eh, i might as well do TW on DK get some free gets
#protection
sick sentinel
vocal flame
I have been trying to upgrade my legs for week to no avail so I am going to have to get a crafted. The haste buff seems really good or is there a downside? I see everyone with primal molton
sick sentinel
u don't want the embellshment ones on left u are showing here's why
new enemy is 100% new entity spawned in and attacked, so things lie the spawner shas TJS
thus, pull pack of 4 enemies, 4 stacks of that haste buff for slightly over 10 seconds cuz u probably TC or revenge or SC them
might be able to get over 20 seconds with good play, but that probably not even worth, since like, you never get the buff again
its one and done, not, when u tab target and start attacking another add already spawned in
uneven mason
Maybe they nerfed e ring to make the other one more tasty
vocal flame
oooo i see thank you yogi
royal iron
I'm looking at the pinned messages. A question is Storm - Prophetic and desirous still the go to for tanks. for reference I'm 2.7k and 417 ilvl
strong forum
Maybe they nerfed e ring to make the other one more tasty
nah
sick sentinel
also
i dunno if u want legs like normal legs that can be catalized cuz i know now they have good stats on set legs
strong forum
I'm looking at the pinned messages. A question is Storm - Prophetic and desirous...
do you do 60k+++ dps in every single key?
sick sentinel
but i dunno if the type of secondaries changes on s2 set, if u get crit versa instead of versa haste
uneven mason
but i dunno if the type of secondaries changes on s2 set, if u get crit versa in...
Tbh I wouldn't worry about secondaries at all, since we have options to adjust SB uptime on other front
strong forum
worrying now over catalyst stat spreads in s2 is like thinking about what kind of clothes youre gonna wear in the summer right now
crystal mauve
Do we have a date for season 2 already?
strong forum
summer
crystal mauve
Thanks guys 🙂
sick sentinel
https://www.wowhead.com/ptr/talent-calc/warrior/protection/DAPAURUUUkQVERpFRRBEMVUVUVFUFVIVVCRE ptr with 4 set, fake build
i want to hear why it wouldnt work
do you really need tan or spell block?
strong forum
according to calendar, meteorological summer starts at 1st june, and astronomical summer starts at 21st june
so if the roadmap is correct, itll be a june release
minor helm
I bean saying this
sick sentinel
astronomical who now?
minor helm
The first calendar date of summer is 21/6
sick sentinel
foreign nerd langauge
minor helm
Or however the euros write that
strong forum
ye 21.6.
sick sentinel
i dunno seasons srry lol
strong forum
according to calendar, start is 21.6
according to weather, start is 1.6.
to paraphrase if i did this right
atleast for US and EU, other countries may/will vary
minor helm
If I’m guessing a date it’s 6/13-14
strong forum
if they stick to the roadmap religiously
minor helm
Yeah
sick sentinel
i do know what ur talking about though, vaugely
strong forum
yeah true actually
minor helm
And the 13/14 date is before calendar summer and puts us at about 26ish or so weeks for the tier
sick sentinel
they sell like a little 6x6x2 inch booklet that the walmarts, it looks interesting but i never picked it up.
minor helm
Which is roughly what most slands seasons evened out to
sick sentinel
its called farmers almanac and it deals with all kinds of shit like nomer said
strong forum
ye almanac is basically the internet from olden times
uneven mason
it can be as little as 1 week if not a few days
Just long enough for RWF to finish so they're not splitting that streamer rev
strong forum
🤷
sick sentinel
at my cottage we had like books one was how to swim and another was a full on survival in the wild
if u got trapped in the wild mcgyver shit from the 1950's
minor helm
uneven mason
If season 2 affixes are as shit as they're looking and d4 has any quality endgame I'll probably unsubscribe from wow until they fix it
sick sentinel
teach u how to knit a pair of socks and how to make a tent and fire and fishing set up
minor helm
Yeah 10.1 doesn’t even feel like I’ll be subbed for it
sick sentinel
like if i could have saved 1 book take it with me all time, would have been that one
was like a rare spawn of fallout skill books that gives +10 skill instead of +1
crystal mauve
Or however the euros write that
I though more countries were using the MDY system but it seems to be a US thing only
uneven mason
Yeah it's just the US
crystal mauve
YMD and DMY make sense but I don't get the Month first
uneven mason
From the states and working for a international company in Canada now and all our clients use DMY
crystal mauve
From the states and working for a international company in Canada now and all ou...
From Canada I use only DMY but it gets confusing working with the US suppliers sometimes
minor helm
I though more countries were using the MDY system but it seems to be a US thing ...
America is made of chatters 
uneven mason
And let me tell you it got some serious shit I had to unfuck with my PR status because I told the first person that my bday in mdy
minor helm
Just have a day > 12 can’t be sillied up 
modern brook
And let me tell you it got some serious shit I had to unfuck with my PR status b...
Imagine being born on the 30th month kd the year
The rest of the world (like on most things) is just wrong tbh
oblique kayak
this fuckes me up so hard a european
modern brook
Mdy owns
crystal mauve
Or just find a way to be born like 01/01/01, it's the only way
uneven mason
Wife has bday 12/12
strong forum
some countries actually go by a 2 birthday system
modern brook
some countries actually go by a 2 birthday system
Whay
crystal mauve
Wife has bday 12/12
I hope not 12/12/12 tho.................
minor helm
Yo can I get two birthdays?
uneven mason
So when I was like wtf is this DMY
strong forum
ye, the actual born birthday and the birthday on paper
uneven mason
And she hadn't ever really thought about it
strong forum
50% of the population has their birthday on 01/january
the other 50% on 01/september
modern brook
ye, the actual born birthday and the birthday on paper
oh
we do that here just on cultural websites
instead of govt docs
strong forum
they do that for school reasons
minor helm
1969 of course
uneven mason
Breakpoints for grades
modern brook
^
strong forum
well ofc breakpoint for grades
minor helm
But without noting a different date down
modern brook
1969 of course
👴
strong forum
it changes up when you would enter school or some shit
uneven mason
Prior to December 31st but after August 31st you'll be listed as Sept 1st,
Otherwise next year
modern brook
imagine being born 31st december 🤮
minor helm
My gms is 31st
uneven mason
My kid was skipped a grade when I moved to Canada because in the US where we lived September 1st was the deadline and then in Canada it's December 31st, their bday falls in that range so up a grade
modern brook
smh
ruby steppe
hey guys! Does somebody have a source of respawn points in the current m+ dungeons?
strong forum
uuuh
AV doesnt have any but teleports to every boss after you killed it
totjs doesnt have any but door opens to 3rd boss after you killed it
AA doesnt have any
RLP after 1st boss
smbg after 2nd boss
NO doesnt have any
Hov doesnt have any
tame jasper
TJS doesnt have any, but after 3rd biss down, the door opens [to add that like in AV)
SBG after 2nd and 3rd boss
strong forum
ah right, 3rd boss too
ruby steppe
uuuh
AV doesnt have any but teleports to every boss after you killed it
totjs do...
tyvm, that helps a lot
how do I teleport in AV?
and what about CoS?
tame jasper
yes
strong forum
kek
old sinew
If season 2 affixes are as shit as they're looking and d4 has any quality endgam...
I like entangle and incorporeal. Afflicted is bugged so can’t give feedback. Explosive seems dumb tho
Just revert the explosive change and take the L Ion
I just hope he isn’t too ducking proud to admit the design of explosive is bad with this change
uneven mason
Explosives are just going to be either ignored and healed or it'll be a dead key week
Because 700k is just being a obtuse fuckwit, going back to the sl mentality of m+ shouldn't be fun
strong forum
its nerfed by 30% already
uneven mason
A bit better
strong forum
but the spawnrate is what is the biggest fuckoff combined with large hp
uneven mason
30s x2?
topaz field
whenever there is something fun in the game blizzard deletes it
they actually seem to hate their community
oh players enjoy snapping lets ban it
oh shadowpriests like to play their class fore the first time in a few years lets rework it
old sinew
The explosive design makes no sense. The whole point of the redesign to me is that we want to allow players to counter the affixes without losing HPS / DPS other than a gcd or two. I thought grievous was leaving because it added a healing burden you could t counter. Now this adds a DPS burden you can’t counter any way except doing more dps
It’s dumb
uneven mason
I mean I had hope for df, they seemed to be going in the right direction and m+ has been enjoyable but they have to understand that making them "challenging" with affixes isn't ever going to work it's the same reason why borrowed power is fucking bad when it gets out of control
Stop screwing with overlaying systems and get the base correct
oak echo
The explosive design makes no sense. The whole point of the redesign to me is th...
yeah i can only hope, and will stay optimistic for now, that they're going to realize very quickly this isn't getting the result they hoped for and will rethink what they're doing with it.
uneven mason
Yeah like big HP explosives literally just adds a harder DPS check
Stonewalling people from completing keys
topaz field
and is there any player in the world that found vulcanic a bad affix?
oak echo
i think they got rid of volcanic because it was too easy tbh
topaz field
perhaps its the same person that designed all the melee unfriendly bosses this xapac
topaz field
i think they got rid of volcanic because it was too easy tbh
imagine u have fun in a key
old sinew
Explosive 2.0 is grievous but worse basically. The design decisions make zero sense to me
topaz field
sorry mb
topaz field
the challaenge lies within it scaling infinitely
and not with affixes being stupid
i had to kill 46 orbs in one pull this is not fun
especially given how bad the game is
in terms of visual effects
old sinew
the challaenge lies within it scaling infinitely
Ok ppl say this but do we really actually want avoidance stacking meta / your class is unplayable if you can’t live one-shot AE?
We don’t
strong forum
thats an issue of dps scaling harder than surv
old sinew
That’s going to happen
topaz field
its already the caser
old sinew
There is always a bottleneck somewhere
topaz field
if u are not a prot pala
strong forum
like rn, is probably the first time in ever where dmg is the wall on some keys
topaz field
u cannot join keys
old sinew
We want the bottleneck to be far, far away
slim dove
if u are not a prot pala
this is true, i only invite pala on my rdru
modern brook
every time this conversation comes up the goal posts are moved
slim dove
ret/prot are disgusting rn
old sinew
We want mechanical complexity to overwhelm 99.95% of players and only hit hard limits with the absolute best of the best
orchid frigate
havent tanked RLP for a long while and noticed that wowhead suggests spell block. any particalar stuff i can keep in mind to use it on?
tropic gorge
Paladin is always in a state of borderline God mode
When they dip into mortal status, that's corrected
oak echo
idk, i don't hate affixes as a core concept. i do like that dungeons change week to week with different ways to counter them. but the affixes need to be designed well enough that there are clear counters that don't just make everything suck
old sinew
havent tanked RLP for a long while and noticed that wowhead suggests spell block...
Melidrussy, lots of early trash, flame dance, etc
orchid frigate
havent tanked RLP for a long while and noticed that wowhead suggests spell block...
the AoE on first boss comes to mind
slim dove
you dont use spellblock for chillstorm.
minor helm
every time this conversation comes up the goal posts are moved
I’ll keep moving em
tropic gorge
I've never ran spell block in rlp
orchid frigate
you dont use spellblock for chillstorm.
oh ok
modern brook
-
you're not invited to groups cause no one wants to play with you.
-
dungeon difficulty being based soley around scaling infinites just removes classes without immunities from being viable at high end keys
-
affixes being braindead easy for 90% of the classes and completely ruining other specs (try playing volcanic as solo ranged ele shaman) is fucking stupid and should be addressed
- explosive change is good
it lets you pull more
orchid frigate
Melidrussy, lots of early trash, flame dance, etc
thanks!
old sinew
1) you're not invited to groups cause no one wants to play with you.
2) dungeo...
2 is true though
tropic gorge
Spell reflect, SW, and iv are enough, at least in my experience in 18 and below
old sinew
We’ve seen it
slim dove
Melidrussy, lots of early trash, flame dance, etc
if a flame dance gets off, your parties dead anyways
its entirely for 1st boss frigid shards.
old sinew
if a flame dance gets off, your parties dead anyways
First tick always goes off?
minor helm
1) you're not invited to groups cause no one wants to play with you.
2) dungeo...
You only get invited to the keys you deserve to be in 
slim dove
First tick always goes off?
no
old sinew
🤔
oak echo
you have a little bit of time to get a stop in before you take any damage from it
slim dove
tropic gorge
Is that the spell where the mob has the circle under them when casting it?
old sinew
Most channeled effects tick the first tick instantly
oak echo
no - it's the channel the flame dancers do (not the one they do when they're dead)
slim dove
the damage of top floor on you is meh outside of bosses.
tropic gorge
Oh that
old sinew
I mean you don’t take spell block for flame dance but you have it for flame dance altho you bring it for melidrussy
But I pop spell block when you take the first tick of double flame dance on the x2 dancer x1 cinder weaver pat
Well right before it if you have enemy cd tracker
uneven mason
Paladin is always in a state of borderline God mode
I'm serious it feels like they were under control a bit and then Metzen comes back and they're like, get paladins don't have bres yet, green Jesus has this in his contract
old sinew
Paladins are probably the 2nd biggest whiners behind only mage
slim dove
and mages this expac have every right to complain
absolute dogshit class
all 3 specs play like shit
old sinew
Rogues would whine but they’re always meta
slim dove
frost was huge season 1 SL.
modern brook
so they can be absolutely broken shitless rest of the xpac and no one will care
yeah but SL was a bad expansion
slim dove
modern brook
Rogues would whine but they’re always meta
rogues such a middle child rn
its like fine
lots of things wrong with it
topaz field
absolute dogshit class
????
modern brook
was way too good at the start
topaz field
@slim dove fire mage in the right hands is the best class at the moment
orchid frigate
do you as tank move around to where winds will blow a lot on last boss in RLP or let rest of the group position accordingly?
modern brook
do you as tank move around to where winds will blow a lot on last boss in RLP or...
no
topaz field
its bfa all over again 85 % ignite dmg
oak echo
i have yet to play with a good mage all season
modern brook
you should tank in the center
oak echo
i just don't even invite them tbh
modern brook
and the ppl that get the circle move to the side the wind is blowing
slim dove
<@229750069367275522> fire mage in the right hands is the best class at the mome...
strange how you see barely any at top end keys
lock has less ramp and more damage + 10x tankier
topaz field
no class is tankier than mage
orchid frigate
and the ppl that get the circle move to the side the wind is blowing
thats how i usually does it so goodie 🙂
modern brook
its not a fight you can baby sit people through
if they fuck it up you have to be ready to wing it
oak echo
very much so. the big reason you want to always stay in the middle too is to make sure the dragon lands on the platform instead of doing the breath from the outside edges
old sinew
very much so. the big reason you want to always stay in the middle too is to ma...
Exactly. Way easier to cleave and way easier to avoid frontal
jaunty haven
Hey, does anyone know the effective CD of shield wall with anger management
jaunty haven
insane thank you! My play is far from proper but good to have as a reference point
slim dove
just focus on not capping rage and pressing shield slam off cd
uneven mason
Yeah avatar is 45s and SW is approx 1m with am and IW
uneven mason
Can’t wait for them to make explosives 1 shot us if we miss them
One shot DPS and healer, like everything else we'll be fine
I can't wait for explosives to not despawn when they explode to force us to stop and kill them
old sinew
dusky canopy
They lurkin in here you know it
uneven mason
Because I see them going "huh, they're just ignore them, ok let's keep em alive"
uneven mason
They lurkin in here you know it
I want to get hired as a cruel ideas guy
dusky canopy
It’s wild to me that they take an affix that we all bitch about and then make it worse than it already is
🧠
Yoo they’re really thinkers over there
sick sentinel
@dusky canopy about explosives refer #protection message
old sinew
Copium frog time but they redesigned thundering heavily so it isn’t completely impossible they back down from this extreme version they’re putting out
uneven mason
Who knows maybe 350k HP will be one GCD for ret
dusky canopy
<@224952758808215555> about explosives refer https://discord.com/channels/148872...
Yogi bro seriously
sick sentinel
u think i want to see 687k explody boy spawn in?
old sinew
Here’s a thought as well - if they changed explosives to not have totem rules, how bad would they be? Obviously if you’re target called that sucks but maybe it would be fine for many specs?
dusky canopy
I’m guessing they intend for these to be something the whole group swaps too whenever it spawns for 5-8 seconds roughly
I understand the direction
It’s just ass
old sinew
u think i want to see 687k explody boy spawn in?
Tbh they already nerfed it by 30% iirc
dusky canopy
I can’t think off the top of my head what to equate this design too but we’ve had something similar in the form of a mob
uneven mason
I’m guessing they intend for these to be something the whole group swaps too whe...
If we can cleave off of them great but like prot has one fucking attack that can damage them
old sinew
I’m guessing they intend for these to be something the whole group swaps too whe...
Which is insane hard swapping and losing 5-8 seconds of party dps multiple times per key is the most extreme affix we’ve seen aside like old old pre nerf bolster
uneven mason
Literally shield slam because TC and revenge don't hit them
I can see it now
"protection has slam for st damage"
old sinew
It’s so weird to me because explosive right now already meets the goal of having counterplay. Pinging explosives and having different classes excel at pinging without as much loss of throughput etc
uneven mason
slim dove
It’s so weird to me because explosive right now already meets the goal of having...
its just wack-a-mole for healers
dusky canopy
I’m no coder what so ever but would it be technically possible for aoe abilities to effect them only if the explosive was your primary target?
slim dove
i spend 70% of my time this week on rdru just killing explosives
slim dove
its not fun or engaging
uneven mason
I’m no coder what so ever but would it be technically possible for aoe abilities...
Yes
slim dove
its not hard but its not a great time.
old sinew
its just wack-a-mole for healers
Right but that’s gameplay with counterplay. Repetitive but it is actual counterplay. New version has no counterplay you just always lose no matter what
dusky canopy
The problem with explosives now is the community stigma around them being a healer problem
round pendant
Yo anyone got an updated details code to combine all the ring stones?
dusky canopy
Blizzard doesn’t like that
This is blizzards attempt of forcing us to help healer
Because like all things wow we as the player find the least damage loss option and roll with it
Healer doing them is exactly that
old sinew
Maybe explosives should only have a 9 yard range and you can counterplay by outranging the blast zone. I dunno.
That way you think about do I want to kill vs do I want to drag mobs away etc
dusky canopy
They could maybe make them kickable or stunnable but then that’s basically just the new affix with a explosive skin
I sorta like being able to range them
Could cause issues with heavy caster pulls but not horrible
They could leave them at 1 global hp and make healer roles do 99% reduced damage
That’s kind of a wild take but hey
slim dove
They could leave them at 1 global hp and make healer roles do 99% reduced damage
no please god no
dusky canopy
This 700k bullshit is wild
slim dove
pug dps are bad enough
dusky canopy
We all know this but like image how much worse it’s going to be when that same pug has to swap to explosives with 700k hp
Imagine adding a random prio target to a pugs brain
slim dove
if its cleavable it'll be fine
dusky canopy
old sinew
if its cleavable it'll be fine
Possibly. But then what is it a risky doing?
old sinew
Auto correct
dusky canopy
He’s saying what is the risk of them I assume
old sinew
Risky should be really
dusky canopy
If they’re cleaveable
slim dove
it adds a prio target that doesn't feel awful to switch to
old sinew
What does explosive do if you can cleave it? What’s the gameplay modifier?
slim dove
What does explosive do if you can cleave it? What’s the gameplay modifier?
it adds a prio target that doesn't feel awful to switch to
oak echo
it's not a prio target if it's cleavable though
dusky canopy
Correct^
oak echo
you'll just kill it passively without ever even looking at its cast bar
last yew
Quick question … how do people handle crawth on 20 and up keys? I’m trying to figure out how to mitigate savage peck optimally
dusky canopy
Blizz don’t want that
slim dove
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa nm
old sinew
you'll just kill it passively without ever even looking at its cast bar
Exactly. And this does nothing if that is the case
slim dove
if it has enough hp to not die to passive dmg you cant just cleave it down
im saying if you have to switch to it but you can cleave off it it
it doesnt feel as bad
slim dove
idk just play the affix then bozo
oak echo
Quick question … how do people handle crawth on 20 and up keys? I’m trying to fi...
swap to dstance for each peck, rotate defensives, use IV intelligently
uneven mason
As long as I can hit them with TC and revenge while having them as my priority
old sinew
if it has enough hp to not die to passive dmg you cant just cleave it down
There’s a very delicate balance point there. It has to be swapped to while still taking damage from AE, meaning it has to die to prio cleave but not due to passive cleave
dusky canopy
The whole point of this topic is we don’t want to play the affix in its current state
It’s ass
old sinew
The whole point of this topic is we don’t want to play the affix in its current ...
This tbh
slim dove
i swear people think every affix is ass and just wants dungeons with % hp/dmg increases
oak echo
even at its currently health it COULD be ok but they still need to make them spawn less frequently. right now you get stuck killing 1, then immediately another spawns
uneven mason
i swear people think every affix is ass and just wants dungeons with % hp/dmg in...
This is literally what the community has been saying since bfa
dusky canopy
Not really that would obviously get stale
old sinew
I like entangle and incorporeal I just don’t like the idea of an affix reducing dungeon timer by a minute or more by forcing random hard swaps
dusky canopy
Affixes can be done right we all enjoy the risk reward affixes
We all hate the annoying ones that slow us down
It’s not difficult to comprehend
oak echo
force them to spawn 1 at a time regardless of pull size and put like a 20 sec cd on it
almost a perfectly fine affix
modern brook
Affixes can be done right we all enjoy the risk reward affixes
Everyone hates thundering
uneven mason
It's affixes that don't do anything besides just being a timesink
modern brook
Ppl just like to complain
slim dove
theyre all basically timesinks.
dusky canopy
We hate thundering because it’s to punishing if you fail
oak echo
and not rewarding enough if you do it well ^
modern brook
It's easier to cope about affixes than admit you can't play wow that well
slim dove
dont miss thundering 4head
oak echo
15 second buff that almost never lines up with actual CDs and that's only if you don't have to clear it do deal with another mechanic
dusky canopy
It happens
modern brook
Keys bricked
That's 25s
modern brook
You miss any mechanic and the keys bricked.
slim dove
what do you want
uneven mason
Prideful was great because it rewarded
modern brook
Yeah idgi
slim dove
you dont get room to make mistakes in 25+ keys
oak echo
prideful was cool until it scaled so high you just skipped it 50% of the time lol
dusky canopy
That’s besides the point we know that
slim dove
dusky canopy
We’re discussing affixes that are generally accepted
slim dove
🙂
dusky canopy
modern brook
Thundering is basically a free 30% damage Amp every minute
And people are hating on it
old sinew
Here’s how affixes should work - you do X to prevent Y. Doing X should be easy enough and Y punishing enough that in optimal play you the player feel like you are rewarded for doing X well in a timely manner
With raging, you press soothe to prevent 50% more damage
median tulip
They need to make more affixes that have a payoff for doing them correctly. This is why removing the seasonal affix was a stupid decision.
old sinew
With storming, you don’t stand in the tornado and you don’t get knocked up
old sinew
The problem with the new explosive, there’s no winning
modern brook
Tyr fort way more toxic
old sinew
Killing the orb is losing and letting it blow up is losing
It’s the koboyashi Maru
You always lose
median tulip
Like... Have explosive give a party wide damage buff if you kill it
uneven mason
No rewards
old sinew
Don’t need a damage buff just have all of the orb damage spill into the mobs you are fighting like arcane mage crystal
uneven mason
Ion doesn't want m+ to be fun because his boss runs high keys
And he hates his boss
dusky canopy
Like... Have explosive give a party wide damage buff if you kill it
This totally I was saying this weeks ago, image explosives in there current state but they give you 1% haste per kill stacking
lusty tiger
killing an explosive should give the killing blow giver a buff that procs little explosions on mobs
dusky canopy
Obviously just an example
old sinew
If you do 800k to orb, 800k is split into nearby enemies
dusky canopy
But that would encourage everyone to hunt them
dusky canopy
If you do 800k to orb, 800k is split into nearby enemies
Decent take too I could dig it
modern brook
It's one of the better ideas I've seen for it
median tulip
Something like that, yes. Exact details are optional, but some sort of payoff. Without a payoff all affixes are healer affixes.
dusky canopy
I think what we gathered from this discussion is we all enjoy challenging affixes that reward or “speed up” the key if done correctly
modern brook
I'm confused how "not being hit by storming" is reward enough for storming but " not losing the game" isn't reward enough for explosive tho
dusky canopy
None of us want no affixes
old sinew
I'm confused how "not being hit by storming" is reward enough for storming but ...
Because explosive costs too much damage. People are legit talking about healing through explosive which means the cost is too large for the benefit
dusky canopy
I'm confused how "not being hit by storming" is reward enough for storming but ...
Kind of a stretch but not getting knocked up by storming gives you more uptime
modern brook
Iunno
median tulip
If the fastest way is to simply ignore the explosive and let the healer heal thru it, then that's what we gonna do
dusky canopy
Exactly
old sinew
If there’s no cost to kill explosives then it’s worth the benefit. If it isn’t a dps loss or dps gain to kill but net neutral then you’ll kill it to avoid damage and not feel bad but also don’t feel like you need to push on explosive week
modern brook
i dont see how thats a problem
thats a literal choice your group can make
you can defensive / healing cd through it to keep damage on the pack
or swap if needed
dusky canopy
Well it makes your average healers experience much worse I would assume
Unless they are hunting big overall hps meters
modern brook
what the fuck else are they going to do
uneven mason
Almost assured it'll be better than grievous
old sinew
i dont see how thats a problem
It’s a no win situation
modern brook
if my druid wanted to be spreading rakes he shoulda played feral 🤷♀️
slim dove
doing 40k dps as healer overall
old sinew
Most affixes have counterplay. There no way to play your way out of a no win situation
modern brook
doing 40k dps as healer overall
true and real
dusky canopy
I agree with that I know healer damage is widely accepted but I’m of the opinion that heals should just heal and support there party it’s kinda the point of their role
modern brook
^
slim dove
sitting there afk waiting to do healing is awful
modern brook
so the affix is literally "there is another damage event"
slim dove
yeah and you can choose to let it go boom or to kill it depending on other dmg events happening 
dusky canopy
Yeah that’s definitely true it would be boring if they had nothing to do but wait for damage to heal
old sinew
sitting there afk waiting to do healing is awful
Cast canceling a big heal over and over is peak gameplay
slim dove
the cast/explode time is 8 seconds?
uneven mason
Reactive healing isn't how things are built right now, if you see a healer playing reactively they're doing it wrong
modern brook
Most affixes have counterplay. There no way to play your way out of a no win sit...
I dont get your definition of loss here i guess. Either you kill the orb, or you heal through it. is the loss that it needs to be addressed either way?
slim dove
i can ramp to heal the entire parties hp bar 3x over in that time
uneven mason
Healing through explosives will be a better timesaver, so I guess it's just a throughput question, someone has to deal with them
old sinew
I dont get your definition of loss here i guess. Either you kill the orb, or you...
Yes. You always suffer. There is no outplay. You always take on a large burden either by having to waste DPS or heal through extra damage. There no soothe, there no RoP, there’s no one button to delete the affix the way every other affix works
modern brook
i completely disagree
slim dove
man had that typed and ready to go lmao
old sinew
Ok what do you disagree with in that chain of logic?
dusky canopy
man had that typed and ready to go lmao
left basalt
If I have Blazebinders as my first trinket, and these all available from Mythic+, I have extra Valor so upgrading one won't be an issue, which should i Proiritize as 2nd trinket if I don't have access to raids?
I've spammed CoS about 100x without a single drop...
modern brook
Affixes should provide another dimension to the dungeon - decision points for your group to play around. Thundering for example does this by giving you free damage every minute - something you can sync or delay cds for / pull around etc. The pillars seasonal from bfa did this by adjusting routes to be more freeform. most of the non-seasonal affixes dont do this. The new design for explosive provides that decision point - you need to address it, but how you do it can be dependant on the party comp, pull, whats going on etc.
compare that to the busy work of sanguine or storming which are just "are you awake" checks to tax your brain processing
or compare that to comp warping things like volcanic which cucks literally only static casters and is completely ignored by the rest of the group bar worm boss in smbg
modern brook
If I have Blazebinders as my first trinket, and these all available from Mythic+...
sims would give you a good baseline for damage, surv is sorta 2ndary wrt trinkets
left basalt
sims would give you a good baseline for damage, surv is sorta 2ndary wrt trinket...
good point, thank you
naive panther
daring marlin
I look forward to them making explosive not LoSable and instawipe the group
daring marlin
PLEASE LOOK FORWARD TO IT
round pendant
my fucking god, prot warrior doesn't give me Horn of Valor (on my ret) because it's a +10 ilvl upgrade for him
I hate the loot system in this game, it's ass
modern brook
old sinew
Affixes should provide another dimension to the dungeon - decision points for yo...
Level 7 Affixes are global "are you awake" checks by default. Entangled is "are you awake enough to move", quaking is "are you awake enough to spread or to not cast", grievous is "are you awake enough to keep your homies above 90% HP". Even incorporeal is like "are you awake enough to shackle this spooky elemental". Why do you possibly think that Explosive deserves to be the one affix where the entire group has to drop what they're doing for 5-8 seconds to deal with some random ass bomb exploding?
modern brook
Level 7 Affixes are global "are you awake" checks by default. Entangled is "are ...
i think the rest of the level 7s are boring and should be changed
old sinew
how do you think storming and the new explosive are in the same league
slim dove
my fucking god, prot warrior doesn't give me Horn of Valor (on my ret) because i...
deserved for playing fotm
round pendant
I was fucking levelling a paladin before the changes
modern brook
deserved for playing fotm
true and real
round pendant
paladin is my old main
round pendant
Yeah fuck off
old sinew
The range of influence should be 1-3 GCDs from the whole party in total every so often. Explosive was too high in number of GCDS required and it is sure as fuck too high now
slim dove
modern brook
I too have been playing paladin since vanilla :^)
round pendant
modern brook
The range of influence should be 1-3 GCDs from the whole party in total every so...
I think you're looking at this in too much a vacuum. With the removal of seasonal affixes, there is no big overarching thing that defines m+ for the season. the affixes as a whole need to be adjusted away from "and then you soothe it" in order for them to be interesting at all
else just get rid of them all and let the scaling dam be the difficulty
and then we can all enjoy the purity of +25 vortex pinnacle 🤮
old sinew
and then we can all enjoy the purity of +25 vortex pinnacle 🤮
I like VP
modern brook
old sinew
Yes.
slim dove
and then we can all enjoy the purity of +25 vortex pinnacle 🤮
s2 is gonna be cranked
dungeon pool is 10/10
modern brook
season 2 looks like such ass lmao
slim dove
ulda is the new nok but you can LOS every pull for HUGE pulls and fun times
old sinew
There's some stupid stuff in there like those fucking executors chain stunning you, or the mobs hasting themselves 120% and then getting a heal off in 0.5 seconds, or those dog-ass vapors reducing your movement speed and haste by 80%, but I think the dungeon is so, so SO pretty and I think it has some cool stuff
modern brook
the only good part of season 2 is that uldamon will take a month with pugs
slim dove
bro just hold w
old sinew
uldaman is ass I hate it. I did bromach on a 20 Tyr and the variance between whether you get 0 casters in a wave of trash or 4 is so fucking cancer
yikes
fix that shit
modern brook
bro just hold w
yo, I know that.
old sinew
trogg boss is giga-ass right now. like last boss they can tune the damage but the design of bromach with the variance is so bad
also I don't like the trash pulls at all although I did it on incorporeal so there's too many kicks/stuns to pull big
I like incorporeal but the difference in number of kicks on some of these dungeons is too much
honestly I kind of wish we had "dungeonal affixes" instead. like what they did with WOTLK affixes. Some dungeons need more kicks, some don't need any more kicks. same with dispels. but that's probably not happening
old sinew
bracken ulda halls and nelth ya
modern brook
so yeah all the DF dungeons are going to be toxic horse shit
modern brook
HoI needs like several passes before m+
liking bracken is wild but i havent played the ptr
nelth is probably fine but theres just so much pulsing damage and also no one will ever be able to do the mammoth boss
its going to be the new ROP 3rd boss
old sinew
it should be noted when I did bracken we had a death knight which makes it way easier to deal with random ranged mobs
I wish the boss 1 trash area had more LoS TBH
there's so many trash packs, there's a ton of freedom in pulling what packs you want for forces, but its hard to gather them up. We could have Gambit vibes but too many X-bow mobs for most group comps to round up properly
daring marlin
Neltharus is gonna be terrible
modern brook
Neltharus is gonna be terrible
im glad someone else is thinking this
the boss design is so left field and like half the dungeon does passive group damage
daring marlin
I feel like it'll be the worst one for sure
round pendant
it's such a boring dungeon too
modern brook
its got the sword tho so we doin it
daring marlin
expect daily nerfs to neltharus is all I'm saying
old sinew
its got the sword tho so we doin it
sword? you mean forgestorm?
modern brook
forgesword yeah
old sinew
forgestorm, the hammer
modern brook
forgesword the hammer yeah
vital fjord
Im planning on making a new tank, is prot warr still meta or Im better off with a pala?
modern brook
prot war is easier to play with worse gear
pala top end is higher
i think is the fastest way to explain that without being horribly wrong
old sinew
Nelth is probably ass but is it worse than Uldaman? I'm not sure. I hate uldaman. I also hate Halls for the most part
daring marlin
prot war is easier to play with worse gear
You think so? I found it pretty forgiving at lower gear level when gearing my pally.
old sinew
Halls looks pretty tho so it gets some points?
modern brook
You think so? I found it pretty forgiving at lower gear level when gearing my p...
i dont play pally cause pally is for dorks
modern brook
shut up
slim dove
pally played well is a god
its disgusting
i did a 20sbg with a 381 prot pal and dudes hp bar did not move
daring marlin
EXACTLY
and if it did he was like
"lol jk dude you didn't see that"
as he wog'd himself to full hp
modern brook
wogwogwogwog
slim dove
during last trash pack (double blueberries) he basically solo healed the mage for me
and dropped spellwarding on me for shits
modern brook
My push groups tank was a pally (cause i play rogue) and he actively made me a worse player
slim dove
like??? what is this class
daring marlin
yep
modern brook
even before their buffs
tropic gorge
Yepper. Paladin is a God class
daring marlin
hyrja storm, lightning guy in nokhud
modern brook
i had to stun like 3 mobs a dungeon
daring marlin
legit trivialize it all
modern brook
he got every kick, wog'd every mistake we did etc
tropic gorge
Always has been. The moment paladin touches the level of a mortal, they are pushed back to God tier
daring marlin
"here's spellwarding for you, sac EVERY TIME for you..."
1min sac is absurd as an external for the group
ember junco
is the interrupt ability still bugged?
quaint yoke
how many ilvls (if any at all) is the primal 2-set worth? (+340 highest secondary stat)
modern brook
oh completely agree
ember junco
cause it was doing hammers off the shield interrupts i heard.
slim dove
i cant stand playing my prot war anymore
uneven mason
"here's spellwarding for you, sac EVERY TIME for you..."
Funny because I had people argue with me about paladins and how they have just waaaay more utility
tropic gorge
Protwar: can cheese a few raid mechanics with spell reflect
Prot pal: can cheese the entire game because God mode
Lol
daring marlin
It makes me laugh when a friend of mine complained about SR
when she's playing prot paladin
like shut up
modern brook
spell reflect is about 80% of the reason i play warrior
tropic gorge
On a side note. Paladin regaining fotm may bode well for protwar. Empty out some rerollers
modern brook
when she's playing prot paladin
i got angry reading that lmao
daring marlin
"spell reflect is so broken"
tropic gorge
when she's playing prot paladin
Tell her to go bubble hearth lmao
daring marlin
like bruh
modern brook
"oh no i cant spell reflect the 8 mechanics blizzard lets me per year i guess I'll just have to have 90 cooldowns and passive spell block instead"
uneven mason
It makes me laugh when a friend of mine complained about SR
Literally have a cheat death on a 45s cool down stfu
tropic gorge
Last pack of tjs imo is just as hard as the serpent strike
daring marlin
not for pally lol
tropic gorge
Nah not for them ofc
I've tried to paladin tank. It was years ago I thought it was boring af. I think I should try again
uneven mason
Paladins got spell warding, da, and enough silences or stop to choke a donkey
tropic gorge
I do like the cptn America shield silence
That must be so nice to pull a caster pack, that can't cast for a few seconds and has to move to the tank
lusty tiger
pls dont get my paladin nerfed i just hit 417 ilvl
modern brook
not even as busted as it was in legion when avenger's shield silenced everything
lmao legion tanks were something else tho in fairness
daring marlin
pls dont get my paladin nerfed i just hit 417 ilvl
me too lol
daring marlin
bumped my io from 2k to 2800 in the past week too
between end of last week and this week
lusty tiger
bumped my io from 2k to 2800 in the past week too
exact same story for me
modern brook
not even as busted as it was in legion when avenger's shield silenced everything
remember the 4 dps +BDK keys
daring marlin
people still failing thundering makes me froth at the mouth
lusty tiger
just bubble instead
lusty tiger
tbh when i play nontank im not the greatest at clearing
modern brook
I hate when people chase me to clear at 12s
daring marlin
remember the 4 dps +BDK keys
consumption? was broken
modern brook
hilarious
daring marlin
here you go party have free leech
tropic gorge
Getting stunned because nobody cleared, then dps crying nobody cleared is a sign of a pro run
daring marlin
I WILL say I miss SR in Nokhud
tropic gorge
I like bringing a dps dk into nok
Makes the last boss add phase a cake walk. Bonus points for grippy arm talent
daring marlin
who needs 'em
tropic gorge
I like having a dk dps in most runs actually. I think they have a lot of good group utility, and a decently played dk can basically just do it's own thing without causing healers problems
daring marlin
just divine toll 
modern brook
AG?
slim dove
ancestorial guidance
modern brook
I was guesing ashamane's guidance but thats a druid thing i think idr
daring marlin
make spear great again
modern brook
spear gaming 😄
daring marlin
spear and divine toll were the best covenant skills IMO and it's not even close
median tulip
make spear great again
Bring Back Banner
daring marlin
like overall
modern brook
banner would be so absurdly busted with current builds
median tulip
Banner was huge fun
modern brook
banner was only fun after it was statistically the best
daring marlin
at least breath looks cool
modern brook
by a wide margin
modern brook
spear was everything we asked for the entirety of our copium era in BFA
daring marlin
💯
modern brook
spear owns
daring marlin
spear owns
owned*
modern brook
i like troar alot tho 😦 ngl
median tulip
Spear was a prime way of killing DPS by blocking the visibility of swirlies
daring marlin
now spear is stinky cuz 1.5m cooldown
modern brook
Spear was a prime way of killing DPS by blocking the visibility of swirlies
fake news
daring marlin
If you're a dps and you can't see stuff under that you need your eyes checked
modern brook
they were gunna eat the swirlies anyways
daring marlin
FAX
modern brook
they're just coping
daring marlin
besides if that were the issue they could change the graphic to a more earthquake look
and a brown tether
modern brook
besides if that were the issue they could change the graphic to a more earthquak...
im expecting/hoping for this across the entirety of classes
daring marlin
would def fit the theme more
modern brook
The SL abilities have very little to do with specs/classes caues they're like...the cov ability
i would like cosmetic changes to all of them to better fit the aesthetics
median tulip
I want them to give Spear a glyph that gives it the look of the chain graphics from Soulrender and Painsmith
uneven mason
The covenant abilities shouldn't have been tied to the covenant itself tbh, would've worked just fine if covenant was all about aesthetic and not power
But that was old blizzard who would rather bandaid borrowed power rather than fixing core classes
modern brook
i honestly think the problem with covs is just that they were stretching to find a new way to implement the artifact weapon they replaced 4 times
when they shoulda just gutted it
uneven mason
Yeah borrowed power in layers is just bad
modern brook
i mean
if we're being real
unless the talent system stays in 11.0
the only difference is that we got everything at the start
which is a good difference
urban portal
yea
borrowed power doesnt matter if its accessible
whats the difference between getting spear from your covenant vs your tree
modern brook
but functionally there is no difference between having talents on an item vs a talent tree
urban portal
theres no garauntees that spear is stasying in 11.0
modern brook
whats the difference between getting spear from your covenant vs your tree
about 2 weeks of torghast
modern brook
theres no garauntees that spear is stasying in 11.0
i think a lot of the cov abilities stayed just so they wouldnt have to dedicate time to coming up with new abilities to fill out the tree, which im fine with.
90% of them im ok with staying indef, assuming they get the cosmetic rework i want
uneven mason
i think a lot of the cov abilities stayed just so they wouldnt have to dedicate ...
You're not wrong too bad they kept the wrong ones
strong forum
I've answered this before, but borrowed power in the sense that you'll end up weaker after it's gone without any kind of other improvements and if the borrowed power is generic and not tied well into your class
That is shit
In itself borrowed power is fine, just don't do legion -> bfa
uneven mason
SL
strong forum
And don't make it like benthic gear/corruption
uneven mason
Oh I got it, yeah prot going from legion to bfa, they yanked out our batteries and didn't replace them with anything
strong forum
For example SL s3/s4 tierset for pwar and paladin were absolutely fine. Because they enhanced the spec
And because outburst was so well made, it got tied into the class
Spear staying was also kinda expected, but they nerfed the shit out of it so it's questionable for pwar
strong forum
But all in all, more often than not borrowed power left specs empty and unfinished after it was taken away or gave you shit loads of dmg from smth that didn't involve you pressing buttons
urban portal
so its a math question
strong forum
Well and thunderous words and uncapped aoe vs... Softcapped aoe and capstones that don't interact well with our kit
Cuz spear +em would be absolutely awesome if you could pair it with roar
daring marlin
Prolly need to remove the % bleed increase on roar and reduce spear cd for it to even be considered
strong forum
To get the +25% crit dmg on our largest CD
modern brook
I think the intent was that Troar was a cd that would synergize with the bleeds intrinsic on the class, and spear would be a burst option
but then they softcapped spear
😬
strong forum
Spear is good for dps specs
strong forum
Cuz of em
slim dove
boomie no frenzy is yikes tho
daring marlin
mostly just fury cuz you stack it with the burst
uneven mason
i think spear vs roar is too mathy
It's not, spear provides control, roar provides asskicking
strong forum
But the fact that spear isn't 40sec CD anymore, and has nerfed duration of EM is why we just don't want it
round pendant
I am losing my sanity
uneven mason
Wat
daring marlin
But the fact that spear isn't 40sec CD anymore, and has nerfed duration of EM is...
fax
slim dove
I am losing my sanity
primalist is free 395 whatr u doing
round pendant
I haven't found a single one.
strong forum
Spear is a fun button but the CD just doesnt compare to roar, also wild strikes
daring marlin
40s spear felt so good, even on arms
round pendant
I have like 80k elemental overflow from killing rares and etc and haven't got a single primalist helm drop
uneven mason
Hated spear, where's my aftershock
daring marlin
🚪
ionic fern
daring marlin
LOL
uneven mason
I have like 80k elemental overflow from killing rares and etc and haven't got a...
Kill on a leather tank, you'll get a full set of plate in minutes
old sinew
What’s AA?
slim dove
its me
strong forum
Auto attack :kappa:
slim dove
strong forum
Ancient aftershock, it's what sonic boom wishes to be
uneven mason
It's called "fuck your cast"
strong forum
From initial talent datamines I thought we'd get AA
old sinew
If ppal can get ducking divine toll then why not
strong forum
But nah, just dogshit shockwave talents
old sinew
Ppal actually getting divine till is insane
urban portal
It's not, spear provides control, roar provides asskicking
that control doesnt matter for DPS 90% of the time
old sinew
Move shockwave up get rid of those shockwave cappers and give us AA no cap
uneven mason
Should've given us a choice node for spear/aa
urban portal
dps players are gonna take what does the most damage
urban portal
From initial talent datamines I thought we'd get AA
yeah roar was supposed to have a Knock node right
that would be cool
uneven mason
that control doesnt matter for DPS 90% of the time
Because spear existed in an era when survival was outpaced by damage so kiting and using it for control was a big deal
strong forum
Just gimme smth that makes the class more fun
Gimme more minigames to play
Outburst isn't enough
I need moar
uneven mason
yeah roar was supposed to have a Knock node right
Who remembers the original siege breaker
strong forum
The ST knockback
violet flume
sick sentinel
** MDI starting in 45 minutes**
toxic pewter
inc prot pals
oak echo
i feel like mdi is still gonna be mostly warrior. high key meta =/= best for MDI but who knows
sick sentinel
inc prot pals
back to F tier boys
uneven mason
i feel like mdi is still gonna be mostly warrior. high key meta =/= best for MDI...
You're probably right
But it's hard to compete with ppal and they're not behind for damage
tropic gorge
Shield charge should do a knock down effect on everything in the block cone
uneven mason
Shield charge should do a knock down effect on everything in the block cone
They would neuter the damage
tropic gorge
Or make everything immune lol
sick sentinel
it feels like, for warrior they took alot of the cool shit and gave it to paladins and dk and then for rogue it feels like that also too with monk and dh
its like, well, i probably should have had all this stuff, but now they do
uneven mason
it feels like, for warrior they took alot of the cool shit and gave it to paladi...
Imagine how druids feel
sick sentinel
well, sure, but i feel like druid is a large hodgepodge of classes and ideas
i feel like druid is literal a hobo rambling about hes super man or jesus
uneven mason
Like bdk and ppal have on average been better overall and then they have that single thing a bear could do as well
tough jolt
Hi All, I can't seem to find any info on the Alchy stones, are they just auto-no-go or?
sick sentinel
i been asking same thing for days but im on 4th non given spark
oak echo
the trinkets? they're fine but there are better options
sick sentinel
so, i mean, i already got all the good options
im still interested to try one of those, or like the fireball deck trinket
tough jolt
For Prot* to clarify. I'm toying with crafting one just to get the instant ilvl boost as I am lvl 69 atm, and have access to easy max one from my main
sick sentinel
150k dmg every 1.5 minutes don't sound too bad to me
at least i know what im gettin
urban portal
that sounds bad
sick sentinel
it was about 150-165k maybe
i forget the exact number, don't forget also there is the thing that makes it so when you get ace (highest) it stops
strong forum
alch stone loses to pretty much any m+ or raid trinket in both aoe or st
its just, there
sick sentinel
so, they probably still resist some of it, but its 150k ish on paper every 90 s
i do agree with what u wrote
i saw it
i was gunna respond
old sinew
well I don't want to whine about trinkets too much when its possible, although unlikely, that Blizzard could swoop in and add some more interesting passive trinkets that drop from M+, circumventing any need to interact with JC trinkets again (even though it's kind of sadge that JC trinkets exist and no one uses them)
daring marlin
Trinkets next season tho
sick sentinel
like, for instance, if you are a JC you probably should be able to add 3 sockets total into almost any slot u want
daring marlin
Fragment gonna be sick
old sinew
Fragment gonna be sick
Fragment seems good but also I'm kind of sus about it because pressing IP lowers its magnitude. losing DPS while dumping rage will feel bad. I guess it just depends if we get enough value for the first few actions while bursting
close to full value from Dragon's roar, shield charge, and so forth is maybe good enough
strong forum
fragment is the "lose str by button"?
old sinew
yes
old sinew
that's what I figured, we have too high APM
strong forum
youd have to actively avoid pressing any button that isnt a pure dmg button
old sinew
better for classes who barely push buttons like warlock or evoker or mage or whatever
old sinew
lower APM = higher DPS
old sinew
yeah
strong forum
dogshit trinket
lethal atlas
It’s already hard enough to not use TC when outburst is ready
strong forum
its good on arcane mage cuz all their buttons are just arcane blast and arcane missiles
they get huge benefit
old sinew
I am slightly scared next patch is raid or die. I watched streamers on the ptr and they're all using the "Whetstone" that drops from the last boss of the raid.
I don't raid so
I may just be playing diablo that patch
Cloak, trinket, other trinket. Lots of op stuff from raid
old sinew
its like whetstone but it has that BSS "scale up to 5 target" text for more damage and its also arcane damage and not physical
toxic gyro
I am slightly scared next patch is raid or die. I watched streamers on the ptr a...
Are you doing 26-28keys?
old sinew
not this shit
I do 25s
let me tell you during SL the keys I did were lower than the keys I could have done if I had raid gear like gavel etc
toxic gyro
You’ll be ok then, also you can get heroic versions of really strong trinkets easy
Gavel was dumb bc it was a weapon on top of being busted
old sinew
big pepehammer / pepega take to say "unless you are literally the best in the world then having a diff of 10% or more is irrelevant" even though a 10% diff is literally an entire key level for free
daring marlin
big pepehammer / pepega take to say "unless you are literally the best in the wo...
agreed lol
slim dove
the cloak is an outlier
old sinew
we aren't talking about current patch gear diff. In S2 was / is (???) as small as S1 raid vs M+ gear its fine. I'm talking about if we slide back into S3/S4 territory I'm out. bricking a key because I don't raid is the dumbest shit and I know beyond a shadow of a doubt at least one key (definitely more) were depleted that I could have timed as my skill level that I didn't time at my skill leve lbecause my gear was not as strong as it could have been simply because Blizzard decided M+ gear should be worse
old sinew
Blizzard will be on thin ice when it comes to raid or die. I'll just go play Diablo 4 and fuck off until season 3 if I can't enjoy the game as an M+ only andy
toxic gyro
I would personally prefer if m+ gear was same ilvl as raid gear, or you could get certain raid gear pieces without raiding( with some currency), but that will never be the case
You want raid gear, you gotta raid
slim dove
not for prot sure
strong forum
yeah its not that huge for your group in m+
slim dove
big for healers
flat jackal
1% overall group damage if everyone has icon I think someone said
strong forum
nothing should ever be as strong as gavel
toxic gyro
Exactly
strong forum
it was the strongest item since fucking shadowmourne/rogue daggers/gurthalakk
daring marlin
What did gavel do?
old sinew
My only point is, Blizzard can do whatever the fuck they want, but if I don't like it then I'm just going to play D4. No ultimatums that's just how its gonna be
strong forum
gavel was a 4min cd which gave you 1 out of 5 procs which all did some form of dmg output
some better for st some better for aoe
1 gave you shitloads of armor + aoe dmg
1 made you deal poison dmg and it would grant the dmg as healing
1 gave you loads of strength + an uncapped aoe frontal
1 did bleed dmg
the uncapped aoe proc could literally quadruple your dps in aoe
old sinew
Member at the start of 9.2 people thought there was no reason to kill Jailer because people didn't yet realize how busted Gavel was?
strong forum
gavel was the only reason to kill em
strong forum
the trinket of his was only good after they buffed it by 25%
old sinew
gavel was the only reason to kill em
true but its reason enough
old sinew
the trinket of his was only good after they buffed it by 25%
didn't they also only buff it s4? or they buffed it and then buffed it again?
strong forum
that is the buff in s4
old sinew
o ok
Oh my god I had a fury warrior homie who farmed gavel all tier and didn't get it until I think 3 weeks until the season ended, and then you got dinars next season so it didn't even really matter
lol
strong forum
gavel was so fucked that a heroic gavel would beat max ilvl weapons by like 800 dps for arms warrior in ST
the class that benefits by far the most from weapon ilvl
old sinew
gavel was so good bears used it even though it didn't have main stat for bear
strong forum
yeah
daring marlin
Powerful items like that are cool but not getting it feels pretty shit.
strong forum
thats not powerful, thats illegal
daring marlin
🤣
old sinew
you don't have gavel and you're a fury warrior? get the fuck out of my key
strong forum
youre a bdk that didnt have gavel? -5k overall, okay maybe not that much, but it was literally dungeon changing
old sinew
youre a bdk that didnt have gavel? -5k overall, okay maybe not that much, but it...
that too, better example since BDK is meta
strong forum
(in a world where tanks did 15-25k dps btw)
old sinew
Just I played with a fury warrior homie and he malded about never getting into keys
daring marlin
Coconut water is foul btw
sick sentinel
looks like echo is going to win
daring marlin
This is wild actually hah
sick sentinel
echo won if they live
sick sentinel
these teams are gunna be sweating by the end of the daay
strong forum
they merely changed the order
hardy snow
nothing is gavel kind of strong in this expac.
Rasza bow was quite like that before nerf
ocean prairie
guys how to merge the annulet damage?
ocean prairie
okok
urban portal
haste being multiplicative is kinda op
old sinew
I only recently learned this truth tbh. Haste is def superior even though conventional logic says it shouldn’t, but it’s because it stacks with other sources of haste multiplicatively rather than additively
dusky canopy
Yeah but like if you’re 4% Vers baseline going up to 9% in AA only, it isn’t keeping you alive
If you were 19% Vers trying to survive unavoidable damage in a 26-27 the 5% might save your life maybe?
Not worth at all really
My guilds hpal always gets a good chuckle out of me when he requests I take the healing increase in AA
urban portal
Yeah but like if you’re 4% Vers baseline going up to 9% in AA only, it isn’t kee...
5% vers is probably the most damage
close if not higher than 5% haste
especially just because we have so much crit currently
strong forum
That multiplicative haste loses to vers
dusky canopy
Haste is king
broken light
u guys gals think %20 haste is too low? should i go ITF?
broken light
i got the logic backwards then lol
dusky canopy
Also, you want as much haste as you can get without dropping ilvl
strong forum
you dont pick ITF to get haste when you have little
you pick ITF once you have very high haste to not run into block downtime issues
broken light
you pick ITF once you have very high haste to not run into block downtime issues
ohh got it
broken light
also while i have u here, what do u all think about going haste/crit instead of haste/vers
strong forum
ITF has massive gaps of SB without mega haste
broken light
less survivability more damage?