idk havent been in there in a month
#protection
strong forum
harsh light
Right before mini boss
strong forum
yeah thats where i mean
strong forum
like neltharus route is now just "okay where are chains, and what can i pull into it"
green bronze
keystone guru just bugged and showed 3 wardens
green bronze
like neltharus route is now just "okay where are chains, and what can i pull int...
im quite sure no chains are usable on that pull
lust is the only choice
uneven mason
Tell that to literally every pug ever
strong forum
and that pull in general is quite dumb cuz 2 casters + 2x blazing slash + bird is alot of group and tank dmg
- adds spawning from the shields
with pugs and without skipping id just split it into 2
uneven mason
"going to skip the big guy" Pug_Hunter02 - "Hold my beer"
green bronze
and that pull in general is quite dumb cuz 2 casters + 2x blazing slash + bird i...
ye, i was doing that pull in 21s and 20s and was wondering how does everyone survive that
strong forum
timer isnt that tight
just dont
suicide pull
cuz every DPS will focus on bird
nobody will kick anything
and you get your shit pushed in from blazing slashes
is just not a good pull
green bronze
btw, i have seen tattman facetank basilisks in +24
strong forum
i cant say much about those besides hearsay
ive never done that dungeon as tank so i cant say for sure how scary or not scary they are
and if people struggling with them is just a skill issue or not
green bronze
it is obviously a skill issue, also lack of practice
crude notch
Who's tattman
strong forum
one of the few prot warris left
strong forum
ye hes dwarf
green bronze
like i go into uldaman 20, i don't have the ability to practice, i need a surefire strat to kill those basilisks, i oftentimes start to kite right away
strong forum
i doubt its necessary in a 20 to do any fancy shit
green bronze
most of the times i fail miserably cause not enough room to kite)
green bronze
they didn't have evoker, but he is dwarf
crude notch
Stops, dwarf, etc. can go a long way to making someone look like a god
strong forum
often times a tank looks tanky because his group plays super well
green bronze
i seriously need a guide for these packs
strong forum
best example, naowh did a project in s4 with people who barely got KSM to see how high he could push
low and behold even he would get his shit pushed in in low keys
cuz everything would go off
waxen vale
I regret how much i agree wjth jordan on this one
strong forum
its almost as if m+ is a group activity 
waxen vale
No one can facetsnk that kind of thing on a 24 without stoneform and bleed removal but with it ez clap
Idc how good u or heals is
And stops ofc
I mean i do that too
green bronze
i fail to live through 3 stacks of chomp without wall
crude notch
Well the trick is to not get to 3 stacks
strong forum
desync to prevent getting to 3 stacks to begin with
waxen vale
I just wait until like 2 then use bleed racial
crude notch
And why would you try to live it WITHOUT wall anyways?
strong forum
just before they reapply bleed, shockwave or slightly get out of range
waxen vale
Usually v rushing talisman or whatever before
green bronze
Usually v rushing talisman or whatever before
what is rushing talisman?
crude notch
Micro kiting as Kitch calls it
torn gulch
the same microkiting you do on the humanoid serpents you need to do on basilisks
i wonder can triple basilisks be skipped if you go to g6?
because if you can skip that then double basilisks is not that bad
jagged gust
i wonder can triple basilisks be skipped if you go to g6?
pretty sure someone mentioned exactly that earlier
jagged gust
I mean like earlier in the day, dont worry
torn gulch
fair enough i only read like the last 30 min
sick sentinel
how do you see which track the gear is in vault before hand
like, i dunno the lowest key that would drop a 1/8 heroic in the vault (i wouldn't do this i think, but i could)
so i don't open a champion or veteran piece.
its only a +8 to get 1/8 hero gear in the vault, if anyone is on an alt and wants to cheese it
goes up to 441
sick sentinel
long as i get hero gear i don't really care
fluid compass
is the ring still going to be good for us in 10.1? guild is making me switch from blood to prot warr bc our bshout left and i need to know if i should farm the ring
crude notch
its only a +8 to get 1/8 hero gear in the vault, if anyone is on an alt and want...
is it really cheese?
strong forum
craggy pilot
is the harpoon in Freehold just completely random target?
sick sentinel
harpoon?
craggy pilot
it seems to favor ranged
yea just had ranged get oneshot from the big guy after harppon xD
sick sentinel
ima not sure i recall harpooners in fh
craggy pilot
i stunned the harpooners the first time big guy did swirley
proper roost
Well yes pulling the giant with a harpooner pack is just stupid
proper roost
The solution is to just not do that
craggy pilot
but i should have just pulled the 2 packs with no big guy
i love when people wanna take over the route
like they know what shit does 😄
uneven mason
i love when people wanna take over the route
NO THIS WAY (Proceeds to pull 4 water dudes who cast that "Ice up your ass" AE) - doesn't have a single stop
sick sentinel
uneven mason
Harpooners are the ones that pull people back into the bananas
sick sentinel
whats the issue with those dudes again?
uneven mason
whats the issue with those dudes again?
They yank people into bad shit
Or into melee with the ragers
craggy pilot
NO THIS WAY (Proceeds to pull 4 water dudes who cast that "Ice up your ass" AE) ...
healer literally buttpulled 2 packs on top of the white mobs after 1st bridge
on a +20 Freehold
sick sentinel
i think normally 13 is instead the one thats partially inside 10, so that you can partially or fully miss 19
craggy pilot
what would you drop this week for Spell Block in Neltharus? 🤔 Punish?
valid hinge
Is there any alternative to the AH for a shield? i've got a friend coming back to the game, and I was going to tank some timewalking for them tonight for a few hours.
I can't get a shield from m+ or raid to drop for me this week. I've been trying to prep
craggy pilot
Is there any alternative to the AH for a shield? i've got a friend coming back t...
craft with a Spark
craggy pilot
not wasting a spark on that
then there is no other alternatives 🙂
valid hinge
DPS main, never going to main tank, I still need to craft a 2h, sporecloak, vers bracers, lariat, and brez bracers, and a helm. for brez bracers lol
damn
AH it is then
valid hinge
oh really?
fuck yeah, dude thank you. I had no idea that was an option.
I was going to tank them on my DK that I have from legion, but i didn't realize you have to be 60
craggy pilot
valid hinge
plus its probably time i set up prot for my warrior lol
thanks @craggy pilot I appreciate you taking the time to let me know.
torn gulch
apart from some trinkets you can get fully decked in 408 with enchanted whelplings
you just need like 14 whelpling crests
and i think you can get a lot of them from world content only
a new char you can do campaign, weekly 5 heroics quest, fyrakk assault, titan research, weekly spark quest and get whelpling crests and you can do 410-415 faily easily
then straight into raiding or m+
valid hinge
what is the generic prot warrior for dummies build?
which dungeon should i copy
for the most vanilla dip your toes in prot warrior build
fresh igloo
just use the build in the pins here
crude notch
fam
I need help
I'm trying to think of a word
It gets done in class discords all the time
Where someone will share their achievement and someone will lessen the achievement
toxic pewter
downplay
orchid mural
what would you drop this week for Spell Block in Neltharus? 🤔 Punish?
never drop punish. drop bloodsurge instead
valid hinge
that build won't import from the pin anymore its dated
just a headsup for this tab.
fresh igloo
no, it works fine...
proper roost
literally works fine lol
what do you think has changed exactly? both builds in the list were made for 10.1 and no talent changes have happened since
crude notch
just a headsup for this tab.
But both pinned builds import fine so.
valid hinge
I just tried it, it woudln't import
wow said it was from an old version
haven't played prot warrior since wrath itteration,
going to be a fun one to use
damn
jagged gust
I just tried it, it woudln't import
I just tested it rn, works fine
wooden widget
everyone taking into the fray because of the new set bonus?
jagged gust
yeah, with 2piece you dont need HR to keep SB uptime 100%
wooden widget
gotcha ty
sick sentinel
Hello, I had a question for you guys. Can you spell block the underrot ticks Blood Burst? (the death explosion)
I did a +5 and the packs of them dying knocked me over twice
graceful kite
Hello, I had a question for you guys. Can you spell block the underrot ticks Blo...
Yes
Check the pins for a full reflect block spreadsheet
sick sentinel
Check the pins for a full reflect block spreadsheet
Thanks, sorry I just joined server 30 seconds ago
warm plinth
You died to that in a +5 though? That's strange.
proper roost
the idea is generally to not pull ticks if you can help it, just fyi - on higher keys they won't just kill you, they'll kill the entire group
sick sentinel
proper roost
well usually they won't kill the tank
sick sentinel
not good
proper roost
but they will definitely kill the group
i'd guess there's several other things that happened that killed you rather than just the tick bursts; spell block isn't generally taken for UR
sick sentinel
i hate over timing on a key
humble valve
Hey guys, what´s the item from 4set that you don´t want?
proper roost
it's fine, it just overemphasizes defense
clear surge
i want to say legs but im not fully sure
proper roost
which is probably the play for raiding, just not keys
clear surge
the legs from neltharus are absolutely crazy good for fury so
waxen frigate
it's fine, it just overemphasizes defense
the guide?
just looking for a solid resource to learn in addition to asking specific questions in here
primarily for M+ but eventually i'd like to learn all facets
proper roost
mostly in gearing/stat prio yeah
waxen frigate
yea gearing is the least of my concerns tbh
mostly just looking for talent/rotation insight
proper roost
just use the talents here and the rest of the guide is fine
pwar very straightforward
crude notch
Your presumptions are correct Nish, it's similar to Brew's WH guide
warm plinth
@crude notch hi cutie pie ❤️
crude notch
gloomy hazel
jagged gust
i want to say legs but im not fully sure
Shoulders I imagine, get that mastery trash out of here
crude notch
I ended up pulling wowhead up mid key so I could grab the sotr link, so they could find it.
wooden widget
is it no longer possible to get the shield mog from halls of valor?
crude notch
the only one non-obtainable is the Original MT skin
crude notch
peekaboo
daring marlin
Non gremlin
crude notch
i dont see it on the loot table anymore
definitely still drops
wooden widget
cool ty
crude notch
there's comments on wowhead of people getting it as of last month so
cinder marsh
hey if i get someone to make me the unstable frostfire belt can i send it over to my alt?
proper roost
No, crafted items are bop
cinder marsh
damn
proper roost
You can work order it on your alt.
But if you don't have the crests and shit you can't make it. I mean
Think about it for 2 seconds
If you could do this then the meta to minmax would be to get a bunch of shit crafted on like 3 separate alts
then send them all to your main
There is a reason you have to earn the things on that character to work order it
icy atlas
Is it possible to have 100% SB uptime with the raid build in the pins?
calm aurora
How much does the 4p shockwave from shield slam do for y'all in a dungeon? Like % of your damage? Just got the 4set myself and been around 3.5% consistently
crude notch
ok but, he had full holy power the entire time to brez
If only he could brez himself
cinder marsh
hey so yall are prots, what would yall consider the best group, class wise?
crude notch
A good one
cinder marsh
to be more specific, like would it be best for a priest healer than other ones like i need the best group to make
surreal birch
Someone was telling me to go Crit last time I was asking about things, I took that to my heart.
surreal birch
How much does the 4p shockwave from shield slam do for y'all in a dungeon? Like ...
can't tell you for sure, but 3-5% is what I can remember when running on my main in boss week
surreal birch
Is it possible to have 100% SB uptime with the raid build in the pins?
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/mgP1WzwZbTRJDGKv#fight=5&type=auras&source=20 yep doable (the downtime is from me being stupid and using too much Revenge)
calm aurora
can't tell you for sure, but 3-5% is what I can remember when running on my main...
Good to know, i felt like it was a bit low for me but this is also an alt so i gotta get into the habit of pressing shield slam in aoe a lot more.
crude notch
Someone was telling me to go Crit last time I was asking about things, I took th...
that's a lot of sussy mastery
my pwar in my nelth got some sussy talents
waxen vale
Bloodborne seems pretty good why don't i run that
That's what I've been doing unless i want Sblok
waxen vale
But I'm sensing maybe its not perfect
surreal birch
that's a lot of sussy mastery
that's what the item I got on my 417ilvl warrior alt rolled, my ulu mulu got more of 20-20-20-10
warm plinth
Most people do not run Bloodborne.
You're giving up 2 points that would be better spent elsewhere for a talent that shouldn't even cost 2 points.
surreal birch
Bloodborne seems pretty good why don't i run that
For M+ maybe, but you are there to take damage
for raid I just spec into all time spell block, can't care about ravager too much
warm plinth
what is even happening in here
crude notch
It's misinformation hour
ionic fern
crude notch
It's okay, I still love you.
modern brook
for raid I just spec into all time spell block, can't care about ravager too muc...
thats a bad take
ionic fern
I'm also chilling with Spell Block 24/7 tbh. 😂 Apparently not, checked my logs.
But i'm giving up Instigate for it, not Ravager.
hallow phoenix
Isn't Bloodborne the heal damage based off deep wounds?
hallow phoenix
Oh
restive crown
is the pelter not moving if not targeted by melee in nelt lair really true?
crude notch
Yes
echo egret
is the pelter not moving if not targeted by melee in nelt lair really true?
Does that include the tank ?
restive crown
Does that include the tank ?
i believe so
timber terrace
Auto attacks make them jump
oblique kayak
i really love the new gearing system combined with crafting but i habe to admit - vault don’t feel good most of the time. Still i prefer it this way. Wish the vault could or targeted though
undone verge
People have been complaining about the vault since it came out. Blizz just needs to find a way to make it not disappointing if you get a piece of gear you don’t need
crude notch
idk i enjoy the vault being the "bis or socket" show it is this season thanks to the upgrade system.
The only thing missing imo is a freeze option.
cinder nova
i really love the new gearing system combined with crafting but i habe to admit ...
X number of surrendered vaults gives a token that lets you buy a targeted piece at an ilvl relative to the tokens.
Maybe after week 3, though.
oblique kayak
X number of surrendered vaults gives a token that lets you buy a targeted piece ...
just uce the Socket tockens - Trinkets cost 30 and so on
cinder nova
Can't. What ilvl do they start at? What gear tier? If you just plug vault with garbage every week you shouldn't be rewarded.
Should be metacurrency parceled out related to Myth, Hero, Champion, Veteran, etc.
oblique kayak
Just use Socket Tokens and lock the levels behind Io
cinder nova
That's making a lot of extra systems for a small change.
oblique kayak
true
cinder nova
If they do let us target, they have to delay when we can start targeting until after the first few weeks of a season so people don't just feel obligate to burn vault at the outset unless you're insanely lucky.
Because that'd feel even worse, imo.
real minnow
Does it increase the drop Chance for Forgestorm (Nelt) when i play with people who can use maces?
45 runs and i think something is broken...
blazing condor
i mean its gonna be a bigger chance that it drops if you run with people who can have it drop
sick sentinel
sweet haven
Dropchance is always the same: 50/50. It drops or it doesnt. Simple math.
jagged gust
does anyone have issues with hunter pets around the first boss of freehold? Every time Ive ran it with one we get an extra pull in the fucking trees and they're the only constant I can think of
well aside from me lol
solemn elk
In the trees?
So before the boss?
There’s some snapping issue around there, between the 4 mobs on the right and the trees on the left
Sometimes you get teleported around
jagged gust
Yeah just after your second pull, think that's the 4 mob pack you're talking about with 2 crackshots and an enforcer
I'll be sitting in the arena hunky dory and when I look behind there's a fucking massacre ensuing
only twice now, but with hunters both times
solemn elk
It’s not the usual pathing so it may happen to pets
It’s on the balcony thingy where the pack is standing
And on the left of the pack as well
Some hole on the floor or a log or something
jagged gust
if we somehow manage to pull that left pack as well im probably gonna ragequit ngl
So that's not a worry
urban bramble
hey guys how do you handle the dds who pop everything while i try to grp? Am I supposed to git gud or shall I just let them die. One example is FH when you jump down to 2nd boss, I usually pull the caster grp the 2 at house and ratpat there
jagged gust
well honestly im hotheaded at times
jagged pier
thats bad for a tank
jagged pier
hey guys how do you handle the dds who pop everything while i try to grp? Am I s...
i mean if your grouping mobs and they pop thats on them
but u should tell them the plan
or give them a route if u plan to pull big
so they know
lost dust
Talking to zugzugers is the key
urban bramble
ok yeah I let people know generally The thing is that when I do DD wich isnt rare I never have aggro problems^^. Usually when I try to panic aggro all back I die so i might just be better off letting my dds die if they are too early
jagged gust
Letting a dps die is nothing compared to you going down then a full wipe
If they're smart they'll run to you and the problem solves itself
tardy sequoia
hi guys, is 406 ilvl high enough for a +15?
ionic fern
Yes.
tardy sequoia
my shield/weapon are both 389 tho.. i'm asking this because i 3 chested a 11 NL but got bricked in a +14 Halls and a +15 VP
ionic fern
Unfortunately keys are group content.
If your group is solid a +15 is np.
if it's trash it's hard.
tardy sequoia
i see, thank you
glacial skiff
So anyone know why i had a ticking dot of lava geyser on last boss of neltharion's lair? the dot had an infinite duration
crude notch
Do you have a log
glacial skiff
the robot?
craggy pilot
yes
glacial skiff
the red balls are kinda translucent
it is plausible that could happen tho may just be ppl making excuses lmao
craggy pilot
😰
crude notch
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/CwTbLFM1d2tnxHhX/#fight=last
yeah everything i've looked at in game and on wowhead doesn't state a duration, but also it requires you to step in the geyser in the first place to even get it so this kinda makes sense
sick sentinel
Unfortunately keys are group content.
If your group is solid a +15 is np.
10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 5% pleasure, 50% pain
tardy isle
I've been playing a bit of prot just for kicks, and had a question about maximizing your damage
do you just spam revenge/slam over TC if you're not gonna IP in aoe
assuming your targets have rend that is
sick sentinel
if you mean regular slam, never slam ever
tardy isle
shield slam
craggy pilot
love when i ask if they wanna pull packs with lust, or go boss with lust on 2nd boss Freehold
and heal just goes "what, you tank"
sick sentinel
i think it depends alot on violent outburst and punish are the 2 main ones i think of that increase SS dmg
tardy isle
the actual question is whether tc or revenge should be used during like avatar when your tc doesnt have cd basically
revenge does more on tooltip so I just assumed that's a better gcd to use
craggy pilot
do you just spam revenge/slam over TC if you're not gonna IP in aoe
why are you not gonna IP in AOE?
craggy pilot
revenge does more on tooltip so I just assumed that's a better gcd to use
Revenge costs rage, TC generates
so TC always over Revenge
sick sentinel
you know what it is... is that.... i really do prefer a raid.... i like the loot and all the people the cool bosses
i hate literally every other part of the raiding
rolling on shit, afk, wait 10 minutes for healer to get amazon or take a piss
someones yelling, someone can't make it, some ones trying to one up this other guy
glacial skiff
yeah everything i've looked at in game and on wowhead doesn't state a duration, ...
Yeah idk how i stepped in it, i was nowhere near the graphic it just started ticking. pretty sure i was like 10-20 feet from it
tardy isle
why are you not gonna IP in AOE?
I'm only interested in what's most dps, not whether I should be using IP or not mate
sick sentinel
and meanwhile, we might be dying on the boss to avoidable shit while all thats occuring
craggy pilot
I'm only interested in what's most dps, not whether I should be using IP or not ...
IP is most DPS bro
you do IP to avoid overcapping Rage
to get more CDR for Avatar
which does more dmg
sick sentinel
its that a dungeon is a more convienient raid, more concise and to the point and forgetable if SHTF
craggy pilot
SS > TC > Revenge always, and IP to use rage when no globals available
tardy isle
alright
sick sentinel
what you gunna remember more, being stuck in 2 keys with the healer is laggin out, so for 1 hour, vs, that, but like, tmes it can happen to up to 39 of the other players
crude notch
yeah if you're not IP'ing you're not interested in "what's most dps"
yogi who are you talking to
tardy isle
literal monologue :d
sick sentinel
and its for like, 7 hours, and you do that twice on saturday sunday and then "we didnt get anyone show up" on monday so nothin change
i do like raiding, but its all the other crap that comes with it.
hazy bronze
Let him cook
tardy isle
sick sentinel
i dunno, been doing this keys thing for 3 whole expansions now
its really starting to run its course on me wear me out
uneven mason
I'm only interested in what's most dps, not whether I should be using IP or not ...
IP cycles avatar and drives outburst
strong forum
The secret to prot offensively and defensively is proper IP usage
tardy isle
was just thinking that revenge is also a ragedump and IP more for overcapping
strong forum
Revenge is not a ragedump
uneven mason
IP isn't on the gcd
craggy pilot
was just thinking that revenge is also a ragedump and IP more for overcapping
it is, but you do not have GCDs for it, so theres the issue
tardy isle
I see I see
strong forum
Revenge is your SS resettool when TC is on CD
sick sentinel
execute should also reset on SS
tardy isle
I only played a bit prot in shadowlands when you played pingpong ball
but it seems okay now
strong forum
I miss SL prot
tardy isle
man that shit was so boring
craggy pilot
you mean kiting?
tardy isle
no, you had a stupid legendary that gave you shieldblock on charge/intervene
craggy pilot
ahh
tardy isle
so you charged>intervened>charged>heroic leap out>charge
craggy pilot
Nome actually misses Reprisal? 🤔
tardy isle
like a fucking pingpong ball
sick sentinel
we dart around the room covered in metal
strong forum
I miss SL prot, not reprisal itself
strong forum
Cuz current prot is just so very boring
craggy pilot
the Banner season was huge
strong forum
0 skill expression
craggy pilot
but idk first season with no Reprisal
strong forum
Super dumbed down spec
craggy pilot
i dont miss that for sure 😄
tardy isle
prot is a boring spec
worst tank to play for sure imo but I'm doing 20's and down to boost friends and get some variance
tardy isle
but I dont think its as bad as last time I played it so I'm quite happy
sick sentinel
and we fine
strong forum
That's a you take
craggy pilot
worst tank to play for sure imo but I'm doing 20's and down to boost friends and...
worst tank to play??? 
uneven mason
Yeah SL prot was strong but required more than single digit IQ
strong forum
Prot hasn't been bad since 9.0.0
craggy pilot
BANNER, CONDEMN, BLOODLUST
get condemn off that list tho
sick sentinel
no fuckin way bro
strong forum
It's now just quite simple compared to SL
sick sentinel
condoemn is make it or break it for me personal
uneven mason
get condemn off that list tho
TFW plka was world #1 and venthyr
uneven mason
M+
sick sentinel
i would remove a good talent to make room for condemn in warrior main tree
strong forum
He was venthyr because of raid
uneven mason
Yup
craggy pilot
0 skill expression
what spec would you say has the highest skill expression currently of Tanks tho?
sick sentinel
also asmongold was condemn, but, thats streemermanz
craggy pilot
like the spec itself, outside of just having 100 utility buttons like Paladin
uneven mason
what spec would you say has the highest skill expression currently of Tanks tho?
BRM easy
strong forum
what spec would you say has the highest skill expression currently of Tanks tho?
Vdh and brm
craggy pilot
yea had a VDH on my Resto Shaman yesterday
uneven mason
Vdh you can spot a bad one if you're healing
craggy pilot
guy was not keeping himself up at all 🤣
frosty mist
What do you mean by skill expression ?
uneven mason
Because they almost die on engage
sick sentinel
which DH id the tank one
cuz i don't DH or druid or warlock
or shaman, add that to list too
uneven mason
What do you mean by skill expression ?
Actually having to press buttons in the right timings to do well
crude notch
clearly skill expression for bear is pretty high. Something is missing. 🤔
tardy isle
roar before or after ravager?
strong forum
After
tardy isle
makes sense for threat
strong forum
It's ravager->charge->demo->roar->sc
uneven mason
roar before or after ravager?
Ravager leads DS because of tick delay
tardy isle
dont you wanna shieldcharge first for the block?
strong forum
Don't need to
You have enough rage from charge + avatar
Also you send LS on pull too
So that's another source of block
uneven mason
You'll want to spend the charge of sb to cycle some rage and get the cd rolling
tardy isle
really
uneven mason
Otherwise you'll be hard overcap on rage
Our opener is like 170 rage
So you're pumping IP during it
tardy isle
would a separate macro for tc/ip be bad?
strong forum
Yes
tardy isle
ok 😭
strong forum
You only want ip on the macro listed in pins
Or rather
You want SS on your IP button
But not IP on your SS button
uneven mason
IP with SS after it to snipe resets from devastator
jagged gust
^disagree
tardy isle
oh ye that makes sense
tardy isle
assuming you dont have gcd you get a free ss
tardy isle
I have my IP on 2 buttons anyways
because I'm used to the bind as arms but I also want it on a more convenient one
strong forum
Press F to Ignore Pain
:salute:
jagged gust
I like to have control over my gcds, if my other kicks are on cd and my only option is a stun I want my gcd's to be open just in case
strong forum
When do you ever press IP + a stun
That seems weird
You can still IP during the gcd that's already ticking
Without sending SS
That's the whole thought process
uneven mason
I like to have control over my gcds, if my other kicks are on cd and my only opt...
Not using a gcd just incase you need to stun?
jagged gust
yes, but if I IP and it triggers the GCD with a SS the moment a cast starts, I'm 1.5 seconds slower to react
uneven mason
Wat
jagged gust
casting SS takes zero effort, how tf would you miss a cast in the first place
tardy isle
if you save cds and wait around for potential interupt usage you're gonna lose a lot of dps
strong forum
tardy isle
gcds*
uneven mason
Because ss can reset mid gcd after you've queued revenge or tc
strong forum
Evidently you don't know about missing milliseconds that all ramp up
To missing out entire casts
And not sniping resets
If you miss a gcd by 100ms every time
tardy isle
I lay sleepless some nights knowing I missed a few gcds over a run
strong forum
By the time you pressed 15gcds,you missed out on over 1 entire cast of a button already
That's where you start losing dps and rage
uneven mason
I lay sleepless some nights knowing I missed a few gcds over a run
It one of those things that you can't unsee once you've learned how to spot it in cpm
tardy isle
XD
jagged gust
Yeah, you can set your cast timer to show ms delay in gcd
uneven mason
Not kidding
jagged gust
its been like that since vanilla
strong forum
Yeah and you want sqw fairly low on prot
To snipe resets
That's the whole point of the macro
It saves Finger movement travel time to change from keybind to keybind, response time from your brain and potential SS resets from melee attacks through devastator
If you know you'll have to stun
Just don't press a button beforehand
uneven mason
its been like that since vanilla
To play the actually guy here, in vanilla they used server tick spell batching, since wod vthey have used an action flow which makes ms janking nearly impossible
strong forum
Default sqw is 400ms
jagged gust
isn't that where casting queue comes into play though?
strong forum
Which means you only have to press a button 3 times per second to not miss a gcd
But you run into danger of sending the wrong gcd
waxen vale
To play the actually guy here, in vanilla they used server tick spell batching, ...
Reddit.com has saved us from ignorance
strong forum
If you aren't quick enough
uneven mason
Which means you only have to press a button 3 times per second to not miss a gcd
I can slow down then
strong forum
Hence the IP macro, it helps with sniping SS resets during the SQW
I've lowered mine to 150 to ensure even more sniping possibilities
But that means I have to press the keybind 7 times a second
To not miss a gcd, but I get more correct spell usage
waxen vale
Shouldn't we just binc every abilit y to SS lol
tardy isle
how's black dragon scale for damage
waxen vale
Hax
strong forum
Then stick to those
tardy isle
okok
waxen vale
Vial lol
strong forum
Altho scale is practically even with vial
Vial gets better the better you are at playing around your own CDs
waxen vale
Nice
strong forum
Yeah not bad
waxen vale
Thats solid
tardy isle
still vial?
strong forum
That's a sim question at that point
tardy isle
I guess. but simming aoe in 2023
waxen vale
I'm kind of a talisman guy this week
tardy isle
its not very good
strong forum
Says who
tardy isle
me obviously
waxen vale
Oooh
strong forum
Yeah but why would you think that
I made sure that aoe sims are fairly accurate
If not dead on accurate
tardy isle
maybe the warrior sims are then
but in general during my course as dps I havent really felt them to be especially accurate and mostly just sim ST and assume for my aoe trinkets
strong forum
Can't speak for what others are doing
But I made sure current Sims reflect current playstyle
tardy isle
cool, what do I sim for aoe then
strong forum
5t 1min no lust
7t 1min no lust
10t 40sec lust
If you want a bigger average that doesn't have all CDs always ready
Sim any target count from 5 to 10 with a random long duration
Be it 3 to 7 minutes
And technically speaking dungeon slice should also suffice to a certain degree
tardy isle
alright cool
fuck I was reading your info and accidentaly put my 24 uldaman in a +11 boost run for my 390 priest buddy
strong forum
That's an expensive boost
tardy isle
im definitely not tanking that
strong forum
Weak
tardy isle
with a gorup of 390's
strong forum
Couldn't hurt to try :kappa:
tardy isle
thanks for the info anyways
cinder monolith
I’ve done the same a couple times before
Join a Valor farm group with my mate doing +2s and accidentally jam in my 23 or smth
craggy pilot
Because they almost die on engage
idk had this happen quite a few times on +20 even with Last stand during my charge
like some mobs are hitting 150k x5 on start of the pull
strong forum
cuz you got hit in the back from charging
craggy pilot
i cant check that from Details right?
like i guess the 60k hits are blocked, the 150k ones are not?
craggy pilot
yea im confused
but youre right it might be Charge causing it
man i hate this "every mob has to insta hit" on pull thing
literally charge in, and 0.1sec you get 5melee
craggy pilot
in +20 or?
strong forum
only 18
but a diff of 4-8x as much
isnt from 2 keylevels
looks like you didnt have block up at all these
getting 80k melees even
no IP and no SB
craggy pilot
90% sure i had block
but ye i been feeling very squishy this week idk why
ill try to aim my Charge better so im not back to the mobs
daring marlin
ive not had a vault since d4 release
someone call the based police
D4 updates gonna be yuge too
olive bay
I know this is a stupid metric, but in keys what are you guys ending up with overall DPS? I routinely hit 70k in details (60kish in WCL) and I know I can be doing better
I just got my second portal but I'm afraid I'm not good enough to go much higher than 21-22
strong forum
60-70k is on the lower end
craggy pilot
was just 94k in Freehold
tardy isle
its all mental buddy
olive bay
I know, and my mental is weak
tardy isle
keys are only as hard as you make them
just grind and fail
fail until its not as hurtful to your ego to fail anymore
and you'll start making it
strong forum
but yeah, there are tanks out there only pulling 40k overalls weasling their way into +23s
they obv get shit on, but they still somehow do it
sick sentinel
well, i decided i'd try to play a dos game instead of wow or whatever... and it was too easy on trainee so i put it on insane and........
craggy pilot
they obv get shit on, but they still somehow do it
do dps really shit on low dps tanks?
or do they not care?
strong forum
no i mean
craggy pilot
i feel like DPS only rly care if you die
craggy pilot
ohh 🤣
strong forum
shit on by the mobs cuz he plays like ass
craggy pilot
i thought its like a guy doing +23 not dying a single time but doing 40k dps
olive bay
Yeah in the 3 keys I ran last night I think I died twice... And at least one of them was due to high stacks not being cleansed by my pally
craggy pilot
and people being like "fuck this guy sucks a$$"
tardy isle
how about literally shit on though
sick sentinel
so, now you can see why im back to wow
tardy isle
does that happen
strong forum
and people being like "fuck this guy sucks a$$"
this does happen, but only in private discords 
sick sentinel
dead in 10 seconds of not paying attention, might as well be playing wow, same thing
craggy pilot
how about literally shit on though
🤔
"yo send me your adress, ill mail you something"
strong forum
but yeah, 60-70k is i guess average?
but you can defo pull 90k+++ in pretty much every key once youre more comfortable and know what youre doing
surreal birch
People have been complaining about the vault since it came out. Blizz just needs...
give us tokens like back in SL S4
sick sentinel
"yo send me your adress, ill mail you something"
this worked in 1995-2005
strong forum
FH and BH up to 130k even
sick sentinel
today with amazon being a thing, nope.
strong forum
but thats literal r1 dps
craggy pilot
every season i think "i should start logging" but it just never happens 🤣
frosty mist
Dps will depend by the size of the pull and the Key lvl no ? I'm doing 16-17 keys, I can make over 100k on few big pack but overall it will be , yeah maybe 60-75k. On boss it will be lower of course .
strong forum
talking overall m+ dmg at the end of a key
not "at this current moment" dps
and that overall should go up the higher the key you do
not go down
frosty mist
Yes, 60-75k overall (boss include)
strong forum
yeah thats about 50% less than what you can do
frosty mist
Ouch 🥺
frosty mist
50% 😭
last pebble
I’d say the only keep you can’t do a ton on is NL and maybe VP but not NL
*dungeon you can’t do
strong forum
NL should be around 85-90k
last pebble
That is definitely r1 dps then
last pebble
Mf is battle stance 24/7
frosty mist
And you do Key +? ?
ashen coral
Hello, when will onyx's annulet will apply ? Will we still use it ? (but the tank build instead of dps)
last pebble
I’m doing 22’ish keys and pulling 75-110k depending on the key at 435
strong forum
thing is we get mad SR value in NL
last pebble
That is true
strong forum
so our dmg will be vastly higher
last pebble
Can you SR anythjbg on first boss?
lucid sand
can SR your boredom on first boss
lucid sand
% dps increase
strong forum
and your odd hard casted stone bolt or w/e its called
last pebble
Reflectable?
strong forum
if its cast on you, yes
last pebble
Yeah I do stone bolts
waxen vale
Can reflect toxic retch?
waxen vale
Wow didn't know
frosty mist
Wt* I'm still doing 16-17 Key at 435 ilvl... I think my group suck. 👌
sick sentinel
craggy pilot
https://old.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/14db1kw/my_experience_with_tanks_in_m/
damn this thread has some weird takes on Warrior
waxen vale
That's the same thing as the poison?
last pebble
Oh yeah I did a 22 Uldaman last night at 434
waxen vale
That poisons u
sick sentinel
main reflects of lair
last pebble
Yes
strong forum
what kind of keylevels your doing is all about your own confidence, willingness to actually do keys that offer nothing but e-peen, and your group
last pebble
I’m finding f prot warrior is super good until it’s not good 😂
lucid sand
Prot is immortal, until it isnt
last pebble
Sometimes I just have literally no rage and no button to press and im screaming for an external
Yup
strong forum
well its literal S tier tank for current season
last pebble
It’s so underrated
strong forum
the only reason why its not meta tank is because DPS meta is full casters
if you had 2 melee dps, prot war would be the play
last pebble
No one’s talking about prot warr
I actually switched from prot pally to prot warrior
strong forum
only reason why VDH is so popular rn is chaos brand
last pebble
I am so god damn bad at vdh
strong forum
it doesnt do any more dmg than any other tank, but it brings chaos brand
strong forum
prot pally is still awesome, its just hpal is meta so its utility that it brings isnt as strong as last season
last pebble
I’m gonna try bear soon but I can’t play it until I get mage tower bear lmao
strong forum
bear is also awesome it seems, but since boomy is also super good, no reason to run bear
craggy pilot
well its literal S tier tank for current season
not according to pugs
waxen vale
Regarding that linked post he calls out tanks who double after the first bridge in VP . That would pain my soul not to double that
lucid sand
not to mention, pugs tend to unbind their kick buttons
craggy pilot
also love checking in here from time to time 🤣
last pebble
Bdk is the only tank that is t super great rn. Tanks overall are in a great spot
waxen vale
Does anyone not double pull that in vpp
strong forum
also love checking in here from time to time 🤣
this was last week
like
those websites
are all dogwater
craggy pilot
this was last week
yea i know
waxen vale
Ik its a dangerous pack but seems like a skill issue
craggy pilot
the Subcreation ways are really weird
craggy pilot
there was a big thread about it i remember
strong forum
pull all thanks in T tier
the only correct tierlist
frosty mist
what kind of keylevels your doing is all about your own confidence, willingness ...
My group is mainly boomkin and hunt with resto druide and we struggling to time +17 keys. I'm always close to their dps overall.
last pebble
Does anyone not double pull that in vpp
Tyr weeks I always do, if I have the kicks and stops I’ll do doubles on fort weeks
lucid sand
spelling is hard
strong forum
My group is mainly boomkin and hunt with resto druide and we struggling to time ...
sounds about right
last pebble
Your group sucks if they’re close to you in dps
Dps in VP should be at around 120-150k
waxen vale
Tyr weeks I always do, if I have the kicks and stops I’ll do doubles on fort wee...
Challenge is you don't know if your group uses what it has yet at that point in pugs
Ig is a good way to early brick a key int. That might not make it anyway
last pebble
Challenge is you don't know if your group uses what it has yet at that point in ...
In pugs I go by team comp and key level, if it’s actually bad players in a 17 I won’t double pull cause it can be a headache and you can time playing safe, but if I’m in a 22 with freaks I double pull cause I trust them
strong forum
this is how my neltharus pugs were ~2months ago when i was grinding for forgestorm
real fun
waxen vale
I refuse to take frost mages
Amen
strong forum
you aint gonna be picky in there lol
just send it
ah no thats screenshot is from VP
not neltharus
frosty mist
sounds about right
Might doing goods but I can't make big pull. I've to manage all the control (interrupt, stun, ..) and at some the point, I don't have anything available to control.
solemn elk
this was last week
Best tier list I’ve seen was the one on wowhead when patch came out
strong forum
idk i generally dont look at those posts
i just wanted to see the naowh and andy effect on subcreation
solemn elk
When talking about blood dk, they placed it last for M+ and the first sentence on the explanation was “blood dks can be the best tanks as well…”
strong forum
and low and behold
solemn elk
last pebble
They can they just are bad in infinitely scaling content
strong forum
you cant reliably reach key levels currently where the tanks survival is the limiting factor rn
even for BDKs
last pebble
They’re design isn’t good for hard hitting mobs and there’s a lotttttta big pulls this season
But they can still time 25’s
last pebble
They’re probably 1-2 key levels behind the highway
strong forum
cuz their dmg is ass when people play the wrong (meta) build
and 99% of BDK players play that wrong build
last pebble
Yeah everyone’s dropping bloodshot
waxen vale
Do you guys agree that warrior is the tamkiest tank in mplus rn
solemn elk
I mean, they’re bad at handling top keys imo cus at some point they just get clapped. But making only one tier list for m+ isn’t really useful imo
waxen vale
Yeah a prot paladin disc mod amd i argued last night about this
solemn elk
Id say for like 20s or something, with blood dk on a tyrannical you could just pull the whole dungeon and survive for hours
strong forum
Vdh with all brands up also might be tankier
freehold disagrees
even with brand + spikes VDH hates that dungeon
waxen vale
Id say for like 20s or something, with blood dk on a tyrannical you could just p...
My guilds main tank (a bdk) does this sort of thing its a toxic trait
strong forum
Id say for like 20s or something, with blood dk on a tyrannical you could just p...
well thats every tank
waxen vale
He fails to recognize that every trash pull this season kills dps
last pebble
If your dps is bad yes
waxen vale
Like every trash pull has unavoidable dps blasts
Overpulling is super penalized currently imp
waxen vale
Freehold duelists?
last pebble
And NL with pelters
waxen vale
Pelters ofc
olive bay
Ugh, fucking Ulda... The bleeds and that place are cancer
last pebble
I mean S1 wasn’t any different either, lotta toxic mobs throughout all those keys as well. Just the way it’s designed
waxen vale
Underrot has plenty
strong forum
pullsize is often limited by groups survival, not tank survival
crude notch
Group survivability is 100% the deciding factor on what the highest keys will be.
waxen vale
Yea thats what I'm saying
crude notch
this season
last pebble
Yeah I don’t disageee with that
waxen vale
I dont think that was this much the case in the past
strong forum
and there are alot of times where its also just inefficient to pull larger
simply because of logistical issues
strong forum
and mechanical prowess
waxen vale
Like SL u had some gigs pulls that didnt do anything to dps
strong forum
SL was extremely tank centric dmg intake
waxen vale
Nothing like that now
frosty mist
With detonate, my druide is screaming everytime i pull bigger 😑
crude notch
He obviously didn't mean EVERY SINGLE pack.
strong forum
and because of that tank centric dmg intake, tanking was super unpopular cuz nobody paid the price but the tank for a bad dps
last pebble
But next season will be the same
strong forum
now dps also pay the price
glacial skiff
For the blue dragons at the end of halls of infusion do you just die as a prot warrior, and by die i mean dstance and pray you don't?
waxen vale
Tbh tho almost every pack pn fort 20 and above can be dangerous to dps tho
glacial skiff
because the breath fucks.
strong forum
For the blue dragons at the end of halls of infusion do you just die as a prot w...
you can outrange the breath
last pebble
There will never NOT be a season where the limiting factor is group survivability
waxen vale
Vp anothr good example
crude notch
But next season will be the same
We don't know the dungeons for next season.
glacial skiff
REALLY? can you strafe or just backpedal kinda like vomit on 2nd boss in UR?
strong forum
rarely ever is group survival NOT the limiting factor
last pebble
rarely ever is group survival NOT the limiting factor
That’s what I’m saying
waxen vale
Thats why rally is so goated we will rise to glory with enhanced rally s3 😆
crude notch
You're actually just not saying anything Clutch
last pebble
Every season there will be toxic and one shotting mobs
crude notch
you're trying to both agree and disagree all at the same time
strong forum
i dont think we need to rise to glory
last pebble
No
waxen vale
Warr is fun but more dam would he more fun
last pebble
I don’t think your argument makes sense
crude notch
What argument?
waxen vale
I play warr cuz its more fun than my paladin
strong forum
Warr is fun but more dam would he more fun
we're already dmg king tho
crude notch
What argument do you think I'm making
toxic pewter
Thats why rally is so goated we will rise to glory with enhanced rally s3 😆
Nah augmentation evoker has a rally that lasts 12 seconds, 1.5 min cd, and 2 charges so most groups have another reason not to take a warrior
last pebble
Your saying group survivability is the limiting factor this season when that’s literally every season
waxen vale
We are damage king? Logs pls
glacial skiff
MORE fun?
strong forum
yeah im not super enjoying DF prot war
glacial skiff
prot warr is imo the best tank
strong forum
too easy
glacial skiff
well, having a higher ceiling to allow better play would be cool i guess
waxen vale
Even prot pal is ahead in one dungeon i think halls
glacial skiff
but besies that i don't think prot warr needs more buttons per se
crude notch
In the past tight timers have been a thing alongside group survivability
there is no tight timer this season
you either time by 4 minutes or you deplete because no one can live
strong forum
also we only have just received a dmg compensation buff, AND alot of prot warriors are really bad at pressing buttons
so its hard to get a fair comparison
but with the upcoming annulet nerf compensation i think we'll look pretty good
waxen vale
but with the upcoming annulet nerf compensation i think we'll look pretty good
Fair
Anything to get my warr out of the group finder doghouse
hardy snow
from what ranking is this screenshot?
strong forum
BH24 dmg ranking
waxen vale
24s
strong forum
i specifically looked at those logs because fenza only recently picked up prot warri
last pebble
Oh that’s BH?
strong forum
Of dh being op
its not tho
last pebble
I’m so sick of using annulet
hardy snow
r1 doesnt count cuz its a bear who got 13 PIs
I like those chinese players logs, dungs or raids, doesnt matter, there are always logs where some tank is pumped with tons of PIs for parses
strong forum
log whoring is nothing new
i was logwhoring a BH but i didnt get the PIs and we had a wipe
so i only did 105k dps
waxen vale
Their d am is at least, and i heard they are tankier than pal
strong forum
when i wanted to do 120k
strong forum
Their d am is at least, and i heard they are tankier than pal
its not that OP my guy
thats neltharus 24
crude notch
Their d am is at least, and i heard they are tankier than pal
tank survibaility literally doesn't matter this season.
crude notch
Well pick something and play it
waxen vale
Maybe not
crude notch
instead of swapping every 3 seconds
strong forum
for MDI its gonna be VDH cuz chaos brand
waxen vale
I don't lol
crude notch
Yeah VDH for MDI ez
crude notch
TGP FH should be interesting
strong forum
which will also be VDH cuz chaos brand, or bear if its after 10.1.5
crude notch
which will also be VDH cuz chaos brand, or bear if its after 10.1.5
The worst part is there's 0 chance 10.1.5 doesn't come out middle of TGP season.
toxic pewter
Shadow priest is actually most op spec right now
crude notch
Like it's coming in the middle of the season.
waxen frigate
The worst part is there's 0 chance 10.1.5 doesn't come out middle of TGP season.
if A-voker is allowed in TGP
it'll be a tragedy
strong forum
itll be such a lamo tournament
if 10.1.5 doesnt come out beforehand
itll be augvoker + mage + spriest meta
crude notch
It'll be fun because they've never touched a patch date because of an esport and they can't really move tgp finals up
toxic pewter
Holy pal for everyone
crude notch
So it's gonna be a shit show
strong forum
a good BDK can still do 100k overalls 🙂
hardy snow
It would be really interesting if begining of TGP would be played on 10.1, and finals on 10.1.5.
waxen frigate
ya but if i do 100k on a brew i feel like a failure
crude notch
It would be really interesting if begining of TGP would be played on 10.1, and f...
That's what will happen
Start of TGP will 100% be on 10.1 and finals will 100% be on 10.1.5
hardy snow
That's what will happen
are these dates confirmed by blizz anywhere? or its just assumption?
strong forum
are these dates confirmed by blizz anywhere? or its just assumption?
TGP dates are known
waxen frigate
or every other competitive game
crude notch
well actually it might all be on 10.1.5
waxen frigate
in dota you usually dont see new heroes for MONTHS
crude notch
As long as it's out end of month
waxen frigate
in tournaments
queen agate
hello guys !
crude notch
If 10.1.5 is out by July 5th, we good.
toxic pewter
When is tgp anyway
strong forum
july
crude notch
Proving Grounds is July 5th-10th.
queen agate
only war prot here
waxen frigate
thing is
queen agate
mama
hardy snow
so we would have to get 10.1.5. at end of july for interesting mix in TGP 
toxic pewter
I wonder if they push 10.1.5 to august now after the tgp may make most sense O_O
crude notch
Ain't no shot
strong forum
theyre 100% not gonna do anything about any timings
toxic pewter
Do they release stuff during things like this. Have they done it during mdi even before
strong forum
theyve done that yes
crude notch
The only thing they've ever done is move a AWC weekend one week because of a patch
Everything else
strong forum
where the group stage and the finals were during different patches
crude notch
has been mid season