protection

[jagged pier]

okay so a few things prot doesnt heal we are a purely mitigation tank so we should be stopping damage before it happened instead of heal it like every other tank,
theres a fair few things wrong here looks at raz from talents to gameplay etc ill try breaking them down quickly

[hidden ether]

my brewmaster is the only tank i dont have above 60 atm

[shrewd saffron]

ty

[fallen pulsar]

we kinda heal with Indom :)))))

heehaw

[solar shadow]

A cash infusion can fix that quickly

You can vendor your prot gear and sell the gold for $$, use that to boost your Brewmaster

[shrewd saffron]

I guess i'm basing the healing / absorb comment solely on parse number, because even if the class doesn't "heal" much a 7 parse seems awfully low

[mighty valley]

all of his numbers are low tbh

[lusty tiger]

just practice at a training dummy a few mins every time he hops on and maybe a bit before raid

[shrewd saffron]

Well we actually solved one issue with him already, his shield block uptime was... bad

and it's getting better

But i'd love to have more concrete info on what else to do

[winter glade]

His talents are a big thing to fix. They are really bad and alot of it will fix it self with changes there

[pliant geyser]

so should i be semi-saving victory rush for when i get to like 80% hp or less, or using it on cd just about even in the 5-15%-ish missing ballpark?

[winter glade]

Ya hes rage dumping instead of shield

[viscid plaza]

oooh can you hook a brother up with that?

[pliant geyser]

can you share the weak aura

[fallen pulsar]

I dont use victory unless my HP is like below 50% or need it to clear a heal absorb

er, IV I guess since thats always talented

VR doesn't exist

[valid heart]

Hey guys. You know if they will uncap valor in 10.0.5?

[pliant geyser]

so you guys do try to semi-save it for a big chunk of missing health

[viscid plaza]

They will not.

[analog sparrow]

I do

[fallen pulsar]

not in the patch notes, so no

[valid heart]

Aight thanks guys 😀

[viscid plaza]

I don't use it unless I'm around 60% yeah, or 70% on grievous weeks

[analog sparrow]

Like if my healer is busy saving dps or dodging a mechanic and I get lowish, IV. If I used it on CD it would mostly be wasted

[jagged pier]

so talents arent a great choice for raid but they are alright his left tree is okay in general but pretty poor for raz his right side like disrupting shout and TLs kinda ass on raz in on most fights of the raid tbh
so all of these next few points kinda of relate to each other because of how the class works but ill try my best to explain them as I go along
so as we are purely mitigation we need to pay attention to lots of things most importantly Shield block, with hes talents he should just have 100% blocked hits like easy not even a challenge but he has around 70% on average which means 1 hes not paying attention to SB and not using correctly
point 2 his casts are low like all of them especially shield slam its our most important button hands down need to pressed on CD, like 16-19 CPM is a good range of casts hes at 9 look at this attempt i have open, so this means he is generating far less rage, so cant SB, or ignore pain or revenge all important, SS is even more important because of the talents hes running as when he SS's he extends his SB by 1 second so that ties into the low blocked hits, everything else is also just generally low CDs rav SC demo avatar they all need to be used on CD basically,
because his rage gen is so low through low casts hes spending all his rage on IP so not keeping SB up and not being able to revenge which isnt just damage is also a chance to proc SS so looping back into points 1 and 2 hes not wasting any rage but as hes not generating near enough just spamming the little resource he has incorrectly

and thats that basically

[pliant geyser]

oh speaking of rage wasted...... maybe im missing something but isnt wasted rage like a massive number due to the fact youre supposed to spam slam on CD in almost all cenarios which results in delaying use of the rage spenders so youre always at very high/overcapping most of the time?

[jagged pier]

no

u dump into IP

if u are going to overcapp from shield slam

it still fuels the anger management loop

[pliant geyser]

i havent paid attention but is IP a separate GCD than slam?

[mighty valley]

it's not on gcd

[fallen pulsar]

can he get 100% shield block without champions bulwark? Thought you need 3/4 shield block talents to maintain it 100%

[pliant geyser]

oh okay

[jagged pier]

yer ST we dont really care about that because u drop it in execute phase as u dont have the rage to execute and revenge

[mighty valley]

you can slam IP while doing your main rotation

[jagged pier]

good point

[pliant geyser]

interesting

[jagged pier]

but pretty much yer

because i was talking blocked hits

should still be very fucking ez

as u dont tank the boss all the time

[shrewd saffron]

ty king I will relate this

[earnest nymph]

tbf you don't need literal 100% SB uptime if you're on a fight where you're not tanking 100% of the time

[fallen pulsar]

I thought 100% SB is good for damage though

since it buffs shield slam

[jagged pier]

please can we STOP mixing uptime and blocked hits as the same thing

they are not

[fallen pulsar]

yee I get that

[earnest nymph]

I didn't, I was responding to the 100% message above

[jagged pier]

👍

[fallen pulsar]

for mitigation, you don't need it up all the time

[shrewd saffron]

the general gist, and please correct me if i'm wrong, is fix talents and shield slam more

[fallen pulsar]

but damagewise, I thought full uptime or close to it is better

[jagged pier]

more fix gameplay first

his talents are a bit meh

[warm plinth]

https://tenor.com/bDTXZ.gif

[jagged pier]

but not the bigger issue

[fallen pulsar]

yeah he needs to press buttons more in general and prio shield slam, talents will just make everything smoother

[shrewd saffron]

tyvm for the info, we've got our heroic clear thursday so I'll use that info to parse the logs. May come back with some more questions if that's ok

y'all have been helpful as hell

[warm plinth]

Seek and you shall find

[fallen pulsar]

we're always happy to help someone looking for help! 🙂

[shrewd saffron]

namaste~

[pliant geyser]

i hope that war isnt the pissy type, he might not like being told hes doing stuff wrong lol

[shrewd saffron]

he's actually very receptive to constructive criticism

[mighty valley]

if you're grey parsing in a mythic hopeful guild you have to be open to feedback

[pliant geyser]

oh nice, thats always good

[shrewd saffron]

i'm helping him and doing this because i don't want to replace him

[pliant geyser]

was it grey parse on healing or dps

[mighty valley]

both

[jagged pier]

i run this on raz but u need ot pay attention to SB even more with this because im running into the fray instead of heavy repercussions but ither can be swapped out HR is safer and less damage ITF is more damage but u need to be more comfortable

[shrewd saffron]

yes

[lusty tiger]

send him here in the future so he can learn to speak warrior

[fallen pulsar]

@jagged pier I do want to clear up my understanding of shield block uptime as a damage prio though. Do we really not care about it going down while not tanking boss?

[pliant geyser]

oh both?

[shrewd saffron]

that's the end goal

[mighty valley]

SB is always a dps upgrade but it's not always necessarily a bigger dps upgrade than the talents you're giving up to ensure 100% uptime

since you can easily get 100% blocked hits in raid without 100% uptime

[fallen pulsar]

yeah I get that bit

ideally while tanking you block all hits

[jagged pier]

well okay yes its more damage to have it up all the time BUT, in raid u usually run ITF because its more damage, so u cant have SB up all the time, so u need to make sure u use SB so that u ahve 2 stacks of it when u start tanking again, yes u can use it when not tanking to keep it up but u want 2 full stacks back just before u taunt so u have max uptime for mitigation u dont sacrifice defensiveness for damage

and that why its means u cover your whole time tanking most of the time

so u have very high blocked hits

but it takes practice

[fallen pulsar]

why not run bolster if you dont need spell block? Like I get it for rasz for example

[jagged pier]

but bolster isnt needed on most fights

tough is a dps gain

[fallen pulsar]

hmmm even over 100% shield slamming

[jagged pier]

i actually ran bolster on kurog because u do tank 100% of the time

and i didnt want to drop ITF

[fallen pulsar]

I guess yes which is why you run it

[shrewd saffron]

Again appreciate all of your time, have a good one!

[viscid plaza]

I'm new to parsing terminology, what'sa grey parse?

[fallen pulsar]

bottom 25 percentile

[queen mountain]

ruby whelpshell any good? and if yes which training should i do?

[viscid plaza]

Thanks

[jagged pier]

its okay

and ST damage

[mighty valley]

i have a baby brain and generally run HR on prog fights just so i don't have to think about it at all while learning the fight/doing calls etc

[jagged pier]

or haste or crit buff

[fallen pulsar]

25 or 20 percentile actually. dont remember

I run ITF bolster, but I might try itf + tough instead

at the end of the day, doing well as prot works regardless or HR or itf. I think this only starts to matter once you're trying to break into like 95% or higher parsing

[viscid plaza]

I've been playing with the idea of ITF+Tough myself, might run it tonight and see how I feel

[pliant geyser]

all this build talk is making me realize i should probably have a raid build.... ive just been using my m+ build

[viscid plaza]

being 42% haste is nice with ITF

[fallen pulsar]

[winter glade]

Monkey 😐

[fallen pulsar]

stormbolt and shockwave so in raid

[mighty valley]

the core isn't that different but there's a couple dump talents on most encounters

like ^^ those two

[pliant geyser]

i actually dont even have stormbolt

[winter glade]

what?!

[mighty valley]

you should prob have stormbolt for m+

[winter glade]

100% you should

[viscid plaza]

Absolutely should

[mighty valley]

if your group is stun heavy and you trust them, you can get away without it

but pugging? a billion percent

[winter glade]

even if they are stun heavy you should, there will always be a time to use it

This expo has alot of stun only interupts

[pliant geyser]

well with my current build its like a toss up between the 3 optional choices, at least for me, which are intervene/intimidating shout/stormbolt, but yeah i think ill switch to get storm bolt again

[mighty valley]

intervene is kinda low value

[pliant geyser]

i agree, so i dont use it

[mighty valley]

int shout/storm bolt both big value

[winter glade]

intervene is nice and all and a must have on halls but other than that its not great

[pliant geyser]

ive been picking shout

[fallen pulsar]

for the interrupt phase, did you/would you ever spec into intimidating shout to help clear? or did you have other people do that

I guess, idk I'd prefer it over stormbolt at least

[jagged pier]

not up everytime and me and my cotank go stand on our own

[fallen pulsar]

ah gotcha

storm comes back fast enough right

[jagged pier]

plus everyone else in the raid was taking aoe stuff

storms up for every 1

[fallen pulsar]

ye makes sense

[jagged pier]

now i have a monk co tank

[winter glade]

Just play a taurn 5head

[jagged pier]

so he just rings us

[fallen pulsar]

didnt think about the alignment

of how long it takes intimidate to come back

[jagged pier]

and i can go stop 2 that get missed if needed

[jagged pier]

stormbolt is 30 secs

shout is 1.5 mins

[fallen pulsar]

yeah makes sense

[mighty valley]

starting this week you have two monk tanks, gonna be real nice

[jagged pier]

no

[pliant geyser]

yeah but shout is super useful for aoe interrupts, especially if your pug group is super duper amazing at actually kicking casts /sarcasm

[jagged pier]

we have 1 monk tank

[mighty valley]

is your monk rerolling too or

[jagged pier]

what?

im a warrior

my co tank is a monk

[mighty valley]

joke about rerolling due to nerfs

joke: failed

moving on

[sick sentinel]

unrionically gonna do that in next set of nerfs

they didnt learn shit from last couple of seasons

[mighty valley]

they're gonna have to delete prot warrior before i main another tank

[arctic marten]

At how many targets does casting Thunder Clap > Shield Slam result in more damage?

[lusty tiger]

ik pallys are made fun of here but prot pal seems like a good alt tank no?- like for AV when im feeling lazy kinda angle

[jagged pier]

5

[sick sentinel]

DK prob

[lusty tiger]

i cant stand wheelchair

[spice totem]

Vdh for cultured ones

[jagged pier]

dk pala and monk are all just as good as warrior just slept on

[warm plinth]

idk why ppal would be made fun of; it's a fairly strong tank rn

[jagged pier]

veng i think as well

only druid is garbo

even with the rework

[winter glade]

Pally is insane, and they have more interupts than most DPS clases

[mighty valley]

pink class silly

[strong forum]

all tanks are fine, bear still a bit lacking

[lusty tiger]

other shield tank- but yea i agree it feels pretty strong

[mortal brook]

5 good tanks

[mortal brook]

nice to see

[mighty valley]

ghash silly

[lusty tiger]

sadge bearman

[uneven mason]

Gets class tree rework.....ignores 100% of community feedback while doing it..

[sick sentinel]

DK is strong because healers got kicked in the balls this season

[lusty tiger]

https://tenor.com/view/southpark-suck-my-balls-make-it-rain-gif-5004959

healers can

[fallen pulsar]

people do sleep on monk a lot

its kinda nuts

[sick sentinel]

like 7 out of 10 bricks ive seen are due to healers just not having enough thruput

its kinda cringe tbh

[blazing condor]

already at the point where ive only done 1 key this week

for vault

[sick sentinel]

feels like bad design

[fallen pulsar]

DK also has tons of sick utility. Wish we had a grip of some kind 😦

[lusty tiger]

if u get head, chest, or glove tier in the vault- ill have my 4pc today

[lusty tiger]

we used to

[uneven mason]

They had a choice, make healers op but nerf tanks to bfa levels

[sick sentinel]

or

[fallen pulsar]

used to 😦

[sick sentinel]

bring back legion meta

make everything a dps race

[lusty tiger]

in the prepatch

[uneven mason]

Or make tanks strong and healers have to work for their meals

[sick sentinel]

whats wrong with that

[fallen pulsar]

yeah I know I mean, I wish we currently did 😛

[mighty valley]

yeah man bring back kiting one thousand crabs for ten minutes

[lusty tiger]

a titanic throw option | three-way node with: titanic throw, gag order, scorpion hook

[uneven mason]

It literally didn't count

[sick sentinel]

people play this game to smash buttons not to do reflex tests every pack

[lusty tiger]

ik lmfao

[uneven mason]

Amazing what community perception does

[mighty valley]

i know gamer feedback is "don't challenge me ever"

[dusky canopy]

Been debating what tank to alt

Probably another warrior

[sick sentinel]

i mean

[dusky canopy]

[uneven mason]

We're like, "fetid log" point

[mighty valley]

but doing literally the same rotation in every dungeon with nothing to get in the way does get old

[fallen pulsar]

Idk, I dont plan to play more than one class this expac. I have a boomie alt for the memes

[uneven mason]

You have warriors tanking mythic raid using whirlwind

[lusty tiger]

5real?

[uneven mason]

Literally don't even need to press buttons

[sick sentinel]

im pretty sure you can make a WA so that whenever your interrupt comes up the screen turns blue. And you just press a button like a monkey in one of those documentaries

[dusky canopy]

WW

[uneven mason]

6real

[sick sentinel]

thats literally every pack rn lol

[mighty valley]

except there are kicks that are important and kicks that aren't

and if everyone kicks at the same time you miss the later ones

[lusty tiger]

mythic raiding is ez thats why i had to quit after 100 painsmith wipes post nerf

[sick sentinel]

thats the entire point

why is that such a huge part of m+

why is calling kicks half the mechanics

lol

[mighty valley]

i don't love how hard they're indexing on it as the main and only dps challenge but "just let me do my aoe rotation for the rest of time" isn't the solution imo

[fallen pulsar]

My favorite are important casts that are only hard CCable 🙂 like flame dance

[sick sentinel]

its way more fun than whatever this is

thats for sure

they had that in legion nobody complained about it

[mighty valley]

i like when good players who are aware of what the enemies do are rewarded over dps bots

[sick sentinel]

especially pugs

[dusky canopy]

Might not be a popular opinion but I’d like the high end dungeon content to be doable without Voice

It technically is now

[sick sentinel]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[dusky canopy]

But it’s a luck thing

[mighty valley]

i like coordinating with my friends to do hard challenges

[sick sentinel]

calling kicks is not coordinating

[trim bay]

i dont have friends

[pliant geyser]

is into the fray > heavy repercussions for m+?

[mighty valley]

i don't really want to just play "how close can i get to my sim number"

[fallen pulsar]

I just think it's wild how many triple caster packs there are in a 20 yard radius in certain dungeons lmao

[jagged pier]

No

[dusky canopy]

Go HR my dude!!

[mighty valley]

it literally is coordinating

[dusky canopy]

Don’t want this either, agreed

[mighty valley]

there are three enemies, we assign a job, you follow through

[sick sentinel]

are lining up in a grocery store also coordinating

[nimble laurel]

it is

[sick sentinel]

i mean technically it is

but its like

dumb

stay in your pos dont cut the queue

[dusky canopy]

Humble, get the auto marker and assign a marker to each pug at the start

That’s like your best bet

[fallen pulsar]

I just think it's easier if one enemy casts a lot and needs consistent turn based interrupting rather than 3 casters needing to be interrupted separately and consistently. It makes interrupting with pugs a nightmare

[sick sentinel]

isessentially what calling kick is

[pliant geyser]

how sure are you guys? looking at some of the highest io prot tanks they all seem to use fray

[sick sentinel]

i have them

i just hate the meta

[lusty tiger]

try it, log, show us your % blocked hits in a m+

[mighty valley]

all of wow is dumb simple tasks that you try and stay on top of while not dropping your fundamental rotation and positioning

[fallen pulsar]

the highest m+ logs also do some questionable things, that can be overcome with high levels of coordination

[lusty tiger]

really fast mario party

[fallen pulsar]

but unless you have that its much riskier

[sick sentinel]

and some of them do not require you to get on voice with 4 randoms trangers

[inland raft]

Itf is fine you just need to have a way to cover for downtime on block which normally means being in an organized group. If gonna run itf in pug id suggest bolster to shore up block uptime

[dusky canopy]

Fray is technically more AoE but you’ll be better off with HR it helps lower rage starvation scenarios

[inland raft]

Hr is simply easier and less to think about

[lusty tiger]

first of all, most m+ comps dont let u have max fray stacks

[mighty valley]

legion m+ felt like ffxiv dungeons

[uneven mason]

It's a DPS gain in aoe at 5 stacks with high uptime when you have 36% unbuffed haste, also the top io tanks literally just have a lot of time and consistent teams so not really something you use as a basis

[mighty valley]

pull everything til you're not allowed to pull, do rotation til dead

repeat til you unsub

[sick sentinel]

i mean im pretty sure more people enjoyed legion m+ than whatever weve had for the past couple season

[mighty valley]

it was new

[sick sentinel]

even now people like doing the aoe heavy dungeons more than the kick ones

cos

just smash buttons

[uneven mason]

Lots less, m+ in Legion was the boogey man

[mighty valley]

yeah people want number to go up without having to learn anything

[urban bane]

you can still do among the best dam with HR.

[sick sentinel]

why the fuck

do i want to learn things

when i play video games

[fallen pulsar]

m+ in legion also didnt have the reward structure we have now

[sick sentinel]

i play to have fun lol

[inland raft]

Bfa if say was high point of m+ not legion

[fallen pulsar]

there wasnt a ton of incentive to do high keys in legion

[urban bane]

some people have fun learning :V

[fallen pulsar]

most people were spamming +2 maw

[lusty tiger]

there is a lot you can gain irl from video games

[inland raft]

Bfa overall may have sucked but m+ was fun most of the time

[sick sentinel]

ok but heres the thing

calling kicks

is not learning

you "learn" once and you do the monkey reflex test for the rest of the patch

its just dumb

[lusty tiger]

maybe you learn a way to ignore it after though

[urban bane]

sounds like envy

[inland raft]

Knowing what kicks to call and what to let go through and being able to change the call on fly depending on situation while also managing rotation and positioning is learning though

[fallen pulsar]

idk man, just become a paladin and perma kick 8 mobs with shield 😛 it's a pain, but if it wasnt this it'd probably be something else. Overall M+ is good imo

[sick sentinel]

you literally "learn" that within first 2 weeks of the patch

and then its no fun

when was the last time someone said ohhhh cant wait to interrupt

[mighty valley]

you can queue normal dungeons and keep a notepad doc on your other screen where you add 1 to the number on it every time you complete a dungeon

[dusky canopy]

I personally like the massive tank and spank pulls

[sick sentinel]

exactly

[mighty valley]

the complete and perfect no learning no coordination m+ experience

[vestal rover]

does ignore pain stack?

[sick sentinel]

everybody loves tank and spank aoe

[fallen pulsar]

to a cap

[lusty tiger]

up to 1/3 of your max hp

[dusky canopy]

Prime example everybody loves AA tree boss trash

You know why?

No kicks

Massive damage

[sick sentinel]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[dusky canopy]

Dodge floor

Win

[mighty valley]

you're advocating ice cream for dinner design

[fallen pulsar]

those should exist. but they shouldnt be every pull

otherwise you'd fall asleep lmao

they're exciting when they're rare

[sick sentinel]

and kicks are exciting when

[inland raft]

The heavy emphasis on kicks is def lazy game design noone is going to deny that, but wanting all or even most pulls to be like that is also bad design

[sick sentinel]

why are they everywhere then

[dusky canopy]

That’s my kinda gameplay, but I do agree that there has to be other pull designs

Maybe less “mandatory” kicks would be nice

[fallen pulsar]

the key is: variation. Some packs should be kick heavy. some can be tank and spanks. and others should be somewhere in between/introduce different mechanical needs

[mighty valley]

it's literally just a thing that punishes you if you get overwhelmed or pull beyond your group's capability and get distracted

[fallen pulsar]

variety is the spice of life

[lusty tiger]

well if casts just reduced player dam no pug would ever kick

[dusky canopy]

I would kick because I want to do big dam

[sick sentinel]

thats the answer, they dont want you to mass pull

but why

[warm plinth]

You have to find a balance. People should have to do things correctly to do a +20 key

[inland raft]

Ya need more large pulls where theres maybe 1 or 2 mobs with an insanely dangerous miss it and wipe cast etc that way still requires attention but get to pump the numbers etc

They def need more variation

[mighty valley]

because i'm sorry you fundamentally disagree with the entire history of game design learning but variance is essential to keeping people coming back to games

[sick sentinel]

ground aoe, frontal, damage vulnerability windows

there are so many ways to introduce mechanics

they choose to die on the kick hill

idk why

[warm plinth]

Those all exist already 🤔

[nimble laurel]

this

[fallen pulsar]

I mean it's season 1, they can still change this around with later dungeons lol

[sick sentinel]

thats the point

they already have ways to differentiate player skill levels

kicks are just not as fun as any of those

but kicks are the most prevelant

[warm plinth]

So what's your suggestion, you just remove them?

[sick sentinel]

no

reduce them

[pliant geyser]

I had to brb but yeah I mean I was just curious, I've been using repercussions but was wondering about fray is all

[dusky canopy]

IMO, a perfect example of a happy medium would be Necrotic wake first boss room you can pull massive but you have to be able to manage the drain fluid casts because theirs one or so in various packs in that room

[mighty valley]

there's a big difference between "they lean too hard on kicks" and "legion m+ was basically perfect"

[fallen pulsar]

they tried something, it wasn't the best, we can only hope they adapt and change encounter design for the next seasons.

[warm plinth]

How many do you think there are? The number of kicks seem pretty reasonable to me this season

[dusky canopy]

What we have now is literally every mob in one pack has a mandatory stop

[sick sentinel]

what...

[dusky canopy]

That’s not my preference

[warm plinth]

A lot of "kicks" can be stopped too, without an actual interrupt.

[modern brook]

Only dungeon with dumb kick counts is rlp

[fallen pulsar]

they did at least make the caster not instantly resume casting when they stopped being stunned

[sick sentinel]

in TJS one pack of 3 mobs has 5 different kick rotation you think thats normal?

[modern brook]

Everything else is fine

[sick sentinel]

2* tidal burst 2* hydro lance 1* fear

you think this is reasonable?

[fallen pulsar]

hydrolance is a meme, only need to care about tidal and fear tbh

[inland raft]

Ya stuns/displacements beint actual interrupts and not just delays was a big and welcome change

[lusty tiger]

just remove cc DR on mobs ezz

[sick sentinel]

go do anything over 21 on a fortify weeks

[nimble abyss]

2 tidals, 2 hydrolance and a mind control please

[dusky canopy]

I think dungeon design and what the community wants speaks for itself when you compare data from the 4 legacy keys to the 4 DF keys

[vast goblet]

Just because a spell can be interrupted doesn’t mean it needs to be

[nimble abyss]

cause we all have that one guy we beat on when m/c

[dusky canopy]

It’s not how much damage the abilities do

It’s because of the mob control required

At least imo

[sick sentinel]

hyrdo lance hits for ~170k a cast and will continue cast if not interrupted

[warm plinth]

What pack has that? There's a pack that has two waterspeakers and a mistweaver; is that what your'e thinking of?

[inland raft]

You have 2 people on tidal there someone on defiling mists and the other 2 kick whatever they can

[warm plinth]

Tidal Burst and Defiled Mist are both stoppable without kicks, so you can use kicks for hydrolance

[inland raft]

Healer heals and use defensives if get targeted back to back

You dont have to get every single individual casts just the big ones and any that will kill their target

[rough egret]

which food buff you eatin? 75str fortune cookie? or secondaries?

[odd tree]

a bunch of specs gained stops/interrupts with the new trees, i don't feel the kicks are unreasonable

but some dungeons definitely have more then others

[warm plinth]

Fortune cookie/feast if available, otherwise haste

[urban bane]

if people are timing keys past the reward threshold then it is probably fine, right?

[dusky canopy]

I’m happy with all 4 legacy keys the packs are reasonable

[urban bane]

it isnt like it is categorically impossible or something, if that's the argument

[dusky canopy]

No the guy was just complaining about how many stops/kicks new design requires

[warm plinth]

This isn't even the shitty season tbh

[dusky canopy]

Oh you right my dude

[warm plinth]

Next season we're gonna have fuckin Halls of Infusion and Brackenhide 😂

[dusky canopy]

Next season the DF dungeons will be TOTAL ass

[uncut ibex]

do we want to sync our cds with demo if we play without thunderlord, and instead with battering ram?

[dusky canopy]

Not looking forward to that lol

[hazy thicket]

All 4 of the remaining df dungeons are... Not great

[warm plinth]

They should naturally sync with demo, yes

[dusky canopy]

They’re not that’s what I’m saying

[warm plinth]

Shield Charge every one, TR/Ravager every other

[uncut ibex]

yeah they do except for avatar sometimes

[dusky canopy]

The community doesn’t like the new way they’re designing packs

[warm plinth]

Yeah Avatar won't always, that's fine

Just send it

[dusky canopy]

To much required mob control sucks

[uncut ibex]

ok thx 🙂

[hazy thicket]

ThE cOmMuNiTy

[dusky canopy]

It’s not even like that though

Like literally look at time keys completed

What 4 dungeons are on top

Old or new

[warm plinth]

uh oh

Extended

[dusky canopy]

We know that was happening

[unkempt imp]

https://tenor.com/view/shrek-pitchfork-kill-burn-stake-gif-11227021

[warm plinth]

WE RIOT

https://tenor.com/bDu2v.gif

[rough egret]

Versa flask is fine right? or should I be using Eye in the storm for m+?

[foggy drift]

Are we nerfed this reset

[warm plinth]

yes, and yes

[warm plinth]

and yes

[fallen pulsar]

oof 7pm EST is when my raid is supposed to start

probably going to start late today

everyones gotta open their vault 😂

[sick sentinel]

408 here i come

[dusky canopy]

Gotta get my last couple 20s complete so I can focus an alt

[rough egret]

looks like we will open the vaults together, EU and NA 😄

[dusky canopy]

[sick sentinel]

408 haste versa ring

[dusky canopy]

Get that bread yogi

[sick sentinel]

have fun with deathbolts in SBG today , whatever affixes are

they hurt

[torpid fiber]

that extension to 4 pst just hurt my heart after chomping at the bit to play after work

[dusky canopy]

More league I guess

[torpid fiber]

hearthstone battlegrounds here

[heady gyro]

https://tenor.com/view/eric-andre-let-me-wahh-wild-go-gif-13490041

[torpid fiber]

daaaang warlocks got hit with a 90 percent nerf on soulkeeper

[sick sentinel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSEZ-fnhG2c blizzard, we have extended regularmaintainence for another 7 hours.....

[torpid fiber]

its fine. everythings fine...

[void marten]

i've taken an external opinion about yesterday's debate

[lusty tiger]

Are servers up yet?

[sick sentinel]

pug brain

[warm plinth]

No it got extended

[drifting needle]

Damage is king, truth

[fallen pulsar]

What in tarnation

[void marten]

my boy has conflicting information

i wrote dragonflight a question above

[tender cove]

last boss in azure, you can reflect the dragon strike so it does no dmg but you dont actually reflect it?

[void marten]

it answered me dragon soul raid

[void marten]

yes, it's a deflect

[tender cove]

can you get all of them with SR?
It felt like i just randomly took some huge tank hit and i want to say it didnt show up in bigwigs but maybe just missed it

[sterile bough]

no

[void marten]

no you miss some

[tender cove]

and my team was yelling "go into defensive stance", you'll survive xD

im toggling but they dont get it xD

[void marten]

you cd the initial hit

and get the debuf dispelled

[tender cove]

Was my first 20, everything felt fine until those 500k hits xD

and dont get me started on those annoying balls xD

[west yew]

boys i only tank keys and im gonna try to get into raid the next few weeks, but the guild im in has like 4 tanks. should i off spec arms or fury?

cant decide

i haven't really played either spec i played a little arms in legion but that's it

[heady gyro]

Arms for sure

[tender cove]

I'd say try both and play what you find fun.

[grizzled zenith]

What do you think guys? Is it over tomorrow?

Honestly the nerfs seems not that hard.

[tender cove]

yeh, just reroll

[mighty valley]

reroll now

[versed matrix]

honestly just delete character to be safe

it's the only way to be sure

[mighty valley]

uninstall operating system

[tender cove]

bury computer in the sea as a backup

[grizzled zenith]

I will delete the internet

So none of you can play!

[torpid fiber]

i demand a mythic grieftorch from vault as compensation for extended maintenence

[tender cove]

So question. I know its fair critique to mention defensive stance, specially when i died once without it...but back seat tanking? I dunno but it just triggers me'

[tulip kelp]

have you killed mythic brood?

[tulip kelp]

What's your question? lol

[torpid fiber]

i stand by my demand

[tender cove]

I dont know how to formulate it. I feel like, sure, noice bonus but it wouldnt have prevented me from dying. Pressing cd's would have and I fucked it up.

But it was just all about "you have to tank in def stance"

How do i tell them they're wrong when I did die? xD

[warm plinth]

What is this? A website?

[tulip kelp]

I mean if you get hit by dragon strike without some type of CD it is 100% your fault lol

[tender cove]

yeh obvious haha.
Ok, lets rephrase it, do you think def stance alone is enough of a cooldown to survive it?

[tulip kelp]

I swear I've reflected 100% of them once but worst case I get caught once without SR and I just use SW or some other CD.. there really isn't any damage that fight if you're on top of your CDs

[tender cove]

one pull it felt like if i just pressed SR a second early it would be up for the next one but it also feels like spell queue was fucking me over at times.

[void marten]

chatgpt

[warm plinth]

what is that o_O

[celest zenith]

bit off topic, but was there any consensus on ideal training for the ruby whelpling? I mainly M=, but wasnt sure how good the fire aoe was v haste buff v single target

[tulip kelp]

SR isn't on GCD though, shouldn't be any spell queue issues.. you should pretty easily get the majority of the strikes if you have Little Wigs or some timer, just do it as you see it come up and you should be able to get almost (or maybe even all) of them

[hard birch]

What is SR?

[tulip kelp]

reflect

[distant crystal]

shamanistic rage

[mighty valley]

i imagine he's talking about spell queueing on the boss

[tulip kelp]

Spinal Reaper

[torpid fiber]

sam rockwell

[tulip kelp]

Even if you wait til he's physically casting the Dragon Strike (you see the cast start) you can still get like 90% of them either way

[warm plinth]

Dude I love Sam Rockwell

He's like the male Anna Kendrick

[tulip kelp]

Its not nearly as tight as say Conductive Strike on last Nok boss

[deft hazel]

came back from school but no wow

[torpid fiber]

i understand sylvanas now. existence is suffering

[warm plinth]

Soon™️

[trim bay]

LOL

[sick sentinel]

tiny update just now

[warm plinth]

You're a tiny update

gottem

[unborn karma]

what kind of % uptime should ignore pain get in a key?

[warm plinth]

The % that keeps you from overcapping rage

[sharp oasis]

enough that you don't miss shield block

[unborn karma]

so no % over a key roughly

90%? 80%?

i dont play prot at all, im just comparing a log

[tender cove]

I meant the boss spell queue, sometimes, i popped it when bigwigs said 1 second left but then it never came.

[warm plinth]

It's not a metric we really care about. We only press Ignore Pain if a tankbuster is about to happen or if we need to use it because Revenge isn't enough to prevent rage overcap

[tender cove]

About the nerfs, it only made our 4set stronger right?

[slim dove]

no?

the value of 4set didn't really change.

[sharp oasis]

Ignore pain isn't a % up time skill, it's a at need and prioritized use skill.

[torpid fiber]

ghash highly recommends into the fray now

[tender cove]

How come? Wasn't a bit due to it overcapping and now its less chance for that?

[unborn karma]

fair enough, just tank kept being floorpov in a +20 academy and it just doesn't seem like that should be the case

[warm plinth]

Do you have a log?

[trim bay]

try making your targets cast bar bigger so you notice the casts more. dont rely just on lw/dbm

[unborn karma]

unfortunatly not, only details

[warm plinth]

what is the shield block %. It's also not a great metric but if it's super low then it's a problem.

[modest gulch]

I just look at warcraft logs for people who are doing massive keys and killing it. Example, the top SBG run +26, warrior had an ignore pain uptime of 81.92%. So, I'd say the answer is a lot. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/FkHKTWDzVqZxYpML#fight=7&type=auras&source=2

[sharp oasis]

what was his hps and healer hps?

[unborn karma]

62%

[warm plinth]

Yeah that's not good

[unborn karma]

ignore pain is 67%

[warm plinth]

The actual metric we use is % of blocked hits, but 62% is low enough to recognize there's an issue there.

67% is a fine uptime for IP

[sharp oasis]

shield block should be nearly 100% by the time you're running 20+ keys

[trim bay]

how many shield slam casts

[warm plinth]

But you can't see % of blocked hits in details unfortunately

[unborn karma]

337 shield slam cast

[modest gulch]

Basically every one of the top top top logs has about the same uptime.

[west yew]

what boss was he dying on

tree boss?

[unborn karma]

nah

bird

to the peck

constantly

[warm plinth]

You literally can't just compare shit like that

[west yew]

peck is a tough tank buster but even still

[unborn karma]

hed die to the dot

not the peck

[deft hazel]

[warm plinth]

I mean, the peck hits like a truck

[west yew]

one of the highest tank busters in the current dungeons

[warm plinth]

Like the bleed is nasty too ofc but it's a huge amount of up front damage as well.

[trim bay]

the dots a bleed. it can be dispelled?

not every time obviously

[unborn karma]

couldnt dispell them all

[warm plinth]

By evokers and dwarves, that's it

[sick sentinel]

i hope at some point far in the future we go back to shadowlands, and the jailer isn't a push over this time

[trim bay]

yea

[west yew]

basically during that you just have to pop a defensive if you have it and slam ignore pains and hope the healer has you

i just have a weak aura that shows my shield block duration cause im really bad

[trim bay]

thats not bad

how else would you know its up

[unborn karma]

yh i havent mained tank since s3/s4 and the amount of bad tanks (this is a friend so helping out) is fucking annoying man.. makes me want to go back

[west yew]

true i guess

[deft hazel]

are we getting extended again?

[sharp oasis]

just macro it to every skill you have and you never have to worry about it

[warm plinth]

tbf there are some very nasty tankbusters

this expansion

[unborn karma]

yh im maining rogue, i just wanted to see what it was as protwar is the only tank i dont play lol

[west yew]

crawth tank buster, tojs 3rd boss p2, 2nd boss rlp

all very scary

[unborn karma]

but at like 414 ilvl

prot war

shouldnt die everytime

on a 20

[west yew]

definitely not

[tulip kelp]

Yeah, seriously considering faction change to dwarf just to help with crawth and ruby 2nd boss lol

[warm plinth]

Yeah he did something wrong on that fight but without a log we don't know what

[cold thorn]

Any suggestions on what to use my sparks on for a prot warrior I just leveled up to 70?

[trim bay]

are you offsetting SW/DS

[west yew]

if he was dying to the dot and he was popping ignore pains it was the healers fault tbh

[sharp oasis]

nah sounds like he needs to re-evaluate his cooldown priorities.

[west yew]

but if he wasn't then it's on him

[warm plinth]

Shield>weapon>other

[trim bay]

stay in Dstance for the bleed

[unborn karma]

yh healer also sucked

[sick sentinel]

one of my first goals when i log in today is to try to fill the rest of the profession items to blue quality

[unborn karma]

i think

but still

im so used to being a bdk that im like.. wtf is a healer doing

[warm plinth]

Crawth is a strong argument for full defensive stance in terms of boss fights because you only have like 6-7 seconds in between tankbusters (from the end of the bleed to the next hit)

[unborn karma]

his defensive stance uptime is 100%

[sick sentinel]

i have green profession gear, but i want blue, and epic if they put epic crafting gear in

[trim bay]

he using IV?

[cold roost]

Seeing people talk about stance... feel like im messing up being in defensive too long but feel like in higher keys its needed

[warm plinth]

Oh, I mean...that's good in the sense that it's not part of why he's dying I guess lol.

[unborn karma]

no idea what IV is

[daring marlin]

Crawth bleed fucking S L A P S

[unborn karma]

i dont have a log for this dung

[warm plinth]

IV is Impending Victory

[trim bay]

impending victory

[unborn karma]

its details so its kind of shit to look at

yh he has IV

[trim bay]

small self heal

[warm plinth]

Sorry didn't mean to reply to you Raravin

[trim bay]

but helps

[daring marlin]

30-35k HPS when tanking that idiot. I love it.

[cold roost]

It fine lol

[sick sentinel]

the problem is defensive stance is just too much of a negative to use right now, Dstance needs to have something else on it for me to use it besides giant tank busters

[tulip kelp]

I mean you'd be surprised the amount of healers even at 2500+ that don't understand tankbusters

[west yew]

i didn't use defensive stance until like +16 dungeons 😭

[unborn karma]

even if healer is shit, cant a prot war keep himself up? or am i blinded by bdk ?

[west yew]

sometimes

depends on the boss

crawth on a +20 probably not

[warm plinth]

If we're referring to Crawth specifically, a prot warrior cannot keep himself up.

[daring marlin]

You should only really use it for tankbusters.

[unborn karma]

well this prot war died on every boss..

we couldnt finish the key

as he couldnt stay alive

[cold roost]

Fair, FEel like in 15+ I been needing it but could maybe adjust per boss and pull

[tulip kelp]

I've busted 20s and had to explain mid key to healers how 3rd boss jade works, same as RLP 2nd boss, etc.. they're not used to having to spam heals or use CDs on tank

[unborn karma]

it took lots of pulls each boss and we got stuck on bird so just went fuck it

and went elsewhere

[warm plinth]

Vex = huge tankbuster
Crawth = huge tankbuster
Tree = if no poison dispel can be very spicy
Last boss = if you die here you should quit the game

[sick sentinel]

like, what if Dstance is, you have a +15% block chance while it is active

[warm plinth]

That's literally pointless

[daring marlin]

Don't need anything else added to dstance. It works as it should.

[warm plinth]

Dstance is good for what it does

[unborn karma]

yh just seeing if any massive obvious mishaps without log.. like shield block being up 62% i guess

thanks for help 🙂

[warm plinth]

The only change I would potentially make to dstance is just to remove stances. Otherwise leave it be.

[tulip kelp]

I mean is he your friend or some random

[unborn karma]

friend

hes tanking m+ first time this season after i swapped to dps

[modest gulch]

I'm never comfortable with the healer tho

[sharp oasis]

it needs either a default leach, or higher crit block rate

[tulip kelp]

Does he die in all dungeons? How about RLP or Jade Temple?

[unborn karma]

yep

[sick sentinel]

so, how do you fix defensive stance

[tulip kelp]

Oh lol

[unborn karma]

floorpov allot tbh

[warm plinth]

Making it have more defense is not gonna make us use it. We don't ignore it because it's not defensive enough. We ignore it because it's too harmful to our damage.

[sick sentinel]

like, cuz nobody wants to use it

[west yew]

tell him to join here and ask for help

[tulip kelp]

Yeah that's a him thing then, just gotta learn what does damage and how to mitigate it

[unborn karma]

he is in here

i think

[modest gulch]

same, I just start linking abilities... "healer read this" and then explain

[warm plinth]

Have him log in the future so we can actually help. This hasn't really been productive imo.

[unborn karma]

we were doing high 20s last season. but i was tanking, and ive tanked a grand total of like 3 m0 this season so cant really help him lol

[cinder storm]

RLP 20 was spicy on every boss, but had two dps doing low ST so we ended up with like four chillstorms before adds

[unborn karma]

i have other dungs logs of him

but thats upto him to do

not me

[warm plinth]

Even the people playing prot war don't know the kit; why would the healers?

[sick sentinel]

"maintence has been extend......."

[west yew]

i started in legion and i didn't cast spell reflect until like 7.3

[cinder storm]

Truer words have never been spoken

[sick sentinel]

rogue it was alot simpler, you just get energy (basically rage) for existing

[cold roost]

I lowkey havent cast spell reflect all that option... at least on bosses havent found many to use it on

might be becaue I dont think its a cast ability or would trigger it

[west yew]

it does magic damage reduction

[torpid fiber]

dont you put that evil on us...

[sharp oasis]

a lot of bosses have some ability you can reflect. it's awesome in Azure Vaults

[sick sentinel]

i just did

[cold roost]

I have read that ability like 20 times.... im dumb

[west yew]

spell reflect on storm boss in nokhud 🤤

[versed matrix]

I love spell reflection

[west yew]

u should use it constantly

[versed matrix]

it's the best way to bait my team into using kicks/stuns

[sick sentinel]

went to run nokhud last night.......

[cold roost]

Ye going to use it more

[west yew]

use it even if you dont know why you should use it

[sick sentinel]

had a hunter and dk with grabby arms, probably a warlock too

tell them, i need to restart game for curse addons

spend 45 minutes fighting with wow trying to login (feels like, probably 15 minutes)

[west yew]

prot warrior feels so good to me in this expac in a way it hasn't in the last few idk

[sick sentinel]

get new group for 13 nokhud, wipe to first pack i do, second pack, "healer has died to melee"

and then, i gave up

[sharp oasis]

@cold roost use it on Umbrelskul when he channels for dragon strike. it mitigates the whole hit.

[cold roost]

Wait... it does! I thought it was physical

[cinder storm]

Just read the spreadsheet that's on the pins, memorize it, it goes a long way

[sharp oasis]

it's arcane damage

[rough egret]

is it worth upgrading Strike twice? 😄

[west yew]

@cold roost final boss on nokhud conductive strike and thunder strike

reflectable

[cinder storm]

Why not craft a 418 1h?

[rough egret]

i just passed 15s lvl

did my second 16 thius week

and I did NO16 for +2 🙂

now i have RLP18 😄

[modest gulch]

My brain is broken after this conversation about defensive stance haha. -15% flat DR just seems too good

I am curious what the difference Battle Stance makes for 4 piece tier though

[cinder storm]

Killing adds faster is what times the key tho

[tepid owl]

5:00 PST! Wooo

[modest gulch]

so its mostly used on trash and bosses without tank-busters.

[sick sentinel]

i did it!

[pallid quiver]

It's used almost all the time

[torpid fiber]

am i insane or should a patch this size not take so long?

[pallid quiver]

If you don't die with it off, you don't need it on, since you can generally CD your way through problems and your damage potential is much higher than the healers

[pallid quiver]

They're likely also double checking servers and testing on their own end before going live

[sick sentinel]

i mean bliz is prob not the hottest employer people want to work for rn

[torpid fiber]

but to need 10 hours?

[sick sentinel]

so they prob dont have the best employees

[pallid quiver]

ye

if a problem pops up, they gotta fix it

[modest gulch]

I'll probably macro some swaps to test this out,

[pallid quiver]

It's a service that is going underneath service changes in a heavy corporate environment that needs to survive people intentionally banging their head into it

Because people do try and fuck with the game as much as possible to find exploits

[torpid fiber]

youre not fooling us luerce. we know you work at blizz

[pallid quiver]

So it needs to be a failure proof as possible, and they can't just take the servers down every day, so they need to try and bulk address issues like this during times when they have an excuse for the servers being down

[rough egret]

doble SW seems to be ok for RLP18 right? 😄

[pallid quiver]

oh hell i'd never work for blizz, that shit sounds like it sucks from everything i ever hear

[rough egret]

espec 2nd boss

[torpid fiber]

the expansion literally didnt take this long but it will for white item transmogs and a new vendor?

ok lol

[pallid quiver]

I personally wouldn't, since you can get SW up commonly enough with the Wall for 2nd boss, which will mean you get more uses overall

[sick sentinel]

relax man it takes how long it takes

blizz is a declining company

we knew this already

[simple bronze]

i'm in now

[fathom goblet]

do we do any fire damage ?

I have diurna rings in my vault

[slim dove]

frostfire belt.

[pallid quiver]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/blizzard-on-todays-extended-patch-10-0-5-maintenance-331143?webhook

fuck i guess i do work for blizzard

they said the same shit i did

[steel mauve]

trinkets or the belt, the belt is more reliable

[fathom goblet]

is it worth getting ?

[slim dove]

yes, its a free embellish basically.

the dmg ring is better ofc in majority scenarios.

[fathom goblet]

its the dmg ring

[oblique quarry]

if i upgrade my shoulders to 411 will i get the herioc mog?

[crystal bear]

I’m just tried a TJS and while is was using shield wall , shield block etc .
The heals couldn’t heal me up , it was a evoker did I make a mistake or is evoker not suited for that fight

3rd boss 19Tyr

Normally I don’t struggle at all but I felt like a paper tissue I. That fight

[tulip kelp]

Did you rotate CDs? I need to use health pot, IV, rally, last stand, etc

[raven fjord]

hey guys, got 1 [Concentrated Primal Infusion]. what would benefit me more, upgrade my 405 lariat, my 405 weapon, or craft a 418 shield (currently i have a 411 shield equipped)?

[fathom goblet]

whats the proc rate for diurna ring with frostfire belt ?

[warm plinth]

weapon would be your biggest upgrade, followed by shield. So just pick between a survival gain or a damage gain

[raven fjord]

alright, thanks! 🙂

[crystal bear]

Yeah i used shield block and Hp pot first . Then shield wall and last stand .
Then I used demo shout + spell reflect en used a lock rock. And I was dead .
The heals did like 20k healing . And somehow dps was taking damage too

[sonic crown]

guys guys 411 grieftorch or 421 chest tier ( mine 408 tier chest)

[prisma crane]

chest

easy

[sonic crown]

fosho?

[prisma crane]

unless you're regularly clearing mythic, yes

[sonic crown]

kk

[prisma crane]

grief is kinda trolling for us anyways

you cant block/dodge/parry while it's channeling

[karmic siren]

am i missing something where we have to put more points into the class tree for battle stance and d stance now?

[fathom goblet]

does ruby whelp shell counts as fire damage ?

[daring marlin]

421 whetstone and puzzle box in the vault

[vapid magnet]

hows the CoS ring for prot

[daring marlin]

lul

[vapid magnet]

lol

[crystal bear]

Yeah but only has cpm of 1

[prisma crane]

yes but its unreliable for that, the belt is your best bet, assuming you have the eranog ring

[prisma crane]

easily whetstone

[daring marlin]

100%

[fathom goblet]

@prisma crane iits the eranog ring

[prisma crane]

yea then get the crafted belt

[daring marlin]

tier pants too but I'll just use catalyst

[south plume]

is manic a bait

[proud dock]

any new data about Ruby trinket come out yet? is it notable or nah

[woeful idol]

is strike twice bait? or is a crafted sword with an embelishment better for m+? both are 418

[fierce yarrow]

any build for single target?

[weak zealot]

Hey gang. I have a 421 necklace in the vault, chain of scorched bones, which is haste/verse. How important is Lariat for prot wars? is it better to use this and use embelishment on other stuff?

[gaunt oar]

If I catalyst the helm, it will keep avoidance, but will it go to 411? Or will it be 402 still?

[tulip kelp]

If you have strike at 418 already I would craft something else

[hybrid aurora]

it will keep avoidance

[tulip kelp]

Keep avoidance but be 402

[gaunt oar]

fuck

[woeful idol]

I have a crafted sword rn, the othe option is a 421 blaze binding hoof

[tulip kelp]

Wait what are you catalyzing it’s already tier

[sonic crown]

is blze hoof better than shell?

[tulip kelp]

Catalyst is for converting non tier to tier

[gaunt oar]

catalyze teh gaze

[uneven mason]

why the shit is my talent sets all fucked

[warm yoke]

Incarnate Icon or Diurna ring. I do slip in to fury from time to time but prot is the focus

[gaunt oar]

casque is vault

[tulip kelp]

Oh nm it’s not I’m blind

[uneven mason]

did the patch fuckup anyone elses talent sets?

[gaunt oar]

thats the otehr option

[uneven mason]

unspecced half my crap

[modest gulch]

Are they going to ever unlock valor? Anyone know?

[gaunt oar]

if i take those shoulders, do i cata helm

[wind bramble]

What trees are people running? i just lost 7 points in my tre and i cant remember where they went

[gaunt oar]

to keep 4p

[pine hatch]

yep i can't even select the stances and all my points are used up

[halcyon dust]

Take the leech and go catalyst creation it?

[gaunt oar]

thats what im thinking

[sick sentinel]

trying to get on NA but server congestion or somethin

if my 408 is tier or ring im choosin that

[warm plinth]

This score change is actually hilarious

https://www.wowhead.com/news/score-awarded-from-depleted-mythic-keystones-over-20-significantly-nerfed-in-331144?webhook

Imagine doing like a +25 and you miss timer by 1 second and you get score as if it was a 20

[karmic siren]

Ya because d stance and battle stance used to be just given and didnt require poiints.... i didnt see shit about this in patch notes

[sick sentinel]

run curseforge

wow yelling at me to update addons

i should have logged in while i had the chance...

[shy willow]

is 418 fire dam absorb ring big?

or should I go for 4set

[sick sentinel]

pog

[sick sentinel]

i need that

[fallen pulsar]

currently progging on the reconnect boss, it's really tough.

[modest gulch]

wiping constantly here also Nando

[forest gale]

I had this issue too and figured out how to fix

Its due to the change in arms getting both stances without talents

Swap to arms spec once

Dont need to allocate talents

Then swap back to prot

Your free talent points will repopulate

[vivid rover]

Genuine question, what changed with prot that reset 2 of my skill points lol

[shy willow]

they literally just explained that

[thin silo]

for some reason it just fucked with Avatar for me

[steel mauve]

mine just took off avatar as well

[karmic siren]

oh wow that worked

tysm

[vivid rover]

Yeah. I just poked into the chat

[nimble laurel]

very boring vault

[slim dove]

elvui action bars dead?

[forest gale]

Youre welcome

[fallen pulsar]

guildie having the same issue

[fading tide]

Snore city

[modest gulch]

sockets it is eh?

[shy willow]

is ring bis for us?

[sick sentinel]

its bis and its not

[nimble laurel]

I may actually take shield

[sick sentinel]

check logs with people using it

[modest gulch]

127 haste isn't much to lose, avoidance isn't much either

[fallen pulsar]

418 whetstone in the vault 😎

[sick sentinel]

i should have hit log in character when i could

[sudden kindle]

my current trinkets

think take the tier helm? (just ilvl upgrade)

or one of those trinkets

[sick sentinel]

let me in let me in

[restive crown]

what is the best trinkets for m+ or raid ya?

[fluid shard]

POGGERS

[modest gulch]

it's like launch day how the fuuuug

[frank hemlock]

is our simc broken?

[frail bough]

I’m thinking about dropping 3 ilvls on this chestpiece to get “superior” secondary stats. Wrong move?

[pallid quiver]

Always wrong move

Str is worth more than all secondary stats

It gives more everything

[steel mauve]

ilvl >specific stats on a main piece

[frail bough]

Even if it’s just 13 pts?

[pallid quiver]

yes

It gives more everything

And all secondaries are good, so you even have more of those

[modest gulch]

Anyone help me on this point from the pin. "IV" and "IP" are not coming into my mind. What are these abilities?

[lucid dew]

if you put a second on a crafted piece and recraft it does the socket go away

[viral pollen]

is a 421 fire damage ring from raid worth it over a 415 arcane loop and a 418 haste/verse crafter ring with a socket?

[sand mason]

No

[viral pollen]

i'd imagine not

[frail bough]

Ty

[pallid quiver]

Impending Victory, Ignore Pain

[pallid quiver]

would sim

[modest gulch]

Ignore Pain.... thank you. IP is such an "as often as possible" thing it didn't register.

[tulip kelp]

I have 402 boots atm, 395 normal tier chest.. gotta be boots right? I'm gonna be using CC on helm this week

[high drum]

chest

catalyst it next week

[sick sentinel]

i dunno if everyone else can but i cant get on

[modest gulch]

smart

[modest gulch]

I'm fucked too

[patent hull]

same

[tulip kelp]

Its gonna be sitting in my bags for a week tho, and always chance I can get another chest next week or heroic tier this week tho?

[steel mauve]

im on my second time walking dungeon

[round pendant]

dang, did 2 heroic bosses pugged, got 3 upgrades

[patent hull]

heroic loot reward for that or is that the mythic 0 week

[steel mauve]

its normal for timwewalking

[high drum]

heroic chest is only 408

and you can get shoes from raid too

[tulip kelp]

Also, I feel like much easier to get 421 chest in vault (more drops plus tier possibility) versus 421 boots right? I barely see any boots drop and i've seen a ton of chests

[high drum]

and chest ilvls are worth more

if you've already made your mind up that's cool but most people would say chest

[tulip kelp]

Havne't made up mind, leaning boots but wanted opinions

I see what you mean with more str/worth on chest

Do we get a spark this week?

[fallen pulsar]

wow just crashed because it ran out of memory 🤔

did the patch include a mem leak lmao

[sharp lake]

Did they change our talents?

Like none of my talents trees are saving correctly

[tender cove]

Would it make sense to macro def stance to say shield wall?

or LS/shout

[sick sentinel]

did you spend all points in both trees

[pallid quiver]

no

[sick sentinel]

thats a thing, you have to do both trees all points

[pallid quiver]

You don't always need to D Stance when you Shield Wall, and you don't always need to Shield Wall when you D Stance

They're separate defensives that you can opt to stack, but are separate defensives

[tender cove]

couldnt you make the argument that if you're pushing shield wall, you want to mitigate full stop and the extra seconds in def stance wouldnt be all to bad?

[fallen pulsar]

do trinkets like whetstone get affect by avatar/demo shout?

[tulip kelp]

Nope

[pallid quiver]

No, because you press it to not die

Like, if you want to full turtle, go ahead, but

if you only need the 40% then you only need the 40%

[tender cove]

What would the drawback be? 15% dps for duration?

[tender cove]

if you need 40% wouldnt you easily need 55% aswell?

[sick sentinel]

still in nokhud

[pallid quiver]

stacking defensives also gives you less overall benefit for each defensive you use, so you're gaining less defensive benefit for the same DPS loss

[sick sentinel]

ohhhhhhhh im in the game, val draken... i dunno

wtf did they change in the talent trees, cuz its deselected avatar and the one below for me,

[sage lava]

talents are broken atm for some ppl

like me

[tender cove]

thanks for beta testing the game for us on EU

[high drum]

I use wall to grieftorch

why would I wanna be in dstance

and fuck up my torch

[tender cove]

that makes no sense whatsoever but ok

[high drum]

what

you cant block while torching so you wall to compensate

[round pendant]

I had some really annoying guy in terros heroic keep telling me to use def stance

[high drum]

but you also dont wanna do less damage during ur omega damage trinket

[round pendant]

[tender cove]

I'd argue that is even worse than wanting to macro wall to dstance xD

[sick sentinel]

everything is ilvl upgrade

[round pendant]

sim it

god I hope I get a ring from my vault

[slim dove]

how would you argue that.

[round pendant]

or a tier piece

[high drum]

then you have no idea how to play freakadin

[modest gulch]

Very disappointed, someone help me pick... https://raider.io/characters/us/area-52/Reidi. I'm thinking the damn hoof

[high drum]

sorry for ur loss

[tender cove]

blowing cd's to support trinket use?

[slim dove]

its shield wall

up every minute

you can't block parry or dodge while channeling

[tender cove]

and if someone dies?

[pallid quiver]

You can

also just like, press grieftorch when you press SW

[slim dove]

so again how would you argue

[sick sentinel]

legs is haste versa and gives me 2/4

[pallid quiver]

they shouldn't stand in shit?

[slim dove]

the fuck is that my problem lmao

[tender cove]

because grief is up and you dont have wall?

[slim dove]

???

[high drum]

grief anyway

dab

[slim dove]

how tf is that relavent to someone dying

you dont need wall outside of busters

[pallid quiver]

if they die, then it's a good thing i used grief then, actually

[slim dove]

obv you dont blow wall before said buster hits

[tender cove]

I have no idea because the OP argument doesn't make sense

[vivid rover]

highest ilvl would replace my tier pants

[high drum]

you asked when you would wall without dstance

I told you

[round pendant]

what ilvl are your pants

[high drum]

you are too stupid to understand wht

[pallid quiver]

Your own argument is literally the one that doesn't make sense; you have to make accommodations for when you use grieftorch, because you can't block during it

[frank hemlock]

is our sim string broken? im getting errors because of talent changes it seems

Is it only me?

[stable valve]

go 418 tier chest or 421 eranog ring?
have a heroic eranog ring and 408 tier chest atm

[vivid rover]

408, but I'd also lose out on 4 piece bonus

[pallid quiver]

And pressing Shield Wall is a way to get that damage without risking your life

[tender cove]

Just dont think its needed for a 2 sec channel but w/e, you do you.

[round pendant]

shoulda done more m+ heheh

[vivid rover]

meh

[high drum]

it's not needed for anything

so why not use it during torch

[tulip kelp]

So.. anyone else mind chiming in? 421 chest or 421 boots? I have 395 tier chest and 402 boots. I’m already using CC on my 421 helm this week.

[pallid quiver]

I mean, from all I can tell, you'd more enjoy just playing in D Stance all the time, Freak, so feel free to do so. If you want to turtle, go ahead

[round pendant]

If you die without def stance, the problem isn't lack of def stance

def stance is useless, fight me.

[tender cove]

ok bro

[pallid quiver]

it makes me feel comfy when i run into a birb on tyr week

because otherwise i feel mental pain

[tender cove]

Is that your takeaway from this? I thought you were smarter but ohh well.

[pallid quiver]

I appreciate the insult 🙂

[round pendant]

pls argue elsewhere thanks

[high drum]

so when do you grieftorch then?

[naive panther]

juicy 2 tier pieces a weapon and puzzle box lol

[high drum]

when you are in dstance aha

never I'm guessing

[round pendant]

There's lots of times where you can get grief channel off