protection

[sick sentinel]

quaking and grevious can come back some day,

[mighty valley]

"substantially" could really mean anything at all when the baseline was one-hit kill from anything

[prisma crane]

well they still scale w/ key levels

[dusky canopy]

I think the new explosive change at first glance sounded awful but giving it some more thought

I think it’s better

[mighty valley]

overall way happier to have fewer healthbars on my screen to target regardless

[warm plinth]

Yeah, it could be as simple as it requires a hit from a DPS or two to kill it

[old sinew]

Quaking finally gone is so good. Thank fucking god we aren't going to have to deal with the entire party dying because we had to get under the genie boss during quaking or because halls of infusion boss gripped us all in together when quaking went off etc

[warm plinth]

as opposed to just a moonfire

[mighty valley]

it might just be to make sure that it can't all be dumped on the healer to moonfire

[sick sentinel]

i have a feeling its going to be like a 10 second cast now and have 250k hp on a 15-20 ish

[prisma crane]

and the afflicted affix sounds like a nightmare without addons to track it, and that's bad game design to require an addon to deal with it

[warm plinth]

I mean think of like

BFA explosives

[dusky canopy]

Right maybe it requires 2-3 globals instead of 1

[warm plinth]

That's what I'm envisioning

[sick sentinel]

and they don't come all that often, thats my assumption

[dusky canopy]

Not exactly horrible

And now theres less of them

Could be a net gain

[prisma crane]

explosive also needs to be further tuned on what can spawn them, and maybe they're still doing that

[sick sentinel]

well, afflicted wont be THAT bad

people just take their remove the bad thing talent now

[dusky canopy]

The new ones that are not the root I’ll have to play them

Could be alright

[prisma crane]

like butterfly in Mists should not have all the clones also able to spawn explosives 60 yds from the boss itself

[prisma crane]

you have to see which thing they're afflicted with or be able to target them to heal them

something that w/o friendly nameplates on isnt abundantly clear

[mighty valley]

the default UI is pretty decent at that kind of thing now

[prisma crane]

they're not in your party

its like an NPC in a town

so they have to have a way to make it clear and targetable

[warm plinth]

explosives don't scale with key level currently. They have 1,431 health regardless of key level.

[sick sentinel]

if he's posioned, hes green, if he's diseased, he's brown, if hes cursed, he's purple, if he's any other color, it's a magic dispell

simple

[prisma crane]

they used to, and having health play a role again makes me think they will, but good to know

[prisma crane]

yes, OR you have to heal them

[dusky canopy]

Explosives scaling with key level

[old sinew]

They always have all 3 and you just target it and hit your decurse or depoison or cleanse disease.

[warm plinth]

They have all of the afflictions. It's not one thing. They literally have a curse, poison, disease on them and you press 1 of them to make him go away.

[sick sentinel]

so they spawn in with 3 things on them

[prisma crane]

again, im not saying its something competent players cant handle, not at all, but average players will get fucked if the UI doesnt support it well, so we'll see

[warm plinth]

yes

[sick sentinel]

interesting...

[warm plinth]

And if you don't dispel ONE or heal it to full before time expires, you get afflicted by something (which we don't know)

but it's a very easy counter

[sick sentinel]

ah, doesn't apply to me

[warm plinth]

Even easier if it always has the same name and can be macro targeted

[sick sentinel]

im a warrior, i can't do that shit

[mighty valley]

ok yeah, so UI doesn't matter at all

[dusky canopy]

So basically your healer does a dispel now and then

Not horrible

[warm plinth]

Well, your healer isn't dispelling it in brackenhide

assuming they're your disease dispel

[dusky canopy]

Fair point ye

[prisma crane]

is the expectation healers will use mouseovers? or target them, will they have a nameplate to know to be targetted?

[sick sentinel]

makes mages and druids more valuable cuz they can remove curse

[dusky canopy]

Shaman

[prisma crane]

and the heal option is there, so they have to see it and know what it takes to heal it

[sick sentinel]

is it shaman? druids must be disases then

[warm plinth]

It doesn't make anyone more valuable

Because you only need 1 of them

[sick sentinel]

i know all the healers have a pool of dispells they can all do, and they get like 4/5 of those

[warm plinth]

They don't get 4/5 of them

They get 1 or 2 of them

[sick sentinel]

its not gonna make it to live in a state where a healing class cnt handle it

[dusky canopy]

Priest op

[prisma crane]

also, we dont know spawn rate

[dusky canopy]

Dispel and md

Ez

[prisma crane]

dispells are like what? 8 sec CD

what if other shit already needs to be dispelled?

[sick sentinel]

sounds about right

[prisma crane]

idk, i just dont understand the point of annoying affixes

[sick sentinel]

leaves Hpal in and awkward position again

[old sinew]

why not? explosive used to have more health and required DPS to chip in. Explosives only because a healer job because it was so easy to ping them that the best role to deal with them was healers

[warm plinth]

why?

[dusky canopy]

So basically that week you run paladin priest shaman Druid X

[sick sentinel]

they cant remove curse so now u need a curse remover too

[prisma crane]

at least give a buff or some shit if you do it right

[dusky canopy]

Goodluck everyone else

[warm plinth]

Why do you need a curse remover

[prisma crane]

or reset CD of dispell when done on those

or give 5% mana or SOMETHING

[warm plinth]

You guys are fuckin killing me right now

[old sinew]

ppl are missing you only need to remove 1 debuff not all 3

pepehammer shit atm

[warm plinth]

I've said it like 3 fucking times

[old sinew]

and yet here we are 🙂

[warm plinth]

There's literally no value added or removed from any class or spec because you only need 1 dispel to remove the affix

[sick sentinel]

i mean im barely reading this while aoe pulling and i read it

he has been pretty clear lol

[prisma crane]

i still stand by my thoughts, affixes should all be positive

[sick sentinel]

probably alot easier once we see video of it

[prisma crane]

fuck Ion's dogshit logic of a 4 key shouldnt be easier than a 3 key

for a LONG time a 10 key has been easier than a 9

[warm plinth]

I thought that's what the scaling was for XD

[remote viper]

I'm guessing annulet not worth it for me?

[warm plinth]

You can sim it, but it's probably not a huge upgrade for you

Still probably an upgrade though

[old sinew]

no. affixes exist to create challenge and for players to attempt to reduce their burden to zero, allowing any week to be a push week with perfect levels of play

[prisma crane]

exactly, just tune HP scaling faster than dmg scaling and the key levels will slow ppl down plenty

[remote viper]

sweet, I sent away all my keys to evoker to get my healer's ring maxed asap. now I have some keys and was curious

[prisma crane]

that was great when dungeons themselves were piss easy, we dont need that anymore

[warm plinth]

I don't mind affixes as they are currently but saying that a +4 isn't harder than a +3 affixes or not is just stupid

[prisma crane]

watch any of the top groups, the affixes are dealt with, its the inherent abilities that are the challenge

[warm plinth]

And you can easily counter that by, idk

Making the affixes on every keystone

Instead of just at certain levels

[prisma crane]

plus, even with all positive affixes you will ALWAYS have a push wk

[warm plinth]

Yeah, it'll just be the most positive week instead of the least shitty week

[prisma crane]

but the difference is that: A) the push wk with + ones may be different depending on comp, and B) it'll be which one is the best, not which is the least shit, and that distinction matters

annoying =/= challenging

[stable valve]

I kind of like grievous as a healer

[old sinew]

yup. and the big difference is that it is way harder for blizzard to achieve perfect balance between a bunch of positive affixes that juice at different rates vs negative affixes that Blizzard can aspire to create opportunities for "perfect counterplay" that negate their existence and allow for all weeks to be different but equal in ability to push.

[prisma crane]

there's nothing AT ALL "challenging" about half the affixes, you just deal with them slowing you down

the key scaling can still "slow you down" since it does that already

[prisma crane]

what kind of cooked logic is this?

[old sinew]

its perfect logic

[prisma crane]

perfect balance is impossible anyways

[old sinew]

mathematical precision

Ion calculated logic

[warm plinth]

They can't even achieve perfect balance with bad affixes though so why does that matter

[old sinew]

you're just mad that logic disagrees with what you want

[prisma crane]

and you're saying its impossible for them to balance positive when they dont even have examples yet

it's just "i said so"

[old sinew]

they've gotten progressively closer and closer

[prisma crane]

and apparently that's not a thing with positive affixes because Sentenza has declared it

[old sinew]

I mean, it can't be, realistically.

[prisma crane]

you've thought of every possible positive affix and decided it cant be done?

realistically, of course

[warm plinth]

https://tenor.com/blt93.gif

[old sinew]

yes

[prisma crane]

at this point you're either trolling or just looking for evidence to support your bad take

im not saying positive affixes will solve everything, but in my opinion it's a better solution than we have and i think the game would be better for it

[old sinew]

your opinion is wrong

lol

[prisma crane]

ok you're just a troll now, i've been baited

GGs

there's zero way to show my opinion as right or wrong because we havent had the opportunity to see how it would work

[mighty valley]

designing positive affixes that achieve the goal of affixes is harder

[prisma crane]

and the only arguably 3 (maaaybe 4) seasonal affixes people enjoyed were either a buff (encrypted), a stacking buff (tormented), route freedom (Awakened), and maybe just big damage number padding (reaping)

[mighty valley]

i won't say impossible but it's definitely harder, i'd have to see the suite to believe it;

[mortal mountain]

i just simmed my character and ring + blazebindershoof seems to be really good if youre missing haste

[old sinew]

seasonal affix =/= rotating affixes

[prisma crane]

i've already explained above that goal would be different, because we don't need to add challenge with affixes, newer dungeons do this just fine, the difficulty would come from key levels

the point of positive affixes would be to make running dungeons more fun

[prisma crane]

yes and grass =/= blue, no shit they're not the same, they're still affixes

[old sinew]

they aren't "still affixes" tho

[mighty valley]

the goal is also just a meaningfully different experience from week to week, it is more difficult to hit that target with all-benefit low-complexity affixes

[prisma crane]

as in a non-inherent modifier to the dungeon

[mighty valley]

seasonal affix got a much bigger complexity budget and were static week to week

(almost static)

[prisma crane]

the point was, when you compare them all

the ones that added gameplay options or power were the most popular

full stop

they gave agency, they didn't take it away

[mighty valley]

yes, and the counterpoint is that it's not as simple as "now do that for weekly affixes"

[prisma crane]

it absolutely is

[mighty valley]

i mean, feel free to pitch some, i'll give you honest critique

[old sinew]

it isn't

it isn't

lol

[prisma crane]

i don't know any, the low hanging fruit ones are stuff that gives buffs similar to encrypted because that was simple, but obviously anything based around stats has to have either options or counterparts

in my mind, affixes that allow for talent choices make things the most interesting

[old sinew]

seasonal affixes didn't need to be balanced because they were always on. It didn't matter how strong or weak they are. There's a big difference when one week you have "your critical strikes do 25% more damage as shadowflame" and "you gain 75 speed each second you're moving". However you want to try to make positive affixes work, there's just way more variables to try to balance to make them all even and equal to each other. Whereas with negative affixes, the goal is always "can the player reduce the impact to 0", there's a asymptotic skill ceiling you approach that has a level of self-balancing as long as the tools for counter-play exist

[prisma crane]

i never said that week to week had to be the exact same

and with a buff based affix system, you'd likely see much more comp variation

or talent choice variation

[daring marlin]

doubtful

[old sinew]

I'm saying the only way it is equal is if it was the exact same

[prisma crane]

melee better one week, range, dots vs direct dmg, movement vs standing still, etc

[mighty valley]

just pitch some of your ideas, please. the entire frustration comes from stating game design premises with absolute confidence and then not engaging in the process of game design to see if your premise holds up

[prisma crane]

yes, that's correct, the exact same is equal, and equal is the exact same, you're acting like we already now don't have a push wk

[old sinew]

you mentioned encrypted and tormented. those were absolutely NOT equal. And I'd be impressed if you could make them equal to each other

[mighty valley]

you think "this week melee does more damage" wouldn't send the forums into an absolute freakout immediately?

[prisma crane]

my entire basis of argument is that fun > annoying

[old sinew]

we don't really have push weeks, not like we did in prior expansions where you would literally just no play WoW for 5+ weeks waiting for the right week to push

every single week is a push week

[prisma crane]

i'm not claiming i'm capable of coming up with great positive affix ideas, just like i doubt i could come up with good negative ones

[old sinew]

every single week we have seen new keys timed

there hasn' tbeen a single week this entire season that key pushing stopped

you are so wrong

[prisma crane]

yea, cuz they all equally suck and most regular players have been very vocal about this

i already told you idgaf about the top end players, they'll make ANY option work

[old sinew]

okay well your take is dog-shit if you're willing to say "fuck balance I just want to do 50% more crit damage sometimes" (even though you actually don't, because when you experience that, every other week will feel shitty for you and you'll want that all the time)

you just aren't thinking

you haven't put thought into this

lol

[prisma crane]

first off

[old sinew]

yes

[prisma crane]

i never said fuck balance

[daring marlin]

I'd personally like to see fort/tyrannical done away with and the other affixes be spruced up some. Maybe more variety.

[prisma crane]

i never said my idea would work, i stated it as an opinion you twat

[warm plinth]

opinions not allowed

[prisma crane]

and i already stated that anything that purely affects stats would likely not work unless it has solid counterparts

[mighty valley]

"fun > annoying" is just... not a useful game design thought at all. like, come on, you know this. being stunned is annoying in league of legends, don't think they should remove stuns from league of legends

[prisma crane]

they literally shortened pvp stuns because not playing your class isnt fun

[warm plinth]

PvP and PvE are two different things

[daring marlin]

idk what you're talking about I love being stunned

[prisma crane]

and im not saying that everything should be faceroll

[warm plinth]

You'll notice that stuns are incredibly rare in PvE now

[old sinew]

bad opinions aren't welcome tbh

[prisma crane]

im saying that we can CLEARLY see that by now, dungeon design has gotten to a point where the dungeon itself, sans affixes, needs to be nerfed of mechanics to make it M+ suitable

[warm plinth]

How do you know it's a bad opinion

[daring marlin]

🤔

[warm plinth]

Because it's not yours?

[old sinew]

🧠 <--

[old sinew]

Why not?

[prisma crane]

affixes were to add complexity to non-complex dungeons, it worked in legion, mostly worked in BFA, started to fall apart in SL and got out of hand in DF to the point we've seen shitloads of nerfs and updates throughout the season

players are more vocal than ever about mechanic overlap and overload

we dont need more bullshit to deal with

[old sinew]

what are you talking about

[prisma crane]

casters can barely stand still for 2 seconds without a new stack, spread, area of denial, silence, stun, CC going off

obviously some dungeons are worse than others

[mighty valley]

you're talking in absolutes, though. they just removed the seasonal affix for s2 entirely, so a big chunk just got taken out of complexity

[daring marlin]

How do you not understand what he's trying to say here?

[prisma crane]

he's retarded

Harrow is actively discussing with me (which i appreciate btw)

[old sinew]

what is he talking about saying legion dungeons were "simple"? I don't understand what he's on about. CoS and HoV are literally in the current dungeon pool and I don't think people would say HoV is too simple

[daring marlin]

They are simple.

[old sinew]

we literally can't combine certain packs because not enough stops

[daring marlin]

Especially when you compare them to the DF dungeons.

[warm plinth]

debuff on afflicted is -100% haste

[prisma crane]

let's talk about several NO or RLP or AV or AA pulls and compare the "stops" required to anything in CoS or HoV

[mighty valley]

hurray, context

[warm plinth]

incorporeal has an 8 second cast, CCing it stops it, goes away when the 20 second buff it has is over.

or no

it goes away once the 20 second buff is over

Which is bad

[old sinew]

so hypnosis bat

[warm plinth]

It's also immune to aoe spells

[old sinew]

do we know what type it is? undead?

[warm plinth]

So you can't aoe cc if you wanted to

[old sinew]

oh immune to AE yucky

[warm plinth]

It doesn't say but

The initial post does say it's vulnerable to "all CC"

[old sinew]

I wanted to stack trash on it and shockwave

[warm plinth]

However

[prisma crane]

its also 3 different spirits for afflicted it looks like

[warm plinth]

There is the possibility that you can just like...sheep it?

[dusty estuary]

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/character/us/whisperwind/noblefour

[warm plinth]

Unless they go the emissary of the tides route and it has pvp durations

[dusty estuary]

\

[prisma crane]

or nvm, those are jsut 3 different status lines

[dusty estuary]

i dont know what i should take from my vault this week

[prisma crane]

what's not annoying AT ALL about -100% haste for 10 sec whenever you have a 3Head healer

[mortal mountain]

sim blazebinders if your low on haste with ring its actually really good

[dusty estuary]

idk if i should just take the 421 ilvl and make my haste go down or what

[mortal mountain]

outsims even whetstone together with ring

[wary spire]

what in the fuck. i just did temple 20 for the first time on fort and 3rd boss was a nightmare, how is that even possible on tyrannical

[daring marlin]

ezpz

[prisma crane]

there's 0% chance those new affixes go live with those datamined values

[daring marlin]

rotate your cds

[warm plinth]

Ok so, tl;dr:

Incorporeal: 8 second cast, reduces damage and healing by 50% if it goes off. Goes away after 20 seconds. Can't be hit by AoE attacks.
Afflicted: 10 second cast, dispel it to make it go away. If the cast goes off, it's a 100% haste debuff.
Entangled: Random 50% snare while in combat. You have 8 seconds to move 10 yards away to snap it, otherwise you get stunned for 3 seconds.

[dusty estuary]

im already low on haste with a 415 blazebinder

[mighty valley]

10 yards sounds completely fine, I'm sure there'll be some bad edge cases

[warm plinth]

Yeah I think if I could make a change, I'd make entangled 30% instead of 50

But I think it's fine

Better than I thought it would be

I just think 50% slow is too much for a random effect

[mighty valley]

Afflicted sounds fine... unless it's really frequent...

[mortal mountain]

ah i see you already have it but 36% is definetly not low

[warm plinth]

10 second cast is big for afflicted because it means even if you just dispelled something, it'll be up again to dispel the add

[hardy snow]

looks like prot pala gonna be big on incorporeal and afflicted

[mortal mountain]

if armory is correct

[mighty valley]

Yeah, and a million years for a dps with a dispel to jump in if needed

[dusty estuary]

what can i say im a haste whore

[warm plinth]

I'm curious if Incorporeal is like tides though where the CCs were PvP durations

Or if you can just sheep it or trap it and ignore it

[dusty estuary]

in game it says 30% haste

is that an armory bug?

[warm plinth]

Armory doesn't like things like Into the Fray

[mighty valley]

Yeah, since it needs to be main-targeted, having to CC it a second time sounds a bit much

[warm plinth]

It shows weird shit as a result

[dusty estuary]

so idk if im good at 30% haste and take the 421 ilvl

or what\

[warm plinth]

what is the question here

I missed the context

[dusty estuary]

what i should take in my vault this week

[hardy snow]

socket

[mighty valley]

take 421 item level surely

[dusty estuary]

i was thinking ilvl but then my haste will drop

[mighty valley]

that's fine

6 ilvls is worth it

[warm plinth]

It doesn't matter if your haste drops. Str is hugely more valuable than haste.

[slim dove]

this mog is disgusting

what the fuck

[dusty estuary]

LOL

[warm plinth]

I'd hate for you to see mine

[slim dove]

dont please

wow is dress up simulator #1

[mortal brook]

WE SHARING EXCELLENT MOGS?

[slim dove]

rock the same armor set for 11 years because i still get asked "omg where do i get that"

[wary spire]

[slim dove]

god

you know transmog has existed for like

a decade

[wary spire]

At least its original

[slim dove]

right?

[dusty estuary]

lets see your mog

[slim dove]

i posted it u tit

mop challenge mode

made $200 a day selling runs for months on end

[dusty estuary]

that mog looks like u play with flowers all day instead of slaying monsters

like a true warrior

[slim dove]

[dusty estuary]

https://tenor.com/view/pepe-smiling-green-frog-clap-clapping-gif-15400349

[warm plinth]

I'm colorblind so generally I just mog full sets but I haven't gotten around to it

[modern brook]

Not having armor tint is actually toxic tbh

So many mogs would be so cool if I could use the same fucking shade of grey

[mighty valley]

but then they'd have to come up with different rewards for their 6384763 game modes and difficulties

[warm plinth]

Doesn't Diablo III have something like that where you can "dye" armor

[sick sentinel]

cloaks from tbc withz combined 17 square pixels as its texture file aint helpin anyone want to fafm tbc stuff

some of that old stuff could use ai texture upscaler

[frosty holly]

Indeed

[sick sentinel]

some of it loks great, others really show wow 2004s age

[warm plinth]

I hate cloaks in general but I will say the new trading post cloaks have looked really good

[wary spire]

Yeah because finally after 15 years we have a plain black one

[frosty holly]

Cloak is the one thing I've always hid. From the moment we ever got that option

[sick sentinel]

never

helm and cloak on

[warm plinth]

I just don't like them because they don't look right

I'll use a helm depending on what it is

But cloaks are like...stiff boards that stick out weirdly

[sick sentinel]

helmet is one of main reasons transmog doesny suck

[warm plinth]

My druid uses the mage tower mog and I love the helm from that

[frosty holly]

Helmets i have on. Depending on the head ofc. Cloak never. Unless it's one of those back attachments that aren't really a cloak

[warm plinth]

Yeah I use the renowned explorer set on my hunter that has the backpack

[dapper vapor]

God that sets so good

Really hope it ends up in the trading post or something eventually

[frosty holly]

Trading post is so nice. Takes so little time to max the bar then you get cool stuff. Looking forward to next month

[warm plinth]

I think they already hinted that the old RAF stuff might end up there so you might be in luck!

Would be cool if they'd bring back the OG RAF mounts too since I lost most of mine to an account transfer 😦

Miss my zhevra and nightwing

Only managed to regain the rocket before they revamped it

[untold skiff]

Could use some help with vault, I know in most cases its ilvl over stats for main weapons but does that apply to this case, like which one

[warm plinth]

yes it always applies

there's nothing special about the crafted weapon

[untold skiff]

gotcha, was genuinely not sure in this case, im approaching 418ilvl and my haste feels lower at 28% and was worried about losing another percent for the higher ilvl weapon

[dapper vapor]

If you're not fully gemmed up still worth the sim against the slot I'd imagine

[untold skiff]

yeah I was looking at that as well, the weapon simed for 0.6% or about 200dps more

so figured id take a look at gems instead

[night galleon]

why are blood stone and twilight stone bis?

[warm plinth]

Because blood stone, despite doing damage, is considered a heal. So with prophetic, it procs the other damaging stone in your ring, and then that stone procs desirous

[night galleon]

so if blood procs storm also procs?

[warm plinth]

yes, and vice versa

[night galleon]

oh cool

[dapper vapor]

It's a cool combo but kinda lame that it's straight up the right combo for everyone

The ring had a lot of promise with all the stones but you only ever see 4, it may as well just be a legendary ring you get for hitting level 70

[warm plinth]

You're not wrong, but it provided a couple hours of entertainment so I'm cool with it

[merry trout]

hey, healers should be primarily getting the orbs right?

[grizzled kite]

I generally just ask if theyre cool with it before the dungeon starts

nothing is set in stone, communication is key

[calm obsidian]

healers should get the largest portion usually. Tank should help a good chunk too tho imo. And dps if there are a lot. If you just assume the healer is going to get them all in pugs you're going to run into hell

[warm plinth]

Just pretend you're in 10.1 already and start helping so you're used to it by then 🙂

[merry trout]

k

whats gonna change in 10.1?

[warm plinth]

Explosives will have more health and spawn less frequently

[merry trout]

ahh

[warm plinth]

The goal being to make it not just a healer affix, since they won't be able to one-shot it anymore

[dusky canopy]

424 helm boys lets gooo

[rigid rune]

Signet of titanic insight 405 with socket vs Seal of Filial Duty 418 with socket, nothing to proc the seal of duty currently until ican craft belt, which would yall choose?

[warm plinth]

the higher ilevel one ofc

[stark sandal]

Seal gives 112 more secondary stats and 113 more stamina

[rigid rune]

yeah i just lost 2% haste and 3% vers, so wasnt sure if the stat budget made up for it with stam/mastery

[merry trout]

hey is seal of diruna worth it?

got a 408ilvl one vs my 405 signet of titanic

[lone eagle]

Thank god

Rasz down

Took long enough; we had a close pull last week

I had to play super conservative at the end 😢

[peak furnace]

if you use the frostfire belt, the seal is a must

[merry trout]

ah ok, ty

[oak ivy]

How does one tank ads on M Brood

im getting fuckin splattered against the floor

puddle of blood style

[warm plinth]

tf is squeak lol

lol

yeah about half of your outbursts were on TC it looks like

Bonus points if you make it say "Don't blow your load"

[pastel willow]

itz azure vault skip fixed?

[warm plinth]

No?

[oak ivy]

disregard, blocking less than 50% of hits

[warm plinth]

I still love you

[mortal brook]

bis casts per minute increaser

[tall cedar]

guys i can take socket or ring

should i take ring tho

my other ring is diurna

[warm plinth]

Yeah I would take the ring

Get socket next time your vault is shit and slap it on there

[tall cedar]

yeah i will get i think

but idk should i use without socket tho

[warm plinth]

can always sim it, but probably not

[round pendant]

Can Fury loot spec give me 1h weapons from my vault?

[warm plinth]

yes

Fury can get both 1h and 2h

[grizzled kite]

can I turn a 421 chest into a set piece and still retain the ilvl? or does it revert back to like 415?

[round pendant]

So makes sense to open vault as fury since I have a 421 shield, ye?

[warm plinth]

Probably, yeah

[warm plinth]

Conversions retain everything from the original item including tertiaries, sockets, and upgrade paths.

[round pendant]

Well, that's depressing.

[warm plinth]

So if you convert a 421, it stays a 421

What do you ucrrently have?

currently*

[round pendant]

415 socketed CoS ring, 421 eggnog

[warm plinth]

mm, I wouldn't be surprised if that beats a 415 socketed CoS

I'd sim it before discarding it tbh

[round pendant]

Problem is I still need to get around to getting the new ring on this char

which is prob just better than both

but yeah, sims like 1-1.5% less depending on ST/AoE

Hardly played last week so I can't even get a socket

[warm plinth]

Yeah I didn't get shit done last week either

Spammed a bunch of 2s and 3s at the last minute to finish out some alt weeklies

And did a +20 on my main at the last second lol

[round pendant]

guess I'll take the 2 tokens

[hybrid gust]

why every1 want a prot paly now? are they that better?

[pallid quiver]

i didn't even do a +20 last week

they've been better

people just saw the top keys being pushed using it so

[hybrid gust]

warrior dead class

[pallid quiver]

prot war ded class, prop

ye

that exactly

prot pally only viable tank

[ionic fern]

Same.

[short plover]

does anyone know if there is a macro to target an icon? Like target "X"?

[serene yew]

Anyone know why survival hunter is f tier for m+ on subcreation? I know nothing about hunters.

[warm plinth]

Not possible, no

[short plover]

thank you

[merry trout]

hey, primal molten longsword vs strike twice, which one shud i opt for? the longsword will not have embelish but has haste

[warm plinth]

Whichever one is higher item level

Strike Twice at same ilevel

[merry trout]

got it, ty

[atomic onyx]

Are this new gems good for prot warr? what gems should i use for raid, and for m+?

[ionic fern]

Because it's subcreation.

[warm plinth]

[atomic onyx]

tnx

[pallid hare]

anyone know how valuable ilvl is on a shield for def purposes?

[sick sentinel]

idk, trinket or back, have the same back with leech 415

[ionic fern]

Yes, i know.

[pallid hare]

would you mind sharing

[ionic fern]

Horrible trinket.

[sick sentinel]

figured

and im guessing dropping leech is worth

[ionic fern]

Very.

The stats on the shield are directly involved in calculating the block DR.

Or do you want the "give me the numbers and maths and formulas" answer?

[pallid quiver]

They're also the only thing that gives said stat on our character, as well, ignoring things like a specific talent

... if you have time i'd like the maths and formulas at some point

[ionic fern]

For what exactly?

Block?

[pallid hare]

i like numbers 🙂 but im really jsut debating a 241 shield vs a Seal

[pallid quiver]

i'd take anything tbh, i need something to just look at while waiting for friends in Mechwarrior

[pallid hare]

the seal is a fairly significant dmg upgrade even from another 418 ring according to my sims... but a 415-->421 shield is also juicy based on what i hear here

[ionic fern]

https://tanknotes.com/resources/armor-block/

[pallid hare]

❤️

[pallid quiver]

this is why mwahi the best

[ionic fern]

You can grab some generic warrior/block things from there.

If anything is missing or needs clarification, let me know.

Then i'll open up my sweet Warrior.xlsx file.

[warm plinth]

I have the calculations in here somewhere for 418-424 shields

w/ M+ k value

here we go

[ionic fern]

I DONT WANT NUMBERS.

I WANT GRAPHS.

[warm plinth]

I'M SORRY MWAHI

ILY

[ionic fern]

STOP LOVING ME AND MAKE ME A GRAPH.

📈

[pallid hare]

😍 all the pretty data!

[warm plinth]

I will make you a graph if you give me the block value of all ilevels of shields

It's so fuckin tedioius. idk why blizzard is weird about block value data

[ionic fern]

WDYM.
JUST TAKE THE ARMOR STAT.

[ionic fern]

Yeah. Then add BfI+Shield Spec. and you're gucci.

[sick sentinel]

Any good way for us to deal with explosives that im somehow missing? Shield slamming them feels awful

[ionic fern]

Heroic Throw.

[warm plinth]

Those numbers are with Shield Spec btw

But not BfI

[patent gorge]

And hamstring

[ionic fern]

Ugh

[patent gorge]

But yes heroic throw

[ionic fern]

Hamstring.

[warm plinth]

Hamstring? XD

[patent gorge]

I know I k kw

[sick sentinel]

yy but u cant heroic throw them in melee

[warm plinth]

People kill explosives with that?

[patent gorge]

You can lol

[ionic fern]

People kill explosives?

[warm plinth]

I don't, not as a tank

Unless it's gonna go off

Then I reluctantly swap to it

[ionic fern]

I also rarely touch them as a tank.

[sick sentinel]

No you can't use heroic throw in melee what

oh u meant

you can hamstring orbs

okay lol

[warm plinth]

si

[ionic fern]

Just get a druid healer.

[patent gorge]

Healer affix

Gottem

[warm plinth]

Until 10.1

[ionic fern]

Are they changing something again?

[warm plinth]

Explosives getting increased health but less frequent spawn

[pallid quiver]

explosives spawn less, bujt have more hp

[patent gorge]

Yeah explosives have more health spawn less

[ionic fern]

[warm plinth]

We also getting some new affixes

2 are decent, 1 is bad

[patent gorge]

All these other tanks have abilities to help with these other new affixes. It seems

[ionic fern]

Good thing i'm a vivid "1 weekly key" logger.

[patent gorge]

Warrior we just blast I guess

[warm plinth]

Grievous/Quaking/Volcanic are gone

[pallid quiver]

I'm still calling it on entangling

all doodad groups

casual non-affix

[warm plinth]

I want them to remove the snare and make it a 5 second window

to break the vine

[ionic fern]

Now i have to go read up. 😦

[warm plinth]

It's the only new affix that punishes you even if you're doing the affix

[ionic fern]

No idea what you guys are talking about.

[warm plinth]

Ok so, tl;dr:

Incorporeal: 8 second cast, reduces damage and healing by 50% if it goes off. Goes away after 20 seconds. Can't be hit by AoE attacks.
Afflicted: 10 second cast, dispel it to make it go away. If the cast goes off, it's a 100% haste debuff.
Entangled: Random 50% snare while in combat. You have 8 seconds to move 10 yards away to snap it, otherwise you get stunned for 3 seconds.

[pallid quiver]

Entangling's an affix that, from the wording, will just root people at random

[patent gorge]

Thd tweat sums it up pretty hilariously

[warm plinth]

This is the thing I wrote up earlier

[pallid quiver]

ah, they elaborated entagled

[warm plinth]

They didn't, but the effect was datamined

[ionic fern]

What

[pallid quiver]

it'd be funnier if it was just a flat out root

[ionic fern]

That sounds horrendous.

Holy crap.

[warm plinth]

You're intended to CC the Incorporeal; it's vulnerable to all CC

You can't kill it; it takes 99% reduced damage

Afflicted can be dispelled by anything but magic

[patent gorge]

https://twitter.com/Thdlock/status/1640845912829304832?cxt=HHwWgIC91cCqusUtAAAA

Liquid Thdlock (@Thdlock)

Im surpised they made affixes worse
honestly im impressed

Likes

557

Twitter · Mar 28, 2023, 10:38 PM

[warm plinth]

I disagree that they're bad. Entangled is not great in its current state but if it was just breaking the vine I think it'd be fine

[patent gorge]

I think this was before Wowhead did more data mining

[pallid quiver]

I think the first two are neat and better than Quaking

[warm plinth]

Yeah the first two are really good imo, though as I said, I would like Incorporeal to be 10 seconds instead of 20

20 is just too long. It'll be really lame if you have a mob lingering for 15 seconds after a pack dies and you have to stay there and fuck with it

Or they could just make it go away when combat ends or something

[patent gorge]

Would that mean you have 2 casts to stop per incorporeal if for some reason you can’t really CC it?

[warm plinth]

Basically, yes

[patent gorge]

Yeah kinda lame

[warm plinth]

That might even end up being the play if they go Emissary of the Tides on it and make the CCs only have PvP duration

Though if they do that, you can just CC it at the end of the first cast and by the time the CC wears off, it should go away before the next cast finishes. e.g. Kidney Shot at 7 seconds, lasts for 6 seconds, mob will disappear at 7 seconds through next cast

[ionic fern]

Oh boy, can't wait to have another thing to CC/interrupt in m+ where you already struggle with CC's / Interrupts in a pug.

[warm plinth]

Well the "good" part is that you don't die if they fail at it

[ionic fern]

I do.

[pallid quiver]

I'll die inside

[warm plinth]

You just get hit with reduced damage/healing or reduced haste

[ionic fern]

Jeah

[patent gorge]

Muh haste

[ionic fern]

And that's death.

Mate

[patent gorge]

It’s gone

[pallid quiver]

That's worse than standard death,

[ionic fern]

I get tilted to oblivion when i mis-use my Outburst proc.

[pallid quiver]

because you have to keep experiencing it as long as your flesh prison still lingers

[ionic fern]

Imagine what a haste debuff does to me.

[warm plinth]

Just don't use mis-use your outburst proc Mwahi smh

[ionic fern]

I'm trying, okay. 😦

Still learning to get good.

[patent gorge]

Don’t worry my raid friends tell me that when I get a bad vault , they just asked if I have just gotten good to get the loot I want

[ionic fern]

I haven't gotten a upgrade in a while from vault.

😦

I'm just playing my resto shaman now tho.
Warrior is for raid logging and 1 weekly key.

[patent gorge]

I got the mythic boon trinket this week from vault

https://tenor.com/view/tornado-gif-14858809

[tame jasper]

then tell me how you dispell a magic, poison (or the third thing) as a warrior to get rid fo your ghost

[pallid quiver]

that's the neat part

you don't

That's part of how affixes should work

Is that the party works together as a whole to fix it

[patent gorge]

I don’t think it’s just on you. Your group can help you deal with it

[ionic fern]

No thank you.

I don't want to rely on mong pugs.

They can't even walk together with Thundering.

[tame jasper]

As I only can play pugs, I'm even more on my own..

[ionic fern]

Jeah, this just makes pugging a nightmare even more than it is.

Looking for specific classes for keys

Etc.

[pallid quiver]

Unfortunately, as someone else who only pugs, I don't think the game should be balanced around pure pugging I think

Any healer should be able to handle the one, but we'll see how it shakes out

[tame jasper]

what many players dont udnerstand, esp when you look at tyra TJS keys

[pallid quiver]

I like the idea of them more than Quaking just interrupting mechanics

[ionic fern]

Quaking was fun cause i could ignore it completely.

[warm plinth]

It's not "your" ghost

It's a single ghost

[ionic fern]

[warm plinth]

That anyone in the group with a dispel can dispel

A single mob spawns with 3 debuffs on it: a poison, a curse, and a disease. Any of those getting dispelled makes it go away.

And you have 10 seconds to do it

[tame jasper]

so every tank except warriors

[warm plinth]

Obviously if you're not a hybrid class, you can't dispel it

So you just leave it to your group

[tame jasper]

as they can at least remove one of them

[pallid quiver]

i didn't know dks had a dispell

[warm plinth]

DK can't either

[tame jasper]

and are cursed (haha) to have 3 specific classes in my grp

[warm plinth]

No

Only ONE of the debuffs has to be gotten rid of

Not all 3

[patent gorge]

Or you can heal it correct ?

[warm plinth]

Yes, as a last resort you can also heal it to full

Which we don't know how hard that's going to be

[patent gorge]

Oh thank god we have rally to help. Kekw

[warm plinth]

But I assume it's going to take more than a global so dispelling is probably the preferred method.

[patent gorge]

I’m calling it now. Shamans are going to be mythic + machines even more now

And im all for it

[warm plinth]

Both affixes hit everyone in the party too so there's incentive for people to get rid of them

[ashen coral]

Hello, I was watching the website mplus subcreation to see what build people mostly use and I wonderer, why sidearm ( https://www.wowhead.com/spell=384404/sidearm ) is always used whereas it doesn't seem to be a big source of dps (someone in the comments said it was 2.2% of his dps at +19 cavault) ? And why in comparison thunderlord ( https://www.wowhead.com/spell=385840/thunderlord ) is so rarely used ? Demoralizing Shout cd reduction with thunder clap seems really strong for me, most of all wheb it also increases your dps by 25%, isn't it ?

For sidearm I asked because I use since a few time bounding stride ( https://www.wowhead.com/spell=202163/bounding-stride ) and even though it does not provide dps, it's so useful when you have to disengage, avoid a big aoe (like the one against odyn) or just to move faster

So if someone can give me an answer I would be pleased

[warm plinth]

So first, we run Sidearm because it's ~2% of our damage for a single talent point, and we lose nothing to take it.

Second, we don't take Thunderlord because a.) using Thunderlord is less damage than using Battering Ram, and b.) it makes the rotation smoother because Demo Shout lines up with all of our cooldowns except Avatar.

You don't have to lose bounding stride to take sidearm. Kinda curious what your talent build looks like now.

[ionic fern]

Thirdly, don't look at subcreation.

[warm plinth]

I am expecting the cardinal sin though

[ashen coral]

You see this build : https://www.wowhead.com/talent-calc/warrior/protection/DAPAURUVUkRRARpFRRBBNVUVEVERFVYVVQDRBA

I replaced sidearm by bounding stride, and show of force (don't insult me lol) by thunderlord

[pallid quiver]

well

there isn't barbaric training so there's that

[ashen coral]

Oh there is not good info ?

[pallid quiver]

Subcreation is just a list of what people are using

It does not vet for quality

[warm plinth]

You can get rid of Pain & Gain for Bounding Stride if you want @ashen coral

[ashen coral]

Oh ok for thunderlord I understand

[warm plinth]

But other than that, you should use that build

[pallid quiver]

So if someone clears with literally no talents on at all, damn, no talents is better than talents

But yeah, you should use that build as-is, swapping Pain and Gain's point around to whatever you're looking for

Pain and Gain's not the most meaningful defensive increase since it can kick in during times it does minimal benefit, but it is better than other defensive options that exist in the game

[warm plinth]

Yeah I think I calcullated it a while back and it came out to be like 1.5k HPS

Which is hardly a major loss if you don't take it

[ashen coral]

Well unless you are the best war tank I don't think you can clear +25 with a bad build or if you can, there will not be a lot of people who will right ?

[pallid quiver]

you'd

you'd be surprised what people can clear

[warm plinth]

People clear high keys with dumb shit literally all the time

[ashen coral]

Yes it seems to

[tame jasper]

I don't take bounding - almost never in need of it, I take intimidiate shout for another aoe interrupt off the DR.

[ashen coral]

Is sidearm really good ?

[pallid quiver]

Being good at a class is actually a relatively minor aspect of what makes keys clear

[warm plinth]

You can don't have to lose intimidating shout for it either

[pallid quiver]

What's more important is playing the dungeon right and well

[warm plinth]

I SENSE BARBARIC TRAINING

[ionic fern]

AM I INTING??

[warm plinth]

It's not insane but it's free damage

I hope not because that's what I'm running too 😏

[ionic fern]

Oh no.

I'm inting.

If you also think it's a viable build.

[warm plinth]

Ouch

[ionic fern]

[warm plinth]

lol

[pallid quiver]

i use that and i 100% int, so

[ionic fern]

OH

THE JACKET I WANT IS ON SALE.

[warm plinth]

Usually people who think you can't take Bounding Stride, Intimidating Shout, Storm Bolt and Sidearm all at the same time are people who are using either Pain & Gain (which is fine), Barbaric Training (which is not), or Honed Reflexes (which is not)

[ionic fern]

Thank you personalized adds.

Thank you for stalking my internet activity.

[brittle owl]

you mean to say the jacket you want is closer to wholesale price

[warm plinth]

Personalized ads let me find a good website to buy a NES

[tame jasper]

yeah I'm using pain&gain

[remote venture]

I am unsure when to use Intimidating Shouts in an Dungeon, so I don't use it.

[ionic fern]

As a AoE interrupt.

🤔

[brittle owl]

fear breaks quick

can use it as an interrupt ez pz

[warm plinth]

Yeah like, it takes a hiccup to break the fear

So you just use it like you would incap roar or something like that

[ionic fern]

And then one RNG time in a 24TJS it diddn't take a hiccup to break the fear and one of the adds in the courtyard ran into the other group.

[remote venture]

Riiight

[ionic fern]

[warm plinth]

We don't talk about that time

You shouldn't even mention that time in this channel or yogi will be screaming he was right the entire time

[ionic fern]

Naa.

That's not true.

We don't listen to Yogi.

[remote venture]

I just forgot, now I will use it more. Shoch way was my go to but good to have another

[pallid quiver]

Int Shout is good because it's not on Stun DR

so even if everyone and their mother pops their AOE stuns,

You can still aoe stop

Since fear DR's a lot rarer

[ashen coral]

Then I will drop sidearm I think

And I will drop thunderbold for show of force if it's better

[tame jasper]

yep that's the huge point on it

[warm plinth]

That is not the lesson you should have taken from what I said

but you do you

[ashen coral]

Oh 😦

[remote venture]

Thanks! I didn't know that! Good point

[ashen coral]

But pain and gain is a good healing tool no ?

[warm plinth]

I'm just breaking your balls. It's a flex point. Take whatever you want with it.

[pallid quiver]

Not particularly

It's fine

[warm plinth]

If you want to take Pain & Gain, it's not like you're inting

[pallid quiver]

It's not bad, it's not a must pick for pain and gain

[ashen coral]

Lol ok ok x)

Thank you anyway !

And for thunderlord it's definitely not worth it compared to the rest am I right ?

[pallid quiver]

Sidearm is a better talent because the idea of just randomly chucking knives out of your pocket at a bunch of people at random times is a lot funnier than just shrugging off some pain

[ashen coral]

Yes but unfortunately my poorly made computer doesn't allow me to see it with minimum graphics and some lags

[pallid quiver]

Thunderlord desyncs Demo Shout, which can and will mess with CD application/stacking offensively, so it's something you'd pick specifically for getting more defensive use out of demo shout

which isn't really needed

[ashen coral]

Okay I understand

I will do that then thanks for your answers

[undone verge]

Disrupting shout worth it on rasz?

[warm plinth]

Correct

[ionic fern]

🤷
I don't have it.

I know a lot of other people are using it tho.

So just check if your team needs it or not.

[regal hazel]

best part is when it obliterates some random critter walking past

[opaque drum]

Yo guys first week opening 3 421 vault with my warrior , was an alt till last week xD. Anyway got both 418 weap and shield but got 408 totem and 405 whetstone (upgradable to 415) , should i open my vault as protection or arms? for a chance to get 421 good dmg trinket too

[warm plinth]

that's blizzard saying fuck that one squirrel in particular

I'm a prot until 421 shield/weapon person myself

[plain turret]

hmm.. Running the Frostfire Belt... Vault gave me a Seal of Diurna 408 , and a 421 Thunderous downburst ring with avoidance...

What to choose?....

[warm plinth]

thunderous downburst, in a heartbeat

[strong forum]

Sim it, but probably the 421

[warm plinth]

Oh right, I got it confused. But yeah still probably the 421

[strong forum]

Prot, the chance to get 421 whetstone is close to 0, the chance to get 421 weapon/shield is higher

[warm plinth]

I see seal and diurna and my brain goes to shield ring. But then I was like wait wouldn't that be 411

[plain turret]

would ahve loved it to be the shield ring!!!

[strong forum]

The shield ring isn't good unless it's 431

[plain turret]

oh..

[strong forum]

Same with Eragon ring(421 obv) , really

[queen furnace]

is the "Dungeon Slice" sim option on raidbots valid for simming prot warriors (I usually run M+)

[warm plinth]

no

[queen furnace]

okay 😛 follow-up question then, what is the best way to sim then, if I'm mostly running M+ content?

[shell mortar]

I usually do 1 target, 3 targets and 5 targets

And judge from there

[warm plinth]

1 target lust, 5/10 target no lust, usually 3 mins for each

[shell mortar]

Huh why 1 target lust specifically

[strong forum]

cuz thats a boss

[shell mortar]

Because you're not always lusting bosses exclusively even on tyra

[warm plinth]

because you lust bosses

Yeah but I'm not gonna choose gear based on the one trash pack I lust now and then

[queen furnace]

Thanks!

[shell mortar]

Guess it depends on key level eh

[strong forum]

its almost as if hes simming his character

[shell mortar]

But I hadn't given much thought to simming with or without lust

[strong forum]

if you always sim with all buffs active

youre just fooling yourself

[shell mortar]

I don't, no

[strong forum]

same goes for lust

it does impact gearing

[shell mortar]

I do know how to sim, I just generally avoid lusting in sims

As it varies on dungeon and week where I actually lust

[pallid quiver]

I generally default to simming with only buffs I myself bring, only adding other buffs if I'm planning for specific pulls, personally

makes me think about what's going into muh damage

[warm plinth]

Yeah I always sim based on what I can have for myself

Like I don't sim with mark if I'm not on a druid

[strong forum]

would be neat if you could choose if drums or lust

cuz uh, 90% of the time its drums

[warm plinth]

[pallid quiver]

Not gonna lie

would be nice

[warm plinth]

blizz pls give us 25% drums back

[strong forum]

or ykno

this

buff meta is so cringe

[shell mortar]

++++++++

New patch, new ret buff, wooooooooo

[pallid quiver]

I like the idea of it, since it encourages class identity to me in my old ass 1980s CRPG ass mind,

but

[shell mortar]

[pallid quiver]

those games are like 40 years old man

[strong forum]

yes, only RPers like the buff idea

but in practice for anybody that actually benefits from those buffs at all, it sucks

[warm plinth]

man feast is so easy now

Just did 9 toons in one feast

[shell mortar]

It is actually nice having the option to have real comps in M+ based on the buffs. But in reality you just always bring a druid, a lust, now a paladin and fill with X

[pallid quiver]

It'd be more fine if WoW wasn't a continually progressing game, like if it was more of a "play different playstyle with friends, clear game" kinda deal, having things like that is neat

I'm more fine with having buffs that heavily benefit some classes compared to others and all if we're talking like a single player blobber RPG or something as compared to WoW

[strong forum]

thats what it was pre-m+

[pallid quiver]

ye

[strong forum]

just a game where you you didnt really care about meta shit

[pallid quiver]

I originally didn't like M+ specifically because of that when it first came out

[strong forum]

(i still dont but ah well)

[warm plinth]

Yeah I've always played what I found fun, whether it was good or not

[strong forum]

m+ replaced what arena was for most

[pallid quiver]

that and not getting useful legendaries back in legion also embittered me

[warm plinth]

It has aligned a couple times though

[strong forum]

but now that you have a pve mode that isnt just a once per week thing you clear

[pallid quiver]

I've played a Tauren Warrior, focusing on Prot, ever since I started

[strong forum]

its gotten alot more sweaty

and has alot more nuance

[warm plinth]

personally, I wouldn't play the game if Mythic+ didn't exist

[pallid quiver]

I wish they didn't tie gear to it, to be honest

There's a lot of things I haven't done in prior xpacs specifically because it was tied to player power, so i like

just didn't play

[shell mortar]

This. Ain't no way I'm scheduling raids with a full time job and sliding schedule

[pallid quiver]

I'm usually more willing to play and do things that are like, just there

[strong forum]

i play mainly just for dmg meter and for loot

[queen furnace]

same, end game content being just raids wouldn't work for me

[warm plinth]

You know what I still remember to this day Nome

[pallid quiver]

part of me wishes raid loot was locked to lower ilvls, too,

[warm plinth]

Watching you on stream pull half of valley of honor into Rexxar in a vision

[pallid quiver]

So like you hit Mythic because you wanted to just try that harder scaled/tuned content

[strong forum]

yeah that moment was

uh

spicy

but is ok cuz dh broken

[warm plinth]

I was like no way he doesn't proc cheat here procs cheat

I miss visions, at least from a type of content perspective. I thought they were really interesting. Just needed to be implemented a little better (e.g. not so attached to player power and timegated so badly) and have more zones

[pallid quiver]

I thought they were shit because they were part of BFA and I did not like BFA

[strong forum]

as with most things

the idea and concept is good

the execution, not so much

[pallid quiver]

me smol brain

[strong forum]

visions were good when you had hc gear, and were on cloak level 6/7

that was the sweetspot

not too hard, and not as steamroll as they were with cloak 12 and mythic ilvl just pulling entire zones at once, only gated by RP

[warm plinth]

Yeah, got to the point where my normal visions were with carries because it was that easy

Felt like I was grinding boars outside org on the rare occasion that I did them solo

[strong forum]

late s4 i spent 1 evening grinding out like 20 visions back to back, to buy the mount and backpack

[orchid frigate]

oh even tattman plays pala now

[strong forum]

yeah, most pwar mains stopped playing pwar cuz its just so boring

[warm plinth]

yeah I did a lot of shit at the very end. I actually don't even think I went for the backpack though

[cloud umbra]

Made so much gold running 5 mask vision carries

[hardy snow]

by the time Ive got to this point, I've already had enough fun in this mode, and then it was just grind currency for rewards 😄

[warm plinth]

yeah level 12 cloak was 💤

[remote venture]

Was it boring during the whole S4 of Shadowlands? I started to play again in S4

[rigid nacelle]

Hello, i was looking for gems, Storm Infused is one of the best right now and while i am Zandalari Troll i would like to ask that taking crit Loa better than all other Loas currently? or are there any suggestion for Loa because i am using Kimbul and proc rate seems sad

[sick sentinel]

any good guide to recommend for a newbie playing protection for dungeons ? I've played a few dungeons so far and don't die but it feels like I'm doing things a bit wrong like aggro and stuff

[ionic fern]

It won't make a big difference, i would sit with Crit 24/7.

[ionic fern]

Any generic starter guide (IV/WoWHead).
Check the talents.
Check your rotational priority.
Check your CD usage.

Go hit a dummy to get used to the rotation.

[strong forum]

SL s3/s4 pwar was peak fun

[ionic fern]

S3..vanilla?

[strong forum]

?

i prefaced it with sl tho

[ionic fern]

I know, i'm making a joke.

[strong forum]

oh im stupid then

[ionic fern]

Maybe i'm bad at jokes. 😦

Well, i know i am.

😦

[warm plinth]

Mwahi #1 joker of my ❤️

[remote venture]

I really like Fleshcraft when I played in Shadowlands S4

[craggy pilot]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nJ4smvNPS4vt8mzYPaDpV9

is replacing my Diurna ring bad (408 vs 421) 🤔

oh wait its not replacing my Diurna im stupid 🤣 its replacing Melandrus signet 🤔

[hollow bane]

Hey, ifu skip Intro quest for 10.0.7 u cant get Onyx Ring Ever?

[strong forum]

?

[warm plinth]

Intro quest has nothing to do with the ring

[strong forum]

its literally one of the first quests after intro

[hollow bane]

Skipped as weil

Well

[warm plinth]

You can't skip that quest

[hollow bane]

Ok

[warm plinth]

The intro is all you can skip

[hollow bane]

And on isle i skipped one too

[warm plinth]

You do the quest to go help the dudes on the shoreline and gather the 6 supplies

and then you go back and you get the quest to go to the vault

[strong forum]

just do the quests that are given to you

youll get the ring

[hollow bane]

Ok thx

[warm plinth]

It's literally 2 quests to get to the vault, then you go in and get the ring

[hollow bane]

Ok i ll Check thx

[warm plinth]

remember the quest that gives you the ring comes from going into the vault and finding the ring on the ground

[hollow bane]

Yeah cantget in there. Skipped at thaldrazz and them on isle it Said „i know…“ skipped. Thats it

[strong forum]

just do the quests

youll get a quest do go in there

[topaz field]

dont act like my mother whos trying to login into netflix plz

[hollow bane]

Kk

Haha

[sick sentinel]

Do droplets + sha's spawn explosive in TJS

[strong forum]

dunno

[queen furnace]

As I understand ilvl is king, but is a 411 head tier + socket better than 415 with no socket?

[strong forum]

no

[sick sentinel]

no

because you get str and armor from the 4 ilvl gap

this only doesn't count, or doesn't count as much when its rings or very low stat value slots (bracers and cloak are main 2 offenders)eeee

so, its better to have sockets on rings, i think nomer said because no primary or armor, a socket in that slot is worth 13 ilvl?

[deep plume]

Is their a recommendation on crafting a main hand ?

[sick sentinel]

in what regards

do you mean mace vs sword vs axe

[deep plume]

Yes

[sick sentinel]

LITERAL GARBAGE

throw weapon type out the window

[deep plume]

even with a embilsment ?

[sick sentinel]

no, what i mean is the weapon type has NO bearing, besides the crafters skill

who will be making it

[deep plume]

Oooo now I get you

[sick sentinel]

haste + favorite is reccomended stats to put on and we don't typically don' weapon embellishments

[deep plume]

Where do you put the embellis and what ?

[sick sentinel]

there are better embellishment, the fangs addornments embellishment.... = it can never critically strike

and you are limited to 2 of those effect anyways

[warm plinth]

Generally lariat and frostfire belt are the embellishments we use (frostfire because it procs raid rings)

[deep plume]

Still dont have the raid ring sadly

[sick sentinel]

im using armor spikes on shield until i have my 3rd 418

[warm plinth]

You can use armor spikes or fang.

[sick sentinel]

fangs is fine, but its nothing special and not worth writing home about

it will get the job done and slightly increase your dps like the others, sure, but thats it

[torpid fiber]

Every embellishment is about 1%. It really doesn’t matter beside lariat

[sick sentinel]

even then, there is speculation that jewelcrafters got together and decided and promoted a pysop that "lariat is the best" and then it worked

[torpid fiber]

It definitely was pre nerf

[plucky quiver]

wouldnt be lariat more if you fish for vers proc + grieftorch use? as grieftoch scales with vers. (in theory)

[hardy snow]

there is one big factor in terms of sword vs axe vs mace crafted

its transmog, and we all know better transmog = more dps

[sick sentinel]

transmog and type of whet/weight stone u have to apply?

potential gold save if u buy the one that has the on average cheaper sharpening stones

[hardy snow]

stone? naah, howling rune for more haste

[sick sentinel]

TF is a howling rune for more haste

tf is that shit lollol

[wary spire]

What are the odds ill get icon in the weekly chest

[sick sentinel]

imma go look

[craggy pilot]

1/many

[sick sentinel]

its a crafted?????

[hardy snow]

50%

[wary spire]

puzzle box is useless as tank right?

[craggy pilot]

or 50% 😄

either you get it, or you dont

[oblique kayak]

do we know how good the new craftable shield will be?

[hardy snow]

yea, its just like other stones you can use on weapon, there is also buzzing rune for crit

[sick sentinel]

where get

[hardy snow]

you cant predict that, blizz can change it 100 times before release

[hardy snow]

I dont know recipe source (i think its inscription), you can get it on ah as other consumables

[sick sentinel]

yogi must have now

[crimson path]

How worth is Pestilent gem on ST in raids over ST gems - Freezing Ice Stone/Desirous Blood Stone/Prophetic Twilight Stone ?

[sick sentinel]

i typically use these

[craggy pilot]

you can sim it

[sick sentinel]

mace now cuz im using a mace, but

[vivid sonnet]

do we swap the nokhud ring for the gem ring?

[sick sentinel]

yeah, kinda cheap too

[craggy pilot]

depends on ilvl, you can just try and sim it rly

[sick sentinel]

i could do either 2 or 3's of these ones

[torpid fiber]

Use runes

[untold vessel]

damn it is the new ring even worth using

losing too much stats

[sick sentinel]

what if i have a giga haste set as it is

[torpid fiber]

Use buzzing

[sick sentinel]

im already above 5100 haste with my cheese set lol

[craggy pilot]

i simmed it for me, it wasnt worth (408 Diurna + 415 Melandrus)

[sick sentinel]

something like, 47 48 % haste with food buff and full ITF stacks

[untold vessel]

but with freezing and blood stone

[torpid fiber]

Uh oh. Don’t admit to using ITF around here lol

[untold vessel]

overall its 8-9% damage

[torpid fiber]

Or barbaric training

[sick sentinel]

you can use ITF if you block correctly,. i don't, usually...

sometimes close to acceptible, (above 95% blocked)

[craggy pilot]

? 🤔

[craggy pilot]

depends how much dps you do before those stones, for me the sim was showing like 6% dmg

losing secondary stats from a ring is also like 6% dps loss

[lean gale]

Guys I am starting Ras mythic progress tonight. You have any tipps for me, my fellow prot friends

[torpid fiber]

I’ve seen people express some strong opinions on who should and shouldn’t be using ITF based on skill but that was awhile ago to be fair

[pallid quiver]

Less about skill, more about stats

it's the same exact rotation either way

[torpid fiber]

If you get enough stats, you don’t need skill 🧠

[dense hound]

Mfw it says 44% blocked with HR in my logs but i didnt feel squishy at all

Cant read these logs at all lel

[pallid quiver]

For blocked hits?

You check that under the damage taken tab, under the hits column for the "Melee" ability

It'll show the percentage breakdown of how many hits were blocked versus not

[quiet monolith]

I'm really bad so the ring fucking rules compared to my 392 eranog ring

I generally only do like 40k overall and am in 21-22 key range

[strong forum]

Yes

[quiet monolith]

So yea, if you aren't really top tier, it's still got some value

As a poor player it's hard to imagine the stats loss making that much of a difference but I trust in the Sims and tryhards. It's important to know if you aren't at that level though, the best choices can be different

[strong forum]

Yeah, in situations like raw dmg procs vs stats of a magnitude of this level, you really have to take player skill into consideration

[spice tide]

yo guys got a lil questions for like 24-25 Keys, would u rather play 408 Eranog ring or 431 Diurna ring or both together? second ring is 415 COS ring

[uneven mason]

421?

I mean probably splitting hairs

But sim it

[limpid anchor]

408 is not worth it

[strong forum]

in that case defo run the 431 just for the sheer ilvl

[limpid anchor]

As it’s a st ring

[uneven mason]

[spice tide]

kk thx

[sick sentinel]

future psa

this ring heals dragon for ALOT

same with hese clouds, pug destroyers

is whirlwind worth using on prot or is it too much rage and I should just use revenge instead ?

[strong forum]

slam, rend and whirlwind are never pressed or even on your bars

[sick sentinel]

ty

[dense hound]

Ok i have to check that home bc i cant see anything like that on mobile except % mitigated and melee dmg taken overall

[onyx needle]

What are the best primordial gems to use on the new ring. I was looking at the frost one that shields every 20s, and the two that do dmg when your shield absorbs any dmg. But from what I saw on Mythic Eranog, it was a crap choice.

[reef holly]

Is everyone using the freezing ice stone for this week? For ST damage?

[dense hound]

Checked it on the office pc and found it wow. Ty for the advice

[sick sentinel]

tw reward, looks like fire belt is the only way for now. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/aJDdePvUjzI

got 4 fire thingies going on rn

[dense hound]

https://tenor.com/view/hell-burn-gif-25513772

[sick sentinel]

really begging for a fire transmog now

[daring marlin]

Fire mogs are the best

https://tenor.com/view/beric-game-of-thrones-go-t-hbo-sword-flames-gif-11408954

[uneven mason]

If you have mythic rings you're probably better off using the stat rings for reliability

But all in all, the stones in the pins will be bis more or less

[sick sentinel]

gunna attempt to summon nightbane for the shield transmog

[onyx needle]

Yeah, both of my rings are from M+'s, guild has bad luck on drops,, like getting 3 tokens from one boss with only one raid member even able to use the token.

[copper igloo]

new to prot, when do i use shield charge vs regular charge?

[uneven mason]

TFW I still had my nb shield in my bank because I was so proud of killing him the first time (was my first time raid leading in wow)