protection

[chilly brook]

My buddy is moba brain

[opaque quest]

Hots is being remade in SC2 btw

[chilly brook]

He didn’t have any problems picking up the “way too many buttons” of wow

[opaque quest]

So far its looking good

[tribal wharf]

i jus always called it killing camps in wc3

im gunna go kil the green cmap

i need u help with red camp

[opaque quest]

People complaining about buttons while prolly not having touched brew

[pliant trout]

lockstep is kekw

the sync method

[chilly brook]

Every class has like 3-5 rotational buttons

[pliant trout]

i skipped sc2 does it rewind to reconnect the players?

[chilly brook]

Everything else is either a CD or situational

[grim pilot]

@strong forum are u getting invited to keys

[tribal wharf]

there iis alot of hidden potential locked away with starcraft

[pliant trout]

or it's only in hots?

[grim pilot]

or do you just do your shit

my key is back to 24 again

so I switched to prot

:xdd:

[tribal wharf]

alot of hidden profit i should say if they make a bunch of games on it

[pliant trout]

all games are dead except sc2 mb because of the legacy

[tribal wharf]

like, fps, one where your flying a spaceship shoot crap, maybe and rpg, all of this in sc lore i wouild say

[pliant trout]

still some prefer sc1 lol

[tribal wharf]

we need starcraft 3

[strong forum]

once every 40 signups on average

(completely random number)

[pliant trout]

which level?

[strong forum]

26

[pliant trout]

yea they are longer

[chilly brook]

RIP Starcraft Ghost

[pliant trout]

and mostly some low skills invite you u_u and you deplete

cause others want pala/vdh xD

[strong forum]

i play dps

[pliant trout]

ahhh

[strong forum]

tanking is too easy this season

[opaque quest]

Not sure about SC3. We need more units thats it. SC2 is just so well balanced

[tribal wharf]

there is no reason they couldnt do it still

[strong forum]

got boring

[grim pilot]

idk honestly

[tribal wharf]

all the tech crap they got out

[grim pilot]

I havent tanked anything semi high

so I cant tell

[strong forum]

any key i did this season as prot was just me falling asleep

[grim pilot]

max I did was wcm 24 today and brh 24 forti bolstering

[strong forum]

ultra autopilot

[grim pilot]

oh and I did eb 24 on tyra but

I'm a tiny bit scared of forti

[lusty grotto]

kekw kappa

[strong forum]

EB fort is a fucking joke

you pull the entire game

[torn gulch]

i moved half of my crit into versa as a test to see how it feels
might be placebo but it feels a little bit better

[strong forum]

entirely placebo

you shouldnt notice any difference with any stat spread

[torn gulch]

probably

[strong forum]

except maybe dmg output

[lusty grotto]

omegalul

[torn gulch]

i'll play a little bit longer like this

to see how it goes

[lusty grotto]

feelcraft

[strong forum]

my stats are completely lmao cuz of legendary

i got like 4.6k crit 5.6k haste 2k mastery and 3.5k vers

all my crafted items are different stats

all my sockets are vers mastery

all my enchants are crit

xd

[opaque quest]

Thats how my DK looks too tho

Half of my crafted are has mas some are crit vers some crit mas

[pliant trout]

the dude who writes wowhead guides? PogChamp

[lusty grotto]

kappa

omegalul

[steady karma]

You're free to do what you like of course, but just to be clear

• Botting is strictly against the game's ToS and discussion/promotion of botting is against our server rules

So whatever your feelings about the game, please refrain

[lusty grotto]

PogChamp Archim

[urban portal]

rare archi prot appearance

[plush tendon]

gotta keep legal off his back

[lusty grotto]

xff

being hard stuck on twitch speak is hard

[pliant trout]

yea ok, sorry. i ofc didn't read the rules but they won't stop me anyway. but people are get triggered by it so w/e i mean i won't mention.

[opaque quest]

"rules wont stop me"

Dude has his joker moment

[lusty grotto]

sounds like a 15 year old tbh

[steady karma]

Weird response, but ok - as long as we're clear. Whatever personal feelings you have aside, it's not a fit topic of conversation for this discord

[pliant trout]

if i want something to do i will despite the ban etc. thats what i ment

everything has consequences UuU

[lusty grotto]

[plush tendon]

[steady karma]

I don't care what you do, just what you discuss here

[pliant trout]

no worries you asked well thats why i won't

[steady karma]

Thanks

[opaque quest]

On a cooler note. "new" Borderlands has a bladestorm "vault hunter"

[strong forum]

D4 season starts in 5 days

[opaque quest]

[strong forum]

Just in time for shit affix week

[opaque quest]

I still dont have a usable uber

I got starless shit twice

[strong forum]

Wait no it's the reveal

F

[steady karma]

Wish I put more time into S2, it actually seemed p fun

[opaque quest]

Thought so. Season is on the 21st i think

[steady karma]

just too many other competing things right now

[pliant trout]

btw how does exactly ignore pain works. for example i casted ip then some absorb trinket. whats the mechanic? my question is will it make the absorb shield take 50% less damage? (well not 50 but stacked + mult 50)

i mean can you abuse ip + absorb?

[strong forum]

Full absorb > IP

[pliant trout]

to make the absorb last longer?

[opaque quest]

It was good until you reached the point where all you do is farm whispers and helltide for duriel

[grim pilot]

@strong forum

[strong forum]

Nah only partial absorbs last longer with IP

[grim pilot]

back to 23

[strong forum]

Full absorbs don't

[grim pilot]

xddd

[opaque quest]

https://tenor.com/view/pepe-why-pepe-the-frog-sad-crying-gif-16026853

[steady karma]

well sure, though tbf that's pretty much every arpg/collection game in one way or another

[strong forum]

Should've had spellblock/sw/kicked/stunned

[pliant trout]

so the order is separate?

for ip

[strong forum]

Full absorbs always come first

[grim pilot]

spell block on cd

[strong forum]

IP is only a partial absorb

[grim pilot]

so was reflect

and shield wall

:xdd:

[strong forum]

So it comes after

[pliant trout]

ip does kind a nothing? only splits the damage between itself and hp?

[grim pilot]

there was defo something I could've done

[pliant trout]

or w/e comes under?

[grim pilot]

but kekw

[opaque quest]

Thats fair but the amount of resources/hour is just to low in D4

[strong forum]

IP is one of the reasons why you can survive

[pliant trout]

no i mean mechanically

[strong forum]

Cuz if not fully consumed it's still 50% dmg reduction

[pliant trout]

it doesnt reduce any damage?

[strong forum]

It's an absorb

Idk how else to put it

[pliant trout]

it's not dr

[strong forum]

It works like any absorb, but only half of the dmg

[pliant trout]

dr works on every layer

i guess

this is a mechanic which splits the damage between

[strong forum]

Dr works on every layer, IP works on every layer except when there's a FULL absorb ontop of IP

[steady karma]

eh, every game has issues - I'm not defending it, just saying I kinda wish I'd put more time into it this season; I didn't even do the holiday event

[urban portal]

so IP gets eaten after real absorbs?

[strong forum]

Yes

After rageheart

After cocoon

After powerword shield

That's why partial absorbs are OP for us

Or generally all partial absorbs are OP

[pliant trout]

is there some list of hierarchy of those mechanics ? and damage one?

like crit/parry in which order it's applied

source of some wow servers? >u>

[strong forum]

Tanks can't get crit
Parry is a separate roll, same as block

[pliant trout]

are there other partial absorbs?

[strong forum]

No

[pliant trout]

or just depends on seasonal trinkets

[strong forum]

Only ignore pain and 2 trinkets from last season

[pliant trout]

was there some?

hmmm

[strong forum]

Ignore pain is really simple

It's an absorb, for half of every dmg amount until absorb cap is reached, the other half always goes to health or however much dmg is leftover after the absorb is gone

If you have a full absorb, it always goes first

That's it

Nothing else

[pliant trout]

well you answered the question ip can't improve the usage of absorbs

so no point to optimize around it

[strong forum]

Correct

There's generally very little optimisation for IP

You send it, all the time, to dump rage

Or to have it up for important mechanics

[pliant trout]

nah "me" uses it to prevent rage cap etc

<u<

[strong forum]

Correct

You don't want to waste rage

So you just send IP

[pliant trout]

yes

so boring

i mean no depth in theorycrafting

[strong forum]

Nop

Pwar has gotten exceedingly easy in dragonflight

2nd easiest tank in the game

[silver crane]

is this to much haste ?

[pliant trout]

i played in bfa/sl

[strong forum]

No

Bfa was even simpler

[pliant trout]

in sl "more serious"

first season was kekw

then they buffed the dr

passive

[lusty grotto]

kekw

[strong forum]

SL s3/s4 was peak prot warrior

I'll forever miss it

But it was too hard for wow

So they gutted it

[pliant trout]

no

not too hard for "me"

sadly i missed it u_u

[urban portal]

SL S1 was too hard in general

[pliant trout]

it's wher "i" would excell >u>

[urban portal]

abyssal strike best defensive

we love running away

[strong forum]

Around 7k haste is when you wanna start looking into other stats

[lusty grotto]

unbuffed rating

[silver crane]

cool, thanks ! quite high margin

[pliant trout]

why so much?

ahh ok sorry

it's around 45% yea

[silver crane]

how can i see the limits ?

[strong forum]

True stat values I think is an addon

[lusty grotto]

7100 unbuffed rating, you can install true stat value too

its the 2nd dr on haste

[silver crane]

thank you 🙂

[silver crane]

i will install, thankss !

[lusty grotto]

percentages dont DR so

usually we ask what the unbuffed rating is at

so things like ITF and lust go past any diminishing returns

[strong forum]

It's actually other way around

The stats don't DR but % do

But because we have % multipliers in our talents

It's really fucky to go by that

[pliant trout]

stats are renormalized every season or not?

at least expansion

[strong forum]

Expansion, yes

[pliant trout]

i mean those values mean "something" they came up with

[strong forum]

Season no

[pliant trout]

cause every stat scales differently

[strong forum]

Not exactly

[pliant trout]

i mean not the numbers

[strong forum]

Mastery % for every spec yes

[pliant trout]

but effectiveness

[strong forum]

Well sure

Every spec prefers different stats to a certain degree

[pliant trout]

% is a better estimate imo thats they did it

numbers are for nerds >u>

i mean plain values

[strong forum]

% is fine, but like I said, prot warri has %haste multipliers in its talents

So it's easier to go by stat values

[silver crane]

it says i got 20% with 6510 haste

penalty

[strong forum]

That's wrong

[pliant trout]

yea

[strong forum]

You should be 490 away from the 20% penalty

[pliant trout]

thats ~41-42%

[strong forum]

390*

[silver crane]

:/

[strong forum]

Yeah that's just wrong

The 20% penalty starts at 6900

As it says on your sheet

You're at +38.32% from stats

[silver crane]

yea i got the rune, sorry 🙂

[lusty grotto]

if theres any issue with the calculations, someone can just leave a message to the addon's author

guy is active-ish

last update was dec 9th

https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/true-stat-values/comments

[opaque quest]

https://tenor.com/view/yikes-davidrose-david-danlevy-schittscreek-gif-13614037685077304427

[uneven mason]

That's maximum sexy

[plush tendon]

make a human hunter

they actually look really cool

[uneven mason]

https://tenor.com/view/barney-no-himym-barney-smile-no-hm-no-barney-gif-26652793

[opaque quest]

Hunter is Mag Har in CM Set or bust

[dusky canopy]

Bro chill with that drip

[sharp crystal]

verse / haste or crit /haste for higher keys (24+)

[lusty grotto]

whatever you want, i havent swapped from haste/crit

at 25ish

versa wont make much difference

[sharp crystal]

okay yeah been crit/haste this week i was just got humbled last week going into some high tyrannical didnt know if we needed to switch up for higher ones

[lusty grotto]

doubtful

[sharp crystal]

kk thank you

[lusty grotto]

maybe 27s might need some swaps, but also very up to the player

getting humbled in tyrannicals last week is just a cd planning issue

[toxic gyro]

Maybe only on last boss in rise lol

[sharp crystal]

rise

yep

that was the one

[lusty grotto]

thats still a cd planning issue

[hardy snow]

wait, something is easier?

[lusty grotto]

bear

[toxic gyro]

True, leaping every other breath in p1 is key

[lusty grotto]

yup

[toxic gyro]

And then just rotating cds between portal adds

[sharp crystal]

oooooo thats the play

[toxic gyro]

Yea u leap and run and breath doesn’t hit u, just don’t kill your party

[lusty grotto]

you also gotta put some threat into add before you do that

[sharp crystal]

okay will have to give that a try

[teal swift]

How we feeling s2 chads

[sharp crystal]

i always taunt adds

[lusty grotto]

otherwise they will blast your melee

put some damage in

[sharp crystal]

roar for the double

shout my bad

[lusty grotto]

taunt wont last for your jump and the run back

just pump dmg on them

[sharp crystal]

noted

[lusty grotto]

the instant they show up

you go ham

while looking at breath timer

[sharp crystal]

hell yeah thank you fellow warriors 😄

[lusty grotto]

no cross realm unlock, my dad lied

curse you John McBlizzard, my dad

[hardy snow]

ngl, Smolderon is cool boss

[opaque quest]

DK is easier too. Spam heartstrike

[strong forum]

just did 25 rise

i made a few mistakes

but still fairly chill tbh

but alright to time it when it was the 2nd rise you ever tanked

[grim pilot]

mf

idk man I tanked eb today and

it was so much damage

and rise is worse

[strong forum]

i ate last boss frontal without anything up

xd

[grim pilot]

:xdd:

[strong forum]

forgot to pop smth

only lived with like 15k hp

but is okay

managed afterwards

[grim pilot]

wait u had to have something because

I remember tanking it on 20 early on

I tried to leap out

and didnt pop anything

[strong forum]

i was in defensive stance

[grim pilot]

I didnt leap out and had like 5% hp

ah

[strong forum]

and maye demo shout up

[grim pilot]

ye

it was also tyra

[strong forum]

now trying throne 26

but ive never tanked it before so will see

[grim pilot]

throne is pretty chill

outside of goblins if you get poison

and outside of that 1 pack of bleed mf's

which should get annihilated in burst before they come back to you

[strong forum]

i know the dungeon

just never tanked on anything but 21 which is obv a yoke

[vocal nimbus]

Hi any tip planning defensives for smolderon MM?

[strong forum]

should have SW for every single buster?

[vocal nimbus]

whats worth to spell block?

[strong forum]

uuuh idk

[vocal nimbus]

SW for busters was a given yeah

[strong forum]

the boss is the same for tanks

as on HC

so

🤷‍♂️

[vocal nimbus]

maybe i will just throw everything into the buster

[strong forum]

or just play 2x BB

[vocal nimbus]

what was BB again?

gotta translate it haha

[strong forum]

bloddborne

extra bleed dmg

[vocal nimbus]

yeah SW is enough for everything

going double BB then

[bleak breach]

Crazy, was doing some 3min sims, which is most fights outside of Fyrakk and Tindral plus some prog

Signet is good for like 2 fights, if was purely looking at damage the crappy tree branch stomped em over 3mins

Is there a way to change bloodmallet to 3mins or is it just a base setting thing? Saves me comparing everything individually lol

[lusty grotto]

you cant change it

i dont think custom fight style extends to sim duration

maybe it does

i would figure that custom fight style only refers to patchwerks, castingpatchwerks, dungeon slice, hectic add cleave, etc

[bleak breach]

Yeah right, so just sim individually myself then? Is there a quick way to sim all trinkets or just the slow 1 by 1 comparisons?

[lusty grotto]

gear compare

[bleak breach]

Thanks

[narrow crystal]

hi all im anu im a woyer of 2.5 yrs and i like haste. im wondering if theres a way to find out when to stop getting haste and go for more vers/crit. i looked at diminishing return charts but can't find "optimal" stat values anywhere!

[grizzled nova]

Answer 1: sim yourself
Answer 2: https://bloodmallet.com/chart/warrior/protection/secondary_distributions/castingpatchwerk

[blazing condor]

You can pretty safely stack haste til 7100 rating unbuffed before switching. But sim if you wanna min max it

[narrow crystal]

that chart is cool tyvm! i will sim the difference between pieces i get and it looks like i will have to give away some of my haste :( tyty

[bleak breach]

@narrow crystal what content are you doing? Stats can differ based on single target or aoe

I.e I dropped 1200 haste for different stats and my numbers have increased fairly dramatically. My haste is at around 6100 crit and verse are beating haste at this stage.

[narrow crystal]

i'm doing +20 keys and mythic raid and am currently at 7,653 haste and my dmg/survivability seems comfy atm?

[lusty grotto]

the problem with dropping all that haste is that SB uptime will need to be minmaxed heavily

if talented into ITF

i.e. if someone had gaps at x amount of haste with ITF, they will probably have larger gaps if dropping haste due to sims etc

[bleak breach]

^

[narrow crystal]

oooh that makes sense. ive never looked at my uptime on SB if its good or bad. whats ITF?

[lusty grotto]

into the fray

[bleak breach]

You can definitely afford to drop some haste if you want, but that’s all for damage really

[lusty grotto]

that being said SB uptime should be accounted for in the sims (because SB buffs SS), but sims are often perfect

[narrow crystal]

oh yes i have ITF. yeah my main goal was a lil more dmg and i figured i had enough haste but wanted to know what was "optimal" range

[lusty grotto]

7100 rating unbuffed is the cap

[narrow crystal]

tyvm for all the info thats exactly what i was looking for i apprecaite :)

[vestal moat]

Does the weapon rune count as a buff for purposes of reaching the cap

[lusty grotto]

yes

[lavish sphinx]

Guys, guys - it’s okay. I voted S3 tier bonus on all 20 of my characters

I hope this doesn’t get me retro-banned

[trim bay]

u can ionvis skip the goblin pack right b4 the last 2 sentries or what ever htey are

[maiden nimbus]

How long is it worth waiting for Shield Slam to use a Violent Outburst proc on single target? In scenarios where SS is on CD an dI have 0 rage, am I better off just using it on TC since I dont have a chance at a reset?

[bleak breach]

2/3 GCD

[pallid quiver]

Never hold any GCDs for it; if you can't stall with revenge ir anything, send on TC

[modern gazelle]

damn tindril got nuked

[torn gulch]

are those changes enough?

[modern gazelle]

i mean it got obliterated

[waxen frigate]

put everything into buster and bomb

nothing else does any dmg

you have reflect for all

[pallid quiver]

Unless they did funny stuff to Smold on Mythic compared to Heroic, should be able to spell block the buster and it'll carry over for the bomb

[violet flume]

man i havent had a single prot warrior surpass 60% uptime on shield block on my mistweaver

thjis dude had rend as his 2nd damage ability too

[pallid quiver]

There's a reason people think Prot War is fucking horrendous

[violet flume]

yeah

i think its the least forgiving tank in regards to taking back shots for one

too much survivability seems to rely on block

[pallid quiver]

You also have to press your buttons before things happen

Instead of going in having literally zero fucking clue what goes on around you or even how to feed yourself on a daily basis, seeing big bar go down, press bandaid button

[median tulip]

I fucking loathe ranged DPS that pull ahead of me. You want to fucking pull, play a Tank. /rant

[jagged pier]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/832390254895300648.gif?size=96&quality=lossless

[blazing condor]

I just let them tank it

[teal swift]

I forgive BM hunters that are doing it to keep up frenzy stacks.

Other than. That fuck off

[blazing condor]

Unless im try harding a key then i gotta let them get away with it

But its more fun to watch them die

[teal swift]

If I was doing my job I'd have kept a better pace and not fucked the hunter.

[chilly brook]

If you’re taking 17 years to get the next pack and I have the time ticking down on brand you’re gonna see an axe get tossed

[jagged pier]

my job is not to finish the key as fast as possible its to be the timer

[median tulip]

I was literally running to the next pack. The Mage blinked ahead and ice lanced to pull.

worse, he did it on that pair of witches before the second boss in WCM, which start far apart and are a pain to get back together because they cast

Thou Shalt Not Bugger Up My Pulls

I am very strongly of the "The Right Route is the route that the tank is pulling"

school of thought

[rigid mountain]

i simply stoped carrying, if dps pulls and dies i dont care, he can cry me a rivier, if we don't time a key? cry me river, it's ur fault that u pulled something i wasn't going to or wasnt prepeared

[shut lodge]

that sucks, if someone does that to me a few times on a dungeon i stop aggroing the mob they pulled

[rigid mountain]

i hate more ppl that are starting busrt while i form the pack like in bloom, it takes 3-5s to set up a pull and dhs are just bombing right away and are like "why u didn't hold aggro" while i'm fucking yards away from pack, that's the real problem 😄

[hardy snow]

you can spellblock magic part of tanksoak on smolderon and explosion when you run out, but if you are unlucky and get 2nd soak, then 1st in next phase, cd my not be back, if you are going to take 2nd set, its good to use spellblock earlier, you already know you taking hit, so there is no need to wait and you will get cd back faster

spellblock makes this tankbuster easy af, standing in fire for bait hits harder then that

[warm plinth]

I'm with you on that one. Not that I have an issue with more mobs necessarily but like, I need to know what's coming so I can mentally prepare for it. I have CDs so a big pull is fine. I don't so I need to be more conservative. Meanwhile DPS sometimes are like HERE'S 3 PACKS LOL GOOD THING YOU HAVE DEMO SHOUT AND NOTHING ELSE

[median tulip]

In this case it was particularly that he was pulling mobs AWAY from me as I was trying to group them up. None of the DPS understrand frontal-only mitigation, I swear.

[lavish sphinx]

Fuck me, I’ve witnessed dps stacking on Morchie and getting one shot lol

Too real

[restive scroll]

Tell me about it, I had someone pull me an extra pack on first boss everbloom 26, couldn't pack them, not enough kicks

We have to plan stuff >_<

[warm plinth]

Not only that but if you're in like a baby key or something, you have no idea how experienced your tank is. Maybe they're learning and you're stressing them the fuck out because you're pulling more than they're comfortable with

[restive scroll]

Exactly, that sucks as a learning experience

https://www.darklegacycomics.com/392

[torn geyser]

anyone wanna join 20 ataldazar, im doing warrior only group (zug zug time)

[blazing condor]

no game time

also idk what region youre on

[jagged pier]

gratz on being free

[blazing condor]

mom didnt like it though cus i usually boost her through time-walking weeklies

[hollow sun]

The tank is the one that pulls, end of the story unless it's something you really need to time I just let them tank it and die, so they later cry about their overall at the end

[hollow sun]

You play with your mom?

[jagged pier]

then get her to pay your sub

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/832390254895300648.gif?size=96&quality=lossless

[waxen frigate]

Get yourself a sugar daddy

Like @lusty tiger

[blazing condor]

but im out

[jagged pier]

true

[blazing condor]

helpin her learn the game

but now she'll have follower dungeons at least

[hollow sun]

That's actually awesome, my mom smashed my laptop when I was 18 lol

[blazing condor]

thats not as awesome

but kinda based ngl

cant be sitting around playing video games all day when you can make more money for shareholders

[hollow sun]

Sigma male grindset

[blazing condor]

[jagged pier]

how u make money for shareholders when u dont have a job

🤔

[pallid quiver]

you don't need a job to perform acts for companies that provide value

just like how i was part of the custodial staff at the place my mum worked at for no pay from like 8-15 years old or something

[blazing condor]

raising the company's stock by spreading misinformation about competitors online

[jagged pier]

https://tenor.com/view/duck-dance-gif-25202061

[hollow sun]

Gold farming in wow

[median tulip]

Is this some USian live-to-work bullshit?

[pallid quiver]

i did not expect shuba duck from jakey; i'm positive he's never engaged with original source

[jagged pier]

https://tenor.com/view/shrug-gif-25269231

[pallid quiver]

It's more of a comment that I'm surprised how widespread some things I know get

Like when I saw someone at work the other day just casually sketching a fumo without even knowing what Touhou is; world's funny

[blazing condor]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/980120689828847626.gif?size=96&quality=lossless

[warm plinth]

those are certainly all words

[pallid quiver]

all of this is on the precipice of weeb shittery

[lusty grotto]

[lusty tiger]

[blazing condor]

mustve been the wind

[warm plinth]

Can I sleep for like 17 more hours pls

[oak blaze]

Is there a season 3 list of dungeons to run spell block on?

[grim pilot]

Prob all of them except for ad

[lusty grotto]

all of them yes

[oak blaze]

I want to min max my damage but yeah I’m sure there is something in all dungeons to use it on.

[grim pilot]

Running spell block is like 1% damage less? Just be safe and run it everywhere

[grim pilot]

What are u blocking in ad

Genuine question

[strong forum]

spellblock basically does nothing in AD, WCM, BRH and DHT

[lusty grotto]

it does plenty

[strong forum]

there are things you can spellblock in those keys

but nothing of it is relevant

[lusty grotto]

i disagree

[oak blaze]

This is exactly what I’m looking for thank you!

[lusty grotto]

not talking vault keys at all

[strong forum]

yeah me neither

[lusty grotto]

pins

[oak blaze]

Nah vault keys I run mostly dps builds

[oak blaze]

I mean for push

[strong forum]

saurids dont do their toxic dmg anymore, juggernauts augurs and witch doctors dont target tank

[lusty grotto]

stalkers are a big deal though

on reflect gaps

[strong forum]

and the stalkers you can only block the extra poison attack, not the dot itself

the dot is which fucks you hard

not the auto attack part of it

id still run spellblock in AD, cuz its a tossup between TaN and Spellblock

spellblock just allows you to stand in more bullshit if anything

[lusty grotto]

consider me lazy enough not to care about a negligible dps increase

[strong forum]

and tan is only 3k dps

yeah like in s1 TaN was a way bigger deal than it is now

it basically does the same dps as it does in s1

whereas we do like 3x as much dmg

so i still ran spellblock in keys where it technically doesnt do anything

[lusty grotto]

i most def havent run TaN since s1

on key builds at least

[strong forum]

ye

[lusty grotto]

wouldnt 1/2 BB be more of an increase

hmm i dont think you can grab it since group spent caps

oh nvm

i guess you can

since its right beside it lol

[grim pilot]

Yep thats what i meant

[lusty grotto]

why did i think BB was lower down, lol

[grim pilot]

Nothing relevant in ad

Anything that can hurt is entirely physical

[lusty grotto]

a lot of it is kickable and if youre not kicking your group might be dead

but if a fiery enchant goes off, its good to have

[grim pilot]

Well ok but it still doesnt do any damage tho

Not talking +30 bc failing that is basically key over bc group dead

But even +27

[lusty grotto]

it doesnt do any damage anyway

whats your point

[strong forum]

step out of it

if it goes off, and anyone eats it, you die

it hits way too hard

[lusty grotto]

blockable

blockable

literally those first 2 and the 4th

so yes saurids do their toxic dmg still

and yes venom blasts can go on tank

[toxic gyro]

Think they only do toxic part to tanks these days

[lusty grotto]

from witch doctors, so they do still target tank

feel free to look at logs

[strong forum]

in our 26 tank didnt eat a single venom bolt

[lusty grotto]

well coordinated kicks

[lusty grotto]

thats my log

[grim pilot]

Idk man plka didnt run it in 30 forti

If 1 goes off

Reflect

Youre not pulling 300 casters anyway

[lusty grotto]

no shit pika has a team

[strong forum]

in our other 26 tyr also tank never ate a single venom bolt

[grim pilot]

Every player in high keys has a team…

[strong forum]

are you sure you werent the only player alive?

[lusty grotto]

what does that have anything to do with the discussion?

is spell block useful in AD or not

[grim pilot]

You can prepare for that

[lusty grotto]

thats not the point

[grim pilot]

Its not inting to play it but its not the most optimal way

[lusty grotto]

is it or not? people here generally do not have teams

[strong forum]

in a garbage pug 25 AD tank also never ate a single venom bolt

[grim pilot]

In what keys

In 25 it doesnt hurr

I can tell u that

At all

[strong forum]

in yet another garbage pug tank again didnt eat venom bolt

same for the 7th run

not a single bolt on tank

[grim pilot]

So playing defensive to prepare for something that doesnt hurt without it is kinda meaningless

[lusty grotto]

nope not everyone was dead

[toxic gyro]

Bolt will only go on tank if everyone else is dead or pulls them while other players are not engaged

[strong forum]

did you maybe pull the casters early

when nobody was around

cuz then you can force it onto you

and get a juicy double reflect

[toxic gyro]

👆

[mystic yoke]

any tips to help stop spiderlings in BRH killing me?

[lusty grotto]

rageheart

or cocoon

[toxic gyro]

Use rageheart

[strong forum]

any full absorb

prevents the debuffs from applying

[lusty grotto]

and dwarf

[strong forum]

otherwise its run in with SW, get dispelled after SW ends

and then pray for the gods

[toxic gyro]

[strong forum]

that you live until next dispel

[toxic gyro]

Warrior life lol

[lusty grotto]

dispel on cd from heals

usually cd comes up at around 10 stacks

so if your healer is dumb and hes not doing it like he should then youre fucked

the little ones go down fast enough anyway, you'll probably need 3 dispels max

or 1 dwarf and 2 dispels at the most

[grim pilot]

Or if youre not running away from him

And then crying about dispel

[mystic yoke]

don't have this, is this the raid trinket?

[strange lintel]

What tier em I voting for prot

[toxic gyro]

Yes from last boss, but us other said, any full absorb shield will work

[grim pilot]

Whichever you like

[toxic gyro]

Or just have to use your cds properly and hope for the best

[grim pilot]

3 is correct answer

2 is also ok

[strange lintel]

So 3 got it

[timber nest]

1m wipe on mythic smolderon last night 😦

[lusty grotto]

[warm plinth]

Where was the touch of death smh

[timber nest]

We only have a MW and I think they died early

[warm plinth]

Sadge

[teal swift]

Give warrior new skill

UwU Stare of Death

Deals 2m damage if it would kill boss, otherwise you get stunned for 6.9 seconds

[patent osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/eevee-pokemon-cute-gif-8855963

[warm plinth]

I'll stun you for 6.9 seconds

Gottem

Hi Pika

[patent osprey]

Helloage

[warm plinth]

Why are you such a cute son of a bitch

[patent osprey]

Born that way

[teal swift]

Come get your scritches

[modern gazelle]

do you guys use crit or vers phial?

[glacial venture]

where can I get 1h weapon, without changing my loot spec to prot? (Im fury)

over ilv 441

[toxic pewter]

1h weapons still drop when you are in fury loot spec

[vestal moat]

the dreamsurge and timesurge event will get you a guaranteed 450 for maybe 15 mins of work

superbloom and renown weekly event can get you up to 463out of the bag but not guaranteed

[glacial venture]

I have arms spec

[lusty grotto]

you just said you were fury

so if youre fury with arms loot spec, swap it

to.. fury

[sick sentinel]

Set loot to prot for 1h weapons guaranteed and arms for 2h guaranteed. Set to fury if you want a chance at any weapon.

[undone orbit]

which are the best dps trinkets for prot? around 18-22 Keys

I have the one from smolderon on 483 but i have the feeling that it performs not so well on this lower key lvls

this one Cataclysmic Signet Brand

[torn gulch]

that trinket dps depends on how well you can manage stacks

if you can't manage stacks well you're not getting damage out of it

[lusty grotto]

#268491842637660160

[undone orbit]

I have the branch and it slapes XD

[torn gulch]

branch and augury works

[lusty grotto]

sim

or check #268491842637660160

if youre simming for keys do 5 target Patchwerk sim at 1 min or 1.5 mins WITH lust and your team's buffs

[undone orbit]

then signet is always the allstar because stacks never drop it cant be simmed in m+ like this thats why i ask some ppl who tryed some other trinkets for advice

[glacial venture]

the question is, how to get it without changing the loot spec

[lusty grotto]

i mean i use signet

if they are dropping on a non-rp dungeon, thats entirely on you

[lusty grotto]

you cant

change to fury or prot for 1 handers

[sick sentinel]

That is the only answer you're getting.

[lusty grotto]

you cant get 1 hander with arms loot spec

[glacial venture]

arent there any npcs that trade ilv higher than 441?

[lusty grotto]

no?

[sick sentinel]

Not trying to be rude, but that is literally the only way. You can get a 1h crafted other than that

[torn gulch]

you can craft 447 one handers

if you have access to a bs

[glacial venture]

I would like to have better ilv, around 460

[torn gulch]

then farm for it?

[lusty grotto]

so swap to fury loot spec, whats the problem

[torn gulch]

get a 441 veteran weapon and upgrade it

[lusty grotto]

i fail to understand why you cant swap

[modern gazelle]

@lusty grotto you think vers or crit phial? crit phial gives more stats and i could jsut swap a gear piece to have vers so wondering if crit phial may bebetter

[lusty grotto]

we dont use crit phial

[glacial venture]

maybe there are some events that grant me higher ilv on 1h weapon than 441... that was the question

[lusty grotto]

yes, weekly events

[torn gulch]

you know a 441 weapon goes to 463 right?

[lusty grotto]

but you still need to make sure you're either fury or prot loot spec

or else you wont get 1 handers at all

[glacial venture]

tokens to exchange them for items dont require loot spec?

[warm plinth]

Crit phial is Hella dangerous for tanks

[lusty grotto]

bro you just said

[torn gulch]

there are no tokens

[torn gulch]

there is literally nothing

[lusty grotto]

events that GRANT you

event dropped items arent equal to purchased items, those only go to 450

[torn gulch]

you want one handers you have to be in fury or prot loot spec and you cannot get bettern than veteran track weapons from them

[modern gazelle]

thats what i assumed but talking to my co tank he uses them cause its 400 extra stats, you can swap a vers gear to make up the loss of vers, and then you just are getting more stats

[torn gulch]

you want better you go in m+ or raid

[lusty grotto]

[glacial venture]

which one

[warm plinth]

It's not about the loss of vers. The crit phial does a lot of damage to you lol.

[torn gulch]

any

441 veteran weapon

goes to 463

with a combo of whelplings and drake crests

[modern gazelle]

with the alchemy bonus you take half that damage so it ends up not being that much

so im wondering if its worth

[warm plinth]

You get a dot applied to you every time you take 400% of your health in damage, plus there's another dot that randomly applies that does 5% of your hp per second for 5 seconds.

[torn gulch]

you can use a spark to craft a 463 one hander directly

with BS

[lusty grotto]

Dawn its not worth

maybe if youre parsing at best

we've only used tepid versa outside of that

[modern gazelle]

aight just figured id check

[hazy bronze]

Was eye if the storm ever good or was I dumb?

[lusty grotto]

it was okay in s1

for keys

but ultimately we settled on tepid

[torn gulch]

tepid is basic but good

that's what you need

[modern gazelle]

so what is the reason for tepid? cause looking at logs its around 15% uptime on the dot, with crafted ring swapped to vers it would be 200 extra verse almost, then 300 extra crit which also helps parry

so wouldnt the extra verse basically be making up for the dot you get?

[lusty grotto]

twnty

five

percent

of your hp

[glacial venture]

when I set loot spec on arms, can I still roll for 1h weapons in raid?

[lusty grotto]

25%

[toxic pewter]

lol

[lusty grotto]

thats 1/4th of your total hp

[toxic pewter]

what is going on with this loot spec situation

[thin silo]

What extra vers
If you're swapping your ring it means you're giving up another stat for it

[lusty grotto]

NO

[modern gazelle]

its reduced with alchemy buff though and its 5% per tick for 5s which is basically negated by a hot from healer

[toxic pewter]

takes deep breath

[lusty grotto]

we've already answered you 5 times abbba

[glacial venture]

whats the fastest +17 dungeon to farm

[modern gazelle]

you swap off ring from crit/haste to verse/hast, that gives you 885 verse rather than the 745 phial, the crit pot gives you almost 1200 crit rather than the 745 verse, so you actually gain both crit and verse

[lusty grotto]

the alchemy buff meaning you have fully talented decay spec into alchemy?

[modern gazelle]

yeah

[lusty grotto]

do you have that?

[warm plinth]

It's 25% total HP, not per tick. But it's still a lot of damage to be taking at random in any relevant content.

[lusty grotto]

cause its not a just be alchemist thing

yeah fair

[warm plinth]

And again, it has nothing to do with the loss of vers as to why we don't use it. It's because 2% crit isn't worth taking all that extra damage

[torn gulch]

atal or brh

[modern gazelle]

are you accounting for the buff though reducing the damage?

[glacial venture]

can you give me a reliable route for atal?

[modern gazelle]

and the extra verse making up for the damage taken

[lusty grotto]

do you know how much DR is 300 vers?

[torn gulch]

there are routes on keystone guru

[lusty grotto]

spoiler alert: its not a lot

[warm plinth]

Vers DR is all but irrelevant. What's vers file like 750 vers? That's literally like sub-2% vers DR

[glacial venture]

can you pick me one that works? used them and they were bad

[warm plinth]

Phial*

[torn gulch]

all of them work

at +17

on +17 you more or less press W in every dungeon and you do the key

[modern gazelle]

fair, just wonder if its worth testing i may run it a bit and see if i notice the damage on me or not

cause if the damage is negligable then it becomes free extra stats

[thin silo]

If you're giving up 700 vers phial for 800 vers ring, you've only got 100 net vers that you're relying on to soak up that damage

[waxen frigate]

You’re really overselling how much dmg you take

[modern gazelle]

i mean thats not relying on that, you have a healer, a hot will heal that amount of damage

then gaining the extra crit for dmg/parry still

[warm plinth]

I think you're underestimating it. The dot stated in the tool tip isn't the dangerous one

It's the other random one that's dangerous

[modern gazelle]

the 5%/1s for 5s?

[lusty grotto]

kinda feels like youre already set on it Dawn

[warm plinth]

Yes

[lusty grotto]

why force us to change your mind?

just do it and thats that

[warm plinth]

I mean it's your toon. Use it if you want. I'm not your dad

[modern gazelle]

nah im just asking lol that is what this discord is about...

[lusty grotto]

its not really a discussion if youre not willing to budge

[waxen frigate]

Logs im seeing have it doing 1-2k Dps

In raid*

[warm plinth]

A.) Are you looking at both dots

B.) It's not about overall dps. It's about potentially taking 25% of your health in damage over 5 seconds when you're doing an already painful pull.

Dtps*

[waxen frigate]

A) yes

B) insert Gromnak clip

[warm plinth]

Idk what that means

[waxen frigate]

Healer problem

Really though yes there is minor risk to using it

It is minor but it is a risk

Up to you to weigh risk vs reward for your skill and the content you’re doi mg

[modern gazelle]

i am willing to budge i was purely asking about it with the alchemy buff, looks like the top warriors are still using verse so id guess due to our lack of self heal it matters more

[sick sentinel]

I use the crit one all the time never had an issue 🤷‍♂️

[waxen frigate]

It’s also worth noting vers is much cheaper

But also like

[lusty grotto]

like 70% cheaper

[waxen frigate]

Your phial isn’t gonna make your break your game

[waxen frigate]

https://clips.twitch.tv/ExuberantCrepuscularHippoKappaClaus-lOKY6gDV6WKIDN24

[lusty grotto]

corrupting rage is like 350g+ each

r3

i dont even use it on my dps specs

on prog

i use it to parse

[waxen frigate]

Ya I legit just use vers on all my toons because cheap

[lusty grotto]

and sometimes i dont even fucking use it as arms cause arms is squishy

[waxen frigate]

And always decently effective

[sick sentinel]

As a M+er I absolutely love this clip. Why have I never seen this before! Lmao!!!

[lusty grotto]

here are the actual prices NA

[waxen frigate]

Keep out

[lusty grotto]

push yourself out the guild

[sick sentinel]

No I'm coming in with all my greens and complaints

[modern gazelle]

ima stick with verse but talking about price

i will say the withering pots are WAY better than normal dreamwalker ones

[lusty grotto]

they are

[modern gazelle]

so worth the price

[lusty grotto]

im using them

well they arent that expensive

not 300g expensive

[modern gazelle]

157g vs 24g

[lusty grotto]

i bought them at 80g the last time

[waxen frigate]

Ain’t no way

[modern gazelle]

80g wouldve been nice lol but oh well

i buy in 200 stacks and they last a long time

[lusty grotto]

shrug

i have 5 mil

[glacial venture]

https://keystone.guru/route/ataldazar/FuiJahN/raiderio-weekly-route-bunten/1

[waxen frigate]

Alright dude

[glacial venture]

is this a good route?

[lusty grotto]

and i still buy 10 to 15 at a time

[toxic pewter]

same i usually buy 20

[lusty grotto]

get fucked

[toxic pewter]

or 10 if they seem expensive

[modern gazelle]

no always go left

[waxen frigate]

Been a while

[modern gazelle]

right side sucks

[warm plinth]

Not to brag or anything but I ran a dungeon with no phial once. One day you'll all be as good as I am, running dungeons while missing 750 vers. Good luck surviving the damage.

[waxen frigate]

Not to brag or anything but I ran a dungeon with no phial once. One day you'll all be as good as I am, running dungeons while missing 750 vers. Good luck surviving the damage.

[toxic pewter]

XD

[warm plinth]

I always go right in AD

[toxic pewter]

Not to brag or anything but I ran a dungeon with no phial once. One day you'll all be as good as I am, running dungeons while missing 750 vers. Good luck surviving the damage.

[lusty grotto]

i mean i run vault keys without consumes

who the fuck wants to pop consumes on a 18-20

[glacial venture]

?

[warm plinth]

I do

Stop being poor

[lusty grotto]

[modern gazelle]

right gives worse lust timings and the mobs on left arent bad just need kicks, and with a monk using ox statue juggernauts literally do nothing

[waxen frigate]

“Just need kicks” in a pug if you do miss the kicks they are very bad mobs

[modern gazelle]

i mean if you are in a group where they arent kicking then you are in a key level where it doesnt matter ifa kick is missed

[lusty grotto]

to be fair..

[warm plinth]

That is flawed logic sir

[waxen frigate]

It definitely does

[lusty grotto]

left you only absolutely need to kick 2 things: bwonsamdi and enchant

your healer will hate you for the rest though

[waxen frigate]

And then one rat fuck misses and everything goes to hell

[warm plinth]

Mending word

[modern gazelle]

wildfire will kill in higher keys

[lusty grotto]

and you will get probably 1 shot

with a charge after a nuke

[lusty grotto]

thanks i only run 15s

[modern gazelle]

but right is just booty cheeks its not worth it

especially with a monk healer

[warm plinth]

Why would it matter if the healer is a monk

[modern gazelle]

ox statue

for jug bait

[warm plinth]

You know ranged can avoid that right

[modern gazelle]

why avoid when a monk can negate the mech?

[warm plinth]

You don't need a weird strat

[lusty grotto]

royal guards are just huge on fort anyway

thats why they are avoided

[modern gazelle]

its not a weird strat, its the strat?

if you bring monk you use it

[lusty grotto]

you can just dodge charges lol

but sure if you have a MW use it

also left, you absolutely positively need to tunnel colossi down first

or you you will get astro fucked

[modern gazelle]

nah collosal doesnt matter really

[lusty grotto]

their buffs matter

[modern gazelle]

you can take the buff it gets off

purge it

[lusty grotto]

"just have a shaman or dh"

or BE, but good luck with the 2nd colossi cause torrent will be on cd

and hope to fucking christ the DH is specced into their purge

[waxen frigate]

Fotm havocs

[modern gazelle]

i mean im assuming we are talking high keys, if not it doesnt really matter what way you go either way will be fine

[lusty grotto]

im assuming youre running a MW, so dispel isnt available, so lets see

[sick sentinel]

All I'm hearing in any of this is take the meta or don't do it?

[lusty grotto]

HDH, MW, prot war

any other required classes for left side?

oh sorry

shaman/vdh/sp, mw, prot war

[sick sentinel]

Prot pally for the avenging shield kicks

So prot war is out

[waxen frigate]

Havoc has purge tbf

Not just veng

[lusty grotto]

yes

i meant havoc

cause we already have a tank

[modern gazelle]

prot, mw, basically every group will have a havoc, then just whatever, in high keys aug of course but even at 26 i did it no aug and no lust

with pwar, havoc, ret, boomy, and mw

[waxen frigate]

“In high keys aug of course” not in AD lol

[lusty grotto]

ok so great

we shall start recommending left, because those are all a given

[modern gazelle]

literally every top key for AD has aug... what do you mean

[torn gulch]

aug is slowly going out of keys

[modern gazelle]

you still need aug for def on the highest keys besides a few groups who are doing decent without one

[lusty grotto]

monkaHmm

[modern gazelle]

so i could see a meta shift but unlikely anytime soon

[sick sentinel]

Not really I still see augs all the time

In top keys I mean

[lusty grotto]

uh huh

[modern gazelle]

https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankings/season-df-3/all/world/leaderboards-strict

[torn gulch]

yes we'll talk in a couple of weeks

[modern gazelle]

https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankings/season-df-3/ataldazar/world/leaderboards-strict

[torn gulch]

the shift is happening now

slowly

[sick sentinel]

Forsee aug nerfs? Sorry misunderstood last message you had haha

[modern gazelle]

no aug dmg is just ass

and in a lot of keys you dont need the defense aside from the fact its nice, especially since most things are 1 shot

[torn gulch]

yea majority of augs don't know how to dps

[sick sentinel]

Aug is not supposed to do damage though...

[waxen frigate]

Aug is falling off in some keys as they get higher

[waxen frigate]

It’s a Dps spec

[modern gazelle]

its a like 9% dps loss though

[waxen frigate]

And as keys are getting higher there are certain encounters where aug Dps can’t keep up

[lusty grotto]

notice how the majority of these ADs are Fort

[waxen frigate]

And you need it

[lusty grotto]

and not tyr

lets look at AD tyr

cause everyone knows

[waxen frigate]

You still see some augs in AD tyr

But it’s shifting away from that

[modern gazelle]

https://raider.io/mythic-plus-affix-rankings/season-df-3/all/world/leaderboards-strict/tyrannical

all aug except a few groups that do well without

like i said, aug is still a given, but its not absolutely necessary and meta might shift

[lusty grotto]

yeah good luck doing volkaal with just about any aug

you better pump as a tank, and your heals as well

[sick sentinel]

Volkaal is rough with Aug

[sick sentinel]

Damn I never knew that, I assumed the dps they fed the others made up for it.

[lusty grotto]

31 top end vs 30

hmm, i wonder why

do you know how much more damage a 31 has over a 30

and hp?

its obvious

[modern gazelle]

Not after nerfs

[sick sentinel]

Ah so blizz is going to make them useless. Guess it's good for balancing the game.

[lusty grotto]

the nerfs happened weeks ago

what are you on about

[sick sentinel]

I say that with the greatest sarcasm

[lusty grotto]

k

[modern gazelle]

Yes and augs have been dps loss since? @sick sentinel thought they weren’t and so I explained since nerfs they have been a loss

Good for defense but a dps loss especially on ST where it matters like in dungeons with MC like WM

[sick sentinel]

I didn't know the nerfs had already hit. I didn't even look at the evokers on the notes.

[lusty grotto]

absolutely

any boss with dps targetted totems are rough with augs

volkaal, witches, soulbound goliath

ill keep repeating what ive been mentioning here, i think augs were a great addition to the game

but

their defensive output is the problem

not to mention the roar

cauterize, roar that aoe soothes and extends ccs, eons with shield, rescue walls

and lets not forget zephyr

augs should have been simply a dps buffer like in other games, maybe with just 1 defensive group buff

it would have been easier to balance too

and maybe transform ebon might into a % dmg increase instead of stats so they evenly buff classes

instead of doing shit all for classes that dont scale as much with primaries

and wildly buffing the ones that do

cough like WWs

the biggest problem blizzard right now has, and that's obviously after the fact that they have improved leaps in terms of fast balance changes

[sick sentinel]

I was just sad that the "black dragon" spec was not a tank. I know lore wise it didn't make sense, but I was still hopeful. I think augmentation is a fun spec but classifying it as a dps was the worst idea they made.

[lusty grotto]

is the fact that they are looking at balancing through damage and healing output

and not what classes bring to the table aside from throughput

[lusty grotto]

disagree

[sick sentinel]

Context of why?

[lusty grotto]

dps buffer supports have been dps classes in other games since time immemorial, so their dps role is fine

bards and dancers in ffxiv are dps

etc etc

hell bards in everquest1 were dps

enchanters were dps

etc etc

[sick sentinel]

I thought they were support roles?

[lusty grotto]

what made you think that

[modern gazelle]

Augs would’ve been fine if they also released new support classes with it at least. It being THE ONLY one makes it too Op too

[sick sentinel]

Not sure why I thought they were support roles lol guess that's just how I saw then all the time.

[lusty grotto]

well thats just language

people can call them support

they just arent flagged as support in the game

and at least in xiv, they certainly dont get called support

[sick sentinel]

Yea that is something I thought too, wasn't enhancement shaman supposed to be the original idea of "support"?

[lusty grotto]

but in eq1, it could have happened sure

[sick sentinel]

Ah OK my bad lol

[lusty grotto]

i dont even remember if there was a support role in DAoC

but there were certainly buffers

to the point people botted them

same as in eq1

botted as in 2boxing

not as in botting as it is today

[sick sentinel]

What of they changed the aug to a tank where it slightly buffs the party that could be hard though if they do to much with it

But at least at that point they aren't dps classified they still provide some type of support? Idk maybe I'm going to far out of the box at this point.

[lusty grotto]

i already said what they need to do

change ebon might to % dmg instead of stats, rebuff it, and remove everything that is defensive except for zephyr

thats it

it will compete with other dps provided they balance numbers well but not provide such a defensive increase that they are still used at a dps loss

guaranteed the top teams will probably rethink if they use them or not more heavily

and that will mean the rest will follow

[pulsar bobcat]

I'm pretty sure this is a no but do we use slam/whirlwind as prot?

[lusty grotto]

you are correct

on your first assumption

[grave haven]

if they removed defensives and stats increase and just leave amp dmg healers that can convert dps in hps will be in major advantage

[lusty grotto]

thats true

[grave haven]

they released a bomb and is so hard to fix without a full rework

[lusty grotto]

well i dont consider it a bomb

[lavish sphinx]

What about 6 person groups?

[lusty grotto]

that would be it was just a failure

[grave haven]

yea that feels more like it

[lusty grotto]

but its not a failure

its being used

either way convertaing raw dps into hps isnt such a big deal to balance

[grave haven]

but you cant balance things around an evoker bc when u dont have one you it will be unbalaced again

so you just gotta balance the dude

[lusty grotto]

but see

does disc and mw have a huge advatange on dmg amps?

because we have lots this season

and in raid

[grave haven]

disc preists dont have advantage like in the last boss from everbloom?