bleeds.

That's about it.

If you have some specific pack in mind, we can probably tell you what it is.

You can also check MDT and see which mobs cast etc.

[fringe lava]

That could work for me actually, good tip!

I am just getting back into tanking again and haven't played since early S2.
In S2 I fondly remember a pack in Freehold where I got rinsed and couldn't figure out why 😂

[blazing condor]

This season its probably the packs with the dogs in TOTT that have the biggest rinse factor

at least when you first do it

[fringe lava]

Yea, I wanted a way to see what the hit was called so that I can look for it in MDT 🙂

[blazing condor]

because you dont expect the small dogs to chunk you so much

[fringe lava]

Yes that is my fear 😂

I guess it's an experience factor, but I only want to need one try for experience before I know what to look for 😁

[blazing condor]

a lot of it is just experience yeah

but good to know what to expect

[fringe lava]

I imagine the Oakheart boss in DHT has a learning curve for the grip? Because I've seen so many tanks get absolutely smashed on that in keys 15-20

[ionic fern]

You just have to rotate defensives properly.

Once you get the hang of that, it's np.

[grim pilot]

Leap from the frontal and check pins for proper rotation and vod of it

[ionic fern]

And then you hope that the healer knows that he's supposed to pay a bit attention to you on it.

[fringe lava]

SR is Spell Reflect?

[deft hinge]

y

[fringe lava]

Cool 😁

I found the nifty Spell Reflect Weakaura, is there one for Spell Block or do you use that differently?

[ionic fern]

No idea, for me it's just experience.

[fringe lava]

I assumed that was the case 🙂
Thanks for all the feedback!

[solemn kelp]

Hello. Is there any special trick we can use in BRH to help avoid anyone dying in the pull when Commander Shemdahson(sp?) and his pack appears? I seem to be missing something here.

[ionic fern]

Is that the one before the gates open to the 2nd boss?

[solemn kelp]

Yeah, where everyone los behind the pillar

[ionic fern]

That's about it.

Everyone LoS'es.

What exactly is the issue you're facing?

-Everyone LoS
-Mobs run to you, you TC

You can also be outside and Heroic Throw/Taunt/TC beforehand and then LOS.

To grab initial agro.

[solemn kelp]

Can't say specifically, almost every BRH run I go on someone dies when the pack arrives. I've tried putting down a ravager, CS. But TC alone doesnt seem to cut it.

Was wondering if I was missing something but I guess I'm just being unlucky with my group(s).

[ionic fern]

There's a chance that some of the mobs are running from the otherside of the pillar, so they might slap someone.

More than likely your DPS just starts attacking before you get your initial TC off

This holds especially true with ranged DPS'ers.

[solemn kelp]

Alright. I'm not failing then.

thanks

[warm plinth]

Does this show as 0 to 0 for anyone else lol? Maybe a mobile bug

[pallid quiver]

6-2

[lusty grotto]

oh no, my vote is shown

[pallid quiver]

It even yelled at me about the results in my Discord inbox

[lusty grotto]

[pallid quiver]

I completely forgot Discord had an inbox

[warm plinth]

@ionic fern congrats on your victory

[pallid quiver]

also ghash, get me into a heroic raid i can afk to the end in, kthx

ghash has forsaken me... hate to see it

[ionic fern]

Huh?

Also,hello,hope you are doing well.

[pallid quiver]

huh

I forgot how hard Laro swats you after the charge when your co-tank takes about 3 minutes to find their taunt button

[warm plinth]

I made a poll asking if you were the cutest val'kyr and it was a resounding yes. I am doing pretty well; hope you are too!

[blazing condor]

rigged

[sick sentinel]

Why is Vers better on fury than prot

[urban portal]

vers is the same amount of "absolute good" on every spec

[waxen frigate]

Tanks take damage in a diffeeent way than Dps

[urban portal]

you have to ask why crit is worse on fury than prot

[sick sentinel]

Haste is prots best stat while Haste is furys worst

[urban portal]

fury doesnt need haste anymore

you have 100% enrage uptime for free

tier doesnt really interact with haste

[cerulean tusk]

Oh come on, not #protection fury discussion again. It is always a headache

[urban portal]

vers mastery gets you the 3 hardest hititng BBs possible

[dusky canopy]

Playing fury when all your gear is min maxed for arms

I ended up crafting 2 more embellishments and 2 rings to help swing my stats properly but it’s still pretty bad

I sim like 235 as fury and 251 as arms

[median tulip]

The current implementation of Arms feels terrible to play

[blazing condor]

i like it 🙂

[dusky canopy]

I also like it

Fury imo, is very boring

Also I tend to spam more when I play fury so hands hurt lol

[strong forum]

Wrong

[median tulip]

Really not.
Arms feels like there's 3 different playstyles trapped in a sack and fighting each other

[urban portal]

hate build diversity

[strong forum]

que?

wdym 3 playstyles

[blazing condor]

the build diversity is what - execute vs bladestorm?

[solemn current]

Probably referring to Bladestorm vs juggernaut vs fervor but how dare a spec have different small differences that you can choose from.

[strong forum]

fervor is a meme

and BS vs Jugg play almost exactly the same

[fallow nova]

What's the recommended spell reflect weakaura? I see a few options

[strong forum]

i dont use one at all

so i cant say which to recommend

[fallow nova]

Is ursine vengeance bugged? Just did a dungeon where it wasn't on the details meter at all

[pallid quiver]

all three war specs are bad because i don't get to press execute as much as i want

[waxen frigate]

Yes

It has not worked all week

[strong forum]

yeah ursine vengeance doesnt work at all currently

[waxen frigate]

For… reasons

🙂

[ionic fern]

Oh, damn. Now i'm blushing.

[pallid quiver]

it got to him

He could no longer blind himself to how beloved he is

we love you, mwahi

[strong forum]

heres my answer

[waxen frigate]

[strong forum]

[waxen frigate]

Mod abuse

[oblique garnet]

Cant believe youve done this

[fallow nova]

I've barely played retail this last week, didn't even notice until I checked today lol

[waxen frigate]

Ya I’m not like trying to shit on you

Just letting you know it’s happened since reset and we don’t know why

[fallow nova]

Has it been acknowledged anywhere, or should I go hunting for an alternative?

[waxen frigate]

Surely they’ll fix it

[oblique garnet]

🍝

[fallow nova]

They'll fix it right after they make hpal fun to play again

[oblique garnet]

It will probably get fixed soonTM

[waxen frigate]

And then broken again like usual

That trinket is a mess

See: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Mv8KTXqaftrHbVCJ#fight=3&type=damage-done

[plush tendon]

it such a funky trinket

doesnt feel like it should be this buggy XD

[violet ginkgo]

but blizzard loves buggy stuffs

[hardy snow]

Ursine even when working properly wasnt great trinket 🤷‍♂️

[torn gulch]

damn sense is taking the 0.1% title

not bad at all

[warm plinth]

I'm sorry Late. Maybe the two no votes were on your side

[oblique garnet]

Woah didnt even inclyde options just yes no

[warm plinth]

Lol, listen man I just came up with it in 2 seconds when discord said i could use polls

[keen leaf]

"Spell reflect essentials (dragonflight)" is what I have, it works really well

[torn gulch]

season 4 ptr tommorow
that means 17 to 24 april season start

around that

[plush tendon]

sooner the better

[strong forum]

nah

[plush tendon]

Im ready to do some DF dungeons again

[strong forum]

severe doubt we get season in less than 4 weeks lol

my bet is early may

[plush tendon]

I didnt get lego until after we killed Mythic Fyrakk.... I got enough copium to hope for a April release

[strong forum]

we're currently in week 17 of the season

s2 was 26 weeks

[waxen frigate]

You sure? That sounds not right

[jagged pier]

that is correct

[waxen frigate]

My first mythic kill was 18 weeks ago according to r.io

Plus arguably the week before that

[fallow nova]

That's what I went with lol

[hardy snow]

14/15th may will be new season

[strong forum]

hm

[torn gulch]

this ptr does not take more than 4 weeks

for a fated season

[strong forum]

what makes you think s4 releases before plunderstorm ends

just because ptr is going up?

[torn gulch]

plunderstorm ends on april 27 right?

[strong forum]

30th

[strong forum]

okay yeah sorry 19 weeks

[torn gulch]

then when do they fit 10.2.7 in june around ff14 launch?

and prepatch in august?

[strong forum]

so if they follow the previous season cadence

we should expect a may release

[torn gulch]

that will be absolutely garbage then

[strong forum]

will it?

why

[torn gulch]

because that means that 10.2.6 is considered a full fledged patch which is is not

what did this patch bring apart from pluderstorm

and i say that as a player that plays plunderstorm

[wind oak]

because it is Plunderstorm patch

[torn gulch]

i'll state a deeply unpopular opinion but that is full yikes then

actually nevermind 10.2.7 can come in may as well as they will not base the launch on the start of season 4 but the start of the previous patch most likely

[strong forum]

Correct

They're minigame patch releases

Not full fledged patches

10.2.6 came with the s4 item files

And dungeon changes already

[torn gulch]

so april 30 for season 4 then somewhere in may for 10.2.7 (panda timerunning and quests that set up the new xpac)

[strong forum]

Something like that

[torn gulch]

fair enough kinda late but fair enough

[dusky canopy]

What do I do after renown 40?

Touch grass?

[torn gulch]

farm 1m plunder

kekw

[dusky canopy]

[timid thicket]

Start farming meta achivement

[dusky canopy]

When you get 2-4k per duo it actually is feasible

But idk man isnt that like 200 hours of gameplay lol

[jagged pier]

still not gunna do it

[dusky canopy]

Yeah not worth honestly

Grind renown 40 10 times

[timid thicket]

I got plunder 40 on day 3, I had a good time while doing it but I haven't and prob won't play any more

[jagged gust]

I'm trying my best to get at least 1 match in a day, hopefully I won't have to grind too hard before it comes to a close

maybe second plunder buff to ease the pain

[oblique garnet]

Excuses

[warm plinth]

3 days wtf

[fallow nova]

How to burn oneself out on a gaming experience lol

[echo egret]

i wouldn't call Plunderstorm a "gaming experience"

at all.

[fallow nova]

Any video game is a gaming experience, even if you think it's bad

That's like me calling asparagus "not a food"

It's interesting to me how, when someone else uses the earthquake aoe, it has a seven MILE radius outside of the visible marker

[jagged pier]

nah your probably in the air

and wow doesnt update your position until your on the ground

so if your trying to get out with jumping, dont

[dusky canopy]

I did it in roughly 12-14 hours it’s really not bad for people who make it to the end frequently

It totally sucks for people who average 500 plunder or less a game

[fallow nova]

Just gotta figure out how to land next to all of the elites and afkers so I'm lvl 9 like a minute into it lol

[dusky canopy]

Yeah my strat is to land in an elite dense area and fight for control of it

Usually level 5 or 6 in the first 2 minutes of the match

That will snowball you the rest of the match if you can stay consistent

[jagged pier]

see funny thing is wowhead says dont drop in the village to the right

[dusky canopy]

And duos is much faster if you can find a friend

[jagged pier]

every time i dropped there i won

cause no else was ther

free far

[dusky canopy]

I drop there too because wowhead told everybody else not too

Free xp

[jagged pier]

^^

3-4 elites

real quick

please and thank you

[timid thicket]

I finished around lunch on day 3 so 2.5 days maybe? 7 wins. After the buffs I was getting 4000+ for a win. I had great fun the whole time, but it's not complex enough to make me want more. It was fun bite size and I got out while was still fun

[dusky canopy]

I’m going to keep playing duos with my friends that haven’t hit 40 yet but I don’t think I’ll spend much more time in solo

[jagged pier]

im not going in again

[dusky canopy]

It’s a lot of fun for sure but the reward track was motivating me to keep playing

[jagged pier]

not that i dont enjoy it

i have no want to play it with no rewards left

[timid thicket]

If there was a ladder or visible MMR I could be convinced

[dusky canopy]

Personally I’d rather their be no mmr

[timid thicket]

But everything outside the gameplay is non existent. Barebones

[dusky canopy]

I’m fine getting totally schooled some matches but also doing the schooling in others

It’s more fun that way

[timid thicket]

There is MMR

[dusky canopy]

Everything needing to be fare is boring

[timid thicket]

But hidden

[dusky canopy]

I know

[jagged pier]

yer theres MMR

[dusky canopy]

I’m just saying

[jagged pier]

its 'fixed'

[dusky canopy]

Idk how accurate the mmr is when you go on 3 or 4 win streaks with your duo partner

I know we’re not that good lmao

[jagged pier]

its blizz and mmr

not very good at all

[pallid quiver]

especially if they're factoring in connection as part of their results, because then all bets are off

[dusky canopy]

10 ping vs 200 is rough for sure

People teleporting is fun to watch

Tbf teleporting is probably way more than 200 ping

[timid thicket]

Let couple games I played people started doing this shit where they DC or run into storm when about to lose, to deny you the loot

Smh

[dusky canopy]

Yeah I was running into that too

I just chase them down

If I know I can live the storm for a bit

Talk about cringe behavior lmao

[pallid quiver]

brother this was my life in fight game lands earlier

worst part was the character already has teleports as part of his toolset

[fallow nova]

You can tell when you get a lot of anti-pvpers running into storms in a match when it's only halfway through the timer, but every mob is dead and somehow everyone's still running around with shitty lvl1 or 2 powers

[warm plinth]

I went in to a solo match day before yesterday and it only had 30 people in it

[fallow nova]

Wtf lol

I've only played solos so far. Some of the matches are day and night in terms of how well they play out

Getting better at the pvp part though

Killed someone 2 lvls above me with just the fish, stealth blink and faeform

[warm plinth]

Yeah I'm getting better as well. Definitely depends on what shit you get though

One match I got stuck with star bomb and earthbreaker

Could not get another spell to save my life

[fallow nova]

I keep seeing people wreck with earthbreaker and I can never get it to work well for me

My best run was with holy shield, slicing winds, faeform and the tornado stun

[warm plinth]

I like holy shield. Slicing Winds is really cool too because you can charge it and fly through without opening yourself to counterattack

[timid thicket]

I have a 483 gholak, a 489 weapon from dawn and 483 shield. Trinkets are 489 crab and 483 fire serpent thing. I have full HC raid and m+ slots in vault. Would you open as prot to try and get 489 shield/ rageheart or as arms for augary/signet brand?

[pallid quiver]

You should be able to just pug Gnarl for a max ilvl shield with best stats

theoretically, according to myth

I'd personally really go for any kind of proper trinkets as a result myself

[median tulip]

It has been [ZERO] days since I have been kicked from a Raid Group because the other tank fucked the mechanic up

"U died first"
Yes, that's because the other tank didn't taunt volcoross for jaws
"But u died fiirst"

sigh

[urban portal]

hate installing dbm to taunt for you

[pallid quiver]

I left before I could get kicked when the Laro thing happened to me earlier

also because holy fuck, i ain't about whatever was going on in that group

[glacial skiff]

so what's the go to enchant for prot in M+ now? i remember reading some people say wafting was better somehow, but i've been running sophic.

[lusty grotto]

sim

[glacial skiff]

how do we sim M+ nowadays?

[lusty grotto]

5 target patchwerk, lust, 1.5 or 1 min

[waxen frigate]

when are we dropping

[warm plinth]

Lol we can do some tomorrow if you want. I'm settling down for bed atm

[waxen frigate]

smh

guess ill keep winning trial of style instead

[vale bolt]

Can someone please have a look through this log for me and tell me what I am doing wrong? I felt like I was playing ok but we depleted because I felt like I just wasn't getting healed enough? Idk am I crazy?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/zcfw971APhRjCZ6t#fight=last

[chilly brook]

MAN FUCK BLIZZ

[jagged pier]

Still dont know why ppl are suprised by this it was datamined in s1

[wind oak]

Gladiator stance would be either OP or complete garbage in retail

[violet ginkgo]

I think will be... I dunno... if in raid then when you are not the one tanking it's nice 10% boost is definitely big but in M+.... I am not sure reducing armor 30% and lowering threat generation is a good idea.

[waxen quarry]

it just wouldn't work

cause its essentially a half dps half tank

i mean id like to see it

to tank low keys and still do dam

but i can see how unhealthy it is

although they could just leave it garbage forever

and only be there for fun like smf

[strong forum]

Make it so you can stance swap in raid

Have your bdk solo tank (which they do anyway already)

And you are glad stance for 90% of the fight

[blazing condor]

[thin glade]

Why complain about a stance in a different game?

[pallid quiver]

I keep thinking about maybe messing with season of discovery

But then I realize I don't really have anyone to play it with, and I'm not sure if it'd keep my interest solo/pugging

[jagged pier]

its fine u join a random guild and just sign up to their raid invites

👍

[hardy snow]

it is done, now just wait till Blizz fixes bugged mount

[blazing condor]

Big

This man games

[fallow nova]

All this time and THIS is where they give us Glad back?

[violet ginkgo]

Well kind of, in SOD

[plush tendon]

im pretty stoked about it

and the sword and board talent

makes the prot tree worth considering

[fallow nova]

I haven't really messed with SoD, feels too far behind considering I'd be pugging/soloing all of it.

[cerulean tusk]

Wouldn't know, but wow always have let people catch up given minimum effort. So don't let that hold you back

[plush tendon]

SoD is very easy to catchup

gold and exp wise (50%-100% gains till max level!)

its just finding players you want to play with; pointless to be soloing in SoD IMO

[blazing condor]

having friends is a must

its over

[plush tendon]

especially when you could be plundering

[blazing condor]

only thing im plundering is my future by not getting my life together

[lusty grotto]

plunder dn

[hardy snow]

[silk sandal]

Does anyone have any tips for surviving the spider hallway in brh on high keys?

My strat has been, healer dispels the first time my health spikes from teh dot, then i dwarf the next time i see it, then healer dispels again, then pray enough is dead

but yesterday I just got full 100->0 from 1 set of stacks lol

[dusky canopy]

Do you press shield wall and demo shout in there somewhere?

[silk sandal]

yep

[dusky canopy]

Hit in the back?

[silk sandal]

if i need to be playing around dots hitting me in the back, ive been doing something wrong 🙃

but yeah, had dstance, shield wall, demo, spell reflect, spell block, last stand (tbh i have no idea if spellblock or reflect dr it at all but ya know its not like i need either in the hallway or next room anyways)

[earnest cove]

Using any kind of big absorb helps reduce stack gain i.e. fyrakk trinket / cocoon

[hardy snow]

spell reflect gives you dr for all magic dmg

[solemn kelp]

anybody else having issues with their target reticles disappearing?

[warm plinth]

Frankly that dot was tuned silly this time around

It was insignificant in Legion and now it's straight up fatal

[silk sandal]

ya was fortified 28 so i guess that was the point where it was a problem lol

I talked to a friend who recommended the absorb shield thing too so just going to have leaf going into it in the future (and maybe this week will be the first rageheart i see all tier =X)

upside i guess is that when it drops i just get it which is pog

[merry sluice]

yep second the absorb. THey dont apply stacks until you actually lose health from their attack

[cerulean tusk]

You can reduce the amount of stacks by using ravager to parry some of them, then ya do what ya already done

[compact palm]

Rav does what

[lusty grotto]

funkykitty is on the wrong expansion

there hasnt been parry added with ravager for a while

[compact palm]

That's what I thought

[lusty grotto]

50%parry stonks

❤️ yamo

[oak ivy]

can I loot fyralath in prot loot spec

[lusty grotto]

yes

[oak ivy]

🫡

[blazing condor]

can confirm

[torn gulch]

damn some good stuff for halls of infusion

checkpoint on frog boss and only one cast away phase on primal tsunami

[blazing condor]

that is good changes

took it up from a 1 to a 2

[lusty grotto]

thank fucking god

[oak ivy]

yummy

[torn gulch]

they did other nerfs and QoL as well

[lusty grotto]

but still needs a bit more changes

[torn gulch]

in infusions

[lusty grotto]

like dog said

[strong forum]

these nerfs are insane

half of brackenhide is outright removed

xdd

[lusty grotto]

yeah idk why they nerfed BH

[oak ivy]

donde patch notes

[lusty grotto]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/massive-dragonflight-season-4-mythic-dungeon-tuning-checkpoint-added-in-halls-of-338305

[oak ivy]

ty pookie

[torn gulch]

brackenhide after nerfs was ok

that diurna ring on heroic fated is myth track holy smokes

so good

[blazing condor]

theoretically you could get more than 1 water phase on last boss

if you do some sanguine shenanigans

[lusty grotto]

lol uldamans nerfs

uldaman just joined hoi's shit tier

[lusty grotto]

and it was already almost last

[blazing condor]

no wait

is that only mythic

fuk

not m+

nvm

[merry sluice]

I sure look forward to first boss cutitng my framerate in half each time

[strong forum]

anything that is mythic difficulty, is also in mythic+

[median tulip]

Oh they've nerfed Crawth's peck attack. AA is going to be a good key, that was the pain point

[lusty grotto]

yeah they said so like 2 weeks ago

but a lot of these are new

[median tulip]

Oh and the charge trinket is removed on the final boss of Neltharus... that'll help with pugging

[blazing condor]

yeah i realised but cba to go back and change again

mixed up cus different loot-tables in dungeon guide from mythic and m+

then its still pogging

[echo egret]

The bleed in Uldaman is still there. Still my worst dungeon.

[lusty grotto]

thats not uldaman's problem

[warm plinth]

Eh

[lusty grotto]

bleed is easy

pull every basilisk, stop chain them

dwarf

[warm plinth]

Yeah I don't mind basilisk bleed; it's what, 2 pulls in the dungeon? 3 pulls?

[lusty grotto]

if you pull 2 by 2 by 2 youre gonna get fucked

[echo egret]

no it's not if you're not a dwarf and have no evoker.

[lusty grotto]

so play stops

big ass 1st pull and they are done

[warm plinth]

Play stops, kite if you need to once defensives are gone

🤷

[echo egret]

yeah kiting is the most satisfying experience as a tank, totally fills the fantasy !

[warm plinth]

It's 3 pulls

in one dungeon

I'm sure you'll survive.

[pallid quiver]

no we'll die

nothing we can do at all

[median tulip]

In my old static the play we used was to Earth Elemental the first pack of Basilisks

Same as how we dealt with the adds on the tree in AA

That tactic works on the spiders in BRH as well

[lusty grotto]

literally the best way

to do basilisks

is to pull every single one

and play stops

first pull, first 3 pulls, it doesnt matter

its literally NOT why uldaman is shit

uldaman is shit because its too long, timer is too tight, and it's extremely limited in terms of routing

you do the entire dungeon correctly and then fuck up on emberon? guess what you just wasted half an hour to 40 minutes

[grave wedge]

So im reading these keystone changes, 20 is still best for vault?

[lusty grotto]

no 8

in the next season

[pallid quiver]

imagine if you had to do 20s next season for the best vault reward

+30 or bust, idiots, get good

[lusty grotto]

these are ptr notes sully

[grave wedge]

yeah just a little lost by some of it lol, personaly i hate the reward system for vault, i also think less levels of key with harsher scaling is better so im hoping i dont have pug 18s - 20s next season for it

id rather do a 15 thats as hard as a 20 because it took me less seperate pug shit shows to get there

but im reading that theres no time until 10? but then you get mythic gear at 8 lol...so it sounds like i need to wait for an offical blue post cause this sounds too easy

[pallid quiver]

A +2 is gonna be the same as a +12 now

[grave wedge]

as in difficulty is equvalnt gear

[pallid quiver]

An M0 is a +10, but no timer

[grave wedge]

not this seasons 2 is last seasons 12 shit felt super easy this season was doing 18s week 1 hence my confusion lol

[pallid quiver]

Heroics are now as hard as M0

[grave wedge]

so they ARE making them harder

good

[pallid quiver]

Yeah, Heroics are harder, M0s are harder, M+ levels are the equivalent of now +10 levels, so new +2 is a now +12

[grave wedge]

im with it

its be rough for a week or two till people get stuck in there places hopefully

tired of running 18s and people dont know mechanics. the time dungeons are the worst with that

[median tulip]

S4 M+8 gives you Mythic Track 1/4, but S4 M+10 is best for 2/4 if you can do it and save yourself crests early season.

[hardy snow]

same as in previous seasons

[graceful goblet]

hard vault choice upgrades, a 23 ilvl pants upgrade for same tier piece (from 447 to 470), or replacing one of my trinkets with a different one thats 19 ilvl higher

current trinkets are 454 Nightmare Egg Shell (Veteran 5/8) and 454 Gore-Crusted Butcher's Block (Champion 1/8), which I could replace one with 473 Ember of Nullification (Hero 3/6)

[strong forum]

pants

but also doesnt matter really what you pick as all these items are farmable from m+ by trying to do higher keys if you can

so ultimately you will replace all the items you currently wear, including these vault options, by getting into higher keys!

(17+)

as long as you keep at it, but generally its recommended to upgrade armor items first, trinkets (unless literal bis (which doesnt come from m+)) usually not

[graceful goblet]

awesome thanks for the reply!

[torn gulch]

time to run some weapon sims for next season 528 gholak vs 528 strike twice vs 528 pogstorm

[lusty grotto]

nope

gholak wins since cantrip

[torn gulch]

gholak will prob win both single and multi

[lusty grotto]

the other 2 lose stats

since they arent cantrip

unless they nerf the effect, it will win every time

[torn gulch]

gholak has 2k dps over pogstorm in ST

[lusty grotto]

like i said

you dont need to run a sim

[torn gulch]

i like numbers

with dinar items going all the way up to 4/4 myth straight gholak and rageheart

[lusty grotto]

rageheart dmg is nerfed so

[torn gulch]

i played with lfr rageheart all season

[lusty grotto]

gholak yes, trinkets are still debatable

[strong forum]

gholak...

its not even close

[torn gulch]

2k single 4k multi

vs pogstorm

[lusty grotto]

common sense > sim

[strong forum]

strike twice is the best weapon from keys