existence of paladin
#protection
proper roost
more brm probably although i think the squishiness problem
maybe not surmountable
kinda hard to tell because like 95% of the good tanks/healers reroll
daring marlin
supposedly augvoker helps with brm tankiness exponentially
proper roost
yeah that makes sense
south zealot
warrior would also shine if the meta was melee
i just dont think thats true
yes armor means the most to brew ive heard
proper roost
yeah, i don't think pwar has a meta where it's good with the current DF designs, unless it's just individually extremely overtuned
and the limitations for the season change, like a more DPS focused season instead of a survival focused season
survival focused season disincentivizes selfish tanks so much
daring marlin
If prot warrior does hands down the most damage they'll be meta
south zealot
warrior also doesnt have insane cds like meta+cheat/incarn
south zealot
If prot warrior does hands down the most damage they'll be meta
depends on why the keys are hard
mossy chasm
LFR tanking is such a giga mental check for me for like no reason
it's easy as hell, I can tank 10's no prob
but still that raid group man
devout oyster
Which pwar weakauras are you guys using? Any suggestions?
subtle peak
it's easy as hell, I can tank 10's no prob
You could prob tank up to 17s no prob
mossy chasm
probably, with some more gear
subtle peak
Yeah I’d say around 437 it’s doable, just a mental barrier to get over
mossy chasm
392 on this fresh toon
mitigation kinda so so sometimes but also I'm bad at ignore pain
south zealot
Which pwar weakauras are you guys using? Any suggestions?
wdym
subtle peak
Oh if you’re 392 and tanking 10s then u got this ez
mossy chasm
nah I was just talking difficulty wise
south zealot
i just have atrocityui nothing else
mossy chasm
like it's easier for me to do a +10 than it is to tank an LFR just because of the scenario
I have done +10's on my first DF warr char around launch s1
but ig it's about practice
devout oyster
Yesterday I was tanking +15 neltharus with 412 ilvl damn that was scary
subtle peak
Ahhh true I get you, a lot more pressure in raids
mossy chasm
at least now I know you can't fuck up the first 3 bosses in lfr
because co tank did not taunt of me on stacks
subtle peak
I think the 2 bosses u gotta worry about this raid are rashok and nelth
uncut thunder
mitigation kinda so so sometimes but also I'm bad at ignore pain
I keybound mine to mouse wheel scroll and that made a huge difference for me.
mossy chasm
I keybound mine to mouse wheel scroll and that made a huge difference for me.
i did this as well, better now but still kinda slackin
a few more weeks of practice probably know the whole rota again, was easier to get back into prot than getting into augvoker
uncut thunder
Yeah, depending on the situation I just do a few rage creators and scroll the wheel. And repeat that and try not to over cap. And also have stuff left for needed abilities
mossy chasm
big issue for me rn is getting threat on some packs, sometimes use tclap, throw and shout and still got a few non aggro bois
I think that's literally only in bhide tho
uncut thunder
That and don’t be afraid to use your CDs all the time. That is a good one to learn
mossy chasm
yeah imo think im over doing it but not in content where it punishes me yet
fun to play some +8s and farm
uncut thunder
You could be out geared and that can be hard to snap aggro with grp that has much higher ilvl.
mossy chasm
yeah plus getting augs in like every group that buff a mage or some shit
uncut thunder
I have had that issue on my new bear tank. I was doing 5-8s and still a ton of blue gear and people were pealing off me
mossy chasm
just let them tank
had an evoker that rescued me to pull a pack last night, not a key tho thank god
we are not too far away from being automated by these new classes, soon they can MC us as well. giga brain.
mossy chasm
big item
mossy chasm
I should start running fh
proper roost
i think apb wrote this
god I love reading /r/wow comments
absolutely a different game
sick sentinel
i would like to thank freehold this week
for being so generous with dropping aspects
uneven mason
Bruh
sick sentinel
that guy has ego problem
i am the main character is a bit cringe when ppl really believe it
uneven mason
I tank so I don't have to tolerate even worse tanks
sick sentinel
as long as i dont go over time on this key i will have 3rd 447 item
uneven mason
Someone is all like "your rout is shit" and I'm like "I've seen the true end times, this is a blessing you simply cannot comprehend."
proper roost
Good luck yogi
You may have escaped 20 FH today
but as soon as ghash's internet recovers
You're getting dragged in buddy
warm plinth
👀
toxic pewter
i think apb wrote this
I didn't write that, I do not make jokes or memes
hallow phoenix
Crafted haste crit and a big crit vers ring
Before that was crafted + questionable loyalty
modern gazelle
for some reason im 1 craft behind and idk why must have accidently crafted and replaced something without thinking
so next craft is prob boots
prob just farm ulda for crit haste ring and find another dungeon ring
hallow phoenix
You should easily be able to catch up
Freehold, uldaman, HoI, and I think VP all have nice rings
modern gazelle
the problem with craft is i am caught up
for some reason im 1 behind though so i think i somehow crafted and replaced something
hallow phoenix
Ah
modern gazelle
not a huge deal realistically lol
hallow phoenix
The HoI ring is actually very good. Huge haste budget
modern gazelle
any new gear is like a .2-.5% increase
south zealot
dungeon rings are for noobs
sick sentinel
some dude in my dms trying to rinse me over an enchanted aspects
proper roost
sick sentinel
when i got it up for personal for same amount as last time
proper roost
Check reagent bank for the extra spark
sick sentinel
my guild apprently wiping to experiments
that could be them removing lust, nvm, i dunno if u can on that boss
proper roost
You can on every boss
round pendant
sarkareth is fucking cringe
sick sentinel
im watching one of them stream it
and they are a bear, legit clicking every ability
proper roost
You just need a fd/vanish/meld and you can easily reset sark
Not doable otherwise though yeah
daring marlin
sarkareth is fucking cringe
bzzzt, wrongo
daring marlin
I usually roll avoidance
sick sentinel
does it BUG you
daring marlin
cuz dps
proper roost
I have to have avoidance like a good little dps loser
sick sentinel
kek
warm plinth
The real question is why the fuck is he pressing swipe when he has raze available (a free one at that) and has full rage lol
proper roost
That's so powerful honestly
He's clicking
I mean
even yogi is razzing him
Got damn
warm plinth
I've played with multiple clickers who were good players
warm plinth
Yogi is like the opposite of this guy
Instead of only being able to press one button at a time, he presses them all at one time
sick sentinel
if you notice, he doesnt appear to have any abilities in the top 2 barrs bound to anything
and default keybinds
warm plinth
does he only have one hand maybe? 🤔
frozen rose
@shut summit watching a kill vid of urs, echo. you asked for bop a couple times. Curious as to why?
sick sentinel
never been in thiers
south zealot
<@105027920459776000> watching a kill vid of urs, echo. you asked for bop a coup...
the debuff has like 200% increased physical damage taken
sick sentinel
it has has character name i dont want to doxx someone like that
odd nimbus
guys how good is [Mirror of Fractured Tomorrows] for mplus?
sick sentinel
3 minute cd is rough
dusky canopy
<@105027920459776000> watching a kill vid of urs, echo. you asked for bop a coup...
You probably watched the VoD where calamity strikes could still overlap so without a bop he was dead
I don’t know specifically what you’re talking about
Just making an educated guess
shut summit
you bop in p3 so you dont have phys amp for adds
sand hound
are my stat balances ok?
2162 crit 6117 haste 1590 mastery 3259 vers
daring marlin
yes
sand hound
I mainly do m+
daring marlin
don't overthink it
sand hound
I don’t. It’s generally in the back of my mind but thought it’s been a while since I checked my stats and thought my haste might be a little high
daring marlin
negative
sand hound
And ty!
sand hound
Ty ty
sand hound
Sorry won’t ask again
lusty grotto
in general
its not just you
you should ask again, its just stat questions are a dime a dozen
we dont have a specific pin other than prio
daring marlin
jadedchip
frozen rose
@shut summit got it thx so...if ur bopped, all adds go to other tank then correct? not like bop gets rid of the debuff or anything.
sand hound
you should ask again, its just stat questions are a dime a dozen
I said I won’t ask again because i already have the answer 
shut summit
it gets rid of the debuff / prevents it
lusty grotto
I said I won’t ask again because i already have the answer <:keks:93623161085089...
fair enough
thats where our trusty "cancelaura blessing of protection to everything" macros win
and like Sense said
bop removes any and all physical debuffs
including bleeds
frozen rose
word. im not super on point with how bop works. so once the strike hits you from echo, call for bop, gets rid of debuff. hit cancel macro. GG
basically?
frozen rose
tasty
lusty grotto
there's literally no downside to having it macro'ed
its been that way for me since legion or before that
shell shale
Used to also have macro to cancelaura intervene into main abilities too
daring marlin
nah yogi I mean
sick sentinel
all filled in less than 60 seconds
daring marlin
sand hound
There’s mats missing
sick sentinel
oh, he wants you to pay it for him lol
sand hound
Yeah
sick sentinel
he might not have alot of gold
who knows
those resonants are only like 500 for 4
sick sentinel
37% mastery
daring marlin
It's only 1855 mastery
sick sentinel
i have like, 15% lol
lusty grotto
you have a dk yogi?
sick sentinel
yeah, but hes complete garbage
lusty grotto
well if it has 15% mastery, i can see why
daring marlin
he thicc
lusty grotto
ok so guilford is talking about his ilvl 435 DK
daring marlin
nimchip is cranky tonight
sick sentinel
i like protection warrior
sick sentinel
is the best sepc
lusty grotto
lol
sick sentinel
born to tank
sick sentinel
it seems pretty tough
daring marlin
How?
toxic pewter
i was jk, I was in a group with an aug and the 2 actual dps did less damage than me so I was like wtf goin on with dps
and the aug thought I was talking to them lmao
toxic pewter
aug spammed this 2 times at me LOL
daring marlin
that aug is cute
sick sentinel
does aug make us have 2 stacks of leap somehow
i swear to god in a run i did tonight, i saw, leaper, 2
lusty grotto
if you have any evoker
south zealot
it happens if any evoker is talented into time spiral and uses it
lusty grotto
it doesnt have to be aug
sick sentinel
oh im reading now
sounds cool, this ability is sort of busted lmao
shaman gets 3
daring marlin
fingers crossed for GOREHOWL
undone verge
echo is such a stupid ass fight
daring marlin
barbenheimer
undone verge
30 minutes tryin to teach ppl how to lower their map opacity
true portal
BIG DEEPS
also sorry for the dumb question, but are there any little tricks to stay alive when the 3rd boss comes in on mythic experiments? or a super defensive spec to use?
there's usually only 1-2 slows on the boss and im finding the stacks a bit uncontrollable at 10 even with constant clears
chilly brook
How’d Yogi key go tonight?
south zealot
How’d Yogi key go tonight?
don’t think it happened bc internet
chilly brook
F
tight dawn
Probably dumb question but are we prioritising haste/crit over haste/vers? is it just for more damage?
south zealot
it also helps defensively with parries
tight dawn
so i definitely should be crafting for haste crit?
chilly brook
Haste>crit>=vers>mast
south zealot
i have 2 haste crit pieces and 2 haste mastery pieces but those were crafted for fury and i dont care to redo them
tight dawn
ok thanks
proper roost
wat
south zealot
yes i heard freehold is deadge
lusty grotto
south zealot
@strong forum do you still think thunderlord isnt worth the point
i dont use revenege enough maybe show of force would help me lol
modern gazelle
just timed a 17 FH with my team having 23 dealths cause of butt pulls
warrior, 3 pally and druid, carrying our 418 pally to gear him up lmao
that dungeon timer is soooooo lenient
wooden widget
am i doing something wrong on chrono lord deios?
hes trucking me
should each dot be reflectable?
in the new dungeon
daring marlin
idk man I one-shot it
granted all three DPS died and me and the healer finished it
lmao
wooden widget
nice post logs
daring marlin
prot pally
wooden widget
oh
daring marlin
apb said you should have a CD up for every breath tho
pump IP and rotate SR with other stuff
I'd think SR would be good enough for one breath?
fit other CDs between it
wooden widget
ok i am just wondering if theres something obvious with the mechanics im missing
but ty
daring marlin
average hit was 400k
proper roost
idk what kind of question "should the dot be reflectable" is
proper roost
theres a spell reflect sheet
daring marlin
morchi was funny
though I could see her being super easy with like very mild coordination
stack up for adds, ok root them
proper roost
the adds have pvp cc duration
daring marlin
oh do they?
proper roost
not sure how big the slows need to be
proper roost
but yeah aoe slows and cc are really good
proper roost
i'm honestly pretty surprised they aren't nerfing any part of it this week
wooden widget
does spell block help with the dot from final boss of DotI?
modern gazelle
does spell block help with the dot from final boss of DotI?
all i know is spell block helped me live more
i think it blocks the add attacks
lusty grotto
does spell block help with the dot from final boss of DotI?
no
modern gazelle
which also chunk
wooden widget
Oh gotcha I’m gonna take it if it helps with adds
Thanks all
I haven’t tanked all season and I’m helping some guildies
It felt like a breeze up until this last boss
sand hound
So how do yall handle basilisks in a +22 ulda not being a dwarf? because i feel like i just get wrecked even with cds and nothing i can do.
sand hound
can you cancel cast the bleed like the guys later on?
torn gulch
yes you can outrange but it is hard
sand hound
is the only way to skip using pots or shroud? i generally only pug so those can be hard to find lol
torn gulch
i think it can be skipped by hugging the wall
you take the small berserker pack in the corner
then when one the basilisks goes away you can prob walk
hugging the wall
sand hound
gotcha
sand hound
i just feel like those things destroy me and wasnt sure if i was just missing some trick or something. the first quarter of ulda always feels yikes
torn gulch
the problem i have with those basilisks
is that they cast it too much
compared to the other ones from other dungeons that cast it once
like the ones in NL for example
and yes 3 stacks hurt
bad
even on the mobs with hail of stones i can control them with shockwave and fear
but basilisk cast like an automatic weapon
sand hound
I'm sitting at 444 ilvl so gera cant help me too much more so i feel like im missing something that im doing wrong since i struggle at a +22 when people are clearing +24- and +26 lol
torn gulch
realistically the problem pack is the 3 one
which i've seen skipped a lot
2 are not that bad
crude notch
Hi
south zealot
@shut summit do you have vod available of 27 uldaman
dusty jetty
hey guys im new-ish to tanking this season, just got splatted in HOI, is spell block the play for oceanic breath?
jagged pier
its better just to outrange it
dusty jetty
you can outrange it!?
ive just been taking it to the face trying to use defensive cooldowns
fml
lusty grotto
yeah you can
spell block isnt that necessary there, the biggest danger is not outranging the breath and/or not reflecting/stunning the icecaller casts
and of course not side stepping defender spear flurries and having bleeds stack at the start packs
dusty jetty
also, are you named after the injection?
yea, im diabetic
modern gazelle
what m+ key timer and mob percent tracker do you all use
lusty grotto
warp deplete
modern gazelle
i have angry keystone and im not liking it as much
someone mentioned warp delete to me earlier ima check that i think
modern gazelle
warp deplete
my ideal addon would track what percent we should be at at any point in a dungeon based off previous runs i have completed
like if you could somehow link it with mythic dungeon tools
restive scroll
Sense uses an addon that puts individual mobs abilities cooldown on their bars, anyone know what it is by any chance? Looks pretty neat
glass sequoia
restive scroll
https://wago.io/CooldownsOnNameplate
Thanks a bunch!
Didn't even realize it could be a wa
modern gazelle
quazii made a video a few days ago on how to edit it to your liking too
@restive scroll
dusty jetty
any tips on uldaman basilisks? is that a matter of cycling aoe stuns?
and/or dispelling spiked carapace
or is there something else
undone verge
any tips on uldaman basilisks? is that a matter of cycling aoe stuns?
kiting
odd nimbus
Guys between beacon 441
Mark of durgul 441
Call to chaos 447
I have a hard time deciding which two to choose for m plus,can you guys help?
I dont know what is the most accurate method to sim it,dungeon slice is monkagiga and patchwerck 5 boss 1min 30 sec is different from bloodmallet and almost always values mark.
Help please
jagged pier
Right because sims are based on your character
Bloodmallet uses t30 profile its unlikely u will have that gear
Personally i would go beacon and mark
mystic perch
WHat ilvl you think we needa be to survive the mega dung?
odd nimbus
WHat ilvl you think we needa be to survive the mega dung?
i think you can do it with 430 ,the more you know about mechanics your need for i level will decrease.
just have your tank go full defensive so the margin for healer increases and they can heal more squishy targets
mystic perch
cool cool ty
kind urchin
My co tank took his alt prot warrior in their at 402 and survived. He struggled a bit on the last boss but I helped him by calling his cooldowns for him and he made it.
toxic wadi
Is prot warrior still high button mashing high APM gameplay?
strong forum
Yup
On pull with CDs and everything it's like 113cpm
Average in a key is around 85 active cpm
Which is comparable to SL s3 prot apm
S4 prot was a bit faster than that
sick sentinel
my cpm after i realized we were going to fail the key
if only i put in that much effort throughout the entire key
daring marlin
@plush tendon bdk feels like you're owning until you look at the numbers
LMAO
love the animations
sick sentinel
BDK = heart attack simulator
constantly being brought down to 1 hp, to deathsave, and get healed, and then do it all over again, all key long
icy citrus
what is with this freehold, whole party dced, destroyed 3 keys in a row
chilly brook
BDK = heart attack simulator
Nah no heart attacks
The only reason you would feel that way is because you’re playing the class reactively
proper roost
react to dn
chilly brook
Contrary to popular belief you should be playing the class proactively
proper roost
what kind of popular belief is it that bdk isn't proactive
it's been that way like literally forever
chilly brook
Aka know when damage is supposed to come in and pool accordingly
chilly brook
what kind of popular belief is it that bdk isn't proactive
You ask most normies in the game and they think it’s a reactive tank
chilly brook
You asked what kind of popular belief lmfao
proper roost
if I ask "most normies" what augmentation is, they'll say it's the catalyst system in the game
i just don't think that has any weight
DS is reactive
the resource pooling is not
proper roost
the distinction isn't really that important until you play at a high level
chilly brook
It pops up in here quite often
Anyways the point really is that changing how you look at DK and actually understanding how to plan around incoming damage before it happens makes all the difference in the world
proper roost
no one who actually plays bdk thinks it is
only people who don't
So your advice like
literally doesnt matter lol
if you play bdk for 5 minutes you're like oh if i don't plan ahead i have no bone shield and run out of rp sometimes
proper roost
everyone can think anything they want about any other spec they don't play and it doesn't matter
chilly brook
You think he plays dk?
proper roost
Yogi, the guy who literally only plays pwar?
chilly brook
Idk why you’re coming at me all the time
proper roost
Yea he doesn't so why are u giving him advice about it lmao
uneven mason
BDK has certainly shifted into a proactive playstyle during SL and DF, BFA it was far more reactive, basically the polar oppisite of warriors when you compared how the kits were utilized.
chilly brook
Like you’re picking an argument just to argue
proper roost
sir you pinged yogi out of nowhere
uneven mason
you're a rat
chilly brook
Are you his brother? Now?
uneven mason
ofc he's gonna come at you bro
uneven mason
#thingsthatmakesense
proper roost
yogi doesn't give a shit about any insight into the game
that he doesn't make himself
and that's what makes him based.
plush tendon
the only reason why people think BDK is proactive is cause when a mistake happens at keys below 22, you can general dig yourself out of the hole with death strike
prot war, you have to have mitagation up before the hit and its harder to save yourself
proper roost
I mean I legit wonder the last time yogi ever played with a bdk
plush tendon
Yogi is a war
plush tendon
he has chosen the path of the prot war all day every day
sick sentinel
hardest mount in the game to get
strong forum
about as hard as any other 1% mount
sick sentinel
doesnt it take like average of well over 2000 runs?
strong forum
no lol
its a 1% mount
if it takes you 2000 runs, youre more likely to win the lottery several times in a row
lmao
sick sentinel
it claims ive only ran that place 5 or so times on my warrior but that cant be right
strong forum
all mounts that used to be 100% droprate after the expac is over get turned into 1% drop mounts
south zealot
people that say this are crazy
if you only use deathstrike reactively you will get globaled eventually
south zealot
ig it depends how fast reactively is but meh
strong forum
no
reactive means you do it in response to something
proactive means you do it before something happens
thats all there is to it
harsh light
Anyone mind helping me understand something with prot, stat wise,
i thought it was haste vers crit, but i found the great sense and have been watching his m+ vids and he is haste crit, does that drop survival or is haste really the only important stat
strong forum
haste isnt even "important"
its just the most useful
the only stat that is important is itemlevel
south zealot
Anyone mind helping me understand something with prot, stat wise,
i thought it w...
you want some of every stat, crit is good damage and also gives parries which is pretty useful
sick sentinel
i feel like BDK is the BDK and the healer both have to have a brain and not overlap overhealing bdk
south zealot
you can parry some of the more dangerous enemies
pallid quiver
Crit also can randomly swing into the best survival stat if you sinoly lucksack into parrying murder mechanics that are able to be parried
strong forum
i feel like BDK is the BDK and the healer both have to have a brain and not over...
you just dont heal a bdk
ever
south zealot
healing a blood dk is best done by never healing them
strong forum
healing a bdk is entirely wasted
pallid quiver
I throw passive hots and them and then watch their RP bar
south zealot
the issue with bdk historically has been they do less damage than every other tank
pallid quiver
if they have no rp for "some reason" then I actually chuck a heal
south zealot
why take a blood dk when you can take a bear that does like 50% more damage and is effectively the same tankiness
strong forum
the only healing ive received from my healer in the 23/24 i did this week was just passive healing the healer did by just throwing aoes around
and bear also brings 3% vers, offhealing and better CC than a bdk
south zealot
yeah leech + indomitable heals all the damage you take generally, can impending victory if a cast goes through and you dont reflect it
pallid quiver
I've received shit tons of healing from some healers in the past
I didn't need it, but by god, they'll let those DPS die, they swear to everything holy and unholy
Most times I've died in any recent time frames, something has gone terribly wrong
south zealot
the last time i died genuinely was to the hulk in nelths lair
the other times i die its just me looking away or standing in dumb shit
strong forum
hulks are by far the biggest threat in wow to us currently
cuz we dont have enough answers
strong forum
well praying is what gets people to believe "random oneshots" and "random deaths" exist
you gotta do it methodically, plan our your CDs and trinkets for the hulks specifically
south zealot
do you use defensive trinkets in NL or still damage ones
strong forum
if you go high enough, you want to use 1 or even 2 defensive trinkets for the hulks
thats the only thing that does anything to us in that dungeon
and you make up the trinkets with spellreflect
might even run IO for it
cuz pulls are tiny apart from first pull
so you dont need the rend application from thunderclap
south zealot
whats io
strong forum
immovable object
south zealot
oh yeah
strong forum
avatar grants SW and vice versa
south zealot
using avatar as defensive option 
sick sentinel
i got those new shoulders
strong forum
its only for 2 mobs in the dungeon
sick sentinel
they look pretty good
pallid quiver
Using Shield Block as an offensive option tho
That's where it's at
Gotta make the best of it while you're in it
sick sentinel
how do you turn spell block into offensive, isnt that reflect
south zealot
i havent even been doing the first hulk pull but getting high enough where i kinda have to
proper roost
is so efficient
shut summit
i used bsv in our 28 too
proper roost
but so spooky
shut summit
first pull is insane
south zealot
what did you drop for it
south zealot
thank you
sick sentinel
i should attempt a lair, but i'd have to run it on a 17 to get loot out of it
opaque igloo
Mirror of Fractured Tomorrows any good for us ppl?
opaque igloo
alright, thanks a bunch
sick sentinel
oh wtf, dalaran HS is a toy now, no longer takes up space in bags, and its a only a 20 m cd
daring marlin
i got those new shoulders
Lookin' good yogi
Though while sitting in town you should have taeshalach equipped with that mog.
exotic basin
are any of the paracusal trinkets good for us?
daring marlin
meh, just by the nature of them being 424 max they're pretty meh
daring marlin
sulfuras one maybe
toxic pewter
bloodmallet.com has all the paracausal trinkets and they all seem to be pretty bad
strong forum
yeah they are
sick sentinel
oh well, at least i think it went to paladin
sick sentinel
i did, just, i had to have them trade it to me, was a paladin both ways
paladin was an alt of some kind, had a 415 trinket and blue only lol
sick sentinel
that bumps up my IO though, im wanting a few more first time 16 whatevers on time, then i can feel secure applying to a more random hard key
daring marlin
They're both good but double on use is stinky
sick sentinel
and its an easy farm in FH / lair
currently i need like, about 17 i think is the number, aspects in total
22 runs assuming all are on time, at about 30 minutes a piece thats, 11 hours raw game play in dungeons
WAY more time, if i cant control if the key depletes or disbands
plush tendon
I want another trinket for my dk cuz like
gotta get mark of dargul
crude notch
Of all people to say it, smelly ass @brittle owl was the one.
south zealot
who is that
toxic pewter
that my alt account
south zealot
real?
brittle owl
who the fuck are you two
round pendant
lmao
south zealot
LMFAO
wild bison
3min CD for 3k secondarystat isnt all that hot
what i been telling ppl afetr doing a lot of testing. and witht he furuture self only doing like 40k dps its sucks.
strong forum
the future self only auto attacks, thats just flavour text
sick sentinel
well
give him small attack, and a big attack, make it 6 abilities total, (2 for dps, tank, heal specs)
if its flavor text, should be yellow
what i want, is the sandglass
any tips for this pull, i didnt go wipe a group to it, yet. this pull seems to give trouble, someone always dies here
round pendant
Personally I just take the clouds + assassins in 2 pulls and skip the dragon
strong forum
any tips for this pull, i didnt go wipe a group to it, yet. this pull seems to ...
dont do pull 9
do assassins -> dragon
not both together
sick sentinel
what i would replace 9 with personally is this
round pendant
that's awful
round pendant
round pendant
Sparks are fun
daring marlin
said nobody ever
round pendant
I guess the first pack of sparks is kinda annoying
warm plinth
Pulling assassins into dragon is stupid
round pendant
But yeah you can simply not skip the dragon
warm plinth
Because they are going to be healing the entire time
sick sentinel
route im looking at says 102% and only skips the second dragon and the dragon is over 4%
south zealot
Because they are going to be healing the entire time
also risky
daring marlin
Had a bear pull right cloudburst with right assassins->drag->same other side
seemed good
sick sentinel
so, i duno
daring marlin
yes
sick sentinel
cuz like...... wut....?
the only non selected mob in the whole dungeon is the other dragon
daring marlin
If you do second drag you can skip first spark pack
It's the only real choice in the dungeon
warm plinth
You can only skip either 1 dragon or 2 assassins and one star pack
Those are the only options
round pendant
please don't pull the assassins around the first dragon like that
daring marlin
I just do drag cuz fuck sparks
round pendant
that's so GROSS
sick sentinel
okay, the squalls will nuke us if i do those dual pull right
and then all the ones before 2nd boss is pulls together, cuz i know that is also a very gross pull
daring marlin
You can pull right or left squalls with one pack of assassins on either side if you want to
hazy bronze
I normally let the healer choose if they like the dragon or sparks more
warm plinth
Why are you splitting the squalls
sick sentinel
thats what the first rebuttal to my picture showed
daring marlin
I was just saying you COULD do that if you don't want to take all the squalls together.
I had someone do it in a 22, worked well.
warm plinth
The only thing you shouldn't do in that area is pull shit with the dragon
sick sentinel
its still only listing me as 419/420 99.76% tho
warm plinth
If you skip the dragon you have to do all assassins
daring marlin
its still only listing me as 419/420 99.76% tho
That's because you take the assassins with the second squall pack
warm plinth
Including the two on the other side of the first dragon
warm plinth
There is no exact count route in VP
sick sentinel
okay, so you want me to do this?
round pendant
I want Wailing Caverns m+
uneven mason
Original or cata version
round pendant
Original
sick sentinel
mythic + old scholo
warm plinth
Leave it to yogi to over complicate the easiest route in the rotation
sick sentinel
split it up in half or 3rds
round pendant
Honestly tho after doing this megadungeon I'm left thinking, why the fuck do we have timers in m+? it actually provides nothing of value and just causes toxicity
sick sentinel
Leave it to yogi to over complicate the easiest route in the rotation
i'd much prefer not to screw it up
round pendant
reward for doing it faster without a timer = more loot
punishment for not doing it fast = less loot
that's enough blizz, let's remove timers now
warm plinth
You don't get less loot though
round pendant
You get less loot per time invested
Are people worried about people doing +25s in 3 hours? they're still not gonna be at the top of the scoreboard
warm plinth
There's literally nothing to screw up in vp. Just do the normal route
round pendant
It'd be interesting to see the strats people come up with to complete a +35 in 6 hours
warm plinth
People don't even like dungeons longer than 30 minutes. And nothing is stopping them spending 6 hours in there now
uneven mason
i'd much prefer not to screw it up
The 1 minute difference between pulling literally everything in the dungeon and praying that your pug isn't going to try and lick the 2nd drakes anus on a dare, won't be the make or break of your key
sick sentinel
i don't really know this route very well though for fort week
round pendant
People don't even like dungeons longer than 30 minutes. And nothing is stopping...
Your key gets delevelled and you can't progress forward "infinitely" (given enough time to actually do it)
sick sentinel
hoping to get io and make progression
uneven mason
i don't really know this route very well though for fort week
Vp is linear, don't even sweat any skips
warm plinth
It's stupid if you can progress forward infinitely in that way.
round pendant
Why?
warm plinth
Because no one is gonna fucking do it lol
No one wants to spend 6 hours in a dungeon
round pendant
Well it was an exaggeration
My point was just that it actually doesn't affect the balance of the game or affect the integrity of the competition
It'd just move the numbers up while making lower level keys less toxic
tiny stirrup
Shield of the hearth garbage embel compared to the others?
daring marlin
Shield of the hearth garbage embel compared to the others?
Correct. Do not craft.
tiny stirrup
figured but wanted to ask : ( thats too bad haha
daring marlin
It'd just move the numbers up while making lower level keys less toxic
I don't think it would do either of those things. The timer is fun.
warm plinth
How is it going to make lower keys less toxic? You said yourself that it's less loot for the time investment. Most people wouldn't even stay in a dungeon for 1 hour, much less more than that.
M+ needs to be changed but this is not the way it needs to be changed.
The people who want to spend hours in dungeons for fun already do that. Look at the streamer who spent over a day in Spires or something
round pendant
Because people mald when keys are about to deplete, or if they THINK it's going to deplete. Plus it just feels like a waste of time when you've just deleveled a key and gotten no points
warm plinth
It's not going to change if you do what you're suggesting. People will create their own arbitrary timers instead.
round pendant
For the top tier players they'll have their own sweat metrics but anything below a 20 would become a lot less toxic imo
since what are people malding about in those keys? bricked keys
because some clown griefed the group or whatever
warm plinth
People get mad at keys about to deplete because a.) you get less crests, b.) you get less score, and c.) keys over 20 get no score.
It has nothing to do with the actual deplete mechanic
daring marlin
Not true, yam. What people do 20+ trickles down to lower keys no matter what.
sick sentinel
that and its a public ding on their out ward facing raider IO score if they take the ding and complete
so, people see, oh, he failed that key
warm plinth
And how exactly do you set the point system to work with that? What does doing a +35 in 6 hours equate to point-wise?
round pendant
Nothing, but you're a group who completed a +35 in 6 hours and now some other sweatlords will want to beat that
sick sentinel
id be 36 hours to clear the first boss
round pendant
But if your group you get for a +24 sucks ass, it doesn't become a +23 because of factors out of your control and you can just go agane
warm plinth
You realize that you would still have to be like top .00001% players to complete a 35
Even in 6 hours
See now you're on to something. Depleting a 24 should NOT become a 23. That I agree with. The rest, I don't.
round pendant
That was my point though, it doesn't harm the competition side of things while making the lower shit less rage inducing for worse players
So you're just saying the key shouldn't +1 if you don't time it?
warm plinth
The healthiest change for M+ right now would be to make key levels similar to greater rifts in D3. Once you complete level x-1, you can keep doing x as much as you want. If you time x, then you can do the next level up as much as you want.
round pendant
I guess that'd be ok too
warm plinth
Separate it by dungeon so people aren't doing e.g. Underrot 20s when their best VP is 15
round pendant
I just feel like gutting rewards on low level keys (if you fail to time it) just makes people behave like assholes in +15s lmao
warm plinth
And then you can essentially prog dungeons if you wanted, and depleting a dungeon from a key lowering perspective doesn't matter.
round pendant
but yeah your solution is probably better tbh
strong forum
The healthiest change for M+ right now would be to make key levels similar to gr...
we want that since legion
but nuh uh, depleting is somehow good
warm plinth
Yeah, I think Blizz is in a different mental state since then though
daring marlin
At least the keys don't actually get bricked anymore
warm plinth
considering back then you completely bricked the key and had to run it for no reward to get your key back
strong forum
that was so mega dumb
daring marlin
THAT was the worst shit
sick sentinel
bring back delete keystone from bags
round pendant
I always thought depletion was stupid, but I also think the timer is just kinda pointless since even without it being mandatory to time it to get decent rewards (I know there's some leniency on this) people will still compete on trying to do keys fast.
Lmao I remember boosting people in +15s or whatever the highest meaningful key was for gear back then
in Legion
and if we fucked up and bricked their key we'd be like WE'RE SO SORRY and give them a refund
pallid quiver
The sheer existence of a timer stresses people out a hell of a lot, even if the timer means literally fuck all. I think the toxic parts of M+ would be less so if the timer wasn't present, but it wouldn't stop people from leaving or raging or what-have-you
strong forum
and heres me wanting timers for d4 sigils
pallid quiver
It'd still be decently toxic, because a good chunk of players play to be toxic
crude notch
What I miss
pallid quiver
just gotta find the good people
strong forum
cuz otherwise youre just gonna do each key in 2hrs+
crude notch
what cooked takes are going on
strong forum
and just wipe through it
crude notch
quick a summary
strong forum
until you complete it
crude notch
who's on what side
warm plinth
I think you guys are dreaming if you thnink removing the timer would reduce toxicity. It could actually get worse because dungeons that are often 2-chested would just end up getting a shorter time in players' minds
Why would I spend an hour doing Underrot 20 when I could be out of there in 30 minutes
pallid quiver
imagine people staying for a 2+ hr wipe run when I can't even get them to stay for 5 minutes to get to the dungeon smh
strong forum
imagine people staying for a 2+ hr wipe run when I can't even get them to stay f...
what about doing world first +30
in 2hrs
then 31 in 4 hrs
then 32 in 5 hrs
pallid quiver
then 32 in 5 hrs
Yeah, to be honest, this is the after effect that removing the timer would cause
strong forum
keys dont reset
crude notch
Yeah I was thinking
crude notch
Do they after a week though?
strong forum
like normal
round pendant
Why would I spend an hour doing Underrot 20 when I could be out of there in 30 m...
People who are used to bricking keys are the less toxic ones, people who value this +20 as something impactful in their progression are the toxic ones (they feel they're losing out on something) so they'd be less bitter about a 1 hour +20 than someone who runs +25s every season. My idea is mainly for preventing toxicity from shitters
pallid quiver
Your average player would probably be a lot less pissy if the timer was gone considering timers just in general stress people
crude notch
Oh gotcha
round pendant
but ye I think the rift-like solution is the best
pallid quiver
I don't really know which extreme is better,
strong forum
Your average player would probably be a lot less pissy if the timer was gone con...
to me, the timer makes it alot more fun
cuz you have to play well to count it as succeeded
round pendant
I mean it's fun when you complete a key with 5 seconds left
pallid quiver
As someone who's done speedruns and the like and wil self-compete in games, I understand and agree, to be honest
round pendant
But that usually means your group was pissing you off for the rest of the dungeon lmao
strong forum
idk not having a timer is kinda dumb
but
the timer should be there, but if you "deplete" by a few seconds, it shouldnt be 0 score
warm plinth
I think the timer is the challenge. Imaging pugging keys that had infinite time. You'd have tanks doing pack by pack the entire dungeon
strong forum
you just cant advance to the next keylevel
round pendant
There should be a timer, just no rewards or punishments should be based on it beyond your position on the leaderboard
warm plinth
It would be awful
pallid quiver
I think the timer is the challenge. Imaging pugging keys that had infinite time...
If individual packs were more interesting, honestly, content like this would be interesting to me, personally. It's just not how things are designed since it's not fun to most people, understandably so I think
round pendant
I guess you don't want people bruteforcing themselves to +20 keys, so maybe you could require within-time for a +1 to the key after +16s or something
But you should get some minimum points for just COMPLETING the key regardless of time, imo
warm plinth
Define more interesting? Because there were packs in heroic dungeons back in TBC where you had to CC 2 mobs or you'd die in the average pug. That would be really fun wouldn't it
strong forum
grim batol was only hard cuz people had no idea what kick or CC is
or coordinated group play
crude notch
Define more interesting? Because there were packs in heroic dungeons back in TB...
I made the mistake of reading this from last sentence to first
And I was about to flame you
pallid quiver
Currently, if you were to take a single pack at a time, it'd be just interrupt/CC mob, ezpz. Without any stressors, it's... not difficult these days because of the above. Rather, not on the difficulty slider, but like solved? I'm not sure exactly how to make a pack interesting without the timer and other stressors without just turning every pack into a raid boss encounter or something, but it'd be nice to see an attempt someday
strong forum
proven by literally every xpac in history
the most fun dungeons, were ones where you went big aoe ham
coincidence?
round pendant
I made the mistake of reading this from last sentence to first
do you have adhd
this is not an insult btw
genuinely curious
crude notch
no i have 0 sleep 10 hour concert, feeling like i got hit by a bus, no voice.
pallid quiver
It's just that I want to see what else could be done with the combat system if it was able to be thought up. I'm dumb as hell, so I can only feely-grasp at ideas and I haven't come up with any solid solutions. So it's not like I have any desire to change the status quo; I definitely don't know what's best. Well, other than key levels dropping. That's just annoying to me and I think almost everyone here would agree
warm plinth
Yeah I think it's safe to say the vast majority of people would be fine with it if keys didn't go down in level
round pendant
This season it feels less bad I suppose because I still need plenty of crests rn
warm plinth
unless you make them go down
round pendant
but when your previous best is a +16 for example and you have a +17 key you try to run and some idiot griefs it
it feels so fucking bad
I'm stuck having to either do my key which I've already done or join other groups for the rest of the week
and those groups might not even exist considering I couldn't even find a single +16 VP to join to get my friend some io points last night
unkempt rover
Question folks
I have 441 beacon, anvil and grapnel. For ST in raid do I wear beacon and anvil?
strong forum
ye
strong forum
nothing scales with avatar
strong forum
ye
unkempt rover
Oki merci
sick sentinel
i need red version of fire lands armor due to rag shoulders
daring marlin
gene sucks
sick sentinel
need belt and boots and legs i think
dusky canopy
strong forum
bad tank
dusky canopy
strong forum
angular synphoria
dusky canopy
I explained to this guy twice in the dungeon that avoker dps doesnt appear correctly on details
and he continued to flame the entire run
quite funny
toxic pewter
surely he was joking.. right..
dusky canopy
I mean he sure seemed serious
toxic pewter
what a world we live in
dusky canopy
maybe he just was trying to be funny
toxic pewter
just straight up ignorance on full display
daring marlin
LOL
hazy bronze
I know I make that joke but I'm not original
dusky canopy
nome i think he litterally said something like that
strong forum
dude failed the perception check
warm plinth
I literally call every Aug shit in my keys but I make it clear I'm memeing
south zealot
holy
south zealot
Yeah, yeah. Tank overall dam in m+.
getting a grey damage parse genuinely seems impossible
crude notch
upi
you're aware that SOMEONE has to be the grey parser
like it's mathematically impossible for someone not to be the grey parse
daring marlin
Just funny to see when someone is a loudmouth douchebag that has it.
south zealot
true
daring marlin
checks out tbh
sick sentinel
need 3 more runs currently for another 447
toxic pewter
i am gray parser
daring marlin
liar
left basalt
Anyone else see this when they hover over skyhold?
Been like this for a few days now?
secret 72 hour stream?
strong forum
bugged
left basalt
i've reset discord a bunch too, weird
toxic pewter
who that
daring marlin
toxic pewter
tfw when you join group with devestation evoker 
south zealot
jb is chad
quick garden
fellas how am i meant to get a shield and one hander at low level
modern gazelle
so ive never had this issue till today when i was helping friend get aotc, but on heroic sark, the dispel kept booping me off edge cause it was getting dispelled when i would be removing my void claws debuff
i tried to stay as close to middle as possible but the knockback range is massive, so is there something i need to do different or do they just need to be waiting to dispell tilli m in a better position
south zealot
fellas how am i meant to get a shield and one hander at low level
wdym
south zealot
i tried to stay as close to middle as possible but the knockback range is massiv...
just go down with the debuff
quick garden
wdym
im talking im fresh off spawn and i wanna level through dungeons and tank right
but im not buying a one hander or something off ah for like 30 grand
modern gazelle
just go down with the debuff
even in phase 2?
proper roost
if you're a gamer you can leap mid knockback
south zealot
im talking im fresh off spawn and i wanna level through dungeons and tank right
if you sone have heirlooms you can buy white weapons from vendors in stormwind and orgrimmar
proper roost
have to have choco reflexes though (zoomer player)
south zealot
or you can buy cheap greens
modern gazelle
if you're a gamer you can leap mid knockback
i tried this multiple times and it didnt let me which was weird
proper roost
not fast enuf
quick garden
if you sone have heirlooms you can buy white weapons from vendors in stormwind a...
yeah no i dont
ty
modern gazelle
i have pugged heroic sark like 4 times now and never had the dispell issue till today the knockback range felt massive
like i was barely away from mid and it would push me almost alff the edge
proper roost
You were further than you think you were
how do you think anyone else in the group survived then
if it was that big
daring marlin
kanga look in arms chat
proper roost
Also really bad dispel timing if it's being dispelled then anyway but also you can just solve this yourself anyway like choco said
daring marlin
Very spicy
proper roost
modern gazelle
You were further than you think you were
i mean i was far enough from mid that my void claws doesnt hit anyone as close as i can get to mid with the range of void claws
modern gazelle
i wish i wouldve, i was just helping someone get aotc so i didnt bother logging it
daring marlin
CHOCO LOL
modern gazelle
never had the issue with the knockback before just felt rough
proper roost
kanga look in arms chat
way too old to give a shit about balance changes tbh this literally has happened every single patch of every single expansion ever
literally could be the best meta ever
and ppl will bitch they're not the #1 spec
I think that guy's one of the people who unironically said in fury chat they depleted their key 8 levels down in a row or smth
name is familiar
dusky canopy
kang guil
modern gazelle
also, i usually pre stack 5 oblivion so i can go down at around 10s, but what do you guys do if you have to go down in phase 3 and the comic ascension spawns
proper roost
well i main fury
proper roost
but yeah same exact sim settings, i haven't simmed aoe in ages tho
daring marlin
same tbh