protection

[plush tendon]

To compensate, lots of us play on the toilet

[quiet monolith]

from heroic terros

[plush tendon]

it helps

[quiet monolith]

I usually just try to do mechanics

and not die

since im very new to prot

for the first time now im trying to figuring out how to add actualy damage in

[jagged pier]

well your running m+ talents in raid

for starters

your wasting rage u dont have

[uneven mason]

Oof

[jagged pier]

because your casts are all a bit low

like okay so

SC and avatar should have the same Cd

but u cast SC 6 times and avatar 4 times this fight

[uneven mason]

Moar slams

[quiet monolith]

ok ty

[jagged pier]

u also are running TLs so u should have more demo casts than both

but u only have 3

etc

etc

you arent pressing your buttons

[uneven mason]

Ugh TL in raid

[plush tendon]

just gotta press your buttons on CD, dont waste rage, and get some enchants on your gear

[quiet monolith]

like i said, im just starting to tank for guild because they needed it

so ill work on that

[jagged pier]

u also have greiftorch

and didnt cast it

[rugged mural]

Any dungeons you guys run Bitter Immunity on? Thinking it’s worth it for Academy with the Battleaxes and Craw

[jagged pier]

no

[uneven mason]

Grab the max parse spec from pins

[jagged pier]

doesnt remove bleeds

[plush tendon]

doesnt get rid of bleeds

[warm plinth]

It doesn't remove bleeds

👀

[plush tendon]

big sadge

[rugged mural]

Oh. I’m dumb. Thanks

[plush tendon]

yea, you cank thank Ion for that

[scenic mural]

Just play dwarf king

[plush tendon]

cant

Im a blood elf

[vast rivet]

But if Alliance... night elf bis

[plush tendon]

alliance is poopy

[vast rivet]

I'm orc.

[plush tendon]

I did think about race changing to Dark Iron.... but Id get bored of it in a week and just want to be a blood elf again

[strong forum]

Weak

[plush tendon]

Ive accepted that Blood Elf is the race for me

[warm plinth]

Hi orc, I'm dad.

[vast rivet]

Father! Where have you been?

[plush tendon]

hes been stuck in a RLP 16 no leaver

[warm plinth]

I uh...I...

[vast rivet]

One of my groups took someone unprepared for 16 RLP. (I wasn't there) they spent 82 minutes to complete.

[true patrol]

Im crafting a shield this week because i only have a 372. Is armor spikes ok? I only have element lariat equiped.

[plush tendon]

I have yet to have my own awful no leaver experience

[amber siren]

any embelishment is fine

[true patrol]

I thought so ty

[plush tendon]

armor spikes are mid, cause they dont actually put spikes on your armor

[warm plinth]

I wanna look like dark knight kirk up in this bitch

[vast rivet]

Putting a food embellishment on shield leaves you more flexible

[plush tendon]

yea, but that costs a arm and a leg

[warm plinth]

the price of that food embellishment is too damn high

[plush tendon]

and man dont got that kind of money

[solar sandal]

so...is ruby whelp shell good if we train it? o.O

[vast rivet]

Oh I made it week 1... I guess people had em up cheap?

[plush tendon]

probably didnt know what it was

[warm plinth]

yes

[vast rivet]

Actually all the bonkers enchants were cheap week 1 too

[warm plinth]

yeah it was cheap at first because people didn't realize it didn't count

[vast rivet]

Better lucky then good!

[warm plinth]

Yes sir

[vast rivet]

To me its bis! Retaining fortune cookie food is great when someone makes a mistake

[solar sandal]

do we have any values on the single target variant relative to other trinkets?

[warm plinth]

ST variant seems to be comparable to grieftorch

[indigo holly]

hey ho, short question shield of the heart or unstable frostfire belt?

[solar sandal]

...stop

really?

o.o

[warm plinth]

since you wouldn't be asking if you didn't need a shield upgrade, you should make primal molten defender @indigo holly

[plush tendon]

have they finished all the maths on the ruby whelp shell?

[sturdy sable]

Yeah dont waste your embellishment on shield of the hearth

[sick sentinel]

Gotta be trolling about whelp shell, that things hot garbage

[plush tendon]

Ive only started seeing stuff about it today

[cinder storm]

Why do people hate warriors now? Like most tanks sequences are easier than pwar

[deft socket]

is food embellishment better than having fang and lariat?

[indigo holly]

thanks

[amber siren]

it's not better, but it doesn't count towards the cap so might as well get it

[warm plinth]

6:19 fight

[whole vortex]

Isn't food embellishment "free"?

[deft socket]

Ah I didnt realize it was free

[warm plinth]

Though tbf, it was higher than usual procs on the whelp shell. It procced 9 times

[sick sentinel]

And how is that trained Ghash?

[plush tendon]

Cause we are flavor of this month, and so the season rerollers have becomes warriors, have no idea what they are doing and give us a bad name

[sick sentinel]

On enemy?

[warm plinth]

On enemy (non fire-elemental) or single target target dummy for the single target nuke

[sick sentinel]

I’ve got one rotting in my bags at 405, but I really only do m+, running toe and hunger currently. Not much luck on trinkets

[solar sandal]

sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh

[warm plinth]

that's a 421 whelp shell with a 411 grieftorch

[vast rivet]

Sand bagging the 10ilvls lmao

[warm plinth]

Not really when you consider that grieftorch doesn't even have a close 2nd right now

[vast rivet]

Yeah it's ridiculous. Should I pull my vault as fury till I get it?

[plush tendon]

It can drop as prot

[warm plinth]

get what, grieftorch?

[vast rivet]

Yeah

[warm plinth]

Guess it depends on whether you still need shield/weapon or not

[vast rivet]

418 crafted shield/weapon

[warm plinth]

then yeah if you've killed broodkeeper and you raid every week, it's worth it. Probably open as arms though, not fury

To eliminate 1h weapons

[vast rivet]

Can I limit the items in vault by only killing specific bosses?

[warm plinth]

No, once you've killed a boss once, their loot is open in vault forever

[plush tendon]

once you kill a boss, its in the table

Im hoping we kill Sennarth tonight

for two mythic boxes 😄

[vast rivet]

Good luck dude!

[warm plinth]

yeah gl

[plush tendon]

Its not me who needs luck

[warm plinth]

I believe

[plush tendon]

its people slippin

and the stairs

Sennarth 100% my least favorite this tier

[dusk sky]

hey so we talked about last night using Battle stance instead of def stance. Does def stance not generate more threat anymore or is the negatives of it just not worth it anymore?

[warm plinth]

TBF you're probably not his favorite either since you keep trying to kill him.

[plush tendon]

Yea, but I dont drop loot

[warm plinth]

Def stance hasn't generated bonus threat in a long time. And to be really technical it actually reduces your threat because you lose 14% damage relative to Battle Stance.

[plush tendon]

he has to understand that he has loot

[dusk sky]

got it, didn't know that. to be fair i havent played wow for more than a month since mop

i think i played rogue for 2 months in legion

[vast rivet]

And you have to understand that your dps' corpses taste good!

[humble haven]

Do we mostly run battle stance the entire time?

[warm plinth]

yeah

Use defensive stance as well, a defensive

[sudden osprey]

deff stance in my experience is only good to take big hits in specific place, then swap out when u dont need it

[fallen pulsar]

Yeah I’d only stance dance into defense for a big hit if I ever do use

[plush tendon]

yea, just toggle it on during a scary pull or boss (like 3rd boss ToJS during Jade) and then swap off

[dusk sky]

like when im pulling a pack that i know slaps harder than my dad or during tank busters from bosses

[plush tendon]

or if you are kiting

[fallen pulsar]

But prioritize all my other defensives way before flipping to dstance

[spring timber]

Hey guys. Which stance are you currently using?

[plush tendon]

no need to be in BStance if you running away

[sudden osprey]

last pack of TJS is big scary for me so i Dstance that

[warm plinth]

Tankbusters generally

[fallen pulsar]

Code Review Stance

[plush tendon]

last pack aint terrible

I can buy like roughly 30 seconds

[dusk sky]

thats a good stance

[warm plinth]

I'm pretty sure my warrior is currently in battle stance

[plush tendon]

before I need to dip

with spell block and double SW

[sudden osprey]

people run double SW? im still runing AM

[plush tendon]

Double SW in temple is good

[oak echo]

those don't compete with each other

[warm plinth]

You don't need to, but you can if you feel you must.

[plush tendon]

cause 3rd boss

[dusk sky]

let me send u my PR so i can get it merged soon

[fallen pulsar]

Double sw is something I normally run in tyrannical for like RLP or TJS

[sudden osprey]

ill look into it cause TJS is one of the only places where i feel i would need more deffensives

[fallen pulsar]

Only send your shittiest python/golang to me please

[dusk sky]

🫡

[wraith minnow]

When people say they're running battle stance the whole time, are they doing 20+ keys or mythic bosses?

[amber siren]

both

[wide charm]

both i think

[fallen pulsar]

Both yeah

[warm plinth]

As far as I know, the only place you might even consider defensive stance in raid is Rasz

[oak echo]

obviously as key level goes up you'll be in it more but still the large majority of the time you can still sit in bstance into 20s

[warm plinth]

And that's just because she fucks pwar without a ...you know

[wide charm]

i don't raid but in 20+ keys i am mostly in bstance (i usually pull in Dstance cause that is the most dangerous part of the pack)

[oak echo]

you just gotta know which trash packs are scary for tank damage

because a lot of them aren't

[round pendant]

dstance needs a buff

[fallen pulsar]

Nah b stance does

Gimme more damage

[lime urchin]

wait what

[south zealot]

dstance just got nerfed

[lime urchin]

the last thing we need is a buff

[south zealot]

prot warrior needs an enjoyment buff

[lime urchin]

wait whaaat

y u no enjoy?!

[warm plinth]

idk if I can handle having even more fun

[round pendant]

You can buff dstance so it's not just "use bstance" and there's actually a choice to be made

[amber siren]

there is a choice

[warm plinth]

buffing dstance would not do that

We don't use dstance because we don't need it

Making it stronger wouldn't make us need it any more than we do now

[fallen pulsar]

Idk, I think it’d have to not reduce you damage for that to be viable over bstance as a choice

Like 10% mitigation but no damage reduction

[warm plinth]

It would just make it so we would be even tankier in the few circumstances that we DO need it

[uneven mason]

Lol when is that a problem

[south zealot]

prot warrior as it is right now is only 'fun' because its op

[amber siren]

🎣

[oak echo]

even if they removed the damage done from it you still wouldn't use it until you need it to lose out on the 3% crit

[wide charm]

so then why play bstance ? for 3% crit ?

[fallen pulsar]

Yeah

[warm plinth]

We would still play bstance

Damage is damage

[fallen pulsar]

10% mit isn’t make or break

[plush tendon]

3% crit and no 10% damage minus

[wide charm]

idk, dstance would allow more revenges and less IP

[fallen pulsar]

? How

[warm plinth]

No it wouldn't

[amber siren]

wat

[warm plinth]

We literally just use IP as a rage dump now 🤔

[south zealot]

theres no reason to change it

[wide charm]

if you take less damage, you need to refresh ip less ?

[warm plinth]

No you don't

[south zealot]

dstance for defensiveness

[warm plinth]

Because you still have to spend rage

[amber siren]

IP is rage dump city as is

[south zealot]

battle stance for battling

[amber siren]

Revenge isn't enough

[fallen pulsar]

Assuming 4 set you’re already more revenging less ip anyhow

[wide charm]

yes and you can spend that rage on revenge ?

[warm plinth]

Revenge has a CD

IP doesn't

[oak echo]

you can't just spend on revenge

you'd be overcapped all the time

[fallen pulsar]

Yeah, that too

[oak echo]

unless you play at like 30 cpm

[round pendant]

dstance should just block 100% of damage but u can't move

[fallen pulsar]

ip being off the gcd makes it the best rage dump

[warm plinth]

Revenge by itself isn't enough to prevent rage overcapping.

[wide charm]

are you guys at 100% rage on bosses all the time ??

[warm plinth]

No, because we press IP...

[amber siren]

no bcs Im using IP

[plush tendon]

100% rage bad

[fallen pulsar]

^

[oak echo]

go ahead and smack a target dummy and only use revenge

[wide charm]

so you are max ip on bosses all the time

[warm plinth]

No

[plush tendon]

yea (well no)

[oak echo]

what

[plush tendon]

I just spend it

[fallen pulsar]

Most of the time

[amber siren]

those two are not the same question

[warm plinth]

why would I need to be max IP at all times

[plush tendon]

IP is not that important to track

just spend rage

[wide charm]

what ??

[round pendant]

I just keep ignore pain up at around 50-75% and make sure I have like 30 rage

and nothing goes wrong ever

[oak echo]

you're going in circles i feel. there is no scenario outside of awful play where you could spend rage on ONLY revenge

[plush tendon]

yea, its not that important

just spend your rage

keep things on CD

and you good

[oak echo]

ignore the defensive gains of IP and you STILL use it to spend rage

[plush tendon]

if you taking a hit that cant be blocked, IP a bit more

[wide charm]

yea i know all that

[plush tendon]

but like, its not something to focus on

[wide charm]

but if you want damage

and have choice between IP and revenge

[round pendant]

what if defensive stance gave you like, a small spell reflect passive so it'd be worth on caster packs

[oak echo]

there is no choice

[wide charm]

so you have a GCD to spend

[amber siren]

it's not the same choice

[oak echo]

you don't have to make that choice ever

[plush tendon]

IP is off the GCD

I got SS and Thunderclap to press

[wide charm]

i know ?

[oak echo]

you should be pressing both revenge and IP at the same time if you want to spend that much rage

[wide charm]

so you never press revenge ?

[amber siren]

???

[warm plinth]

@wide charm ^

[plush tendon]

If SS and Thunderclap are on CD, and Im not capped on rage then revenge, If im spamming Thunderclap and SS and about to cap on rage I press Ip

[fallen pulsar]

Idk this would be like saying that the 10% damage mit during avatar if you talent IO is a damage buff and not just mit

[warm plinth]

You press revenge by default; you press IP to prevent overcapping

[uneven mason]

It gives 15% dr, so it's already worth it when you're struggling with intake

[wide charm]

my question is, outside of burst phase, do you overcap in ST?

or close to it

like need to waste rage on IP

when max IP

[amber siren]

No, because we're spending it on IP

Even if capped

[warm plinth]

You're not wasting rage on IP

You're getting CDR

[amber siren]

Rage spent is still proccing AM

[oak echo]

fora moment stop talking about max IP

[plush tendon]

Its fine to waste rage on IP if you about to cap and have things to press

[oak echo]

you don't care if you're maxxed out on IP in almost every scenario

[wide charm]

either i'm explaining what i'm saying really bad

or idk

but that is really not my point

[amber siren]

I think you're confusing yourself

[warm plinth]

We're responding to this point here.

[uneven mason]

IP isn't a waste, it cycles anger management

[wide charm]

My point :
If i take big damage, i spend more rage on IP than if i don't cause i'll spend most my rage on revenge

[warm plinth]

Taking less damage with how we currently play the spec does not determine if we press IP less, because we generally only press IP to dump excess rage.

[potent gulch]

Whats ip shieldslam macro for?

[amber siren]

prevent rage overcap

[warm plinth]

Dumping rage so you don't overcap while using your procs immediately

[uneven mason]

To not waste a ss reset

[wide charm]

so are you never out of rage, needing more in order to IP in order to survive ?

[warm plinth]

If I'm in need of going defensive stance, then I'm already pressing IP more to minimize the damage.

[uneven mason]

That

[plush tendon]

Or I got SW, Last Stand, Spell Reflect, Demo shout

[fallen pulsar]

Generally revenging to 0 rage is not ideal either

[wide charm]

but like, some bosses just consume 100% of your ip in 1 hit

[plush tendon]

so

[warm plinth]

Yes they do

[plush tendon]

just get more rage to spend

[warm plinth]

But that happens whether you're in defensive stance or not

It doesn't change how much I press IP

[plush tendon]

More rage=more CDs

[wide charm]

10% slower tho

[warm plinth]

10% slower is literally insignificant in the decision of whether I press an IP or a revenge

[amber siren]

10% slower of what? You're still spending the exact same amount of rage

[wide charm]

10% less damage = 10% IP consumed by a hit

less

[fallen pulsar]

(As a reminder this is in a hypothetical where dstance does 10% mitigation with 0 damage reduction for those lurking)

[uneven mason]

That's not how we're using ip

[wide charm]

yes and to come back to that i do believe having 10% more DR is more damage than the 1-2% dmg that the 3% crit would give

[warm plinth]

Yes, I'm aware of that. But if I'm in a scenario where I feel like I need defensive stance, that 10% damage is not likely to be the difference between my IP breaking and not breaking.

Because I'd have to be taking a lot of damage to justify defensive stance in the first place

[amber siren]

If you're in defensive stance, and you're stacking IP, then you're already expecting a big hit you can't cover

That's not an argument to use DS or IP for every big hit

[fallen pulsar]

Idk I personally think 3% crit is more valuable than any extra IP kept from dstance

[warm plinth]

In any case, this is all hypothetical because they're never going to remove the damage penalty from defensive stance.

[uneven mason]

Legit only a few things make me use defensive stance, the bleed in rlp for example

[warm plinth]

They'll remove stances (again) before they do that.

[spice gull]

could you guys help me understand ignore pain completely? like do i "ignore" some damage, in the way that i dont take it, or does it just get removed from the absorb'?

[fallen pulsar]

55% (or 50? Can’t remember) of the damage you take goes to the IP shield

[warm plinth]

Think of it as like someone cast power word: shield on you, but instead of all the damage going to the shield, half of it goes to you, and half to the shield

[spice gull]

ah okay, it felt a bit wierdly worded

[warm plinth]

The half that goes to the shield will be absorbed up to the current amount of your IP

Anything past that, you'll take

[wide charm]

i struggle to see this argument for real, 2% more dmg in Bstance, but less kiting etc in Dstance

[warm plinth]

A 10% dstance (hell the current dstance) isn't going to be the difference in whether you kite or not.

We don't kite unless we're in serious trouble

[wide charm]

can be

[fallen pulsar]

Idk I might not be in high enough keys where I ever feel pressured to dstance

[warm plinth]

15% damage reduction isn't going to stop that situation.

[amber siren]

Kiting isn't a symptom of defensive stance, it's a symptom that the pack is super fucked and you cannot survive in there

[lost ocean]

Is it better to focus on SB over IP ?

[warm plinth]

Yes

[remote venture]

Shouldn't you always have IP up?

[warm plinth]

You will naturally have IP up a lot just by playing the spec properly.

[amber siren]

If you have excess rage, sure

[warm plinth]

But you don't need to focus on making sure it's up all the time.

[quartz pond]

depends on what content ur doing.

[fallen pulsar]

Like in 17s/18s any damage tends to kill my party way before I ever even ponder it

[limpid anchor]

No

[wide charm]

i don't agree with this either, having IP up is just gonna help your healer

[stable valve]

Is there a way to sim the Ruby Welp Shell to include the 6 days of training?

[limpid anchor]

Still no, you should have it up when you need it, not generally

[wide charm]

why make him spend resources on you ?

[amber siren]

You don't have to agree, you can be wrong by yourself

[wide charm]

and when do you not need IP ?

[quartz pond]

the harder the content ur doing the harder it will be to have it everytime u need it so. point stands.

[limpid anchor]

When I don’t take enough dmg that it justifies using rage on IP

[stable valve]

If all dmg is blockable

[fallen pulsar]

I think thats a bit reductive Rybie, especially since this is a hypothetical its fine to disagree

Not like we can have in game evidence of one way or another

[wide charm]

it's not because it's blockable that it doesn't do dmg

[amber siren]

Not defensive stance hypothetical, I was referring to telling people to keep IP up 100% 24/7

[fallen pulsar]

Ah

[stable valve]

Why have IP up if you don’t use it to prevent overcapping/block and passive heals take care of it

[limpid anchor]

My hps parse

[stable valve]

It seems that you’re neglecting our shit ton of leech + indomitable + IV

[uneven mason]

Because it cycles am

[potent gulch]

Wait. Do I need to add ip to ss or ss to ip?))

[limpid anchor]

[quartz pond]

whenever dmg is low enough that u can spam revenge and ignore IP and ur revenge will do more dmg than what ur healer could do if he didnt need to pay attention to you 🙂 Now go figure that 1 out.

[uneven mason]

Iv is more of a minor cd

[stable valve]

IP first then SS

[fallen pulsar]

To prevent rage capping

[cerulean tusk]

Fair point. You don't need IP when doing normal dungeons in full mythic raidtier gear

[fallen pulsar]

Not always ip before ss

[limpid anchor]

Like idk but even without ip I don’t need big heals on every pack

[uneven mason]

Ss to IP, so you don't lose a reset caused by an auto

[limpid anchor]

My passive heal keeps me alive quiet a bit

[wide charm]

do you ever take into account healer has to heal other people ?

[fallen pulsar]

Like if you have 90/100 rage, you should IP before slamming

To get full rage generation

[wide charm]

and if he doesn't have to heal you it's way easier

[limpid anchor]

Idk how much healing you need man

[uneven mason]

Literally all healers do is heal DPS in dungeons

[amber siren]

The whole 'revenge vs IP' doesn't exist in a vacuum where you only have enough rage to press one guys

[quartz pond]

U should be able to know deepending on what ur fighting if others need healing or not.

[uneven mason]

Can all the people confused about how IP works go back to their paladin mains please.

[cerulean tusk]

Shush. We making silly arguments anyhow. In LFR ip is not needed either

[remote venture]

Do you use the IP to SS marco?

[warm plinth]

For the ultimate clarification

It is an IP macro that just happens to have SS included on it

You still have an SS button

[quartz pond]

so u can have a bind for SS, IP and SS+IP?

sounds like u can just press SS and IP 😄

[warm plinth]

No, just IP+SS and SS

It's for sniping resets

[unkempt imp]

So the macro does nothing special if you press IP off the gcd tho ya?

[warm plinth]

e.g. if you're pressing IP and devastator procs a shield slam reset

[uneven mason]

It's IP because we're always pressing it, with a ss after so you don't miss the reset

[quartz pond]

lol we're back in legion

thinking swing timers matteer

[warm plinth]

It's literally a min/max macro

If you have to think too hard about it, just ignore its existence

[quartz pond]

that takes me back

[unkempt pollen]

at what point should I stop going haste and start going into crit?

[jagged pier]

40%

unbuffed

[unkempt pollen]

TY

[deep isle]

Has anyone discovered how to train the whelp to give the haste buff? I think it's "Under Red Wings"

[amber siren]

Afaik it's targeting yourself

[deep isle]

Oh, I thought that'd be the crit buff?

[amber siren]

Oh right sorry I misread

I'll have to check but I think it's a choice between your highest and lowest stat

The stat buff you get

It's not really a matter of choosing a buff

[deep isle]

Oh, so when I train it using it on myself, it's a 50/50 between crit and haste?

[warm plinth]

I don't think there's any chance that we don't go for the damage proc anyway

[amber siren]

I don't know about probability but those are the two choices yeah

[deep isle]

Really? The buff gives like 2700 haste or crit from what I was seeing yesterday

[rapid belfry]

thinking of blood dk alt, but are they alot less tanky then us, or kinda right up there?

[warm plinth]

define tanky

[quartz pond]

about as broken as us

just not as popular

[deep isle]

My friend tanks DK blood and he seems like he never dies

[rough egret]

Diff playstyle

[uneven mason]

All the tanks are about equal

It's literally just a different process

[candid coral]

Blood DK is unkillable. They just don’t do as much damage as prot right now.

[uneven mason]

Warriors reduce damage down to nothing, some reactive healing, bdk has some reductions, heals massive damage

[cinder storm]

I know everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but people who played BDK S4 only, and won't play pwar now because "its too easy"

[uneven mason]

Luuul

Want a challenge, play BRM

[cinder storm]

Right

Or be a non meta tank and that would be your staple but no

[drifting needle]

Or just be a multi tank player and enjoy em all

[brittle silo]

Hello, is there any pref item we should use 4th spark on? Assuming I dont want to craft helmet as that might drop as tier piece. Atm i got lariat/weapon/CR wrists. Considering either shield or some cool ringo

[quartz pond]

maybe the armor one

[ocean bloom]

whatever your lowest ilvl piece tbh

[drifting needle]

Shield or Ring are good choices yeh, just fill gaps in ilvl

[brittle silo]

my lowest ilvl piece is possible tier pieces: chest / shoulders

[amber siren]

shield/weapon if they'll be your highest pieces in the slot, otherwise it's just pick whatver you want

[drifting needle]

In terms of shield/ring?

[quartz pond]

maybe cloak

[brittle silo]

On the other hand. Can you extract spark from an item?

[amber siren]

nope

[brittle silo]

So filling lowest ilvl doesn't seem like a good idea kek

[amber siren]

well if you think you're going to replace it soon then probably not

[drifting needle]

Well outside of tier is what we meant

[vast rivet]

After 5th spark they will be much easier to obtain.

[drifting needle]

Ring/shield are both good options, pick your lowest ilvl and send?

[brittle silo]

well, that makes sense

[finite narwhal]

I am starting to hate healing wars, 90% of pugs in +18 looks like this

[warm plinth]

Are you suggesting that 45% shield block uptime isn't acceptable? 😂

[uneven mason]

Yeah so many fotm who can't press buttons

[finite narwhal]

yeah and 0 shield walls 😦

0 spell reflect

its not fun in +18 to heal that

[amber siren]

not 100% IP uptime

terrible

[drifting needle]

Just like every season eh, even s4 BDK was embarrassing to watch fotm in keys

[warm plinth]

hey he used rallying cry once, that's something

[finite narwhal]

ignore pain was like this

at least it was number 1

[amber siren]

oof

[warm plinth]

what a gamer

[quartz pond]

shouldnt battlee shout be top?

[amber siren]

pain and gain though

[finite narwhal]

shows that +18 Cos is joke

[amber siren]

a real champ

[brittle silo]

oof

[warm plinth]

Pain and Gain's icon looks like a guy ready to get...never mind

[tender quartz]

I need input again peeps... In the 18-20 range, even tho Overall is a shit metric ( I know, depends on pulls, they're bigger but not chaotic ) how far are you behind your DPS usually? I am really starting to think just to get a team cause randoms are.... yeah.

[brittle silo]

On the other hand. What is expected of SB uptime in keys? I get 100% is your goto, but what's the 'reasonable' amount that you can call ys good prot this season

Got back from SoD and SB is a joke to maintain rn

[amber siren]

good uptime is it was up while you're taking blockable hits

[quartz pond]

more than 75% probably.

[amber siren]

no magic number

[fallow osprey]

you can keep it up 100% of the time so

[quartz pond]

but ofc it depends

[finite narwhal]

I am mostly ok when healing war with 70+

[fallow osprey]

there's your target

[warm plinth]

I'm a god compared to that guy

[finite narwhal]

and tbh, ignore pain helps a ton too if used to tank busters

[sturdy sable]

Or in the middle of... Never mind

[brittle silo]

ye, that's why going for 100% is not only prolly impossible but meaningless. So that's why Im talking about 'reasonable' value. Ofc it will change based on encouter

[vast rivet]

Jan 23rd, final spark quest becomes available... it gives you. Chance to get spark from doing regular activities.

[fallow osprey]

just look for 100% blocked hits then

[sturdy sable]

45% is enough downtime to say he wasnt hitting his buttons

[brittle silo]

poggies

[fallow osprey]

uptime is a bad metric, go to warcraft logs, hover over melee hits and see the %

[warm plinth]

I'm gonna get your spark from regular activities

gottem

[quartz pond]

now really is that cropped? cuz no way he wasnt using battle shout

[finite narwhal]

its cropped first 2 position, there was battle shout and into fray

[quartz pond]

ok ok

[brittle silo]

ye, but that % will be influenced by you turning your back to the mobs. It's still your fault, but different problem

[vast rivet]

I use battle shout on cd because class fantasy.

[warm plinth]

into the fray in keys

cool

😬

[amber siren]

sorry, to elaborate further - you'd be better off logging your runs and checking when you didn't have SB up and why. Any uptime number is going to either meaningless or worse, hide when you didn't have it but needed it

[finite narwhal]

You can mostly tell as a healer, when you need to babysit warrior tank a lot, something is wrong

[modest grove]

Hello guys, how can I track my m+ logs to eventually understand how to improve?

[quartz pond]

into the fray is huge wdym.

[burnt patrol]

Hi peeps. Idno if it's best to post here, or in the log-review channel (that seemed more for DPS).

I'm the raidleader of a ~500 world CE guild. Our prot warrior tank has been struggling a lot to survive mythic lately. And there's a lot of debate about whether he's running the correct builds/talents - if he's using cooldowns incorrectly etc. And I dont know enough to bring it up to him in specifics.

All I know is there is an issue. Sometimes there's been a tendency of him just dying to various things (including tank damage). He claims it's a healer issue sometimes, other times he's just surprised by the damage.

But we still end up with raid nights where he's at the top of deaths (I.e. 11 deaths on Sennath over 32 pulls in a night) and it feels like every other pull is stopped by him just dying, either to damage or to falling off.

Can anyone help me check out the logs, and give me some specific pointers?

Is it a tanking issue? A healing issue? A tactics issue?

1st night: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/7h9Ndjn6vcKJGmtf#boss=2592&difficulty=5&wipes=1&type=deaths&cutoff=3

2nd night: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/LcGwFqm3vz9MVCKA#boss=2592&difficulty=5&wipes=1&type=deaths&cutoff=3

3rd night:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/pGd8fr4Fc1R9wWPa#boss=2592&difficulty=5&wipes=1&type=deaths&cutoff=3

Similar things also happened on Terros.

Sorry for the wall of text

[brittle silo]

ye ik. I used to do that in SoD, but atm I'm at laughable key levels so idc yet as there's too many influences to take into account. Just quick look into details to check for some massive mistakes.

[brittle silo]

iirc check blocked white hits. It's your main priority

[finite narwhal]

I mean its still bonus dmg to shield slam, iirc when I played warrior on prepatch

[brittle silo]

ye, but it's pure SB uptime that increase SS dmg.

[finite narwhal]

yeah, thats why I think you should aim for high uptime anyway

[amber siren]

Yep, with the current builds you'll be running at 100% SB uptime

If you're in combat, SB will probably be up

[modern brook]

talents arent atrotious

[brittle silo]

Well, than gotta improve. only 90% last 3 dungs kek

[modern brook]

double blood borne is a bit pepega but not the reason he's not living

[finite narwhal]

As a said, wheen healing wars, I am mostly ok with 70-80+ and good ignore pain on big hits. But I can really tell quickly when he dont have uptime

[burnt patrol]

Yeah okay. It's hard to tell sometimes. I can see he's not running all the "recommended wowhead talents" but i also dno what half of them do

I ask him if he can run a more defensive build and he says nothing that can help him survive

[stable valve]

Bit of wasted rage

[brittle silo]

pretty sure there must be some WA that tracks that

[urban portal]

Do you know what he’s dying to?

[drifting needle]

Some interesting numbers on cd usage for sure

[modern brook]

he's not wrong there is no talents left that would make a sizeable impact on his surv

[burnt patrol]

I mean, you can check the logs. It's various things. Sometimes it's falling off, sometimes it's just damage

[modern brook]

like technically hes missing 10% stam

which isnt nothing but like

[stable valve]

Your best pull of night 1 he could’ve have 2 more ravagers and dragon roars

[modern brook]

really shouldnt be a concern

I'm NOT a mythic tank

but i can dig through the logs and see if i find anything thats clearly an issue

[unkempt imp]

Why do I see so many highly geared prot warrior using assembly scholars loop. Is it really that good in aoe and st?

[finite narwhal]

maybe yeah, I am mostly doing keys with my friend bdk, so I do pug tanks only sometimes for loot when he is offline. But 90% of my pugs, wars are so bad, paladins good, bears okish and Dhs squishy ashell

[burnt patrol]

The thing is, he's a really good m+ tank. He's at almost 3000 RIO - but for some reason in mythic he just keeps dying, on almost every hard boss

[quartz pond]

prot even if its rlyeasy is huge FOTM thats normal.

[brittle silo]

fotm andies. prot used to have highest APM of the tanks

[amber siren]

the proc is very strong, higher than the ilvl implies

[quartz pond]

highest apm never rly meant anything though

[amber siren]

if we're talking about the damage one, i can't remember if that's the scholar loop

[finite narwhal]

I have friend that can do high keys too, but struggle even in heroic raid, that happens unfornatelly

[burnt patrol]

Explain this to me like I have never played warrior in my life and never tanked

KEK

[quartz pond]

high apm just means u have off gcd abilties other classes dont.

[unkempt imp]

Yea it's the damage one. Does it scale well in aoe?

[brittle silo]

yes, defensive ones 😄

[fallow osprey]

had a pug raid leader ask for someone to help get his interrupts on rasz because "warriors have really bad interrupts for this fight"

[quartz pond]

gladiator stance was the highest apm the game has ever seen and it wasnt hard.

[drifting needle]

Looks at a glance down to Cd usage and IP mitigation.

[finite narwhal]

yeah, but till last week, in +18, there wasnt that much fotm rerollers that didnt know what to do, but this week, oh god, did 7 keys so far and all of them were terrible

[burnt patrol]

CD usage how? Could you be more specific. Also what's IP mitigation?

[vast rivet]

Ravager is huge damage and rage generation. Dragons roar is huge damage. Having more rage means more mitigation and more damage. Warriors have at a minimum 10% leech. So more damage helps with mitigation.

[burnt patrol]

Yeah ok

[stable valve]

This was his casts on y’all’s best pull for the first night (7 min total from pull)

[near walrus]

he also have low Shield block uptime

[burnt patrol]

y

[drifting needle]

In a kill 1 min quicker than your best on night 3, I had over 1.5m more in Ignore Pain “healed”

[near walrus]

below 60% feels pretty low to me

[burnt patrol]

Ah, now this makes sense

[stable valve]

Looks like he’s not pressing buttons enough to have high rage gen

[vast rivet]

Shield block should be cast like every 6 seconds.

[stable valve]

For warrior it feeds into your kit w/ CDR

[sick sentinel]

tell him to stop worry about damage and press more ip

[burnt patrol]

What's IP?

sorry

[lean zephyr]

hes dying because of web blast stacks tho not because of shield block uptime

[brittle silo]

ignore pain

[vast rivet]

Ignore pain

[drifting needle]

Ignore Pain.

[burnt patrol]

oh

[near walrus]

ignore pain

[burnt patrol]

lmao

[sick sentinel]

i checked, all of his death were due to low IP value

hes just keeping it up

not topping it off

[drifting needle]

It boils down to button pressing and where he’s using his cds it looks like.

[sick sentinel]

if hes not tracking ip value tell hiim to do that

[vast rivet]

@burnt patrol ignore pain is like 100k shield

[stable valve]

Ignore pain. Off GCD and will also help him to not overcap his rage as well

[lean zephyr]

in like 3/4 pulls he doesnt bother popping a defensive in higher stack ranges when it does like 50% more dmg than the last stack

[stable valve]

50% damage mitigation

[burnt patrol]

So TL;DR
He's not pressing ignore pain enough, by a lot - and he's not using his defensive CD's enough?

[lean zephyr]

so he just gets 1 shot from like sub 50%

[vast rivet]

And he isn't using shieldblock enough

[burnt patrol]

Thanks a lot.

[sick sentinel]

one web blast takes away his IP, the 2nd one kills him, most of his deaths are like that

[burnt patrol]

I'll try bringing it up to him

[stable valve]

Also use his offensive CDs more for the rage to have a much much lower SW CD

[vast rivet]

This!

[lean zephyr]

he cant cause he went full dmg talents

no impenetrable wall

[stable valve]

Easily could’ve pressed SW 5 times on that pull

[lean zephyr]

blasters just keep blasting

[stable valve]

OH

[amber siren]

IP uptime isn't a massive problem, he's just not/mis using using CDs and not keeping SB up

Like

[stable valve]

Missed that Lmao oof

[lean zephyr]

hes just tryna parse out here

[vast rivet]

Trying to parse without using shieldblock?

[burnt patrol]

Wait so is there wrong talents?

[brittle silo]

Tbf he's m+ player...

[burnt patrol]

Remember I dont know all the names 😅

of stuff

or what they do

[inland mesa]

How is he 3000 io though if he doesn't know to keep shield block up

[covert axle]

Hey I’m a M+ player!

[drifting needle]

This

[brittle silo]

Parkour

[drifting needle]

His usage of abilities is tragic tbh

[covert axle]

Don’t sleep on Ignore pain

Lol

[drifting needle]

The more I look, the more I’m like 3k? What

[lean zephyr]

he probably doesnt give a fuck about raid cause his m+ talents look good

[amber siren]

First night he was using a M+ build, fixed some talents on the third log

[stable valve]

Impenetrable wall + anger management makes it where shield wall (40% dr) has ~60s cd in pure ST

[amber siren]

Pain and gain is a weird pick

[near walrus]

should focus on survivability first then think about damage later

[inland mesa]

Granted I'm 2500 almost 2600 just running weeklies and not pushing score, I don't know what score is "good" anymore

[stable valve]

And tell him to sit dstance if stacks get high

[lean zephyr]

he was in dstance for most of those pulls too, atleast the 3 i looked at where he died early

[sick sentinel]

2800ish is title range rn

[stable valve]

Didn’t check, just threw that part in

[inland mesa]

How high are his stacks getting? As there's no reason for them to go past 5. At most 6

[amber siren]

He's not using overwhelming rage so he's probably overcapping

[stable valve]

Just not pressing IP enough

[solar willow]

Anyone willing to take a look at my logs and tell me where I'm losing DPS 😓 :
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/tNXvkFxfA7TjHaKM
"Edrolas" @jagged pier was gonna but he either forgot or didnt see my original post or isnt done being busy 👀

[amber siren]

Big true

[inland mesa]

If he's dying to stack 7, 8, etc. That's on the tank swap

[lean zephyr]

nah hes dying on like 4/5

[vernal mural]

What is good options to use spark on?

[solar willow]

I fell down the whole on Terros and fell off the platform on spiderbitch but I dont normally I swear D=

Also I've not enchanted anything cos my gear's swapping out a fair bit atm

[jagged pier]

i didnt forget i had work

[stable valve]

Lariat, shield, weapon, frost fire belt if you have one or both raid rings, lowest ilvl non tier slot

[jagged pier]

theres not much wrong

[stable valve]

This IS your work, Jakey

[solar willow]

oh 🙃

[jagged pier]

u waste a fair bit of rage and probably use IP too much if u want to parse

[vernal mural]

this is my gear rn @stable valve

[jagged pier]

but your gears not helping u

[amber siren]

@burnt patrol Also idk what your other tank is doing but no one should be sitting on 7 stacks of web blast

[jagged pier]

u wanna pay me?

[modern brook]

no but neither does your current employer

[stable valve]

Sim it imo. Shield is technically the defensive play, but ehhhh at 3 ilvl for a spark

[jagged pier]

🤔

[amber siren]

Oh wait I spoke to soon, he got 9 stacks

[vernal mural]

yea

I was thinking boots

[stable valve]

Im same boat and waiting for next spark for a fury weapon

[jagged pier]

casts a bit low as well u arent pressing buttons on cd

[inland mesa]

I hate you and your whetstone and ring

[solar willow]

ok ty,
I'll just tighten things up a bit 😌

[vernal mural]

🤷‍♂️

[inland mesa]

I can't get out of CoS jail 😦

[solar willow]

and cast revenge more >=]

[inland mesa]

My last two vaults I haven't been able to take any 421 gear and it makes me big sad

[jovial birch]

I took tokens for a socket from my last vault with 3 heroic raid slots and 3 415 m+ slots. Feels really bad 😒

[inland mesa]

I was tempted to but took 415 tier pants in case I can ever get 4 piece

Zenith token hates our raid we still have 2 dps without

[prisma crane]

the guy wasnt running IW in the pull i checked

[short plover]

Next week is catalyst tho

[jovial birch]

Isn’t it two weeks still?

[short plover]

Think they moved it up

Or so I heard

[inland mesa]

Did they officially announce it? Wowhead and icy veins have different dates and no one actually knows

[jovial birch]

Still late imo.

Should have been out a week ago at least

[inland mesa]

I can catalyst 415 shoulders to have 4 piece, but dps downgrade D:

Also have a 415 helm to catalyst with a socket eventually

Just in time for mythic raz 😕

[daring barn]

You guys think a 418 broodkeeper absorb ring w socket or 411 m+ tier shoulders w avoidance is the move from the vault? I have 2p rn head and chest.

[inland mesa]

Oh...wowhead just said patch 10.0.5 is the 24th...

And no mention of catalyst

[inland mesa]

Sim it, do you have frostfire belt to proc the ring and do you feel like you're dying and it would help?

Can you upgrade the shoulders to 415 with valor?

[prisma crane]

if your biggest problem is having a 415 helm vs 424 helm you're probably doing alright lol

[modern brook]

ring, catalyst is almost here teir is less rare than the ring

[inland mesa]

Yeah my gear is fine, just waiting for dps and healing to stop dying on kurog so we can kill it

[prisma crane]

plus fwiw 415 is less than a raw M Vault shoulder or top M+ shoulder

[modern brook]

ah yes raid tanking

[inland mesa]

Going bold and playing boon on it as we are behind on dps XD

[prisma crane]

lol yea, that point where our job gets so refined we fuck around instead lol

[inland mesa]

Because I can't get whetstone or the ring to save my life

[daring barn]

Can craft the belt so that I can proc the ring. Just wasn’t sure how good the ring is. The shield doesnt seem too big

[prisma crane]

you'll rather have the Eranogg ring

its just a bonus for the shield one

imo

[inland mesa]

Dps ring is better but it doesn't hurt.

My ring combos were
Crafted / eranog ring
Crafted / cos ring
Crafted / shield ring that you're looking at

[prisma crane]

i hate proc shields

sure its overall healing

but cant guarantee itll be up when im actually in trouble

and atm prot is only actually in trouble in small windows, at least in my experience so far

[modern brook]

i mean thats the problem with random defensive procs in general

[prisma crane]

yea

[modern brook]

but a key factor is u usually lose something for that

the ring is still a ring

[inland mesa]

First night of kurog was the first time I sat in d stance a bit until I got comfortable with his output

[modern brook]

and just does that ontop of it

you dont even pay for it in secondaries

[prisma crane]

well in his case he'd be crafting an embellishment specifically for it

[prisma crane]

seems pretty reasonable imo, fights get way less scary as you learn them

[steel canyon]

which weapon enchant u recommened when u only run m+ ? frozen thingy or sophic

[prisma crane]

sophic

frozen better for raiding

[daring barn]

I have lariot and shield spikes rn. Would get rid if the spikes for the the belt if I chose the ring

[inland mesa]

That's what I run because I thought I could will my Vault into getting me a ring

Didn't work 😦

[cinder storm]

Just saw chest drop on CoS, imagine my excitement followed by pain when the war said "soul bound"

[inland mesa]

Oh yeah I should get a valor chest to upgrade for catalyst at some point

[fallen pulsar]

That chest doesnt exist, cant convince me, after 40 CoS runs not once seen

[steel canyon]

can u explain it tldr version

[late trellis]

keep hearing mixed responses, does tank hold a stake in clearing thundering?

or should they leave it to dps/heals to figure it out

[modern brook]

you should clear the debuff

[vast rivet]

Everyone holds a stake in clearing thundering

[modern brook]

and understand the not clearing the debuff kills a pull

[fallen pulsar]

Usually clear with a melee

[modern brook]

and anyone saying "I'm ___ and dont have to" is a fucking idiot

[fallen pulsar]

I’ll heroic leap to clear it if I have to lmao

[amber siren]

Esp if you get red, you gotta make an effort

[fallen pulsar]

Better than failing it

[modern brook]

the like absolute ONLY time someone is exempt from clearing is if they have a murder circle and cannot

[cinder storm]

You have to this week when pulls permit, since people are running from shades most of the time

[tawny kiln]

the only time you don't is when you have a static that already prearranged to have clearing it be someone else's job

🙂

[fallen pulsar]

If you still have shockwave up during trash you can also do a shockwave, leap to clear, charge back combo to keep positioning

If there’s a tank targeted cleave that moves with tank, them yeah the other players should try to clear/time it to clear after the cleave

Like AV second boss, should not clear right before the cleave

[cinder storm]

You see most people clearing debuffs in high keys almost immediately, meanwhile my dps doing 1k more than me waiting til last second

[brittle silo]

thanks to that he's above tank. You should praise him

[cinder storm]

Imagine if training your ruby whelp after a month evolves him into a full fledge dragonkin that breaks the meters

[prisma crane]

TLDR sophic scales better with more targets per sims

[fallen pulsar]

Wish this was true, would be really cool

[steel canyon]

thanks bruv

[fallen pulsar]

I think waiting to clear is better imo, assuming its not a mechanically/movement heavy moment in the dungeon

However people should be positioning close to be able to clear fast once the timer gets lower

[inland mesa]

Can you actually train it to be useful and the trinket not garbage?

[fallen pulsar]

It’ll always be meh

[inland mesa]

As wowhead posts an article about it

They're in my brain

[fallen pulsar]

But would be neat if training made it evolve after x days of training

And depending on what training it got, it would evolve into a different flight

Wait lmao

There is a wowhead article

[tender quartz]

Diurna Heroic, how do we deal with eggs cause of that debuff? Any TL;DR? Cause according to tooltip would be 50k on the raid if breaking both roughly, but Idk if scaling changes much

[fallen pulsar]

Guess I need many whelp shells to train for different scenarios now

Call me a whelp trainer 😎

[amber siren]

Item restore crashing from everyone buying back their egg shells

[inland mesa]

Wait allegedly As good as grieftorch....what

[fallen pulsar]

In single target

[amber siren]

I'm not 100% sure what you're asking?

[inland mesa]

This is all a ploy to get people to not delete RLP keys isn't it?

[fallen pulsar]

Ye

Has to be

[tender quartz]

If you break an egg you get a debuff that the next does 200% or so more damage

[fallen pulsar]

Time to jump in lava

[tender quartz]

Was wondering if you delay / stagger / just do both and heal

[high drum]

you do at least 2

often 3

[tender quartz]

So no delaying just heal aye?

[amber siren]

2/3 eggs at a time depending on your route

No need to delay

Just break them

[high drum]

what i do

[high drum]

use cd on triples (except first)

[merry scroll]

does casting the shell on diff targets change what it does?

[fallen pulsar]

Ye

Wowhead covers all the targeting

[merry scroll]

whats the optimal use of it

[amber siren]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/how-to-train-your-ruby-whelp-shell-very-high-damage-or-stat-trinket-330947 if you were still curious

[fallen pulsar]

Read the wowhead article

[merry scroll]

ty

[rancid iris]

Has anyone been running a fully trained dragon?

[amber siren]

Some testers are

Probably won't see an influx for bare minimum a week from today

[rancid iris]

Ok, I need to try and train mine, have a 392 version. Makes sense why I was so unimpressed with the trinket

[deep isle]

Wow I wasn't expecting an article on this haha. Thanks!

[amber siren]

Npnp

[merry scroll]

well i learned from that article, but i guess i still wanna know what people plan on running

aoe, st or the haste buff

[amber siren]

Fire shot is looking the strongest by far

[deep isle]

Has anyone shown results for full aoe?

[tired pivot]

aoe m+, raid ST is my guess

stats are useless for the most part

with very few classes making good use of it

[deep isle]

I have a rumbling ruby at 389 so I could do a comparison once mine is trained to full aoe

My whelp is at 389 also

[amber siren]

That's a good idea tbh

I'm sure people would appreciate the numbers

[deep isle]

Best way to test it? Same dungeon/key level, all same gear except the trinket? Or should I just put both trinkets on?

[sick sentinel]

do we know if we should train ruby shell with haste buff or aoe damage?

[tired pivot]

depends on how they scale

[deep isle]

I don't think so

[tired pivot]

probably best to do 2 separate runs

[sick sentinel]

wym?

[tired pivot]

since you could be gimping the better scaling one

[merry scroll]

im at 4 for st so i guess ill just finish that

[tired pivot]

getting wrong results

o wait I am stuck in another game's reasoning

my bad

yeah your idea should work with both trinkets

[deep isle]

Oh ok. I mean, I can always do both

3 runs, one with ruby whelp, one with rumbling ruby, one with both

[amber siren]

It's going to take a bit to figure it out, it has weird PPM and even when trained it's still reporting it can use other abilities

[merry scroll]

i cant even get mine to proc now

rip

[deep isle]

Yeah I did read that as well

[tired pivot]

the trinkets are very rng based on how much damage they deal

you would have to do a lot more than 3 runs

[deep isle]

I imagine it would but unless you're saying you expect a large variation, it should at least give a good picture, right?

[amber siren]

Plus "our fireball whelp decided to cast Fire Shot on enemies not in combat within 60 yards, and we still have no idea why" is going to rule it out for most dungeons for me personally

[tired pivot]

depends

whiffed casts can happen

a.k.a. hitting the proc at 1 enemy remaining

you don't need 100 runs

[deep isle]

Ok, makes sense

[tired pivot]

but 1 of each is not really saying anything

[weary python]

Honestly I'd prob go haste on the ruby whelp shell since I have a grieftorch. Having the haste whelp shell, grieftorch, and the CoS trinket would more or less cover all bases and be quite well rounded.

[amber siren]

If it's consistent, still too early to tell if it's actually going to be viable

[still hearth]

Defensive stance terros mythic ?

[fallen pulsar]

Definitely will need more data on it, consistency issues could be its downfall

[still hearth]

or stay OG battle stance ;D

[fallen pulsar]

Even with promising numbers

[woeful trellis]

Guys i need help, idk what to build with the 4th spark

[amber siren]

snip

[woeful trellis]

Got the 1hand,frostfirebelt and ingi helmet

[amber siren]

Ah fuck wrong reply

[amber siren]

Not a bad idea to swap to take a big hit if you don't have CDs to cover, just depends. I wouldn't sit in DS the entire time

[still hearth]

aye thought so 🙂

[merry scroll]

https://i.imgur.com/Uc2ZlTG.png over 6 min

[still hearth]

weave the stances

[amber siren]

Yep, pretty much. Use as needed.

[fallen pulsar]

5.7% is pretty good

For a passive item

[merry scroll]

at 398 ilvl

[deft socket]

is CoS ring that damn good? Would you use it over 402+ilvl for example?

[still hearth]

that cobalt ring

[fallen pulsar]

CoS ring is good because the effect is free

If you have a way higher ilvl ring sim it

It would probably be better

[amber siren]

Nothing we need to craft, pick something either highest ilvl for the slot or you're unlikely to replace sometime soon

[fallen pulsar]

Free meaning, the stats on the ring aren’t worse because it has an effect. The stats it has are also highly desireable for us.

[oak ivy]

First Concentrated Primal Focus.. Do i use it on:
402 Weapon
405 Lariat

[fallen pulsar]

Weapon

(Assuming shield is already 415/418)

[oak ivy]

Shield is 411

[fallen pulsar]

Yeah I would do weapon

[amber siren]

Weapon

[fallen pulsar]

Weapon contributes way more to your dps than a higher ilvl lariat

[oak ivy]

fair enough yea

[proud dock]

are people tracking Blazebinder's Hoof to make sure the blast goes off on a lot of mobs or not wurf?

[amber siren]

Just use on CD, more casts is better

[fallen pulsar]

I forget, is blazebinder on use or passive

I havent got one in a while

[amber siren]

On use, str buildup

[fallen pulsar]

I would prob use on cd

[proud dock]

oh makes sense, str gain > flat dmg aoe

[nocturne estuary]

Guys think 398 big toe or 392 ruby shell?

[fallen pulsar]

Shell after 6 days of training if initial reports are to be believed (need more data)

[dreamy island]

so shield is preferrable to any other upgrade, right?

[fallen pulsar]

Shield is highest prio imo, gives you most survivability, which lets you push harder as a tank

[nocturne estuary]

@fallen pulsar she'll gets better after 6 days?

[fallen pulsar]

Read wowhead article in wowhead channel

[nocturne estuary]

Ok

[fallen pulsar]

Tl;dr training multiple days does affect the scaling on the whelp

But it’s still a bit funky

[hardy hamlet]

would you give up 13 Ilvls on chest or helm for 4piece in M+?

[fallen pulsar]

Probably not

Definitely not in raid imo

[sterile bough]

less dmg = NO

[heady stratus]

Guys is there an option in plater to show if my target is casting a spell on me ? like this

[sterile bough]

yes but I have no clue how to do it

naowh has palter like this

[fallen pulsar]

Shrug, depends on what keys they’re doing. In like a 20+ essentially 5% leech isn’t anything to scough at.

But if survivability isnt a concern then full send more damage

[sharp inlet]

Perhaps off the wall question, I've been looking at how the high ranked prot wars are gearing, and it feels pretty intuitive, except that on cloak enchants i see like a 60/40 split for regenerative leech over the graceful avoidance. Is there a train of thought for that? Which gives the most survivability? I would have thought avoidance, but now im not sure.

[deep spruce]

aoe effects hardly affect tanks, avoidance isnt necessary

[fallen pulsar]

I think our avoidance chance is so low its not worth getting more imo

[amber siren]

Leech is good, avoidance is OK, neither are large enough values on cloak to make any meaningful difference

[clever iris]

With devotion + all-totem; frostfire belt is a must yeah? (for m+)

[fallen pulsar]

Would prefer the leech

As it’s always relevant

[sharp inlet]

and this is why i ask questions. thanks guys!

[amber siren]

Yeah would definitely still go leech

[icy bane]

It’s a must’ve if you have the fire rings from raid, without its comparable to the rest of the embellishments

[clever iris]

Ahhh okay

tyty

[pearl bobcat]

Hey. If I only do M+ (~15 level range) should I go sophic or frozen for weapon? Icy says wafting or sophic and wowhead says frozen or sophic :S

Got a 411 weapon from vault ❤️

[amber siren]

sophic for M+

[stable valve]

Frozen more ST

[fallen pulsar]

I think sophic

[stable valve]

Sophia good middle ground

[pearl bobcat]

Gotcha, ty. I'll hit up sophic then

[nocturne estuary]

I got it without the rings because no other embellishment can get better with a drop. That's my logic

[stable valve]

Wafting is what my sims say for AoE atm

[nocturne estuary]

Hopefully the rings drop for me someday

[fallen pulsar]

You must sacrifice 42 healers and 100 dps to skyhold, then your loot will be good

Odyn must be pleased

[viral elk]

Anyone have any clue if Instigate or Blood Surge is better, for rage generation?

Or maybe they end up even

[amber siren]

Blood surge needs multiple targets to overtake it

[crimson crane]

if I were making a Lariat for both Fury and Prot, would I go Haste/Mast? Haste/Crit?

[amber siren]

For prot, haste/crit

No idea about fury

[mighty valley]

i'd go haste/crit

[jagged pier]

haste mastery is fine

[crimson crane]

thanks gamers

[lean grove]

Do you guys have ignore pain macro'd to anything or would it be potential rage wasted?

[idle inlet]

shield slam then ignore pain

[fallen pulsar]

I don’t, for min max having it with shield slam is something people do for reset fishing

[deep spruce]

Shield slam macro'd to ignore pain

[fallen pulsar]

No its ignore pain then ss

To prevent rage capping

[idle inlet]

yea

thats correct

[deep spruce]

u wrote shield slam then IP 😛

u should check that

[idle inlet]

#showtooltip
/cast Ignore Pain
/cast Shield Slam

[lean grove]

Thank you besties!

[fallen pulsar]

Question: if you consistently get avatar to cdr faster than demo shout to the point where they have >14 second difference (lose overlap window for damage), is it better to hold avatar until the full overlap window is back?

[warm ruin]

I was wondering what yall prefer in m+. Bloodsurge, rage on bleed effects. Or Battering Ram, buff shield charge. I can't tell which one generates more rage throughout a dungeon, but battering ram gives more attack speed which leads to more shield slam refreshes

[blazing condor]

keys still geting disbanded?

before i step into one

[fallen pulsar]

I use both

For m+

I believe you’d give up battering before ever giving up bloodsurge though

[warm ruin]

This is my tree

What do you drop for it?

[fallen pulsar]

Thunderlord

Better CD alignment, and not really needed

[glacial skiff]

Thunderlord is really good for harder keys. I wouldn’t sleep on it. I’d drop show of force if looking for a point.

[warm ruin]

I saw some people doing tyhat, just seemed weird to me

I'll give it a try

show of force is what I thought o drop

[fallen pulsar]

Depends on how often you realistically need demo shout

But this is mainly my opinion, I know this discussion has been had tho

[glacial skiff]

Show of force is just extra AoE dps. The revenge damage isn’t noticeable enough, and just makes tclap slightly weaker (which is again not super necessary unless you need to push dps). I use demo shout mostly on cd (save for a few scenarios) and it does work

[molten ridge]

I drop show of force for AoE kick, personally

[fallen pulsar]

Thats a pretty hot take

[woven radish]

Got a +20 HoV I need to do tonight, even with spiteful do I still triple-pull/Lust at start or would that be too overwhelming with all of the spitefuls?

[fallen pulsar]

Depends on group comp. i feel like heavy ranged should be able to kite

[sick sentinel]

Do people not often take bolster for m+?

[trail cove]

guys every prot warri i inspect has this shit talented, what am i missing? the only thing i can think of is that they want to get to shockwave, but dont want to get the other talent that increases the rage cost of revenge - but some warriors take both

[amber moth]

Is there a good consensus on what to train your whelp for? I am imagining either haste or fireball, but not sure

[strong forum]

revenge

it works with revenge

[trail cove]

really?

[strong forum]

youre just in fury spec rn

so it says whirlwind

[fallen pulsar]

Ye

[fallen pulsar]

People usually do if running itf

[trail cove]

oh loool thanks this has been bugging me for days

[fallen pulsar]

Otherwise not needed

[blazing condor]

anyone has a WA that shows when you can execute someone btw? just a text or whatever. Moved my bind around and keep missing it sometimes

[fallen pulsar]

Should be able to maintain sb 100% with hr + other block talents

[strong forum]

my pack has one ye

!WA:2!vvvZUTXnqy7Oweu1lXkUggO9qrkGqHpyhl)tAZLaTksjUv1wyxLF6jTCxoAxwVICdjx9Jl6HQdf5SYBGU2EOqpa9GFcwiu0haFOpa(jOd5k10Ql7mdhY5Jd)(gTzRkdQqRqF7EZzHcUNitgcF2gUHIeH8BkvQ0ZFYFN9R)(gB8rYjx0VVc0BUGWdJfYocgxh0O55DB6UmuisOIrCVrSuWp9EHzkTyqxyS(fPuIgcYSFQLjts)0yTov94doyejsSptCGCY5TsEud5Rp4qhdi8NQLSOiqQoVQCL5BV)nzkOhjqjKbFNGc(lJaoizHEXIrxWVwz)upuZgcUCYaqvEofRB)(DNKcYN3SDNwVOTJgDCvPqsYuAMKOzcELdVrLfadbU2dtNnErVg1962ZRBD3UtnvnJZ0(lmwm(qewqSRn9LMYj4F(luKGei9(MmGXKqDpBfohrH)sjqs8w7U7D(PFEPjT3NWuR5zuv50kMv0ezeODH3KXKa1xMXT1YHKPf)lq7ibeOUEDA2UTJbEbPjKjGCM6)wPzz8vTVDY)stGfuM6hY42Munsss6weRD3ISm91FBJBX3vqYjjVeVQ417hV9sasRJNCO210XINr4Sb2E3PUkeV6xMVDqQeq2XuGOath3Hl4WY194EM(o24WxxQk)WzQegfsG(6Rn57PLapshFxNbegVv(25hLFC(j5p6U51YpkOpJZuXynYp04Bx6WavSKXVeZ5gLMfE5KNUQuXYHf4U0CSB5crOPAVDY3Ej6gqcVmskY40)AzuIyulj2NbE4KoFWd3V2joMy(xJpdpdnAy0aXtnXm3i3oSXqYCJBBlC)Kfg7VFLSyw06TyKnLY3wI1ZeZM1RxLLTQDJraZbLQKDtEHKeOWSnddVLTgocjfKXbXalkwx3jrqOVDl8oBWF6oUdYs0SYZmugddrg7gMquQQbkmLeq(Q6UUNDHBENICSl67ifjWoym5v4Zds6UJuJfNRRzcEJnPEeo1WpdRM79U8o78o)GICq)TY7uDl)777SA9s5D2Z3FoLH6MqeqtmhJJIDLTiZshMwSvJxb9()xc)52yIbbencosyb46tSclJnk4nJKcydsfs9sufGZEUi1SmQWL2NxZRt(hpD9qiFdn3OhodPB7EN79hxVELM0iiEMcs6BNEL)Hbyg9zrMrfkI2WGqT9igvhx3LKKgtk5CLqmWWoo6K8VWFUweUIET7M)Y8hWO32CmeMPbCiayNcyULnwvpuqHkgWFrFjkjrAortkDBX8ZwMqgKh41WTzZZt3EnknJnFkZotHgxlJrxCAAOI16Bh9g9XY1JGKJlOup)jF1g2FZnIlwrJzbJ3xil0OvxGMHqtZCdLF6USiUqcRAH2OnLsHu5ll66QtZF4PsQONHfgB5I9S4pD7xbKlRJDj1JFgEediJCPtS07EfB1Xmfo)Rl7GkwD1GI)f4bLlpdpTcN4kk3t2)O9pUYW)81)d

[blazing condor]

ty friend

[strong forum]

this one will only pop up the icon of execute when its usable

[blazing condor]

perfect:)

[sick sentinel]

Pardon my noobness, itf?

[fallen pulsar]

Into the fray

[amber moth]

I can get mine up for most of the time with the basic Wowhead prot build

[inner halo]

Is Thunderous Roar, really that good? I use it on CD with packs and its always so low on total dmg %. Seems like the extra dmg on shockwave gets more dmg %

[short plover]

Even w itf you can get around 90% uptime on sb

[raw parcel]

Is there a list of best trinkets to target? And is the crafted Idol up there at all?

[short plover]

Without bolster

[fallen pulsar]

Are you syncing it with avatar + demo

[inner halo]

Yes

[blazing condor]

thing is

if you spec thunderous words

all your bleeds deal more dmg

so it ads up

[fallen pulsar]

I think shockwave does more damage, but also uses your AoE stop for damage instead of utility

[blazing condor]

even if the roar itself doesnt do all the damage

it spreads out over rend

[fallen pulsar]

But also yeah, better bleeds is the main selling point

[blazing condor]

and deepw ounds

[next burrow]

May i know what element are u guys procing on ur lariat? im only doing 17 keys

[lusty tiger]

The roar does a lot of damage

I have packs where it will do over 1 mil

[strong forum]

I'm proccing crit

Cuz damgur

[sturdy sable]

Are you using it before or after you demo shout/avatar

[strong forum]

After demo shout

The order for CDs is ravager > demo > roar > sc

[sturdy sable]

Yeah i know when to use it im asking him lmao

[strong forum]

For max damage

[inner halo]

After. I do Avatar, Demo, Thunderous. Ravager

[strong forum]

Ravager before Demo

Is more dmg

[lusty tiger]

U want to demo before roar?

[blazing condor]

pre rav

charge

demo before

[lusty tiger]

U don’t want the buff for all the roar dot?

[uneven mason]

Ravager has a tick delay

[strong forum]

avatar > ravager > demo > roar > shield charge

In that order

Always