tho in s1 hunter pulled 2 extra packs in rlp TWICE typed we cant do this and quit
#protection
graceful kite
toxic pewter
…
slim dove
slim dove
nah hit em with the ?
whenever someone stands in something and dies insta on my rdruid i just do a quick ?
crude notch
Nah "?" is too guiding
warm plinth
... comes across as very passive aggressive to me
crude notch
Like you hit them with the "?" it inherently implies you're questioning something
proper roost
? can backfire if the person you're flaming has no idea what they did wrong
proper roost
this is definitely a NA vs EU meta thing tho
passive aggressive flame works way better on NA
on EU you have to aggressively call people and/or their mother dogs and this is generally affectionate and a sign of bonding with your fellow puggers
slim dove
? can backfire if the person you're flaming has no idea what they did wrong
if you cleave avalanche with another melee and flop insta your getting hit with the ?
idc
rage away
graceful kite
i think its kinda dangerous to harass someone nowadays
crude notch
then they make fun of you for not knowing how to use the correct "your"
slim dove
how so
i drop my discord link whenever things get heated
usually shuts people up real quick
graceful kite
? can backfire if the person you're flaming has no idea what they did wrong
usually they dont
they can die to the most obvious shit
and still not know what hit them
crude notch
I don't actually do this btw, if someone has seen my twitter they know only wholesome vibes in my keys
proper roost
dwarf too op 😔
crude notch
😳
proper roost
lately i've been thinking i should talk more in high keys tho
so i can make friend with a cute tank i can play with
graceful kite
bfa alliance vibe
when you literally know every pug who is pushing
where they are from their name
proper roost
you learn peoples' names at like 24+
crude notch
didn't work
proper roost
i don't know anyone yet though
crude notch
i hate this server
proper roost
21-23 is elo hell
proper roost
idk how u can get into 22s and still don't know wtf mobs do!!
rustic shadow
What's the consensus on Heart of Thunder? I've heard damage is good. I'm guessing Mark of Dargrul is still better, anyone know how it stacks up against grapnel?
crude notch
There's people doing 22s that don't know there classes that they've been playing for X number of years, so I can easily see them not knowing mechanics from a dungeon that's been around less than that.
Grapnel better, Grapnel also has strength
sick sentinel
Currently rocking OCE and Scale
do you have a targeting circle with grapnel
or does it just send it at your targeted mob
cuz, i'd not like grapnle if its, you use it, you have to select a location,
i don't want none of that personally i want, it goes off on its own, or, it just goes off instantly and does its effect
craggy pilot
or does it just send it at your targeted mob
it just goes on the targeted mob
crude notch
basically just another shield charge
without the stun, before someone wants to "well actually" me
sick sentinel
heart of thunder crit hits for as much as my shield charge crits now
does way more damage overall
sick sentinel
yeah, im saying if its target at a location im hard avoiding getting that item
sick sentinel
thats cool
sick sentinel
14 lair 3 warrior was a mistake
craggy pilot
4 warriors should be the fix
sick sentinel
crude notch
IF YOU'RE NOT FIGHTING YOU'RE NOT EATING
The problem in that clip was definitely not the comp
sick sentinel
if i had a few extra seconds of seeing it early i could have done that fight take zero dmg
proper roost
LMAO
AS YOU TYPE
SLOWER PACE
Fuck
the comedic timing in that clip
is god tier
sick sentinel
mage party invisibility when
crude notch
10.1.5
crude notch
The same as shroud?
except 40 yards instead of 30 and 12 seconds instead of 15.
once again clarifying for the "well actually" crowd
sick sentinel
sounds cool eitherway, hunter could possibly do it too, but i think hunters already offter tons of shit to party
lust to say the very least of all
crude notch
yeah they offer their life
because they squishy af
I'm glad they gave mage more utility, they certainly were lacking in that department. 🙂
Next expansion they'll get brez hopefully
🙂
sick sentinel
hunter is my friend forever, MD + traps
sick sentinel
they dont? oh well
crude notch
no point taking it as BM
Only transfers the hunter's threat not pets and most of BM's threat comes from pets
sick sentinel
is it one of those beserker shout things you can only come at that talent 1 way
crude notch
nah
For BM there's literally no point.
For the others well threat is pretty irrelevant this expansion.
sick sentinel
maybe its good for MM, i guess FD does the same job is the logic
crude notch
Or they can just run with a tank that doesn't suck at keeping threat
and gain more survivability or throughput
Yeah looks like Survival gives up throughput to run it and the 5 MM hunters in the world don't care about the Kill Command talent obv
waxen vale
Yea I've found out to my even further distaste towards hunters jn mplus
Even my friend who is surv doesnt use it
They really need that baseline to bring anything meaningful
Sad
sick sentinel
isnt that like asking a warrior to talent into executr
waxen vale
They shouldn't need to talent it thats what I'm saying
They offer nothing but a headache for mplus as it is
At least they should get that baseline
sick sentinel
some variation on execute has to be baseline
waxen vale
Even the surv i run with who perfectly avoids dam and consistently had the lowest damage taken of anyone dies easily
And i have to babysit him when I'm prot pal
As warr i cant do anything lol
jagged gust
Even the surv i run with who perfectly avoids dam and consistently had the lowes...
Such a shame, I always try to main Surv when it's viable
but hunters just kinda feel like dog rn regardless of spec
waxen vale
Yea all things being equal id just never pick a hunter over a class with more survive ability
Sad but true
He even has sporecloak
Raiderio dont lie either
jagged gust
Yeah they're averaging something like the top hunters are still in the bottom 40% of classes rn or something like that?
With fucking zero survivablility and next to no group utility
Give surv back that talent that gave us 100% parry for 15 seconds lol
waxen vale
Yea hunter in general just isn't taken seriously unless it's dam is stupid like in bfa 8.3
Maybe in pvp idk
jagged gust
idgaf about pvp, I still remember the hunter deadzone days
that was enough bullshit for me in one lifetime
crude notch
isnt that like asking a warrior to talent into executr
not at all. it doesn't do damage.
jagged gust
He's saying it should be intrinsic to the class
jagged gust
makes more sense for rogue too tbh
jagged gust
Oh I meant as a baseline skill, rogues are just naturally tricky, so tricking a mob into thinking someone else did damage feels a lot more natural than a hunter going "HE DID IT" while 17 arrows stick out of a guys shield
sick sentinel
what about ai controls your character for a key or a raid, but you get no parse no loot or achievements kill credit maybe
crude notch
yogi hard cooking rn
jagged gust
fucking wat
crude notch
@warm plinth @daring marlin yogi cooking
warm plinth
What else is new
crude notch
TRUE
sick sentinel
i dunno, you guys wouldnt want to watch your character ai tank a 20
crude notch
If I want to watch a dummy tank a 20 i'll just turn on dorki
((For legal purposes this was a joke, don't go crying))
sick sentinel
maybe you fould parse it, but its listed as done by ai
jagged gust
npcraft
sick sentinel
so that way we see the choices it makes.
waxen vale
From a balance perspective rogues are always useful enough to make it onto top mplus, and have tons of other utility. Hunters just so have nothing at least they could have MD for free(its not even important for a really good tank anyway)
jagged gust
It would probably walk into lava 1500 times before it figured out how not to die the first 30 seconds of a fight
sick sentinel
next april fools i want to see that, ai team at start or end of mdi
jagged gust
From a balance perspective rogues are always useful enough to make it onto top m...
I cant speak for current content but having to MD onto the tank to LOS casters was pretty pivotal occasionally back in days yonder
Also Mding onto the rogue to see if they could vanish before the boss killed them was always funny when our raids were going for too long
crude notch
Ain't no one talking about classic
jagged gust
yeah but that's where the class utility is stuck
jagged gust
there'd need to be an entire paradigm shift for their utility to come back into vogue
crude notch
Don't lie you just like using paradigm because it's fun to say
sick sentinel
all i mean by the ai comment is like, im pretty sure "+17 hoi survival hunter pov" key videos that are super narrow and specific d9nt or hardly exist
and if you dont do it to learn it, you have to see it or be told
toxic pewter
A good hunter or good rogue is very highly respected by me
velvet knot
I've been farming vortex and nelth lair for both trinkets and nothing x.x
I've done each one atleast 20 times on a 17 this week
toxic pewter
Yea hunter in general just isn't taken seriously unless it's dam is stupid like ...
I had a survival hunter straight blast in a freehold I did. It was actually insane how much damage that guy did
I think a good survival hunter can hang with the best of em even right now
crude notch
Yeah their 4p gives them a solid 20% dps gain
jagged gust
when do you guys lust in nel?
velvet knot
I lust first pull and pull everything usually.
hearty plover
hey guys, I only see things talk about shadowflame patch and belt for ST, what does prot want for M+ embelishments?
toxic pewter
Double shadowflame basically but check pins
dusky canopy
Dang boys the update premade group filters pushed is nice!
proper roost
Dang boys the update premade group filters pushed is nice!
yeah it's REALLY nice
crude notch
you're really nice
toxic pewter
Takes one to know one
daring marlin
jagged gust
Don't lie you just like using paradigm because it's fun to say
how dare you so accurately call me out like that 😅
dusky canopy
gloomy hazel
I'm sure I'm missing something here. How's the ring not good for m+? I did a 20 bracken earlier and it did 6.6% of my overall and I parsed a 97. Is a high haste/crit ring really going to allow for more than a 6.6% increase in dps?
dusky canopy
the stats can provide more dps in higher target counts
for me when i sim my haste/crit ring against annulet the stat ring starts to win around 6 targets
its stat dependant
gloomy hazel
But is that pulling 6 targets the whole time?
dusky canopy
correct
gloomy hazel
So you'd actually have to pull like 12 targets during trash pulls to average it out when you're pulling 1 target against the boss.
Yeah?
dusky canopy
Well thats sorta napkin math its not exactly a 1:1 like that
the majority of the key is spent in multi target
specially on fort weeks
You could look at it as optomizing boss damage or add damage
gloomy hazel
I guess that's a good point
undone verge
make a ring cause come 10.1.5 onyx sucks
gloomy hazel
I mean I have a ring, but it's haste mastery so it's not simming better. And my other ring is haste crit. 2nd hero ring I have is high mastery low vers. I've had really bad ring RNG drops for me.
dusky canopy
you want ring from freehold
gloomy hazel
that's the one I'm wearing, but it's champion level
dusky canopy
or you could also craft a ring
gloomy hazel
so only 437 right now
I just crafted bracers because mine were 424 while I was 440 ilevel lol
but yeah I guess ring is next in line
dusky canopy
yeah 441ish is when it starts to take over currently according to nome running sims with his gear
but in 10.1.5 its garbo
you wont use it
at all
dusky canopy
you could plug in droptomizer
then youd know what ring to target
for your specific gear
or just feely craft it and go for the ring you think sounds good
like i would go for a crit haste ring regardless of what a droptomizer sim would suggest
gloomy hazel
sucks I have forgemaster from neltharus, both trinkets from nelth's lair, ring from vortex, ring from uldaman, and hero ring from freehold lol
dusky canopy
I wouldnt sweat it to much, run whatever the sim says is best currently and blast
for keys
patchwerk 5t 1.5m no lust
run what it tells you
no buffs either except your own
gloomy hazel
another question, isn't spellblock good in halls basically the entire rest of the dungeon after 2nd boss?
dusky canopy
no because you can just strafe out of the dragon breath
nothing else would warrant spellblock
dusky canopy
do you feel like you would die otherwise?
gloomy hazel
me, no, the rest of the group because the healer is also trying to keep me up, yes.
dusky canopy
then sure you could run it
you take a large passive rage gen loss to run it but you can run it
restive scroll
no because you can just strafe out of the dragon breath
I thought it was targeted and you had to outrange it,
Can you really just straf it? ._.
dusky canopy
yep when it starts to que its breath run away from it
idk the exact range but iirc sense said you can even S key it
LOL
restive scroll
Yes so outrange.
Doesn't straf mean go on the side?
restive scroll
idk the exact range but iirc sense said you can even S key it
So far i've been looking at the animation tbh, so i did 10y~
dusky canopy
well yes it does but more or less you want to strafe run away from it unless you can time holding backpedal perfectly
restive scroll
well yes it does but more or less you want to strafe run away from it unless you...
Yes of course, i get it
dusky canopy
you cannot "side step" the breath if thats what youre thinking becuase it will trace your movements
you have to range it as you said
dusky canopy
cheers
prisma crane
what level can we start timewalking?
toxic pewter
60 this time around based on what I heard recently
prisma crane
there an ilvl req? i dont even see it in the list now that i hit 60
could have sworn it used to be 50
toxic pewter
Interesting
strong gust
like ilvl 200
prisma crane
would be nice if that showed up in game
strong gust
indeed
prisma crane
they already have the tech lol, just put it in the LFG and grey it out w/ ilvl req
last pebble
is it worth using 441 forgestorm over 447 crafted wep? 441 sims way higher in ST but lower in Aoe so not sure. Alos the sims say wafting devotion is higher than sophic as well
well actually frozen devotion is the highest
crude notch
Everything you've said makes sense
crude notch
is it worth using 441 forgestorm over 447 crafted wep? 441 sims way higher in ST...
So ultimately that's up to you to choose what to do based on the information you have been given.
last pebble
yeah but what happens if im unable to think for myself
lmao
im gonna go with 441 forgestorm but frozen devotion is definitely noob bait right? I am pushing 22-23;s
crude notch
Some people have been going away from forgestorm in keys because of it being too unpredictable. Sometimes it can be 2% of your damage sometimes it'll be 7% of your damage.
It's not bait it's accurate, it's also not like you're gonna rely on a random stat proc defensively. If it were me and it was simming within 1 or 2% of each other I'd go with one of the stat ones.
crude notch
be affable?
crude notch
I had a dk earlier that literally had two lines of text macro'd to every ability that was 30s CD or longer
proper roost
actually unironically thinking about just instaleaving groups with people who have this
or like guild groups
are a huge coinflip
proper roost
i will remember to not tilt tomorrow when I try again
tilt is play bad
thank you for your advice
jagged gust
cutie wootie with some nommy wommies in your tummy wummy :3
crude notch
that's enough of that
waxen vale
i just kind of know warrior like haste
but i never eally got a clear reccomendation for how much is good
i been really into crit though
crude notch
more is gooder
crude notch
Then don't ask
waxen vale
more vers more dam
proper roost
then equip whatever you want lol
waxen vale
but im not askign about that
crude notch
You are though
waxen vale
like how much haste is good for rotation
proper roost
you know the answer, you're literally saying it
crude notch
You asked if you have too much crit and too little haste
crude notch
Then play better?
waxen vale
but how much haste is like the right amount for optimal play
crude notch
We're telling you, you're way too worried about stats and not worried enough about playing correctly
proper roost
man
i think the problem with other tanks is that nothing feels as viscerally good as thunder clap
i should try out vdh again, i remember VDH feeling pretty nice
waxen vale
i disagree
shield charge feels better
if it was an aoe stun WOOOOOHeeeEE
i think it should be
small radius but yea
vdh looks viscerally satisfying too
havnt rly tried
proper roost
Yeah sure roar/shield charge/thunder clap all have this bassy sound effect that make them all very satisfying to press
waxen vale
yea i just dont really like being a dark iron for it lmao
proper roost
In comparison to say thrash which is like whirlwind visuals
proper roost
Yeah pretty sure I quit playing my monk because DID taunt yell was unlistenable
waxen vale
h e just sounds like an angry fat bastard from austin powers
like a zooted scottsman
i also dont like being so short
kind of weird for cam angles
waxen vale
In comparison to say thrash which is like whirlwind visuals
yea thrash is weird some red circles just spin aroundu. bear visuals def need some major work
proper roost
it's worse on female DID
crude notch
gnome
lime urchin
this isn even a debate, panda all day every day
crude notch
Yeah then you're perpetually screwed with a horrible mog.
lime urchin
the golden king looks best on thick panda!
tawdry tiger
Hey, folks! I'm on my way to time 21-22 Uldaman this week, and I have an issue with the Vicious Basilisk (https://www.wowhead.com/npc=184023/vicious-basilisk) and its Chomp (https://www.wowhead.com/spell=369828/chomp). Could you explain to me please how you survive these chomp stacks? Are you kiting them the all time?
strong forum
a) dwarf
b) CC
c) kiting
or well, dwarf should be C
your last option should be changing your race
tawdry tiger
so, mostly it depends on the team on how they support tank to tackle them, correct?
strong forum
thats more often than not the answer to most dangerous shit yeah
its rare cases like Neltharus Guards and the Hulks in NL where theyre un-cc-able and fuck up your tank where your group cant really help you
tawdry tiger
yes, in Neltharus and NL it is possible to survive using def cooldowns, but IMO in Uldaman it becomes extremely hard, thanks for sharing 🤝
strong forum
yeah its our hardest dungeon
with only 50% being physical dmg in that key and the rest being magical its not so favourable for our mitigation profile
while other keys are 85-95% physical
tawdry tiger
true, but IMO the hardest part to pass through these bloody basiliscs
tawdry tiger
1 + 3 + 2 + 2 before the totem boss
1 in the 1st pull (can be uncounted), 3 in the 2nd pull, 2 in the 3rd one, and 2 more in the 4th pull (right before totem boss)
vague swift
you can skip the 3 pack by just pulling G6 instead
crude notch
Literally only Freehold is above 80% melee. Although I guess technically you said physical
I'll see myself out.
dense verge
So i got pocket Anvil, i take it, fairly decent in M+?
Also do i need a fancy macro to bind the on use effect to SS?
green bronze
i think you are in a wrong chat
uneven mason
☝️
green bronze
does it work for prot?
uneven mason
It more than works
green bronze
doesnt even show in my adventure guide when i set spec to prot
uneven mason
We use DPS trinkets almost exclusively
green bronze
but it buffs mortal strike, what does it do to prot?
green bronze
damn, just checked, it really buffs SS, why does it not show up for prot in adventure guide, wtf)
all this time i thought it was useless for prot
uneven mason
Because it's a DPS trinket
dense verge
i think you are in a wrong chat
I was worried for a sec
green bronze
is there a tier list for prot warr trinkets?
crude notch
Nome goes over trinkets in pins
dense verge
Im not great at making macros would any kind soul have one to macro it to SS?
green bronze
#showtooltip Shield Slam
/use 14
/cast Shield Slam
should work, set use 15 if your anvil is in second trinket slot
dense verge
Thanks bud
crude notch
yw bud
kind urchin
Trinkets are 13 and 14
sick sentinel
so if i pull 8 in lair, thats the bog standard pull and dps dying to cave in is literal skill isue?
seems like, to me, like that is the pull, or one of them, that causes immense amountss of dmg/death
daring marlin
so if i pull 8 in lair, thats the bog standard pull and dps dying to cave in is ...
MFs need to sidestep, yes
sick sentinel
@daring marlin ran 14 lair last night this is what happened
and then we got to the mdt screen shot posted just now and we wiped again and rip key
signal perch
When do I replace annulet? I have 2 441 rings with haste/crit should I replace or keep?
I read the pinned message but I am not sure
warm girder
so if i pull 8 in lair, thats the bog standard pull and dps dying to cave in is ...
Depending on how much my pug fcks up side stepping on earlier pulls, I pull the pat into the single guy on the lower right side of your screen.
Less efficient for sure but also safer.
warm girder
When do I replace annulet? I have 2 441 rings with haste/crit should I replace o...
Once patch 10.1.5 hits 🙃
green bronze
timer is pretty loose in lair, i do single pulls even in <20
green bronze
<@145702969990578178> ran 14 lair last night this is what happened
if your ilvl 430 or higher, i would suggest go straight for 19-20s, 12-18 keys are very sketchy and ppl are very bad
20 is oftentimes easier then 15)
cinder storm
if your ilvl 430 or higher, i would suggest go straight for 19-20s, 12-18 keys a...
Yogi needs to be 460
graceful kite
if your ilvl 430 or higher, i would suggest go straight for 19-20s, 12-18 keys a...
youre new to yogi
waxen vale
20s are a big tank check this week
Esp. Since good healers are so rare and unlikely to join lo io groups
Currently
And dont expext many dps in the 2300 to 2600 range who may have 20s to help out too too much with critical interruots and stuns
Spriests have vampric embrace off GcD which is both struggling heal and tank enabling tho
If they use it
waxen vale
It doesn't help but its just dam
Right? I still havent noticed 4 set dam so idk even how much it is
crude notch
Bro
waxen vale
Obviously dam is good me like zugbig dam
But at this point dps should carry tank dam in 20s
Ok 5%dr whatever
unkempt rover
do we still wear annuletÉ
twin bramble
so if i pull 8 in lair, thats the bog standard pull and dps dying to cave in is ...
I gave up trying to save dps from themselves here. NL timer is so free I just single pull the 4 groups and bring in the bottom right guy and cave guy whenever it makes sense.
Works like a charm
Only pull im still struggling with are the 4 in the lake. Need dps to fish for me usually
waxen vale
Yeah i do that 1 by himself or pull in pat as hes dying
Then the fire guy by itself until fire is dead and pull that onto another one if I'm feeling crazy
sick sentinel
Geode dies first EVERY time for me and I feel most sane players
Is like a pain elemental from doom, longer its alive the more chaos it creates
twin bramble
Yeah. Once geode dies I usually pull in the two stranglers.
But the 4 main packs by themselves.
The 30 s you lose on it is more efficient than the inevitable dps wipe trying to group 2 packs
sick sentinel
Tough to find a good spot to put them given he has a knock back and party wipe cleave
twin bramble
Not just just sitting in one spot smashing buttons is a lot to ask from dps
But I think NL is the easiest dungeon this week. Ulda and HoI slapping me.
plush tendon
But I think NL is the easiest dungeon this week. Ulda and HoI slapping me.
UR wants a word 😛
Nathan's liar is hard, but not on the tank
dps just... die to throws and other shit
jagged wind
Anyone have tips for the Mythic forgotten fight as tank, feels like the dot tears through my everything and I can’t always cleanse when I’d like too
sick sentinel
im surprised freehold isnt the easiest one
pastel sleet
For dps, spore cloak makes NL co from b tier to A tier in my opinion.
As soon as my guildies started running Sporecloak, our NL runs got soooo much cleaner
Those damned pelters
Timer so free, that everyone going defensive safe bet is mega worth
gloomy hazel
does it help your chances any more/less for trinkets if you roll as arms vs fury? Does one of them have a slightly smaller loot table?
strong forum
Arms can only loot 2h weapon
Fury can loot 1h and 2h, therefor larger loot table
chrome falcon
plush tendon
shouldve just been "when you take a hit that would kill you, go to 30% health, activate SW, and increase healing taken by 100%' or something
jagged pier
literally no place where its good like it would be okay for things like Rashok but if it worked correctly u have to be under 30% for it to trigger so u would die anyway XD but its porcs at like 80% so it does actually save ppl (not that its actually needed)
blazing condor
dratnos takes 
plush tendon
they basically gave every tank a cheat of varying strength: DK Purg, Pal Guardian, Druid Instincts, DH Meta.... just some are really good and ez to get and others not so much
plush tendon
even if it was... I dont got the talent points for that!
strong forum
people have given up better talents to get worse ones
the most genius move ive seen today was
removed sidearm (~1.5% loss) to get pain and gain tiny defensive gain
and removed enduring defense (big defensive loss) to get bloodborne (1.5% dps gain)
strong forum
that was the most 5head move ive seen today
all you did was to get weaker defensively
with that 30iq move
plush tendon
i kind of wish that ravager talents were a bit better
would be cool to have hurricane talent for it like fury and arms have
jagged gust
I kind of wish I didn't have to spend 3 points on Shield Charge
strong forum
3?
jagged gust
yeah but imagine if they were the same effects, but the talents were merged 😮
strong forum
oh yeah
well those talents are all super loaded
reprisal lets us obtain 100% block uptime + good rage income
battering ram increases 4pc value, increases rage gen and is HUGE for single target dps and just feels good
jagged gust
Actually come to think of it, even if I had the spare talent points, there's very little I could do with them lol
Enduring Alactrity I guess?
strong forum
that one is actually better in the long run than bloodborne for example
but where the fuck do you get the points for it
strong forum
enduring alacrity is 5% armor, 5% stam and 1% haste
plush tendon
gotta open the talent sheet
yea, the other one is the giga chad one
focused vigor
plush tendon
the 5% strength might be a bit strong compared to the 5% stam XD
strong forum
its insane
jagged gust
Honestly I had insomnia again last night, was brain tired tho, specced into EA over VO so I didn't have to dedicate the brainpower to remembering to stance swap >.>
strong forum
no its true cuz both have armor
plush tendon
though, it is always fun to see the health number go up
strong forum
it is, and we double dip with health increase cuz indom and IP
but 5% str is a tad bit more useful
just a tad
plush tendon
also, damage
nocturne spindle
just drop shockwave and endurance training for double cruel strikes
DAMAGE
who needs stops or utility
thats a healer problem
strong forum
well in a coordinated group, or if the key is low enough and/or just dont need shockwave
you get dragon roar + 2nd cruel strikes yes
plush tendon
wait, wouldnt you take uproar and 1 cruel strike?
jagged gust
oh we talking raid not mythic?
strong forum
no, m+
waxen vale
I can see certain keys showkwave isnt crucial
plush tendon
I can see certain keys showkwave isnt crucial
Neths lair comes to mind tbh
strong forum
good call
jagged gust
oh dang, I don't even run cruel strike, I cant imagine not having shockwave
I even run menace because moar cc is moar
waxen vale
Yeah nelth lair on tyran for sure honestly
jagged gust
plus fear is the fucking worst
waxen vale
Its not likepelters lose much dam from one shocl
jagged gust
sorry flee, not fear*
sick sentinel
cuz..... it .... CONTROLS......... the CROWD......
strong forum
the flee instantly breaks anyway
sick sentinel
INT-ING shout is CHAOS
strong forum
so all youre doing is wasting a talent point
sick sentinel
send them flying
jagged gust
I mean, there's a ton of waste-able slots around that tier, where else does it go? pain&gain? Sidearm? Intervene?
all easily tradeable imo
sick sentinel
if it was a choice tallent between int shout and menacer, i'd take menacer every single time
strong forum
sidearm
waxen vale
Int shout op
Very rarely goes wrong for me
Maybe bracken
If dps is aoeing it just insta breaks
sick sentinel
its great in a vacuum
you got a shit load of adds spawn in on the boss and they just need a basic CC,
doesn't quite work that way when your trying to solo pull a pack out of room with 3 packs
urban portal
Side arm is op
urban portal
doesn't quite work that way when your trying to solo pull a pack out of room wi...
That’s not how int shout works but ok
strong forum
sidearm is literally free 1.5% dps increase
cinder nova
going for menace is such a yogi move tbh
agile pumice
Int shout being target capped upsets me so much
strong forum
yeah
sick sentinel
menace is pretty good
sand hound
Is the wowhead m+ spec a good all around one? Or is it out dated?
Im new to tanking and don’t have the knowledge yet of what to take at which dungeon.
jagged gust
I prefer titanic throw over pain&gain but it's pretty much the meta build as far as Im aware
strong forum
pain and gain in general is just very much underwhelming
doesnt do alot
i pretty much never run it
proper roost
menace is pretty decent since it's uncapped unlike fear, just costs a bit
jagged gust
+1 for menace
proper roost
I mean I don't really advocate taking it
Just that if you do it is ok
1.5 min aoe stop is really mediocre given that shockwave exists
and also fear already does that on sub 6 target count
strong forum
where does it say it turns intim shout uncapped
ah nvm i see now
it will knockback "all enemies except primary target"
blazing condor
900 cpm
cinder nova
That'd be pretty wild ngl
blazing condor
cinder nova
Maybe they could replace BSV with it lol
Didn't they say that BSV's useless jank was working as intended?
unkempt cosmos
I'm a bit confused whether I should trust the sim (I'm using askmrrobot) vs going towards what sites like murlok.io or wowhead say. They differ in e.g. socketed gems (energized Ysemerald vs puisant Nozodroite) or items
Sim also often suggests equipping lower ilevel gear to get a dps increase?
strong forum
dont use AMR
strong forum
AMRs only decent use is as a library on how some mechanic formulas work
but for simming, you wanna use raidbots
unkempt cosmos
so the sims are just worse?
chilly brook
Didn't they say that BSV's useless jank was working as intended?
Idk I just miss the feeling of being on crack and always pulling to upkeep the buff
strong forum
yeah okay wtf is this dogshit
unkempt cosmos
They aggregate stats from the leaderboards
https://murlok.io/warrior/protection/mm+#enchantments
strong forum
big fucking trap
unkempt cosmos
ok 😄
strong forum
bro this site
proper roost
they did it!
unkempt cosmos
it looks like it counts the number of uses
strong forum
was defaulted to 3v3
yeah but still
this is just subcreation with a laggy overlay
(both are bad)
chilly brook
TAKES 1 PERSON
BuT tHeYrE tOp FiFtY tHeY kNoW bEtTeR tHaN wE dO
strong forum
all this shows is a fancy laggy overlay of what is an popular item
unkempt cosmos
so do you guys use raidbots for all the upgrades etc?
strong forum
pmuch
sim with the correct options enabled according to what situation youre in
and simply follow the stat prio of ilvl >> haste > crit >=vers > mastery
chilly brook
You’re almost always never going to die because of not equipping the “right” tanking items
Just equip ilvl
unkempt cosmos
basically disregard guides wrt gear and BIS or whatever
chilly brook
And sim for dam
strong forum
most guides, especially dumb shit like subcreation and murlok.io arent done by a person who knows their shit
chilly brook
Basically the only time you’d equip something for survival it would be something like a trinket
strong forum
those websites are just automated shit sorted by popularity
chilly brook
And you’re almost never in a situation where those make a difference
Especially since you have something better than a defensive trinket that no other tank has
Defensive stance
Just use it as the “I need to press something for this pull” button
Then pop out when the damage has passed
unkempt cosmos
the situation I usually find myself in is that I e.g. drop a new trinket that is one upgrade below my current trinket level. Do I just ignore it due to ilevel then? It might potentially be better if I bring it up to the same ilevel
strong forum
trinkets are the exception of the rule
unkempt cosmos
ok so for gear just ignore, but trinkets might have a useful effect?
chilly brook
Trinkets just sim it
strong forum
yeah you can just sim them aswell
chilly brook
Just understand what they do
cinder nova
I wonder what'll happen if I start reporting BSV bugs every day.
chilly brook
I.e. no real reason to use a single target focused trinket over an aoe one in m+ unless your aoe one is just garbage ilvl
strong forum
has been reported directly to blizz several times
not just public forum shit
at some point we have to assume its intended
chilly brook
I assume you’re intended
cinder nova
Then it's terrible design, flat-out.
chilly brook
unkempt cosmos
thanks @chilly brook @strong forum for the help!
chilly brook
sick sentinel
god i hope there is an already made set piece chest in my vault this week
real minnow
Is it only me, or is it impossible to charge the last trash (with dragon) before final boss in neltharus?
strong forum
ive not noticed such things
sick sentinel
crystal spikes is they stood in the wall as it came up ?
jagged gust
maybe your latency is too high?
The dragon has a big body but his "charge distance" is kind of centralized, so it kind of reduces the viable range in which you can charge, so if your latency is too high the system may not register you being in the right proximity while approaching
jagged pier
he means the bird
cinder nova
Oh, I was like ???? HAVE I MISSED SOMETHING
I wonder how good of a raid CD Rally would be if it gave an HP bump and a single IP to every raid member
craggy pilot
do i go Spell Block in Uldaman for the Runic Protector Slam ability? 🤔
strong forum
I wonder how good of a raid CD Rally would be if it gave an HP bump and a single...
rally is already one of the best raid CDs tho
tame coyote
Is it only me, or is it impossible to charge the last trash (with dragon) before...
Yeah its something with the whole pack, charge goes off and I’m in combat with em but I dont move. Resorted to pulling them with ravager
cinder nova
rally is already one of the best raid CDs tho
ocean yoke
The improved rally giving an ip instead of the other bonuses would be pretty spicy
cinder nova
Maybe I'm huffing something, but having an extra 100-120K HP isn't bad, but DR-related raid CDs seem like they can probably prevent far more.
Or maybe I'm just sleeping on it.
I'mma still use it regardless, but it's never felt or appeared impactful.
waxen vale
do i go Spell Block in Uldaman for the Runic Protector Slam ability? 🤔
Second this question i got absolutely owned by that thing
Multiple times
ocean yoke
I think it would probably be wildly op tbh, might depend on how much it mitigates compared to other raid wide drs like AM though
waxen vale
Is it reflectable?
craggy pilot
Second this question i got absolutely owned by that thing
im doing Festering Splinter for it now, but idk if thats gonna be enough
will see i guess
craggy pilot
Is it reflectable?
no, but Blockable (with Spell Block)
waxen vale
I used multiple things
Got 1 shot once
My block may not have been up yet or something it was on gathet
But even overlapping things it was terrible
strong forum
Maybe I'm huffing something, but having an extra 100-120K HP isn't bad, but DR-r...
a 20% HP increase has the same effect as a 20% DR
cinder nova
I feel like that's not quite the whole picture? If you have constant damage during a 20% DR it can eclipse the HP granted by the 20%.
If it's one big raid slap, yeah I can see that.
strong forum
only if your healers dont heal
you get 20% more time before somebody dies
unless ofc, rally will fade before that event is over
toxic pewter
is stamina considered DR stat or is that just incorrect thinking
cinder nova
It's a survivability stat.
waxen vale
only if your healers dont heal
Lets not assume that doenst happen lately
cinder nova
DR is DR.
strong forum
effectively its the same as DR
toxic pewter
err
Ok
Like is using it when people almost dying
have any effect on how to think of it
strong forum
in those moments its better than a DR
toxic pewter
Ok
strong forum
cuz in those moments it functions as a heal
cinder nova
You definitely want to try and be using it in anticipation of big group damage, though.
strong forum
yeah
ocean yoke
If you use it before damage the rally hp is taking the damage instead
cinder nova
If your rally isn't assigned on a fixed mechanic then yeah just send it to save someone(s)
strong forum
i often times, if its not elsehwere planned, use it as a CD to prevent a death
waxen vale
Na but u keep therally hp after right
strong forum
u dont
waxen vale
Aww ok
strong forum
LS is a heal, rally is a temporary HP increase
waxen vale
So u do want to do it before something that scales with hp percentage
strong forum
if you dont get a single point of healing, you will fall down to 1hp after it ends
waxen vale
I always use in anticipation
strong forum
rally itself cant kill you, but it will remove those 20% HP it granted afterwards
if youre full HP youre full HP, that wont change
waxen vale
Hmm tough
strong forum
if youre below 20% hp, youll end up at 1hp
itll keep you at the same % as you were when it fell off, unless sub 20%
toxic pewter
ya apparently thats the toughest boss for prot warrs these days
ocean yoke
make a blood dk and prot pally do the hard parts
covert topaz
What are the easy parts 😄
we are 3 tanking with bdk and pally
but pallas doing bombs
ebon rock
i wanna try warrior tanking but my main is arms so my stats are really off for it, i have like 34% crit 28% haste 20% mastery and 4% versatility, will i be trolling mid keys (like 10-17) with so little vers?
covert topaz
youll be fine
main tinsel
you will be fine but u do lots of dmgs 😄
covert topaz
youll be taking into fray so your haste will be high af aswell
ebon rock
epic tysm
daring marlin
i wanna try warrior tanking but my main is arms so my stats are really off for i...
You could tank 20+ with ease assuming your ilvl is reasonable.
ebon rock
think im only at 425 currently with random zaralek sword and shield equipped
good to know though thank you!
thorn parcel
anyone know what the soft cap is on vers?
sick sentinel
ret with LFR grapnel got the mark
thorn parcel
Vrers is trash as Prot?
warm plinth
It's not a bad but it's not something you aim for either.
Not a bad stat*
Vers stacking is a meme
sick sentinel
there is a huge war going on between mastery boys, versa nerds and crit gang
warm plinth
No there's not
thorn parcel
and thats what i am tryingf to understand
warm plinth
There's no such thing as a mastery boy in the first place
sick sentinel
80% passive block, sure, i'll take that
vital arch
can I get a zug zug in chat?
thorn parcel
!
warm plinth
This is the gist of it. Most of our secondaries are very close together for damage (haste/crit/vers). Haste is our strongest defensive stat and generally makes the spec fun/comfortable to play so we focus on that after ilevel. Crit and vers are generally pretty close together for damage but you get more per stat for crit (and very little DR per point of vers). Hence you generally focus on Haste and crit, without actively avoiding vers or mastery.
sick sentinel
can that thing crit
if that effect can never cirt i might stop farming it
i could craft neck, re-craft re-gem crit, id get like 1200 stat change
or i could do cloak, or legs maybe second ring, for haste versa
warm plinth
Yogi, if I learned one thing about you, it's that you're going to do what you're going to do. So you live your best life
covert topaz
So any tips on zscarn or am i resided to just want to kms
all the vids you get when you type "prot warr szcarn" its the cheese
warm plinth
You don't need to kill yourself. Zskarn will do it for you
toxic pewter
Just wait until blizzard makes spell block work like paladin's 'spell' blocking (they have a chance to actually block all damage over time effects including bleeds, LOL)
sick sentinel
meh i'd be fine with spell block also has a passive whatever% chance to block spell
toxic pewter
rather it just be how it is now but actually works in parity with how the other shield tank blocks spells and periodic damaging effects
broken juniper
What are the best weapon enchants for Raid (mythic prog) and/or Mythic +?
sick sentinel
sophic is the only one to take far as i understand it
900 str proc, i used to use wafting, now sophic
sleek current
Shadowflame Wreathe
undone verge
why does forgotten experiments suck so much
sleek current
Magic Damage
urban portal
Just wait until blizzard makes spell block work like paladin's 'spell' blocking ...
they dont block bleeds
i asekd over there
and the DOT block is part of their mastery
toxic pewter
yah because their old spell block talent was effectively shoved into their mastery
undone verge
the tank dmg is also just overtuned
toxic pewter
I am pretty sure it blocks bleeds...
"While inside your Consecration, your damage taken is reduced by 0.0% and you have a chance equal to your block chance to reduce your damage taken from harmful periodic effects"
bleed is a harmful period effect
undone verge
its tuned around playing perfectly and clearing perfect but then you run into slight hiccups where both tanks dodge breath opposite ways
jagged gust
yah because their old spell block talent was effectively shoved into their maste...
Ive been thinking that's exactly what our mastery needs to do
urban portal
bleed is a harmful period effect
yes but bleed is specifically excluded
no way to know that
sleek current
its tuned around playing perfectly and clearing perfect but then you run into sl...
Positioning has never been my issue. Bleeding out of my arsehole has always been the problem. I expect I'll be in less pain come Monday when my Warlocks actually start using Curse of Weakness. 😂
urban portal
toxic pewter
hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
warm plinth
The blocking periodic effects thing was added because when spell block was added, they changed their holy shield to work like spell block. So the dots thing was kinda compensation for that. But since bleeds aren't magic, it doesn't work on them.
urban portal
yeah the reading definitely makes you think it blocks
toxic pewter
I will agree with you guys but i am going to search logs
and fair enough I am probably wrong
sick sentinel
warm plinth
Beacon will be in my vault... I'm sure of it. 👀
toxic pewter
Ok after viewing various bleeds and their tick damage, it is true apparently prot pal mastery does not have a chance to dr bleeds. The wording on the mastery was making me think that it was the case. I stand correct and will cease saying otherwise.
sleek current
<:copium:839076283467431956>
waxen vale
Paladin mastery drs existing bleeds
I think maybe that wording refers to chance to block incoming effects
Same way shield wall is a dr to existing bleeds right
hardy snow
perfect 
sick sentinel
yeah buddy nice 10% haste + lust kappa /s off
waxen vale
Just watched nextback pull the entire chargrath wing on a 25
Including the 4 in boss room
The part that was most impressive to me is that he could actually gather it and get aggro
Like wtf
One mob just gets a mind of its own and starts meleeing dps no matter what i do with a quarter of that mob mass
jagged pier
i mean thats the usual pull
cause u just chains it down
and of course he wont loose it hes in a group that know hes doing it
so wont hit mobs
wet fable
Lariat still our go to neck?
jagged gust
was it ever?
waxen vale
Na man u cant tell me that every mob in that entire wing is normal lol
Clips or it didnt happen
On a 25?
Even on fort 20 i think thats a pretty epic pull
jagged pier
I mean noawh and stuff were doing it like last week
And thats where the strat came from
Ever 20 nels ive done this week ive been expected to do it
jagged pier
was it ever?
Yes S1
waxen vale
I used to do something like that and they calld me crazy and ragequit when they couldn't avoid damage
Now its expected lol
jagged pier
Lariat still our go to neck?
No
Yep
Because top ppl are doing it so now of course u need to do it in your 20 where it doesnt matter
Or thats what the pugs tell me anyway
jagged gust
Because top ppl are doing it so now of course u need to do it in your 20 where i...
pug mentality, gotta love it
waxen vale
That's why i fucking love neltharus so much. Cuz you can do that shit
Theres like 1 mob ever that even needs to be kicked
Even in a giga pull
Yet somehow it gets missed in pugs 😆
And they blame u for over pulling
jagged gust
from my experience 14 and under kick isn't even on their hotbars 80% of the time
then they spend the next 6 levels learning how to use it
But legit I love Nel, I probably have 5x the runs over every other dungeon this season
waxen vale
One thing i haven't gotten the balls for yet is the two top of stairs packs after charg with the patrol
There you would have 2 or 3 irontorch far beyond typical pug capabilities
So i just do the 2 on top of stairs, then the pat with the 2 lava mancers on the far platform that u usually do after fstorm
strong forum
Na man u cant tell me that every mob in that entire wing is normal lol
thats standard push route now
ever since they made chains no longer remove players
you just chain every single pull that you can
and all those mobs in that wing dont do anything to the tank
waxen vale
Well they don't do nothing but If heals is down I'm down
strong forum
unluck
waxen vale
I break that in 2 and its just funny how people used to think it was madness to do even that
Even before chains it was super ez
waxen vale
I love it but i do find it challenging on warr
Cuz youll be fine and suddenly a blazing slash will get by and 90% u
On a gigapull
strong forum
there are no giga pulls where blazing slash exists tho
besides very first pull
which you lust + have all CDs anyway
vocal verge
Just spellblock blazing slash and it tickles
vital arch
can someone explain how the chains work in Nelth, I’ve been actively avoiding it…
craggy pilot
can someone explain how the chains work in Nelth, I’ve been actively avoiding it...
you pick it up, run it across mobs, and boom
and each person can do it, but they get 2min CD
vital arch
just flat dps to help with packs?
vocal verge
One chain going off deals at least 20% of the packs hp and stuns. Don’t know exact numbers
harsh light
Just seen a video from kelani, and asking to verify... is prot getting another damage buff? 6%
vital arch
Just seen a video from kelani, and asking to verify... is prot getting another d...
Yes but ring is getting nerfed so it’s probably going to be a net win but not a completely flat 6% unless you already got 447 slotted rings
jagged pier
No its to compensate ring damage so we will loose more than we gain
vital arch
Then you’ll feel the buff most likely. It sims higher than my 447 rings in vault by a couple k for 3 target 1m fights
jagged pier
U do u. But literally pointless to drop it till its nerfed
harsh light
In the pins it said to get gud or onyx was a loss... so i got better lol still not good but dps in keys ranges from 60k-80k
harsh light
Is the ring good?
TLDR is the worse you are the better the becomes because it procs on its own without relying on you to do your rotation really well.
__For Raid: __
The ring is bis on single target with Freezing + Desirous + Prophetic stones DPS combo
Storm + Desirours + Prophetic wins on cleave and is still pretty good on ST, also usable
For M+:
This ring is no longer viable for m+ once you have 440+ rings.
vital arch
Ehhhhh I tried simming 440+ rings and it never out performed.
harsh light
That's what i went off of
jagged gust
besides very first pull
Is first pull really considered a giga pull? I just side stepped tank the first 2 guys, then back peddle the second group into the patting third, or is there a route with more?
jagged pier
Yes as it says there its doesnt say get good or the ring is bad its says the worse u are the better the ring is.
At your current dos level u should be playing the ring
harsh light
My bad didn't mean it in a bad way was just joking on words
strong forum
In the pins it said to get gud or onyx was a loss... so i got better lol still n...
in those ranges you still run that ring
around 100k overalls is when you drop it
jagged gust
you pull the 2 guards into the 3 pack + patrol
yeah I wouldn't consider that a super heavy pull though, giga makes it sound like you're also tagging the 2 groups inside the next room minus the stairway pat or something as well
now that would be hectic, for me at least
strong forum
he said gigapull with blazing slashes
and thats the biggest pull where that could ever occur
harsh light
around 100k overalls is when you drop it
Freehold is the only dungeon, with bracken as a very close second that i hit 100k+ in but didn't think i should go off of those
strong forum
should be possible to hit 100k in every key now
with the recent compensation buff
maybe not NL
VP maybe 90-95k
harsh light
Ok, good to know, i do know I'm missing 4pc damage, but didn't think it made up that big a difference
harsh light
Shouldn't earthen smash be top 3?
Dangit, know i know I'm azz i gotta step up my numbers, 100k all dungeons
green bronze
you guys do 100k? im doing 80k and thought it was not bad lol)
gotta step up my game
harsh light
should be possible to hit 100k in every key now
Just to verify what i need to work on, even on fort weeks, playing mostly d stance, are those the numbers i should be hitting in 21+keys? Or are those tyran, battle stance numbers
strong forum
ofc theyre bstance numbers
but thats not related to affixes or keylevel
the higher you go, the higher your overall should be
cuz you do larger more risky pulls
green bronze
i only press defensive stance on last pull in neltharus
i oftentimes forget it even exists)
strong forum
fucking world first AV29 done in s1
andy did the highest overall ive ever seen in that dungeon as tank
27k dps more than the normal average
like my highest dps in AV was already good, but he too my overall out back and shot it with a shotgun
green bronze
fucking world first AV29 done in s1
wasnt he on pala?
strong forum
yeah
a tank that didnt do more dmg than warrior
same as right now, warrior does more damage than paladin
green bronze
ye, not complaining about damage, but surviving is a problem sometimes
strong forum
that has alot more reasons than class choice
green bronze
especially when healer gives you 1 external whole dungeon
strong forum
reason number 1
strong forum
yeah its not smth you should need for a good while or regularily sit in
green bronze
I haven't used def stance since my first week in warr
you kinda only press it when u are scared
strong forum
its a HUGE dmg loss to do so
green bronze
like im scared of basilisk in uldaman, so i press defensive
strong forum
cuz it affects trinkets and such
waxen vale
One time a dps told me "you know you've been in battle stance this whole key right"
strong forum
idk how its still a thing that people think a tank HAS to be MAXIMUM ULTRA TURTLE
waxen vale
When was the last time that was even a thing
waxen vale
I mean in tbc maybe
strong forum
only due to lack of knowledge and skill
waxen vale
I remember levelling prot warrior and sitting there meleeing one mob for 10 minutes for a quest
Cuz i could barely move his bar
strong forum
welll
daring marlin
One time a dps told me "you know you've been in battle stance this whole key rig...
I don't believe you
green bronze
it used to be a case sometimes, but overall tanks already had to deal at least some damage to maintain aggro
waxen vale
And i was like "fuck this " and never played prot warrior again until end of bfa
That was at lvl 30
harsh light
Are you guys staying in battle for blazing slashes or going d stance? I only go battle once wardens are dead? Just an example of one of the difficult mobs, icecallers in HoI as another example
green bronze
Are you guys staying in battle for blazing slashes or going d stance? I only go ...
i personally go defensive for that pull, because i sometimes die even in defensive stance on that pull)
harsh light
I'm usually battle stance unless a pull sucks i turtle neck th outta d stance, but if I'm chilling I'm tryna pad, and now i now i need to pad harder
strong forum
i dont rly play anymore but i never went D-stance unless i ran out of CDs cuz my dumbass DPS didnt kill the guards in over a minute
harsh light
i personally go defensive for that pull, because i sometimes die even in defensi...
Double wardens aren't a issue anymore, seen a video of tattman pulling them, and the mini boss with a few stranglers into chains and it doesn't last longer than SW
green bronze
there is a chain in that part of the dungeon?
strong forum
yeah when you go to chargath wing
right where you jump down from upstairs
theres a chain right there
harsh light
There's one right where the 5 birds, and double hunters are
green bronze
i thought we were talking about that pull
