prot nerfed again tho
#protection
vestal moat
chrome falcon
i think execute actually comes off the bar now
radiant magnet
did that weeks ago
chrome falcon
it might not even be good dam in pure ST
well it's not good dam now
but revenge might actually just be better
pallid quiver
But we have execute talents! 🙂
radiant magnet
revenge w/ talents is like 1-2% off execute
vestal moat
makes sense especially with our tier
radiant magnet
so why execute?
vestal moat
execute is actually a dps loss since we lose the tier buff
radiant magnet
you can do both w/ tier, but it's a pita
and takes decent haste
just not worth it
halcyon oracle
If i got it wellyou never had a lot of frailty stacks if u played bomb so ... except the same healing nerf from frailty ( they are still realy strong so not that much a pb) it'snot really a nerf
sturdy sable
You didnt run bomb if you where trying to play around frailty tho
mellow quartz
were all these new packs in HOV there last week also?
cobalt seal
You didnt run bomb if you where trying to play around frailty tho
You did
Spb is locked in df
cobalt seal
were all these new packs in HOV there last week also?
I think they rolled back old hov
Either by mistake
Or they changed it again
oak echo
You didnt run bomb if you where trying to play around frailty tho
are you planning to play at lvl 60 in DF? because that's the only time you wouldn't take both
mellow quartz
I think they rolled back old hov
nah the first part still has the new removed mobs etc
they just added a pack in the middle and several in the wolf area
also you cant run past that 3 pack up near hyrja anymore
they changed the mobs position 😦
moved the 2 adds on either side closer to the walls lol
cobalt seal
Thats fine
mellow quartz
And the wolves still don’t jump anymore so seem much better to pull than bears now.
novel temple
Wait, did we get nerfed?
vital sinew
a smidge
oak echo
a questionable execute nerf is all war got
novel temple
Oh I’m reading it
Not the end of the world
Couldn’t really care honestly
Just don’t touch anything else
I’ll sacrifice some parsing after prog
Wait
Hold on. I wasn’t able to see the OTHER nerf
I didn’t know there was more than just the execute nerf
cobalt seal
Yes
novel temple
Ok
cobalt seal
Still doesnt really matter
novel temple
Anything else besides shield charge/revenge/thunder clap
I was on duty yesterday so no access to anything wow related
cobalt seal
Except for the fact bdk is now the highest dmg tank because people managed to suck enough to get it buffed
solid sun
Or just play your preferred tank
novel temple
Or is this not the death of prot
elder bay
Only for those that stop playing it
oak echo
depends on your definition of death but there's no reasonable definition that would say prot is bad now
it is still very very good at the things it does
novel temple
Like not dying and just sit in battle stance?
cobalt seal
Like not dying and just sit in battle stance?
Like
If you wanna fotm
Do fotm
Neither pwar or vdh or ppala or brew or bear are gonna be the deciding factor
Of you failing whatever you have fear of failing
oak echo
what's wild is we're not even at fotm anymore. shit is getting tuned so frequently because y'know. that's the phase of the beta we're in right now. at this point we're flavor of the day chasing
tomorrow bear will get another small damage buff and we'll be having the same conversation all over again
mellow quartz
Bears do nothing
they got buffed 2 weeks ago, if you pull 8 of them now you will get owned if you dont constantly kite to drop the debuff
also shadowmoon boss adds seem to all scale with fort.....
sick sentinel
wait i thought BDK had higher damage than warrior why did it get buffed
cobalt seal
Because people sucked at bdk
So they did 0 dmg
And pwar did more aoe
And slightly less st
devout basalt
sick sentinel
so let me get this straight
by design BDK had higher damage than warrior
but because some people couldnt use BDK to its full potential
blizz decided to buff it pretty significantly
i still dont understand
fast knot
Content creators would spend like 2-3 hours fumbling around and fail in epic fashion
bring out the "ree this class is dogshit" videos
sick sentinel
I have a hard time believing that is the reason behind the buffs
fast knot
Watching some people try to tank and not understand how to get bone shield stacks was pretty laughable
I doubt it as well
cobalt seal
I have a hard time believing that is the reason behind the buffs
But it is lol
sick sentinel
so why did BDK get so much damage buff
fast knot
but the general consensus for the class was that it wasn't performing well
cobalt seal
by design BDK had higher damage than warrior
St yes. Aoe no
mellow quartz
to be perfectly honest, a tanks overall in a key is largely irrelevant what you want from a tank is ST damage
your dps will carry the overall, you need to focus prior mobs
you doing massive aoe is just killing targets that can be used as funnel in many situations
one of the reasons bdk s3 and s4 was so good was its ST
mellow quartz
besides survivability yes
limber sky
UW Neft!!!
cobalt seal
That wasnt what you said
cobalt seal
UW Neft!!!
Old news
mellow quartz
That wasnt what you said
you were discussing ST vs aoe damage with the guy above
cobalt seal
you were discussing ST vs aoe damage with the guy above
Yes
mellow quartz
was talking from a damage point of view
cobalt seal
You gonna pretend bdk aoe was bad?
mellow quartz
nope, but large part of that was jailor weapon
mellow quartz
bad people are bad
cobalt seal
mellow quartz
doesnt change anything lol
cobalt seal
Sure sure
So by your logic
I should run a st build
Because what a tank should do is st
patent osprey
So what's everyone rerolling to 
cobalt seal
Bear
pallid quiver
An early grave
cobalt seal
patent osprey
Prot Warrior looking alot like Crypto recently
pallid quiver
No, the Warriors are calmer
we're angrier because we get less rage
Law of Inverse Rage Gain and what-not
fallow osprey
Oh no….you’re right
pallid quiver
madder we are, calmer our character. Madder our character, calmer we are
Holds true through literally every xpac
hollow token
What’s the talent the extends SB duration
last mason
Are the nerfs that bad
civic rapids
Does Blizz balance dmg based on bstance and survival on dstance?
cobalt seal
Doubt
pallid quiver
Ask the Magic 8-ball for that one, boss
They could probably even change how they feel like balancing just between shifts
paper coral
Watching some people try to tank and not understand how to get bone shield stack...
i'll admit that the rotation kind of threw me off a little. I'm used to maintaining max boneshield stacks and now according to the discord you dont do that, you marrowrend at the end of DRW and then you ideally dont really DC/marrowrend again until DRW comes back? And that felt weird.
I got used to it, but i'm still not a fan.
fast knot
Some of them definitely got it figured out after some finagling but others would literally run into a pull and never get any stacks
and then wonder why they get absolutely thrashed
paper coral
I was used to marrowrending in a pull. Once I realized DRW gave me 5 stacks, it was a no brainer. I pop DRW on pull, or I make sure that I have stacks for next pull, or I just marrowrend if i'm short a couple.
fast knot
I'll level my DK to have as an alt but I can still never really get over the pucker feel of getting punched and then full healing
paper coral
But the tanky monkey brain in my thinks "max boneshield stacks at all times"
Yeah, same. I like the VDH for the self heals. I think VDH feels way tankier passively than the BDK so there's less massive yoyos.
tender cove
Suffering is part of being warrior. It is what it is.
grizzled current
Best way to get to shield + 1h right now? No dropluck in dungeons for me
paper coral
My warrior is my oldest char.
astral crystal
Best way to get to shield + 1h right now? No dropluck in dungeons for me
dinar
slow token
Will they quit nerfing damn prot!
astral crystal
what are the best items to spend dinars on?
ye it's not that important anymore, but OWS, RDM, shard, the end of raid ilvl shield/weap
paper coral
ye it's not that important anymore, but OWS, RDM, shard, the end of raid ilvl sh...
I got a 272 weap from a ampule or w/e
so I can get OWS/RDM/shield or shard.
astral crystal
get a nice shield prob, then ows or rdm, you wont need shard
paper coral
it's 3 dinar, so it would be shield, ows and rdm, no?
mellow quartz
damn that third boss in Temple is just.....
so they fixed the 2nd part of his chain so you have plenty of time to move out and not get hit but on a 17 fort he puts an absorb shield on you for over 50% of your HP, over 200k absorb......
and the waves in the jade phase are almost impossible to see and dodge for melee
1 good fix, 2 more things they need to work on lol
edgy bone
@candid path did you catch the Hawks sixers game?
candid path
Negative, busy night. Looks like the boys pulled off yet another win, which is pretty normal against the Sixers.
severe hatch
How close to revenge being more ST than execute now
sick sentinel
How close to revenge being more ST than execute now
not
candid path
they both just took a nerf in the last 24 hours
pallid quiver
they slapped so many minor nerfs on at this point i can't even meme that we're dead without someone actually believing or engaging with me
this is truly the second to worst outcome we could have had...
candid path
I remember when they kept nerfing Rage gen every week
everyone was sure the class was cooked then
pallid quiver
Man, slapping Outburst that hard step 1 was wild, though
candid path
shield block uptime is still 250%
pallid quiver
"small steps"
still remember that one
Dropping that rage gen 10/10 necessary, but the wording made it hilarious
swift galleon
i'll admit that the rotation kind of threw me off a little. I'm used to maintain...
U never tried to stay at 10, 5+ was always more than enough
paper coral
U never tried to stay at 10, 5+ was always more than enough
The last time I played bdk, you wanted to it marrowrend at like 7 to keep high. I think that was BFA.
swift galleon
Can't recall that tbh. But all SL u didn't care much as long as u were above 5 for occ
edgy bone
@candid path Yeah dude it was a great game. Trae Young is a real facilitator but he takes over when he needs to
candid path
gonna have to catch the highlights later on tonight!
edgy bone
Harden was out but even if he was back I think the hawks wouldve taken it
for sure it was intense
candid path
he slows that team down so much, he's such a negative on defense, and the Hawks have always beaten the Sixers down
edgy bone
Clint capela being able to run the pick and roll at high speed is huge with trae young
candid path
yes indeed
edgy bone
TY just pinpoints those alley oops even when degree of difficulty is max
oblique garnet
candid path
his alley-oop tossing ability has been special since year 1
edgy bone
They ran this pick and roll and it fell apart, he hesitated for a second, then just pulled up from 10 feet behind the line 😂
candid path
he's such a gifted passer, and if he really can commit to the idea of playing and moving off-ball while Dejounte runs the offense at times, hooooo boy
edgy bone
how do you feel as a defender when you force their play to fall apart then the due just pulls up from half court anyway
candid path
sounds like Trae!
edgy bone
he's such a gifted passer, and if he really can commit to the idea of playing *a...
That's something steph curry does well
i think those two get along
at all star break they always seem to be shootin the breeze and having fun
trae young definitely gives steph curry vibes sometimes
candid path
yeah, he's going for that a bit
edgy bone
he seems like the only other dude in the league
candid path
doesn't have anywhere close to the accuracy
edgy bone
that's confident from that far out
candid path
but he is the only other guy who puts up that volume from that range
edgy bone
right
candid path
and he is already a better passer than arguably anyone in the league not named Jokic
candid path
yeah, Dejounte Murray got traded from the Spurs to the Hawks this past off-season
edgy bone
What's his story
candid path
one of my favorite players in the league the last few years
edgy bone
Real deal or just B+ tier role player
candid path
oh, he's absolutely for real
he's an extraordinary defender
good ball-handler, good facilitator, pretty perfect in the role the Hawks have gotten him to fill
edgy bone
Ok I see
sick sentinel
no more heritage hell for me, finally finised with the achievement ones at least
took 9hrs 11 minutes to lvl dk 10-50 from creation
mortal brook
good work
limpid anchor
Good bye execute :(
lone eagle
BDK better execute than warrior now
limpid anchor
I don’t get the change tho
We have a few execute talents but they are dead now
Just because arms has 15 stack jugger now? Or am I missing something
novel temple
ye it's not that important anymore, but OWS, RDM, shard, the end of raid ilvl sh...
whatre the acronyms besides ows
sick sentinel
its prob just some baseline change to make the scale inline with their model
shrewd epoch
yeah, Dejounte Murray got traded from the Spurs to the Hawks this past off-seaso...
I thought I was on spurs discord for a second there haha
sick sentinel
dude its not that big of a deal
candid path
I thought I was on spurs discord for a second there haha
Go Spurs Go!
solid sun
Go Spurs Go!
It's the Rockets year
shrewd epoch
Go Spurs Go!
This season is awesome even when we lose
onyx vessel
candid path
the ball movement is so damn fun
shrewd epoch
the ball movement is so damn fun
2014 vibes
candid path
hell yeah
onyx vessel
ionic fern
whatre the acronyms besides ows
Reactive Defense Matrix, Shard of Annhylde's Aegis
candid path
thumbs down to Rockets, always
novel temple
ahhhh
are they the best to pick still?
ive got like everything and a scars from lfr that i could upgrade to heroic
mighty valley
I mean, there's a few weeks left, doesn't really matter
pallid quiver
the best to pick is whatever is best xmog
mighty valley
but they are powerful trinkets
honestly thing gavel offspec is the only unique thing that might be worth messing with before the expac drops
be a while before they do something as powerful as gavel again
pallid quiver
unless
That being said, I 100% continuously forget to use gavel whenever I DPS War
because i just can't the think about DPS War good
i use it while i've been messing with my DK and it's on the same button and everything
it just doesn't mentally connect for me
mighty valley
Fair enough
neon fossil
@ionic fern And VDH didn't get nerfed. They got buffed. >.<
neon fossil
No, but it's fucking wrong
ionic fern
Tuning is on-going always. 🤷
rich helm
ye its 5-6% dmg nerf for vdh, and in burst even more
modern brook
Honestly if people spent as much time talking about pwar as they do other tanks here we wouldn't be worried about a bunch of miniscule nerfs smh my head
rich helm
i think the gap has just closed a bit, vdh and prot were ahead
modern brook
I just don't think it matters
Chats been dooming over 5% less blood surge procs since like 4 pm est
Like we're fine
mortal brook
no, you're fine 
slim zinc
Does that take away from your enjoyment of the class/game or?
The issue with the vdh nerf is that it actively removes complexity of the spec, and easier specs is sad specs
slim zinc
You can, sure
ionic fern
You can, sure
slim zinc
It's not even that bad, it's just not the best
sick sentinel
Theres no way they make BDK meta for 3 seasons straight right
slim zinc
I made this yesterday
Blood is probably the highest cap of a tank, doesn't mean that the majority of players can perform better on vdh or Pwar or any other tank for that matter
People just need to forget that the meta exists and play what they enjoy
ionic fern
Imagine if people listened to reason and played games for enjoyment.
What a world it would be.
slim zinc
I'd say our group is living proof that you absolutely don't need to play meta to do high keys
sick sentinel
problem is finding a group for that
its never whether you can or cant'
its why would you not want the meta
slim zinc
Because I don't need it and would rather play specs I actually enjoy
hard vessel
Asking for a blood dk in 24 is a full joke mode
ionic fern
Me personally, i enjoy playing warrior and i cba gearing all the characters based on "oh, their meta!!!" especially knowing that the content i'm doing doesn't benefit in me re-rolling.
sick sentinel
well you have to convince at least 4 other people that
ionic fern
well you have to convince at least 4 other people that
OR..get 4 normal people.
hazy thicket
Why would you want a group that values meta over competence at a key level that meta is hardly relevant
mortal brook
can i have both
ionic fern
can i have both
No.
mortal brook
hek
slim zinc
Mate we do 27s with 5 tanks, anyone saying you need spec x at that point is likely just bad
ionic fern
5 tanks is cheating.Smh
slim zinc
And that's the harsh truth
slim zinc
People need to worry less about what is best, and more about becoming the best at what you enjoy
sick sentinel
guys
this was from
i think 3 weeks into S4?
why are you talking as if this happened today lol
slim zinc
Because it happens to hundreds people today as well
slim zinc
This isn't something only in the start of a season
sick sentinel
i wanted to push but people only wanted bdk, and rightfully so
so i didnt bother to reroll
slim zinc
People are just way too worried about meta
Season 4 is a massive outlier
Where we clearly had a good idea what would be strong
But the mentality is carrying over hard to DF and it's just causing toxicity
placid vale
So guys, new set of changes. What do we think? Just woke up
They just nerfed Execute a little more?
blazing condor
oh no my 10% rage
sick sentinel
bro
strong forum
Literally a dead button
sick sentinel
its like
5%
execute was no more than like 5% overall for pwar in a typical key
thats 0.25% give or take
relax
strong forum
5% is already a big number
It's alot less und df
In SL it was closer to 10-15% of your dmg
sick sentinel
what
anything over 3/4 tar you dont even cast it how can it possibly be 15% overall
and even then thats like 0.5~0.75% overall
its not the end of the world
strong forum
and even then thats like 0.5~0.75% overall
In SL, execute AP was 170%
Now in DF it's 95%
How is it a small nerf again?
sick sentinel
wait so it was changed in pre patch?
strong forum
Yes
strong forum
They literally removed the button for us
Because arms does good dmg with it
I fucking cba
blazing condor
wait execute actually dead
limpid anchor
Does arms even do good dmg with it kek
blazing condor
sick sentinel
idk i dont mind not pressing it outside of pure ST
lyric elm
So blizz can't even adjust a skills damage for a spec only
They need to blanket apply it
limpid anchor
Execute is iconic and they removed it, kinda bad ngl
lyric elm
Yes it's very important to our identity and many like to press it
limpid anchor
Don’t even use it in pure st anymore no?
strong forum
If you have tierset
sick sentinel
i mean you still use it in st
strong forum
It's hardly worth it
Hardly
You're better off keeping up vanguards determination in DF
Than to spam execute
It'll be the tiniest of dps increase in pure ST to use execute
But it'll make your rotation clunkier
blazing condor
one less button i guess
lyric elm
Sadge
limpid anchor
I can feel the class fantasy
ionic fern
You're better off keeping up vanguards determination in DF
See,they addressed the tier set issue.
strong forum
That's streets 25 in pre-patch
ionic fern
😂
strong forum
Execute from 2k dps down to 600
ionic fern
"We heard your complaints that your tier set is useless in ST since it only procs from Revenge but you want to Execute! We nerfed Execute so now you will use Revenge so your tier set works also on ST".
limpid anchor
But arms sucked already, it makes no sense
cobalt seal
Problem solved
limpid anchor
Yes for 35%
And even during execute you can’t catch up
Now overall dps nerf
So both specs lost dmg, idk but that doesn’t seem like a nice change considering neither was top in dps in the first place
blazing condor
dw theres still time to change it before DF
sick sentinel
blazing condor
limpid anchor
dw theres still time to change it before DF
Yes for more nerfs kek
Gonna play war regardless, but feels kinda bad :/
strong forum
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hMqvb8QiUk&t=2s
Literal wow Hall of fame
I wanted to recreate this video with avatar and pwar in m+
In bfa
But I never got around to it
blazing condor
lyric elm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hMqvb8QiUk&t=2s
thats what its all about
making a game fun
zealous willow
keep survival and destro 5 months meta
kill arms before release
i guess to enjoy wow u must play only 1-2 classes
they will kill unholy 100% soon
lyric elm
i guess to enjoy wow u must play only 1-2 classes
rogue forever god-class
uncut notch
since tough as nails damage is so low, feels like bolster is the better choice?
or is that smoking crack
2 minute last stand feels nice with our sub 1 minute shield walls
uncut notch
Now in DF it's 95%
also again please call me out if im a moron but that says 2x 0.95% of AP, which if you had 100 ap would be 190dmg, vs 170 dmg in the old metric? Unless it was 2* 170% of AP in the SL build?
strong forum
It was 2*170%
uncut notch
It was 2*170%
holy fuck
strong forum
And tough as nails is so low because I play in a 5tank setup
In a normal scenario it does more dmg
Nails does around 3.5% of your overall in normal keys
uncut notch
And tough as nails is so low because I play in a 5tank setup
Chad af
uncut notch
My execute went from 50k crits with stars aligning, down to 19k crits 🙂
delicious level 50 numbers nice
toxic pewter
Execute truly has become a shadow of its former self. Rip
uncut notch
My execute went from 50k crits with stars aligning, down to 19k crits 🙂
even with the Ashen Juggernaught 45% ( I think) buff thats still like, 50% of where it should be in line with level and stat increase
uncut notch
and it takes a hot minute to get there too
urban portal
yeah execute got a huge nerf
think its mainly targetted towards arms
tho we did get a lot of shield slam buffs
strong forum
Yes, we're suffering for arms sins
strong forum
6-7% nerf on aoe + 5% less rage gen
2% less rage gen in ST and like 2% less dps in ST
We're still very strong, but bdk and vdh are likely ahead now
And brm just doesn't count
crimson furnace
i leveled a DH the past days, and I really wanted to try and get into it..
I just dont feel it, as a class
gonna play it more these days, but its just...
i prefer my warr anyday
strong forum
What doesn't stick doesn't stick
crimson furnace
yhea, exactly the way i feel
sick sentinel
wdym by brm doesnt count?
strong forum
Their dmg is way off this planet
No way that won't get fixed
They're literally 30%+ ahead of other tanks
faint mural
I'm late to the party, how does Shield Charge feel on the GCD now? Feel yuck? Is it fine?
crimson furnace
its fine
pallid quiver
it's not as fun
faint mural
Haha that's a shame
pallid quiver
not that i've pressed it with it on the GCD yet
strong forum
It just means you can fat finger it less often now
And send it before demo shout on accident
uncut notch
They're literally 30%+ ahead of other tanks
tinfoil hat alert: Bet it takes a fuck load longer to fix than the pwar shred of success will
astral heron
warm plinth
@ionic fern hi ily
placid vale
BrM does a shitton of dmg, but are squishy as all hell. And you do 0 dmg if youre dead.
mortal brook
Cope
stone inlet
Yeah as monk main I’d gladly trade dmg for survibability
It’s useless to compare our dmg if we can’t survive a pull
plush saffron
Prot Pals were in the same position at start of SLands and no one played them, its just not worth it
strong forum
Prot Pals were in the same position at start of SLands and no one played them, i...
People just didn't abuse the venthyr tech for raid
Look at how pally turned out in s2
Venthyr prot pally being the absolute dominant raid tank in sod
warm plinth
Fun fact: Did you know that frogs survive through the winter by finding burrows or crevices, and then they hibernate, during which they generate a super high amount of glucose. Which basically means they fill their bodies with antifreeze so that they don't freeze to death.
ionic fern
exotic matrix
does having higher ilvl shield increase your damage done (outside ofraw stat gain) like with weapon?
ionic fern
No.
exotic matrix
aww dang
crude notch
Fun fact: Did you know that frogs survive through the winter by finding burrows ...
Fun fact: Ghash is cute.
warm plinth
Warlock has 16 to go and then I have two 45 toons to get to 50 and then I'm just waiting until the 15th
crude notch
Did you know that you can drink a draught just before hitting 50 and still keep the buff
warm plinth
I did indeed
crude notch
I figured you would. D:
warm plinth
I can't really abuse that though because I'm running really low on medals x_x
I was scrambling just to find enough to buy draughts for this toon lol
crude notch
I finished all the heritage armor sets that I was missing still. woohoo
warm plinth
Hell yeah
Believe it or not, I'm still gonna be missing one(?) after all this
I don't have the highmountain tauren one
crude notch
I level too many druids to not have gotten that one right away. lol
warm plinth
I have a highmountain tauren druid but it was a boost
crude notch
I told myself I wasn't gonna level any druids this week because I have too many and well, I lied.
I'm curious to see what 10-60 is gonna feel like in Shadowlands campaign.
warm plinth
gonna be weird when I literally have no other toons to level 👀
though that won't last long, since I'll have to get htem all to 70
crude notch
I deleted a few toons because I wanted to see what it felt like leveling with the new talent trees.
warm plinth
It's super nice 😊
crude notch
I don't do the zone questing like you do. I just do dungeons even on dps. Brewmaster is still the worst tank to level in dungeons as.
warm plinth
Poor BrM can't catch a break
crude notch
Being able to queue as tank at level 10 is weird for some tanks. Mainly Prot Pally because you need 11 to get AS.
Made me feel like first point should be spec based not class based.
warm plinth
ah yeah that would be a little awkard
Either that or they should've kept dungeon queueing starting at 15 isntead of 10
instead*
crude notch
I did enjoy the flexibility along the way though, like disc priest I didn't grab rapture or barrier until near the end or when I needed a breakpoint because they're basically useless for leveling.
warm plinth
yeah, it's nice to mostly avoid the useless stuff. pwar was amazing to level with the new talents but I guess they have the same issue as paladin where they don't get the first aoe ability until 11
Or I guess it'd be 12
having war machine was so nice though
crude notch
Thankfully with warrior you get WW when you first queue. Hell Bear has it best among all the tanks because your first dungeon you'd have thrash and swipe.
warm plinth
does ww cost rage for prot?
crude notch
ye
warm plinth
touche
crude notch
You'd be surprised (not really) at how late I was running into pwars still using WW.
warm plinth
I would really love if they would just get rid of the ranks of flying altogether and just let us have 310 at level 30 though
crude notch
Agreed.
Ran into someone in their 40s spamming WW not pressing TC at all and they kept apologizing that their health was bouncing so much they couldn't get enough rage for shield block. Then I introduced them to the blessed saviour that is Thunderclap.
warm plinth
XD
ember tangle
i had some fun running ravager with bonegrinder for a bit of ww spam to burst
only in like 15-18 keys tho
blazing condor
im glad bonegrinder wasnt a thing
knotty idol
We must cry publicly if we want to be buffed back to our former glory
blazing condor
🙂
hard vessel
Just act like mages who think if they are not s+ they need buffs
blazing condor
i choose dreamgrove mentality
plush saffron
those furries?
sweet summit
uneven mason
i choose dreamgrove mentality
Roll over and die?
sharp bone
dreamgrove mentality means rerolling warr
sick sentinel
for the most part ive been bearish on alot of things in my life
normally take a slower more cautious approach to many problems
bulls charge in with reckless abandon...
cobalt seal
scroll even more
uneven mason
are the nerfs not on wowhead?
They're so big they sank to the bottom
jovial wedge
what nerfs?
last mason
They're so big they sank to the bottom
wdym im at the bottom of the post hahaha
nvm i found them, from 11/9
uneven mason
Idk actually they're there, in one of the beta posts, big DPS nerfs on war
jovial wedge
nvm i found them, from 11/9
can u link them?
last mason
jovial wedge
oh well, they seem minimal
uneven mason
oh well, they seem minimal
Massive, 2 nd Lowest damage tank now
Flee, flee from this place!
grave crane
Prot warrior on life support. Bdk is back to being the best tank in the game
strong forum
Pally and bear prolly still do less dmg
But yeah
We're back to SL s2
Except that we have good boss dmg
uneven mason
Bear is on the way up
strong forum
Ik
mighty grail
Is it that bad? We jumped from number 1 to 4?
mighty grail
How it looks now?
strong forum
(brm)>Vdh=bdk>pwar>=pally>=bear
uneven mason
Is it that bad? We jumped from number 1 to 4?
The numbers were not that far off, but vdh and BRM have always done more and bdk was right there with us
strong forum
In terms of dmg output in m+
In ST dps it's closely the same
Except that bdk is king
uneven mason
The only time we were ahead was when there was bugs propping up the numbers
last mason
wtf the point of pally being squishy and high skill ceiling if its not top end dmg
strong forum
With current numbers
mighty grail
Except that bdk is king
What makes them still so good ?
strong forum
Bdk is closer to 40k St dps than 35k
somber shell
I have a BRM right now, it's scary AF to play. I won't be playing it in DF unless they improve self sustain.
uneven mason
wtf the point of pally being squishy and high skill ceiling if its not top end d...
Because the prot paladin feedback is being drowned in a river of retadin tears
somber shell
prot paladin community is absolteuly filled with doomers
strong forum
What makes them still so good ?
Just pure numbers and lots and lots of % increases
last mason
is ret even that bad, i thought the actual tuning was alright and they were just mad about it being boring with a shitty class tree
grave crane
The two Ret players in raid say that the tree doesn’t feel good
uneven mason
is ret even that bad, i thought the actual tuning was alright and they were just...
Retadins cry when they're #1 dps
I've never seen more obtusely overpowered and baseless begging for buffs than that paladin thread
strong forum
Just because your numbers are high, doesn't mean the spec isnt shit
last mason
the ret channel in HoW is also aids
somber shell
prot pally has a similar group think going on right now with the main thought leaders being convinced things suck because blizz didnt follow through on the vision for the class that they laid out in summer, despite how it actually feels to play the game
last mason
Just because your numbers are high, doesn't mean the spec isnt shit
ik, but it means the doomers should be more nuanced
grave crane
If the spec feels bad to play but does good damage then it still feels bad to play
uneven mason
the ret channel in HoW is also aids
HoW is a toxic circle jerk of people with underaged anime PFP being angry about all the weebs in their discord
somber shell
feel is all so subjective
last mason
HoW is a toxic circle jerk of people with underaged anime PFP being angry about ...
Actually true. Tbh the prot channel is fine but the ret and holy ones are exactly like you said
holy channel mods appoint their stormforged equivalent rank to people who dont have active subscriptions to the game
uneven mason
I mean
strong forum
I mean
uneven mason
Lots of theory crafters don't play
strong forum
I was the same with half of SL ye?
Once you get an active understanding of the class
heavy temple
how does prot war look compared to other tanks? I have seen people talk about sustain/recovery. Are we too strong in that regard (especially the 30% IP from dmg), or is it just fine?
strong forum
You don't need to play to understand what's good and what isn't
slim zinc
I've been one of the main VDH TCs over on fel hammer and I've mained other specs more than VDH since I got the rank
strong forum
Pwar is in a good spot, maybe a bit strong defensively, but offensively we're literally middle of the pack now
last mason
well i should be more specific i guess, not playing but keeping your knowledge up to date is different from these people, who dont play feel they can actively opine on m+ nuance for hpal without having played the spec in any capacity since bfa s1
i take your points though
i still didnt articulate the difference well, but I feel like the gist of my point is there
strong forum
I understand what you mean
somber shell
well i should be more specific i guess, not playing but keeping your knowledge u...
why would someone who doesn't play have interest in a WoW class/spec discord? heh
uneven mason
Because it's community
strong forum
You can have an interest in something without actively participating in it
Just look at any Fan ever
somber shell
Fans actively participate by watching.
slow token
Prot Warriors took to many Nerfs. Bears and VDH will reign supreme season 1
uneven mason
You got it
somber shell
It's just odd to me that someone would be toxic and super involved in a disucssion of a video game they don't even play.
strong forum
Prot Warriors took to many Nerfs. Bears and VDH will reign supreme season 1
Maybe not bears, but bdk and vdh, yes
last mason
tbh i havent played since s3 but i still enjoy the game at large and am excited about whats to come
strong forum
But bear stonks are rising
strong forum
It's just odd to me that someone would be toxic and super involved in a disucssi...
So, like politicians
somber shell
Haha
last mason
the pessimistic outlook would be that they enjoy having power in the community and throwing it around
if its the people im talking about
but thats obviously subjective
strong forum
I'm really fucking pessimistic rn aswell
Cuz they buffed a tank that didn't need it at all
last mason
lol
strong forum
Throws me off
mellow quartz
When we tested m+ in SL beta wasn’t the scaling at heroic raid gear levels?
uneven mason
Cuz they buffed a tank that didn't need it at all
I've been saying that bdk will reign again how long? They never let them stay down
severe hatch
A big point in Pwarr's favor is that you can play relatively optimally at a much lower skill level compared to BDK and to some extent VDH
uneven mason
I think it's mostly because the casters they bring in for the mdi or tgp are fucking mindless unless they can talk about bdk
severe hatch
So it will be much easier to perform close to the specs maximum capability
strong forum
Pwar and vdh are literally piss easy now
Since they nerfed vdh frailty
It's alot less important to get high stacks
severe hatch
True
strong forum
This vdh frailty nerf makes it stronger for worse players
waxen cradle
So with the recent nerfs where does that leave us "honestly" because it feels like pretty much no change at all where it matters
strong forum
And worse for good players
It's a 5-10% nerf to good vdhs
Who could actively play around frailty
They rose the skill floor, and lowered the skill ceiling of vdh
severe hatch
Imo there are currently 2 tiers of tanks with CURRENT tuning: Pwarr/VDH/BDK and then Druid/Ppal/BRM
uneven mason
I think this might be a drive to get more tanks active
strong forum
If you just go by damage output
last mason
tbh in the big picture its a good change
uneven mason
Brm is good with their dps
strong forum
It's brm>bdk>vdh>=pwar>ppal>bear
uneven mason
Sounds like brm has a skill opportunity to bigger pulls around major CDs
severe hatch
Pour one out for Ppal losing their damage tank niche
last mason
^
strong forum
If you go by tankiness
uneven mason
Pour one out for Ppal losing their damage tank niche
I'd rather piss on their grave
strong forum
It's bdk>=pwar>=vdh >?????
uneven mason
shield brother tho
Don't call that windchime a shieldbro
strong forum
Pwar might be equal to bdk or higher but that's so fucking hard to judge
uneven mason
Ragebro team bear
placid vale
Why is bdk so hard now?
last mason
nah fuck bear
severe hatch
Depends on more factors than just the tank class after a certain point
ocean bloom
i feel like "tankiness" is so hard to judge becuase differnt damage taken profiles lend themselves to differnt tanks
like who can take the biggest single hit? who can take the most dmg over 5min? who can take the most dmg over 30sec?
last mason
bear has 3 other specs they can play]
uneven mason
i feel like "tankiness" is so hard to judge becuase differnt damage taken profil...
War is pretty brick vs everything
waxen cradle
I do personally not like the fact that because they have messed around with damage output that if things remain where they are we will likely see the community siding with other tanks again solely based off of damage.... which again is annoying as fuck because we are literally strong as hell
uneven mason
bear has 3 other specs they can play]
Bear can only be bear
waxen cradle
Literally at the beginning of 2 expacs now you had a TON of the ignorant community thinking Warriors sucked and people listened because our damage sucked, but we were strong as hell, and basically a wall
uneven mason
Why is bdk so hard now?
It's not, rather vdh and war have had a lot of the minor nuance of our playbreduced to basically slap buttons
uneven mason
Literally at the beginning of 2 expacs now you had a TON of the ignorant communi...
Damage wasn't our problem in bfa
plush tendon
Blood has to stand in their DnD like its a Paladin consecrate
cobalt seal
Literally at the beginning of 2 expacs now you had a TON of the ignorant communi...
Who cares
limpid anchor
I do personally not like the fact that because they have messed around with dama...
Strong as hell but weaker as others, sure
uneven mason
It was the rage banking complexity of cycling CDs for predictable damage and how much we got hit for outside of cd
strong forum
like who can take the biggest single hit? who can take the most dmg over 5min? w...
You need several high keys and mythic raid encounters to compare
Can't just run a 5min dummy test
Or a 3min aoe pack test
It depends on encounter design, dmg output, survivability, utility
uneven mason
This is why each tank has variety of tools
waxen cradle
Not saying I won't play Warrior because I will and it will be my main, but you do get tired of hearing the ignorant masses spout out seriously inaccurate information
strong forum
It'll never change
cobalt seal
Not saying I won't play Warrior because I will and it will be my main, but you d...
Ignore them
uneven mason
Our only problem in s1 was the fact blizzard left several bugs in place to.boost dh up
last mason
dh was also jsut good at running
median tulip
Personally I live for the "but I thought Prot Warrior was bad" comments when I pug a key
jovial wedge
So, in Mythic+ I'm doing between 2/3k more overall dmg going the full Shockwave path and dropping Thunderous Roar and Words. I've played today like six 10+ comparing both builds. This contradicts the build that is suggested in the pins. Am I doing something wrong?
uneven mason
Probably
cobalt seal
Our only problem in s1 was the fact blizzard left several bugs in place to.boost...
For sure it wasnt the snap threat
Utility
Running away better than everyone else
Or the 5% magic dmg
grave crane
Not saying I won't play Warrior because I will and it will be my main, but you d...
Legit just play the class and have fun. Meme on the FOTM rerollers and tier listers and enjoy pwar being in a good spot
cobalt seal
In a season with boomie mage and ehatever the 3rd was
placid vale
Damn...that bdk rotation i just saw...milimetrical
median tulip
The season 1 kite meta was some seriously cancerous gameplay
uneven mason
For sure it wasnt the snap threat
The 30% innate magic Dr also cintibuted to their ability to kite
somber shell
The season 1 kite meta was some seriously cancerous gameplay
100%
last mason
The season 1 kite meta was some seriously cancerous gameplay
its prob gonna be the same bc thats what always happens when they bring back old dungeons, theyre overtuned for months
uneven mason
Yup
jovial wedge
33k vs 35k overall
jovial wedge
just one example, I've run quite a few runs
not sure what I could be doing wrong
nope 😦
uneven mason
I mean it's all very close and there's nothing wrong with either build
But if there is an error in the sim math is more what I'd like to track down
mellow quartz
To be honest trying to judge things at 392 for how things will look at max gear and much higher keys is guess work at best.
jovial wedge
maybe I'm just holding TR to align with other CDs for too long
strong forum
Don't try to align stuff
uneven mason
not sure what I could be doing wrong
Play what works for you, the best part of our trees is that there isn't really a wrong build
strong forum
You're playing sonic boom
last mason
wish they would make the beta public already
strong forum
That's a dps loss
mellow quartz
Just send CDs when up
strong forum
Don't play sonic boom
uneven mason
Don't play sonic boom
There ya go
jovial wedge
it doesn't look like, that's why I was asking
mellow quartz
wish they would make the beta public already
It never is, that’s the PTR
Which is not the same 🙂
grave crane
Holding TR will do that
uneven mason
Wtb beta so I can spot shit like that
strong forum
Your TC usage is also a bit low
grave crane
Just send shit on cd
strong forum
Which key was it even
mellow quartz
@strong forum you send CDs on pull of tree boss or hold them for adds? 🙂
jovial wedge
Academy
strong forum
<@192743144276623360> you send CDs on pull of tree boss or hold them for adds? �...
Hold for adds cuz they are prio
Not blowing up adds is what kills your group
mellow quartz
Do you hold for 2nd set then?
strong forum
Yah
jovial wedge
what the DMG should be then?
jovial wedge
what?
mellow quartz
Problem is people are so dry for 4th set
jovial wedge
I'm going 404 ilvl and I believe doing the rotation fairly good
strong forum
Yeah you need to coordinate who sends when
jovial wedge
what am I missing? lol
mellow quartz
I can’t recall if sending on pull have them up for 4th
jagged pier
well from the looks of dps u arent doing the rotation correctly
jagged pier
could be wrong talents as well
strong forum
You're the one who said you run dry by 4th adds
That's when you need to coordinate
jovial wedge
ok, how do you play TR optimally?
uneven mason
what am I missing? lol
Do another run, log it and late will ask why there's only one tank in your group
mellow quartz
Didn’t you just say you were holding for adds?
jovial wedge
my opener is Avatar, Shout, SC and then TR
strong forum
my opener is Avatar, Shout, SC and then TR
Correct
strong forum
Didn’t you just say you were holding for adds?
You just said adds are every 1.5min
jovial wedge
then, not sure what other rotational thing I could be doing wrong
mellow quartz
You just said adds are every 1.5min
I asked if 4th wave was 1.5min in
jovial wedge
I showed two builds, one with TC and another one without
mellow quartz
Tyrannical will do that for you
uneven mason
Tc > rev ?
strong forum
I showed two builds, one with TC and another one without
That's my 61k dps breakdown
In AA
uneven mason
I fall into the trap of spamming rev
solid sun
192 casts of revenge. How does that compare to your casts of IP?
jovial wedge
hmm one thing I notices is that your TC does quite a lot more dmg than mine
uneven mason
Nom level play is the goal
uneven mason
hmm one thing I notices is that your TC does quite a lot more dmg than mine
He runs uf
solid sun
Super close together
strong forum
As it should be yes
solid sun
I'm never sure if I'm pressing too much revenge or too much ip
uneven mason
Avatar cycles very fast and tc is every other gcd during avatar
uneven mason
I'm never sure if I'm pressing too much revenge or too much ip
Press revenge, IP if you're overflowing on rage
Also everyone should have ss macros to ip
jovial wedge
do you try to align SC or Ravager always with Avatar?
strong forum
No
solid sun
What constitutes overflowing with rage
jovial wedge
so using them at cd
strong forum
I have 28 avatars in 16 minutes
mellow quartz
How did you get to the revenge and TC nerf being 6% basis this breakdown. It should be around 3% to overall no?
jovial wedge
do you press TC when its empowered by revenge or also on cd?
strong forum
Just everything on CD
jovial wedge
mm gonna run another one and report back xD
strong forum
How did you get to the revenge and TC nerf being 6% basis this breakdown. It sho...
Tbf, I took that from @slim zinc hes the math major
Me trust him
uneven mason
What's the numbers
mellow quartz
10% of 17% is 1.7 and 5% from 14% is 0.7 so abt 2.5%
That was also kinda what I saw on my own logs
2-3% overall
strong forum
I think you gotta account for glacial fury nerf aswell
So the overall from TC and revenge will be higher
mellow quartz
Won’t really double it
uneven mason
What's 1.7 from 15.3
mellow quartz
Math hard?
strong forum
Dn
strong forum
You'd be surprised
mellow quartz
There are a lot of numbers flying around
My point was just to highlight the nerf we got the other day is quite insignificant in the grand scheme of things.
south zealot
what we talkin about
strong forum
It isn't significant no
south zealot
what nerf
uneven mason
This is not the warrior fantasy
Warriors are the tactician and strategists
strong forum
But in comparison to bdk getting ~10% buff
uneven mason
This is not the warrior fantasy
Also our class has been so perpetually bad in the past that we've gotten really good at mathematics to eke out every drop of performance
uneven mason
But in comparison to bdk getting ~10% buff
Makes no sense
woven trellis
Do you have some details damage log of your 61k dungeon @strong forum I'd love to see the ratios
mellow quartz
He just posted that
slim zinc
Tbf, I took that from <@165140327923974144> hes the math major
I took it from somewhere else, I thought I got it from you xD
tender cove
Took a mini break to not burnout and we went from really happy to dooming about being worst?
Whats the actual state of warrior? Is it bad? Or just not overjoyed?
tender cove
It's feels good to play and performs well
Thats good enough for me tbh.
strong forum
I took it from somewhere else, I thought I got it from you xD
Genius
uneven mason
We're memeing, warriors are fine mostly just irritated that bdk got buffed
swift mulch
tender cove
We're memeing, warriors are fine mostly just irritated that bdk got buffed
Fair enough. Never really played BDK but sucks if they're gonna remain top dog spanning literal expos now, wtf...
uneven mason
It's mostly they were already doing well and got buffed when they don't need it
But
Whatever warriors are still probably all around #1
tender cove
And catching strays from arms nerfs sounds so 2012 and not 2022 xD
uneven mason
Eh
odd tree
the arms execute nerf was weird anyway
sterile bough
can some1 explain why are top warrios playing this ?
jagged pier
it does a fuck tone of damage on the miniboss from the affix when he pops shield
sterile bough
ye but on most dungs u are skipping it anyway
woven trellis
Are nomeratur logs 61k on a diff channel? Only log I've found in recent conversation is a academy one that adds up to maybe 40,45k
mellow quartz
I took it from somewhere else, I thought I got it from you xD
Theorycrafters smh 🤦♂️
‘Y says I got it from x’ ‘x says I got it from Y’ lol
tender cove
Only end result is what matters, forget the journey there 😛
slim zinc
Theorycrafters smh 🤦♂️
Hey now I'm too busy exploring absolutely cursed stuff on VDH I don't have time for other tanks
mellow quartz
True, VDH is cursed
sterile bough
also is there any working IP wa that works and looks like this?
slim zinc
What I'm cooking is even more cursed
slim zinc
It's the 5tank build converted to regular key stuff
strong forum
Are nomeratur logs 61k on a diff channel? Only log I've found in recent conversa...
Thats with downtime
Logs always count in downtime
And it's 6min longer than the actual key because at the time logs and details couldn't recognise the end of a dungeon
strong forum
Ive also got a vod of an AA 15 where I did 58.9k with a wipe
But the log got corrupted 😦
woven trellis
You never miss shockwave,?
strong forum
?
jovial wedge
I can't literally do more than 35k in Academy, aligning CDs or using them on CD
strong forum
Unluck
woven trellis
Ye I know but I'm asking if he never miss utility of sw
In pugs it feels to me it give so much momentum to people to adapt
Otherwise they can't catch up with mob mechanics
strong forum
At 70 you do play shockwave in m+
mellow quartz
I can't literally do more than 35k in Academy, aligning CDs or using them on CD
Pull bigger
So many things can be double and triple grouped in AA
woven trellis
At 70 you do play shockwave in m+
Am I blind I didn't see it in your log
woven trellis
Ok
mellow quartz
That was your solo +10
strong forum
Nah
mellow quartz
Sure you took it for that one?
strong forum
In my solo +10 I only did 38k dps
Cuz I wiped like 17 times to mosquitos and tree boss
mellow quartz
The link above was a +10 I mean
strong forum
Yes
jovial wedge
I dunno, don't know what I'm doing wrong
mellow quartz
So cast shockwave but missed all the casts so didn’t show up in logs 🙂
strong forum
According to talents I didn't even have it talented
But I had endurance training
So uh idk wtf went wrong there with the talents
I didn't have uproar either
mellow quartz
I ran 3 Keys yesterday with 3 set
strong forum
Smurt
mellow quartz
Was testing stuff and forgot to reequip
zenith vale
Do you guys take sudden death on bosses ?
strong forum
For raid, yes
next elbow
is it worth clicking execute as prot ?
zenith vale
Ok Thx
strong forum
But actively casting execute is kinda kaka
zenith vale
Show of force perma so ?
strong forum
No, sudden death procs are good
next elbow
in m+ iguess i go revenge all time thunderclap for rend refresh and shieldslam on procs?
zenith vale
Hmm
strong forum
But using rage to send execute is barely a dps gain
strong forum
in m+ iguess i go revenge all time thunderclap for rend refresh and shieldslam o...
Ye in m+ never use execute
Absolutely only on bosses
And pure ST encounters
They just nerfed execute by 10% again and rage refund got halved
zenith vale
You take massacre in raid so ?
strong forum
So it's really fucking sad of a button
zenith vale
Ok Thx
next elbow
or is this for future
strong forum
Level 70 tierset
woven trellis
or is this for future
It's DF talk rn
zenith vale
Yeah I realized 2 secs of block is a lot better than massacre
next elbow
seems worth to press shieldslam on AOE if proc ?