protection

[mellow quartz]

Remember 3 shard halls pull?

[strong forum]

Tbf triple shard was troll af

[patent osprey]

Brew isn't the same as VDH, or Bear. MDI favors them because in their CDs, they are close to immune as possible

[mellow quartz]

Bear can’t live like they used to in incarn though.

[patent osprey]

So insane pulls, favors those tanks. Brew might just die trying to pull those kinda pulls togeather

[strong forum]

Bear can only live ultra pulls aslong as they have rage of the sleeper

Which is only 10sec

Outside of that I don't think they'll be as fine

I guess if it's a physical pull

[patent osprey]

Brew atm, is just in the position where they aren't really BIS at anything content wise. Unless like low key farming is considered a category

[strong forum]

They're still immune to it

[patent osprey]

Cause survivability is key in most forms of high content.

[uncut epoch]

what exactly is considered "low"? <20?

[strong forum]

I'd still think being able to dish out 60-80% more dmg than other tanks is a very viable thing to consider

:^)

[mellow quartz]

Hard to say what the highest keys will be at max ilvl. Testing atm is 392 only.

[slim zinc]

Scaling will definitely put it a bit lower

[ember tangle]

maybe brw monks crying now is like boomkins crying at the start of SL

[slim zinc]

but I wouldn't be surprised if we see high 20s

[ember tangle]

and turning out to be OP for 2 tiers

[patent osprey]

Depends on what part of the expac/farm period your in. At the start, 15/16s is considered lower/chill. Right now in prepatch SL, low is considered like <25 probably. But its based on opinion

[slim zinc]

Brew went from the simplest to the hardest tank rotationally

Or well not really rotationally, but to utilize enough of the kit

[broken crater]

yh, already 22s timed https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/bW8Mnq4zt3jryTFL

nvm attempted

[slim zinc]

Yeah slap on 30% stats and more practice and we'll see at the absolute least a bit more than that

[patent osprey]

There will always be outlier players that will play a certain class at a high key level. But doesn't mean its fine. High damage is great, but it comes a large costs too. Kiting for ex. causes more stress in key and lowers your DPS's dps. So its a cost. Right now brew has to play with Paladin to survive because on pull they need Sac and Sac is 1 min Cd in DF

[broken crater]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/MzCBLk16qRmZbfH2#fight=4 21 close to be timed

[strong forum]

Sure, but even "paper" tanks in s3/s4 did only 1/2 key levels less than top keys

Like, if it works, it works

[slim zinc]

s4 didn't help that everyone knew bdk was best so anyone serious would be switching

[limpid anchor]

But in mdi?

Wasn’t that the whole point rn

[slim zinc]

VDH wasn't the best high key tank in s2 but saw widespread usage in s2 mdi

[strong forum]

Mdi is all about "making it work"

[broken crater]

imo thats not really useful to mention if its < 5 groups world wide playing with that tank on that level while 80%+ are playing fotm

[patent osprey]

I think brew's current state of "paper" is even more so than Prot warrior's "paper" in SLs. But Brew in compensation is doing alot more than prot warrior was in SLs

[patent osprey]

Thats not true at all. The opposite actually. MDI is about finding what works, not making it work. MDI players don't go in and say, well how do we make Brew work. They go in wanting to pull a certain way and then find the classes that allow that to happen

[cobalt seal]

nome wasn't talking about pwar

he was talking of vdh

[strong forum]

If you know a class does absurd amount of dmg, you'll play around it because of its potential speed gain

[broken crater]

thats kinda "making the pull work"

[patent osprey]

Most of all like Tanks are the least considered for their damage. Ususally u want to bring the 3 BIS dps classes, then find a tank that can live with the largest size pulls you can make without the dps dying. And find a healer that can heal it. Its why Tank/healer classes can change dungeon to dungeon but DPS classes typically stay the same

[ebon gorge]

I don’t agree with your 1st sentence

[strong forum]

Thats not true at all, historically mdi tank has always been the one with the highest dps output

It's only in SL where for the first time ever pwar has been picked primarily because of bshout

And it's already competetive dmg vs vdh

[patent osprey]

Its always highest survivability + Damage. Its not just 100% surv then no damage. or 100% damage no surv.

[ebon gorge]

Most agree you bring the tank with highest dmg potential. Best defense is offense. You take less damage when things die quicker

[patent osprey]

Right now brew is like 100% damage, no surv

[strong forum]

I personally think this is way too exaggerated

It's just like a certain tank player saying that vdh is paper in DF

Which is hilariously wrong

[mellow quartz]

There is always a lot of hyperbole

[slim zinc]

Aye, Brew is harder to play and yes could be buffed slightly, but it's not like it's 3-4 key levels behind defensively

[sage granite]

All I know is… buff prot

[strong forum]

It may be weaker defensively than other tanks, but it's hugely exaggerated just like pwar being shit in SL has been exaggerated

Or dh or pally

Reminder that in s2 nobody had pally on his radar, literally fucking nobody

[patent osprey]

Its pretty exaggerated, but I think saying brew not squishy in the right hands is a bit exaggerated as well :/

[strong forum]

And then boom comes Andy

And smashes literally everybody

Tenfold

[sand drum]

^ had vent pala S1 in CN

none spoke about it he top 3 dps xD

[mellow quartz]

But did people say pally sucked or just didn’t say anything abt them

[broken crater]

whats funny is

[sand drum]

as prot *

[strong forum]

Everybody said pally sucked

Lincoln had his huge redemption arc

Because of it

[broken crater]

that there isnt even a single logged attempt on brew +20 on beta

[mellow quartz]

Wcl can search for beta dungeons now?

[strong forum]

He can

[broken crater]

since m+ testing is out

everyone can

[slim zinc]

Has been able for a long time

[broken crater]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/reports?zone=32&boss=0&difficulty=0&class=Monk&spec=Brewmaster&keystone=19&kills=0&duration=0

rlp 19 5 mins over time with brew in there

[mellow quartz]

Doesn’t mean much.

No guardian logs above an 18 🤷‍♂️

[patent osprey]

Trell definitely has done some 18-20s as brew. Its doable

but his health is more pingpong than BDK in s4

[mellow quartz]

So few logs at those levels.

[broken crater]

*public

[patent osprey]

and the pong isn't coming from his own Self healing, but healer. So its def scary

[broken crater]

ye that brew log there has ~25% more dtps, a lot more ehrps and healer had to pay a lot more attention to tank too (ignoring the time diff to your log)

[patent osprey]

But if brew survivability gets buffed and their dps not touched, then yeah, definitely big contender for bis tank based on their dam

[cobalt seal]

brew only needs small tweaks so it can't be that squishy

[zenith vale]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0Az0xaL1OY

prot too

[broken crater]

y prot has a couple

[mellow quartz]

Just want them to fix brutal vitality already.

And BSV would be nice as well.

He didn’t even talk abt those 2 in the video 😦

[neon elk]

Maybe not the right place , but is there any crafted item ( soulbound) that will be bis/needed , or overperfiming regular drop items ??

[mellow quartz]

As far as I could see you could only get the engi brez from the tinker slots, people were saying there was also a non tinker slot version but I haven't seen that in any of the recipes on beta.

[neon elk]

Ive seen somehing about dmg reflecting helmet (iirc) but that was quite early in beta and was curious how good it is , if it even was going live

[mellow quartz]

engineering gives a helmet and wrists with a tinker slot

so you can put invis 'belt' in one of them and then use brez in the other for example

[lusty tiger]

Anyone have experience with the new targeting system? Or can explain what’s actually new better then the blue post

[mellow quartz]

Sounded like some open world leveling stuff for people who have 1 hand.

Having your target chance when you look at something else sounds horrible in actual content.

[spring umbra]

Sounds like some pugs I’ve recently grouped with…

[zenith vale]

same

[oak echo]

Is that how they word it? I thought it was like a better controller support feature

[icy citrus]

Sup yall, was off for the week. Any important changes on us before launch?

[sick sentinel]

Nothing is perfect i guess

[grim nimbus]

hey guys what is the current best leggendaries to run ?

[oak echo]

how hard you planning to go for the next 7 days? i'd honestly save your gold at this point. but if you really want to, best are probably seismic or the wall just because they save you a talent point that you can use somewhere else instead of the talents that do the same thing

[mellow quartz]

Crafting a legendary now is just throwing money out the window.

You don’t need a leggo at all for the next week.

[grim nimbus]

thank you bro

[slow shale]

Just blast out Alternates or go on Transmog runs in the old dungeons

[warm plinth]

Subtle

😂

[pallid quiver]

"Little gold"

i could go through a day of prog's repairs with the gold they cost, thank you

[slim dove]

10k gold to have a bit more fun for a week?

ez

[long flower]

https://i.imgur.com/oj526EI.png

this ok for M+? pre patch ye

Or if anything is completely out of line, is an old build or something idk

[mellow quartz]

See pins (scroll down)

[urban portal]

looks fine

[wise egret]

Do you guys have any tips / tricks on M+ as a proct warrior. I normally play DPS but re-rolled when my guild lost our tanks

[analog swift]

SB >>>>>> ignore pain

[wise egret]

I am also at ilvl 238 should I craft before hand or just go in like leroy?

[signal terrace]

At least get the events gear at 252

[pallid quiver]

i mean, if you're concerned about gear, you can casually get 278 stuff from the new dungeon during the event

Won't be a full set but it's enough to do like everything

But you can definitely hit a non-zero amount of keys at that ilvl. Just requires playing dungeons well

You won't be pushing, but

honestly, who cares about pushing right now?

[urban portal]

yeah

doing 15s at 238 is like doing 20/22s?

[wise egret]

okay, I havent even tried the new dungeon so I might look up that pathing and try that

[pallid quiver]

that pathing is hold W, don't forget dwarves

it's only normal difficulty

[wise egret]

thanks!

[mighty valley]

yeah, even if everyone's basically a fresh 60, nothing matters in the new uldaman right now

[sand pebble]

yes def run ulda, some decent ilvl in there and if you can get a hold of the trinket off the dwarfs its busted for damage - just dont get hit by it because it will kill you

[limpid pawn]

which lower path is better

going upstairs in attunman

or below stage stuff after 1st boss

[warm plinth]

Upstairs in Attumen is better imo. No kicks to worry about unless you're dumb and pull retainers. Basically just free trash.

[twilit knoll]

fuck lads Prot warr looking fun as

[lusty tiger]

wtf

160k regrowths on guardian

what did they doooo

[cobalt seal]

You dont take the talent as guardian

[lusty tiger]

just using a wowhead build idk

[cobalt seal]

That build is a bit questionable for m+

[lusty tiger]

sniping my healer on bursting was funny at least

u got a spec to try?

[ebon wren]

confused. dont you have to clear below anyway

[cobalt seal]

There is a build for lvl 70 in pins in dg

[lusty tiger]

im on prepatch

[cobalt seal]

Same

Place

[warm plinth]

He's taling about below the opera stage, not below Attumen

talking*

[waxen cradle]

So is it intended for BSurge to now proc 10% of the time for us because on beta its definitely proccing more than 7%

[warm plinth]

It was nerfed from 15 to 7 then buffed back to 10

[waxen cradle]

yeah was looking for confirmation as to the proc rate I was getting

Instigate still seems 100% the go to for ST but BSurge flows better in AoE again I think

well better than it did at 7% thats for damn sure

[mellow quartz]

They confirmed it was buffed for arms and we use the same spell ID.

Similar to how it was nerfed in the first place.

[oak echo]

yeah i'm not 100% sure it was intended that the prot version got buffed at the same time but i'm all for it if it was lol

[lone eagle]

probably drop Booming Voice for Focused Vigor

[foggy wigeon]

eeeeh to me that sound like a terrible idea. like yeah, you get more flat survivability and damage but I don't think it's worth losing instant 30 rage and 20% burst window every 25-30 seconds.

[lone eagle]

You don't need the rage in prepatch especially

so the only thing that matters is the 20% bonus dam

5% strength + 1% crit are almost identical to 20% damage boost esp when 20% damage boost costs you 1 GCD

And defensively I don't even run Thunderlords at 60 because its' not necessary, in which case you run Punish

because more dam

[balmy barn]

what is stat priority in general for prot now?

haste vers?

[jagged pier]

[pallid quiver]

we want to get some defense to make sure we get crushing off the table or something

[warm plinth]

https://tenor.com/bDj1z.gif

[jagged pier]

its further than 10

just so u feel old

[warm plinth]

Oh I needed no help there, but I appreciate it

[jagged pier]

dont worry makes me feel old as well

[pallid quiver]

I don't need any help feeling old anymore now that my back keeps going out

smh should be in a coffin already

[jagged pier]

its my hips

cause i sit down all day

[sick sentinel]

body now angry at me for lvling 10+ toons

so agree on old part

[warm plinth]

10? pfft

[sick sentinel]

i lost count tbh

[deep spruce]

What yous finding as the fastest way to level

Unfortunately didn't start threads of fate on all toons

Cos that shit is faaaaast

So I need the next best thing

[warm plinth]

I've heard good things about using the invasions to level, but you might check out this video for an alternative: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLXS2nupv2s

[tropic scroll]

you can blast warlords up untill 60 now. way faster.

OR you could do 50-60 farming elementals.

[deep spruce]

I've not found the invasion too good tbh

as soon as you run out of rested xp

its inefficient

I only have one more toon to do and its 50-60

[warm plinth]

I'd suggest WoD as well, especially if you haven't actually done WoD on that toon. The intro/garrison start is very fast XP

[tropic scroll]

WoD's leveling is also pretty fun!

[lone eagle]

Spires of Arrak also giga

you get 20% exp after the first round of quests

the first quests pretty big part of the exp budget but the 20% exp bonus still makes up for it after

Frostfire > Spires will get you 60

[frosty hawk]

Question about talent allocation. I have not seen any M+ guide recommend Disrupting Shout, and i was wondering why, any one got an insight? Im fairly new to tanking so that might be why i dont see it, but to me this is an easy pick as it gives me an AOE 6sec silence and taunt in one. Seems pretty good for large pack pulls with casters etc

[lone eagle]

It's situational but you rarely have more kicks to do than kicks and stops you have available

Since it's in the spec tree it competes with very, very good points that either impact your damage or survivability

[sand pebble]

shockwave, stormbolt, shield charge stun, pummel, interupts via group - its very niche tbh

[lone eagle]

Not to mention you often will use the AoE taunt to... AoE taunt

[frosty hawk]

Ah yes, thats good points

[lone eagle]

having to reserve it for AoE interrupts that might randomly get covered by others and diminish its value isn't very worth

esp on a 2m CD

[sand pebble]

spell reflect

[lofty widget]

Its not Even a silence so you need mobs to actually cast to get Any value out of it

[pallid quiver]

Its main use would be to gather far apart caster mobs into one pack for AOE purposes if you're unable to LOS/need to stay somewhere where you cannot LOS, but that situation currently doesn't pop up

It's a utility point that's not that immediately useful outside of niche scenarios

[short vale]

Been farming beta keys for a while and I found like 2 packs I could get reliable use out of it (the 6 flowers and 4 flowers packs at the start of azure vault) - dropping a point somewhere to control over these pulls doesn't feel good imo
If the group really (but REALLY) has no aoe stops other than my shockwave/aoe fear - I might pick it - but I doubt thats ever the case
It shortens the aoetaunt to 1:30 which is cool, but the kick part I couldn't really get much use of

[frosty hawk]

Thanks guys, good points 🙂 Ill drop the talent too

[light haven]

Hello:) all pre-patch m+ builds I see use into the Frey instead of heavy repercussions which I’m not sure I understand. Ranged dps and healer rarely feels like they are within 10 yards in a 5 man setting?

[warm plinth]

Enemies and allies my friend

[light haven]

Ohhh

[warm plinth]

Not just allies

[light haven]

I’m new;D

[warm plinth]

No worries; it's a common misunderstanding

[light haven]

Big thanks:)

[mild otter]

Alright boys. Give it to me straight before I start this gnome questline.

I haven't seen any nerfs up until the most recent 11/22 update. I'm between VDH and prot warrior, and leaning toward warrior since fury and arms are also looking good. How does prot compare to VDH in terms of utility for m+ and survivability?

[warm plinth]

All tanks are pretty beefy in DF in terms of survival. Probably comparable in utility? In my opinion, they're probably close enough that you can play whichever one is more fun.

Havoc is also looking very strong right now, for what it's worth.

[mild otter]

From the (questionably sourced) people I've randomly looked up on YT, they all seem to think fury and arms are both much stronger than havoc at the moment. I've also never played warrior whereas I previously played VDH. So..kinda leaning warrior. (no transmog items will suck though)

[short vale]

Imo utility wise vdh is god-levels of control, prot warr isn't far behind though
and tankiness - prot warr wins imo (once I got my vdh at beta to 18s-19s I started getting trucked by melees - as vdh often does, and on the same pulls prot warr didnt even require anything over shield block :p)

[obsidian path]

War will always have two dps specs, at least one will be good

[mild otter]

Gnome racial seems absurdly strong for pve content o.O Am I misreading it or is it actually that good?

Primary every 5s or something and then huge CD for under 20% hp?

[warm plinth]

What racial are you referring to? Escape Artist?

Oh, mechagnome

[mild otter]

Emergency Protocol I think its called.

[short vale]

havoc is batshit crazy rn if played well
don't think anyone can really compare to it at the moment

[obsidian path]

And fury has the choice of 1-handers and 2-handers, even tho 2-handers are better you never know if they implement some god-tier proc on 1-handers

[warm plinth]

Single Minded Fury should just be removed from the game honestly

[obsidian path]

Naaah it's great for tanks

[warm plinth]

How is it great for tanks

[obsidian path]

They can use their previous weapon and still have fun

[mild otter]

The weapon updates were weird. I came back and apparently brewmaster uses a polearm now..but somehow DW is better?

[warm plinth]

Dual wield = two weapon enchants

[mild otter]

Ah..I guess fair. Seems it'd depend on the power of wep enchants no? Like 2H might have some nutty ones 1h can't use

[obsidian path]

Or some proc effects on the weapon itself

[warm plinth]

I don't think we've had segregated 1h/2h enchants for quite a while

Not in the last couple expansions anyway

[mild otter]

Isn't it that way for DF? Or did I remember wrong. Looked at so much new things lately.

[obsidian path]

Like Jaytis and Gavel, those procs are wild

[warm plinth]

I'm not sure; haven't really looked at anything in DF as far as enhancements.

I know some of the stuff just took a big hit

gems and something else that I can't recall

[noble lynx]

They something with monk numbers so they were playing 2handers at the end of shadowlands

[short vale]

I didn't see any 2h/1h exclusive enchants in DF

[tropic sundial]

Feels like SMF will suck until they find a way to compensate the stat budget difference sadly. Probably can compensate weapon damage with the current %dmg buff on SMF, but the stat difference is huge.

[obsidian path]

In your case ChocoBlanc0, I would go warrior to have more versatility on the dps side. There will always a dps spec/build that performs. Prot is great

[warm plinth]

If it were me, I'd just remove SMF entirely and just let fury mog both 1h and 2h weapons

[obsidian path]

I think the current way is good enough.

Fury is a 2-hander spec, SMF is for people that don't have access to 2-handers (tanks for example) or people who want to trade damage for mobility (not worth it)

[warm plinth]

Accomplishes the flavor difference without trying to awkwardly include a talent that has basically never been competitive

[obsidian path]

I would love to have loose transmog rules : tank with a spear and have access to smaller weapon models when dps

[tropic sundial]

Yeah it'd definitely work too

[tropic sundial]

Not like 5% movement speed is worth the damage loss for sure lol

[mild otter]

Got it. I'll just accept the mecha as punishment for not playing plate previously.

Seems they can't mog for shit 😂

[obsidian path]

Yep, we don't really need the speed. We got 3 charges and a leap !

But I would go SMF for transmog runs

Or if I were a main spec tank

[tropic sundial]

Would love to play around with Frenzied Flurry with TG though. 50% chance to enrage on auto attack crits sounds nice (not that we have an issue with enrage uptime lol)

[warm plinth]

Especially if you go that side of the tree

Because you also get forced into deft experience which gives bloodthirst a 1 gcd cooldown

[tropic sundial]

yeah, the SMF/FF appendage of the tree is weird and useless as it is.

with the SMF talk i thought we were in the Fury channel but just realized this is prot lol

[warm plinth]

lol

[mild otter]

Well now that I've started this godforsaken quest line i'm committed.

[warm plinth]

Also I'll say it, mechagnomes are aesthetically underrated 😦

[mild otter]

Hoping the gnome passive works in DF also. Especially if it lets me randomly do BS crafts while outside.

[warm plinth]

I love them

[mild otter]

My mustache will rule them all.

[tropic sundial]

Limited mogs though

[pulsar marsh]

what would be the best professions for M+/Raiding in DF?

[mild otter]

Since every profession is now able to craft mythic raid gear, any of them.

LW crafts mail+leather so you get more options.

[short vale]

Thats not precise, everything is craftable via work orders other than engi head

[mild otter]

Well yea, but you can obviously craft it cheaper yourself. Hence the rec.

[pulsar marsh]

So Alchemy (longer duration of consumables) and Enchanting (disenchanting the loads of gear in M+) is not best anymore?

[short vale]

so if you plan to run 2 tinkers: CR + invis/failproof tinkering, you have to be engi 🙂
And the 1 power-related perk I heard of is the toxic potions part of alchemy

[pulsar marsh]

I mean I'm not trying to gear up by crafting - im gonna farm M+ all day long

[mild otter]

I mean money = power.

So if you're considering it I figured you'd go hard.

[short vale]

tinkers are big: cr, invis and the failproof next tinker use to avoid failure might be big too (if fail CR is bad for example)
having 2 might be game-changing in m+

[pulsar marsh]

what is a Tinker? 😄

[mild otter]

I don't know if it'd be worth it to sac gold gen for double tinker.

[short vale]

engineering perk

[mild otter]

Unless you don't care about econ at all and just want pure output.

[pulsar marsh]

awesome - now that is interesting 🙂

found this in the spreadsheet - so yeah no money, but according to you more dps 😄

[short vale]

Engi gear gets 1 pure stat (100% vers for example) and a tinker socket u can put specific power in like CR, invis, some more memeish powers I didn't quite like and a failproof use

there are 2 engi slots, bracers (everyone can buy at workorders) and head (you can buy in workorder, but to use you have to be engineer yourself - level 1)

ye engi is a money sink, same as always, but the perks are usually worthy if you're not really needing prof as a money-maker
also if you're really into m+, usually early season boosting is a much better money making source (I'd guess +15-20s in DF will be big early on)

Im going to run engi/alch myself

[tropic sundial]

Engi also has the raise pylon for raiding I guess

[short vale]

true, might also enable some ridiculous deathskips in m+ once again

[gaunt bolt]

Will you have an auction house in the new base without engineering? That was also a big plus for me till now

[tropic sundial]

Yeah that's always a perk

Also, lootarang, god I love this thing

[short vale]

yes theres a free for all auctionhouse in valdrakken 😦

[tropic sundial]

well, there is a first to everything i guess, sucks for engis lol

[gaunt bolt]

Alright thanks

[marble cipher]

I usually run engi only for wormhole tbf, sadly this expansion I'll actually have to level it further than skill 1 to not have a "random" wormhole 😦

[mellow quartz]

Wormhole is nice but dragonriding make it less useful especially with 1 large map and not 4 zones split like SL.

[marble cipher]

true

will certainly go alch, don't know about the second one yet (usually engi), haven't looked at professions and their perks yet tbf...

[gusty perch]

I just woke up and saw the patch. No changes is good changes!

We're getting so close to release and mythic week that every time I see wowhead post a balance patch I involuntarily clench my cheeks.

[limpid anchor]

No changes? We got nerfed! Well, indirect, but nerf is a nerf!

[severe hatch]

Eh? We got buffed, Bloodsurge back to 10%

[mellow quartz]

Brew and vdh got its damage nerfed so indirect buff vs them. Indirect nerf vs ppal. Many of these changes were in the notes from last week though on beta.

[minor sparrow]

really?

[severe hatch]

Yes, Arms and Prot use the same Spell ID for Bloodsurge

[slow epoch]

hey, one of you have a plater script to change nameplate color when they're aggro"d by a earth elem or drood trees ? tyvm those I found on wago are not updated

[limpid anchor]

Do you not like the heart attacks

[slow epoch]

hahaha ofc I like that but sometimes... late night u know

that's scary :c

[cunning oar]

Mornin', everyone. Quick question. I'm just getting into prot tanking. It's my understanding that I should be aiming to have a 100% uptime on shield block, right?

[mortal brook]

Full coverage vs incoming phys hits is ideal. Which wont always look like 100% uptime cuz travel, movement, natural downtime of fights.

[plush tendon]

With all your talents, you should just have 100% SB uptime

Requires very little thought, unless you forgo certain talent choices

[slim dove]

you want 100% effective uptime.

[plush tendon]

you pretty much have both

[cunning oar]

Okay, thanks. I'm trying to get myself out of the "leveling" mindset where damage matters and go more into "mitigation" mindset and just hold threat and stay alive.

[marble cipher]

damage always matters 😄

[plush tendon]

Damage is king

[marble cipher]

(but,I understand what you mean of course)

[ocean bloom]

with most tanks if you are doing the correct dmg rotation you will also just be more tanky

[limpid anchor]

Sb gives damage

[modern brook]

The entire spec can be summed up in keep shield dlam on cooldown, shield block rolling, and never rage cap

[cunning oar]

SB makes shield slam hit harder, correct? Or are there other ways it boosts dmg?

[limpid anchor]

Yes

[modern brook]

30% more damage to ss yeH

[tropic sundial]

How do you guys decide when to IP or when to Revenge for Rage dumping?

[cunning oar]

That's what I've been trying to do. SS on cooldown, use rage for SB, then spare rage for revenge. Oh, and use Thunderclap on cooldown, too

IP is the heal, right?

[tropic sundial]

shield

Ignore Pain

[oak echo]

Use IP when you need to dump rage between gcds to stop you from overcapping

[cunning oar]

Oh, right. I use IP when I start taking decent dmg to help my healer out.

[tropic sundial]

No need to try and keep super uptime on IP then? That sounds way nicer than trying to haha

[ocean bloom]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/148897941883584512/1040704433014702170/image.png this is an example opener

theres a lot of IP

just to not cap rage

[oak echo]

You don’t really want to make a decision between revenge and ignore pain. Especially with our new tier where Rev applies IP

You use IP so often to stop over capping anyways

[mellow quartz]

you had 4 seconds before putting up SB?

looks like a terrible opener

[ocean bloom]

its not me lol, this is from nomeratur

[sturdy sable]

If he doesnt have booming voice he might have needed rage

[ocean bloom]

this was from M+ too

[sturdy sable]

Delayed shield slam tho

[mellow quartz]

@strong forum is bad, confirmed

🙂

[ocean bloom]

so he probably had sb from previous pack

[sturdy sable]

I guess he leaped in?

[mellow quartz]

in that case its not really an 'opener' as such

[modern brook]

charge gives block

assuming this is from beta

[sturdy sable]

You should passively have it up just from dumping excess rage

[mellow quartz]

he only SC's even later

[sturdy sable]

In beta? Shield charge does but not charge charge

[strong forum]

its AA first pull probably

🙂

or totjs first pull

[tropic sundial]

Yeah, figure i've been too focused on actively managing it, good to know

[ocean bloom]

i just yoinked it from the last time there was a log review D:

[strong forum]

ye the heroic leap indicates

[strong forum]

its a double pull

[sturdy sable]

Nope how dare you prove yourself right with facts and "source information"

[ocean bloom]

D:

[mellow quartz]

not really a good example of a generic opener though without context lol

[ocean bloom]

it gets the point that you press IP a lot in general across pretty well imo

[strong forum]

thats boss fight opener for me for example

ravager wasnt ready it seems

[mellow quartz]

what happened to "I always open with SC" 🙂

[strong forum]

had rage

its hard to find a 0 rage everything ready pull

here is crawth

but i guess demo wasnt ready

[dusk loom]

Start with raveger always and you wont find any rage issues on pull

And it will gurantee threat most of the times

[strong forum]

if you want to optimise dmg output you dont send ravager as first global

because theres a bug where you miss out on 1 entire tick if you dont send it in melee range

but yes in practice it plays better to send it before charge

[dusk loom]

I would rather lose small damage then making my pulls clunky. Thats my opinion

[strong forum]

obv

[solar blade]

cast ravager on player, problem solved xd

[tropic sundial]

God i hate ground targeted abilities, feels so clunky

[strong forum]

@heavy mirage or @stoic erminesor

done

[solar blade]

this^

[tropic sundial]

yeah at player is definitely the lazy way to go

[cunning oar]

Just caught up on all this. Where is that data image from, @strong forum ?

[sage granite]

does ravager work @signal pine?

[strong forum]

nothing works @ target

or well, abilties with target reticle

cant be used like that

[sage granite]

I see

[strong forum]

log- > casts -> timeline

[tropic sundial]

Yeah because people were bitching about targeted hunter traps in pvp

[mellow quartz]

wowanalyzers timeline is much better than wcl's

[modern brook]

thats a take

[mellow quartz]

it shows you much more information and shows you for how long CDs were active etc etc and what was pressed inside them in a much easier way than wcl

strictly speaking of timeline to timeline comparison

[sturdy sable]

It probably has to do with mobs being in combat or not

Ive been noticing it as well but only on mobs not tagged already

[strong forum]

has nothing to do with combat

or well, its both

if you send it outside of combat you lose 1 tick

if you send it outside of melee range you lose 1 tank

if you send it inside combat but from range, still lose 1 tick

its very hard to "notice"

unless you specifically check how many hits it did

[autumn atlas]

I saw someone saying blood surge went back to 10% but didn’t see that anywhere in notes. Am I blind or…?

[tropic sundial]

It did for Arms and prot shares the same spell id for it

[ocean bloom]

i feel bad for target cursor and player D:

[autumn atlas]

Ahh.

[strong forum]

incredibly likely that theyre not even active users

[minor helm]

They’ll be aight

[ocean bloom]

true

[minor helm]

Shoutout to the other Maid in here who eats pings for me sometimes

Love that guy

[strong forum]

@minor helm

[rigid isle]

im active in watching chat

[jagged pier]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/801876810261463041.gif?size=96&quality=lossless

[mortal brook]

[minor helm]

[limpid anchor]

@sick sentinel

[abstract token]

anyone got a spec for shockwave?

[mellow quartz]

Pins

Unless you mean at 60 then don’t pick shockwave.

[abstract token]

at 60

[plush tendon]

its not worth to take Shockwave at 60; youll pick it up on your way to 70... but you lose a lot by trying to take it

[wary heath]

god these Llarold videos are the best start to my day, that with a coffee

[main veldt]

anyone got a good Spell Block WA? one that tells you when a blockable spell is targeting you

[sturdy sable]

Nope

Gotta use ya head

[abstract token]

i would rather lose than not be able to play with my baby

shockwave the ultimate homie 🥺

[sonic tangle]

Try to maintain shield block always and memorize the spell reflect list. Just listen to that sweet sweet spell reflect sound for ultimate satisfaction

[modern brook]

The best Sr targets are often not targeted spells anyways

[abstract token]

this talent looks baller too

[sonic tangle]

Not having shockwave has made m+ kinda annoying but with enough tauren in your group you just warstomp

[keen rune]

is there a spellreflect list already?

[scarlet widget]

How’s Prot’s dmg looking following most recent tank tuning? Specifically in comparison to BrM/Bear

[abstract token]

this makes enough sense for me at least

[sonic tangle]

[wary heath]

remove shockwave for that capstone on the left, or wait until you are 70

[sonic tangle]

Yeah but you lose out on giga damage for thunderclap going shockwave

[wary heath]

or don't , and it will generally be the same experience but you'll do less damage

[mellow quartz]

it's 7 more days, do whatever you want as nothing matter in SL anymore 🙂

[sturdy sable]

6

[abstract token]

just trying to get a feel for prot again cause i havent tanked since legion

[sturdy sable]

Plug in the pinned build

And spend a few hours at a target dummy

[sonic tangle]

You can pick shockwave but you just lose out on the TC damage. If you're just doing low keys or heroics this week it should be aight

[abstract token]

probably just the normal 252

best talent to drop for bounding? I want this 100%, love the speed boost

[wary heath]

you can drop a talent or two in order to pick that up yeah, but if you are going full min/max damage, i dont think you can technically afford that one

there is a pinned post about that too

i dont really like that one personally

[abstract token]

it was great back with triple leap leggo

zoomin

[sick sentinel]

why dont i see a bug report option in the game. i want to report that my shield is floating in the air too much on my tauren

did they remove in game bug reports. or do i have to create a forum thread

[abstract token]

its there just hard to find

[mellow quartz]

this is what I run

[abstract token]

support button

[mellow quartz]

its a button in the UI on beta only, on live its via support

[wary heath]

so you gave up pain and gain in order to get bounding leap

[abstract token]

hmm i cant do it, free automatic healing sounds too good 😄

[sick sentinel]

@abstract tokenfinally. i see it thank you

[mellow quartz]

pain and gain is kinda whatever

[abstract token]

had the same problem earlier cheers m8

[wary heath]

pain and gain is definitely not required

but bounding leap I feel is weak

[mellow quartz]

pain and gain is abt 1800 hps

at 400 ilvl

[abstract token]

i dont speak healerese

I went with 1/2 crushing force to afford it

[mellow quartz]

that is a terrible decision

[wary heath]

both of nom's builds have pain and gain in them,

[mellow quartz]

swapped out the best talents for a random one

if you wanna drop something else drop 1 point in overwhelming rage

or int shout

[mellow quartz]

they also dont have bounding strides and he wanted to have one that fit that

[abstract token]

Its all random at the end of the day 🤔 I could drop stormbolt since im running shockwave

[wary heath]

don't drop stormbolt

[mellow quartz]

if you are running shockwave at 60 you are already trolling so whatever else you pick is pointless

[wary heath]

are you doing level 60 or level 70 talents ?

[abstract token]

60 for now

[wary heath]

then it probably doesn't matter too much, you can take shockwave for leveling

did you end up taking bounding stride ? that one also is good for leveling

so is pain and gain

hehe

[abstract token]

ya

Can you play without devastator?

[toxic gyro]

Ofc you can, you can play without any talent. It will play like shit without devastator, but you can play whatever you like.

[abstract token]

we played without it for several expansions 😅

[toxic gyro]

I mean go for it 🤷‍♂️

[neon fossil]

When comparing items, its it worth gearing mastery over vers for prot?

[wary heath]

it makes it play weird, I do not recommend. We have too many other buttons now

and ways to get rage

[agile elbow]

@neon fossil Fancy seeing you here, buddy. 😂

[neon fossil]

?

[plush tendon]

assuming equal I level, I would take the one with more haste

[wary heath]

I would probably pick the one on the right, juicy

[neon fossil]

Yea same

Just wanted peoples opinion on mastery stacking

[wary heath]

i would assume don't do it

[plush tendon]

Haste is still king

[toxic gyro]

Mastery is our lowest stat, but ilvl is king

[wary heath]

yeah but that's 6 ilvl,

you could sim it if you cared enough, or easy pick the right one

[plush tendon]

I think its safe to assume he can just upgrade it a couple of times

[neon fossil]

Yea, ilvl isnt the issue, I can always upgrade it.

[wary heath]

mastery sucks, avoid if possible

[abstract token]

ya seems like im getting more ss procs with dev on dummy, not too many dead globals either

so the question is what do you fill with when ss, rev, tc, IV are all on cooldown?

I was filling with stormbolt

[wary heath]

in M+ or in raid ?

[abstract token]

idk single target

[lofty widget]

rev doesnt have a cd

[wary heath]

you wont really have any downtime

in M+

[lofty widget]

there shouldnt be any dead globals

[abstract token]

0 rage 🤔

[wary heath]

you are missing some moves in that list you mentioned

shield charge is a global now

demo shout

[abstract token]

uhhh i dont have shield charge 🤔

[lofty widget]

only time you have dead globals is if youre extremely unlucky with SS procs or playing wrong

[wary heath]

impending victory

i mean there are lots of moves

especially in raid

in M+...you're doing ravagers...shield charges....demos...stormbolts...revenge....there is no downtime

[abstract token]

ya it was a no ss proc streak

[abstract token]

shield charge is a covenant thing? i dont have that

[wary heath]

no it's a talent !

look at nom's ST build in the pinned comment

[vestal moat]

do y'all think its faster to level as prot or fury / arms

60-70

[abstract token]

dps fasterrr

[wild hemlock]

buying one of these for ignore pain lmaoooo https://www.elgato.com/en/stream-deck-pedal

its a joke its for ignore pain but i really like heaving a few keybinds for my feet lmao

[sand egret]

push to talk on foot pedal is a tale as old as time

[abstract token]

why does impending victory heal for 30% on a 25sec cooldown when last stand is a 3min cd that does the same

[jagged pier]

because LS is bad

and it doesnt heal

it just adds 30% flat hp to your hp bar

[abstract token]

they should nerf iv

[jagged pier]

https://tenor.com/view/no-bugs-bunny-nope-gif-14359850

[ionic roost]

PTT if you're stuck in a cringe guild that forces it in channels

Otherwise toggle mute is bis

[odd tree]

Depends. Tank leveling is great if you plan on rounding up mobs and just aoeing them down.

[wary heath]

what do you mean LS doesn't heal

[jagged pier]

it gives u 30% extra hp that completely different to healing 30%

if u popped LS took no damage

and took no healing

if the buff wore off

u would be on the exact same hp u started with before u used it

[wild hemlock]

omggggggggggggggggggggggg PTT is huge ordering now

[wary heath]

so just use it sub 70% health then

[jagged pier]

thats doesnt put u to 100% tho

[wary heath]

am i stupid

okay yes i see that now

[jagged pier]

because u will have 130% hp

[wary heath]

but it gives you more current health to survive something

[jagged pier]

well u should use it to boost your hp before a mechanic

not after

it shouldnt be used as a heal

[wary heath]

okay yeah i see what you mean

does this buff to bloodsurge change nom's pinned build about instigate

[jagged pier]

no

[wary heath]

bloodsurge is back on the menu

[jagged pier]

bloodsurge still used in lots of m+ not all

it depends one what your doing high tyran keys

u will probs run instegate

and dungeons with small/ little trash pulls and amounts

[lyric elm]

do you guys usually mark targets in high keys? assign interrupts for a person etc

i would like to improve my play this exp

[jagged pier]

u should if your pugging

[lyric elm]

and DF seems to be very coordination heavy

yea partially pugging. but looking to form up with some regulars

its hard to get 5 people going however

[plush tendon]

I usually just use a automarker weakaura

[lyric elm]

from what ive seen on streams, if you fail an interrupt then dps falls over and thats it

[odd tree]

There are some auto markers, I use them in my groups and when pugging.

[lyric elm]

can you reccommend one?

[mighty valley]

i keybind skull for prio target, but i rarely pug so i can usually just call key interrupts

[odd tree]

Check wago, I have yet to find the one I'll use for DF

[lyric elm]

yea i got alt 1,2,3,4,5 for em

[mighty valley]

slows my brain down too much to mark everything every pull

[plush tendon]

https://wago.io/3bViaBtT1 this seems like a good one

[lyric elm]

thanks

yes i recall the author

[abstract token]

first run felt great, no aggro loss and just aoeing like crazy

is there some huge perk from hitting bigger SS or is it just for dps?

[odd tree]

Ss hits hard as is, why not make it hit harder

[jagged pier]

in ST like 30-40% of your daamage is SS and in keys its like your 3rd on bosses

u take it

[plush tendon]

SS big dam, make big dam do more big dam

[abstract token]

i guess im dropping stormbolt then

cant find anything else ugly

[jagged pier]

no just look in the pins

[abstract token]

im good on reading a novel bruh

having to learn 6 diff classes 12 different specs each with 100 talents is enough already

[mighty valley]

just pretty sure there's another talent worse than storm bolt you could be dropping

[mighty egret]

is he a sidearm gamer?

[grizzled forge]

Have they mentioned if ally and horde can guild together in next xpac or still not a thing yet?

[abstract token]

idk I want intervene too

[mighty valley]

sidearm is like 0.5% damage

[odd tree]

Not sure I'll miss intervene

[mighty valley]

also barbaric training might be tough to run at 70 with lower rage gen

[jagged pier]

thats a 60 build

[mighty valley]

wait

take UF

[lyric elm]

its nice but you wont use it much

[abstract token]

no i want shockwave, deal with it 😎

[lyric elm]

as prot war you can just stand and take it forever, no kite meta

[abstract token]

kite is only last resort, I just like the mobility

[cerulean tusk]

Intervene to absorb damage on others felt nice tho

[abstract token]

more mobility more options

[jagged pier]

i mean at 60 we dont have the points fir shockwave, but if u want it cant stop u

[mighty valley]

it's just funny to take shockwave over UF but take sidearm over SB lmao

but it's all your choice

[abstract token]

shockwave is chad, im sure it will feel less stupid at 70

[lyric elm]

ye its nice. and sidearm is mostly useless anyway so. go for it

can def save some squish people

[cobalt seal]

you might as well lose the one-hand spec

[lyric elm]

if people die thats.. a huge dps loss

[cobalt seal]

than the TC capstone

[abstract token]

🤔

[cobalt seal]

why did I think you knew warrior talents xD

rocky mistake

[lyric elm]

ah i had you blocked for a reason i see

back you go sir

[cobalt seal]

bye

/wave

[mighty egret]

whats so chad about a 2 sec stun that does peanuts for dmg

[abstract token]

it shockwave bro

[mighty egret]

this isnt wotlk anymore

[abstract token]

you dont miss your homie shockwave?

[mighty valley]

sometimes i do but if i took it i'd miss my homie Doing Damage more

[mighty egret]

i would rather do more dam

[jagged pier]

i mean shockwave is great in the same way intmidating shout and Stormbolt are they are all stops, which in really high keys is great

[abstract token]

i didnt realize we were a dps class

[jagged pier]

but i doubt anyone is doing that sort of content

so its pointless to take them

[stray knoll]

R people taking shockwave for m+ or no? the wowhead build does not take it...

[mighty valley]

that's the secret, bread

we're all dps classes

[abstract token]

green dps is my favorite dps

[stray knoll]

Wondering wow shockwave is excluded from the m+ builds

[cobalt seal]

i didn't realize tanks were only there to tank

but oh well

[mighty valley]

(also UF helps you generate insane rage in avatar which is offense + defense)

[lyric elm]

youre gonna need all the cc you can get in keys

[stray knoll]

Healers r there to dps as well 😛

[stray knoll]

but the wowhead m+ builds excluse shockwave etc..

[cobalt seal]

does it?

or that's a 60 build

[abstract token]

imagine spending rage on anything but revenge spam

[lyric elm]

its a cookie cutter build. its not damage efficient

[tropic sundial]

the 60 build? yeah it doesnt have enough points for it

[cobalt seal]

where you dont have the freedom of choice?

[mighty valley]

imagine not overcapping

[abstract token]

theres a talent for that

[lyric elm]

youre not gonna use sw for leveling

[mighty valley]

if you're not generating enough rage to need to press IP you're getting piss value out of anger management and probably not keeping up banner

[abstract token]

wtf is banner

[stray knoll]

Ohhh woops I forgot we have ten more points to spend at 70. Silly question do we spend 10 more points for the spec tree or 10 class and 10 spec so 20?

[minor helm]

5 and 5

[stray knoll]

aight

[lyric elm]

you get 1 per level, distributed alternating

[tropic sundial]

the 70 builds are in the pins

[stray knoll]

so we will defo take Shockwave.

[lyric elm]

later yes

[mighty valley]

banner is a cool buff that gives us 20%+ strength and rage gen constantly

but will be gone in a week T_T

[abstract token]

never heard of it

quit making up abilities, shadowlander

[lyric elm]

so what are we called in df

scaly enjoyers

[jagged pier]

worst tank i hope

[cerulean tusk]

Adventurer

[lyric elm]

hehe. that would be cute

[tropic sundial]

As long as it's not "CHAMPION" with Magni's accent

[lyric elm]

mooooortal

[cerulean tusk]

Teh wuuuuunds

[lyric elm]

craii

[abstract token]

is this viable for 70? since we clip clapping a bleed at all times and also deep wounds?

[lyric elm]

magni was goated though. funny character

yes that one is very good

youll take roar with it

[jagged pier]

please read the pins

[cobalt seal]

https://tenor.com/view/austin-powers-dr-evil-how-gif-19601238

[abstract token]

👍

[jagged pier]

i mean it is stated when u join to please read the pins first

[lyric elm]

idk just ask if you have questions. the people here dont have anything better to do

[abstract token]

i just discussing pls dont hurt me

i dont want spear, spear big lamme

[wary heath]

it is viable at 70 yes, but also check the pins

[outer thorn]

i work with consulting, if people did what theyd been told to do numerous time id be out of a job xD

[lyric elm]

being proactive is a waste of time, sending email with instructions etc

people dont read

[abstract token]

i play with feels not facts

[tropic sundial]

I can already feel the rage overflow when we can get Roar, Ravager and Champion's Bulwark at 70. Going to have to push that IP hotkey like madmen in the opener

[lyric elm]

we'll be a high apm class thats for sure

[wary heath]

this might be the wrong discord then haha. it's mostly about facts

[cobalt seal]

then why are you here?

o_O

[abstract token]

i learning new(old) spec

[outer thorn]

@tropic sundial i legit was thinking about having alternate binds for all my skills with IP macroed into them for those situations

[abstract token]

pls no bully

[lyric elm]

you should block that guy

[cobalt seal]

you should just move on

deal with it

[cobalt seal]

ask away on spec, asking about the talent tree when you base it on feels

is a bit inconsequential

[lyric elm]

its fine that kyrian is bottom tier, im tired of seeing that shit anyway

surprised they didnt recolor it

[cerulean tusk]

My best advice is: test it all out and have fun doing so. Then come back when you want to minmax

[abstract token]

shield charge looks pretty chad actually

[jagged pier]

https://tenor.com/view/no-bugs-bunny-nope-gif-14359850

[lyric elm]

coolest skill we got imo

really nice to get your block up

[jagged pier]

u should not marco IP to anything because u will waste rage when u dont want too

[abstract token]

its 1 point, drop indom for it cause being tanky is for wimps? 😎

[outer thorn]

@jagged pier I said alternate binds?

[mighty valley]

i'm tempted to try nom's thing of macroing SS into IP

and not the other way around

[lyric elm]

its kinda useless without the point that gives you block automatically

so you need to sink 2

[jagged pier]

use it its great

[abstract token]

I definitely dont have 2 points at 60 but maybe 70

[jagged pier]

you'll click the wrong one a lot of times

[abstract token]

70 looks like you get both rav and shield charge then 👀

[strong forum]

yes

[jagged pier]

i may run that now

[strong forum]

this is looking to be one of the default builds

well instead of intervene you get intimdating shout*

[abstract token]

spearbabbies mad

[outer thorn]

did anyone ever make that list of absorbs in the beta m+ rotation to see if Wrecking Throw would be usable as a situational utility pick?

[mighty valley]

no one is hype for spear in DF

well, no prot is

[abstract token]

screw shout

[minor sparrow]

what is this?

[strong forum]

/cast Ignore Pain /cast Shield Slam

[jagged pier]

☝️

[strong forum]

specifically to only replace your ignore pain keybind

not to be used as anything else but your IP keybind

[minor sparrow]

interesting

[obtuse scaffold]

Explain for smooth brain rage havers

Just to dump rage?

[abstract token]

since its ogcd you just bind it to something else with no disadvantage really

[strong forum]

IP is there to dump rage

SS is your highest prio spell

so when you want to dump rage, and SS happens to reset, you safe a few milliseconds each time

[obtuse scaffold]

Oh derp. I read it as shield block

And was really confused

[mighty valley]

yeah it just snipes resets you might not've been fast enough to get

[obtuse scaffold]

Dig it. Thanks!

[strong forum]

also helps with preventing of overcapping with outburst

[abstract token]

sunder is gone 😠

where is my sunder bros?

[jagged pier]

good

[strong forum]

sunder is gone for over 10 years

[abstract token]

Nooo bring it back

[strong forum]

no

[jagged pier]

now get rid of devastator talent and make it baseline

[obtuse scaffold]

Tab sunder

[ebon gorge]

Wait for 3 then dps

[obtuse scaffold]

^^

[strong forum]

bring back kakushans

[outer thorn]

@jagged pier honestly after seeing the mess that is the druid tree im so happy with pwar not having to talent half our baseline kit

[abstract token]

in 5 mins of testing the rotation is too busy without dev 😐 😐

[jagged pier]

bring tuskarrs as playable race

[minor helm]

Real and true

[obtuse scaffold]

2000%

[abstract token]

what do u guys think about execute

[jagged pier]

[abstract token]

execute memes for prog bosses?

check the pins its already there?

[jagged pier]

it does more ST damage to take SD than show of force

but u dont really press it on anything but ST

and even then with tier set

u more likely than not dont press it

cause u got to revenge to keep the buff up

[strong forum]

rn

[abstract token]

whats prot tier

[strong forum]

if you dont use execute at all with my current scuffed sim

you only lose 300 dps

[jagged pier]

[shut summit]

[wary heath]

remove execute on action bar to save room

[jagged pier]

https://tenor.com/view/no-bugs-bunny-nope-gif-14359850

[strong forum]

you get more execute uses with sudden death than you send normally

over 5minutes

fucking great

[abstract token]

dont u want big staxx

[jagged pier]

punish is more damage

[strong forum]

you cant even get this to stack to 15

before boss dies

lmao

[wary heath]

no cause the monk in your party is going to execute everything before you can

[strong forum]

literally all execute talents are bait

dont play them

[sturdy sable]

Dont worry theyll pull a slands and only tune execute on pwar

Slowly giving it % increases till it gets out of hand

Just in time for the next expansion

[strong forum]

this time we dont have banner

[sturdy sable]

And the cycle continues

[abstract token]

hhmmmm yeah punish just looks like a S tier talent baseline

[sturdy sable]

Not yet

[strong forum]

Banner played a huge role as to why our execute was so strong

[abstract token]

imagine your team dies and its just you and the healer and you're pressing exe getting those juicy stacks

[mighty valley]

hoping for the dream where we get huge execute buffs plus 10.3 raid has a boss that starts at 30%hp

[strong forum]

then execute will still be very meh

even if you buff it by 45%

[sturdy sable]

We get it you also need the rage gen to fuel the machine

[modern brook]

I currently play with condemn and the execute talents are still traps 😦

[mighty valley]

they murdered my baby condemn

[sturdy sable]

But saying "if they also buff the rage economy inside of execute ontop of also buffing executes output" doesn't quite roll of the tongue

[mighty valley]

9.0 condemn was beautiful

[modern brook]

executes? in this economy?

[sturdy sable]

Topping damage for the first 40s of a pull was choice

[mighty valley]

our first sludgefist kill came down to only me being alive and slamming condemn

[sturdy sable]

Condemn felt so meaty to cast

[mighty valley]

as the walls fell

[sturdy sable]

I was also venth for sludge fist prog lol

[mighty valley]

then they buffed regular execute and venthyr soulbinds/legendaries were all ass

cowards

[abstract token]

who needs this? just execute instead

[sturdy sable]

And around that time we got reprisal

[abstract token]

go into battle stance and smash on execute

[mighty valley]

i don't think i've left battle stance since the talents dropped

then again i haven't done anything above a 20

[mighty egret]

i thought we were a tank

[abstract token]

we're prodps, protection is dead

it feels better without protection anyway

[sturdy sable]

Go into b stance? You mean never leave it in the first place right

[abstract token]

u what

[sturdy sable]

You uhh really only want to be in Dstance for busters and high intakes of damage

[mighty egret]

it was a joke

[sturdy sable]

And the obligatory "and in high keys" since someones going to say it

[abstract token]

is damage really so low that you dont even care about 20% mit

sounds like they need to fix this game

[sturdy sable]

Its almost like its an active mitigation tool and not a set and forget

You should be maximizing your dps output as much as you can

[abstract token]

i aint stance dancing son

do i look like a dancer to you

[sturdy sable]

Aight enjoy being factually worse then ppl who are

[strong forum]

no.

read again

i bind SS to IP

big difference

[storm shell]

for real?

[strong forum]

yes

[jagged pier]

u still have a seperate SS bind as well

[strong forum]

❗ its NOT 1 keybind to use for both buttons, its 1 keybind exclusively for IP ❗

so when you want to dump rage

you snipe SS resets

NOT the other way around

[sturdy sable]

What jist like
/Cast shield slam
/Cast ignore pain

Nothing fancy?

[strong forum]

other way around

also very important

to have IP first

[sturdy sable]

❤️

[modern brook]

so you dont burn the rage from the slam

[strong forum]

so you dump first before you generate again

assuming SS is ready

if its not ready, IP obv behaves like normal

[sturdy sable]

Thats a great idea

[heavy warren]

guys can you pass me the raid talents?

[jagged pier]

[heavy warren]

oh ty

[frigid gulch]

Hey guys, how much should I be using ignore pain? I’m using the prot weakaura setup, and it’s not even showing as a button, I get that it’s tracked by the bar, but not sure how easy i should make the key bind as not sure how much I should be pressing it

[sturdy sable]

When ever you have more rage then you can spend on block and revenge

Is when you should be ignoreing pain

You use it to avoid over capping

[sturdy sable]

Youll be using it alot so put it somewhere comfy i have it on F

[eager schooner]

IP on mousewheel up+down gang

[frigid gulch]

Thanks bois much appreciated

[gritty swallow]

What is the key level that people are starting to find themselves having to sit in dstance a little bit more (acknowledging this will be different for different players)

I ran some 25-27s last week and this week and saw myself having to use it more

[weary notch]

Wow, you should pin this. I'm too stupid to have thought of it and you just saved me an important keybind slot

[strong forum]

"saved"?

this macro doesnt reduce any kind of keybind slots

you still need 2

[lusty sundial]

You would still want to be able to cast SS on its own

[strong forum]

highest ive seen is 31 without dstance

but this was pre-22% buff

[weary notch]

Wait, I'm lost. Why would you still need an individual IP keybind (remember, I'm stupid)

[lofty widget]

the macro replaces your IP bind so you still have a bind for SS and one for IP (the macro)

[weary notch]

oh, oh, see, I'm dumb. So you can pool rage if needed and still hit SS

I kinda wish ignore pain were a little less spammy. The macro just helps you keep the global rolling smoothly if you happen to get a SS reset right as you're about to hit IP, in other words

[lofty widget]

if you dont want to SS youre just going between rev and TC so it doesnt change anything

no cause you wouldnt press the IP bind

if you dont wanna SS you dont wanna IP either

[strong forum]

yes

thats the exact use case

[mellow quartz]

is this the best WA for pugging at the start of the expansion?
https://wago.io/o092on3_m

[strong forum]

kek

[fast knot]

Oh my God lol

[mellow quartz]

no more writing!

[strong forum]

extremely rare situation

where youd want to rev over SS, and you can still spam IP during the GCD

[weary notch]

but I do still wish IP cost a little more rage and was a little more powerful to compensate. Feels overly spammy. Not quite "bind it to my mouse wheel" spammy like in legion, but it feels like it would be cleaner to me if I had to hit IP a little less often

[chilly brook]

Well

Stop thinking about it as something you have to hit

Think of it as something you use to not cap rage

[flint plank]

Sorry for dumb question. But if you’re talented into blood and thunder. Can you remove rend from your bar ? If it’s applied with thunder shock ?

[lyric elm]

yes

youll never use rend

[flint plank]

Ok didn’t wanna flat out remove it if there was a chance to use it without lol

Ty lol

[potent gulch]

Do we press execute at level 70?

[strong forum]

only on ST

and when you have nothing else to press

1%

[potent gulch]

You mean it goes upper in priority then revenge right?

[flint plank]

Do you need to talent into rend for it to apply from thunder shock ? Or can you bypass it

[potent gulch]

Thanks

[minor helm]

You need rend

[strong forum]

yeah okay so, if you never use execute and only use the SD procs of execute, you only lose 500dps with my current numbers

[lusty tiger]

Wtf

[strong forum]

and you lose 15% uptime on tierset if you prio execute over revenge

[potent gulch]

In %?

[lusty tiger]

Wtf

[strong forum]

1.7%

[potent gulch]

Significant

[strong forum]

and if you only press execute when SS, TC are on CD and you have tierset up

then you only lose 200dps, but gain 10% tierset uptime

[lusty tiger]

🪑🎣

[outer thorn]

do you have to have ignore pain currently active for the 4pc to add to it or does it give you an IP buff if you dont have one active?

[strong forum]

so we have
Execute > Revenge at all cost - 33.1k dps 69% tierset uptime
Revenge > Execute if no tierset up - 32.9k dps 80.1% tierset uptime
Never Execute outside of SD procs - 32.6k dps 84.5% tierset uptime

[potent gulch]

So. What's the verdict Mr orange

[strong forum]

id honestly never execute outside of SD

much better to play

and leaves room to press IP defensively

[lone eagle]

Just play bear

[potent gulch]

Roger that

[strong forum]

its such a pain in the ass to play around tierset if and try to juggle executes

its better to just forego using rage on execute and continue as normal

that way you dont fuck up the rotation

[potent gulch]

Do we have Sims across all tanks?

[strong forum]

rogues spreadsheet is disgusting

[lone eagle]

Unsure on every tanks status, but prot warr is probably lowest single target atm

[strong forum]

i had a look at it today

[lone eagle]

esp after paladin buffs to ST

Bear is probably competitive for first now that the Brew nerfs came in

as far as ST dam goes

[strong forum]

ive not done any optimisation to it yet, and from preliminary dummy testings ive beaten the SHIT out of other tanks

[lone eagle]

Single target?

[strong forum]

ye just dummy gaming

[lone eagle]

Did something change?

[strong forum]

like, i do more dmg than my sim does

cuz i didnt work on it for long yet

[pallid quiver]

have you considered that you are simply a god gamer and those tanks are pleb gamers?

[strong forum]

absolutely a fact

[pallid quiver]

after all, you were smart enough to choose to play prot warrior

[strong forum]

but like, if i can beat my sim, i obv have lots to work on the sim

[lone eagle]

IDK, I'd be surprised if it beats "well played" bear on ST

[strong forum]

nothing should beat a bear

[lone eagle]

but I know you're also more referring to discrepancies between reality and your sim

[modern brook]

the apl will just be a: apply_nomeratur

[lone eagle]

https://tenor.com/view/fight-bear-funny-mma-gif-5030266

[pallid quiver]

i once beat a bear with my bare hands at 10 years old

[lone eagle]

introducing new class

Bearmaster

The most terrifying tank