really seems like its getting us some better prog honestly
#protection
craggy pilot
chilly brook
wrong
craggy pilot
rtather than just 1 full day of Rasz prog where people get mad in the end 😄
mighty valley
yeah it's one of those fights where hours of prog can just wear our brains and give diminishing returns
chilly brook
either flavor of dorf are bis in m+
rugged mural
On Crawth, are there specific pecks that you Wall due to overlaps? Or just Wall them on CD?
old sinew
4th screech and then peck is scary
mighty valley
we only raid one day a week but we'd do rasz prog for a bit then go back and reclear when everyone was starting to wane
craggy pilot
On Crawth, are there specific pecks that you Wall due to overlaps? Or just Wall ...
you should rotate defensive for all pecks
chilly brook
stoneskin/fireblood
craggy pilot
we only raid one day a week but we'd do rasz prog for a bit then go back and rec...
yea makes sense
rugged mural
you should rotate defensive for all pecks
Aren’t the pecks like every 20s?
toxic pewter
I think as a whole package Vulpera is best for me. Have the instant 40 yard pull/heal, nose for trouble, good quality of life
old sinew
Vulpera BDK might be good. I don't really think Warrior needs it though
sick sentinel
2nd bis? 
toxic pewter
Free heal every 1.5 min is great. It’s like a word of glory
mighty valley
if i was really sweaty i'd switch dwarf until blizzard stops making absolutely wild bleeds
mighty valley
that's the one that bothers me the most
since when does fire make you think bleeding
old sinew
since when does fire make you think bleeding
fr. In fact, fire makes me think anti-bleeding
mighty valley
i was fine with them removing bleed from the phial talent since i think it's ok if there's one consistent dot class that you just gotta handle
but then they let dwarves keep stoneskin
fucked up
toxic pewter
Honestly dwarf racials will eventually lose bleed like what they did with warrior. Not sure when but will happen
The dragon ability never should of happened in my opinion but what’s done is done
sick sentinel
so the belt/ring is just ST no?
tranquil vale
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/VQXr7CYc6Rg93atK/#fight=last&type=summary&source=1 any constructive criticism is welcomed. Seem to be hitting a wall around 17 keys. Just curious as to what I could be doing better. Thanks
mighty valley
Take Thunderous Words for starters
Tons of wasted rage, get this under control
Avatar uptime isn't great but that makes sense with the wasted rage
solemn current
Also better to ditch Enduring Alacrity and just grab Battering Ram. Or even Thunderlord would be better but must of us prefer Battering Ram
mighty valley
oh yeah, alacrity v weak
solemn current
You also don't have a crafted primary stat gem, minor but it's a small change you can make outside of ability usage
old sinew
go spend 10k-20k gold for like a 0.1% dps gain, that's really what's going to take you to the next level. 🙄
limpid ruin
You ability usage also looks low. 15 shield charges in a 22 minute key and ditto with demo shout (ideally you want these to be together). You also might be missing shield slams when it’s up, 250 seems a little low. It’s really important to keep it on cd
modest grove
Guys, what’s the ideal rotation with opener on a single target eranog?
slim dove
a mil for 1%? ez
vernal vale
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/VQXr7CYc6Rg93atK/#fight=last&type=summary&s...
Casts are low across the board
tranquil vale
Thanks guys, I appreciate the advice! Looks like I got a lot to work on!!!
craggy pilot
solemn current
@tranquil vale Rotationally, unless you're taking Thunderlord, you should be trying to put every Shield Charge into your Demo shout and Thunderous Roar/Ravar into every other Demo shout along with Shield Charge. Just looking at your opening casts you waited a bit to hit Avatar which lost you Ravager damage, but you used SHield Charge and Thunderous Roar before every hitting Demo shout wasting damage and usages by delaying. Opening into a pack can looking something like Ravager > Charge/Avatar > Shield Block/Shield Slam > Thunder Clap > Demo Shout > Roar > Shield Charge > Rotation. Shield Slam and Thunderclap for initial rage and snap threat. Make sure to burn any excess raging during that on Shield Block/Ignore Pain because you'll have a lot of it. Especially if you're putting Violent Outbursts into Shield Slam
old sinew
if i could spend 100k for 0.1%
tbh I have no idea what level of key you're pushing so I really have no idea how to react to this, I'm just going to say that of the 24s and 25s I've played, I've never seen it come down to anything even close to this.
slim dove
tbh I have no idea what level of key you're pushing so I really have no idea how...
im just gold capped on 9 characters
idgaf
lusty tiger
.1% easier key on your mental
solemn current
go spend 10k-20k gold for like a 0.1% dps gain, that's really what's going to ta...
A crafted gem costs you like a couple thousand gold especially if you public order it. Only additional cost is commission. Just find someone willing to do it for like 5K if you want to try and proc R3s with more consistency. It's also not just dps but defensive benefits. It also can go in your lariat and you aren't replacing it anytime soon so why not take advantage of a relatively cheap increase to power level?
lusty tiger
im just gold capped on 9 characters
sick sentinel
TJS would be alot worse if in a future season DF it comes back, but its the suns mini event instead
slim dove
https://tenor.com/view/touching-grass-touch-gif-21219969
i leveled a server of chars to max and ran a bot script to do missions in wod m8
sick sentinel
didn't matter what expansion TW, whatever that boss also blows people up
lusty tiger
i leveled a server of chars to max and ran a bot script to do missions in wod m8
i think that
means you need to take a shower
tranquil vale
<@420370171006418944> Rotationally, unless you're taking Thunderlord, you should...
Much appreciated!!! I never really had a set plan going into packs and what abilities to combine with others so this helps a lot
old sinew
A crafted gem costs you like a couple thousand gold especially if you public ord...
getting the for-sure rank 3 requires mettle which is going to vary based on your server. and yoloing thousands of gold on multiple tries for a rank 3 ain't it. You might be able to wrangle a gem for like 2k gold but I'm not even sure if a rank 2 primary stat is much of a DPS grade over rank 3 secondary stats, I'm honestly not sure, certainly not worth thinking about at that point
if you have the gold to spend it's fine but if you're doing a M16 at this point in the season you're not anywhere near content where this is something you want to devote mind-share to
its literally a waste to mentally masturbate over this shit instead of getting actually better
there's definitely good advice - more APM, dump your rage, fix your build. Worrying about some gem ain't it
solemn current
getting the for-sure rank 3 requires mettle which is going to vary based on your...
I didn't say it was his problem I said it a passive upgrade. And I didn't say gaurantee a rank 3 I said with more consistency. You don't know what you're getting in public orders ever but you can easily use a crafter through personal that you know has something l ike 40% ins for R3 proc. It's cheap to keep crafting. It's also got like 2x the stat weight of a regular R3 gem at even R2. Primary stat is insanely good. Either way you're over here trying to argue that someone shouldn't be optimizing their character in a game that involves optimizing your character. What are you even doing.
craggy pilot
@mighty valley https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/J6hmkqxPcrT27WC9/#fight=28&type=damage-done
damn man 😄
mighty valley
NOOOOOO
sick sentinel
im just gold capped on 9 characters
pay to win, or its a private server
lusty tiger
dk beating your healers
old sinew
I didn't say it was his problem I said it a passive upgrade. And I didn't say ga...
I'm arguing that masturbating over an imperceptible gain that will cost you a bunch of gold (not everyone is gold capped) is not worth thinking about at his point in time. There's so many other things to spend your time and energy on
vernal vale
<@222954580839759872> https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/J6hmkqxPcrT27WC9/#fig...
So close to kill
strong forum
Logs are scuffed on rasza because of the platform split
sick sentinel
gold cap on 9 characters is, .... yeah....
fresh igloo
I don't see where anyone said "optimize your gear so you don't have to learn how to play properly"
sick sentinel
i legit see no reason someone needs 100 milion gold
1 million, 10 million, even 25 or 50 sure
sick sentinel
mission tables?
old sinew
I don't see where anyone said "optimize your gear so you don't have to learn how...
as long as he's clear that of all of the feedback mentioned, this is almost literally the bottom of the list, its fine. if you can take that gain "for free" its fine. But I certainly wouldn't advice someone go waste time farming world quests to pay for this gem for instance
slim dove
mission tables?
wod primarly.
sick sentinel
so you just play on ipad all day and send missions 24/7?
slim dove
so you just play on ipad all day and send missions 24/7?
scripting.
solemn current
I'm arguing that masturbating over an imperceptible gain that will cost you a bu...
Suggesting an easy gear change to improve player power that he's clearly missing is "masturbating"? Lol you alright buddy? It also costs a few thousand gold, get over yourself.
old sinew
I mean I have the main stat gem on my pwar I'm just saying I only have it because I buy gold whenever I want more gold, that's not an option for everyone, and if you aren't pushing high keys is probably not worth it for you
slim dove
took a 2 year ban for it in late legion, came back with all my gold still there 🤷
lusty tiger
took a 2 year ban for it in late legion, came back with all my gold still there ...
2 year ban?
solemn current
And in case you were too busy focused on masturbating myself and others also gave talent and rotation advice. You're just stirring up shit for nothing.
slim dove
2 year ban?
yes?
sick sentinel
buti mean, that story isn't for today anyway
slim dove
big diff between perm and 2 year
lusty tiger
just like a whole xpac?
slim dove
idk
old sinew
And in case you were too busy focused on masturbating myself and others also gav...
because it's barely even worth mentioning, its the most nitpick of nitpick, you only brought it up to make yourself sound smart, "guys guys he doesn't have the gem he doesn't have the gem", like christ
solemn current
because it's barely even worth mentioning, its the most nitpick of nitpick, you ...
lmao dawg what are you on?
old sinew
lmao dawg what are you on?
it's so easy for you to say "the gem isn't a big deal" and yet you're doublin gdown
solemn current
You able to read or?
dry spear
Diurna mythic. I was on add duty but we wanna switch because the monk can pull the adds fastee together. Do i have a build for boss tanking? Or is it the same build i take for adds?
strong forum
Isnt monk infinitely better on boss?
How can monk pulls adds faster together too, their taunt movementspeed thingy doesn't exist anymore
lusty tiger
How can monk pulls adds faster together too, their taunt movementspeed thingy do...
like as a viable option?
strong forum
No, it just doesn't exist anymore
lusty tiger
also monk can dodge brood slams right?
lusty tiger
No, it just doesn't exist anymore
it is a talent
strong forum
U sure?
lusty tiger
yes
solemn current
it's so easy for you to say "the gem isn't a big deal" and yet you're doublin gd...
In case you need another angle. "Minor but its a small change you can make outside of ability usage". You also completely ignored the talent change and cooldown usage suggestion. Just stop. You look stupid.
old sinew
Why are you still replying to me?
strong forum
Ah ye I found it
strong forum
Diurna mythic. I was on add duty but we wanna switch because the monk can pull t...
Nothing rly changes except that you play heavy repercussions cuz you perma tank
modest grove
i need some help with deciphering some damage taken stats:
I (on the right) mitigated more damage then tank on the left (same ilvl, same spec, different groups, heroic eranog). But it seems that burning wounds did me nasty. How can I fix this?
lusty tiger
i need some help with deciphering some damage taken stats:
I (on the right) mit...
are u dying?
modest grove
are u dying?
nope
fresh igloo
i need some help with deciphering some damage taken stats:
I (on the right) mit...
different taunt swap stacks maybe
vernal vale
i need some help with deciphering some damage taken stats:
I (on the right) mit...
Stacks
strong forum
That mitigated% tab isn't smth you should care about
lusty tiger
are u taunting off each other between 8 and 10 stacks?
fresh igloo
check the stack debuff count
strong forum
You should care more about the amount of debuff stacks
lusty tiger
ye
modest grove
Oki thanks will check
jagged pier
sick sentinel
no clue where to find how to see wasted rage, how much am i throwing out the bin https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/yhGYfgxTqBwC8pmk/#fight=1&type=summary
craggy pilot
damn @mighty valley no kill today 😦
craggy pilot
we have more people coming next week
so relearning for a few people
and im probably not tanking on monday
so the other tank needs to learn P2 + P3
mighty valley
eh, not a tank heavy fight imo
mighty valley
but yeah
craggy pilot
eh, not a tank heavy fight imo
we do get a lot of wipes because of bad tanking though
our normal tank dies a LOT
and doesnt hold aggro on adds Intermission
so people die to melee
slim dove
what class is he
lusty tiger
craggy pilot
he was BrewMonk, but swapped to PWar
undone verge
Rasz is pretty boring to tank, you basically just dps and maybe press a cooldown every once and a while
slim dove
you just save shit for intermission adds cuz dps always want to pad
craggy pilot
so he is "new" to PWar
slim dove
eg roar one, aoe taunt second, roar third
craggy pilot
this looking decent for rage waste i guess?
slim dove
whetstone split between the 9? targets is meh
lusty tiger
No it’s not
slim dove
don't depend on it alone
lusty tiger
Well
slim dove
yeah its pretty meh mate.
craggy pilot
whetstone gave me a TON of AOE threat
lusty tiger
Are u gonna press a not gcd button then do nothing lol
craggy pilot
like holy shit
undone verge
you just save shit for intermission adds cuz dps always want to pad
1st set- Outburst TC+whatever is available in TR, whetstone, ravager. 2nd set-challenging shout. 3rd set- TR+whatever else is up
That’s what I do
slim dove
isn't gonna hold shit from a fury war or dh going ham
craggy pilot
but then again, im doing 50k dps Rasz
lusty tiger
It will (as a piece of the pie)
craggy pilot
he was doing like 30k
foggy drift
Is it a must to use spell reflect after dark eclipse on sbg first boss for say a 21 key ? I was getting hit super hard after the cast
lusty tiger
Well what idiot would whetstone then afk
slim dove
idk fam u tell me
fresh igloo
Is it a must to use spell reflect after dark eclipse on sbg first boss for say a...
that's probably the extra melees ability. Deathspike!
lusty tiger
Lmfao
lusty tiger
That is pretty true
slim dove
especially prot wars
lusty tiger
Fotm be like that
craggy pilot
CPM 13.6 SS
10.8 TC
slim dove
cant wait for fotm andys to go play prot pal
undone verge
craggy pilot
i reckon thats also ok
undone verge
Can’t rip aggro from me when I ramp up to 90k during first intermission
fresh igloo
Is it a must to use spell reflect after dark eclipse on sbg first boss for say a...
looks like it is shadow damage, so you can spell block it, shield block it, reflect it...
craggy pilot
Can’t rip aggro from me when I ramp up to 90k during first intermission
lul
im 416 only getting 48.5k dps in Rasz 🤔
foggy drift
that's probably the extra melees ability. Deathspike!
Yeah that was hitting me hard and killing me when the boss was at like 40%, admittedly the healer was somehow oom at that point. But what’s the best way to deal with that?
craggy pilot
might be cus our AOE adds just die insanely fast
slim dove
im 416 only getting 48.5k dps in Rasz 🤔
pad on p2 adds harder
undone verge
Rasz is weird for parsing cause you need heavy st classes and light aoe classes so you can pad, but force ST phases fast
fresh igloo
Yeah that was hitting me hard and killing me when the boss was at like 40%, admi...
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/e/2PACX-1vS26lkSc_eaulHX7-UY8Uu-7DAHvkScxh3npd0kQn3uvvWsgsQm9ducLUi4R2mb7ieNluVilyq5sQe5/pubhtml#
looks like great spell reflect fodder
and yeah it seems like it comes out after dark eclipse quite often from what i've seen
foggy drift
Yeah okay I fucked up then
foggy drift
Hahaha
fresh igloo
it definitely comes as a surprise if you haven't seen her whomp like that before
foggy drift
Yeah that was my first 21 this season
foggy drift
Somehow got invited to it
slim dove
WHOMP
fresh igloo
lol yeah
fresh igloo
shadowmoon is a great key to blow through but has a few surprises
foggy drift
Yeah my thoughts going into it was surely this isn’t too bad 😳
But idk how healer was oom at 40%
fresh igloo
if you spell reflect/spell block at the end of dark eclipse there, should be good.
foggy drift
Yeah easy ❤️
torn gulch
when do you reflect those daggers though exactly when the pool appears and the dagger is above your head?
vernal vale
cant wait for fotm andys to go play prot pal
Same tbh
torn gulch
oh yeah i confuse some casts sometimes
fair enough
i got dumpstered in cos by a succubus for not realising that i can SR her slash
need to pay more attention to the SR/SB list
old sinew
when do you reflect those daggers though exactly when the pool appears and the d...
When she auto attacks she can gain a buff with 3 charges that cause her attacks to do shadow damage
strong forum
when do you reflect those daggers though exactly when the pool appears and the d...
The boss gains a buff of 3 stacks
Watch out for that buff, when buff up. Press SR
fresh igloo
yeah that's deathspike.
old sinew
Danger danger is when she has that buff right after an AE
That’s when I’d reflect and then wall
grim pilot
I got chest/gloves left to use catalyst one, which one should I use it first?
strong forum
whichever youre less likely to replace
warm plinth
Kinda crazy how many people I've spoken to who think daggerfall is deathspike
mighty valley
tbf clarity in the old dungeons is ass
modest grove
Is spamming revenge better on a single target then rend?
modest grove
Alright
Kek
and
if i get a free cast, it’s better to spend it on slam or revenge ?
strong forum
you also never press slam
mighty valley
don't they teach prot warrior in school any more
tawny badger
Nah we can’t read
undone verge
if i get a free cast, it’s better to spend it on slam or revenge ?
whirlwind
strong forum
modest grove
very serious teachers we have
undone verge
whirlwind is our best button
cinder storm
Do we have slam?
rain light
yea
modest grove
ty
slate idol
slam op
warm plinth
Shield slam
Shield Slam doesn't have "free" procs. Revenge does. Shield Slam and Revenge's procs are different. Shield Slam is just a cooldown reset. Revenge makes it free. They aren't an either/or thing.
old sinew
Shield Slam, an already free ability, getting modified to be free reminds me of those AI generated Hearthstone cards. "Free. Free. Free."
sick sentinel
EVERYONE GET IN HERE
old sinew
EVERYONE GET IN HERE
nah I meant more like this -
sick sentinel
hearthstone WAS good
now its bad, what gives
there was a time when hearthstone was main game i played and i even spent some cash on it
old sinew
Just as Hearthstone took from WoW, its time for WoW to take from Hearthstone. Bring Rafaam to WoW IMO.
craggy pilot
anyone know how i get the Castsequence that most streamers use?
is it in base details?
silk ether
Folks I have a question, picking prot up after getting a bit bored pushing on arms. I was wondering if based on your experience with particularly tough pulls if there are particular pain points in dungeons where you found spell block to be life saving, and if there’s a resource somewhere that puts it together
pallid quiver
Only dungeons it's usually considered in is Temple, RLP, and sometimes AV? Mostly the first two
sick sentinel
i would love if you can challenge real player to real game of hearthstone inside of wow
lethal plaza
any good resource on how to skip the fire dragon in RLP
pallid quiver
You give up a non-zeto amount of damage for it, and SR has a magic dr on it, too, so
sick sentinel
take the mobs to the stairs and have group stack or in a line down the stairs
silk ether
Only dungeons it's usually considered in is Temple, RLP, and sometimes AV? Mostl...
I thought it was good in SBG as well with the void slashes and some other trash on fortified?
cinder storm
Folks I have a question, picking prot up after getting a bit bored pushing on ar...
Check the pins, there's a spreadsheet
cinder storm
any good resource on how to skip the fire dragon in RLP
You can mind soothe and hug the tree or shroud and walk behind the tree
cinder storm
anyone know how i get the Castsequence that most streamers use?
Do you mean the streamer plugin?
craggy pilot
Do you mean the streamer plugin?
i found a WA that fixed it
gonna use that for now 😄
if i wanna write a rotation / opener for someone to practice, does anyone know a good tool to put in a list of icons? 🤔
lament zealot
ilvl > haste > crit = vers > mastery
I see this is pinned. I'm curious why prot warriors in the MDI aren't doing this stat prio, could someone with a larger brain than I shed some light?
cinder storm
Live keys are different from mdi
pallid quiver
Gear don exits/mdi diff/they might just not know
strong forum
alot more lightweight
strong forum
using poor coded weakauras and addons is #1 source of people lagging out, so if you use weakauras, make sure theyre lightweight or delete unnecessary weakauras
lament zealot
Live keys are different from mdi
Could you expand on that? If crit = parry and that is the best mitigation why not use that in MDI?
strong forum
given the absolute mongoloid pullsizes of MDI, crit is even better
the larger you pull, the better crit becomes
so if they dont enchant/socket crit, theyre soft-inting
as it is also by a decent margin, our best offensive stat
lament zealot
From the people I've inspected, they all are haste/verse
strong forum
and MDI is all about dmg output
strong forum
From the people I've inspected, they all are haste/verse
most people just copy what 1 top guy does and go from there
so if naowh is socketing haste/vers, everybody will copy
thats how high rio gearing works
lament zealot
I get that. I'm just surprised that the #1 MDI tank isn't up on the latest and greatest y'know?
strong forum
i mean it was always fact that crit is good
vers is also good
just not as good as people made it out to be
and especially right now
you have VERY little agenda over your stats
simply due to the fact of ilvl = king
and sockets make up extremely little of your stats
so the diff is minimal
warm plinth
Yeah like anyone can run a sim and realize that strength is just massive compared to any secondary.
cinder storm
Vers also reduces bleed damage no? Then there's no point for them to stack vers since everything dies so fast
warm plinth
And then ofc weapons have weapon DPS (which is even more important than strength) and shields have block value
lament zealot
Yeah I agree about the stat agency but the MDI tanks get to create whatever gear they want. I was expecting one of them to be running haste/crit.
novel cloak
guys is it sitll advisable to use frozen devotion over sophic devotion if you are after dmg for m+?
strong forum
not everybody is open minded enough to stray from the norm of "pick vers"
MDI and top players arent perfect
look at the tank meta shift
strong forum
guys is it sitll advisable to use frozen devotion over sophic devotion if you ar...
sophic is generally better for m+
lament zealot
You'd figure if you don't have to actually work towards getting the gear at least someone would give it a go
cinder storm
Take Zaelia for example, who is a player on another level, doing more dps than other healers while healing as much or more than other healers. Some MDI runners are good at dungeoning and decent at some classes and better at others but not perfect
People love to see naowh but Zaelia is like their shining beacon imo
warm plinth
They don't get to create whatever gear they want. They get to pick whatever gear they want. 4 pieces are tier which leaves no choice on stats, shield is also fixed stats because they're obviously going to use the 424 one which is haste/mastery. Trinkets are either mastery if they're using whetstone or primary stat. That limits your slots that you have to play with on secondaries to begin with.
lament zealot
That's fair
strong forum
You'd figure if you don't have to actually work towards getting the gear at leas...
i mean look at the tank meta in m+ rn, everybody jumping onto pally train only after andy and kiea started to unzip em
warm plinth
Like they can craft gear on the TR but generally you're not going to craft something when you can just buy a 421 from a vendor instead of using a 418
strong forum
its all a massive bandwagoning
warm plinth
Yep, top tanks are not infallible just because they're top tanks.
strong forum
and most of the time, top end players are rarely the ones pioneering new shit
warm plinth
It's something we have to fight against in here literally all the time.
lament zealot
I'm not arguing that. I was just curious is all.
warm plinth
More recently, the fact that decoration of flame is all over subcreation for prot warrior
So people think it's this god tier trinket
strong forum
ye and we're tryna explain how and why
warm plinth
In reality it's mediocre
strong forum
look at what brewmaster for example
warm plinth
Or brewmasters have that fucking NO scale all over theirs lol
cinder storm
Codex when
strong forum
every streamer, every tank player memed brewmaster
lament zealot
In reality it's mediocre
What are the BIS trinkets for M+ atm in your opinion
strong forum
lots of /whos said it was dead tank
meanwhile the 2nd tank to ever clear a +20
was a brewmaster
and that was before their buffs iirc
warm plinth
Whetstone and all-totem would be my pick, mostly because I don't like having double on-use or feel like playing around the cast of grieftorch or the root of boon.
lament zealot
Same
strong forum
MDI is icon + X
lament zealot
Also got a whetstone with leech so I hold it close
strong forum
X being boon/grieftorch
warm plinth
Yeah, I don't generally play with others with icon so
timber terrace
it was a cos that key does nothing to tanks and brew was weak especially at that gear level having less than 70% stagger
warm plinth
that's not really in the pool for me
silk ether
Check the pins, there's a spreadsheet
The pinned portion is spell reflect? I already have that WA
strong forum
it was a cos that key does nothing to tanks and brew was weak especially at that...
so all the other +20s he timed in the very same week didnt count?
timber terrace
You can do 20s on weak specs reloe is a good player he could have done it on a bear too
cinder storm
411 weapon 🙂 just glove pants and helmet to upgrade now
warm plinth
411 weapon 🙂 just glove pants and helmet to upgrade now
Big! Congrats sir
My cutlass is only 408 because I don't have the score to upgrade yet 
timber terrace
Doesn't mean brew was especially good, it was playable and that's about it, still is that to some extent, if you watch a brew doing high keys right now it's an uncomfortable yo-yo the whole key
strong forum
nobody said brew was especially good
but people made the claim that the class is in fact so shit that it wont be able to clear 18s
and literally mega doomed
and refused to take a "no" for an answer
toxic pewter
That is true I remember that. I even was thinking of going brew at start of df and my guild leader told me I couldn’t if I wanted to tank for the guild
That was based on df beta lmao
strong forum
and beta ended before the monk and paladin buffs
cinder storm
All tanks were shipped in a good spot but community perception is too strong, no one is really obligated to do keys higher than 20s, yet every tank can time 20s even before their respective nerfs/buffs
timber terrace
I think brew just needs 1 more tier of gear to be broken, gaining smth like 5% stagger from agility and having better selfheal or absorb trinkets will make them op
silk ether
You would think people wouldn’t be gigamorons about balancing given even the top specs are within the margin of individual player skill expression
slim dove
speculating on tier sets is pointless
strong forum
You would think people wouldn’t be gigamorons about balancing given even the top...
youd think people play for fun
cinder storm
One can only dream
strong forum
and not to pretend theyre doing e-sport levels of competetive play
timber terrace
Brew has an insane amount of cds and doesn't need healing so yeah it's really comfy in the raid
cinder storm
Wait
toxic pewter
What is the root of it all? Is it blizzard and their balancing? Or is it the community and peoples incessant need to put things into tiers? Like if everything was “fully balanced” would people still create tier lists?
fallow nova
People in this game are largely conditioned to spreadsheet-ify everything in order to maximize performance
strong forum
ive never excluded anybody for their choice of spec or class
be it mythic raiding or m+
fresh igloo
People in this game are largely conditioned to spreadsheet-ify everything in ord...
the majority of people don't math anything for themselves. they just parrot what someone ELSE told them.
toxic pewter
Yah I think it comes down to the individual person and their choices
fallow nova
That's true
strong forum
aslong as the player doesnt suck ass, ill bring them on whatever
fallow nova
It's the worship of the min/max mentality that causes that, though
fresh igloo
so one streamer saying "brew is shit" = all of season 1 people claiming brewmasters can't tank.
fallow nova
Yeah, a lot of followers
warm plinth
We took that entire discussion to come up with the same thing that has virtually always applied: bring the player not the spec
strong forum
its not just the streamers issue
cuz even if the streamer is careful with their wording and super objective
people will only take snippets or things out of context
warm plinth
The opinion of one guy isn't the problem; it's their rabid fanbases taking the simplest statement and blowing it up.
fresh igloo
it's not just streamers, yeah. people love to blow things out of proportion
fallow nova
But outside of believing that streamer for no reason, a lot of it comes back to the idea that if you aren't doing the literal, provably best thing then you're deliberately making bad choices
Of course that gets diluted down to preference, but it's the same core mentality
pallid quiver
It also helps focus their mindset on being "good" players
fresh igloo
"there's a 0.4% delta between these 5 specs" gets turned in to "the 5th spec is trash"
fallow nova
Yes
timber terrace
The dragonflight trees made every spec able to perform at least decent in every form of content the player matters way more than the spec, unlike the last seasons of shadowlands were a meh sv hunter was still out damaging everything
strong forum
"its the worst, therefor it sucks"
warm plinth
Yeah like how often do people come in here saying mastery is a shit stat
because it's at the end of the priority
pallid quiver
It's a lot easier to be a "good" player by playing the best class than being, like, good at the game
fallow nova
It's not unlike unfettered profit-based mentality.
strong forum
ill never understand the meta chasing or only playing whats good
toxic pewter
It’s wild how much of it is perception
strong forum
im built against that
warm plinth
I play what's fun, though I have been lucky in that two of the specs I've played were actually meta lol
strong forum
so ill never be able to understand it, as much as im trying
warm plinth
Not counting prot war since I've never played that as a main or pushed keys super high with it
fallow nova
Think of it like running a business. Many businesses turn the corner from making X niche product to "unless our goal is to make literally all the money in the world, we're doing business wrong"
strong forum
i'd take more pride in getting to X point with underdog spec, than getting to a high ranking with overpowered spot
timber terrace
I rolled warrior in dragonflight because it has been a while since I played it and the new tree turned them from wheelchair tanks to giga tanks
strong forum
"how much of my ranking comes from me and how much comes from my choice of spec/class/weapon"
ykno?
its not satisyfing if its not from your own skill
but from the thing you chose to play
pallid quiver
It's results oriented thinking
fallow nova
Thats because you're more concerned with fun/expression than maximum results
(Which in my opinion is more healthy)
pallid quiver
And it is your own "skill" yo pick the top tiers
Trying to explain
I don't agree with it, but
strong forum
thats why i hated vers stacking so disgustingly much in BFA
fallow nova
People will optimize the fun out of their gaming experience, and it's the dumbest thing to do
strong forum
youre not tanky because you play well
warm plinth
Oh yeah go back and watch vods of pwar in BFA
strong forum
youre tanky because you have 30000 pillows stacked around you
atomic nest
Am I crazy what talent gives two shieldwalls?
warm plinth
It's actually gross
strong forum
Am I crazy what talent gives two shieldwalls?
defenders aegis
warm plinth
Watching shield block not be up for half the dungeon
atomic nest
Thanks
strong forum
disclaimer regarding that talent*
it has no practical use in normal wow
its only good in MDI style content
timber terrace
It's a multiplayer game tbh it's not just about meta chasing, like if you were playing prot warrior in sanctum or sotfo you were just griefing your guild
fallow nova
Shield Wall cd reduction is better for us non-MDI plebs
toxic pewter
Someone should do a large scale research study on wow meta or video games and meta in general
strong forum
and if you want to make a super strong case for it, in TJS it can be good in low keys if you wont have more than 3 phases on 3rd boss and for the last pack in TJS
fallow nova
Someone should do a large scale research study on wow meta or video games and me...
I watched a video about that some time ago
silk ether
and not to pretend theyre doing e-sport levels of competetive play
This is fascinating to me because the differences in what specs can do on the bleeding edge of content just don’t matter to 99.9% of the player base but they somehow govern what someone running a weekly 16 invites to his group. And it really is a superiority complex, like I have to optimize everything because you are all not good enough for me
toxic pewter
I watched a video about that some time ago
Oh interesting any chance you remember the name
fallow nova
Trying to find it
strong forum
This is fascinating to me because the differences in what specs can do on the bl...
its so obnoxious
i hate that so much
but how would bad players know?
theyve never experienced a good player if they pick meta shit for their low keys
fallow nova
It was semi clickbaity with insinuating that NOT going meta was BM, but it was a larger overall breakdown of the social aspects of gaming
strong forum
cuz theyre stuck in low keys
warm plinth
This is fascinating to me because the differences in what specs can do on the bl...
On the other side of the coin, people invite the "meta" spec because they assume that just because you're playing a strong spec you'll do high damage. But there is a pretty large segment of rerollers that don't know how to play the spec they rerolled to and actually do not do well at all.
strong forum
so its self perpetuating again
warm plinth
Or they invite a prot warrior and the prot warrior thinks they should be spamming ignore pain instead of using shield block and just fall over
strong forum
good players are rarely seen in keys below maximum reward, so people stuck there are stuck amongst themselves
fresh igloo
I mean this is the same thing people talk about with low ELO hell in league of legends. the bad players stay in low ranks while continuing to blame everyone but themselves for being stuck at X rank.
strong forum
but the trickle down issue is exceedingly strong in wow
vernal vale
There is a huge amount of people who have no idea how other classes play at all and try to tell you what to do better thats 100% wrong info as well
timber terrace
Prot warriors have been the worst tank players I've seen in my pugs on average
fresh igloo
good players learn and improve.
strong forum
Prot warriors have been the worst tank players I've seen in my pugs on average
wouldnt surprise me yea
despite being super easy to play
toxic pewter
Honestly every prot warr I’ve encountered in the wild is in dstance at all times and their talents are… weird
fallow nova
It's actually an interesting watch
toxic pewter
https://youtu.be/BKP1I7IocYU
Sweet thx gonna watch it
fresh igloo
https://youtu.be/BKP1I7IocYU
oh this was going around a lot recently, it is an interesting one
fallow nova
For sure
silk ether
I’d argue it’s a lot more likely that you end up with a terrible player if you invite fotm rerollers and meta specs just because of how many there are and because people who stick with classes are much more likely on average to know their class in and out. It was interesting the last couple of seasons of SL to invite warlocks and not see a single curse used throughout the instance for example
sick sentinel
I wonder why there was so much volatility on the wow token today
it was 182 or 183k now its 177k
toxic pewter
Diablo 4
fresh igloo
people who stick with "their" spec when it is NOT FOTM tend to be serious about it.
sick sentinel
how?
strong forum
I’d argue it’s a lot more likely that you end up with a terrible player if you i...
yes
people who stick to their guns are more likely to perform better than fotm rerollers
and use their full toolkit
vernal vale
people who stick to their guns are more likely to perform better than fotm rerol...
I mean i play nothing but prot warrior and while far from the best I would say I know enough to be solid
strong forum
that being said, majority of players are still just bad
warm plinth
I mean...tbh you didn't need to use curses lol. Like the most I used was like a curse of exhaustion to help people kite shades or something. It's not like numbing poison where I can apply it to the entire group with one cast. You'd have to spend a global on each curse which is just unreasonable.
toxic pewter
I think wow as a whole would generally be better if people just played what they enjoy and have fun lol
vernal vale
I think wow as a whole would generally be better if people just played what they...
this is true
fallow nova
Fotm folks tend to just see a tier list, look at an icyveins guide one time and then expect top mythic performance
warm plinth
Most curses used were like, when people were running HoA as venthyr, which applied curses to everything it hit
toxic pewter
There’s this layer of self imposed pressure people take on when they meta chase
It’s unconscious
When if you just having fun that doesn’t exist
warm plinth
Yeah I always play better if I'm having fun
tacit dirge
is it more valuable to upgrade your weapon or shield to 418 first?
warm plinth
Boredom means I lose focus
round pendant
Lmao I just got #1 damage on a +2 key
vernal vale
is it more valuable to upgrade your weapon or shield to 418 first?
shield
timber terrace
The real problem is with all the content creators, ressources, "esports" people just can't play for fun or admit they suck they just play meta and try to push keys even tho they don't have the fundamentals
silk ether
It’s not so much whether the curses were useful or not. They always are in a min max situation, but it’s that if you play a class a lot its utility is second nature. Like you just whirlwind hamstring spitefuls as fury as you run to the next pack almost subconsciously. I have yet to see any prot warriors in pugs use rally during heavy group aoe phases like tyrannical hyrja or storm boss in nokhud. Of course you can survive without it but it’s like the muscle memory isn’t there yet
hoary hazel
https://youtu.be/BKP1I7IocYU
omega based video
strong forum
also, people try to make up shitty excuses when theyve been wrong about smth
e.g. brewmaster monk
timber terrace
The result is pug keys being a disaster because everyone wants to push above their comfort zone and then they think it's because the content is hard so they will only invite meta specs
warm plinth
When in reality it's probably their own skill level and/or the skill of the people they're inviting that is the wall
Like you always see people complain about how shit pugs are; you rarely see people saying I can't do 15s because I'm not good enough
fallow nova
I think people are also too quick to call something shit
Like it validates your other claims if you can eliminate X things as not worth considering
timber terrace
Except devastation evokers you can eliminate those
toxic pewter
Ya that’s the self-fulfilling part
vernal vale
Like you always see people complain about how shit pugs are; you rarely see peop...
I always comment about my sorry ass can complete 20s anyone should be able too.
toxic pewter
Confirmation bias is real
warm plinth
Except devastation evokers you can eliminate those
Devastation is the spec you play when you want to be able to sleep and do your rotation at the same time 👍
timber terrace
Nah it's a meme but devastation evoker is a pretty useless spec it brings nothing interesting and it has weird restrictions and clunky abilities
fallow nova
They probably wanted the shiny new toy to be simple for all the ex-players it was supposed to bring back
warm plinth
It is indeed very clunky
timber terrace
They do damage but that's about it
sick sentinel
evoker is cool
turbid shuttle
they're great at pulling aggro
hoary hazel
i mean
sick sentinel
either of them
fallow nova
I've only played through their intro just to see everything, but I really didn't enjoy it much
warm plinth
It does have good utility though. Cauterizing Flame is still good as DPS, they still have poison dispel, Landslide is situationally useful, aoe soothe is insane
hoary hazel
its hard to make a interesting complex class
warm plinth
And lust ofc
warm plinth
They also have a knock
hoary hazel
it was omegabrain dead back in legion
warm plinth
and a knock-up iirc
hoary hazel
but now its cinda ok
sick sentinel
i have very little hate for any one class or spec
silk ether
I think 90% of the pugs I formed in the 20-21 range failed if I tried too hard to make them meta lol
strong forum
I always comment about my sorry ass can complete 20s anyone should be able too.
and im like "if they can do X, so can you too"
timber terrace
Just being a ranged with a short range is enough to make the spec awkward
sick sentinel
as long as people are trying to do the key i don't often get too mad
warm plinth
I'm probably going to hell but I do that at my job. I work in a warehouse and we have a dude in our receiving department with one hand. I'm like if this dude can meet our productivity standard (and exceed it) then you don't have an excuse
silk ether
The most successful push group my friends and I had were prot paladin, me as arms, hpriest, devoker and DH
sick sentinel
its just like, they are probably trying, but it does suck if they don't interupt or they die
turbid shuttle
truth is for the vast majority of players it's hard to get genuinely good at your class and the dungeons
so mediocre, perpetual-fotm-rerollers will constantly be bad
silk ether
Yeah but I haven’t managed to get invited to a single 20 pug as arms and I’ve timed all of them except one haha
hoary hazel
the circumstances of life
idk i get in pretty easily
might be because im 420 ilvl and 2.9k score but ye
turbid shuttle
yeah that's an instant invite for any group that's not specifically looking for lust/brez/soothe
at a 20 key
atomic nest
Tank and healers get in then you look for like 2800 io dps for 20 pugs haha
fallow nova
Arms is so much fun in AA
silk ether
Heh yeah I’m not that advanced
hoary hazel
Videogames are fundamentaly not hard
silk ether
But arms is amazing
hoary hazel
it just takes practice
silk ether
Also amazingly tanky
timber terrace
I've been playing prot pala and I'd say it's easily the best tank to pug, the kit is just too strong
hoary hazel
and if you dont practice you stay bad
fallow nova
Eh, I feel less squishy as fury
turbid shuttle
I boosted a ppal and started leveling it, and I do not enjoy the buttons
fallow nova
But arms is 10x more fun to kill things as
fresh igloo
i feel like i'm the only person that likes fury some times lol
turbid shuttle
warrior buttons are so satisfying to press, and vdh (my other tank) has a really nice feeling rhythm to the rotation, even if it is simple
ppal just seems... empty
fallow nova
It was my first choice up until the last week or so
toxic pewter
Would you guys play wow if they got rid of addons
fallow nova
Only recently converted to arms when I go dps
fresh igloo
Would you guys play wow if they got rid of addons
they'd need to do a lot more work on the UI.
fallow nova
Would you guys play wow if they got rid of addons
Absolutely
timber terrace
Just having a lot of interrupts and a bres+ the utility makes it save deaths or even wipes other tanks couldn't do shit about
fallow nova
Though I think without a damage meter a sizeable chunk of the playerbase might not know what their lives are worth anymore
silk ether
Eh, I feel less squishy as fury
Really? Ignore pain almost trivializes most aoe things as arms
fallow nova
I probably should be using ip more lol
timber terrace
My only problem with prot Pala is they do absolutely no damage on single target
fallow nova
I'm used to how passively fury heals, then having regen to hit as well
That was my beef with prot paladin as well.
Felt great doing everything besides boss fights
silk ether
Yeah took me a while to get used to pressing it but I definitely felt like I had more preventive tools than fury
fallow nova
Whereas warrior absolutely crunches on bosses
I'm working on porting my "use all the rage" mentality from prot to arms
strong forum
its so funny when you think about how paladin was literally the ST dmg king for several expansions
fallow nova
I probably overcap too much, ironically
strong forum
did little aoe, but destroyed ST
warm plinth
ngl I don't even know where the tanks are damage-wise right now
timber terrace
But you can make it up by pulling bigger because you have more interrupts and better cds than most tanks
fallow nova
The utility of ppally does feel really nice
strong forum
bear > brew=pwar >= pally >= vdh > bdk in aoe
turbid shuttle
vdh bottom in aoe really?
my vdh outdps my war in places like AA
maybe im bad pwar and better vdh tho
strong forum
sounds like a skill issue then 
sterile bough
also could be wrong build
undone verge
well how much is your warrior doing?
strong forum
for ST
bear > war > brew > pally > vdh > bdk
warm plinth
I assume bear aoe is with raze
undone verge
nerf guardian druids, they dont get to be happy
undone verge
I know but gotta make sure
warm plinth
Guardians have to choose between ST and AoE afaik?
undone verge
they have to chose between living and doing dmg
turbid shuttle
guardian is dog tier to play, so make sure it's always bad so we never need to reroll to it
strong forum
they have to choose between ST / aoe / surv
pwar doesnt
thats why pwar is mdi tank
undone verge
if prot ever has to chose between dps and surv im rerolling
undone verge
whats defensive stance?
timber terrace
Prot warrior is the mdi tank because it has a shout to buff the uh dk and the feral
turbid shuttle
on 5 target 3 minute with lust, my pwar sims 88k, while my vdh sims 100k
strong forum
not just that, we dont rely on CDs too much for dmg
and we scale into aoe
more than other tanks
undone verge
your prot warrior sounds undergeared
turbid shuttle
ilvl is the same (within 0.5), at 418 for both
strong forum
on 5 target 3 minute with lust, my pwar sims 88k, while my vdh sims 100k
that sounds very low for pwar
warm plinth
Are they the same ilevel? lol
strong forum
thats just me logging out with whatever my gear is
undone verge
strong forum
ye ITF + BB + Uproar inflates dps in perfect conditions alot
lets see my maxipad build
now im curious
timber terrace
warm plinth
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8Gm47So2vDtumy5dr7LDDX I'm clearly the winner
undone verge
I have a 421 tier chest in the vault but I cant take it till we kill council to see if we get an icon we can give to me, otherwise I gotta take the normal icon in my vault lol
so Im stuck at 415 till then
warm plinth
Your co-tank doesn't have an icon?
strong forum
i lost to mokoo
undone verge
Your co-tank doesn't have an icon?
he does but then he wanted to swap to monk so now we dont have a tank icon
undone verge
fr
and since technically I could get a m+ chest piece and upgrade it to 415, then 3-6k dps from a tank icon is way bigger than my 421 tier piece
turbid shuttle
equipment manager had swapped a couple items when I was flipping between specs
re-did it with correct items at 108k
undone verge
still shitty feeling for you though 😦
yeah
turbid shuttle
awkward
warm plinth
Hard to be a coconutcat sometimes
undone verge
life is hard for a prot warrior
warm plinth
I'm still the winner. big 95k
undone verge
especially when you get hit by the off tanks frontal in earth zone on mythic kurog like 4 times then are asked to go dstance for the fight 😦
also we didnt know youre supposed to swap earth add so I got melted
that didnt really help my case
in 2nd intermission
strong forum
skill issue detected
undone verge
skill issue detected
turbid shuttle
if I take ITF goes up to 126k. not bad.
warm plinth
hmm
warm plinth
apparently checking optimal buffs chooses static empowerment in aoe lol
turbid shuttle
ya I wouldn't run it in key I don't think
warm plinth
I guess because sims assume you don't move
dusk sky
do i take a 398 incarnate over whetstone? for m+?
strong forum
apparently checking optimal buffs chooses static empowerment in aoe lol
eye in the storm doesnt exist in sims
dusk sky
whetstone is 408
undone verge
no
warm plinth
oh, really?
strong forum
ye i checked
turbid shuttle
I dunno maybe. I'm up over 30% haste without ITF, so it's pretty close to full SB uptime
warm plinth
That's fuckin weird
undone verge
I dunno maybe. I'm up over 30% haste without ITF, so it's pretty close to full S...
itf in raid heavy rep in m+
turbid shuttle
yes I'm aware of the recommendation
but if you can maintain 100% with ITF, it's strictly better
strong forum
big if
undone verge
super big if
warm plinth
do i take a 398 incarnate over whetstone? for m+?
Not unless you're constantly going to be playing with a group of other people using icon
strong forum
^
timber terrace
warm plinth
Mokkoo coming to fight rn lol
timber terrace
forbidden spec goes to 151k
timber terrace
3% of their abilities but 50% of their damage is trinkets
rain light
will prob have to dps or heal next season if i actually want to raid
warm plinth
3% of their abilities but 50% of their damage is trinkets
Man you can't just say it like that 😂
timber terrace
Well brew and dks are meta most of the raids for good reasons, it's the odd ones when warrior is meta and it's often in the first raid
torn gulch
forbidden spec goes to 151k
that looks like exodia
slim dove
prot pal meta for a month then giga nerfed, calling it now
round pendant
I'm gonna try to play both war and pally next season
God I'm not looking forward to brackenhide
Or HoI
round pendant
I can't wait to make a goblin monk too
strong forum
we're literally only halfway done with s1
round pendant
Of course
slim dove
@strong forum i got a leech 421 eggnog ring in vault
the kicker? no spark for belt, haven't seen a single one drop past my 5
strong forum
pick and try to get spark
warm plinth
just get one 4Head
warm plinth
I haven't gotten any sparks either since the 5th
slim dove
strong forum
i got 1
from WQs of all things
so i think its just a flat chance per activity to drop a spark
doesnt have heavier weightings towards higher content
slim dove
didn't they say some sort of bad luck protection similar to legion?
or was that a rumor that got around
slim dove
yeahhh i remember legion in the beginning
round pendant
If only I could get 421 eggnog
warm plinth
Yeah they never said anything about BLP and Legion legendaries didn't have that in the beginning
slim dove
running keys for days and days trying to get my BIS legendaries
rolling the wrong 2 and loading up the next druid
silk ether
Sorry for another noob question, are people taking the incapacitate aoe taunt in any dungeons? Seems like it might be useful situationally in HoV and RLP?
sick sentinel
no, because it doesn't add dps
sick sentinel
i don't run it personalyl
silk ether
Fair
strong forum
me neither
silk ether
I’m not pushing 24s or whatever so want to make sure I’m comfortable surviving before going ham on dps
Guilty of overdoing it in survivability or dps in the past
sick sentinel
still a slave in the valor mines guys
i got my 3k for weapon, gotta do some more odd k for helmet and legs, possibly hands
turbid shuttle
disrupting shout is stronk in almost every dungeon
not a must pick or anything, but it's very nice to have
sick sentinel
i need 2375 for head and legs to 411 +1200 for hands
nimble laurel
Does the dagger buff from the first boss in SBG proc at any stack or always at 3 stacks?
turbid shuttle
starts at 3. each hits consumes 1 stack.
mighty valley
Sorry for another noob question, are people taking the incapacitate aoe taunt in...
it's an interrupt, not incapacitate, so just kinda keep an eye out for situations where you'd want to interrupt multiple casts at the cast time
they're not that common tbh
turbid shuttle
super common imo
mighty valley
maybe if your dps are kinda sleepy
silk ether
Never trust
sick sentinel
it does spell lock them based on school
so like, 80% of mobs probably only cast only nature spels, or only ice spelsl
nimble laurel
starts at 3. each hits consumes 1 stack.
Does 3 do more damage?
silk ether
AA too I guess
turbid shuttle
av has lashers, both rings. rlp has basically the whole dungeon. no has tempest area, twins area. AA has bridge areas, vexamus area, hov has halls area. tjs doesn't have too much tbf, but it's nice for pre-mari trash. cos has a few spots (imps and some other stuff). sbg has bats and maybe 1 or 2 other spots.
turbid shuttle
Does 3 do more damage?
no. each one does like a second hit, which consumes 1 stack
mighty valley
between kick, storm bolt, shockwave, and int shout, which you can get with no dps loss, i find i'm good
turbid shuttle
many, many things are kick-only
mighty valley
but again that's if your squad can be relied on
if i pugged a lot i might end up taking it more
turbid shuttle
and also really nice for grouping large packs with casters
i pug a lot also tbf
e.g. double pull trash on vexamus platform
aoe shout gets like 4-5 casts and brings them in nicely
mighty valley
show of force is the natural drop
silk ether
It’s also nice to feel like you are one of those bosses that interrupting shouts lol
What a good problem to have lol
Too many good talents
mighty valley
god 90% of the discussion at the start of the expansion went like
"why aren't you taking X talent, it seems good"
"what are you dropping for it"
"fair enough"
warm plinth
oh right no nitro
Global emojis don't work in here anyway :p
turbid shuttle
i also come from vdh, so i'm too addicted to silence
turbid shuttle
there are some small things about disrupting shout that are better
but overall agree, silence better
larger range + instant cast is better, but obviously silence without having to hit the cast and 8s lockout is very very good
sick sentinel
why not
i want to hear it, wow head says 37 per stack , game says its 47 per stack, (both same ilvl), it's some weird gem thing? hrmmm
lone eagle
Only time I'd run Interrupting Shout
is M Dathea
good for grouping platform adds
otherwise you have enough tools
cinder storm
I use it mainly for NO, mainly last boss
sand mason
cinder storm
If you have a dk with slappy it is super easy, grips all adds, stun, disrupting, kicks, fear, another stun if still alive
slim dove
Global emojis don't work in here anyway :p
TRASH
cinder storm
With pugs I assign first kicks on three adds and cc one and I tell them to group in the middle
warm plinth
i want to hear it, wow head says 37 per stack , game says its 47 per stack, (bot...
🤷 It has a pretty low proc rate is the issue. It's 2.2ppm so you're getting 2 or 3 stacks per minute, meaning it takes minimum 6 minutes to get all 18 stacks and even then you don't get much for it. 750 secondaries is like...nothing compared to some procs you get a lot more often from other items. And you don't really get to control when you end up getting that 15 seconds of secondaries. Even assuming you get 3 stacks per minute every minute (which it'd be closer to 2), it averages out to about 330 secondaries, which is less than a stat stick of the same ilevel (HotP as an example has 447 crit at the same level). And then you get 750 secondaries with literally 4% uptime that can happen at any time.
onyx needle
What is the advantage/disadvantage between using Def. Stance to Battle Stance? Besides the obvious 15% decrease in dmg taken/done. I am asking cause I have noticed I am able to keep IP and SB up a lot more in Battle Stance to Def. Stance. Like 70% uptime to 50% uptime.
warm plinth
The stats go up per gem but it's still a long time to get those stacks. And then if the stacks aren't permanent you could end up dropping them even
warm plinth
What is the advantage/disadvantage between using Def. Stance to Battle Stance? ...
There should be literally no difference in uptime on either of those things 🤔
digital nebula
can i message someone with some questions i have?
warm plinth
I guess theoretically IP uptime might be a tiny bit higher in battle stance if you're doing keys and have 4pc since you're doing more damage and thus feeding 4pc more. But it shouldn't be anything crazy
sure
slim dove
can i message someone with some questions i have?
just post here.
warm plinth
or that
digital nebula
I currently have 34.27% of haste is there a cap i need to be worried about before diminishing returns?
turbid shuttle
10% diminishing return past 30, 20% past 40
onyx needle
There is a sheet value, i think it is a raiting of like 5140 haste to hit the first soft cap
warm plinth
We don't care about the DR at 30%, to be clear.
turbid shuttle
yeah
onyx needle
raiting*
warm plinth
It's literally irrelevant
And you can't hit 40% from rating this season
which is when you would care
slim dove
And you can't hit 40% from rating this season
1k haste neck + 1k haste ring + 800 haste ring + 421 blazebinder + alch stone
BOOM
roasted.
warm plinth
But my general assumption when I see numbers toward the mid-30s is that you're using ItF, which in keys you shouldn't be.
digital nebula
so i'm good to keep using haste gems/enchants?
slim dove
so i'm good to keep using haste gems/enchants?
yup
digital nebula
awesome, thanks!
vernal sky
oops
warm plinth
1k haste neck + 1k haste ring + 800 haste ring + 421 blazebinder + alch stone
touche
slim dove
thats 3800 rating alone right there bud
warm plinth
So you can hit it but you have to be really suboptimal in trinket choices 👍
slim dove
55% haste with ITF here we go
is it really suboptimal if i can post my sheet haste everyday here and farm replies?
warm plinth
True, it does have top tier meme quality
slim dove
my carpal tunnel simply couldn't.
vernal sky
I died on a random Crawth 20 pug
my hp really wasn't going up despite me doing all i could
am i correct in assuming that's pretty low hps for a healer?
slim dove
bad CD management and/or healer just not paying attention to you.
this is a cringe as fuck week to heal so dont be surprised if you just flop sometimes.
vernal sky
i mean i try to have a cooldown for every tb but there's too many to always have something, and there's the bleed
sick sentinel
i have to gem specfic gems for it to work right
fuck that im out before even anything else than cuz i can do lariat
onyx needle
Some healers (class and spec) are just suboptimal for both bursting and grievous combined.
toxic pewter
Tyran crawth with grevious sounds awful for healers tbh
wind lotus
every heal check boss with grievous
onyx needle
will go ahead and say resto shaman is bad this week
wind lotus
lightning guy in NO
sick sentinel
what about the trinket that makes my flask increase
slim dove
rsham feels terrible this week
sick sentinel
thats bad too even?
slim dove
poor dude has me waiting 10 seconds between pulls in nok
like buddy its not even fort
i wanna blast
sick sentinel
cuz, its that,lariat, or bracers at this point
slim dove
bro had to heal 3 dps with barely any self sustain
vernal sky
oh wow that's a ton of hps
vernal sky
mh tbh arms isnt that bad with spell reflect during storm + pretty much ip on cd
lone eagle
they do get a 50% heal buff for most of it
slim dove
eh
lone eagle
but still a lot of hps
wind lotus
then there's vex, hyrja, azureblade... all seem miserable to heal with grievous
vernal sky
i feel like there's way fewer players than even just a few weeks ago
slim dove
this is a bad week + mid season burnout.
toxic pewter
Yah I’ve been burnt out for a month now to be honest
vernal sky
i think ive never been that miserable pugging keys
so many people leaving keys it's insane
slim dove
its a miserable week in general
punished for pulling big
bosses all suck
spriest basically mandatory in higher keys
silk ether
I usually look forward to tyr week because honestly I'd rather spend the instance doing bosses instead of trash mobs that require so many interrupts per pull but they somehow went and made it even more cancerous than usual
slim dove
id much rather just pull giga big and coordinate stops/interrupts then spend 3-4 minutes on a boss or fucking Azureblade lol
silk ether
last week first 2 rooms of AV was worse than any tyrannical boss
vernal sky
maybe im just tired of people expecting the key to be fed directly into their mouths
slim dove
a 5 minute azureblade slog is not fun
vernal sky
feels like tank burden just keeps getting worse
silk ether
2 weeks ago lusted tyrannical worm in a 21 SBG and had it back up for nerzhul -_-
would rather have the 5 min azureblade
slim dove
well worm is a whole bag of problems in of itself.
vernal sky
mega boring but super inflated health bar
silk ether
I'm not sure I even understand it's mechanics exactly lmao
vernal sky
tbh that's pretty much tyrannical in a nutshell
slim dove
I'm not sure I even understand it's mechanics exactly lmao
nobody does.
MDI casters basically did a live 🤷 and laughed when one team dealt with precisely ZERO submerges
how in the fuck SBG/COS made it into the pool at all is beyond me
vernal sky
what's bad about cos?
silk ether
SBG is a mood it's just designed by a programmer who retired in 1990
CoS is fun IMO. Can't wait for Seat of the Triumvirate >_>
slim dove
what's bad about cos?
tree boss, rng enforcer spawn locations, every boss is beyond boring and as complex as a tbc dungeon boss
vernal sky
if they do seat of the triumvirate i unsub instantly tbh
give us cathedral i won't mind but seat goodbye
slim dove
im for literally anything that gets SBG out of my dungeon pool.
silk ether
actually though I feel like we've gotten all the worst WoD dungeons
slim dove
ill fucking do stonecore over this trash lol
silk ether
bro don't you defame stonecore like that
vernal sky
tree boss, rng enforcer spawn locations, every boss is beyond boring and as comp...
tbh the vast majority of dungeon bosses are boring and the main difficulty in tyrannical is not to fall asleep
silk ether
break yourself upon my body
silk ether
lol I wouldn't mind a halls of reflection or pit of saron m+
vernal sky
like i'd say azure vault has pretty boring bosses too, maybe not as much but they're certainly not hard
slim dove
hell normal raid felt easier then initial cata heroic gearing
vernal sky
and tanks are more active than other roles in av so they're even more boring for other roles
warm plinth
I liked most of the Cata dungeons I think
silk ether
lol the most complex bosses mechanically this tier are all in Halls of Valor
warm plinth
I wasn't a huge fan of Tol'vir or the sky one but I didn't really hate them either
vernal sky
didnt like grim batol too much
silk ether
wasn't the sky one in WoD?
warm plinth
Stonecore is one of my favorite dungeons though
No, WoD has Skyreach which is maybe what you're thinking of
silk ether
ohhh yeah that other one with the triangle electric aoe on the last boss
warm plinth
I'm talking about the one with the lightning dude at the end that puts down the triangle of lightning you have to stand in to not die to his aoe
yeah
vernal sky
he's thinking of the one with alakkir' servant
warm plinth
vortex pinnacle I think it's called
silk ether
man that dungeon is so low energy I fall asleep every time I get it in TW
warm plinth
Yeah it's quite boring, but it'll be nasty on M+
There are some pretty rough trash mechanics in there, and the one boss that does the cyclones is gonna be spicy
silk ether
didn't they say MoP would be their cut-off for m+?
warm plinth
Like the little cyclone mobs at the start will cyclone people which stuns them for like 6 seconds and they send it faster than melee kick CD and there's like 2-3 in every pack
slim dove
didn't they say MoP would be their cut-off for m+?
they did.
design limitations or some garb.
vernal sky
not a big fan of quite a few mop dungeons tbh
slim dove
somehow tjs/sbg are more complex then cata heroics lul