OH
#protection
lusty grotto
zuania
daring marlin
a dh
lusty grotto
lol yea
daring marlin
south zealot
i wish i pusher harder 
lower karazhan being so insanely overtuned killed my mood to push lol
lusty grotto
s1 was a blur
was doing an NL
so anyway i remember
s1 was when my friends told me that i should swap to DH
and i was like no
so it was a constant dicussion, but i was already on my way out so i said fuck it
they have dropped hints for me to tank on pally or to get zuania up again, but i shoot em down
i just cant do it
proper roost
vdh is fun
lusty grotto
plus reprisal was really fucking rough on s1, so i naturally didnt like it... when i came back in s4 that changed
yeah i like vdh, ive always said it
kinda my 2nd fave tank but
proper roost
i think if AS procs generated holy power i'd be hunky dory but i kind of hate that it doesnt
lusty grotto
i just dont have time
sick sentinel
gunna attempt a few more runs at champion marks
it sucks, but 13 is the best level keytstone cuz dont get sanguine im finding
lusty grotto
lmao
proper roost
10.1.5 gutting hybrid AG/VE is going to have very interesting implications
lusty grotto
speaking of, i need a nelth on my pally
proper roost
I could see a world where they aura buff healers because of it
lusty grotto
yeah im actually curious about that
sick sentinel
what the hell is hybrid AG VE
proper roost
rsham keeps getting incremental key buffs
lusty grotto
vamp embrace
proper roost
🙏
sick sentinel
oh, i dunno what ag is then
lusty grotto
its generally just hybrid healing spells
ancestral guidance? idk
i dont know a lot of about shamans
that should be it
party wide heals/mit
here we go...
proper roost
what the fuck is that
south zealot
why would u ever lose one handed weapon spec
lusty grotto
not even gonna ask
i just wanna finish this key, people quit out of nothing lol
i would say im helping them
lusty grotto
oh they dc
lusty grotto
just trying to run a 19 cause i dont really care about vault 20s
at least pally has 2 slots
just want to finish the 3rd with whatever
and then fuck the pally until tuesday
oh yikes that hunter was 444
wtf
lusty grotto
ngl i see better people in 19s than 20s as of late
oh another prot warrior
let me check
ok ok decent talents
but whats this
ocean yoke
ill be honest i dont even know what trinkets those are idk if ive ever seen them
ocean yoke
crude notch
Dude just trying to get a weekly key in and you putting him on blast
Poor foro
Don't let the boomers get you down
Play in a couple hours when it's past grandpa nims bedtime
lusty grotto
crude notch
He gets a pass either way
lusty grotto
yeah he has good talents
south zealot
reminds me of the dk i saw with stam vers gems
lusty grotto
cmon jordan im not harassing him
sick sentinel
if im not guna get beacon/anvil likely, is mark a wild goose chase?
i don't see my self getting raid trinkets most likely
lusty grotto
no, its not a wild goose chase, it slaps
warm plinth
The crit rating isn't relevant. The effect is why the trinket is strong
hallow phoenix
5-7% overall damage landslide 
crude notch
Well it wasn't damage that depleted an 18.
lusty grotto
yeah
could have been timeable, not their fault at all
dps just dropped dead in a lot of stuff so
it is what it is
war did good
i only mentioned pulling bigger cause he pulled the 2 wardens solo, then pulled left side first pack with the eles solo
after i said that though, was pulling like a big boy
he*
warm plinth
Did you guys do any chain pulls?
lusty grotto
we did
after elephant
ngl this is one of the better pugs ive been in today
even if it wasnt timed
if not the best
lusty grotto
that underrot earlier was just fucking aids
lusty grotto
You're the best
no u
warm plinth
Man I'm at the point where I'm gonna start avoiding underrot
Pug UR are fucking terrible
crude notch
I don't touch it on tyrannical.
warm plinth
I have no idea how people still don't know how to do the bosses in that dungeon, or even dodge savage cleave
sick sentinel
Man I'm at the point where I'm gonna start avoiding underrot
undersuck
lusty grotto
the only thing that gets me are bodypulls
well and the run today
and of course running from intervene on fixates
you know what
youre right
warm plinth
Body pulls, not squishing ticks, baiting last boss in random directions
smoky ingot
Hey! Prospective warrior here - generally looking for a tank spec to play in m+. Is prot really as bad as everone is saying?
crude notch
Who's everyone?
lusty grotto
tier lists?
yikes
warrior is good for everything except mythic zskarn
thats about it
smoky ingot
I mean how else am i supposed to get a grasp on whats good
Had to go to like page 50 of the leaderboard to even find a prot war
I do think they look the most appealing though, so kind of torn
lusty grotto
as long as you understand that mdi level players have finite amount of time
and cant take every single tank to 3.3k io
they are human just like us
smoky ingot
Im 3k on my mage and i dont think ive seen a prot war for ages either
lusty grotto
leaderboards shouldn't be representational, but i get what youre saying
smoky ingot
Nor brew
lusty grotto
seeing as i havent tanked on other classes since SL s1
smoky ingot
Old man now, so i pivoted to pve xd
warm plinth
How old is old man
smoky ingot
30 lul
lusty grotto
im not sure where i would rank warrior for a first time tank
warm plinth
Bruh 😭
lusty grotto
jesus were ancient then
warm plinth
War is one of the easier ones if you can read a guide
smoky ingot
Haha i was just kidding. I have a running joke with my friends that wow is where old gamers go to die, lol
warm plinth
I'm gonna be 35 next month
smoky ingot
Can sit and talk about the good old days of ventrillo and the prime days of wow 😂
lusty grotto
id say vdh is one of the harder ones right now cause people just drop dead since they dont understand vdh mitigation, but that's just my perception when i play alts
warm plinth
Brew and vdh are definitely my bottom two
lusty grotto
oh yeah brew definitely
warm plinth
For ease of access to new tanks
smoky ingot
I like something complex, but it has to be rewarding
lusty grotto
just because its easier to pick up doesnt mean it lacks complexity
warm plinth
Anyway to answer your original question, prot war is good. It's just not the best
mighty valley
paladin basics are simple, but you have a lot of targeted utility spells you should be using to maximize
warm plinth
So in wow language it's trash ofc
smoky ingot
Do you guys think a lot about party comp when you invite for 23+ keys? When i pug 90% of the time my mage is invited to a vdh and sp group xD
Feels like war and the phys meta is out of favor
warm plinth
Only to the point of what is needed for the dungeon
lusty grotto
i wouldnt say its phys meta etc
smoky ingot
Mage vdh and sp have almost all the tools you need though
lusty grotto
its more like pick up the classes that have off healing
daring marlin
Man I'm at the point where I'm gonna start avoiding underrot
place is terrible
smoky ingot
True that is the easy way of dealing with it.
But you can still play your way out of it if not pushing leadeeboard
Anyway. Looking at the war kit they have little utility outside of some aoe cc and then they want a phys group mostly i imagine.
Seems like a rough spot currently
mighty valley
it's funny that we were considered S+ tier overpowered busted early last season with the exact same toolkit
it's never really "utility"
smoky ingot
Damage though, right?
lusty grotto
rally and intervene are solid utility picks, they are just not as good as prot pally utility
in terms of quantity
but intervene is actually better than BoP in some cases
smoky ingot
If you have no utility you absolutely have to be doing some good damage
lusty grotto
since its 30s cd vs 3 mins
smoky ingot
Bop is still phys immunity, right?
lusty grotto
but again it doesnt matter cause you cant compete with the sheer amount of abilities prot pallies have
mighty valley
i haven't checked in on prot warrior damage since the buffs
been doing old man stuff like buying a house
smoky ingot
been doing old man stuff like buying a house
Rofl my hypothesis is proving true 👍
smoky ingot
same as intervene
Intervene is immunity now?
mighty valley
oh yeah, wow is definitely an old person game, and prot warrior is an old person spec
mighty valley
yeah, for stuff attached to melee attacks, it might as well be immunity
lusty grotto
first BH boss jump for example
lusty grotto
the problem is people dont actually fucking know, and run away
smoky ingot
Cant move the entire pull either?
lusty grotto
and its a 10yard range from the warrior
lusty grotto
so if little timmy gets fixated by Fenrir in S1, and you intervene, and he decides to fucking kite to africa away from you, hes fucked
smoky ingot
Lol
mighty valley
ranged should hang out near melee unless there's specific reasons not to
smoky ingot
Cloth users are scared of melee
mighty valley
dunno why they're always like "i HAVE to be way over here, dangerously close to pulling this pat for no reason"
lusty grotto
you mean away from chain heals and/or evoker heals
lusty grotto
making them effectively annoyed
theres a reason every single ranged plays close on big keys
smoky ingot
I feel like choosing based on fotm is also a mistake. Lets say i pick vdh and their season 3 set is ass, then they suddenly become bottom of the barrel again as their dps is their biggest asset.
But then why choose anything but pala, lol
If utility is the only constant
lusty grotto
yeah who knows what theyre gonna do with VDH and Surv once this tier is done
their tier sets add so much
mighty valley
just pick based on vibes
always correct
paladin's movement ability is getting on a silly horse
i will not abide it
smoky ingot
Indeed. Id rather stoop to healing
lusty grotto
lol jokes aside, paladin is a solid pick
smoky ingot
Which says a lot for me
lusty grotto
trying to be as unbiased as possible
it wont be the perfect FH tank (thats us) but there's other dungeons
bear is also a solid pick
smoky ingot
Bear is a furry
lusty grotto
since they are gonna do very well after patch, and are doing very well right now
smoky ingot
Cant do that
lusty grotto
and are not that difficult to pick up
smoky ingot
Its vdh war or brew
lusty grotto
like i said before i wouldnt recommend vdh/brew for first time tanks
mighty valley
gonna get your cables cut if you talk shit
smoky ingot
They dont even need artists to draw their porn anymore with unstable diffusion. Theyre unstoppable
Thats fair. I actually really dont mind the steep learning curve though.
Its silly but i really like having options if i need a break from tanking and ww or havoc absolutely have no appeal to me
lusty grotto
fair, just again dont mistake "easy" or "hard" to pick up for complexity
all tanks have decent amounts of complexity
smoky ingot
Fury on the other hand goes hard
smoky ingot
Really?
lusty grotto
yea
lusty grotto
well brew is an exception
i guess it just needs work
clunky, is the word
its not complex for complexity's sake
idk
smoky ingot
Hm. I see a lot of that go around. Was looking at rogue as well but apparently they are getting a rework too xD
lusty grotto
its just because blizzard decided to not actually look into what brew needs to press to be effective
smoky ingot
I guess that takes it off the table then.
mighty valley
all the monk specs are bizarre
smoky ingot
I like being rewarded for good use of a complex kit
mighty valley
feel like all monk specs were based on concepts that didn't really pan out and they've just kinda drifted and patched holes since then
lusty grotto
i hope blizzard decides to check them out for the next rework iteration ngl
smoky ingot
Anyway thanks for the advice - gonna hit the hay 🙂
sick sentinel
i got my 8 dungeons done, but they are shitter ones
working on forcing out mark
damn, +3'd 14 lair lol
crude notch
@proper roost
hello embed
y'know what
idgaf anymore
anyways
that's what the tweets allude to
warm plinth
About time they improved the visual of the orbs on emberon
lusty grotto
holy fuck these nerfs
warm plinth
No more vileshard crawler pool of death
warm plinth
lul
lusty grotto
are these live?
crude notch
Now you can bring a lock and have it dispel one
proper roost
https://www.wowhead.com/news/patch-10-1-mythic-tuning-hotfixes-massive-boss-nerf...
holy fuck
yay 3k is free now
sick sentinel
we have decided that lair is not free enough so it is now even more free
blizzard
south zealot
yay 3k is free now
3k is always free
south zealot
spell reflect down sadge
crude notch
3k is always free
depends on your definition of free but based on your comments in here recently, it's not free for you
south zealot
?
south zealot
link raider io
crude notch
Ignore the Tater Kanga
proper roost
Man giga motivated to do keys now actually
sick sentinel
i knew neltharus was getting the giga nerf
urban portal
we have decided that lair is not free enough so it is now even more free
lair is was definitely not easy in higher keys
proper roost
that uldaman boss legit terrorized me
sick sentinel
easy if you have a group with brains
proper roost
I did like an 18 tyr where the tank never interrupted a knock and i just felt entirely fucking helpless
sick sentinel
i cant speak about 25's im imagining its super easy peasy on 20 if i applied my self tho
crude notch
easy if you have a group with brains
Yogi, tell me you've never healed a NL without telling me you've never healed a NL.
south zealot
link raiderio pussy
sick sentinel
the only time i was ever a healer was in 2004 wow
and i made him ret and prot anyway
i had a priest alt but, i've never been adept at healing
the problem, the main problem is that, i personally die
i heal the player bars and then i don't do mechanics or whaterver and die
while not healing self
south zealot
i stopped soing keys when i got it
sick sentinel
why the hell would i want to play a healer anyway
proper roost
cope
south zealot
yeah definitelt cope
proper roost
definitelt
sick sentinel
if i ever get mark im gunna go slam 16s
just be nice to have that as an option to equip
proper roost
the funny thing is that watcher irideus nerf kinda does almost nothing for high keys
Or actually nothing rather
so hoi still gonna be hardest key
Good that they didnt nerf khajin or altairus
gonna be... interesting with zero hybrid help
maiden ravine
Altairus was already mostly okay if people could understand upwind/downwind
Apparently my "Make the boss smell you" doesn't help
crude notch
link raiderio pussy
calm down andrew tate jr
south zealot
?
proper roost
Altairus was already mostly okay if people could understand upwind/downwind
Its the hardest check of the instance on high tyr
since they nerfed stars a lot
maiden ravine
I guess it's one of those things that scales really fast then
proper roost
By a pretty significant margin
Yes lol
Healers have to do like 150k+ sustained on altairus as soon as 22 and most bosses you live comfortably at 50k
proper roost
most of the healers don't really scale that well with the haste
Also since it's basically a mana check fight like khajin, getting a negative hpm stat is kinda irrelevant?
Its prob a free tyr key if you just p2w it now though
sick sentinel
i quit healing in 2004 cuz my fuckin holy light paladin spell, would get push back cuz id be getting attacked by scarlet monastary mobs, ppl'd die
wont heal anything beyond a heroic now
urban portal
i cant speak about 25's im imagining its super easy peasy on 20 if i applied my ...
then why do you not have one timed
sick sentinel
some day
maiden ravine
Altairus is a very consistent damage which is easier to heal
you had healers doing 150k sustained on second boss of TJS last season
the knock up is probably an issue for some healers
proper roost
I'm just saying thats at a 22 which is a low key now (for the purposes of pushing)
On a 24 tyr earlier in the season prevoker did 176k on khajin with like 50k of offhealing
it scales very hard
sick sentinel
augmentation cant target healers to make them better healers right
south zealot
wtf is khajin
sick sentinel
im not sure how all this dragon shit really works im not a dragon am a warrior
maiden ravine
augmentation cant target healers to make them better healers right
in 5 mans everyone gets buffed regardless so in keys healers will have 14% more int, 5% more hp, and possibly 6% bonus healing depending on avoker talents
prot warriors are gonna have 14% more str +300 from blistering scales armor
crude notch
augvoker gonna be the sauce for super high keys
It's gonna feel so bad playing an augvoker with a bunch of baddies in a pug though
sick sentinel
aug, pwar, any priest cuz pi, enhance shaman and..... X fill.....
maiden ravine
I know warrior likely won't care at all about 3k more armor
sick sentinel
lets go
maiden ravine
outside of the strength benefit
sick sentinel
if i get 3k more armor, okay, cool, if not, whatever
crude notch
kyle are you an augvoker main
lusty grotto
It's gonna feel so bad playing an augvoker with a bunch of baddies in a pug thou...
this is how bards/dancers feel in ffxiv
so its 100% gonna happen
crude notch
I swear to god dropping ffxiv references has become the new "I'm vegan"
lusty grotto
I swear to god dropping ffxiv references has become the new "I'm vegan"
Did you know that the critically acclaimed MMORPG Final Fantasy XIV has a free trial, and includes the entirety of A Realm Reborn AND the award-winning Heavensward expansion up to level 60 with no restrictions on playtime? Sign up, and enjoy Eorzea today!
crude notch
lmao
lusty grotto
no but for real
maiden ravine
kyle are you an augvoker main
I'm an evoker main, I'll definitely be trying avoker, but I play prevoker mostly.
lusty grotto
playing those jobs feels fucking awful with bad dps
because their parses depend on how much dps the group gains
so we will see how warcraftlogs and details handle it
kinda curious
maiden ravine
If avoker goes live with it's current tuning it likely won't matter, even non-ideal situations they're way ahead of all other dps
lusty grotto
since wcl and fflogs are the same people they will most likely have a similar approach
crude notch
I'm an avoker main
maiden ravine
Blizzard has put a ton of special hooks in the combat log that basically calculates the avoker buff damage as it goes along.
maiden ravine
So they don't even need to do the same stuff as fflogs
they just need to pull the numbers out
lusty grotto
Blizzard has put a ton of special hooks in the combat log that basically calcula...
yeah, i read about that, logs will be way more detailed than fflogs
proper roost
black dragonflight tank evoker when.
maiden ravine
black dragonflight tank evoker when.
never, earth tank belongs to shaman.
sick sentinel
like, dragon already also has blood lust, remove bleed, and carry player forwards
so they bring on par with paladin amounts of buffs now
crude notch
hmm
proper roost
really funny yogi take
lusty grotto
pls notice me senpai avoker
maiden ravine
I wonder how avoker's black attunement and rally stack if they do at all
sick sentinel
im happy for them, im just also not a dragon
maiden ravine
granted rally is raid wide and Black Attunement is only the evoker and the 4 closest allies
but it's 20% hp for 15s or so every 90s
sick sentinel
victory rush goes yeet
this can be done on UR ticks or NL dunno the name but second pull of dungeon the small fuckers that just got nerfed
victory rush, kiill another tiny guy, VR >kill another>VR> repeat
toxic pewter
Do you think it will be against tos to be augmentation evoker and put that threat reducing ability on the tank a lot
It is right
Asking for a friend
maiden ravine
probably is griefing a bit, could do it as a joke in a premade but not if the tank asks you to stop
crude notch
Why have a mage when you already have shroud
toxic pewter
Lol
sick sentinel
cuz, wizard boy
proper roost
rogue doesn't actually seem as good as it used to in previous seasons
i mean soothe enables a lot of the skips that you used to want shroud for
it's kinda wild that youc an just soothe skip like 90% of the back half of brackenhide
sick sentinel
i still stand by making the rogue trade a bottle thingy pvp tawlent copy healthstone soulwell
usable pve m+, same effect you just chose to have or consume one or th eother,same cd
warm plinth
I'm gonna go visit yogi in Canada
Should be easy to find him now that I know his name
lusty grotto
this can be done on UR ticks or NL dunno the name but second pull of dungeon the...
i was just saying in terms of HP buffs like rallying + avoker
maiden ravine
Just wait for the wowhead guide Jordan, likely better than what I'd do.
lusty grotto
since victory rush is hp based
toxic pewter
If I was a rogue I’d be pissed they stole my cool shroud and gave to blue lusting spec with arcane int
maiden ravine
Saeldur is doing the icy veins guide so that'll be good
crude notch
Who's Saeldur
sick sentinel
well, i am a loner, so
maiden ravine
Lol
proper roost
i forcibly ejected the knowledge of yogi's name from my mind
maiden ravine
They play spriest and warlock, I doubt they'd slum it in a magic less class
proper roost
it was a burden i wasn't strong enough to carry
crude notch
Yo they can make Quell 20 second cd pog
god do i want to play a spec that like can't sim at all?
proper roost
that's the best part, everyone's gonna really suck at it at the start
maiden ravine
You can sim it. Raidbots is working on adding it to their stuff
crude notch
god i love nerds
maiden ravine
Hard part is it requires simming multiple dps along side you
proper roost
😳
crude notch
@toxic pewter you got your answer right here
toxic pewter
<@185160009074737153> you got your answer right here
Damn that’s awful news
maiden ravine
And it's really hard to suck at avoker. Keep your buffs up on CD and you're at 90% effectiveness
maiden ravine
It's a holiday weekend.
toxic pewter
Friday night everyone is out living it up right
maiden ravine
Let people have fun, come back after the patch
proper roost
Why aren't they spending their free time having a fun video game
crude notch
Kyle will this stack
proper roost
playing a fun video game*
crude notch
with other AS reductions?
crude notch
oh wait there's
there's no one
Well you're searching for only 21s and 22s.
proper roost
that's the ones I need!!!
maiden ravine
I don't know if anyone's tested. I don't think it's being taken over the shield
daring marlin
time to do keys
crude notch
what's the cd of breath of eons
2 minutes
maiden ravine
Breath is a 2 minute CD
proper roost
oh that sucks
toxic pewter
Replaces deep breath if I recall correctly
proper roost
Sadge
maiden ravine
There's some CDR you can take but it's not drastic
crude notch
I'll aug you bb
daring marlin
no jordan is doing it with ME
toxic pewter
Does blistering scales give any dr or anything for tank
proper roost
wtf!!
toxic pewter
Oh increases armor that’s nice
crude notch
based on the avoker's armor
so my idea is bunk
that'd be so broken for bear
what's this 11.2 seconds shit kyle
Breath of Eons is 11.2 seconds, Spatial Paradox is 11.2 seconds.
daring marlin
hmmm
21 vp on warrior and...
21 uldaman on pally lmao
I wanna do neltharus to see how much of a meme it is
warm plinth
Commander health nerf is big pog; he was already free count
sick sentinel
lair is currently in running most ez key tied for second with ur with fh clearly in the leadv
heavioy contended 2nd place there with the new nerfs
maiden ravine
Breath of Eons is 11.2 seconds, Spatial Paradox is 11.2 seconds.
Avoker mastery increases the duration of their buffs
crude notch
Are all the affixes going to become augvoker's job?
toxic pewter
Augmentation evokers will get that bleed removal talent too right
crude notch
ye
toxic pewter
That’s pretty good
sick sentinel
its the first expansion about them so they will be overpowered for awhile
crude notch
except no one said anything about that yogi
toxic pewter
Is the spec looking to be very button bloated or more mild
oblique garnet
Easier than bm
toxic pewter
Nice
sick sentinel
only complaint about bm is to put it short, a hunter
oblique garnet
Idk if thats true but if you base it off the other evoker specs its accurate
sick sentinel
still cant figure out how i 3 chested that 14 tonight, neec to do that more or better keys
valid finch
hey guys with my first enchanted wyrm should i craft shield before weapon or weapon first?
toxic pewter
still cant figure out how i 3 chested that 14 tonight, neec to do that more or b...
Means you are ready to do 17s
south zealot
hey guys with my first enchanted wyrm should i craft shield before weapon or wea...
shield
valid finch
so if im understanding the wowhead guide run unstable frostfire belt & a shadowflame as the 2 embellishments
uneven mason
Or two shadowflame is about equal iirc
proper roost
the design of embellishes is just kind of not good
maiden ravine
Blizzard didn't want them to be that amazing you'd be inting to just use drops vs crafted
proper roost
that's not the part that's not good
it's the fact that outside of sporecloak, flavor pocket, and brez they're all just straight dps increases so the obvious answer is just to take the 2 best ones and every other one is trash/unused
it doesn't matter at all that fang adornments is within 0.5% of shadowflame because its literally the same exact opportunity cost to use shadowflame instead
and the aoe vs st ones are so close that that doesn't matter too (and if it did, it'd be really toxic)
there is basically no point to having variations in embellishments it's a fundamentally broken system
crude notch
how is that any different than any other bp "choice" ever?
proper roost
just because it has been done similarly poorly in the past doesn't mean it's immune to criticism
that's uh in fact literally the opposite
it's like MORE deserving of criticism because it should be obvious how poorly designed it is
crude notch
I don't think it's as poorly designed as you're making it sound, crafting is relevant for the first time since like Wrath
proper roost
that's independent of embellishes though
yeah the crafting system owns if embellishes just didn't exist it would still own
crude notch
What sims best will always be the best option 99.9% of the time
No matter how convaluted the embellish
No matter how convaluted the trinket
No matter how convaluted the essence
No matter how convaluted the azerite power
No matter how convaluted the legendary
crude notch
Idk there's some contention on what's better in higher content.
proper roost
ya because of the existence of sporecloak
which owns
sporecloak is the only well designed interesting embellishment
crude notch
A quazi cheat death isn't any more interesting than a damage embellish imo.
valid hinge
thoughts on this?
crude notch
it's trash
valid hinge
feels like i'm stuck with my beacon + darguls for prot
crude notch
that's pretty accurate
valid hinge
maybe i could use the 437 anchor, o rthe 441 vial for fun sometimes
proper roost
don't see why those trinkets would be disheartening to have
valid hinge
I think its just fun to use something different sometimes.
valid hinge
or to have more options*
proper roost
use OCE sometimes for fun
valid hinge
that trinket doesn't exist for me
proper roost
well just loot the item it's easy
crude notch
Just equip Sporepods for "fun"
valid hinge
i guess i shouldn't talk poorly of beacon/darguls It just feels kinda strange to not have any bad ass defensive options. that changes in 10.1.5 with tha tcheat death
crude notch
uhoh
valid hinge
that cheat death***
crude notch
Phew Jakey isn't awake
valid hinge
lol, i'm a prot noob 😄
crude notch
Unless you're doing content where cheat death matters it's not a great trinket.
valid hinge
Hmm, interesting I didn't think about it that way. I guess I don't really understand prot meta. I'm just recently dipping my toes in it trying to learn
started with helping some friends with low keys who are new to the game
and i realized that prot is really fun to play
but my fingers are clueless on the spec a bit. Coconutcat helped me with some pointers, and it made a big difference.
warm plinth
@sick sentinel
crude notch
based
gloomy vortex
can I put shadowed belt clasp on frostfire belt?
bold bolt
is there an WA for yelling* and telling my grp that placed a repair bot?
lusty grotto
how do people like this get mark + beacon and im stuck with 441 trinkets
smh
well, at least i have mark
ashen harness
i see alot of people are dropping the ring+belt combo now, what are people crafting instead?
which embelishments are people using
lusty grotto
what ring belt combo
lusty grotto
i mean nobody is dropping it
its bis for ST
so bis for raids
we're just not using it for keys
because its not bis for keys
at least a 421 eranog
anything lower would probably need to be simmed
but there's not a lot of damage difference
ashen harness
so its belt + patch for ST
and patch + patch for m+
lusty grotto
i use belt + patch for keys too
warm plinth
It's patch+patch regardless. You use belt instead of patch because it's a more reliable proc source for the ring.
lusty grotto
just not eranog
warm plinth
So if you have eranog ring, you use belt. If you don't, patch is marginally better
pallid quiver
Hmm, interesting I didn't think about it that way. I guess I don't really unders...
A tad bit later, but it's not so much a "meta" or anything as compared to a lot of people legitimately don't understand how tanks work. If you're not dying, you don't need more defensives. If you are dying, you should first see what you can do without gearing for defensiveness, since you lose out on providing more of the encounter clearing number (damage) in exchange. People think tanks need to major gear for defensiveness due to never even caring to understand how tanking works and how damage intake works
lusty grotto
its a small enough difference that you shouldn't really give a damn
warm plinth
^
lusty grotto
im just gonna start pretending i give a damn about defensive trinkets ngl, hopefully the vault takes a bit of pity on not giving me a beacon (or sark for that matter)
oh no i didnt get treemouth/talisman, at least i have ire, please help me get a pairing defensive trinket vault
watch vault give me four different 2 handers again
this tuesday
😢
jagged pier
So if you have eranog ring, you use belt. If you don't, patch is marginally bet...
eh yes and no
the belt also gives mastery and u want at least a bit of mastery
like its one of my 2 pieces with mastery on it
proud patrol
are the dungeons nerfs already live?
lusty grotto
Yes
ashen harness
is it an argument to not craft ring back neck, since you want more stats from higher value items with higher ilv?
or does it not matter
dense hound
@jagged pier its my only source of mastery lmao like im under 200 mastery overall
Am i fucked ?
crude notch
yes you'll never be able to even enter a +10 key
dusky sentinel
Morning fellow blockbusters! Im trying to master this 4p bonus but I feel I can do more. What percentage of ur dmg is earthen smash around?
jagged pier
<@179993058186625025> its my only source of mastery lmao like im under 200 maste...
maybe a little nome was explaining yesterday or like 2 days ago u want around 20-23% mastery because of how stats are u get more mastery per point of stat and like getting a tiny bit of mastery can increase your chance to crit block by like 33% for like no stat at all
jagged pier
might be worth see what happens swaping gems and stuff enchants around
could also cata your shoulders they give haste mastery then
but thats permenant
but like does it really matter depends on the content u do tbh
like only got to around that lvl of mastery recently did all protals and mythic prog with 17%
jagged gust
watch vault give me four different 2 handers again
I only got 3 2h's, #winning
dense hound
might be worth see what happens swaping gems and stuff enchants around
Will try it 
pallid quiver
Need to drop some crit then
If you can still gain ilvl upgrades, I wouldn't fuss over it, but the basic idea is that going from, say, 1 to 2% mastery is a 100% increase in its effectiveness, while going from 20 to 21% crit is only a 5% increase. So, even if the stat is technically of less general value, you get more of that stat if it's lower compared to if it's higher for the same number of stat. And ultimately, more stat pretty much usually wins out always in comparison to specific stats. You can sim for the offensive part of this, but you can't really sim the defensive aspect.
sick sentinel
https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-gb/character/eu/malygos/Addblock
if i ever rename my character i might steal your name, "addsblocker" i would do instead
crude notch
@jagged pier I hope you have a great day cutie
jagged pier
blazing condor
idle quartz
Hey guys! At the risk of sounding like a noob, how are you guys dealing with the Timereaver debuff on Uldaman? I’m trying to LOS, but they just chase me down and reapply the debuff anyways. If I try to run just before they do the cast, the debuff just gets reapplied anyways
I’ve tried throwing out a stun and running like hell, and it works okay, but I know it’s not how I should be doing this. Thanks in advanced
vocal verge
You just deal with it coming from my pov. Use your DRs for that first pull and you’ll have them back for the next pull. If your healer isn’t dispelling hold them for a second for when the stacks get high.
You can belf or have a offensive dispel in the group to remove the buff off the mob itself, which helps reduce damage a little bit
idle quartz
Just when I was thinking about switching to belf… I hate to leave things up to team comp. My priest didn’t even know he had mass dispel till we wiped on the stupid thing like 6 times.
That’s helpful though
strong forum
You pull as few of them as you can
They're massively overtuned and in high keys people never pull more than 1
They skip the double pack infront of the boss, and also priest
hallow phoenix
My group only pulls one reaver and the two whatever-they-are in that first room. We invis skip the rest of those dragonbois
jagged gust
They skip the double pack infront of the boss, and also priest
I wish I wasn't so shit at making the jump to skip them
hazy bronze
You can leap it
jagged gust
I've seen it done, but whenever I try I get pathing errors
Like I get there eventually, idk something just doesn't click for me, it's like learning to wall jump in classic all over again lol
hazy bronze
I found aiming for the Vertex while moving backwards helped
strong forum
theyre already live
twin bramble
Interesting how they nerfed some easy dungeons like NL and BH, but barely touched the miserable uldaman
strong forum
uhm
NL was anything but easy on tyr
same goes for BH first and last boss
all of these nerfs are absolutely valid
south zealot
Hey guys! At the risk of sounding like a noob, how are you guys dealing with the...
only pull one and get dispelled
twin bramble
@strong forum yeah you’re right looking at it from a tyrannical lens. I was hoping they’d address some trash like ulda fort.
kind urchin
I let the stacks build up a bit then dwarf it.
south zealot
i get owned by chomp but thats it
strong forum
there are still a few things left on some bosses thats not in line with the difficutly curve, but its a step in the right direction
twin bramble
Agreed
strong forum
and trash mobs that only affect the tank rarely get nerfed
so i wouldnt hope for it
twin bramble
Haha
south zealot
yeah just gotta deal with it
twin bramble
Looking at it from a tyrannical lens, I think Bromach is the only outlier of a tough boss that wasn’t touched. Maybe altairus
But looks good overall. Excited to try to time neltharus now 😂
strong forum
chains boss bugging out likes a word
twin bramble
Since hotfix?
twin bramble
What is bugged?
strong forum
everything
dude can just not spawn any chains
can spawn 2 chains on the same player
only spawn 2 chains at all and not 3
south zealot
that boss is fucked
twin bramble
Interesting. Only one I’ve seen is the last one, and it’s explainable when a dps dies during phase before tripping.
strong forum
boss is anything but consistent
twin bramble
Prob cause I avoid that place and my sample size is low 😂
One of the few portals I’m missing.
jagged gust
I actually love Neltharus, indirectly nerfing Burning Slash just makes me love it more
jagged gust
"A character with that name already exists" Welp there goes my freehold run
sick sentinel
jagged gust
okay I can't get into any mythics rn, just happened again. Stuck in loading, force quit then my character cant log in. Time to go touch grass ig
ocean valley
for defense would you rather go mastery?
pallid quiver
for defense would you rather go mastery?
Haste is technically the best stat for defensiveness, due to it improving the overall flow of the spec, of which the large majority of its ability to survive is based upon (keeping shield block up, feeding IPs, etc). That being said, all stats contribute to your defensive output, so it's important to have all stats. In most cases, having more of all secondaries in general is better than stacking some over others.
ocean valley
so ofc usually do ilvl for most gear so prolly end up with mixed stats anyways
but i dont wanna go for haste and mastery for my primary two then?
strong forum
ilvl > haste > crit >= vers > mastery
ocean valley
why crit?
strong forum
more dmg and parry is good
pallid quiver
Most damage intake is physical, so a chance to just pretend an attack didn't happen is pretty good
toxic pewter
isnt it possible to simply just compare logs of two equal dungeons of a tank that runs crit vs tank that runs vers and see which one literally just takes less damage? Doesnt that mathematically prove which is better for defensiveness or am I missing something
pallid quiver
Well, crit is an RNG stat, so you'd still need a larger sample size. On top of that, there's a lot of other factors that kick in to how many melees and such even come in (Waiting to interrupt mobs that stop to cast, stuns, disorients, spell queueing sometimes, managing to backpedal, when the parries even take place, like if it was during a CD or not), and it depends on just too many factors to just spitball out quickly. It'd help get an idea, but you'd need to be more thorough in ways that are very difficult to do and say flat-out
toxic pewter
I guess it would need like a large sample size and average it all out or something but yeah good points
strong forum
you see
i just farmed it in like 2hrs speedrun
so now i dont have to play the game
valid hinge
"A character with that name already exists" Welp there goes my freehold run
Dealt with this bug particularly with freehold two days in a row
daring marlin
back to d4 then
valid hinge
holy fuck lmao
Go run old raids to get raid bosses
strong forum
nah i did fireworks
then a bunch of worldquests+worldboss+reputation
did the trick
chilly brook
isnt it possible to simply just compare logs of two equal dungeons of a tank tha...
I don’t even think you’d need to run dungeons to compare
tidal nest
any tips for surviving dragons in HoI?
chilly brook
any tips for surviving dragons in HoI?
Just don’t eat the breath
fresh igloo
any tips for surviving dragons in HoI?
The breath is short range
chilly brook
You can outrange it
tidal nest
oh
fresh igloo
Back step aggressively
tidal nest
wtf lol
fresh igloo
It's a wide cone but short
jagged gust
backstep you still eat a tick or two if you're slow
fresh igloo
Just move as soon as you see the cast start
tidal nest
ty!
crude notch
Just back step when you're weak aura calls the skill out, right? 🙂
south zealot
so now i dont have to play the game
devout pewter
guys, a question ... since they are in 'penalty'.
does it make sense to start putting gems versa mastery or versa critical for damage?
crude notch
First penalty is insignificant
crude notch
guys, a question ... since they are in 'penalty'.
does it make sense to start pu...
You want to stop at 7100.
devout pewter
almost impossible to get to that figure
crude notch
Correct, but that doesn't make the point untrue
daring marlin
hi jordan
crude notch
hi cutie
wooden trail
for people around 440~itl, how much dps you usually end runs?
hazy bronze
80-100k
torn gulch
any tips for surviving dragons in HoI?
15 yards range pretty easy to outrange
i normally put the smaller dragon packs perpendicular to the tunnel near a wall then i outrange to the other wall so i don't pull packs which are further in the tunnel
lime urchin
for people around 440~itl, how much dps you usually end runs?
On what key?
lime urchin
for people around 440~itl, how much dps you usually end runs?
With what comp?
jagged pier
97ish-111k dungeon dependant
tidal nest
15 yards range pretty easy to outrange
i normally put the smaller dragon packs p...
question, if u outrange it like this, is he not gonna cleave ur party?
torn gulch
if they stay on the side of the dragon no
i keep it in such a way that melee can stay on the side of it
and range upstream of it
at the beginning of the season i was outranging top to bottom and i was pulling from my back
so i had to change positioning
last pack before third boss is the easiest to outrange
as you have ample space
twin bramble
do you guys pull the two 3 packs next to gorek at the same time? (in neltharus; 2nd boss)
south zealot
u pull everything and kill with chain
jagged gust
I just kind of chain pull the entire stairway
twin bramble
Yeah sry I meant 3rd
Pug group wasn’t wiping anywhere but died when I pulled both of these. Wasn’t sure if it was a fluke or you’re not supposed to both both
Thanks
empty inlet
Need stop on melts
Feel like in pugs someone is gonna die to double melts for sure in those
lime urchin
Just try it
twin bramble
I did. And dps died. Haha was wondering if it was the at group or it’s the standard to pull separately
waxen vale
Has anyone gone full haste crit build with might yet successfully?
I'm about to craft a 447 neck and thinking of making it that but my current is only 441 haste mastery
mighty valley
Might?
waxen vale
Yea instead of sentient
Sentinel*
I'm trying to sim every possible permutation of stats but
Its a little overwhelming and on top of that idk if my sim settings are good for mplus
mighty valley
Is this paladin shit
mighty valley
Traitor
waxen vale
Lol
waxen vale
Every tank needs to carry sometimes
south zealot
u good lol
waxen vale
Paladin is bis for carries
south zealot
but u want some of every stat
not exclusively haste crit bc they will dr and less value
lusty grotto
huh
waxen vale
Secondaries dont DR until 40% right
lusty grotto
icy atlas
Can Prot spec drop Mark of Dag in NL?
mighty valley
dr starts at 30ish but it’s a minor effect
mighty valley
but if you’re still asking paladin questions idk how they value stats
stuck herald
Is there a way for prot war (dwarf) on M sark to do the solo part from p2 transition to p3?
mellow bridge
lusty grotto
nerfs good, people still bad
proper roost
still timeable
proper roost
the timing of ur statement
lusty grotto
cause people cant handle the double
proper roost
hilarious
lusty grotto
kicking too hard
proper roost
warlock mage group smh
lusty grotto
like its just downright stupid, ive had it with timeable quitters
they are insta getting PBL'd
yeah mage pick was a mistake
he was frost, we didnt look him up
i was like uhh hes frost, shit is gonna be sus on sanguine week
but he ended up being bad for other reasons lol
and the pally that barely kicked
fuck i wanted a 105k BH
lusty grotto
click the picture
i have to say more cause
the fucking ret paladin is from THRALL
so it doesnt matter
lets not get into this conversation again
sick sentinel
i don't really know much about different servers and their peoples
sick sentinel
never made a note of it besdie obivous ones, tich, ragnaos
proper roost
the funny thing is the bh timer is so lenient that you can wipe like 6 times at the starting area on a sub ~23 and still time it
lusty grotto
yeah idk what these people are thinking
they had timed a 20, they should fucking know how the timer works
shammy said ok time for a break
fuck dude, its so painful
my english is even breaking down i swear to god
im telling you its been back to back
or seems like it
proper roost
nimblychiply
time for me to take an unbreak
hmm or do normal mode rashok
options, options
lusty grotto
well shammy and me want to push but these things happening are such a downer
proper roost
play fury and get a prot pally
lusty grotto
just saps all desire to go
lusty grotto
lol
proper roost
i'll carry u nim
this normal mode group is at rashok and there are 15 healer signups
4 healers already there
lusty grotto
im just upset at people quitting on very timeable keys
like i get it if the key isn't
that's just how it goes
i dont even care that they didnt kick
proper roost
was it the warlock's key
lusty grotto
nah my friend's
lusty grotto
now we gotta get NL up from 20s which im only dreading cause 20s is rating trench area for pugs
and 20 bh from that same area
proper roost
that's not my experience unless you do it on mondays
most people who are doing 20s just want weekly vault completion and are competent just don't really know the key
which doesn't really matter cuz you don't really die on fort weeks to not knowing the key
lusty grotto
last week was really bad for it
proper roost
and also there are 5000 signups for 20s so you can just wait 2 minutes and get the 3k io people who are burned out
lusty grotto
maybe it wont be that bad this time
sick sentinel
this week seems good for push if you can get shit out of sanguine
proper roost
it's not
proper roost
sanguine is one of the worst affixes for pushing now
lusty grotto
it depends on the dungeon
sick sentinel
tank
why are 0 dps signing up to a aberrus normal
crude notch
sanguine becoming less and less about the tank and more about when you get a scuffed spell queue'ing on a mob
proper roost
because generally tanks have automarkers
torn gulch
yep
proper roost
and those require group lead to work
pallid quiver
Automarkers have always felt wack to me
proper roost
they want you to dictate the pace, making tank group lead is normal
torn gulch
yogi do you have auto markers?
cri cri cri
pallid quiver
i've just keybound my marks and have lived that way for years
sick sentinel
because generally tanks have automarkers
noit me
lusty grotto
i use automarker for pugs
because youre not calling out kicks on disc
and i have bound marks for the rare situation where everyone decides to log on
proper roost
it doesn't matter whether you have it or not yogi
I'm just explaining to you why people change group lead to you
They don't know you, they're just assuming since most tanks do
it literally doesn't matter who's group lead
sick sentinel
i only mark skull and x
proper roost
that's fine
i do not care and neither do pugs
they don't know that and it doesn't really matter
crude notch
Tanks are usually given lead not because of automarkers, no one gives a shit about those, they do it because of party frames 99 times out of 100
south zealot
peoples frames dont have tanks and healers in set locations?
daring marlin
Tanks are usually given lead not because of automarkers, no one gives a shit abo...
Pretty much this. Hence it usually being the healer requesting it.
crude notch
peoples frames dont have tanks and healers in set locations?
some don't, no.
vocal pawn
I have a little question as a tank noob. I played a guardian druid as my first tank and had a lot of fun to get him to 60 with dungeons only. Was a smooth experience. Now I'm playing with a warrior and struggling (29 currently). I have no issues with use the defense cooldown but to hold aggro. The druid felt so much easier. Is something wrong with my warrior?
lusty grotto
hard to say without logs
south zealot
need a lot of haste to have more rage and lower thunderclap cooldown
you just need to level up and get gear
lusty grotto
yeah i was about to say that
proper roost
normal mode pugs are so fucking weird 
whole group is like "we're zerging assault we're zerging assault"
south zealot
guardian had an easier time holding threat early on bc they can spam aoe every global
lusty grotto
but theres no real way to know if hes doing something wrong