protection

[sick sentinel]

free tendies in 24 hours

[hazy sluice]

yo can some1 drop me a proper academy route for general play? like bl for crawth and first pull/first boss

is it ok to clear a bit trash before vexamus until bl comes up for crawth again or is there a more efficient route?

[brittle silo]

y would you bl crawth on forti?

[plush tendon]

we blood lust there

just seems to be where it lines up again

since we do first pull to left lust

[hazy sluice]

on 20+ i always bl him in fire phase even on fort

[plush tendon]

there might be a better spot

[brittle silo]

Pretty sure bl get back after crawth on forti weeks. At least it timed like that on my 20 last time

[hardy snow]

i prefer to go vexamus first, bl there, if trash goes well and there is more than 3 time left after Wind guardian go to tree clear trash there, go back to bird wit hbl

[unborn forge]

Why BL on the fire phase and not at the start? The screech is a timer right?

[hardy snow]

you get buff to dmg after fire phase starts

[unborn forge]

Only for like 10 seconds? And dps will hold theirs cds for that too

[cinder jackal]

Hey guys - I've been asked to go offensive in raids until survivability becomes an issue.
So for the last few weeks, I've been gearing based off sims. In all cases bar a couple, it's recommending crit enchants and gems etc.

Having read a number of guides, everything is screaming haste/vers (vers for ease of prog).
Any thoughts on going crit? Is it a sim trap, am I compromising my defensive capabilities too much for a small DPS increase?

[mortal brook]

All stats do the thing and itll be fine on the overall

Best way to be more offensive is pressin the buttons good tho

Give logs for better feedback on that tho

[lime urchin]

yes, pressing buttons >> stats!

[cinder jackal]

Oh completely agree - And I did get some log feedback a while ago (could / should perhaps do it again).
So I know this is a very minor point, it's more that I felt I was going against the grain so wanted to question it.

[solemn current]

If you hold for 4 stacks you can send 1.5min CDs and lower at the start and have them back up for fire phase damage amp. Can probably even send 2min if you hold fire phase a little longer but it could be risky.

[fallen pulsar]

Crit is also very good defensively as it increases parry %. Vers is better for dealing with things prot is naturally weak to like physical damage DoTs, but in terms of stat value they’re generally equal. So long as you’re going for highest ilvl crit/vers is equal in value

All stats are useful to prot in the end, even mastery has value

[sick sentinel]

versa does 3 good things for me, so i like it becuase of that

and universal damage reduction

[woeful trellis]

is the trinket from nokhud good?

[sick sentinel]

mid at best id say

[tame jasper]

yep. I onnly wear it as its 418 and I have no alternative

[azure ivy]

17 academy, now the bird boss did bug and we all had to hearth out and go back in to reset it, missing bird caused boss to bug, missed timer by 2-3 mins I believe, but I was just wondering if we should be doing more or if that’s actually good

[sterile bough]

having an english verious would help

[tame jasper]

Granyths enduring scale

[jagged pier]

well yes and no vers is good at dealing with bleeds and stuff, but if u parry a melee or crit block it for instance while a bleed on u, your IP will do more against that bleed than the vers% will give you

[undone verge]

Eh yeah that trinket is mid

[tame jasper]

oh wait I mixed them up

[sick sentinel]

quaking soon

[sterile bough]

its shit the trinket

[sick sentinel]

ya'll ready for it

[jagged pier]

only good trinket from NO is the dps one

[sterile bough]

it gives you good ovearll healing but not when u need it most of the times

[jagged pier]

icon of somthing

[sterile bough]

trampling hoof u mean

that slaps

[gloomy sphinx]

https://tenor.com/view/ghost-chased-help-animation-gif-11516603

Run melee run

[azure ivy]

Idol is solid for tyrannical and raid?

[sick sentinel]

i want that trampling hoove or whatever he linked for the party MS

[tame jasper]

quaking in terms of ignoring? 😄

[sterile bough]

quaking is bitch

on these dungs

[tame jasper]

i mean its a free affix

[sterile bough]

with this affix

with thundering I mean

2nd and 3rd boss NO absolut cancer

[sick sentinel]

funny until the healer gets quaking'd and then thundering'd

then deplete

[sterile bough]

or last boss rlp

1 quaking 2 inteurpting shout

like when is healer even supposed to heal

...

dogshit game

with a dot ticking 200k a sec for 3 sec

[tame jasper]

tjs 1st and ruby 1st etc suck more with thundering, where you rarely see the blue circles in water or 3rd in AV when u have to stand on top for below zero and have a thudnering thing in your ^^

[sterile bough]

ye

absolutly tragic affix this season

quaking

[jagged pier]

ye

[plush tendon]

yea, this week is kind of poop

especially for healers

who need to drink

[hardy snow]

if by bugged bird boss you mean that he doesnt reset when using balls in fire, you can just start from the wind balls and it works fine then, slightly harder, but faster then hearth out

[woeful trellis]

thats what i got

[jagged pier]

trampling hoof is okay

👍

rng tho

its rppm i believe

[azure ivy]

No apparently one of the birds in the last pack of adds just disappeared and wouldn’t come back til we all left, we killed elemental boss then the last bird add showed up before boss

[woeful trellis]

but better than big toe i guess 😄

[tame jasper]

well most annoying bug ont he bird is that after you did fire and want to start throwing wind balls at the next "intermission", but they dont count and you cant reset - much fun on tyra weeks. destroyed me several keys

[jagged pier]

ye

[heady wedge]

lmao. can't even tell by gametext what theses trinket are

[sweet summit]

whetstone
big toe
trampling hooves
in that order 🫡

[azure ivy]

Did you guys see the storm furry 389 trinket sold by the vendor called sands of temporal perfection

[strong forum]

Woah didn't know you were German bruder

[sweet summit]

i'm not

[sick sentinel]

we are the panzermensch

[sweet summit]

i see numbers and i guess

[strong forum]

You guessed correctly

[sick sentinel]

i only speak meme german

[strong forum]

Only 1 rppm on it

[sick sentinel]

achtung nien nein etc

[modern brook]

Ergowns

[sick sentinel]

so, on the plus side, for me at least, i am now free of bolstering for a wihle

[strong forum]

Doesn't look to be a particularily useful trinket

[torpid fiber]

Bolstering has to be my least favorite affix.

[sick sentinel]

its an alts trinket

[strong forum]

For me it's storming

[sick sentinel]

if its the new storm haste one

[strong forum]

Storming makes me scream irl

[civic girder]

At least it's not original bolstering, that was really aids

[sick sentinel]

storming i am 200000% chill with until it yeets some guy into patrol

free charge procs man

i eat all the tornadoes so nobody in the group must suffer them

[oak echo]

bolstering actually felt very easy to deal with this week. got my biggest IO gains i've had in a while and finished getting all portals last night. storming can straight fuck off though

[gloomy sphinx]

Let’s not trigger my ptsd 💀

[modern brook]

The worst affixes are the ones that are active and also storming

[oak echo]

highlight of the week for me was getting storming right before thunderhead did his knockback and i got yeeted into outer space

[gloomy sphinx]

Please tell me there’s a clip 🤣

[oak echo]

i wish

[lime urchin]

I would love some affixes that radically change the way you go through dungeons each week. But the dungeons are not really designed for that.

[sick sentinel]

no

u didnt play BFA keys

[gloomy sphinx]

NO PLS

[sick sentinel]

i tihnk

it was such a dark time

[oak echo]

naw. and that's what i loved about season affixes up until thundering

awakened in BFA and enlightened or w/e in SL where you could do some more creative route changes

[gloomy sphinx]

With the fact we don’t have the same dungeons for the whole xpac this feels less warranted imo

[sick sentinel]

keys in BFA..... they were something different let me tell you

[lime urchin]

ah yes, true true

[oak echo]

this is also true

[sick sentinel]

i've seen that fetid maggot kill so many ppl

if blizzard puts mythic + underrot back in the game in season 2/3/4 DF im uninstalling the game

[oak echo]

no way

i would love underrot to come back

[uneven mason]

Loved underrott

[sick sentinel]

im not doing it you cant make it play that dungeon agiain

[oak echo]

give me underrot, freehold or AD in a M+ rotation this xpac please

[gloomy sphinx]

I think they’re trying to get back to a principle that allows the player to focus on playing the dungeon more than the seasonal affix. With a more basic seasonal it becomes more “thematic” I think is the word they used

[sick sentinel]

nonononon

underrot DF m+ is you think you do but you dont

[gloomy sphinx]

Brudder let’s just bring back KR and Shrine

[strong forum]

DF s2, return of Kings Rest

[lavish oracle]

Underrot was sick back in BFA and it'd be easier now than it was then

[strong forum]

yeah UR would be easy now

[lavish oracle]

More classes have access to kicks and stops than they did in BFA

[strong forum]

and defensives

[oak echo]

shrine i think i could enjoy as long as they don't fix all the snapping

[strong forum]

for 2nd boss

[jagged pier]

SPELL BLOCK GOES BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

[lavish oracle]

Yeah, true

[oak echo]

but if you tell me KR or siege were in play

i'd take a break from the game lol

[sick sentinel]

10 second stun

bat things that silence

[lavish oracle]

KR is fine, siege is unplayable

[sick sentinel]

dead speaker makes adds

[lime urchin]

I mean, if KR or Siege was just 1 season again, i'd love to play them again

[sick sentinel]

deathbolt worm

[lavish oracle]

I remember that dungeon perfectly

[sick sentinel]

i can go on forever that place is hell

[lavish oracle]

It's all kicks and stops

Which we have more of now

[torpid fiber]

Unpopular opinion, kings rest was fun af

[high drum]

blackrock depths m+

[gloomy sphinx]

Honestly I would love to see KR and Siege make a return

[high drum]

WHEN

[sick sentinel]

kings rest lighting dude after first boss BRRRR

[high drum]

return to return to karazan

[gloomy sphinx]

But at the same time if they scrapped the whole old dungeon mashup seasons I’d be happy too

[lavish oracle]

Last boss of siege sucked so hard

And the fucking spotter tech was unfun as hell

[toxic pewter]

Gonna see some cata dungeons I hope

[sick sentinel]

king cobra was a really good dungeon but it was tough

[lavish oracle]

Lost City of Tolvir would legitimately be such a fun M+ dungeon

[high drum]

m+ tribute runs

bring frost oil

[gloomy sphinx]

A lot of dungeons werent built with challenge mode/m+ in mind so I feel like a lot of dungeons would just feel bad

[inland raft]

Kings rest but the new affix makes you have to do shrine, siege, and td, throughout the dungeon, keys are now multihour long affairs

[toxic pewter]

They can redo them

[viral elk]

It'd only be 1/8th of the original dungeon.

Shit's so long

[high drum]

sad

[jagged pier]

cant wait for UBRS m+ where u have to pull the entire of the first room like in wod

thats gunna scuff so many ppl

[gloomy sphinx]

They can’t really redo the entire dungeons tho makes negative sense to do that when they could’ve spent the same resources on making a new one

[high drum]

lbrs is actually the best designed dungeon they've ever made

the verticality of it

how everything links together

and ubrs is in the same instance...

perfection

[lavish oracle]

Boss Rush M+, where you get like 8 bosses on a 30 minute timer

[sick sentinel]

what if its a raid, and you have, 4 hours to kill every boss and it has some extra mechanics

[tacit widget]

Haste/crit or Haste/vers for crafted gear?

[torpid fiber]

Wrong. Oculus is the best dungeon ever created. I will not be hearing any arguments. Thank you.

[gloomy sphinx]

Let’s just get all df dungeons for every season /shrug

[fallen pulsar]

Tbf does the trash in lbrs or ubrs really do anything crazy caster wise? If its just a bunch of punchers big pulling will just be the move

[sick sentinel]

and then its just like mythic + ish

you go in, slam in the raid key, see what you cna do in the time

[toxic pewter]

I know community is split but I enjoy them bringing back older dungeons and mixing with new

[lavish oracle]

I do hate the idea of every season being a new round of buggy unbalanced nonsense

[high drum]

problem is they havent gone back far enough

[oblique wharf]

any1 who can take a look at log from my m+ run?

[high drum]

all the best instances are in vanilla

[lavish oracle]

That said, I do wanna do Freehold again

[viral elk]

haste/crit does more damage. haste/vers will offer a little more survivability, I guess.

[sick sentinel]

i liked pretty much all of the dungeons

[lavish oracle]

And Waycrest

[sick sentinel]

theres a few i protest but i mostly do whatever dungeon it says i have to do

[fallen pulsar]

Maw of Souls when tho, need to witness the fastest world first +20

[high drum]

yogi you dont have to do anything

vault is a lie

embrace the 1 socket per week

[lavish oracle]

Waycrest but always top left

[gloomy sphinx]

I fully support the idea of making old content current again for people who didn’t get to do it but it feels really shitty to be staring down a key I’ve already run a thousand times

[sick sentinel]

waycrest but never bottom right

thats how to fix it imo

[gloomy sphinx]

But always bottom right*

[sick sentinel]

illegal

[gloomy sphinx]

Bring back pig rush mdi strats

[sick sentinel]

i am calling the police and u will go to jail

[lavish oracle]

I mean, I liked them before and I still like them now

[toxic pewter]

Yeah but if it was just all 8 Dragonflight dungeons every season again that literally would be the case also. At least you ran those a thousand times years ago and they were not as challenging

[gloomy sphinx]

Remember that season? The UDK doing over 1 m

[lavish oracle]

Kinda fun when everyone's still figuring out how dungeons work and I get to teach them all my legacy tech

[amber siren]

waycrest manor and tol dagor go straight to hell for pulling packs through the floor the entire expansion

[remote phoenix]

Is it worth training Ruby Whelp for haste buff, or should I go for aoe dmg? Mostly doing m+

[lavish oracle]

I must have run waycrest several hundred times and I can only remember mobs pulling through the wall once

[slate pine]

How the FUCK do you guys do the 3rd boss in Temple of the Jade Serpent??? Did a 20 last night and my shit just gets rocked left and right! 404 ilvl

[gloomy sphinx]

I’m of the mind that I would rather grind a bunch of new shit til I’m bored and the expac dies than grind old stuff I’ve already grinded for 3 years

[uneven mason]

Use CD for strike

[toxic pewter]

There’s a pin that mentions CDs you can use and what order

[lavish oracle]

You gotta rotate through your heals to help your healer get rid of the absorb

That said, boss is scary

[slate pine]

Oh shit, really? Ima have to look at that. we got it done but damn!

[wide dragon]

question from wow noobie. whats UBRS and LBRS?

[toxic pewter]

Upper and lower blackrock spire dungeon

[wide dragon]

ahh kk thanks

[amber siren]

ST proc, haste or crit but it's not a great trinket for M+ because of unresolved PPM bugs

[toxic pewter]

It used to actually be a single instance and can like run the “upper” or “lower” section of it with different bosses and mobs etc

May even still be I don’t remember

[wide dragon]

So like Kara/Mechagon?

[dusky canopy]

ST proc 6/6 does like 10% overall for us no?

[toxic pewter]

Yah it is perhaps the first mega dungeon along with blackrock depths

[dusky canopy]

I haven’t seen a war break down with it but pally breakdown it pumps

[toxic pewter]

And maybe dire maul can be considered a mega dungeon too if you run it all lol

[amber siren]

It's good when it's good because it procs more than it should

Or it'll proc way less

Hence why it's not great

[wide dragon]

I starte din 8.3 BFA, so its kinda cool getting to see older dungeons, but the tuning always feels off for the first few weeks.

[dusky canopy]

Oh that makes sense

[slate pine]

Can anyone guide me towards how to find this pin for this strategy? I can’t seem to search it

[toxic pewter]

#protection message

[slate pine]

Thanks homie!

[dusky canopy]

I’m all for a mega dungeon like black rock spires a full run was what like 25 bosses?

That’s cool to me

[toxic pewter]

Yah many bosses

[vast goblet]

Copium

[dusky canopy]

It is copium

They’ll never do it

But the idea is cool to me

[toxic pewter]

I had a lot of fun there I’m down for it again

[vast goblet]

10 man mythic raids!

[dusky canopy]

8 man mega dungeon

1 tank 2 heals 5 dps

[vast goblet]

As long as it’s not in the m+ rotation lol

[dusky canopy]

Right right

[toxic pewter]

I will say 10 man content super fun. I still remember ZG being great times

I’m down for 8 man ya that would be new for wow

[dusky canopy]

10 man scaling now is kinda beans

[strong forum]

i like the idea, ngl, but it would make tanking even more stressful

[dusky canopy]

Like heroic rasz 10man is more challenging

[strong forum]

if its gonna be as complex as m+ is now

[pallid quiver]

Just make all the mechanics hate on the dps

[strong forum]

that just makes you feel useless as tank

[ebon wren]

how are people streaming with servers down :/

[astral crystal]

I found heroic raz 10 man to be way easier than 30

[pallid quiver]

yeah but it'd be funny

[strong forum]

EU

[ebon wren]

unfair

[toxic pewter]

Doesn’t final fantasy 14 do 8 man content

[pallid quiver]

Fuck them dps kids

[ocean bloom]

y eah 2/2/4

@toxic pewter

[dusky canopy]

Imaging strolling through a 25 boss mega dungeon as 1/2/5 that sounds so badass to me

[toxic pewter]

They do 2 tanks… I see

[strong forum]

final fantasy is also pure boss fights

[ocean bloom]

mhm

[toxic pewter]

Ah

[ocean bloom]

the dungeons are basically heroic dungeons

[strong forum]

like every boss is sludgefist or painsmith

[viscid plaza]

hows the protchat today

[pallid quiver]

Yeah, there's not like, any relevant trash

[ocean bloom]

but the mechanics in FF14 are more like puzzles

[toxic pewter]

What does lost ark do

[pallid quiver]

And if you don't so the mechanics the specific way the devs intend you to, everyone dies usually

[ocean bloom]

like eveyrone gets a differnt debuff that does a differnt mechanic and you need to stand in a weird formation

[dusky canopy]

Don’t want this give us tank busters to deal with

[viscid plaza]

LOTS of dancing in XIV

[strong forum]

they dont have the trinity

[dusky canopy]

But also allow us to pull big

[strong forum]

its all dodging

no tanking

[toxic pewter]

Oh wow interesting

That’s wild

[strong forum]

everybody is a dps, some more than others

[ocean bloom]

imagine it like monsterhunter

boss does telegraphed attacks that you need to dodge

[strong forum]

you can tank a few mechanics

and have support classes with a few heals

but there is no straight up threat or tanking

everything is avoidable

[ocean bloom]

yeah supports are more there for specific mechanics and increasing the dmg of the party

[strong forum]

lost ark is an mmo-arpg

[ocean bloom]

i played Pally in that and i basically just maintained dmg taken debuff on boss and spamed shields on the party

Supports are there mainly for the dmg taken debuffs/atk buffs

its a multiplier of dmg and you can do some big wombo combos

[strong forum]

the diff between lining up CDs with your support and not is like 1000%

in high end its all about lining shit up

[ocean bloom]

mhm

[strong forum]

rest is just dodging and doing mechanics, not much sustain dps

[ocean bloom]

some of the solo content was fun if you are into that, but lost ark just has too many chores lol

[strong forum]

lost ark is 90% daily grind and rng upgrading

[ocean bloom]

i dont mind the rng upgrading that much i just hated the idea that if i wasnt playing 6 characters i felt like i was just falling behind

[strong forum]

its super fun, but super scripted how your day goes, you cant just spam gameplay like in wow with m+

you have your weekly raids/dungeons and your 3min of dailies per char

[ocean bloom]

yeah lost ark is some of the best combat ive played

it was alway sastifying when you landed the counter on a boss and everyone gets to go ham on it

[dusky canopy]

I can’t find a game to compete with wow I just enjoy wow too much

15 years of wow daily/weekly will do that to you I guess lol

[strong forum]

wows fluidity in combat is unmatched

[sand mason]

M+ is undefeated

[dusky canopy]

Couldn’t agree more

[inland raft]

Ya did loa through abrel then quit, some of most satisfying feeling combat in mmos, everything feels so impactful, but the daily gameplay loop gets old

[sand mason]

No one else has something like that

[strong forum]

which is wild

its such a proven concept at this point

why dont more game have this

[uneven mason]

This tbh, wow makes buttons feel good to press

[sand mason]

I would love to see more infinite scaling pve content in other games.

[strong forum]

not just infinitely scaling

but also non-raid content

[sand mason]

Right. With creative affixes.

[strong forum]

do you tho

do you need affixes?

[dusky canopy]

I do not

[sand mason]

I could see someone making an m+ only type game that would be successful.

[dusky canopy]

Make the base dungeon/mob design interesting

[sand mason]

I think +20 without affix wouldn’t feel as badass without

[dusky canopy]

And then we figure out how to survive the scaled version of it

[strong forum]

cuz we've been conditioned to only think with affixes

[sand mason]

Gotta have the punish to feel the super great reward.

[sand mason]

Yah tru

[dusky canopy]

You can have the punish in the base dungeon design

[sand mason]

I think mechanics minorly changing weekly is nice

[dusky canopy]

Idk man maybe it’s a pug life thing but

All I ever hear is oh great it’s this affix this week..

[sand mason]

I think storming is a pain in the ass because we only have it every 6 weeks. It would just be a joke if it was on a certain mob every time

[dusky canopy]

Not oh sweet we get to have this one this week!

[sand mason]

I feel like the wow community hates 11/12 weeks of the affix rotation but wow community is also doomers

[strong forum]

what about an affix that buffs certain mobs only with affixes, and if you kill those, you get a large chunk of count extra

like in d3

[dusky canopy]

When’s the last time you were like alright guys I get to kite sanguin all week hell yeah!

It doesn’t make it feel more rewarding

It’s just annoying

[sand mason]

Anything that changes up the dungeons weekly is great. Doesn’t have to sanguine or bolstering lol

[sick sentinel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfMtBmEettE this is basically what the MDI is for 1996 quake

its very similair in alot of ways, the only goal is get to the end fast as you can, its like mythic + without trash in a sense, becuase they never kill anything

[vast goblet]

so a speedrun?

[sand mason]

Honestly when I did a giga clean dungeon with sanguine and pre kite to not drop on casters and my group says “wow, this was awesome” at the end I feel turbo rewarded

[dusky canopy]

I think In general I’m personally a fan of the kiss curse style affixes we get for the seasonal

Weekly ones like that could be cool

[strong forum]

yes we need more of those

not the curse-curse affixes

[sick sentinel]

i think that there are some very strong correlations between old video game speed running, and wow mythic + keystones, yes

[sand mason]

I think you can get rid of tyran and fort, and maybe only have a single weekly and a single seasonal

[vast goblet]

I think M+ would get stale really quick if it werent for the affixes

[modern brook]

is it the "Trying to go fast" part?

[dusky canopy]

I’m also in favor of not having fort or tyr

[sand mason]

Rotate explosive, bursting, storming, spiteful and maybe a few others for a short cycle instead of 12

[sand mason]

Exactly

[sick sentinel]

its about the doing it fast and corect and not making mistakes so you made it through

[vast goblet]

some of them change the way you play a certain part of a dungeon completely

[sand mason]

Mhm. The ones that make you not pull big are lame af tho

[prisma crane]

yes, but you can achieve this with all positive affixes too instead of ones that just hinder us

[pallid quiver]

Affixes need to incentivize playing differently, not just slap you for something and tell you you're a bad dog player, I think

[sand mason]

Bolstering sucks.

[vast goblet]

yeah bolstering is a pain in the butt and i love it for that

[sick sentinel]

the entire goal is to go as fast as posible though, hell, look at one of the most loved characters ever, sonic, and the flash

[sand mason]

An affix where mobs do insane damage unless you pull 9 mobs would be dope. Like reverse bolstering lol

[dusky canopy]

People complain about spiteful

Bolstering

Sanguine

Storming

Explosives

[civic girder]

Every affix

[dusky canopy]

See the trend?

[sick sentinel]

spiteful aint nothin, just roots and mash AOE

[prisma crane]

yea all of those suck

[vast goblet]

then theyre doing a good job

[sand mason]

Nuke affix where If mobs don’t die in x seconds it blows up

[ocean yoke]

brother people will complain about literally anything you put in

[reef pulsar]

blazebinders hoof worth using or no?

[dusky canopy]

Any thing that is only negative yes

[vast goblet]

people hate thundering

[strong forum]

its one of the better m+ trinkets ye

[dusky canopy]

If a negative affix rewards you for outplaying it

[modern brook]

people complain about sanguine?

[dusky canopy]

It’s a W

[vast goblet]

yet you get a buff from it

[dusky canopy]

At least imo

[reef pulsar]

tyty

[prisma crane]

i do when blizz makes 15 mobs types that don't move

[vast goblet]

displacements my dude

[dusky canopy]

I think those of us who regularly play at the high end don’t realize how much of a hindrance some of the affixes are for the average player

[vast goblet]

^

but high end isnt for the average player

[topaz field]

they certainly do

[stable valve]

Neat idea at first glance, but how you deal with it is the same. Mobs have to be cleaved down equally

[topaz field]

thats why a lot of high end gamers play exactly 2 weeks

[dusky canopy]

It is not witch is fair but the goal in wow is player power

And theirs only one way to gain it

[vast goblet]

average player doesnt need bid ilvl capped gear to do their average content

bis*

[dusky canopy]

Also a fair point

[topaz field]

i mean its not really hard to create better affix combinations it really is not if u use your brain react to feedback and test it a lot and if u cant do that just remove affixes

[prisma crane]

such a perfect point

[dusky canopy]

It still doesn’t change the fact that everyone wants to be max ilvl

It feels good

By no means advocating for brain dead “challenges”

[prisma crane]

just look at the first 2 wks of DF, first combo was only bad cuz undergeared tanks, but second was the worst possible combo for healers you can have

[dusky canopy]

Just think certain design philosophy could improve significantly

[prisma crane]

keys scale infinitely, why have only annoying shit to slow us down?

[dusky canopy]

Exactly my point

Don’t hear to much excitement for affixes

[prisma crane]

well my point imo, is to remove ALL of the annoying shit, and make M+ have fun weeks instead of shit wks

[tame jasper]

like stipid RPG dialogs in m+ xD

[dusky canopy]

It’s always “what annoying thing do I have to deal with this week” “oh great…”

[lime urchin]

could you think of some examples of affixes?

[prisma crane]

you'll still have a best push week, that will ALWAYS happen, but at least instead of wow this wk is so bad i dont even want to play, its more like wow that week isnt the best, so ill just play a bit

[dusky canopy]

That’s exactly it roirin

Not an easy task

In fact

Impossible to please all

[prisma crane]

honestly wish i could, i've had some ideas but i think they're bad, but teh devs can be creative, stuff like the pillars in BFA that allowed us to effectively stealth was super awesome for creativity in keys

[sick sentinel]

the annoying thing is when a guy casts magic bolt 17 times, and nobodies kicking them cuz hes just chain casting

[lime urchin]

I am not sure if the affixes should be a 'boost' or a 'burden'

[prisma crane]

worse when its a mob that has 2 casts and you kick one and they just swap to another

[dusky canopy]

All though in general I think the whole “kiss curse” is the direction that I would like to see them go

[modern brook]

smh

people have literally only bitched about every kiss/curse seasonal we ever had

[dusky canopy]

Imagine explosive orbs giving you 1% haste for X seconds

[sick sentinel]

best is, you charge in, SC, hes immune to charge, and then, you pummel his nature spell, hes locked out, but now hes casting frost crap

[dusky canopy]

As an example

[modern brook]

the only affix everyone agrees owned was hauting or whatever

cause it let aoe be stupid

[atomic vector]

is there currently a best race for prot warrior atm?

[sick sentinel]

hes not locked out of his second school of magic

[prisma crane]

players generally liked the pillars, as well as the last one of SL

[topaz field]

do u remember season 3 of BFA?

[sand mason]

Vulpera

[modern brook]

dwarf/DID for Allies, Dog people for horde; truly doesnt matter at the end of the day

[topaz field]

if u didnt run 5 Nelf u could time keys 3 levels lower

[atomic vector]

oh word ty!

[dusky canopy]

Idk man prideful for example was only disliked because it was locked to 20% intervals

[modern brook]

pillars have no place in current dungeon design

there are no skips

[dusky canopy]

Imagine if it wasn’t in some way

[sand mason]

Bring back reaping. That one owned

[prisma crane]

you said people bitched about it, that affix was overall well received and viewed as among the best seasonal affixes

reaping sucks w/ target cap

[dusky canopy]

But there could be with more packs added

[sand mason]

spawning spider boss on last boss of under rot was fun af

[modern brook]

yeah cause there was no curse on that affix

[floral stream]

Quick question: Is there a list for M+ on what important spells I can and should reflect?

[modern brook]

it was "yeah we fucked up and made shroud way too relevent in BFA dungeons"

[lime urchin]

yea but you are talking about seasonal affixes only now, but what about standard affxies, that are a boost instead of a burden

[mossy crescent]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vS26lkSc_eaulHX7-UY8Uu-7DAHvkScxh3npd0kQn3uvvWsgsQm9ducLUi4R2mb7ieNluVilyq5sQe5/pubhtml#

[lime urchin]

like someone said, explosives give you 1% haste or something

[prisma crane]

the curse was an extra mob that wasnt the easiest to kill that took time, but yea, overall it was a net gain, esp for groups that didnt have a regular rogue

[modern brook]

it gave % and was a skip

what a spooky curse

[floral stream]

Cheers

[plush tendon]

Whatever seasonal affix gives my healer mana back, im happy

[ocean yoke]

Sounds like the same borrowed power the game is moving away from and massive Stat inflation

[modern brook]

My point is just

people are gunna bitch about anything that makes them play

[prisma crane]

ok, so lesson learned, people enjoy not shitty affixes

[modern brook]

full stop

[prisma crane]

disagree

[lime urchin]

I dont think some burden-affixes are bad

[plush tendon]

I actually dont find thundering that bad

[prisma crane]

"that makes them play" fuck off, ppl want to play, people dont want to be annoyed

why do you think they have CC DR in PvP and it's STILL bad for some players

[inland raft]

Thundering isnt bad its just boring af

[plush tendon]

most affix seem fine

[inland raft]

Thats the prob with it

[dusky canopy]

Challenge is good

Annoying is not

[plush tendon]

better then S1 BFA

and S3 BFA

[inland raft]

Infested is def the worse affix ever made

[plush tendon]

maybe not reaping or S4 good

but Id rather have a boring but fine affix for S1

[prisma crane]

and btw, its not "challenging" to slow down in a dungeon, it's just annoying

sorry, to be forced to slow down

[plush tendon]

S3 BFA is a close second imo

[inland raft]

True but still second

[plush tendon]

but yea, those two seasonals were terribad

S4 BFA was my fav

[modern brook]

s3 was worse because they had 2 seasonals to figure it out and still chose to do it

[lime urchin]

I think there is a lil bit more nuance to that. if an affix would increase difficulty in some pulls, or requires more creativity in some pulls, which would slow you down a bit, would be a big problem imo

[prisma crane]

thundering could be better if they just gave it mana/resource gen as well

[inland raft]

Thundering got a lot better with the 3 negative/tank always negative change not being forced to risk killing your melee in cleave heavy packs goes a long ways

[prisma crane]

sure, but not being able to chain pulls, or worrying about pulling a room because of 100x orbs isnt fun

[modern brook]

adding haste to explosives (as was previously mentioned in chat) doesnt make it challenging, it just makes people complain about having to kill explosives for haste.

[prisma crane]

never said i liked that idea

i hate explosives altogether

[modern brook]

TRue and real

[inland raft]

Id rather teeming brought back over explosive tbh and i hated teeming

[uneven ice]

Hi! Anyone have to modifier macro for pummel on focus, and if i don't have one pummel on target?

[prisma crane]

people like big pulls, blizz just needs to embrace that

[lime urchin]

yea I agree

[prisma crane]

most people's favorite pull is in AA

and i wonder why...

[modern brook]

less about the idea, more about the concept overall

[plush tendon]

naw dude

the 3 pack at the start of SBG

[lime urchin]

yea but it's tricky to balance that out, I mean you wouldnt want 8 dungeons where you just do 4 massive pulls and then dungeon is finished

[plush tendon]

best pull

[inland raft]

Blizzard wants to capture that wonder of pulling mobs one at a time from vanilla leveling

[modern brook]

current affix is 30% damage for the entire group, and you have to walk next to someone once every 90s

and people are complaining about it

[topaz field]

complete dogshit affix for real

i can create a better one in 25 seconds

so uninspiring design

[prisma crane]

because they pair it with the most areas of denial and cleave the game has ever seen

thundering itself is w/e, but DF has something that forces your movement one way or another every 3 seconds

[inland raft]

Well tbf its having to walk next to someone in dungeons designed around swirlies/aoe stuns/aoedamage/frontals/etc thats what got a lot of people frustrated

[topaz field]

plus the fact it triggers while out of combat because a lot of abilities keep in in combat for over 10 years because of lazy bug fixing

jsut tilting

[modern brook]

i mean

yall are saying this

like it isnt proving my point

[prisma crane]

that annoying shit is annoying?

i can promise you if you added thundering in BFA or SL it wouldnt have been received as poorly

[modern brook]

that people will always complain about the annyance part of an affix

[prisma crane]

and you're being willfully naive if you don't see why

[topaz field]

i dont think anyone complains about bursting or vulcanic

[amber siren]

the annoyance part is fine if it's managed rather than just thrown in without consideration about how it interacts with the dungeon

[prisma crane]

like sanguine in grimrail

[topaz field]

i think many people me included can confirm if u die to bursting or volcano it is 100 % your fault

[amber siren]

[prisma crane]

explosives on the stupid fairy in mists

or just how explosives can show up 1 at a time for like 10 seconds on a pull with 6 mobs and then i pull 4 mobs and i get 15 in 5 seconds

playing fucking whackamole with every global

[amber siren]

my favourite so far is taking thundering swirly damage while shielding during ragnarok

like sure its not going to kill me

but it feels dumb as hell

[prisma crane]

going to add to my loathing of explosives

imo, an aoe spell should be able to hit them if you are targeting it

[tropic tangle]

agree

[prisma crane]

needing to SS an explosive feels like ass

[modern brook]

Hard agree

[tropic tangle]

should be able to target and hit with rev for sure

[prisma crane]

yea like fine, i get it, they want to make things shitty, so we cant just blanket aoe them down

[modern brook]

In current world u can just aa them tbh esp with all the attack speed

[prisma crane]

but at least let those spells hit when targeting

sure, and its easier if you're far and you just HT them

but its still shit

remove min range on HT too while we're at it

[tropic tangle]

honestly half the time targeting is the hard part of it, need a whole ass weak aura to make it not feel garbo

[prisma crane]

and GCD on demo shout

nameplate shuffling is awful

they need to find a way to fix that

as well as mobs that walk behind you as you're standing still

looking at you miniboss at end of CoS...

[tropic tangle]

pathing is a whole other can

how many times have you done small micro moves in HoV and the cleave mobs turn 180 and walk backwards two steps so they can move forward to you

[prisma crane]

exactly

they make positioning matter, and all this shit, but when i get stuff where i need it it just moves

which, btw, for a bad player, negatively affects them even more (esp as a warrior) because we cant block then

[inland raft]

Nameplat shuffling is bad and its sad that back in the day nameplates were better and would clamp on top of eaxh other in a neat column

[lime urchin]

ok, give us one then?

[prisma crane]

i think that was more of a figure of speech of how relatively lazy thundering feels

[errant brook]

"as well as mobs that walk behind you as you're standing still"

This has been pissing me off for years.

[prisma crane]

it started in WoD if you're curious

[sand mason]

I just got my first whetstone yesterday. Worth dumping all my valor to get it to 415 this week?

[lavish oracle]

The mobs that do the little shuffle piss me off

[wet osprey]

i feel like prot has so many skills, any macros or ways to save skills?

[prisma crane]

some dont even shuffle anymore, they jsut full on walk around you

[sand mason]

I was going to get out of my 408 tier glvoes and upgrade the SMBG gloves to 415 for the haste but whet might be turbo??

[cloud umbra]

nothing like trying to take a step back to reposition the mob and they move 4 steps turn 90 degrees and are behind you now

[errant brook]

^----This

[prisma crane]

not too many, ideally we dont want to macro too much

stances though

and charge/intercept are two

[lavish oracle]

@sand mason I'd sim it

[wet osprey]

this shit has more skills than my resto dudu

[inland raft]

Stance macro and ip/ss macro

[pale rock]

How do Prot Warrior and Prot Pally compare?

[modern brook]

ip/ss doesnt save you a binding

[prisma crane]

that second one doesnt save a binding

[inland raft]

True

[lavish oracle]

Is there a stance macro here somewhere? I keep forgetting to do it

[prisma crane]

one is a warrior, the other is a paladin

[inland raft]

Not really much in way of binding to cut out

[errant brook]

I just made my Stance Bar ginormous. Easy click.

[prisma crane]

pins

[lavish oracle]

Sick

[wet osprey]

whats the stance macro used for?

[lavish oracle]

Toggle between the 2 rather than 2 separate binds

[modern brook]

the stance macro makes it so pressing it will swap stances rather than deactivating the stance

or having to have a bind for each

[wet osprey]

gotcha

[modern brook]

the ip/ss macro is for sniping resets or something from aa

[lavish oracle]

Really just saves me from ever having to press alt + ~

[lusty tiger]

It would be nice if stances didn’t toggle off though (for me who likes 2 separate keybinds)

[prisma crane]

i currently dont have either bound and sometimes i'll drop stances, idk how

[lusty tiger]

Switching spec page

[pale rock]

In terms of difficulty and surviveability ?

[plush tendon]

Prot Paladin more difficult

[prisma crane]

lol sorry, was just fucking around, ppl today would say warriors are easier and stronger

[plush tendon]

Warrior overall more tanky, but Paladin has a lot of tricks in their bag

[prisma crane]

but paladins have more tools that can help a group

[plush tendon]

like bubble taunt, lots of kicks

heals

[lusty tiger]

Pally more difficult?

[plush tendon]

100%

[lusty tiger]

If u had the 5 man beacon you would literally be a holy pala

[plush tendon]

to play Prot Paladin optimally is probably one of the harder tanks to master

[modern brook]

this was happening o me and it turns out i was just fat fingering the default stance bar binds

[lusty tiger]

I play them in pvp so maybe my perspective is jaded

[modern brook]

prot pally does no damage and is squishier than warrior

[lusty tiger]

But tanking on a pally felt so free

[modern brook]

they do have like a 60s cheat death

[lusty tiger]

And can be a second healer

[plush tendon]

45 second

[lusty tiger]

And can sac THE healer

[modern brook]

if they're wogging they're not keeping sotr up tbh

[lusty tiger]

And have a activate able cheat death

[plush tendon]

I mean, what key level you doing?

or is this just PVP stuff

[lusty tiger]

+12 at like 379 ilvl

On my pally

[prisma crane]

interesting, i dont even know what they are lol, time to try to remember this and unbind them later on

[modern brook]

alt+1234etc

[pale rock]

Another tank spec i want the try is Veg. DH i wonder how difficult that one will be

[modern brook]

vdh is uhh fine

[lusty tiger]

I’ve been leveling a monk and it is very neato

[modern brook]

i would dscribe it as "so mid i havent even thought about it in a month"

[plush tendon]

if you like VDH, then its fine

[lusty tiger]

DH fun falls off fast for me every time I play it

[plush tendon]

but havoc is just so stupid strong

that like... .why bring a VDH>

[modern brook]

every DH player is a havoc player

they play vdh so they can keep playinh dh when havoc is stinky

this is an immutable truth

[lusty tiger]

Except my previous raidleader

He was a vdh main

[modern brook]

haVoc yeah

[lusty tiger]

Never saw him spec havoc in the 4 years I’ve known him

[pale rock]

Brewmaster is to much buttons for my clumsy hands

[lusty tiger]

It is incredibly fun the way you can pull on brewmaster

[plush tendon]

Brewmaster button bloat is kind of a problem

[lusty tiger]

Just dropping rushing jade wind seemed to have made it feel significantly better

[plush tendon]

Otherwise, they seem to be in a ok place right now

[lusty tiger]

Since the resonant fist nerf I was told doing that is viable

[proven tide]

guys does anyone have a link to the MYthic+ automarker WA please?

[modern brook]

wago

[proven tide]

any specific one? just the dragonflight one? i tested it out and couldnt get it to work

[amber siren]

https://wago.io/1ctv3b91K this is the one Im using, seems to be fine

[proven tide]

ty

[sleek maple]

Hey just wondering what the name of the warrior WA is in my UI. All of my WAs were deleted and I couldn't find this WA when I was searching under prot warrior.

[plush tendon]

Luxthos

[sleek maple]

Oh is it? Man I'm stupid

Thanks

Is there a good way to backup WAs? I've lost so many. I didn't know they could just poof

[amber siren]

You can backup their export strings to a notepad document I guess?

[sleek maple]

Yea I guess. Thanks!

[amber siren]

[edgy bone]

What trinkets are you guys using this week for Tyrannical bangers

[plush tendon]

Whetstone

and Ruby

if i dont get a Icon for my box

[edgy bone]

@plush tendon that won't protect you from temple third boss

He gonna chew you up

And spit you oit

Out

[plush tendon]

why would I need a trinket for that?

[edgy bone]

Cuz it hits so hard

[plush tendon]

just follow Plka's guide

[amber siren]

It’s not the hit that kills you it’s the healing absorb, there’s no trinket that fixes what CDs and a decent healer can do

[short elk]

What’s an ideal cpm?

[sand mason]

Getting hit 6 times in a fight?! omfg. I aim for 3 hits and pray to jesus on the 4th. I guess thats fort...

Are we expecting 5-6 this week on tyra??

Gonna need to proc 2 praydge to jesus on that fight lmfao

[plush tendon]

dpeending on key level

21 probably 3-4

[sand mason]

I was taking 3 on 22 fort. The 4th was always sus

[plush tendon]

yea, proper plannng of CDs is how you get through Jade

health pot is goated here as well

[sand mason]

yeah, I play with a lock and rock is strong

[plush tendon]

yea, you can use both then!

[sand mason]

Normally I LS, Rock, Healthpot to help my healer and the 4th we're tapped

[amber siren]

Oh yeah I forgot this is the calm before the ‘what should I pick in my vault’

[errant brook]

#Buyersremorse

[sick sentinel]

yeah that too

invb4 picture + "what do i take guys???"

[modern brook]

anyone not answering tokens is an enabler tbh

[sick sentinel]

how do you mean answering tokens, they buy after you list? i need ilvl personally, garunteed a 405 or 408 this week

[tropic tangle]

he means if you're giving real advice, you're only encouraging people to continue posting their vaults asking for advice

[crystal mauve]

Do we know the interaction of Burgeoning Seed and the Jade strike? Does it count as healing like Last stand does maybe?

[tender quartz]

what is that what i hear that evokers

can take off every 2nd bleed on crawth?

[sick sentinel]

4th

its a 1 m cd and the debuff is 15 seconds

[tender quartz]

thansk

his external?

or somethign else

[sick sentinel]

so, you plan to stagger cd's and externals and healing for 3 of them

[modern brook]

yeah this is #protection

we only complain about pugs here

[sick sentinel]

4th is free

[rough egret]

Where are the sexy vault pics?

[tropic tangle]

Thought I had an ez 19 CoS last night, but boy did the DPS have a different idea.

[jagged pier]

please no

sim first

ask question later

[sand mason]

Okay lets say a collection prayer

Dear RNJesus, Please give me 424 Tier, a fat ass 421 whet stone or various 421s with sockets.

Amen

[sick sentinel]

pugs is, you won't believe it until you go

[plush tendon]

vault vaults vaults

[jagged pier]

no no no

[sand mason]

Servers going up soon it seemdge

[plush tendon]

this is like Rat Key Monday

[sick sentinel]

you think, not possible, but its true....

that's the scary part

[cinder storm]

[rough egret]

I forgot to swap off spellblock, but it ended up being a good call in AV

[sick sentinel]

call it rat key monday all u want

[vocal bison]

hey guys, let's skip the first alarm pillar ok? Dps proceeds to ass pull everything 1 minute in

[sick sentinel]

i woke up at 630 am, did 13 cos and 13 AV both 1 chest

[tropic tangle]

Worse than that man, I did the most boring standard route possible.

[sick sentinel]

cuz i was struggling with them bad last night

[rough egret]

I have 17cos to do

[lone eagle]

Did some killer keys on my brew

[plush tendon]

Its a very important day for my guild

[lone eagle]

350 equipped, knocked out some 16s, a 19 and a 20

[solid granite]

Missed a 23 CoS by 30secs this week. Really sad

[rough egret]

Ideally time it and do next one 😄 so i will have 2x418 slots

[plush tendon]

aka, rat key monday

[lone eagle]

friend sent this to me from their discord 😆

[sick sentinel]

i only got 1 408 and 2 405's

[lone eagle]

had 270k hp

[sick sentinel]

but any of those are massive upgrades fo anything i have equipped, even 2 h

[tropic tangle]

Mage dies after first boss, afks, we move to clear more trash thinking he DC'd. He releases, spawns in the second boss area and proceeds to die 3 times trying invis past the see invis bridge patrol

[lone eagle]

had to CD every void slash in the 20 SMBG

[jagged pier]

yer its monk

fucking busted

[amber siren]

Unsure on that one, i would still lean towards probably not worth it even if it does

[jagged pier]

ppl didnt believe me when i said it was

probs had a evoker healer

[tropic tangle]

DH dies 3 times to the puddle from the construct on the last pull before 2nd boss

[lone eagle]

had a disc priest

[rough egret]

But i guess that other 4 ppl there werent 350 🙂

[tropic tangle]

We miss the timer by 24 seconds

[cinder storm]

for some reason people forget naowh also cleared a 20cos with a naked brew too, they all remember only the warrior

[vocal bison]

[sonic eagle]

Is it better to open the vault as arms / fury / prot?

i feel like if I have a shield and sword already i should be doing that?

[lone eagle]

ran the 20 SMBG with my disc buddy on my 350 equipped monk; did the 19 CoS, 16 AA and 16 AV with my rdruid buddy

[jagged pier]

BECAUSE WARRIOR IS OP

REEEEEEEEEEEEE

[cinder storm]

[amber siren]

@jagged pier any idea if burgeoning seed max hp increase heals like last stand?

[jagged pier]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/801876810261463041.gif?size=96&quality=lossless

[jagged pier]

no idea but that trinket is not good for us

[amber siren]

Yeah that’s pretty much what I was thinking anyway

[solid granite]

Did an 18 ToJS on my Guardian, without set & craft gear. It aint that hard (for me, healer died of a heart attack tho)

[rough egret]

😄

[lone eagle]

Bear honestly pretty decent at Temple

There's a couple pain points (last pull), but you just have to softkite it

3rd boss is pretty nice on my guardian

just frenzied regen every 2nd phase hit

[sick sentinel]

i got a, im not exactly sure, but i want to say 395? it was a 13 or 14, i got the haste polearm

[rough egret]

I got socketed ring from AV 🙂

Can you use the socket thing from merit tokens on crafted belt?

[sick sentinel]

i might be in the game

[rough egret]

Game over

[sonic eagle]

servers are up

fyi

[sick sentinel]

im loadin, but it sesms like its gunna time me out make me do it again

im area 52, so its jam packed

[rough egret]

Brace yourself

[sick sentinel]

"which vault do i take"

is coming

[rough egret]

Yap

[sick sentinel]

IM INNNN

[rough egret]

My favourite show

[sick sentinel]

open as fury?

[uneven mason]

Bruh

Don't open at all

[sand mason]

Rnjesus... Please... Ive seen what youve done for others....

[sand mason]

Cant lose if you dnt play!

[mild river]

Question: about a boot item, ilv > all,right? Mine is a 418 haste/versa and vault is a 421 versa/mastery

[craggy kelp]

do we use ruby whelp shell?

[uneven mason]

Yes, ilvl

[heady wedge]

hey, what is the max duration of shield block before caping pls ? 8*2=16 sec ?

[sick sentinel]

i have the husk

[mild river]

Ty

[sick sentinel]

i'lll be the first

[stable valve]

408 to 421 tier chest or whetstone?

[rough egret]

Oof

[stable valve]

I have 411 grieftorch, 408 boon, 398 shell

[restive crown]

i got 405 rings, 408 boots, and 402 trinkets on me nw, which should i go for?

[sick sentinel]

i might pick up that weapon incase i need to go fury

[rough egret]

Hoof

[sick sentinel]

head has haste for set right

cuz i need 1 more for 4/4

[rough egret]

You can catalyst

1more item this week

[sick sentinel]

cuz its i take that weapon, or i take the cloak crit haste mine is the blackdragon rep ones

[brisk flax]

No complaints

[rough egret]

I would take stone

[sand mason]

415 tier w/ avoidance or 421 tier?

[rough egret]

Rly? 😄

Item lvl is king

Avoidance is stat for DPSers

[analog swift]

windfury totem sucks for prot war right?

and our enhance shouldn't have to run it

[spare turret]

how good/bad is Burgeoning Seed?

[naive panther]

yeah buddy, tough decision, have 402 pants and no 421s, trinkets I am using 405 blaze with 408 all totem

[sick sentinel]

good for dungeon

[rough egret]

Bad

[spare turret]

this are my trinkets, i have no luck with CoS trinket

[analog swift]

what about raid? The new sims show it being doggy poopy

[sick sentinel]

no, bad for raid

[quiet monolith]

please dads, i come seeking guidance from you all.

[slow harbor]

is the fire dmg ring, Diurna's Seal, particularly good for us or ?

[vast goblet]

408 decoration of flame or 415 ruby shell?

[sick sentinel]

i don't do the simming thing

i don't read the adventure guide, i just attack shit

[lament zealot]

Incarnate right?

[naive panther]

absorb ring is ok

[blazing condor]

totem is hella good for m+

[wide dragon]

I would take the ring personally, but I have a 408 icon

the vers on the icon is solid

[rugged sable]

As a M+ only Prot warrior do we open as Prot or open as fury?

[rough egret]

Im runing 5% vers

Huge

[oak echo]

either fury or arms in almost all cases depending on if you need a 1h weapon

[rough egret]

Do you need a shield?

[rugged sable]

Have 418 crafted

[rough egret]

Then i would fish in fury

[noble loom]

418 Seal of filialy duty(replaces 405), 408 incarnate(replaces 395) or 415 horn of valor? right now i run decoration and rumbling ruby

[brisk flax]

duhhhh lol

[full venture]

is grieftorch worth grabbing?

[rough egret]

For 1h + dps trinkets

[brisk flax]

Absolutely is

[livid aurora]

Quick in between question: what lootspec do I want to open my vault as?

[brisk flax]

Do you need a shield Phacoid? If not then Arms or Fury

[rugged sable]

answered just above your post

[uneven mason]

Do you have a good shield

[wide dragon]

20ilvl upgrade on the chest, I already have a 411 Grieftorch and 408 icon. So its between new icon and chest id imagine. I feel like its chest, but I wanted verification

[full venture]

@brisk flax or should i upgrade my 395 chest piece to 418

[uneven mason]

That's quite the jump

[brisk flax]

idk what the rest of your gear looks like, id definitely open vault and see what you get first

[uneven mason]

Chest is a lot of stats

[brisk flax]

I think now with Bottles available i'd prio vault gear and just wait for a bottle for spark

[full venture]

true but my chances of getting grief torch in a pug are zero

[brisk flax]

Haste Crit is not bad

Just move your other stats around

[deft socket]

@vale glacier ilvl over stats on shield

[brisk flax]

I try to have a decent bit of both Vers and Crit

Crit for the Parry chance, and Vers to smooth the damage a bit when parry fails

[noble loom]

418 Seal of filialy duty(replaces 405), 408 incarnate(replaces 395) or 415 horn of valor? right now i run decoration and rumbling ruby

[brisk flax]

Do you have incarnate at all?

[noble loom]

yes 395 vers

dont use it tho lol

[brisk flax]

Would you use the 408? and are there other in your raid that use the icon?

[noble loom]

i pug, so typically

[proud dock]

can someone remind me the idea behind replacing cobalt rings. is it simply up to sims cuz i have 421 options in vault

[brisk flax]

Id say take the icon personally, ring is great and all but no main stat on rings anyways

[noble loom]

got it, thank you ❤️

[viral elk]

up to sims

[proud dock]

thanks

[vast goblet]

bloodmallet a good chart to go off for bis trinkets?

[brisk flax]

np, sucks we cant sim DTPS accurately

[balmy narwhal]

Is this trinket good?

[brisk flax]

Not currently

[viral elk]

for m+, yes

procs on raid bosses are very seldom

[round pendant]

Do I have to change my loot spec at Diurna if I want the grieftorch?

[oak echo]

long term do we prefer tier helm or gloves? i have 421 helm in vault but i also have 421 pants i could take and convert and they sim super close to each other. current helm is high haste/mastery

[balmy narwhal]

Would decoration of flame be better eventually? I have only 2 piece from tier set, the vault has 1 tier piece and I can do revival to get all 4. Should I go for tier set or this trinket? I tend to do mostly M+

[naive panther]

421 tier legs, or 421 blazebinder trinket?

both sim about same

pants higher in aoe, trinket little ahead in st

or i hold out for whetstone, but never getting it from vault cause always prot for shield

[remote trout]

Seal or hands? Currently rocking 382 raidfinder tier hands and 392 signet along with 405 autoattack ring. I do have a primal infusion I can use on my current crafted signet

[cinder storm]

I am 90% sure I'll take chest but I'm tempted with grieftorch

[spice anchor]

feels bad made 418 shield last week loot 421 shield this week

[worldly wing]

is this 421 gift worth taking over the scale? my other option is a 421 belt but i currently have a 415 with leech on it

[brisk dock]

Is there a world where I should be opening this vault in Fury/Arms trying for DPS trinkets since I don't need weapon or shield?

[proud dock]

wat ilvl cutoff to catalyst into mythic tier pce?

[lilac storm]

Can u help me pls? idk which 1 should i pick, i've all that tier sets, but Shoulder 398, legs 389 and head 389 socket

[viral elk]

For m+, I'd take it. What ilvl is the tier? Can you get a similar ilvl from revival?

[balmy narwhal]

Same Ilvl 408

[warm plinth]

👋

[cloud umbra]

is the play to run arms for the vault?

[cinder storm]

scale is meh, I'd take any other trinket over it

[hidden ether]

I have a 389 strike twice, can’t decide if I wanna craft a better one or upgrade that with valor.

[uneven mason]

As long as you have a good shield

[elfin frost]

100 dps difference between the 2 items ... 26 ilvl upgrade for ring ... 13 iLvl upgrade for tier pants (still have 3 piece with tier swap) ... what do you guys think?

[warm plinth]

That's a lot of Valor to spend upgrading that

[warm plinth]

If you already have high ilevel shield and weapon, sure

[uneven mason]

Group finder

[mental flax]

Is a 421 ring better than a 415 ring with leech (same ring)?

[warm plinth]

There's no trick

It's random

? There was never a trick

It was coincidence

[mental flax]

You can run M0 (or M+) and just not pick up the key, and keep running til you get the key you want

[uneven mason]

I'd like you to Google sample bias in statistics

[civic junco]

How much haste are we trying to meet ideally? When do the diminishing returns start to affect what 2ndery we want

[warm plinth]

40% from rating

[jagged pier]

40% unbuffed

[warm plinth]

That seems like a lot of effort to pick a key

I didn't know about that though

[pallid quiver]

But you gotta smash dem SBG's, Ghash

[timid thorn]

Anyone care to assist with vault loot?

[civic junco]

thx

[mental flax]

You can view it, you just can't select something

[uneven mason]

So that's not selecting a key but rather just giving yourself multiple chances to get the keys you want

[pallid quiver]

i assume it's useful for push groups trying to find a key for a specific dungeon they want to push, but i don't play like that so

[warm plinth]

And it would still be random. Like you could do all the m0s and still not get the key you want lol

Interesting tactic though to be sure

[mental flax]

You can do M+ too

[uneven mason]

Running m0 to get a specific key...

Yeah just run the keys

[lunar solar]

Seal of Diruna (408), or replace 389 tier legs with 415 tier legs?

[civic junco]

just from rating how much is that like 5k? not or including in to the fray?

[slow lake]

is an enduring scale 408 way better than a 389 decoration of flame ?

[fallen pulsar]

Seal, then get legs with catalyst and valor

Ezpz

[warm plinth]

6,970 I believe. Not including ItF; that's not rating

[timid thorn]

Current Gear - Drops i got anyone care to halp?

[topaz raptor]

the seal of fillial duty ring seems like only one worth picking this week? already have peaks of walking mountain the eye of the vengeful hurricane seems is raid bis but isnt it worse than elemental lariat?

[timid thorn]

I think is basically trinkets vs rings

[tame jungle]

hi guys, last 2 breakers in AV, its enough with priest mind sooth to pass them if you walk on th edge?=

[tulip kelp]

I'm at 3p... have 421 chest and 415 legs I can catalyst, which would you guys catalyst? Legs right?

[timid thorn]

lol my drop is similar and dont know what to pick either

[fallen pulsar]

Chest has good stats too iirc

Chest tier

[lunar solar]

yeah...was thinking that. I already have belt and trinket to proc ring

[topaz raptor]

it has to be the ring

[lunar solar]

with valor maxed I can get legs to 408 right now

[fallen pulsar]

Ring is a rare raid drop so more worth imo now that we have catalyst

[topaz raptor]

havent seen anyone say elemental lariat is worse of eye of vengeful hurricane

[timid thorn]

How does the warrior does fire dmg? Anyone know? for that ring proc

[fallen pulsar]

Belt

Frostfire belt

[topaz raptor]

oo

[fallen pulsar]

Or deco of flame

But thats long between casts

[clever heart]

Hello prot overlords. I see we are already talking the fire rings. I have some Question for the math nerd theory crafters. Once you have both fire rings from Raid, besides the Waist embelishment do we need any other fire damage sources to proc the rings?
idk the cooldown of the rings effects or if the waist can solo proc the rings enough.
Additionally, if i already have 411 rings crit/haste, are the raid fire rings still an upgrade @ heroic item lvl ?

[dusky canopy]

I’m still trying to justify a ring that’s better than cobalt shield

Just can’t give up the 10% overall healing

[fallen pulsar]

Defensively? I think just the brood ring. Offensively? Beeg stats are better

[limber flame]

got 418 crafted shoulders and 418 wep, its gotta be wep right

[fallen pulsar]

Weapon for sure

Strike twice is bis

[limber flame]

i thought academy wep is bis

[fallen pulsar]

Strike has free embellishment

[dusky canopy]

Yeah Nando I know have seen brood ring for the last 3 weeks

[fallen pulsar]

Essentially

[dusky canopy]

421 strike twice

My man

[undone verge]

I think strike twice is slightly better

[fallen pulsar]

Just thinking that in terms of defensives, not really much ring options. Just cobalt and brood I think

[topaz raptor]

so should i use the two that are higher item level or go by the trinket rankings without regard to i lvl

[dusky canopy]

Yeah it’s just to much healing value to give up imo, gotta have at least one of the rings

[fallen pulsar]

Sim, but also be sure to train the whelp enough

[fallen pulsar]

Depends on the content, I dont need it at all for raid (heroic), and I havent felt like it wouldve made a difference for me on higher keys

[fickle shoal]

Is there a bis list anywhere ?

[fallen pulsar]

But maybe if you’re going super high

[topaz raptor]

yeah its trained fully with the fire bolt.

[topaz raptor]

https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classes/warrior/protection/bis-gear

[fickle shoal]

Was just wondering cause this list doesn’t have strike twice as bis

[timid thorn]

x2

[fickle shoal]

Unless I’m blind

[plush tendon]

Strike Twice should be better

but sim to confirm

[hardy snow]

if someone named it "BiS list", it doesnt have to mean that this is actually real bis list 😉

[fallen pulsar]

I believe that list also is just worrying about perfect stat distribution on each item and doesnt take embellishments into account

[fickle shoal]

Yeah that’s why I was asking if there was another list

[woeful reef]

Is our 4pc bonus worth equipping a tier piece thats 16 ilvls lower? Have tier gloves from raid finder that are 382 but currently using 398 gloves. Clearly a dps loss on sim but does the 4pc provide enough value to make it worth it?

[fallen pulsar]

Like the bis sets there dont have any embellishment items

[hardy snow]

I assume every site like this have its own, wowhead, icyveins etc.

[toxic gyro]

It’s called raidbots, if you’re looking for best dps wise.

[limber flame]

god damn raidbots down bro

[fickle shoal]

Nah I was thinking survivability or I would just sim my gear

[amber siren]

people ddosing raidbots with their vaults

[limber flame]

its ok for M+ where the 4 piece is pretty good, for raid not so much