protection

[mellow quartz]

thought we still talked cos

[uneven mason]

Rlp bleed giving me zul fkashbacks

[tired pivot]

I am super happy about my decision to level a dwarf warrior

I can skip one of those dots

dwarf actually BiS

[craggy pilot]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6QBNZsVvEfzNq4sxvUWJR7

looks like its either ring or legs 🤔

but ring i want the COS ring right? 🤔

[uneven mason]

That racial adds up so much over a dungeon

[slim dove]

sure but cos is even bigger of a joke now

just go spam cos

it drops for everyone (the ring)

[craggy pilot]

i did 25 COS yesterday

why is it bigger joke now?

[slim dove]

end boss "fixed"

[uneven mason]

Still praying for the trinket

[uneven mason]

64% nerf on boss ae

[craggy pilot]

wait what 😮

[tired pivot]

are you shuhwar or gregw

[craggy pilot]

that wasnt in the notes

[craggy pilot]

25 x +11 COS

[slim dove]

he did 25 total runs i think lmao

[craggy pilot]

😄

[tired pivot]

oh

[craggy pilot]

i could see that was misleading

[tired pivot]

that makes more sense

[uneven mason]

Womp

[meager crescent]

Lmao

[tired pivot]

I thought we had a legend walk in

just strut in unprovoked

[sick sentinel]

what settings do you use to sim for m+? use dungeon slice default?

[craggy pilot]

i am anyway

[fringe dirge]

im looking at the pins for prot page, is ilvl > haste > crit = vers > mastery still true?

[tired pivot]

no I am not talking about legendary stinkers

[craggy pilot]

ilvl > secondary stats > mastery > leech > tertiary stats

[slim dove]

yup

SPEEEED

[uneven mason]

I was going to be like bruh yesterday a 25 cos boss would've been doing like....1.1m DMG in 4s, can I borrow your healer?

[slim dove]

a single clone at +20 does 600k over 4 seconds.

[craggy pilot]

just do 25 x +11 COS at the same time

[tired pivot]

gregw actually did a 25CoS just barely above timer

40 seconds

last week

[uneven mason]

If you're standing on him

[slim dove]

yes

[tired pivot]

25 sbg only timed 25

not surprised

called it too

surprised that there is only 1

[craggy pilot]

hmm ye, looks like COS 411 ring is better than 418 Hyrja ring 🤣

[west inlet]

anyone know about sennart randomly web blastingother targets/tanks?

[craggy pilot]

range

if the guy who taunted is not in range, it blasts other people

[west inlet]

only during taunt?

[craggy pilot]

just make sure ur inside her "ring" when you are actively taunting

no aggro

i mean

if you have aggro, and you are away from her

[west inlet]

because i've tried holding the boss from so far

[craggy pilot]

she does random tank buster

[west inlet]

and it still web blasts

[craggy pilot]

we had issues with our 2 guild tanks

after we said that the issue stopped

[west inlet]

it never seems to care about range

[craggy pilot]

and i never had problem in my own pug

[glass spear]

is there any way to clear the debuffs from Strife during the Loremaster boss fight?

or is it just a kill it before it kills me thing?

[west inlet]

i mean how can it be range when it still web blasts from narnia

[inland mesa]

The twins? You swap at like 7 stacks and let it reset

[glass spear]

that debuff has no duration

I'm not talking about the Intensity stacks that makes you swap

[tender cove]

Could i get some feedback on this kill?
Just felt very rough even though we killed it.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/rGzXyWbLH9FfPAYn/#fight=last

[glass spear]

I'm talking about the shadow damage dot that keeps stacking up on the tank

[hidden axle]

why tf do i have to spam my deco of flame for 5 seconds once it comes off CD

[tender cove]

even had to go defensive stance cuz it was just rough

[hidden axle]

is it buggy or some shit

[orchid mural]

Hey all, was browsing the top prot wars, and noticed no one using the cobalt rings - no longer considered BIS then?

[urban portal]

probably lost to ilevel

[hidden axle]

yeh they probs rockin a melandrus 421/eranog fire ring 421

[tender cove]

I will recraft it soon as I get the primal thing.

[pulsar sedge]

@orchid mural they are great till you out level them with 420+ rings

[still flame]

you ever go for macro Revenge + IP as well as SB + IP? Just to make the most use of AM. In M+.

[tender cove]

ive just been equipping anything thats an upgrade 😦

[pulsar sedge]

Once you get seal, you def would drop the cobalt ring

[tender cove]

how was the playing though? I know i fucked up a couple times here and there, first time doing the fight today but it also felt like i was kinda playing my heart out and i couldnt decide if i was just getting little heals or if I was struggle struggling if that makes sense?

[urban portal]

58 seems really bad

considering its effectively rotational

[tender cove]

ohh ye, i just copied both builds and forgot to change.

[urban portal]

yeah could run srgoner rally

but i dont think that matters

he took all the defensive talents already

[golden tartan]

how much do u guys sim in dungeon slice?

kinda want some comparisons

[tender cove]

So its just talents and bad vanguard uptime? rest was okayish?

[ocean yoke]

Wasted about 300 rage from overcapping as well

[tender cove]

I copied the ST/Aoe build but on raz I was just getting deleted so started changing on the fly and just didnt look i suppose.

thats pretty huge 😮

What else can I improve? 😄

[urban portal]

rage capping is huge

[uneven mason]

Am I crazy or did they nerf dragonriding

[tender cove]

what do you think about def stance? it did make quite a big difference for the last 2 pulls but it also felt like my dps was shit

[urban portal]

i mean

if you gotta live

you gotta live

its not even a question

its just that

why do you need dstance for heroic

are you playing bad, is healer playing bad, etc

there is nothing inherently wrong permanently sitting in dstance

IMO

[tender cove]

you can see more pulls and in start I was not getting any heals for 6-10 seconds and kept dying and then I voiced my concern that it might not to be 100% me and it got a bit better but overall? it felt like the other tank got much more love

[urban portal]

its just not neccesary

58 CPM a bit low

also casting 1 IV a minute

can definitely heal much more

[tender cove]

hmm, i thought i was pretty good with IV, felt like it was on cooldown constantly

[urban portal]

i dont expect to be cast on CD
since you only need ot to heal

[tender cove]

i thought 60-65 was the benchmark after SL changes?

[urban portal]

seems like you also had 0 casts of spell reflect

can just use it for DR for any magic damage

[tender cove]

ohh ye, it does magic DR too. Forgot that tbh, no excuse :x

that's bad

[mighty delta]

soo im a bit conflicted, im pushing 20+ keys and im not really sure about what embelishment i should get after my lariat

just started playing warr last saturday

[pulsar sedge]

They are all roughly the same.

[mighty delta]

the allied seem nice but spikes also

[blazing condor]

Squeak!

[urban portal]

sense is 68 CPM

sense has 68 CPM with half the haste

sense is playing on 2400 haste

freak is on 4500

hes casting more with less haste

and yes i subtracted out squeak

thats what it says here

4513

im not gonna add his haste manually

thats work

still

holy fk

this is a clean log

0 overcap

sense is built different

[true thicket]

hey guys, im relatively new to tanking so its hard for me to feel how high i can tank keys, what would u say is a good starting point with 380ish ilvl key lvl wise?

[jagged ferry]

Should I upgrade my Lariat or Shield to 418 first?

[sonic eagle]

so is there any way i can sim Tankiness?

[uneven mason]

Not really

[sonic eagle]

ugh

[uneven mason]

Tanking is kind've a "by feel" thing

[prisma crane]

i personally don't macro anything together, nope, just make stuff like IP easy to hit, you dont want to macro spenders anyways

[uneven mason]

Like, what would you need to SIM

[sturdy sable]

We call it feelycraft for a reason

[uneven mason]

you can calculate your mitigation

it's all multiplicative

[sonic eagle]

Yea i get that but i want to decide if some trinkets are worth etc

[strong forum]

Shield

[sonic eagle]

im debating the correct combo here because of the seal

Seal + hoof and deco maybe? but i feel like scale may be a better choice

im a shield crafter

max

Sargeras =/ sorry

[tulip kelp]

Is everyone using frozen devo for M+?

[prisma crane]

sophic

frozen is better ST than aoe

[rancid iris]

Interested on people's opinions on the various shield giving items. When are you guys dropping your 385 turtleshell/ cobalt ring in favorite of higher stats. I am a m+ only player in terms of gearing. Currently have shield trinket from first boss of raid and the rumbling ruby

[prisma crane]

cobalt ring isnt getting replaced until next major content patch imo

unless you're looking for survivability

[rancid iris]

You are running the dmg proc ring then @prisma crane

[sonic eagle]

Is Seal of Diruna's used at all for tanking?

[prisma crane]

of course, the other one isnt worth it imo

[oblique garnet]

🤔

[fallow nova]

Does Lifeflame Ampoule trigger the ring?

[prisma crane]

that's what i last heard when Nom was talking about it, maybe things have changed

sims pointed that way

perhaps i need an update

[oblique garnet]

Interesting

[strong forum]

Sophic beats frozen in almost all scenarios the higher your ilvl goes

Frozen gets worse the more targets there are

[elder shale]

What do you think about the totem trinket from kurog ?

[strong forum]

Super good

[prisma crane]

ok so i wasnt mistaken, phew

[oblique garnet]

But isnt sophic uptime kinda bad compared to frozen

Its what 30%~

[strong forum]

30% uptime on 15% str

Is kinda ballin

If you ask me

[urban portal]

dang prot warrio is op then

[oblique garnet]

15%?

[urban portal]

if frozen>sophic

[strong forum]

It's like 900 Str

You have around 7k Str or smth

Okay closer to like 13% but still

[strong forum]

Ever since they made frozen devotion split dmg its shit for aoe

Frozen devotion was OP on beta cuz it was uncapped, then they made it split increased until 5

[oblique garnet]

50k down the drain

[strong forum]

Coulda just simmed it

[oblique garnet]

Cba

[prisma crane]

it's not THAT big of a difference fwiw

[oblique garnet]

Ye its not like its gonna matter on a 402 wep anyways

[prisma crane]

its about a 300-400 dps delta in favor of frozen for ST and sophic on 5 target

obviously much larger targets itll continue in favor of sophic

those numbers for my current gear anyways

[delicate brook]

can anyone tell me how valuable is 4set for prot in m+? 😄

[dull zodiac]

just getting into prot

what do u reccomend for m plus

i checked subcreation but im not too sure

[strong forum]

Whetstone + torch

Easily

[blazing condor]

sbg is a joke lol

[dull zodiac]

is the totem trinket bad?

[blazing condor]

+3 a 17 while you're semi struggling on timer with DF dungeons

[strong forum]

No, but you literally have the best trinket combo

[sick sentinel]

i hate AVaults now

[wicked stream]

@strong forum Do you happen to know the uptime on Seal of Filial Duty with the Plate frostfire belt? If if there is anything else that cant increase the proc?

[sick sentinel]

that dungeon is awful

[strong forum]

Both grieftorch and whetstone are op

[dull zodiac]

alright

[strong forum]

I don't, the only other things that can increase the proc uptime by irrelevant amounts are the on use trinkets

[void bramble]

it would be best to get my 405 shield to 418 first right?

[strong forum]

Yes

Torch + whetstone

[wicked stream]

Thanks

[strong forum]

And in mega pull dungeons, torch + boon

[urban portal]

you are probably capped on proc speed

with just belt

[strong forum]

For a bit more defensive things you can replace boon/whetstone with all-totem

[urban portal]

because the frostfire belt has a 50% uptime

[strong forum]

But torch is hard locked

The trinket is mega dumb

Yeah raid is torch + whetstone outside of dathea and council

There it's boon instead of whetstone for pad

[dull zodiac]

is there any reason to have rend on ur bars?

[strong forum]

No reason to have rend on bars

[sick sentinel]

the lower the key stone the harder it is

you guys are correct

[wicked stream]

Thanks

[urban portal]

sheesh

is it just some random toy

[wicked stream]

Do is this herb called?

[sick lark]

is there a trinket google doc?

[urban portal]

sheesh

[wicked stream]

Interesting thanks

[tulip harness]

Is there any reason to throw balls into the blue net at crawth at all? does anything bad happen if we only do red and ignore blue?

[wicked stream]

Right, was just not sure what else as a prot war we could use to help proc it.

[urban portal]

probably wouldnt even be 1%

[sick sentinel]

tyranical azure vaults is not a fun time

thats my 2 cents

[urban portal]

yeah think about it

the proc itself is like 2% damage

and you are already getting most of the procs out

so you are missing very little

[wicked stream]

yeah

[urban portal]

i mean

just sell it

scam the poeple who care

[sick sentinel]

chaotic good

[delicate kraken]

Anyone have the WA that auto marks mobs

[rancid iris]

Google dragonflight automarker

Or check out plka or dorki streams and !ui

[pine zinc]

How important is our 4pc? Should I drop from 390+ Ilvl pieces to LFR tier? (Havent seen shit all for warrior tokens so been living off vaults). Currently clearning heroic and doing 12+ keys with my friends.

[pallid quiver]

I'd almost say don't grab 4p just to learn what hurts better. Our 4P is pretty atrong defensively, but it doesn't suddenly enable content or anything

I personally wouldn't drop for 4P if it's signifacnt due to DPE loss, but

[craggy pilot]

people saying you can use Truthguard as paladin to find the spy 🤔 how do you do that when you cant swap gear in M+?

[cobalt prawn]

which weapon enchant should I use? frozen or sophic?

[sick current]

you tmog it

[sick current]

transmog it on your shield 😛

[craggy pilot]

can only do as prot right?

[sick current]

no idea

[craggy pilot]

so if i have holy pala or ret pala it wont work?

[warm plinth]

No

Any spec can transmog truthguard

[sick current]

i think you have to aquire it as a prot pally, but you can tmog on warrior

[warm plinth]

But ret will have to swap to a shield obviously

[pine zinc]

Thanks!

[craggy pilot]

how can you do that in M+?

[karmic plinth]

you can change weapons in m+

[sick current]

can a warrior tmog it?

[craggy pilot]

you cant swap gear?

[warm plinth]

You absolutely cannot transmog truthguard on a warrior

[sick current]

okay

[warm plinth]

It's a legion artifact

[sick current]

ahhh

[jagged ferry]

Bois is there anything that I need to be doing special in Lorewalker Stonestep in TOJS? I just did a +17 in there and it was absolutely miserable, I feel like I waas getting hit like an absolute truck. Was already SR Every Agony I could get.

[warm plinth]

You can swap weapons in M+

Just not any other gear

You can even swap weapons in combat

[craggy pilot]

my pala says he just tried it

and weapons are locked

[warm plinth]

You have a log? That whole fight is a healing check so it's unlikely you were doing anything wrong.

He is wrong.

[jagged ferry]

I dont have a log, I think I need to start logging though, is there a guide on it anywhere?

[craggy pilot]

ill try if i can take my weapon off

[warm plinth]

Download Loggerhead, go into the settings and enable Mythic/challenge mode for every dungeon. Download WarcraftLogs uploader. Make sure in your network settings in-game, you have advanced combat logging checked.

Loggerhead will make sure you log automatically, and then after you're done running for the day (or whenever you want to upload), you upload using the uploader.

It'll give you a link to the report after you upload as well. You're safe to delete/archive the log afterward (though if the log is from a current session of gameplay, you'll have to exit the game before it'll let you delete it)

[neon fossil]

Should we focus haste + vers or haste + crit build?

[warm plinth]

You shouldn't focus on any "build". Take ilevel, take haste on same ilevel pieces, take whatever on the rest; in the end it won't matter. If you want to maximize DPS, you can sim.

[tulip kelp]

Rotate CDs for the jade serpent strike

[jagged ferry]

Thanks so much 🙂

[jagged ferry]

Was talking about the boss before that one 🙂

[warm plinth]

Make sure you're thorough on enabling the dungeons or the first logs of your dungeons will upload weirdly.

[tulip kelp]

Ohh that one is just make sure you don’t dot both

And swap stacks

[lean zephyr]

anyone else feel like they nerfed the last boss of AV?

the orbs seem to be spawning a lot less

[tender cove]

the haste is correct ye. What is a reasonable average cpm then? And not gonna compare myself to people like sense but more realistic xD

[tender cove]

where do i find this on logs?

[jagged ferry]

Sorry @warm plinth Whats the command to open Loggerhead settings?

[urban portal]

resources

rage

[ancient laurel]

Do you swap to battle stance ever in keys?

[blazing condor]

Question asked wrong way around

It should be ”do you ever swap to def stance?” And the answer is ”yes as a defensive cd when needed”

[lean zephyr]

just checked my own vod, the orbs didnt spawn until the last 25% of the boss on +17

[tender cove]

ohh, i didnt see the dropdown, ty

[urban portal]

I’m gonna say at least 68

[blazing condor]

Did an AV today and yeah

[tender cove]

Would you say the SS overcapping is in the realm of acceptable?
But yeh, the SC one is whack, no idea it was that bad

[blazing condor]

Orbs didnt feel as bad

[urban portal]

If sense can have the same cpm with half the haste

[tender cove]

I did know i waste some in my opener because maybe i do it wrong

but not THAT wrong xD

[jagged ferry]

This is the only settings i can see atm

[tender cove]

ok, so 75 is the next goal/platue to aim for i guess

Can someone explain the correct opener? Its precast ravager, charge, avatar+demo and dump some into IP/SB and roar/sc? or?

[warm plinth]

I believe you just click on Loggerhead there

Not one of the sub-things

[blazing condor]

Matrix is breaking i had a mage who 100 logged the dg i did

B-but all pugs are terrible

[jagged ferry]

This is all I can see haha :/

[warm plinth]

Maybe party? Idk, just click all those until you see dungeons listed 😂

[proud dock]

is there a way to track BSV's internal CD via WAs? solved 😄

[warm plinth]

probably. I don't know the specifics of how to make it but you should be able to do like a trigger that counts down 3 minutes after the buff applies

you shouldn't be using BSV though

[proud dock]

yup, believe its via spell > aura applied

ehh just testing it out

[wanton shale]

is the logging via loggerhead any different than the option in DBM?

[warm plinth]

I don't use DBM so I have no idea

[wary bough]

Which 2nd Embellishment should i pick after Lariat ? Mainly playing M+ and at Most Heroic Raid

[warm plinth]

Auto logging is auto logging generally though; there are several addons that do it

[wanton shale]

do you use bigwigs over DBM?

[warm plinth]

Yeah

[warm plinth]

Doesn't really matter. Belt is fine, bracers are fine

[steel mauve]

i tried getting method raid tools to autolog and it wouldnt work for me, said it was logging but never actually did it, so i just made a macro to hit to start and stop logging

[wanton shale]

ok i was thinking about changing too cuz i only do dungeons, seems like BW + littlewigs which was made specifically for dungeons may be better

[warm plinth]

All embellishments are around 1% gain, including lariat

[cinder storm]

I use an addon called loggerhead

[warm plinth]

Loggerhead has never failed me 🙏

[jagged ferry]

Thought it might ahve been my combat that was bugging it but no options for tha thaha :/

@cinder storm How did you set your loggerhead up?

[cinder storm]

I don't recall, I can tell you though it's really straightforward

Other than enable logging via settings, that's all I remember

[warm plinth]

If you can't find the option to set it up, then don't worry about it. It will prompt you for both regular Mythic (say yes even if you never run M0) and for "challenge mode" (also say yes) when you enter a dungeon/start a key

[tender cove]

rio addon (which 99% of people have) offers auto logging.

[neon fossil]

I dont understand why Mastery/Haste is simming higher than Haste/Crit or Haste/Vers

[jagged ferry]

Thanks, and hwen I need to upload it to warcraft logs, what is the default logs subdirectory?

[mighty valley]

for pure damage, your lowest stats often sim very high

we generally default to haste 1st for the defensive value too

[warm plinth]

World of Warcraft/_retail/Logs iirc

It should automatically fill in the most recent log file for you when you go to upload

[jagged ferry]

Perfect, its all set up now 🙂 Thanks!

[eager canyon]

Is it bad that I have demo shout and avatar macro'd together

[warm plinth]

Yes, yes it is

[eager canyon]

Should I be alternating them?

Just figured burst is burst ya know

[tulip kelp]

What if you need avatar to break root

[eager canyon]

Stand still and smash

[neon fossil]

But generally speaking outside of everyone just saying haste only/highest ilvl blah blah blah... Like we all know ilvl due to the str and haste. But, my question is; Like for example Elemental Lariat - Gems do I go what the sims tell me and stack mastery or so I do the haste/vers or haste/crit build.

[warm plinth]

No, Demo Shout is a fixed 45 second CD. Avatar varies somewhat due to AM. You should use both on CD.

[eager canyon]

Yeah so my macro works then, I still track both separately and I pop both on CD

[urban portal]

Demoshout only changes based on thunderlor

Also no reason to macro

[warm plinth]

Yeah I suppose that's fine. Not how I'd want to do it but if you're' still pressing on CD then I'm not gonna stop you

[urban portal]

Because you lose a gcd of avatar doing 0 damage

Optimally you should shout then Ava

[eager canyon]

I have the perfect amount of keybinds for what I'd got, I'd have to add a keybind then add to muscle memory. Guess I should though

[urban portal]

It’s 1gcd worth of damage every 60 seconds

Up to you

[warm plinth]

Yeah it's probably a fairly minimal difference. Just depends if you find the sacrifice worth the keybind

[eager canyon]

Another question, start of raid pull, haste is through the roof, rage shooting up like crazy, everything is proccing, shield slam, revenge and thunder clap. In a single target right what's my prio

[warm plinth]

Can you explain what you mean by those simming higher

[neon fossil]

Because on the secondaries they will count to a degree... people saying they don't count obviously don't know much about how the game works when you're actually playing. Now, again going back to my question. We all know STR > Haste > ??? So therefore there is a build.. Haste + Whatever isn't really productive to state. What I am actually getting at is unless you're significantly soft-capping like with haste, then there is build. Now, before soft-capping haste does Haste/Vers, Haste/Crit sim better?

[urban portal]

Anything that sims better sims better

[warm plinth]

Make sure you are pressing IP to prevent rage overcapping

[neon fossil]

Yea, when I select all the possible gems to put into the elemental lariat, its picks +mast/+haste as the stat to put in for single and aoe.

[urban portal]

Haste isn’t even the best damage stat

[pliant void]

Why are people simming prot warrior

[warm plinth]

Then use mast/haste

[pliant void]

Get haste and Vers and go blast

[neon fossil]

No... But it's defensive.

[warm plinth]

Because...they want to do damage?

[neon fossil]

But surely haste+crit = more dmg output?

[urban portal]

So is every other stat

Crit is best damage

[neon fossil]

Haste + vers would be more defensive

[median tulip]

The Lariat's proc runs off the LOWER of the two stats on a multi-stat gem. It's probably picking Mastery as the main stat because all secondaries are multiplicative and you don't have very much Mastery

[urban portal]

Vers isn’t even more defensive

[pliant void]

Wut

[urban portal]

Vers is very expensive stat for only 0.5% dr

[warm plinth]

Vers is not more defensive.

[median tulip]

Also remember that your Sim is only simming damage, not defence

[warm plinth]

Vers stacking is a fucking meme that everyone falls for

[neon fossil]

2nd best prot warrior ranked right now, might disagree.

[warm plinth]

Some streamer somewhere said haste/vers and people were like jUsT gO hAsTe/VeRs

[urban portal]

Crit is like absolutely op vs autos

It’s so cheap

And it’s 100% dr

[warm plinth]

You realize it takes 4,500 vers to get 10% DR?

[pliant void]

Magic damage hurts and prot warriors only die to bleeds and magic damage

So we stack vers for the magic damage and haste for shield block uptime and rage gen

[median tulip]

Versa is ok; you wouldn't want to have NO Versa, but overstacking it is also a mistake; just take whatever comes along with other Haste gear and on your Tier pieces and you'll probably be ok

[warm plinth]

10% DR is not going to save you. Use your defensives properly and you won't die.

You absolutely do not stack vers.

That is not a thing

[urban portal]

Then mastery gives you bigger ip

[warm plinth]

I don't care what some random warrior is doing

[pliant void]

You have no idea what you are talking about lol

[warm plinth]

I absolutely do know what I'm talking about.

[pliant void]

I guess if you never do a key above a 20 sure

[wraith minnow]

I came to ask if Mastery is better than vers all-round and found this discussion lol

[pliant void]

Stack damage

[neon fossil]

Wait, so... Is that's true. What should I put in the lariat to optimise the benefits from it? Haste crit or Crit haste?

[warm plinth]

Yeah you're right. 10% DR is the only reason top warriors can do 20s

I'm clearly wrong here

[pliant void]

Glad we’re on the same page

[warm plinth]

That 200k nuke only hitting for 180k, MASSIVE

[median tulip]

I'm sitting on around 1500 Vers rating / 7.5%, which seems to be working for me without causing any stress. Compared to me 3,500 Haste Rating

[urban portal]

Ghash were you there for the mastery>vers discussion

[median tulip]

Personally I have Crafty Alexstraszites (Crit main stat, Haste lower)

[warm plinth]

Oh man I shaved 40k off that 400k nuke. Idk how I would've survived if I didn't do that. Oh wait, spell reflect reduces it by 20%, Demo shout reduces it by 20%, Shield Wall reduces it by 40%. Idk how I would live without 10% DR

I should absolutely stack vers

[pliant void]

You go do a ruby life pools on a 21

And survive the second boss

Tell me how it goes

[warm plinth]

You're right, the 10% vers is the only reason

😂

[limpid anchor]

I tell you that 10% vers won’t make a difference lol

If you actually think that you don’t play keys yourself

[mighty valley]

vers is only the thing truly saving your life when you get to the level of basically literal oneshots

[warm plinth]

Proper play is what's saving your life, not vers.

[mighty valley]

the only way it's absolutely uniquely better defensively than other stats is it takes the edge off gigantic magic hits

[pliant void]

What level of keys are you guys even doing?

[median tulip]

Ruby Life Pools 2nd boss is a spread damage fight; that's an argument for the DPS to get Versa, not the tank

[knotty vortex]

so whats the goal for verse then what should u be shooting for

[warm plinth]

If something is a one-shot mechanic, the only thing that's going to save your life is using defensives and externals properly.

10% vers is not going to be what does it

[limpid anchor]

20s

[mighty valley]

there's no specific goal, get highest item level and be happy

[limpid anchor]

What keys are you doing?

[warm plinth]

What level of keys are you doing?

[median tulip]

You shouldn't worry about Versatility at all. Gearing priority in this order: Tier Pieces > Main Stat > Haste

[neon fossil]

Oh god! I seem to have cause an argument on the Crit or Vers argument lol

[inland mesa]

I dunno the 2nd boss ruby life pools molten fists or whatever slaps

[limpid anchor]

Yes

And 5% dr doesn’t help

[pliant void]

1% dr on that boss helps

Shit slaps

[limpid anchor]

Doing less dmg so the boss does more casts

Doesn’t help

[inland mesa]

Is there anything that does? It comes in too often for big ole cds doesn't it

[median tulip]

The whole "Is Versa good" argument crops up at least once a week, and the answer from people who actually know how to play is always the same; Versatility will not save you from bad play, you should get good instead of worrying about it. The End.

[limpid anchor]

Cd rotation and a good heal

[mighty valley]

here's a warrior doing +24 with five items across their whole loadout that have vers on them

https://raider.io/characters/eu/twisting-nether/Femtv

[neon fossil]

lmao

[pallid quiver]

Stacking vers is only useful if it prevents a literal, unavoidable one-shot. There are very fucking few people at that key level, even among the top 50 key runners probs. Otherwise, other stats also have defensive benefits as well that are notable

[limpid anchor]

Yea the Fomo rerollers that play those keys on any tank every season

[mighty valley]

i'm saying that there's clearly no massive vers bar even these tanks are trying to hit

[limpid anchor]

Did you watch the #1 raid pwar play? He sucks dick

[inland mesa]

Hmm, so my haste vers gems could be haste crit, but everything else is pretty much whatever I got at the highest ilvl

[past lark]

Do you mean Nahigow?

[limpid anchor]

Idk why people compare shit to the highest rating players

[pallid quiver]

Haste vers isn't even necessarily bad. I'd sim to see if it does more damage than Haste Crit for you

[limpid anchor]

It’s not bad

No stat is bad

[mighty valley]

i'm the last person to ever say "check what the top players are doing" but it's relevant when someone tries to act like high vers is required to succeed that obviously it's not

[limpid anchor]

But being so fixated on it is stupid

[inland mesa]

My Sims keep telling me to get crit vers and crit mast stuff and ignore haste and I only have like 20% haste D:

[median tulip]

The thing to remember about all of the secondary stats is that they are multiplicative; if you have very little of one of them, then it becomes, point-for-point, more valuable to you

[limpid anchor]

Well haste gives survivalility which isn’t in the sim

[urban portal]

In this day and age

Dps should stack vers

[urban portal]

All stats give survival

[past lark]

I mean i would definitely say that looking at what top players (plural because always look at a few) are doing on a spec is arguably more important than listening to a random in discord

[mighty valley]

i think i am agreeing with you hamyngway but linking a raider.io profile has set off your "bad poster, must attack" instincts lol

[limpid anchor]

But not all stats help me to keep defs up

[mighty valley]

this sounds reasonable. however, the top ~10 prot warriors by io last two seasons were all running a trinket that was absolutely garbage for us

[urban portal]

Mastery is actually quite good in m+ now

[past lark]

Right but there is always a reason why

[urban portal]

And more attack power=bigger ip

[median tulip]

While true, Haste has its own mutliplicative effect on defence, because it's Cooldown Reduction AND Rage Generation AND GCD reduction

[urban portal]

Yes

[limpid anchor]

No, it was more in a general sense. Bcs I saw it so often that someone just says „hue hue r1 player does that“

[mighty valley]

the reason why was that they were uninformed, it was a meta trinket for other specs so they assumed the same for prot warrior, there was no defense

[urban portal]

But even mwahi said crit is doing very well in keys now

[past lark]

It’s incredibly arrogant to assume at a baseline you know more than the players at the 99.99th percentile of your class/spec

[urban portal]

May even be better than haste

[limpid anchor]

Idk I trust the theorycrafters more

[median tulip]

Oh Crit absolutely is, but that's because in M+ murdering your enemies is a valid form of pro-active defence; they can't kill you if you execute them first

[urban portal]

Anyone enjoy codex

[urban portal]

No it’s the parry

That’s what he said

[mighty valley]

I don't assume that I know, I assume when the best theorycrafters who also test their work and compare results have looked at something that that's more meaningful evidence than "people who have top io must be doing everything right"

[stark jewel]

parry chance

[warm plinth]

Let's see. Tattman did a 22 RLP (tyrannical). He has 9.48% vers (DR). The largest individual hit he took was 178k which was a searing wounds tick. So without that reduction, he'd have taken 195,748. He never dropped below 30% on that fight btw (and that was only at two points). Obviously gamebreaking and there's no way he could have survived it otherwise.

[stark jewel]

is busted

[urban portal]

Like the literal defensive value of crit is insane

[past lark]

“i’d trust the theorycrafters more” and “top players are garbage” are two very different things

[urban portal]

Even if you disregard offensive value of it

[mighty valley]

we've watched high io streamers just like, barely press shield block and get totally covered by their group lmao

[median tulip]

Hmmm, I guess I can see that too; I enjoy the "dead enemies are no damage" aspect too (we have a bunch of stuff that strongly works with Crit, and also I am a Battering Ram enjoyer)

[warm plinth]

There is always a reason why. That doesn't mean it's inherently a good reason.

[sturdy sable]

Sco got totally covered by his group for like a decade

[past lark]

Yeah i completely agree, that’s why it’s important to do both and learn from both. You should get your baseline knowledge and fundamental understanding from theorycrafters, but looking at the top players will help fine tune for situations where you’re doing less dps without understanding why or you notice everyone is using a particular talent that you don’t see mentioned in your class discord

[limpid anchor]

My point is that top players don’t necessarily run the correct stuff, either bcs they don’t know, do care, or it doesn’t matter. I’m pretty sure it’s completely irrelevant what you run on pwar atm

[mighty valley]

i don't blame anyone for checking what they're doing and asking here why they're doing it, but those players aren't always just right on everything and the questions do get tiresome

[warm plinth]

In fact, them running things like haste/vers "builds" is literal proof that it doesn't matter what stats you have

[past lark]

100% agree there, just saying that baseline assumption either way is bad

[urban portal]

I’m willing to bet you half of the tank players don’t know crit gives parry

[past lark]

Baseline assumption they suck is not better than baseline assumption they’re always right

[fallow osprey]

Or that mastery gives attack power

[mighty valley]

i don't think anyone's saying all the big pushers suck, we've just seen high profile cases of io not correlating to player skill and knowledge of a spec

[median tulip]

Once you get to around 400 ilvl you should have around 11k secondaries total, and as long as 3,500-4000 of that is in Haste and no stat is below about 1,500 you should be fine

[mighty valley]

some of them do objectively bad things, but a combination of high playtime and good group can get them there anyway

[lyric elm]

almost as if this is a team game

[mighty valley]

big think

[median tulip]

Surely not

[lyric elm]

[urban portal]

Sense is unlucky and has 2.3k haste rn

[tender cove]

Does any1 have that trinket sim list?

[mighty valley]

... also sometimes tanks look at a site like raiderio and don't notice that the tank has logged off in dps spec

[past lark]

That’s fair, definitely agree with you there. It’s just a point I wanted to make because a few times now I’ve spent a good amount of time analyzing logs of top players to see differences in rotation, talents, etc., and it’s helped me on most specs I’ve done that for

[mighty valley]

logs are usually more valuable than loadout for sure

[past lark]

Tl;dr i agree that tested results above all else, but don’t immediately discount examining high io or high parse players

[mighty valley]

but also there are choices that only make sense at the bleeding edge key level, or don't really make sense in a pug, or are so minor that they're not worth fretting over, etc etc

which is why it's usually best to just say "ilvl over almost all. haste is good" and move on with your life

[warm plinth]

Man this guy did a 22 RLP tyrannical with only 4.34% vers DR. Not sure how he didn't just fall over dead.

[mighty valley]

the power of friendship in his heart

[warm plinth]

21*

[frosty mango]

By pressing his buttons correctly and his group also pressing their buttons correctly

[warm plinth]

There's no way

[frosty mango]

Alas

He did it

[warm plinth]

He needs more vers. The log must be a bug

[frosty mango]

So there is a way

[warm plinth]

Btw I'm making a point based on a conversation from a few minutes ago. I'm not serious.

[median tulip]

FWIW, this is my secondary stat array right now:

I need more Haste

[tender cove]

Not sure what to use from rumbling ruby, decoration of flame, hoof and bigtoe

[mighty valley]

idk. roll some dice

[tender cove]

what xD

[warm plinth]

There's no way you can survive without more vers

[mighty valley]

check which trinkets give you the best vibes

[tender cove]

i got both ruby and flame today

[warm plinth]

It's impossible

[frosty mango]

Dof + primal turtle shell stone + cobalt shield ring + always tank in d stance

[warm plinth]

Okay I'm gonna stop beating a dead horse now

[frosty mango]

We sturdy

[median tulip]

I'll mention that they next time I murder an endboss

[frosty mango]

Gonna do no damage but we ain't dyin

[mighty valley]

the dead horse died because it didn't have enough vers

[warm plinth]

🤢

[warm plinth]

This killed me. Well played sir.

[mighty egret]

prot crit enjoyers

[tender cove]

but seriously though, how good is rumbling ruby and decoration?

[warm plinth]

Both are good

[frosty mango]

I refuse to use RR until they fix it

[warm plinth]

I would just sim it though tbh

[urban portal]

decor flame is op in timewalking

[frosty mango]

It's always pulling shit through floors and shit

[median tulip]

Do you have the raid rings?

[tender cove]

nah

[warm plinth]

facts

[mighty valley]

decoration is a decent middle ground, nice burst on add phases and a shield buffer

[delicate kraken]

me when the 3% crit crits

[median tulip]

Windscar Whetstone is just mental in timewalking

[mighty egret]

Ram with CoS ring

[frosty mango]

I use DoF + Ww in time walking

It's honestly kind of funny

[mighty valley]

timewalking is all just melting right now

trying to do some kinda rotation on my fresh dk alt and the whole pack is already dead

[frosty mango]

Playing fury in time walking with full mastery/crit stack

Pop puzzle boz

[reef flower]

Do I have to get the fire damage proc crafting belt to make use of my ring that proccs on fire damage?

[frosty mango]

Blow cds

Melt entire dungeon

[frosty mango]

Believe the trinket also procs it but the belt is consistent

[reef flower]

What trinket is that?

[frosty mango]

Decoration of flame

Drops from eranog. Not 100% sure but I believe it does, someone can probably confirm that

[urban portal]

stat trinkets usually suck

for cheesing timewalking

they always for get to scale down a flat dam trinket somewhere

[reef flower]

hmm ok, better get the belt I guess

[craggy pilot]

how do people survive all the Arcane Dmg on Vexamus in high keys? 🤔 not specifically thinking PWarr, more like the rest of the party

feels like Mana Bomb and the 100 energy explosion does MASSIVE dmg

[neon elk]

What high keys u talk about?

But usualy, rotate CDs, and dont be stupid to get as much balss as posible

[craggy pilot]

i just did +14 with relatively new healer, and we struggled real hard

didnt think +14 would be any difficulty

but theres just so much dmg in that boss its insane

[past lark]

Question about consumes

What flask is everyone using

[craggy pilot]

Glacial Fury or Eye in the Storm

[sand mason]

Eye in the storm is pog

[past lark]

Lmfao i’ve been playing on hardmode this whole time then

Been using corrupting rage

[neon elk]

I did 17, we wiped like 2 times on that boss ( because people are stupid and cant connect on thundering ) and on kill , no bl, healer was doing like 40k hps, so idk if its that healer heavy compared to some others

[lyric elm]

vexamus is a healer fight

[neon elk]

Yea but its not as bad as cos last boss

Pre nef at least, idk how is cos now

[lyric elm]

it was pathetic at 20 tyrannical tbh

healer just needed one major button per cycle and it was fine

the damage was nerfed by something like 60%

[craggy pilot]

might just be healer skillgap then

[warm plinth]

Yeah you can literally live with 0 healing on like an 18 tyr

(Cos last boss)

[neon elk]

With my luck , the first time i get there on decent key my group will die to those lines xd

[lyric elm]

yes the lines 1-shot

[craggy pilot]

felt like we were at 30% entire fight by just the 100 energy and the mana bombs

u cant avoid the Mana bomb dmg can u?

it goes on 3 people

[lyric elm]

thats correct

you take the dmg + the tick dmg

it's a bit overtuned

[neon elk]

Most likely next on the list

With bird and rlp 2boss too imo

[buoyant tiger]

why is this red for me

[warm plinth]

(Along with dark claw and/or haunting breath)

[craggy pilot]

but how do you say its free on +20 then?

[lyric elm]

we were talking about cos?

[craggy pilot]

oh sorry

[frosty mango]

Just get to the last boss with like 9 minutes left, then they only need to live long enough for you to solo the boss in the remaining time

[craggy pilot]

u said "vexamus is healer fight"
"it was pathetic on +20"

[lyric elm]

read in between

[warm plinth]

He was taking about melandrus on 2nd comment

[frosty mango]

Every tyr cos over 18 I've done has ended with the tank soloing melandrus

[neon elk]

My mental state most likely wont endure that xd

[median tulip]

CoS is not that much of a challenge TBH

The problem in CoS is the timer, not the actual fighting

[frosty mango]

Either I'm fury and the healer dies

Then I die

Or I'm prot and end up soloing 25% of the boss

[neon elk]

My bigest issue with cos is rng

[lyric elm]

yea the dps monkeys dies around the 3rd cycle

[frosty mango]

You can easily play around the rng tho

Especially tyrannical week because you can pull like 4 trash packs at once

[warm plinth]

Fury and dying name a more iconic duo

[frosty mango]

Fury is durable as shit

[mighty valley]

You're in defensive stance, so you have a damage penalty

[frosty mango]

Fury has like 17 self heals, d stance

[neon elk]

Havent done any this week, but last one was quite pain with people randomly stuning stuff and forgeting to kick

[frosty mango]

It's like impossible to die as fury if you have a brain

[twin shale]

\

[mighty valley]

fury in the hands of someone pressing buttons? sturdy as hell. charge in close eyes yolo fury? dies a lot

[warm plinth]

17 self Heals huh lol

I was mostly referring to them peeling with their burst and falling over.

[frosty mango]

I was maybe exaggerating a little

You got IV, bitter immunity, enraged Regen, health pot as heals

You also got d stance, spell reflect

Shield block if you get desperate

Spell reflect is the most overpowered defensive button in the game and I will die on that hill

[lyric elm]

spell block is, but almost agree

[neon elk]

Gotta love nokhud SR dmg

[frosty mango]

A 20% magic Dr with a short cooldown that also is 100% mitigation for half the shit? That's obscene

Which is to say it's terrible. We need buffs.

[warm plinth]

Not to mention that it does damage to the mob on a lot of it

[median tulip]

The funniest thing with Spell Reflect is abusing the way it's coded to calculate whether a reflection happens at the instant the spell is cast. The current example being the Imp packs in CoS

[mighty valley]

people get so mad when something's not reflectable that it makes them miss "top tier magic damage cooldown even without the reflect"

[warm plinth]

reflecting simultaneous casts is the best

[neon elk]

I for example still have no idea how SR work on first boss of sbg

[frosty mango]

Yea timing it is rough but it's hilarious to do it

[warm plinth]

Yeah it's literally a 20% magic DR usable every 20 seconds.

[nimble laurel]

Ha that ability after the AoE? Me either but it does a lot.

[frosty mango]

Smbg in particular you can use it on the chonky void slashes along with spell block and make those shitty packs basically free

[neon elk]

Ye like sometimes it works sometimes it doesnt ... do i have to pop it at right time or what?

[nimble laurel]

I usually pop it immediately before the AoE burst and it usually reflects the spell immediately after

[neon elk]

I pop it like mid, and sometimes it reflects sometimes it dont

[median tulip]

The key is to aggro them all simultaneously by jumping RIGHT into the centre of the pack. If you charge one of them gets aggressed a fraction of a second earlier and you only reflect one cast

[frosty mango]

I leap then stun to sync cast

Then reflect

[median tulip]

Stun will work too, but Leap alone should do it if aimed correctly

[warm plinth]

anyone have an updated sheet for PI targets? Figured I'd ask here before I dare venture into the priest discord

[limber python]

is this tier or is it only the forgestones

(the hands)

[warm plinth]

Problem with doing this is that usually the rest of your group is in combat by the time the stun ends and some of the bolts might not hit you

[warm plinth]

They're just hands. Tier is the tokens

[limber python]

WAAAAAAAAAAAA

[warm plinth]

https://tenor.com/WWiw.gif

[gritty glen]

Anyone have tips on seeing the spell effects on the last boss of CoS? Blends in with the floor and wondering if my graphics settings are f'd.

[limber python]

turn up particle density

[frosty mango]

It's meant to be hard to see, the mechanic isn't meant to be avoided that way

[forest tulip]

When do you all use rallying cry? After a big pull? When the group is low?

[frosty mango]

The line is always a direct vector between the boss and his clones. One line per clone

Look at clones then move accordingly

[gritty glen]

So it's supposed to be invisible?

[limber python]

i think ur supposed to use it preemptively but i use it as an oh shit this guys almost dead

[frosty mango]

Yes it's supposed to be almost transparent

[toxic pewter]

If I use my dragon games equipment on cooldown it’s pulling 4% overall damage in m+

That’s about average right

[frosty mango]

Every mechanic on that fight revolves around properly managing add placement

[limber python]

just increase particle density

[craggy pilot]

what do people do in high keys Academy on bird boss? which goal first?

im thinking Wind first is the strat, but am i wrong?

[median tulip]

Every time I've done it I've done Fire first

[true hound]

How do we deal with second boss in Ruby? The timers on boss abilities overlap horribly

[craggy pilot]

at higher than 17?

[true hound]

Is there any way to reduce damage taken from the ele

Just did a +16

I'm 385 ilvl and did a nokhud 17 just before without problem. Before that the highest ive done are +12s. But i've got a lot of tanking experience on other tanks

[frozen berry]

Only do fire, fuck wind

[true hound]

Just new to prot war

[craggy pilot]

you dont do wind at all?

its 50% haste buff 🤔

[frozen berry]

Nope

[craggy pilot]

on what key level bro?

[frozen berry]

16+

[slow harbor]

... huh, maybe i shouldn't be slumming in +7s at i381.. lol

[warm plinth]

You can postpone using the goals as long as you can survive the screech damage

[craggy pilot]

wdym? does the screech stack up when you dont do goals?

[frosty mango]

On 18+ this is what we do

[true hound]

381 and you gucci for well over +7s

[frosty mango]

Do neither until the screech gets too sketchy then dunk

[warm plinth]

Yeah he gains stacks that make screech do more damage. Using a goal drops the stacks

[slow harbor]

yeah i'd never played in mythic keystones before returning for DF so slowrolled it, time to push haha

[frosty mango]

Yes it gets progressively stronger but the boss also has no mechanics until you do a goal

[craggy pilot]

ohh didnt know lol

yea so i guess CDs on pull

and then goal at 2min?

[frozen berry]

He takes more dmg after fire goal, like 75%

[craggy pilot]

not perma

only for 10sec

[frozen berry]

No, but good burst window for cd’s

[craggy pilot]

ye thats why i mean wait for 2min CDs to come back up

[median tulip]

Smacking the birb with Battering Ram during that damaghe increase phase makes big numbers happen

[craggy pilot]

hmm ill check Sjeletyvens +20 vid

Fort video though 🤔

they go Fire goal at 1min

[neon elk]

They are heavily organized group that pull way higher numbers than your random pug

[warm plinth]

I bet full brace shield slam is juicy too

[neon elk]

I would use them as a metric

[craggy pilot]

still usable as strat

[noble jetty]

How do you get full use out of ITF on rasz? Do i just tank her facing hte raid?

[neon elk]

Not realy

[warm plinth]

with some punish stacks too 😮

[craggy pilot]

people in here saying only use Fire goal

[mellow quartz]

Never use winds unless I have to

[craggy pilot]

if you cant keep 5 stacks, just swap to HR

[craggy pilot]

why not?

[mellow quartz]

Fighting with the winds and fire running is just trolling.

[warm plinth]

because it's not worth it

[craggy pilot]

50% haste for 20sec is massive

[noble jetty]

I can keep it up fine in p2 and add phase but p1 and 3 we tank the boss so far away

[warm plinth]

The negative effect is why people don't do it

[toxic lion]

yo do you think its worth to lsoe 20ilvl on chest to get 2set bonus from lfr chest ?

[warm plinth]

Not the buff

[mellow quartz]

And after the buff runs out casters can’t do damage for the rest of the fight

[warm plinth]

yes

[craggy pilot]

negative effect to fire feels harded tho no?

constant dodge for casters / healer

[warm plinth]

I don't even know what the fire does

[neon elk]

Constant ?

[warm plinth]

That's how irrelevant the mechanic is to me

[neon elk]

U move like every 5-10sec, maybe not even that if u are lucky

[mellow quartz]

Fire doesn’t always hit where you stand. Easier to dodge than being blown all over the place.

[neon elk]

Wind is actualy a pain with heavy caster group

But if u wanna try not to do wind and go fire only, dont pop fire asap, wait till at least 3-4 stacks , depending on key lvl

[mellow quartz]

Go to as many stacks as you can survive then use fire. Same for winds after if boss is not dead.

[craggy pilot]

hmm

guess ill try doing 1 goal

[mellow quartz]

Did 4 debuffs with personals and rally on the 4th hit on a 20 fort then fire.

[neon elk]

First 2 screeches should be fine, then people need to use CDs

[mellow quartz]

Boss died before winds.

[crimson snow]

Is it worth crafting Primal Molten Longsword if we have the m+ bis Spellbane Cutlass?

[neon elk]

Depends on ilvl?

[mighty valley]

what's worth more to you, money or valor

[crimson snow]

my spellbane is 376 but I can upgrade it

[neon elk]

If by bis u mean 421 then its not worth to craft wep.. if by bis u mean stats then its based on ilvl

Dont spend valor on such low ilvl wep

[craggy pilot]

hmm Equinox brew is doing 1,5min Fire goal ye

and then wind to clear the stacks when at 3

[neon elk]

U wanna idealy time it but its not exactly easy with pugs

[craggy pilot]

nah

i see he is doing all the balls himself 😄

to time it perfect

[neon elk]

Like dont pop it asap when u get 3 stacks

U wanna watch boss timers and pop it shortly before your last screeth

[craggy pilot]

the dmg on those Screech on +19 seems insane though 🤣

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1qiZQW_TGY

[neon elk]

Yap, 3-4 hurt af on 17 even .

[craggy pilot]

but if you do insta goals, youre gonna get very high stacks after the 2nd goal right?

like if the boss doesnt die after 2nd goal ur fucked?

[neon elk]

Yes , u dont wana do it insta on high keys

Even with bl on higher keys that boss lasts quite a bit

[craggy pilot]

yea and u wanna lust Tree 🤔

[neon elk]

And im bot sure if BL there is right call

Idk

[craggy pilot]

and probably also wanna lust Veximos

yea lust + Fire would be big dmg for sure tho

[neon elk]

After last nerfs , ill most likely go back to m0 route where i start vexamus

[craggy pilot]

so lust Vexamus + Bird?

or?

[neon elk]

Tree is free as fuck imo

[craggy pilot]

Vexamus -> Tree -> Bird ?

so u can lust Vex + Bird?

[neon elk]

Yea pretty much

[craggy pilot]

sounds like a play ye

[neon elk]

Idk if its the play

[craggy pilot]

i kinda wanna try some different shit with my push grp in Academy now 😄

but ye Tree seems kinda nice now tbh

[neon elk]

But tree is no issue, only difference BL makes is timer , but if people arent apes there is nothing to fail now..

[craggy pilot]

but dunno if you need to use the AOE pots in Tree then

if you Shocking Disclosure pot the tree boss, its free as fk tho

[neon elk]

Most likely no? But that might depend on group

[craggy pilot]

depends on key lvl ofc

on Tyrannical it might make it possible without lust is what i mean

[neon elk]

Like, even if u BL tree, it lasts for one set of adds only so u still have to deal with others without it

[craggy pilot]

Shocking Disclosure is 1mil+ dmg alone

first set of adds is usually doable without lust anyway

so its more like 2nd set of adds with no cds

[honest vale]

I don't think Tree was ever an issue if the adds don't hit anyone other than the tank.

But that requires people to place adds correctly.

[craggy pilot]

mainly the issue was Germinate stacked in the Green circle

which it doesnt AT ALL anymore, which is ❤️

[slim dove]

Main issue I've had is pugs not understanding the green circle clears bleeds.

[honest vale]

Was it that bad if people hugged the tank the whole fight?

[neon elk]

Yea it was

[craggy pilot]

had a guy today tell my healer "heal me bro"

when he died to bleed 🤣

fucking guy was doing less than tank dps

ended up leaving, and we completed key without him

fucking idiot

[honest vale]

But if you told them that, they would have said, "Yeah, because I was dead because healer didn't heal me bro"

[craggy pilot]

nah i told him he was shit and didnt know tactics

that he died to avoidable stuff

[honest vale]

Straight to the point. Respect.

I had to leave a Ruby last night because people didn't know how to position well, so we were cutoff by bad boulders and hardly any kicks on the add. 😭

[neon elk]

I hate 2nd ruby boss

Shit just hurts so much

[jade pulsar]

Is there anyone that have some numbers on how much our 4 set does for us? To me it sounds so incredibly weak

[neon elk]

Its rougly 5%leech

[craggy pilot]

love it when people just stand behind 2 lines of fire, and bait the add there 🤣

[buoyant narwhal]

Hey guys, anyone here macro SB onto shield slam and run into specific problems for doing so? want to increase my uptime and figured this'll do it

[craggy pilot]

and then theyre like "tank you need to move boss"

[honest vale]

Dude, if someone ever tells me to move the boss, I STG.

[craggy pilot]

its not too bad this season, but its a bit bad

[honest vale]

I'll int the key.

[neon elk]

The add isnt the issue, tankbuster is for me ..

[tender cove]

you know he can get the loot for that run right?

[jade pulsar]

Have u seen this somewhere, or heard it here?

[craggy pilot]

if you run HR at least

[craggy pilot]

i know, but another guy got loot after we depleted, so i bet he didnt get any then right?

[warm plinth]

You get 2 pieces of loot

[craggy pilot]

always?

[neon elk]

Here . Also its same thing as our talent that is presented as rougly equal to %leech

[warm plinth]

yes

[honest vale]

Even if you deplete?

[warm plinth]

yes

[tender cove]

yeh, its the same % as usual but i would be bit mad about it 4 keying it and giving him the reward xD

[craggy pilot]

thought its only 2 pieces if you 2 chest?

[warm plinth]

Just the 2nd piece is one key level of ilevel lower

That hasn't been a thing since Legion

[craggy pilot]

ah ok

[warm plinth]

In BFA it was 1 piece and then 1 additional piece when you timed it

[neon elk]

If u dont key a timer u have one lower ilvl. If u do keys above 20 u have chance for more items

[warm plinth]

Now you get 2 pieces regardless but the 2nd piece will be one valor level lower if you don't time the key

[neon elk]

If they didnt change that ofc.

[dire matrix]

do we craft the vers proc shield or good stats shield

[warm plinth]

The good stats shield

[dire matrix]

oh its an embellish

nvm

[buoyant narwhal]

ok thx, yeah i run HR, but would that make macroing it on SS bad? wouldnt have thought it would change anything

[torpid fiber]

Does anyone else pick the person to craft gear based on how not dumb their name is because seeing “made by dragussy” every time you press c is annoying?

[craggy pilot]

SB
SS

in ur macro, then its semi ok, but only because our SB uptime is so high this season

[warm plinth]

No but pretty sure if I noticed the name then I would go to someone else lol

[craggy pilot]

just SB before SS then ur ok "kinda" ok i think

its ofc better to not do it, but if you feel you have difficulty with hands or some shit, feel free @buoyant narwhal

[warm plinth]

If you shield slam at the end of a pack and it casts Shield Block, you just wasted at least part of that Shield Block running to the next pack.

If not the entire thing

[buoyant narwhal]

ah i see, thats perfect guys thx

[neon elk]

How about u do the smart thing and macro it to IP instead ?

[dire matrix]

and double stack

and run out of sb

[warm plinth]

macro what to IP

[neon elk]

Ss

[dire matrix]

oh

thought u meant sb

[warm plinth]

Well, even if you do that, it replaces your IP button, not your SS button. You still have a separate SS button.

[neon elk]

Can u even do that? xd

[dire matrix]

idk

[jade pulsar]

Okok ty

[craggy pilot]

Shield Block uptime is more about pressing ur SS often, pressing ur TC often pressing ur SB often, pressing ur Shield Charge often, and pressing Revenge when possible
TC+Revenge can reset time of SS, which adds 1 sec to SB

[neon elk]

Wait was the whole point to remove ss button?

[steel mauve]

you can macro ss to ip, but not ip to ss, there is a difference

[craggy pilot]

with that + Enduring defenses, u will have 90%+ uptime

[warm plinth]

No, you do not remove your SS button

[honest vale]

First, is it an accessibility issue? If not, then I wouldn't do it.

[neon elk]

Tought its more about ss casts

[warm plinth]

It's so that if you get a weirdly timed SS proc (due to devastator hitting), you dump rage before casting it

[steel mauve]

its actually good to macro ss to ip

[craggy pilot]

i think he wanted this:

#showtooltip
/cast Shield Block
/cast Shield Slam

and then just have this instead of SS

[steel mauve]

it saves a few milliseconds per useage of ss reset with out wasting rage using ip

[warm plinth]

He did

[steel mauve]

it is not smart to macro ss to sb though

[craggy pilot]

its not entirely bad, because of our 90% giga uptime currently

but its not good either

[neon fossil]

Right, earlier I asked a question in relation to stat weights and it caused a huge debate. Let me ask an alternative question; In regards to the Elemental Lariat, How should I stack this to optimise for M+??

[craggy pilot]

primary stat + anything that isnt mastery

[craggy pilot]

if you want closer, you should sim it yourself

[neon elk]

Depends what you want

[neon fossil]

sims give me mastery

[warm plinth]

if you don't have a primalist gem, use that + whatever stats are best

[neon fossil]

so fuck the sims

[craggy pilot]

looks like you already decided on haste vers in the missive, so pick haste vers 🤷‍♂️

[warm plinth]

Generally either a vers/haste gem or a crit/haste

[neon fossil]

Apparently primalist gems dont proc

[warm plinth]

They don't but you still want one in your gear

Having more gems for lariat to proc has no effect on the proc

[dire matrix]

is shield ilvl hugely noticeable btw

[warm plinth]

Yes

[neon elk]

Also keep in mind that lariat proc from all gear sockets not just lariat sockets

[dire matrix]

going 392 to 418 in 1 dungeon

[neon fossil]

Yea, I was thinking to recraft it to haste/crit

[craggy pilot]

im building haste/crit for thememe

[neon fossil]

Because im already haste crit heavy

[craggy pilot]

and now people saying mastery is more dmg, so i might swap some stuff to mastery 🤣

[honest vale]

How is mastery more damage?

[dire matrix]

where vers

[neon elk]

If u are haste crit heavy wouldnt it make your vers even better due to start weights and DRs and stuff?

[craggy pilot]

sims

[warm plinth]

Guys

[honest vale]

If anything, mastery is more healing because IP is stronger.

[warm plinth]

Sim. Your. Self.

[neon fossil]

Sim. Gives. Me. Mastery.

[honest vale]

Lord Ghash dath spoketh.

[craggy pilot]

Mastery = AP though

[warm plinth]

So use fucking mastery dude lol

Mastery isn't garbage despite what some would have you think.

[craggy pilot]

Mastery is just boring though 😄

[dire matrix]

so is vers

[craggy pilot]

having high Crit is so fun when i can parry shit

[dire matrix]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[honest vale]

It's definitely basic and boring, but it's a good defensive stat.

[craggy pilot]

30% parry is nuts

[neon elk]

Also , idk if its good idea to swap stats on lariat based on what gear u have , assuming u will change most of it in next month

[warm plinth]

If you have high crit and high haste and low other stats then obviously those other stats are going to gain weight

[neon fossil]

Who the fuck is gonna pick mastery... Seriously dude, be constructive in the debate or keep fucking quiet. It's clear the sims are picking mastery as a default and not the actual stat we should be fucking aiming for.

[honest vale]

^

[warm plinth]

Sims are picking mastery as a default? What?

[dire matrix]

imean

[neon elk]

And make sure u are siming right stuff

[dire matrix]

if the guy wants pure dmg

[honest vale]

I now understand why your earlier question spawned a debate.

[warm plinth]

What does that even mean lol

[neon fossil]

ST or 10 targets... Its picking mastery.

[warm plinth]

Okay?

Then use mastery

[steel mauve]

if the sims are telling you mastery, then mastery will literally give you a dps increase over other stats, its not that complicated

[gilded glacier]

I'm still trying to get the hang of prot and still gearing my warrior and Im at an impasse. I don't know what trinkets to use of these three. Can anyone give me some advice?

[neon fossil]

But, that isnt the stat that we should be putting in the lariat.

[warm plinth]

I mean, put a mastery>haste gem in it

[honest vale]

Why not? That's the point we're trying to tell you.

[tender cove]

So dont? what is the actual problem here?

[slim dove]

Lmao what's the attitude

[cursive needle]

Is the Whispering Incarnate Icon our BiS Trinket?

[warm plinth]

Like if you're gonna be stubborn and ignore what actual facts are, then put whatever the fuck you want in there

Idgaf

[honest vale]

Where are you getting the, we should not part?

[warm plinth]

IF you have other people in your group with it, yes.

[steel mauve]

literally every warrior will be different, you cant go off what some opne else says or does, your stat priority will be ever changing every time you change gear

[neon elk]

Just put in one that is crist>haste and other one that is vers>haste, u wont have mastery which u fear so much and u dont have to decide which one of two u want . It will also proc haste all the time , ezpz yw .

[warm plinth]

If not, it's just a vers stat stick

[honest vale]

Sim says use mastery. You don't want to, so pick whatever you want.

[steel mauve]

sims arent picking a stat as default, if it says a styat is more dps for YOU, then that stat is more dps for YOU

[cursive needle]

Good to know, thanks!

[warm plinth]

I am never not constructive btw. You're just ignoring the facts.

[slim dove]

The sim is picking mastery because your so heavy on other secondaries. That's all. Be a cockhead elsewhere

[warm plinth]

I can't help that.

[neon fossil]

Because I'm not being funny, it's always the same bellends that cannot add anything apart from "Sim yourself" rather than adding constructive information to the debate..

[slim dove]

Hey buddy

Sim yourself

[warm plinth]

[honest vale]

You received the same 4-5 answers from 4-5 different users.

[neon fossil]

lol

[slim dove]

[tender cove]

Have you tried simming yourself?

[steel mauve]

i mean hes not wrong, sim yourself, do what the sims tell you or dont, but dont ignore actual evidence of what will be an increase for you because "i dont like what its telling me"

[warm plinth]

But it's not the RIGHT answer, according to him.

[honest vale]

I'm curious to know why you think mastery is bad, or why you shouldn't be using it on a piece.

[neon fossil]

Go on then @warm plinth what's your current mastery %?

[warm plinth]

What the fuck does that have to do with anything

[buoyant narwhal]

thx all!