But no soothe so I didn’t pull 1st hulk just all the other stuff
#protection
rapid plover
what do you do with hulk dot? Just IP?
modern gazelle
Cry
modern gazelle
Defense stance, stack IP and shield wall
rapid plover
oh last question also from uldaman. the chomp from basilisks. do you try to kite so you never get chomped?
modern gazelle
Save heal for when low
violet flume
you cry too for basilisks
violet flume
unless i missed something
modern gazelle
oh last question also from uldaman. the chomp from basilisks. do you try to kit...
Yes. You will not live chomps
sick sentinel
void slap was still worser
rapid plover
man. frost mage best friend of warrior
modern gazelle
Aug+our aoe cc is enough
You have shockwave and shout. You can leap past and then Aug can knock up and back
Plenty of cc with just that
rapid plover
i need to get the trash wa that shows ability timers
stuff i could ignore on pally i cant do on war
modern gazelle
I don’t even look at that one tbh I have my raid countdown timer one that also shows dungeons
I love it
rapid plover
littlewigs?
rapid plover
all i know is there is a weakaura that shows trash ability cd on them
modern gazelle
Look up Quazii he did a video on it
I have it but forgot the name
It goes really well with his nameplates too
sick sentinel
aug works really well with pwar in my experience
doesnt do everything, fills alot of gaps
modern gazelle
If you aren’t using Quazii nameplates you are playing wrong lol
gloomy vortex
Bleed removal is key
rapid plover
plater?
modern gazelle
Yeah
rapid plover
i'm using someone elses but gonna have to check his out
modern gazelle
Frontals blue, big interrupts orange, small interrupts yellow, spells you have to cc pink, uninterruptible grey or not important
Mixed with mob timers WA it’s very good
gloomy vortex
Agree with above
modern gazelle
Also get the spell reflect WA
Makes it so much easier and takes less focus knowing when to reflect
rapid plover
found it
tyvm!
does that one also say when you reflected something?
saw that in someones vid and was curious about it
modern gazelle
It just says when something is reflect able
rapid plover
k
modern gazelle
When you reflect it makes a sound so it’s pretty obvious
rapid plover
alright last question before i go
i have a 23 halls im gonna attempt. spell reflect ice caller or dragon aoe?
guess ill figure it out, peace and thanks for the help
gloomy vortex
Dragon breath tbh if you are not kiting
Otherwise I do the ice caller, feel it hits harder but can be cc’d
modern gazelle
Ice caller, walk out of dragon breath, just tank the aoe
proper roost
it's like people have only ever done 1 season before tbh
or everyone just collectively has amnesia every season
you guys realize this happens every season from like 6 weeks in until ~4 weeks til end of season right
people get bored of a season and stop playing til next season... :wowee:
it's literally no worse than normal from a participation pov, except now there are like 500 good new other games to play this summer/fall
waxen frigate
You’re crazy to say this season isn’t worse than the last few
The god comp is just insane
There is plenty of data to support it
plush tendon
its worse now cause its summer
and the weather is finally nice! (at least where I am)
jagged pier
^
summer plays a massive role
and the dungeons themselves just arent as good as last season
lusty tiger
thundering ruined s1 dungeons for me
but they wouldve been great had there been no thundering to deal with
waxen frigate
summer plays a massive role
S2 shadowlands was also in the summer.
jagged pier
yer was also dead
but thats more due to it being SLs
fucking bliz trying to tell my gems or whatever they were were the same as a fucking tier set
and them making getting them horrible
plush tendon
what you didnt like weekly chores and being forced to do the raid for gems
jagged pier
theres also the fact right now there are some really big games coming out this season
plush tendon
jagged pier
like more that I usually notice
jagged pier
what you didnt like weekly chores and being forced to do the raid for gems
no i actually nearly quit the game that season
D4 (S1, sure wasnt as good as ppl seemed to think), BG3, POE patch, that armour game ppl are playing, Starfield next week
just off the top of my head
plush tendon
also, to refer back that person's post, his issue is he's not getting invited to groups cause either hes a paladin (not meta) and/or doenst have enough score
plush tendon
and hes upset about getting keys bricked by players... which is like.... what happens my dude
jagged pier
has he tried, getting a guild
plush tendon
not amount of tuning/balancing changes that reality
plush tendon
even then prob doesnt help; guild kind of dead outside of reclears right now cause of summer and most people are done gearing anyways
unless you playing alts, no reason to do keys
unless you pushing score
and if you are pushing for title or something, you shouldve realized a month or two ago that theres currently a god comp you should be playing especially if you are living in the pug world
lusty tiger
there literally m+ dedicated communities and guilds now
if you have no history above 2900 io it is difficult to get an inv
but i agree with your point still i think it deserves some sympathy at least
plush tendon
whos doing 21 keys anyways at this point? If you serious about the push, your way past that and if you just do your weekly 20s, you can now do weekly 17s!
jagged pier
16
plush tendon
hes kind late to the show+last week of summer
warm plinth
Pushing doesn't mean the same thing to everyone
warm plinth
If my skill level is around 15s/16s, then pushing means doing 17s and 18s
plush tendon
theres nothing passed 20 worth getting unless its the title
warm plinth
Its relative
People push because of the challenge, not just for the rewards.
Otherwise 3k players wouldn't exist
echo egret
There are also people who just can’t play hours each day and are progressing slowly
plush tendon
idk, the guys post seems like he wrote it after someone bricked his 22 HoI and he's probably fed up with way too many bricked keys in a short amount of time
waxen frigate
fucking bliz trying to tell my gems or whatever they were were the same as a fuc...
Lmao dom shards were awful yeah
minor forge
I might main warr again in s3 and with some dk spice in between
Just did a 16 bh at 426 with average people and felt like I was taking no dmg(with new talent build and new 4set) with mediocre shield block uptime compared to s1
Anyone else feels the same
warm plinth
Mmm, you should not have "mediocre shield block uptime" though
minor forge
Yeah
Around 55 is below mediocre
I remember having 93+ in s1
jagged pier
i mean u should have the same
warm plinth
You should absolutely not have 55% uptime on Shield Block...
jagged pier
so your probably doing something wrong
warm plinth
You can have 100% uptime on Shield Block
warm plinth
True, but at the same time, there's 0 chance 55% uptime is good enough XD
jagged pier
yer not even close
minor forge
Yeah
I know that
Probably just didnt pay enough attention
Havent done anything meaningful in 4 months plus on the warr
Forgot stuff pepega me
warm plinth
I am surprised that you didn't feel squishy with shield block missing half the time. All I can think is you got some lucky RNG on blocks
minor forge
Now that I think of, might have had a streak of luck
But overall, warrior might be a very strong contender for next season
solemn current
I am surprised that you didn't feel squishy with shield block missing half the t...
It’s a crazy phenomenon. Every time I heal prot warriors in keys who don’t have good shield block uptime it’s miserable but they somehow live with me just having to focus them more. If I let my shield block drop for a moment I feel like I get trucked.
median tulip
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/keys-are-in-a-sorry-state-right-now/1659...
Same as it ever was
lusty tiger
strong forum
game bad
bring back the glory days of not having any content outside of raids! amirite boys
just raidlog once a week !!
echo egret
at least that would remove the hassle of two gearing pathes competing (poorly) with each other
strong forum
game so good dont even have to log on
but yeah, memes aside i dont think anybody would disagree that its the worst m+ season in history
strong forum
because the trickle down issue is extremely exaggerated this season
south zealot
bring back the glory days of not having any content outside of raids! amirite bo...
bring back glory and banner
holy moly
strong forum
you got people exclusively playing meta struggling to complete 22s
when sense out there doing 30s with only 1 meta spec
its also the most competetive m+ season so far cuz playing offmeta comes at a decent disadvantage + the extra added key levels added to high end keys through 10.1.5 and the key scaling change this reset
supple path
but yeah, memes aside i dont think anybody would disagree that its the worst m+ ...
There was that one season in BfA with the affix (infested maybe? I barely remember) that constantly adjusted pull routes which was super obnoxious too.
sick sentinel
infested was a nothing burger
south zealot
which is usually how it is
strong forum
from an enjoyment perspective infested was definitely worse
sick sentinel
maggot had to run around to other players
strong forum
but gamehealth and engagement wise it was better id wager
sick sentinel
and spend 3 or 4 entire seconds casting the cast
infested was mostly horrible as an idea
strong forum
i dont think anybody, even blizzard, disagrees
having mobile sanguine is just not a fun idea
sick sentinel
it was just fuckin creepy, i don't recall the mobile sanguine part of it
strong forum
the infested mobs would heal other mobs around them by %hp
sick sentinel
did it have a ring around him that would heal everything and so you had to sheep or hunter trap it
is that how it went
strong forum
it would shit out 2 maggots which would re-infest others
if you didnt manage to catch them
you could deplete the entire key in 1 pull
sick sentinel
well, the maggots had like, nothing for HP
strong forum
because it would snowball into infinite maggots
sick sentinel
3 basic attacks and it was dead
strong forum
wasnt that low
sick sentinel
like i say though, i played with DK every day
strong forum
couple the fact of micromanaging maggot CC/killing + entirely new expansion + entire new dungeons
supple path
The right group could handle them no problem, but it was absolute pug poison.
strong forum
and it goes turbo out of control very easily
supple path
And it was one of those items that made the entry-barrier for tanking that much more intimidating for folks.
sick sentinel
so the maggot was noting at all to us, and we had a hpal and a ret pal
strong forum
in hindsight, yes its easy to deal with
sick sentinel
so it didn't cause issues for us ever
strong forum
cuz players as a whole are better at the game
supple path
These past couple seasons haven't been bad from the point of view of a super casual player (cough me) who runs one 16 a week and always has it be HoV then Freehold or Underrot, hah.
NO LEARNING REQUIRED
sick sentinel
wtf was 8.1 and 8.2 i think 8.1 was reaping with the ghost sand 8.2 i don't recal
strong forum
8.2 was emissaries
sick sentinel
fuck 8.2 cuz voids
strong forum
void explosion
water CC immunity
arcane dmg reflect
sick sentinel
void was only one ever worth worrying about
cuz it can just 1 shot group
2, but u knowe
it can SOLO the group, put it that way
wooden radish
Wrong. The damage reflect one was the worst one
wooden radish
But who wants to stop doing damage
undone verge
forcible stop dmg phases or mechanics are always terrible
the only exception was shriekwing
sick sentinel
i now understand why i place the map where i do.
finally makes sense, don't got copies of wc1 and 2 tho. or diablo 1
undone verge
I found this old DS game I used to play as a kid that was basically a lego spoof of the RTS genre
sick sentinel
DS and GBA had alot of weird and shitty games
GBA had best 2d games but worst 3d games, DS had great games overall, but, fucking like, cooking master 3, BBQ edition.
psp was better, imo
uneven mason
finally makes sense, don't got copies of wc1 and 2 tho. or diablo 1
GoG has wc1&2
Also wtf is a DS
I was managing a Babbage's when the GBA came out
jagged gust
how dare you bring facts and logic into this
uneven mason
a DS is the thing between GBASP and 3DS
So it's another Nintendo handheld
sick sentinel
it was really god damn good hardware
strong forum
GBA was bis
sick sentinel
i think you could emulate gba on some of the first psp's
all i know for sure is i could play vice city
in april, they come out with remake for max payne 1
tall tusk
need max payne 3 remastered asap
pallid quiver
Also wtf is a DS
The end times have come already; the DS isn't just instantly recognized anymore
lusty tiger
Dis sac
crude notch
I’ve done about 100-300 total m+ pug keys in dragonflight from 2-12 and I think LITERALLY for the first time I didn’t time a key.
You know why? Because it was a typical pug, and the healer was undergeared and trying to do damage.
the #1 reason why there are problems with healing in dragonflight is because there is community pressure for healers to do damage in crappy pug groups
this is not the frickin MDI guys, if it is a good group or the healer is skilled enough, go ahead and do damage
for everyone else just keep everyone alive
your 10k dps or whatever is not going to make or break a +8, but having 10 wipes will
thanks!
south zealot
I’ve done about 100-300 total m+ pug keys in dragonflight from 2-12 and I think LITERALLY for the first time I didn’t time a key.
You know why? Because it was a typical pug, and the healer was undergeared and trying to do damage.
the #1 reason why there are problems with healing in dragonflight is because there is community pressure for healers to do damage in crappy pug groups
this is not the frickin MDI guys, if it is a good group or the healer is skilled enough, go ahead and do damage
for everyone else just keep everyone alive
your 10k dps or whatever is not going to make or break a +8, but having 10 wipes will
thanks!
dusky canopy
I’ve done about 100-300 total m+ pug keys in dragonflight from 2-12 and I think LITERALLY for the first time I didn’t time a key.
You know why? Because it was a typical pug, and the healer was undergeared and trying to do damage.
the #1 reason why there are problems with healing in dragonflight is because there is community pressure for healers to do damage in crappy pug groups
this is not the frickin MDI guys, if it is a good group or the healer is skilled enough, go ahead and do damage
for everyone else just keep everyone alive
your 10k dps or whatever is not going to make or break a +8, but having 10 wipes will
thanks!
warm plinth
Dreamgrove: no bear towers
Skyhold:
dusky canopy
jaunty canopy
tbh I thought 2-12 was supposed to be a date at first, forgot that key range existed for a sec.. oopsie
dusky canopy
LOL^
lusty grotto
I’ve done about 100-300 total m+ pug keys in dragonflight from 2-12 and I think LITERALLY for the first time I didn’t time a key.
You know why? Because it was a typical pug, and the healer was undergeared and trying to do damage.
the #1 reason why there are problems with healing in dragonflight is because there is community pressure for healers to do damage in crappy pug groups
this is not the frickin MDI guys, if it is a good group or the healer is skilled enough, go ahead and do damage
for everyone else just keep everyone alive
your 10k dps or whatever is not going to make or break a +8, but having 10 wipes will
thanks!
damn im too late
south zealot
@proper roost
warm plinth
The message we all hope to get
warm plinth
wow
south zealot
keen meteor
Anyone have a macro that works for both Charge and Shield Charge?
ionic fern
Anyone have a macro that works for both Charge and Shield Charge?
Why?
I mean, what are you trying to accomplish?
keen meteor
I mean, what are you trying to accomplish?
Cast sequence them together and prioritize shield charge is what I was thinking
ionic fern
But you still want to Charge in from afar for the extra Rage.
And then Shield Charge up close since it doesn't have a minimum range.
urban portal
you can do /cast charge /cast shield charge
if you use it in range its going to be regular
if close its going to be shield
ionic fern
No, it's going to be "ERRRPOPPR TPOP CLOOOSE" and then Shield Charge.
Also means you'd have to track Shield Charge with a WA or w/e since you can't see it's CD.
urban portal
if its far it wouldnt regular charge?
didnt know
but people track CDs with a WA anyways
ionic fern
No, when you're NEAR them.
ionic fern
but people track CDs with a WA anyways
Some do, some don't.
It will still try to Charge first.
Giving a error.
And then Shield Charge, if it's off cd.
urban portal
im not saying its good or anything but its fine
warm plinth
Doesn't one or the other actually put both on CD?
lusty grotto
yeah idk why anyone would wanna do that
we've had a few asking the same thing and we're like bruh
warm plinth
These guys need to get MMO mice 
warm plinth
Or use shift mods at least
lusty grotto
yeah
you know i hate mmo mice
but my perspective is different anyway from having played prot for so long
warm plinth
like 1-5 (since some folks can't hit 6), Q, E, R, T, F, G, C, V and then shift of all of those is 26 binds
lusty grotto
just trying to emphatize
warm plinth
And if you can reach a bit further you can use B, Y and 6 too
lusty grotto
we had a guy with a disability or something like that a few weeks back, i think you were around right ghash?
warm plinth
Yeah
lusty grotto
yeah well
ionic fern
like 1-5 (since some folks can't hit 6), Q, E, R, T, F, G, C, V and then shift o...
I don't like using letters. I just do 1-5 with shift / CTRL.
cerulean tusk
Caps and tab is also neato buttons
lusty grotto
its not like most people are lazy, they usually just cant, but yeah macro'ing them together is a bad idea
warm plinth
I hit caps by accident way too much, and I tab target fairly frequently
So I couldn't use those
ionic fern
I hit caps by accident way too much, and I tab target fairly frequently
Tab targeting is my way of doing dungeons.
Press Tab
Welp, guess i'm going that way.
warm plinth
I don't have a problem with people macroing shit as long as it a.) makes sense, and b.) they're going to track them all separately and press the button accordingly
jagged gust
I love tab targeting, but I also have a couple macros on my alt key...
tends to get me into trouble
cerulean tusk
I don't have a problem, as long they ain't playing with myself or anyone I know 
warm plinth
Like even a cast sequence for like Demo>SC>TR>Rav would not be absolutely terrible
If we're just looking for accessibility and not necessarily optimal
ionic fern
Do macros have a randomiser function?
cerulean tusk
Only for text
ionic fern
I'd make a macro with Revenge / IP and when ever you click it, it ranomly picks one and uses it.
warm plinth
XD
ionic fern
Would link it any time someone asks "When do i press Revenge and IP?"
warm plinth
There is a /castrandom but not sure if it's still in retail or not
cerulean tusk
Why not just macro IP to SS?
undone verge
link it to my raid leader who says I should spend rage on IP and shouldn't spent it on revenge if I die
cerulean tusk
Macro SB to SS
undone verge
wait backwards
warm plinth
If you macro IP to SS then you're never going to have the rage to spend on Revenge
warm plinth
what do you mean sequence macro?
warm plinth
We're getting into the realm of too ridiculous for me now lol
ionic fern
Add a Whirlwind / Slam in there and i'm on board.
lusty grotto
i didnt play too much this week damn
now im wondering if i should run this 25 NL
or just fuck it
2 am so probably nah
next 2 week affixes are aids too
well next week aint so bad
but fuck sanguine week after
proper roost
<@116366605818134530>
my insane what
south zealot
.
modern gazelle
when people rather sit in queue for 30min looking for a tank than inv you to a key 1lvl higher than the max you've done for a dungeon -_-
undone verge
Affixes completely ruin m+ for me
jagged pier
affixes should be risk reward, not just things that slow down the key
undone verge
100%
Storming makes me want to tear my hair out
sanguine makes me want to cancle my sub, bursting is just funny tbh cause I get to watch the dps kill themselves cause they have no self control
bursting is the best kiss curse affix cause I can laugh at the dps while bricking my key
uncut dome
I think afflixes like afflixted is actually good, it does not slow down or ruin the key just requires a brief interaction
undone verge
you say that, until u get a group of people who doesnt know how to deal with afflicted
warm plinth
I don't know that I'd call bursting a kiss/curse affix lol. Not dying is par for the course; it's not a perk.
undone verge
well the kiss is the entertainment value I get from watching the fury warrior wind up his second ramp when bursting stacks are at 5
lavish sphinx
I liked Thundering
undone verge
imagine if we got thundering in its origional form 
jagged pier
no
undone verge
you werent super hyped for this?
median tulip
bursting is the best kiss curse affix cause I can laugh at the dps while brickin...
The problem I have with bursting is that the affix just becomes "got a priest?". Any affix which boils down to enforcing a particular party comp is a bad affix.
prisma phoenix
Bursting doesn't force you to bring anything...
Just, like, plan your pulls. And don't nuke everything at the same time.
Get 3-4 stacks, wait for them to drop, repeat.
hazy bronze
you werent super hyped for this?
I love how that video title had a definitive answer 
median tulip
Just, like, plan your pulls. And don't nuke everything at the same time.
Or... Bring a priest
hardy snow
I love how that video title had a definitive answer <:keks:936231610850897992>
law of headlines applies here 
prisma phoenix
Or... Bring a priest
Again, you don't have to. Bursting can be done without a priest. Sure, the class helps a lot but it's not necessary.
hazy bronze
I can also walk everywhere, but why ignore motorized transit that's right there anyway?
prisma phoenix
Imo, why bother manually breathing when you can just place yourself on a life support machine
hazy bronze
Truly
halcyon pasture
What's the best tank for m+
jagged pier
which ever one u find the most fun to play
halcyon pasture
Surely there is a meta
hazy bronze
The meta is bear but it's irrelevant Tull at least 26
jagged pier
what content do u do?
because most tanks have cleared 30s now
so its barely relevent
what tank u play
everything but monk has done a 30
monk has done 29
halcyon pasture
I just returned. I thought if I choose a meta tank, I will get keys easier
halcyon pasture
Thanks
wind sleet
do we use ww as a prot warrior?
hardy snow
do we use ww as a prot warrior?
nope
dusky canopy
Waking up to some cool thumbnails on YT
trim condor
is there any dmg rankins on tanks in m+? I am often seeing in forums/reddit, bdk complaining about dps in dungeons, but to my experience and some logs, BDKs are kinda high, just single target is not that big.
strong forum
Correct
Bdk aoe is very strong
Bdk St is very poop
And if I were to rank tanks
It'd be:
S- Bear
A- vdh, pwar, ppally, bdk, brew
trim condor
yeah. My friend plays one and aoe seems very strong
trim condor
It'd be:
S- Bear
A- vdh, pwar, ppally, bdk, brew
dps wise in m+?
trim condor
I see, thanks!
Yeah, brew is my favorite, trading dps for defences. Dunno why blizzard deciding to nerf dmg, but defences are still same
strong forum
Cuz their dmg was turbo ahead
And with augvoker existing monk isn't really weak defensively either
Just not popular
Cuz it's alot harder because of button bloat
trim condor
Magic damage still shreds my brew, especially with group that decide not interupt spells
strong forum
That's not something unique to monk
trim condor
meanwhile no stress when I was pushing on druid and pwar. even tho without reflect, it hurt little aswell
strong forum
Turns out if the thing that's supposed to happen doesn't happen shit goes south
:surprisedpikachu:
trim condor
my point is, I could live on other tanks. Thats why it seemed fair, to have dps, but more squishiness. + Brew is half of bdk with hp jumping now
remote venture
Brew has low hp becasue stagger removes most of the dmg
and BDK need the big hp pool to able to self heal
So hard to compare them imo
strong forum
I've never played brew so I can't comment on the hp yoyo part
trim condor
stagger is around 70%, so phys is 70% staggered, but magic is 45% from that
strong forum
Their shtick is that they also just get alot more value from heals or absorbs
trim condor
but iirc, I have like 18% dr from armor on monk
trim condor
Their shtick is that they also just get alot more value from heals or absorbs
yeah, they buffed that, its silly now
trim condor
I've never played brew so I can't comment on the hp yoyo part
you can go from 20 to 100 in 1 button and you can do that pretty often, like every 5-6 sec if youre dmg taken is high enough
proper roost
strong forum
And if your HP moves, something went wrong
trim condor
yeah, but if magic goes to you, its insta mostly unfornatelly haha
on my war, my hp moved only when I ate some nasty bleed
strong forum
yeah, but if magic goes to you, its insta mostly unfornatelly haha
That's why you use CDs beforehand or use IV instantly
trim condor
and when I tanked 16 Hoi on 400 ilvl and that dragons were kinda pumping 😦
strong forum
You know its coming
trim condor
That's why you use CDs beforehand or use IV instantly
what is IV ?:D
trim condor
ah, I was thinking about brew, not war
strong forum
Well on brew it's expel harm
trim condor
At war, mostly ignore pain was saving me from magic
yeah, but you will get oneshot sometimes even with full hp
outside of def cds, you cant do much about magic. But thats more like pug thing, this dont happens in push groups
proper roost
What magic damage sources are oneshotting you
The breath is over like 3 seconds
and you can just outrange it
trim condor
What magic damage sources are oneshotting you
on brew, it was brackenhide mix of spells, when there were almost 0 interupts
trim condor
and you can just outrange it
breath was on my war, when I was out of cd, because dragon took 3 minutes to kill, but I didnt know I can outrange it! thanks
proper roost
What oneshots you in Brackenhide wrt spells? Also, every tank has a 15s kick
topaz field
blobs? 😄
dusky canopy
I didn’t even know brew and one-shot could be in the same sentence
trim condor
What oneshots you in Brackenhide wrt spells? Also, every tank has a 15s kick
Combination of bolts, decay something. Its a while when I played brew
proper roost
If it's a combination of a bunch of abilities, then it's not exactly a one-shot, is it?
topaz field
more than ever
trim condor
If it's a combination of a bunch of abilities, then it's not exactly a one-shot,...
Death in 0.5 sec? I take that as oneshot
proper roost
All tanks have a 15 second kick
and Brm has the longest duration nontalented aoe stun
dusky canopy
My kicks 14 seconds
ionic fern
Just
dusky canopy
trim condor
Iirc, half of them cant be stunned And you can't kick all spells, they Are casting it pretty often
And lets be Real, sometimes you dont press interupt exactly on 15 sec mark
proper roost
What is "half of them can't be stunned"
What mobs in Brackenhide are casters that cast a bolt spell and can't be stunned?
trim condor
Will try to Google name, they Are mostly close to cages
proper roost
You mean the stunnable ones
That can be stunned
Those ones
Because everything but the warscourge (doesn't cast bolt) and rothexer (doesn't cast bolt) can be stunned in the first area
trim condor
Maybe I meant the warscourge, yeah
topaz field
my god hes talking about the decay speaker
what is this interrogation
not stunable but reflectable
but u cannot reflect the totem because blizzard logic
blazing condor
Waking up to some cool thumbnails on YT
Worlds first lvl 32 arcane mage pog
proper roost
my god hes talking about the decay speaker
He's talking about on his Brm
And the decayspeaker doesn't do massive tank damage either
Simple as, people don't know what they're talking about when they die to shit as a tank
Saying you get oneshot by spells in BH is the worst take
Or really by any magic source since it's not really possible unless you straight up stopped pressing buttons
topaz field
if the cast goes through its massive dmg
and u probably dont have the global to dispel yourself
thats one of the main reasons u prefer to mindsoothe skip those 2 packs
and u also get dicked on if u pull blobs
hes right about that
the ugly green blobs in the tree area
trim condor
I mean you can try Brew in higher BH with pug if you dont Believe me :), I didnt have these problems on war, druid or paladin. I didnt play vdh And bdk, So dunno about them
crude notch
As a tryer of Brew in higher BH I can assure you, you aren't getting one shot.
trim condor
Group had interupts? Most runs were fine, but this was with bala druid And no beam used, devastation with 1 interupt And Rogue with 0 crowd control.
When people use their kits, Its actually fine
proper roost
The pack you're talking about is 90% physical damage
warm plinth
Decay Speakers and Mystics both cast on the tank and it will fuck you up if they're all going through. Earth Bolt from Mystics is basically spammed and does 200k and two of the average pug cage pulls have two of them. Decay Speakers do Decay Surge which is also like 230k and again, they basically spam it. And the Decay Speaker one is always on the tank.
topaz field
pretty legit to get oneshot there
topaz field
exactly
crude notch
I'd like to remind everyone that our health pools are a little higher than 200k and that Brewmaster has this thing called uhh... stagger.
proper roost
also the mystics can be fully stunned and stopped
trim condor
Which is 45% effective ať magic 😁
proper roost
crude notch
And once again the conversation was in context to Brewmaster. Any tank taking those bolts repetitively with nothing but base is going to struggle.
sick sentinel
I'd like to remind everyone that our health pools are a little higher than 200k ...
"stagger"
warm plinth
I'm aware they can be stunned and stopped. But you were literally saying there were no dangerous casters in the first area when there absolutely are...
warm plinth
Is it particularly crazy to assume a pug is not going to be stopping those effectively
crude notch
In fact base defensive, Brew is sitting there prettiest because of stagger working on magic.
proper roost
and he's the brm he can leg sweep lol
crude notch
Which is 45% effective ať magic 😁
Okay?
proper roost
nothing to do with pugs
topaz field
and then they recast and hes doing what?
ring
end then they recast
and then?
luckily its only 90 % physical dmg as u said lmao
warm plinth
They literally chain cast
proper roost
What would any other tank do while they spam cast in that scenario then lol 🤨
you think pwar has infinite sr or something
crude notch
Like you guys are forgetting the context
proper roost
him claiming he couldn't do anything against the oneshot there
When you personally as brm can do a lot
sick sentinel
fort is still really horrible overall tho
crude notch
The point being made was Brewmaster sucks there then you guys provide scenarios which suck for any tank
Like what
trim condor
Okay?
And stagger Is 68-70 with high ivl, So Its like 30-35 max staggered And brew has the least hp because of stagger
sick sentinel
just holdin w, then smacked by some frost mage boy frost shard blast spell
warm plinth
Is it impossible for one tank to have a harder time with something than another or?
proper roost
no one was comparing any tank about it lol
crude notch
You're actually being obtuse now
sick sentinel
warm plinth
I'm not shifting a goalpost... Jordan literally said this was the point, and then we talk about a scenario which sucks for any tank. What the fuck are you even talking about lol
trim condor
no one was comparing any tank about it lol
I was? I wrote that I didnt have these problems on other tank toons 😁
warm plinth
I was literally responding to something someone said.
sick sentinel
tanking is sometimes it works and some times it doesn't
crude notch
Like poor usage of Purify and Dampen and Celestial Brew and Diffuse Magic will make it hurt there.
But so will poor usage of SR, Shield Wall, IP.
sick sentinel
its kinda like making a plan to take a vehicle many miles
well, you should have idea of vehicle you want to take, based on route, and even then if you do pick right, mechanical failure, or other BS can happen along the road
its not like its malicious, it just happens
crude notch
Yogi what the hell are you even saying
warm plinth
lollll
sick sentinel
apply that to tanks
running a key
diferent tanks
you prepare and prepare, and you got all your points of data, but then it doesnt go that way
trim condor
Like poor usage of Purify and Dampen and Celestial Brew and Diffuse Magic will m...
Tbh, dampen And diffuse Are cds. When I was on pwar, I switched to def stance, smashed reflect on cd And was pooling lot of IP.
You can't do much on brew outside of cds. ( In 10.1, brew dont play shorter celestial aswell)
sick sentinel
BM is alot of fun last i played in NF in SL
it was quite dodgy with how much dmg i took, but that could be player skill too
crude notch
You can't dismiss my point by saying "Dampen and Diffuse are CDs" and then literally list a PWar CD.
trim condor
Blackout kick for globes And Mastery, keg smash for shuffle And cd reduction, fire to refresh buff And maintain Dr.
trim condor
You can't dismiss my point by saying "Dampen and Diffuse are CDs" and then liter...
You mean ,,3sec,, cd? And ignore pain no cd( of course, you need Rage)
sick sentinel
one of the things i liked to use on monk was it was some 1 minute cd heal or somethin, really nice
crude notch
SR is a 3 sec CD now?
sick sentinel
CB i think
trim condor
one of the things i liked to use on monk was it was some 1 minute cd heal or som...
Maybe you mean celestial shield? 🙂
trim condor
SR is a 3 sec CD now?
I wrote def stance
crude notch
You actually don't know what you typed
crude notch
warm plinth
Hmm...
Diffuse Magic - 1.5 min CD
Dampen Harm - 2 min CD
Spell Reflection - 20 sec CD
One seems to not be like the other.
sick sentinel
so why hit d stance when u could just hit SR for the dr
warm plinth
No, Jordan is trying to act like a 20 sec CD and a 90 sec-2 min CD are the same thing.
crude notch
And if you're struggling that hard against magic damage you most certainly take Brew CD over MASTERY which does nothing against magic
sick sentinel
i don't understand the "sr has a 3s cd now" line then
cuz d stance has 3s cd
only logical jump i can make
trim condor
Yeah, Spell reflect Is like 20 sec? Completely negating spell, then perma 20 dr from stance and pooling IP for hits, limited by just Rage generation
Meanwhile you have 1,5min And 2 min cd on monk And around 40 sec celestial, stagger which Is effectively taking magic almost same as def stance And you have lower hp
sick sentinel
i dunno
crude notch
Hmm...
Diffuse Magic - 1.5 min CD
Dampen Harm - 2 min CD
Spell Reflection - 20 ...
You're ignoring the entire rest of the kit
But go off
sick sentinel
i always thought brews where part of mastery land boy gang terrority
warm plinth
I'm not ignoring anything. The conversation was defensives.
sick sentinel
i figured they stack tons of mastery and mastery carries the spec
trim condor
i figured they stack tons of mastery and mastery carries the spec
They did that in sl, you could ignore lot of things with that
crude notch
You can press CB just as often as SR if played right
trim condor
Nope, celestial Is not used as 48 sec anymore
crude notch
Your argument so far have been
IF, you pull something that most don't.
IF, you don't use stops.
IF, you don't use CDs.
I'm sorry, but like why are we comparing things when played wrong?
sick sentinel
HOLY discovered quests batman
crude notch
If you don't do things that make that pull easier, yes, it will hurt, on any tank.
trim condor
Your argument so far have been
IF, you pull something that most don't.
IF, you ...
You use cds, but run out of possibilities after a while?
And I stated in PUGS, dunno if you pugging, but sometimes, you dont even decide about pulls as a tank with dumb ranged players. And people dont use stops even in higher keys ( maybe Its End of season thing And they climbed too high thanks to augr and easy gear upgrades)
warm plinth
In high keys, you don't play it. In the average pug, you may not even have a priest.
and you need a priest to skip them
crude notch
Eventually if you like up enough "IF"s everything sucks.
warm plinth
Ironfur has nothing to do with this
trim condor
Nobody said that its never tank fault. Just you can't save it on certain classes
warm plinth
ba-dum-tiss
crude notch
Alright that got a good chuckle
sick sentinel
ill returm soon booboo
wary orbit
Is there a certain breakpoint for haste or vers you want to hit and then start stacking crit?
waxen frigate
Fwiw, hard breakpoints dont exist for almost any specs in the game anymore
The answer is gonna be to sim it
warm plinth
We don't stack anything but haste. The "breakpoint" is realistically unreachable, at least in this tier.
waxen frigate
Yeah the breakpoints that do tend to exist
Aren’t actually reachable
(Maybe next tier?)
wary orbit
Got it. Yeah 7100 is ridiculous
warm plinth
Beyond that, we generally recommend crit as the second stat you should pursue after ilevel>haste
warm plinth
It's generally ahead for damage, and it's very strong for survival in keys
wary orbit
I just know that crit sims higher than haste or vers it seems, but i wonder if i would be sacrificing too much survivability
warm plinth
Our survival is gameplay, not stats
waxen frigate
Crit increases survivability also
warm plinth
But in keys especially, crit will mitigate more damage over the course of a dungeon than vers will.
jagged pier
u cant get to any amount of vers that actually does anything
waxen frigate
Blizz delete vers as a stat when 🙏
wary orbit
hmm okay. so should i put haste/crit on my crafted gear then?
warm plinth
That is what we would recommend, yes
wary orbit
Okay awesome
warm plinth
To be clear, vers isn't bad, nor is mastery. But vers stacking is a meme.
People see x streamer doing it and assume they should too
waxen frigate
People see x streamer doing it and assume they should too
I think most players also tend to ignore the defensive values of other “offensive” stats on a lot of tanks
warm plinth
I would agree with that for sure
waxen frigate
Parry go brr
warm plinth
wary orbit
I guess the only thing about crit for defensive value is that it can't mitigate anything that cant be parried or blocked right?
warm plinth
Parried, correct. But the bulk of the damage you take in every dungeon is auto attacks
wary orbit
Yeah
warm plinth
Which can be parried ofc
waxen frigate
Raid can be a slightly different story but also you never really need to worry about defensive stats/trinkets in raid unless you are on the bleeding edge of prog
lucid holly
It’s crazy that prot warrior can get to 0 mastery not playing beacon/450 tier shoulders though. I crafted crit haste shoulders and sit at exactly 0 mastery
jagged pier
thats bad
u some of every stat
espeically mastery having tier shoulders and beacon is enough to give u a sizeable increase in critblocking
we actually recommend around 20-23% mastery
its not a breakpoint but its quite a difference for barely any investment in a stat
chilly brook
How do you have that strict of a stat budget that you remove like 2 pieces and have none of a stat?
lucid holly
Meh I’m only doing 25/26 on war rn and I haven’t noticed any issue in living so long as I don’t face my back to stuff or mess up a gather and my dmg is nearly comparable to bear
chilly brook
Like are you just not equipping highest ilvl?
lucid holly
Crafted gear + 4 tier pieces with no mastery
Atm I don’t think critical block chance has a lot of value for me. If I’m blocking stuff I live. Maybe only exception is a giga bear pull I tried on BH 25 this week and I did fall over on that after 20 or so seconds. I def coulda played it better though. Healer died to stomp and I couldn’t sustain well after that
chilly brook
Crit block is very valuable, it’s not just a question of if you live or not
jagged pier
but crit blocking is a massive increase epsically for spells
lucid holly
I have not tried some of the wicked FH pulls though. Like my bear on FH 28 did the TGP pull and that was scary af
lucid holly
Aside from the few callers in HoI, where would that be useful though?
lucid holly
Nels as in neltharus?
chilly brook
Damage not happening or basically completely being nullified is always useful
lucid holly
Ulda I could see yeah
chilly brook
Especially when it comes at almost no loss for you
lucid holly
I did 25 ulda this week on war and thought it was pretty ez though
jagged pier
its actually also probably a damage increase to get some mastery if u have 0
lucid holly
I do get stat allocation being somewhat equal coming from bear but like, it doesn’t scale like that for other classes I think. I could be wrong though. I am certainly not an expert on that
Why would mastery be a dmg gain if I had 0 of it though?
chilly brook
Why would mastery be a dmg gain if I had 0 of it though?
Because it’s also AP
lucid holly
I mean I know it’s AP but
chilly brook
And just how diminishing returns work
lucid holly
It’s not more AP going from 0-1000 mastery than 1000-2000
jagged pier
its more of a guess but getting 20% mastery over like a few % of crit or vers
probably gunna do more
chilly brook
^
jagged pier
question for sims tho
lucid holly
And my crit/haste are near 5000 ish somewhere in there and my verse is at like 3k or six don’t know exactly
Or something*
I might be missing something but atm I’m gonna stay 0 mastery probably unless I get beacon in vault
chilly brook
But why
That’s literally ass backwards, there’s basically no downside to picking up a bit of mastery for a fairly substantial gain that happens fairly often
lucid holly
Cause the dmg gain and survivability of 5% more crit or verse is worth more to me than 5% more mastery
chilly brook
Is it though?
jagged pier
2.5% dr from that vers
chilly brook
5% vers is less survival gain than the mastery gain hands down btw
lucid holly
The crit block right, if I’m already facing mobs, I’m already blocking. And atm for 25/26 keys, blocking regularly is more than enough to live with nearly no healing needed
lucid holly
I mean to say, at my key level, crit block doesn’t help me live
chilly brook
That’s just not true
lucid holly
But if I never die, and the only thing that does kill me isn’t block able, why would 5% mastery be better than 5% verse for example
proper roost
chilly brook
Even if it were do you know for a fact that a few extra % of crit is worth more than mastery when you literally have none?
Have you simmed it?
lucid holly
Trying to think when I feel in trouble. Dot from NL hulk dude in particular
I mean I don’t no. I don’t take my war that seriously
Im not an expert. Im genuinely asking
chilly brook
……
jagged pier
and we've told u
chilly brook
We’ve given you answers
jagged pier
and u just disgreeed
lucid holly
Yeah but I’m asking for clarification
proper roost
he's not an expert tho
chilly brook
Your response is feelycraft and dismissal
chilly brook
Crit block and AP
lucid holly
Okay. But if the thing that kills me isn’t blockable, why would crit block matter?
chilly brook
Because 2.5% dr isn’t going to help you either lol
lucid holly
This is what I’m asking
jagged pier
for the same reason crit matters it mitgates other things further
so your IP
does more mitigation against the thing thats killing u
far more DR
than
2.5% DR
chilly brook
Vers is a meme
jagged pier
and u can just legit stop the damage sometimes
because we have no cap on spell block damage
lucid holly
In that case though, the 5% stats probably don’t matter anyway and I may as well have just gone for whatever
jagged pier
but 5% ver is not the same amount of stat than 5% mastery
lucid holly
Im not even taking spell block 90% of the time
jagged pier
they are not the same
chilly brook
5% of some stats (especially when you have none invested) are often times worth more than 5% of others
strong forum
the less you have of a stat the more you get out of it
jagged pier
u need far more vers stat wise to gain 5% vers than u do mastery
lucid holly
5% of some stats (especially when you have none invested) are often times worth ...
I’ve heard people say this but I still don’t understand why
crude notch
strong forum
going from 12% mastery to 24% mastery doubles your crit block chance
for exceedingly little investment
and is also a bigger offensive gain than any other stat at those low levels
lucid holly
the less you have of a stat the more you get out of it
But if that stat doesn’t scale whatsoever from 0-1000 compared to 2000-3000, why would you stop wanting it at 2000 but want it at 0?
strong forum
because thats how math works?
a 10% increase from 0->10 is a bigger increase than going from 20->30%
lucid holly
and is also a bigger offensive gain than any other stat at those low levels
Honestly though, why? You don’t get more from 0-1000 as far as I understand
How does that work
The number is the same is it not?
strong forum
because you already have 20%
chilly brook
I’ve heard people say this but I still don’t understand why
Because maths that happens behind the scenes and going from for example 25-27% crit chance just generally being a smaller gain than potential investment elsewhere
strong forum
going from 0-10% is a 10% increase
lucid holly
10% of 100 is 10. So every 10% is 10. 10-20% is also 10. 20-30% is also 10
strong forum
its not because you already have existing values
lucid holly
So how is 0-10% more important?
strong forum
you dont go from 100% to 110%
chilly brook
10% of 100 is 10. So every 10% is 10. 10-20% is also 10. 20-30% is also 10
That’s uhhh not how that works
lucid holly
I’m probably wrong and trying to understand so please do explain
strong forum
chilly brook
You don’t measure gains of something you already have from the lack of it
lucid holly
If it’s not 10% each step then how does it work
strong forum
an increase from 120 to 130 is only an 8.3% increase
chilly brook
You measure the gain from what you already have
strong forum
going from 10 to 20 is a 100% increase
crude notch
This isn't even like secondary stats related this is quite literally how maths works
strong forum
going from 20 to 30 is not a 100% increase
get it?
its a 50% increase
thats just basic math
same applies to stats in wow
chilly brook
Companies don’t say hey man we had a 130% increase in revenue when they went from 110k profit to 130k profit in a year
strong forum
the less you have of something, the more you get out of said stat
lucid holly
I am still not sure I follow exactly but okay. I shall take your word on it
strong forum
doesnt this illustrate it perfectly?
10->20 = 100% increase
20 -> 30 = 50% increase
chilly brook
Idk how to make it more digestible
strong forum
idk how else to describe it any simpler
lucid holly
I appreciate you trying
crude notch
A hungry person gets more out of eating food than a full person.
lucid holly
doesnt this illustrate it perfectly?
10->20 = 100% increase
20 -> 30 = 50% incre...
I admit, I still don’t understand how that works
strong forum
but why
chilly brook
I mean honestly the easiest thing to do is for you to just sim something with mastery at this point…..
strong forum
10 is 50% of 20
dusky canopy
If you’re not 40/40/10/10 are you even trying?
crude notch
I admit, I still don’t understand how that works
If you got 3 french fries and I give you a 4th french fry you increased 33% in french fries.
But if I got 2 french fries and I give you a 3rd french fry you've gained 50% in french fries.
I'm giving one french fry in both scenarios but it was a bigger gain with a lower amount.
strong forum
its just the same formula with different words
crude notch
yea
lucid holly
But the addition of each stat is just addition. It’s not multiplicative like that. Like. If at base level, mastery at 0 is 12% AP I think. So at 1000 of the stat let’s say it’s 24% AP. The increase to 2000 is still 36%. So that’s an equal 12% per 1000 stat
crude notch
You're trying to overcomplicate it when it's far simpler than you realize and that's why you're confused
strong forum
than just getting 1000 points of mastery when you have 0 being a bigger gain than going from 2000 to 3000
because of opportunity cost aswell
lucid holly
My brain is not working rn
chilly brook
But the addition of each stat is just addition. It’s not multiplicative like tha...
I mean sure it’s just addition, but it’s not just a simple 1 point of each stat is a static x amount of damage
jagged pier
Is this NA schooling in real time?
lucid holly
Awoo is tired Af and not following this conversation
ionic roost
When stat number small, more value per stat item if all stats are equal power
lucid holly
Like I get what you are saying but I don’t understand how it applies to mastery
chilly brook
That X value can fluctuate based on the amount of stat you have
Or lack of the stat
crude notch
It applies to all numbers.
Mastery is a number.
Thus, it applies to mastery.
strong forum
the most simple answer is without following the rules of math
when you have very little mastery
getting a tiny bit more mastery grants you more dmg than other stats
this applies to other stats aswell, in your case however specifically mastery
because of opportunity cost
just take that at face value
chilly brook
I mean I don’t no. I don’t take my war that seriously
Spent more time in this chat trying to have us explain how numbers work and whether mastery is worth it than the sub 30 seconds it takes to run a sim btw
crude notch
dusky canopy
If you have no French fries and you gain one you are very happy.
If you have two French fries and you gain 1 you aren’t as happy because you already had some to begin with
Jordan broke that down for you quite simply. It won’t get any easier to understand than that I think lol
crude notch
Now I hungy
crude notch
yeah well you're a doo doo head
chilly brook
Me gon throw that in the oven
dusky canopy
I have Buffalo chicken & broccoli mixed in with some cream cheese and mayo
Oh and some shredded cheddar
strong forum
tryna come up with an analogy
dusky canopy
2+2 = 4
strong forum
youre faster in a drag race you increase accellaration speed and max speed than if you would only increase max speed or only accelleration speed
dusky canopy
Quick math
strong forum
smth along those lines
dusky canopy
Put if after race sir
crude notch
Doesn't matter if you crash the car, dummy
dusky canopy
Makes it easier for the smol brain
Btw Max speed doesn’t matter if the race is 6ft
Witch would be equivalent to the +16s we usually* debate
urban portal
Btw Max speed doesn’t matter if the race is 6ft
That’s why I only sim for 5 seconds lust off no buffs
That’s the world content I do
dusky canopy
🧠
sick sentinel
finally
pepega trinket crafting is viable for me
only slot that isn't 447,
that or save them and make 2h
pallid quiver
Is this NA schooling in real time?
I mean, they at least taught this while I was going through school in NA land.
The students just refused to grasp it and said that there's never anytime they'd use this in real life, though.
Funny how we're discussing it in the context of a hobby some of said people engaged in at the time.
jagged pier
I mean i also did say or ul schooling we aint much better
Havent u guys got that not child left behind thing that just doesnt work?
lusty tiger
dusky canopy
Havent u guys got that not child left behind thing that just doesnt work?
Yeah we can’t hold kids back a grade anymore because it’s damaging to their feelings
jagged pier
Damn that dumb
strong forum
wait what
dusky canopy
Yeah bro murica on the everything offensives, feelings hurt train
dusky canopy
It’s quite annoying imo
lusty tiger
It’s joever for the kids
strong forum
she was held back in school by 1 year, but because she has absolutely 0 friends or connection in her new class
shes being upped again
which from a psyological standpoint makes sense
but also doesnt
cuz school is about more than just grades
alot more
lusty tiger
^
dusky canopy
Yeah like I get it right nobody wants to feel like they have no friends but like the first and most important point of school is to learn
strong forum
socially learn aswell
strong forum
learn how to tackle problems, make connections
etc etc
its teaching life in not so obvious ways
dusky canopy
Tough topic for sure
strong forum
yeah
dusky canopy
The biggest issue I see is that you can be socially accepted all you want but for example if you lack basic reading comprehension you will really struggle in your adult life
jagged pier
i dont think anyone is
dusky canopy
I can agree with that
Good thing we deal with WoW issues
Here
And not “real world” ones like that
Lol
crude notch
Yeah we can’t hold kids back a grade anymore because it’s damaging to their feel...
That's not at all what NCLB is lol
prisma crane
Damn that dumb
had a friend whose little brother wasnt doing anything in school, his parents went to the school to tell them to fail him and hold him back so he could learn that he has to pay attention and do at least SOME of his work, they wouldnt do it
dusky canopy
That's not at all what NCLB is lol
Educate me then
prisma crane
if you hold back a student it reflects poorly on the school, so they'd rather not
hell some schools now have something like 20% as a D
crude notch
Jesus Christ
jagged pier
yer i think thats bad the 20% for a D
but on the flip there was literally a guy in my year who was held back and it did help him
so who knows
🤷
prisma crane
people just need to find a way to not stigmatize it, its not always just some shithead who needs to be held back
its just hard when your friendgroup moves on without you
sick sentinel
whats the most sockets you can have equipped without being JC
prisma crane
same as being a JC iirc
dusky canopy
Had a kid in my grade who was held back he did perfectly fine socially and repeating the grade helped him as well
strong forum
whats the most sockets you can have equipped without being JC
8
3 on neck
1 helmet, 2x rings, belt and bracers
dusky canopy
Tbf I also attended a school where grades were not perfectly split like we had gym lunch and recess all mixed grade levels
sick sentinel
so it would be 7 gems for me cuz im thiking about doing the idol of dreamer
already have all ysmeralds socketed anywyas
cant use spark on anything meaningful besides 2h that i may never use
crude notch
Well gym lunch and recess aren't exactly something that needs to be split lol
Like what is going on in this chat.
sick sentinel
crude notch
Let's not let warriors talk about the education system.
dusky canopy
I was commenting on how a kid in my grade was held back and he did fine socially.
prisma crane
Well gym lunch and recess aren't exactly something that needs to be split lol
it was within the context of the social implications of a kid being shifted out of their previous year of peers
which imo plays a factor
dusky canopy
Brb googling all these big words and terminologies so my “warrior brain” can handle the conversation
Nvm I’m back I couldn’t handle googling
crude notch
I mean it's okay to admit you don't know the specificities of NCLB.
modern gazelle
crude notch
But stating with such confidence that it has anything to do with holding kids back at all is straight clown shoes
modern gazelle
sims slightly better ST than 441 beacon+447 anvil but only by like .1% lol
lusty tiger
it is cutting funding based off schools' performance
crude notch
Then krotos using an example of parents telling teachers to fall a kid, like it's a good thing that parents aren't allowed to do that.
dusky canopy
Nclb specifically passed to force schools to try harder to educate children
crude notch
Like neither of those things had to do with NCLB
dusky canopy
That is not what I’m talking about
I’m talking about how we can’t hold children back that struggle due to the social implications
lusty tiger
im sorry but i find it hard to believe school in general is that effective in teaching particular subjects because when i was 16 all i wanted to do was get to practice, finish, then go smoke weed with my friends
lusty tiger
alegbra 2 can smd
lusty tiger
I mean honestly the worst thing the education system did was common core
yea common core is a common disaster
chilly brook
Common core imo leads to more of the issues that cause kids to be in a spot where they might need to be held back to begin with
crude notch
I’m talking about how we can’t hold children back that struggle due to the socia...
Mbad you responded to jakey mentioning NCLB so I figured you were saying that it was part of the law
dusky canopy
The point of common core is to give the numbers meaning the argument is that the way we learned is just memorizing
I still like the way we learned it more
Naturally that’s a bit biased I guess you could say
crude notch
Also holding kids back from an emotional viewpoint has always been a thing even before we were in school.
dusky canopy
Mbad you responded to jakey mentioning NCLB so I figured you were saying that it...
All good bb 
crude notch
Schools across the globe factor that in on the decision.
lusty tiger
dam no freshman will ever smoke cigs driving themself to school again
modern gazelle
officially 447 with these 2 trinkets
crude notch
dam no freshman will ever smoke cigs driving themself to school again
Hmm?
lusty tiger
because they were held back lol
chilly brook
The point of common core is to give the numbers meaning the argument is that the...
The point is to have a standard across the board for everyone for consistency. The problem is that education isn’t something that can be applied the same to everyone, and often times common core hurts the ability to stay on subjects that kids might be struggling with in order to check off another box
prisma crane
in my example, my friend's brother was getting all Fs and Ds, he 100% should have been held back but he was not
and, in case that wasnt an OBVIOUS indicator of future actions, he didnt get his GED until he was like 25
crude notch
What grade level is this?
prisma crane
when his parents went to the school was around 4th or 5th grade i cant remember
dusky canopy
The point is to have a standard across the board for everyone for consistency. T...
Yes I get that too
crude notch
Most elementary schools don't even use the grade level scale.
prisma crane
maybe today
but not in the 90s and early 2000s
the fact they dont use a grade scale says enough imo
modern gazelle
in my example, my friend's brother was getting all Fs and Ds, he 100% should hav...
there is a lot of research that holding students back does not benefit them, what he needs is to stay with his class for social growth while also having access to courses that are his comprehension level. He likely needs extended help beyond that as well through either tutoring or study hall type class during the day.
Source: 8th grade teacher
crude notch
but not in the 90s and early 2000s
Well as someone that went to 4 different elementary schools in 3 different states in the late 90s. I'd say I might know.
prisma crane
there is a lot of research that holding students back does not benefit them, wha...
yea well he had tutors and was in all remedial classes, sometimes kids just need to stay behind
well as someone who went to that literal school, they had grades
crude notch
You're missing the point per usual.
modern gazelle
i dont have the time to have full on discussion, but i strongly recommend you look into the research on holding students back