cough cough codex
#protection
chilly brook
waxen frigate
I’m not even going to entertain codex discussion again lmao pls dont bring that evil upon this place
cinder storm
We musn't forget history lest we repeat it again
waxen frigate
It doesn’t make them right but more likely than not there is at least a perceived reason and it’s interesting to think about why something may be used
untold adder
wtf is codex?
chilly brook
well of course there's a perceived reason
fringe gust
I have no idea who it is really, just trying to figure something out.
chilly brook
that reason being "it's giga survival"
and it also being "I know better than the discord"
waxen frigate
wtf is codex?
chilly brook
There's ego on both sides
I've seen plenty of streamers with high performance in terms of io shit on class discords
ruby musk
I like seeing people deviate on talents but they need to make sense in the numbers IMHO
waxen frigate
There's ego on both sides
Exactly what I’m saying
lusty grotto
usually the explanation is, "well the rank 1 goes for those"
waxen frigate
I like seeing people deviate on talents but they need to make sense in the numbe...
Numbers aren’t everything though particularly in high M+. Something can sim optimally but a sim can’t replicate the reality of a bleeding edge key
lusty grotto
but they always miss the context
chilly brook
I just put it this way, they're way better than I am at running the dungeons. But that doesn't mean their opinions are right on everything, just like I'm not right on everything.
ruby musk
I agree. The SIMs can miss too.
waxen frigate
but they always miss the context
The context is key
I see it so much as someone who is active in both peak and equinox’s discord for brew stuff
People just are so tribal
lusty grotto
like for example
chilly brook
Numbers aren’t everything though particularly in high M+. Something can sim opti...
It's not really a question of sims, numbers are numbers and some things just don't work out numerically....like codex kek
lusty grotto
naowh has a hot take about disrupting shout
ruby musk
But I like seeing people deep dive on it. Like the dude in the Arms channel that found running bastion spear v roar talents was only a 1% dps loss.
lusty grotto
thats a great recent example
waxen frigate
It's not really a question of sims, numbers are numbers and some things just don...
Depends on the situation
lusty grotto
disrupting was great in a dungeon like AV for example
waxen frigate
Codex in particular was a weird one
lusty grotto
so context was important there
chilly brook
there is a world where codex works
cinder storm
Many high io tanks do get carried by their team, but they also have time to play, commitment, a good network, a good understanding of the dungeons, they don't really need to understand the ins and outs
chilly brook
it's just not until giga high keys on specific specs
waxen frigate
Many high io tanks do get carried by their team, but they also have time to play...
Define carried
ruby musk
I'm just saying if someone has a novel build, I'll at least take a peak and try to make sense of why and see what evidence there is for it. Sometimes it might be good, most times it's suboptimal or the reasoning is stupid.
lusty grotto
another example, ye olde versa vs crit debate. There IS a point in key levels that you absolutely need to start swapping, its just not anywhere near low 20s
chilly brook
If we're being honest, being a tank in M+ in a coordinated group you have so much more on your mind besides playing your class well
you're usually the shot caller
it's like raid leading
you're taking a personal hit
waxen frigate
Yep
median tulip
Good DPS do make tanking significantly easier, but I question the definition of that as "carrying"; we're just all way too used to bad DPS
cinder storm
Define carried
They just do the most efficient pulls and do their rotations as needed, their team will do the shot calling and the rest, the tank just exists there
ruby musk
another example, ye olde versa vs crit debate. There IS a point in key levels th...
Need to start swapping to or away from crit?
lusty grotto
to versa
ruby musk
Yeah
waxen frigate
They just do the most efficient pulls and do their rotations as needed, their te...
I don’t think that’s the reality for most high io tank streamers lol
lusty grotto
so when people see a streamer load up on versa, they just assume versa is king
chilly brook
And if we're also being honest, tanks are the role that can take the personal hit to performance
waxen frigate
Most of them call the shots and lead the group
lusty grotto
but they dont understand the key levels these guys are running demand the versa pump
proper roost
good dps/healers are very noticeable, just have to be watching others' performance; esp as pwar you can't get every kick, you can't get offensive dispels, you have no power over your party's hp (other than rally lul)
chilly brook
good dps/healers are very noticeable, just have to be watching others' performan...
I'm a bad healer 😦
I'm trying to git gud
waxen frigate
so when people see a streamer load up on versa, they just assume versa is king
That’s the current situation with brewmaster. “Equinox runs double defensive trinks and high tolerance over bonedust”
Yea because he’s taking more dmg in a pull than you’re taking over an entire key
lusty grotto
yup
ruby musk
Lol
chilly brook
the M+ situation this season is literally making me learn Prevoker
lusty grotto
good dps/healers are very noticeable, just have to be watching others' performan...
good healers are def noticeable in DF
outright
chilly brook
Healers just don't exist
lusty grotto
i dont agree with that statement at all
cinder storm
you wont notice a good healer, ever
chilly brook
you wont notice a good healer, ever
I disagree lmao
proper roost
i mean ig it'd be stupid to say like "you notice good dps because they don't die" but that is a pretty good factor
waxen frigate
I just hate when people act like they’re so good at the game that they could easily be in the shoes of a top io player and do fine
lusty grotto
first week VPs weed out the good from the bad really quickly
median tulip
You sure as hell notice a bad healer
lusty grotto
same with RLPs
waxen frigate
you wont notice a good healer, ever
Lol wha
cinder storm
You sure as hell notice a bad healer
chilly brook
I notice when I don't need to call for personals and when a healer is also pumping damage
untold adder
for sure you notice a good healer what
chilly brook
I've always noticed good healers
sick sentinel
You sure as hell notice a bad healer
i notice more when i have bad dps because NOTHING FUCKING DIES
uneven mason
you wont notice a good healer, ever
Sure you will, they're above you on the damage meters
proper roost
Would be kind of wild to say a good healer wouldn't be noticed, since rsham/prevoker/rdruid all offer a lot of universally applicable CC as well
ruby musk
I've seen healers vary from 30k to 80k. I can absolutely tell you which run were getting clapped on lol
cinder storm
its a dps take
chilly brook
I actively ran with a resto shaman in the first two seasons of BFA because he was good as fuck
sick sentinel
healer is moot point if they are just healing forever and the monster never dies lol
chilly brook
a RESTO SHAMAN
cinder storm
when a healer does good they dont say anything, when something goes bad they blame the healer
chilly brook
A cooked class
uneven mason
when a healer does good they dont say anything, when something goes bad they bla...
Does well
lusty grotto
i ran with a resto shaman s1 this expac too
ruby musk
I like finding the huge io ilvl off meta healers because, in my experience, they're going to pump hard
lusty grotto
and hes a god healer
uneven mason
i ran with a resto shaman s1 this expac too
I mean resto was pretty solid
lusty grotto
of course he ascended with the changes
waxen frigate
Best healer I’ve ever played with was a resto sham in s4 sl
lusty grotto
to meta level etc
waxen frigate
Never felt safer and more enabled in keys than I did with her
And we were both off meta
median tulip
My main healer buddy is my guild's Resto shaman (& also my RL)
ruby musk
A while back our guild ran into a monk healer that was pumping 150k heals on Raz. It was nuts.
ruby musk
Obviously.
median tulip
Raid is very scripted in all departments
waxen frigate
I honestly don’t think you notice a good healer in raid very easily
Maybe if they’re carrying a pug but if it’s a decently organized guild it’s hard to tell
proper roost
healing in keys is much different in terms of agency
waxen frigate
Yep. Raid healing is timings and consistency
Key healing is triage and improvisation
proper roost
can only speak for rsham, but the amount of agency you have over keys as a rsham is insane and outside of pull cadence (which is EXTREMELY major obviously) it's higher than a tank imo
ruby musk
I feel like healing in m+ is like babysitting
untold adder
what should i spend my 3. shard on? I want to replace Lariat as get something with patch. Also; is that fucking seal of diurna BIS with frostfire belt?
median tulip
The ideal in mythic+ is for the healer not to have to heal at all
lusty grotto
what should i spend my 3. shard on? I want to replace Lariat as get something wi...
what content do you do
ruby musk
Green "DPS"
proper roost
i'd think it'd be less for a rdruid and about the same for prevoker, but can't say for sure
untold adder
hc, mythic raid and m+ but not over +20 because cba
lusty grotto
diurna is bis for raid and st
waxen frigate
The ideal in mythic+ is for the healer not to have to heal at all
Nowadays I don’t really agree with this. In shadowlands yes but not in DF
lusty grotto
but not for keys
waxen frigate
Healer dmg vs tank dmg is not comparable for most specs
proper roost
yeah it's not true at all in DF because there's way more unavoidable damage lol
chilly brook
I mean ideally
the less healing they have to do the better
because more damage
it's pretty universal
proper roost
you aren't getting through a high HOI without your healer pumping an insane amount of hps the entire key
waxen frigate
And I’d much rather have a healer be forced to heal more than a tank or the Dps have to spend globals or gear on defense
cinder storm
thats a take
waxen frigate
Because the net group Dps will not favor the healer in those cases currently
chilly brook
That being said, you're for sure going to have to heal
lusty grotto
hc, mythic raid and m+ but not over +20 because cba
you can make boots, UFB, slap a shadowflame embelish on either shield or boots, thats it, then craft whatever to up ilvl, and read my diurna comment
median tulip
DPS have more in-rotation healing than they did in SL though
untold adder
aight. Gear wise its mainly to progress mythic raid, so guess i stick with it. Ill try to farm a neck so i can replace lariat and craft boots with patch
uneven mason
A tank being forced to use defense
proper roost
i mean high keys DF seasons are just balanced around dps having to defensive/selfheal on top of the healer spamming them, it's not really one or the other tbh
median tulip
But as I said, It's the ideal, not what anyone can attain easily and consistently
proper roost
like you aren't killing first boss of bracken on high tyr at all if the dps don't use defensives
lusty grotto
aight. Gear wise its mainly to progress mythic raid, so guess i stick with it. I...
i mean just craft what's low if you have 1x shadowflame and unstable done
since you can just slap the shadowflame on the shield
chilly brook
Hmmmm
uneven mason
i mean high keys DF seasons are just balanced around dps having to defensive/sel...
Was going to say a good DPS is the one that takes their defense seriously
chilly brook
Idk what tank to start gearing
lusty grotto
unless if you have the food embelish that never drops for my alts on your shield
proper roost
the amt of unavoidable damage this season is very, very high
waxen frigate
I should clarify that I didn’t mean Dps and tanks shouldn’t press defensives
uneven mason
Idk what tank to start gearing
waxen frigate
They shouldn’t have to go out of their way to equip extra defense in order to let their healer do more dmg
proper roost
just looking at my friend's 24 tyr hoi key, he did 178k hps on the ice boss
kinda hilarious
waxen frigate
They should obviously use their full defensive kit
uneven mason
They shouldn’t have to go out of their way to equip extra defense in order to le...
Oh that's without a doubt
daring marlin
the amt of unavoidable damage this season is very, very high
avoidance stonks 📈
ocean yoke
Now that's a name I haven't heard in a hot minute. I remember when he was playing in the lcs
chilly brook
<:warriorbrain:1083190485637660734>
I'm just kinda gladge dh is doing well
proper roost
just roll a bear, bear stonks
waxen frigate
I'm just kinda gladge dh is doing well
Just sucks that the spec is entirely propped up by a tier set
uneven mason
I'm having a blast with bear
chilly brook
I did genuinely love playing Vengeance in S3 of BFA
uneven mason
although i noticed pwar enjoyers hate bear
Wat
waxen frigate
Because once tier goes away veng could very easily be back to dumpster
chilly brook
although i noticed pwar enjoyers hate bear
I just find it boring
daring marlin
I thought prot warrior enjoyers hated prot pally the most
lusty grotto
its not hate, its just fun
proper roost
idk man i feel like everyone who is a pwar enjoyer finds bear very boring
chilly brook
Bear is like....warrior but with less buttons and less feedback loop
proper roost
bear has traditionally, in the past, basically been boring version of pwar, so I kinda get it
pretty different now though
untold adder
i miss legion bear
cinder storm
bear cured my carpal tunnel 
uneven mason
There was a few sour grapes in the guardian discord early in the xpac who ranted about hating warriors
waxen frigate
I think most non-bear players find bear weird and/or boring
untold adder
trash trash trash trash trash
uneven mason
Bear is like....warrior but with less buttons and less feedback loop
Less buttons?
proper roost
ya like I said I think that's like a misconception about bear from like legion
chilly brook
Less buttons?
yeah if you remove buttons you'll never press like healing buttons because you're in bear form lol
chilly brook
ya like I said I think that's like a misconception about bear from like legion
idk I logged into my 60 bear earlier to help a friend level
uneven mason
They have, crap now I've gotta go count
proper roost
it used to definitely be very similar to prot warrior in terms of what the buttons did because the designer of guardian had no idea what they were doing
uneven mason
Probably not wrong in a general sense
proper roost
i mean, the buttons just do pretty different things now
uneven mason
And they suffer from a shittastic class tree
chilly brook
I also was a lowkey bear enjoyer in BFA mind you
I find it boring now but for some reason not then
waxen frigate
I’m interested to see the bear rework
chilly brook
probably because it was the peak of using stuff like resto affinity
waxen frigate
Might give it a try
lusty grotto
i havent tried bear this expansion, but i did find it boring before
in all of the previous expansions
lusty grotto
prot pally also was boring to me, but i havent tried it after the changes
cinder storm
ppal feels boring for me too, utility wise its nice to be able to help your team
lusty grotto
i just ret or holy on my pally tbh
cinder storm
Maybe....all tanks are boring? 
proper roost
i despise current prot pally; the rotation is just worse feeling in every way than mop ppal (which was basically the same rotation but grand crusader AS gave holy power)
lusty grotto
and fucking braindead as well
daring marlin
prot pally owns
chilly brook
i despise current prot pally; the rotation is just worse feeling in every way th...
prot pally is better than it has been in a long time rotationally imo
proper roost
AS, the iconic ppal spell, being a low prio filler is dumb imo
daring marlin
prot pally is better than it has been in a long time rotationally imo
based
proper roost
i mean, mop was a REALLY long time ago
so i agree fully
but also yeah lol that's my working basis
chilly brook
removal of seraphim was goated
chilly brook
also imho AS being more filler/used for utility is far better
proper roost
actually i think i'm thinking of wod ppal, because that's when AS Grand crusader holy power was baseline - and then they removed hopo for ppal in legion
lusty grotto
i was like ok i do this and never touch the fucking spec again fuck this shit
proper roost
also imho AS being more filler/used for utility is far better
I mean it is better in terms of a utility sense, being able to hold it for a backup kick owns
chilly brook
i was like ok i do this and never touch the fucking spec again fuck this shit
it's really fun rn
proper roost
i just don't like it subjectively because I like pressing the glowy captain america button that does big dam as my top prio (so gutting its dmg compared to judge and low prio is not my jam)
chilly brook
I mean it is better in terms of a utility sense, being able to hold it for a bac...
you already kinda did this though in SL or at least I did
it just feels way less worse now
proper roost
(i have not played ppal since legion and this season of DF)
lusty grotto
i bet it is griff, i just rather shut off my brain and dps (or heal)
well not heal this expansion
🙂
proper roost
iirc i specifically quit before bfa because they wanted to put shield of the righteous on gcd then
unless that never actually happened, idk
sick sentinel
never really played paladin on bfa
i do think ret paladin is pretty amazing right now though
most of them seem to do pretty strong
lusty grotto
hopefully mages and hpal get some decent love
proper roost
honestly I think healing is extremely rewarding and fun this expansion, it's much better than in SL since you actually have to heal during keys
lusty grotto
with the changes
cinder storm
I leveled as hpal and that was fun, I might try switching to hpal on keys
chilly brook
hopefully mages and hpal get some decent love
hpal is looking giga with their changes
proper roost
and (weirdge take) it's kinda fun to have a couple affixes that you can solo as healer since it actually skill gaps you from the shit healers that exist
chilly brook
like actually sick
lusty grotto
yeah ive seen good stuff
idk
i feel like theyve doubled down too hard on healers this expansion tbh
its resulting in less people playing them
proper roost
uh yeah i mean i'd def agree but that just means if you play a healer, and you're good at it
then people are all over your dick
i think there is definitely too much healer responsibility in keys though
lusty grotto
its not good for the game
proper roost
it's very jarring when you go from key to raid and you're suddenly like
10% of your brainpower
lusty grotto
avenging crusader with corruptions was so fucking fun
hopefully its similar to that
thats one of the high points in nimchipadin's wow journey
haste corruption, glimmer, avenging crusader
fucking amazing gameplay
daring marlin
couple IT corruptions on pally was pretty good
lusty grotto
so different to the old, stand there and fucking cast
daring marlin
since CDs were so powerful
mighty valley
i know so many people who cry and say wah wah why won't they let me be a holy paladin that stands around and casts holy light
deranged people
lusty grotto
its fine to make it optional though
daring marlin
I liked holy radiance
lusty grotto
i just cant go back
proper roost
melee healer is just kind of annoying for comp reasons occasionally (me, stuck with my friend playing MW for the start of s2)
mighty valley
can be like mistweavers where it's optional and bad
proper roost
in week 1 we semi-accidentally grabbed 2 more melee dps for NL and ended up doing a 4 melee comp which uh
lusty grotto
its not like... bfa MW but it holds its own
proper roost
as you can imagine, on tyr NL, did not go well.
chilly brook
i have a bud that plays MW, he does well
on my list of things to try this season
gimme fistweaving
proper roost
and then we never did NL with more than 1 other melee again
lusty grotto
yea
daring marlin
best healer all expac I've pugged with was a MW
lusty grotto
in week 1 we semi-accidentally grabbed 2 more melee dps for NL and ended up doin...
i did that mistake with hpal on SBG
lusty grotto
"oh"
chilly brook
Legion ruined the class
lusty grotto
SBG last boss lmao
chilly brook
chi was so good man
proper roost
MW actually has some interesting strengths that other healers struggle with a lot this season, they just have some really wacky weaknesses due to how faeline stomp and being balanced around raidhealing works
like, MW is insane at healing Asaad while other healers can struggle a bit since they don't really care about player positioning
chilly brook
MW actually has some interesting strengths that other healers struggle with a lo...
Can't be worse than needing everyone to be in my Dream Breath when they're off in Narnia
proper roost
in general any fight where the group is spread, MW has some really interesting strengths
would be cooler if the designer didn't only care about raidhealing for them or whatever or if they had slightly more/better self defensives
cinder storm
Nice
chilly brook
Honestly WW is doing way better than the impression I've been getting from people
craggy pilot
if im getting an error like this in WA, is there any way to see which specific WA it is regarding?
does anyone know?
chilly brook
way over my head
cinder storm
the goblin wa?
lusty grotto
not sure which but
if thats a function in the WA, then its very likely that its something like Tama's or whatever
i have no idea which WAs you have so you'd have to check
more specifically what's erroring out is a region class
or at least an icon of that specific region prototype
but that you can discern by just reading
proper roost
Honestly WW is doing way better than the impression I've been getting from peopl...
isn't the complaint more about their design
things like ToD having too much power budget and spec talents being bad and annoying
bad scaling etc
chilly brook
things like ToD having too much power budget and spec talents being bad and anno...
I think the ToD argument has largely died down, but I was talking more or less people saying WW single target was omega bad
which even if we filter to just damage to bosses, they're lower middle of the pack
waxen frigate
things like ToD having too much power budget and spec talents being bad and anno...
ToD cleave is turbo cringe
chilly brook
ToD cleave is turbo cringe
I kinda liked gaming it for more damage to bosses
but that's just me
I certainly recognize not everyone likes it
sick sentinel
genuinely don't know how anyone can enjoy these dungeons
how is it possible that 5 out of 8 are stage 4 cancer
daring marlin
lolwut
craggy pilot
is there a play against the Jagged Disc in Nelt Lair?
chilly brook
genuinely don't know how anyone can enjoy these dungeons
uhh wut?
jagged pier
yes ppl need to stand correctly so they jump into a wall
lusty grotto
yes, intervene
chilly brook
they don't seem all that bad
lusty grotto
and/or dont target the pelters so they dont jump
chilly brook
VP is pretty free unless you're a healer
lusty grotto
though thats impossible in a pug
sick sentinel
Neltharions lair gave me more cancer than playing league of legends for more than 10 years
split pendant
“I just think they’re neat”
sick sentinel
Crazy how shit these dngs are
chilly brook
Neltharus isn't terrible now, really like Uldaman, Freehold and UR are both free
sick sentinel
Worst shit dungeon to exist
chilly brook
3 bosses that can be reflected
brooooo
jagged pier
like all dungeons kinda free but uldr or VP with a bad healer imo
lusty grotto
yes, and it still works here
sick sentinel
It's not about the bosses
sick sentinel
The adds are cancer
sick sentinel
Jumping away impossible to cleave shit
chilly brook
yes, and it still works here
no no no the fact that it would yeet him across the room
jagged pier
i mean u can move out of avalanche
sick sentinel
Tell that the pugs ?
lusty grotto
they do not jump if nobody targets them
sick sentinel
It's not avalanche
jagged pier
if ppl postion correctly they dont leap away
sick sentinel
It's the disc thrower
jagged pier
t
proper roost
you can personally control the pelter jumps slightly by choosing where to tank them also
jagged pier
again
proper roost
they move for the first 4 seconds ish
jagged pier
if ppl stand correctly
chilly brook
@lusty grotto https://youtu.be/7Y2LDKjxRwg
proper roost
and always jump backwards
jagged pier
they dont jump far
proper roost
you can control this to make them jump into the wall
jagged pier
nither do i
proper roost
like personally as tank only
proper roost
I think generally the really bad pelter jump people have issues with is the breaker + 2 pelters in the room; you want to ensure both of them would disengage into a close wall, and not be facing you in opposite directions
Actually maybe a diagram would help more
chilly brook
I got yelled at when tanking last boss of UR for "not moving enough"
proper roost
i should just send quazii a picture of how the pelters jump and he can just make a bideo about it
chilly brook
and I'm sitting here like "bruh how you gonna do damage if I'm running all over the place, let him do his breath then move slightly and just cleave the orbs"
why run from orbs when you can just put down an earthquake >.>
lusty grotto
pelters jump depending on where the group is positioned at
they go opposite the group
always
but thats a non factor JUST DONT TARGET THEM
and they WILL NOT JUMP AT ALL
proper roost
its semi random, theyll disengage based on their current target but it is often still the tank (because they retarget tank when they stop casting briefly)
usually when people get opposite disengages its bcs the tank is facing the breaker into the wall but both pelters are on either side of the breaker
so facing opposite directions
chilly brook
just kill them before they jump 4head
craggy pilot
but thats a non factor JUST DONT TARGET THEM
wdym?
craggy pilot
like only do aoe dmg on them?
lusty grotto
cleave em
proper roost
Yes if you dont target them they dont jump
lusty grotto
yes
proper roost
its a weird interaction
lusty grotto
but if one person on your group targets them
they will jump
so you gotta put it in caps in group chat
if youre pugging i mean
chilly brook
just bring a WW and have them ToD cleave
sick sentinel
skill issue tbh
lusty grotto
if you have a group just yell at discord
sick sentinel
just gotta point him so he doesn't do that when you reflect it, reposition him
daring marlin
yogi what the fuck are you talking about
lusty grotto
lol
sick sentinel
<@131897531251556352> https://youtu.be/7Y2LDKjxRwg
\
lusty grotto
i was gonna say that but then i realized its yogi
sick sentinel
so, they've fixed that bug.... right?
lusty grotto
reflect doesnt knock him back, correct
but it still does giga damage
thats what thyme was showing there
sick sentinel
no, but what im saying
lusty grotto
you cant knock him back
proper roost
lol
lusty grotto
so you cant do it
sick sentinel
is if that was the rules in play, he gets KB if you reflect that
and you despwn him
sick sentinel
thats an on you skill issue problem
lusty grotto
molten crash used to knock him back
proper roost
bless your heart yogi
sick sentinel
thats what im gettin at
lusty grotto
...
sick sentinel
i could see it happening once or twice as a mistake
lusty grotto
i dont think youre getting it at all
IT NO LONGER HAPPENS CAUSE CRASH DOES NOT KNOCK BACK
sick sentinel
no, im speaking in hypotheticals
proper roost
lol
empty inlet
5 year video :pepeg:
sick sentinel
don't do the actions that cause the boss to do a softlock is my opinion
lusty grotto
thanks captain obvious?
sick sentinel
oh well, im not going to get mad and give you some kinda freak out reaction or whatever it is you are looking for lol
proper roost
sonic tangle
sick sentinel
i dunno, hes all at me and stuff lmao
sleek current
Does anyone know if subcreation publishes the parses it counts in it's tier lists?
So you can see what overalls they're finishing with?
jagged pier
its all
pulsar bear
Hey ya'll with 4pc is last stand used on cd?
jagged pier
Hey ya'll with 4pc is last stand used on cd?
ye
pulsar bear
For sure thanks
sleek current
Yeah, I'm aware of that. I'm just curious how we're so low for "DPS" when I'm regularly finishing keys with anywhere between 70k - 90k based on the key and in raid I'm 10k DPS higher than my co-tank. I suppose it's a non question really, when I feel I'm doing fine.
jagged pier
because we are a low dps tank
we are in fact the second lowest at 95 percentiles
just because you are beating your co tank literally unless hes a bdk
hes bad
he should be beating u
jagged pier
and 70-90k is low numbers in terms of tank damage
if your good
like high 80s pretty good for prot
but compared to other tanks its not high
chilly brook
don't do the actions that cause the boss to do a softlock is my opinion
I’d do it even if it still did it now just to troll my dps
sleek current
90k and above in BH, FH, Nelth for example, 60 - 70's in VP, around 70 - 80k for everything else.
jovial birch
@sleek current subcreation just takes % of players playing what class/spec in the keys it looks at and makes rankings. Doesn’t account for parses that’s why their ranking are bullshit and just a popularity contest. It’s assuming what is popular is what is best.
sleek current
<@228223093334605824> subcreation just takes % of players playing what class/sp...
Yeah, that's what I thought. The FAQ made it seem more interesting because it mentioned WarcraftLogs.
sick sentinel
why even play prot warrior at this point.
sick sentinel
thats literally the only reason
jovial birch
I get a lot of messages when playing prot warrior along the lines of “how you do so much damage as tank” so I’m assuming I’m doing more then the tanks they run with normally but prot warrior D tier 🤦♂️
sleek current
I'll always play Prot Warrior regardless of where it is.
sick sentinel
cuz i think paladins are too much on the other side of the river.
chilly brook
thats literally the only reason
That’s literally the only reason to play any class tbh
sick sentinel
with all their holy power
chilly brook
What’s the point of playing even if you enjoy pushing if you hate the experience while doing it
sick sentinel
literally the only reason
proper roost
insane how people succeed and are better than you even with offmeta classes because they're having fun with the game
jagged pier
sick sentinel
as I created my character and the paladin was wearing his zesty yellow armor and his cute little hammer
i knew warrior was the only way
chilly brook
Like I like paladin but not enough to play it seriously over warrior
jovial birch
I’m happy with this season I will definitely keep doing M+ beyond just getting portals because the dungeons have been enjoyable so far. Ask me again in 4 months but that’s what im saying now.
chilly brook
The only tank that dethroned warrior for me was DH in S3 of BFA
sleek current
I'll grab my portals and be on my way personally.
chilly brook
STILL WAITING FOR DOPE TRANSMOGS FOR PUSHING KEYS EVERY SEASON BLIZZARD
sleek current
Raid log until CE and maybe come to some alt raids for achievements.
jagged pier
STILL WAITING FOR DOPE TRANSMOGS FOR PUSHING KEYS EVERY SEASON BLIZZARD
it will be for like 2.7k
not higher
2.7k is like top 10%
jovial birch
That would be cool imo.
chilly brook
I mean they should do it
jagged pier
they should
sleek current
Only 14% of players got KSH last season I was pretty shocked by that number. It didn't feel hard to get and by end of season it was probably a breeze.
jagged pier
but my point is its not really for pushing keys at that point tho
sleek current
For Europe anyway
jagged pier
Only 14% of players got KSH last season I was pretty shocked by that number. It ...
dont be thats normal
ppl forget ppl are bad at this game
sick sentinel
DK is also rlly cool imo love lich king
sleek current
ppl forget ppl are bad at this game
That I do be forgetting
pallid quiver
On top of that, a lot of players just don't push all the way that they could
jovial birch
Dang KSH did not seem that hard last season. Going from that to getting all portals pugging was a struggle for me but 2500 came easy.
jagged pier
both pretty easy this season tbh
easier than last season just because the gear diff isnt as big
chilly brook
I don’t really care what they put it at but they should put it in the game
jagged pier
and alot of the dungeons are giga free
chilly brook
On top of that, a lot of players just don't push all the way that they could
I certainly don’t because it doesn’t matter
There’s no reason to
sick sentinel
2k was legit tutorial
jovial birch
This season is way easier I was 2500 second week
jagged pier
i mean u do get mythic appreance on all tier set for hero
chilly brook
Like the only reason to push is to get a nice silly number
pallid quiver
meanwhile, i haven't even logged into wow since S2 started
proper roost
i mean u do get mythic appreance on all tier set for hero
yeah but tbf the fact that just upgrading tier to 441 does this anyway totally undercuts this benefit
for this season
chilly brook
^
jagged pier
no like u get it on the lfr piece and stuff
pallid quiver
He means the effects on
jagged pier
like the effect
pallid quiver
yeah, the lower pieces
proper roost
oh ic
chilly brook
Oh effects kekw
proper roost
yeah
pallid quiver
So like the lightning on the shoulders from last tier
sleek current
Yeah, the special effect is what I push for then it's just about staying motivated for portals.
chilly brook
Speaking of tbh normal set for warrior looks best from a color perspective change my mind
sleek current
I like Heroic
chilly brook
but them doing a CM set every season
Even if it’s just for the last season
sleek current
I like red. 🤷
jagged pier
just for the last season is fine i guess
chilly brook
Or active since day 1 but hard to achieve early
Easier to achieve in last season
Idk
Something
waxen frigate
Maybe an expansion specific recolor if you get KSM/KSH every season on your account for an xpac
chilly brook
M+ NEEDS exclusive cosmetic rewards
chilly brook
Maybe an expansion specific recolor if you get KSM/KSH every season on your acco...
No recolor
uneven mason
4000iq idea, instead of a cm set, give us access to the mop and wod rewards, like legit just a token
waxen frigate
But add some way to catch up like guaranteed if you get title
chilly brook
Recolors are boring
jagged pier
Maybe an expansion specific recolor if you get KSM/KSH every season on your acco...
they would need to annoce that before the expansion tho
waxen frigate
they would need to annoce that before the expansion tho
Yes definitely
chilly brook
4000iq idea, instead of a cm set, give us access to the mop and wod rewards, lik...
I’d be chill with that
waxen frigate
Would be too late for DF but maybe for voidlands
waxen frigate
I’d rather get a proper recolor than the dogshit “glowing” effects
gusty stratus
what talent is the one for spreading rend on TC
waxen frigate
That’s literally the worst reward for any content in the game
chilly brook
Why settle for either when you can ask for unique armor sets?
waxen frigate
Also bring back raid portals for CE pls
chilly brook
Like we got UNIQUE ARMOR SETS FOR WORLD CONTENT THIS PATCH
waxen frigate
Why settle for either when you can ask for unique armor sets?
Realistic goals
jagged pier
Also bring back raid portals for CE pls
that will come in fated
chilly brook
Realistic goals
Bro we got unique armor sets for world content in a patch
waxen frigate
that will come in fated
Ok but also don’t bring back fated lmao
uneven mason
But recolors are just lazy and boring
"who needs an art team when they gave us this nifty bar" *slides hue and saturation around in Photoshop
final mist
Why settle for either when you can ask for unique armor sets?
Sorry those would cost a raid tier
pallid quiver
Why settle for either when you can ask for unique armor sets?
because color choice good so you can avoid ass kicking outfits/rainbow pimp gear
chilly brook
You can’t tell me it’s not realistic to get a unique armor set for m+
chilly brook
When we got black Dragonflight armor sets for world content
waxen frigate
Why would you for dungeons
uneven mason
I mean, it is?
pallid quiver
10/10 unrealistic because then they'd have to spend money on the art team
chilly brook
You don’t get a unique set for raid vs PvP
We used to
uneven mason
So Griff, bear with me
chilly brook
They literally did this for every expansion up until legion
pallid quiver
A hot minute back, iirc
final mist
PvP sets have always been recolors
uneven mason
Dungeon Armor looks different than raid armor
chilly brook
PvP sets have always been recolors
Not in cata
waxen frigate
Maybe like
pallid quiver
But they were still recolors of sets existing somewhere iirc
chilly brook
Nor in WoD
torn gulch
PvP sets have always been recolors
nope
waxen frigate
M+ enchants like PvP enchants?
jagged pier
im of the belief things aquired on classic servers should be unlocked on main servers
dont at me
waxen frigate
Also speaking of mogs, my warrior drip 😤
waxen frigate
im of the belief things aquired on classic servers should be unlocked on main se...
Depends on the thing
Scarab lord fuck no
chilly brook
Tldr it’s entirely possible for them to do unique armor sets for m+
It could literally just be by armor type
waxen frigate
Tldr it’s entirely possible for them to do unique armor sets for m+
It’s certainly possible I just don’t think it’s realistic to expect it
chilly brook
So cloth/leather/mail/plate
chilly brook
It’s certainly possible I just don’t think it’s realistic to expect it
I do because we’ve had it in the past
We had it this patch
We randomly got black Dragonflight armor
For WORLD CONTENT
And they’re good asf
torn gulch
yea the world content armor is better than a lot of raid and pvp sets
waxen frigate
im of the belief things aquired on classic servers should be unlocked on main se...
I think it would be nice to have something similar but unique a la “Scarab Prince” or like “The Undying Wrath”
torn gulch
it's crazy this patch
jagged pier
thats subjective i dont like them personally
waxen frigate
Inspired by the original titles but different
jagged pier
I think it would be nice to have something similar but unique a la “Scarab Princ...
fuck u i want my zulian tiger
waxen frigate
And they’re good asf
Yeah tbh the world quest gear is beyond drippy
waxen frigate
fuck u i want my zulian tiger <:keks:936231610850897992>
Speedy Zulian Tiger not swift ez fix
:^)
sleek current
Yeah tbh the world quest gear is beyond drippy
The shoulders look horrific on an Orc imo.
waxen frigate
Doesn’t detract from the original prestige but is different if you take a closer look
waxen frigate
The shoulders look horrific on an Orc imo.
As they should, horde scum
waxen frigate
Also speaking of mogs, my warrior drip 😤
Everything looks good on a hero of the alliance
final mist
Not in cata
Cata PvP sets were all recolors of the same set, as was the case in MoP and WoD. Other expansions are just recolors of the tier sets.
sleek current
I'd be a Human but, then I have to go to Stormwind. It just doesn't have the same charm as Orgrimmar.
final mist
They weren't unique per season.
waxen frigate
I'd be a Human but, then I have to go to Stormwind. It just doesn't have the sam...
Yeah it smells much better and has plumbing
chilly brook
Cata PvP sets were all recolors of the same set, as was the case in MoP and WoD....
WotLK sets were very different season to season
hardy snow
I'd be a Human but, then I have to go to Stormwind. It just doesn't have the sam...
huts made of mud and cow sh*t, indeed charming
chilly brook
Extra parts etc.
sleek current
Exactly. I can shit in the middle of Orgrimmar and no one bats an eye. I go to stormwind and all of a sudden it's a "problem" and I'm "disgusting"
chilly brook
I’m fine if most of it is recolors but it was UNIQUE
waxen frigate
huts made of mud and cow sh*t, indeed charming
Based alliance enjoyer
final mist
Adding additional glow effects didn't make them super unique IMO
chilly brook
I’m not talking just glow effects
Warrior shoulders and helmet specifically got more spikes
Went from none
To having some
To having large ones
waxen frigate
That’s a very slim difference imo but I get what you’re saying
chilly brook
That wasn’t what I was talking about specifically
final mist
That's an example of what I'm talking about
Essentially just a recolor
And the elite sets per season were just recolors of the second
chilly brook
Talking about this to this
lofty mica
Does the increase duration of well fed meals by 100% count as an embellishment? Or can I use that one + two other embellishments?
chilly brook
Regardless the point really is just that we had pvp specific armor sets
I don’t care if they recycle the same pvp set in an expansion
But it’s at least unique to pvp
torn gulch
Does the increase duration of well fed meals by 100% count as an embellishment? ...
you can use that one+2 other
chilly brook
M+ should have the same thing, not just recolors of a raid set
lofty mica
you can use that one+2 other
Cheers
chilly brook
You can even just do one set of armor, no recolors and only available once throughout an expansion or something
Does that make sense? @final mist
WoD specifically had some of the coolest armor available in game for pvp the first season
I wish I was good enough at the time to have gotten this
Still some of the best animations I’ve ever seen on armor came from that season
Let the artists go wild
chilly brook
It is
For multiple classes
Like criminal that they produced those sets and haven’t done anything near them since
untold adder
how many of these do i need to turn them in to forgestorm?
chilly brook
Like lemme be Emperor Zurg on my DK
torn gulch
0
dusky canopy
how many of these do i need to turn them in to forgestorm?
At least 7
gloomy hazel
Anyone have any tips for surviving mythic experiments as prot warrior? I am getting absolutely blasted compared to my other tank.
gloomy hazel
Should I prioritize shield block with rage over ignore pain after I take a big hit and both have ended/expired?
urban portal
gloomy hazel
It's not usually but it happened a few times when I would go out to grab 2nd boss.
lusty grotto
he means shield block is the one you need to keep up at all times
its not a decision
you have to
gloomy hazel
I thought he meant because generally you still have a few seconds of shield block when ignore pain is down.
lusty grotto
IP uptime does not matter
SB uptime does
if IP runs out, it doesnt have much of an impact
except on very niche pure magic damage scenarios and/or bleed scenarios
SB ups your damage and makes you the king of physical mititation
you want the rage for SB
you use IP when close to capping
as a rage dump
thats it
latent steppe
guys any suggestions for +21 uldaman tanking? them basilisks are tearing me apart...
gloomy hazel
So does SB help reduce damage via the dot from infused strikes, or only the cast it does?
Becasue the dot is magic but the hit is physical
jagged pier
guys any suggestions for +21 uldaman tanking? them basilisks are tearing me apar...
kite
daring marlin
yep
blazing condor
peeporun
latent steppe
aight
daring marlin
throw slows on them and run like a bitch
latent steppe
thanks brothers
- is 421 diurna ring worth using over 441's? it has no socket tho so
jagged pier
on ST
edgy bone
What's the best spell reflect essentials weakaura/addon for this Season?
uncut thunder
Any tips on Zskarn? Getting absolutely trucked and running out of defensives quickly
tropic gorge
It's Friday boys. Raise hell, praise Dale
tropic gorge
bleeds really do be fun for prot warrior
Be a dwarf. Problem solved 🙂
sleek current
+20 Neltharus timed. 1 down 7 to go.
lusty grotto
So does SB help reduce damage via the dot from infused strikes, or only the cast...
use spell block, and then it will (like you should anyway, at least there, on Rashok, Zskarn and Sark)
sick sentinel
main way i know of that paladins get rid of bleed is they use bubble, and you dont want to do that ase a tank
proper roost
Gz, fortified Neltharus is one of the hardest 20s I'd say for pwar
probably similar to fort HOI, kinda trucks tanks
sick sentinel
i dunno if any tank can innately remove bleed on itself
lusty grotto
yes we're called dwarves
sick sentinel
thats a race
proper roost
main way i know of that paladins get rid of bleed is they use bubble, and you do...
Just fyi, prot pal basically baseline takes the talent that aoe taunts when you bubble now
lusty grotto
paladins also go dwarves for that same reason
proper roost
i mean, most tanks that have scaling selfhealing just have better bleed protection than pwar
sick sentinel
Just fyi, prot pal basically baseline takes the talent that aoe taunts when you ...
for long time it was you didn't do that, so, i dunno what changed
proper roost
Like DK is pretty ok with it
proper roost
for long time it was you didn't do that, so, i dunno what changed
Was a really bad talent choice with the mop style talent trees. DF talents changed that, didn't have to make bad tradeoffs to get it
sick sentinel
why would i quit warrior though
chilly brook
Not necessarily trying to parrot the pally op thing but rather that they have a great tree
sick sentinel
i like paladin for keys partly because they can rez others if they survive combat and now a brez too
prisma crane
and off heal, and can interact w/ afflicted and incorp, and can machine gun interrupts
craggy pilot
Frost Blast of the Brinescales in Freehold is kickable right?
thin phoenix
is a 408 seal of diurna's chosen good? I haven't simmed in awhile but with frostfirebelt+shadowflame boots, it only did 1.72% dmg on a heroic echo
prisma crane
is a 408 seal of diurna's chosen good? I haven't simmed in awhile but with frost...
at 408 w/o a socket you can replace with a high level ring
craggy pilot
that's the aoe hit right?
yup
so i guess focus that kick rather than the water bolt 😄
prisma crane
yes
prisma crane
water bolts are good to stop too but not nearly as dangerous
proper roost
On high fort keys u need to kick water bolts so they desync
craggy pilot
still timed it though haha
proper roost
cuz they will oneshot people
thin phoenix
at 408 w/o a socket you can replace with a high level ring
guess it's time. thanks
prisma crane
yea, just sim it though, should be fairly accurate
it falls off quicker in aoe than ST
thin phoenix
yeah i mean but if it's doing less than 2% on a mostly ST fight that's probably not as good
prisma crane
that's 2% of free itemization
it still contributes w/ the crit and vers it has
which is why it punches above its weight
but eventually it'll fall behind, yes
uncut thunder
Play a paldin or three tank
I know, right? We essentially did that
waxen frigate
Ty ty
uncut thunder
We’re 3 tanking and I’m banished to BDK prison 😢
Yeah we just made that change and im on bomb duty.
waxen frigate
My GM is playing his vdh for bombs
So it’s me (brew main on bdk), ppala, and a lock main on vdh
Worst boss in the raid
One of the worst I’ve ever progged
proper roost
raid tanking this tier seems like it would make you want to die
like the least inventive 2 tank mechanics in a raid
i guess in vault too
daring marlin
holy fucking shit
after 4 hours
killed sark in a heroic pug and an evoker traded me curio
only tuesday from now on
thin phoenix
gz. after i got my 4 set, the dps players been put to shame
thin phoenix
3rd lowest dps always lower than me on trash
ruby musk
Idk about SL raiding cause I dipped out after nathria, but Zskarn just feels miserable
chilly brook
I mean painsmith was sick
Loved the fight
But zskarn honestly doesn’t look that bad at all lol
ruby musk
Blizzard got bored with taunt swaps and decided to give tanks something to do in between which is mostly fine but if anything happens you get fd for timing
chilly brook
I mean in fairness you can just trivialize that and 3 tank strat
chilly brook
Like you can still force things
It’s just not boss position based and instead is player based
Like all they’ve done is remove the ability for people to just ignore everything and severely nerfed boss hp
ruby musk
Yeah, it just sucks when you've got shitters who get confused when you ask them to hit a defensive and eat a bomb
I like the fight on paper
At least it's something newish
gusty stratus
Anyone recommend an addon that yells out mana low etc or any M+ must haves
icy oxide
can you put a shadowflame armor patch on shield as an embellishment?
or is that not recommended
mighty valley
you can, only reason not to is if you offspec dps a lot and want to use the same embellishment setup on both specs
woven gust
some prot buffs. noice
fresh igloo
I'm guessing we still don't take thunderlord due to the de-synch of cooldowns
oblique owl
oh shit nice
chilly brook
Probably correct
proper roost
Yo wtf pwar buff pog
they actually compensated for the shield charge talent nerf thing
Didnt nome estimate it at a 7% ish nerf
noble lynx
proper roost
So its a small increase from that pog
chrome falcon
poggies
sharp dew
pretty pog
chrome falcon
i'm progging rashok and that spell block buff
is so so good
because it means you can spell block almost every single combo
chilly brook
the TL buff too
Doubt we’ll take it
daring marlin
I'm just saying dude
strong forum
TL buff is irrelevant
chrome falcon
TL still probably dogshit
strong forum
talent is still dead
chilly brook
This is like back to shadowlands levels of TL
daring marlin
pallies prolly crying bigly in HoW
daring marlin
and you know if the damage is THAT GOOD people are gonna swap to warrior again
utility shmutility
strong forum
no they wont
sharp dew
It’d need to be legion level
don't make me remember and cry
chilly brook
Warrior has to be head and shoulders above any other tank spec for people to swap
proper roost
i mean still useless for a bunch of affixes lol
prisma crane
i still stand by this, we have to be WAY better to be picked
we dont have the utility others have
chilly brook
Utility is a meme
astral crystal
Lol pally is beyond busted for reasons that are totally unrelated to the buffs warriors got
daring marlin
never did have the utility others had
prisma crane
all things equal AF and we wont get picked
daring marlin
never mattered
prisma crane
absolutely matters
chilly brook
People only care about utility when the tank is good
strong forum
^
proper roost
but yeah, as said before, ppal had the same utility in SL
earnest canyon
buffs 
proper roost
and was not insane so
chilly brook
It’s a literal meme
daring marlin
but yeah, as said before, ppal had the same utility in SL
LITERALLY THIS
prisma crane
obviously utility isnt better than raw viability
but like i said, we have to be outright better to be swapped to
on equal footing we're in last
proper roost
Is an 8% pwar damage buff actually VDH damage or is this hopium overdose
prisma crane
or close to it
proper roost
🤨
mighty valley
if they want us to take thunderlord they're gonna have to free up some points
proper roost
nome usually doesnt od on hopium
chilly brook
if they want us to take thunderlord they're gonna have to free up some points
They’re going to have to make it legion levels again for us to take it period
proper roost
i think
sleek current
Buffs incoming boys!
sharp dew
itt's a lot of dmg but vdh is just in it's own league atm
chrome falcon
They’re going to have to make it legion levels again for us to take it period
even then
sleek current
Whhooooo
chrome falcon
you could give us legion thunderlord rn
and it wouldn't be half as good as it was in legion
because demo shout is weaker
and on the GCD
prisma crane
to be clear, im happy with the changes, just not trying fall for the copium that this will make us sought after again
mighty valley
it would have to be insanely strong for us to take it instead of other talents at that tier, there's just not much flexibility there
chilly brook
and on the GCD
It’d probably be worth because of the insane amount of rage gen even while on gcd
chrome falcon
and demo shout lining up with our CDs is more important than it was in legion
sharp dew
meanwhile blood gets 8% blanket, they need 20%+
mighty valley
man, that middle section is so tight that it's painful to take spell block right now
chilly brook
But like I said it’d need to be uncapped
proper roost
make thunderlord put demo shout off gcd as a tertiary effect, obviously
prisma crane
i feel like shorter Spell block CD would be better than longer duration, not even close
sharp dew
i feel like shorter Spell block CD would be better than longer duration, not eve...
this
prisma crane
unless somehow they allow SB to affect dots on us, which makes no sense anyways and would never happen
chilly brook
Tbh
mighty valley
spell block is strong as is, just want it to be easier to pick up
was ok last season until they made bolster mandatory
chilly brook
I’d be interested to see how a talent that reduces the effectiveness of IP but grants us like 30-40% reduced effects on dots would do
shut summit
😎
chrome falcon
😎
chilly brook
Maybe I’m gigabraining this too much
chrome falcon
no i think taking less damage from dots would be a very nice talent
slender terrace
what are we dropping for TL?
chilly brook
But a talent branch that makes us better into dots would be very welcome
chrome falcon
forgotten experiments feels horrific to tank even with good gear
and i don't even want to think about tanking zskarn
chrome falcon
forgotten experiments feels horrific to tank even with good gear
(pressing defensive stance makes me sad)
pallid quiver
give us a talent that makes it so execute is off the GCD and free when we're under the effect of a dot
prisma crane
i feel like i'd consider TL if they fucking took DS off the goddamn GCD
chilly brook
It should be
chrome falcon
chilly brook
It’s like the only defensive button that doesn’t do damage that still is on it
So weird
prisma crane
defensives and CCs should NOT be in the GCD outside of pvp
pallid quiver
it's all bfa's fault
chilly brook
Yes it is
prisma crane
i choose to focus my aim on devs that arent focused as sharply as they should be for how a class "feels"
DS on the GCD almost feels bad to press
even with all it gives
chilly brook
It does I wish it wasn’t but I can’t change it so I don’t worry about it too much
prisma crane
can keep asking for them to do it though
chilly brook
Yeah I just prefer not to keep beating a dead horse in the discord
prisma crane
🐎
chrome falcon
at least our 2 biggest damage CDs are dots
prisma crane
more shit off the GCD is a hill i will die on
chrome falcon
so you can put them up then pop DS
prisma crane
yea
chrome falcon
that feels a little nicer
sick sentinel
where is the link
prisma crane
add a min to LS CD and like 15 sec to DS and im good
chilly brook
where is the link
oak ivy
Is it a fair time to say
chilly brook
Quite literally a channel for this
chilly brook
Is it a fair time to say
Never left
prisma crane
where is the link
its top article on wowhead too fwiw
sick sentinel
prisma crane
wrong way to help that ability
sick sentinel
🙂
oak ivy
Never left
the one season i dont fotm swap and i stick with my pwar.. glad i stuck it out cuz it felt perfectly fine and now this?? oh fuck yeah
daring marlin
sick sentinel
it still makes me very happy to have more spell block
marble cipher
hahaha, that image
prisma crane
i've never been in second 22 of Spell block wishing it was still up, i have wished i had it with less than 30 sec left on its CD
oak ivy
more damage is yummy
chilly brook
i've never been in second 22 of Spell block wishing it was still up, i have wish...
Yeah tbh the CD of it is kinda obnoxious
oak ivy
yea i dont think the spell block change is huge but it may come in handy
chilly brook
I would trade it down to 10 seconds or less for it to be on a 1m CD
prisma crane
I would trade it down to 10 seconds or less for it to be on a 1m CD
100%
oak ivy
8% aura buff and demo shout CDR though.. 
prisma crane
or make it 3 min and put it on AM
sick sentinel
i wonder if thunder lords become good again
prisma crane
idc, more shit on AM kthxbye
chilly brook
or make it 3 min and put it on AM
Or leave it 2 and let it be AM
prisma crane
even better
chilly brook
Any of these are better ways about making it a better pick
prisma crane
i wonder if thunder lords become good again
nope not worth taking
oak ivy
i feel like if we got too much spell block uptime though we'd just be turbo OP and unbalanced
chilly brook
Eh
oak ivy
except when a dot comes along..
prisma crane
all dots and bleeds still hate us
but having a 2 min spell block w/ a mechanic every... 45 sec we want to block w/ it, feels bad
mighty valley
in all honestly i'd be fine with spell block staying roughly as is and other tanks having similarly sized weaknesses