protection

[dusky canopy]

And since ilvl is king

[lusty grotto]

not for the versa context

[dusky canopy]

You end up with more Vers than you’d prefer

But it’s not bad

[lusty grotto]

you dont need versa for 20 to 24ish

[tropic gorge]

Oh well yeah. I'm not running big boy 20s.so I don't worry about vers much

[lusty grotto]

anything higher than that, you probably will

[dusky canopy]

You would need like 60% Vers to lower the difficulty by 1 key level

[jagged pier]

well they arent technically, they are for a lot of ppl but in a game of scaling like keys do like the difference between a 22-23 is more than like a 17-20 key. so kinda they arent but in terms of stats they are in terms of player base

[dusky canopy]

Like guys it’s very irrelevant

[lusty grotto]

right jakey but im talking about it with the context of needing versa

[tropic gorge]

Who needs vers when you can be a glorious dwarf with the best tank racial

Bahahaha

[broken juniper]

does somebody know if the tank debuff from Forgotten Experiment is Spell Blockable?
On the sheet it only says it's "Shield Blockable" for the physical portion I assume.
On mythic the guy fucking hurts with 6-7-8 stacks

[lusty grotto]

the dot? no

[jagged pier]

oh at some point u want vers, but thats like 26-27s but even saying that i think andy was R1 with 10% vers last season

so

🤷

[dusky canopy]

Yes

[jagged pier]

wtf do i know

[lusty grotto]

yup

[dusky canopy]

Iirc

[uncut thunder]

Check pins there is a very good sheet that shows you all that is blockable and reflect

[broken juniper]

so yes or no, im getting mixed result lol

[dusky canopy]

No

[lusty grotto]

Nervosity the damage youre taking is from the dot, it's NOT spell blockable

[jagged pier]

its a no

[tropic gorge]

Abusing spell reflect on the fire dude for the experiment fight is glorious

[broken juniper]

that is the sheet im refering

[final mist]

There's two parts to the ability

[jagged pier]

it just blocks the magic part of the first hit

[final mist]

It'd a melee hit

And then a dot

[broken juniper]

thank you

[final mist]

You Block the melee hit

Not the dot it applies

[broken juniper]

yeah i got the physical portion part

the magic debuff i wasnt sure cause I know the sarkareth debuff is spell blockable

[lusty grotto]

the ONLY dots that are spell blockable in Aberrus are Sarkareth's

[jagged pier]

thats the only dot

[broken juniper]

kk

[uncut thunder]

I sent this somewhat relative? On a lower caliber team not doing stops and heals perfectly, vers might have a stronger weight vs a higher team?

[lusty grotto]

zskarn will chunk you, experiments will chunk you

[lusty grotto]

no

[dusky canopy]

You’re left to the healers mercy

It’s unfortunate

[jagged pier]

nah no amount of vers is gunna save u on lower keys

u need bfa levels for it to do something really

[tropic gorge]

I really like the raid encounter, name I forget but the dude does the triple strike into the tank

[broken juniper]

yeah tbh im scared of mythic zcarn a lot

[tropic gorge]

That so fsr is my favorite boss encounter

[lusty grotto]

echo is the best fight imo

the rest are okay

[tropic gorge]

I get bored during the echo fight. Lining up wall kicks is cool and I do like the portal part

And dps not stacking and getting shut out always makes me chuckle

[uncut thunder]

Yeah it’s tough on heroic for me atm

[tropic gorge]

"guess you shouldn't be eye humping the meters"

[lusty grotto]

i mean babysitting dps doesnt mean the fight is bad

🤷

[azure light]

Quick question: Does avoidance help reduce periodic dmg from a raid encounter (like oblivion stacks) or is it strictly reducing aoe dmg intake?

[lusty grotto]

aoe only

therefore we dont really use it

[tropic gorge]

Ah it's like the rest oft he 3rd stats

[azure light]

Ty, was for a mage friend

[tropic gorge]

If you get it, cool. If not, whatever

Avoidance is very good for dps

They should absolutely go for it

Esp in keys

[ashen coral]

Ok so I have done the sim for thunderlord as i said before

This time the result was different, I did two sim per talent build, one with single target and one with 5 targets, I forgot to change the time (I put 2 minutes because I thought it was realistic for single target for a M+ boss, I don’t think it would drastically change the result for 30s but maybe I am wrong)

So I lost 1.4% dps on single target by swapping show of force for thunderlord (so with the future buff it may change), and 3.5% dps on aoe

So I do think it could be a good option after tomorrow since currently the dps difference is low, and I also think this little dps doesn’t compensate the gain in survivability and in rage

Here are the links :
-Single target, no tl : https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8to3KZMxofcX9svb7X5sj4
-5 targets, no tl : https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qXB4PdvL2CHr6ohe17Y8Zw
-Single target, tl : https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/1NvcB2s5AUkjVHMAAydU3L
-5 targets, tl : https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tqkS8BWdHi7JuCp7UZXokX

Also, I still have the 2p of the last raid, and I don’t have the 4p of the current raid but only 2p, it could change things because of the revenge which become less needed (and show of force would be less relevant if we use less revenge)
I don’t know if the simulation tries to play around season 1 2p, and the desync of demo with cd could be compensated with the shieldwave which is not synced with demo anyway (so the dps depends less on cd)

[lusty grotto]

if your dps doesnt have avoidance enchants, they are doing it bad

[tropic gorge]

Ya

[lusty grotto]

holy wall of text

[tropic gorge]

Dps needs it. We really dont

[lusty grotto]

thunderlord is a no-go

i commend you for looking at numbers but realistically it'd be hard to line up demo shout accurately

[spring ermine]

Line up with what?

[lusty grotto]

avatar

[urban portal]

mainly shield charge tbh

avatar isnt meant to be lined up cuz of AM

and you send that shit on cd

[jagged pier]

if u run TL u send demo on CD

[lusty grotto]

avatar lines up

[spring ermine]

You just use demo shout on cd usually.

[jagged pier]

u dont hold it

[lusty grotto]

45s is enough to line up with AM'd avatar

[jagged pier]

your wasting a talent point then

[spring ermine]

Exactly.

[plush tendon]

yall may be crit haste gang, but ima haste mastery lad now

for dat fury offspec

[lusty grotto]

with TL

not without it

it lines up with avatar

[jagged pier]

u always send demo on CD regardless of talent tbh

[plush tendon]

wait, you hold Demo for Ava? I just send it on CD with SC?

[ashen coral]

In the simulation with thunderlord i think it was just used on cd, if the cd reduction is improved (and it will tomorrow) it could compensate the desync

Also with more haste (I can get 40% soon) the reduction of the cd could be even better

[jagged pier]

like u should

[plush tendon]

[lusty grotto]

im not saying hold it

im saying it lines up

guys cmon

[quasi lintel]

are the buffs not live?

[ashen coral]

Not yet

[plush tendon]

for America they are

[jagged pier]

not in the eu

in na they are

[quasi lintel]

oh who gives a fuck about EU

[plush tendon]

https://tenor.com/view/freedoms-internally-freedom-freedoms-eagle-america-gif-23711012

[quasi lintel]

get fucked losers

[lusty grotto]

holy shit lmao

[plush tendon]

yea, EU so bad they a whole day behind

catch up losers

[lusty grotto]

at least they get the beta tested version

[plush tendon]

[jagged pier]

we get trading post first tho

and we dont need to beta test

[lusty grotto]

and non-disabled keys lmaoooo

[plush tendon]

there was a brief moment of no affix keys

[lusty grotto]

but yeah murica lets go

[plush tendon]

truly a legendary experience

[hazy bronze]

Imagine not having the freedom to bankrupt yourself from medical bills

[plush tendon]

yea, but at least for the next.... 22 hours or so I do more damage then a EU prot war

[proper roost]

based

[ashen coral]

But you have taken the battering ram nerf earlier

[valid sundial]

How do you get dps trinkets out of the vault?

[modern brook]

open in dps spec

[lusty grotto]

be dps loot spec

[cinder storm]

Imagine not having the freedom to bankrupt yourself

[lusty grotto]

i mean you only need it for anvil and mark

btf

the rest drop for prot

[valid sundial]

did that and now I have 3 two handers in there...

[quasi lintel]

sorry given what we discussed earlier, should my Bstance uptime be like 95%?

unless I find myself undergeared in a dungeon?

[lusty grotto]

yeah well that's me like 2 weeks in a row

[plush tendon]

that was soooooo last tuning patch ago

get with the times

[urban portal]

yes mostly bstance

[plush tendon]

stick in B-Stance; D-Stance should be treated as a toggle defensive when you need it

[cinder storm]

If you are learning the class and dungeons its ok to stay in dstance, but staying in bstance most of the time will help you understand better what is danger and what is not

[plush tendon]

I wouldnt recommend that tbh

[spring ermine]

How much haste do you lads have?

[plush tendon]

learn to use the macro to swap in and out

when needed

[quasi lintel]

jesus

Crit 21%
Haste 31%
Mastery 21%
Vers 13%
Leech 13%

[plush tendon]

damn, thats a fat I level

ive been slacking

only 336 XD

[lusty grotto]

that's with buffs

[quasi lintel]

I feel like my stats are disgusting and I took crit being a good idea too seriously

[ashen coral]

Is it with the talent buff or without ? Just give me your account pls

[lusty grotto]

his screenshot is at least

[urban portal]

hes 36% haste with gear

[lusty grotto]

its with buffs

[urban portal]

its kinda nuts

[quasi lintel]

Peep the pride month mog too

[spring ermine]

@ashen coral its with into the fray, yes. Raw stat is 38 % haste.

[plush tendon]

balanced stats are the way to go

[modern brook]

im porbably the same, im kissing 40% with talents, no ITF

[plush tendon]

or whatever the sims says

though haste is the msot fun

[cinder storm]

Why are there so many disc priest nowadays, before they were a rare breed

[restive crown]

is dungeons fixed?

[quasi lintel]

yes (na) not sure about EU

[restive crown]

aw

[unkempt rover]

this is simming higher than anulet, do I use instead?

[restive crown]

already give io nw?

[unkempt rover]

@strong forum

[toxic pewter]

is that confirmed? I just went into a uldaman and it had no affixes still

[quasi lintel]

I just did a BH and it had sanguine

but now i'm in Underrot

and there's no affixes

small indie company

[toxic pewter]

ok yeah still messed up

im not running anything until it is fixed, I dont want this blotch on my record

[uncut thunder]

With the T30 2P what do we see our Last stand CD getting down to?

[fresh igloo]

like 1 minute ish

[worthy karma]

how bad is lariat these days?

[uncut thunder]

I think it depends on how many sockets you have overall

[uncut thunder]

Thanks. I estimated this to be the case but wanted to check

[fresh igloo]

yeah if you're fully socketed out it can get back up to fairly strong, but also there's other good options.

[worthy karma]

currently i have the verse braces and lariat. should i replace them for something else?

[mighty valley]

I think you need 8ish sockets across your gear to get lariat back to s1 strength

[uncut thunder]

Don’t talk about verse here they will punish you.

[fresh igloo]

sim it, see what's better for your gear

[spring ermine]

Well you need all sockets to get lariat back to full strength.

[fresh igloo]

usually it's unstable frostfire + shadowflame, or shadowflame x2

[uncut thunder]

Dang. 8 wow. Decent nerf. Just wish I could get any decent neck to drop for me.

[fresh igloo]

craft a neck

should have access to multiple shadowflame sparks by now

[uncut thunder]

Hum. Not bad idea. I had not considered it.

[fresh igloo]

crafted slots are excellent in s2. you can get to 447 ilvl and tune the stats to your desired setup.

so unless you are getting mythic raid drops, it's the best option you have for many slots outside of lucky vaults.

[fluid beacon]

Just quick sim.

But latest is definitely current.

Also I forgot to equip annulet. So I went from about 72k last week to 78k this week in sim

[uncut thunder]

Yeah I have just not even looked at anything outside of the Lariet. I’ll have to go check.

[toxic pewter]

any chance those arms buffs to rend and deep wounds transferred over to prot also? 😛

[plush tendon]

55%

[strong forum]

u sure youre simming correctly?

cuz on ST, no way does that ring outperform annulet

no shot in fucking hell is an unsocketed haste vers ring more dmg than annulet

[craggy pilot]

what are the best Necks for us from M+? 🤔 i cant find any crit/haste combo neck

[strong forum]

bromach neck from uldaman

is the only high haste neck in the game

every other neck in the game is low haste big smth else

[lusty grotto]

yeah im using VP neck

but low haste sadly

[craggy pilot]

haste vers?

[strong forum]

thats why i crafted neck

[lusty grotto]

right

[strong forum]

cba getting shit necks

[craggy pilot]

just normal crafted? or lariat?

like i have lariat currently

i could just upgrade it 🤔

[strong forum]

normal.

lariat is poop unless you have 8 sockets on gear

[craggy pilot]

sad i cant put Shadowflame on neck

[craggy pilot]

i have only 6 😦

how do you get 8? 😮

[next yacht]

So from tommorow we play with thunderlord in any situation in m+?

[strong forum]

3 on neck, 1 on helm, 1 on gloves, 1 on wrist 2 on ring

[craggy pilot]

gloves can have socket now 😮

and wrist? 😮

[strong forum]

wait belt

belt, not gloves

but wrists could always have sockets

[craggy pilot]

oh ye i have on my wrist i see

lol

so im only missing on helm

7 gems

[strong forum]

-1 str gem

[craggy pilot]

i took socket last week

idk i think ill save Lariat

also i have Crit Haste helmet, just waiting for that socket item 😄

[strong forum]

well tier is also crit haste

[craggy pilot]

if i add gem to helmet, and put it in CC eventually

it will keep it i guess

[strong forum]

will keep gem

[green bronze]

how do you guys survive basilisk in uldaman? Desperately need some tips

[craggy pilot]

wait wtf, why does wowhead list Homeland Raid Horn as BIS trinket? 🤔

[craggy pilot]

kite + stuns

[daring marlin]

sim bait

it sux

[craggy pilot]

thought thats what i head here before

[lusty grotto]

be dwarf

[daring marlin]

Don't trust it--it splits the damage if it hits you too.

[green bronze]

how often can dwarf remove bleeds?

[lusty grotto]

2 mins

[craggy pilot]

my gear is so weird, low ilvl wrist+rings that sim high because they have sockets in them 😄

was considering doing Shadowflame on Wrist, and swapping out Lariat

[lusty grotto]

the trinket game is rough

[craggy pilot]

i have some shit trinkets from this season in my bag

kinda annoying

[spring ermine]

dwarf racial, spell block, stun, kite

[lusty grotto]

spell block doesnt do shit for bleeds

[rough spruce]

Wait, spell block?

[craggy pilot]

Signoll Flare, Festering Splinter, Homeland Raid Horn, and Vial

[rough spruce]

For a bleed

[spring ermine]

yeah actually nvm about spell block

[craggy pilot]

@lusty grotto i guess these are bad right? 😄

[lusty grotto]

i use vial

[craggy pilot]

i simmed all

[green bronze]

i use mark of dargrul, kinda not bad, 4% damage overall

[craggy pilot]

and they sim less than Whetstone

[proper roost]

signoll is fine

an upgraded signoll should easily beat your whetstone

[lusty grotto]

he doesnt have mark

signal

[proper roost]

ur probably simming lowest ilvl version for w/e reason

[craggy pilot]

tried to sim, it doesnt

[lusty grotto]

its spelled signal

[proper roost]

ok what ilvl did you sim it

[craggy pilot]

no

[lusty grotto]

signal sims assume youll land all hits

[proper roost]

:starege:

[lusty grotto]

well

lmao

either way

[proper roost]

Well well well

[lusty grotto]

sims lie for signoll

[proper roost]

Now who has the ravioli on their face

Wrong

[craggy pilot]

because they are Gnolls ofc

get it? 😄

[lusty grotto]

no

im not

they still assume you land all hits

[proper roost]

Ok how does signoll lie

No shit its a st trinket

[lusty grotto]

i just said it twice

??????

[proper roost]

whetstone assumes you land all ticks too

Shock

[lusty grotto]

im confused here lmao

the fuck

[craggy pilot]

i sim 428 ilvl

[proper roost]

U sure are

[spring ermine]

Run lair and vortex until you got mark of dargul and heart of thunder, dont bother simmimg meme signoll

[craggy pilot]

because thats max i can upgrade to right now

[proper roost]

What

[lusty grotto]

im sorry how hard is it to land all hits with whetstone??

[crude notch]

Any duration trinket is gonna sim assuming you well last the duration

[craggy pilot]

i have no crests

[proper roost]

how hard do u think it is to hit signoll procs

[craggy pilot]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/d9zVD2Li9GkdXjuQJisqKu

[lusty grotto]

so you move every single fucking mob to the swirlies in a key? is that right?

fucking clown

[proper roost]

...

read

the

[crude notch]

They're not swirlies

[proper roost]

trinket

:icant:

[crude notch]

You're clearly thinking of a different trinket nim

[green bronze]

i think he is talking about horn from uld

[craggy pilot]

youre thinking of Homeland Raid Horn

[proper roost]

He literally linked the trinket and u still think its homeland raid horn

JFC

[lusty grotto]

yes yes

i see

[craggy pilot]

🤔

🍿

[proper roost]

Clown ass shit ong

[toxic pewter]

my fav trinket is dragongames balls, love kicking balls

[crude notch]

It's okay nim I still love you

[lusty grotto]

fuck off

[crude notch]

Heck the haters

[toxic pewter]

[craggy pilot]

https://tenor.com/view/eating-popcorn-gif-19625319

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wqjaTtsFP4LMBT7iQTemKg

ok simmed 437 this time

still only Memehorn is an upgrade 😄

i guess i keep Moiststone

[spring ermine]

single target sim only

[craggy pilot]

how many sims do you want me to run wtf

youre burning out my raidbots premium

[lusty grotto]

5t 1.5 min no lust

for keys

or 1 min is fine

[green bronze]

but st is more important

[spring ermine]

kek

no

[daring marlin]

the fuck it is

[brittle owl]

7 ish years or so of raidbots

[spring ermine]

st dps confirmed most important for prot warr

[brittle owl]

people still don't know how to use it

[daring marlin]

TRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUEEEEEEEEEEEE

oh hell yes

assault zerg in this pug

[lusty grotto]

maybe people didnt know about it, there's a 1st time for everyone

[daring marlin]

let's fucking GO

[spring ermine]

ok lads who has some numbers for tough as nails

overall % damage done

how much is it

[acoustic oasis]

Drop it homie, let it go.

[brittle owl]

[acoustic oasis]

Its not in the talents anymore.

Last stand cd reduction or bust

[spring ermine]

you can get both

[acoustic oasis]

Nani?

[crude notch]

What the shit is this take?

There's tons of people that didn't start playing this game until after raidbots came out

[quasi lintel]

yall got a good WA to track the 20 seconds after Last Stand?

[cinder storm]

@toxic pewter I saw people using lay on hands on afflicted

[proper roost]

raidbots has changed a lot over the years as well

[toxic pewter]

LOL

[crude notch]

Not to mention like 1% of players sim at all anyways.

[proper roost]

back when i was playing and it first came out it was way more barebones

[craggy pilot]

"yo i can handle 1 afflicted every 7min ok"

[toxic pewter]

I also saw someone do it the first day

[fresh igloo]

https://xkcd.com/1053/

xkcd: Ten Thousand

Saying 'what kind of an idiot doesn't know about the Yellowstone supervolcano' is so much more boring than telling someone about the Yellowstone supervolcano for the first time.

[brittle owl]

basic principles of raidbots is still the same

[fresh igloo]

teach people who are willing to learn.

[proper roost]

its way more straightforward now but still kinda high barrier to entry of understanding it

[crude notch]

I loh'd one just for you bb @toxic pewter

[proper roost]

once u vault the barrier you forget it existed
elitism take

[toxic pewter]

its the smart play

[proper roost]

very "pull the ladder up" after you

[brittle owl]

@ionic fern what's with all the snowflakes is prot meta again

[crude notch]

You now get the crayon eater cap.

[brittle owl]

who are you even

[daring marlin]

back in my day we typed everything into the simcraft app by hand

mumble grumble

[crude notch]

Old folks home needs to gather yo ass up

Time to take your meds gramps

[fresh igloo]

did you download the actual executable to your desktop in wrath

[daring marlin]

yep

LMAO

[fresh igloo]

that was a whole mess wasn't it

lol

[brittle owl]

wrath simcraft 🤮

[proper roost]

back in my day we just followed theorycrafter statweights that were generated from one instance of gear and literally never deviated even tho it prob wasnt even remotely right

better times

[lusty grotto]

just go to elitistjerks.com

ez

[daring marlin]

IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIION

[crude notch]

Still typing

[quartz mist]

any thoughts

[toxic pewter]

Say what you want about Ion, he is a gamer

[daring marlin]

I love Ion.

[proper roost]

is he tho

[toxic pewter]

Yah, I think he is awesome

[proper roost]

idk if he actively raids nowadays but in legion he was a green/gray parser

[toxic pewter]

oh

LOL

[proper roost]

Smh casual trash

[toxic pewter]

well awkward

[strong forum]

He's still gaming

[toxic pewter]

still I like him

[crude notch]

Still better than kanga. Gottem

[strong forum]

Elitist jerks is his guild

And he's RL

[toxic pewter]

I mean that is legendary status in my book

[quartz mist]

do i replace with annulet or, have a 428 cloak so i think im taking a 441 cloak.

[strong forum]

His guilds progress is usually the golden standard when bosses get nerfed on mythic

[proper roost]

it was pretty funny in legion (first couple tiers) bcs people kept trying to look him up to see how his character was doing with legendary rng

[strong forum]

[lusty grotto]

i remember wodin

he was a rogue

a troll rogue ofc

hell im ancient

i remember Fires of Heaven's site

for EQ1

where Furor posted his raid rants

(for eq1 raids)

[crude notch]

Well whatever he's playing it's not his shaman that's for sure

[proper roost]

Okay thanks grandpa. Now eat your vegetables, tonight is bingo night

[lusty grotto]

captain overwatch was there too

and thott the bard

[toxic pewter]

lol

[lusty grotto]

aka the guy that made thottbot

[toxic pewter]

back in my day..

[crude notch]

Ion's shammy still 60

[toxic pewter]

what ion's shammy name

[crude notch]

Gurgthock

[toxic pewter]

ohh wow

[lusty grotto]

yeah like the ring of glory events

and FP's shark boss

him and wodin are always up there

[pastel cedar]

For raid annulet is BIS for mythic take the 440 ring

[toxic pewter]

wtf did blizzard do to m+ dungeons seems they really needed fixing

[oak heath]

I am looking at the recommended M+ build from the sticky and I am wondering if it is justifiable to skill into Dispruting Shout because I don't trust pugs for emergency interrupting. I thought about not picking Battering Ram for it, but I bet there are better talents not to pick instead?

[toxic pewter]

I bet Ion only plays valorant and minecraft nowadays

[crude notch]

I'd change my characters name every two weeks if I was him

[proper roost]

blizzard game players are the most unhinged people

[crude notch]

Newsh was getting death threats on Twitter about Zskarn

[proper roost]

people will make death threats because their vault was bad and shit

[crude notch]

Lol that timing

[proper roost]

like ok dude touch grass unironically

[daring marlin]

https://tenor.com/view/touching-grass-touch-gif-21219969

[crude notch]

Literally first raid boss he designed and he's getting death threats then people are like "wow devs don't communicate"

[sick sentinel]

YOU STOLE MY FUCKING CLOUDSONG

i can't post that here but, yeah

[chilly brook]

zskarn good boss

people just mad they cant cheese anymore

[strong forum]

People who threaten anybody about any fictional things are among the worst kind of terminally online people

[acoustic oasis]

Zskarn is....a boss.

[crude notch]

Well it doesn't matter how bad of a boss is designed. You don't deserve death threats.

[strong forum]

Like how terrible of a human being do you have to be

[toxic pewter]

Yeah they need to be on some watch list tbh

they one bad vault from doing something really bad

[strong forum]

To verbally abuse someone like that

[strong forum]

99/100 times they're too pussy to do anything

Anonymity is a drug

[toxic pewter]

thats also a good point

yes

[sick sentinel]

i think when you consider the nature of the games goals, how it can be and is played by players, and the rarity of some items, i can see someone say "im g oing to kill you because you stole XYZ trinket and the bracers from me"

i feel like, that is, totally inevitable

[toxic pewter]

O_O

[strong forum]

That's just a person that lost control over their life

[sick sentinel]

i don't think its right at all, just, i could see somebody doing that

[strong forum]

Sure you can be mad about it

But there's a diff between a fuck you

And I'll kill you

A very large one

[toxic pewter]

indeed

[chilly brook]

like me when shitters who don't even press buttons in lfr get tier over me early on in the patch

[crude notch]

that's when you wish their socks are always wet

not death

[strong forum]

I don't even get mad over that

What's worse is when somebody steals an item they clearly don't need

[daring marlin]

L M A O

I GOT RASHOK'S

[chilly brook]

I mean I do because otherwise LFR is literally a waste of time

[crude notch]

Guilford did they fix keys?

[chilly brook]

like fuck

I hate doing LFR

[crude notch]

oh wait

they disabled keys

nvm

[chilly brook]

it's worse when the one thing you went to it for goes to some dude AFK

[crude notch]

i go to lunch and keys are disabled, wtf y'all do

[sick sentinel]

i often try to trade people excess gear i loot and dont need but its not always successful

[crude notch]

it's been two hours?? wtf

[harsh haven]

Does anyone know if shard of Rokmora is worth it for a def trinket? 447 in vault but not sure if i wanna swap out my 437 Talisman of the Cragshaper for it

[modern brook]

there is no "nice" when i can roll dice smhmh

if need is there im needing bro

[strong forum]

thats when i say" yeah but i need for tmog"

[modern brook]

fuck the team 😠

[strong forum]

[chilly brook]

there were no affixes lol

[sick sentinel]

BLIZZARD: Go do 4 mythic dungeons we will give you a good raid reward!
Also Blizzard: lol keys are fucked sry

[lusty grotto]

if youre in a hurry you can just do m0

[strong forum]

you can do m0s for that oto

[pale hill]

If we are trying to get dps trinkets, we should open vault as fury right?

[toxic pewter]

M0 basically soloable right

[chilly brook]

arms

[crude notch]

fury can get you forgestorm

[chilly brook]

unless you still need a 1h

[pale hill]

forgestorm is good though, right?

[chilly brook]

but if that's the case just open in prot

at least imo

[harsh haven]

anyone know?

[quartz mist]

cragshaper is goated

[pale hill]

I have a Hero weapon so I think I'm okay.

[quartz mist]

to me at least

[chilly brook]

since fury if it rolls a weapon you're like 50/50 on if it's a 1h or 2h

[sick sentinel]

What if you don't think you will get forge storm soon

then would you craft weapon

[toxic pewter]

you guys think I messed up taking 444 sark cloak over 447 normal cloak

[sick sentinel]

i could do my weapon to 437

[cinder nova]

We know for sure Call to Chaos is dog and probably not getting buffed for us, yeah?

[daring marlin]

no bro

NOOOOOOOOOOOO

[toxic pewter]

Lol

think just sucks ass

i think

[daring marlin]

The stars could align bro

[toxic pewter]

lost 40k health

LOL

for some shitty ass proc

[daring marlin]

yeah

I lost 30k on my ret

just don't die 4head

[toxic pewter]

for tank it just dumb move i think

maybe

[gloomy hazel]

What do I do to generate enough rage to have shield block up at the start of a pack if I don't have avatar up when charging in?

I know I can use shield charge as one way, but what else?

[tropic star]

if 2peice tier, start with good old last stand/bolster

[lusty grotto]

charge

[cinder nova]

You could charge > shockwave > charge

[toxic pewter]

shockwave, demo shout

[lusty grotto]

realistically charge + 1 devastator hit is usually enough but just fucking go in with last stand

i hope you have bolster

[modern brook]

defensive trinkets generally fall into the same narrow catagory of use. Generally speaking your spellbook and rotation makes you tanky enough for most progression content; so outside of very specific, high end M+ / raid cheeses, defensive trinkets are either a bandaid for poor play, or sit unused/uneeded

[urban portal]

matters less for tank

[daring marlin]

for sure

[urban portal]

lets pretend the cloak gives 30k hp

[daring marlin]

just like avoidance being higher value on dps

[urban portal]

30k hp is like 5% of a DPS hp

[toxic pewter]

I play arms too so I guess Ill still use it

[urban portal]

but its like 2% of a tank hp

[toxic pewter]

the proc also seems to be worse for tank, I mean it procs less I think?

not sure

[urban portal]

dont think it should proc less

but it doesnt proc much in gen

[toxic pewter]

they should buff it 😄

[daring marlin]

I agree

[toxic pewter]

should get like 30% uptime

[daring marlin]

no

20% would be fine

[toxic pewter]

Im fine with 20

Just make it a bit better

[untold adder]

holy fuck, forgestorm dropped after 18 runs!!!

[toxic pewter]

GRATS

[untold adder]

But to a shaman that needed it for offspec as enh

[toxic pewter]

LOL

awkward

[untold adder]

End my misery

[sick sentinel]

Weird how it changed the key

1 is the starting point earlier, 0 affixes

2 is tyranical, 3 is whats on the screen

[daring marlin]

I'm beating people in this raid and they're getting PI

hilarious

what a bunch of IDIOTS

[sick sentinel]

like, cuz it listed that it already had the tyranical, ,changing into tyr/volc and on bottom row its showing nothing changes into tyranical

[cinder storm]

https://tenor.com/view/omni-man-invincible-look-what-they-need-to-mimic-a-fraction-of-our-power-gif-25672186

[acoustic oasis]

When you select fury for vault, can 1hers and 2hers drop? Or just 1hers?

[daring marlin]

both

[acoustic oasis]

Does the trinket from VP drop from fury?

Or just prot

[toxic pewter]

just prot

[sick sentinel]

yeah, its a defensive trinket technically speaking

[acoustic oasis]

Do....do i go fury incase i can get ass candy/memestorm?

[sick sentinel]

because its based on when YOU take dmg

[acoustic oasis]

Or just prot for the trinket/forgestorm

I have a 447 non forgestorm, and a 441 trinket.

No ass candy

😦

[toxic pewter]

what shield do you have

[acoustic oasis]

447 crafted

[toxic pewter]

ok

[sick sentinel]

Tank trinkets = anything that mentions a bunch of armor, a giant heal, an absorb, reducing dmg, or takes effect when you take dmg

[cinder storm]

@blazing condor this lad name/photo always makes my day

[toxic pewter]

that VP trinket is good, but the raid trinkets for dps are also good .. so I would personally do fury

[lusty grotto]

the only trinket that needs a dps spec is anvil

the rest drop for prot

[toxic pewter]

yah I like anvil more than vp trinket personally

[sick sentinel]

all that stuff, will show up, if u set loot to prot, so you'd get sporepods in underrot say

[urban portal]

im fairly sure 3rd affix doesnt appear until 12-13

[lusty grotto]

that includes beacon, grapnel, etc

[acoustic oasis]

Woah

[sick sentinel]

14 i wanna say?

[acoustic oasis]

Fury it fucking is

[crude notch]

The purple storm is coming...

[acoustic oasis]

Thanks mean joe(s)

[lusty grotto]

realistically you want fury for grapnel and mark of darg

[sick sentinel]

what YOU DIDNT see,

was the brown boys is bulkin up

[acoustic oasis]

I have 437 beacon/441 vp for m+, and 437 beacon 437/chromatic for raid

[daring marlin]

DIDN'T DROP AGAIN AHHHHHHHHHHHH

[sick sentinel]

good lord no, fucking dh tanks and prevoker heals keys

fml, i can see it coming now, season 3

its gunna be a scary time whenever that happens

[cinder storm]

Asmongold deleted pwar then went to his 2nd channel

[waxen vale]

does last stand go off of total health or when u press it?

same for rally?

[sick sentinel]

his lvl 5 one?

bro, that dude aint never givin up warrior for nothin

[urban portal]

both are max health

[cinder storm]

No, when they ended up nerfing us after he cried about it, he was more so the cherry on the pie

[sick sentinel]

???? what really

lmaoooo

[waxen vale]

doesnt asmon just fury

[sick sentinel]

aintnoway.exe

[waxen vale]

shows how long its been since i watched that MFs stream

[cinder storm]

people were crying over pwar on the forums but nothing happened, asmon went to tank and nerfs were ready for the next week https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3QImwiDg7g

[sick sentinel]

No, im searching the vod, hes jus bitching about twitch or summthin

5 months ago........... in terms of asmongold.... i speak in terms of.,....... 5 minutes ago.... lolol

[cinder storm]

Never forgive, never forget

[sick sentinel]

you know whats better than asmongold stream

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drbfnUwPVTs

yogi fails at keystones

[blazing condor]

[sick sentinel]

we wiped before first boss due to fear and accidently ass pulling

[untold adder]

focus + kick is big

[sick sentinel]

This video doesn't have an annoying ass streamer dude in the background!

[crude notch]

don't worry, prevoker isn't that popular

[sick sentinel]

incase that turned you off the last video i posted

don't count on me putting alot of editing into these videos.....

the gross parts of this key are mostly at the very start and at the very end

[daring marlin]

damn bro these guys are still big mad about me taking rashok

kek

[quartz mist]

what sim options we put in for burst aoe again on raidbots

[lusty grotto]

5 patchwerks, 1 min or 1.5 min, no lust

[toxic pewter]

keys are fixed

[real thunder]

Sorry if this has been answered, for M+ are we taking the buffed thunderlord talent? going to miss the sync with Shield Charge and other abilities.

[strong forum]

unlikely

but in the event of you wanting to play it, you just switch off of show of force for it

[real thunder]

good, i didn't like it very much

[sick sentinel]

he says its 25 seconds cd on demo with the new TL

[urban portal]

ive been experimenting with immovable object lately

[sick sentinel]

i dunno what it was with the old TL

[urban portal]

because globals during LS windows are way too tight

for me to spam TC

[uneven mason]

Original TL was 100% uptime

Oh you mean DF tl

[urban portal]

original TL was also 1.5/4.5

[quiet minnow]

yeah i agree with this-- its kinda annoying

too many buttons competing to be pressed on pwar

esp on pull

[urban portal]

getting a 2nd mini avatar is nice too

im not sure if its good

[quiet minnow]

i think thunderlord + immovable object could be a nice middle ground there

free up some room for more ss but get some of the same tc reduction so you have globals for it that would otherwise have to go to revenge

and more tankiness to boot

[daring marlin]

sounds like you wanna be a warrior with a budget sentinel

[quiet minnow]

not necessarily lol

just a thought

[uneven mason]

There was no cap on the TGV

[strong forum]

more ss?

SS is ultra prio

[quiet minnow]

yeah i word poorly

[strong forum]

even with unstoppable force

[quiet minnow]

more that

right now during ava and ls im not able to hit tc for shit anyways

[strong forum]

ye

[quiet minnow]

so its not really getting as much benefit as id like

like what hekili man stated

[strong forum]

IO isnt much of a dps loss

assuming you send SW for dmg

[urban portal]

the cap existed since shadowlands

so thats what im referring to

[strong forum]

all it does is shift dmg a tiny bit from TC to revenge

[quiet minnow]

could be nice for forti weeks anyways

[strong forum]

generally also plays more nicely rotationally imo

[quiet minnow]

get a lot more wall uptime

[urban portal]

so I'll be playing IO from now on

[strong forum]

well its not like IO is needed

[urban portal]

with 4 set

got it

[quiet minnow]

no of course not

[strong forum]

but its funny how people just forget that talent exists

[urban portal]

it just feels like im never pressing TC during LS+avatar

[strong forum]

when they say "am squish"

but kinda ignore the mega talent that is IO

for bosses like rashok

you can SW every single tank buster

and not break even half of a sweat

[real thunder]

When talented into Unstoppable Force and when you are in Avatar with Last Stand up as well, are we just alternating Thunderclap and revenge like normal or does the new tier want us to prioritize SS? This question is specifically for AoE pulls.

[frozen rose]

Anyone have advice on how to use elementium pocket anvil best? Just got. Little unclear on it

[real thunder]

looked at the wowhead guide and it didn't mention a re-prioritize so im guessing just alternate between thunderclap and revenge

[urban portal]

on cd

[ruby musk]

You press it in combat. Then never leave combat. Still in combat? Good. Keep pressing it.

[untold adder]

very smart

[urban portal]

still prio SS to make the most rage

[frozen rose]

Lol okay. Thanks @urban portal . Thought there was more details regarding it . Use on cd. Got it

[pale hill]

So...apparently the Smoldering Howler Horn is really good according to sim

these 411 trinkets are outpacing heroic level stuff D:

[strong forum]

who in the what now

[trim bloom]

Wafting enchant is what is simming highest for me, should I assume I’m doing something wrong?

[strong forum]

nah thats entirely possible

im also rocking wafting for m+

[strong forum]

idk from what im looking at, its super medicore

[trim bloom]

Sweet, like that haste!

I trust the sims, I just don’t trust the simmer 😁

[uneven mason]

The drogbar rocks 411 outdoes a lot of shit

[pale hill]

When I simmed them it doesn't even pop up. :😵

[sick sentinel]

so yeah, you guys were saying i should stream....... (listening to asmon bitch about some huge twitch revenue nerfs atm) omegalul

i dunno, never really thought of my self like that, and well, this aint encouraging

[quiet minnow]

has asmon ever not been bitching? i mean honestly

guys got millions of dollar from playing vids in an attic and all he does is complain

[sick sentinel]

whenever he get traded the sword or gold

[strong forum]

rn hes talking real, hes not bitching about his own situation

hes bitching for the grand scheme of things of twitch pulling a dumb fucking move

and bringing more attention to it

[sick sentinel]

cuz, ya, this fucks over, nome, and brew at the very least that i know of in this channel alone

[strong forum]

well it doesnt fuck over me

cuz i dont make money on twitch

[modern brook]

thats not true

[strong forum]

im a nobody

[modern brook]

you make 5 dollars/however often i remember to renew my prime off me

[strong forum]

okaaaaaaaay

[modern brook]

speaking of are you streaming i need to renew my prime

[strong forum]

a bit

[modern brook]

i reprimed anyways

ill forget if i dont

[strong forum]

🙏

[modern brook]

now we can riot about twitch changes and how they're affecting our TC's livelyhood 😦

[sick sentinel]

im not rich enough to be constantly ordering shit on amazon to make having twitch prime worth it to me, so, get fucked, no free sub

[cinder storm]

my adblock says hi

[strong forum]

[sick sentinel]

prime is good if you want to place a bunch of orders for like, 1 pencil, at at time, type of small order

you get free shipping after XX dolars

[strong forum]

i should not tell you then, that i order takeout pretty much every single day then huh

[modern brook]

dont let ppl shame u for that

I do the same

[cinder storm]

Remember when Prime meant no twitch ads, 2 day delivery

[modern brook]

I'm getting off it cause i have to start measuring my macros 😦

[strong forum]

have to?

[modern brook]

this is basically what i use prime for so yeah

You should see my pencil collection

[modern brook]

I'm american fat

so "yeah"

[sick sentinel]

cuz like, if i order, a printer, its gunna be free shipping end of day

[ruby musk]

We open the vault as fury if we still need a 440+ forgestorm?

[atomic matrix]

Hey all, was wondering about the incoming buff, is it big enough that warrior will probaly see more play in keys?

[cinder storm]

no

[sick sentinel]

so, whats the point, cuz how many times you bought a printer in the last year. say

probably 0

[modern brook]

if you have a shield already yeah fury can still drop forgesword

[ruby musk]

Probably not.

[strong forum]

pwar will see more play once andy starts pushing keys

[ruby musk]

Yeah, I have a 447 shield.

[strong forum]

we were already top 3 tank this season

and now we're very much competing for #2

[cinder storm]

[atomic matrix]

Oh i didn't think he still played his pwar :p

[strong forum]

hes getting it ready to push

[cinder storm]

I think Naowh will keep this season between DH and Ppal, his playerbase would have more weight in that than andy's

thats a take dont @ me

[strong forum]

naowh also just doesnt like pwar

[warm plinth]

Even top players follow shit that Andy does though

[strong forum]

this season is gonna be interesting

[warm plinth]

Yeah pwar has to be utterly broken for Naowh to play it

[strong forum]

echo vs echo competing for r1

[modern brook]

my moneys on echo

[tardy urchin]

naowh likes classes that heal himself

[warm plinth]

Lol

[signal perch]

Got the sark trinket in my vault, should I go for it?

[acoustic oasis]

Yes

Its amazing

[strong forum]

bis

[signal perch]

Thanks

[acoustic oasis]

It feels great, get blood straight to the erection

[cinder storm]

[acoustic oasis]

Yep, beacon fixes ED.

[loud cave]

Would ya'll say Prot feels more or less durable than Brewmaster?

[cinder storm]

More

[modern brook]

more because my brew master is level 50

[tardy urchin]

so the prot buffs is very good aye? we meta again boyz? Kappa

[proper roost]

Buffs are buffs

they are always good

[modern brook]

tehcnically speaking these buffs are compensatory

[strong forum]

back to how it was 4weeks ago

[drifting lance]

mr nom

how come we swap off heavy repercussions now for into the fray

[strong forum]

cuz you play bolster

[drifting lance]

ah yeah

[strong forum]

and bolster + HR is 250% block uptime

[drifting lance]

makes alot of sense

yea

[strong forum]

bit overkill

[drifting lance]

slight

[pallid quiver]

when's double blocking

[proper roost]

You just have to be somewhat judicious with block usage and not just spam it at the end of packs currently but it's still pretty much completely braindead

[drifting lance]

how big of a damage loss is dropping show of force for thunderlord tomorrow?

if one at all

considering booming voice

[strong forum]

2%?

ish

maybe less

[warm plinth]

you're 250% block uptime

[drifting lance]

won't demo shout uptime be super high

[warm plinth]

gottem

[strong forum]

wont be super high no

[drifting lance]

seems like it'd be VB levels of high

50-60

[strong forum]

best case is like 40% reduction on demo

[drifting lance]

just eyeing it

[strong forum]

so youd have like maybe 30% uptime?

in best case

[drifting lance]

only off by a magnitude of 2

[vocal nimbus]

Simc with new buffs when :anger

[strong forum]

few hours

if not already up

[nocturne zodiac]

We still rocking onyx annulet in raid despite having 441 rings? And for m+ I should just use the 441 rings (both crit haste). Just a question going from the pins.

[drifting lance]

picking up pwarr because arty wants me to

also looks fun as hell ngl

[strong forum]

dirty fotmers

smh

[cinder storm]

pwar is always fun, even when it's not

[drifting lance]

didn't particularly enjoy it last season

[strong forum]

its more fun this season than last

[drifting lance]

was kinda eh

[strong forum]

4pc gives it an actual brain to sometimes use

s1 was jsut full autopilot

[drifting lance]

what's the idea of prot now

what buttons are good and when

[modern brook]

without maintaining SB to concider there really is just nothing to do 😦

[drifting lance]

aside from the super obvious stuff

[strong forum]

its still the same bull

plays exactly the same

[drifting lance]

u just press LS i guess

[strong forum]

except that you get to when 4pc is up

[warm plinth]

war's first vault, eternal sentry ring feelsgoodman

[drifting lance]

yeah made my 4p weakaura glow

looks mega sick

[modern brook]

true and real, edited for clarity

[drifting lance]

just got my 4p last night

[strong forum]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/tcyTVAanPh1ZKgfC#fight=last&type=damage-done&source=1&pull=1

4pc go brr

[modern brook]

thouht that was your overall for a second 😦

[drifting lance]

that's some good dam

[strong forum]

not yet

[drifting lance]

wish death strike hit as hard as SS

[strong forum]

but 140k should be possible in FH/BH

[modern brook]

FH first pull makes the dungeon imo

rest of it is mid af

[strong forum]

nah

[modern brook]

and is carried by nostalgia

[strong forum]

you clearly dont pull big enough then

its like double/triple pull all the time

@knotty venture

[drifting lance]

considering your gear and that being a tyr key

that overall is pretty nice

we love arma

[strong forum]

that run was cursed

look at 2nd boss

:)))

or first

or last

or 3rd

every single boss someone was dead

[drifting lance]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/K3Hrch1CNqvJTgQ7#fight=3&type=damage-done&source=3&pull=1

aside from me running boon

we do similar dam on the first pack

arma does alot of things

[strong forum]

arma is wizard

[drifting lance]

asa maintains alot of the blood apl

combination of asa/arma

[knotty venture]

Yeah, Weekly, Nightly, and Latest all have the updates from today, so sim away

[drifting lance]

i chip in whenever i can but they do most of it

[toxic pewter]

Tried thunderlord in a couple

actually just doesnt feel as good and did less dam

so im back to show of force

[knotty venture]

np! and yes, I've maintained unholy, blood, and frost for the last couple years. Taez and Khazak has now taken over frost and unholy, freeing a lot of my time for other things 🙂 I've pitched in for prot warrior a bit in the past, but fully took it over for dragonflight. Will be working on dps specs this tier as well

[drifting lance]

haven't played a prot key in months :monkas

[knotty venture]

Fenza for dk dps as well 🙂

[proper roost]

there's a lot of bleeds this season that impede on my enjoyment of pwar tbh

having to kite basilisks on literally only pwar vs any other tank is kinda cringe

[drifting lance]

basilisks aren't fun for any tank

fwiw

[knotty venture]

yeah, all the buffs should be live for dk and war

I checked the various auras this morning, everything basically got auto picked up

few corner cases where we had some great people verify via logs as well

[vivid orchid]

today is a good day

[warm plinth]

yuge

[strong forum]

noice

[lusty grotto]

congrats

[strong forum]

shadowflame on shield got fixed by arma

a few days ago

[knotty venture]

this looks to be pre-shadowflame patch fix

[strong forum]

^

[knotty venture]

I'm betting you have it on shield

lol

[strong forum]

its fixed

[knotty venture]

it's fixed now at least

I didn't even know it was a thing prior to that haha

[strong forum]

net gain was ~3.5k for you with todays buffs

should be in that ballpark

8% of ~60k

alot of which comes from sources that arent your class

checks out if you ask me

[knotty venture]

yeah, remove anshuul, shadowflame, annulet etc

always the sad thing when the tank aura buffs come through, they look huge, but in terms of actual numbers, it's not usually as much as you would think just purely by feel

[strong forum]

also for transparency, i just knew how much 2x shadowflame + shield bug increased the dmg by

and removed that

then looked at how much you simmed in reality after fix

[toxic pewter]

anyone know how many times sark cloak procs in sims

[strong forum]

silent star?

[toxic pewter]

yes

[strong forum]

once every 2 minutes

~

[toxic pewter]

is that comparable to a m+ proc rate would you say

[strong forum]

no

[warm plinth]

I was told the sark cloak has really bad proc behavior

in M+

[strong forum]

in m+ its once every 5-10minutes as tank

[warm plinth]

It's super fucking terrible

[toxic pewter]

damn it lol

i fuk'd up bad today lol

[strong forum]

cuz cloak requires YOUR GROUP to take dmg

for you to get the proc

and uh

gl

[toxic pewter]

cloak suk ass

[strong forum]

yes for tanks absolutely in m+

in raid its usable

but not in m+

[balmy canyon]

Did they kill bursting? If not cloak could be great the weeks it shows up

[toxic pewter]

i took it over a 447 cloak today meh wont matter in big picture

[strong forum]

isnt bursting removed?

[warm plinth]

bursting is not removed

[strong forum]

hm

anyway

[warm plinth]

Grievous got removed

[strong forum]

cloak big bad in keys

[toxic pewter]

feelsbadman

[warm plinth]

and grievous would probably have been the better candidate for proccing the cloak

since you take damage in combat

[strong forum]

if it can even proc from environmental dmg

thats the next question

[warm plinth]

yeah

[left basalt]

Have 441 cloak/neck already, I would assume hero trinket in this case?

[drifting lance]

how depressing is 13% haste

on a scale of 1-10

[jagged pier]

As long as thats your highest ilvl gear it dont matter

[drifting lance]

i assume LS is just sent p much on cd

[daring marlin]

anvil huge

[sick sentinel]

Is ilvl always king??

[warm plinth]

with tier, yes

[jagged pier]

Strength is always king so yes

[sick sentinel]

Well jewelry doesnt have str, so not on those?

[jagged pier]

At a point ilvl on ring beats out better stats because more stats > less better stats

But thats just a sim away

So not hard to find out

[warm plinth]

Our secondaries all rank very close together; don't overestimate the effects of any singular stat

[sick sentinel]

What do you sim for prot?

Same as dps?

[warm plinth]

Yes you're simming for DPS. Just don't use dungeon slice

patchwerk/multi-target patchwerk

[sick sentinel]

Cool

Can i see one of your guys sim for reference

[warm plinth]

Reference of what? Like you want to see the sim options?

[frozen rose]

single target, sim has ominous chormatic essence giving me +3k dps over zaqali chaos grap. This sound right??? Very surprised

[sick sentinel]

No no just what i should be aiming for at a specific ilvl

I think i heavily underestimate mastery

[warm plinth]

Oh, well my war is only like 410 or 412 so

If you think you should avoid it, then yes, you do. But it's not insanely strong or anything. Like I said, all our secondaries are close together in power.

[warm plinth]

are you simming with all the dragonflights in the group?

[lusty grotto]

make sure you sim every option here

and allies etc

[frozen rose]

@warm plinth ya

[warm plinth]

That being said, it sounds like you're simming AoE if it's a 3k difference, which sounds right to me since the grapnel is pretty meh in aoe

and having all the dragonflights is pretty big ofc; it's what made icon strong, having all the other roles with it

[frozen rose]

sim with the obsidian option? +130 secondary stats

[warm plinth]

No I mean, what does yours say in this right-hand box