a well played signet
#protection
toxic pewter
what are the best arms trinkets anyway
why is augury not that good for arms in multi target apparently
strong forum
cuz DPS specs like stats alot
strong forum
yes
strong forum
signet, sandglass, pips, might of the ocean are good trinkets
ember is also really good
strong forum
come back when you do over 300k in tott without aug
toxic pewter
i gave away my might of the ocean for some reason
strong forum
proof
strong forum
without ozumat
grim pilot
Uhh lemme check my logs but I doubt I did over 300 on logs
grim pilot
Fck legendry higher than dn
charred ivy
weew with legendary
strong forum
yeah im not cheating i swear
charred ivy
xD
strong forum
im just that good
not me only barely losing to crit in overall
despite getting over 25k dps for free from legendary
grim pilot
I did around
290 on 25 tyra
On details
Bc logs dont consider reflect
285-290
My forti is super outdated so idk how much I can do there
grim pilot
Dw im not that good ask @lament musk for some logs
Tell him to play arms in high forti 😠
strong forum
i did compare our logs
charred ivy
is arms concidered better then fury atm for m+?
median tulip
For M+ both are largely considered to be "lol, you don't bring any useful utility"
strong forum
like i looked at this log right
and compared rotations
cuz i oversend execute and undersend OP and MS during sweeping windows
is what i mostly noticed
grim pilot
Higher than crit 
Not legendary at all
Shh
Nobody has to check breakdown
Wont bring any good
strong forum
we also desynced CDs
cuz i got 1shot on first pull
and then had different CD timings
which made for a better timer cuz we didnt delete the same pulls in 2seconds
grim pilot
Tbf
If u died on 1st pull
Theres also rp post 1st boss
Etc
Like 45 sec of nothing
grim pilot
A
strong forum
i won on spiders
ah nvm he didnt send on spiders
legendary bad btw
only 1-2% gain
oh we actually did send CDs at the same time
echo egret
What causes the small "intervals" mobs to spawn in Rise, in the area near 2nd boss ?
dusky canopy
What causes the small "intervals" mobs to spawn in Rise, in the area near 2nd bo...
the big rings that target people
any of the intervals inside the ring when it bursts become active
echo egret
Aaaaah - and it seems they do enough damage that I need to tank them.
strong forum
What causes the small "intervals" mobs to spawn in Rise, in the area near 2nd bo...
they just spawn on timer, so that you can clear the sand even if you dont have enough range to pull from far
echo egret
My mistake it was in Fall but someone above replied.
muted nexus
476 gholak vs 483 splitter
does the splitter bleed have intrinsic value or does it not count towards war bleeds
muted nexus
gholak either impresses me or is a meme on details
i have yet to use splitter, i might run it a couple dungeons to see if it shows up
grim pilot
Idk it does avg 1.5-3% for me
muted nexus
it's usualy between .8 and 2.5%
uneven mason
the proc on Gholak uses 0 stat budget
grim pilot
And on iridik it pops off
muted nexus
but prot also goes brr in general so 1% is not little
oh yeah i guess i never noticed splitter has 0 secondaries. oops
grim pilot
There’s a reason why 483 gholak is bis till u get mythic gholak
uneven mason
There’s a reason why 483 gholak is bis till u get mythic gholak
Basically only thing that beats even a normal Gholak is a bigger Gholak
grim pilot
Prob 489 weaps beat it
grizzled nova
Prob 489 weaps beat it
bout the same in aoe, normal gholak still better in st than any non-gholak weapon
grim pilot
Kek
torn gulch
Prob 489 weaps beat it
normal gholak beats all 489 weapons in St except servant cleaver and all of them in aoe
blazing condor
time to top dps parses
left basalt
I just watched a holy priest win augury
that happened in a pug yesterday as well for me
they must be loot speccing shadow?
median tulip
Yes
left basalt
i did the same with prot playing fury to yoink the heroic weapon 🤷♂️
median tulip
Because a: Blossom of Amirdrassil isn't particularly good
b: They can roll for it as off-spec anyway and probably get it because there's only 4 healers
left basalt
shadow loot spec disc because fuck you got mine
median tulip
This is just a facet of the fact that the tank and healer trinkets have the same drop rate as the DPS one, but far far less demand
left basalt
our guild run the tanks forgot to go prot so all the dps needed rageheart and the "alt" won it and it was an ilvl upgrade 
no trades for you kek
median tulip
Final boss trinkets should be an all-classes token IMO
left basalt
we have 15 people needing on augury still im just waiting for vault at this point
bring back personal loot
or the coins however that worked in MOP its been a long time i dont remember
dusky canopy
its essentially the same
you just get to see the rolls
instead of them happening in the background
left basalt
at least that doesn't feel terrible
violet flume
was wondering why this warrior was takijng insane damage on pulls i feel i take 0
.. 20% shieldblock uptime and 24% ignore pain
fair elm
Is there a way to seein details how "well" you're mitigating damage?
or is that more a WCL thing?
violet flume
you should have 99-100% shieldblock uptime for one
really high ignore pain too, idk what the usual numbers are but i have 88% 86% on my last 2 runs
fair elm
you should have 99-100% shieldblock uptime for one
where can you see that in details? buffs?
violet flume
with that you should be good, rest is not turning your back to mobs and using cooldowns
yeah you can check in buff uptime
youll see it like that when you mouseover
fair elm
So I've been using a "crutch" of a macro because I was like "well I want shield block up everytime I slam for damage so..."
violet flume
heavy repercussions is guaranteed 100% uptime
fair elm
So I've been using a "crutch" of a macro because I was like "well I want shield ...
#showtooltip Shield Slam
/cast Shield Block
/cast Shield Slam
🤡
I imagine that's the delta in my shield block uptime
fair elm
yes, it's bad
violet flume
hevy repercussions adds 2sec to shieldblock every slam
fair elm
I've been using it this expansion and it's been largely ok
median tulip
```
#showtooltip Shield Slam
/cast Shield Block
/cast Shield Slam
```
🤡
You shouldn't use that as your main Shield Slam macro; you should only use that as a replacement for your Shield Block button (so it snipes resets)
dusky canopy
if youre not doing content where you will fall over when shield block expires then i guess you do tyou
but its bad practice
fair elm
This is me last night: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/vt1mRMfjCFPDkQYT#view=rankings&boss=-2&difficulty=0&wipes=2 -- I'm "Atheros"
dusky canopy
should learn how to do it properly
fair elm
100%
We're only a Heroic guild so this is just me being lazy and trying to brain-off damage (mind you, I probably still hurt my damage by overcapping shield block uptime with this)
fair elm
hevy repercussions adds 2sec to shieldblock every slam
yeah, I used to run this but -- the damage from into the fray >>>
lusty grotto
This is me last night: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/vt1mRMfjCFPDkQYT#vie...
this doesnt show anything
and its gonna hurt you REALLY BAD in ST
that macro
fair elm
throughput wise or tankiness?
fair elm
right now it appears to be gimping me only slightly (my argument being: your "REALLY BAD" is hyperbolic)
ITF
lusty grotto
how many melee do you have
without 5x ITF, youre gonna have gaps
and if youre casting SB on SS, youre not gonna be able to get them back while youre not actively tanking
can you link a proper log
fair elm
well you still want SB up full time for SS damage
that is the log?
it's every fight of the night
lusty grotto
ah its on rankings for some reason
fair elm
thats bad
doesn't make sense -- because my uptime for that fight is 95%
same for council
lusty grotto
this one is ok
cause spell block
it makes sense
cause you arent blocking the right hits
thats what gaps do
fair elm
Your assertion is that my gaps fall disproportionately during my times of tanking?
lusty grotto
you are receiving unblocked melee htis
therefore
you took several hits in your gaps
my recommendation is stop being lazy and use SB like its supposed to
fair elm
I guess what I'm saying is -- I don't understand the discreperiency in the data. Why would I have a higher % taken of unblocked melee hits while having a drastically higher shield block uptime?
lusty grotto
the percent is SB uptime when youre getting hit
not overall
there's a difference
with ITF, there's no room for error
with HR you might get away with that weird macro that we dont really like
solemn current
Macro is a bad habit but the increased unblocked hits could also just be as simple as turning his back during boss movement/mechanics
fair elm
fwiw I'm not trying to defend it -- i agree it should (and will) go away
fair elm
Macro is a bad habit but the increased unblocked hits could also just be as simp...
Yeah that's what I'm trying to sus out rn
Because it seems like even with the noticable downtime in shield block, that seems way higher than I would imagine
I'm seeing really high swings in the data fwiw, and not sure why
Looking at the top 200~ Heroic Gnarlroot kills
for prot warriors
solemn current
Check the log and determine if the gaps line up to times where you had threat would be a start. Melees aren’t constant and all it takes is a tiny gap to receive an unblocked hit. Especially when you consider that you’re already parrying/dodging some
fair elm
the percent is SB uptime **when youre getting hit**
ah, i found it
It seems to be non-gnarlroot adds that happen
Presumably I'm running like a monkey
When filtered by Gnarlroot
lusty grotto
this is a lot of mental gymnastics for justifying the use of a bad macro
fair elm
fair elm
this is a lot of mental gymnastics for justifying the use of a bad macro
again, I'm not defending the macro -- I'm agreeing it's demonstrably bad
But the discreperiency you found was higher than expected
So I wanted to dig
fair elm
And yeah, the push back of "ZOMG ITS AWFUL" seems to be hyperbolic at a cursory glance
solemn current
Ultimately regardless of the issue the macro is still bad practice and will do more harm than good so what’s the point. Logic can dictate its usefulness to where data is irrelevant.
lusty grotto
as soon as you drop haste, or blizzard decides to remove the so many SB supporting talents we have, youre gonna have huge issues
fair elm
as soon as you drop haste, or blizzard decides to remove the so many SB supporti...
I agree 100%
solemn current
As an example you’re at the end of a pack in keys and you blow all your shield block stacks even though you’ve got time until next with shield block duration being wasted. Walk into next pack with scarce charges leading to downtime mid pack.
jagged ferry
Man trying to pug 25 keys as a warrior just sucks haha, need to re roll to pally or DH.
solemn current
100% uptime is more difficult across a 30min dungeon than a 2min boss fight if you aren’t managing your shield block for downtime.
fair elm
100%. I don't really fuck with keys. The engagement me and my guild have is just raiding. Norm -> Heroic AOTC -> vibe until next patch
solemn current
Not difficult to be optimal though. Better to create the good habit than to have to change the bad habit later because your goals or content change. I’ve seen too warriors with bad uptime in keys. It’s a travesty. Annoying to heal and most pugs couldn’t keep me alive if I did the same to them lol.
But ultimately you do you
fair elm
My only pushback on that is by any measurable metric I've seen this is within 5% of optimal. It's mildly suboptimal
My block uptime is 100% on bosses in the log I posted. So me being a chimp and turning my back on adds, sure -- that's a git gud sort of thing
solemn current
You’re looking at it in terms of a short boss fight in easy content. Homie is referring to the how bad it is when it actually matters and when you’re actually in danger.
fair elm
For sure -- in keys, I agree. Don't mistake what I'm saying: I'm not going to bat for it. I did a log review with someone here and they were like "bruh, this is lazy" rofl
solemn current
I’ve seen warriors tank heroic with 20% shield block uptime. Doesn’t make shield block useless it just means the gear is carrying the content.
uneven mason
I’ve seen warriors tank heroic with 20% shield block uptime. Doesn’t make shield...
gear *Healers
warm plinth
My block uptime is 100% on bosses in the log I posted. So me being a chimp and t...
You are getting hit in the back 100%; not sure if that was already confirmed or not since I cba reading the entire thing. This is with the SB aura filter active. The only explanation for not blocking with this filter being active is either the ability/attack is not blockable, or you have your back turned (which since this is melees, it's the latter).
fair elm
You are getting hit in the back 100%; not sure if that was already confirmed or ...
Yeah thanks. This was more or less confirmed but I definitely need to solve it.
And stop using that macro
warm plinth
strong forum
ill take it as a compliment
worthy briar
YEET just broke 3k the grind to 3500 next
torn gulch
44% crit in battle stance
i love parry
modern gazelle
whats the SB uptime with ITF instead of HR for M+?
torn gulch
while it will be harder you should get close to 100%
you'll just need more attention with block management
strong forum
if you get alot of haste its practically 100%
so like the closer you are to 7k the safer your block uptime is
if youre at around 5400 haste youll experience some neglible downtime of SB with ITF
and around that haste is when ITF value just catapults ahead
and more is just better
strong forum
i updated the pins a small amount
dusky ravine
does anyone know where does protective flames comes from? i know it was a bastion covenant thing in SL but did they turn it to hidden passive now or is it in the talent tree and im just tripping?
lusty grotto
head enchant
dusky ravine
...... ofcourse the 1 thing i didnt check. cheers.
blazing condor
its always the last place you look
dusky ravine
as always
tho blizz dont make it easy to recognize as it literally just says incandescent essence
warm plinth
tho blizz dont make it easy to recognize as it literally just says incandescent ...
My favorite part is that they are called different things in logs and in details. In Details it's incandescent essence; in logs it's called Tindral's Fowl Fantasia 🙂
blazing condor
its to keep you on your toes mentally
warm plinth
(on hunter, not war)
You know what does that is this shit
this looks different because we have a different number of pets
🙃
dusky ravine
ahh blizz the third rate indie studio strikes again
dusky ravine
god forbid they do something else.
modern gazelle
@strong forum @dusky canopy thanks
azure smelt
Whats your guys plan for the sand room in rise? Once spell block is down those little guys eat thru my hp like its nothing
past grove
What to do with the big pull of dogs in throne.. That bleed hurts! Cant racial it off as not a dwarf
toxic pewter
group needs to just blow the pack up
past grove
So blame the dps, agreed!
Took 12mil damage from the bleed during that pull before dying. Popped absolutely everything but bleeding for 800k a sec at the end
blazing condor
Cant evokers cauterize it?
warm plinth
yeah
waxen frigate
Cant evokers cauterize it?
but will they
pallid quiver
get 4 evokers, profit
chilly brook
Cant evokers cauterize it?
Yep and they can use it on the jagged nettles on triad in WCM
waxen frigate
evokers can do many things
opaque quest
95% of evoker dont track bleeds cause healer job
waxen frigate
whether or not your average pug evoker will do them
opaque quest
Im a dps
waxen frigate
doubtful
opaque quest
Not my problem
Whenever i did Ulda with an Evoker i asked pre emptively if they track bleeds. 95% of augs and devs said no
waxen frigate
lmao
i did a 25 tyr ulda last season
get to second boss
healer dies to bleed
"evoker???"
"i dont have it talented"
💀
aug players are the stupidest motherfuckers in the game
opaque quest
Its rough. DPS are dumb as fuck in general. Evokers are too. In this case - and - isnt + sadly 
opaque quest
I needed the talent point for 0.2% more dps
opaque quest
Ye fair. But i see dps without kick talented in M+ more often than i like too
lusty grotto
lol
i just 4 manned a 18 eb
from the start on my alt DH
hunter says
brb 1 sec after first pull
warm plinth
<https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/9WA72ZfajBVNnHYJ#fight=last> fucking ez
log is private noob
lusty grotto
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/a:26xHJywCDTfaYWdP#fight=3&type=casts&sourc...
what are these talents lol
warm plinth
dude it got worse the more i looked.
pallid quiver
On the bright side, he only wasted 32 rage
So I've seen a lot worse
Even though if you were in key, you could see this guy do his rotation incorrectly
warm plinth
It's hard to have rage to waste when you're spamming Ignore Pain and pressing Shield Slam half as much as you should be.
valid sleet
Hello friends! I main fury, but like to tank in M+ here and there. How bad is it to be fully gemmed and enchanted in mastery which is what I want for fury. Probably never tanking anything higher than a 20. Am I super screwing myself or is it not too bad?
I know I see Mr. "Stats Don't Matter" up there lol
Is that a meme, or pretty accurate?
timber nest
Hello friends! I main fury, but like to tank in M+ here and there. How bad is it...
Stats are pretty equal defensively. Mastery is great if you’re tanking 5+ targets for an extending period of time. 20s are a joke so@you should be good
valid sleet
Stats are pretty equal defensively. Mastery is great if you’re tanking 5+ target...
epic legitness. Thank you!
pallid quiver
Hello friends! I main fury, but like to tank in M+ here and there. How bad is it...
You'd mostly be losing out on damage, and it's even less of a damage difference that it would be for most DPS specs, iirc
It's not like any stats are bad for Prot as long as you have stats
valid sleet
Sweet!
jagged pier
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/a:26xHJywCDTfaYWdP#fight=3&type=casts&sourc...
WW is 360 degrees
pale karma
WW is 360 degrees
Innovation
opaque quest
WW is 360 degrees
So what youre saying is we shouldnt use revenge and only WW because of the 360 degrees
jagged pier
I just stated a fact i didnt say anything, didnt say anything about what u should and shouldnt do that is up to u
pale karma
If you use WW you can keep threat on the mobs hitting your back.
opaque quest
I just stated a fact i didnt say anything, didnt say anything about what u shoul...
All i can hear is use WW cause 360 degrees
jagged pier
🤷
opaque quest
If you use WW you can keep threat on the mobs hitting your back.
Also, if you keep mobs behind you you dont need to spend rage on CB and have more for WW
Its all coming together
jagged ferry
Any other prot warriors struggling to pug keys higher then 3.2? I feel like I just don’t get invited at this point
Everyone just wants prot pals or veng
Sadge
ashen coral
Hello, would dying on purpose to proc scale at the same time as lust be a good idea or not worth it ? (when you don’t need it for defensive purpose)
strong forum
Everyone just wants prot pals or veng
DW even @mellow bridge with like 3.5k score doesn't get invited to keys this week anymore as VDH
opaque quest
Getting invited into keys as warr sucks
Last season with bear was the same
3k IO declined for 20s 
Its the same ppl that N E E D A U G for 17 weekly
mellow bridge
Atm I'm just pugging for fun
Might try and get a group going with guildies later in the season
Can't really tell you if it's hard or not to find a push group because I don't really look for em lmao
strong forum
Yeah but does he have 🟠 🪓
timber nest
thoughts on 489 tier helm over 489 council helm
timber nest
+500
strong forum
Enchant boots!
timber nest
oh well
grim pilot
Yeah but does he have 🟠 🪓
I cant wait to get it
potent anvil
Tbf I think des is NA anyway
NA, and retired 
grim pilot
Somewhere between last and 2nd last week of the tier
robust surge
afflicted
lusty grotto
Can't really tell you if it's hard or not to find a push group because I don't r...
i was laughing at you wrecking some kids with bad vdh talent ideas yesterday on naowh's stream
warm plinth
NA, and retired <:seramore:917663298869145640>
terse spoke
hey, im kinda new to tanking and i remember i found a really good like google sheeth, with tank notes for each boss, and now i cant find it, do any of you know any similar, basicly i just want clear tank notes when to taunt etc for each boss
lusty grotto
well theres a reflectable/blockable sheet in the pins
but idk if thats what you refer to
terse spoke
nah basicly just for the raid bosses tactics, just thought id swing here and see if anyone knew, i know all tacs around as dps and heal but a little bit uncertain for tank was just nice to have on my second moniter when tanking
lusty grotto
mythictrap is pretty good
urban portal
dbm comes with a tank swap
novel temple
Does def stance show it being 15%/10% sometimes as a bug?
pale karma
Random question - in throne of the tides before the first boss, there is the pack of a dozen beasts. I don't typically have trouble pulling them separately between between the other packs - around the 10 oclock mark - but the last couple times they've chained pulled the side group. When I taunt one of them, sometimes the rest of the pack aggros immediately and other times there's a long delay. Wondering if that's why. Any suggestions to avoid that?
frosty mango
Random question - in throne of the tides before the first boss, there is the pac...
The aggro radius is wide, if you are too far to the right or left it will pull
Any reason why you don’t just pull them with the right or left pack?
It’s a cleaner pull and the l/r packs really have no dangerous mechanics
uneven mason
It’s a cleaner pull and the l/r packs really have no dangerous mechanics
This
the dogs are the dangerous part
pallid quiver
Meanwhile, the DPS who focus the other adds:
pale karma
Well with pugs those side packs alone can be lethal if interupts are not on point
I've tried it couple times on 22 and both not timed it by about a minute but lot sof deaths
rigid shoal
I am a returning player, havent played since wod, trying to get into tanking. It seems to me that i dont really need slam whirlwind or rend on my bar (i apply rend with thunderclap). Is this correct? What is even the point of whirlwind and slam, does other warr specs use them?
pale karma
I am a returning player, havent played since wod, trying to get into tanking. It...
Correct. Other specs.
teal swift
I am a returning player, havent played since wod, trying to get into tanking. It...
"flavour" other specs use them rotationally, you can use them as prot at a performance loss.
For "class thematics"
raw parcel
I do think they ought to remove dead buttons, feels like a trap for new people.
jagged ferry
Is 7% Vers too low?
I still have Vers missive on cape, thinking of removing for crit
or haste
urban portal
I do think they ought to remove dead buttons, feels like a trap for new people.
they already pruned it a while back
if they dont want to keep pruning so be it
and sometimes "dead button" arent THAT dead
warriors just has the most of them
teal swift
they already pruned it a while back
Then people raged so they unpruned it
Now we have detrimental buttons
People raged for years about the pruned talents, now we got this pile of shit
Yay we can make 1-2 choices
Just like before
Except now it's actually harder for casuals to make builds that are passable
So people either pilot the shittiest trees
Or they copy from icy veins
Walk around valdrakken and view people's talents
teal swift
And see just how cool these new trees are 🎨
Yep, it felt like players didn't have agency or choice.
So we got dumb trees
That have the same or less choice than before
LOL
And lots of pitfalls
hazy totem
Is there a warrior only guild somewhere?
urban portal
That have the same or less choice than before
the upside is that you can add "legendaries" without borrowed power
rogue has like 3 builds
dh can do some cool stuff too
its just dps warriors that suck nuts
median tulip
The fundamental problem with the Warrior talents is that Avatar is in the wrong place
lusty grotto
and shockwave
lyric cape
I'd say shockwave is also not in a good spot
median tulip
It's a mandatory pick for all 3 Warrior specs, and the fact that it's a tier 3 talent immediately removes half of the options
lusty grotto
both of those are weirdly placed
median tulip
Shockwave... yeah, ok
lusty grotto
but yeah avatar is the worse one
since dps dont really go shockwave except for keys
median tulip
Avatar should be roughly where Intimidating Shout is
teal swift
the upside is that you can add "legendaries" without borrowed power
In reality it was basically
Let's add random effects from legion, BFA, and SL lol
median tulip
Ravager should be in the class tree
teal swift
So now every class just has covenant abilities and artifact abilities
And some legion legendaries and some sl.lefendaries, and some bfa heart of azwroth shit
Rather than being innovative and interesting
They filled the tree with innovative and interesting shit
They already did the last decade lul
urban portal
In reality it was basically
Let's add random effects from legion, BFA, and SL l...
It’s solid, and if they want to add some powerful stuff it’s cool
And ppl ask for it too
teal swift
Yeah, I just wish they made them all baseline
lusty grotto
you mean like spell block?
median tulip
The 4 options in Tier 3 of the Class tree should be Thunderous Roar, Spear of Bastion, Ravager and Banner
teal swift
And gave of 1 in 3 again
urban portal
People begged for odyns to come back
lusty grotto
such a silly rant
teal swift
I don't like the big trees
Go around inspect random people in town see how much mileage these trees are giving.
lusty grotto
who gives a fuck
urban portal
The 4 options in Tier 3 of the Class tree should be Thunderous Roar, Spear of Ba...
Bad take
teal swift
It's either copy paste or insanely bad
urban portal
I don’t even want roar and spear to exist
teal swift
Yeah, but it's still a point to be made
lusty grotto
am i?
teal swift
And could be made better
lusty grotto
thats not your point at all
teal swift
Idk, you're having stronger reaction than I am
lusty grotto
are you sure about that?
urban portal
Warlock spriest is quite good
urban portal
iPhone has blue jelly
lusty grotto
the warrior tree is not bad, its inflexible, there were bad trees at the start of DF
druid was one of them
if we define inflexible as bad, then sure i agree
or w/e the right word for not flexible is, its late
teal swift
Yeah, to me, the trees are just the illusion of choice, where you copy icyveins or you try to make your own, and it feels bad.
I like bastion spear, idk how tf to get it
Without Inting really hard
median tulip
the warrior tree is not bad, its inflexible, there were bad trees at the start o...
I would counter: Our tree is bad because it is inflexible. We simply lucked into having one basically ok build (with a couple of minor variations) so we don't look as bad as .0 drood did
lusty grotto
right, thats what i mean by defining bad as being inflexible
and i do agree with that
urban portal
My only problem is the dogshit blockade talents
The 1% stats
And 5% damage talents
urban portal
Those are so obviously blockades
median tulip
Almost all of the classes have some filler
lusty grotto
they are minuscule for a whole talent, and every class has them
teal swift
right, thats what i mean by defining bad as being inflexible
You articulate your points better than me.
urban portal
Whereas most other trees don’t make it so obvious
teal swift
But I also agree.
I feel like I have minimal choices
And have to just go with copy paste build
And If I want to make choices to grab the nodes that look good to me
I'm quite far from optimal
urban portal
Arms has like 3 builds that all have pros and cons
And that tree is actually dogshit
median tulip
One thing that does really annoy me about the Protection tree specifically, is how few points there are in the first section. We have 10 points total there, of which you have to pick 8. Most other specs have 14 above that first gate.
urban portal
Yeah not a lot of choices up top for sure
median tulip
That in and of itself is incredibly choice-limiting
urban portal
The top part is just set in stone
median tulip
Yeah
urban portal
But that’s a warrior exclusive issue
Warrior is just cucked
All 3 specs have locked in first gate
lusty grotto
id say beside being non-flexible, they just have really weird talents in there that should just be baseline
like ber rage
lusty grotto
they just cut and pasted that in there to have a slot
yeah that one can stay as a talent for sure
median tulip
Also a lot of the pathways in the mid section are totally redundant. There are 5 pathways leading to Shield Wall, but only the one from Rend matters because Rend is mandatory
ironically ofc it's mandatory, and then we never actually press it
hazy totem
Brah I'm doing normal runs to get to 70. I can't die. I chain pull everything and it's so fun. Is it like this end game too?
median tulip
Only in Black Rook Hold
teal swift
id say beside being non-flexible, they just have really weird talents in there t...
Single minded fury needs to be baseline change my mind
Even with the like 2-3 talents it's worse than titan grip
And has huge cost to get 
Why is titan grip baseline but smf isnt
Shit should be a choice talent
hazy totem
Only in Black Rook Hold
😦
median tulip
Single minded fury needs to be baseline change my mind
SMF and TG should be a choice node inside the first gate and SMF should be buffed considerably
median tulip
No
median tulip
Titan's Grip was a mistake TBH. I said it would all end in tears when they implemented it back at the start of WotLK
median tulip
It was always horrendous for balance
teal swift
It just fucks with smf
Balance wise it's not bad
Just titrate the reduction on it
And it have big stamina
worldly slate
So Im wanting to tank as an off-spec. I have a sheild/1H so Im technically ready to do it, but In incredibly nervous on not fucking it up.
Suggestions on what content I could as like….get my toes wet before jumping into the pool
median tulip
So Im wanting to tank as an off-spec. I have a sheild/1H so Im technically ready...
Run LFR for practice. But mostly just dive into M+.
worldly slate
Thats what I figured, ok, well then I know what Im doing after I sleep…ish XD
median tulip
Thats what I figured, ok, well then I know what Im doing after I sleep…ish XD
Warrior tanking isn't actually complicated. Just get too angry to die.
worldly slate
Sounds similar to dpsing then ahahah
median tulip
Prioritize Rage builders over everything else, Spend like crazy into Shield Block and Ignore Pain, don't get hit in the back or without Shield Block, and send Avatar on cooldown.
worldly slate
Okie dokie
echo egret
What's the best way to handle the trio of casters before 3rd boss in Everbloom ? Speaking fortified 22+.
blazing condor
interrupts, spell reflect
and defensives if needed
that pack is mostly just coordinating interrupts so shit doesnt one shot your team
pale karma
Poor interupts by the team is what usually kills 22+ keys
blazing condor
generally pugs will throw all their stuns/interrupts on the first casts
i usually just hold my CC a bit so casts actually get interrupted
hazy totem
So how good is prot at endgame?
Cause what i enjoy is chain pulling
And pushing the party to the limit
blazing condor
good enough to have done 29s already
could do top keys even as well but those top-pushing teams dont run pwarr
teal swift
So how good is prot at endgame?
Define good
Is there a less popular tank than prot warrior?
hazy totem
Can you do chain pulls? I mean reliably.
teal swift
Like, all tanks are fine at doing almost all of the game.
CE ✅
2-3 key levels within bestclass
teal swift
Can you do chain pulls? I mean reliably.
Yes
How high are the keys you are looking to do?
hazy totem
Depends when I'll get tired of the game this time 😛
teal swift
What is the highest key you've done this season
Or any season really
Prot warrior will be good in almost all cases
hazy totem
I'm just checking out the classes rn. Not pushing any keys
teal swift
If you aren't realistically going to be pushing into high keys of 26+
Then pick whatever works. Prot warrior is fine.
If you're looking to push world first keys, just metaslave and save yourself the headache
Otherwise, play prot war cause you love prot war
It's as good as anything else within a few key levels of the best
But if you're in the 23-25 range, chain pulling on a prot warrior is fine
Critcake gets some pretty nutty results
In lower keys with chain pulling in low 20s
teal swift
I mean healers whining about mana are kinda dense
Just drink
Tanks don't need healers for most pulls
They are there mainly for chip damage and the dps
If the DPS kick and stop
You can manage a lot of pulls without the healer babysitting you
The things that kill tanks in keys do like unhealable amounts of damage
And you should just use a CD there
But yeah, you're durable, no tank currently needs to really concern themselves with what the healer is doing
chilly brook
Just drink
So true
teal swift
teal swift
https://tenor.com/view/rocky-if-he-dies-gif-24288315
Need more Chad healers like this
queen hemlock
what addons do people use to log?
queen hemlock
ert?
teal swift
It still responds to /ert atleast lmao
queen hemlock
ah aye
echo egret
Wait a second, Iced Phial of Corrupting Rage breaks invis potions ?
forest yacht
if shield block already makes me block everything
surreal kindle
What's the current soft haste cap for protection?
toxic pewter
if shield block already makes me block everything
Mastery gives us the chance to Critical Block and it also gives us more attack power.
idle quartz
Hey guys! I got a Gholak in the first week of the season and I’ve been using it ever since! It’s Only a 476 though. However I noticed while simming, that there aren’t any weapons that match its DPS, even all the way up to 489.
I’m aware that the weapon is good - but is it SO good that a 476 > 489 of any other weapon? Or does it sound like I’m simming incorrectly?
pallid quiver
it's a little busted, yes
It doesn't sacrifice any stat budget for the proc like most proc weps, and the proc is decent, too
so as soon as you get a normal Gholak, there's no other upgrades than better Gholaks
teal swift
blazing condor
i personally use cheat but id probably change if i got rageheart
forest yacht
i have an lfr rage heart and hero cheat death and hero accelerating
unsure if i should drop cheat death
its not bad ilvl
toxic pewter
youre missing out on a lot of damage by ruinning cheat death trinket
broken kite
patent imp
strong forum
No
pallid quiver
That's what we call a bot
strong forum
Well it is possible, but it would be the same as botting
grim pilot
We gain rage from thunderlord?
strong forum
That's why it Sims better these days
pallid quiver
We gain rage from thunderlord?
Booming Voice specifically
T Lord lets you get more Demo Shouts out to use more Booming Voice
craggy pilot
ye ok, was just considering trying out Challenging Shout
grim pilot
Ye jusr didnt know about rage gain
craggy pilot
is Dstance still a ~13% dps loss?
dusky canopy
whats demo shout?
blazing condor
think demo is japanese for something
dusky canopy
Isn't that where people smash cars into each other?
toxic pewter
is Dstance still a ~13% dps loss?
no they buffed dstance to only lower our damage by 5%, so now its like 8ish% dps loss now or somethin
craggy pilot
no they buffed dstance to only lower our damage by 5%, so now its like 8ish% dp...
ah ok thx
jagged pier
Isn't that where people smash cars into each other?
manic scaffold
do we not take intervene anyomore?
modern zephyr
Yay I always hated that
hardy snow
no
manic scaffold
i havent played this spec since BFA
waxen cradle
With the damage from the clear area with the yellow mobs in Murozonds Rise is there anything we can do to reduce the damage we take from those mobs besides soothe/tranq shotting those mobs enrage this week, and well using CD's because I tend to have bitchy healers not liking how hard they hit me in there this week. Now that being said no one is clearing raging most of the time so I feel like I just have to take it
Now yes this is all in pugs and yes what do I expect but was just wondering
lyric cape
Raging doesn't increase there damage anymore only makes them imume for CC
warm plinth
Kinda crazy how many people still don't know that
waxen cradle
Well I have only been back a little over 2 weeks so I am still in catch up
warm plinth
Raging just makes mobs immune to CC, so people don't soothe it that often anymore (not that pugs were super great about it before)
timber nest
is it possible to have uproar in the m+ build?
waxen cradle
Also that dungeon is always super fun when almost no one but me interrupts
timber nest
i feel like you give up on more damage to get it
warm plinth
is it possible to have uproar in the m+ build?
You can give up Shockwave to get it if you think you don't need it
waxen cradle
just went back and looked at interrupts that explains a lot
Also apparently the dps were allowing afflicted to go off how fun for me, I keep a close watch usually but being busy interrupting and stunning and well doing my job, I did not notice they let afflicted go off twice
The amount of times I have watched dps ignore afflicted this week is insane
And given how I can't do a thing about it makes it more fun =.=
warm plinth
Yeah I think I've seen more afflicted go off this week than I did all last season combined. And sadly that's not an exaggeration.
waxen cradle
It would not be so bad if we as Warrior tanks had literally anything we could do about it besides yelling at the other party members when it goes off
The irony is it goes off at really inconvient times to say the least and people are "like why is the tank suddenly taking more damage" ? And then I rage myself and I am like "hmm I wonder" ?
blazing condor
where's the biggest time loss in rise at you guys reckon?
like if there's any place to try and optimise
feels like around battlefield or the timeways area
teal swift
like if there's any place to try and optimise
The dance dance revolution gauntlet through sandpit
Litterbox + frogger minigame
Wastes so much time
warm plinth
Sorry @waxen frigate didn't see you til after I'd invited someone 
plucky idol
as a zanda troll, whats the best shrine for me to use...embrace the loa racial
warm plinth
paku
cosmic wyvern
anyone else kinda hate how the stat prios for prot and fury are polar opposites
you don't really want any mastery as prot but you need that shit pumped directly into your veins as fury
so its a bit of a pain to flex since you kinda need two different sets of gear
toxic pewter
as a zanda troll, whats the best shrine for me to use...embrace the loa racial
gronk ftw
toxic pewter
so its a bit of a pain to flex since you kinda need two different sets of gear
? everyone knows the true prot warr plays arms when they dps
cosmic wyvern
I'd play arms but arms is really fucking boring tbh
toxic pewter
weakminded individual's opinion
cosmic wyvern
also the animations are kinda cringe
though I play a night elf so that doesn't help
toxic pewter
nothin worse than a fury warr, perhaps paladins obviously, but def a close situation
cosmic wyvern
but the night elf thunder clap animation is so good that I refuse to race change
even though dwarf is objectively better :(
blazing condor
cus no one plays goblin lol
hollow sun
Fury Warr sucks because the weapons feel like paper sticks without any weight to them
violet flume
is that exclusive to feign death or is this their real death animation lol
hollow sun
Greatest racial animation of a spell ever is the female goblin feign death
Beautiful indeed
sick sentinel
https://gyazo.com/3a35dfe3356342da374a9e70acf9d138
plucky idol
plucky idol
omfg DEAD
desert wind
So, what %haste are people swapping heavy repercussions for into the fray?
uneven mason
So, what %haste are people swapping heavy repercussions for into the fray?
About 5400 rating
desert wind
Kk tyty
surreal kindle
What's the current soft haste cap for protection?
Still looking for an answer to this
uneven mason
Still looking for an answer to this
There's no soft cap, the cap is @lusty grotto
silver crane
hey, is there any way to transfer dreaming crests from a char to another ?
toxic pewter
no, not yet anyway
sick sentinel
i dunno about you all but i think my plan is im gunna stay low for bit on wow whenever fated raids might fart around with those
sick sentinel
i think i read they wanted to do something like fated raids
im not sre if they are doing a season 4 m+ and i got the mount for current one
silver crane
no, not yet anyway
okay, thanks !
sick sentinel
so its like, do normal do heroic maybe, and then its pretty quiet for me
echo egret
How important is bloodsurge in our build ?
Like if I want to take something elsewhere
timber nest
How important is bloodsurge in our build ?
You can drop it if you want, makes AOE a little tiny squishier
toxic pewter
I see a lot of people dropping battering ram and keeping bloodsurge in order to pick up aoe interrupt. I drop bloodsurge over battering ram myself if I decide I want to use that talent
manic scaffold
Are prot warriors really bad
trim bay
U must wana fight
blazing condor
Are prot warriors really bad
yes
manic scaffold
I remember they were unkillable in the beginning of the expansion.
How many nerfs did they get hit with
blazing condor
Havent we like only gotten buffed
toxic pewter
pretty much, just another individual who only cares about what position a tank is on some arbitrary popularity list/community perception
uneven mason
Havent we like only gotten buffed
I mean there was that "nerf" when they fixed battering ram
uneven mason
I remember they were unkillable in the beginning of the expansion.
You mean when the tier list click bait creators discovered math for 20s and said block was insanely strong while ignoring how incredibly OP paladins were?
(I mean block is insanely strong dgmw)
manic scaffold
A bit shitty theyre so reliant on healers. I come from playing a Blood DK so im used to doing everything solo but i wanted to gear my warrior cause i kinda missed prot warrior. I love how many buttons they have to press and how fast the playstyle is
toxic pewter
?
edgy bone
Why is everyone saying prot warrior sucks this season?
raw parcel
Why is everyone saying prot warrior sucks this season?
We lack the utility of other options.
edgy bone
We lack the utility of other options.
Our talent tree is so versatile, how could we ever be bad?
raw parcel
Pally has Blessing of Freedom, can offheal in a pinch, has hard interrupts for days. Just lots of bonuses that a prot warrior doesn't bring.
raw parcel
Though as a warrior if you are requiring constant healer attention you are very likely doing something wrong.
manic scaffold
Well see i didnt run it in too many dungeons yet so i cant tell but thats what other people are telling me
edgy bone
Pally has Blessing of Freedom, can offheal in a pinch, has hard interrupts for d...
We have spell ref lect and shockwave
manic scaffold
And this video https://youtu.be/6Go0eKEFswI?si=TFP0MthunUQ7uxHk
raw parcel
Shockwave is good, would be better if we got it baseline, admittedly.
manic scaffold
How does spell block work?
raw parcel
You click it and can block spells like you would melee attacks, I believe? Not sure it's any more complex than that.
manic scaffold
I thought it would be like a AMS but its not
And it isnt a juiced up version of spell reflect
frosty mango
It lets you block spells
uneven mason
I thought it would be like a AMS but its not
It literally applies our block value to mitigation vs "most" non physical damage
And lasts forever
uneven mason
No I stop at ports
toxic pewter
I welcome you back to prot warr, but please do not believe the lies and slander the community at large has been levying against us for a long time now
manic scaffold
Oh ok
toxic pewter
i will fight 1v1 anyone that puts me or any other prot warr down
in game i mean with a duel
manic scaffold
Lol
toxic pewter
or challenge them to a tank off whichever they want
uneven mason
Apb is a violent fox
toxic pewter
I am tired of being put down baselessly
I stand up for myself and I invite all others to join me
uneven mason
We know what the fox says now, and it's
toxic pewter
i will crush all in my path
frosty mango
This is the duel that never ends
Yes it goes on and on my friends
Some people, started dueling not knowing what spec it was
and they’ll go on forever and forever just because….
toxic pewter
even other other warriors if needed, the self-hating ones
and there are plenty of those around
uneven mason
Yeah, we'd like to contain self loathing to HoW and whatever the vdh discord is
toxic pewter
I am not, and will not, be labeled some '2nd class citizen/tank' nonsense any longer
manic scaffold
I never see prot warriors so i thought i might try it again. Everyone is hoping on BDK cause the leggo. Prot is still as fun as i remember
toxic pewter
especially by some circlestanding bullshit spec
frosty mango
Windwalker being bad pushed up brm
toxic pewter
I never see prot warriors so i thought i might try it again. Everyone is hoping ...
ok? let them have fun in their circle is what I say
uneven mason
I never see prot warriors so i thought i might try it again. Everyone is hoping ...
Even with Lego vdh wins for utility in meta races, if you're not 0.1% pushing it literally doesn't matter
uneven mason
Windwalker being bad pushed up brm
Ww is cooking now
But yeah, there's nothing "weak" about prot warriors, our kit for tanking is strong and, when you get into the nitty of the season we actually have a lot of strong utility, vdh just has more and does a lot of damage
manic scaffold
I didnt know vdh had a lot of utility
frosty mango
Prot isn’t my mainspec
I’m 486, and have a very loose grasp on how to play well
So if I can tank 20+ and do 140-170k dps and not die while being an objectively mediocre prot player then imo the spec can’t be in that bad of a place
pallid quiver
Well see i didnt run it in too many dungeons yet so i cant tell but thats what o...
A good thing to keep in mind is that most people who play this game have absolutely zero idea about how things work.
Like, it's especially bad in WoW
even a good chunk of content creators spew misinformation just due to the culture around the game
As a Prot War, you can legit solo most packs and a good chunk of bosses; there's only specific instances where you're in actual danger, and most of those threaten other tanks, as well (Doggos in Throne, for example; even a BDK can't just face heal their way through if stacks get high enough)
manic scaffold
How do prots deal with magic damage?
Like is spell reflect the only good magic mitigation we have?
lusty grotto
spell block, wall, demo, dstance
manic scaffold
Oh ok cool
pallid quiver
Even if you don't leap every other breath, it's still not that bad if you rotate defensives and the adds are actually dying
It's not as brain dead easy as on DK, but
novel temple
But yeah, there's nothing "weak" about prot warriors, our kit for tanking is str...
What utility would you say? Cause it feels kinda bad
pallid quiver
How do prots deal with magic damage?
At any rate, Prot War's one of the best tanks for dealing with magic damage depending on how it comes in; we're on of the strongest to infrequent, heavy bursts of magic damage. It's magic rot that's usually a problem
pallid quiver
What utility would you say? Cause it feels kinda bad
We've got access to a lot of general stops and provide Battle Shout, which iirc even now most of the top end damage dealers are melee. don't need to heal the team if they just don't take the damage
novel temple
I actually wish we had throw down still
The knockdown that arms used to have in wrath
cinder pasture
Bring gag order back 
novel temple
Ooooooo this way
Also bring back shield slam purge
And make Anger Management great again
CDR for everything
woven radish
Yea i hate how the more time goes on the more we are pruned of our true skills. Like i miss disarm etc.... would really give us some amazing niche plays back again. Intervene not baseline anymore. These new trees don't give choice, they just cut shit out we used to have for free
novel temple
And make old passives into new talents
violet flume
bring back heroic throw silence too
back in wrath, id lock down one faction chmap with pure CC
novel temple
bring back heroic throw silence too
Comes with gag order
violet flume
4sec stun shockwave, 5sec concussive i think? silence heroic throw and shield bash + intercept
novel temple
Also having cc diminishing returns sort of sucks
violet flume
not a single cast would go through it was glorious
novel temple
For pve
median tulip
My utility is not taking any damage
grim pilot
Ye u could legit PERMA cc casters just with stops
Very easily
Take enha evo dh/pwar + idk like monk or some shit
novel temple
Take enha evo dh/pwar + idk like monk or some shit
I’ve actually been wanting do do like enhance, prot war, outlaw, mw monk, but idk what the 5th would be
grim pilot
Aug
Or if you’re not doing high enough where u need the survi, just go hunter, then u have everyone benefitting from warrior shout and monk fully + everyone getting something from wft
novel temple
That’s why I do@t want an Aug
The wind fury part
But I didn’t know if hunters benefitted or not
grim pilot
Survi does
Not by much as per bloodmallet
But it does somewhat
But wft shouldn’t limit your options at all unless all you wanted was maximum buff compatibilityb
Then I’d take feral instead of rogue
Since he also brings buff, rogue doesn’t
novel temple
Why not Druid instead of hunter?
grim pilot
Idk forgot that feral is like 100% physical damage
urban portal
technically enh doesnt even wanna take windfury
urban portal
I’ve actually been wanting do do like enhance, prot war, outlaw, mw monk, but id...
just take havoc 5th
class is broken
grim pilot
Yeah you’re right, enha this season doesnt even take it
Like sure with a comp like that’d you would be mad trolling if you didnt
urban portal
yeah you are probably trolling
grim pilot
But generally enhas dont take it
urban portal
but they dont take it if they can help it
enh is like the 4th highest dps in the windfury group
lmao
like a 2nd enh that doesnt take wft
grim pilot
Not to mention wft is also survi for the tank
urban portal
i find that to be crazy
grim pilot
Well definitely a prot war, not sure how it works exactly with other tanks
keen leaf
is prot warrior emelishments just 2 shadowflames? thats what wowhead says, just double checking before i lock in
lusty grotto
glossy wraith
Got into gearing and tanking low keys recently and warrior feels pretty good, any tips for progressing and be a better tank?
warm plinth
Log everything, ask for help, and as you get comfortable at your level, challenge yourself by pulling bigger and/or more aggressively.
cerulean tusk
I just want to stress, push yourself to the limits. Get a good feeling of how much you can take, and what is problematic. Solving those problems with your team, will be core when you transition from low to high keys.
Godspeed out there 
keen anvil
what's the max amount of haste with out buffs/weapon oils were aiming for? I've heard 35 percent to drop bolster?
glossy wraith
Ty ty, will be updating sooon
lusty grotto
what's the max amount of haste with out buffs/weapon oils were aiming for? I've ...
bolster has nothing to do with haste
you drop it cause you dont use it with current tier
bolster was only used with previous tier set, because it had last stand CDR (cooldown reduction)
no previous tier set? no need for bolster
if youre using bolster with current tier you're wasting a talent point
raw parcel
Dunno if "wasting" is the right word, but it's no longer optimal.
rocky kraken
Does intervene+spell reflect work still?
opaque quest
You shouldnt be talenting intervene in the first place
pallid quiver
That hasn't worked in years
rocky kraken
I remember it working on first boss of NW in SL and thats it. Was just wondering if there was anything else like it in DF
teal swift
Dunno if "wasting" is the right word, but it's no longer optimal.
That's semantics. Replace wasting with suboptimal and attach a modifier like "a little" "very" "considerably"
raw parcel
Question! Are any of the crafted trinkets viable for prot? Assuming max item level.
jagged pier
no
raw parcel
Maybe the vault will be nice and offer me a good trinket soon.
clever sleet
how do you survive Razor jaws in throne ? im 478 and in a 21-22 i get wrecked with full defensives
i need a fing aug to barely live it
pallid quiver
That the bleed from doggos? The solution is to not get hit
Preferably, the dogs immediately explode
That's not particularly likely since DPS don't understand those shred tanks by design, so you've got to work around it by getting aggro and kiting/stunning/using defensives to live stacks
If it gets stacked up high enough, you're just dead
any tank would be
clever sleet
okay so just move more and get real dps got
north hornet
what is a good and easy class to learn as tanking my guild need a tank for raiding but didnt tank since bfa or shadowlands any idea ?
pallid quiver
pretty much any
All the tanks are fairly easy to play at a baseline level
Warrior's probably the most punishing if you fuck up, but it's pretty hard to fuck up if you have spent any time at all working on the class
pallid quiver
fine
north hornet
Ok
north hornet
What tank do scale decent or good with big pulls ?
pallid quiver
Veng probably scales the most due to how nutso its damage is overall unless it got noticeably hit since I last played like week 2
But your choice of tank won't really drastically affect your ability to clear most any content
north hornet
I am only raiding normal and herioc and main tank is a blood or monk tank
pallid quiver
Really, if it's for a raid group and you're willing to play any, you should play whatever patches a buff in the group you need
So if you need a second Pally to get Devo and Ret aura, Pally, if you need a DH for the magic buff, DH, and so on
north hornet
if you was me what tank would you recomend for both m+ and raid i didnt tank since bfa or shadowlands
pallid quiver
whichever you think is coolest on the character select screen