protection

[cerulean tusk]

I rather have warriors block mechanics, over Paladin

[urban bane]

or just a chance equal to our block percentage to reduce the damage of periodic effects

[cerulean tusk]

Why are people asking for prot warr to become even more tanky?

[urban bane]

nah i think our tankiness is excellent, im just groaning about prot paladin

relatedly, has anyone tested to see if int shout works on incorporeal?

[cerulean tusk]

Only with the knockback talented

[urban bane]

dang, that's what i feared. ah well.

[sick sentinel]

part of my tw group

[dark lark]

[dark lark]

Yeah we don't need more tankiness

Let us shoot a chained hook that brings mobs into us

Or throw our shield really hard at mobs so that it bounces and even silences!

Or maybe give us the ability to shrug off the pain initially, but we deal with it later over time, possibly in a staggered fashion

[uneven mason]

I'd rather have gag order back

[dark lark]

I have very creative ideas

[uneven mason]

With titanic throw

[dark lark]

These are completely original abilities I came up with

Oh, maybe we can stomp the ground really hard that when we stand in our crater, we just take less damage

[uneven mason]

Press IP

[uneven mason]

Like, maybe they could put the 20% attack slow back on thunderclap

[dark lark]

Maybe we could yell at our allies so hard that it scares the poisons and viruses out of them

[uneven mason]

I'd talent into that, beats the current followup point of rally

[cerulean tusk]

Maybe warrior is just fine as is

[uneven mason]

My gawd

What a concept

I mean, I still want gag order back

[dusky canopy]

20% attack slow + 100% block

Bing chillin

[dark lark]

I want my shield slam to purge again

[cinder nova]

It is. Some things can be nicer, or more elegant, or improved, but broadstrokes it's probably one of the more coherently developed tanks.

[sick sentinel]

thats called shield bash

last i checked

[cinder nova]

I do want them to be a bit more aggressive with new ideas though

Get the unhinged psychopaths that design D3 combos and interactions, throw them at the WoW team to see what they come up with

Because they make abilities - without changing the ability, mind you - go from...

I will never use this, it's dogshit.

to

This is the most based shit

[sick sentinel]

i mean, doom and diablo literally games arugably about hell, demon, satan and the devil and all that poltically incorrect stuff, and guess what, best longest lasting most influential games ever

[cinder nova]

https://tenor.com/view/joe-gif-20430815

[cerulean tusk]

Did I just have a stroke?

[cinder nova]

Conversational whiplash.

[cerulean tusk]

Well, we probably going to see more combo things in the game. I just want my button to do X, and not need Y in 99% of the cases.

WoW is too slow a game format to do comboes

[uneven mason]

Wat

[cinder nova]

Not talking about like... combos like fighting games or some shit.

[uneven mason]

Tell that to ret paladin

[cinder nova]

I mean interesting combinations of abilities that make new and interesting ways to use our stuff.

[uneven mason]

Oh they tried that in another mmo

[cerulean tusk]

Examples?

[cinder nova]

Literally half the Diablo 3 builds are just tier sets that completely upend how you play and build.

The end result is still bloody murder sprees

But how you get there and what you do is changing season to season

[cerulean tusk]

Give me a WoW based example if you can

[uneven mason]

Everquest 2 had a heroic combo system where the group could chain abilities in the right order and do some ridiculous things

[cerulean tusk]

That sounds aweful

[uneven mason]

They nerfed it

[cinder nova]

It's not nearly as extreme as Diablo, but the way TOS tier made Berserker Rage do more than anti-fear.

[uneven mason]

It was literally the only engaging thing in eq2

[cinder nova]

Like, if there was a tier set that suddenly made pressing WW or Slam as Prot worth it, that'd be cool because it wouldn't completely fuck the entire playstyle, but then we're doing other stuff.

[sick sentinel]

my experience with eq2 a story by yogi

[uneven mason]

Much slower paced game that

[uneven mason]

We're gcd locked already no

[cerulean tusk]

But beserker rage as a button got a function, why does it need more?

[cinder nova]

My guy, you're either willfully refusing to understand the example, or just desperate to never see PWarr change.

[sick sentinel]

i played wow and then in late vanilla 2004 wow, some dude joined our guild and he begged me to come try EQ2, so i downloaded it, installed it, and then i did a few quest, made it to lvl 10 or 15 or so maybe, played in 2 -3 nights, for very short amount of time

NEVER played it again

[cinder nova]

For the same reasons DOTA2 rebalances - to keep shit fresh and not boring. Think of all the cool build combos in Destiny 2, or how Guild Wars 2 has gear combos that can make some builds really fun.

[cerulean tusk]

I just fail to see the charm of overcomplicating things. Why force you to chose to use your fear breaker on things other than just that?

[cinder nova]

It's not overcomplicating it's realignment. You're being such an elmer fudd

[uneven mason]

This mentality is legitimately how we ended up with bfa/sl class design

[cinder nova]

No, we ended up with that because developers can't help themselves with external power.

You don't need entire systems to make interesting new design choices each tier and season.

[uneven mason]

That is to say no actual Class design and just layers of garbage bp bandaids

[cinder nova]

That's full-on stupid.

For example, our current tier turns LS into an offensive button, which is super cool.

But it also doesn't KEEP YOU FROM USING IT DEFENSIVELY.

[cerulean tusk]

Tier sets keeps things changing tho, do we need to put another layer on simple stuff like beserker rage on top?

[cinder nova]

LOL

My guy

This tier was literally just passive

It was asleep at the wheel

How did it change anything

[urban bane]

That was the stated intent

[cinder nova]

I'm aware, and it's boring.

[uneven mason]

It's a slippery slope, tier sets should build on the class as it exists, possibly leaning towards changing talents, not introducing abilities that are not part of the kit, into the kit

[cinder nova]

And that's what I want more of, but I want them to be more AGGRESSIVE with it.

[urban bane]

The caps to show he really wants it to be aggressive

[cerulean tusk]

Sounds like you want a new class experience

[uneven mason]

Suggestion that they make ww or slam usable for prot is outside the kit

[cinder nova]

I really don't.

[cerulean tusk]

You ant the same but different, so just swap class?

[cinder nova]

Except it isn't, we have buttons for them, we just don't use them because there are objectively better ST and cleave options. If there was a tier set that made pressing them worthwhile and interesting, then we'd press them.

Think about how Outburst and SFO 4p made pressing and managing your OB more thoughtful. You could just ignore it and send Ava on CD, but it engaged you more to have to be more cognizant of your current state.

[uneven mason]

Slam and ww are not part of the prot kit, just like you're not going to come across a fury warrior hitting shield slam

[cinder nova]

Pressing Slam is a lot different than pressing SS as Fury.

One of these requires a weapon swap, which is completely left-field.

[cerulean tusk]

Yeah, but what he clearly meant was they belong into different kitbrackets

[cinder nova]

Although for PVP shields used to be a thing, but that was a while ago. I'm sure someone still has a shield as arms/fury, but I doubt its worth it.

[urban bane]

that would be aggressive and unhinged design though!

[cinder nova]

Fuck it, maybe it would be. If the weapon swap wasn't a dead GCD for something, it'd at least be novel.

[uneven mason]

Because spell reflect required shields

[cerulean tusk]

Make prot swap to twohander, to do big slams

[stuck peak]

I don't miss the stance dance crap from arms

[cerulean tusk]

Lose dpower for opower

[stuck peak]

I do miss the animation for thunderclap tho

The visual helped alot lol

[uneven mason]

If you did arena in TBC you had a macro that used trinket, equipped shield and put up Sr, to murder those pompyro mages

[cerulean tusk]

Now that is complicated combo design that S wants

[uneven mason]

I'd rather just have Sr usable

[cerulean tusk]

Same, button do X

I like that

[waxen orbit]

The weapon swap GCD kills the idea

Unfortunately

Just too many intermissions of 0 DPS on a spec which has its damage profile built on having as high a CPM as possible

[cinder nova]

The point is that you can create more interesting choices than what they're doing now.

Having LS being a damage CD creates forked options: do you want to use it defensively or offensively? Do you need it for a mechanic down the line? How far ahead are you thinking?

It feels more rewarding to more aware play than just sitting on LS and using it as a defensive. Like, what if Revenge! procs gave you a stack of Shielded Dervish that would alter or improve the output of WW, so deciding when you used those stacks would suddenly add an option to our kit.

Or maybe instead of damage, it'd give you a 1 minute buff that made pressing it grip in mobs, or even push them back if you pressed Slam instead. I want more texture than we have now. Prot has fundamentally changed very little since Legion, and the biggest actual changes were Banner, Spear, and OB tbh.

Things like Spear + Crit changed how we prioritized our CDs.

Banner changed and accelerated our gameplay.

[cerulean tusk]

As is, you want to use LS on CD, there is no choice really

[cinder nova]

OB was so popular they kept it in (not sure why they did with spear, probably for PVP tbh)

[stuck peak]

banner was pretty bad ass not gonna lie

[waxen orbit]

I want banner back

So bad

[cinder nova]

Always a choice. If the difference between you living and dying in prog or high keys was using LS defensively, then you're suddenly expected to hold it.

And if you plan your CDs around that to get as many LS in before you're forced to hold, that's good play and forethought.

[cerulean tusk]

LS is not the tool that will keep you alive tho

[cinder nova]

I get warrior doesn't stack INT bud but did you read what I typed or

[cerulean tusk]

LS now does damage and you want bolster uptime at max potential. So you just use it on CD

[cinder nova]

Bot brain

[cerulean tusk]

No brainpower needed really

[cinder nova]

Apparently.

Did you read the above example?

[cerulean tusk]

All of it? Nah

Was a novel

[stuck peak]

going to insults completely ruins whatever point your trying to make....never a good idea to go with that if your trying to get your point across

[cinder nova]

2 sentences is a novel.

Huge.

[cerulean tusk]

It was a wall of text, that required scrolling

[cinder nova]

I mean, the dude's not even bothering to comprehend what's being told to him, so it's kinda already a moot point.

Alright, lemme try and make it as monosyllabic as possible

[cerulean tusk]

Aight simple is better

Always

[cinder nova]

If pressing LS defensively was the only factor between life or death as a tank, would you press it defensively?

[cerulean tusk]

Sure, it is the only factor

[cinder nova]

Even if it was gonna affect your DPS?

[cerulean tusk]

Then there are other factors

[cinder nova]

So, you WOULD press it, knowing it'd get you killed.

[cerulean tusk]

No, but it won't. So feels like a moot point

Will having LS up 40% more be better overall? Probably

[cinder nova]

"In this scenario, holding this CD instead of using it for DPS is the difference between life or death. Do you press it early instead, knowing it to kill you?

No, it wont kill me

What is this

What clowncar fever dream am I in

[amber siren]

LS for me is like 150k HP? Plenty of times there’s been a buffer that LS provided that would have killed me

[cerulean tusk]

You are making a forced argument line

I can only agree

[amber siren]

It’s not a great defensive but it’s not useless

[cinder nova]

That's the point, dude. Having a 4p that makes LS both an offensive and defensive choice now means you can use it in more ways than one.

[cerulean tusk]

If SW, block, dstance, or anything else won't so it... Sure

But then you would be holding LS forever

[cinder nova]

No, not really, no.

[cerulean tusk]

It is no longer a choice

[amber siren]

Well no, you use it like any other CD

[cerulean tusk]

You need it for A

[cinder nova]

Like ???

[amber siren]

You expect when the damage is coming

You don’t just hold it forever

[cerulean tusk]

You said, you need it for A

[cinder nova]

It's the same as BV and Demo.

[cerulean tusk]

Then there is no choice

[cinder nova]

If you got a hit coming that you know you need the defensive value for, sending it for DPS is stupid.

[cerulean tusk]

A is the only answer

[cinder nova]

If you don't need it, send it for DPS

One tier set suddenly makes LS more than just a CD to survive.

[amber siren]

Yep, A passes then you can use it in a different situation where you can use a different defensive instead as a damage CD

[cinder nova]

It creates choice where there was originally none.

[amber siren]

or no defensive at all

[cinder nova]

And for some reason you seem to think this overcomplicates the game

[cerulean tusk]

There is no choice in your scenario mate

It is A or dir

Die

[amber siren]

[cinder nova]

Yeah, I made that scenario to prove a point that you're not always sending LS on CD with 2p/4p

[cerulean tusk]

If you won't die, you will use it on CD

[cinder nova]

This has to be a horribly transparent troll and I'm just deepthroating the hook

[cerulean tusk]

In real scenarios you will use it on CD to save your other CDs for the downtime

[amber siren]

Yep? Same as DS, if you don’t need to go survive you’re using it as a DPS cool-down

[cinder nova]

In 10.0 do we send LS on CD?

[cerulean tusk]

Nope, it got no offensive power.

[verbal wren]

I don't think the tier set makes it a particularly interesting choice. If you know you need it to live, you'll save it, and if you didn't know you were going to need it (say missed kicks or something), well, oops, it's on cooldown for damage.

I'm guessing almost all the time we're just going to be sending it when it's ready

[cerulean tusk]

Thank you

[amber siren]

It’s a more interesting interaction than how LS works currently, and does good damage

[cinder nova]

I'm aware it's not a particularly interesting choice, but the underlying design element is there. It changes your play. What I want is ones that are more adventurous.

[verbal wren]

I'm not saying it's bad, like at least we'll press it

but it's not interesting

[cinder nova]

That design element being: changing how we play without completely altering the core system.

[cerulean tusk]

Either you use it on A or B, there is no real choice

[cinder nova]

My guy

that's the definition of a choice

I don't.

[amber siren]

You’re describing literally every ability in wow rn

[cinder nova]

my fucking lord

[cerulean tusk]

Cause that is how wow works

It is built around it

Prescripted encounters

[amber siren]

I give up, have fun with your pessimism

[cinder nova]

Yeah, this is talking to a brick wall. Dude either refuses to understand or just for some reason stans the status quo.

[cerulean tusk]

Hey, you just fail to have a good case

[cerulean tusk]

Button do A we use it to solve B. If button could solve C, but you need it for B, you don't use it for C.

All you do is create an illusion of choice

[toxic gyro]

Not sure what are you guys trying argue there. You will either send ls in cd for max dmg or keep using it more defensively and lose tiny bit of dmg.

We will most likely play bolster anyway next tier so we will use it on cd

[cerulean tusk]

He argues you will not use it in CD, I say you will in 99% cases. Sums it up

[daring marlin]

Lack of content makes people something something

[toxic gyro]

Clearly 👀

[cinder nova]

Not even close. Completely missing the forest for the trees.

Like the most hyperfixation I've ever seen.

[cerulean tusk]

Ofc, that is your example that we argue

I didn't read your novel, I stated this

[toxic gyro]

What are you trying to say lol

What funky kitty said there is 100% correct

[cerulean tusk]

He wrote a novel, i read the first paragraph

[cinder nova]

I want more engaging changes to our playstyle than the current tier sets are providing, while simultaneously not altering our core gameplay loop.

The easiest way to do that is by integrating new functions into old abilities to make them more novel for a season, then moving on to a new novelty.

Shit like how Ravager made WW clap cheeks before they nerfed it.

That was cool.

[cerulean tusk]

In the LS example tho, all you did was move it from B to C though.

[cinder nova]

Bonegrinder was fun.

[uneven mason]

I guess, so I get what S. Is reaching for, but I don't believe we need to go outside of the kit for better gameplay, also the arguments for going outside the kit are abysmal and easily shut down. You could probably do something like this with one of the other tanks easier as well, since prot war has an amazing amount of built in synergy and breaking that with an outside synergistic loop would just feel very clunky

[toxic gyro]

Apply for job at blizzard and be warrior designer

[uneven mason]

Plz no

[cerulean tusk]

Plz no, would be bad

[toxic gyro]

😆

[uneven mason]

I like having a functional class

[cerulean tusk]

He wants us to use our antifear button not on fears, so we get the illusion of choice. Just no

Just make button D

[cinder nova]

Literal smoothbrain takeaway.

[lusty tiger]

bruh the only thing pwar is missing is ravager cdr

[cerulean tusk]

I said I am a simple man

[amber siren]

Turning LS into an ability I want to press and bringing an element of risk vs reward is interesting to me. I really don’t understand what the issue is

[cerulean tusk]

There is no choice tho, you will just pop it on CD for uptime and damage

[amber siren]

Using your defensive CD is a risky move, if it isn’t you’re doing dog water content

For dps that is

[cerulean tusk]

You will get it more often, so safe for longer

And you do dmg

[amber siren]

Yep, that’s the reward

[cinder nova]

Well, you're getting bolster with it, but the point is that if you're doing something like a 25 Tyr TJS you're not gonna be sending it on pull, you're gonna hold for your CD rotation on Jade Strike.

[amber siren]

Or you mistime it and die when you needed it

[old sinew]

Yup. You have one less button to press because you will LS on cd. Granted last stand was rarely pressed anyways so… 🤷‍♂️

[cerulean tusk]

Sure that is the 1% exception. S

[cinder nova]

You have a lot of opportunity to press LS as a proactive buffer for building IP.

[old sinew]

Too bad there’s no jadeheart in S2

[mighty valley]

LS is overall such a weak defensive that the "choice" isn't really compelling as is

[cinder nova]

If you aren't using LS a lot that's a you issue

Capping IP right now is almost impossible not to do for big boss nukes.

[old sinew]

I mean I feel like I’m doing plenty fine and barely press it lol

It’s an extra potion currently

[lusty tiger]

mostly using LS for big pulls where i don't get a lot of uptime at the start

[amber siren]

Like the current tier set is even less interactive because you’re always pressing revenge, would you genuinely prefer every tier you arbitrarily do 5% more damage just for equipping those slots?

[old sinew]

You don’t potion on cd

[lusty tiger]

and the occasional juicy IV

[old sinew]

If Blizzard added a dps to health potting on cd I would feel that isn’t a risk cs reward trade off… we just wouldn’t have lot anymore

[cerulean tusk]

Smooth brains assemble!

[stuck peak]

trying to figure out what to get from vault this week

[mighty valley]

a decent level of change imo would be going from current outburst functionality to s4 functionality, with the bonus one on avatar - a little extra thing to work around so you don't miss procs

obviously they won't do the same thing twice but that's a reasonable kind of tier set gameplay change

[cinder nova]

Here's a good example: you can use LS proactively or reactively and both are correct choices.

LS can be used reactively if you get nuked by something that you either didn't anticipate or fucked up because it's both a heal and a health buff.

LS can be used proactively to elevate your IP cap to make taking a big buster safer since you have both the health buff and the elevated cap to create less spiky hits.

[toxic gyro]

If we play bolster next tier you’ll use it on cd more or less anyway for shield block

[stuck peak]

I managed to get my bis hands from CoS and I was trying to use that for the final piece of 4p instead of the hands I currently have. I would rather grab some 3+ ilvl upgrade shoulders change to tier (mythic tier), instead of getting a 6 ilvl upgrade blazefinder's

[cerulean tusk]

You would use whatever is the most efficient. That atm being on CD

Warr got tools to work with that

[daring marlin]

Your second example is quite possibly one of the goofiest scenarios I have ever seen.

[stuck peak]

I think the shoulder's are better to convert instead of trying to pick up that blazebinder's

[cinder nova]

How do you figure?

[stuck peak]

the ring is 20 ilvl upgrade tho

[amber siren]

You’ll be using it on CD for the CDR and DPS, the SB uptime is only a concern if the pull is actually going that long

[daring marlin]

Elevated IP cap? You're reaching way too hard.

[cinder nova]

I'm literally right your IP cap is HP based now

[cerulean tusk]

Sure. But we are right on all our points without stretching into the 1% scenario

[cinder nova]

Your job is to smooth your damage intake as much as you can. Spikes are going to create more unpredictable healing requirements, leading to either you or someone else dying.

If you're creating mitigation proactively, it makes healing overall easier.

Like ???

[cerulean tusk]

So you use LS on CD to do that

Like you just were called out for

I give up, someone else take the wheel

[cinder nova]

Dude, you're talking to yourself atm.

Driving along the highway in the Arizona desert at 2 AM talking to your radio

[cerulean tusk]

Back to insults again

[stuck peak]

for the BiS list, is it better to use the M+ one or the raid one if you do both?

[toxic gyro]

Some ppl can’t be reasoned with. They think they know it all 🥹

[cinder nova]

Like, if you don't have Wall and you know a huge buster is coming, why wouldn't you press LS to create a safety net for a higher EHP.

Just drop into DStance and pray you don't get one-shot?

[cerulean tusk]

That is another 1% though

[cinder nova]

Fuck kinda mindset is that even

[cerulean tusk]

Warrior got tools for days

[cinder nova]

Using CDs proactively 1% scenario got it

Not even talking about 4p or 10.1 atm

[amber siren]

Why do you keep saying 1%? What content are you doing where you aren’t using all of your defensive CDs?

[cinder nova]

Legit talking right now.

[cerulean tusk]

Oh not talking about what we have been anymore, aight

[cinder nova]

Reading what's being said helps follow the conversation

[cerulean tusk]

Yes, bow you hold LS because that is efficent

[cinder nova]

But we already know that's a hard ask

[cerulean tusk]

I already agreed to this before

You are spinning my man

If A is needed for B...

[cinder nova]

Then don't get tuned when I'm lighting you up for being completely lost, take the L

[amber siren]

What do you want for tier then?

[cerulean tusk]

You just trying to win to win, it feels like.

[amber siren]

Because obviously the current iteration isn’t what you want

[lusty tiger]

ravager cdr

[amber siren]

Big true

[cerulean tusk]

I don't dislike the current, what makes you say that?

It just moved B to C

Neat

There is no B or C tho

Ya will be using it on CD

[cinder nova]

Ravager CDR would be nice, but I feel like it'd need something else besides damage, tbh. That just feels like a DPS upgrade. Maybe if the CDR was derived from something novel beyond rage spent.

[lusty tiger]

2pc- SS hits 4 other targets for 25% of its damage
4pc- when tclap resets SS, it can give you two charges of SS

this is what i want

[cinder nova]

What? Like the SS cleave?

[lusty tiger]

sure

like the hammer of wrath one for ret pala

[cinder nova]

Probably would need a PPM

[amber siren]

Because you’ve basically stone walled into ‘this isn’t a choice’ like you want a tier you think will be a big meaningful choice?

[cerulean tusk]

Nope. That is what S wants

I was not simple

...

[amber siren]

That’s not what he said

[cerulean tusk]

I want dimpley

...

Simple

[amber siren]

He said there is choice, which there is I

It’s not groundbreaking

[cinder nova]

They want more linear gameplay.

[amber siren]

But there is thinking involved

[cerulean tusk]

Not really a choice tho

[cinder nova]

I want stuff to alter gameplay without damaging our core loop.

[cerulean tusk]

You do A on B, because it is most efficient

[cinder nova]

Because I like PWarr design, but it's been the same for like 3 years

[daring marlin]

There's only a choice with the new tier and when to use it in the fantasy universe in his mind.

[cinder nova]

But other tanks are a fucking snore

[lusty tiger]

off cooldown or bust- and you dont wanna be a busta

[cinder nova]

Dude just kramers in after being in the server less than a year missing more than half the convo

[daring marlin]

I can't think of a single situation where preemptively using LS defensively, especially for a higher fucking IP cap(LOL) would be preferable to doing more damage.

[cinder nova]

Definitely missing half the convo.

[daring marlin]

You're referring to me? LUL

[cinder nova]

Yes.

[daring marlin]

No I just read what you said

[cinder nova]

Not even talking about 4p in 10.1, we're talking about 10.0 for LS

[cerulean tusk]

He made scenario this:
You don't use LS on A, you die

[amber siren]

Being not dead seems like a pretty decent reason to skip DPS? Unless I’m missing something?

[cerulean tusk]

So you use it on A

That was the tldr

[toxic gyro]

You use it when you fuck up to boost your hp and heal

[uneven mason]

I guess, the situation just doesn't exist though where ls would be the reason you don't die.

[toxic gyro]

That’s why you hold it

[cerulean tusk]

It is a 1% scenario

[cinder nova]

Were none of you using LS proactively this whole season or

[uneven mason]

Not even

[cerulean tusk]

True

[daring marlin]

Less than a year btw

[cerulean tusk]

But he is right on that 1%

[daring marlin]

Clown shit lol

[cerulean tusk]

I argue for the 99%

[amber siren]

Were you guys not using LS this entire season? Because that’s what you’re acting like rn

[daring marlin]

I use it but it's fucking garbage.

[uneven mason]

I used it to reduce Pressure on the healer occasionally, or for times I didn't feel like pressing defensive stance

[cerulean tusk]

We do, but we talking with the next tierset

[toxic gyro]

You can use it “proactively” and still send it on cd 👀

[cerulean tusk]

LD just went from A being right, to B.

[amber siren]

It’s not great, no one said it was,
but it’s a better defensive idea than just… not having it?

[cerulean tusk]

Now it will be on CD, there was only the illusion of choice

[toxic gyro]

Anyway moving into next topic I heard from a trusted source that shield slam will silence next tier so we can compete with prot palladins

[amber siren]

Ok Jordan Peterson

[cerulean tusk]

Other than the 1% cases

[cinder nova]

No way they let SS silence.

[stuck peak]

tried that didn't work bud. some people gotta keep it going

I think heroic throw used to silence/interrupt. I can't remember which

[lusty tiger]

bring SS dispel back

[stuck peak]

^

[lusty tiger]

gag order

[amber siren]

SS dispel would be amazing

[stuck peak]

that's it

[uneven mason]

Gag order

[cinder nova]

I would kill for SS dispel back

[proper roost]

Simply remove both shockwave talents and make them baseline to the spell

[cinder nova]

I don't care if it's a 30% chance like before

I want it

[uneven mason]

Yeah, know why we lost ss dispell

Because paladins

[lusty tiger]

ghostcrawler

[lusty tiger]

arcane torrent rework?

[daring marlin]

Weirdest attempt at an insult ever

[lusty tiger]

JP is the man

[uneven mason]

There was an insane amount of posts from paladin's crying that gladiator warriors were killing them through bop

[cinder nova]

Kekw

Glad was fun

[cerulean tusk]

Stop we ended the convo, we were right. Just leave it be

[lusty tiger]

omg weenie hut jr forreaaaaal

baby game

[cerulean tusk]

Paladins are Op yeah

[amber siren]

Thank you for your input

[daring marlin]

clean your room dawg

[cerulean tusk]

paladins are stronger than warriors

[lusty tiger]

yes honey

[cerulean tusk]

SMF should be a prot talent

Instead of shieldblock, you parry

Cause two weapons

[daring marlin]

sounds like you want to play wrath dk tank

[stuck peak]

^

[daring marlin]

begone thot

[stuck peak]

frost tank lol

[cerulean tusk]

[daring marlin]

muh 1m IBF

tank every vezax enrage

[lusty tiger]

omegalul every boss is the same as heroic LK for a dk

nowadays

[uneven mason]

Tg should be prot baseline

[cerulean tusk]

[lusty tiger]

then we can finally use WW

[daring marlin]

This I can get behind

[lusty tiger]

jk if i had to ww on prot i would unalive

[cinder nova]

Spell Block gets a new line.

Ignore Pain grants 1 stack of Dispelling Slam. At 10 stacks your next Heroic Throw has no minimum range and dispels one magic effect on the target.

[uneven mason]

Remove SMF, eliminate 1h as warrior loot option forever

[cerulean tusk]

The wow forums would downvote and ban you

[uneven mason]

Already got a vacation from the Reddit for saying that

[cerulean tusk]

[lusty tiger]

dispelling slam????? but it is procced by HERoIC THROW??????

[cinder nova]

Who cares, Blizzard can't name their shit coherently as is

[lusty tiger]

heroic throw has a minimum range req

[cerulean tusk]

Why not just make button do X? Simple and neat

[cinder nova]

Yeah, that's why it'd remove the minimum range.

So you can use it in melee instead of having to run out

That'd be ass

[lusty tiger]

one change to rule them all

[cinder nova]

Because free at-will dispels would be gigabusted tbh

[lusty tiger]

remove minimum charge range

and demo off gcd haha

[cinder nova]

That'd break my hamstring macro plsno

[warm plinth]

On the subject of WW, I would actually love if WW straight up replaced revenge for prot. Like same effects as revenge but WW sound/animation

[lusty tiger]

1h ww is crinj

[daring marlin]

[warm plinth]

Well I assume that's why we don't have it XD

[cerulean tusk]

replace TC

[cinder nova]

Give me back bonegrinder

[warm plinth]

Or we'll, why we don't use it

Well*

[cinder nova]

Get rid of this sidearm shit

Like, if they gave Bonegrinder back but made WW also proc SS during the buff

[stuck peak]

the old school sidearm

[cinder nova]

That'd be so cool

[warm plinth]

I miss bonegrinder on fury

[uneven mason]

TFW prot never had ww

[lusty tiger]

how can prot not revenge

"best served cold"

you want to rid us of that?

[cerulean tusk]

Future is now old man, all buttons activate bladestorm

[mighty valley]

it's drifted so far from being a move that you press as "revenge" for anything

[lusty tiger]

i could vibe w that

[mighty valley]

it's just Frontal Cleave Move

and i wish they'd make it satisfying at being that

[lusty tiger]

the revenge is revenge for not having pressed it your last gcd

[modern brook]

my omega hot take is that cleave should be baseline for the class, and furys cleave should turn into ww

[uneven mason]

This

[cinder nova]

Isn't cleave target capped

[modern brook]

iunno

[lusty tiger]

what we really need

is sweeping strikes

[modern brook]

"and isnt target capped" throw that on there if u want :^)

[mighty valley]

game design genius fango

[lusty tiger]

sweeping strikes outburst SS

[uneven mason]

Same as revenge

[modern brook]

im basically a pro-game dev at this point yeah

[cinder nova]

It's just a frontal? I thought it only hit 5 targets

[modern brook]

it might be sQRT'd at 5

IDR

[uneven mason]

Reduced past 5

[lusty tiger]

ye

[modern brook]

but i know ti hits everything

[mighty valley]

revenge is squirted at 5 too

[cinder nova]

I remember at one point cleave was legit ONLY 5

which is why it was dogpiss

[mighty valley]

cleave was once only 2

[cinder nova]

I mean, but back then you weren't gigapulling

[mighty valley]

and was a Next Auto Attack move

[cinder nova]

And needed to take your pants off for threat

[lusty tiger]

it it was still one of the best multi target attacks in the game

[mighty valley]

it was not competing with a lot

[lusty tiger]

truth

[cinder nova]

Legit not being able to generate rage because you had too much gear was fucking agony

[lusty tiger]

?

like too much avoidance you mean?

[cinder nova]

TBC if you were too geared you never took enough damage or got hit enough to gen rage for threat in some lower content.

[lusty tiger]

well

that is very different than too much gear

[daring marlin]

Sure wasn't a problem when tanking Archimonde.

[lusty tiger]

you could go maxed pvp gear and have t4 avoidance

and very high str and crit

[modern brook]

bro this chats smelling like moth balls with all these old men reminiscing

[lusty tiger]

im only 24

[modern brook]

🧓

[cerulean tusk]

You are old

[daring marlin]

bull how old are you

[cinder nova]

finish your homework fango

[daring marlin]

bitch

[modern brook]

12 WAIT

obvs

[cerulean tusk]

Based on pic, I guess 34

[daring marlin]

Maybe 36

boomerfango

[modern brook]

14

obvs

i dont break tos

[cinder nova]

[cerulean tusk]

Just trippel that

42, huh

[lusty tiger]

ancient

[daring marlin]

hah fossil

[cerulean tusk]

Older than expected really

[uneven mason]

Was horrible removing armor or sit to generate rage

[cerulean tusk]

No wonder he remembers what mothballs are

[cinder nova]

I was having fucking PTSD flashbacks during WOD when libram released from HFC

[uneven mason]

Then za came out with it's beautiful block rating gear

[cinder nova]

Sitting to proc libram for max DPS was so cringe

[lusty tiger]

in tbc?

[uneven mason]

Yeah

[lusty tiger]

):

me w 400 block against 9000 damage azgalore crushes

[cinder nova]

Crunch

[uneven mason]

Za armor had lots of block stats but less defense and avoidance so you could be "unhittable" but still generate rage

[lusty tiger]

oh sorry he couldnt crush- just his normal swings did crush damage

[cinder nova]

Remember for like the first month you could solo tank the first boss in TOS because the buster could be SR'd

And then they removed it because warriors can't have fun

[uneven mason]

Most of hyjal bosses were like that

[lusty tiger]

hyjal can smd

jaina too

[uneven mason]

Archimonde popped us through block for like 10.5k

[lusty tiger]

i never remember arch doing too much to me

maybe because it was the one time in the xpac i actually got healed

[uneven mason]

He had a slow swing and spent a lot of time casting

[daring marlin]

another 421 whetstone from the vault

womp womp

[lusty tiger]

tragic

u know whats crazy

i might do m+ as a hpala next szn

[daring marlin]

do it

you won't

[lusty tiger]

i like hpala

[daring marlin]

bet you just wanna use...

avenging crusader

[lusty tiger]

no im not cringe

thats bad anyway

[daring marlin]

:^)

[cerulean tusk]

[lusty tiger]

^-^

[modern brook]

imagine wanting to play paladin

of any flavor

[lusty tiger]

i am imagining it

[cinder nova]

They used to be fun in Cata when CTC cap and Vengeance was a thing

[lusty tiger]

what

is that

[uneven mason]

Wa

[cinder nova]

Combat table coverage

[cinder nova]

lol what the fuck

Oh, should & shouldn't

[modern brook]

yogi u were here when people were discussing that this morning 😦

[daring marlin]

[sick sentinel]

oh, i didnt see the article till now then

[daring marlin]

yogi is based

[lusty tiger]

could you become hit immune?

[daring marlin]

ctc cap prot paladin was so cancer

[cerulean tusk]

Basically summed up: play prot paladin

[lusty tiger]

wait but

i didnt get anything new from 3 people describing it

[daring marlin]

man the spear off the captain lancer rare is fuckin' cool

[cinder nova]

That's the point, yeah.

[cerulean tusk]

Pic?

[daring marlin]

IF ONLY WE COULD MOG 2H AS PROT

[lusty tiger]

and what did vengeance do?

[cinder nova]

Everything was block, dodge, parry, or miss.

[daring marlin]

SPEAR AND SHIELD WOULD BE GREAT

[lusty tiger]

wb magic damage?

[cinder nova]

Converted a % of damage taken in the last few seconds into AP

[cerulean tusk]

Spear and shield

I like that

[lusty tiger]

warriors got this i thought

[modern brook]

i think it was a tank mechanic

[cinder nova]

All tanks did

[lusty tiger]

ooo

[modern brook]

back in the bronze age

[lusty tiger]

so everyone had rage as a stat

[urban bane]

mists

[cinder nova]

Holy Shield
Generally you just press CDs, not a lot of actual tank busters like now

Barring some specific examples you could take a lot of stacks if you were clever or overgeared

[modern brook]

[cerulean tusk]

Meh, not a fan, not pointystick enough

[lusty tiger]

a cutie spotted

[daring marlin]

At least you don't hold it near the tip

rofl

Those are always so weird.

[cerulean tusk]

Night Elf animations, hit with the butt of the spear

[cinder nova]

That's a ranseur

The one 2h+shield mog bug actually slapped though

Give it back

[lusty tiger]

yeeeee we need polearms with shields

amazing aesthetic

[cerulean tusk]

Who would combine spear with a shield, when you could use a gun?

[lusty tiger]

bloodbourne vibes

[urban bane]

leonidas

[cerulean tusk]

Prot now a ranged tank

[cinder nova]

I wouldn't actually hate just abolishing 1h and making everything 2h weapons. I can already hear every 2h DPS screaming and screeching, though.

[cerulean tusk]

Make a dagger, two-handed?

[cinder nova]

We call those greatswords

[modern brook]

3h'd weapons when?

[lusty tiger]

i got 1 of those irl

[cinder nova]

Dude's got a batleth

[uneven mason]

So a bit more exploration - back in the day, the combat table had a single roll system.

The More dodge parry miss and block grew, the less chance of hit crush and crit happening.

At various times in the games history it (like literally every expansion) you could become hit immune.

During cataclysm they finally had enough of that shenanigans when mastery was introduced and the "overflow" from the block rating translated directly into critical block, allowing warriors and paladin to basically be invunerable to melee.

So they split the tables, eliminated crush, so now you roll vs avoidance first, and if that ends with a "hit" result, it rolls again against block

It's funny because here we are a decade later and warriors are basically melee immune and paladin is just immune

By design this time

[lusty tiger]

it always comes full circle

but i always say that the idea of an mmorpg is to become the most powerful version of your character

so as a player you feel "entitled" to basically god mode later into the expansion

at least nowadays it is a little more skill dependent

where it's fairly hard if youre unskilled and fairly easy if you are skilled

[lime urchin]

uh frens, is ravager broken after the latest patch update?

[lusty tiger]

it always has been

[uneven mason]

Guess I'm just an old man who was tempered in the gauntlet of everquest

[lusty tiger]

you are

did you not become godly in EQ?

just things hit harder as you could fight stronger monsters?

[uneven mason]

I never felt strong on my warrior back then

[lusty tiger]

opression

[uneven mason]

I mean relatively I was insanely strong compared to an undergrad warrior, but yeah legit you just got stronger so you could fight stronger things

There was always the fear of "a bad round"

And just getting obliterated in a blink

[lusty tiger]

parryhasted

[uneven mason]

Riposte

Their was no delay

They'd just punch you back

Sometimes proc on the riposte,

My boy Mithaniel Marr could put out a septuple swing and proc three times in a combat round doing more than double a endgame tanks HP

Was a blast

[lusty tiger]

so you just prayed that he wouldnt?

[uneven mason]

And chain cast Divine intervention

[lusty tiger]

skill issue

[amber siren]

Not afaik, what issue are you having?

[lusty tiger]

1. landed on a lamp
2. missing a tick

[uneven mason]

The ticks always been missing

It's why we precast it before DS

[lusty tiger]

i was just answering for em

[uneven mason]

[lime urchin]

all my @stoic erminesor macros are not working since the launcher updated 1h ago

oh, sorry @stoic ermine, whoever you are

[lusty tiger]

that is actually tragic

[uneven mason]

Ping him again

Also I haven't tested my @stoic ermine$or macro

Bro is gonna name change

[lusty tiger]

7 years later?

guys is deftones good?

[modern brook]

No

[uneven mason]

Wat

[lusty tiger]

any bad religion fans?

[cinder nova]

Just you.

I opened mine rq and hucked ravager and leapt then alt+f4'd without issue

[cinder nova]

Tbh you didn't want to get any more coverage than the cap since it was kinda wasted, most people would gem for damage or stam after they were good.

So overloading mastery was kinda wasted

Also when Prot paladins during Dagon Soul would use ret tier pieces

Because the prot paladin tier was so bad

[stuck peak]

yes

[stuck peak]

yes

[lusty tiger]

Wb baroness?

[stuck peak]

bad religion old af tho

I think like 80's

[lusty tiger]

I just love the album “no control”

[dusky canopy]

We still pinging @stoic erminesor lmao

Ikariz

That poor man

[dusky canopy]

Ngl I kinda wish this was still an option

You could use your other specs tier bonuses

[cinder nova]

badwrongfun

[lament scroll]

its the last week so what better time to learn the boss fights that are about to disappear for 6 months... any tips for SBG first boss on high tyrannical keys? seem to be getting punched in the mouth hard

specifically by deathspike

[pallid quiver]

Death Spike is likely the biggest thing for you to worry about as a tank. Most of your defensive focus should generally be based around it. Note that you can spell reflect a stack of death spike, which helps out a ton

[old flame]

Thoughts?
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/us/garrosh/ilyamurometz

[cinder nova]

Don't let your hp go to 0

[cinder nova]

Wait, the stones can go to 443

what

also, probably not? Sim it, but I doubt it eclipses melandrus

[old flame]

424?

[cinder nova]

Check the webpage, says your ring is 443

must be a bug

[old flame]

yeah that's gotta be a bug, it's 424 in game

[cinder nova]

whack

Just sim it chief

You can sim vault

[old flame]

roger that boss

[cinder nova]

I doubt at 418 it'll kick Melandrus tho

[old flame]

yeah it's true the other slot was 415 shoulders from eggong

yeah no dice on the ring, guess i'll take the coins and throw another socket somewhere

[timber nest]

holy fuck, healers all feel so boosted this season. just had a resto sham literally watch me tick down on crawth because he only was putting riptide on me

3k rating healer in a 20

[cinder nova]

Probably plays with self-healing tanks more than PWarr

[old flame]

yup have that happen A LOT

[timber nest]

oh you not pink class, oops i dont heal

[old flame]

or red class

[grizzled kite]

"Parry has been changed a couple times since the beginning of WoW when parry used to increase the swing time."

Wait what? I never knew this. Does this affect us now?

[warm plinth]

No

It didn't increase swing time though

When it did anything, parrying a mob for example would decrease the swing timer of the mob and make it attack faster.

[grizzled kite]

Ah ye, the target's swing timer was reduced by 40%?

[warm plinth]

yeah

[grizzled kite]

Was this removed in WoD?

[warm plinth]

It was removed in Cata

[grizzled kite]

I never knew this existed, very cool

[flat jackal]

I'm dumb, if I time a 23 this week, do i need to do another key again next week during pre patch for a 20 first week?

[warm plinth]

If you timed a 23 this week, you'd get a 23 next week. If you do no key next week, it'll decay to a 22, and then be dropped by 3 to a 19

[daring marlin]

YOU'RE NOT DUMB DEAR

[flat jackal]

So we need to do a key in pre patch week as well? 😦

[violet flume]

so uh anyone knows what kind of keys we can start in s2 at if we are 419~ ilevel now?

[warm plinth]

Of upi wamt a2-. ues

Wow I did really well there huh

If you want a +20, yes

[cloud umbra]

is the alchemical flavor pocket going away next pack?

patch

[warm plinth]

no

[cloud umbra]

so its not troll buying now.. check

lol!

[near steppe]

Hey huys, i have something cool to share. This weak I timed my first 3 +20 keys (NO, SMB and AA). I know theres a long way to go but i would like to thank u who share tips and experiences here

[daring marlin]

Well done!

[near steppe]

I started late this season and was away from the game since mid bfa

The goal was to get KSM

And now im KSH

Very glad

[warm plinth]

Nice job Kranche

[warm plinth]

Sick frost mage parse

BRUH

How do you handle that

I would legit rage if 6 DPS had gray parses on a prog kill

Like how many pulls have you done

101 pulls and they still can't do damage on the fight, jesus christ

like you should know exactly when and where you can use CDs and be able to preposition like a boss at that point

It's not fine; tell them to get good

Like a frost mage barely deserves to be there in the first place and dude is parsing a 15?

[grizzled kite]

Does anyone know of a PoV video from a warrior actually on Broodkeeper and not adds?

Google only lists adds

[uneven mason]

Reminds me of my daddy D progression in SL, had a boomkin and mage getting beat by the tanks, on a fight that massively favored those classes, 100 pulls suffering from low DPS

LoL

[urban bane]

everything is a psy op from moonkin just wait

they're cooking the stats, bet

[uneven mason]

Druids spend a lot of time hating on other classes

I guess when your origin is being the 75% of everything hybrid

[cinder nova]

I was about to be like

??? druid is one of the best classes
Then I remembered this is Skyhold and not Patfinder

[urban bane]

[warm plinth]

actual garbage tbh

[daring marlin]

👀

[slim dove]

no thats warlocks.

[shell mortar]

Where do you see this?

[warm plinth]

raider.io season recap

https://raider.io/dragonflight-season-1-recap

[shell mortar]

Ty

[sharp dew]

the tier set is looking godly for prot in s2 yeah?

[ionic fern]

It's fine.

Not really "godly".

[sharp dew]

Just helps a bit with ST dmg+aoe dmg and having LS be a quick cd so the downtime of cd's is much lower ya?

[warm plinth]

Not really. We already have a lot of uptime on our CDs between Shield Wall having a 1 min CD, Demo having 45 sec CD, Spell Reflect having 20 sec CD. It's just going to force you to use LS on CD (unless you know you'll need it in the next minute or so) for damage.

[cloud umbra]

wasnt the damage component crap? I havent looked at it in a while

[warm plinth]

It was buffed 300%

It's pretty solid now

[cloud umbra]

oh wow

i missed that!

it's too late.. i joined the pally gang

[sharp dew]

well when/if sentinel gets gutted then you'll be ready for warr xD

[cloud umbra]

true!

i'll maintain the war.. its still very solid

[grizzled kite]

Pallys are just a lot of fun to play as well

[cloud umbra]

pally has been super fun

[grizzled kite]

But not my main

[cloud umbra]

ive never played pally before.. boosted one monday.. he's 2500 now haha.. been grinding

[grizzled kite]

You can still attain that with any class I reckon, it's just that if you have been pugging the entire way Paladin have a slighly better toolkit for interrupts and gathering

[cloud umbra]

oh 100% can get that with every class. And interrupts do carry the dung

[grizzled kite]

what I'm saying is that I am on my knees begging you to come back to us

[cloud umbra]

haha

[dry spear]

i got 421 bracers but a 418 cloak. chances for 424 bracers are lower then a cloak right? already got the torch.

[ionic fern]

Roughly. You will swap HR for ITF and pick Bolster:
-In m+ you probably will sacrifice Bloodsurge or Tough As Nails for Bolster (if you need Spell Block then you sacrifice both).
-In raids you probably will sacrifice Instigate for it (or Tough as Nails, unless you need Spell Block).

[warm plinth]

Bloodsurge? That's surprising. That's like 10% of rage gained even in small pull dungeons isn't it?

[jagged pier]

u drop BS if u need spell block

u could also drop the wall

[ionic fern]

NEVER.

[jagged pier]

like what else do u not take

[ionic fern]

[jagged pier]

our talent tree has no free points

so u have to give up something

🤷

[ionic fern]

Je, Bloodsurge / Tough as Nails are the outliners.

[jagged pier]

i agree just giving ppl another option as 99% of ppl dont press SW like at all

[ionic fern]

That is also true.

[jagged pier]

or do content where its needed

[ionic fern]

They play in the way that it's needed cause they don't press SB.

[jagged pier]

[lilac bloom]

doing the shadowmoon.. the skeleton pack.. protection warrior can't face tank them cos of the void cast damage

[jagged pier]

yes u can

[ionic fern]

Cooldown usage.

[jagged pier]

u just need to plan

[ionic fern]

[jagged pier]

[ionic fern]

I'm like 99% sure no tank could facetank that without CD's.

😂

[jagged pier]

^

[lilac bloom]

yah i face tank it with cds

but as soon as i start keeping a distance from theri shad damage.. ppl start yelling at me

and adds end up healing themselves

and ppl die

[ionic fern]

Sounds like a big DPS issue

.

There's legit 1 thing to interrupt there.

😂

[jagged pier]

yer they arent interrupting the heal thats their issue

[ionic fern]

Well, 2. But 1 is priority.

[lilac bloom]

well they say i jkump around too much cos i was trying to keep a distance fromthenm

i clear 19 no problems

[ionic fern]

That's the talk that i receive from the 3k io players who do negative DPS.

[lilac bloom]

18 i'm nmot sure why

[ionic fern]

They are just bad.

Just keep Storm Bolt for the heal.

As needed.

🙂

[lilac bloom]

everyone doing differntly

[grizzled kite]

First pack shouldn't really need too many CDs, healer external if you call for it before the key is inserted is usually good idea. You can also use SW since it's probably going to be up anyway for the bigger pack downstairs. SR helps to mitigate since Void Slash is spell damage and keep IP up, good place to be Defensive Stance as well. You can Shockwave a few casts as well also Intim Shout

When you run out of CDs you have to kite or you're dead on fort weeks / high enough key level. The point is to give your DPS enough time to burst them down

[hardy snow]

spell block/sw/aoe stuns and the pack should be already dead

if its not, you kite and dont care about stupid dps whining

[lilac bloom]

FIRST pack not so worried

is the one right b4 the boss

[hardy snow]

its not that much different from first one, you still need CDs, mobs have same amount hp so should die in pretty same time

[grizzled kite]

Same logic applies. Plan out your cooldowns

[marble cipher]

The "Allied" bracers count as an embellishment right? So since I have Lariat and Frostfire belt, I assume I can't also wear those?

[sweet summit]

correct

[marble cipher]

Meh, guess that saves me the hard choice of going allied or engi bracers

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[ionic fern]

Shadowflame embellishment rocking that 1.1k DPS on ST.

Also, those 2 trinkets.

[jagged pier]

whats cosmic wanderer?

trinket?

[ionic fern]

Yeah.

3m CD.

[jagged pier]

:/

3k dps

guess have to find a neck then before neck season

so i can get new embleishment

XD

[ionic fern]

I swear it was 3m on PTR.

[jagged pier]

[ionic fern]

The only Haste+X neck from new dungeons is from Uldaman..Haste/Mastery
From raid Assault of the Zaqali drops a HEAVY crit/haste neck.

Aaaand those are pretty much your only 2 haste neck choices.

😂

[soft flower]

Is it possible to remove embellishment from lariat? I'm guessing no. If it is that could be good for haste+whichever you want, right?

[jagged pier]

no

[warm plinth]

I'm not sure what your point was there anyway

Oh never mind, I didn't read the whole conversation because I'm bad

[crude notch]

there is a non-lariat neck that you can craft though.

[warm plinth]

[dusty monolith]

hey guys I've been afkish for a couple of weeks and trying to read up on all the changes coming in season 2, is there a written guide on what to aim for in terms of m+ gear and/or trinkets? e.g. which dungeon drops what bis items?

[edgy locust]

what potion do you guys

[dusty monolith]

I'm using elemental potion (the one that gives main stat) as combat potion and versatility flask

[crude notch]

Guides will be out closer to patch

[dusty monolith]

thank you Jordan 🙂

[hardy snow]

for gearing nothing changes, ilvl is bis on main items, and better trinkets are the one that will sim better upon drop

[jagged pier]

and best wep is probably the mace from that black dragon flight dungeon

unless it got nerfed at some point

[potent gulch]

Craft haste crit neck with shadowflame

[potent gulch]

Will never get it. Same as grieftoarch this season

[ionic fern]

Can't craft Shadowflame on neck/rings.

[potent gulch]

Sad

[ionic fern]

This

?

[jagged pier]

ye

it was doing like 5% of your damage fiorst few weeks

when gear was that ilvl

[ionic fern]

Mm

No STR tho.

And 1ppm

[jagged pier]

true

will have to see the numbers

[ionic fern]

Where sims.

[hardy snow]

they also used this weapon on recent MDI, as they had access to all items on 421 ilvl, despite it was not from current season

[sweet summit]

they hacked

[wary spire]

New to prot, how does shields work with ilvl, higher always better since they give more block?

[sweet summit]

ya

[wary spire]

Cool, had the erranog mythic shield and today i got some random 421 shield from vault

ty

[jagged pier]

i was going to say this but wasnt sure if i remebered correctly, but also we do also know that they dont always make the best decisions like a lot of top players said codex was a dps increase even tho it was like 4-5% of their damage and that strength from another trinket would have been like 7% because main stat

🤷

[hardy snow]

yea, but in this case, we should remember that onehand itself doesnt have such big main stat budget anyway

[jagged pier]

also true

sims will tell us the truth

[hardy snow]

and it already have good secondaries

[hardy snow]

if current sims are correct thats not big of a difference currently (ive compared to 418 forgestorm same as my currently crafted wep, with same enchant and 447 equivalents), 1,5min 5 target sim, only battle shout buff,

But I have no idea whether scaling of this wep is properly implemented in sims. And it gets better on 5min st with buffs (1,1k on 418 and 1,4k on 447)

[spare viper]

hey whats the effective coldown of shield wall

[ionic fern]

~1m

If you're running AM/Impenetrable and playing properly.

[crude notch]

playing properly? in this economy?

[strong forum]

playing?

[ionic fern]

HEY

You are playing.

Just not WoW.

I've seen your stream.

[strong forum]

[near steppe]

That shadowflame embelishment will launch on 10.1? Is already live?

[crude notch]

10.1

[near steppe]

Thanks

[sick sentinel]

only thing im playing is mr freeze on d2r and some random boomer shooters
pic related, its him

[supple glacier]

The season start?

Dont know if going back to tank

I was rogue for a cople of season

Coming back as prot

[uneven mason]

Just remember, you're a DPS who doesn't die. If you approach prot in that mentality, you'll be gold

[astral thorn]

Is prot warrior dead? I hardly see one

[urban bane]

No. We're just as strong as we've always been.

[uneven mason]

Because all the fotm Bois went back to their paladins

[astral thorn]

yea I play pinkman these days too

[uneven mason]

I don't believe you

[uneven mason]

Technically we're 7% weaker than we were at xpac launch

But taking 7% more of 0 is still 0

[crude notch]

and 50% weaker when you're playing it

gottem

[oblique kayak]

There is just barely any reason to play PW - didn’t make it bad - we are strong - but others are busted

[crude notch]

"others"

[urban bane]

k

[oblique kayak]

nothing that would affect 95% of people in here when it comes to capability. Aside from Worldtop Spots. we are fine

[uneven mason]

Right, but that's all utility, which as always, you're either a paladin/dk or you're not

[crude notch]

It impacts them just socially and not gameplay wise.

[oblique kayak]

yeah - but this time the season is made easier by being one. Not it’s nice to have

[oblique kayak]

this

[uneven mason]

And after pal got bres dk got plopped in the boat with "not paladins"

Why grip when you can do 90% of your damage at spell range

[crude notch]

except pally has like always had that

[spare viper]

ty ❤️

[uneven mason]

Yup but they didn't have bres, which is a big tipping point.

[crude notch]

it's really not

Do you forget all the non-brez metas?

if pally didn't have brez it'd still be meta.

[uneven mason]

You're not wrong

It was more a statement on the utility that dk brings in relation

[crude notch]

word

[sick sentinel]

still say fury warrior need lust

the reason pally got brez is cuz its canon if you count wc3 lore and stats / abilities

nerfed from 6 strongest targets cuz obviously to 1

[uneven mason]

Replace spear with banner, give it a 10% mainstay boost for the party for 30s

[sick sentinel]

spear of bastion feels like it belong to paladin

but like, other classes too, it doesn't scream out "warrior" to me

[modern brook]

what if the spear was a chain instead of a blue line

🤔

[sick sentinel]

never used it since the patch we all switched to necro lords

[spare viper]

do you always use shield charge right after demo shout

[modern brook]

yes

[spare viper]

can i just make a cast sequence macro with that and avatar?

[modern brook]

more accurately you use both on cd, they just also share a cd

i mean i guess

i would say its not necessary

[spare viper]

probably not but this spec has way too many cooldowns for my small brain

4 on gcd cds is kinda cursed

[modern brook]

If you're doing it cause you're having trouble with the cd rotation, i would suggest just learning the CD rotation tbh, its a major part of the spec and cutting corners on it will only hurt you in the long run

[spare viper]

eh im not trying to be a turbo tank i just wanna be able to spam lower keys when the new patch comes out

[modern brook]

then do whatever you want :^)

[uneven mason]

Give me Lobo's hook

[uneven mason]

Pwar can literally just press TC in CD and w through low keys

[spare viper]

i mean like 17~

[modern brook]

dang that means u have to have a shield equipped 😦

[spare viper]

i got a 379 shield so barely

[modern brook]

my mans ready for 10.1

[spare viper]

super stacked

[uneven mason]

Might have to press IP occasionally

[spare viper]

its okay off gcd im happy

[uneven mason]

Having anything defensive on the GCD is horrible

*cries in fr

[sweet summit]

death strike should be off gcd true

[old sinew]

Or just make the spear yellow so it hits with the valajar theme of the class and rename from Spear of Bastion to Spear of Odyn

[sweet summit]

if spear was blood of the enemy

[sick sentinel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO5mILfZ48U interrupting, left = warrior right = everybody else but especially paladins

[modern brook]

death strike? you mean Victory Rush for losers?

[sweet summit]

ye