Maybe
#protection
crude notch
Fighting for last place
crude notch
Just heroic throw
And die
Well 1) that's a bit stalkerish and 2) there was so much criteria who really knows.
Did you get their SSN?
Were they the creator of a discord partnered channel?
crude notch
Yes
sick sentinel
Haste is 40% kek
warm plinth
Also I coul have gotten my name but I opted to change it anyway
could*
yeah my twitch and shit are all dooteranopia already so
It made sense
warm plinth
Nah rigged because Discor said it was going to work one way and then showed favoritism and did it another
Discord*
Yeah
what name did you want that you couldn't get?
crude notch
Y'all being kinda weird
warm plinth
dox someone by sharing a username lol?
crude notch
dox someone by sharing a username lol?
Yeah idk, maybe he thinks you're gonna hunt him down and kill them for him.
sick sentinel
oh, well, i wont even be able to craft weapon till next tuesday anyway
chilly brook
@strong forum I did better this time dad
warm plinth
<@192743144276623360> I did better this time dad
I approve of this name
sick sentinel
oh yeah, holy paladin is getting some form of changes
true, snagged from dratnos YT interface
cuz he doesn't link to tihs shit
that or my browser doesn't set to 1080p
fresh igloo
the active pally i know atm is cautiously unenthused.
sick sentinel
avenging wrath is very very very good for them while it is up
thats the main thing i know
it make them into gods, its like our avatar
if awestruck is passive, its going to be a must take, cuz last i checked they love crit
waxen orbit
Is heart of thunder dogshit
it looks dogass
Jesus christ before my summon runs out somebody
vocal nimbus
snatched an amalgan r1 
toxic pewter
heart of thunder one of the best dungeon trinkets for m+
toxic pewter
grats
hazy hazel
thx
warm plinth
Imagine feeling like you're entitled to a response in a class discord within 10 seconds of asking your question
Because it's actually impossible to get resummoned right
toxic pewter
this entire situation is confusing to me
warm plinth
Idc if you get resummoned or not. You're still not entitled to a response at all, much less in a few seconds.
waxen orbit
waxen orbit
Whenever Elon squirms out of whatever mud hovel he nests in during daytime and discovers that humans indulge in video games
warm plinth
It's funny because you actually can subscribe to Discord servers now
(assuming they have one set up ofc)
sick sentinel
this is what chat gpt has to say about barbaric training
#1: lack of skill omegalul
warm plinth
ChatGPT did not understand the question.
I feel like it's talking about D&D or something lol
cinder monolith
toxic pewter
chatgpt data only goes up to like September 2021 or something so it has no idea what barbaric training even is
patent saddle
anyone has weak aura for totems on 2nd boss in neltharions lair ?
that it shows under what totem boss is hiding
sick sentinel
keep your eyes on it and don't blink
you can actually watch and track where it will be
but its FAST
warm plinth
There was a WA back in Legion that would mark the proper one with a skull. I am not sure but you might still be able to mark it with like a mouseover mark
But I could also see them having used that new hidden aura tech on it
sick sentinel
i would imagine this is either already, or is going to be a private aura thing
or it could be easily applied to it, if they wanted.
but then, well, what else would it be applied to. what rules for private auras in mythic + ......
warm plinth
It's already a thing; that's why I mentioned it. It was added in 10.1
quiet minnow
its so easy just watch it
its easiest if you turn your char to face it
with right mouse click turning
warm plinth
🤔 why would that matter?
vocal nimbus
because
your character
is LOOKING at him
obviously
double the eyes double the tracking
vapid magnet
are there are bosses spell block is useful on mythic aberrus?
worried about my survival on forgotten experiments and rashok
im pretty sure I just know spell block can be weird with some dots
warm plinth
Pretty much all dots
Sarkareth DoT is the only DoT that it can be used on
It's not weird with them though; it's not intended to work on them.
They just made an exception for Sark because we'd be fucked if it didn't
Infused strikes are physical btw
The DoT is magic but spell block doesn't work on it
You can regular block the initial hits though
yeah :/
Yeah I guess you probably want to just trust healers in lower stacks and save the defensives for higher?
idk how much the low stacks do though
wow
How many stacks do you have to get before it starts to really hurt? Assuming you don't use defensives
gotcha
So yeah probably worth holding on to defensives unless you have to take the higher stack count
Sense might be able to give a better sense of it though since he's actually killed it
I'm just hypothesizing
sick sentinel
which version is that
tame blaze
@astral atlas is your raid using attack speed debuffs for experiments?
I got my asshole turned inside out last night while proging experiments. My RL looked at logs and said they work and they stack so like 40% slower melees from the bosses
twin bramble
does chargath in neltharus do raidwide for every chain broken? or is it just raid wides the whole time he's in fiery focus and you want to break them all asap
amber siren
Initial damage plus a stacking 4 second DoT for each chain broken, plus party wide damage during the focus
3 stacks of the dot will wipe most groups, usually safest to break 2 instantly and use defensive then break third after the dot falls off
twin bramble
thanks!
clever heart
I am currently getting slapped on mythic Kazzara, should i take Spell block talent ?
modern gazelle
what enchants do prots use?
tame blaze
I am currently getting slapped on mythic Kazzara, should i take Spell block tale...
I don’t think it’s needed personally. Can you share logs
clever heart
sure
i swapped trinkets to try and help. but ya i feel like im donig something wrong cause im just geting slapped
amber siren
You can spell block the dot afaik, but I don’t have experience on that fight
toxic pewter
sark cloak may go down as my worst vault pick of all time
i may be worse than me picking dragon games equipment first vault of season 1
what a truly awful item
thin phoenix
its bad?
tame blaze
i swapped trinkets to try and help. but ya i feel like im donig something wrong ...
I’m looking from my phone, so kind of slow. It looks like you’re not spell reflecting the tank buster consistently or keeping shield block up as much as you could, at least on your best attempt log
sick sentinel
sark cloak may go down as my worst vault pick of all time
Why???
clever heart
I’m looking from my phone, so kind of slow. It looks like you’re not spell refle...
kk ty
toxic pewter
Why???
just an item with awful uptime, im playing arms and its at 3% uptime
even worse on prot
and lose 40k health too wearing it
honestly I just view it as truly, truly bad and I am not sure I can even have anyone change my mind at this point
warm plinth
I’m looking from my phone, so kind of slow. It looks like you’re not spell refle...
You can't reflect the tankbuster.
cinder nova
Is there something I'm missing about an overlap during M Experiments? Almost every death is just rotting to death over 4s when Thad is around 10% to 1%.
Feels like if you're not getting pumped healing you just die
warm plinth
@clever heart I looked through a few of the pulls, including the last one (where you did run Spell Block). It's a combination of you mismanaging defensives and your healers just letting you rot when there are overlaps.
amber siren
I am currently getting slapped on mythic Kazzara, should i take Spell block tale...
Oh wait sorry I read that as Sarkareth for some reason, I don’t think you can spell block that dot at all
warm plinth
Like this is wipe 4. Why are you using defensives when you're fine and then not using them until you're already low? You should know where the overlaps are going to be and use defensives accordingly.
You can spell block the dot on Kazzara as well
amber siren
Oh cool TIL
tame blaze
You can't reflect the tankbuster.
I just meant to mitigate the initial hit and a few ticks of the dot
amber siren
One day there will be consistency in how these things are implemented 
warm plinth
I think it's mostly consistent; some things they just exclude because we wouldn't have enough of an answer for them if they didn't
warm plinth
Unnerving Focus, Imp Wall, or Enduring Defenses, depending on the fight
cinder nova
M Exp
amber siren
I’m definitely fine with adding blockable dots, just maybe a more obvious way in game or maybe adding something to the dungeon journal to indicate this dot is different
cinder nova
I'm thinking maybe Enduring?
warm plinth
Yeah I think Experiments is probably one you'd drop ED on
You share tanking so you can recover SB there, and you definitely don't wanna give up imp wall on that one since it already fucks us up
restive scroll
Yo what are those raid nerfs wow!
Oh my.
Beautiful.
I will not hate zskarn as much x')
proper roost
i may be worse than me picking dragon games equipment first vault of season 1
why on earth did you do this LMAO
dusky canopy
Yeah it’s like insanely easier now as far as I can tell just by reading the notes
toxic pewter
why on earth did you do this LMAO
dunno just thought it was good
pale hill
Like this is wipe 4. Why are you using defensives when you're fine and then not...
This is pretty cool. Does that third bar show that this person as not in defensive stance except one part of the fight?
warm plinth
Yes, but you generally don't need to be in Defensive Stance as long as you're playing properly, outside of specific circumstances. That boss fight isn't one that he should be struggling on.
modern gazelle
anyone else have WA tracking their abilities yet you still end up looking at hot bar for cooldowns?
cerulean tusk
I hide my bars in combat 
Less clutter on the screen, the better. If you can see the same CD twice on your screen - i would say you are doing it wrong
wet atlas
where do u find the break down in logs of where the damage is spiking from the boss? I cant recall which tab it is
jagged gust
This is pretty cool. Does that third bar show that this person as not in defensi...
You can even see how the second activation syncs perfectly with him going from ~35%HP back to full, lulling his healer into a false sense of security, swapping back to battle stance, immediately dropping to near death, panic activating Last Stand and then dropping like a fly the moment it ends. Logs really paint a beautiful picture don't they?
wet atlas
resources>hit points
ty, thats what I was looking for
cinder nova
I thought I'd never hate a boss more than Augur or Kazz.
But M Exp is taking the cake.
restive crown
when are the good times to pot over a m+ dungeon?
plush tendon
on CD (with other cooldowns)
on bosses
on big pulls
on CD works when you only do bosses and big pulls; even better when you do big pulls wtih bosses
restive crown
haha alright
plush tendon
there really isnt a 'best time' unless theres a damage check you need to beat
like, maybe hold pot if you approaching that first boss in Halls (or 3rd) and you know its gonna be a bumpy ride if the fight lasts too long
restive crown
like, maybe hold pot if you approaching that first boss in Halls (or 3rd) and yo...
js wondering if it actually matters if i pot or not as a tank lol
like how many seconds faster would the boss die if i pot vs no pot
plush tendon
It’s a non 0 damage increase
But it’s the same mode of thinking of using health pots- like, you don’t have to use em, but they are there to be used
And can make whatever you are doing easier/save your life/do more damage
I think every player should get into the habit of using all the resources the game presents to you whether that be flasks, enchants, runes, pots, etc.
cloud dagger
I thought I'd never hate a boss more than Augur or Kazz.
I'm in the same boat
warm plinth
js wondering if it actually matters if i pot or not as a tank lol
It's about 700 DPS for me over a 3 min boss fight (with lust). Almost 5k DPS on a pack of 5 (no lust) for 1 min. So like Augusto said, it's not massive but it's non-0 and on shit like that, every bit counts
atomic nest
hey is ingenstion dodgeable as the tank in underrot?
urban bane
ya it can be outranged
toxic pewter
I own that cloak and I took it from vault over a 447 cloak and I regret it
Abysmal uptime on proc and lose 40k health wearing it
I’m very staunchly against that cloak and not sure anyone can convince me otherwise
warm plinth
hey is ingenstion dodgeable as the tank in underrot?
Watch the ability timer for Indigestion, at about half a second remaining, start strafing directly away from him. Keep going until the cast finishes.
topaz raptor
will spell block do anything against rashok's earthen crush/flaming slash
warm plinth
Flaming Slash, yes. Earthen Crush is blockable regularly.
warm plinth
You shouldn't be simming dslice
spring ermine
glacial skiff
You shouldn't be simming dslice
What should i be simming then?
brittle owl
multiple target patchwork, 1-1.5 min no lust
crude notch
What should i be simming then?
brittle owl
if you're simming for trinkets assume a single use so go off that. if the trinket a is 1 min cd vs trinket b 2 min cd you do 1.5 min vs 1 min
spring ermine
Tbh dungeon slice in my experience corresponds more to reality than simming multiple patchwork targets, if you check your breakdown on an average m+ dungeon. The reason is that in a dungeon, you do not have 5 mobs that you dps for 5 minutes straight. Instead 1. you have downtime and 2. you will kill some targets off and then there will only be 4 3 2 etc and this does in fact make a huge difference.
ionic fern
Dungeon slice is more or less fine.
What is not fine is the APL.
brittle owl
afaik (don't know if it was fixed in the meantime) dslice has a weird spread of targets and timings
ionic fern
It's not designed to hold CD's etc for bigger packs like you actually would.
spring ermine
You can always verify yourself by running the same dungeon with 2 different items/talents you want to check.
brittle owl
and the apl yeah
ionic fern
It's casting everything on CD.
brittle owl
patchwork multiple targets lets you compare stuff you'd use just once in an average pull vs twice
ionic fern
"DungeonSlice:
360s sim
NO Boss(es)
1 enemy for the first 135s
~5s of nothing to hit (no actions)
4-6 adds every 45s (starting at 140s) for ~15s
1-3 adds every 50s (starting at 160s) for ~30s
(there will be short periods of inaction in-between some add spawns)
"
brittle owl
i.e. a 1 min cd trink vs a 1.5/2 min cd trinket. it also uses your cd's on cooldown
which is the usecase, generally
ionic fern
APL is 100% not designed for that.
brittle owl
yeah so still wonky bfa design
jagged pier
Also just to add to what mwahi said we don advercate to sim 5 mins for dungeon sims
Its 1-1:30mins
Which is more representative for fight lengths in m+
No 30s
Not 45s
Thats too short
proper thunder
would you use mdtsim to sim a route? or nah
glacial skiff
so i'm really confused about these sims now lmao
each of the ones nomeratur suggested show different items lmao
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/iDR7edJ7HVnpx8VL2MwCRn
Like this is 10t
jagged pier
Because different items are better in different scenarios
glacial skiff
brittle owl
fight length matter alot
crude notch
correct
glacial skiff
and https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gCq527sBGS5pYuFXacaPr3 single target
jagged pier
Thats not single target
crude notch
what prios you have
ionic fern
You sim.
You get the results, which will suggest different items.
You pick the most "ideal" item based on how it's performing over all the sims.
glacial skiff
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2mrv2zm4JR8zBpuysRXKLL sorry this one is
crude notch
If item C is consistently one of the bottom options, you don't run item C.
ionic fern
"Oh, item X is r1 in 1t and r3 in 5t, great, i'll take it over the r2 in 1t and r4 in 5t"
Etc etc etc.
crude notch
It's process of elimination
brittle owl
statistical example : on average, the lower the fight timer, the lower the value of crit
until a cutoff point obv
warm plinth
Tbh dungeon slice in my experience corresponds more to reality than simming mult...
Where in M+ do you fight 4-6 adds for 15 seconds or 1-3 adds for 30 seconds? You sim multiple targets for relatively short duration and then ST for ~3 minutes and use your brain from there.
brittle owl
the real issue with dslice is the standardised wait times
warm plinth
You can do 5 targets or 10 targets or whatever your average pull looks like
brittle owl
in a dungeon you'd literally wait 10 seconds for your cd's before pulling
glacial skiff
also i see some ppl using thunderlord now, is it worth vs battering ram or something else now?
warm plinth
also i see some ppl using thunderlord now, is it worth vs battering ram or somet...
I believe Nome said it's a small dps loss with a 30% increase in Demo Shout uptime
brittle owl
but in a semi random manner, it's never standardised
jagged pier
U drop show of force for it
If u take it
But then u have to press it on cd
Which ppl dont do
U dont drop a higher talent point for a lower talent point thats a waste
brittle owl
jakey your spelling is improving way to go lad
crude notch
If talents were picked solely on what buttons people actually pressed all the time, there'd be like half the talents taken.
crude notch
The same people that don't press demo shout enough for tl also aren't pressing revenge enough for sof.
Might as well scrap any talent with "Shield Wall" in it as well because lord knows no one presses that shit
jagged pier
jakey your spelling is improving way to go lad
Its not really spelling its small phone and big fingers and a morning brain and eyes thats dont check and just send
blazing condor
brittle owl
jagged gust
I believe Nome said it's a small dps loss with a 30% increase in Demo Shout upti...
I generously estimated 35% on average. Even so with optimal casting Demo has a roughly 18% uptime, so you're looking at boosting ~18 to ~24%
But realistically we're missing a GCD or two in between, so less than a 5% overall actual uptime boost
quick elk
Hey All, i was chilling in a +17 NL yesterday at the 1st boss, when razor shards hit me for 545K and killed me. I survived all the others so i think i messed something up but cant seem to figure it out in logs. can anyone help please - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ZWCqmt3wvAaLDK2B/#fight=last&type=damage-taken&pull=2&source=2
jagged pier
U can just walk out of razor shards
sly hamlet
Waking Stats or Sustained Strength on Chest and y?
jagged pier
Waking its more main stat
sly hamlet
but much less stamina
jagged gust
bigger number hit harder kill faster
jagged pier
We dont give a shit about stam
jagged gust
no need stam when bad guy die
sly hamlet
40 Str > 225 Stam?!
jagged pier
Yes
warm plinth
Stamina should basically never factor into a decision. You get stamina from item level. We already prioritize ilevel.
sly hamlet
So Sark Cloak > all too?
warm plinth
Yeah, it's higher ilevel. The proc is very meh but it has good stats on it
jagged pier
Eh yer kinda
In m+ im tempted to say no, as its procs like twice across a dungeon
And randomly at that
restive scroll
Could be more useful in regular groups which know to slack a bit on small damages :D
Isn't there any food buff or something that does small dots?
sly hamlet
Just PuG -> 100% Uptime xD
jagged pier
I mean it has a ICD so u cant get a stack like more than once wvery 20 seconds or somrhing and u do find u get it regularly
But its not like u can play it proccing on like a boss pull
So 🤷
Its like 2% uptime on bosses and in keys on the actual good buff
About 13% of your highest secondary
It gives rating so if u go over the dr threshold it will give u less
Its sims like 700 dps more for me in ST and i find it really really hard to believe if im honest
sly hamlet
Probably sims for 100% stack on every ICD
What about secondary - u guys going haste all the way no matter any caps?
jagged pier
Well we dont really focus on secondaries as strength is just far better
But if u have the option without dropping ilvl u go for 7100 haste rating
Without buffs
restive scroll
Without buffs
Into the fray included?
sly hamlet
ok thats basically going haste all the way ^^
jagged pier
Into the fray included?
No without buffs
sleek current
Either let us upgrade Annulet to 441 or turn it off. I hate looking at it. 😂 Lost 900 haste for it.
warm plinth
ItF and Wild Strikes are percentage gains and have 0 effect on diminishing returns.
jagged pier
I mean 447 rings are gunna be a margin dps loss over the ring
warm plinth
In fact, more rating makes both talents better because it's a multiplicative gain.
jagged pier
So in m+ u can use double 447 if u want
sleek current
Got to get some 447 rings first then. 😁
jagged pier
Well even 441 u might as well sim 🤷
modern gazelle
do you guys use a sim addon? if so what do you use?
jagged pier
Yes simc
pallid quiver
Yeah, nab simc, chuck the code at raidbots
jagged pier
No
pallid quiver
the simulationcraft addon
jagged pier
^
sleek current
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/55ZyYvcQyMGyC5H2ChRoXD
Actually a 5k increase without it in Mythic+ 7 targets.
sleek current
2k loss in ST. I think I'll run circle in Mythic+ then
modern gazelle
thanks
sleek current
3k increase at 5 targets. Fun.
marble cipher
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/55ZyYvcQyMGyC5H2ChRoXD
Actually a 5k inc...
that sim is running the ST gem in the ring btw, unless I'm seeing it wrong
sleek current
Yeah, I've never really thought about the AoE version of the gems. I suppose I can take a look and sim them too.
warm plinth
there's only one gem that gets swapped. You still run desirous/prophetic
YOu just change freezing ice to storm
marble cipher
^
sleek current
Sound, I'll give it a sim
vivid jay
Is there an easier way to swap gems than going to the forbidden reach?
warm plinth
not unless you don't mind destroying the old one
marble cipher
get a second ring
jagged pier
Have 2 rings
marble cipher
is the only "easy" option
ionic fern
Have 2 rings
This.
vivid jay
yea...
warm plinth
You can buy a second ring for 10 of the witchamacallits
but that also means you need a 2nd desirous and a 2nd prophetic
sleek current
0.7% difference between Annulet with Storming and Circle. Anyone know a decent haste/crit ring? Just interested to see the difference with a crit ring instead of a vers ring
sleek current
Cheers mate.
Seal performs better than Circle by about 400 but, still falls 700 less than annulet. Who would notice though. 🤷 Haha
warm plinth
eternal sentry ring is good too
modern gazelle
can you embelish on non crafted gear or are people running multiple pieces of crafted gear?
warm plinth
Crafted
crude notch
@strong forum is there like a /played for D4? Woulld you be at 100 hours if there was?
crude notch
not bad then.
warm plinth
war's weekly, not bad
crude notch
YOU"RE NOT BAD
warm plinth
🙂
warm plinth
So far I got beacon on pally, anvil on war, and a pretty decent ring for hunter
strong forum
not bad then.
my first barb died on 64 on monday, at apparently 44hrs which seems hella wrong, i was a good 10hrs of that afk
crude notch
ionic fern
Good.
warm plinth
crude notch
i wonder what i craft next week
sleek current
Lol the funny number
warm plinth
crude notch
Ghash did you see I got the pertty dragon?
warm plinth
what perty dragon
crude notch
warm plinth
what is that from?
crude notch
Sark
warm plinth
Ohhh, cool!
warm plinth
Yuge
sleek current
We saw it drop for the first time yesterday in heroic. Hoping that we make it to CE so I can get it.
crude notch
i need a mog to go with it now
ugh all the sims point towards me holding onto my next spark
strong forum
depends what build you play
rend - shit for waveclear good for bosses
ww - shit for everything until you get a few aspects then its great
upheaval - good for waveclear shit for bosses
hota - meh waveclear decent for bosses
double swing - uuuuuuuuuh prolly good on bosses?
crude notch
Sanguine still heals captain jolly
jagged gust
barb always sucks without its set pieces
i think upheaval is the only spec that barely got any play in d3, i'd love if they pushed that right out of the gates this time
spice axle
can someone explain why cant we drop battering ram for spellblock for m+?
warm plinth
because it's better than the other things that are suggested to drop
spice axle
isnt it just st damage?
warm plinth
Increased shield charge damage (which cleaves) and increased auto attack speed, which means more SS resets.
spice axle
i remember it wasnt as popular choice in S1. is it because of hotfix or anything?
warm plinth
It was a popular choice in S1
spice axle
for m+
warm plinth
Yes, it was a popular choice in S1 for M+
spice axle
i remember ppl only getting it in tyrannical and ST damage
warm plinth
Nope. We used it for everything.
jagged pier
Battering ram has always been in the recommended builds in here at least
jagged gust
What was the general consensus on Barbaric Training at the time?
jagged pier
Bad
warm plinth
Barbaric has always been bad
jagged pier
Always been bad
warm plinth
That's not to say people may not have used Battering Ram, or may not have used Barbaric Training (because they did), but we always recommended Battering Ram and always recommended against Barbaric Training.
jagged gust
Makes sense, rage to damage ratios are always tricky to eyeball, as an experiment I always like to plan out my build before looking at any suggested talent trees just to see where i went wrong and how
mana makes sense to me, but rage is so esoteric, it always sends me for a loop
warm plinth
Well, think of Barbaric Training like this: You're getting a 25% damage increase for a 50% rage cost increase.
ionic fern
jagged gust
fantastic way of phrasing it
crude notch
mwahi that face
unkempt rover
do you guys log review by any chance? I wanna know what I'm doing wroing
I can't get higher than like average 55-56k ST
Feel like my talents are maybe wrong
ionic fern
Feel like my talents are maybe wrong
Run Bolster (if you got 2/4p).
Run Into the Fray.
Your casts (especially SHield Slam) are low.
You are wasting rage.
SS casts should be atleast like 18 CPM.
dusky canopy
<:purpleface:1115871627750682664>
This!
balmy canyon
Barbaric has always been bad
Think we'll ever reach a haste break point where we have enough rage to make it worth it?
unkempt rover
Run Bolster (if you got 2/4p).
Run Into the Fray.
Your casts (especially SHield ...
do you know where I'am wasting rage?
acoustic oasis
I have (with into the fray) 51%, haste, dont use haste rune, did i do it? Did i hit the cap?
ionic fern
do you know where I'am wasting rage?
The first image shows you.
You wasted 753 rage in a nearly 3m fight.
That's A LOT.
Literally ALL of your Demoralising Shouts were used when you were at max rage..you lost 120 Rage just from those alone.
unkempt rover
I see, I think it's because I have a habit in using in M+
bitter herald
you dont press ignore pain enough
ionic fern
Not wasting rage is like the bread and butter of Protection.
bitter herald
dont need to go mad with it, but if youre at high rage its often worth dumping a bit with ip to avoid wasting
dumped rage -> anger management/violent outburst -> more damage
unkempt rover
Revenge should only be pressed when proc'd correct?
ionic fern
No.
acoustic oasis
You need to pop it to to proc SS resets
Have shield block up, thunder clap on CD, shield slam on CD, revenge or IP for rage dump based on the situation.
If you are head above water, revenge, if ur health is spiking hard, smooth it out with some IPs.
ionic fern
Your priority is..Rage builders->Rage spenders.
Shield Slam->Thunder Clap->Revenge/Ignore Pain.
Revenger = if both Shield Slam and Thunder Clap are on cooldown and you have rage to spare, e.g don't need to use it on Shield Block or on Ignore Pain to soak a big hit)
Ignore Pain = If you are near max rage and Shield Slam / Thunder clap are off CD, then you first press Ignore Pain (since it's off the global cooldown) to avoid rage capping while also allowing the global cooldown to be used on Shield Slam / Thunder clap.
That's a "easy" way of explaining it. Can be various nuances.
bitter herald
you have a lot of gaps of unused gcds where youre waiting for ss/tc to recharge, cast revenge then 😛
sick sentinel
freehold is pretty gross after second boss if you pull too much and wipe to it, then people release to a giant ball of adds
so you have to tell them not to release and let them reset
only bad part about FH TBH, only thing scary in that dungeon at all besides first boss healing cuz no kicks or eudora grape shots
tidal nimbus
for two really god trinkets from mythic +
would heart of theunder and mark work?
*good
sick sentinel
heart yes, mark, duno
bitter herald
mark is one of our best?
needs dps loot spec to loot
sick sentinel
im not sure if mark is good or not
did not play legion, did not yet loot mark, so i can't verify it for my self
+versa nerd, im not anti crit completely, but i would prefer to have a bit of crit after having other stats
bitter herald
ah, im much heaver crit weighted due to playing arms as well
i find mark does a lot, should beat most other trinkets in pure damage
(ignoring beacon/essence from raid)
tidal nimbus
fair
it pumps a ton on my rogue
what would be another good trinket then?
also we ewanna stack haste and verst right
or haste, verst and crit
viral elk
Whats the soft cap on haste? Do any of you tend to spread to other stats at that point or just keep cranking haste?
bitter herald
what would be another good trinket then?
anvil, beacon or essence 😛
sick sentinel
im pretty sure thats the one people were mentioning, i could be wrong
tidal nimbus
those all from raid
sick sentinel
rocks is from WQ
bitter herald
yup, but they outclass everything else
umbral cave
So with the Zkarn nerfs, did those go in effect yesterday or after the tuesday reset. The title says The 7th but they mentioned with restarts on the 6th?
bitter herald
the uldaman horn might be worth grabbing (also requires dps loot spec)
was intending to grind for one but got etter drops from raid
tidal nimbus
ah alright well i raid on my rogue with the guild
so yea only mythic dungeons are good drops p much
bitter herald
could just pug it and hope 😛
nm should go down pretty quick at the least
tidal nimbus
yeye
hmmm
lair sucks ass as a dps
how bad is it to tank
also anyone got the mythic + talent tree?
i aint looking on icey as last time i did it gave my rogue an out of date build
sick sentinel
im really only doing low keys but it seems pretty straight forwards easy dungeon to me, id be scared about the jars boss
tidal nimbus
healing it on my mistweaver is legit the least fun ive had doing keys in a while lmao
bitter herald
first boss sucks, have to hope dps kill adds or its over
dps should handle the totems so focus on the cup game
you can spellrelfect sunder (difficult), toxic retch and magmacrash from the last 3 bosses, makes em a lot easier
tidal nimbus
yea
btw if you think the first boss is bad on tank
its much worse on mistweaver imoi
sick sentinel
the uldaman horn might be worth grabbing (also requires dps loot spec)
was inten...
I heard that was ass
tidal nimbus
causei have to melee the boss to do heal
cause as mist all my healing depends on my dmg
but i cant melee the boss
sick sentinel
I heard that was ass
looks like ass
tidal nimbus
cant even tele back to him cause of the stuff under him
sick sentinel
Doesnt it damage you too
And split damage with you
someone should go sniff it (test it out for a week or so) to see if its a piece of shit
bitter herald
you need to move out of it i think
does dam but awkward to play with
sick sentinel
Thats what ive heard
tidal nimbus
just cause smth looks bad does not mean it is tbh
sick sentinel
I have dargul, OCE, rock, signoll flare, and the raid horn
tidal nimbus
one of the best performing sub build revolves around a talent that i thought looked horrible
sick sentinel
Rockin dargul and oce rn
plush tendon
naw, Raid Horn aint wurf
tidal nimbus
ALSO
lil shout out
i need to get a prot mog to match this
got it last night and im still giddy about it lmao
sick sentinel
well, if you want to talk about cursed trinkets, i currently have, drreadplates, treemouth, and flare
so, fuck me i guess right, holy fuck
bitter herald
open vault in arms
no shields but actually good trinket options
sick sentinel
ran VP like, 2 or 3 or 4 times this and last week, nothin yet
tidal nimbus
ran VP like, 2 or 3 or 4 times this and last week, nothin yet
i did like
15 or so runs of underot last week
on my rogue
wanted bracers and two daggers
got nothing
i did get a socket belt tho but it didnt have both stats i wanted
sick sentinel
i remember these 2 brother DH guys,only key they ever wanted to run in BFA was under rot for those damn daggers or fist weapons
unkempt rover
Your priority is..Rage builders->Rage spenders.
Shield Slam->Thunder Clap->Reve...
Thanks for the help!
tidal nimbus
tbh im just happy its the second easiest dungeon this season
also i wanna say smth
at LEAST on mistweaver
sick sentinel
VP seems really easy
tidal nimbus
i dont have a large red button with no cooldown that says "dispell"
cause i remember a tank got pissed at me earlier for not dispelling the whole part within 4 seconds
sick sentinel
there is still a ton of fuck ups going on in VP don't get me wrong, healer died to the ring on boss 2, i almost died to getting static'd on final
we've wiped to that last boss usually about once, or someone just insta flops to it
tidal nimbus
what you lads think the hardest dungeon is rn?
imo its lair
neltharius is also tight on the timer imo
bitter herald
halls too, those dragons are smth else
hasty robin
Does anyone know of or have a decent WA for shield block? Note, I'm just looking for shield block, no other displays so trying to avoid needing a full package to cut down
unkempt rover
I use a pretty minimalistic one, but it includes other things as well
let me share just in case
bitter herald
tbf if its just a bar you want to track the duration you could probably make that quickly
sick sentinel
what you lads think the hardest dungeon is rn?
I hate brackhide
I dont mind fh or nelth or nl
bitter herald
I hate brackhide
are you going left first (dont do this)
tidal nimbus
halls too, those dragons are smth else
NO
sick sentinel
I hate the gauntlet
tidal nimbus
those things
SUCKKKKKKKK
hollow is a nightmare for my mist
so much
"removed when healed to full"
modern brook
I hate the gauntlet
You dont do the gauntlet
uneven mason
I hate the gauntlet
Tree first
hasty robin
I use a pretty minimalistic one, but it includes other things as well
This is perfect, thanks!
mortal ice
is there anywhere i can post my logs to get feedback on them?
crude notch
yep here
mortal ice
im struggling with surviving and im kinda new to retail
specifically on amalg/experiments im struggling
crystal mauve
On Amalgation the only thing that puts you in danger is when you take avoidable damage - Convergence twice
and clearing your debuff but that's not 100% your fault if some people are dead or if people run away from you (I had this issue lol)
dusky canopy
How many stacks are you guys clearing at?
mortal ice
im not sure
right after the soak + the aoe is what we normally do
then ill take a spike/slash and ask for a clear
the orb is 100% my fault its just generally surviving some things causes me issues
dusky canopy
It looks like you could of used another wall charge
Also looks like you could have more CPM in general
Are you having a lot of down time?
Less CPM means less rage generated witch means less defense
mortal ice
the only time i really have is when we're swapping bosses or when im running from the shadow aoe
apart from that not really
crystal mauve
You've taken 6 melee hit without shield block on your Amalgam kill, which could be avoided easily. You take a significant amount of avoidable damage and people don't help you clear your debuff. It doesn't look bad to be honest, could improve but far from terrible
dusky canopy
I know we will require a lot of healer support on that fight, it seems like you’re playing fairly well
mortal ice
the shield block thing I can solve with more last stands
dusky canopy
Squeeze in more SS for more rage maybe some more IP and make sure you keep using wall
mortal ice
that's definitely on my and i think I improve it quite a bit on experiments
dusky canopy
It’s only a 1min cd
crystal mauve
You could ask for an external when you feel squishy but that's pretty much it the shield block is just getting use to it
For rexperiment I was in charge of calling the shots for the clearing. Just make sure to spread the charges between the both of you and clear around 6 stacks max is usually safer. If you are above, I would recommend using defensives. Note that depending on the cast sequence of the boss you will sometimes not get any stack for 10/15sec. One minstake in our group was not to kill the previous boss fast enough and we would have two bosses active at the same time for long periods of time. You stack up really quickly if that happens and you get destroyed
sick sentinel
how good is this trinket for us? Sim tells me to pick hands for ilvl upgrade
Current trinkets are anvil and old icon
dusky canopy
Jakey did you look at dudes log I don’t see any direct issues?
crystal mauve
I'm loving OCE so far simple and effective, it's good even if you are the only one using it and better if everyone is
dusky canopy
Except could of cast wall more
dusky canopy
I'm loving OCE so far simple and effective, it's good even if you are the only o...
Ye OCE was my first vault been rocking it since
It’s awesome
sick sentinel
what oathstone should we attune it to?
dusky canopy
Feels good in raid too when you notice having all the flight buff
You sim it
I went haste
jagged pier
Im on phone in the office
sick sentinel
okay dokay
jagged pier
So im not going to be able too look at then
jagged pier
Yer its pretty bad
crystal mauve
Why don't warcraft log let you pick what to load when you open the page? It's always taking forever to usualy load somthing I'll change in two sec anyway
loud cave
What method do people normally use for tracking Ignore Pain? Currently I have a health bar that adds a grey bar at the end for absorbs. Should I just make a separate bar for Ignore Pain?
jagged pier
Might look later but i got to gym and then key cause get them out the way
dusky canopy
What method do people normally use for tracking Ignore Pain? Currently I have a ...
I don’t track it
dusky canopy
Press IP to not cap rage and then don’t think about it more than that
If you play well ip will pretty much always be active
You don’t really have to think about it at all
Very few scenarios in my experience where you would want to have it full before an ability hits you
loud cave
I guess that makes sense tbh. Guess I just need a buff duration bar for shield block since I am so bad about maintaining it.
dusky canopy
That is an issue
crystal mauve
Shield block is much more important than IP to track indeed
dusky canopy
You care about effective block a lot
Effective Block uptime is what you want to prioritize
loud cave
Btw, that reminds me: do I want to use a shield block before Ignore pain at beginning of combat?
urban bane
shield block big important
tepid nacelle
you should get enough front loaded rage at the start of a pull assuming you start with charge to put up both right away
dusky canopy
If you can’t cast LS on pull then I would sb asap after charge/SS
Basically as soon as you have the rage for it
uneven mason
2p you're running bolster so like Brew said you can pop ls and just grind damage
dusky canopy
Takes a few globals to get out your first SC
So pressing the first charge of SB in the opener is good
If you can’t LS
tepid nacelle
yeah thats good too
urban bane
But you really don't need to press IP at start of pull. still just follow the usual prevent rage overcap thing. IP doesnt trigger GCD so you dont need to worry about sequencing really
dusky canopy
Well sorta
Opener pumps so much rage you will basically be pressing IP with every global
Just about
loud cave
Is it worth trying to macro shield block and Ignore Pain to 1 button to try and help maintain uptime?
urban bane
no no
dusky canopy
Definitely do not do that
uneven mason
Opener pumps so much rage you will basically be pressing IP with every global
More than that imo
loud cave
Guess it's just one of those things that merely sounds good
dusky canopy
You can macro SS with IP on your normal IP bind
The macro is in the Pins of this channel
uneven mason
Is it worth trying to macro shield block and Ignore Pain to 1 button to try and ...
The only macro we use is generally IP+ss to sniipe resets from devastator
urban bane
Yeah but still keep SS its own keybind. But IP+SS is nice
uneven mason
Yeah you macro your IP key, never your ss key
olive bay
God, I'm such an idiot. I just realized I can avoid the frontal on the first boss of NL. Why the hell is that avoidable but it's not on the trash right before it
uneven mason
I CAN TAKE IT!!!!
loud cave
The only macro we use is generally IP+ss to sniipe resets from devastator
Would I want to use that as a separate button, or replace my normal Ignore Pain button?
uneven mason
Would I want to use that as a separate button, or replace my normal Ignore Pain ...
Replace IP button
bitter herald
will still cast ip if ss is on cd
urban bane
yuh
uneven mason
It's because IP is off GCD and you'll be pressing it between other abilities, SS can reset from autos, so it's a reflex aid
urban bane
only time that macro can get you into trouble is it you gotta stun quickly in like an m+ and it can munch your global with SS
uneven mason
To clarify the macro always has IP first
urban bane
but that's kinda not a huge worry
uneven mason
only time that macro can get you into trouble is it you gotta stun quickly in li...
This truth I feel it
Especially in UR and FH
loud cave
Well I look forward to trying that out later. Thanks for the tips.
uneven mason
"oh shit gotta stu.. well that's a dead DPS"
bitter herald
To clarify the macro always has IP first
it often doesnt matter with off gcd stuff
they can be a bit werid
uneven mason
it often doesnt matter with off gcd stuff
It does because if you ss first you'll munch the rage gen with the IP that follows
Trust us
marble cipher
and it's also to "catch" a Shield Slam proc while pressing enrage
not alwyas because of the rage, but also because of that
press IP , oh, had SS proc, do IP and SS at the same time => profit
tepid nacelle
also just remember to keep in mind that without shield block, your IP will run off faster
so they work together
so using IP without SB up will prob waste a lot of your rage
uneven mason
so using IP without SB up will prob waste a lot of your rage
But looks great for healing parses 
tepid nacelle
LOL
sick sentinel
is a tank really not just a healer with alot of armor and hp
or are we just pretending thats not what it is lol
cerulean tusk
Then you got BDK, efficiently just a target dummy. Don't do much really, but it can't die
sick sentinel
i would imagine heawl monk goes togethger well with bdk
cerulean tusk
Better than druids passive hots and ironbark for every pull? 
crude notch
The days of best healer/tank combos are pretty much gone
it's all skill related anymore
sick sentinel
this rare i keep killing
cerulean tusk
So you telling me they are all the same healing profiles and kits?
cerulean tusk
Good
drifting lance
does anyone have an intervene at target's target macro
modern brook
does anyone have an intervene at target's target macro
you wrote like 90% of it in the question lol
crude notch
So you telling me they are all the same healing profiles and kits?
that's not what i'm saying, I'm saying it has no impact on the tank
cerulean tusk
You sure about that, I feel different about that statement
modern brook
does anyone have an intervene at target's target macro
/cast [@targettarget] Intervene should just work
crude notch
You might if you suck as a tank and can't keep yourself alive.
modern brook
can htrow a ,exists into the bracket if u want
drifting lance
thanks
cerulean tusk
So you are saying BDK and protwarr is functionally the same?
crude notch
Still not what I'm saying
drifting lance
didn't know what the target's target line was
cerulean tusk
So different functions does not equal different reactions needed?
dusky canopy
As Prot war I prefer healers than can bomb heal me to full if I goof up and health drops below half
So all healers
That’s basically Jordan’s point
crude notch
There's not an objectively bad tank/healer combo.
Skill excluded.
This isn't wrath where there were "tank" healers and "raid" healers.
drifting lance
is there a list somewhere on what exactly you can intervene
sick sentinel
what do i do with old sparks? transmog?
bitter herald
sell them to training blacksmiths 😛
waxen vale
we really dont want heavy repurcussions for m+? also surprised we arent reccomended unnerving focus
cerulean tusk
I deleted them for bagspace
sick sentinel
we really dont want heavy repurcussions for m+? also surprised we arent reccomen...
no, due to bolster
dusky canopy
You don’t need HR for 100% blockuptime with 2pc + bolster
sick sentinel
bolster should now cover it
dusky canopy
Unnerving we don’t take because we have to spend the pts else where
bitter herald
sell them to training blacksmiths 😛
(speaking of, if anyone has any on eu stormscale xd)
dusky canopy
Yes
dusky canopy
Yes
waxen vale
i just swithced to fueled by violence
dusky canopy
ED + Bolster + 2pc + HR
waxen vale
i had brutal vitality
sick sentinel
in combination with that LS has a reduced CD and bolster makes activating LS have SB for LS duration.....
which of these do i craft if i wanna replace lariat?
dusky canopy
Switching HR to ITF is huge gains because of all the haste
waxen vale
is uproar not that goood? It sems like u could remove shockwave in some keys
sick sentinel
and the set bonus.... it starts to get silly
im guessing the one without embellishment
just wanna be sure
dusky canopy
which of these do i craft if i wanna replace lariat?
Torc
sick sentinel
nice thanks 🙂
dusky canopy
I did mine with crit\haste and flavor pocket
modern brook
is there a list somewhere on what exactly you can intervene
like what targets are interveneable or what you can intervene to efficiently use as an external?
dusky canopy
is uproar not that goood? It sems like u could remove shockwave in some keys
Yes you can if your group has a lot of aoe stuns
I wouldn’t do that unless you are playing with coordination
unique kelp
Less clutter on the screen, the better. If you can see the same CD twice on your...
I am really tempted to do this, but I get anxious any time I don't have them on my screen. I have a good WA tracker, but I still have the habit of looking down at my bars for specific abilities.
drifting lance
like what targets are interveneable or what you can intervene to efficiently use...
the latter
modern brook
Yeah having asked the question it is very obvious which option it would be. To my knowledge no list like that exists
You should be able to intervene + Sr anything Sr-able?
But I'm guessing at that point
unique kelp
Sorry to respond to such an old comment. I tried this yesterday and I think it worked well, but I wanted to clarify:
Unless I need IP to survive, should I use Rage on Revenge when I have free GCDs that don't have a higher priority to press?
velvet ermine
Is there any place for Thunderlord with the buffs it got or is it still just a whatever talent
fresh igloo
Sorry to respond to such an old comment. I tried this yesterday and I think it w...
yes, dump rage with revenge if SS and TC are on CD, if you're GCD locked and might rage cap that's when you IP.
fresh igloo
Is there any place for Thunderlord with the buffs it got or is it still just a w...
probably not, the problem with it was that it made CDs that line up perfectly not do that anymore.
velvet ermine
Thats kind of what i expected, i imagine in near perfect play Avatar+Shout goes off CD at the same time
fresh igloo
demo shout + shield charge
velvet ermine
Ahh, that too
fresh igloo
big damage
velvet ermine
And near-max rage
uneven mason
And considering travel time and GCD budget you don't gain a whole lot
unique kelp
Your priority is..Rage builders->Rage spenders.
Shield Slam->Thunder Clap->Reve...
Oh this is exactly what I was looking for, thank you.
uneven mason
Thats kind of what i expected, i imagine in near perfect play Avatar+Shout goes ...
Avatar desyncs in perfect play because am pushes the cd below 45s but it lasts 20s so
..
unique kelp
yes, dump rage with revenge if SS and TC are on CD, if you're GCD locked and mig...
I know it depends on what's up/situation, but when do you typically dump rage? IE I have SS proc up and I'm ~60 rage, IP before SS?
marble cipher
^ and this is where the IP+SS macro is helpful 
unique kelp
So with the Zkarn nerfs, did those go in effect yesterday or after the tuesday r...
Not sure if you got an answer, but my buddies were raiding Mythic and the Nelth changes happened mid-pull.
fresh igloo
I know it depends on what's up/situation, but when do you typically dump rage? I...
dump rage so that you don't over cap and waste it.
if your next cast would overcap, you need to revenge or IP
tropic gorge
I just know since BFA ive had Shout and Avatar on the same macro
My avatar button I call it the boom button. It'll use avatar, on use trinket and a str pot from the cauldron
fresh igloo
so it depends on how close you are to which cap your talents are working with.
tropic gorge
It's giga threat and I love it
unique kelp
cause as mist all my healing depends on my dmg
I tried something new yesterday with my group that worked well. I had melee stack on me (boss was turned to the side, not all the way back), and I spun the boss for the shards. That way, when the knockback happened, everyone (melee) was stacked and the bos ran to us.
naive panther
noticed final boss in halls trucks. I had spell block, reflected the knock back, but that dot almost owned me with wall and last stand. Assuming handling it incorrectly
fresh igloo
better to reflect the ability right after the knockback
naive panther
timing always the same on it?
fresh igloo
it's much more dangerous/big damage
fresh igloo
timing always the same on it?
think so
naive panther
first knock back I taunted and charged
fresh igloo
first knock back I taunted and charged
do that for every knock back, then reflect after
naive panther
but if that dot is reflectable I need to get some timers to know when it's coming
unique kelp
God, I'm such an idiot. I just realized I can avoid the frontal on the first bos...
❤️ omg
fresh igloo
but if that dot is reflectable I need to get some timers to know when it's comin...
timers really help, but I'm fairly sure it always casts after the knockback ability.
just save your reflect for it.
unique kelp
```/cast [@targettarget] Intervene``` should just work
Oh this is neat, hadn't considered this. Thanks for that.
naive panther
thanks mac
bitter herald
but if that dot is reflectable I need to get some timers to know when it's comin...
also does damage back when reflected
very worth
crude notch
alex got his name pog
thorny finch
Is there a resource I could use for good spell reflect angles
crude notch
yes in the pins there's a sheet
bitter herald
just send it and listen for the sound 😛
fresh igloo
don't let things hit you from behind, like everything prot warrior
tidal nimbus
for bis stats (soz if i already asked)
should i prio haste
and balance crit and vers/
fresh igloo
haste crit is good. vers is fine. mastery is .... fine.
you want a little of everything but focus haste and crit
bitter herald
haste crit means arms off spec
crude notch
The answer doesn't change
bitter herald
still worth simming stuff for damage
crude notch
they were just randomly commenting
bitter herald
but yeah what they said
cerulean tusk
I am really tempted to do this, but I get anxious any time I don't have them on ...
Hide clutter, ya don't nee d the training wheels
uneven mason
I am really tempted to do this, but I get anxious any time I don't have them on ...
Hide the bars, run heroics to acclimate yourself and train your eyes to avoid looking down
crude notch
if you're still looking down at abilities on your bar while having a WA sounds like the WA is missing something.
uneven mason
Hotkey number
tidal nimbus
so haszte and crit
unique kelp
if you're still looking down at abilities on your bar while having a WA sounds l...
No, it's all tracked there, it's just a bad habit that I've never fully shaken.
strong forum
Didn't put enough space between you and the ring
You need to get farther away, to get enough verticality
craggy pilot
yea i was right next to the initial ring
the one that spawns first
and then insta jumped when the small one came
modern brook
Jump leap remains best tech in the game
craggy pilot
16 drops Champion gear right?
craggy pilot
Jump leap remains best tech in the game
ah good shout tbh
modern brook
17s are the beginning of hero track dungeon rewarss
craggy pilot
yea
doing 17s because of gear drops
but all my gear cant be upgraded cus i have 0 wyrm 🤣
but i wanna keep doing 17s because better gear 🤔
modern brook
You just spam 17s and drop the Aspects to wyrms adhoc
sick sentinel
is rage potion also good for dungeons?
craggy pilot
You just spam 17s and drop the Aspects to wyrms adhoc
true 😄 but then i will probably end up running out of Aspects in the end
modern brook
You need very few aspects
craggy pilot
You need very few aspects
yea i noticed, because only the 5/5 is Aspects
modern brook
After the 8 (12) for crafting, each aspect represents 3 ilvls
rustic tinsel
If anything you’ll run out of wyrm well before aspect
craggy pilot
the ratio of these crests is rly weird
craggy pilot
After the 8 (12) for crafting, each aspect represents 3 ilvls
2 embelish items, 1 well fed item, and Engi wrists 🤔
so 16 aspect for crafting
unique kelp
Yeah, it would be nice if the gear could be upgraded from the crests at the same track. So Hero gear that drops 17-20 should be upgraded only with Aspects. In my opinion.
craggy pilot
i have crafted chest, and crafted cloak as well
so potentially could use 24 for crafted, but then i end up missing Sparks
modern brook
rustic tinsel
Man I don’t want to do m zskarn 
craggy pilot
or just make the last 2 upgrades be aspect, or make the last one cost 2 crests, just something to balance this ratio
and 150 pr week is quite high with the current setup
and only getting 12 pr dungeon :<
rustic tinsel
I feel like key level definitely should be a factor in how many crests you get
Feels really odd that it’s flat
rustic tinsel
Spamming 11s for wyrms
crystal mauve
is rage potion also good for dungeons?
rage potion?
craggy pilot
and maybe 17 should give both Wyrm + Aspect 🤔
crystal mauve
I feel like key level definitely should be a factor in how many crests you get
You should get lower crests if you are capped on the higher ones when finishing key. It's not even complicated to setup...
rustic tinsel
I just don’t want to do braindead content over and over
craggy pilot
You should get lower crests if you are capped on the higher ones when finishing ...
oh yea that could work too
rustic tinsel
Overall, the upgrade system is banger though
crystal mauve
True
rustic tinsel
I hope it stays in this shame/form and has the kinks worked out over time
craggy pilot
100% true
unique kelp
Yeah, I still love the system. Best system they've ever added for gearing.
craggy pilot
its just slightly too OP currently, and slightly too grindy
rustic tinsel
It’s really good for catching alts up rather quickly
crystal mauve
its just slightly too OP currently, and slightly too grindy
Make the upgrade tied to you IO (or boss killed in raid) and the crest drop regardless of content and it's perfect
unique kelp
If they'd just give M+ a better way to get Tier, then I'd be happy. Even if it's like the crafted gear, it takes 4x (or more) crests to upgrade, instead of just waiting for the crucible that's several weeks late.
rustic tinsel
If they'd just give M+ a better way to get Tier, then I'd be happy. Even if it's...
Agreed, M+ and pvp tier acquisition are bastard childs to raid
Feels bad that technically there are people who still may have no tier if they don’t raid and didn’t get it in vault
unique kelp
It's bad enough that several strong trinkets drop in raid, but I'm not even upset about that. You go where the drops are for specific items like that, but Tier is so important to every type of content.
rustic tinsel
They really should just have the catalyst go live like 2-3 weeks into the patch
Or add better ways to get tier
unique kelp
IMO it should be tied to World First Mythic. Once that's cleared by a guild, then it's like a celebration.
crude notch
M+ tier acquisition has only gotten better each season since tier has been back
unique kelp
Would even drive more participation/activity to World First race.
crystal mauve
What if we had a dedicated extra slot for borrowed power item that you unlock through a combinaison of quest/storyline (and some amout of performance such as M+ score or raid boss killed by diffculty?)
craggy pilot
i got it on both my toons on like 3rd week
2k omni token is insane
and i feel i get a ton of Tier pieces in vault if i just fill it with 8 m+
unique kelp
Yeah, it helps, but I've only gotten one piece from Vault, so it's still an issue.
A buddy of mine who's in a Mythic raid guild told me that "Everyone who wants tier has it, so Crucible is really only for Alts". I had to remind him that not everyone gets 3 full clears of raid per week.
crystal mauve
and i feel i get a ton of Tier pieces in vault if i just fill it with 8 m+
Some in my guild are still to see a tiere piece with 3 M+ vault options since day 1 (I don't know how unlucky that is but it's a weekly joke now)
rustic tinsel
Ive gotten 1 tier in my m+ vaults this tier despite doing 8+ a week
Doesn’t matter bc I raid but I digress
craggy pilot
Some in my guild are still to see a tiere piece with 3 M+ vault options since da...
lol thats kinda wild 😄
unique kelp
Yeah, anecdotal evidence be anecdotal. I know several people who get 2-3 pieces of Tier per vault. And I know others who've not seen one.
That's why I say Crucible early. Doesn't hurt the people that already have the tier, but it gives options to those who didn't get lucky.
crude notch
Except that not what the catalyst is for
tidal nimbus
just saw the m+ sheet for reflecting
crystal mauve
What I hate about the vault is when you have the exact same item equiped as a choice. Last week with the three options I had in my vault two of them where exact copies of what I had equipped already. Luckily the last one was good tho
tidal nimbus
i have a new refound love for prot warrior
tidal nimbus
Yup
will do!
and assuming some crit/ver or ver/crit items would be fine to but prio crit n haste
crude notch
Like I don't know how many times they have to say it before people realize it, but the catalyst is there for BLP.
unique kelp
Except that not what the catalyst is for
Even if it's not been that way traditionally, what's the problem with using the Catalyst as a method of Tier acquisition? It's one piece per week, it's not like it's game breaking.
crystal mauve
Like I don't know how many times they have to say it before people realize it, b...
BLP?
crude notch
Bad luck protection
crystal mauve
thx
rustic tinsel
The problem with it is the BLP feels too late into the tier for it to actually be helpful at a large scale
I get the purpose, it’s timing just feels off
crude notch
Even if it's not been that way traditionally, what's the problem with using the ...
That's not what it's designed for
unique kelp
That's not what it's designed for
Sure, and the vault used to not have 9 slots, but changes can be made to improve the game, even if the original design decision changes.
Why are sole-PvP/M+ players punished for not raiding?
dusky canopy
You can be unlucky or you can have all your luck in one night
crude notch
Comparing tier acquisition to the vault change is silly because THEY'VE LITERALLY CHANGED TIER ACQUISITION TOO
dusky canopy
I didn’t get 4pc until this reset
And I got 3 pieces this reset
Clearing 8/9 heroic up until this week now 9/9 and filling vault with 20s
unique kelp
Comparing tier acquisition to the vault change is silly because THEY'VE LITERALL...
Yeah, and I think those are good changes. Tier in Vault, Tier in Catalyst are great changes. I'm just saying that I think Catalyst should open earlier, especially with how build-defining Tier is.
dusky canopy
I personally would like catalyst at launch and 1 charge per week for the first 4 weeks
cinder pasture
I still only have 3set 
craggy pilot
I personally would like catalyst at launch and 1 charge per week for the first 4...
i doubt it will ever happen
they have said this multiple times no?
they dont want CC to be "main way of getting tier" for anyone
crude notch
They're gonna keep doing changes to other ways of acquiring before they move that date
dusky canopy
They don’t want to do it because they want people to do the raid
craggy pilot
its a catchup thing
dusky canopy
It is the only reason it’s the way it is now imo
crystal mauve
I personally would like catalyst at launch and 1 charge per week for the first 4...
That would be a bit quick, you still want your players to enjoy the game for a little bit but there is a middle between this and 6 weeks before anything. I shouldb't become a Diablo3 thing were you get full gear in one weekend and don't play anymore
crude notch
If that was the case an Omni token wouldn't be tied to m+ rating
unique kelp
It's just my opinion. I get that Catalyst wasn't designed as a primary or even secondary method of Tier acquisition. I just disagree with it. If M+/PvP can acquire Tier more than one piece per week without relying on luck, then I'd be happy with that, too.
dusky canopy
Maybe I’m alone on this but I enjoy the game more when I don’t have to worry about gear
prisma crane
That would be a bit quick, you still want your players to enjoy the game for a l...
1 slot of 16 per WEEK is too fast?
crude notch
You're not alone and I'm not disagreeing with your opinion but like acting like things haven't vastly changed regarding tier since legion is funny
unique kelp
I don't mind chasing gear, but Tier is such a big part of your class that not having it feels BAD.
dusky canopy
Oh things have absolutely changed for the better yea
crude notch
And clown shoes level of dramatic
unique kelp
You're not alone and I'm not disagreeing with your opinion but like acting like ...
Oh, I wasn't saying that. Sorry if I implied that. I was just saying that things can change from their initial design, sorry.
dusky canopy
Tier acquisition is insanely quick now
Even without catalyst
But you can still be unlucky
And you can’t really be competitive without it
crude notch
Oh, I wasn't saying that. Sorry if I implied that. I was just saying that things...
You're literally just not listening
I'm quite literally repetitively saying
They've clearly changed their design on tier acquisition
crystal mauve
1 slot of 16 per WEEK is too fast?
Well you need only 4 not 16 to get your 4P and you do have the options to get other tokens from other sources, I understand they still want us to work a bit for it
crude notch
And they're saying that the problem isn't the release date of catalyst
It's the acquisition of tier from other forms
vivid abyss
so I am using this ring with socket + annulet... and i just simmed replacing annulet with 441 Skyshard Ring version for Dungeon slice, the result is that dropping annulet is -1600 dps for dungeon slice... however in pings it is mentioned that 440+ rings will replace annulet... is the dungeon slice not correct or the pins are not describing every situation?
the skyshard ring
dusky canopy
I also think it would be cool to be able to loot 1 tier token from a end of dungeon chest per week not guaranteed but have a chance at the very least
crude notch
I think there should be two breakpoints for m+ for which you get a token
sick sentinel
rage potion?
sry meant corrupting rage flask
prisma crane
Well you need only 4 not 16 to get your 4P and you do have the options to get ot...
4 weeks is still a month, and you'll want to use charges for "better" items as you get them as well, the bulk of the issue is that many classes feel terrible without the tier and this game is far removed from gearing being the journey itself, it's a means to an end
crystal mauve
For M+ tier, you could have a chance of getting a tier piece instead of a regular loot in the end of dungeon loot (limited to one tier/week maybe?)
prisma crane
I think there should be two breakpoints for m+ for which you get a token
adding a token to the 2500 would be nice, they could then even drop the first to 1800 or something