protection

[strong forum]

i didnt make the T31 profile yet, but everything is in place

[uneven mason]

But nom is arguing with the apl he wrote

[chilly brook]

Arms was an A tier spec in BFA s4 in fairness

[modern brook]

if you scroll up a bit Nom was saying things are looking good

[strong forum]

it was good, but it wasnt firemage or BM hunter

and you just brought 2-3 BM hunters

[grim pilot]

meta =/= solid

[modern brook]

arms only required 80% haste to barely compete with other specs :^)

[strong forum]

cuz BM was turbo broken

[toxic pewter]

Wait.. will holy paladins be able to use the legendary anyone know

[strong forum]

no

they wont

it wont have intelligence

[toxic pewter]

They may forgo int

[plush tendon]

doenst mean they cant use it

[strong forum]

yeah uhuh

hpal

without shield

without int weapon

[toxic pewter]

5 legendary inc

[chilly brook]

There’s been a few patches where arms or Fury have been A tier dps picks in m+

[plush tendon]

but with lego

[uneven mason]

How will the ret paladins tie their shoes now

[grim pilot]

pre aug war dps was A tier but still not meta

[chilly brook]

This last season prior to the addition of Aug, warrior was legit S tier

[grim pilot]

SP was meta

[toxic pewter]

2 dk, 2 pal, 1 war meta inc

[strong forum]

it was so S-tier that neither nerf nor andy played it

[inland raft]

Has rets st issue been addressed? Dont think leggo will make up for how lackluster it is especially in m+ where they can go from 400k aoe to 60k st

[modern brook]

bitch to blizzard till hey get loafers baseline

[grim pilot]

vdh was pretty meta

[inland raft]

Idk anything about new patch

[lusty grotto]

ret ST issue?

i do fine on chipadin

[strong forum]

they played spriest+mage/boomkin+enha/rogue

[opaque quest]

Ret doesnt have an ST issue if they get some haste

[plush tendon]

all you need to know is legendary

[lusty grotto]

do you mean crusading strikes? cause that go fixed early in s2

[plush tendon]

gonna get this legendary axe and then gonna get shadowmourne in Wrath.... itll take some time, but then Ill have two legendarys!

[strong forum]

what do you wanna know?

[grim pilot]

ret has TERRIBLE st in m+

[lusty grotto]

well yes

they are hyper focused

[grim pilot]

it has extremely low skill floor and probably the lowest st in the game

[lusty grotto]

hyper focused tree

basically all end talents of the spec tree

[strong forum]

ret only does 1 or the other

[plush tendon]

very durable though

[lusty grotto]

no myrt

[strong forum]

cant do both reliably

only ST or AOE

but not both

[warm plinth]

something seems off here

[lusty grotto]

rets just dont go ST spec for keys so thats it

[grim pilot]

ye but that's the issue

you have either one or the other

so the outcome is either literally no aoe or giga trash st

[inland raft]

Thats the issue was talking about. Doubt leggo will make up for that so unless the kit was made so they fan compromise more towards middle dont see them beint meta even with a leggo

[lusty grotto]

thats called being hyperfocused

[delicate stream]

i was gonna start my spreadsheet stuff so i know what to farm for in terms of dungeons... work out what dungeons others need so i know who to group with in my guild etc... just my normal stuff 😄

[strong forum]

uuuh

that kind of list we wont do

you gotta check wowhead/icyveins for that

they are still forced to write bis lists

ill just compile whatever sims best for t31

[uneven mason]

A bis list

[inland raft]

Bis lists are a thing of the pass

[uneven mason]

Big pass

[opaque quest]

For dps there is a theoretical bis list

[inland raft]

Now we just sim and go with whatever is upgrade

[opaque quest]

But that includes getting every 450 drop

And every M+ item in 447

Soooo not realistic

[uneven mason]

Warrior bis list
More > not more

[toxic pewter]

Still can’t believe they made a legendary that only 1 tank and 1 healer can use. Feelsbadman

[strong forum]

?

not a single healer

will use it

[toxic pewter]

Dunno

[strong forum]

thats not a dunno

it doesnt have int

[lusty grotto]

come spam with us

[delicate stream]

its a targetted farming list from dungeons for me, i dont do a "bis" list as tertiary/ sockets/ ilvl etc exists. but its still okay to target farm specific items that you like 🙂

[strong forum]

a healer will lose like 20% throughput

[toxic pewter]

Crazier things have happened

[strong forum]

not for healers

[toxic pewter]

I saw druids lose agi

[strong forum]

YES

A DPS

BUT NOT A HEALER

[uneven mason]

I had a 2m avg queue take an hour

[strong forum]

healers are entirely different

[toxic pewter]

It depends on the effect

[strong forum]

20% of their stat budget

comes from weapons

[toxic pewter]

It’s definitely still up in the air

In my opinion

[strong forum]

its not

[chilly brook]

It’s not

[strong forum]

absolutely isnt

[delicate stream]

hpal wont use the legendary wep

[chilly brook]

You’re dumb

[opaque quest]

apb has insane opinions

And most of them are wrong

[uneven mason]

Which is wrong

[strong forum]

a healer

has never once

in history of wow

[toxic pewter]

Time will tell

[strong forum]

not used an int weapon

[toxic pewter]

I’m ok with being wrong

The question is are you all

[chilly brook]

We know that

[inland raft]

Proc would have to be so insanely broken to be considered that the weapon would be nerfed into the ground before first reset

[chilly brook]

Because you’re always wrong

[strong forum]

the weapon has to do the absolutely craziest most broken thing in the history of videos games to do

[toxic pewter]

I am wrong except when I am right

[strong forum]

to be worth

for a healer

[chilly brook]

And when was that?

[strong forum]

to lose a gigantic part of his throughtput and defensive capabilties

[uneven mason]

Oh but nom I healed an entire afternoon on my druid while using my guardian gear, because oops

[opaque quest]

Who needs throughput if you can do 5k more dps

kekW

[strong forum]

thats called trolling ikari 😄

[toxic pewter]

I’m not trolling, crazier things have happened in life where weapon swap occurs

But ok I will admit it’s mostly unlikely

[strong forum]

not

for int users

never once

[inland raft]

And i tanked with a int weapon once on pally, the weapon int failed to make me a smart man

[strong forum]

its only a bear

or feral

or surv hunter

trying to use gavel

[toxic pewter]

Ok historically it’s true it doesn’t happen for int people

[strong forum]

because they only lose 3% stats

for an overpowered effect

a HEALER

[uneven mason]

Inting

[strong forum]

loses 20% stats

not 3%

20%

and FOR THAT

to come from a str weapon

[plush tendon]

a Orange Wep ❤️

[strong forum]

it would basically mean

you remove every single dps from the game

that cant use that legendary

[toxic pewter]

I have made my prediction. I leave it in gods hands now

[strong forum]

god(scarizard)s hands

if he pulls a weapon like that

[opaque quest]

I predict our battle against global warming ends tomorrow and we win while the earth cools down 20C

Thats not a prediction

Its lunacy

[toxic pewter]

I predicted shield charge was gonna be widely used when everyone was hating on it

[opaque quest]

And dumb

[strong forum]

i think he'll lose his job

[uneven mason]

Wat

[toxic pewter]

Back in beta

[strong forum]

shield charge was OP since day1

what youre referring to

[toxic pewter]

Everyone hated it in its first iteration

[strong forum]

is battering ram

before it got mega buffed

[uneven mason]

☝️

[strong forum]

shield charge

was always mega locked in

[toxic pewter]

Nah even shield charge itself everyone hated

[strong forum]

nobody hated shield charge apb

[toxic pewter]

I’m too lazy to go back and find the messages

[strong forum]

we loved it

cuz it was off-gcd

in its first iteration

what we didnt like

was battering ram

cuz it was underpowered in early beta

[toxic pewter]

No when the trees came out before even playing people disliked shield charge

[strong forum]

and

yes

wanna know why?

[toxic pewter]

I thought it would own

[strong forum]

cuz you had to spend 2 talent points in focused vigor

[uneven mason]

Remember when seismic was creating looped revenges

[toxic pewter]

And I was right

[median tulip]

'cos it was shit in the first iteration

[strong forum]

WHICH WAS ONLY ARMOR AND STAM BACK THEN

we couldnt pick shield charge

because focused vigor was swapped with enduring alacrity

and cost 2 talent points

to talent down to shield charge

[toxic pewter]

I have a strong pro shield charge track record and I stand by it

[median tulip]

Does anything change with any Enchants in 10.2?

[strong forum]

dunno yet havent checked

sure but you liked it when it was objectively a bad choice to pick with said old talent tree

thats an entirely different situation

thats like saying BDK was good in SL s3/s4 because of haste scaling

xdd

[toxic pewter]

I stand by my position

[opaque quest]

It was. Who cares about 100% DRW uptime /s

[toxic pewter]

Bdk haste was out of control also if I recall correctly

That is true

Their haste situation

[opaque quest]

DK was meta because of DRW legy and Tset nothing else

They couldve gone naked

[plush tendon]

Haste wasnt a reason why they were strong; it become bloods best stat to fuel the 4 set. But theres nothing about haste stacking blood dk that makes it op

a OP tier set is what made it OP

it was OP regardless of haste levels

[toxic pewter]

I am a known anti haste individual so if it was up to me I would remove the stat altogether

[median tulip]

you're a known haver of bad opinions, though

[toxic pewter]

I mean it is true majority of people disagree with me most of the time

I cannot deny that

[strong forum]

the issue is

that people have brought up the argument in the past

that "ah yeah BDK good in last patch cuz of stats"

when they completely ignored what made BDKs actually good

which is tuning/tierset/OP items

[toxic pewter]

I agree it was mainly their tier set to be honest

[strong forum]

not mainly

exclusively

[toxic pewter]

Tuning too though

Yeah

[strong forum]

thats like saying

yeah pwar in SL only got good in s3/s4

cuz of stats

cuz it was so "bad" in s1

[toxic pewter]

I mean you just said tuning and tier though I agree with you

[strong forum]

yes

its not due to some linear increase that everybody in the game gets

[median tulip]

Shadowlands Season 1 SUCKED DOCKEY BALLS

[strong forum]

everybody can agree on that

[median tulip]

Best Raid tho

M+ was dogshit

[toxic pewter]

Shadowlands better than df though. History will look back in this way

[lusty grotto]

ye CN was great

[median tulip]

Nathria in S4 was amazing fun

[toxic pewter]

S4 owned hard

[lusty grotto]

yup

[strong forum]

feel like shit just want her back

[median tulip]

But Nathria was the best raid of SL by a country mile. Voice Acting, Boss Design, Raid Layout, the works

[strong forum]

CN felt like a great setup for the expansion and coming raids

[toxic pewter]

The voice acting was superb

[opaque quest]

Denathrius needs to come back

[median tulip]

Denathrius should have been the Big Bad Guy of the whole expansion

[opaque quest]

Only interesting villain since Arthas

[strong forum]

but then they decided to throw in SoD with some terrible fights and random shit

[sick sentinel]

denathrius needs to come back but hes still very mysterious and a dickhead

[strong forum]

and then the WTF that sepu was

the raid tier that was 2 raids smushed together

with absolute horrid lore

[median tulip]

SoD was just terrible.
"Let's have a raid where half of every progression raid is taken up walking."
"Good idea, how about the final boss fight"
"Oh let's have a big section of that involves walking too"

[strong forum]

and KT

or fatescribe

or nerzhul, who also was a big fucking deal lore wise

just a random ass hat boss

[toxic pewter]

Yeah nerzhul was the original lich king

Lol

And they made him just launch people off platform boss

[strong forum]

and Gul Dans mentor

and the "epic and planned out return of arthas" in sepu

was just his light being squished

👏

real epic conclusion

[opaque quest]

So glad i skipped everything except 9.0

[toxic pewter]

[strong forum]

like

arthas was so hyped up by everybody

[toxic pewter]

They did arthas more dirty than any character in wow history

[strong forum]

and then it was just a bug being squished

[opaque quest]

Well Arthas wasnt Sylvanas Tyrande or Jaina

Ofc he doesnt matter

Its strong independent wamen or nothing

[toxic pewter]

Wish they just kept arthas out of it

[strong forum]

literally anything but what they did

[toxic pewter]

Yea

[strong forum]

like they wasted so many characters in SL

[bleak breach]

Shadowlands is only Xpac I’ve never played

[strong forum]

you didnt miss anything lorewise

[opaque quest]

Shadowlands has the only curves i dont have since curves exist

[bleak breach]

Was just super burnt out by that stage and all my friends quit so stopped playing.

[strong forum]

but gameplay wise it was prot warriors peak in 9.2+

[bleak breach]

Wasn’t even a break, was never coming back, but here we are haha

😦

Best I’ve seen us was probably legion with original IP

[toxic pewter]

The whole anduin is arthas plot thing was weird too

[bleak breach]

Obviously didn’t play shadowlands

[opaque quest]

Original IP just being a shield

[bleak breach]

@strong forum what was different? If there’s like a quick way to say it without wasting heaps of your time

90% of damage though

[strong forum]

phew

so

compared to legion

or compared to now?

[bleak breach]

Just now I guess

[strong forum]

basically
rotational prio is the same but we had to manage alot more

our tierset was outburst, but avatar ALSO procced outburst

ontop of that

you had to charge weave to generate rage and get shieldblock up from a legendary

intervene and charge granted you 4sec of SB, gave you 20 rage and gave you a free revenge proc

then you had a covenant ability called necrolord banner which gave you ~14% mastery 20% str (through another system) and 4 rage per second for 15 seconds

we had a legendary that would increase the duration of necrobanner by 1(?) sec per 20 rage that we spend

if you played prot warrior, the charge legendary and outburst REALLY WELL you could keep banner up infinitely

thats why it was so fun

you had to manage 4 things at once, but if you could pull that off you did massive dmg and were extremely tanky

[median tulip]

Banner was amazing if you were good at it

[strong forum]

was extremely rewarding

was 10x harder than any other tank

but insanely fun

[median tulip]

Actual rewarding gameplay for being good? In my WoW?

[strong forum]

it was too hard for most

thats why they got rid of it

but im glad to have experienced it

[waxen frigate]

I’d say 10x harder than any other spec in the game

[strong forum]

probably

dunno

firemage is always a bit tricky

the gap between an alright and a god firemage

were magnitudes

[opaque quest]

RIght now rewarding good play just means higher number in details

[toxic pewter]

I like df talent trees and all but it not as fun as sl warrior was. For me stances also part of that I won’t lie

I don’t mean to bring up stance situation though

[hardy snow]

so, today we had another raid evening

guess what

another +22

[blazing condor]

brother

just let it go

[strong forum]

thats about 250 pulls more than i'd be willing to do

ngl

do you guys atleast see progress?

[hardy snow]

kind of

the main issue is lack of focus

so we can have some good pulls

and then wipe in p1 or p2

[strong forum]

is it the good ol case of

[blazing condor]

wwas like that for us in the sylvanas prog

[strong forum]

"just get everybody into p3 with 2 CRs left and the boss is dead"?

[blazing condor]

our sludgefist was like that too

"we just need the perfect run"

always someone died

[strong forum]

most bosses were like that

get into last phase

with everyone alive

and boss dies

[median tulip]

Sludgefist was such a good fight

[strong forum]

yup

[opaque quest]

Thats the exact reason why i no longer raid in a guidl

When ppl dont focus i just leave

cba i dont have the patience anymore

[strong forum]

i mostly just cba playing on a schedule

and i also dont wanna play with people who put in less effort than me

nothing worse than raiding whilst carrying 10-15 players

[blazing condor]

yeah

ppl didnt even do any m+ in my guild

so no vault

and stuff like that

[strong forum]

same

[median tulip]

I don't mind mid-season HC runs with Alts and Carries

[strong forum]

HC is entirely different

thats just lmao have a good time and bants

cuz shit dies anyway

but mythic prog raiding

i want people to actually play the game

[delicate stream]

flex for mythic tbh... would be so good.. 10man raiding so much easier to deal with then 20

[median tulip]

Yeah, the most difficult thing about Mythic Raiding is getting EXACTLY 20 ppl

[strong forum]

The issue with flex is

People will abuse it

And it's not easy to balance

[lusty tiger]

It’s a toxic system that promotes having bench players or having to call off raid for 1 person

[delicate stream]

yeah defs

[strong forum]

For the "peak difficulty" having variables in how stuff needs to be tuned

[median tulip]

I would be fine with them delaying flex until RFWF was finished. Or even the HoF

[strong forum]

How many mechanics go out

Etc

Will be abused "yeah okay here we play 12 instead of 13 cuz we get 1 orb less"

Type bullshit

Impossible to balance

[delicate stream]

yeah agreed, but outside of the RWF for more "casual" guilds it would be a great system

[strong forum]

It works for hc and lower cuz it's not meant to be peak difficulty

[strong forum]

But that's what hc is for then

Right like

Where do you make the distinction

It's a whole can of worms

Fake mythic and Real mythic

[dusky canopy]

Well sorta, they could just make all mechanics static and independent of player count

[strong forum]

Then you just bring as many as you can anyway

[dusky canopy]

They would adjust numbers based on party size

And not always true because a crowded room is sometimes harder

[strong forum]

Then youd run into cutting out the shitters

Cuz it makes the fight easier again

[delicate stream]

yeah for me, i dont find heroic difficult, but then go into mythic and ur either forced to carry people who shouldnt be there OR people dont show up and you dont have a bench or something end up having to pug and then ur carrying someone/ teaching etc

[dusky canopy]

I mean it’s kinda already that way in mythic raiding

You don’t bring the guy making the same mistake for 100 pulls you bench him and bring in the next

[strong forum]

Yeah so why go through the trouble of making a flex difficulty

Ykno

[dusky canopy]

Accessibility

[delicate stream]

flex for mythic would never work, its just a nice thought tho

[dusky canopy]

For smaller groups of friends

[strong forum]

Its the hardest type of content

If you cant conform to what it entails

Then it ain't for you

Don't get me wrong, I dont like 20man raiding either

But flex ain't it

[delicate stream]

its good as an idea but lacks execution to be practical

[dusky canopy]

I do agree with that, you conform to the challenge

[lusty tiger]

I mean it is quite regressive to force 20 person groups

[dusky canopy]

But requiring 20 people is a dog requirement imo

“Roster boss”

[bleak breach]

Sounds fun

[dusky canopy]

Should not really be a thing

[strong forum]

I'd prefer 12/13

But ah well

[lusty tiger]

Why do I have to have bench players

[inland raft]

Bring back 10 mans

[delicate stream]

hey cutie 😄 😄

[bleak breach]

I wouldn’t mind something added to prot, but I’m not upset either.

[bleak breach]

Wowee

Joined the chaos @delicate stream

[strong forum]

Cuz you want more players than you need, cuz life still exists

[blazing condor]

rate my new PB

[delicate stream]

yep had to, tanking for a team next tier 😮 @bleak breach

[bleak breach]

https://tenor.com/view/jonton-10-ten-gif-12272861

[lusty tiger]

Well that means there have to be raiders that don’t get lockouts every time they show up to raid

[dusky canopy]

They realistically can never reduce mythic party size because people already bitch about not having a raid spot

[strong forum]

Correct

[lusty tiger]

That is literally not fair in the sense of a game you pay for

[strong forum]

Our guild had 25-28 raiders

[bleak breach]

Let me know if you ever need help with anything. Happy to help. I don’t do a lot of keys these days, but have decent numbers in raid.

[strong forum]

Be better and you get a core spot

[lusty tiger]

You know this isn’t necessarily the case in every guild with bench players

[dusky canopy]

The guild I’m with has 3-4 new spots every raid night practically

[strong forum]

We rotated trials out

[bleak breach]

Mythic is a skill based experience, if you bring underperforming players you won’t kill anything.

[delicate stream]

Yeah im just spooked for the amount of keys i need to do cause got prot(hati) and the aug(floki) @bleak breach but was checking thru the builds and stuff, seems like going back to an old main will be fun 😄

[strong forum]

2-4 each week

Core players were always in

Trials were in 2-3 weeks at a time

[bleak breach]

If you’re not in the main team of a good guild go elsewhere, but expect less.

[strong forum]

But always as backup

[bleak breach]

It’s a rough cycle, but how it works.

[strong forum]

In case somebody can't make it

And regularily

1-3 people couldn't make it

Each raid

That's just how it goes

[hardy snow]

just make it flex 15-20 after HoF is closed

[opaque quest]

Make it 10-20

I can bring 10 friends together that have brain

[strong forum]

And if you fell below 90% attendance you got yeeted

[opaque quest]

Not 15 😄

[strong forum]

Simple as that

[lusty tiger]

Surely there is a findable workaround to this poor design though

[bleak breach]

Prot is relatively easy to learn, there’s not a great deal of difficulty. ST and aoe are basically the same and there’s a few WA that simplify everything.

[strong forum]

Ideally you only have 20 raiders

And everybody Shows up all the time

But this isn't a perfect world

People don't show up, have other things to do, get sick

Etc etc

[delicate stream]

Yeah raided prot for prog prior, done a fair bit of mythic on it too... shouldnt be too bad, been a long time since ive been able to tank for a team fulltime tho 😮

[bleak breach]

It’s a hard cycle, like Nom said. But you need more then 20 available because you nearly never have perfect attendance.

[lusty tiger]

Right and knowing that, why do they keep designing it to have a few players all the way to an entire raid team fucked by that

[strong forum]

Cuz it's the highest difficulty

It has a set ruleset

If you can't abide by that ruleset

[lusty tiger]

It’s not even about the difficulty of the game at that point though

[strong forum]

But it is

[lusty tiger]

It’s a logistical difficulty

[blazing condor]

its tough to design mythic bosses around a floating raid size

cus something on 10 man might be piss easy and something on 30 man might be easy

depending on mechanics

[delicate stream]

I recruited a raid team from 8 players to 27 in like 6 weeks, got a bunch of them their first ever mythic kills, then got called toxic/ power hungry cause ud have to bench certain players etc and no1 likes being benched, cant see the bigger picture in those more "introductory" type of teams

[bleak breach]

The roster boss and difficulty of mythic are fairly equal, but not everyone can get CE or everyone would. It’s extremely difficult.

[lusty tiger]

I would wager this is what we pay blizzard to do

[bleak breach]

As a person who’s ran a guild and been a raid lead in many teams I am with you @lusty tiger I wish it was flexible. But there’s the old saying, can only root with the dick you’ve got.

[strong forum]

Again, mythic raid is the pinnacle content of wow it comes with its own ruleset that you have to conform to

Blizzard makes the rules

[bleak breach]

Blizz gives us 20, so we’re constantly stuff with this awkward scenario

[blazing condor]

the ppl that do mythic raid is also like the 2% of playerbase

[bleak breach]

Probably smaller lol

[lusty tiger]

I 100% get that but it doesn’t have to be this way if they would just find a solution lol

[dusky canopy]

The two biggest hurdles to CE imo are
A knowledgeable/thorough raid lead
A consistent roster

[strong forum]

It's up to them if they want to find a solution

[dusky canopy]

If your guild has those you will get cutting edge

[strong forum]

They don't want everybody to just stroll into mythic raid like it's nothing

It's supposed to be a feat

The logistical hurdle

[delicate stream]

if you were to reduce the size, youd need to reduce the loot level too like old school 10 man vs 25 man etc... the difficulties are very different and dont deserve thhe same rewards

[strong forum]

Is part of that

[hardy snow]

it supposed to be hard and not done by everyone

[strong forum]

Just because it's not a mechanical ingame problem

Doesn't mean it's created with intent

Ykno

[blazing condor]

same reason you got mythic lockouts and stuff

[bleak breach]

Kinda, not that simple. CE is ridiculously hard. Every player has to be performing in the top 5-10% of all players and even then it’s hard.

[delicate stream]

its one of those "it would be nice" things, but its not practical or feasible, nor should it be done

[strong forum]

It would be nice because it made it alot easier

Thus accessible

[blazing condor]

honestly just make lfr for mythic

[strong forum]

It's an arbitrary barrier created for a reason

[blazing condor]

[bleak breach]

Just imagine

[strong forum]

A computational reason

[bleak breach]

Que for mythic

[chilly brook]

It’s not like smaller raid sizes don’t cause their own issues

Especially in a game with almost 40? Specs

[opaque quest]

We struggled with the 3 stuns per pack requirement on Garrosh HC

In 10 man

[bleak breach]

It can, but 10m is and always has been the easiest form of raiding

[opaque quest]

25 was free

[bleak breach]

I’d much rather 10-12 then 25-30 for prog

[strong forum]

So would I cuz it's easier to find 10-12 capable players

[chilly brook]

Idk like I’ve never had an issue with 20 man

[bleak breach]

^

[strong forum]

But then Blizzard has to up the difficulty as counter measure

[chilly brook]

Other than sometimes roster boss

[strong forum]

Which I would personally also like

But

[bleak breach]

That’s the issue though

[chilly brook]

But I’ve never been sat

[strong forum]

Most people wouldn't

🙂

[bleak breach]

Roster boss and getting 20 players at the top levels

[delicate stream]

cant wait to do normal and heroic with the 30man tho @bleak breach KEKW xD hopefully we can blitz aotc and just get into mythic asap tbh LOL

[chilly brook]

I mean I don’t see it being an issue

[bleak breach]

There’s a big difference between trying to get 1-5 mythic and CE

[strong forum]

Im looking forward to meme in hc with my friends

[chilly brook]

I’ve very rarely not raider because of lack of players

[gloomy ferry]

can i come

[chilly brook]

Like I can count on one hand

[strong forum]

Can you heal

We need healers

[gloomy ferry]

fuck no

[bleak breach]

Hopefully haha, we’re all fairly geared.

[blazing condor]

i can last stand

[gloomy ferry]

if it was 5 people in a time based instanced dungeon yes

very well

if theres more then 5 game over man cant do that

[chilly brook]

And yes I’ve achieved CE

[delicate stream]

i can heal on my hpal... ill need the lego first tho KEKW

[strong forum]

Call me when you have it

[gloomy ferry]

is it for wotlk or retail

[strong forum]

Retail

[gloomy ferry]

i counter offer you with i'll play enhance and heal every 2 minutes

[strong forum]

I Dont play outdated wow

[blazing condor]

i just play dated wow

[chilly brook]

All playing wrath has done for me is reinforce that retail is the better game

[hardy snow]

Ive played wotlk classic just to get mount from promo

[strong forum]

Same

[dusky canopy]

Same same

[gloomy ferry]

but yea i cant heal sorry cant healer carry

you let me know if i a dps spot opens up tho i come we ball

[delicate stream]

only thing i dont like in current iteration of retail is the professions, the whole thing of if u missed a week of weekly collectibles/ quests ur perma behind

[strong forum]

You don't like clearing a raid in your first night in 50minutes whilst doing a 1-3 button rotation and then log off until next week?

[opaque quest]

Youre not tho. If youre a week behind a spark just drops on the first thing you do

[chilly brook]

Ha if only

[dusky canopy]

Shocking init

[chilly brook]

You give the group I play with too much credit

Boomers boomer too hard

[lusty tiger]

Just a little taste of wow

[blazing condor]

back in the day u could at least blame your pc

but now

just give up if you cant dodge a swirl

[delicate stream]

im not talking about crafting a piece of gear... im talking about the actual knowledge for the professions

[lusty tiger]

💯

[opaque quest]

Oh that

[strong forum]

My loadscreen into wrath naxx Was literally 10-15 min

[blazing condor]

monka

[opaque quest]

Ye crafting knowledge at the beginning of DF was mega ass

[chilly brook]

I had to bring up the fact that when I ask for Salv on the start of the pull that I literally mean RIGHT OFF THE BAT to our holy paladin

[dusky canopy]

Holy shit nom!

[chilly brook]

3 times

[strong forum]

Still got undying title tho

[chilly brook]

And still didn’t get it

[cerulean tusk]

[coarse stump]

Do we know, what embelishment we wanna play in 10.2? Or cant we tell that for now ?

[blazing condor]

as a kid id have legit 1 frame every 30 seconds in stormwind/orgrimmar.
i would get on a zeppelin to undercity and travel back and forth 3 times because of the loading screen

[chilly brook]

Like holy shit bro I’m a warlock getting tricks, I need salv

[opaque quest]

The one dude i always play wow with still uses a HDD. When he logs out a char in valdrakken im waiting 5 mins for him

[strong forum]

Probably sporecloak + shadowflame

But Sims will tell soon tm

[coarse stump]

oh ok so just wait more ?

[strong forum]

And by soon I mean weekend before e3

[blazing condor]

UFFB got nerfed?

[grim pilot]

Why sporecloak? Something changed?

[cerulean tusk]

I would guess sporecloak+wrists :3

[strong forum]

Sporecloak gets mega buffed

[grim pilot]

lol I thought they were nerfing it

[blazing condor]

didnt they just nerf it

[grim pilot]

idk why

[strong forum]

They mega buff it

The absorb remains piss

But the vers buff above 70%

[chilly brook]

Sporecloak is gross on tanks

[grim pilot]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/undulating-sporecloaks-shield-nerfed-in-patch-10-2-335050

[strong forum]

Will be 2.5% worth of vers

[grim pilot]

k I can see it why

[dusky canopy]

The Vers

[grim pilot]

ye that's kinda pog

[strong forum]

The vers is way too much

2.5%

[blazing condor]

yeah thats worth

[strong forum]

For borderline free

[blazing condor]

a whopping 1.25% more damage

[chilly brook]

Don’t disagree but it’s still gross

[strong forum]

Is wayy too much

[grand veldt]

I love vers

[strong forum]

Yeah I hate it too

[delicate stream]

flat mit/ flat dmg increase kinda big

[strong forum]

But yeah

We'll see with Sims

[blazing condor]

i still got fangs on my wep lol

cus i didnt wanna spend money on shadowflame

and just recrafted my 418

[delicate stream]

we'd use the wep from vrykul or w/e right? its like a buffed version of forgestorm ?

[last mason]

on ptr where does prot fall in terms of st

[strong forum]

Gholak

The weapon we'll use is called gholak

It's turbo bis

[opaque quest]

The axe?

[strong forum]

Ye

[dusky canopy]

Ooooo shit!

New POGweapon

[strong forum]

And this one isn't rng

[sick sentinel]

so basically sporecloak is worst thing for BDK cuz they are constantly 50% hp anyways ping pong hp par

Kappa

[strong forum]

Yes

[bleak breach]

Hawwww yeah

[blazing condor]

are any raid trinkets worth

[strong forum]

Yes

[bleak breach]

I love a random monster pull because Forgestorm goes bananas though

[strong forum]

Signet brand and augury

[bleak breach]

Fyrakk trink is insane

The one for dps

[strong forum]

That's augury

And it's not as insane as signet is

Signet is way stronger

[bleak breach]

The tank one will be really nice when in constant aoe

Which one signet? I only know them from visuals

[strong forum]

Fyrakk rage fire heart got nerfed

[bleak breach]

Didn’t read the ptr names lol

[strong forum]

Signet brand is the... Mechanical

Thingy

[blazing condor]

🤖

[strong forum]

It's turbo OP

[opaque quest]

All i can think about is gorlock the destroyer when i hear the name

[blazing condor]

i think of gurthalak

from DS

[bleak breach]

Oh yep found it

[opaque quest]

Oh god i want Gurthalak back

[median tulip]

1.25% defensive effect?

[bleak breach]

Knew what it was, just not by name haha

[delicate stream]

I honestly thought we'd be chasing spiked counterweight for raid

[bleak breach]

@strong forum any idea what embellishments we will be running next tier yet? Or not really sorted?

[opaque quest]

Good thing this wasnt asked 2 minutes ago

[dusky canopy]

[cerulean tusk]

@strong forum, parrygodx any idea what embellishments we will be running next tier yet? Or not really sorted?

[bleak breach]

Sorry haha

[dusky canopy]

Beat me to it

[bleak breach]

So many comments I normally don’t read back

[opaque quest]

Sporecloak and Shadowflame most likely

Sims not done yet

[cerulean tusk]

Sporecloak and wrists

[opaque quest]

Wrists no max dps

[toxic pewter]

Why sporecloak all of a sudden

[delicate stream]

if its wrists ima be depresso thats where my flavour pocket is atm

[opaque quest]

Cause vers

[bleak breach]

Vers

[opaque quest]

Why isnt it on ring like every other sane person

[bleak breach]

We don’t drop below 30% hp often unless we die, so will keep good uptime

[toxic pewter]

Oh cuz tier set does better with verse or wat

[bleak breach]

Everything does better with vers

[delicate stream]

cause i didnt find good wrists and had good rings

[median tulip]

I would expect that Sporecloak change to get nerfed

[dusky canopy]

No it’s because the cloak gives a large amount of Vers

[toxic pewter]

Oh did they change sporecloak

[bleak breach]

Yep

[toxic pewter]

Oh cool

What’s the deal with this helmet I keep hearing about. Is that an embellishment

[bleak breach]

Heals and gives vers above x% then gives the shield below 30

Yeah, new embellishment. Can’t remember exactly what it was though

[dusky canopy]

An entire 20 man wearing new spore cloak probably has big value honestly

[hardy snow]

new embelish gives crit I think

[dusky canopy]

At least for prog

[chilly brook]

Sporecloak probably required for prog now

[dusky canopy]

Specially since they nerfing all the dps ones that are good

[median tulip]

I would like to know how much parrycritical strike this gives:

[chilly brook]

It’s essentially a vantus rune now

Except you’ll have it for every boss

[dusky canopy]

Not only that but the oh shit heal when you dip low

[bleak breach]

Should be really good for us

[strong forum]

Has been nerfed into the floor

[median tulip]

Boo :(

[strong forum]

Has an icd of 30sec

If you dip below 70 for a second, you lose the crit for 30sec

And at max stacks it's only 2% worth of crit

[dusky canopy]

Oo that’s turbo bad

[median tulip]

Ooof

[strong forum]

So it's just worse than sporecloak

[median tulip]

I mean it'll probably be ok for M+ but a lot of Raid bosses tankbusters will make that worthless

[strong forum]

It's still less stats

360 crit at max stacks

On 486ilvl item

[dusky canopy]

Yeah it’s dog

[strong forum]

It's just bad

[lusty grotto]

garbanzo beans

[median tulip]

What about this?

[dusky canopy]

Dog

[strong forum]

Dunno

But prolly turbo bad aswell

[median tulip]

and is this triggered by Ignore Pain?

[opaque quest]

So glad i just lost bomb spender to a fucking BM on my Brew

Holy shit

[strong forum]

Didn't check that either

Not everything around those patches is figured out

The things I specified I only know cuz other TCs researched em

And I did a looksie

[wind oak]

embrace the sporecloak

it is time !

[strong forum]

Now you just gotta make sure not to drop below 70%!

[dusky canopy]

That time it is

[toxic tiger]

does prot war has threat issues in ST or is it me? regarding the co tank

[opaque quest]

Its you

How can you have threat issues in ST when taunt gives you 403429340ß9342% threat boost

[toxic tiger]

wdym? should i just spam taunt the whole time?

[pallid quiver]

No, you need to press your buttons

[opaque quest]

^

[pallid quiver]

What he means is that after a taunt swap, you should end up so far ahead that the other tank can't rip it off you

Loke, even if you're 400 ilvl and they're 440, you can still manage to keep aggro against another tank

[toxic tiger]

that cant be man wtf

i am pressing my buttons but my druid co tank is ripping threat sometimes

[pallid quiver]

Post a log and we'll tell you what buttons need to be oressed more

[real wren]

the only weirdness i experienced with threat this tier is if my cotank beaconed and crit a short while after i taunted

[pallid quiver]

But you're likely eating SS resets

[real wren]

outside of that you just gotta do more dam

[pallid quiver]

And if you're close in ilvl, sitting on GCDs

[toxic tiger]

we are the exact same ilevel

[lusty tiger]

@waxen frigate

[toxic tiger]

i dont have a log rn where he ripped aggro, i guess its me lol

[pallid quiver]

It can be any log; your overall play is likely the problem

[lusty grotto]

a log will help you more than you think

maybe someone logged?

search for your character

[toxic tiger]

well i do have many logs, just not one where i know he ripped aggro

here https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/cbFVHqW9BTvNZ4Qm

[lusty grotto]

also no to spamming taunt, you'll make it immune to due to taunt dr

[toxic tiger]

ye i know, thats why i was confused

[pallid quiver]

Heads up, I'm on mobile and work shitternet, so I'll be a bit

[lusty grotto]

im checking

[pallid quiver]

But I'll get on it once it loads

[lusty grotto]

damage breakdown seems okay

gotta check outbursts

and compare gear

[toxic tiger]

i use many outbursts on TC because i dont know what to do when i have one ready but SS is on cd

do i just wait?

[lusty grotto]

use revenge

fish for a proc

that shouldn't happen often though

[toxic tiger]

usually its around 50%

[lusty grotto]

keep SB up

its sub 90%

it buffs your SS damage, remember

[toxic tiger]

right

[waxen frigate]

that's on god no kizzy

[real wren]

are you losing threat at specific parts of a particular boss or is it an intermittent and kinda random thing

[lusty grotto]

i mean

you have a really bad ilvl weap

[toxic tiger]

huh?

[lusty grotto]

comapred to a 450 rashok waep

oh crafted doesnt report correct ilvl, i forgot

[toxic tiger]

yea its 447

[lusty grotto]

idk it seems youre playing correctly at a glance

let me finish this TW

[toxic tiger]

its not like its all the time, its really hard to say when it happens, maybe its just because i have to disconnect and cant really do anything except throw and druid has more ranged stuff

[pallid quiver]

Overall, casts are pretty okay; I think the lack of SS outbursts might put in risk of beacon crit zone

Which would explain why you randomly seem to lose aggro

[lusty grotto]

yeah

i would agree

[toxic tiger]

i see. so outbursts only on SS

[pallid quiver]

Even in AOE, it's still more damage, so it's usually worth fishing for

(up to a certain point, but you don't see that in raid often)

[toxic tiger]

and TC can be off cd and i dont press it until outburst is finished?

[pallid quiver]

It's fine to send a few Outbursts on TC, but if you can fish like 1-2 GCDs for it and you're not risking overwriting, it's definitely worth

Since Outburst SS does truck loads more dam and gives almost 40 rage in comparison to TC's 10

[toxic tiger]

yea ok

[lusty grotto]

yeah tc can skip a gcd

just for an outburst

[pallid quiver]

So every TC outburst costs you an outburst SS and two revenges worth of rage

[toxic tiger]

got it

well thank you guys! i hope that resolves the issue!

[lusty grotto]

well a log of the event might help out more

just to find out specifically

[toxic tiger]

yea i know, its somewhere in that raid night, but i dont have time to look through every log, if it happens again i will post it again

[lusty grotto]

sounds good

[strong forum]

Not to mention SS outbursts lead to more outbursts and avatars in the long run

Outburst=more outburst

https://tenor.com/view/shocked-face-surprised-wee-bey-the-wire-revelation-gif-23831754

[pallid quiver]

^^^

I was hyperfocused on the immediate taunt swap aggro issue, but this is also just good to keep in mind

[grand veldt]

Is there ever a point where we choose revenge or Tc over SS in aoe?

[strong forum]

7 targets

[grand veldt]

(Taking about the debate over gCDs)

[strong forum]

Short term, 7 targets

Long term, no

[grand veldt]

Copy that

And obviously if you have the tier set proc on

Shield slam would be prio

Just was curious if theres circumstances without it

[strong forum]

If you have tierset you absolute mega spam the shit out of SS

General rule is also

Pretty much every

single

pull

Has a prio target that has vastly more hp than others in the group

Or that has to Die first

So you send SS into that always

And don't prio aoe padding

[grand veldt]

Yeah sounds smart

[opaque quest]

I dont understand this one

What does it mean

[grand veldt]

Like in practice theres not really a circumstance but mathematically 7 targets

[strong forum]

Like BH, the warscourges, the big trees, they're in pretty much every single pull

NL, the Hulks and breakers

[mighty valley]

padding is prioritizing Total Number On Meters over like... what actually makes the key go well

[opaque quest]

Not pelters?

[strong forum]

Neltharus the bird/warden/lavamancer

[strong forum]

Do not target the pelters

If you target the pelters, they jump away

[bleak breach]

Your damage is pretty high, so you shouldn’t be losing threat to anyone. I imagine it’s just them using beacon taking it. There’s nothing that will rip threat off you if you pull 80k.

[strong forum]

They don't jump if you don't target them

[lusty grotto]

yeah but you mostly skip them in high keys

[opaque quest]

Ye but melees target them anyways so might aswell bomb them

[lusty grotto]

but yes, targetting them is what makes them jump

[grand veldt]

Yeah theres just the players near ularogg you grab if you have no priest

[strong forum]

In FH you got the enforcers

[grand veldt]

Nelth you have the thamas

[strong forum]

And then the harpooners or crushers

Hoi has dragons and the orbs

[grand veldt]

And geomancers

Fuck geomancers

Fuck man I actually cant wait to leave this season

[strong forum]

Uldaman is alot of aoe adding tbf

Except the big thunderclappers

Forgot the name tho

[bleak breach]

Big sxc bois

[strong forum]

Which dungeon am I missing

[grand veldt]

Vortex

[strong forum]

Vp is just pure prio dmg tbh

Not much aoe

[bleak breach]

Vp sucks

I don’t do it

[grand veldt]

I do it only on tyran

[strong forum]

UR you got the matrons, bloodswarmers

[grand veldt]

I have a 25 vp I'm not bothering with this week

[bleak breach]

In fairness I haven’t don’t keys in like 4 months lol

[grand veldt]

The lashers

The death speaker

[strong forum]

Lashers are irrelevant

They just die

[grand veldt]

The maggot

[strong forum]

That's just a managed kick

[grand veldt]

Yeah I'm just saying everything in UR can be dangerous

[bleak breach]

What’s the trick to the ticks guys? Just kiting? They get me every single time

[strong forum]

You don't do them

That's the trick

[bleak breach]

I normally just shield charge, shockwave and leap away

[grand veldt]

You avoid

Or you stun

[strong forum]

First pull you use CDs

But after that

You never do ticks again

[bleak breach]

Okie dokie, most of the time someone accidentally pull that 2nd lol

[grand veldt]

You get ticks on 2nd boss often

[strong forum]

That's just a very low key issue

And on boss

They don't matter much if you get 1 or 2

[grand veldt]

The bleed is 3or 4 seconds long

[strong forum]

They get killed

And you vibe

[grand veldt]

You can stoneform, and caut, if you are in a real bad run, stun then leap for the bleed to wear off

[strong forum]

Funnel dmg

[opaque quest]

Wdym again. I skip ticks completely

I rather do 3 plants instead of ticks

[strong forum]

First pull

You do 1 pack of ticks + patrol + matron pack + Lust

Free real estate

[bleak breach]

Woweee

[lusty grotto]

can just do everything plus bridge if you have bridge kicks

simple enough

[opaque quest]

!1nv0YnkmmWFPyWqkV22PT3lCTJjTV5ziGCg65d6a2P5(7pjzG4K2oXdJS0QD9k7Of6kTAy)7qJBcdDA1Na8hDPuRQBBh6FfgN6g6XeIn3Ov(UwTQ6Pw3BpUBx1dVOvnd2HXNRTGZb)Q3mq8v7Dd3r576pOV9kmTNi2rHCWj879GP2BXG2oJPRbd)NUuSrRowB9aXwJFCe6Dp7TwSY6ELFVfocHCJDg3VnMjGDbYpzf3k2799hGHEw7KesA4V0zBVwnbw07KfRiMWf22hOwtHeZFCyJZis4fHRmDTjkvoLOCljF5nuz5fLt4YPCzCLXqZNHM9nqPPecyrvh1qyt28r4mBPZjDeF)KQfmijRkoIj9Zi80(coiK1rBJvs(fsY51wEXga78NKnlYSYZUUuiILTiKadDCumBPlguopvelxgPxpVeR3jZ3tbqILRfILcgO8ckwMHuLSO3cuNX7k(MUcClKxoo3g8vWO07N1j0MOdTinUzry4iY5hV0FB0kJjfmg(9m9t))

This is what im doing

MDT*

[bleak breach]

When you do big pulls like that are you running def stance?

[opaque quest]

no

[lusty grotto]

just perfect

[strong forum]

I don't do keys high enough to use def stance on

[opaque quest]

Same

[oblique garnet]

Harpooners are prio 1

[opaque quest]

I only use Bstance in Neltharus when i pull to chains

[oblique garnet]

Always

[opaque quest]

Since i cant do dmg anyways

[strong forum]

Yes but you never do harpooners together with crusher

Is what I meant with that

[oblique garnet]

tru

[strong forum]

They're seperate pulls

[bleak breach]

Fair enough

[modern brook]

not true i do them together and let my ranged die they deserve it for playing ranged specs

[grand veldt]

I never leave defensive stance unless it's a boss fight that I'm certain cant kill me or unless theres only a small amount of adds

But I'm in the minority

And everyone hates my opinion

[modern brook]

i mean its like wearing a cup to school

[grand veldt]

I'm 32 my brains not quick enough to react, I dont wanna get combod on an opening pull just bc I'm a boomer

[modern brook]

ok its like wearing a helmet to drive down the street

high key

if you're getting blown up at the start of a pull dstance isnt helping you

[opaque quest]

Im turning 31 next week dont scare me

[bleak breach]

What level keys do you do?

I rarely go above 20, a lot of my friends aren’t really keen on anything past that and I normally lead overall damage.

[grand veldt]

25, and 26s

[bleak breach]

Ahh yep, would definitely need it for that.

[delicate stream]

@bleak breach gonna have to get my aug in those 😉

[lusty grotto]

sense is almost a decade older than you

and so am i

[bleak breach]

Absolutely

[lusty grotto]

and we dont do this shit

[grand veldt]

Yeah but does he play with an arcane mage who makes me bring 10 mobs into magmatusk?

[bleak breach]

I mean if he’s timing 25s and 26s he’s doing something right

[grand veldt]

If you guys were abused and had to do magmatusk with 4 thamaturges you would get it

[bleak breach]

Whatever works, you’re doing 25/26s that’s not low level stuff. You’re clearly doing a great job to get that far.

[grand veldt]

I mean I never claim the way I do things is optimal, nor that I'm good

I fully concede others do things better, I just play way more defensively

[bleak breach]

Gotta be fairly good to do 15/26s

25/26*

A lot of players can’t even do 20s

[delicate stream]

true my mates quit soon as i got evoker lego, got 1 portal done lol

[oblique garnet]

huh?

youre 40?

[lusty grotto]

close

[bleak breach]

My stats are different to a lot of the other guys here, but it works. Don’t stress, do it your way. You’re clearly doing great.

[grand veldt]

I stack haste and vers

Which is not that favored for damage

[bleak breach]

Yeah I’ve got a lot of vers as well

Doesn’t seem to affect my damage at all

[lusty grotto]

but magmatusk trash does nothing

would concede if you were somehow pulling wardens to it

but that trash is really easy

its not you they have to worry about dying its dps

[grand veldt]

I just dont feel safe with 10 mobs on pull even if it's just a lot of autos

[lusty grotto]

because of chain thaumaturges without stops

[grand veldt]

And my arcane mage is constantly making me do shit like that

Wanna see a really painful route we tried for VP?

[lusty grotto]

the only pull you have to worry about in nelth

is first pull into chains

if you do all right corridor and 40% of the room like most people do

with miniboss

and i wouldnt say it's scary

it can be while youre doing chains though

since you cant block or parry

[grand veldt]

Yeah that first mega chain pull is scary

[lusty grotto]

thats the part i shit my pants about

[opaque quest]

Thats why i wear scale in neltharus

For that pull alone

[grand veldt]

I've learned the timing on the hunters and they cast 6 seconds after aggro

I just found out last week that it was a bleed tearing me up

Yeah you pull it alone and have them goulash run to the chains

That's the vp pull we tried last week

[lusty grotto]

thats not a problem fo rus

[grand veldt]

Spoiler it was pain

[lusty grotto]

thats a problem for dps

we dont get soldier charged

thats the killer there

[grand veldt]

It's actually the triple knock up

That is awful

[lusty grotto]

youre supposed to passive cleave mistrals

all the way in

[grand veldt]

You have no where to stand during fight

Yeah

We wanted to try to funnel it

[lusty grotto]

oh i see what you mean

[grand veldt]

We invisd

[lusty grotto]

yeah i dont really have that problem though

[grand veldt]

Did everything norm

Then I jumped off, pulled, wernstoned

And that shit on first boss is a nightmare

[lusty grotto]

xD

i like the dragon squall pull a lot though

its just a shame you need to time it perfectly to avoid assassins

[uneven mason]

Finally got a chance to sit down

[cerulean tusk]

Deleted your message, coward