These discords, all of them, have terrible advice for new players.
#protection
ebon wren
jagged pier
The satey net is too big
outer solstice
and they should not need to, if they don't want to and are just playing to relax with friends
mellow quartz
You only learn to play better by challenging yourself. You challenge yourself sooner by being in B stance.
ebon wren
People who only clear +18's arguing with Plka, lol.
mellow quartz
Running 15s on beta you learn nothing being in d stance
jagged pier
and they should not need to, if they don't want to and are just playing to relax...
Yes thats fine but very very rarely do ppl come in here with advice to play chill with there friends, its 99% about how to be best and whats best whats the most optimized way to play etc etc
oblique garnet
People who only clear +18's arguing with Plka, lol.
outer solstice
Yes thats fine but very very rarely do ppl come in here with advice to play chil...
yeah those ppl only read and rarely write and ask actively
jagged pier
Running 15s on beta you learn nothing being in d stance
I mean u learn nothing in bstance ither
strong forum
That's cuz 15s are just too easy
mellow quartz
You learn more of nothing
outer solstice
yeah but many ppl will try to do 20s now because of the new loot π
and that might hit them hard ^^
strong forum
The harder you get hit, the more quickly you will learn
mellow quartz
Depends on gear tbh. At 415 ilvl. Not so much.
strong forum
π€·ββοΈ
outer solstice
The harder you get hit, the more quickly you will learn
or the more frustrated you get,... other side of the same medal
jagged pier
For instance i will push for ppl to play with bstance until they cant keep playing with it. I mean even in the pop cast i said for prog i will be using bsv for last few mythis bosses at least.
ebon wren
Drohgoh's own discord, because the paladin one is shit advice also, has the best advice for playing any tank. If you want to learn that's where to go.. albeit it's mostly pally focused.
jagged pier
Are job here it to get ppl to understand there is a point when its needed
strong forum
or the more frustrated you get,... other side of the same medal
It do be like that
jagged pier
Not that its need all the time
cobalt seal
People who only clear +18's arguing with Plka, lol.
Yeah
Because people need to do the same keys as pika
To give advice
Gj
ocean bloom
or the more frustrated you get,... other side of the same medal
if you find learning frustrating maybe its not in your interest to be learning at that pace
outer solstice
if you find learning frustrating maybe its not in your interest to be learning a...
I'm not talking about myself, lol
ocean bloom
you being the person being frustrated
outer solstice
no
I tell you that people get frustrated
instead of learning
not that I do xD
mellow quartz
Who are these people you speak for?
patent osprey
No this discussion isn't like My advice > than others at all. I also have a very very biasd view cause I don't normally spam 15s, or have been a new warrior player in Forever. I only said what I thought because that was my experience with players coming into stream
outer solstice
Who are these people you speak for?
a lot of friends I used to play with 10 years ago that came back and struggle with normal raids and 15s,...
jagged pier
I mean it can be well and good but we've given a lot of advice to new players in SL not min max advice or difficult to follow advice, and the amount of time its gone ignored its alot alot. And the conversation moves more towards the min max stuff because the ppl that take on the advice come back and show improvement and ask more questions
patent osprey
My advice = the same as any other player in this disc, less so than the theorycrafters/stormforged/valkyr who answer hundreds of hours of new player questions
They are definitely who the advice should be coming from
strong forum
patent osprey
I was just giving my 2 cents on what they maybe don't see. Cause new players gravitate to twitch so much
jagged pier
U have more pull than use tho @patent osprey cause u stream and your io is higher literally no meme
strong forum
Like I said, I can fully see and understand that point
And it's hard to imagine for me to be entirely new
jagged pier
I think we all can nome
strong forum
So I'm also biased
jagged pier
And @patent osprey s a good point for us to get info off
strong forum
It's important to have multiple views
outer solstice
and I think everyone that wants to improve will end up at the same spot with stance fluidity
patent osprey
Noms normal is also the guy who runs 5 tank keys, so hes always in battle -_-
edgy belfry
isnt it better for a new player to run dstance by default and start experimenting with bstance once he gets comfortable and knows whats coming onto him? and not the other way around?
jagged pier
Hey what about me i pug as well as 5 tank and im still in b stance
strong forum
I likely will, but the keys I've ran without that group on beta I've also been in d-stance for a few globals
outer solstice
isnt it better for a new player to run dstance by default and start experimentin...
that's the whole discussion ^^
oblique garnet
isnt it better for a new player to run dstance by default and start experimentin...
Yes and no
mellow quartz
Did a 20 smbg and was in d stance once I think π€·ββοΈ
slim zinc
There are two angles
It's basically training wheels on bikes
Some learn faster with them on a bit
Others learn faster with them removed
strong forum
I'll remain on my Hill with b-stance because I tanked streets 29 first boss on tyr with only like 5 wogs on me
oblique garnet
Because dstance lets you get away with more rotational missplays than bstance
outer solstice
strong forum
But like I said, both points are valid
outer solstice
enjoy your weekend guys
strong forum
It's up to you to decide which you prefer
mellow quartz
D stance is just a 2 key level difference
strong forum
I can only recommend what I personally find the better way
cobalt seal
I can only recommend what I personally find the better way
But you only do 18s
strong forum
It's not a rulebook, everything is situational
ebon wren
yall act like losing 10% damage is gonna make a break a +15. guess what, it's not. you could do half your damage. You just need to be a training dummy for the dps, and you can pull larger with dstance.
mortal brook
ty twitch chat
jagged pier
mellow quartz
15s donβt do enough damage for d stance
strong forum
Pulls aren't limited by tanks surv, they're limited mechanically
outer solstice
strong forum
Aka interrupts/cc
If mobs do nothing, you pull like tree boss
35 mobs at once
If mobs do lethal casts that need to be handled, you pull as many as you can cover
That's how m+ works
outer solstice
in 15s you can just pull 1 pack at a time and be safe
cobalt seal
yall act like losing 10% damage is gonna make a break a +15. guess what, it's n...
Thx twitchchatuser420
strong forum
Absolutely
outer solstice
and many ppl do
mellow quartz
If no one stops anything and you pull double caster packs etc on the left in AA it will hurt I agree.
strong forum
But I hate the argument of "but being tankier let's you pull bigger"
That's just wrong
outer solstice
yeah,... it's more like the cleaner you play the bigger you can pull
but being more tanky let's you concentrate more on mechanics
mellow quartz
That's just wrong
Not necessarily and up to a breakpoint
outer solstice
and be a bit more relaxed on your own playstyle
mellow quartz
But completely situational of which packs etc
Most pulls atm are just going to overwhelm the group with mechanics/kicks
If you go to big
strong forum
Si
cobalt seal
but being more tanky let's you concentrate more on mechanics
Hmmm
Im sorry but that only works first days
oblique garnet
Whats this weeks affixes?
cobalt seal
Storm burst
outer solstice
Whats this weeks affixes?
bursting and eh
ebon wren
Ya I can't play monk or DK because the focus is so much on self healing, I miss a lot of mechanics.
cobalt seal
Ya I can't play monk or DK because the focus is so much on self healing, I miss ...
Yeah
Thats why
cobalt seal
outer solstice
Cuz I have no idea wtf I'd do
nah it's because we all only have 2 brain cells
cobalt seal
Its not like ds is in bdk rotation or something
strong forum
I get a heart attack whenever I lose more than 30% of my hp in a global
cobalt seal
So the heal comes almost passively
lusty tiger
Playing undergeared brm yesterday was incredibly monkas
Only lived through because healer was premade
minor sparrow
monk is pretty rough on living rn for sure
opaque vine
I thought they changed it to not be a health %
strong forum
They specifically changed it to be 30% max HP in 9.2
swift urchin
Thanks
strong forum
Prior to that change it was always dependent on cast.
It was 1.3x in bfa
2.0x in SL
And like 6.0x in legion
spring holly
nah it's because we all only have 2 brain cells
This is true, one braincell presses shield slam, another braincell presses thunderclap
agile elbow
Bdk is just reactive really
But if you're not used to reacting quickly probably not the class for you
I'm still trying to decide what I wanna main in DF
cobalt seal
Bdk is just reactive really
agile elbow
Lol
uncut notch
if i invite my friends to soak with me, they get oneshot
agile elbow
Because scaling is fucky
uncut notch
doesnt he just infinitely cast it tho
mortal brook
he mounts back up on a timer
uncut notch
so it literally is just run away
hmm getting hit for like 350k in a 23
so running must be the way
Do I just kite as soon as he casts it?
or is there a trick to it?
mortal brook
agile elbow
^
mortal brook
leap away from your dps
cobalt seal
Bdk is just reactive really
so you press drw after being 40% hp?
sturdy sable
so you press drw after being 40% hp?
To be fair you could make this bad faith argument with all of dks CDs
ocean bloom
It's reactive after you spend your DS every 6 sec and use all your other mitigation cds.
cobalt seal
To be fair you could make this bad faith argument with all of dks CDs
exactly lol
lusty tiger
patent osprey
boys what am i missing RE shared suffering
You def don't want to kite out of it as a DK. If your out of CDs you can warlock gate one/priest grip, but DK is one of the tanks who is really tanky against it
uncut notch
You def don't want to kite out of it as a DK. If your out of CDs you can warlock...
I'm a pwar xD
patent osprey
You really want to have DRW up for the Mortal Strike before the Shared Suffereing, so you parry it
uncut notch
are you in the wrong discord Pika
cobalt seal
pika got confused with the other convo
sweet urchin
does anyone know what the diminishing return values are on secondary stats? like at what value do we start getting dr. sorry if this was asked before, i searched but didnt find the answer to this specific question
agile elbow
I'm just used to playing BDK and waiting for my hp to drop so I can full heal with a DS
patent osprey
Ill show myself out
agile elbow
Lol
cobalt seal
I'm just used to playing BDK and waiting for my hp to drop so I can full heal wi...
you doing 50% dmg
gz
(maybe even less)
lusty tiger
DS is DKβs top ST attack
agile elbow
That was a general overview, not the ONLY thing I'm doing lol
lusty tiger
Well it was at least idk abt dk changes
agile elbow
Drw immortality and extension wasn't fun game play in s4
cobalt seal
That was a general overview, not the ONLY thing I'm doing lol
I can pretty much imagine you playing BDK
by your way of saying it's "only reactive"
lusty tiger
As far as I understand you need to proactively keep 3 runes on CD as well as proactively not cap rp if possible
Like u just waiting to take damage so u can ds?
Iβd fall asleep
strong forum
Nah, rn, you should press DS minimum every 6sec
To keep up bloodshield for damgur
And obv not overcap rp
lusty tiger
Are bdk mastery stacking yet?
proud patrol
does anyone else feel like paper right now? havent logged in this id but i just did a 25 lower kara which would`ve been easy af last week but the key just slapped the shit out of me. I'm charging --> avatar --> sb but within this time frame the mobs just hit me down to 20% hp
strong forum
Base m+ has been buffed by 22%
Key scaling hasn't increased yet
But yeah, getting up SB before mobs hit you is harder now
proud patrol
this is so antifun, the moment you're in the pack you're already fighting so hard just to stay alive
mellow quartz
so troll you have to go through bounding strides to get to bitter immunity
mellow quartz
abt to do a 19 AA, want poison dispel
strong forum
Dorf 
mellow quartz
for some reason everytime I do the tree boss the big add dies at the same time as all the small adds are abt 30% hp so they heal to 100%
cobalt seal
this is so antifun, the moment you're in the pack you're already fighting so har...
Doing your rotation isnt fighting hard
mellow quartz
like either dps it fast before adds spawn or hold off until after lol
strong forum
for some reason everytime I do the tree boss the big add dies at the same time a...
Same
mellow quartz
I need a timer for that puddle to trigger so I can pull them out and leap back in
proud patrol
Doing your rotation isnt fighting hard
thats just not the point - im charging in and all of the sudden on 20% hp, has legit nothing to do with rotation ^^ just sucks to play like that
cobalt seal
Im sorry no
Either you charging without sb
Or there is no way you get to 20% that fast
strong forum
30*
cobalt seal
Or you charging the last mob
strong forum
Avatar + charge is enough, but charge grants it's rage when you finish charging
cobalt seal
And getting hit in the back
proud patrol
im charging in with sb if possible - but if im at 0 rage i have to atleast reach the mob to get sb up with avater running
proud patrol
Avatar + charge is enough, but charge grants it's rage when you finish charging
exactly
and the horses in lower hit me so fucking hard, its was insane
cobalt seal
Thats literally a first pull problem lol
strong forum
At that might just play reprisal
proud patrol
ah true
cobalt seal
You should have rage from the previous pull
proud patrol
im going to do that
ah come on, sure i should
but people die
and stuff happens π
cant always chain
proud patrol
its ok, you get used to it - but it was a huge suprise for me, last week i played +27 without a problem and just now, a +25 was feeling harder than anything else ^^
proud patrol
yea but i also played +27 on fort before^^ the 20% on top were just not that amazing
strong forum
In my runs I've had 90% blocked hits, most of the unblocked hits stemmed from gathering pulls without SB up or getting hit in the back
Instigate prolly still better in St but bloodsurge is alot more attractive again
Will have to look into it
pallid quiver
My discord starting me at a random spot, and I saw someone say "If they say you're doing no damage they're telling the truth"
can confirm that's a lie
I've had people complain I'm doing no damage when I'm topping the DPS charts
i don't know how people manage to see that
but it happens
mellow quartz
when you die 7 times in a row on the tree boss and each time to a new reason......
pallid quiver
I don't know the tree boss I'm going into next xpac blind I don't know what we're talking about ;-;
mellow quartz
its the boss where everyone single 'wow moments' on youtube is from
where they do big aoe
well that is usually the pull before, but that area
tender cove
For the whole d-stance/b-stance deal (which i think in itself is sorta pointless, the concept hasn't really changed since, what, vanilla?)... I'm more curious... What does blizzard balance pwarr around?
has to be dstance right? They can't go like "ohh, lets balance the entire pwarr population by what the tiny minmax mindset people are doing"??
pallid quiver
nobody knows. we can only guess what lies inside the minds of the balance team
strong forum
Can only guess
tender cove
The intuitive and logic thing, that 90% of people will go for and think is this "I'm a tank, ofc i will be in defensive stance" and not even consider being in bstance for the dps. And some will realize you can switch on a situational basis but the default? It will always be dstance and to think otherwise is kinda ludacris.
knotty idol
I picked up pwar in pre season and was sat in dstance until I joined this server lol
tender cove
I was just making a macro for stances. Why does pressing the macro twice remove any stance selection? Never seen that before. It just cancelauras it, without having a cancelaura macro?
Not a big thing, but if you press the macro fast, it will remove both stances. Huh?
Are you even supposed to be able to be without a stance?
wind oak
and it is why there is a macro stance in the pin
tender cove
and it is why there is a macro stance in the pin
I cant say why but its like the pins never exist for me, in an endless loop. Until someone mentions it.
Still, its not a complicated macro, shouldn't remove one for just /cast stance
slim zinc
The intuitive and logic thing, that 90% of people will go for and think is this ...
But the remaining 10% are the ones that will be doing damage π
placid vale
Guys, is there a way to have 100% uptime on SB in DF?
slim zinc
Also in vanilla threat was bound to def stance
strong forum
Guys, is there a way to have 100% uptime on SB in DF?
All of my pinned builds
All 8 of them
placid vale
But is there any rotation I need to keep using for it?
tender cove
But the remaining 10% are the ones that will be doing damage π
I'm not making an argument against minmax, I actually think its great stances and the option exists. I also think its would be insanely bad for pwarr's to be balanced around it. Its not intuitive and it shouldn't feel or be forced as the default play. Its just inherently wrong.
strong forum
Okay well, the lvl 60 builds have like 96%
strong forum
But is there any rotation I need to keep using for it?
Just try to use SS on CD and you be there
Pwar has gotten immensely easy
placid vale
Ok, ty
slim zinc
I'm not making an argument against minmax, I actually think its great stances an...
Problem is that if they balance damage around def stance they have to either do less damage than all other tanks or they will do more than the rest outside of it
pallid quiver
i prefer them to simply tune our damage around defense stance so i get to do more damage
slim zinc
You need to balance around both which is a pain in itself
strong forum
If they do that, then the good pwars will heavily out dmg everyone
Cuz just being in b-stance is +14% dmg
That's insane
pallid quiver
No it's good and exactly what we need π
tender cove
Problem is that if they balance damage around def stance they have to either do ...
I think it would be an ok tradeoff to be balanced around dstance and have the minmax people allowed to excel outside it. It has a very sharp and defenitive tradeoff. 20% perma dr isn't exactly small.
tender cove
Then thats an issue with class design and sadly, we should be nerfed in other areas.
slim zinc
It's a tough balance to make π
Either make it tanky enough that it's too good to not use
tender cove
Either make it tanky enough that it's too good to not use
Yeh, i agree, its a shitshow in that regard.
slim zinc
Or make it too weak
Right now its pretty spot on being an on demand defensive
I wish DH could have a free 20% dr available at all times
strong forum
Toggoru
tender cove
Right now its pretty spot on being an on demand defensive
The more I think about it. The more stupid it becomes lol...
I'm getting sorta speechless because its just..stupid...
We talk about balancing dps correctly but in the same breath its ok for us not being balanced around a perma 20% dr?
yeh...its just...so stupid.
stark hinge
Anyone running Bolster & Into the fray instead of Heavy Repercussions? I want to try out the bolster talent and see if its better
knotty idol
I'm probably gonna go for bolster itf because getting extra haste early on will feel smooth hopefully
slim zinc
The more I think about it. The more stupid it becomes lol...
I'm getting sorta s...
It's kinda hilarious because pwar is like the class most prone to just not care about the dr atm
strong forum
Anyone running Bolster & Into the fray instead of Heavy Repercussions? I want to...
It's a valid build, but weaker on ST
slim zinc
So many situations when a pwar can need less external healing than almost any other tank while in battle stance
strong forum
I've pinned and hr build and an itf+bolster build each
slim zinc
I'm just thinking back to mutilate in fort 28 NW doing 3k damage to a warrior
cobalt seal
And that was before dstance
strong forum
Just block lol
slim zinc
Tbf that was before when dstance was mostly baked into vanguard
In bstance it would have done 4k
cobalt seal
Unplayable
strong forum
Block has gotten 30-45% stronger from SL to DF , and then you still have people think mastery has gotten better
When in reality it's gotten worse
slim zinc
Devalues crit block since you already mostly hit block cap
strong forum
With just talents I go from 33 to 50% block dmg reduction on target dummy π
small impact
With a 384 ilvl shield btw
slim zinc
And that increases in keys where k-value is lower π
strong forum
Max ilvl shield is 424
knotty idol
Maybe dumb question but what actually determines how much damage you reduce when you block?
strong forum
Shield block value
slim zinc
The block value on shield and the content you do
slim zinc
Basically all content has a hidden constant we call the K-value
It is to make sure things like armor and block isn't a linear % reduction increase
If k is 10k and your shield has 5k block then you block 5k/(5k+10k) = 33%
K scales with raid difficulty and m+ has lower k than lfr
So block etc is extra strong in m+
mellow quartz
All of my pinned builds
technically the ITF builds doesn't depending on haste values and fight length π
tender cove
Basically all content has a hidden constant we call the K-value
Interesting stuff. Thanks π
strong forum
In a way it does cuz the more haste you have, the better itf gets
If you have low haste, it's worse
slim zinc
Yes and no, kinda
mellow quartz
that was my point kinda
slim zinc
It's always 10% more globals
mellow quartz
low haste gives more gabs without HR
at 35% haste started to get gabs at 3m 45s fight duration and bigger gabs at 5min 45s
at 25% it was before 2min and around 3.5 again
slim zinc
Yeah that's related to SB uptime is double dipping on Haste
strong forum
It's always 10% more globals
Assuming 5 stacks
That's the kick
HR doesnt care about target count
slim zinc
Yeah
mellow quartz
I really started noticing it yesterday doing tyrannical bosses and all of a sudden I started having SB gabs
was getting slapped a bit
strong forum
1 heal I beg 
stark hinge
Thanks for the feedback!
knotty idol
I am kinda confused by the talent Brace for impact it says it increases the amount of damage block by 5% stacking 5 times but at 5 stacks I'm only gaining around 6% more damage blocked
knotty idol
Ah okay so mainly it's just more shield slam dmg?
strong forum
And it's from say 53 to 59%
That's over 10% effective gain
It's not 53+5+5+5+5+5
And you already have a +30% gain from shield specilisation
It's still a massively powerful talent if you take punish ontop of that into account
On average you have 9% DR from punish on the main target
slim zinc
If you have 30% gaining 25% would put you at 36% even without dr as well
knotty idol
I assume punish is full effect because it's an effect on an enemy so it sort of scales additive?
slim zinc
Should be additive yh
knotty idol
Years of playing poe and layering defensives has prepared me for this moment lmao
knotty idol
Yeah seems kinda insane why would we ever swap to jugg?
strong forum
Never
Execute is too weak
But the point is, lots of people opt to drop punish in favour of aoe dps
But I don't feel comfortable losing 3% St dps and 9%DR for 1.5% aoe dps
knotty idol
What would you pick up instead of punish for aoe anyways?
knotty idol
Maybe we cope and hope by the end of the expansion we have so much haste our dots are insane 
strong forum
While that idea is true
I don't like the premise of losing punish
Seems kinda scuffed
knotty idol
Yeah and by end of expansion our shield slam will be hitting like a truck so 10% dam will be nice regardless
strong forum
SS is already over 30% of our ST damage
quartz kettle
Any must-have/really good WAs for tanking keys? Always played keys from DPS PoV and want to tank them for a change.
knotty idol
Kick tracker
strong forum
Most important one is an SB buff tracker
quartz kettle
I have that one as a DPS already since my ape friends need to know when to kick
cobalt seal
Most important one is an SB buff tracker
But you only sb when you need it
strong forum
:kappa:
quartz kettle
Most important one is an SB buff tracker
To make sure I donβt drop stacks?
stark hinge
Last question, do yβall spec swap to single dps build before a boss?
cobalt seal
To make sure you dont die
cobalt seal
Last question, do yβall spec swap to single dps build before a boss?
In raid?
Yes
M+ you cant
stark hinge
Ahh gotcha.
mellow quartz
If you fight a pack without IP active it feels like someone is throwing stones at you. If you do it without SB active itβs like they are firing a cannon at you.
quartz kettle
Oh should Glock was thinking of bash (too much wrath)
stark hinge
Thanks @cobalt seal
quartz kettle
Block
mellow quartz
Look up a bit at the screenshot I posted of damage taken with and without SB up.
Abt 3x more
quartz kettle
Look up a bit at the screenshot I posted of damage taken with and without SB up.
SB should be up every pull right
mellow quartz
Should be up 100% of the time ideally
south osprey
If you fight a pack without IP active it feels like someone is throwing stones a...
"IP"?
cobalt seal
SB should be up every pull right
Everytime
mellow quartz
Ignore pain
knotty idol
I'm hyped to hit 70 we get so many goodies π€€ shield charge is so fun
mellow quartz
Tbh roar is the best button
Like tree boss in AA. Roar first set of adds, mass taunt 2nd and prey you donβt get a third.
knotty idol
That will be fun on tyran 
quartz kettle
How do you guys track threat on big pulls? Like seeing if@one of the mobs is about to drop from you and hit a dps
strong forum
^
knotty idol
Does anyone have a good spell reflect wa? Ik I should just get good and watch every mob cast but I kinda just want something that pops up and tells me when to reflect the dangerous cast
I tried one before but it was spammig me with every bolt cast
pulsar sedge
Eh, think of it less as a defelect and more as a DR
south osprey
Hello - Can anyone recommend a good externals WA? I'm not a fan of the one on ERT
pulsar sedge
I use luxthos package.
south osprey
Yeah I use Afenar. I was looking for something a bit more separate
like something i can place away from my WAs so I know what externals are up 24/7
All i've found is this: https://wago.io/-jC2P_4gF
pulsar sedge
Do you mean externals on YOU or YOUR cooldowns?
south osprey
no externals e,g PS, Ironbark, Sac....
pulsar sedge
Hmm, i dont know about WA's on that, but there are a few addons that keep track of it. Let me look
quartz kettle
i use that weakaura
quartz kettle
All i've found is this: https://wago.io/-jC2P_4gF
works good
pulsar sedge
OmniCD, but i dont think it says who its cast on
south osprey
the addons are messy imo, a WA is alot easier to track
pulsar sedge
True true
quartz kettle
is there a website that loads a mythic dungeon route? want it on my 2nd monitor while i go through a key
south osprey
they serve the purpose ofc, but its not nice on the eyes
quartz kettle
https://raider.io/news?tag=weekly-route
south osprey
who even plays pvp
quartz kettle
handful of us degens who can't get off it
queen oyster
should we pretty much always be specced into defensive stance?
sudden palm
You should pretty much never been in def stance unless you really need it; is what I've been hearin
quartz kettle
You should pretty much never been in def stance unless you really need it; is wh...
the DR won't be valuable over the 3% crit at higher key levels ?
slim dove
the DR won't be valuable over the 3% crit at higher key levels ?
its the -10% dmg
if you dont need 20% dr to live, may aswell do 10% more dmg + 3% crit
quartz kettle
I see
ebon wren
play how you want, what's important is you succeed. There's no right answer. If you find yourself taking too much damage go defensive.
south osprey
Does anyone have any tips for placing world markers down, without manually clicking the default ui?
pulsar sedge
OPie addon
violet violet
or make macros. /wm 1
mighty valley
i like making a hidden bar and putting all the macros hotkeyed on it
so like, F1-F8 are
/wm [@cursor] 1
through 8
hazy bronze
I think ERT allows hot keys
warm plinth
I don't think oPie is working with world markers anyway last I heard?
I don't use it for world markers but a friend of mine said that it wasn't working for world markers
south osprey
Didn't work for me when I tried it. I found the above video, check description. But the macro didn't work for me
ornate thunder
dusk hinge
I don't use it for world markers but a friend of mine said that it wasn't workin...
I am using it and it is working for world markers
warm plinth
I am using it and it is working for world markers
That's good news. Must have fixed it 
Thanks for the correction
dusk hinge
guys I was testing pwar in a few 10s today and im a bit struggling with keeping aggro. I love how tanky pwar feels if you play it correctly or rather if you manage to keep up SB and IP! already feels more tanky than my gdruid that has 20gs more ^^
my problem is when I jump into a pack and use TC and then the dps players use their abilities I'm losing aggro and cant get it back until TC is up again, its only like 1-2seconds of no aggro but I dont want dps players to be scared on every pull
maybe if I have rage left from last pull I can use revenge but If I dont im just sitting there watching my dps getting slapped, what can I do about that?
slim dove
spear, ravage, aoe taunt, avatar, be 0.5 seconds ahead of your dps
dusk hinge
ye thats the thing, if I have anything else up its np like shield charge avatar roar or something like that but there are like 2 or maybe 3 pulls per key where I jave nothing anymore and I didnt knew if I was just doing something wrong with aggro
especially on 6+ pulls where I cant rend everything on my.first TC
outer solstice
guys I was testing pwar in a few 10s today and im a bit struggling with keeping ...
how do you "jump" into a pack?
try charging instead of leaping
that gives you the rage you need for the revenge you want to hit after the TC
also you can actually do a heroic or titanic throw (if talented) during the charge
dusk hinge
hmm I was mostly jumping into the pack to already hit everything with the aoe
outer solstice
try charging π
charge, with SB, then TC then revenge
shockwave if you want and other CDs as you see fit
also if you feel tanky, you might want to give battle stance some use
dusk hinge
yes as im getting more and more comfy with pwar im mainly in bstance now
outer solstice
obviously shield slam as well on the primary target π
yeah we had a big discussion on what stance should be considered the default
if you default to battle stance you can use d stance as a defensive CD π if you default to D stance you can use Bstance as an offensive CD π
but yeah the big tip I can give you to charge into packs
dusk hinge
how much rage does that grant
dusk hinge
hmm I guess im not charging enough
junior timber
youll have shield charge in dragon flight in most builds coupled with thunderous words is an amazing opener and smooths your opening mitigation
outer solstice
as reprisal is gone in DF that's not so big
outer solstice
youll have shield charge in dragon flight in most builds coupled with thunderous...
yeah but still, you can charge and use shield charge durign the charge π
outer solstice
but yeah keep in mind charge is off GCD
so you can use another ability with it, like shield charge or heroic throw ^^
dusk hinge
isnt shield charge also off gcd ? except when you are not doong the charge part of the skill ?
outer solstice
haha yeah I think so xD right
anyway, charging or shield charging is better than leaping as an opener
pulsar sedge
Spear while you charge, then TC when you get into the pack
west snow
Iirc they put SCharge on GCD now
warm plinth
It's only on GCD if you use it while in melee range
If you use it to charge in/move, it's off-GCD
eternal turtle
can you loot emp demo or nightmare blade if your loot spec is fury/prot?
warm plinth
Fury = 1h/2h str
Prot = 1h str/shield
Arms = 2h str
pulsar sedge
tldr, yes. In prot/fury ;D
finite narwhal
was little bored so I tried evoker healing, joined +15 karazhan and I was thinking that I suck at tank healing a lot. After run I opened buff uptime π
warm plinth
14.4% uptime, yuge
pulsar sedge
oof
warm plinth
what is the man even pressing lol
warm plinth
does he just sit at max rage
dusk hinge
maybe he did a macro to SR whenever he uses tc or something so he uses it on cd x)
have you timed it ? xD
finite narwhal
It was very sweaty key for me π
but tbh, I thought I just suck at evoker healing, didnt check his uptime while at key haha
pulsar sedge
He has almost double uptime on IP over SB.. Probably just spamming IP tbh
finite narwhal
we timed it
dusk hinge
are we not trying to maintain high IP ?
finite narwhal
19 casts IP
timid wigeon
guys I was testing pwar in a few 10s today and im a bit struggling with keeping ...
open with "banner (if you don't have it up already) - charge -> talented avatar -> shield block/shield slam -> clap" in 5-6 mobs pulls it should be enough unless you have mega bursty dps, In mass pulls, get ready to mass taunt. Once you avatar clap the mobs and the mobs hit you for few hits, then "tough as nails" will make them stick to you forever
dusk hinge
im trying hard to have both SB and IP up all the time
pulsar sedge
SB is infinitely more important than IP if you had to pick 1 or the other.. but you should be able to have them both rolling
finite narwhal
I mean I was suspicios what wrong when he got chunked by 80% hp on trash mob before medivh. I never got dmged as my prot war here
timid wigeon
im trying hard to have both SB and IP up all the time
it's really easy to maintain SB and IP when you have enough haste
SB is super easy to maintain even without haste though
dusk hinge
ye im doing fine on that I was just thinking that you maybe IP only after you drop a bit and rather use the rage for dps
pulsar sedge
Its either IP dump when you are getting smashed, or use it on revenge. All we really have for choices ;D
dusk hinge
but I guess I wasnt wrong trying to maintain both before using rage on revenge if threat allows me to
timid wigeon
in my opinion, IP is super important rn, because 30% of your dmg is transferred into active IP, so you lose 30% leech if you don't have IP up
oblique garnet
With prepatch and the seasonal affix we end up with high levels of haste that we wont have in df
So the playstyle will change a bit
pulsar sedge
Kinda like guardian running around with no ironfurs up
True. But reprisal into SB charges makes it pretty easy even with ok haste. And DF we will get shield charge-->champs bulwark to gain reprisal back
timid wigeon
no really, but you also die super fast without IP
oblique garnet
Huh
dusk hinge
I guess I have to play a bit more pwar, was gdruid before and if shit hits the fan and my threat is dropping I could just spam swipe for ez threat and as pwar I dont have a 0 cost 0 cd aoe button
slim dove
yeah its slightly higher skill floor than guardian lol
pulsar sedge
You have challenging shout and in DF you will get roar and ravager
timid wigeon
I think pwar skills rn is to the way you maintain IP, not let it be overcapped nor down
dusk hinge
ye I guess having roar and ravager will change everything, what was ravager cd ?
pulsar sedge
roar and ravager are 1.5 each. So you can just cycle them on pulls
dusk hinge
dont you want to use everything during avatar ?
dusk hinge
yes and avatar is 1.5 too or not ? so avatar roar and ravager always togheter
slim dove
avatar gets reduced by spending rage.
pulsar sedge
I mean sure.. Except if you are having threat issues? Dumping your load every 1.5min doesnt sound very smart
You arent a dps
dusk hinge
tanking in 2k22 feels like playing dps tbh
xD
well I will keep spamming keys as pwar maybe I somehow fix my threat issue but ty guys
dusk hinge
will try to charge more
urban portal
they buff tank threat on a monthly basis
dusk hinge
yes I know that im playing something wrong
pulsar sedge
You using TC every other global during avatar?
naive sinew
Maybe stance?
timid wigeon
You using TC every other global during avatar?
you don't want to Tclap when you have banner, unless you need snap threat or 360 degree threat
pulsar sedge
I mean sure.. If you are necro
timid wigeon
necro is too strong to pick any other
naive sinew
I was having threat issues in defensive stance but it went away in battle stance
timid wigeon
just spend the rage on IP instead
not ideally I think, revenge reset shield slam, and shield slam is the main rage generator rn
unless in mass pulls where you can generate more rage than you can spend
urban portal
so does tc
timid wigeon
then yes
urban portal
tc and revenge both resets
the main problem with TC in SL was that it hit like a wet noodle, and it didnt interact with anything
now we have thunderlord
warm plinth
the main problem with TC in SL was that it hit like a wet noodle, and it didnt i...
your mom hits like a wet noodle
GOTTEM
urban portal
shiet
polar field
Do warriors still have the party spell reflect
warm plinth
That's a PvP talent iirc
polar field
Wasnβt there something in the new talents for that?
dusk hinge
You using TC every other global during avatar?
doing what wowhead saya, SS highest prio then TC for dps so yes if SS is on CD TC eill be used every other gcd
warm plinth
I don't think so but I could be wrong
polar field
I donβt play warrior much
dusk hinge
Maybe stance?
bstance
dusk hinge
especially if you have thunderlord/booming voice
im playing with shield charge right now cuz no.leggo but I will try booming voice tomorrow
dusk hinge
the main problem with TC in SL was that it hit like a wet noodle, and it didnt i...
I love that TC applies rend too now
but for sure im dropping my all time favourite gdruid tank for pwar in DF, fuck bears im tired of em
elder bay
mellow quartz
The tuning on the last guy in COS is nutty. The aoe with 4 images up is 25k per image plus 12k from the boss itself so abt 112k damage per tick per group member on a 17 Tyrβ¦.
toxic gyro
That boss was always slapping hard
mellow quartz
Itβs just not really equivalent to most of the other seasons bosses.
toxic gyro
I havenβt played beta but 2 bosses in HoV used to be even worse than last boss in cos
toxic gyro
They will probably tune cos boss as well
quartz kettle
Best Race for key? DI?
knotty idol
Tauren is always best race
radiant magnet
yo wtf they killed 5% movespeed gem
flat 5% would translate into 250 speed rating in DF
bit much compared to DF gems
noble lynx
spell block is so broken
jagged pier
Best Race for key? DI?
If u really care that much DID for alliance vulp for horde
jagged pier
The tuning on the last guy in COS is nutty. The aoe with 4 images up is 25k per ...
Sounds about correct from what it was back in legion tbf
He trucked
Also a reason why party SW would be busted
noble lynx
in legion 2nd boss was also spooky right?
tender cove
@strong forum I just have to tell you something bro... I haven't really been playing past month so I dont burn out... But been using your WA since beta and today I noticed what is probably the most useful and thought out thing I have ever seen in a WA...
Not only do you announce casting SR... You actually built in a tracker for what it reflects, what mobs and how much... It's just...its beautiful bro, holy fucking shit... wow.. Chefs kiss to you...damn π
jagged pier
If u didnt move out of the fire or inturpt the correct cast yes
noble lynx
If u didnt move out of the fire or inturpt the correct cast yes
no like i think something was ramping on that boss as well
jagged pier
I think it was only the boss cast if not inturpted but cant be sure was a long time ago
radiant magnet
no like i think something was ramping on that boss as well
each Slicing Malstrom gets a stacking +50% up to 3 stacks
noble lynx
i know but im talking about the 2nd boss
radiant magnet
been a while for COS, but 2nd boss does have a stacking dot
actually on her, so stacking buff I guess but does AOE dmg around her. longer the fight, worse it gets
noble lynx
they loved the ramping dungeon bosses in legion
radiant magnet
it's like every 30s she gets a stack. every missed interrupt she gets a stack.
tender cove
What is the prio for aoe? And at what target cap? Only press SS if i'm low enough on rage so I cant revenge? And tclap on cd?
Ignore shield block and everything else. I just want the dmg breakdown, thanks.
tender cove
why ss above rev? And what target cap? 3? 5? 10?
tender cove
During say avatar, there really isn't any room for SS unless I dont have rage to revenge. So still keep that prio? Why?
pulsar sedge
during avatar you use TC on every other global
SO if SS resets, use it again after TC. If not, use revenge
tender cove
is it only for anger management and reducing avatar? I need to understand the logic of using an ST spell on say 10 targets instead of rev.
pulsar sedge
SS TC SS TC REVENGE TC SS TC SS TC ect ect
You have a ton of talents that revolve around SS. Its not really about it being a ST over an aoe skill
During avatar the CD on TC is reduced by 50% is why you can fit it every other global
Moar claps, more rage, more to spend
tender cove
Ok. Let me try and rephrase it. In a vacuum, ignoring everything else. Is max dps ignoring SS unless i'm low enough on rage that I can't cast revenge.
Or will prioritizing SS (as above) still come out as more dps. And if thats the case, why?
pulsar sedge
Eh... You cant really put tanks into that kind of a prio list really.. Your main focus isnt really "top dps"
tender cove
But thats my question.
mellow quartz
if you have enough mobs that bloodsurge and TC can carry your rage gen then TC and revenge all the way
tender cove
if you have enough mobs that bloodsurge and TC can carry your rage gen then TC a...
Thank you.
mellow quartz
for overall
if you just have padding adds and a prior target then SS and TC
also assumed you dont drop SB by not using SS
tender cove
Ok cool. I know im bit late to the party but i'll catch up soon enough. Sometimes you wanna just ignore the "right way" to squeeze out a bit more because its a safe judgement call.
tender cove
It was good info glow π
radiant magnet
maybe but mixing convos = confusion
just got into some wine I made, bit drunk tbh
tender cove
Fair enough. Im just running uldaman a bit for fun and practicing my muscle memory on a new mmo mouse (never had one before) and the 6 buttons i decided to go for is making my head spin and hurt man xD
It will be amazing once I get it comfortable though but holy shit the fat fingering xD
pulsar sedge
As long as you arent trying to use ww, you will be fine ;D
tender cove
haha, okok, fair enough π
radiant magnet
only WW if Nom is in your group
pulsar sedge
Keep up SB and keep threat. And try not to give your healer a heart attack
tender cove
Its pretty fun, if I get an evoker? Its shitshow. If i get a normal healer? I can pull the entire dungeon
pulsar sedge
Lol most just dont know how to use them yet
tender cove
I know and most of them are pretty chill about it too and just laugh. Soloed the 2nd boss from 30% hp cuz everyone died except me π
They seem to really struggle on group healing
pulsar sedge
keep in mind, lots of mobs in there cast a dot on people that stacks.. So if you are mass pulling.. They probably have 20ish stacks lol
tender cove
ohhh, that would explain it xD
pulsar sedge
kek
slim dove
Just the timereavers at the end get nasty
tender cove
yeye, i just go from boss to boss. Im trying to take dmg so I can well, see how it feels
mighty valley
slammed through the normal raids to get a friend a slimecat and kept getting 99 parses
where's the one sicko who's tryharding normal mode parses
lusty tiger
do we proc leech from indomitable healing?
cinder nova
Any ideal leveling specs? I don't think it's probably necessary, but sweat is always a good time.
pulsar sedge
Honestly, i'd just use the M+ builds and aoe pull the world while leveling ;D
slim dove
^
pulsar sedge
Make a game out of how much shit can i pull before i have to use cds ;D
"kill 10 mobs" nah ... i see an easy 30. game on
slim dove
Outside of getting CCed at very bad times, really there isn't a limit.
mighty valley
Don't think I'd change much from standard other than like... maybe shockwave endcaps is the way for aoe burst
Can definitely take massacre instead of shield block uptime
Although execute isn't even that hot right now
cinder nova
Yeah, honestly kinda sad about how dookie Exe feels now
I liked how massive it felt.
8K executes make my shield soft
slim dove
all about those outbursted SS crits now
cinder nova
Less exciting.
Although I do somewhat like that TC doesn't feel like a dead button, still not that exciting to press though.
mighty valley
UF in big pulls where you just get to press TC/Rev forever are pretty good, and we won't get that Sylvanas feeling where our big shit damage phase doesn't exist
But Jailer p3 was so juicy
cinder nova
I wills say UF+Ava+Outburst+SoF TC on a fat stack of mobs.
That's HUGE.
Seeing dozens and dozens of huge 11K-19K crits is spicy
sand pebble
Anyone having issues with zul shadowclaws chunking
It did more damage than bursting did over an entire 15 gambit
sand pebble
Ill have to check logs on it, felt weird the entire run never in danger and zul killed me
Was doing 27k per hit
Every second
mighty valley
the dot is very bad if it gets up to 4+ stacks but the healer should be dispelling it basically on CD
sand pebble
And yes i reflected shield wall and dwarf racial it off
mighty valley
using spell reflect for a shadowclaws hit is a lot more important than using it on blood siphon
sand pebble
First key ive done this week
mighty valley
my best guess is the healer legit didn't know about it
assuming this was a pug and not a healer you know and trust
sand pebble
Guild group
Healer is ok but it might have been the 2 undergeared mages we were carrying not dealing with bats, ignoring fish sticks etc
mighty valley
maybe just stretched thin and didn't notice you were getting stacked up
sand pebble
I only ask because i dont recall shadow claws ever hitting that hard
warm plinth
yeah definitely sounds like you just weren't dispelled
it stacks up so no dispel means you're gonna get chunked
mighty valley
yeah obviously you can use your own DRs but it's mostly the healer's job
azure ivy
@sand pebble I was feeling it too. In a 15 gambit earlier. Didnβt expect to have to use so many defensives just to live through it
mighty valley
i haven't actually done any keys this week so it's possible there's some new weirdness, all my comments are based on ~20s ish from a week or two ago
limpid kite
The dungeons scale like in df instead the sl ones
sand pebble
Yep first key this week made ne come ask because its def worse than last week
limpid kite
15 feels like 17-18 before
sand pebble
Like to the point ill be skipping them all
limpid kite
And 20 feels 23
sand pebble
The rest of the dung was fine, it was only zul felt like a 25
tranquil drift
I never tanked before and want to get into it, how do i start? i dont know any of the current m+ dungeons so i dont know where to start. should I learn the routes as dps before starting to tank?
lyric lintel
Hello, is it just me or the m+ scale is rly hard, just tried a 25 lowr And felt rly unsafe.. i think i used twice more IP than ever before β¦
sand pebble
I never tanked before and want to get into it, how do i start? i dont know any o...
Start in normals or heorics and get a feel for it, understand things like los - your job is mob control at first
Then jump into m2 and understand the basics of mobs and bosses having additional spells or mechanics
As keys grow higher yiu need to understand all affixes and how to pull to cater for your dps
tranquil drift
got it. will the affixes change for df?
sand pebble
Not all, new seasonal affix and i think necrotic is leaving
This week bursting will kill you with overgeared dps in a low key because they just look at dps number and not bursting stack size
oak echo
necrotic and inspiring gone, nothing new replacing them so a shorter overall affix rotation. otherwise yeah just the seasonal is new
odd coral
any good up to date guide on prot?
mortal brook
wowhead updated for prepatch, check pins as well
warm plinth
brittle owl
lmao what a fucking nerd
warm plinth
lmao what a fucking nerd
thanks bb
tropic parcel
I mean I have one of each class at 60...this seems..... Intense
warm plinth
I still have three 50s that I didn't have to level too π
manic scaffold
hows prots survivability?
mortal brook
large
manic scaffold
i played a bit of prot during nathria but swapped to blood dk basically for the entire expansion. I was just curious on how well i can survive on my own if my healer is butt
tropic parcel
<a:LETSGOOO:770741530805796874>
The arms warrior and brm are my favorites lol
warm plinth
lol, thanks
warm plinth
you can't escape me, fighting game references
Hey he's a nightborne; he has long ass arms
pallid quiver
not long enough to dodge the long claw of the nerf hammer
man hasn't been allowed to be good in a long while
warm plinth
lol
jovial wedge
do you generally use BS by default and only change to DS when there's trouble?
lone eagle
is BV fixed btw this week?
slim zinc
do you generally use BS by default and only change to DS when there's trouble?
There's basically two trains of thought on this.
View Bstance as an offensive cooldown an dstance as the baseline.
Or view dstance as a defensive cooldown and bstance as the baseline.
Both are fine, I'm of the opinion that if you want to improve the latter is the better option
lone eagle
I will add that it's definitely contextual as well
I think you're kind of trolling if you aren't starting in dstance in bleeding edge keys when gathering a pull and then swapping once things are stabilized and grouped
but in 15s you can totally do whatever
slim zinc
Sure but that's the nuance to it, when gathering you want the defensive, so you use it as a defensive
sand pebble
worked out why i got chunked by shadowclaws earlier
healer got mc'd and i took 4 stacks then a waterbolt that wasnt interupted
sand pebble
explains it all
mighty valley
literally any cc will prevent the hypnobat
sand pebble
slim zinc
but in 15s you can totally do whatever
Like 99% of all players are gonna be doing keys where you literally never have to be in dstance, so saying it should be the baseline is also basically saying you should keep the training wheels on forever when learning to ride a bike. Like for some that don't care it's whatever, but people looking to learn and improve starting in bstance will likely expedite the process
tulip kelp
Can you quest/level as Prot easy enough or is it a pain?
mighty valley
it's fine
you'll be slow unless you get into the habit of pulling big
but you get instant dungeon queues and can absolutely never die
jovial wedge
I think you're kind of trolling if you aren't starting in dstance in bleeding ed...
thanks, this is very insightful really!
zenith vale
you'll be slow unless you get into the habit of pulling big
Tbh itβs not even slow
Prot dmg are massive atm
on par with fury and more than arms
lone eagle
Like 99% of all players are gonna be doing keys where you literally never have t...
I agree, I'm just saying that there's no particular reason to not be in d-stance when setting up a pull
urban portal
defnitely better than arms
lone eagle
That's a routine, constant situation in which it is a reasonable consideration
urban portal
in terms of questing dps
and i also think you can def sit in dstance while gathing up mobs
and then flip over afterwards
a couple tc and rend ticks in dstance isnt the end of the world
raven hatch
healer got mc'd and i took 4 stacks then a waterbolt that wasnt interupted
honestly zulga in gambit is kinda yikes, waterbolters and a scalebinder in that pack if I remember correctly
especially on fortified
mighty grail
Ahhh! The struggle to choose between pwarrior and bDK is strong π₯Ά
raven hatch
i've heard bdk is super fun, not touched mine since pre-patch
sand pebble
honestly zulga in gambit is kinda yikes, waterbolters and a scalebinder in that ...
yeah it was a 15 i wasnt expecting it to go that bad tbh - rest of t he dung health didnt drop at all
raven hatch
oh, i mean yeah by all means on a 15! π¦
I'm Dark Iron, so its always nice having a dispel ready for when something goes wrong on zulga pull or dog on workshop ^^
sand pebble
i used sr, dwarf racial and shield wall - would have been fine but we were carring 2 mages
raven hatch
fair
sand pebble
like hard carries rofl
raven hatch
^^
onyx matrix
Prot warr pvp in df? Does it work?π
urban portal
Imagine blizz allowing tanks to PvP
warm plinth
@ionic fern 38/38 also hi ily
onyx matrix
<@238357283996696576> <a:LETSGOOO:770741530805796874> 38/38 also hi ily
Muhahaha!
shy python
The Sylvanas mount and the prot skill both are called "Rache" in german so of you write a macro for the skill the game always wants to summon the mount insread. Using spell IDs doesn't work.
Anyone knows a solucion for this problem?
warm plinth
The Sylvanas mount and the prot skill both are called "Rache" in german so of yo...
Have you tried opening the spellbook to that page, clicking in the macro field, and shift-clicking the spell?
I know some things like the troll racial have that issue but it has like a flair in parentheses for the fact that it's a racial spell
Alternatively you might be able to use a version of the covenant spell macro for it
sharp night
The Sylvanas mount and the prot skill both are called "Rache" in german so of yo...
/cast in your macro instead of /use
this is the nuance between them
ionic roost
Or spell id
sharp night
you can't use spellid in macro as it's a protected function
stray knoll
Are we expecting to be nerfed into dragonflight s1 or should we pursue prot warr and feel safe?
shy python
/cast in your macro instead of /use
Sounded like this didn't work either.
/cast [nomod] Rache; [mod:shift] Letztes Gefecht
This doesn't work
sharp night
it still tries to cast mount?
shy python
Yes
cold zealot
Cant you just use the English names also?
sharp night
does shift click from spellbook make the same name
shy python
Cant you just use the English names also?
Only with english Client.
shy python
does shift click from spellbook make the same name
Yes. No difference.
sharp night
hm maybe a bug if they set mount to be considered a spell too
tender cove
There's basically two trains of thought on this.
View Bstance as an offensive co...
I've heard this argument a few times now but i dont really get it. Why would you improve more with either stance? Because the content hurts more?
But you dont play differently so why would a stressful, hectic environment teach you more? It's the opposite of how I learn. I learn in braindead content where I can actually think about what I'm doing and perfect muscle memory.
slim zinc
I've heard this argument a few times now but i dont really get it. Why would you...
Because ultimately, if you want to improve, you need to figure out which mechanics hurt and which don't. Braindead content is good for learning how to play your rotation if you are practising it sure, but nothing hurts, so you won't learn what you need to eventually learn to use defensives for either way. Using battle stance primarily lets you reach this point earlier rather than later, that's basically the only difference
cobalt seal
Simple stuff. People usually improve on failure or harder stuff yo make it easier
slim zinc
Only really matters if you're actively trying to improve though, most people are content just playing which is also fine
tender cove
Because ultimately, if you want to improve, you need to figure out which mechani...
Ohh. Fair enough. I think one falls under learning your class and one is mastering the dungeon. Bit same same but different.
cobalt seal
Both are the same
slim zinc
Nah
Mastering the dungeons is far more important for pushing
You can get by with mediocre class play if you've mastered the dungeons, even in 30s and higher
pallid quiver
"mediocre" is that what we're calling those prot warriors attempts during SL season 4 now?
slim zinc
Depends on what you mark as baseline
tender cove
Only really matters if you're actively trying to improve though, most people are...
I think most people that are here are trying todo just that. Thats why im asking questions all the time. Its often easy to fall in to the trap of being inside my own bubble and thinking "I know best" but thats rarely the case if looking back at my own history π
pallid quiver
Last I saw in here everyone was listing "bad"
slim zinc
I have no trouble maintaining at least 2 minute banners and feel I massively lack in my warrior skill
cobalt seal
I think most people that are here are trying todo just that. Thats why im asking...
Highly doubt
slim zinc
But like, you can do 30s without maintaining banner for more than 40 seconds on average, doesn't mean you should strive to only have 40 sec banners
Can still work on your rotation to have 100% uptime to make your healers life easier as well as do more damage
cobalt seal
I would say like 90% of people here that are necro
Never did some training
And likely drop banner all the time
slim zinc
Probably a bit hyperbolic π€·
cobalt seal
A bit
tender cove
I would say like 90% of people here that are necro
I played prot pala for most of SL and only dabbled with warrior late s4.
But i did spend a good hour on the dummies... Still couldn't really maintain it over 1 minute. Usually 40-50 sec.
slim zinc
Think it took me ~1 hour on dummies to hit 1 minute
another hour for 2-3 minute ones
and one last hour plus some keys to get a 15 minute banner
tender cove
I didn't really like the banner play to be totally honest :x
pallid quiver
that's unfortunate, since we still play the same way
cobalt seal
Not exactly
pallid quiver
It was literally just a free buff for doing the basics of the class
tender cove
I dont even have banner on my bars atm
cobalt seal
He might not like the chainpull
slim zinc
Yeah
pallid quiver
You've always been encouraged to chain pull as Warrior due to rage decaying outside of combat.
Though probably not to that much of an extent, though
slim zinc
ultimately banner is literally just a consequence of good rotational skill
cobalt seal
Yeah
tender cove
He might not like the chainpull
I didnt like the 100 apm req.
slim zinc
Even without banner 100 apm is still the optimal play
removing banner doesn't change anything, you still aim for 100% sb uptime and to dump rage for avatar cdr
pallid quiver
Banner just let you up the APM a bit by giving you free rage
You'd still aim for that very high APM otherwise
tender cove
removing banner doesn't change anything, you still aim for 100% sb uptime and to...
Why does it feel so different now then? Just reprisal gone?
pallid quiver
Reprisal's going to be the main thing people notice being gone, but we are generating a bit less rage in ST, at least in beta
slim zinc
probably? Like, I've not noticed much difference tbh
pallid quiver
And having less rage means you're not pressing quite as many buttons
slim zinc
I still charge weave for rage
pallid quiver
It's a lot harder to charge weave, though, without missing a GCD due to the missing move speed
tender cove
probably? Like, I've not noticed much difference tbh
Then I dont know. I really never liked it in s4 but been having tons of fun this weekend on prepatch.
slim zinc
It's a lot harder to charge weave, though, without missing a GCD due to the miss...
Yeah I don't actively seek it out as much as I take the chance when I get it
tender cove
Do any of you have some videos from beta m+ testing? No, i dont want to watch some rando. I want to watch someone who does it close to perfect.
cobalt seal
Because the playstyle is similar
You simply dont have a skill check to tell you you sucked
Because thats what banner is
A simple skill check on basic rotation of pwar
slim zinc
Then you don't want to watch me cause I'm not close to perfect on warrior
I've been putting my hours into vdh and ppala instead
cobalt seal
Especially in pre patch (outside of pure st) if you drop banner you prob fucked up the rotation is 50 dif ways
Just watch nome
tender cove
Then you don't want to watch me cause I'm not close to perfect on warrior
Didnt mean to make it sound THAT dramatic but you get my point. Dont just wanna google "pwarr m+ testing" and get someone who tries pwarr for their first time xD
slim zinc
If Nom has any videos I'd watch them
cobalt seal
He prob has vods
But honestly apm is what pwar is all about
If you dont like it
Hmmm
tender cove
I dunno. Haven't really played pwarr since MoP and dont think i really gone above 80 apm as ppala.
so another 20% on top of that. Its fast for sure.
jagged pier
its 70ish
cobalt seal
More on aoe
cobalt seal
Even on aoe isnt higher than 70?
tender cove
wait, you just told its the same, with or without banner π
jagged pier
nome said it was around 70 the other day cro
cobalt seal
Hmmm
jagged pier
wait, you just told its the same, with or without banner π
no banner adds tones of extra rage
jagged pier
i mean sure might be
but u have less rage to spam
and u have to weave SS in now
cause BS
is do do
tender cove
BS is bloodsurge?
jagged pier
yes
cobalt seal
wait, you just told its the same, with or without banner π
The playstyle not the apm
tender cove
The playstyle not the apm
Ohh, i got that confused. My bad.
The playstyle is nice, it feels like a good fast paced rotation. But the whole hammering the keyboards to my fingers bleed while executing it perfectly? Not so fun.
cobalt seal
The slowest tank in beta is prob vdh
jagged pier
i mena prot warrior got a lot easier since pre patch
tender cove
i mena prot warrior got a lot easier since pre patch
I dont have a ton of experience but I think it feels good. I'm having fun at least haha π
dusk hinge
how would you rank tanks from highest apm to lowest apm? if you are already talking about it π
lone eagle
ppal used to be decently high apm but their holy power generation dropped a bit so less SoTR spam
lone eagle
so I'd say without thinking too much about it, something like pwar > brew/bear > vdh/ppal/BDK
Only because Incarn CD is so short now at 70 and so the Ironfur spam is real
cobalt seal
There is no way bdk and ppala have the same cpm as vdh
vital sinew
Splitting hairs. It's just an opinion
lone eagle
ppal might be a bit above, but BDK doesn't have that many off the GCD casts
Mostly just big CDs they rotate between
cobalt seal
ppal might be a bit above, but BDK doesn't have that many off the GCD casts
Yes. But vdh is even slower
serene fable
Hello, new to prot war I'm reading wowhead guide to understand the spec and I'm lost as I see some spells in my book which are not in the rotation like Slam or Whirlwind, are they really never, ever used ?
proper thunder
mortal brook
Dropped early while leveling yep
lone eagle
To clarify
you take Rend as a talent
but you don't use it in your rotation, because Blood and Thunder in the Class tree makes your Thunderclap apply Rend to 5 targets every time you use it if you have Rend talented
serene fable
Ok, thanks ! I'll remove them from my bars π
tulip warren
Thanks for the question and answers ! I was thinking the same thing
dusk hinge
Is this low SB IP uptime ?
switched to Into the Fray from Heavy Repercussions and felt shit ^^
oak echo
If thats over a whole dungeon yeah pretty low. Between affix, talents, and banner you can get 100% with proper play
jagged pier
switched to Into the Fray from Heavy Repercussions and felt shit ^^
I mean uptime doesnt matter blocked hits does, but thag looks giga low
blazing condor
Cant look at details to see effective uptime%
dusk hinge
well it was a 8+ and I have no soulbinds nor covenants, cuz I wanna test df stuff and not sl stuff
I didnt choose any soulbind or something on this warri for testing
with heavy repercussions i had 86% in details and without only 68%
blazing condor
if you actually wanna see your "real" shield block uptime you gotta log
cobalt seal
switched to Into the Fray from Heavy Repercussions and felt shit ^^
Its not ift vs hr
Because you can still get high block uptime without hr
jagged pier
Yer but anyhing for sls doesnt effect sb uptime only df talents and olaystyle do
dusk hinge
some1 said with banner and affix thats why im saying its without anything.
blazing condor
you had 79% blocked hits
cobalt seal
45 cpm does say alot
blazing condor
yeah you need to press more buttons
cobalt seal
You missing a good 15-20 cpm
blazing condor
and you deal hella damage with thunderclap so youre probably using outburst stacks on TC too much
dusk hinge
I will log another 8+ and try it again
blazing condor
dusk hinge
so outburst on SS and just pressing more buttons ^^ im trying to look more on SB but I though I did
jagged pier
No its outbrust on TC if u have 6+ targets or 4+ targets and u are in avatar and have UF otherwise its SS
dusk hinge
was even worse I think
I was even using skills just for the cpm like storm bolt on a boss cuz I had nothing else to press and still only 47cpm
and I was especially looking to not overlap my SB but I still run out of charges
I have no legendary which grants me SB on charge btw maybe you missed that in the last logs
that might explain the low uptime I guess?
cobalt seal
I was even using skills just for the cpm like storm bolt on a boss cuz I had not...
So
Pwar doesnt have empty gcds
Unless you get unlucky with ss resets
dusk hinge
I had tons of empty gcds in my key
running out of SB charges, TC cd outside of Avatar, SS resets kinda low yes but sometimes it was okay and for Revenge you need Rage to use it which I sometimes ran out of if DS and Avatar were on CD and cant really use charge when perma in melee except for HL and charge back into
jovial wedge
does IP has some hidden CD?
lofty widget
jovial wedge
oh ok, not so hidden xD
cobalt seal
running out of SB charges, TC cd outside of Avatar, SS resets kinda low yes but ...
Something else is going on
And its not only the rage missing from banner
dusk hinge
I dont know, what im missing is Soulbinds, Conduits, Legendary and Covenant Spell. Cuz I want a DF enviroment and not SL
dire tide
is immovable object viable compared to to unstoppable force?
dusk hinge
yes and in DF im missing banner soulbinds conduits and legendarys so yeah
thin silo
I dont know, what im missing is Soulbinds, Conduits, Legendary and Covenant Spel...
that's a bit like comparing apples to oranges, and then refusing to eat the skins of the apples "to keep things equal"