protection

[vernal sky]

a heavy physical group would consider a fury for shout but if they got a pwar there's no value in taking one

[main jewel]

Eh we have fear, but yeah, no AoE Stun or RoP or infinites single stun

But that don't even matter

The problem is the damage is poo poo

Utility is a meme

[fallen pulsar]

Does fury not have shockwave?

[round cliff]

they dont take it

[main jewel]

It's kinda unspeccable

[fallen pulsar]

Ah rip

[main jewel]

You lose a lot of damage if you take it

[fallen pulsar]

Fair enough

[main jewel]

And we already have subpar damage

[vernal sky]

idk to me utility matters quite a bit when it comes to picking a melee in my groups

[fallen pulsar]

I have not run as any dps specs this expac so I haven’t seen the dps struggle bus

[main jewel]

Fury is trash

Sadly

I'm leveling an enhancement but meh I just like fury too much

[fallen pulsar]

I’d say utility is really important for high keys tbh. As long as it’s not a dogwater damage spec, damage isn’t as important since most specs can do enough damage

[main jewel]

But the problem isn't even that our damage is subpar, our optimal build plays like shit too

[fallen pulsar]

Only certain outliers make their damage their utility

[twilit jungle]

what stat for whelp trinket? thinking haste

[main jewel]

The problem is prot being too strong, let blizzard make this party over soon plz

I need to pug

[fallen pulsar]

Hey man, I wouldnt be asking for fury nerfs if the shoe was on the other foot 😛

[vernal sky]

for fury to be worth considering it'd need extraordinary dps atm since they bring nothing else

[main jewel]

I mean a tank is getting taken don't matter the spec

If you have a big Io as a tank it doesn't matter what tank you are

You are joining any key you apply

[pallid quiver]

lies and slander, can confirm from S3/S4 shadowlands

i got turned down from +4s after clearing +16s on my prot war because they wouldn't be able to clear it with prot

[fallen pulsar]

I mean, the other tank discord certainly seem to cry about prot warriors getting taken for every key lol

And yeah that too

[pallid quiver]

is the reason i was given when i asked

just take the chance of being declined from keys as "thank god i wasn't invited to that cluster fuck"

because i think a lot of those keys somehow failed

[warm plinth]

Never seen the listings "need bdk" huh

[vernal sky]

i get turned down relatively frequently as brewmaster

[tender cove]

Same is true for big dick dps. Maybe thats the core issue?

[vernal sky]

but lately i see more people understanding that player skill > class in my pick up groups

[fallen pulsar]

Idk tbh, I’m always surprised that they dont tune warrior dps to be on the higher end of damage, considering we’re not much tankier than other specs and other specs get way more utility on top of their damage. Like rogues are nuts lmao. They’re what I feel like warrior dps should look like

[main jewel]

Not really, as I said, I don't get accepted to 18s and I have timed like every 19 I think or close

[dim knoll]

@jagged pier @vital oak Thank you guys. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/malganis/scrümp

[main jewel]

Fury is a lot tanker than most other specs

[tender cove]

That's not impressive or big io though? Have you tried making keys yourself and see what people you get?

[main jewel]

Its still been shit for 6 years so yeah thats weird

[main jewel]

I mean yeah how do you think I got to my io

I'm certainly not getting into groups

[tender cove]

So then you know its a million dps for every key, specially the easier ones? Why would I take a 2400 warr when I have several 2800 dps signing?

Do you do that? Just curious

[main jewel]

Not a lot of people higher than 2600 applying to 18s when I pug my keys but maybe your experience is different

[tender cove]

But you get the point i was trying to make, right?

[main jewel]

Yes, I get it, but that's a warrior problem, I have tons of buddies who get into keys cause they bring actually good utility

Not sure what are you trying to argue

[wanton shale]

are there any hints about the drop rate of farmable sparks?

[fallen pulsar]

I think there is a considerable lack of utility within warrior that should be compensated with higher numbers tuning wise, or more utility but shrug. All specs eventually get their moment in the sun based on history

[main jewel]

They said you're expected to get 1 every couple of weeks so wouldn't change mucj

[tender cove]

That with almost 40 specs and room for 5, unless you're a really good player overgearing or over experince the dungeons, you're not gonna get invites. This is not universal to warrior.

[wanton shale]

ahh dang that's tough

[muted lance]

is the nerf too much or ok?

[tender cove]

sky is falling, reroll quickly

[fallen pulsar]

It seems pretty nothingburger. Might be bad if you were already struggling to survive. Otherwise, meh

[muted lance]

never had an issue with surviving, was just wondering if it was massive since i havent read it yet and id ask straight here

[tender cove]

answer is in pins.

[muted lance]

then instead of saying this stupid shit you shoulda said that

[tender cove]

You're like the 100th person that cant read the title of this channel asking the same question today.
So im afraid, in your case? Stupid question get stupid answers.

[warm plinth]

Can't blame us for joking about it when weve seen that question 18 billion times since earlier today

[muted lance]

alright bet my b

is there a guide you follow thats video and not text that teaches you how to tank VOTI?

[reef holly]

Darkmech on YouTube has some simple ones

[tender cove]

I prefer darkmech, short, quick overview guides

[reef holly]

[muted lance]

alright thanks

[tender cove]

Great minds think alike 😉

[muted lance]

for pugging, what do you recommend with altars on kurog?

[low acorn]

take him altar to altar till his health hits 0

[muted lance]

wonderful information

[low acorn]

yw

[muted lance]

and is there a certain altar you'd prefer while pugging

so that you dont wipe 24/7 ?

[slim dove]

storm earth fire frost.

in that order

[muted lance]

thanks

[tender cove]

reasoing being?

Its a question, im just curious about why its best or rather more what would be worse and why.

[muted lance]

i know this is in BIS gear and whatnot found on WOWHead, but what trinkets are usually best for you in M+?

i see blazebinders as good but so torn between the other one

[slim dove]

mostly intermission adds

just brainless tank/spank

[tender cove]

ahh, is it same for mythic?

[slim dove]

idk

dont think so but im not doing anything past 2/8 mythic this expac

[muted lance]

huhhh

[tender cove]

ruby seems to be overvalued. Everyone and their mama is fiending to get all totem.

[muted lance]

i have storm eaters boon

just feels like a suicide mission to use it

[tender cove]

its a trap trinket, yes, but that is the damage breakdown of every trinket.

[muted lance]

yeah not my taste

il let the dps do the dmg, prot already deals so much dmg

[tender cove]

But for m+, you'd probably want grief+whetstone or alltotem + whetstone

[muted lance]

no need to go the extra mile for extra dmg and wipe the party

[slim dove]

all-totem + whetstone is max comfy.

[tender cove]

mm, thats what im going for myself

[muted lance]

Ah i see

[tender cove]

And should get it tbh. our bdk rolled bis last raid on rumbling and he has decoration.
So should be free for me long as it drops

[muted lance]

what keys do you do?

currently sitting at 18-19's myself, would whetstone and alltotem still be good?

[tender cove]

yes

[slim dove]

pug 18-19s, do 20-22s with grp rn

run whetstone/all totem always

[muted lance]

u makin my balls tickle

now just go farm kurog

and hope it drops

also another question, i seem to run the dungeon on zerk stance instead of defensive unless the boss is a heavy hitter, even with big mob pulls i tend to stay as zerk, should i switch up and go defensive and do more offensive trinkets?

[slim dove]

no reason to def stance outside of tankbusters

[tender cove]

you stay zerk. do same and get more offensive trinkets,

[muted lance]

i swear this sounds like a suicide mission

time to deplete someones key

[weary orchid]

Quick question for y’all as I’m likely tanking a +20 TJS later tonight. How are you surviving the Jade phase of Flameheart? Typically I try to have full Ignore Pain up and I can use Impending Vict and health pot or stone and Last Stand to try to get past heal absorb but what do you all do? Any tips would be super welcomed!

And what defensive trinkets would you focus on using? Not sure I have the right ones on.

[south zealot]

pins

rotate defensives and burst the boss down

it realls sucks to tank but with a proper rotation you can manage

[weary orchid]

Okay so basically all I said? I was hoping there was more I could do lol. The jade is a nightmare

[south zealot]

not really

if you have comms with your healer you can ask for external

other than that you just gotta send it

[weary orchid]

Normally I take 1 healer external for jade 2 then I take 3 then 4 is kinda let’s hope we got through it

Thanks

[meager remnant]

does anyone know if the strike twice sword from nokhud is just a damage proc or does it actually make you auto twice?

[warm plinth]

It's just a damage proc

[cold pollen]

demo and dh are nice into tjs with hs and taunt meta to skip a strike

@weary orchid look for lepanto how to tank jade temple he explains it quite a bit

[fallen pulsar]

@weary orchid spell block blocks the hit entirely

so you can ignore one of the casts

spell block in general is great for TJS

[hazy sluice]

Spell block works for two hits, no ?

[fallen pulsar]

if you time it correctly I think

you can also use spell reflect to reduce the damage of the DoT since it's fire damage

[weary orchid]

You can’t reflect the heal absorb and in my experience the jade one doesn’t work with spell reflect. I’ll check lepanto

[fallen pulsar]

you cant reflect it

you can reduce the magic damage

spell reflect still lowers magic damage by 20%

[weary orchid]

Yeah I use that for the hit itself but 20 tyrannical still chunks and the heal@absorb is still there

[fallen pulsar]

yeah, its just to give you more time to deal with it

since it's still 20% less chunky

[fallen lichen]

It’s hard yea. I swap def stance, do spell block, double wall/reflect, impending victory after each one, healpot/hs, last stand and still hope I make it thru. Helps to hero thru that phase as warrior tank.

If you get like 4/5 strikes it’ll get really dirty

[jagged pier]

[dim knoll]

better right?

[mighty valley]

You're gatekeeping the lesser dps, that's your job

Killin it

[rare kraken]

Is spell reflect supposed to work on the dreadlord in Court? I try to use it like I did against the dreadlords in s4 but it doesn't do anything

[jagged pier]

Yep good job

[fallen pulsar]

it works on vampiric bite I think

[oak echo]

you use it on claws, not the volley

[jagged pier]

It stops the heal

[reef rock]

Just the bite

[rare kraken]

yeah I tried to use it on the claws but no reflect sound

And pretty sure the heal still went off

[jagged pier]

Yer it deflects

[rare kraken]

Maybe I'm getting the timing wrong or smth

[oak echo]

it definitely still makes the sound so maybe using it too early or too late

[jagged pier]

Well it needs to be up before he claws u

[oak echo]

yeah

[jagged pier]

I mean anything with adds u can solo

Nearly solo'd fenyr from 15% on 19

Damn guys decided to frenzy too much at the end

Didnt have leap

But the wolves kept me alive

Kill 1 heal

Kill another heal

If frenzy didnt hit hit for 800k very soloable

Cause the fixate does nothing

Might die to the bleed i guess

🤷

[cinder storm]

Depleted 2 smb 18 because people were either baiting in the middle or getting bones ritual debuff after killing skelie

Both were on time for +2

[orchid frigate]

not sure if there s something wrong with the visual for the ritual debuff

[cinder storm]

Just a huge rectangular hitbox where it ends in smoke particles and it's hard to see

Running in a line helps but pugs

[stiff tusk]

aight so I'm in a heroic raiding guild but mostly do M+ and my raidlead wants both tanks to use ritual shell with the defensive buff, is it even that good?

i feel like it wouldn't matter because my trinkets are 20 ilvls higher, right now I'm using decoration of Flame and Rumbling ruby.

[fallen pulsar]

you dont need the ritual shell defensive for heroic raiding lol

[stiff tusk]

thats what i keep saying lol, i don't think this is the guild for me tbh

[fallen pulsar]

I put on the least defensive options for raid

you don't ever take enough damage for defensive rings/trinkets to matter (heroic perspective)

its either a heal issue, not properly using your defensives/ignore pain enough issue, or a stepping in bad issue

[stiff tusk]

we havent wiped to tanks dying or anything. he just wants us to use shell because he thinks it's amazing

[fallen pulsar]

why? your other options give you way more damage

which makes the boss die sooner and less likely to kill your raid

if anything he should be asking you to take the fire proc from ritual shell, that thing sims super high damage wise for me

[stiff tusk]

because he plays Guardian in another guild and it's a good chunk of mitigation for him i guess

[fallen pulsar]

welp, rip guardian, but prot warrior isn't in the struggle bus for survivability right now lol

[stiff tusk]

idfk i'm just tired of arguing about it with him LMAO

[fallen pulsar]

ye, I'm just letting you know

its definitely weird

lol

[stiff tusk]

thanks, well at least i know I'm not in the wrong

[flint grove]

Does he also ask you to camp dstance?

[stiff tusk]

yes

[fallen pulsar]

oof

lmao

[flint grove]

Yeah no

[stiff tusk]

"I DONT WANT TANKS TO BUILD DAMAGE" from our last raid LOL

[fallen pulsar]

thats, uh, really old school thinking

[flint grove]

What boss on HC? (Not that it matters)

[fallen pulsar]

and shows that he doesnt understand the current tank meta lol

[stiff tusk]

we got to Kurog in our first week

[flint grove]

What you progressing?

[steady oar]

Get a new guild bro. Seems very controlling - no RL should dictate to someone how they should play their class (provided they are well researched) especially in heroic content…

[flint grove]

For him to want dstance and ritual she’ll

[steady oar]

D stance is for cowards

[flint grove]

It’s useful

But never to sit in

[stiff tusk]

@flint grovehe just want's it until the raid is on farm

[flint grove]

Weird

[cerulean tusk]

What if his tanks keep dying to rando shit. So he just don't want that? Rule of thumb tho, follow RLs call even if it is stupid. If it is too stupid, leave the team.

[safe mango]

Any really useful or quality of life macros that people use?

[fallen pulsar]

idk, I tend to think making the boss lose millions of HP tends to help the raid rather than hurt it if you aren't getting slapped to death

[safe mango]

Like stuff that makes ability and IP spam easier or keeping SB up?

[flint grove]

Depending on the boss it’ll give the healers something to do

[fallen pulsar]

kurog honestly doesn't do much damage at all

[short vale]

Stance dance, focus macros for control and mouseover intervene/charge on same button pmuch, and I love mouseover taunt but that’s a preference. Ah right and ip+ss to make sure u don’t lose ss resets

[fallen pulsar]

even in bstance with just IP he barely chunks you

with the buster

[flint grove]

Nope

[short vale]

Is there a chance arms uses same spellid thunderclap as us :d so we get stealth aoe buff by some meme? 😂 like the bloodsurge nerf we got

[flint grove]

That’d be insane imagine

[short vale]

Happened once, might happen again

[jagged pier]

im 99% sure we dont

[cerulean tusk]

So there is a chance

[short vale]

Exactly what I read 😂😂

[dusky karma]

They keep nerfing BV but won’t give us better rage regen lol

[jagged pier]

we dont need more rage gen

if u feel rage starved u arent playing correctly

[autumn marsh]

So prot nerfs... how bad is it

[jagged pier]

reroll now

[autumn marsh]

Nah I suffered 18 years of hunter this is a walk in the park

[mellow surge]

Hm guys

Yday there was an intense chat about bis trinkets here

Why is all totem bis for m+?

[jagged pier]

because it does good damage

and buffs and debuffs stuff

[autumn marsh]

Very good damage

Specially are

Aoe

[mellow surge]

It would be better than an Icon?

421 icon or 408 all totem

[jagged pier]

probably yer

u only use icon

if the healer and dps have it

and u would put it in the other slot

[mellow surge]

oh i see

Best combination is icon + grieftorch?

[jagged pier]

all totem and whetstone

[echo scarab]

icon/all totem + whetstone gang

[mellow surge]

huh

ok

Any toughts on the whelp aoe trinket?:D

[echo scarab]

aeo sucks for me, highest was 2,5% of my damage

[jagged pier]

good not, u should ST or haste or crit it tbh

the aoe does the same damage as the ST proc

and ST is more important

[spice axle]

i mean its not bad. is it?

[jagged pier]

terrible

[echo scarab]

fk i knew it.. well see you in 7 days

[spice axle]

people were crying about it when it came out. idk if it was memes or

[jagged pier]

could do 20s easily now we will struggle in 10s

[echo scarab]

we had a good run at least boys

[inland raft]

It sucks that they basically said they did it cuz community perception but 7% from blockable hits is nothing

[jagged pier]

still funny how if any other tank is top

they do nothing

but prot

[cyan oriole]

https://tenor.com/view/the-end-is-near-homer-the-simpsons-doom-gif-16158403

[inland raft]

Well community never cries as much unless its prot

[tacit pike]

I feel like our survivability is all we got over bdk and their insane m+ toolkit

so if they nerf our survivability we instantly fall behind

[jagged pier]

bdk is just as survivable

if not more already

same with monk

[inland raft]

Bear topping damage and healing meters and ignores affixes like necrotic? Thats fine. Prot is good, start crying.

[tacit pike]

ah and we got damage 😛

[slow epoch]

does war will still keep his first m+ tank rank after this patch? iyo

[inland raft]

Gotta love the community

Yes its a nothing nerf they did it to placate the community

[short vale]

Our dmg isn’t that big rly, just spell reflect is op in some places

[north dew]

Hello Guys. Im Doing every key 35-38k dmg overall, with no t set and 372 trinkets. Is that okish?

[untold adder]

so how are you guys doing this week? So far, ive done every dungeon on like +17-18 except for TSJ. We keep failing at 3. boss, even if i use SW on first, SW on 2. Last stand + demo shout on 3.. Either there is a 4'th because too low DPS and i have nothing ready for that and die, or healer struggles to keep me up even with all that active. I also feel like DPS keeps dying on this boss and i really dont get it why, there is 1 thing to dodge..

[abstract token]

@sick sentinel 🍼 you dropped this

[inland raft]

Tell the dps to dodge further they prob dodge right to the edge of circle and give themselves no time to react to the wave

[quick harbor]

Decoration of Flame worth using in high m+ keys?

[inland raft]

Its ok, nut whetstone+incarnate/alltotem the play

[jagged pier]

u need to use LS after the hit the hit isnt killing u its the absorb

[crimson furnace]

its what happens after the absorb, guys

[jagged pier]

and inpending victory every other absorb

[crimson furnace]

even running to the healers position if ur with an evoker helps

[untold adder]

yea i use LS + IV after the hit, during absorb

[inland raft]

And healthpot one

[untold adder]

ye healthpot the one i dont have SW for

[mighty valley]

Solve the dps dying and maybe you won’t have to make it to the 4th

[short vale]

You can have your dps hold cds and bl for p2, they’ll cry but it will shorten p2 by a bit

[untold adder]

i guess its just execution. I feel like we should never reach a 4'th because that GG, and dps fucks up sometimes so heealer spends a big CD to save them instead of being ready for jade punch

[lucid bough]

Ive to say this discord is top quality memes from top to bottom

[untold adder]

the nerfs is much less than i expected, no reason to cry at all lol

[woeful trellis]

„Opens skyhold read nerfs“ panic, what happened

[jagged pier]

we ded

[untold adder]

pins

[jagged pier]

re roll

[untold adder]

new fotm

[inland raft]

Brm is the play

[real ocean]

Good that i preped a Druid just in case for this

[jagged pier]

no druid is still worse

their new tree doesnt even work

lunar beam is healing mobs

👍

[prisma crane]

just prep a DK, cant be a modern xpac without DKs being really strong in M+

[real ocean]

I guess I should have added a /s

I was thinking about getting a DK but cant be ask to level another character at the moment.

[inland raft]

I just play prot they could change the nerfs to be a nuclear strike on the class and id still play it

[dense ledge]

not getting invited to +8s already, it's over

[inland raft]

Hopefully the wrist slap gets some of the fotm rerollers off though

[north dew]

why is noone use the talent " enduring alacrity"?

[jagged pier]

Because its aweful

Compare to the other choices

[north dew]

what are good choices?

[jagged pier]

Well if u go across the row

Vigor is just a must have

And so is shield spec

They do more defensively than enduring ever will

[north dew]

understand that

[uneven ice]

Hi! The standart builds on wowhead and icy veins are good to look right now, or there’s more updated ones?

[jagged pier]

Okay well what would u choose enduring over ?

[jagged pier]

[north dew]

my m+ build is copied from wowhead, and i always wonder why they dont took enduring alacrity but now i understand i

[uneven ice]

The pins redirect to wowhead and icy veins, but is a pin from november, thats why i asked

[jagged pier]

How about u scroll further

[frozen silo]

No scroll only ask

[uneven ice]

To older pins?

[jagged pier]

Yes

[north dew]

27 december

[mortal brook]

yall selective memory crazy, the moment bear was competitive in s2 every person started crying, bear dedge by 4 keys next 2 seasons cuz streamers and boomkins hate us

[graceful hare]

The druid redesign changed more or less nothing for the spec. Its still a buggy mess and too bottom heavy

[jagged pier]

Nothings changed

[mortal brook]

but yeah new tree is better but certainly wont make bear competitive

[jagged pier]

Why would it matter when the pin was written

[uneven ice]

Aaaaaaa now i see its edited

I saw the published time and assumed it was old, sorry

[onyx pike]

What are you guys doing to not die to Crawth on Tyrannical 20+

at some point im just out of tools to sustain it

[proven depot]

can i remove an embilishment from an item?

[mortal brook]

if it was an optional reagent embellishment yes

if its part of the piece, no

[lean gale]

What Phials do you use guys?

[proven depot]

i added armor spikes to shield but i kinda want the frostfire belt

[mortal brook]

yeah go to griftah in obsidian citadel, buy the unembellish item, get it recrafted

[proven depot]

ty

it wont reduce ilvl if some1 with low BS does it correct?

[mortal brook]

it could downgrade yes

eye in the storm for fort or high target count places like AA/hov, vers or elemental chaos for whatever else (theyre comparable, whichevers cheaper tbh), corrupting rage if you have a mixed relationship with your healer. should outgear glacial fury but you could sim that.

[proven depot]

is it worth to remove embilish off shield and get frostfire belt or make the belt without embilish?

[analog coyote]

how hard is it to learn prot and tank some m+?
im 402, with the tank basics down high high can I tank?

[jagged pier]

Imo yes

[mortal brook]

if you have fire rings from raid yeah

otherwise its just another embellish

[proven depot]

i dont have rings

[lean gale]

i dont find the eye in the storm in raidbots to sim

[jagged pier]

Its the most consistent embelishment

Even without rings

[mortal brook]

till it procs on the explosive

[velvet elbow]

Prot is on the easier side of tanks to get started however, it also has a massive top-end ceiling with things like spell reflect, movement, and knowledge of what's scary for prot and what to do about it. 402 I'd say could get you 18s-20.

[mortal brook]

if its not on the phial list, jank way to sim eye in the storm would be run a stat weight and just go from dps per point of str and guestimate your avg target count

then add to a phial-less sim

[tacit haven]

Anyone else had issues with Rumbling Ruby pulling the whelps in AV?

[amber siren]

If it's max stacks and proccing the aoe yeah it'll hit them

[tacit haven]

I thought those effects were tagged not to damage things you weren't in combat with

[amber siren]

Smart targeting is on a case by case basis

Just to clarify - I think I've had it happen, but I don't have a log to check off of

[lean gale]

What you guys think about the nerfs

[mortal brook]

if you can notice em, you're more in spirit with tiny numbers than me

[tacit haven]

looks like what happened here, wasn't sure if it bugged or if it was actually happened: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/wP47vxALNYV8qHaD#fight=last&start=166696&end=173522&type=damage-done&ability=382097&target=22

[amber siren]

Private log

[tacit haven]

set to unlisted now

[amber siren]

Sec

Yeah that's definitely rumbling ruby hitting the whelp

[sudden barn]

do we lose our spot as best m+ tank after the nerfs?

[tacit haven]

yeah, and I figured it wasn't aggroed prior since it's about the cast time of the whelp before we get the extra pack

[upper gazelle]

I didn’t see any prot nerf

[tacit haven]

wasn't sure if I had aggroed it before, but looks like not right?

[median tulip]

It's something in the order of 5-7% more melee damage taken. So not particularly significant umo

[amber siren]

Nah you didn't, only source damage from your ruby

[quasi trail]

hello guys someone of you can tell me if the nerf of protection warrior was a big nerf?

[tacit haven]

just gonna make sure to click off ruby stacks around that area I think hehe

[mortal brook]

📌 ↗️

[median tulip]

Honestly there's a pinned message about the nerfs

[tulip dune]

Hey 🙂 i'm lookin for the best trinket for my prot. I see this one on a lot of dudes, is that a really good one ? https://www.wowdb.com/items/137486-windscar-whetstone?bonusIDs=1806

[dense solstice]

Hi all... New player here, just started a few days ago. I have a question about tanks: from my research, Prot War is suggested as a good tank class for new players, because he have a strong kit and a simple rotation, compared to other classes. Is that correct? Also, how prot war compares to prot pally? In my mind prot pally was supposed to have more survivability/self healing than war, and less dmg, but this looks like is the opposite. I only care about tank specs, i'm looking at the best one to getting started. Any suggestion?

[median tulip]

I wouldn't say Protection Warrior has a simple rotation; you will be proc fishing and reacting to procs, and rage cycling very fast

[fallen lichen]

Yes, it is. The on-use does a truckload of damage. About 6-8% of your totall.

[dense solstice]

Ok, i know i cannot trust too much internet guides, lol. What you think can be the best suited tank for a complete new player? I know about tanking in general, but i have 0 knowledge about this game

[upper gazelle]

Prot warrior is very easy. There is like 5 dps talents to rotate and like 4 defence talents to rotate. It does get boring. ( I like tanking too) prot pally is a bit more complicated but no by much. Basically revolves around shield of righteous/shield throw and concetrate

[crimson furnace]

if u like a high paced class, start with us, if not, try guardian druid

and as far as toolkit, I love being a warrior

[tulip dune]

Thx for your reply, i'll try to farm it 🙂

[mortal brook]

monkastateofdruid

[upper gazelle]

I keep going back and forth between my og prot warrior and my new prot pally. I’m so torn 😭😭

[mortal brook]

6-8% of total sounds neat but then subtract the difference from whetstone not being a strength trinket

[dense solstice]

Lol i get this... I tried druid for a bit but i really don't like the shapeshifting side... I wanna look like a warrior, not like a bear 🙂

[upper gazelle]

💯 it’s all about dat transmog 🙏🏼 dragonflight I’ve mained prot pali and just last wk I’ve been lvling my warrior cause I miss it and I watched one guy carry us through a dungeon doing all the dmg as prot warrior

Was crazy

And I miss charge and execute

[dense solstice]

Lol... i know i will end up playing both... but really thanks for all the answer

[steady steppe]

moving into different forms and having different abilities based on those forms is way 2 much for my brain

[upper gazelle]

Lol I tried my hunter after a cpl year hiatus and I couldn’t manage my pets 🤪

[mortal brook]

not really weaving this xpack, tbh

was an early shadowlands thing but not doin it lately

[wraith onyx]

intervene still works on fenryr ye?

for the fixate

[amber siren]

Sure does

Just make sure they're close to you, it's the only way it can go wrong

[flat jackal]

Is double shield wall the play to go full mongo defense?

[amber siren]

You'll get more total shield walls with IW, you go double if you're expecting a particular fight to not have an opportunity to get it up again without dying

[vast goblet]

Sounds like my love life

[amber siren]

[flint grove]

Are we still dooming?

[rough egret]

Dead spec

[analog coyote]

wait what? do you really think with that gear (fury stats) i can tank this kind of key? id love to get keystone master but noone accepts me as 402 fury with 1.5k rating

so i thought about learning some prot to tank at least +15s to get sth for my vault

i cant even get into groups as fury

[woeful trellis]

u can ez tank ur own keys with that gear!

[analog coyote]

i offspec rolled a 405 shield and 402 1h so I thought about picking it up

[analog coyote]

alright I guess ill give it a try then

thanks guys

[amber siren]

Yep prot likes all stats so a shield/1H weapon is all you need to start

[analog coyote]

any tips on where to look at to get started? wowhead?

i set up some addons, skills, and copied some m+ talent tree

do you have to change talents a lot for different dungeons? or can I just roll with a default for some semi casual m+?

+16 would be enough for me

[amber siren]

Yeah the wowhead/icyvein guides are good places to start, you can change some talents around here and there for some dungeons but that'll mostly just come with experience

[pallid quiver]

Talent build base can be found in pins, I recommend IcyVeins over Wowhead since Mwahi specializes in Warrior more than Llarold

Though, honestly, read both

[amber siren]

True

[woeful trellis]

you can look at Lepans new youtube series "tank XXX dungeon like a pro" their u can pick up some usefull tipps

[pallid quiver]

The only thing of major note for talent changes per dungeon that can be very helpful is grabbing things like spell block for Temple of the Jade Serpent for higher keys against 3rd boss

[analog coyote]

Thanks so much for the Input guys

[round ridge]

Me being an average player just doing 15s, will the nerf hit me harder / same / less than the top performer?

Also I've average gear (around 396-397) and I always stay in defensive stance. When should I stay in battle stance?

[mortal brook]

hit you for less than a key's worth of consideration

you should def stance when you need a defensive

treat it like a cooldown instead of a default

[unborn forge]

I always Def stance in pugs

[round ridge]

I don't have any tier set for the note

[woeful trellis]

i never def stance under +21

[unborn forge]

Not even when you could get hit by a tank buster in fortified trash?

[woeful trellis]

oh not true first pull HoV the dragonbreath

we have so much, for every pack just dont overlap it

[unborn forge]

And ofc any boss tank buster this week

[woeful trellis]

when ur under +400 u can go DS at some bosses yes, no shame but i like to play at the edges

[flint cliff]

Like most streaming protwarrs and ppl act surprised when prot nerfs come😆😆

[round ridge]

I've been able to do 20s last 3 seasons I feel this one Is much more brutal.
I suppose BS is not really 10% more damage since we'd have more leech and more absorb from BrV
How much more damage should I expect?

[woeful trellis]

😄 true

[round ridge]

Also do you use semi cheat death talent?

[amber siren]

BSV is either bugged and bad, or fixed and still bad

So pick your poison on that one

[onyx vessel]

Dont need the cheat death for 20s

Simply dont die

[cold pollen]

how do you guys pop orbs, i find it 'difficult' since we don't really have a filler gcd to do it

[onyx vessel]

[onyx vessel]

Yell at the healer

[amber siren]

Help when reasonable but prot warrior isn't great with orbs

[onyx vessel]

Healer job

[amber siren]

So party job

[round ridge]

Heroic throw 😂

[onyx vessel]

Auto them

[cold pollen]

tbh i find heroic throw decent but the range limitation is aidd

[mortal brook]

use your autoattacks

[onyx vessel]

Or find a healer yell at them to do it

[cold pollen]

and does killing one reset IV?

[amber siren]

Nope

[cold pollen]

😦

[mortal brook]

used to. was kinda busted

spores in last boss underrot, etc. good stuff

[round ridge]

We need to kite for sanguine so you have range sometimes
If you charge explosive then you auto them also right?

[woeful trellis]

oh yes how often i killed it solo 😄 😄 : D

[onyx vessel]

Charge does dmg

Even reg charge

Does about same as heroic throw

[brave jungle]

Is it BM to need on Grieftorch as tank?

[round ridge]

At least it does not feel a wasted global

[onyx vessel]

Would go offspec need

Not main spec

[amber siren]

Tbh in a pug I'd need it

[hardy fractal]

do yall just battle stance for the entirety of heroic vault

[amber siren]

Not in a guild run

@hardy fractal

[hardy fractal]

except maybe mt on brood

[lean gale]

Is ruby whelp shell now good or not 😄

[brave jungle]

Fuck it. I greeded it. 9 people were need, so

[onyx vessel]

Matter if you are a chad or not

[unborn forge]

I m climbing to +17 right now. Started last week, was a guardian druid main. What do you guys recommend skipping with pugs in HOV this week? I pugs mostly and the dps is usually not "ideal"

[amber siren]

Jury still out on ruby but probably not

[onyx vessel]

If your dying its cuz taunt swap fail or cd mismanagement not dstance

[hardy fractal]

fire shot was 9.2% of my dmg on my prot pally orange parses

[harsh spruce]

best crafter gear to get? and embellishments?

[amber siren]

Weapon/shield, belt if you have the ring, rest go for lowest ilvl slots

[sudden gazelle]

Does ruby whelp training increase the PPM or dmg or both?

[onyx vessel]

Lariet tho

[harsh spruce]

i have got neck weapon and shield

[onyx vessel]

Missing the 4th

[woeful trellis]

u can have 4 atm 😉

[onyx vessel]

Soon 5th

[harsh spruce]

what should i craft?

[onyx vessel]

Low ilvl peice or belt with fire rings from raid

Ring*

[harsh spruce]

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/eu/silvermoon/lutros

bracers any good?

[woeful trellis]

go ingi and get 418 cr 😄

[amber siren]

Yeah bracers are decent to pick, plus not a tier slot so don't need to worry about that

[woeful trellis]

i crafted the helmet and hate me 2 weeks later 😄

[harsh spruce]

i mean i ahve 4 set, only head free at moment

what embellishments you all carrying?

[clear pasture]

anyone know if trinkets snapshot with avatar?

[hardy fractal]

for ppl asking about shell on tank

this is a 408 with all st trained

[amber siren]

Nope snapshotting hasn't been a thing for a long time

[placid vale]

Not bad tbh

[clear pasture]

tyvm

guess ive just been missing out on a ton of dmg trying to lineup with avatar lol

[amber siren]

Yeah, just use CD's when they come up

More CD uptime = more DPS

[warm plinth]

Neither. It just makes it so when it does proc, it's more likely to proc the thing you trained.

[warm plinth]

Most damage CDs (including Avatar) are whitelisted. They only affect actual abilities, not trinkets/potions/other items.

[flat jackal]

how many levels?

[flat jackal]

Wait, is that in keys or raid?

[warm plinth]

796k damage is pathetic for a trinket

[hardy fractal]

i think it stacks to 6, that was h terros

still parsed a 95 with it

[warm plinth]

How long was the kill

[hardy fractal]

and i broke my ele pot macro

[steady steppe]

yes

[hardy fractal]

4:28

[clear pasture]

is there a consensus on when to hold ravager for avatar? like how long is it worth waiting for avatar to be up? if that makes sense

[warm plinth]

You shouldn't hold CDs for anything

[hardy fractal]

avatar just helps make more rage for anger management

[clear pasture]

good to know ty

[coarse flower]

in keys, would thunderlord or battering ram be a bigger dps increase?

[warm plinth]

Battering Ram

[orchid frigate]

is 4p worth dropping 4 ilvl overall for?

[woeful trellis]

sim

[jagged pier]

yes

[warm plinth]

In keys, yes

[dusky canopy]

althought not a likely situation, Can 4p add IP to you if you dont already have IP active?

[amber siren]

4P will add IP, but it won't refresh it

[dusky canopy]

well atleast we spend enough rage on IP to not cap rage

that its basically always huge exspecially with 4p

[warm plinth]

To clarify, 4p will create its own IP if there isn't one, and it will add to any active IP that you have, but it will not refresh the duration of the active IP.

[amber siren]

[dusky canopy]

Thats exactly what I was asking, thank you both!

[warm plinth]

Rybie wasn't wrong, just making sure the duration part was clarified

[vivid cedar]

hey can can anyone recommend me a good prot WA? brand new to warrior and not sure what is most crucial to track, im assuming shield block is the major one but not sure what other cd's you wanna keep up tbh

[dusky canopy]

luxthos

naowh

pick your flavor

[warm plinth]

Any WA suite is fine really though imo they are a bit much for pwar

[amber siren]

Yeah for sure, wording is important

[vivid cedar]

any simpler ones in mind, maybe just something with the important stuff like SB

[dusky canopy]

I think plka actually recommends luxthos in his disc so removed that one

[warm plinth]

Well, I guess it kinda depends if you typically play with action bars

[vivid cedar]

I do

[round ridge]

Is there a stupid plain WA to switch stance and track current one?

[vivid cedar]

just want something that shows SB uptime and stuff like that basically

[warm plinth]

You can use a template WA to make that in about 2 seconds

[vivid cedar]

and other major CD's I mean

still want a pack just a simple one

[round ridge]

Never messed around with WA will take a look

[warm plinth]

idk if a simple pack even exists these days. They're all like way over the top

[vivid cedar]

yeah thats how I feel about them

like ive got an actionbar i dont need every ability on there

[woeful trellis]

just get pack and delete the ones that u dont need

[warm plinth]

If you're going to do that ^

Then get afenar, not luxthos

[vivid cedar]

alright ill go for afenar and play around, thanks for the input

[warm plinth]

Luxthos WAs are notoriously a pain in the ass to modify. Afenar has all of his WAs nice and separated so you can remove them easily

[reef holly]

I found that the luxthos and afenar ones to be too “busy”. Instead of modifying these, I just created my own out of all the spells I use constantly.

[slow pawn]

can the yplease buff other tanks.. nah nerf prot warrior

[harsh spruce]

what % vers should we be carrying?

[lofty widget]

whatever comes with your highest ilvl

[buoyant narwhal]

I like quazii's WA, also super easy to change/move/delete things too

[jagged pier]

0

[harsh spruce]

hahah

[lean gale]

[jagged pier]

i mean it really doesnt matter

u dont need vers

i was running 20s with 5% perfectly fine

andys doing 26s with 10%

well 12 with icon

but a the idea we neeed x% of any stat to do any content is dumb

[warm plinth]

You need exactly 13.63% vers or you will instantly die in a +25 key

Everyone knows that

[dusky canopy]

you need atleast 4.20% for high fort keys and atleast 6.90% for high tyr

[unborn forge]

Ofc 13.64 will be a wasted and 13.65 absurd

[dusky canopy]

[warm plinth]

Yeah if you go over that you're actually inting

[lean gale]

always aim for excect 13.64

[dusky canopy]

13.63 rip key

[lean gale]

13.65 and you will not get any invites

[reef holly]

Doesn’t matter this week for mythic +. The BIS stat this week is actually a healer that can hit all the orbs

[hard birch]

Does anyone have the 4 Piece set bonus?

[dusky canopy]

no

[lean gale]

yes

[hard birch]

Does the 4 piece set refresh IP timer or only adds absorb damage?

[woeful trellis]

adds or if none up creates new

[lean gale]

No reset only sarts a new one

[hard birch]

Gotcha, my uptime for IP is about 91%. Don't have 4 piece though.

Is that your car BTW?

[lean gale]

Yes

[hard birch]

I got a Golf R 🙂

[lime urchin]

when simming for m+, what fight style should I pick?

[jagged pier]

3-5 targets 1 min

remove all external buffs

[lime urchin]

patchwerk?

[jagged pier]

yes

[reef holly]

I feel like you should get more io score for a pug group

[jagged pier]

oh yes inflate io even more

thats a good idea

[dusky canopy]

no no

LESS*

io score

[reef holly]

On that note- I think I’m going to play my healer for the rest of the week. This has been the worst week on my warrior by a large margin

[hard birch]

I'm having a hard time getting invited for +16 groups 😦

[reef holly]

The last two +14 groups I’ve been in- don’t kick important spells, healer doesn’t get all orbs, dps doesn’t help

[hard birch]

You think as a tank we shouldn't have to deal with orbs?

[reef holly]

Hard to time AV and HoV in pug groups this week

[errant sedge]

When in Melee do the orbs

[hard birch]

You guys use abilities for orbs or auto attack?

[jagged pier]

i use the group

its everyones job

[reef holly]

I try to get melee ones if they are almost exploding. But when I play on my healer, I can get all of them. So I expect this of all healers if my smooth brain can do it

[warm plinth]

Bring back 7k io

[steady steppe]

whats ur ilvl

[lean gale]

[dusky canopy]

its most efficient for the healer to do it becuase their globals are more "free" but when pugging its best to just help out where you can as tank

[uncut ibex]

should i sync ravager, roar and avatar with demo?

or only avatar

[dusky canopy]

full send always

dont bother lining up

[uncut ibex]

even avatar?

[dusky canopy]

yeah just full send

[hard birch]

391

[steady steppe]

yea no wonder

16s is the cap to get concentrated infusion

u list a 16 and u instantly get 30+ applicants that are 400+ ilvl

[lean gale]

is possible to do with this ilvl, but no one will risk his key

[steady steppe]

yea

if its 391 war vs 404 war is applying theyre gonna take the 404

[hard birch]

I got you, so basically 400+ at least for +16

[uncut ibex]

do your own key

and look for people

[steady steppe]

yea do ur own key

[hard birch]

I'm trying to get my concentrated infusions.

[uncut ibex]

i did 18s with 370ilvl

[steady steppe]

u can easily get ur key to a 16+

[uncut ibex]

just push your own

[steady steppe]

better to do ur own key if u cant get into others cause of ilvl

[hard birch]

I need to do 10 +16 mythics for the concentrated primals right?

[woeful trellis]

atm 40 🙂

next week 50

cause u can craft 5x 418

but for one, 10 yes

[steady steppe]

yea 10 makes 1

[hard birch]

1 is all I need to recraft right? I have that Primal 1H Sword @405, if I want to make it 415/418 I need 1x concentrated primal I believe.

[steady steppe]

ywa

yes

[amber siren]

once you have the infusion and you've made the item, you can keep recrafting without it

[sterile bough]

dw nothing will changes on 23s

[crude timber]

Hey, so i got a ruby shell , and i want to know , for protection at m+ , what we want to teach for maximize dps aoe /st ?

[rough egret]

Both dps and stat procs are fine

[quiet monolith]

I try to push my own key and just look at applicant m+ score... But it's shocking how many terrible people I get that can't kick or know mech

Been having a hard time pugging and pushing from 15 to 16

Started at 15 and on first pull someone raged at the healer and left. Down to a 14. Did tojs and got to last pack and while still looked like we would time it had trouble

Healer raged and left

[warm plinth]

You can sim it now. It's also on bloodmallet

[reef holly]

Hate when that happens. I mean- you made it that far…

[quiet monolith]

Yup. I'm new to tank and retail in general and actually quite proud I'm up to 2100 m+ rating but hitting a wall with finding people to run with to get into 16s

[reef holly]

Nice. Yeah I’ve hit a wall in the 15-16 range. Pug purgatory

Just need to run my own keys- which I never do for some reason

[torpid fiber]

I felt like that was a bit of an Elo hell zone. Keep crawling till you hit 2300 and it seems like the goobers get filtered out by then

[woeful trellis]

mhhh do u look at yourself first? or is it always the others? cause as prot with our toolkit u can easy manage a +16 intime cause u have the control

[quiet monolith]

I mean ya running my own keys is nice but with how often I get idiots dropping my key down, ice just been spamming 15's and no stress if they suck

[slim dove]

nah still plenty of 5iq dum dums at 2600

[quiet monolith]

To try and climb my rating

[slim dove]

can carry a sandbagging dps to hero np, most timers are pretty lenient.

[real ocean]

+1

[reef holly]

My depletes have come from explosive death wipes/dps body pulls into bosses/me being the only one kicking the important spells

[torpid fiber]

Demon hunters? Lol

[quiet monolith]

Nobody is perfect and I'm sure I make mistakes, but people dying to or not doing mechanics, not kicking, standing in shit, and doing 30k DPS overall

[slim dove]

never invite purple class.

[quiet monolith]

Makes it pretty fucking hard

[slim dove]

1/100 are god tier, kick everything, do top dam, never need heals cuz absurd leech and mobility

99/100 are beyond bad

[woeful trellis]

get that, yeah - i would suggest to find a healer mate or a meele mate. If two out of 5 know what to do u can handle it in a +16

[torpid fiber]

Imagine having a class that rewards you for interrupting and you still don’t do it haha

[slim dove]

they gen enough fury that kicking for it isn't really needed

[woeful trellis]

they dont use that talent atm most of them

[slim dove]

^

[torpid fiber]

I suppose I don’t keep up with demon hunter talent updates. My bad

[bold nimbus]

Had dk and lock with 2 interupts in whole 30min dng😂

[woeful trellis]

yeah its the same with purple class. 1/100 top tier 99/100 dont know they can do something

[mental bobcat]

Are most running in battle stance or is there any need for defensive stance

[stark jewel]

this has probs been asked before, but eye in the storm is better phial than glacial fury in m+ right

[torpid fiber]

Treat it like a cd and swap

[stark jewel]

or is glacial the play for tyr weks

[reef holly]

Also as a tank- there is only so much we can do. This week- kiting mobs all over the place out of sanguine, heroic throw every ranged orb, wasting SS on almost exploding melee orbs… dps roots/stuns mobs in sanguine, nobody kicks the icy bindings, it’s just been a shitshow/waste of time for me this week

[woeful trellis]

idk its weird but i have a rule for pugs 😄 no enchants? -> kick, Raid Talents -> kick etc. and it works ^^ a and no kazzak, sorry dd´s from kazzak are rage kiddos

[reef holly]

On my healer I feel like I can save shit groups from all this

[slim dove]

eye is better if your pulling big enough to maintain 5 stacks

[stark jewel]

aight ty

[slim dove]

the key is finding a healer to play with

[reef holly]

Was able to pug KSM quite easily in SL season 3-4 (when I started playing) without really reading any dungeon journals and just not standing in the flames

[slim dove]

then act like mom and dad bringing your kids to the park with your dps.

hold their hand through every mech

[woeful trellis]

idk for me prot > all 😄 i never dropped it cause of its kit - and i managed in every addon to do high key pugs

[reef holly]

Getting ksm on my warrior in SL was harder

[sick sentinel]

do not join a gourp for nokhud with 2 warr 2 priest mage, it is a trap

i knew it 2as cursed sussy baka group from second i joined and didnt leave

[dusky canopy]

yeah you could get away with alot in SL

"Borrowed Power" carried quite heavily

[dire matrix]

🤨

dont think bp made sl dungeons a lot easier

we just have power consolidated into talents now

[dusky canopy]

DK for example?

priest for example?

Lock?

you played it right?

lol

[sick sentinel]

sl was nice in that i had inting shout baseline

stuff like that made sl nice

[dire matrix]

not like ksm has ever required reading the dungeon journal

[zealous willow]

Off-topic question : Is there any guide how to start a new char from 0 ilvl to gearing fast with catchup gear and things to go into m15 fast?

[dire matrix]

i just look sometimes to check a damage type when i dont know

[woeful trellis]

buy 8/8 🙂

[warm plinth]

what borrowed power did locks have then that they don't now? Soul Rot lol? Their power came from their kit and their tier set.

[sick sentinel]

actually i could have used int shout final boss nokhud

[vale grotto]

quick random question: what phial you guys use in VotI? do you switch for bosses or just throw versa and call it a day? guides list like 3-4 phials reciting the tooltip

[jagged pier]

glacial

[dusky canopy]

only their 4pc giving them insane shard gen ?

[vale grotto]

so since noone else i guess it all around acknowledment? ok thought there is more discussion since i found in warcraflogs anything and beyond as phials

thx

[dire matrix]

yes

glacial

[amber siren]

Yep glacial

[vale grotto]

😄

[warm plinth]

You mean like this?

[dire matrix]

key started

but we have "borrowed power"

its weaker

but some bp got turned into talents

be it torghast powers or azerite powers

whatever the source

• we still have some weaker tier sets

and dungeons/classes are balanced for the current content

at least somewhat

[warm plinth]

Focus on your dungeon nerd

[dire matrix]

it ended

the group would not complete the dungeon in time

[warm plinth]

[amber siren]

speed run to depletion

[dire matrix]

i mean

if u do 40k dps overall as a dps

i do not wish to be near you in keys

its 3pm you cant be that drunk already surely

[daring marlin]

Soulbinds were pretty potent borrowed power and to say otherwise is weird contrarian stuff.

[warm plinth]

https://tenor.com/pcek.gif

[amber siren]

[dire matrix]

i dont think me or ghash said sbs werent bp

i just didnt list every form of bp

cuz im not tryna write a 2000 word essay

[warm plinth]

Nope, I did not say that

[daring marlin]

???

The dude was talking about it in general.

[warm plinth]

So you're suggesting that the only difference between the OP warlocks of S3/4 Shadowlands and the current destro is night fae?

He even went on to elaborate that he was referring to the tier set

Which they still have

I never said that soulbinds weren't borrowed power, and I never said they were irrelevant. But soulbinds were not why destro locks were overpowered.

It might have had something to do with them being able to infinitely spam rain of fire, not sure, but that might have had something to do with it

which they obviously couldn't do without Field of Blossoms

[dire matrix]

gottem

[slim dove]

destro always poopoo in s1

they'll be the reigning champs in a year, 100%.

[dusky canopy]

yes exactly

except it was giga busted in SL

talents arent as busted but good ye

[daring marlin]

Strange that they've retained that tier set in the tree and aren't giga busted. 🤔

[placid vale]

Dafuq is going on, this morning I was getting invited to 18s, and now they reject me all the time....

[daring marlin]

Clearly someone higher io queued up

[reef holly]

I mean… was it you the other day that was calling me out for not knowing Crawth mechanics

[placid vale]

30 min 0 invites...damn man, thats harsh

[woeful reef]

This seems poorly written or maybe it is as it says it is. Is this talent now just a flat 3% (no stacking) or 3% per stack?

[sick sentinel]

3% up to 15% is my assumption cuz you get up to 5 stacks

[woeful reef]

Yeah just seems really poorly written. Could be only the damage stacks and the block is a flat 3, but that would be a weird number for a flat number so you're probably right

[dire matrix]

no

no it was not

[reef holly]

So you got ksm this season without reading up anything?

[sick sentinel]

not yet

my secret to success is keep it as simple as possible, invite wide variety of classes and spec, always getting a lust guy, normal out of combat rez, battle rez, 1 melee+1ranged+fill dps, usually same type of splitting for pure dps classes/hybrid (mages are pure dps, shaman is hybrid)

[dire matrix]

i just played the game

and checked the journal if i didnt understand something

and spoke to other people

which is a good way to learn random stuff

[chrome falcon]

^

just farm your own key

[sick sentinel]

im shocked when people cant clear thundering

[chrome falcon]

if something goes wrong read tooltips until you figure it out

ask people

[dire matrix]

i basically never do my key unless its premade

[chrome falcon]

you don't need to research anything

[dire matrix]

if you dont understand smth journal cant answer

ask people

class discord w/e

can x be parried?

what do you guys do for y

ksm isnt even remotely hard

[chrome falcon]

fr

[dire matrix]

i think i got it on first reset

[chrome falcon]

never been easier

[reef holly]

KSM pug only? That’s all I do

[dire matrix]

ksm should be 2160 and ksh 2720

i basically pug 98% of my keys

and i was 0.1% cuttoff on my vdh before rerolling

as were a lot of the dhs i knew

[sick sentinel]

it wont be missed if i don't get KSM

[dire matrix]

and im catching back up to cutoff again

despite rerolling literally 2 weeks ago

im not tryna flex

people are way higher than me pugging

[reef holly]

Pugging ksm is not easy as tank unless you play a ton every week. Easy for a healer as I did this in SL

[chrome falcon]

pugging ksm is turbo free as tank

you have the most control over what happens in the key

[chrome falcon]

literally 70% of how a pug key goes

is down to the tank

like without trying to sound like a dick

ksm pugging as tank is only hard if you're bad, like sure don't expect to get it in your first month or tanking

but once you know the dungeons somewhat well and know core tanking fundamentals

shit's easy as hell

[dire matrix]

ksm is extremely easy with this system

[hybrid grail]

yeah same as I did (on my Guardian Druid as I started out with that Class in DF). All keys timed besides maybe 2 out of 10 depleted keys and KSM was an very easy and fast task.
However, things changed a lot since the launch. The good players are in way higher RIO now and while I am now tanking with my Warri (which is insanley fun to play) I have the complete difference like maybe 4 of 10 keys that are running as they should. The rest you have non-damage dealing DPS, quitters or just dummies that enter a dungeon, barely move out of things and just smile into the screen...

[dire matrix]

you dont even need all 15s for ksm

its like 13-14s?

[reef holly]

Yes but you can’t control other players- you can’t heal other players through mistakes. Pugging ksm was way easier on my healer for comparison not even close

[earnest nymph]

There’s always this wild disconnect between the competitive and average/casual playerbase on whether or not KSM is hard

[sick sentinel]

pugging has gamble of being very good or very bad group

you never know until you go

[reef holly]

This is coming from a player who pugs 100%, I do not make friends in this game

[sterile bough]

on every role its easy, as long as u do your job correcly

[gloomy turret]

I found. Until 2200+ pugs were.. "fun"

[dire matrix]

its relative to the time you hit x score

when i was 2200 on my dh in week 2

pugs were good

[chrome falcon]

yeah i understand that i'm in like the top 0.1% of players or whatever but still

[dire matrix]

2200 on my warrior in week 3 or 4 idk

really bad

super bad

[earnest nymph]

I don’t think people understand where the skill level of the average player actually is

[dire matrix]

well with our friend maths'

[earnest nymph]

The fact that KSM is the top 17% of players should be telling enough

[dire matrix]

we can see average char is 1.25k or so

[sterile bough]

not really

[dire matrix]

including alts

and 1 key done andys

[sterile bough]

its average characters that timed atleast 1 key

[earnest nymph]

Not sure what you’re even saying

[daring marlin]

They can surely unga bunga to ksm. Kicks start mattering after that tbh.

[earnest nymph]

These statements apply only to a semi-coordinated group

[dire matrix]

no

gonna seay that 95% of ksms are pugged

[sterile bough]

say u have 2 characters one with 2k score another with 200 score, both are applied to that data u sent

[tacit haven]

kicks matter all the time on Sanguine weeks 🙂

[dire matrix]

and 95% of kshs are pugged

maybe 99%

[chrome falcon]

right but that's probably about how many people actually try for KSM

[hybrid grail]

btw what think about the coming changes for prot?
Doesn't read like a very big nerf imo.
But on the othjer hand I am not as experienced as warri (mained guardian since years)

[chrome falcon]

if more people realised it's not that hard and actually tried it'd be harder

[dire matrix]

its in pins

its also fine

[chrome falcon]

the nerfs are pretty much nothing

pinned message edited but still a typo on tier

😡

[earnest nymph]

I’m not talking about pugging or not, you can be in a coordinated pug. I’m saying if you’re already in a group that struggles to kick things, what is the likelihood that your healer can deal with unkicked abilities

Or that your tank can survive the missed stops/kicks

[astral crystal]

Memories

[sterile bough]

considering 15s are +198% increased, its pretty easy to live

[earnest nymph]

For you

I’m saying the average player doesn’t perform the way your statements expect them to

[dire matrix]

if the average player wanted to get ksm

[chrome falcon]

that doesn't mean ksm is hard

[dire matrix]

they could probably figure it out

[chrome falcon]

anyone who actually tries can get ksm

[sterile bough]

the thing im saying is most people who do ksh just overgear it

[dire matrix]

i think ksh should be all 20s

but im not in charge

and it doesnt matter

cuz its a 4fun acheivment

in a 4fun game!

wheres 3k score ksg tho

keystone grandmaster

and 3.5k

kstg

[earnest nymph]

I thought they tiered rewards pretty good

[dire matrix]

key stone gotouchgrass

[verbal viper]

nerfs coming on tuesday - will prot fall from s-tier? any predictions?

[sterile bough]

ye

[verbal viper]

didn't seem like that big of a deal

[earnest nymph]

Extra valor upgrade tier, cosmetic at 2500, portals for 20s, title for probably like 3.1k+ or something

[sterile bough]

I mean it will remain S tier

[dire matrix]

no

it will be s tier

itsa fine

were fine

nobody panic

[junior hemlock]

Master of 17.7% is roughly 1 in 6 people. Hero is 1 in 25 people. More players get both of those than people realize.

[chrome falcon]

most of the content where pwarr is seen as wildly op it's in battle stance anyway

[slim dove]

prot dead

reroll brm

[chrome falcon]

so worst case people will just go bstance and do 10% less damage

[dire matrix]

defensive stance is a toggle defensive

and its closer to 13%

[slim dove]

never

[gloomy turret]

The nerfs are meant to bring us down to the pack more. And hopefully let other classes be played - but still doubt anyone gonna play anything but prot

[slim dove]

50-60k overall every dungeon forever baby

[sterile bough]

sadly there are times where u have to swap to dstance

[hybrid grail]

btw as a new prot here... is there something like a "rule" when to be in battle - and when in def stance?
The way I usually do it is that I play in Def stance while learning it, but whenever I switch to battle stance, I barely feel more vulnerable (keys around 14-16)

[gloomy turret]

Defensive stance only if your in trouble or out of cds

[slim dove]

def stance is a toggle defensive for mainly tankbuster mechs

[sterile bough]

every time in bstance on such a key level since its not ur class limiting you, but ur skill as a player

[dire matrix]

or if ur getting spooked

[chrome falcon]

the only content i have been in defensive stance for consistently is mythic kurog and +22s

[slim dove]

void slash, shield of light, dark claw, peck

etc.

[dire matrix]

3rd boss tjs i camp defstance cuz im a pepega

rest of the key didnt toggle it once

[slim dove]

also her

[hybrid grail]

holy.. ok 😄
guess I have to rethink my playstyle a bit
thanks guys!

[slim dove]

fuck 3rd boss tjs man, entire dungeon is an afk fest besides 1 boss

[sterile bough]

its more of a healer boss than tank

[dire matrix]

i mean

u have to have a defensive for all but yes

[slim dove]

tilts me off my rocker when thats the moment the pug healer can't keep up

[dire matrix]

thats all u can do

i died today with wall an dspellblock up

👍

[chrome falcon]

i tell my pug healers to spec for big tank nukes on me

lots of them aren't ready for it

[dire matrix]

yes i overllapped it made sense

in the key

[chrome falcon]

especially if they normally play with pala or bdk

[slim dove]

i pugged a 19 to help a friend and died 6th kick cuz we lusted on pull and dps were afk otherwise

[chrome falcon]

who can just insta remove the absorb

[dire matrix]

we can IV

every other

[chrome falcon]

yeah i normally go like

IV -> LS -> iv -> health pot/stone -> iv

and after that it's kinda monka

[sterile bough]

damn no walla enjoyer

[dire matrix]

he was doing healing cds

😦

i press the buttons that come up

[rotund thicket]

double wall talent is nice for this boss 🙂

[sterile bough]

^ this

[dire matrix]

i take double wall

and inevitably have only 1 charge up

cuz i wall on trash

🙃

[chrome falcon]

wait what

double wall talent sucks right?

[dire matrix]

cuz its a fucking 4hr cd

for tjs its fine

[chrome falcon]

am i crazy why are people running double wall talent

[slim dove]

good for tjs

[sterile bough]

why would it?

[rotund thicket]

its good for Academy too

[dire matrix]

i play it in tjs only

[rotund thicket]

for birdy

[dire matrix]

and would consider on acadmey

but also u can reduceit enough on birb

[sterile bough]

I always play double wall no matter the content except raid casue u take no dmg there

[dire matrix]

cuz the fights long

[short vale]

Run wall cdr 😉 wall on trash and twice in p2 ez

[chrome falcon]

idk feels kinda

[chrome falcon]

this is definitely incorrect

[dire matrix]

on tjs boss u cant reduce it quick enough

to use twice in p2