there's a noticeable progression on yogi's keys over the season
#protection
proper roost
sick sentinel
as i review my self getting hit by 2 creeping rots
proper roost
the hitbox is just bad, you just have to be to the side of the boss and max range, not behind
it's a little harder to tell where your hitbox is on male tauren, but what I generally do is quickly tap backpedal to maxrange melee range every time she moves
lusty grotto
im just a doofus and thought he was tanking for us
proper roost
you saw the hp pool and got confused
but you forgot that prot warriors don't exist
lusty grotto
yea lmao
proper roost
tbh fury warriors in M+ spec have giga hp
lusty grotto
they also pump
proper roost
i kinda wish i could take the stam talent during raids because it just makes it impossible for you to die
and all your healing except the BT crit dot scales with max hp%
modern gazelle
@sick sentinel thats a hella big cursor lmao
warm plinth
that's what she said
modern gazelle
also the size of the stances xD
crude notch
Still not as big as Pumps' cursor and that man is a God gamer, so maybe yogi is onto something
proper roost
i think yogi is probably just old
i don't know how old he is, but if i had to guess he's in his late 30s or early 40s
crude notch
He has it to see better but still has an extremely cluttered UI which would actually help him see it better more than making it bigger.
proper roost
well he just has everything big
on account of the bad eyes
on account of hte being old
you wouldn't understand because you are a ZOOMER
crude notch
Cool then, I'll play evoker so I don't have to see your ugly mug
The better someone is at the game the more they're gonna want an augvoker. So I guess you suck
proper roost
based
aug doesn't sound very fun tbh but i really didn't enjoy the empowered spells idk
something about hover/empowered spells really didn't click for me
it seems kinda weird that there's not much talk about how good aug will or won't be in keys still
it's almost monday and i still haven't done a single key on my shaman AND i'll be busy all day tomorrow 
not looking good
cerulean tusk
You might want to clear your UI up a bit, Yogi. You don't need to see the castbar of Rot and Wither 3 times with healthbars. You can hide your ability bars, move your timers to one spot and hide buffs and random clutter.
While it might not be obvious, trust me - your brain is working overtime trying to process all that information. Once you reduce the clutter, things will feel more easy - as your brain no longer have to ignore so much information that is on there constantly calling for attention in animations and colours.
neon halo
hello is there a WA for the sunder attack form boss 2 on nletharion's lair? or is there a clue when is gonna cast it so I can reflect it?
twin bramble
just starting to dabble in raid now that kid is sleeping thru night
when do you know that add lost shield and its safe to bring boss to it?
mighty valley
on neltharion you mean?
lusty grotto
hello is there a WA for the sunder attack form boss 2 on nletharion's lair? or i...
you gotta watch dbm/bigwigs timers, its his cd
if it aligns with totem he wont use it
mighty valley
the shield is visible on the bar like most shields
neon halo
on neltharion you mean?
yes that one
lusty grotto
just use reflect as the cd goes down (as the timer goes down on dbm/bigwigs)
youll get a feel as per when he uses totems/hands instead
neon halo
if it aligns with totem he wont use it
ok ty I have WA that show his cd for hands and totem on the side of his life but didnt had the one for sunder
lusty grotto
i mean just watch dbm/bigwigs timers
neon halo
ill do thatè
lusty grotto
if sunder timer is aligned with bellow or strike, he wont do it so dont reflect
twin bramble
the shield is visible on the bar like most shields
but it doesnt have a tell?
lusty grotto
otherwise reflect
lusty grotto
when do you know that add lost shield and its safe to bring boss to it?
what are you specifically talking about
you said raid
twin bramble
just use reflect as the cd goes down (as the timer goes down on dbm/bigwigs)
nelth heroic
twin bramble
yeah sry i replied to wrong message
lusty grotto
do you have nameplates?
the add doesnt have a visible nameplate when hes not active
twin bramble
yeah thats why im asking
lusty grotto
so dont bring the boss to him
twin bramble
does he look not active when people are attacking him with the buff?
lusty grotto
if you cant see the nameplate dont bring boss to him
mighty valley
on heroic yeah
nocturne spindle
Also the friendly targets will stop showing up
twin bramble
cool thanks. last question, do i ever get buff as a tank to attack add? or do i just only worry abotu boss whether MT or OT at the time
lusty grotto
the instant you see the nameplate, you move boss to him and also keep in mind you gotta be ready to move the fuck away to properly use sunder shadow to get the wall down
mighty valley
honestly on heroic you probably don't need to worry crazy hard about maximizing cleave damage, it's kinda easy to hit the damage limit anyway
lusty grotto
cool thanks. last question, do i ever get buff as a tank to attack add? or do i...
no
twin bramble
thank you!
lusty grotto
its only dps
crude notch
what is?
crude notch
what change?
your picture doesn't highlight anything that's different from right now
warm plinth
I love no context pictures
crude notch
jagged pier
well its that the grottos nertherwing gets dragonflying doesnt right now i beleieve
crude notch
it already has dragonriding
pallid fox
there is no reason to ever hit WW as prot, right? Just use rev instead?
Just like you should never use slam?
jagged pier
no reason
toxic pewter
I don’t always slam, but when I do, I prefer shield slam
pallid fox
deciding to relearn prot, and realized I over did it with keybinds before looking at rotation
pallid fox
oh god, why is battle scared veteran not a real cheat death
lime urchin
Because we don’t die here, sir
lusty grotto
we also dont take it
the proc is way too inconsistent, its not worth talenting into
warm plinth
It's actually VERY consistent since it basically procs on CD whether you need it or not 
lusty grotto
oops, its late
pallid fox
So the wowhead article says Battering Ram is "bad" but without qualifications. Yet it seems to be in every build
crude notch
So the wowhead article says Battering Ram is "bad" but without qualifications. Y...
where does it say it's bad?
pallid fox
where does it say it's bad?
jagged pier
I mean u can just ping llarod and ask why, different guide writers have different perspectives of things
lusty grotto
discord is having issues
just a heads up, mwahi is not updating that guide, he does icy veins
crude notch
Hello discord
lusty grotto
ye
crude notch
that's probably a whoopsie because if you read the talent section
he says
it's good
the annotation shit can also be finnicky af
pallid fox
WTF discord
jagged pier
Nome and mawhi doing icy veins llarod does wowhead just different views, and guides are just a starting point, its not always the be all or end all
crude notch
Except he literally takes it in all his builds
so it's more than likely an oopsie
in the annotation part
he doesn't actually think it's bad
pallid fox
Nome and mawhi doing icy veins llarod does wowhead just different views, and gui...
Just trying to ramp back up after .....8 years?? of not tanking
crude notch
There's no different views
pallid fox
A lot to catch up on, tanking has changed a lot
crude notch
on that talent
pallid fox
....icy veins is still a thing? and worthy to read?
lusty grotto
yes
crude notch
it varies
lusty grotto
for us yes
birdemani i remember your name, tanking hasn't changed a lot since the last time you spoke here
crude notch
just like any guide website ever it's gonna vary per spec per class per who proofread
urban portal
tanking is just dps under a different name now
crude notch
You mean when he was in here a year ago?
pallid fox
I mean, I was here during beta seeing if I liked it
crude notch
sussy baka birdman
pallid fox
just never tried it
lusty grotto
well maybe i dont remember that name from this discord
im kinda positive he has been here before
pallid fox
I have
lusty grotto
yeah so youre not that old
pallid fox
Ive mostly been around since vanilla launch so ya
lusty grotto
not a lot has changed, just talents
urban portal
is there actually a tank where you NEEd to actively choose between spending resources on offense and defense
crude notch
yes
urban portal
theres like prot war (kind of) prot pal (kind of)
crude notch
Maul cost resources and so does Ironfur
urban portal
but maul doesnt even contribute that much to dps outside of ST right
thats my understanding in SL
i remember maul doenst even need to be bound except for DOS
urban portal
back then there was no raze right
crude notch
and in two days they'll be separate buttons
urban portal
i see
crude notch
Yes but back then you still hit maul
pallid fox
So ...is wall our big cooldown to live through stupid stuff? because as I'm learning this 4pc, we are spamming last stand on cooldown
pallid fox
Life Giving Gem, the talent (kinda)
crude notch
Classic andy 
pallid fox
Fuck classic. I was vanilla, bitch
crude notch
classic andy
pallid fox
Pretty sure I was one of the first 10 or 15 warriors in vanilla, world wide, to ahve finished T3
And pretty sure I finally looted Helm of Might, finally, once we cleared Naxx because RNG
crude notch
Sorry if you're referencing stuff from 2005 you're a classic andy
pallid fox
I'll have you know I never installed Classic because it wasn't vanilla. Also fuck doing that shit again
pallid fox
wtf is going on with discord
crude notch
wym?
pallid fox
my messages just randomly wont send
crude notch
I'll have you know I never installed Classic because it wasn't vanilla. Also fuc...
wait so you're a #NotMyWoW andy, that's kinda worse
lusty grotto
could be one for the bait list
he tanked during SL
so idk why we're even talking about vanilla
lmao
i knew i recognized the name
soleah's? DOS?
🤔
in that case: tanking hasnt changed at all for you
crude notch
wtf was afe?
lusty grotto
cant remember tbh
jagged pier
Trinket
lusty grotto
considering hes talking about DOS though
crude notch
susge
jagged pier
I think
crude notch
ahhh
lusty grotto
time for 
crude notch
gn legend
pallid fox
he tanked during SL
Ya, I may have tried for a day
pallid fox
Ya, I may have tried for a day
Which may be happening again
crude notch
man it's okay to admit you played
pallid fox
most things during the "meaningful choice" era annoyed me
pallid fox
wait so you're a #NotMyWoW andy, that's kinda worse
get off my lawn
crude notch
nim was right you're on the list
crude notch
Have a great day today legends of skyhold
proper roost
ty u too
sick sentinel
Ya, I see people arguing jts classic no it's vanilla
sick sentinel
i always call it 2004 wow now to avoid confusion
vanilla and classic are NOT the same thing
jolly crystal
Classic is what we have now, Vanilla is 2004 Wow at the time it released
I thought I would be excited for "TBC Classic" but I knew after seeing classic it was never gong to be anything close to what I played at the time of release
sick sentinel
people like to use vanilla interchangeably with classic
crude notch
who?
sick sentinel
2004 vanila was shit, i was there, have to fly to each indivual flight master and get off, and then talk to same dude to get to next flight master, or worst, have to go on foot to get the connecting so you can find and learn the new flight master
proper roost
i'm gonna make some pulled pork today jordan
crude notch
yummy
uneven mason
2004 vanila was shit, i was there, have to fly to each indivual flight master an...
One graveyard in all of the barrens, never forget.
Die at rfk? 
sick sentinel
didnt have to remember that shit to begin with
paladin chad 2004
alliance had it way better overall than horde back then
orchid mural
I'll always remember getting my friend's human character from eastern kingdoms to kalimdor so we could level together - something silly like lvl 5 or so. that was a walk.
sick sentinel
wait no i do remember it now cause i did both of those southerbarrens dungeons
proper roost
i'm also making these portuguese egg custard tarts
I tried making them last week but they puffed up too much 😔 might be better this time
sick sentinel
did you raise your cooking skill to 100 first?
i have actual question now
do you guys ever combine 2 and 3? 1 is pretty obvious,
vapid wedge
Yes and I normally will pull left side ticks because pugs are untrustworthy.
sick sentinel
ticks is the pepega test
i don't pull them and if they get pulled i know shit is guna go south
they only cause pain and suffering to group and can be totally avoided outside of 1 pack
early warning system if you will
vapid wedge
Tru but I have given up hope of anyone do anything outside of decent so I pull them initially.
sick sentinel
god damnit, sunday aalready
i want to try to get 2 new 16's for IO is possible , would give me 2 441's, bigger/better io
vapid wedge
Plus spamming 16s for aspects this past week to push up 441 > 447
sick sentinel
i need to run 3 more to get first crafted item
and like 25-30 total 16 +s for crafted gear
like 35 runs in total for equipped
vapid wedge
I've got most of my crafted gear squared away for the ring nerfs. Just waiting to spend an unrealistic amount of time in New mega dungeon try to get that mount
twin bramble
do you guys ever combine 2 and 3? 1 is pretty obvious,
No. It’s not really worth it. UR timer is so forgiving. Also, you end up not saving much time because the blood matron is slippery.
I find it best to pull 2 on its own so you can stack the adds with the matron more efficiently. Then pull 3. If you pull 2 plus 3, you have a more difficult pull, plus almost a second pull anyway as your dps kills the matron solo.
proper roost
the matron charges the furthest person, it's not inefficient at all if you dont have someone standing in africa
kind of bad advice; just bcs people play poorly in your pugs doesn't mean it's a bad pull
That's a dangerous pull but not necessarily a bad one, as long as you're apprised of the dangers
Specifically the harrowing darkness from the mask add must be kicked, and double pulling means you have two priests who have 2 priority interrupts each
The hunter/trapper npcs also do a lot of damage with their root in high fort
Also just going back to a previous statement:
pulling the ticks there is always wrong, just because pugs might accidentally doesn't make always pulling them right. In fact that's even more stupid, knowing it's bad to do but intentionally griefing yourself every time, the logic is absolutely nonsense
sick sentinel
ticks do alot of unnessecary somewhat hard to mitigate and avoid dmg
just don't do the mechanic on cragmaw this week, you'll see
proper roost
I've got most of my crafted gear squared away for the ring nerfs. Just waiting t...
m0 has a weekly lockout, so unless you plan to spend an absurd amount of time doing your only clear of the week, then this isn't really possible
Well idk maybe you have like 500 alts.
dusky canopy
Yogi dont combine pull 2 and 3 the people youre pugging with will fail that 9/10 times
that being said
it is efficent to do that yes
dusky canopy
its actually very straight forward yogi you got it man!
dusky canopy
hardest part is boss 2
sick sentinel
i remewmber now why i hated this place so much to begin with
vapid wedge
m0 has a weekly lockout, so unless you plan to spend an absurd amount of time do...
Figure 16 separate mounts and drop rate is very rareish Could be 1.5 hrs to finish it x6 alts
proper roost
more power to you
twin bramble
the matron charges the furthest person, it's not inefficient at all if you dont ...
He was asking about pug. Obviously you can do it with a coordinated group. But every single pug I’ve played has that matron in Africa. Pulling separate let’s you adjust.
He asked how we do it. Not the best way to do it. I shared how I do it in pug and it works well for me every time.
twin bramble
Also just going back to a previous statement:
pulling the ticks there is always...
And yes. Agreed pulling the ticks is always wrong lol
proper roost
i've pugged plenty of groups able to do that double
it's a different story from saying "I have not found it worth it" to "it's not worth it"
twin bramble
Yogi dont combine pull 2 and 3 the people youre pugging with will fail that 9/10...
^
dusky canopy
He's doing 16s eventually trying for 17s
his only concern is holding W one pack at a time
and his groups will succeed
twin bramble
Yup
And running between the first group of ticks. And running between the ticks/pats after the first boss.
proper roost
It's moreso that your complaint about the pack
is kind of clear that you're not really sure why it's difficult to double pull it
Complaining about the matron uptime is like
actually wrong lol
twin bramble
And trying to keep adds around 2nd boss to one bloodswammer
dusky canopy
my 2 cents for boss 2 area is to pull 5 mobs and then stop regardless of what they are
until you get a feel for how much you can handle
twin bramble
Interesting. Must be my play style. I try to just assume pugs will make mistakes and compensate to protect them from themselves.
2 spiders attacking one dps that can’t kite is out of my control 😂
But anyways. Prob just going to come here to ask questions. Any time I’ve tried to contribute and help people in here lately someone has to add some negativity to it. Lol
proper roost
it is a choice to think being corrected is negative
you can choose to improve with the correct information, or not
twin bramble
“Thanks for the feedback, plas. But a different point of view I recommend is… and here’s why”. As opposed to saying “thats bad advice” because your opinion is different (than the other two people who shared their point of view)
proper roost
Has literally nothing to do with an opinion
I explained that pull in detail
It's your choice to be offended about the correction, everyone is wrong sometimes, the test of character is whether you whine about it or not
and you have failed
😔
wooden widget
Kanga has negative interactions with just about everyone. Test failed.
torn gulch
underrot has a couple of things that you need to pay attention to in order to succeed:
- the dungeon can be done by pressing W and having pretty conservative pulls all the way to the early 20's;
- nevel pull ticks;
- greeding dps instead of doing mechanics on second and third boss is a recipe for disaster;
- never pull more than one bloodswarmer in uncoordinated groups;
- pay attention to corruptor tentacle positioning;
- stay properly stacked on last boss to bait the frontal in the correct direction.
there might be other things but these will help in order to do underrot keys as underrot is the easiest key this season
this is a decent way to pull second boss room
crude notch
Listen here idiots
torn gulch
yea sometimes discussion here degenerates into shit flinging for no reason
strong forum
Listen here idiots
Dps section =/= prot
crude notch
Fair fair
I don't go in there though
I heard even bringing up mogging triggers them
pallid quiver
there is definitely some non-zero amount of shit flinging that goes on in here, too, tho
toxic tiger
yoo kind of newbie question, is prot warrior kinda weak dmg wise compared to other tanks?
waxen frigate
not really
in raid it's on the low end i believe but in M+ it should be middle of the pack
strong forum
id say m+ dmg is pretty equal among pretty much all tanks
waxen frigate
disagree
strong forum
assuming top end play
waxen frigate
i dont think bdks are hitting 140k+ bh
strong forum
and regularily averaging 95k overall
issue is just that the vast majority of bdks just plays wrong
waxen frigate
i think most people play wrong in general tbh
strong forum
most do
waxen frigate
lmao
dusky canopy
tbf it is a extreme challenge to execute a classes priority 100% perfectly
but playing a build thats bad well
cant help that
nocturne spindle
Wym just always press shield slam and you can never be wrong
south zealot
issue is just that the vast majority of bdks just plays wrong
everyone plays full tank builds for 0 reason
you just need to play correctly and can use full damage talents
crude notch
Deep Choco. Should get that on a poster.
round pendant
damage > all tbh
speaking of damage, I'm only parsing like an average of 90 this raid 
god I'm not happy about having to replace this ring tho
chilly brook
yeah brew and bear starting next week
What’s changing for brew?
strong forum
brew gets alot of dmg
chilly brook
Damn so I’m gonna go zoomer mode and level my pandaren monk
Or maybe a pandaren dk
toxic pewter
I’m just excited they’re giving some more passive options
dusky canopy
are they making a version of monk where you dont have 25 active abilities?
toxic pewter
Kinda.. there’s like a new passive that can replace weapons of order
And then two more passives for defensive options if you want to try them out
dusky canopy
replaces tiger palm
toxic pewter
Ya
dusky canopy
atleast its 1 filler button gone
proper roost
update on the KSM thing: the organizers forgot to check whether people were OCE or not so like 40% of the groups have one OCE person in there that can't remotely play at the right times @crude notch
dusky canopy
LOL
proper roost
which OCE color is crit
dusky canopy
red?
proper roost
no ruby is def vers, that's what i have on my warrior
i'm gonna hope it's blue
fuck it's green
why the fuck is green crit
crude notch
Because that hit to Ysera in Legion was definitely a crit
crude notch
what
strong forum
why the fuck is green crit
agility / dexterity is often paired with green and also with crit
is that why? no
does it make sense? also no
crude notch
wtf
sick sentinel
i guess thats correct
im just stating that because i use those flasks, i use that weak aura, but i cen see why it would cause confusion
daring marlin
I find the colors for oce sorta weird only cuz some match the buffs in AA but some don't
sick sentinel
https://wago.io/search/ominous%20chromatic%20essence
well, i dont own it so, i don't have the weak aura for it naturally
but one probably already exists
sick sentinel
i'd have to do lfr but okay
daring marlin
With your ilvl just jump into a heroic pug
tanking the raid is super sleeper
just pay attention to bells and whistles
proper roost
this fucking warlock
keeps turning on burning rush
while standing still
and turning it off when moving
sick sentinel
proper roost
this is a low key and i'm so tilted wtf
sick sentinel
i found a new guild, for the time being, the name is fitting
is he doing draing life or whatever when hes low hp
if hes not dying, oh well lol
chilly brook
Kinda.. there’s like a new passive that can replace weapons of order
Which is odd imo because WoO is one of the buttons that feels awesome to press tbh
toxic pewter
To each their own
chilly brook
Well I would have gone for a change to exploding keg or BDB tbh
If I was going to try to cut down on the buttons that is
Or more aptly an alternative to the tiger statue
toxic pewter
Yah anything to cut down the bloat is fine by me
chilly brook
Tiger statue just bleh
toxic pewter
Yeah true not fan of tiger statue
chilly brook
WoO has actual gameplay implications through resetting your keg smash and also giving a damage buff every time you use it
BDB is just another button to press that then sometimes does more damage
crude notch
don't use the statue then
chilly brook
Exploding keg I also don’t find very interesting
crude notch
most don't even play it right
chilly brook
I’m not denying that
proper roost
play dn
chilly brook
I just don’t particularly find a long CD place on ground item that just does some radiating damage an interesting button and a prime candidate for an alternative or replacement if the goal is to reduce bloat
toxic pewter
Yah when I play brew I just don’t feel like playing rjw and tiger statue so I just don’t
proper roost
you mean how two of the three capstones are never taken by any of the specs
that's not bad?
whats ur criteria for not bad
toxic pewter
Tiger statue is taken a lot though
proper roost
not getting punched in the nuts
constantly?
guy is like "oh they didn't spit on my food and literally shit in it, it wasn't bad"
chilly brook
Capstone talents aren’t the whole talent tree….
Please don’t take something I didn’t say and run with it
proper roost
"well the fries were good so even though they pissed in my burger it was good"
sick sentinel
should a 2 hand weapon require 2 enchanted X crest to craft since it also requires 2 sparks?
chilly brook
Aight peace not in the mood for this rn
toxic pewter
Resonating fists is fun
sick sentinel
capstone btw
The pinnacle of gaming software.
tight siren
if i got [395 Seal of Diurna's Chosen] is worth ? or i should use a 441 ring
crude notch
crude notch
if i got [395 Seal of Diurna's Chosen] is worth ? or i should use a 441 ring
definitely 441.
crude notch
proper roost
i'm not 100% sure
tight siren
definitely 441.
thx
proper roost
but i'm like 95% sure it is
crude notch
proper roost
it's so bad that it's not good for all 3 specs
crude notch
proper roost
which is fucking hilarious honestly
proper roost
i'm kind of wracking my brain for what's worse
Oh
the priest class tree is really bad
but it's not that bad for holy, mostly just shadow
not sure about disc
sick sentinel
disc is always needlessly complicated, but it works
proper roost
i think the DK class tree is kinda bad (but DK design in general this xpac is really bad so this might be kind of a low bar)
crude notch
Druid tree is pretty rough but it's biggest issue could be solved with one connection
crude notch
proper roost
poor monks. entirely mia class dev
warm plinth
DH class tree blows.
proper roost
the other complaints about class trees, like all 3 rogue specs taking shadow dance, are also a thing but i don't really think any class gets SO LITTLE POWER and entirely ignores as many capstones as monk
warm plinth
Nope. Wait up
crude notch
Most class trees actually suck, but like monk is definitely worst
proper roost
i've only mostly looked at havoc's spec tree idk about the class tree as much ig
crude notch
LET"S GO
proper roost
still absolutely hog wild that they were just like yeah rop is SUPER fun should make it core to mage for many xpacs
sick sentinel
me as mage, mage discord "u have to take rop"
warm plinth
the other complaints about class trees, like all 3 rogue specs taking shadow dan...
Only outlaw takes shadow dance. Sub takes it in their spec tree and sin doesn't take it at all
sick sentinel
i take it i die, i untalent it for the hand one, red hand its a up to 20% buff
i get yelled at by mage discord for being badw
i quit playing mage
proper roost
oh i honestly did not keep up with assassination at all, all I know is people complain that shadow dance was taken away from sub identity or w/e
warm plinth
It was for sure
It being in the class tree makes zero sense
Same with find weakness
proper roost
which i think is a separate issue from like, monks having 2 capstones that are absolute dog
and all 3 of them (idk about mw in raid ig) taking the damage statue
which like, the damage statue is hella boring too
warm plinth
Eh a lot of specs have ass capstone though. Like warlocks caps are shit too
sick sentinel
i mean, the one DK capstone is completely OMEGALUL as well
crude notch
But is it Jade Statue shit?
proper roost
yeah but it's more like the entire bottom half of the monk tree is extremely boring and bad
it's honestly kind of weird
crude notch
Black Ox Statue and Jade Serpent Statue should literally be baseline for their respective specs.
sick sentinel
crude notch
And while you're at it make the dumb cat one baseline for ww
warm plinth
The mistake they made was deciding that everyone would have at least x amount of talents and since they couldn't come up with them, they just made ahit that should be baseline a talent
sick sentinel
completely useless to 2/3 specs i wanna say
or u have to agressively talent into making it work, and it still sucks i think i read
nocturne spindle
I want real fist weaving back
crude notch
MW is fun af rn wym
warm plinth
Isn't mw like all fistweaving right now?
proper roost
ye since MW keys got buffed i don't think people have really been complaining about mw too much. it's pretty good in raid now too
being in melee pretty mandatory for both mw and hpally, the people wanting a ranged playstyle for them is super weird
like yeah! channeling soothing mists!! no lol
frickin weirdos
sick sentinel
swap summon gargoyle with place of soul reaper and problem solved
proper roost
No yogi
crude notch
Isn't mw like all fistweaving right now?
yeah like 70% of their healing is tied to fistweaving.
proper roost
No
proper roost
people hate garg and how dependent unholy is on it rn lmao
proper roost
crude notch
So when you say you want fistweaving back you don't actually mean that
crude notch
you mean you want MW doing stupid amounts of damage.
nocturne spindle
Yea
crude notch
Which they actually do a good amount of damage
sick sentinel
last i checked you only ever play soul reaper in like, pvp as unholy, or maybe also in raids
i want to say its for arena and raid UH
crude notch
Like there's a strong correlation between good healing MW and good damage dealing MW
which is pog rn
proper roost
disliking soul reaper is entirely separate to whether or not garg would be a good slot
sick sentinel
summon gargoyle isn't even class tree
thats what i mean, i figure summon gargoyle should be main dk tree as capstone
crude notch
why
sick sentinel
cuz, soul reaper is so narrow scope, isnt it?
crude notch
summon gargoyle would be worse
proper roost
not really it's just a delayed execute. it used to be baseline for dk even
idk why i'm saying used to like it wasn't literally originally put in the game as a baseline dk ability
and it was baseline for ages
south zealot
what dumb shit are we talking about now
proper roost
yogi thinks all dk specs should have gargoyle
proper roost
sigh
crude notch
Paladin captstones are good imo.
proper roost
divine toll owns
the best part is divine toll isn't even EQUALLY good for all three specs
all class capstones should aspire to be divine toll
sick sentinel
if you put summon gargoyle in tier 2 first accessible row, and then see 10 million dk's running it, don't be sruprised
crude notch
bruh what
crude notch
Blood would take it purely because it's damage.
urban portal
soul reaper is intended to be pure st
and in a pure st you take whatever sims the best
sick sentinel
yeah, well, what else is worthy of being a capstone activated dk ability
south zealot
yeah blood will just drop rune weapon
crude notch
Actually would unholy even take it LMAO
sick sentinel
it has support in UH
south zealot
Actually would unholy even take it LMAO
ofc you would use the same build
no abom limb but the other two
sick sentinel
not very much
crude notch
This is when I'd like to take the time to remind everyone that druid has to pay the most for their kick and their dispel. (:
But like also imagine being a class that just gets their interrupt baseline (:
proper roost
dude holy shit they really dumped on worm boss huh
wtf
haven't played NL in weeks
and it was like healing fort
sick sentinel
saw bits of it
proper roost
no i kinda want to go in blind
jagged gust
so many swirlies for dps to die on
sick sentinel
not enough to know everything, saw some cool abilities
crude notch
i'll tank it for you uwu
proper roost
you won't even do 20s with my shaman
crude notch
it's not you, it's me.
dusky canopy
it's not me, it's you
toxic pewter
Yeah everyone already knows that
nocturne spindle
I blame nome
daring marlin
no i kinda want to go in blind
🤝
proper roost
i mean as dps
i just figure
dont stand in the bad shit
kill adds
kick things
usually turns out ok
crude notch
saj
proper roost
yo if you do dargrul four times in a row you pad healer damage giga on it because of the add
pog
healing a good pwar is kinda pog
barely had to heal them
warm plinth
I'd like to heal you, if you know what I mean
sick sentinel
is it vital to wait for 0 seconds on lust debuff so it fades and you can instantly lust on cragmaw
after doing trash, but you've killed all the extra trash
we had like, 40 seconds left on debuff, and i figure, ah, it'll be okay, nope, pulled cragmaw regardless, we lusted, wiped
nocturne spindle
It should be fine
mighty valley
that's a lot of timer to burn for no reason
probably just wait on lust until after first tantrum in that case
nocturne spindle
Healer just uses CDs earlier and lust to push through later
warm plinth
If your lust isn't up yet you just kill the third boss first
Then go back to Cragmaw
warm plinth
So you killed the third boss, and you still didn't have lust? 🤔
sick sentinel
we cleared up to that
warm plinth
You just kill the boss then
nocturne spindle
I mean isn't worm boi the more healer intense boss
warm plinth
You don't have lust for the third boss anyway. So you just kill him, then go back to Cragmaw
sick sentinel
turned back 2nd woudl have immediately gone to 3rd
nocturne spindle
Cragmaw never seemed like a lot of group damage goes out if you do it well
mighty valley
at this key level, if you're clearing too fast to do good lust timings, then you probably overgear and i would just stop overthinking it
warm plinth
Cragmaw is literally a tick squish simulator
sick sentinel
cragmaw goes to hell for me on the second and after enrage
too many ticks get out of controil
mighty valley
in bad pugs where no one's paying attention to ticks, lust there is likely smart to squeak by before you get overwhelmed
sick sentinel
pug strategy seems to be nuke it from orbit on pull with lust so much that it only does 1 enrage
you wouldn't skip lust on first boss would you? we did lust on first boss in that key
warm plinth
You would never skip lust. But on fortified it's better to lust a big first pull because 1st boss doesn't do anything
mighty valley
sometimes it's best to do a big pull and lust at the very start
first boss is not scary
warm plinth
I lust boss on tyr just because tyr but it's more because 1st pack melts anyway
sick sentinel
first pull of UR giga pull is only problme if people dont kick undying whatever
warm plinth
undying?
sick sentinel
yeah, stops shit from dying
sick sentinel
i just normally aim to always kick that
warm plinth
Dark Reconstitution is the priority cast because it full heals whatever mob the priest targets with it
sick sentinel
yeah both of those, there is only like, 2 or 3 of those mobs total you fight and they can be stunned
winged sage
Tried to do bombs on zskarn mythic as VDH, fucking paaaaain.. prot warrior felt so much better with having cd's and IP rolling
warm plinth
Yeah I imagine it's quite rough for VDH and BDK since they're both self healing specs
Plus it's environmental damage so you don't even get DR on it from Brand
winged sage
Exactly
vdh's only def is meta and last resort, other than that I had to have externals for every bomb
warm plinth
Gross
proper roost
who else do you have tanking? very weird decision to have vdh do it
and yeah bdk just lacks the movespeed to do bombs effectively
dusky canopy
hes prob a havoc who has to offspec if i were to guess
warm plinth
On heroic you can basically have the same tank do every set of bombs though; is that not an option for mythic?
So if his co-tank is better suited, theoretically he would do them instead
proper roost
yeh but i mean
if he's havoc and has to offspec
just have him tank boss lol
if you really want to 3 tank
winged sage
hes prob a havoc who has to offspec if i were to guess
Actually dps warr that has to off-specc 🙂
We were missing dhs for the first couple of pulls
proper roost
maybe it's like pwar bdk..
winged sage
yupp, I objected early
winged sage
Unfortunately can't have me tank the boss and learn the movement, as i'm having my first kid any day now, so they need to learn it 😛
proper roost
well i mean it's understandable for chaos brand
that's a pretty significant raid dps loss to not have
i would just, idk, have the vdh tank and one of the current tanks soak
it's not complicated to learn zskarn positioning/movement
mighty valley
that's too many shield gamers
dry folio
is it reasonable for tanks to get the sark back with the missing stamina ?
proper roost
this is only a fucking 21 💀 we don't need to do this
dry folio
our tank uses it on rashok and he is squishy af
mighty valley
it's not a crazy amount of missing stam so there's probably something else going on if he's constantly in danger
warm plinth
He's squishy because he's doing something wrong, not because he's using a cloak with no stamina
crude notch
that cloak isn't why your tank is squishy
ye
the cloak doesn't increase your damage taken
warm plinth
the tank just linked this
how the fuck do you even do that first pull
lime urchin
That first pull is pretty comon, no?
warm plinth
wat? How?
lime urchin
Expect the mini-boss, that guy isn’t always there in time
I think that’s the mini boss
warm plinth
You realize they're pulling a pack on the left side
And then dragging it alllll the way to the right
lime urchin
Oh wait nvm
crude notch
🖍️ 😋
lime urchin
Whoopsies did not see that 😂
warm plinth
Also it's kinda unrealistic to assume you're not pulling the patrol on the left side
(I'm speaking of like in the dungeon left, not on the screenshot left)
daring marlin
meh
crude notch
the dam one could pull with that pull
17 mobs and guilford goes, meh.
You're almost to natty cap
pulling much higher would actually be int'ing
mighty valley
guilford's pulling that onto magmatusk clearly
daring marlin
I had a tank do it, just cheesed with chain
neltharus sucks now with all the chain cheese
Worse than TD cannons
crude notch
daring marlin
big stinker dungeon
lusty grotto
that dungeon would be fucking ridiculously long if not for them
dusky canopy
so am i seeing that is how much damage they do?
lusty grotto
now its tolerable
dusky canopy
like overall for a key
lusty grotto
i think the real problem is they designed the timer around the chains
that's the thing that fucking sucks
mighty valley
the concept is fine the tuning is just wild
daring marlin
Oh my GOD, Nim. WE GET IT
lusty grotto
so everyone is required to do it, or else you get fucked
mighty valley
just reduce mob health and reduce chain damage
and you're less reliant on a gimmick
dusky canopy
that kinda thing is cool if timer isnt designed around it
but then its too easy
so idk
rather just not have that stuff
imo
mighty valley
remember early necrotic wake
mighty valley
where a single death of someone holding a weapon would brick a key lol
crude notch
guilford been real cranky lately
waxen frigate
where a single death of someone holding a weapon would brick a key lol
Those were the days
I miss rogues being able to get guaranteed crits with the spear
empty inlet
https://twitter.com/Sense_Warr/status/1678083605384548352
the fact that you can use cannon on siege on the last boss saves you giga time
waxen frigate
And just one shot the entire upstairs
waxen frigate
https://twitter.com/Sense_Warr/status/1678083605384548352
Ok now do it for freehold canon tech 😏
empty inlet
would say siege is worse than neltharius
warm plinth
You can't use the spotter on the last boss of Siege
empty inlet
yes you can
daring marlin
remember early necrotic wake
Remember pulling all the trash into first boss and spearing it all?
warm plinth
They fixed that like...not even that far into the expansion
daring marlin
God I hope that dungeon never comes back
lusty grotto
yeah i remember them fixing it
empty inlet
worked in some seasons of bfa
warm plinth
Yeah it worked in like, S1, and maybe some of S2
mighty valley
the plaguefall bombs and slimes were the gimmick that lasted the longest i guess
lusty grotto
the only thing that beats nelth there is siege bolstering weeks which Sense didnt put in as noted by his comment
and even then
warm plinth
Tol Dagor was a lot more egregious before they capped the shots
sick sentinel
if there is tol dagor im going to climb to the top of the tower and jump off
lusty grotto
yeah non capped TD was big
lusty grotto
HEY GUILFORD IF TD COMES BACK I HOPE EVERY EVOKER YOU GET DOES DEEP BREATH TO PULL THE ENTIRE THING
warm plinth
Honestly though, without the chains, that dungeon would need a timer adjustment
lusty grotto
SMH
friendly neighborhood havok eye beaming into the wall
friendly neighbor ret pala divine storming into the wall
sick sentinel
daring marlin
Nothing will top laser matrix pulling everything in wcm/td
sick sentinel
AAA WWOOOOOOO
sick sentinel
fear
lusty grotto
holy shit i hated that shit
the only thing i liked about TD was the first giga pull
that was pretty good
ngl
sick sentinel
its a very good dungeon if the goal is to get angry
empty inlet
ye the pull that the forst mage solod
empty inlet
💀
sick sentinel
its an extremely techinical dungeo for mechanics
crude notch
hmm
lusty grotto
idk sanguine TD was also fucking hell
warm plinth
the only thing i liked about TD was the first giga pull
I had a VDH tank so first pull of TD was pretty weak most of the time
sick sentinel
the pindown on that fight i just linked was really gross too
warm plinth
And if he didn't get TD procs he wasn't holding aggro off me
hardy snow
I would like to see stockade in M+ 
lusty grotto
i hate you guilford, ptsd'ing me like this
daring marlin
i hate you guilford, ptsd'ing me like this
I aim to please
sick sentinel
is a very traditional dungeon, bricks, metal gates, probably a jail who knows, its in a ritzy city...
warm plinth
Idk Stockades would be a very meh M+ dungeon
warm plinth
There's no chance they make it even remotely the length of an M+ dungeon without completely revamping it
mighty valley
even with a huge mob rework stockades would become the new maw of souls times a billion
people just hunting stockades keys to get their vaults filled for the week in one hour
daring marlin
I look forward to KR return
And the tears due to the trash bleed
and zul
and dps not moving away from raptors
sick sentinel
wod train dungeon was a good keystone
warm plinth
I actually enjoyed both of the WoD dungeons they've done thus far
daring marlin
The golems were a big tank check too
warm plinth
Yeah, and Mchimba hit like a fucking mack truck
warm plinth
Good dungeon though tbh. Just needs some adjusting on Zul and 1st boss mostly
I am sad I won't be able to play havoc and cheese everything for the tank though
proper roost
ok well that route was goated
we died 12 times and 3 manned chargath and we still +2d it
warm plinth
Yeah I have a video somewhere of me and my tank doing like 80% of the last boss w/ just the two of us on like a 16 tyrannical
VDH and havoc
warm plinth
how did you 3-man chargath 👀
daring marlin
skill
proper roost
idk the priest and ele sham just kept running into the fucking circle like baboons
daring marlin
healed through dot
warm plinth
Wait what level key was this
daring marlin
Prolly 20
warm plinth
oh
lusty grotto
to be fair, TD was the first time i found out about "ye olde Rogue skip see invis with blind and vanish" trick
daring marlin
close enough
lusty grotto
just have rogue blind, stand in hitbox, everyone crosses, vanish and mob doesnt agro anyone
daring marlin
With proper chain usage you can body that dungeon
lusty grotto
so at the very least TD taught me something
proper roost
the starting pull was like, kinda normal though, i think the tank just didn't trust me (valid, i died on it because of a frontal)
warm plinth
Yeah that works with like every CC
proper roost
he sigiled the far pack then leaped over to the chains
warm plinth
But not everyone has a combat drop
lusty grotto
ye ghash
chrome falcon
fuck i got the neltharion shield but now i have to re-embellish something else
proper roost
ezpz honestly could do it in a pug
warm plinth
dying to frontal as a healer smh my head
proper roost
except the spriest had to mass dispel correctly every time
the overall dps for that key
actually a joke lmao
lusty grotto
Best havoc cheese was last boss of td
blade dance the shot? which only 2% did
lusty grotto
true
lusty grotto
i wish Havoc got some love, fucking momentum blows dick
warm plinth
Yeah idk how anyone likes having fel rush as part of the rotation
proper roost
boost me @daring marlin
lusty grotto
1st vp boss and momentum builds be like
warm plinth
But it's quite popular somehow
proper roost
i've regained the desire to do keyge on my shaman
lusty grotto
speaking of which
proper roost
idk why I feared tyrannical this is easy af
lusty grotto
entangling + first NL boss basically requires a dumb ret
warm plinth
Does it?
lusty grotto
or holding back avatar
proper roost
naw dude just don't panic
lusty grotto
for overlaps
warm plinth
What overlaps
proper roost
entangling lasts a lot longer than you fear it does
lusty grotto
frontal + crystals
warm plinth
You have like 4 seconds to move out of the frontal
proper roost
you can live inside an entangling for a long time
lusty grotto
not if you have entangling
proper roost
it's not that bad of a slow lol
also what else are you using leap on
i always use leap for the frontal
warm plinth
Why would you get caught though
lusty grotto
get fucked
warm plinth
Just move
lusty grotto
i moved on a 22 a few weeks ago and just dropped dead
and it wasnt with entangling
so overlaps ive been walling and eating frontal
warm plinth
🤔 You should not die from moving as the tank.
lusty grotto
but this week with entangling that might be rough
i dont recall the damage i was taking, but it was high
warm plinth
You still shouldn't move more than necessary but it shouldn't kill you
lusty grotto
let me see maybe i have a log
cause it was one of those things that i just had to check
warm plinth
This is my paladin moving on a +20 tyrannical
proper roost
oh god that's so many ticks
crude notch
i moved on a 22 a few weeks ago and just dropped dead
they've also nerfed crystalline ground since this
lusty grotto
i mean 150k per tick is high damage
warm plinth
Where did I take 150k in that screenshot though
lusty grotto
before mit
warm plinth
I didn't take that damage though so why would I be going off that damage 🤔
daring marlin
Druids barf
lusty grotto
so that might be rough for them idk
warm plinth
Yeah this was pre-nerf as well. This was May 28th
daring marlin
I want all my pugs to be MW
warm plinth
The biggest issue with the ground is honestly the bullshit double hit
lusty grotto
time to go hard then
crude notch
3p PT
jolly crystal
lmao maintenance ends when my movie starts on tuesday
Wednesday is a public holiday in Northern Ireland, I like to think it's because it's patch day 😄
lusty grotto
ah fuck, one of those days i only play for an hour before ffxiv raid
daring marlin
Prolly be up sooner than that
crude notch
