protection

[stable valve]

unless you didn't play s3 or s4 of SLs

[round pendant]

I like it. LS is a good ability at is but I honestly don't use it enough

[stable valve]

my logic is

[round pendant]

So it'll make me press it more and get more damage because of it? pog.

[warm plinth]

HR meaning heavy repercussions

not Honed Reflexes

[stable valve]

drop ED for unnerving focus (at least in AoE, maybe ST depending on tuning between that and massacre), keep HR, drop TaN for bolster?, pick up barbaric training maybe

[warm plinth]

I feel like you'd gain more doing it my way. TaN is actually a good bit of damage in keys

[stable valve]

cuz that feeds into more avatars which means more juiced TC

[warm plinth]

BT would still be a hard sell. You're still only getting the increased rage for a 15 second window, so you'd still be subject to droughts outside of it

[stable valve]

yeah BT is a very iffy one for me

like that maybe is a VERY hard maybe lol

[hardy fractal]

so the new meta is gonna be trying to maintain last stand in dungeons?

[warm plinth]

I don't know that I'd put it like that, but you'll definitely use it more than you do now

[stable valve]

not necessarily

[cinder nova]

New tier looks very M+ friendly

[stable valve]

because one thing that @warm plinth and I haven't been talking about is how you cast SS less for dps in BIG aoe because of bloodsurge

[cinder nova]

I can already see us speccing bolster and uF

[errant leaf]

I dont really like defensives cds becoming offensive tbh but thats just me

[warm plinth]

I mean our one common use-case for LS in dungeons right now is to help heal the absorb on 3rd boss of TJS

[slim dove]

Last stand was already pretty meh. This gives it a bunch of value.

[warm plinth]

That's really it

[slim dove]

If the 4p does big dam then I'll be big happy

[errant leaf]

Pretty good take

[warm plinth]

True, but, that being said, SS is still a huge part of our damage in keys, despite that

[stable valve]

oh well duh, it's massive

I was talking about the CDR part of last stand

[errant leaf]

I wonder what LS uptime we will be able to get

[balmy canyon]

Most logs I've looked at so far show 20 CPM is the most optimistic cap for casts of SS, if that's the case then at most we're going to get 20 seconds off a 2 min LS CD or 30 seconds off a 3 min CD. I'm really not sure how much the CDR is really going to be worth it

[stable valve]

about how depending on the dungeon it might be a lil less CDR

[errant leaf]

Isnt the cdr doubled during ls ?

[hardy fractal]

this was kinda my thoughts as well, it just doesnt really seem to synergize very well at all with the dungeon playstyle
single target maybe but who really cares about that

[balmy canyon]

ok, so for the first 15 seconds of the CD you get double cdr, which means over two min CD you get 22.5 seconds off vs. 20 seconds without it.

[errant leaf]

Yikes

[hardy fractal]

if they made the cdr on thunderclap or revenge it would be much better

[stable valve]

?

what

[hardy fractal]

instead of shield slam

[sick sentinel]

for reasons unknown to me, i had SW x 2 talent selected in one of my builds, for a 16 greater infusion run, we made timer of course

[swift pilot]

question do you still block and parery while in boon trinket ??

[errant leaf]

Yes

[sick sentinel]

i saw i have sw (1) and im WTf open talents, sure nough, well, shit, cant change now lol

[cinder storm]

On one side it will become omega easy to hold threat at the start of the pack, not that we were having issues, maybe our ret friends will have an easier time

[stable valve]

I could maybe see TC for keys (more so for the BIG AoE dungeons) but that would gimp it hard in ST

and revenge at the current CDR rate would make it actual garbage

[warm plinth]

I mean the CDR doesn't have to be worth it. It'll be worth it because it's tier and it's a free effect. But the increase to SS damage during LS is definitely worth using bolster because that's a flat minute off the CD

[cinder nova]

This isn't new. We used it for DPS for basically all of the latter parts of SL.

And I'm pretty sure earlier parts too since UF was pretty decent.

[hardy fractal]

i guess on the upside prot war is going to have some really nice single target damage

[cinder nova]

Already does.

[hardy fractal]

yeah idk its not what i would have asked for but we will see how it turns out

[cinder nova]

It's gonna increase our rage gen tbh

[fallow nova]

I find this tier set more interesting than prot pally's, now I'm stuck on which one I'll main first in 10.1 again lol

[cinder nova]

We're probably gonna have more rage now than before

Which is gonna be wild.

[balmy canyon]

The damage buff from LS finish also isn't going to line up with either shout or avatar so that's another thing to consider

[cinder nova]

That's kind of irrelevant

We aren't holding coolies.

LS becoming more meta to spec for + UF = more rage = more avatar

[warm plinth]

It's still free damage that you didn't have before 🤔

You don't have to line it up with anything for it to be a damage increase

And in the events that it does line up, that's even better

[hardy fractal]

i wonder if we will get to use into the fray now

[warm plinth]

I do not think we'll run Unnerving Focus though

We'll see

ItF probably since with Bolster and increased stats in 10.1, we'll have a pretty easy time getting SB uptime

[cinder nova]

We already use ITF

what

[warm plinth]

We don't use ItF in keys

[sick sentinel]

you can

[warm plinth]

You shouldn't

[sick sentinel]

nobody is stopping you

[cinder nova]

Yeah, do you not?

[warm plinth]

Most people don't.

Even top prot warriors have finally seen the light and swapped to HR

[toxic pewter]

I don’t itf more risky and not worth it

[cinder nova]

That's because at the highest keys shit doesn't die fast enough

[warm plinth]

Lol what

I mean yeah you can use w/e the hell you want in baby keys

[cinder storm]

Based on my feelycraft opinion, pala is going to be better due to how some dungeons look and how other dungeons have too much poison and dispels

[cinder nova]

Block uptime is rarely going to be a wall you're getting put up against

[warm plinth]

But what's your excuse for top warriors using ItF until very recently then?

[cinder nova]

See my last statement.

[warm plinth]

Nothing changed. They just realized i twas better.

[toxic pewter]

One bad situation with split second of no shield block can be bad time

[warm plinth]

How are you using the same statement for both talents though, that makes no sense

Yeah I've literally seen logs of top warriors dying due to 3 second gaps in SB uptime. Which is why it was dumb that they weren't running HR

[cinder nova]

We're agreeing.

You're agreeing with me.

Rarely =/= never

[warm plinth]

You said "do you not?" about ItF though?

Implying everyone is running ItF

[fallow nova]

That was originally a big part of what angled me towards gettign my pally geared up, to be honest

[cinder storm]

That was my interpretation as well

[cinder nova]

Why would you need more block uptime.

Tell me what value block uptime is

Stuff not dying fast enough before you run out of block using ITF

If so, you need HR

If not, you can go ITF

this isn't revolutionary

[warm plinth]

So again I say, why were top warriors (who WERE running into gaps in SB uptime already before recently) running ItF and are now running HR?

[cinder nova]

Either that or you kite, but that's ass

[toxic pewter]

I just think it’s too risky for the like 6-7% dps increase

[cinder nova]

Because stuff isn't dying fast enough lol

like

bro

what part of this are you missing

[warm plinth]

Did you miss the part where they were already running into gaps or are you just ignoring that to serve your purpose

[hardy fractal]

ok so it dies really fast, now you go into next pack with no shield block

good job

[cinder nova]

If it dies fast why are you burning almost half a minute of block

[hardy fractal]

if you are pulling efficiently

[cinder nova]

People playing riskier than is feasible at the highest key level doesn't suddenly change that they needed more block uptime for stability

It means their agility to change to that accomidate that is low or they're hitting points where uptime gaps are too critical to justify it

[warm plinth]

So again, why did you question the fact that someone was NOT using ItF?

[cinder nova]

The vast majority of players don't need HR

[cinder storm]

ITF is more fun but it's not better than bricking a key due to a weird slap while you kite or jump, plus it requires help from your dps and slows

[cinder nova]

This is yet another behavior of aping top play mindlessly

[mighty valley]

i'd better never be seeing any of you fuckers saying this on the official forums

[cinder storm]

And most of the top pwars are fotm

[warm plinth]

You realize that you're basically saying "In irrelevant content, you can play whatever you want" which is not something we're just going to tell people to do in a class discord

We're going to tell them what they should play with the expectation that they want to improve.

[cinder nova]

You said that, not me.

I'm saying running more damage in a key where you don't need to lose damage on HR is ideal.

Damage times keys if you aren't dying.

[warm plinth]

Sure but that's only in irrelevant content

even in a 20 fortified key the average group is probably seeing 30-40 second pack times

[hardy fractal]

i guess if it works for you and your group pulling timing lines up ITF is better but it just seems a bit harder for most people to pull off

[cinder nova]

Imagine thinking anything below the top .5% irrelevant.

I'm timing 20s and 21s with ITF just fine idk what your issue is if you're flopping on them

[pallid quiver]

but itf is barely a damage increase in aoe and is a loss in M+ bosses due to not ensuring 5 stacks at all times, so it's not even a damage increase most of the time

[cinder nova]

But I doubt you are

[warm plinth]

So you're suggesting that only the top .5% sees packs longer than 30 seconds?

[cinder storm]

Honestly, anything under a 22 is a snoozefest

23s+ is where the fun is at

[warm plinth]

I never said you can't time a 20/21 key with ItF. People were timing 25s with ItF

That doesn't make it the right call

[mighty valley]

many players would benefit from running HR to free up some of their brain in keys where the whole group is likely playing suboptimally

[warm plinth]

Because the risk is high

[cinder nova]

Your spec should reflect the content you're doing. If you're dying from block uptime gaps with ideal play you need HR. If you aren't, you should probably play ITF for damage. This is literally how speccing works.

It's why we change talents for cleave fights vs. ST fights in VOTI

And why you might spec slightly more defensive in prog fights over farm fights.

Like ???

[mighty valley]

i think in reality there are many, many players who believe they are playing optimally but would actually have greater success with the safety buffer of HR

[cinder nova]

I mean, probably. Most people I see just throw both charges instantly.

[mighty valley]

it's also pretty fluid since the distance to next pull ranges from zero to significant

[cinder storm]

I don't disagree with your statement, but the thing is, most players swap to a class if it's meta, as such they are bound to make mistakes, HR just reduces that, sure you can play ITF if you know the ins and out of your class + the dungeon, but that also makes you rely on your party to help you kite or with ccs

[mighty valley]

so how much time you actually have to recover charges with ITF varies

[toxic pewter]

For a long time we have wanted 100% sb uptime and now that we can get it with literally no gaps it’s great and I wouldn’t give it up on push keys

[cinder storm]

So at the end of the day, it's just better to provide a blanket statement on HR being better, which I believe it is

[warm plinth]

Yeah like, I'm not gonna go into a fucking paragraph of nuances on talent choice when someone comes in and asks "ItF or HR?" or something similar.

It makes more sense to just tell them to run HR because A.) it's easier for someone new to the spec, and B.) they'll need it as they improve anyway

[cinder nova]

You don't need to. It's a pretty simply explanation. If you're playing optimally or close to it and dying to getting slapped from the tiny windows with block, you need HR. Otherwise, you can safely play ITF. If you want to play 'safe', then just hardlock HR for keys.

[cinder storm]

ITF is more fun ngl

[cinder nova]

100%.

HR feels like molasses

[warm plinth]

That's a simple explanation for you because you have played the spec for a while. It's not as simple to understand for someone brand new to the spec.

A lot of the people in here don't even press Shield Block; that's how much fundamental knowledge they're missing

[cinder storm]

[cinder nova]

iGnOrE pAiN uPtImE

[cinder storm]

BuT MuH HEAliNg

[warm plinth]

I considered changing my name to "Stop Looking at the HPS Meter" 😂

[cinder nova]

Truth.

Just getting people to break the habit of turtling is so annoying.

[slim dove]

I just stare at the dps meter

[warm plinth]

"Idk why I'm dying, I'm spamming IP"

Logs show 50% blocked hits

🙃

[cinder nova]

I know we hit a point where DPS do a lot more damage than us, but the difference between doing 53K DPS in ST and 25K is like - why would you not do damage.

[slim dove]

And press SB when it falls off

Ez 2900 idk

Oh and I hold W

[warm plinth]

Yeah, the worst is the healers who won't even throw down a consecration or cast a sunfire on each pack

Like why would you not

[slim dove]

Cuz they don't usually need to

They don't fail keys based on them doing 20k dps overall

[warm plinth]

Yeah they don't need to necessarily but there's no reason not to do a near zero effort thing that can help your group, even if it's just a little

[cinder nova]

Then they sometimes get too zealous. I had 21 RLP go under because people died to just unavoidable damage on Melidrussa, but I'm sure glad our Prevoker was doing... [checks notes] 16.3K DPS.

While I'm outhealing them with just my passives and IP.

[warm plinth]

The alternative is that you're just standing there with your thumb up your ass haha

[slim dove]

Depends. Rdruid always "feels" like you could be doing more healing

[warm plinth]

I am relatively new to healing but I heal like 16ish keys on resto druid and I would lose my shit if I just stood there when I didn't have to heal

[slim dove]

Prevoker not so much

[cinder nova]

Any good reason why Blizzard basically stripped Holy priest down and gave Prev all their utility?

[warm plinth]

There were "too many knocks" I think is what they said 😂

[cloud umbra]

resto druid feels terrible to dps on

[warm plinth]

Blizz was like hey you already lack mobility and a kick; let's go ahead and take that knockback out too

[cloud umbra]

nothing like an evoker where you can press 2 buttons and do fat damage

[warm plinth]

idk I like resto druid dps because you can be as passive or as active as you want

[cinder nova]

Prev got two knocks on a 45s each, aoe stun nuke, aoe anti-enrage, 1 minute complete dispel, lust, and a lifegrip

Like damn

[slim dove]

Rdruid is very busy which can be a good or bad thing

[warm plinth]

Passive af just sunfiring and maybe throwing out some moonfires, or aggressive af going cat and throwing out rakes and thrash

[slim dove]

1.5 min on the racials, there's a split node to reduce one of them to 45 seconds.

[warm plinth]

Plus a lot of resto druid's damage is completely passive anyway just by healing

[cloud umbra]

is cat form even the way to go anymore? Noticed a lot of top druids swapped out of that spec

[warm plinth]

I'm pretty sure most at least take rake/thrash/improved swipe to get to thick hide

[slim dove]

Yeah they do

Thick hide is huge.

[cloud umbra]

Ill have to check up on that again

[cinder nova]

Let's not pretend that it's not an obvious pick

It's like saying warrior has no stuns because we gotta spec for bolt and wave

I forgot they also pickpockted Disc too and snipe Pain Supp with rewind.

[warm plinth]

I'm running a kind of unusual build on mine I think right now, at least in the class tree

But I'm not doing super high keys so

[slim dove]

They don't take it/recommend it in any m+ build.

[cinder nova]

Why? It's great for sang and it's 2 extra pseudo-kicks.

[slim dove]

Too much other good shit in the tree.

[cloud umbra]

Whats unusual? Nourish build?

[slim dove]

And rewind isn't pain sup lol your thinking of time dilation

[cinder nova]

Ah yeah, that

[warm plinth]

this is what I'm running rn in class tree

[slim dove]

Prevoker is busted tho, like wotlk DK levels obscene

Amazed they got away with it this entire tier.

[warm plinth]

Nah I think they mostly take HotW in class tree; I don't

[cloud umbra]

im checking logs, top druids aren't running cat form

[slim dove]

"Top" druids can't spend the global going into cat form iirc.

[warm plinth]

So are they just going from rejuv down into imp barkskin and the frenzied regen healing thing?

[cloud umbra]

they still get thick hide which i believe i take too

[warm plinth]

I just did this build so I could have typhoon and incap roar

[cloud umbra]

has both incap and typhoon

this is what i use as well

[warm plinth]

Oh, huh

I wonder what they give up when they need decurse

[cloud umbra]

a stack of lycaras

[warm plinth]

Ah

I actually might swap to that, I like it

[cloud umbra]

its good

[shut wing]

any theory crafting on the new rings yet?

[warm plinth]

I thought they were still doing catweaving so I kept all that shit

[cloud umbra]

I mean i have to fight hard to do 20-25k on details meters in 22s lol

which i feel like i could be doing way better

just struggle

[warm plinth]

But I don't spend as much time in cat as I'd like

[sick sentinel]

ruby life pools is tough man

[warm plinth]

So this works out

ty for the info @cloud umbra

[cloud umbra]

yep np

[sick sentinel]

every time i enter RLP, i get my ass beat

something about dungeons in shape of a ring

[median tulip]

So... About the 10.1 Tier Bonuses

Anyone else get the feeling these are basically "oh yeah... We noticed people aren't running this as much since we took away AMs CDR of LS at the end of BfA, have... some different CDR"

[atomic copper]

I feel its just pushing us into a more rage spending spam build then we currently have

[tidal ocean]

Did anyone else gain mythic rating for AV retroactively today, and then lose it later?

[dense coral]

Yes

[warm plinth]

lol

They didn't make it retroactive in-game I'm guessing?

[tidal ocean]

For me it increased my rating in game, but not on raiderio 😦

[warm plinth]

Oh, weird

[dense coral]

I was like yesss I reached 2.6k rio. And then i was 2593 again 🤣

[warm plinth]

lul

[sick sentinel]

raider io website takes long time to update

every 2-6 hours or so

unless u paying and logged in and u got the app logged into that

thten its instant updates

[dense coral]

Yeah but it showed more points. Never happend b4.

[tidal ocean]

Hmm well see what happens tomorrow eh, either way the new timer is a blessing

[warm plinth]

The website updates quite often, and you can force it to update at any time anyway

[sick sentinel]

if u have the app and ur logged into a free account, u can get the time down to like 15 minutes

by forcing a send on your IO

[dense coral]

Wich app is that?

Desktop or mobile

[sick sentinel]

oh, desktop when i was doing it

this was BFA part way into SL

[oak echo]

This happened to my friend earlier. Logged in to check vaults and got the 2.5k achievement then lost the rating later lol

I think it's just buggy atm with the retroactive update

[sick sentinel]

didnt know or didnt care thta there was /is a raider io phone app

[trim breach]

Using Taunt Macro for mouseover is acting weird.

I can use it just fine on 1-9

But when I try to put it on Shift 1-9

It wont work.

[round pendant]

time for garbage from vault!

[gentle sand]

421 ruby whelp shell or 421 gold steel gloves? I’m running with tier gloves at 421 already

[trim breach]

I got that option as well. I just got tier piece 418

That Ruby hits hard after 6 days of fouced target

[round pendant]

it's meh

[trim breach]

I get hits between 110-150

[gentle sand]

I don’t see it outperforming my whetstone/totem combo so may just take the gloves and see if I can nab 421 legs next clown vault

[broken pendant]

Help

[round pendant]

prob strike twice but sim it

[pallid quiver]

I'd take the Strike Twice just to spite the defense ring

sims be damned for once

[violet flume]

id say ring for sure, were talking +3 ilevel upgrade on weapon vs 13 on ring with a nice proc and the sword proc is like 0.6-1.0% more damage

[round pendant]

He doesn't gain any haste from the ring and mastery is meh

[violet flume]

116 more rating and 130 stam tho

[round pendant]

who cares about stam and shield proc tho?

stam is weakest stat

[lusty tiger]

If you don’t take the 421 strike twice

I hate you

And hope you get banned

[untold scroll]

Gotta agree with that ^^

[warm plinth]

There is likely a default binding that is conflicting with it. Shift-number I believe by default pages your action bars.

Gotta go in to the Blizz keybinds and remove them

@potent anvil @shut summit Hello wonderful friends. I hope you are both doing well and enjoying the game ❤️

[potent anvil]

[broken pendant]

I took strike twice

[untold scroll]

Ok we still frens then!

X your fingers I’ll get mine in 1 hour when I open my vault….

[broken pendant]

Ive x'd

[lusty tiger]

[crimson furnace]

pls pls

pls

just saw the post

https://tenor.com/view/please-please-i-have-no-time-for-any-gossip-i-dont-have-time-for-an-gossip-now-kid-man-angry-gif-17038791

[ionic fern]

That seems..weirdly lackluster.

At least the SS damage part is good.

[warm plinth]

we bolster gamers now Mwahi

also ily

[ionic fern]

We won't be.

At least not with the current numbers.

[ionic fern]

Hope you're doing good. 🙂

[warm plinth]

I'm doing alright. I applied for a day shift position 👀

So idk how much I will see you if I get it 😦

[ionic fern]

It's fine, we had a fun run.

Hope you get it.

[split remnant]

395 All Totem vs 421 Horn of Valor (Its for my dk but i am banned from Acherus dk discord) 😄

Wowhead says its BIS from m+. AllTotem is better but you gotta do raids obviously.

I can easily farm 408 AllTotem and idk how that compares to 421 Horn of Valor.

Lol and for warrior both weapon and a shield at the same time

[sick sentinel]

despairge

[warm plinth]

ty

[warm plinth]

I saw that item in the top left and was like how do you have an IQD in your vault

[silent anchor]

Wtf is this tier set bonus s2

[sick sentinel]

opened arms to have highest chance of rare vault loot

[still crater]

Is that how that works? why tho?

[dry spear]

i got 3 vaults and all 3 vaults got those boots on first slot?!

[warm plinth]

It eliminates shields from the options. That's all. But you can also end up getting a 2h weapon so there's that.

[still crater]

Hey guys, question - just tried pushing a 16 ruby life and was taking massive damage at the start of first boss, through all my cds. Healer was bad, so that didn't help, but I was getting chunked for half my health with shield block and snield wall up, and had to blow more just to stay alive. Is there some kind of trick to tyrannical weeks to help cut some of that out? I should note I don't have a lot of vers gear since I main fury.

[still crater]

Gotcha. Sounds like it balances though. Aren't there more 2h than shields anyway?

[wraith niche]

The damage from first boss in rlp mainly comes from the little frostbolt spell she does. Shield block doesn't do anything for that unless you have spell block up. Just make sure you use reflect and spell block correctly and you should be fine if your gear and healer is up to par

[still crater]

Gotcha. I'm currently 405 but swap in pvp rings for more verse. Only got about 16%, is that enough? Or should keep my regular stuff, which would drop me to 8%

[wraith niche]

I'm clearing 19s and trying to push 20s and I have about 12-15% verse

[ionic fern]

I'm doing 23s and i'm on..3% vers.

[wraith niche]

[still crater]

So keep my regular shit, got it. Thanks for the help!

[warm plinth]

Yeah but you're going from 1h/shields to just 2h

[still crater]

ahhhh. Fair enough

[zealous willow]

Any info abt the new ring coming? I was planing to use spark for ring , but new ring might be better

[warm plinth]

I've heard it's not going to be that great tbh

Don't know specifics but after they nerfed all the effects by like 1/3, it's just not looking like it's going to be particularly great

The ring has no secondaries so the effect basically has to make up for the lack of secondaries and then some

[wraith niche]

Is there a consensus on chest enchant? Icy veins and wowhead dont agree on it

[split remnant]

Should still be 425 so BiS either way you look at it.

Well.. most likely if those effets will be so shit getting +400 Random stat is better than it isnt bis 😄

[warm plinth]

400? A 421 ring gives over 1200 secondaries.

The effect by itself would have to do 2.7k DPS on single target to even match my rogue's 418 ring.

Even more than that on aoe

like 7.7k

[jolly lagoon]

how do you guys decide wether to gem vers haste or haste vers? I pretty high on haste atm:

[echo egret]

Should I consider 415 Blazebinder's Hoof and 415 Ruby Whelp Shell over my 402 Decoration of Flame and 408 All-Totem of the Master ?

[trim breach]

Man thank you, that was the issue. It works now

[shell mortar]

Your stats don't really matter tbh on any boss, only crit really matters on 2nd boss since you can parry the bleeds. As for first boss, you can spell reflect the bolts so try to use it on CD. And make sure to have something up for every big circle aoe, since it chunks your health more than a bolt. Otherwise, make sure to have shield block up (she still melees) and get as many ignore pains up after/before your spell reflects as possible

[warm plinth]

sure thing man

[shell mortar]

Capping rage if you're about to spell reflect is good as well on that boss since you don't want to be rage starved after you immune a bolt

[warm plinth]

Doesn't matter but I gem haste/crit.

Your haste doesn't mean you shouldn't use haste gems

The first DR doesn't matter

[shell mortar]

And how good is vers? Well you want it for spell damage but spell reflect and spell block exist so

[still crater]

Awesome advice. I actually just ran it again on a 15 doing that and it worked out well. Think I need more ip usage though. Really bad about blowing revenge out of habit on fortified

[shell mortar]

Yeah you revenge a lot less on tough bosses like that. Better to sit on empty gcds but have rage ready to IP

[still crater]

I'll remember that. thank you

[warm plinth]

You don't need to sit on empty globals to have rage to IP though 🤔 It's not like IP just goes away because it's not being consumed

[shell mortar]

Empty globals as in SS and TC are on cd

And for 1st boss of RLP, there definitely are moments where you don't have IP rolling

Likewise with crawth

I'd rather not revenge gamble a SS reset

[still crater]

Does it stack now? I thought it just replaced the one already up

[warm plinth]

It has literally always stacked

[still crater]

[warm plinth]

It stacks as high as 30% of your max HP

[still crater]

Oh shit

[warm plinth]

But it doesn't matter anyway because you don't care if you overcap IP anyway

[still crater]

I've been playing so wrong

[warm plinth]

But my point to what Dendee was saying is that just because you're spell reflecting doesn't mean you need to sit on rage. Cast a revenge for 20 rage; it's not going to kill you

[amber siren]

More stats is better than the stam, so waking stats is better

[shell mortar]

Depends what key level and what you have after SR 😁

Basically, depends

Generally speaking, yeah, you're not gonna sit on rage. There are moments however where that is the right choice

As an example, you just spell reflected, are capped on IP and you've got either spikes or big aoe circle coming right after

[wraith niche]

Thanks man

[shell mortar]

I'd definitely sit on rage there as any of those mechanics + getting bolted would mean I'm dead if I don't have IP rolling or don't get good SS resets

And I'd rather not gamble on the SS resets

In a weekly 20 it probably won't matter anyways, but going for higher keys need to think ahead of the incoming damage

[silent anchor]

Your definition of sitting on rage may be different for others.....I.e. Sat on 60+. You should never sit on cap. Or have too

[shell mortar]

Yeah, you kind of have to sometimes

It's just objectively a better choice depending on the situation

I'd rather not die 👍

It's the same choice DPS sometimes make to hold CDs for a more important target that needs to die even if it results in less overall DPS

[warm plinth]

I literally never sit on rage. You don't need to. All that changes is what you spend it on. In the scenario mentioned, you would just spend it on IP instead of Revenge if that's what you needed for that situation. But if I'm capped on IP and have spell reflect up, why would I not press revenge since I know I'm already set for the next unreflected frost shard

[silent anchor]

You kinda don't tho

[lime urchin]

Those pesky inbetween cheeky frost shards eh

Has been the downfall of many brave warriors

[warm plinth]

yeah I hate when the boss gets clever and sneaks those in

[silent anchor]

Literally never sit on rage. At 60+ I'll spam ip but I've never felt like when I die, rage cap+ip would saved me. You have an array of defensives to work with

The only class I feel sitting on resources would ne necessary would be BDK since 99% of their survivability is directly attached to it, however most of the time, also unnecessary

[faint mica]

is that me or it looks like s2 set sucks?

[honest vale]

@faint mica Nope, it's lookin' like some hot garbage.

[still crater]

are the effects out or yall just mean skins?

[honest vale]

I don't want to think 30 seconds out on how I can inch in 5% DR for 5 seconds. LOL

https://www.wowhead.com/news/blizzard-revealed-every-tier-set-bonus-in-patch-10-1-331881

[wet nexus]

do u think it's good choice ?

[strong forum]

It's a dps set

[strong forum]

Not a surv set

But you'll play ITF + bolster probably everywhere

So you have that, and then depending on numbers 4pc can be real nice dmg

[honest vale]

Last Stand will be used offensively most definitely.

[strong forum]

As its been used for all of SL

Ye

[wet nexus]

it's better take it or add a gem ?

[jagged pier]

i mean if u use LS on CD now cause its free very much the same thing

[strong forum]

Yes take chest

Fenow

[wet nexus]

i take the item ?

and i use it ?

[strong forum]

Yes

[wet nexus]

Ok

[warm plinth]

@strong forum have you said anything about Unnerving Focus yet? I want to know if I guessed correctly 🤔

[loud musk]

ITF?

[strong forum]

we cant afford Unnerving Focus

[warm plinth]

That's what I thought

I have a brain after all

[strong forum]

literally dont have enough points to pick it

[strong forum]

Into the fray

[tawdry lichen]

Love the new bonus tbh. Doing more dmg while having a lot life for more time overall seems lit

[plain turret]

Hi guys, can I ask for a little help choosing from vault...

I'm having trouble choosing between 2 items.

First I run SET-shoulders ilvl 415 and trinkets Whispering Incarnate Icon ilvl 408 and Decoration of Flame ilvl 415.
I'm eq. ilvl 412

My choices from vault are SET-Shoulders ilvl 421 and Windscar Whetstone 418.

So what do you think? and why? 😄

[ionic isle]

the protec war has some soft cap of haste?

[strong forum]

~7000 haste is when you stop going for more haste

[strong forum]

pick shoulders, and farm whetstone to replace decoration

[plain turret]

daaamn

[plain turret]

good advice! and ty alot! 😄

[atomic inlet]

?

[lone eagle]

The real question is "wave of force" can either be poopoo damage or nutso damage and we have no idea

Guess we have to wait to test it

[atomic inlet]

hey 418 haste vers or 421 cirit mastery? sheild

[lone eagle]

421 probably, but you might be able to catalyze it?

Not sure if you can catalyze shields

but if you can you could convert it to raid stats

[atomic inlet]

hmm

[strong forum]

421

cant catalyse weapons

[lone eagle]

cursed

[heavy temple]

We are starting diurna M prog today. I'll be on the boss, and I've found some logs were pwarrs tanked the boss, but most seem to tank adds. I wanted to watch a video of someone tanking it, but a quick search just showed pwarrs tanking adds. Anyone has a link of such a pov?

[strong forum]

yes

[jagged pier]

what your other tank?

[heavy temple]

pala

[strong forum]

isnt pala way better on boss

[heavy temple]

I could also play dk, since he is quite well geared

[jagged pier]

yer

pala is better boss tank

I think we are worst boss tank

[lone eagle]

Pwar is fine on boss

But Ppal is probably better

[strong forum]

sure, but pally brew bdk and vdh are better

[lone eagle]

I don't think VDH is better on boss?

[strong forum]

a well played vdh prolly is

not sure

[jagged pier]

they have fiery brand for every mechanic

[lone eagle]

Mortal Stoneclaws comes out ~every 20 something seconds or so

[strong forum]

ye and they can rotate brands and fel dev

[lone eagle]

IP works through the heal absorb so it isn't really that bad for pwar

[strong forum]

both are ~40sec cd

[lone eagle]

But yeah, BDK and ppal are both much better at it

Brew is pretty good at it as well although I felt sketchier towards the end of p1 on the Brew than I did on my pwar to be honest

when I was helping a friend's guild prog it on my Brew

but Brew much better at most of the fight

[heavy temple]

I guess, worst case, I play in def stance.

[lone eagle]

I honestly played pretty suboptimally on our kill pull 3-4 weeks ago, but here's my VOD https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1746487558

If you're considering tanking it as pwar for boss

[heavy temple]

tyvm

[lone eagle]

I mainly recommend a hotswap to d-stance for a little bit on the 8th and 9th egg sets

Those triple egg sets were the roughest part on my pwar

Also run Heavy Repercussions

It's hard to get good mileage out of ITF boss tanking her

and you have enough to worry about, HR will make shield block uptime mindless.

I still ranked 9th for boss dam with all of my mistakes/no grieftorch or icon/ and HR so it really doesn't neuter your dam that much

[strong forum]

on diurna you play HR

[heavy temple]

Ok, thanks a lot guys

[lone eagle]

Another side note is no need for Seismic Reverb

Can just go double into improved rage cap

Doesn't really matter since you're ST but reduces the mental overhead even further

[ionic fern]

I'm happy i got to tank the adds on Diurna.

👀

[shell mortar]

Ok but quick question, what's the highest tyran RLP or AA you've done/attempted? Not to undermine your argument but the survivability requirements per key level drastically change

[silent anchor]

Like 22? It doesn't tho. Utilising your defensives is always key. Also I'm sure others have also said the same who do higher keys

[ionic fern]

SR into IP spam into SW the first swirly into SR into IP spam into spellblock etc

RLP first 2 bosses = spam IP.

And utilize CD's properly.

I never sat on rage there as there's pretty much constant damage output which reduces your IP regardless.

[shell mortar]

Yeah, I've sat on rage about 3 times out of all the times I've done RLP, but if I hadn't I probably would've been on the floor

[silent anchor]

You shouldn't have too tho. 100%

[ionic fern]

I've not done that on higher than a 23 on tyrannical but i'd probably just swap to dstance if i'd do higher.

[shell mortar]

You can tank all 22s in battle stance, whereas try doing AA entire tree room on 25 Vs 26 fort

[ionic fern]

🤷

[shell mortar]

The difference is noticeable

Even more so 26 Vs 27

[silent anchor]

Positive even top pwarrs don't sit on rage.

[ionic fern]

I'm also a filthy Decoration user.

[shell mortar]

No, I mean on pretty much any other boss besides 1st RLP and Crawth you'd never sit on rage

[silent anchor]

Like, surely your just wasting rage thats being built through your natural rotation.

By not spending

[shell mortar]

Ofc you're wasting rage, but you're guaranteeing a full IP bar after yours gets popped instantly by a tank buster

Like bolt or crawth bleed

[silent anchor]

Unless you've made a massive jump from 1 level to the next I'm sure you can handle it without wasting rage

[silent anchor]

It sounds counter productive wasting built rage

[shell mortar]

Fucking hell

[silent anchor]

Just to keep a full bar

[shell mortar]

You're not keeping a full IP bar

[heavy temple]

I also wondered, why the debuff is never reset, couldnt you swap add/boss groups to do that?

[shell mortar]

You're literally at 0 IP from.the tank buster

[silent anchor]

Calm down Sally 😅

[silent anchor]

Your wasting rage by keeping a full rage bar. That's what I ment...

[shell mortar]

I understand what you mean

[ionic fern]

So, i think the real question here is, how long are you sitting on full rage.

[silent anchor]

I feel this isn't going anywhere and your adamant that wasting rage is the requirement so gl 😁

[shell mortar]

At most 2 globals

[ionic fern]

On Crawth you have a bleed on you almost constantly.

So you'd just spam IP.

And SR the yell.

[silent anchor]

Unless ur clever with dark iron and an evoker

[shell mortar]

On crawth there's 1 moment you might want to sit on rage after fire phase

Might want to

Because you're overcapping rage and IP

Otherwise never

[silent anchor]

Like, you bring your defensives off cd by using it lol

[shell mortar]

And that's also only if you're dry going out of the fire phase

As you just sent your CDs for dam

[wraith niche]

Regarding this whole IP discussion: Are you all including revenges to keep the tier set buff up or is that not worth the rage in situations like the ones youre talking about?

[shell mortar]

Regarding RLP 1st boss and Crawth, I don't try to keep up tier set. Not worth generally

[ionic fern]

You shouldn't need to be sitting on full rage for 2 globals tho.
Feed that into IP into a TC/SS.

🤔

Just don't Revenge.

[lone eagle]

Are you asking why the tanks don't ever swap?

in p1?

[ionic fern]

Never paid any attention to it.

[heavy temple]

Ye

[ionic fern]

The adds spawn constantly.

[lone eagle]

You can, and it's honestly not the worst idea ~egg set 8 or 9 when the add group swings by

[ionic fern]

Swapping tanks like that would risk adds getting in range of the boss.

You would rather 3 tank it in that case.

[lone eagle]

But its usually easier to just have 1 tank continually tank it

[wraith niche]

Thanks. Ive been trying to keep it up but maybe my healers will be more happy with an IP focus in dangerous situations 😋

[heavy temple]

Ah okay

Thank you

[lone eagle]

The argument for is that you'd reset the boss bonus damage which would make it like 0 threatening to the tank for the last few egg sets

so it is a workaround

[shell mortar]

You're still overcapping rage with IP into SS and TC

[lone eagle]

But its generally not needed and again, adds spawning constantly

usually add group will get enough time to do a drive by 3-4 GCDs on the boss

so that'd be when you swap

[ionic fern]

Ip costs more rage than TC/SS generates.

[timber wasp]

Hey guys, do bracers exist in this game?

[strong forum]

only crafted ones

[shell mortar]

2 globals so assuming SS into TC. 1 global yeah

[timber wasp]

Thought so

[silent anchor]

How. Its off gcd

[ionic fern]

And that's already:
1)Less rage overcapped
2)More value from Indom/AM.

[strong forum]

and outburst!

[ionic fern]

^

[shell mortar]

No I get that. I did say 2 globals /at most/ so that's also assuming TC or SS might not be available

Basically before I get back to work, my point is - I don't mind overcapping up to 40 rage on specific fights rarely if it means guaranteeing my safety

[full wind]

415 whetstone vs 408 all-totem of the master? 2nd trinket is 421 icon

prolly whetstone I guess

nvm, for some reason I always thought icon was a on use trinket

[wraith niche]

i mean, whetstone can be gotten much easier and just upgraded to 415. That said i have no idea which is best

[full wind]

whetstoen for sure prolly, want to have atleast one on use tirnket

[topaz field]

totem and icon are the better trinkets

[full wind]

prolly not with whetstone being 415 tho in comparison

[topaz field]

especially with several icons in your group

[full wind]

but yeah, thats why i asked

421 icon is a no brainer thats why I didnt put it into question :p

[topaz field]

u lose around 5 % mainstat by equipping whetstone

not a bad trinket at all

[round pendant]

Only*

[topaz field]

but still totem and icon will be better especially for your tankiness

[wraith niche]

also iirc whetstone damage is split so its better in ST than m+

[topaz field]

well even without other icon users icon is a big trinket

[round pendant]

It's not better than whetstone

[full wind]

My totem is only he heroic 408 version tho, youd still use that one instead?

[topaz field]

ye

totem is the best tank trinket atm

[round pendant]

I just wish it wasn't impossible to get a mythic one if you don't have a guild

ain't no one pugging kurog

[full wind]

Hm have my doubts..wonder what other people think tho.

[strong forum]

For keys all-totem is bis

Even at 408

[topaz field]

u have to keep in mind u lose about 5 % mainstat

by equipping whetstone

i dont think its worth in any scenario over an icon

[spark cedar]

Nomeratur, would you have whetstone + alltotem or icon + alltotem (even if you are the only one)

[strong forum]

I run whetstone + all-totem

Until multiple group members have icon too

[spark cedar]

which one you replace if someone has icon, all totem?

[topaz field]

no he literally said totem is bis btw

i know guys its rough to lose some pad

but thats life

[ionic fern]

Flame+Whetstone gamer.

[strong forum]

You never replace all-totem

[wraith niche]

Equip trinkets are always a little bit nicer imo. Less to think about lmao

[vocal nimbus]

Whet my stone

[ionic fern]

Idk, i like pressing a trinket and seeing it actually do something.

[wraith niche]

Yeah but youre a good player. Im shit and already think prot war has too many buttons. Ill gladly not add two more if i can

[ionic fern]

It's fine.

I'm also bad.

I just pretend to know things.

[wraith niche]

Rumbling ruby + blazebinders hoof macroed to shout

[ionic fern]

Hell jeah.

https://tenor.com/view/mando-way-mandalorian-star-wars-this-is-the-way-gif-18467372

I usually macro my SB with SS so i always get the damage bonus.

[wraith niche]

https://tenor.com/view/curiousity-but-now-you-have-attention-leonardo-di-caprio-curious-interesting-gif-16323234

[hardy snow]

when I get good vault, its always too good XD

[ionic fern]

ALl-Totem.

Ez.

Then delete it

And send a screenshot to Nom.

[sick sentinel]

how much defensive value does all totem give

[cloud tide]

is this bis with belt?

[hardy snow]

yes, frostfire belt is only reasonable option to proc it

[sick sentinel]

no its terrible take something else100% /s

[cloud tide]

wha

[sick sentinel]

i added a /s

[blazing condor]

our tier set actually kinda interesting

wonder how the last stand CD / uptime will look realistically

[shell mortar]

People talking about all totem when I haven't got one in either HC or mythic all season

[blazing condor]

i got it from the first hc weekly quest chest

[sick sentinel]

ive literally never seen it eve ndrop

[shell mortar]

Go fuck yourself

Kindly

[blazing condor]

only ever killed eranog once in the entire raid

[sick sentinel]

ive been doing 30 man kurog's for like a month

[blazing condor]

just get it

[shell mortar]

I only get eranogg ring 2 weeks ago fromvl vault, killing it every week

And I got 4set on catalyst weekz raiding every week

This character is cursed

[median tulip]

assuming that you lock in Bolster and UnF, you're probably looking at 60-75s CD on Last Stand

proc dependent

[sick sentinel]

whats UnF

[median tulip]

Unnerving Focus

I mean, you'd be a fool not to take that if you've got an enhanced Last Stand CDR

[shell mortar]

Imagine making your defensive a rotational ability with a tier set

[median tulip]

Actually, I might be being optimistic there. 75-90s, more likely

still bloody good

Haste will have a huge effect on that

Rather more importantly, with Last Stand + Bolster + UnF + Tier30 I reckon your Rage income will be high enough to have Permanent Avatar, or near as damnit

[shrewd grove]

Are you considering the fact that the effects are doubled during Last Stand? So, while last stand is up Shield Slam reduces its CD by 1s instead of .5s

[median tulip]

Yeah, But it's still only 1s reduction. Let's assume that you get enough resets (and have enough Haste) to get 5 Shield Slams inside the 18s Last Stand window - that's still only 5s CDR

If you want to get to 30s CDR total, you need 10 Shield Slams inside the Last Stand window, and then 10 more every 18s thereafter, on average. That's asking for you to be Shield Slamming on the majority of GCDs, which is highly unlikely

Let's assume that you Shield Slam on 1/3rd of GCDs; unhasted that means you'd get 4s reduction within the LS window, and another 8s in the next 72s while LS is on CD; at that point (90s after you pressed LS) you have reduced the cooldown by 12s, so there's 18s remaining.

Now that's unhasted; if you have 25% haste the numbers go up to 5s + 10s, to leave 15s remaining at that 90s mark. 50% Haste would mean 12s remaining.

Note that all of that is based on an assumption of a Shield Slam every 3rd global.

You are definitely going to be running ITF with this build.

But yeah on rough maths even my less optimistic projection is still too optimistic.

15-20s additional CDR, depending on your Haste, is my final offer.

[sick sentinel]

Do we still shield slam in AoE? or is it only if running hr

[median tulip]

You Shield Slam whenever you can; it's your biggest Rage Generator

[sick sentinel]

alrighty ty boss man

[red siren]

Hi guys ! What do you think about the new tier set for 10.1 ? It’s boring to play ? We will just have more last stand, we will play around last stand with talent wich increase rage génération and shield block no ?

[ionic fern]

1. Seems boring.
   2)Seems lackluster.

Picking up Bolster..probable.
Picking up Bolster & Unnerving..probably not. We don't have enough points to go around.

They need to up the CDR of LS for it to be solid.

[red siren]

Yes true we dont have enought point … i Hope they change it a little bit

And tier set for MM+ is shit no ?

[uneven mason]

LS on AM again plz

[median tulip]

Last Stand being on Anger Management again would be glorious

[silent anchor]

Tier set for s2 looks terrible

[red siren]

Oh yes LS on AM could be very strong with this tier set

[thorny stone]

what talent would you guys give up to be able to pick bolster? tough as nails/spell block? Impenetrable Wall? ravager?

[ionic fern]

Tough as Nails / Instigate

[median tulip]

implying I specced Instigate in the first place

[ionic fern]

[limpid anchor]

Bolster instead of deveststor

[amber siren]

[limpid anchor]

And now that we don’t have the buff from revenge

We can put slam and ww back on the bars

2 extra buttons!

[median tulip]

https://tenor.com/view/get-out-leave-gtfo-get-out-of-here-gif-6207127

[high basalt]

When crafting a weapon guys does in matter if mace,sword or axe? Ty

[limpid anchor]

It doesn’t

[high basalt]

Ty mate 👍

[limpid anchor]

I kinda wish we would go back to a slower playstyle and have devestate as a filler

The spam just get spammier :(

[reef holly]

I remember the good ole days of tab target + sunder

[limpid anchor]

Bring back war raid debuffs

[blazing condor]

well in that case get rid of devastate cus having to spam devastate whenever you dont got anything else to do is still 60cpm

[limpid anchor]

I guess

Still, bring back devestate :x

[median tulip]

Same

If I could have one thing back from back then it would be TClap reducing enemy attack speed

or maybe Shield Slam having a dispel effect, IDK

[dusky canopy]

https://tenor.com/view/no-way-dude-no-oh-bugs-bunny-bugs-gif-22941840

[tropic gorge]

Devistate was cool when it was introduced, but it's no longer needed. It really only eats a global now sadly

Bringing back the shield slam dispell would be a total bro move tho

But knowing blizz they would black list all raid and some m+ magic buffs, making the dispell useless outside of pvp and maybe world stuff

[dusky canopy]

Devastate as a filler again would be aweful

[strong forum]

we dont have the need for a filler

[dusky canopy]

Think of the times where you press revenge to fish for shield slam resets that’s basically when you’d press it

[strong forum]

we're gcd capped unless you play bad

[tropic gorge]

Yup

[dusky canopy]

Devastator should just be baseline forever

So new 4pc, 1 minute ish last stand with bolster added shield slam damage

Can’t really see what I’d want to change out for bolster

Always itf because of bolster is pog

Oh I see probably swap enduring defenses for bolster

[slim pier]

can u change my name

[orchid gulch]

You can do that yourself, just edit your server profile. It'll only affect this server, too

[quiet monolith]

You think last stand would be down to a minute CD ?

[dusky canopy]

Maybe you would still run HR with bolster if you’re dropping Enduring defense to get bolster

We’ll bolster makes it 2 minutes

[slim pier]

pog

[orchid gulch]

Saw maths earlier that claimed you can drop it to around 90ish seconds CD

[dusky canopy]

Yeah I was about to type that

It’d be more like 90 seconds on average

[orchid gulch]

Still decent, though I'm not a fan of turning a defensive into an offensive due to a tier set

[dusky canopy]

I agree

Think of TJS 3rd boss for example

You kinda have to plan LS for that fight

Well with new tier set you now gimp damage to do that

I guess you’d just plan to LS on the first debuff in that case but still

[uncut helm]

Well that will be out of rotation but the logic still applies.

[orchid gulch]

Well, we get a new set of dungeons to go with it

[dusky canopy]

Right

Going for the logic with the example

[orchid gulch]

Yeah, it's still not great. Will overheal quite a bit with LS then, too

[quiet monolith]

Ls does feel kind of shitty though right now

As a 3 min

So I understand doing something to make it interesting

[dusky canopy]

I mean we sent it on cd for the rage gen in SL because of the conduit

So we’re kinda used to that I guess

[elder garden]

Idk if ls was the right skill for them to choose on tier

[dusky canopy]

Albeit the rage gen wasnt a large concern

It was just kinda there

[quiet monolith]

15 seconds seems really short of a window to get the DPS buff from it, but that also gets extended right ?

Bitter immunity would have been interesting

To look at

[dusky canopy]

It’s also 5 seconds after

[elder garden]

I think it should've been something we use on cd

[orchid gulch]

Think the 10 sec shockwaves on SS afterwards is more interesting

[plush tendon]

I like the SS shockwaves

I just dont like that they tied everything to LS

[elder garden]

Imagine if they did it on avatar yum yum yum

[median tulip]

You are not going to get the cooldown of Last Stand down to anywhere near 1min

[tropic gorge]

Ss Shockwaves looks so cool

[lavish oracle]

How much cdr do we actually end up getting from the set bonus? Not that much, right?

[strong forum]

you can freely change your name

[tropic gorge]

I hope it doesn't suck

[slim pier]

didn't now that until a few mins ago thanks

[strong forum]

for a few weeks now everybody has the power to change names

[dusky canopy]

Yeah we further discussed that

[lavish oracle]

Based on my logs, I do like 20 CPM of shield slam

[dusky canopy]

20 is a pretty solid average yeah

[lavish oracle]

So 10s off the CD per minute plus a little extra from the 5 or so you get during the last stand

[median tulip]

I did some rough math a bit upthread; if you assume 1 in 3 GCDs is a Shield Slam, then you're looking at 15-20s off a Bolster/Last Stand Cooldown timer

[elder garden]

I hope they change it tbh

[strong forum]

you get roughly like 25-30seconds CDR out of it

[plush tendon]

just make it tied to SC

[strong forum]

assuming bolster

[median tulip]

and that's with very high Haste (including ITF)

[plush tendon]

change LS to SC

[strong forum]

all they need to do is buff it to 1sec CDR

and its good

[lavish oracle]

1s and not doubled during LS, maybe

[strong forum]

its not strong enough to make it broken, and not weak enough to be ignored

[dusky canopy]

1 minute last stand would be neet

[elder garden]

Dump the ls

[lavish oracle]

I like bolster tbh, it's a little more engaging to play with than HR

[solemn kelp]

Is it just me, or does Shield Charge sometimes give "invalid target" when it should be valid, and when you retarget the same mob it just works.

[strong forum]

sounds like just you

never had that issue

do you have a macro?

[median tulip]

If it were down to me I'd change the 4pc to "every 10 rage spent reduces the cooldown of Last Stand by 0.5s" or somesuch

[elder garden]

Yuck

[median tulip]

Because LS in AM was the best we ever were

[solemn kelp]

No I'm not using a macro.

[strong forum]

then idk

[solemn kelp]

Standing there spamming SC on a mob, nothing happening, mob is on target, click on nametag, works.

[dusky canopy]

I feel like you’d still run HR with bolster because other than dropping enduring defenses idk what else you’d consider losing to gain bolster

[jagged pier]

U drop tough

[dusky canopy]

Unless SC block duration is enough

[strong forum]

itf+bolster+ed+sc is enough

[dusky canopy]

Well you still take spell block

[median tulip]

I would default to ITF, because the set bonus is going to be really really benefitted by very very high Haste

[strong forum]

issue is just you need to spend 1 more talentpoint just for block uptime

[jagged pier]

Well do u? @dusky canopy Cause i aint dropping battering ram

[dusky canopy]

How do gain bolster then?

[lavish oracle]

There's a lot of dungeons next patch where I don't think there's any value in spell block

[dusky canopy]

I don’t see a optimal talent to drop

[strong forum]

thats the issue

we're tryna solve

[plush tendon]

I have no talents I want to drop

[lavish oracle]

Like almost nothing to spell block in freehold except azerite powder shot

[plush tendon]

make our tier set give us Bolster for free Blizz

thanks ❤️

[orchid gulch]

Well, gotta drop something

[strong forum]

the best talents to drop are tough as nails and instigate (in raid), assuming you dont need block uptime then youll drop enduring defense for raid

[lavish oracle]

Can you get 100% uptime without enduring defense?

[strong forum]

no clue

we cant test on ptr

cuz the set doesnt work

but just with current number: NOT EVEN CLOSE

[median tulip]

Gotta remember that Enduring Defences has good synergy with Bolster because Bolster includes and tripples the ED bonus

[strong forum]

ED is the key factor why you can even get remotely close to full SB coverage

that talent alone

is gigantic for block uptime

[tropic gorge]

I'm curious if the block talent for ls will be useful for next tier set

Prob not. But I'm curious how that's going to work out

[lavish oracle]

You for sure play bolster with the tier

[median tulip]

absolutely; you have a reduced CD on LS, so all the talents that link into that are going to be more-or-less lock-ins

[strong forum]

with current gaming

i run out of block after 1min15seconds

without ED but with ITF and Bolster

[orchid gulch]

If no major changes come along Bolster / ITF will absolutely be baseline, the question is just what to drop for Bolster

[lavish oracle]

So we'd need 45s worth of CDR on bolster from the tier to fill that gap? Or maybe there's a little more to it than that

Which we probably won't get unless they adjust the .5

[plush tendon]

could maybe drop punish?

if you dont need Spellblock

[lavish oracle]

10% SS damage thoooo

[plush tendon]

and keep punish if spellblock not needed

[dusky canopy]

Battering ram** is probably what it will end up being

You lose to much damage everywhere else

[plush tendon]

i know

[strong forum]

dropping punish is hard trolling

[tropic gorge]

Yeah punish is really good

[strong forum]

you only drop that for padding and parsing on aoe

[plush tendon]

yea, I dont wanna drop punish

[orchid gulch]

Also damage reduction on SS is fairly decent for ST encounters

Punish gud

[plush tendon]

just, like, something has to go 😦

[median tulip]

Something like this? https://www.wowhead.com/talent-calc/warrior/protection/DAPAERVVUkRUARphQRBBNVUVUVBUFVYVUQCUQ

[tropic gorge]

The Dr is oh so sexy

[plush tendon]

my battering ram!

[strong forum]

wtf is that

thunderlord

[dusky canopy]

You drop battering ram so that you still get the tough/SB choice node

[strong forum]

and no battering ram

[lavish oracle]

Wonder if the AoE shield slap will apply punish to enemies hit or not

Probably not

[tropic gorge]

Don't take thunder lord. The name is the only cool part about it sadly

[median tulip]

Doubtful

[plush tendon]

if the shockwaves apply punish debuff.... thatll be siq

[jagged pier]

I again i would rather not play bolster than drop battering

[median tulip]

I think you have to drop one of Battering Ram or Ravager

[tropic gorge]

Battering ram is disgusting good

[orchid gulch]

Could technically drop Focused Vigor, no idea if it is worth it though

[strong forum]

thats so much fucking damage youre losing

id rather play HR without bolster

than drop ravager or battering ram

[tropic gorge]

I ran without it for a bit. Realized the mistake and won't do that again

[strong forum]

no

focused vigor is 7% dmg

its our strongest offensive talent

[median tulip]

I don't think Bolster is optional with that tier set bonus

[orchid gulch]

Ok

[pallid quiver]

i still see no battering ram, so cursed

[dusky canopy]

If you need the choice node for spell block that’s the only way I can see you getting it

[median tulip]

I'd drop TaN for Battering Ram

[tropic gorge]

Looks like it was swapped for the ls block talent. Big loss there. Don't underestimate how good battering ram is for us

[plush tendon]

maybe thats choice

battering ram where spellblock not needed

[dusky canopy]

Correct

[median tulip]

UnF tho...

[pallid quiver]

Spell Block ain't needed anywhere, then

[plush tendon]

not even on my bars starting 10.1

[tropic gorge]

I'd drop spell block unless an encounter requires it

[median tulip]

Which is more Rage gen, UnF or Ravager?

[strong forum]

ravager

[dusky canopy]

You will never not run ravager

[tropic gorge]

Raveger is a fun rage battery

[dusky canopy]

What’s the sim for BR vs TaN

I’m mobile so can’t run it quick

[strong forum]

br is nmore

[dusky canopy]

So yeah then you’d only drop BR for SpB if needed

[median tulip]

Battering Ram is legit amazing

[dusky canopy]

I agree

It blasts

[median tulip]

and it makes one of the most satisfying noises

[sick sentinel]

Whats battering ram do, i have no idea about any talent names

[dusky canopy]

More dam

[pallid quiver]

Shield Charge buff, makes you swings faster, too

[plush tendon]

turns Shield Charge into a Battering Ram

[tropic gorge]

I like the charge animation dwarves do. It's so satisfying

[plush tendon]

https://tenor.com/view/timmy-dad-door-ram-gif-20143819

[tropic gorge]

I regularly get 100k shield charge crits

[strong forum]

with ED ITF Bolster i can maintain 100% block uptime on 5 targets rn

but yeah

issue arises when you want to play spellblock

[plush tendon]

time for someone to call Ion and tell him we need a extra talent point

[dusky canopy]

It’s going to come down to what’s the least damage loss to gain SpB

[pallid quiver]

If you ever think you need Spell Block, instead just shout "HEALER ISSUE" and don't play it

[median tulip]

As it stands, I don't think this Set Bonus will shape up to be anything special.

[plush tendon]

[median tulip]

Definitely a downgrade from the Season1 set

[strong forum]

defensively yes

offensively, hell no

[tropic gorge]

I'm pumped for the 4pc, and how it's gonna work

[pallid quiver]

SS go slam

[dusky canopy]

I’m hoping we can play FbV

Switch it up a little

[plush tendon]

though this upcoming tier sets does kind of highlight how locked in our talent points are

[strong forum]

idk how that would change anything

but if BrV is still bugged

likely

[dusky canopy]

You lose current 4pc that’s why it would change

[strong forum]

idk why changing fbv to brv

counts as "switch it up a little"

it has 0 impact on you

[dusky canopy]

It doesn’t really

[strong forum]

or how it plays

[pallid quiver]

They're basically the same thing, too

[dusky canopy]

Ye for sure

[median tulip]

I would like to know how much damage the 4pc AoE effect does

[strong forum]

anywhere between 5 and 150k

is my guess

[pallid quiver]

I still want it to just turn SS into a cone AOE because it'd be funny

[dusky canopy]

5 whole damage

Pog

[strong forum]

thats what im expecting luerce

cuz like

[tropic gorge]

We already aoe hard af

[strong forum]

its 10seconds every 1.5 to 2.5minutes

realistically

we'll get maybe 3 maybe 4 shieldslams in that window

it HAS to slap

to be worth anything

[pallid quiver]

imagine just holding an outburst just on the edge for a bunch of adds to spawn

and then they just disappear

[tropic gorge]

Lol

[dusky canopy]

SS having some aoe is going to be sweet

[strong forum]

if it doesnt do nuke dmg, its a joke

[tropic gorge]

"sorry guys shield slam wave frit"

[dusky canopy]

Holy shit you have a good point

Out burst aoe SS

And to think Pink Prot getting hyped

[pallid quiver]

I still think it'll probably be it's own effect scaling separately, based on how Blizz likes to do things from what I remember, but I really want it to just AOE SS

[median tulip]

This is true; IMO we need a bit of a rework into the layout of the talents. Just for starters I would swap the positions of Bolster and Bloodbourne, drop the links from BrV/FbV & CS to SW and put links from Bloodsurge to Bloodbourne and Instigate to Thunderlord, to give a lot more flex in the tree

[tropic gorge]

Buff thunder lord to be as cool as its name

[elder garden]

Uncap it

[median tulip]

There's a few talents that are underwhelming

Bloodbourne should be 1pt for the current effect of 2

[plush tendon]

I always thought Instigate and Bloodsurge should be a choice node tbh

[median tulip]

One thing I hate is that all of our Execute talents are spread all over the fucking shop

[plush tendon]

but there really should be a bit of reimagining of the prot tree just so that we arent so pigeon hold into a certain build where the only real choice is Instigate/Bloodsurge and Tough as Nails/Spell block

[median tulip]

literally as far apart as it's possible to put them

[plush tendon]

the execute talents are literally worthless

[dusky canopy]

Really having choice is good when the choices have similar value the problem is the choices do not

[median tulip]

agreed; most of our abilities are fine (a few outliers aside), but the tree is really lacking, especially when you compare it to some of the other classesd

[dusky canopy]

So we always just go with the most damage and or the required defensives

[median tulip]

Some of the layout is completely worthless

The arrows from FbV/BrV and CS that go to SW being the most obvious example. Totally worthless links, because who doesn't take Rend?

[sick sentinel]

should i do spell block for RLP 16-20

[cloud umbra]

doesnt hurt. First boss hurts a bit

[strong forum]

doesnt hurt to take it

[dusky canopy]

What if they swapped rend with BV/FbV

That’d gain us a point right?

[strong forum]

well that'd be awesome af

ofc

free talent point hell yeah

BrV/FbV is the 1 weakass talent we have to take

[dusky canopy]

Then we get bolster and we don’t lose BR

Winning

[strong forum]

well i guess also challenging shout

[dusky canopy]

Oh word that becomes more of an option

That would definitely open up our tool kit with options

[sick sentinel]

what am i supposed to do on second boss, just, only SW on bleed

[dusky canopy]

Where do I sign ?

[strong forum]

sw every 2nd bleed

thats all you can do

[cloud umbra]

@sick sentinel are you dwarf? or have evoker healer? SW bleed then ya

[strong forum]

you can desync demo shout aswell

to have SW - Demo - SW - Demo

[sick sentinel]

i died to lots of stuff in that key i tried last night and it disbanded, but most of it came from i didnt clear the thundering

like blizzard says, complicates things adds another step

[cloud umbra]

use your IV and healthpot on the off hits. im not sure you get it for each one

[orchid gulch]

SW bleed, Demo shout, pump some IP, IV... And some health pots

Whatever reduces damage and makes you survive, just not all at once

[sick sentinel]

last boss is brutal too

i dunno wtf it is, but tyranical RLP final boss is everyone just thanos snap

[orchid gulch]

Always thought the last one to be okay, but my group turned into cinders

[cloud umbra]

its really the infernocore dot. people need to defensive

[median tulip]

bring back Deafening Crash

[plush tendon]

Or as your name suggests, parry the bleed

[odd tree]

you should be aware of thundering as the tank, but honestly not great for the tank to spin and kite mobs around to clear it. dps should have been helping

[umbral warren]

hi, I'm new to tanking...in the FAQ it lists a WA for spell reflect, but on wago it says it is no longer supported. Is there a new one that people are using or should I still just use that one?

[cloud umbra]

https://wago.io/tDT26wrXg

[orchid gulch]

Spin the big centaurs with the mean cleave at the dragon boss in NO into the group - "Hey, your thundering is gone though!"

Fun times will be had

[odd tree]

can't be stunned for 5s if your dead!

[tropic gorge]

I like surviving the stun when dps is eye humping the meter and nothing else

[verbal wren]

If people don't clear once, I'll let it go. If they don't clear a second time, then I don't care who I cleave.

[tropic gorge]

I'm kinda the same. Shit happens and I'll easily forgive a couple oopsies

But back2back2back, sorry guys I'm out

[verbal wren]

I'll still try to avoid cleaving, but me dying to stun is way worse than that poor melee being cleaved down

[sick sentinel]

unbreakable fear is the worst effect