2 year hiatus, come back to this insufferable crafting system and talents that require PHD and do basically trhe same thing as the old system 😠
#protection
teal swift
lusty grotto
seen, viper looks sick but a lot of people will play it
use the search
type blood and
it will put a mark on it
teal swift
Oh theres a search button
holy shit
Thanks friend
anwayys, hi Yuzu is back~
Elvui completely rearranged things and removed keybinds etc, but uh, any ideas what was on my 1-5 previously xD?
daring marlin
seen, viper looks sick but a lot of people will play it
Same happened with RPR tho
blazing condor
so whats the rationale on playing thunderlord next patch
instead of just stayin with SoF
blazing condor
ah yea thats what i forgot
lusty grotto
4p resets
oblique garnet
Elvui completely rearranged things and removed keybinds etc, but uh, any ideas w...
Devastate
lusty grotto
you dont
cause we dont really track its duration
and havent since its inception in legion
warm plinth
Don't yell at me Nimchip
lusty grotto
😮
pallid quiver
i don't track it because i just slam button
warm plinth
Can confirm, Luerce just press button
lusty grotto
pallid quiver
But if you really do want to track it for state of mind, should be %p iirc
warm plinth
Luerce big carried me through some timewalking this morning while I just bitched about how stupid warlocks are in timewalking the entire time.
lusty grotto
but but
warm plinth
Or, hear me out
warm plinth
Just...use a template
pallid quiver
^^^
pallid quiver
There should be progress bar templates that would likely be the best
timid edge
feel like i can't choose between veng dh and prot warr as a main tank, what im looking for is alot of group support through damage and highest survivability, which one ?
pallid quiver
As of current with most recent changes, VDH has the most damage iirc, but I wouldn't fuss over that until pretty much when patch launches, since tuning can change that literally overnight
pallid quiver
And survivability usually is impacted by encounter/dungeon design and damage profiles, but all tanks by and large are extremely survivable
lusty grotto
cause vdh will suffer in extremely high keys
timid edge
i am mainly on prot paly at 16/17 keys, but i find my dmg very lackluster, and not finishing dungeons fast enough
so i was thinking to switch to ven dh or prot warr to help the team dps more
lusty grotto
thats a more than comfortable range for both of them
id say do vdh for now, maybe get prot up as an alt
timid edge
cause vdh will suffer in extremely high keys
and prot warr won't?
lusty grotto
it doesnt matter high keys are typically out of your range
both are equally viable
you'll just have to jump through more hoops as vdh
play optimally etc
know when to kite
im talking about 26+
17s are more than doable with any tank
and will be
timid edge
i just started this expa last week, im planning to go for 25+ keys in next patch
so was just trying to settle on a main, but now that you mentioned 10.2 updaes could change everything about tanks, no clue what to practice 😄
pallid quiver
Whichever is most fun
lusty grotto
^
toxic pewter
prot warr pretty strong, we got 5% more to our damage in defensive stance
pallid quiver
The maximum potential of tanks in keys is heavily determined by just which dungeon it is
lusty grotto
id say its more determined whether you have a coordinated team or not
pallid quiver
Like, if all scary damage is blockable, Prot War doesn't give a shit
warm plinth
5% more more damage in defensive stance smfh
lusty grotto
bleeding edge keys might show some cracks but that applies to every class
pallid quiver
And on top of that, playing dungeons well is the most important part
cerulean tusk
Dstance grants 5% dam next patch?
pallid quiver
You could play literally the worst spec in the game if you properly handled mobs
toxic pewter
na like 2 months ago
cerulean tusk
Man, I had couple, what
pallid quiver
Dstance grants 5% dam next patch?
He means the damage reduction got, uh, reduced
cerulean tusk
Oh
pallid quiver
So it's like 5% or 10% or whatever it is from whatever it was
i dont remember i don't press d stance unless oh no
toxic pewter
some my best friends r d stancers
cerulean tusk
Don't worry, that just means prot is perfectly balanced
warm plinth
Then...you don't mention anything? You say we have received no changes outside of tier, and that means we're still in the same condition we are now, which is a strong tank
toxic pewter
we did get a heavy nerf to one of our core utility abilities
pallid quiver
APB's on the doom train
warm plinth
Oh for fuck's sake, not this again
cerulean tusk
They nerfed shieldblock?
lusty grotto
toxic pewter
someone asked how prot warr looking
pallid quiver
no, rally
warm plinth
He's talking about fucking Rallying Cry
cerulean tusk
Oh
pallid quiver
And the rally nerf means we're unplayable
toxic pewter
no one seems to mention it
cerulean tusk
Prot is wild
pallid quiver
Especially since Blizz has said nothing
warm plinth
Because you mention it enough for everyone
urban bane
Because it doesn't matter; all 3 min defensives were nerfed no?
pallid quiver
It's not like max HP is increasing and they're trying to reduce healing/defensive CDs or anything
cerulean tusk
They nerfed shieldwall?
urban bane
Guess all those 3min raid defensives wont be used at all
warm plinth
It doesn't matter because it's a mediocre cooldown in the first place.
urban bane
raid defensives*
toxic pewter
Ok lets change the topic
lusty grotto
apb cookin
cerulean tusk
Phew, saved.
toxic pewter
i think we gonna be pretty good in 10.2 but vdh will be meta imo
or 5 legendary comp
lusty grotto
i think you misspelled BDK
warm plinth
5 BDKs obviously
toxic pewter
lmao
lusty grotto
true and real
warm plinth
Next break the meta gonna be literally anything but BDK
lusty grotto
well
this btm was kinda fucking stupid since you couldnt run WW or Rsham
would have been so simple, everything except god/exodia comp
but nooo
pallid quiver
I wager they probably go by some percentage of use stats, curated, but I actually have zero idea and am bullshitting
tender cove
Came looking for copper, found gold... wtf 😄
mighty valley
is apb still trying out the “healers will use the str weapon” bit
mighty valley
It is true that weirder things have happened on planet earth
That’s not usually my bar in making predictions though
toxic pewter
Well I have it on record my prediction
warm plinth
I'm curious what the stranger things are
toxic pewter
I’m not a fortune teller but I have been correct many times
mighty valley
I’ll log it away with shaman tanks and shouting warriors
toxic pewter
Please do
warm plinth
I've been correct a lot too, but I've also been wrong a lot.
toxic pewter
I have admitted to being wrong on my occasions
mighty valley
I also can’t tell if you genuinely don’t understand why we’re not taking the rally change personally
toxic pewter
I get the other raid cd were also nerfed. My main gripe is I get rally was strong in raid but now it’s even more inadequate in m+ than ever before. I wanted blizzard to buff rally by 100% in party content (which would still be a 33% nerf then a 100% buff). This is what dh darkness is getting in 10.2
tender cove
Warriors should get a shout that does bloodlust. Fix IP and make it heal for like 30% of each application. Buff all dps by 10% and call it a day? Everything fixed in 3 easy changes.
mighty valley
I get the other raid cd were also nerfed. My main gripe is I get rally was stron...
They could do this but temp max health increase just isn’t a super relevant m+ buff no matter how big they make it
mighty valley
Warriors should get a shout that does bloodlust. Fix IP and make it heal for lik...
that middle one is absolutely bananas
pallid quiver
No, no, he's got a point, Harrow, let it happen
tender cove
that middle one is absolutely bananas
Thats like, totally, your opinion maaaan. 😛
pallid quiver
I, too, wish to not-magically wish pain away by pretending I'm not missing an arm
It'd be funny
but i'd prefer a brez shout because that'd be super funny
mighty valley
“GET UP”
toxic pewter
They could do this but temp max health increase just isn’t a super relevant m+ b...
that is true, I mean they could make it not temporary health then, make it a 10% max hp for 10 sec and then the health does not go away. or give us any sort of compensation in return for the nerf we are receiving. Instead we get nothing.
pallid quiver
"GET THE FUCK BACK UP YOU STILL HAVE BLOOD TO BLEED"
Everyone I say this to calls it the Payday 2 method of getting someone up
mighty valley
if you’re not losing anything meaningful to your performance, you don’t need to get anything back in return just because it “feels fair”
tender cove
I will feel this nerf
It is pretty huge
toxic pewter
33% is no joke
mighty valley
you will feel this nerf if you want to feel this nerf in order to be correct
toxic pewter
lol
cerulean tusk
And it still will save your group, it still will help surviving those mechanics. You still will feel it saving both yourself and others.
toxic pewter
not as many times as before
tender cove
you will feel this nerf if you want to feel this nerf in order to be correct
when shit actually hurts and each "aoe ability" does like 80% without cds... Having that rally to even it out actually does feel signciant and useful.
gutting it by 33% will be noticeable, its not just qq for the sake of it
mighty valley
We basically got a rally nerf going from SL to DF because it became inconvenient to take the talent that buffs it and no one really cared
toxic pewter
and yeah I won't lie I do find it a bit unfortunate I am the only one going on about this
cerulean tusk
Why do you think that is?
sick sentinel
Everyone I say this to calls it the Payday 2 method of getting someone up
Payday 2 Inspire my beloved
cerulean tusk
It is the core question, for you to solve.
lusty grotto
@dusky canopy do you know if there's a humanoid toggle in raidbots (for Ashkandur 441 vs 447 weap sim purposes)
toxic pewter
there are a few factors at play
tender cove
Why do you think that is?
Could be that hes just faster to adapt to new information and everyone else is slow. Or he could be overreacting and its nothing. Or something else.
cerulean tusk
I am only interested in his reflection tho, as he is the subject.
dusky canopy
<@224952758808215555> do you know if there's a humanoid toggle in raidbots (for ...
Theirs a custom text for it but idk off hand
lusty grotto
hmm
mighty valley
it’s……. definitely not the first one
lusty grotto
time to search the discords
dusky canopy
441 asscandy beats 447 on ST if its humanoid
toxic pewter
it’s……. definitely not the first one
lol
cerulean tusk
Maybe, he got a good point, that just needs to get formulated from idea to words.
tender cove
I am only interested in his reflection tho, as he is the subject.
dont try to over philosoficial me here, thats not the game 😦
dusky canopy
441 asscandy beats 447 on ST if its humanoid
@lusty grotto
lusty grotto
441 asscandy beats 447 on ST if its humanoid
hmm interesting, so ashkandur for rashok?
assault, echo maybe?
dusky canopy
Probably should confirm that with arms boys I don’t have my own so I haven’t payed much attention to it
tender cove
which does more dps? arms or fury?
toxic pewter
O_O
cerulean tusk
Arms, on bosses
tender cove
Arms, on bosses
been playing arms randomly because its much easier this late into season and i really delete packs with cds but always struggle with low dps on bosses 😮
lusty grotto
fury is easier than arms
sick sentinel
arms would be better with condemn, fury would be better with blood lust
tender cove
fury is easier than arms
really?
waxen frigate
fury is easier than arms
i think both are extremely easy specs relative to most in the game
tender cove
Fury is better suited for non-premade M+
how come?
cerulean tusk
Damage profile
waxen frigate
tankier, less cd reliant, less positioning reliant
lusty grotto
arms would be better with condemn, fury would be better with blood lust
we have condemn
sick sentinel
in max level content no
tender cove
i think both are extremely easy specs relative to most in the game
Yeh, isnt much to press for arms really. Been cheating with heikli to get a feel for it and it really just feels like 1-2-3 // cooldowns // repeat
lusty grotto
in max level content no
yes we do
sick sentinel
outside of shadowlands?
waxen frigate
yes we do
wasnt condemn reverse execute
i barely touched warr in SL but im pretty sure that is what it was
and that isnt a thing anymore
toxic pewter
100%-80% can condemn yea
sick sentinel
condemn is, you can execute at max and min hp
mighty valley
condemn was both ends of the hp bar plus converted to shadow damage
cerulean tusk
Condemn was a magic damage execute, that gave you a shield - that also could be used 100-80%, in addition to normal execute zones.
lusty grotto
the only thing thats gone is the 100 to 80% execute
cerulean tusk
And the shield, no?
waxen frigate
the only thing thats gone is the 100 to 80% execute
i mean i feel like that's pretty big
uneven mason
condemn was both ends of the hp bar plus converted to shadow damage
And the best animation ever
waxen frigate
lol
tender cove
Damage profile
I was just trying to scrape by an upgrade for my shit 328 wep but needing 2 now for fury feels total MEH xD
sick sentinel
yeah and it deals magic dmg so it passes armor, dealing more damage in theory
cerulean tusk
Also, magic damage is gone
waxen frigate
And the best animation ever
didnt the animation stay
daring marlin
assault, echo maybe?
only end bosses of each "wing"
lusty grotto
doesnt matter with sudden death
daring marlin
echo isn't humanoid
waxen frigate
hmm and fatal mark i guess could be anti-synergistic
sick sentinel
condemn is the best ability i never knew i needed
dusky canopy
Arms owns
sick sentinel
but the name sounds like it belongs to paladin or priest TBH
dusky canopy
I like it more than fury now that I’ve learned it
lusty grotto
well i guess that makes sense
cerulean tusk
yep
toxic pewter
drakthyr suk
dusky canopy
@daring marlin how you been bro!? Setting any prs while bulking?
lusty grotto
im kinda confused though
echo can be mind soothed
thats humanoids and drakonids only
daring marlin
<@145702969990578178> how you been bro!? Setting any prs while bulking?
YOU KNOW IT BROTHER
HOW YOU DOIN
sick sentinel
but the name sounds like it belongs to paladin or priest TBH
Nah man, that son of a bitch is guilty, and I'm here with my two big choppas to deliver it
tender cove
dragon shard of knowledge, isnt that those profession boost eggs?
sick sentinel
Yes
toxic pewter
cave northwest of main town in ohn aren plains
toxic pewter
honestly hope they scrap the entirety of df professions next xpac, a true failure of a system imo
or make extreme changes to it
sick sentinel
It's not bad
toxic pewter
it really is bad
cerulean tusk
Better than the old one, that is for sure
toxic pewter
if you are not first to market you are done
sick sentinel
i thought the profession stuff was great
cerulean tusk
What you on about now?
toxic pewter
now it is even more severe though
sick sentinel
how were profession re-work bad
toxic pewter
with the skill points
sick sentinel
Except they always had a catchup for the points
well, i don't think its all that bad
toxic pewter
its pretty bad
cerulean tusk
Apb, I will just ask you this in good faith. You doing bad-takes that you know are unpopular for shock-value, or are you genuine?
toxic pewter
genuinely think it is bad
sick sentinel
It's not, apb is just bitching to bitch again
cerulean tusk
Fair enough
toxic pewter
the work order system also, pretty poor experience
all around a failure of a reboot
cerulean tusk
How so?
sick sentinel
Work orders are also fine, don't be a poor
work order system is new and sort of clunky
i think its what game needs though
cerulean tusk
Sure, but he is calling a poor experience.
sick sentinel
Do you play on a new player server where there are maybe 2 crafters for X item?
sick sentinel
like for older expansion transmog hunting i think they need it, thats just me i guess
toxic pewter
its just poorly designed and shallow. does not actually meet the goals they set out to when they were going on about the rework to professions
the depth to the specs are poor
cerulean tusk
What is poorly designed about it, I asked how so - not a rephrasing of the same thing.
toxic pewter
the point system and how to get them is poor
cerulean tusk
Again, same thing.
tender cove
wait, it takes 4 aspects to make the enchanted thingy to craft one 447... I just wasted most of them lol 😮
tender cove
fml..
toxic pewter
oh and linking bis gear to professions without any sort of deep, deep investment is also poor
i guess it wont be like that in 10.2 though
tender cove
You will swim in them in no time
i just did random upgrades thinking i only needed 1 to recraft 424 shield to 447 😦
sick sentinel
ya, once you get to where you are comfortable doing 16s you get tons of them
cerulean tusk
Apb, try to use different words. Descriptive ones, to paint us a picture of why you believe it to be poor.
toxic pewter
shallow is the word that comes to mind with the systems and df in general
there is no depth to anything
no interesting choices to be made
or consequences to be had
cerulean tusk
On whos behalf, the crafter?
toxic pewter
yeah and the player
cerulean tusk
Both are players
toxic pewter
well yeah but you were asking if I meant the crafter or buyer I guess
and then I said and players in general
cerulean tusk
So, you believe the system is an experience that borderline hurts the players - on both sides. Because, you believe there is not depth to the system and there are no negative consequences partaking in the system?
toxic pewter
Yeah basically the entire game is worse off because nothing actually matters
like back in the day you can be goblin or gnome engi
that was interesting
or even which race you picked as a priest
they had class spells
tender cove
how do you use the dungeon portals?
sick sentinel
tender cove
Open general spell book, general spells
pretty cool
cerulean tusk
They are
toxic pewter
yah gotta do 1 20 tyr or fort
sick sentinel
by some miracle
teal swift
Same PFP too
sick sentinel
i am still alive and here
tender cove
yah gotta do 1 20 tyr or fort
wasnt doing both required last season? or i just imagine that
sick sentinel
blazing condor
Only took me 10 years But i finally got achi for first boss in Blackrock depths 
sick sentinel
how i imagine wow devs coming up with quests and lore for new expansion
cerulean tusk
No way, they would never have characters trying to take over the story
The story plows over the characters in WoW
warm plinth
wasnt doing both required last season? or i just imagine that
You're probably thinking of kara/mecha/Taz where you had to time both branches of each to get the respective portal.
sullen gust
how do you use the dungeon portals?
I have an add on that puts all completed portals on your dungeon page. I remember it being in a semi recent dratnos video.
raw light
How are Prot Warriors looking for 10.2? Trying to decide what I want to play next patch.
toxic pewter
Prot Warr is fine
mighty valley
Good ST damage, a bit lacking in aoe damage, v unlikely to be the meta pick, but totally capable
and more physically attractive than the other tanks, as always
raw light
Thanks for the info
toxic pewter
Should let us tank with the 2h legendary like I do in classic
strong forum
It's impossible to predict what turns out meta or not because there are more factors at hand than just "this tank is individually strong"
Vdh looks giga now
Pwar looks really good
Bdk looks really good
Prot pally looks really good
Brew looks really good
Bear is alright
Every tank will be absolutely capable of doing the highest keys
What makes a tank meta depends on group composition to fill potential gaps or have strong synergies
Unless there's a clear outlier in performance of tanks, which there doesn't seem to be right now
sick sentinel
im still imagining bdk will be over powered with legendary axe for SOMETHING at the very least
left basalt
Vdh looks giga now
Pwar looks really good
Bdk looks really good
Prot pally looks...
What do you think will be the meta Pwar group composition?
sick sentinel
like, just makes sense for me
strong forum
Enha rogue aug + rdruid/hpal
Or havoc rogue aug + rdruid/hpal
Or havoc enha + rdruid/hpal
sick sentinel
probably monk enhance X
left basalt
I love Enhance/Aug right now, my lock buddy tags along for the 3rd dps slot usually.
sick sentinel
monk has a physical debuff
jagged gust
I cant see rogue not being meta until they get retuned
strong forum
Yeah but ww sucks
sick sentinel
would mke sense to me if its a melee comp
strong forum
I cant see rogue not being meta until they get retuned
Rogues utility isn't as unique anymore since DF and both havoc and enha do insane numbers + have alot of aoe stops
lusty grotto
enhance is slapping in ptr
well at least in ST
not exactly sure how they are doing in aoe prob not as good
strong forum
That's why I named all 3 variations of dps
For a melee comp
They are all 3 very good and strong
And also compliment each other in way 1 or the other
sick sentinel
no ret or cat druid or other melee?
strong forum
Nop
Ret suffers from only doing St or only doing aoe
And overlaps in utility with hpal
Cat druid is cat druid
It does everything a rogue does just a bit worse
Dps war is in shambles, also overlaps with pwar
And dps dk just lacks utility
They have at best 1 stun, 1 aoe stun (fdk) that is a dmg CD
And 1 mediocre group CD
Now im not saying they're bad or can't be played
But I do doubt they're "meta" material as in the definition of best pick
lusty grotto
feral is doing very well too though
strong forum
Absolutely
lusty grotto
ret well you're right
strong forum
Feral was good all xpac
lusty grotto
hyperfocusing hurts them
strong forum
And mdi pick in S1
lusty grotto
but ret with leggo might actually be worth
strong forum
But they just never seem to fit as "best" pick in ultra keys
strong forum
but ret with leggo might actually be worth
Entirely possible
But also quite a curve ball
toxic pewter
I stand by my prediction
sick sentinel
i still think it will go to bdks first primarily
or dps mains
not that ret isn't dps main, i just i think it will only first go to the life long ret kinda thing or like a warrior or dk or whatever else uses 2h axe
im not really sure what else does, probably hunter
toxic pewter
That’s basically it those three classes
I wonder Hunter may be able to get it for transmog
sick sentinel
kinda crazy that they putting in an orange axe as asmongold bait and he's still fence sitting about come back to retail, thats my take, i might as well keep playing though
see what 11.0 is
strong forum
I wonder Hunter may be able to get it for transmog
You don't get legendaries as transmog
toxic pewter
Ok
toxic pewter
Can survival hunters transmog 2h axes though Like normal appearances anyone know
sick sentinel
they did the bfa cloak too im pretty sure
strong forum
I think hunter can mog 2h axes yes
toxic pewter
Ok
sick sentinel
hunters by default can equip 1 and 2 hand axes yes
toxic pewter
That’s cool but no new agi 2h axes exist anymore right
Like they don’t make them anymore as far as I know
sick sentinel
2 hand im less certain about, but im still pretty positive
HUNTER WEAPON
after all
like, hunterweapon, nuff said
strong forum
Altho now thinking about it idk if the tmog will be unlocked
And if it is
It'll be locked to the specific classes I imagine
toxic pewter
Yah would be weird for hunters to use it lol
strong forum
Cuz I don't think warrior can tmog valanyr
Cuz it's class locked
Same goes for the firelands staff
toxic pewter
How do you think will get the legendary anyway. You think it will be like sark where item drops off boss
sick sentinel
im pretty sure they said it comes in parts
sick sentinel
i would prefer if it came out in a small managable amount of parts, like 3, like hexen
strong forum
It'll be less rng than sark
sick sentinel
each class has to find 3 parts of its ultimate weapon to use it
strong forum
But we have no idea what the legendary does or how to get it
All we know is it'll be deterministic esque
toxic pewter
Prob will find out the details when the patch comes
strong forum
I reckon we won't have any idea until fyrakk dies on mythic
sick sentinel
toxic pewter
Yeah dang
sick sentinel
this is the warriors weapon in this game (hes not called a warrior its something else berserker or fighter or somethin
i never seen 3d rendered hexen before, i might have to try that shit out
strong forum
Okay so a friend confirmed you can tmog the evoker legendary onto other weapons
strong forum
So the axe will likely be an unlocked tmog aswell
toxic pewter
That’s a fist weapon right
sick sentinel
my thoughts are, it should be transmoggable after DF is shelved
then you have to have it to have it transmogged
toxic pewter
Wait can I transmog that fist weapon on my prot warr if I get it on my evoker
strong forum
Wait can I transmog that fist weapon on my prot warr if I get it on my evoker
98% doubt
Cuz class locked legendary
Same as only rogues can use their legendarys
toxic pewter
Ah yeah makes sense
strong forum
And how hunters can't use shadowmourne
hazy bronze
It checks out with all the other leggumsberries being tmoggable now
cosmic wyvern
god I wish the Shadowed Impact Buckler was good
kinda hate having to use 2 dps embellishments as a tank
teal swift
@strong forum Lets touch tips exchange bad jokes
lusty grotto
kinda hate having to use 2 dps embellishments as a tank
why does it matter? embelishments are a DF thing and theyve always been damage focused
teal swift
kinda hate having to use 2 dps embellishments as a tank
Then dont
lusty grotto
there hasnt been a single time where we didn't
teal swift
and accept you wont win RWF or do cutting edge keys
lusty grotto
im not sure why that's a problem
teal swift
Like, you dont have to do fuck all
if youre timing 30's rn
sure min max
if youre going for month 1 CE sure min max
but if youre like the other 99% of players
your decisions will not be meaningful
and do wahtever the fuck you want
teal swift
I mean, im a shit player, hyper optimizing all of my secondary stats and embellishments, will equate to 0 weeks faster to kill a boss in raid, and 0 keylevels
so i can do what i want
lusty grotto
as if an embelishment would provide anything positive to defensiveness
its trinkets and we basically dont use them
cosmic wyvern
jeez you guys are angry today
lusty grotto
i'll always been in awe of people that extract emotion out of rational answers
teal swift
but ye for real, if you want to min max, do it, and try to leverage it into literally ANYTHING.
teal swift
I dont want to minmax, because while i get to feel the dopamine hits from high parses, the boss doesnt actually die more successfully, and the keys arent getting extra levels
lusty grotto
ive no idea what youre talking about
cerulean tusk
Yuzu do seem unhinged, if not mad 
teal swift
Im not unhinged jfc
cerulean tusk
Uhuh
teal swift
Im Biwinning
toxic pewter
Im not unhinged jfc
That’s exactly what someone unhinged would want me to believe.. 🤔
teal swift
That said, even if i went full DPS on my character, instead of full turtle, my keystone level would be the same
there is no choice i can make
that will make any meaningful difference L O L
lusty grotto
who
teal swift
except gitgud
lusty grotto
?
toxic pewter
wat
cerulean tusk
You do not believe optimization will affect your performance?
teal swift
You do not believe optimization will affect your performance?
I do not beleive it will increase the end results.
The raid boss will die on the same week
the keystone level will be the same
lusty grotto
who?
teal swift
minmaxing, gets me shiny number, doesnt really kill the boss
cerulean tusk
You never wiped at 1%?
teal swift
your opinion man
Its fact
teal swift
Sounds like a skill issue
teal swift
Wait, so you cant refute my statement, so you attack my percieved level of experience
rather than making a robust rebuttal. Yep, you're a brainlet
mighty valley
there's obviously levels to it, right
lusty grotto
whatever makes you sleep at night
mighty valley
yes, for most players, focusing more on play is better than obsessing over tiny stat edges or whatever
teal swift
yes, for most players, focusing more on play is better than obsessing over tiny ...
100%
cerulean tusk
He stated all optimisation tho
mighty valley
but like... everyone in the group has to care somewhat about their output... for anything to happen...
teal swift
Hyperopitmization and minmax.
lusty grotto
ive no idea why we went from A to B
teal swift
but like... everyone in the group has to care somewhat about their output... for...
Absolutely, i agree.
lusty grotto
when A is "theres just no defensive embelishments" lol
teal swift
But fixing my stat distribution, or embellishments
toxic pewter
Is this how it feels when you guys talking to me
teal swift
wont kill a boss :kekw:
lusty grotto
like theres a gap a size of the mariana trench
cerulean tusk
I dunno, I came in mid rant
cerulean tusk
Anyhow, your performance matters in the team setting. Minmaxing DPS do matter for the overall output.
It might not matter in how Yuzu feels about it
lusty grotto
of course
just strange going into that when the the answer is just "there's no defensive embelishments"
just out of left field logic
teal swift
I mean, isnt that one necklace
cerulean tusk
Sporecloak
teal swift
defensive and offensive
and sporecloak
Lariat is just secondary stat, thats defensive
:kekw:
cerulean tusk
Pushing it, but why not
pallid quiver
sporecloak might be useful next patch tho; it'll be simmed when we get closer to launch
waxen frigate
sounds like an SL baby
das me
teal swift
if you have two options, equal effort to get both
Choose the one you like the icon of more
:kekw:
mighty valley
............ ok
mighty valley
hope you're having fun
waxen frigate
cerulean tusk
Ye, he is
toxic pewter
O_O
teal swift
real talk though, when making decisions, jsut feel it out
unless youre doing the hardest content, as quickly as possible
toxic pewter
No
toxic pewter
LOL
lusty grotto
ez
pallid quiver
just chuck tank decisions into sims
cerulean tusk
Trolls are on fire today, hub
teal swift
that used to get spammed here
pallid quiver
i mean
embells and everything don't matter strongly offensively and defensively
that's why you just sim so you don't worry about it at all
teal swift
Jakey coming in clutch
cursive prawn
Sure, if one person out of 20 doesn’t optimise, the outcome is typically the same
But if all 20 show up with that mindset?
teal swift
There's always more optimization on the table though
Where should we rightfully draw the line
cursive prawn
That specifically is a good point
mighty valley
there is basically infinite playing better on the table though
lusty grotto
thats true
teal swift
Optimize to a better class i guess
prot warrior isnt #1? just play a different class
The socially acceptable and arbitrary line is, play any class you want, but min max it, and the question is, why is that the line?
tender cove
The socially acceptable and arbitrary line is, play any class you want, but min ...
My take is that its such a time investment and a done mostly in a group setting, which means everyone you play with dedicates "x" amont of time, depending on investment, goals etc, but at the higher end and community perception? Is that if youre not doing the same degenerate shit as me, no matter if its only 8 ilvls on some 1% trinket that maths out to a miniscule 0.7% extra dps increase? Youre essentially wasting their time and youre automatically the scapegoat for any failures, because thats the easy way out. "ohhh, andy didnt farm 7 hours for that trinket upgrade and thats why we wiped to the last boss at 7% hp".. Or smt like that.
teal swift
why are you wasting your time
You sure do absolutely adore me
im living rent free :kekw:
are you going to be hot and bothered
cause im not going anywhere
so you'll see me here for the next 12 months
lusty grotto
by starting something with "socially acceptable" which has nothing to do with something social
clearly an im 12 and im smurt moment
teal swift
The best thing you could do is block me, but I'd rather you didnt
because your attention fuels me
tender cove
why are you wasting your time
I honestly didnt read up on everything, was just bored and threw my thoughts out there, no more, no less.
teal swift
My take is that its such a time investment and a done mostly in a group setting,...
You make valid points
tender cove
Theres a whole 1.5 hour youtube video on this with scentifitic backing, psycoligal anyalisis and think its was called smt funny like, why are you bad at wow smt smt
let me see if i can find it
teal swift
I just dont see a way, that optimizing my stats according to a sim, or choosing a particular trinket, or embellishment, will actually net any real gain. My numbers may go up, but is that enough to kill said mythic boss? is that enolugh to time the key?
if i get certain embellishments, how many keylevels do I gain on average
tender cove
yeh, "why its rude to suck at world of warcraft"
teal swift
Is minmaxing everything, other than pilot skill, going to get me from a +21 in time to a +22 in time?
tender cove
tender cove
I only watched like first 30 minutes
but he makes some very interesting comments, takes and "aha" moments
i just didnt have time at the time and just forgot about it
teal swift
I just think of al ot of this shit like the SMB Frame rule
if it wont get you a new frame rule, the optimization is effectively useless
Dont get me wrong, i completely lust after shiny parse numbers
I just dont think most of my optimizations actually do anything real, other than number go up
tender cove
I just dont see a way, that optimizing my stats according to a sim, or choosing ...
All of this, i think at least, comes down to social structures. What level do you play at? What commitment is everyone else doing to particpate? And are you matching that? If youre pugging? Theres really no expecaction outside a rio score and some "x" runs completed. If you family/friends raid? It doesnt really matter if you farmed or minmaxed or even know what raidbots are... But if you raid on a level where hitting enrage is a thing and a combined 20 people minmaxing comes out to 10%+ difference in total dps? yeh then it matters but then you know it matters, you accept that it matters and you do it because you want to be accepted by those you play with and not look or feel like a burden.
because in the end, everyone else is doing it. Would it make more sense to practice how to play and how to execute your class better? Almost always but thats a different topic i guess.
teal swift
because in the end, everyone else is doing it. Would it make more sense to pract...
100%. But if we boil it down to A vs B.
Sim your stats for M+ vs Stack Vers 📈
its not a very meaningful decision in very many cases
tender cove
Again, what level do you play at? At some point, every aspect and variable matter.
teal swift
Not +30 keys
:kekw:
Just came back to wow after a 2y break
so no level currently
previously
idk like +20s?
tender cove
And this might come as a shocker, but some people actually enjoy doing those sims, that math, crunching numbers, trying it in practice etc.
teal swift
I fully support people doing anything they find fun lol
bleak breach
I mean sims are always how to perform most optimally
teal swift
aint out here yucking someones yum
bleak breach
Same as bis trinks etc
teal swift
I mean sims are always how to perform most optimally
Which is why i come back to the frame rule
tender cove
idk like +20s?
no, it wont matter. Theres probably no valueable information for you to get out of that and youd spend your time better watching dungeon and or class guides on how to play / run the dungeons
teal swift
no, it wont matter. Theres probably no valueable information for you to get out ...
Yep, or just running the dungeon a few times
tender cove
i dunno, what was the question, i feel lost lol
teal swift
was conflated a bit, but basically, hyper-optimization, decision making, and offense vs defense
bleak breach
Simming is as far as I go with stuff though, I was running a build a lot of guys here got crabby about and different stats to some.
I’m a clicker as well lol
teal swift
My stance is, unless youre at the top, it probably wont matter, unspoken part (l2pilot)
tender cove
nah, just have fun bro.
bleak breach
Sims and bis definitely matters no matter what, but in the end you’re just allowed to play too
teal swift
Do what you enjoy, it may mean you cannot be in a team you wanna be in
for me, i get huge dopamine for hitting good parses in raids
tender cove
i would say have an optimzation minded approach in general, dont make shit decisions just out of spite lol
but yeh, dont worry about it
teal swift
but i get good dopamine for being a turtle in keys
bleak breach
A lot of people get too caught up in it all I think.
tender cove
A lot of people get too caught up in it all I think.
this yeh
bleak breach
Like no offence to anyone and not to try to brag, but I’ve had a lot of people argue with me about similar stuff. I stack haste vers myself actually haha.
teal swift
last time i raided was in like slands lol
teal swift
Like no offence to anyone and not to try to brag, but I’ve had a lot of people a...
you do you
you wont be invited to be RWF tank
bleak breach
I also have the 3rd best parse on heroic Magmorax in the world
teal swift
im a casual mythic raider, only got 5/10 in slands SoD
bleak breach
I was running barbaric training, had 5k haste and 5k vers and pulled 97k
teal swift
but i like good numbers
bleak breach
Most people who argue with you about it will have lower numbers or just care too much.
teal swift
for me, its slap on highest ilvl
then look for haste (makes things feel better to play)
and vers (copium)
bleak breach
Take whatever basic advice you need and be on your way
teal swift
I never pretend to be good
I jsut think hypermin max, for 95% of us
wont actually mean we get that next keylevel timed
or extra mythic bosses in prog
bleak breach
I run haste until I’m at a minimum or 5k, then I tend to split crit and vers a bit nearby 50/50, but I generally just aim each piece as to wether it’s an upgrade or not.
teal swift
Its like Classic wow, raiding is super easy when everyone is world buffing, and you run 30 warriors
So yeah, you should try to optimize to the degree your social group wants you to.
tender cove
I was running barbaric training, had 5k haste and 5k vers and pulled 97k
pretty sure you would have done even more with higher haste and/or more crit instead off versa
teal swift
but indivudally
optimizing wont do much for me
im much better of foptimizing the route
and communicating, and calling cc and kicks
bleak breach
pretty sure you would have done even more with higher haste and/or more crit ins...
Haha likely, but meh. I sim all my gear, so it’s as optimal as I could get
teal swift
I support you in that, if thats what you find fun
tender cove
Haha likely, but meh. I sim all my gear, so it’s as optimal as I could get
havent simmed in a while but used to be haste up to some point, cant remember when, then crit would overtake, up to some DR and then dip back and forth between haste/crit until some very high combinations where versa would overtake both briefly to always go back as quickly behind
but yeh, havent done a sim in ages lol
teal swift
Ideally, we all find the group of people, that match our skill and dedication, in reality usually we have to bend to what other people want.
becausae its hard to find something that we fit perfectly into
bleak breach
I think the only guys that beat me were getting PIx2 and had nearly 5ilvl on me. So same scenarios I might have had them
But mine was just a random run where I did well
tender cove
But mine was just a random run where I did well
have you checked things as crit or other uptimes compared to him? Probably had a stars align run
bleak breach
havent simmed in a while but used to be haste up to some point, cant remember wh...
Yep similar scenario for me, i min maxed as much as possible, the vers is outweighing haste for me atm damage wise.
tender cove
Yep similar scenario for me, i min maxed as much as possible, the vers is outwei...
Each to their own but my interpretation was never that versa was better or worth trying to balance, just all in on haste/crit
bleak breach
have you checked things as crit or other uptimes compared to him? Probably had a...
I think the top guys got double beacon crits, I had 1 crit and 1 not, which would’ve made a difference, then mostly just the ilvl gap/PI I think
teal swift
can we delete externals :kekw:
How many augmentors does a raid need
is it 5?
so the tanks get the buffs
or is it 4 luil
tender cove
wasnt they gonna do seperate rankings? More than 1 external disqualifies you from the "real" ranks?
or was that just talks?
bleak breach
Each to their own but my interpretation was never that versa was better or worth...
Yeah a lot don’t, the main thing I got to is that vers was outweighting haste. I think I was getting 2.3dps for haste and 3.7dps for each piece of vers at the time I stopped gaining anymore haste.
That’s why I changed all my gems, my numbers increase significantly
bleak breach
wasnt they gonna do seperate rankings? More than 1 external disqualifies you fro...
I think it’s more then 2
pallid quiver
wasnt they gonna do seperate rankings? More than 1 external disqualifies you fro...
iirc they've put it in, but I don't recall
teal swift
Make sure you have an augmentation evoker
bleak breach
They go out of your log anyway now
I think I pulled 102k on details which I think was the top pull so thought i had it, but after Aug I was down to 97.5 or something like that
@tender cove
That’s the pull
tender cove
Have you guys ever contemplated over the fact how the white part of watermelon is really just a worse cucumber?
bleak breach
I just eat em from outside in
waxen frigate
iirc they've put it in, but I don't recall
correct
waxen frigate
All the top parses generally sit on 2 lots of pi
i think its more than like
if you get PI'd more than the CD
waxen frigate
no im saying i think thats how its set up
bleak breach
Ahh I see
bleak breach
@teal swift I would recommend crafting gear with shadowflame patch on them if you can and other then that, just look for gear with haste vers or crit on it. Easiest way to go about it
novel temple
Is the spore* cloak good now and good in the next patch for us?
jagged pier
Is the spore* cloak good now and good in the next patch for us?
If u can keep your hp above 70% all the time, so no
novel temple
If u can keep your hp above 70% all the time, so no
Rip, I thought it was good for high m+
pallid quiver
High M+ is extremely likely to be a no, I'd wager
since you do not often sit above the threshold
jagged pier
Rip, I thought it was good for high m+
just like now it will not be
tender cove
Free healthcare and subsided government caps on medicine and health related visits costs caps really never seems like a thing or valuable until you dont have it anymore. Just saying.
blazing condor
sweet summit
won't need healthcare if you don't get sick 🧠
blazing condor
Wont need food if you dont get hungry 😤
delicate oak
won't need healthcare if you don't get sick 🧠
hmmmm....interesting....i got cancer 2 years ago....need a shot every 28 days for the rest of my life...1 shot costs 3800 dollars.....glad i'm living in germany
teal swift
hmmmm....interesting....i got cancer 2 years ago....need a shot every 28 days fo...
I live in Canada, our healthcare is mid, but also good in chronic cases
So if that happened to me I'm sure I'd be fine
delicate oak
people underestimate healthcare and such
teal swift
With free healthcare comes great responsibilty
Before covid, emergency rooms were over run with random useless shit like their kid got the sniffles
After covid, ER is only for actual emergencies / trauma
delicate oak
it's not free over here but everyone has health insurance, it's automatically taken out of your paycheck.....but if you're written sick you still get payed
teal swift
Ah, it's just universal here,
It gets paid somewhere in the taxes
But everyone has access period
Nothing is ever free, someone is paying for it, or will pay for it in the future like all government spending
lavish sphinx
I hope Protection stays just as off topic and fun when Warr is meta
jagged pier
It doesnt
pallid quiver
From what little I saw, there's a ton of dooming and random hype that pops up that clutters any potential off topic chat
Based on early S1 Dragonflight, at least
jagged pier
Sane dumb questions every 5 mins
pallid quiver
and a lot of people complaining how war is useless against magic damage
jagged pier
Same dumb streamer takes that are always wrong
Ppl saying is garbage because they are takig damage
pallid quiver
even though spell reflect is available more often than I breathe on an average day
lavish sphinx
It’s all right, I’ll continue to bring the off topic like Yogi with the Doom videos
grim pilot
Being the fotm class is terrible
Yeah I want to feel terrible
jagged pier
U dont?
grim pilot
wouldn't mind that
jagged pier
I do everyday
grim pilot
lavish sphinx
I raising as shadow priest next tier so that’ll be my fix
waxen frigate
I do everyday
real
jagged pier
bleak breach
What’s the thoughts on spiked counterweight?
Could be really good for single target if the proc rate is good
There’s a lot of nice looking trinkets
Could actually be a useable tank trink for once too
urban portal
that "counter attacking all blows"
seems crazy
if it actually means 100% parry
240 main stat from procs arent bad either
jagged pier
urban portal
4581 every 3 seconds is like 1500 dps
strong forum
Okay so
strong forum
Ursine vengeance AT BEST procs every 3sec, less in ST cuz you don't get hit exactly every 3sec
strong forum
Ursine vengeance is an aoe trinket for when you proc it's max stacks in on many targets
Outside of that, the Str you get from it's stacks does not make up for actual trinkets
But it's not correctly implemented in Simc yet
bleak breach
Will be interesting
strong forum
So it's at best napkin math you're applying
bleak breach
Viable in M+ and heavy aoe?
urban portal
honestly
this is like top% of tank trinkets
tank trinkets this expac has been doodoo
bleak breach
Yeah it’s still probably the best actual tank trink we’ve seen
urban portal
valid only for tank specializations
bleak breach
Well listed as tank trink
strong forum
The best tank trinket
Is cheat death
Everything else next patch is not a trinket I wouldn't even classify as tank trinket
Legit nothing
bleak breach
I think we will mostly just run a combo of the Fyrakk trinkets with signet brand or maybe something from m+
Sadly, would be nice if the tank trink is our best option though
strong forum
The downfall of fyrakk trinket is that it's vers and not mainstat
bleak breach
Yep, I think we will run that in aoe and the crit one for ST
bleak breach
strong forum
Honestly don't know what's a solid 2nd trinket besides signet brand
bleak breach
Pewpew
bleak breach
I assume the Fyrakk ones are like a family? So can only use one or the other?
strong forum
How come
You don't choose anything on that trinket
The "friend" part
Has nothing to do with your actual party members
Or raid
It just rotates stats
From crit to mastery to vers
And then rotates back to crit
Unless they reworked the trinket
inland raft
Guess blizzards attempt at shaking up the stat stick of the tier but meh rather just pick it
bleak breach
Just massive amounts of stats randomly
Could equate to a lot of damage, will be interesting to see what goes to the top
timid edge
why my Impending Victory doesn't reset on kills on m+ ??
strong forum
it resets only if you kill the mob
not if a mob dies youre fighting
you have to literally do the last hit that actually kills the mob
strong forum
Impending victory?
strong forum
No you don't try to do that
Only if you desperately need to
Like it's just luck
Never something you plan or account for
timid edge
it would have been so cool if it resets when a mob dies not necessarily by the prot warr
strong forum
Then it would be broken beyond belief
Prior to 8.2, every explosive orb you killed granted victory rush
So prot warrior would literally be immortal during explosive week
Cuz you'd just kill every orb and heal for 25% hp
blazing condor
Luckily no one else tends to kill orbs so it was Easy to never die
sick sentinel
just gotta bring some ranged dps with instant cast to kill explosive
urban portal
healer mech
mortal dagger
Never something you plan or account for
@timid edge 1 of examples where it's very useful: pull in NL in 2nd boss area w/ hulk. U just 1shoting totems of casters to reset IV. Grants u way more survivability in the cringest pull of the dungeon
Bruh why I replied to u
normal rampart
it would have been so cool if it resets when a mob dies not necessarily by the p...
On big enough pulls your bleeds will get 1 or 2 you can anticipate and be ready for
daring marlin
So prot warrior would literally be immortal during explosive week
I miss that so much dude
blazing condor
just gotta bring some ranged dps with instant cast to kill explosive
Dps loss
modern brook
weary kiln
Hi, How does prot feels when it comes to raiding and m+ in current ptr?
warm plinth
Can't really say how any tank is in m+ because it's s2 scaling on the ptr I believe.
uneven mason
Hi, How does prot feels when it comes to raiding and m+ in current ptr?
Feels the same
toxic pewter
.. yikes..
mighty valley
they said ptr
teal swift
Uhh
cerulean tusk
Looks more or less right, but I would expect BDK to go into S with lego
mighty valley
also tier lists bad
toxic pewter
imagine unironically posting a screenshot of that websight anyway..gross
cerulean tusk
Warrior should go down to D tho
mighty valley
this kitty is NOT being funky
teal swift
teal swift
imagine unironically posting a screenshot of that websight anyway..gross
Websight
It's just based on maximum key
toxic pewter
are you ok in there
teal swift
What's the issue with it
toxic pewter
they asked people's opinions on how things are feeling on ptr and you just post incessant meaningless screenshots
mighty valley
people look at tier list and assume it limits the kind of content they're able to do
just pulling from data without analysis offers a warped perspective on the world
teal swift
they asked people's opinions on how things are feeling on ptr and you just post ...
Yep, whine about it more, your angst fuels me
mighty valley
you can use this lesson in your day to day life 👍
toxic pewter
Yep, whine about it more, your angst fuels me
O_o
teal swift
just pulling from data without analysis offers a warped perspective on the world
Second screenshot is roughly community perception on ptr lul
First one is how they are performing on live
I don't read good,so first is useless
mighty valley
not quite - it's how often they're picked, not how they're performing
teal swift
Shrugs
mighty valley
and the second is one streamer + their friends perspective on how things are feeling based on unfinalized ptr
toxic pewter
how do you feel about prot warr on ptr yuzu
teal swift
Just play #1 tank, it's suboptimal, gotta minmax to another class.
cerulean tusk
Yuzu, you had to create a new account?
mighty valley
so like. can be fun or useful to look through, but just pasting it as Facts is misleading
cerulean tusk
The hell ya do
teal swift
Yuzu, you had to create a new account?
No?
cerulean tusk
teal swift
I just came back to the discord after hiatus
teal swift
how do you feel about prot warr on ptr yuzu
Play literally anything you want is my opinion, the chances that it holds you back is insanely low
toxic pewter
have you played much on the ptr
teal swift
Pilot skill > Micro decisions
mighty valley
Play literally anything you want is my opinion, the chances that it holds you ba...
this is the truth, which is why you shouldn't jumpscare people with zero context tier lists lol
teal swift
And warrior is a fun hoppy boy, and can be a vulpera 
cerulean tusk
Just put everyone in F, on the tierlist
teal swift
Charge goes zoom
mighty valley
everyone is F for you're playing world of warcraft instead of doing anything else
teal swift
everyone is F for you're playing world of warcraft instead of doing anything els...
True, taking cat for walk
toxic pewter
🤔
teal swift
Has prot warrior been a popular tank since bfa? Numbers wise?
I lov prot warrior, sword and board Valhalla vibes
mighty valley
in early DF 9.0 it was the dominant pick
cerulean tusk
S1 of DF
teal swift
Oh cool
mighty valley
i don't think it's been popular across the entire population for a long time though
teal swift
I love the themeing and gameplay
mighty valley
i love "Normal Guy" but i don't think it's the most popular fantasy for your average gamer these days
toxic pewter
people only play it if it is considered OP. Other than that, it is the least played tank imo
teal swift
Take it from someone who walks theirncat
cerulean tusk
We were litterally so popular, we got nerfed what - 6 times in a row?
teal swift
cerulean tusk
We still bouncing back
teal swift
Prot warrior is fun, and can be vulpera
toxic pewter
ok
cerulean tusk
mighty valley
cats that go on walks are so funny
teal swift
cats that go on walks are so funny
She's a good girl,
That said, 4/6 of the tanks feel good to play
cerulean tusk
BDK feels amazeballs, rest are F tier
teal swift
BrM hopefully will feel good one day
But Brm has felt like dog water in keys
For as long as I can remember tbh
toxic pewter
na
mighty valley
it was pretty bonkers in SL s3/4 but overshadowed by bdk