That’s honestly kinda wrong
#protection
chilly brook
left basalt
And the CD is longer than Talisman pretty sure? 1.5 vs 1 minute?
hushed harbor
The only difference is we’re cool and they’re not
lol and that
chilly brook
DK needs to be played proactively
median tulip
And the CD is longer than Talisman pretty sure? 1.5 vs 1 minute?
2m v 1.5m
left basalt
Talisman is 1min
median tulip
Oh wait, talisman, I was thginking splinter
chilly brook
If you’re playing reactively (especially at high keys) you’re going to randomly fall over
dusky canopy
The only thing DK has going for it is instant full health every other global
chilly brook
You need to pool resources before damage is taken and be prep’d to DS
dusky canopy
Otherwise it’s lame
But I’m biased because I just simply don’t like it
I try it every expansion and just don’t like it
median tulip
Talisman is 1min
Yeah, Talisman is 1m, Splinter is 1.5m, Rok is 2m
hushed harbor
sure, bone shield stacks and tracking resources, but it shines with healing back from big hits. Prot is more walling up the wall. If your defences arent up we dont bounce back.
trying to simplify the feel for his friend and decision making
i personally dont like DK. Too skittish.
median tulip
I've tried levelling DK three times; I always bounce off it
chilly brook
sure, bone shield stacks and tracking resources, but it shines with healing back...
Nah as in you need to pool your runic power
Everything else is maintenance
chilly brook
But if you’re not looking ahead and pooling your resources before the damage happens you’re going to die and fast in harder content
median tulip
My co-tank is a DK, and I've several times asked him how he copes with not being more-or-less immune to 99% of everything
ruby musk
Anyone been using the Lingering Sporepods?
chilly brook
Anyone been using the Lingering Sporepods?
No lol
Trash trinket
Always was
Even back in bfa
toxic pewter
love spell block
ruby musk
Yeah, I need mark still. I like the thunder one.
median tulip
Anyone been using the Lingering Sporepods?
1.5ppm - no thanks
ruby musk
Eww, yeah fuck that
chilly brook
Well I’ve officially boosted my confidence this weekend after having taken quite a while off
median tulip
IDK what the ppm is on Heart of Thunder
chilly brook
Easily keeping up in 16s at like 415
Can’t wait to get more gear on the devoker
Shit is fire
dusky canopy
Yeah they slapping right now
It’s prob season of the dragon
To bad we didn’t get Evoker tank sadge
ruby musk
Yeah, I was hoping for a tank. The augmentor sounds good though. I'm looking forward to it.
chilly brook
To bad we didn’t get Evoker tank sadge
I would have been stoked but I’m equally as excited for augmentor
I’m volunteering to go simpvoker already
dusky canopy
My issue with it is it either has to be so good that you will always bring one into every single key or it won’t be better than a 3rd dps so you never bring one
Kinda hard for them to balance a middle ground on that
The community will math it out and we’ll know
And then those players will be largely screwed over
craggy pilot
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3xjwvRnXbdavX5EdqGgdS2
lol wtf 😄 is Drogbar Rocks rly that stronk hahaha
holy shit
dusky canopy
Yes
craggy pilot
411 dwarfs my 415 Big Toe
sacred pollen
Hello, for a new tank (mostly for M+, fresh 70, sub 400 ilvl atm) what would be your first 2 spark crafts? I checked out few guides and i feel dumber than I was before reading them. A lot of contradicting tips.
dusky canopy
It’s nuts I’ve been told
craggy pilot
even in 392 its better than my Big Toe wtf 😄
craggy pilot
Hello, for a new tank (mostly for M+, fresh 70, sub 400 ilvl atm) what would be ...
1st one shield 100%
dusky canopy
Hello, for a new tank (mostly for M+, fresh 70, sub 400 ilvl atm) what would be ...
Shield/belt both with Crit/haste and shadow flame armor patch
sacred pollen
Which one?
craggy pilot
2nd one just something low ilvl, depends what embelish youre going for
ruby musk
@sacred pollen 
sacred pollen
Gotcha
sick sentinel
i think i took the auto attack trinket of those options
but hey, its a set
not like i'll never get the other thing
gloomy vortex
Can anyone point me in the direction to some info regarding rotation change when you get this season 2/4 set?
fresh igloo
there's a new talent build in the pins
but you dont really change anything except using last stand on CD
daring marlin
I gotta stop being lazy and do the heroic weekly
fresh igloo
because it's now actually an offensive CD
daring marlin
chance for 437 rocks big value!
gloomy vortex
Yeah I have that but when should I be popping Ls? Or is it just on CD now
ruby musk
On CD with 4 piece I think
gloomy vortex
What about 2 piece
fresh igloo
even with 2 pc.
ruby musk
I swapped talents yesterday with bolster and it's slappin
fresh igloo
4pc just makes it more damage.
because that grants the aoe frontal to shield slam
tier + talent build means you get last stand a lot more often if playing our core rotation well. so just send it.
dusky canopy
To optimize SS count during LS I would do the regular opener and then pop LS after/with SC so that you can spam SS resets that’s what I’ve found works the best as feelycrafty
quiet pagoda
Hi folks, I’m looking for some information on ‘expected’ damage from a protection warrior. I feel like I am doing way to little damage, even while capping rage and using maximum survivability. What would the dps for a 425 ilvl be (approx)? And are their any guides or tips for rotations other then spamming revenge to dump rage ?
dusky canopy
@jagged pier hey guy pardon the ping,
When should we actually be sending LS in the opener haven’t read much on it just been playing with it
dusky canopy
Hi folks, I’m looking for some information on ‘expected’ damage from a protectio...
PB so far this season was 85k overall in a 19 FH without s2 trinkets and only 2pc
ST around 60k Varys a lot so many variables when pugging
And just note there are gamers in here way better than myself who do more
Oh and I’m 430, forgot to note that
Do you have pogstorm, 2x shadowflame, trinkets, new tier set, correct talents?
Also link a log that’s the best way to get advice
jagged pier
<@179993058186625025> hey guy pardon the ping,
When should we actually be sendin...
at the start
opener should look a little like this
dusky canopy
Oh wow so you do send it right with charge and avatar
dusky canopy
Don’t you sit on a possible SS or two reset while getting out your demo/roar/SC?
I’ve been sending it with SC so I can immediately start spamming SS resets but maybe it’s just a feelycrafty thing
Thanks for the info though
gloomy vortex
Is it worth macro’ing LS with anything like SS?
daring marlin
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
GRATS BRO
dusky canopy
Maybe avatar you typically want to avoid putting cooldowns with your rotational buttons
daring marlin
BIG
dusky canopy
https://i.imgur.com/7g6ZKg1.jpeg
POGSTORM GANG BBY
quiet pagoda
Do you have pogstorm, 2x shadowflame, trinkets, new tier set, correct talents?
Thanks for your reply’s, will find a log and share when back behind desktop. On mobile atm. Not nearly getting to that level atm, perhaps half at best.
fresh igloo
Thanks for your reply’s, will find a log and share when back behind desktop. On ...
will also depend on the size of your pulls.
dusky canopy
No worries post a log whenever there’s always people hanging in here that’ll look at it
final mist
https://i.imgur.com/7g6ZKg1.jpeg
dusky canopy
All I see is the bottom right ye
dusky canopy
jagged pier
seems about right for nels
chilly brook
Sheeeeesh
strong forum
legit my worst run so far
chilly brook
Like I said I still feel good about myself hahaha
Doing ~80k overall but I’m also like 415
left basalt
JFC
dusky canopy
We’re they at least 430 also?
chilly brook
Not a tank btw
strong forum
421-423 apparently
dusky canopy
LOL
chilly brook
Kekw
strong forum
i had to play so much around blazing slashes, not even funny
i actually died on first pull cuz the pull just never ended
final mist
some of these packs i borderline solod
Me in an underrot I tanked Sunday night
strong forum
5 bolster stacks
dusky canopy
Oh yeah they were clappin cheeks
jagged pier
5 bolster stacks
strong forum
final mist
He was literally pulling 2 mobs at a time
strong forum
very fun ability
chilly brook
Me in an underrot I tanked Sunday night
UR last boss. Who even needs a team when you’re a prot warrior?
sick sentinel
under rot can be hell for pugs
dusky canopy
Yeah UR was my first 20 this season felt very easy comparatively
sick sentinel
hard to blame people for not wanting to go to it, reminds me of plauge fall
overly gross themed dungeon
final mist
UR last boss. Who even needs a team when you’re a prot warrior?
I was in one last night with my Veng OTP friend and the two of us were the only ones alive on the last boss from like 80%
That run was insane
Shaman healer in a 17 just going OOM every single pull because they're spamming Chain Heal
sick sentinel
will be amazing to see MDI
chilly brook
Last boss as a warrior is just free
dusky canopy
No tank buster just block and win
final mist
Somehow still managed to let people die
dusky canopy
Ez
sick sentinel
MDI under rot +22 in 8 minutes 30, lets go
final mist
Dude didn't cast a single offensive ability and somehow they still found a way to get people killed
Was losing my mind
The only run I've had worse was a 19 with a spriest who somehow managed to do 30k dps st on every boss
Got upset with me when I asked them how much their 3.3k io cost last season
strong forum
dont think youre at 39% unbuffed
cuz itf isnt +10%
its (current haste x 1.1)
with talents + itf i gain ~+15% haste at max stacks
ripe seal
Am i incredibly unlucky as to not get a single tier piece in vault after clearing the entire raid except for last boss on HC?
chilly brook
I need to learn how to heal on prevoker tbh
strong forum
Am i incredibly unlucky as to not get a single tier piece in vault after clearin...
well your chance is 1/ however many items there are in raid
chilly brook
Am i incredibly unlucky as to not get a single tier piece in vault after clearin...
Well considering it’s not even second reset….
chilly brook
I don’t think that’s entirely accurate
strong forum
idk the weightings of gear
chilly brook
I think tier has a bit more of a loaded chance to be a slot
ripe seal
Fair
chilly brook
I only say that because I only had 4 vault slots done last week (2 raid 2 m+) and had a tier option in both
chilly brook
I mean I could def have loaded dice
fresh igloo
some people in my guild got zero tier options in the first vault
ripe seal
Ye i got all mythic+ and all raid slots, so was just a bit weird
fresh igloo
i got 3
strong forum
i also had tier in my highest m+ slot so i got lucky
fresh igloo
it's def RNG
strong forum
imagine not having 4pc week2 when youre not even a raider smh
ripe seal
Same, just got the chest :))
chilly brook
Don’t even have last tier
final mist
It's boss-based too. I had 4 tier pieces in my vault last week, I know several people who didn't have any.
strong forum
once you kill sark
its not boss based anymore for that difficulty
then its full blown rng
final mist
I took the Magmorax neck because that's gigajuice for Fury
chilly brook
I wonder if evoker Lego item can come from vault
final mist
chilly brook
It is
final mist
I wonder if evoker Lego item can come from vault
From what I've heard, it's a personal drop from the boss itself, not the loot chest
So probably not
strong forum
is like curio id imagine
final mist
Curio is looted from the chest itself
chilly brook
Cmon blizz gimme the item so I can pump some WoW tokens to pay for the ridiculously expensive crafting mats
ripe seal
Is it the shoulders we kinda do not want for the tier piece? Considering it's haste+mastery
strong forum
technically legs
cuz crit/vers
but id not worry so much about that part
youre perfectly off with 5/5 tier tbh
dusky canopy
Didn’t the sim say 4set minus helm?
ripe seal
I kinda would imagine having the 4set with shoulders from Uldaman being "BiS"?
Ahh nvm the ilvl diff is too big once you get mythic shoulders
chilly brook
Ilvl is king baby
ripe seal
I kinda had a thumb rule with swapping items if the ilvl diff was like 4 or 6, dunno how good that is though
crimson hornet
hey, how good is the Screaming Black Dragonscale for us?
strong forum
Didn’t the sim say 4set minus helm?
thats just simming for max dmg
also it was before they changed the stats on tierset
when we wrote profile helmet had no haste
now its mega bis stats
frosty mist
Stats on t30 have changed ?
crimson hornet
hey, how good is the Screaming Black Dragonscale for us?
we got it on heroic as a premade and not sure if it's better on a prot or on a shadow. anyone had any good use for the trinket?
frosty mist
There will be some changes on pin post ?
strong forum
no?
dusky canopy
now its mega bis stats
Oh shit.. my dumbass used the sark item on gloves without even hovering over helm to notice stats changed lol..
dusky canopy
Ye small L I’ll get it eventually
small quail
ST around 60k Varys a lot so many variables when pugging
Okay, so I'm reallly doing something wrong then
I'm doing 50-60k with my 2 piece
dusky canopy
You want to press SS as much as possible
That’s most peoples issue
Not sniping resets quick enough
After that it’s usually not pressing your cds as soon as they’re up
Not pressing demo shout before SC
Pressing ip when you could be preventing cap with revenge
strong forum
60k in ST on bosses in m+ requires good killtime and good rng
and also depends on which boss
small quail
Sorry, SC is an acronyme for what?
strong forum
shield charge
dusky canopy
Shield charge
dusky canopy
Pressing ip when you could be preventing cap with revenge
This is the hardest fix imo
It’s very easy to spam ip more than you need too
I notice myself doing it too
toxic pewter
have you guys noticed during charg, using shield charge doesnt actually damage the enemies? is that intended u think
strong forum
has existed since launch and youre trying to override a charge
not recommended to do
same is with heroic leap
toxic pewter
Ok makes sense
strong forum
you gotta wait for one of them to finish
otherwise youre just incurring the CD of both
toxic pewter
i shield charge first and i still get rage from normal charge i think
if i do in that order
toxic pewter
Ok
do you guys consider neltharus to be the toughest dungeon at the moment
having an argument with some pugs they claim its free
dusky canopy
Yeah it’s bad to do that anyway because you want to DS before SC
More damage
DS>roar>SC
Every time
dusky canopy
do you guys consider neltharus to be the toughest dungeon at the moment
The only challenge imo is the mammoth
strong forum
do you guys consider neltharus to be the toughest dungeon at the moment
yes
small quail
Hard disagree. Uldamann Is wrecking me this week
The basalisks are untankable for longer than 2-3 seconds because of chomp
dusky canopy
We deal with the blazing slash fairly well because of spell block
toxic pewter
Yeah I mean they are claiming its free and im like, I have seen a lot of shit go down in there and timer feels a bit tight
dusky canopy
Wait you really feel that way?
I thought the forgemaster was easy
Just yeat yourself into the same pool every time
strong forum
i dont feel that way, we tried on +21
fast knot
Forgemaster absolutely pikes your party
strong forum
wasnt that fun
strong forum
Just yeat yourself into the same pool every time
sure as tank, but not for your group
fresh igloo
Just yeat yourself into the same pool every time
it's not really an issue for tank damage
it's massive party wide rot
tawny briar
The timer feels a little unforgiving. Even an early wipe with small run back can make u be up against it.
dusky canopy
Ahh true true I didn’t consider that
fresh igloo
there's a lot of bosses that are absolutely punishing healers on just pure rot
dusky canopy
My perspective is from 18/19 so I’m sure it will get harder
toxic pewter
This guy in the pug made a good point, its all about the chains apparently. if your group actually uses the chains it makes the place a lot quicker
the chains are mega under utilized
most people dont even know they exist
strong forum
chains are also mega suicide in pugs
toxic pewter
yeah he prob runs with a coordinated group
strong forum
and only the tank can use it
dusky canopy
I won’t deny it I don’t even know what chains you’re talking about
cinder storm
Me neither
dusky canopy
LOL
cinder storm
I've only ran it twice tho
strong forum
there are skulls in the dungeon you can pick up chains from, they work like 2nd boss
explode upon impact
and do millions of dmg to the mobs
but you also get fucked as the user
and every friendly in range
so you gotta play HARD around it
dusky canopy
But not pug friendly yeah
fast knot
My melee kite Duelers Dash through me in Freehold so they can die to chains
toxic pewter
do the chains damage the party too or just the tank
strong forum
everyone who gets too close
cinder storm
Fuck melees then I'm coming in hot
toxic pewter
Ok yeah just seems like a shitshow waiting to happen
strong forum
you also get a massive dot while you activate the chain
before you pop it
it 3 shot me on 21 as dps
just picking up the chain that is
toxic pewter
how does it work getting mobs into it if i am the one pulling the chain
and mobs are on me as im pulling it
strong forum
yup
strong forum
you get slapped around
toxic pewter
can i even block and crap during it i wonder
strong forum
its like a 2sec channel to pick it up
toxic pewter
ok
quiet pagoda
No worries post a log whenever there’s always people hanging in here that’ll loo...
cheers, hoping to get some tips. I see very grey numbers so I'm obviously doing a lot, extremely wrong.
mighty valley
for now i've been telling people not to fuck with the chains until we actually figure out a strat
cinder storm
Most logs are fixed by "press your buttons more"
daring marlin
its like a 2sec channel to pick it up
The question is can you pop bubble and channel the chain 🤔
strong forum
goes through immunities
also cant spell reflect it
and if you heroic leap it you die without popping the chain
what however does work
is teleporting with it, but not farther than 25yd
so warlocks and mages can pop a chain without taking dmg
or monk
daring marlin
damn
toxic pewter
which tanks can mitigate bleeds, is it just paladins
dusky canopy
None of them
toxic pewter
pretty sure paladins can mitigate bleed damage
urban portal
you mitigate bleeds by healing it
dusky canopy
Right ^
urban portal
so blood and vedh
toxic pewter
no by being in their consecration it has a change to mitigate dot effects
final mist
Nothing like SB or such
toxic pewter
no- im talking about their mastery
Mastery: Divine Bulwark
Requires Paladin
Requires level 10
Increases your chance to block melee attacks by 8.0%.
Protection
While inside your Consecration, your damage taken is reduced by 0.0% and you have a chance equal to your block chance to reduce your damage taken from harmful periodic effects
Also increases your attack power by 8.0%.
dusky canopy
That’s just DR while in consecrate
toxic pewter
has a chance to reduce harmful periodic effects
dusky canopy
So like sal said that’s the same as all tanks DRs
toxic pewter
no, their mastery allows them a chance to dr harmful periodic effects
dusky canopy
no tank directly mitigates bleeds specifically
toxic pewter
did you read their mastery I just posted
While inside your Consecration, your damage taken is reduced by 0.0% and you have a chance equal to your block chance to reduce your damage taken from harmful periodic effects
final mist
Yeah they can "block" DoTs but I don't recall if that applies to bleeds
strong forum
which tanks can mitigate bleeds, is it just paladins
bdk
final mist
Bleeds aren't the same as magic DoTs
strong forum
bloodshield works vs bleeds
strong forum
so BDK is literally immune to bleeds
toxic pewter
did you read the mastery
dusky canopy
bloodshield works vs bleeds
final mist
Blizzard moved their old passive talent into their mastery
dusky canopy
That’s some shit
final mist
That's what that is
strong forum
bleeds are physical, bloodshield works vs physical dmg
final mist
I don't recall if it was changed to include bleeds
toxic pewter
it does
mighty valley
bdk is double covered since death strike is a pseudo part of their "mitigation" kit and responds to all damage taken
final mist
Are you asking or stating, because you were asking earlier
toxic pewter
I am asking wat other tanks can dr bleeds
toxic pewter
yeah
strong forum
its just bdk
mighty valley
i mean IP is also continuously mitigating bleeds, just inefficiently if the bleeds are huge
toxic pewter
kind of messed up they took away our bleed removal lmao
strong forum
pwar is notoriously weak vs continous unblockable dmg
toxic pewter
all tanks should get f'd up by bleeds
strong forum
IP is the buffer that lets our self healing keep us up
toxic pewter
ok
strong forum
if theres a continous dot ticking + other sources, IP wont really help you enough as we dont have enough rage gen to not widdle down
toxic pewter
chomp hurts me bad
how strong is a bdk blood shield
they get it when they death strike right
lime lichen
yes
strong forum
its like 40% of all recovery
final mist
It's specifically Death Strike nom
strong forum
mighty valley
how do bears deal with bleeds and monk stagger
bears use CDs and regen and have a large health pool to start with
how do bears deal with monk stagger? hmm.
strong forum
how do bears deal with bleeds and monk stagger
bear -> cds and healing
monk -> cds, healing and celestial brew
toxic pewter
i see
urban portal
VDH and prot war doesnt have a mastery for bleeds
strong forum
It's specifically Death Strike nom
without bloodshield a bdk couldnt recover
toxic pewter
i see
strong forum
they'd just die a second later
toxic pewter
dwarf so powerful
mighty valley
what're the tank bleeds this season you're scared of
toxic pewter
uldaman basically
mighty valley
i haven't climbed high enough yet to feel that threatened
toxic pewter
just chomp
strong forum
obv its just from pressing DS and based on dmg taken
toxic pewter
i gota kite them
toxic pewter
it really hurts me
strong forum
pull bigger
toxic pewter
love bh
dusky canopy
It’s not even that difficult tank wise tbh
quiet minnow
its not really hard period
strong forum
its super easy for tank
quiet minnow
honestly first boss feels like only hard part of whole dungeon
tulip egret
What boots should I craft for the Shadowflame Embellish?
toxic pewter
primal molten
tulip egret
and then can I add the 450 pvp ilvl onto it at same time?
daring marlin
I'm gonna do that chain shit in the next Neltharus I tank on my pally
can just final stand to immune the mob melees and do giga dam
strong forum
and then can I add the 450 pvp ilvl onto it at same time?
either or
cant have 447 pve and 450 pvp one
doesnt work
tulip egret
Okay thanks Nom
strong forum
what
you cant immune the chains
neltharus is half ok
needs a few more tweaks
bh ur and fh are bis
uldaman and vp are worst
uldaman needs more tuning and is giga boring
VP is MEGA Boring
literal 2 mob gaming
just get a priest 4head
final mist
Fathersal is always willing to lend a hand
daring marlin
you cant immune the chains
I just did it in a m+
strong forum
you didnt immune it, you outranged the inital hit
daring marlin
Took damage from the chain itself but I was able to do it
daring marlin
Nah just mob melees
toxic gyro
You can los them and drop stacks
chilly brook
VP is MEGA Boring
Not to mention missing % on that dungeon is absolute aids
You lose another 2 minutes running to whatever mobs are still available to kill
nocturne spindle
i mean
its so linear you should know your route and never extra/underpull
you have like
3 choices ever
(this is for VP not ulda)
toxic gyro
Its hard to fuck up count there tho, there probably like 2 routes for the dungeon
prisma crane
only issue i have w/ FH is the tight timer, compare that to NL where you have nothing but time
i agree the basilisk chomps there are shit, as are the ones in Uldaman
and those snake guys really are super annoying
its easy to kite but they need to increase the downtime if you range it
sick sentinel
i have yet to do a FH
mental scarab
The backhand slaps on the dps in FH
nocturne spindle
i also hate the visuals in FH
nocturne spindle
i feel like i cant see where half the white aoe stuff is
sick sentinel
im still going to say what i said about be careful with the turtle shell boss
it probably wont nuke you, but it has the potential to
strong forum
ludwig owns
sick sentinel
tidal swell or whatever
strong forum
ludwig + 3 crushers
dusky canopy
First area is absolutely ass to me the rest of the dungeon is decent
strong forum
cuz of the debuff
the disease/poison debuff is -25% healing taken
and getting shti on by bird isnt fun either
vast sleet
Does the 4p increase M+ DPS greatly? While I have 2p and ilvl 425, my prot DPS seems much lower then others and wondering if its gear or playstyle related. I generally see ~32-36k (M+11's mainly)
dusky canopy
4pc did 5k dps in the last screenshot I saw
jagged pier
its around 1.5k per target if u get it in the correct timing
but that seems like giga low damage for you ilvl
vast sleet
Right so likely more playstyle or something I am doing wrong then (^_^)
dusky canopy
Press more button
vast sleet
What would you say it should be around for my level and key type?
Haha I feel I am, Revenge + TClap and shield slam when I can
rain walrus
Are you sitting in d-stance the whole dungeon?
prisma crane
to be fair as well, overall dmg is greatly affected by how many things you pull at once, and at an 11 you can pull a LOT at once
dusky canopy
Sit in bstance all the time
vast sleet
Oh really?
dusky canopy
Swap for tank busters or very very large pulls you’re scared of
prisma crane
Should I be switching that out more often?
most rarely swap out of battle stance at all until you're in the 20s
rain walrus
Sitting in d stance is a big DPS loss, only use it if you need the defensive value, then go b stance again.
vast sleet
😮 ooo ty will give that a try then!
dusky canopy
That’s huge free value right there
strong forum
that being said, doing only 32-35k dps with 425 is very much below par
prisma crane
that said, it's not going to fix all your output woes
vast sleet
Right thats only ~10%
prisma crane
pull bigger for one
dusky canopy
Post a log from a dungeon you feel you did your best in
And we can pick at it to give pointers
vast sleet
Ill def do some logging
prisma crane
and try to be using CDs as often as you can, never sit on stuff like avatar or LS (w/ 2p) etc
vast sleet
Thank you!
prisma crane
also, what do your talents look like?
vast sleet
grabbing em, just a sec
BkEAoonA2h02U1PVo4204nicFIkEAAAAIJJRSCSLpkkkWBRgQRiElkEgAJJ0QSCCQIAAAAAAAQEAgiGAIA
https://www.wowhead.com/talent-calc/warrior/protection/DAPAURUUUkRRERpFRRBBNVUVEVEUFVYVVQCRE
vast sleet
I ended up never using it out of fear (haha) for packs running wild so moved that to the CD on pummel/shield slam talent
prisma crane
with how much aoe there is, they usually insta break anyways, so you mostly just use it as an additional interrupt
vast sleet
Ill have to try it with that in mind then, more interrupts the better since I pug often
prisma crane
but if your group has plenty of stops its not that big of a deal, plus this season doesnt have the 500 things you need to manage at once
vast sleet
Thanks for the replies and feedback, will see about getting logs and sticking to Battlestance more in the meantime (^_^)
prisma crane
yep yep, and dont be afraid to pull bigger
just work your way up to see how much you can handle
for example an easy big pull is the start of freehold
most groups pull all 3 packs and lust there
its a huge time saver too
if both pieces that replace the old tier are about 15 ilvls or more each
then its worth dropping
our old 4p isnt that great, esp in ST
if he gained 4 ilvl total, that's about 32 ilvls per replaced slot
so that would definitely be worth it
quiet minnow
You can just cast basically shield slam/tclap/revenge/tclap back n forth entire Ava
And send all cds when they are up
And you will do good dps
Don’t over complicate it
Lots of ppl even not just tanks have problems not using cds a lot
Like Ava for example is such a short cd with am you just send it
Same with most really. Don’t hold cds
Tclap/ss/sb are your prios then you can fit revenge and shield charge in where they fit and send shit on cd and it works out nice. More revenge when taking less dmg more ip when taking more
vast sleet
Do you commonly not use IP when your not really in danger to lower incoming damage, and instead spend on revenge more? I wonder if I am pressing that to often when not really needed
fresh igloo
yeah, you're not meant to just maintain IP all the time. you use it when you're about to take a big hit, or to prevent rage capping.
quiet minnow
If not taking big dam use revenge
quiet minnow
Just have to make sure you are spending your rage, since am is so important
fresh igloo
shield block should be up all the time, yeah
quiet minnow
If you’re capping rage you are fucking yourself in dmg
Since you do so much dps during Ava window
And you can get more Ava if you spend more rate
Rage
Just decide if I am taking too much dmg use ip more if I am not use revenge more
But don’t dump all of it if sb coming up if you don’t have last stand to cover the shied block loss
fresh igloo
revenge is on the GCD while IP is not
so you can dump rage if you're near cap with IP while you do other things like shield slam
jagged pier
no use IP a lot not for defensive purposes
just for rage mangement purposes
i really need that many IPs on pull
fresh gyro
our old 4p isnt that great, esp in ST
is it bad in terms of dps or survivability? because he's constantly dying at forgotten experiments on mythic and we want to know if he should play old 4p for this boss only so he survives
final mist
If he's dying, a tier set bonus isn't making or breaking him
jagged pier
is it bad in terms of dps or survivability? because he's constantly dying at for...
that fight just trucks warrior
nothing to do with tier set
final mist
If you have logs, it'll be easier to see what's going on
jagged pier
i can tell u the boss trucks
ember tangle
i had the same issue yesterday on experiments
the dot is just super rough
it got better as we got better at managing the dot
it's also kinda hard to know when to press cds when it feels like you are constantly getting blasted
toxic pewter
just ran a underrot 20 with a ret pally that didnt talent for kick.. wat...
is that a new fotm ret pal play or somethin
toxic pewter
also am I wrong to think they should be freedoming the tank?
been seeing them freedom healers and shit
like am I just crazy here?
toxic pewter
Yeah like I keep posting about it but its triggering me
strong forum
tank is literally the most dangerous role to force to move with entangling
toxic pewter
I really dont understand why they dont freedom me, I guess I should tell them before the key
but if i was the ret pal I would just do it even make a macro
tawny briar
depends on the situation, for some healers and some pulls/boss timings, it can be bad if the healer has to move.
toxic pewter
yeah but every time?
final mist
I've always gotten freedom on my healer but I also play a Priest so I assume they're tryna get PI outta me
fresh gyro
If you have logs, it'll be easier to see what's going on
for example here he died twice
tawny briar
so I mention that to a ret I played with recently, that he didn't need to freedom me all the time, he could use it to break barrels and stuff on 2nd boss of Freehold. and he basically said he put it in a macro, and doesn't have it bound otherwise, so it's on me everytime lol
toxic pewter
the barrel I understand but thats an isolated situation
but when im over here getting slowed, needing to position mobs, etc, then i see this asshole freedoming the healer just standing there
it just boggles the mind
prisma crane
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/h6dq7aAtnxRZjQWm#type=deaths&fight=44
we can look at logs, but to answer your other question, 4p is basically just 5% leech when you have IP active, it's nothing to write home about in ST situations, he wants the ilvls
daring marlin
tank is literally the most dangerous role to force to move with entangling
idk what you're talking about, I was told it's the most non affix ever and freedom completely negating it is irrelevant.
daring marlin
I really dont understand why they dont freedom me, I guess I should tell them be...
I'd slap it on the tank 100% as ret for the record
prisma crane
its a non affix, but there's a fair number of frontals in these dungeons
toxic pewter
its a non affix but once u get those sweet sweet freedoms, it do feel good, u no wat i mean
daring marlin
I do. Because I freedom myself and casters constantly.
toxic pewter
yeah I mean i wont lie, it just feels great as tank when the ret freedoms me
mighty valley
i wouldn't expect anything to be "obvious" to pug people ever
toxic pewter
I understand freedoming a healer though in certain situations
mighty valley
there's a lot of brand new paladins who haven't really thought beyond rotation too
fresh gyro
we can look at logs, but to answer your other question, 4p is basically just 5% ...
k thanks! its just really frustrating to see the tank always die first so we're searching for a solution
prisma crane
others who have progged that fight can give better answers, but as said above, it's not an easy fight for the tanks in general
likely will need to focus on a set CD rotation
mighty valley
i also haven't progged the fight but this looks bad
the dot is most of the damage but not blocking sure doesn't help
dusky canopy
Not having like 95%+ in raid seems weird to me
Had to check mine to be sure I wasn’t gas lighting
Lmao
Pretty sure the two hits I did take was when co tank splat and the boss turned and smacked me before I reacted
mighty valley
and again i don't know the fight on mythic but this does not look like thoughtful CD usage
jagged pier
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/h6dq7aAtnxRZjQWm#type=deaths&fight=44
i feel like for a boss like this he really under utilizing IP
but i havent done the boss yet myself
so cant say but from what i see alot of things generally okay
just his revenge casts are fairly high
where his IPs should be more in a fight like that
dusky canopy
It could be how they are clearing tank stacks as well
If he’s sitting at full stacks for a extended period of time of course he’s going to die
gloomy vortex
intimidating shout that worth it in m+? doesn't the fear cause issues
soft plume
is it possible to make a macro for a stance have the like highlighted "selected" or "activated" effect like it does on the stance bar or ability when its on bars
fresh igloo
it breaks from damage
urban bane
fresh igloo
so it acts like a quick stun/disorient type AoE stop.
sick sentinel
nope it insta breaks
theres a talent that makes it harder to break, but it takes 2 talents to even get to that effectively
i still think intimidating shout is most cursed button of wow
its for sure one of the top 10 cursed abilities
gloomy vortex
is it just the targetting person that inteupts or also the enemies around it?
fresh igloo
theres a talent that makes it harder to break, but it takes 2 talents to even ge...
you wouldn't generally want that anyways.
fresh igloo
is it just the targetting person that inteupts or also the enemies around it?
intimidating shout is an AoE fear
daring marlin
you can sneeze and int shout breaks
sick sentinel
yeah and thats what i mean, so not only is it shit, but you have to spend 2 talents to get that effect
daring marlin
It's a fantastic stop on ccable mobs
sick sentinel
like, if you had 2 nodes below int shout, choice and it doesnt break as fast on dmg same line, its now maybe worth is as a choice
daring marlin
yogi wtf are you even saying
fresh igloo
you don't WANT it to last longer
it's a single point for an extra AoE stop
it's great for that.
sick sentinel
not normally, but its still a talent for some reason
daring marlin
yogi the whole point is YOU have more control and another stop for the group
sick sentinel
it would have been a thing in classic days
fresh igloo
maybe for pvp stuff I don't know. don't care about that.
wise chasm
I'm pretty new as a prot tank-.. But I kinda like having intimidating shout, and that it breaks easily, just for the sake of having something that can aoe interrupt trash packs in m+.
daring marlin
I'm pretty new as a prot tank-.. But I kinda like having intimidating shout, and...
Precisely what it's good for. 🍪 for you.
wise chasm
Precisely what it's good for. 🍪 for you.
Wooo I'm not hopeless in my reasoning! \0/
I actually just joined here to check if there were any tips for the trash in Halls of infusion tbh 😂 Been struggling a bit with the dragons there, and can't remember if that breath follows your toon or not, as in if you can sidestep it.
atm I tend to back peddle so I only get one tick on me.
fresh igloo
Wooo I'm not hopeless in my reasoning! \0/
I actually just joined here to check...
it tracks you can't sidestep it, but it's short range
sick sentinel
i think intimidating shout is a great button where the mobs can never run far enough to aggro more shit
daring marlin
its more or less the same thing just shares stun DR's
Which makes it worse than shout
fresh igloo
so you aggressively backstep it
fresh igloo
i think intimidating shout is a great button where the mobs can never run far en...
if they have a chance to run, something else is wrong.
daring marlin
They never will run to aggro more shit because you clap once and they all break
wise chasm
so you aggressively backstep it
Yeah pretty much what I was doing, thanks for the confirmation! Just couldn't remember.
sick sentinel
that's just a cross roads i don't want to come to
fresh igloo
Yeah pretty much what I was doing, thanks for the confirmation! Just couldn't re...
just have a clear path to travel without tracking it on to your party or face pulling more mobs
daring marlin
It's not a crossroads because it's not possible
fresh igloo
that tunnel is a bit tight
as soon as you see teh cast winding up, heroic leap away can make sure you take zero
wise chasm
just have a clear path to travel without tracking it on to your party or face pu...
Yeah that's the issue, but at least I mostly run with guildies or folk from a community, so we use discord and all, makes it soooo much easier to keep folk away from the dragon face.
daring marlin
Wooo I'm not hopeless in my reasoning! \0/
I actually just joined here to check...
If you back up just enough you can avoid the breath entirely
Gotta feel it out
wise chasm
Yeah noticed that.
daring marlin
It's like right on the edge of the breath
fresh igloo
but the CD means you can't always do that. if you run intervene that's another option for moving fast. but that 30% slow speed means you have to be REALLY on the ball for the breath.
wise chasm
but the CD means you can't always do that. if you run intervene that's another ...
Yeah tbh I just start backpeddling immediately when it goes off, tends to just be one tick going off at most then and that's manageable, tend to pop spell reflection too, just to reduce magic damage taken for it but not sure how effective that is.
sick sentinel
might do 12 ur tonight, aint decided yet, probably
long as its BFA dungeons or VP im in business
wise chasm
I've heard a lot of people hating on VP-.. But it's like my personal favourite of them all, really love that second and last boss mechanic wise.
sick sentinel
i only did VP on +2 +8 and +10, so i don't know it enough to hate it yet
errant leaf
someone has that wa that tracks violent outburst with exactly the amount of rage you need to spend and shit ?
daring marlin
I've heard a lot of people hating on VP-.. But it's like my personal favourite o...
I like the dungeon as a whole. I hate last boss with potatoes.
wise chasm
I like the dungeon as a whole. I hate last boss with potatoes.
Why do you hate the last boss? 😂
daring marlin
Neltharus still the best dungrom.
Because the inability to fucking jump for some people baffles me.
sick sentinel
Why do you hate the last boss? 😂
he's too fat too jump IRL
hardy snow
is there possibility to have condemn animation for execute?
wise chasm
Because the inability to fucking jump for some people baffles me.
Ahhhh, yeah-.. Those I've gone with have plater, makes it so much easier to keep track on the jump, I tend to aim for the 0.3 left of the cast.
sick sentinel
the joke is you have to jump on that fight, im only kidding
daring marlin
is there possibility to have condemn animation for execute?
spec massacre
hardy snow
we should have just condemn skill in our class tree 
daring marlin
100-80% execute 
sick sentinel
we should have just condemn skill in our class tree <:sadge:820202363359854633>
ya
i really liked condemn, alot
chilly pulsar
Why Battering Ram is considered a talent in the general purpose build for M+?
sick sentinel
bc shield charge very good
old kayak
where is the hidden artifact weapon in the lair? got the text but there's nowhere
sick sentinel
don't try to fly inside heart of darkness hole at the top when you take nazmir teleport
you just instantly die, i wanted to see what happens
hardy snow
Why Battering Ram is considered a talent in the general purpose build for M+?
because its very strong talent
latent steppe
guys is it okay if i use haste/crit for my boots, legs and ring? i play arms in raid and tanking in m+ so. i was afraid if i'd get a punishment if im not goin to use haste vers
cinder storm
this is haste/crit gang here
latent steppe
this is haste/crit gang here
wdym m8
cinder storm
vers is not going to determine if you survive or not, playing well will, we like haste and crit is good
daring marlin
just go haste/crit for prot too is what he means
chilly pulsar
Crit scales better on multiple targets
cinder storm
pale hill
That's a good picture of "what does a critical hit look like?"
idle quartz
Ahhhh, we doing Haste/Crit now? I might have some re-itemizing to do
warm plinth
Have been doing haste/crit the entire expansion
toxic pewter
haste vers still fine tbh
warm plinth
Yep, in the end, the stats don't matter much anyway.
hexed pumice
guys a question, while the pin list Talisman of the cragshaper, it doesnt list treemouths festering splinter
and i see a lot of tank with the splinter
do they compare?
warm plinth
Idk, it's fine. It's just not one of the best, even in terms of defensive trinkets.
hexed pumice
if i were to farm, does it matter which one?
warm plinth
Still a good trinket
Well, talisman is objectively better
Generally we don't care about defensive trinkets though
We just use damage trinkets
hexed pumice
yeah i have one, the dargul one
still have to drop the others
but ty for the response
going into BH with dps loot spec
warm plinth
knotty stump
You guys using Sophic on Forgestorm?
sick sentinel
you guys dont think allied wrists will be good this season
I was thinking about doing that and armor spikes, or flame patch or ffbelt
warm plinth
Nothing really compares to patch or belt
allied wrists and spikes would be inting considering how good patch and belt are
sick sentinel
spikes is just what i have on shield atm
can hunter stilll turtle immun boss 3 ? under rot, mushroom
warm plinth
Just clear them all 4Head
waxen orbit
Does Shadowflame count toward the flame shield ring?
sick sentinel
i always had harder time cordinating to my dk friend" fuck off im getting these shrooms with the shockwave, go awy with ur amz"
strong forum
Does Shadowflame count toward the flame shield ring?
yes
but frostfire belt is better for it
warm plinth
Does Shadowflame count toward the flame shield ring?
I am not aware of any fire damage that does not work for the ring proc. Frostfire is a lot more consistent though, which makes it proc more than shadowflame patch does.
toxic pewter
does the 2x shadowflame better than 1x + ffb take into account diurna ring
or not really
warm plinth
I don't think the difference is significant
toxic pewter
ok
warm plinth
Obviously
warm plinth
If you have fire ring, we suggest you run both.
toxic pewter
does details show damage taken from shadowflame embellishment anywhere
hmm apparently took .33% damage from the embellishment in a underrot
fresh igloo
yeah it's nothin'
toxic pewter
yah less than half a percent
fresh igloo
it tracks as Roiling Shadowflame both as damage done and the miniscule damage taken looks like
fresh igloo
with no other context, about the same ish.
as discussed above, if you have a ring to proc, the belt might be better
but you can run belt+shadowflame if you do have ring, or just shadowflame x2 if you don't.
nocturne spindle
keep in mind if no ring, better stats on something else crafted
even if you end up crafting a belt
errant leaf
I dont have ring and i have ffb 421
ye i see
i'm just wondering what will i craft with next spark
toxic pewter
ya u gotta get those numbers up
sick sentinel
i will fuck that key up for sure
cerulean tusk
Just make sure that people can LoS the thunderclaps and to drop the dragonboyos DoT - ez key, ez life
Also, ya gonna stream it?
daring marlin
STREAM YOUR KEY @sick sentinel
cerulean tusk
i dont need the stress
daring marlin
no stress brother only good vibes from skyhold brothers in arms
strong forum
performance anxiety is real
strong forum
today i turned on my stream for my neltharus grind
but it only lasted 1 key
streamer loot is real
daring marlin
They've been doomin' hard all patch
strong forum
im enjoying arms
fresh igloo
oh is there a LOS mechanic in there
thunder clap from the golems
strong forum
alot better playstyle in m+ than last season
toxic pewter
arms owns hard
fresh igloo
can help healer
toxic pewter
once u get a beacon it owns even harder
daring marlin
but fury sim higher?
icy bane
you got 4p nomer?
strong forum
yes
icy bane
no 2p/2p gamer
daring marlin
inb4 bear becomes meta af tank in 10.1.5
strong forum
we do deserve a dmg buff
cerulean tusk
But the tierlists say druid is better than warrior now
strong forum
we lost 7% dmg from the battering ram nerf but didnt get any compensation so uh yeah
i want my 6k back
daring marlin
hey man still time for more changes
Still gonna laugh hard if they overdo it with a tank and pally goes 📉
warm plinth
Tier lists are always so very accurate
cerulean tusk
I will be honest, I prefer groups with a BDK or warrior above a pally. Pally is still good old papertank in the hands of most players
cerulean tusk
If we can't be dooming over the tierlist, we disregard that tierlist.
strong forum
i really wanna ban the word it self
cinder storm
"but subcreation says...."
pale hill
What is wrong with the word itself?
strong forum
same ban
strong forum
What is wrong with the word itself?
to just remove that senseless discussion
sick sentinel
is it just me or did they equalize the ramp mask pu lls
strong forum
each and every time
sick sentinel
so there is no surprise on one side mobs
warm plinth
Pretty sure Shadow was being a smartass Nome
You said "ban the word itself" so he was implying you meant the word "itself"
You are correct yogi. The two sides are the same now. No double matron patrol.
cerulean tusk
It in itself makes sense, it makes the top spot on my tierlist of bannable words
nocturne spindle
anyone have a weak aura that makes it painfully obvious im rage capped
like
big glowing letters in the middle of my screen obvious
sick sentinel
this is how i ddi my traders this month if anyone was curious
warm plinth
Like big text that says "YOU'RE RAGE CAPPED YOU ABSOLUTE PANCAKE"
mighty valley
where is your rage bar currently
warm plinth
Uh, I don't have one but it shouldn't be hard to make. I am not at home right now
cerulean tusk
big glowing letters in the middle of my screen obvious
Open WA, template, recourses, rage, if more than 100, write in whatever you want - with whatever animations you want.
Don't forget airhorn and clownsounds
nocturne spindle
where is your rage bar currently
right now i have just the quazi WA
but rage is the one thing im bad at paying attention to
warm plinth
In the middle at the top
cunning knot
noddle?
cerulean tusk
never made a WA so
Just use the template wa system, it is super easy to use and understand 
pallid quiver
since it's more important
mighty valley
yeah just edit that bar to be nice and fat
warm plinth
uhn tiss uhn tiss uhn tiss
cerulean tusk
What is the yellow bar?
cerulean tusk
marble cipher
Still useful tbf
was easy to keep up with HR, is easy to keep up with bolster, wouldn't know which of the two is easiest, but seeing the stacks on your ui somewhere is still good to know
final mist
streamer loot is real
maybe i give that a shot
mighty valley
yep! like most things it's intimidating til you try
clever heart
How does a 441 Forgestorm one hander compare to 447 crafted one hander >
final mist
Better
mighty valley
Sim it (but yeah better)
nocturne spindle
(offensively)
if you have a 447 crafted and are dieing you do lose some strength taking the damage proc
mighty valley
main stat on 1h weapons is pretty little
vocal nimbus
Any tips on surviving experiments on mythic?
warm plinth
Clench buttcheeks
vocal nimbus
Buttcheecks clenched to the max
Sometimes so clenched that i use the forbidden technique defensive stance
warm plinth
Perfectly understandable. That fight and Zskarn are our kryptonite. Time to bribe your healer
vocal nimbus
All is fine in the fight except when second experiment is at 20% or so
Dunno why we stack up to 8-10 autos before the 20sec dot expires
warm plinth
awkward
icy bane
gonna scream
warm plinth
awkward again
sick sentinel
my rage high you dummy WA is a picture of IP (faded) if im above or at 60 rage, and then a noise every second im above or at 85 rage.
tropic gorge
i think im done with trying fury loot
sick sentinel
and i called one of them "dump it"
tropic gorge
that's 2, 2h weapons ive gotten and 0 1h weapons
warm plinth
Why don't you just change loot spec depending on the dungeon?
sick sentinel
i tempted fate and ran UR as prot tonight, no spore pods
nocturne spindle
isnt fury like, the worst loot spec to run?
tropic gorge
ive gotten 2, 2h weapons out of nal
people here say run it for dps items. and 1h weapons are in the fury loot table
sick sentinel
isnt fury like, the worst loot spec to run?
no, actually
sick sentinel
because, you get damage focused trinkets that sim high, and you have a chance to loot 1hand as well as 2h
warm plinth
Who in here says to run fury loot spec
tropic gorge
kinda feels like ive wasted quite a few runs into nelth
warm plinth
The only time you run fury is if you're done with weapon/shield
tropic gorge
its a bit upsetting
nocturne spindle
its like double the weapon drops diluting trinkets tho
warm plinth
Or if there is no weapon/shield in that dungeon
tropic gorge
and 2h weapon items clogging up 1h chances
mighty valley
fury is the pretty narrow scenario where you want a dps trinket and a 1h weapon from the same dungeon and don't care about shield
sick sentinel
Who in here says to run fury loot spec
beca use you craft the shield and go fury for 1 hands and dmg trinkets
i think im right about that
bitter herald
Or if there is no weapon/shield in that dungeon
hunting for dmg trinkets for my dps whos yet to find any good ones
nocturne spindle
withhhhhh
forgestorm just being sooo much better though
you dont really want any other 1h
warm plinth
Running fury in a dungeon where forgestorm exists is kinda inting though
sonic path
Haste crit or Haste Verse gems?