protection

[uneven mason]

Yeah tricky blizzard making it so most mechanics can't be immunity cheesed anymore

[outer solstice]

and healing as if they were a healer

[uneven mason]

Tbh I feel sorry for protpal because in their infinite wisdom blizzard created class feedback threads

And not spec

So all the prot feedback was drowned in the river of wheelchair paladins begging for idiotically overpowered buffs without a pair of braincells in the whole lot

[outer solstice]

pally

[uneven mason]

Same issue druid had, like guardian just got buried by the KFC crew

Pretty convinced that none of their development staff has ever played bear, or more likely they read up on the wotlk mechanics and gave them outdated buffs

"druids still form swap right?"

Literally the only stance bound class a 2008 mechanic in 2022

[mortal brook]

are there any stance specific abilities tho

[uneven mason]

It wouldn't take more than 5 minutes of actual thought to fix either

[uneven mason]

Bears?

[mortal brook]

bears indeed have form specific abilities

[uneven mason]

Like everything druid has is stance specific

[sick sentinel]

weird, discord tells me messages failed to load on this server lol

ohhhh

[mortal brook]

its a sign

[sick sentinel]

it's a sign? of what

[uneven mason]

That you should head back over to the bdk discord

[sick sentinel]

C O P I U M

[mortal brook]

dunno. doesnt affect me

i wont run content where its needed

might is around 20% more dam so i disagree

[sick sentinel]

i've only made 4 dk's and planning to do one tonight and tomorrow....

its not like im addicted to dk or somethin

[hollow token]

Want to jump in real quick. New to Prot Warrior. I asked the question yesterday about 100% uptime on shield block. I have only one Lego (Reprisal) and no tier (I’m like ilvl 230 or something). I have the talent that extends shield by a couple seconds. But I’m still noticing that occasionally shield block will be recharging when it falls off. This is me refreshing religiously as it falls off. No logs, sorry.

It’s only for a few seconds at most. But it’s happening occasionally during, say, a two minute boss fight

[mortal brook]

logs would be the best way to answer. could tell if you're using reprisal well, rotational stuff, all that.

can tell you 70 more ilvl would help.

[lofty widget]

do you play enduring defenses? and yeah not using reprisal well enough hurts

[hollow token]

I assumed

Not at my PC atm, but I’ll check.

[mortal brook]

where is my pasta

[hollow token]

I believe I am using the talent

[oak echo]

you said you have the shield block extension - that is most likely enduring defenses.

[sick sentinel]

i don't know what i'll main in df

[mortal brook]

LOGGING: Logs and vods give detailed info for targeted improvement.

https://www.wowhead.com/how-to-use-warcraft-logs-to-improve-character-performance long version on logging!

TLDR on getting logs!
https://i.imgur.com/SD3SFe1.png turn on advanced combat logging in game!
https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/loggerhead grab this addon! itll ask if you want to log when you enter a content. say yes so it autologs that content from now on!
https://i.imgur.com/0DK5Vkz.png gratz you have logs logging
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/client/download grab this uploader client!
https://i.imgur.com/lPNMkdQ.png upload the log!
https://i.imgur.com/oNs8Erd.png wow, many logs
Gratz you has logs to share.

[sick sentinel]

or if i'll even really play might take a break

[lofty widget]

could be HR as well, but either way 100 % should be doable with either 1 of those talents if you play rep

just comes down to practice probably, especially if youre new

[hollow token]

Thanks, bud, lol - I’m good on using logs… I just haven’t. I’m at the office and thought I’d throw it out there for discussion. I think the answer is not playing reprisal correctly.

[mortal brook]

👍

[sick sentinel]

mere steps away from out of heritage hell

for the ones with achievements anyways

40 lvls on dk, then a few race changes, boost if humans orcs etc get added, done with that forever now basically

[hollow token]

So playing reprisal correctly involves weaving in charge and intervene during pulls, right?

[lofty widget]

yep

[hollow token]

Is there a particular time in the middle of a pull to do it? When rage is low?

[mellow quartz]

Does advanced combat logging still fuck up details or did they fix that?

[lofty widget]

if SB is dropping would be a good time. but just never sit on 2 charges of charge and youre 90 % of the way there

[hollow token]

Gotcha

[lofty widget]

could also take the lazy route and talent enduring defenes+heavy rep+maybe bolster

since reprisal is gone in 2 weeks anyway

[hollow token]

Is this something we’ll have to play around in DF as well?

[lofty widget]

no

[hollow token]

Ah.

Brilliant

[jagged pier]

you shouldnt have low rage ever

or be struggling with SB uptime

at all right now

[hollow token]

Telling me I shouldn’t isn’t exactly helpful, though, lol? Clearly I know I shouldn’t or I wouldn’t have brought this up in the first place.

[ionic fern]

I think it's more meant as "What's the underlying issue which is causing you to have low rage".

[blazing condor]

charge weave

and intervene ofc

shouldnt be a problem if you do those correctly

[hollow token]

That’s what I’m gathering. I haven’t been

[prisma crane]

even without charge weaving/reprisal you should have enough rage with current talents to have max SB uptime

[runic tundra]

no joke, if you have low rage, pull bigger

[urban portal]

^

[hollow token]

For intervene, I have to target a party member, right?

[outer solstice]

depends on the dungeon

[prisma crane]

yes

[hollow token]

Good time for a mousover macro perhaps?

[prisma crane]

if you like, yea, although i just use a macro for charge/intervene together

[runic tundra]

i you want to full fire and forget with intervene just make a party1 macro

[outer solstice]

I have bad experiences with intervene mouseover

[prisma crane]

that said i dont even have intervene talented now

[runic tundra]

/cast [@party1] intervene

though if you have it youre better off using it properly

[prisma crane]

specific target macro is risky

[blazing condor]

using a mouseover macro thats macro'd in together with charge is good

you can just spam it on the pull and it'll intervene someone eventually (if youre lazy)

or press party frames or whatever

[hollow token]

What does that look like?

[blazing condor]

there should be one in the guides

it used to be pinned

[hollow token]

I’d prefer to learn it properly, but I’ll try a macro as well

Thanks

[blazing condor]

i mean the only thing the macro really does is put Charge and Intervene on the same button

[odd tree]

its kinda a weird talent now. there may be a couple uses in pve, but it mostly feels like a pvp talent

[hollow token]

Not bad when button space is a premium

I’ll check it out.

And there will be no charge weaving in DF? Did I read that correctly a few lines up?

[prisma crane]

now that safeguard is gone i have to agree

[odd tree]

yup, safeguard was nice

[odd tree]

reprisal is gone, so no charge weaving

[prisma crane]

there's a few moments in dungeons where it can be invaluable though, like 3rd boss in Necrotic Wake, melee didnt have to kite boss if you safeguard them

er

intervene alone was enough*

[lofty widget]

also first boss in that dungeon just completely negated the spit

[prisma crane]

yea, i just dont have enough familiarity yet with the DF dungeons to see if it's worth it situationally or not

[deep spruce]

Which dungeons have one hand weps? is it only streets and iron docks?

[lofty widget]

workshop too

[deep spruce]

ty

[odd tree]

i'll miss intervene on arms more tbh, used it in raid all the time to avoid mechanics

might grab it if the fight doesn't require storm bolt

[outer solstice]

I mean it's a personal movement talent if you need more

[sick sentinel]

I am not gonna miss banner that’s for sure

Stupid ass play style

[sturdy sable]

we play the same way with our without banner

rage in rage out as fast as possible

[sick sentinel]

Do you also TC on cd and possibly even DS with no target present just to cast IPs that you know will fall off before anything happens too

[lofty widget]

you dont do that with banner

dont need to

[sick sentinel]

Sometimes you do

[lofty widget]

no

[sick sentinel]

Ok lol

[lofty widget]

you can get 1 minute banners quite comfy atm, nome had a 4 min banner at one point even

[icy citrus]

Very well said.

The thing has always been that people create impressions according to the opinions of streamers who almost always (exceptional players aside) have a relatively bad view of the class considering that they haven't mastered it themselves.

[zealous willow]

What is hard abt dk what i missed

[strong forum]

the rotation is very unforgiving now

its not a prio list anymore, its literally a script you have to run

and if you step out of DnD you lose MASSIVE dps

dnd is basically BDKs banner

if you dont have it up, you deal like 30% less dmg

you want 95%+ uptime on it

[sturdy sable]

Oh its basically pallies concentration

But way more drastic

[strong forum]

pmuch

send it

its still a rage dump

[sturdy sable]

Yeah its odd going from actively managing block uptime to just sending it because it doesn't matter you have 100% now

Block uptime is a dps increase

Youd still send it to keep charges rolling

[strong forum]

if youre not at 24 seconds of SB

you wont lose value of pressin SB again

[radiant magnet]

it changes the feels

[cobalt grove]

Especially since it gives a charge of shield block if you spec into it. Defensive tools being on the gcd always feels weird.

[sturdy sable]

Yeah but its also a stun

Its an odd duck

You can make arguements for it being on and off the gcd

[cobalt grove]

I feel like the stun part should be a talent modifier and the shield block portion be default

[slow shale]

But that would involve more than just copy pasting old mechanics into the "New" Talent tree

[lofty widget]

you probably just wouldnt use a 2nd point on it then

we already have storm bolt for a st stun

[stray portal]

Is the ignore pain amount as important as luxthos's weakauras make it out to be? Could I replace it with a simple timer on ignore pain's duration?

[strong forum]

timer is irrelevant of IP

the simple absorb amount is enough to display

i dont like having it as a bar

i just have the text

its the 181k

[cobalt roost]

I like the bar. I need to check this out.

It is still something you can min max a little I guess.

[stray portal]

What does "timer is irrelevant of IP" mean?

I'm still at the point where I forget to press it for like 30 seconds at a time

[strong forum]

thats pretty bad then

IP is your defensive rage dump

press it to prevent overcapping of rage

[slow shale]

"The IP is going to get Punched off of you before the timer runs out" I think is the expectation for IP

[stray portal]

Ok, that makes sense. Do I just "feel" when to press revenge vs ignore pain? I'm not used to having prioritize damage vs defensiveness with my spenders.

[hazy bronze]

If you can ignore the pain for too long you're not taking enough pain

[strong forum]

when you have decent haste youll need to press both quite frequently

but yeah takes practice to know when youre about to generate alot of rage

its not quite black and white

[stray portal]

Okay. So I'll be pressing revenge, and using ignore pain if I expect a big influx of damage or I'm gcd locked and about to cap on rage.

ish

[strong forum]

yes

i myself generally send 1 IP when im ~60% rage

out of habit

im quite the aggressive IP user

thats my CPM of Lower kara

[stray portal]

I feel a little rage starved currently, but I'm 250 ilvl and probably not pressing my generators as quickly as I can.

[strong forum]

the goal is to generate and spend as much rage as you can

no

only in ultra aoe situations

[cobalt roost]

So crazy how often we can use Avatar

[strong forum]

thats pretty normal

has been like that since legion

[stray portal]

If you don't mind, Nomeratur, would you post a breakdown of your damage and healing?

[strong forum]

this is from lower kara where we accidentally pulled 130% count

34k dps

this is upper kara

20k dps

[cobalt roost]

Do you guys know why we can make the duration of Avatar longer with another Avatar or Shield Wall use but we can’t do the same with Shieldwall?

Is this bug or intended?

[strong forum]

it shouldnt be higher than like 3.% of your dmg

[stray portal]

Should I expect thunder clap and revenge to always be pretty close in damage? Or does it depend on target count.

[strong forum]

my nails dmg is so low cuz i play with 5 tanks

[strong forum]

should always be fairly close, the more pad heavy the dungeon is the more TC should slip ahead

i could prolly use TC a bit more often

[stray portal]

They're both soft target capped at 5 right?

[strong forum]

ye

but i suck at padding aoe idk

coulda done more dmg

[stray portal]

Gotcha. Thanks for the responses, they're super appreciated. I've played guardian druid and blood dk, but prot warrior has been more fun than both of them so far.

My feelings may change once I do harder content 😄

[strong forum]

doubt it

pwar is very user friendly now

[real fossil]

I feel like I hit ss so much more now

Prepatch vs shadowlands

[strong forum]

uuh

the only change regarding that is just that you get more auto attack speed

which means more deva procs

but other than that

its pretty much the same spec rotation wise

[mellow quartz]

Pwar is even easier in DF than it is in prepatch given the lower cpm requirement.

[stray portal]

Another important question: Given that this is my fury warrior's transmog, what's a good 1h and shield mog to match the aesthetic? Going for a "gnome raised by bears away from civilization" look.

[real fossil]

There is a fish 1 handed that could be of interest

[wind oak]

he looks like he want to murder everything on sight

[real fossil]

https://www.wowhead.com/item=163928/stinkrot-smasher

[stray portal]

That's amazing, thanks guys

[uneven mason]

There's something in the shop that would help that outfit

Most important part imo

[civic holly]

Im def SS a lot more now

[proven depot]

torn between vdh and pwarr for tanking in DF,what do you guys think?

[south osprey]

Hi guys- I've just returned to prot war for DF. Wondering if anyone could help me with these 2 questions:

1. "Slam" is this important to us and for our rotation ? It just seems like a waste of rage.

2. whirlwind - when should we use this? On how many plus targets?

[lofty widget]

unbind both you never use them

[uneven mason]

Literally asking this in the warrior discord

That's like walking into a fucking McDonald's and asking them where they think you should get lunch

[proven depot]

xD youre right i want to play warrior just want confirmation i guess

[uneven mason]

We're all about reinforcement here

[proven depot]

what if i ask them where to get ice cream?

[mellow quartz]

Asking prot warriors if you should play pwar over another tank 🤔

[uneven mason]

They sell ice cream bro

[proven depot]

their ice cream machine is always broken thu

[uneven mason]

But it's still on the menu

[mighty valley]

they'd probably say "try another mcdonalds"

and it would be broken there too

[mellow quartz]

See pins

[uneven mason]

No on both

You're never going to use those

They're in our spell book due to the great unpruneing troll

[urban portal]

Imo if 2 specs use a spell it should be in class

[south osprey]

Thank you. I haven't been, but tried them for one dungeon and thought surely blizz are trolling. You've just confirmed my thoughts lol

[uneven mason]

Where blizzard did literally nothing of impact besides unhide some useless spells per spec and expected a cookie for it

Great unpruneing could've been bringing back the 3 old big CDs

But no they gave fury and arms shield shit and prot WW and slam

Crap well literally never use

[south osprey]

Tbh, I'm not too bothered it's less keybinds. They just need to nerf us and get it over with

[pallid quiver]

I think we should be able to use slam as an oGCD offensive rage dump for ST, fight me

[uneven mason]

They did

[pallid quiver]

we did get nerfed though we're unplayable now bro

5% revenge nerf

[uneven mason]

Reduced our damage by around 10%, put sc on GCD

[south osprey]

When did they nerf?

[south osprey]

Sc?

[uneven mason]

Shield charge

[outer solstice]

do you guys think barbaric training is worth it?

[median tulip]

and 10% TClap

[south osprey]

So damage nerfs only?

[dawn blaze]

everyone quick, switch mains

[outer thorn]

on 60 on my warr with no leggo and no covenant I still feel like i have rage coming out of every orifice of my body all the time anyway

[outer solstice]

need to hit more IP

[odd tree]

yup, f tier now

[uneven mason]

We're probably not going to see much nerfing defensively

[south osprey]

The damage nerfs are a bit unusual tbh, because we were not the highest hitting tank. If they keep the nerfs away fro our defence I will still main prot

[uneven mason]

But we are the fotm sadly

[south osprey]

Indeed

[uneven mason]

So they will hammer on us until the rerollers go back to vdh

Or brn, whatever end up taking less effort

[proven depot]

hey im still here

[outer thorn]

while I really like the frailty system on VDH i didnt feel comfortable with how soul fragments work

[stable cradle]

Fotm in pre patch, hope viability heads into df release

[median tulip]

this is why we should hype up how bad the nerf is. Get the FOTM chaser to go away

[odd tree]

nope, no longer viable, buff prot

[stable cradle]

True, buff prot

[modern brook]

where are new patch notes T-T

[uneven mason]

Where they always are

[naive sinew]

so.. would you take shockwave over uproar?

makesTR align with avatar cd

?

or not worth it

[uneven mason]

Do you need an ae stun?

[wind mortar]

Wich skill ppl use to pop explosives as a mouseover ?

[naive sinew]

2 seconds seem a little underwhelming

[strong forum]

heroic throw

[strong forum]

a stop is a stop

even if it was 0.2sec

it would fulfill its role

and ill play shockwave 99.9% of the time in m+

its too good not to have

uproar you only play in raid

[uneven mason]

It stops casts

The only problem and it's a small one most of the time, is that ae stuns sync the baddies auto attacks

[outer thorn]

I made a youtube thumbnail for you

[cobalt seal]

Yeah

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/838113932551258146/1040347760018337852/image.png

[median tulip]

xD

[open gazelle]

I didn’t even think we did a crazy amount of dam

Like it’s not at a bfa level imo

[uneven mason]

We don't but they see the masses flocking to us

[strong forum]

gotta make it -15% and -20%

that way it looks more important

or dont show any numbers

[silver yew]

or something way off like 90%

remember to use !!! a lot

[outer thorn]

the numbers are red and big though, scary

[uneven mason]

"Protection- reduced whirlwind damage by 98%"

[strong forum]

📉

[uneven mason]

Bloodthirsty healing for protection warriors removed

[strong forum]

negative leech

[open gazelle]

Where do you see that in the notes

[frank dirge]

Bloodsurge change new?

[strong forum]

yes they nerfed bloodsurge by 50%

[uneven mason]

Wtf dead

[mellow quartz]

Well 33%

[uneven mason]

Literally unplayable

[outer thorn]

@mellow quartz repeating, of course..

[strong forum]

depends how you look at it ye

bloodsurge used to be 50% better than it is now

or got nerfed by 33%

[uneven mason]

33% of 1 is 50% of 66% of 1

[mellow quartz]

Well we came from 15% down to 10 so 33%.

It’s abt 5% less rage over a key with a lot of aoe like AA.

[unkempt rover]

is prot really dead or are you guys all being sarcastic

[frank dirge]

I doubt the 5% reduction to surge will have a big effect. I’m keys maybe in raid it’s big but idk

[open gazelle]

Prot still bis

[uneven mason]

Looks pretty bad

[frank dirge]

90% sarcastic is my guess

[uneven mason]

It's going to get worse

[frank dirge]

This won’t change much just can’t spam IP as much lol. Still won’t need defensive stance prob

[mellow quartz]

Bloodsurge is a nerf to large aoe rage gen which is usually the situation you have no rage issues.

[unkempt rover]

I don't think it will

[uneven mason]

Once they start doing nerfs to prot

[odd tree]

definitely not viable, how will i complete my weekly 20s?!?!

[open gazelle]

Blood dk needs an aoe buff imo

[uneven mason]

They don't stop until IP is on the GCD and we're at 40% sb uptime

[strong forum]

in raid you lose like 2% rage gen

in m+ 5%

itll just lower aoe dps a bit but nothing major

[uneven mason]

Flee while you can to bdk

[unkempt rover]

im doing like 45k dps overall in +10's

idm this nerf

[strong forum]

which key

[unkempt rover]

uhh it was

[frank dirge]

Yea and this shouldn’t change how tanky we are at all tbh so I think it’s fine. They are trying to curve the class not stomp it out it seems

[unkempt rover]

fok I don't remember

[strong forum]

cuz 45k in RLP is alot

45k in AA is very little

[uneven mason]

Paddington mechagon

[unkempt rover]

wasn't ruby

[uneven mason]

They're too tired after kicking guardian druids corps

Like they literally just made some changes that amount to pissing on the body

[strong forum]

well with these 3 nerfs, we're now definitely behind vdh dmg

[frank dirge]

Wouldn’t joke to much lol blizz can always hit us before raid and mythic opening

[unkempt rover]

It was AA, sadge

[mellow quartz]

Someone told the warrior dev to do something abt prot. And he was like ‘ok will do all this cool?’ And it’s 2-3% damage and 5% less rage.

[frank dirge]

Which I think is fine. We still beat them in overall defensiveness atleast that’s how I felt in my testing last week

[strong forum]

we lost 6% aoe dmg, now a 5% rage nerf in m+

so yeah

any more and itll be too much

[uneven mason]

I played 8.0 in mythic prog, I don't think they will ever get that bad again

[open gazelle]

The nerfs were tp@be expected so idc

[strong forum]

they were expected yes

[open gazelle]

I’m glad our gameplay isn’t being changed is all I care about

[strong forum]

but dont do any more

[open gazelle]

I hate when they fuck with actual cds

[strong forum]

1 thing they can do is nerf SS by a few % as we're probably still st king

but we're now closer to bdk dmg than vdh dmg in m+

still fine, obviously

[mellow quartz]

Assuming battle stance

[strong forum]

assuming bstance

[frank dirge]

That’s the only thing I worry about. Them wanting to force us into DStance

Attaching threat gen to it or something or reducing something else

[outer thorn]

still better than being forced into bear stance

[frank dirge]

I honestly thought bear was alright numerically it’s just crap to play but maybe I’m wrong I didn’t test it at all

And it’s builds are also crap

[uneven mason]

Prepatch it's rocking, df once they're removed from borrowed power

[elder bay]

https://tenor.com/view/angry-throw-getout-mad-upset-gif-4961525

[uneven mason]

They do sadpanda level damage

[somber shell]

Is there a guide that recommends the best opener for say, pulling a typical group or two in M+? I'm newish to the spec but pretty experienced playing prot paladin and some brew.

[open gazelle]

Has vdh always been good on the damage side of things?

[somber shell]

Like what should I spend my first 2-3 GCDs on after charge? Right now I'm feeling like maybe I shoudl rely on demo shout after charge to generate rage and avoid taking big hits with no IP or SB up.

[outer thorn]

https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classes/warrior/protection/rotation-cooldowns-pve-tank

[rich lake]

Damn this outburst bug fucking sucks

[open gazelle]

I usually charge clap ss sb clap again

Free revenge if available

[somber shell]

I worry clap doesn't generate enough threat if you have mongo DPS

[open gazelle]

The Goal is get sb up asap while doing ape dam

Aoe dam

[somber shell]

but I'm only like iLvl 265 right now, so that might be the problem too 🙂

[fast knot]

If your dps can't hold themselves for like 2-3 globals

they better be a Ret

[open gazelle]

Yup

I have that same problem but on my bdk

[somber shell]

I mained a marks hunter in S2 and these idiot hunters now... I had 2 in a group and neither cast MD on me once in a gambit 15.

[fast knot]

Fuck em let them die

[open gazelle]

Dps need to chill while a bdk is pulling

[somber shell]

Prot pally has it easy with the initial pull, avenger shield / divine toll / sotr is really strong threat.

[fast knot]

Fury is going to be an absolute cruise missile for threat gen and I've told both of my guildies that I will let them die if they go full Rambo off the rip

[somber shell]

Seems like fury has always been the worst with that

[fast knot]

they don't have BoP to save them either, it's unfortunate

[somber shell]

reason to bring a hunter or rogue hehe

[open gazelle]

I love rogues man, can’t play one but I appreciate them

[strong forum]

bdk has alot of burst now

alot of burst

[naive sinew]

they get buffed?

[strong forum]

their dmg isnt just bloodboil and dots anymore

they get like 3-4 offensive CDs now

[strong forum]

no, its just dragonflight bdk

tombstone is a huge offensive CD now

[outer thorn]

Imagine if overcapping bone shields would burst the old shileld, that capstone would be nuts

[strong forum]

then your entire rotation would just be death's caress

bloodboil to apply dots

and just deaths caress 24/7

[somber shell]

brm has some nice AOE dmg now but holy cow they feel squishy

[strong forum]

brm is dmg king on beta

unrivaled

and by unrivaled i mean literally ahead by over 40%

[naive sinew]

saw equinox do like 97k on a beta key

[outer thorn]

I tried prot pala but it was mind numbing, flet like a "press the glowy button" spec, then I remembered King is also under Activision and theres a non 0% chance a Candy Crush dev designed the spec

[naive sinew]

🤣

[mellow quartz]

Even he was surprised abt all the procs he got padding the adds at the tree boss lol

[naive sinew]

yeah the burst was insane doing over 500k

lol

[mellow quartz]

Killing those smallies doesn’t really matter though as you still have the 3 big guys left alive.

[misty moth]

Yeah they really feel like you're fighting for your life

[naive sinew]

hell yeah live on the edge

[somber shell]

oh man it's crazy, I did the FOTM thing and created a prot warrior last week and at around iLvl 250 it felt tankier and more stable than my 296 BRM at times.

I just hate the lack of self sustain on brew right now, despite them getting a couple healing talents

[strong forum]

[open gazelle]

Out of my 15 years of playing wow prot war has been the most fun

[misty moth]

Even while leveling. You have to actively be using all your tools to not get destroyed. On warrior you can probably never press shield block and only IP and be more than fine

[somber shell]

yeah it's nuts

[open gazelle]

I’m sad I didn’t start playing it til legion

Arms legion war was really fun too

[somber shell]

prot pally is similar.. I don't think I'm killable in world content, and that's with basically ignoring any CD and just using an occasional word of glory heal

[open gazelle]

My hpal feels like that but better, literally ant die but does less dam

[somber shell]

yep

[plush saffron]

I had a 10 minute Soleah fight at +18 this week because the rest of the party died at 50% but stayed alive as a prot pal

so pal is good to do stuff like that

[sturdy sable]

You can do that on a warrior as well

[plush saffron]

Have you done it?

[somber shell]

lol yes! early S4 this happened a lot, like on the endboss in grimrail, I felt like a hero

[sturdy sable]

Yes

Lol

[plush saffron]

crazy how you got the same exact circumstances as me

[somber shell]

Warrior has a 30% heal on a 25s CD, IP, last stand, shielf wall, lots of leech.. seeems possible

[steep condor]

anyone play/played prot as venthyr? Wondering if it's any good - have switched to venth to try arms and hate switching covenant all the time between specs.

[plush saffron]

except the part where you're not attacking the boss

[sturdy sable]

Its almost like we play the same game

[plush saffron]

you're full of it

old two sheds

[chrome falcon]

nope venth is horrifically awful as prot

venthyr is very close to having no covenant at all on prot

[steep condor]

i suspected as much

k thanks @chrome falcon

[uneven mason]

Never how scuffed their xmogs are

Legitimately I can get behind the kyrian xmog more than periwinkle bat boys

[grave crane]

The problem with venth is that thier covenant ability is a rage spender and the covenant conduit is super dogshit. It just makes prot feel worse if you try to use the covenant ability

[grave crane]

Venthyr mog is way better than kyrian

[uneven mason]

It's too much bat, not enough gothic horror

And the glows are horrible colors

[somber shell]

SL design team pumped out a lot of scuffed mogs, to be fair..

[modern brook]

`i play venth prot cause of exactly that

[somber shell]

check out any of the mail sets for example

[modern brook]

you basically odnt have a cov

[uneven mason]

Maldraxxus mail set is probably the 2nd best shaman xmog in the game

[somber shell]

lol, oops I was thinking of the leather set

and honestly that image makes it look way better than it does in game, particularly with a smaller race 😂

[uneven mason]

Yeah idk the fuck that is

[chrome falcon]

you look at that set and it's like

"woah that's cool"

then you think about it for 2 seconds

and realise you'd actually have to wear it

[uneven mason]

Leather sets are traditionally garbage

[uneven mason]

I've never once thought that about that set

I saw it and was like, they hired someone who sees art in dog vomit

[strong forum]

I'll say 1 thing

Skyhold is saved

[uneven mason]

Even if we have to kill odyn?

Because I'm going to if given the chance

[zinc trellis]

dragon boss in jade temple is spam casting her jade abilities now

[uneven mason]

Did they announce more warrior nerf?

[strong forum]

You'll see what I mean soon tm

[limpid anchor]

yea, max ip reduced, sb higher cd & ravager dmg nerf

[uneven mason]

K, back to bfa is it

Horrible thing is they could scuff sb cd and we'd just take more block talents

[strong forum]

Nah pwar isn't being touched again

For now*

[uneven mason]

Because we're not using all of them

[somber shell]

so.. still fotm?

[uneven mason]

No, go to vdh

[sturdy sable]

^

I hear bdk is popping off

[uneven mason]

It really io

[limpid anchor]

i hear pwar is the most busted atm

pwar prob like 30% more dps than vdh

twice as tanky, at least

[strong forum]

Now you're memeing

[uneven mason]

Lol

Not even

[strong forum]

Vdh was ahead of pwar, now with the nerfs is firmly ahead

[somber shell]

where do you see the tuning notes

[strong forum]

Once all pwars have to play in dstance most of the time, we'll be overtaken by 2-3 tanks

In dmg output

[limpid anchor]

just trust me bro

[mellow quartz]

we will see how vdh turns out tbh. saw it get slapped on the tree boss on an 18 tyr

[limpid anchor]

see

bdk dps buff

[strong forum]

Not just vdh alyrion 🙂

[limpid anchor]

are they #1 now

[mellow quartz]

well everything but prot warrior

🙂

[strong forum]

There it is

Bdk buffs

Bdk now better than pwar

Enjoy

[limpid anchor]

actual big buffs

[strong forum]

Yes

Vdh=bdk>pwar

[somber sky]

mr nom

[strong forum]

I'm not even joking

[limpid anchor]

nom what was your highest key in beta?

[uneven mason]

That's insane

[strong forum]

15

[uneven mason]

Bdk didn't need buffs

[somber sky]

the post about pre-expansion phase 2 stuff.. Is that basically a summary of what's been done? Or was there something new? I didn't notice anything.

[limpid anchor]

no they didnt, but people are shit

https://www.wowhead.com/news/class-tuning-on-dragonflight-beta-11-10-blood-dk-guardian-druid-and-resto-shaman-329839?webhook

thats new

[uneven mason]

But I'll say it again

Bdk is always safe

They never get nerfed

[limpid anchor]

and like half of it was already ingame? its not very clear

warrior nerfs were already in

[strong forum]

It's a mix of both

[chrome falcon]

mmmmm that TnC buff for guardian

[limpid anchor]

besiodes the new tc rev nerf

[chrome falcon]

is nice

[mellow quartz]

they nerfed bdk self sustain a tad

[strong forum]

Doesn't matter

Bdk is now only 90% immortal

[limpid anchor]

did you see their self sustain

[strong forum]

Instead of 100% immortal

[grave crane]

I 100% have no problem with bdk or veng being “ahead” of us and those buffs are pretty big for bdk and bear

[strong forum]

My issue is

That bdk now does more dmg

Than a pwar in b-stance

In real content, pwar won't sit in b-stance, thus naturally nerfed by 13%

[toxic pewter]

Bdk meta again had a feeling this would happen

🤮

[grave crane]

Yeah that is fair tbh we probably didn’t need any actual damage nerfs

[strong forum]

Yes we didn't

[jagged pier]

the nerfs make even less sense now with the buffs to bdk

blizz literally trolling because they dont understand what the issues are

[toxic pewter]

Still don’t understand why a single 1 out of 38 specs can be immortal and people scream when you point it out

[uneven mason]

It's a wash actually they're self sustain is the same due to the damage increases being approximately in line with the leech reduction

[limpid anchor]

i just hope they change the stances

both of them suck

and changing them would fix arms as well

[uneven mason]

They are what they are just ignore them

[toxic pewter]

Bdk self sustain isn’t nerfed at all

[limpid anchor]

they are not meaaning full

which is sad

[toxic pewter]

It’s stronger than ever for a person that knows how to play bdk well

[uneven mason]

They're passive buffs, they're not supposed to be

[modern brook]

didnt they get nuked in BFA s2

[woven trellis]

anyone doing beta key that can explain to me how to handle the treepop on academy 3rd boss, even if we stack my team always die at 2nd or 3nd pop from add that are too widespread anyway

[limpid anchor]

they are not passive buffs. you shoul switch between them

they should be a bit differnt

and not a 3% crit and 10% moe impair redcution

[uneven mason]

Kinda if you were bad, they just made it so you had to push buttons

[mellow quartz]

nah the leech is whatever on bdk, the % of damage taken is the vast vast majority of their healing, its not like leech on pwar

[uneven mason]

You use battle stance unless you need more defense, idk what else you want without just making them another cd button

[knotty idol]

We were too happy about pwar being strong, we flew too close to the sun

[uneven mason]

Too many fotm rerollers

Go back to your bdks and vdh and oh look BRM buffs

[strong forum]

Too many people overhyped pwar

And downplayed bdk too much

[grave crane]

As Is the cycle of things

[strong forum]

And this is what you get

Bdk overbuffed

[mellow quartz]

do you have a log of someone actually playing bdk well in a beta key atm? I am curious to see if they can get those dps numbers in challenging content

[strong forum]

Only log I have is a triple tank log

And I only beat the bdk by 14k dps in AA because I stole threat

[grave crane]

I mean they’re losing the infinite dancing runs weapon so they should be taking more damage than us?

[strong forum]

Not 14, 12k

[toxic pewter]

Been calling for bdk to be nerfed on wow beta forums this entire time

Self sustain specifically

[knotty idol]

Bdk does more dmg as content gets harder tho no? And pwar needs to swap to dstance and loses dmg

[strong forum]

That doesn't matter

[uneven mason]

Bdk always takes more damage than us

[mellow quartz]

bdk has always had the same issue, self sustain monsters until they do content they get 1 shot in

[strong forum]

But like I did 60k,the bdk did 48k, when I stole threat and pad

This was before our nerfs

And before bdk buffs

And in b-stance ofc

So as content gets higher and d-stance uptime gets higher

Bdk will take the lead

By a significant margin

[mellow quartz]

dont see multiple tank keys being representative tbh, rather wanna see actual logs to back up these 'x does more'

[strong forum]

How are they not

[mellow quartz]

if you dont take damage you just send all rage on revenge instead of IP, if you take damage you will have to spend less on revenge etc

[strong forum]

No you dont

Lmao

[limpid anchor]

if you take dmg the heal heals it :D

[uneven mason]

People who never played pwar before picked it up and was like omg this is fun and tanky, as if it was a New thing that warriors were fun and tanky

[strong forum]

Rotation doesn't change if you actively tank or not on pwar

You actually deal less damage

As pwar in 5tanj

Cuz you don't get rage from being hit

I did 59k in AA15 with 1 full wipe on vexamus and normal comp

And 60k in AA10 with triple tank

Without a wipe

[knotty idol]

What are the odds DF launches and people see the real state of pwar and they actually get buffed up again?

[grave crane]

Well maybe we can get unnerfed and they can tune our damage to us being in d stance

[jagged pier]

thats nice coming down to 55k or 50k in dstance where thats the dps that bdk was doing already

[strong forum]

Low

[limpid anchor]

thinking that they buff tanks during season :D

[jagged pier]

KEKW

[grave crane]

I can dream

[limpid anchor]

the pwar dream is over

time to go home

back to vdh and bdk

[jolly inlet]

Well next time just pretend the class is really bad so you avoid being nerfed

[grave crane]

On the plus side all FOTM rerollers will leave so give and take

[jagged pier]

we didnt say anything about the class u can thank streamers and YTs for saying it because they cant play the other tanks correctly

bdk was fine when played correctly

[chrome falcon]

y'all are being fuckin doomers and i'm here for it

[jagged pier]

but none of them could play it correcly

[jolly inlet]

Pwar still fine

[lone eagle]

Kinda surprised no Brew magic damage buffs and that druid didn't get 3 point > 2 point talent conversion in their class tree

[jolly inlet]

The dk buffs arnt even that major

[solid sun]

P.war still fun as heck

[jagged pier]

no a 10-12% aura buff isnt major at all

when the already do the same damage as us in bstance pre nerf

[toxic pewter]

Yep the fotm YouTubers did this

[lone eagle]

Keep in mind

[toxic pewter]

Nonstop say bdk was bad

[jagged pier]

now when content actually means something we will be around 15-20% behind because we will be in dtance

[lone eagle]

The aura buff is only on DS

The rest are % AP buffs

[raven hatch]

how do we check damage done to shield on tyrannical iron docks in warcraft logs? is there a way?

[lone eagle]

The relative buff to DS is something like, 4%

If those notes are written correctly

[primal crypt]

what race should I be now

I dont think I stay orc

[sudden palm]

Does rend only gets applied to 5 targets per TC cast?

[modern brook]

Like durability damage or amount blocked

Cause for the latter it's in logs under B

And for the former like why

[modern brook]

Orc or die

[sick sentinel]

What's the final tought on the few warrior nerf btw? sorry if it was asked multiple times

[modern brook]

UG ZUG

[modern brook]

Scroll up

[sick sentinel]

up to where 😄

[modern brook]

Like 30 minutes

It's basically the entire conversation for the last hour or so

Tldr: unneeded nerf, feels bad considering bdk buffs

[toxic pewter]

Still insane the single spec out of 38 that is literally immortal just got broad and strong buffs…. Legit crazy to me

[strong forum]

In isolation the nerfs aren't bad

But if you consider the bdk buffs, they're unwarranted

[toxic pewter]

They have to do something about the self sustain then

[prisma crane]

blizz hates warr, loves BDK, that simple

[toxic pewter]

Like why does this keep happening

They can’t die

Like no one talks about this

It’s insanity

[solid sun]

No one talks about it? Lol

[jolly inlet]

The real question is do you play vdh or bdk now

[prisma crane]

since i only play prot warr i'm just gonna stick to complaining lmao

[sick sentinel]

i've read the past hour, thank you 😄

[lyric elm]

Did we get nerfed?

[modern brook]

❤️

[prisma crane]

ultimately if balance remains the same we'll be fine, just annoying AF to see BDKs remain the golden child

(i dont like bdks)

[elder bay]

just wait for Bear to sneak up

[sick sentinel]

i REALLY dont want to play bdk ever again in a season

-_-

[lyric elm]

Vdh looks fun at least

[modern brook]

Every group I've ever played with that requested I play a specific tank has the same 4 to 5 dps standing in simple dodge mechanics, wiping the raid for 60 pulls during progression

[agile elbow]

Bdk is alright for me but it's so slow

[violet violet]

anyone mind inking the post for the nerds?

nerfs

[modern brook]

So like until prot warrior is the reason you aren't progressing, just don't not play it if you don't want to

[prisma crane]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/class-tuning-hotfixes-on-dragonflight-beta-11-9-protection-warrior-nerfs-fury-329819

https://www.wowhead.com/beta/news/class-tuning-on-dragonflight-beta-11-10-blood-dk-guardian-druid-and-resto-shaman-329839#comments

[sick sentinel]

for me BDK is just too slow and i hate the "one shot" aspect that can happen sometimes (or close to it), also never liked their mitigation aspect (marrowend)

[violet violet]

ty ❤️

[limpid anchor]

Slow? Like movement,

[primal crypt]

https://tenor.com/view/guess-ill-die-gif-9704573

[jagged pier]

u can play whatever race u like the best it doesnt matter

[pallid quiver]

moo

[prisma crane]

pretty much, yea

[modern brook]

He likes orcs the best

😠

[prisma crane]

ztroll ftw, height > all

[modern brook]

Nice shoes hippie

[prisma crane]

well if im honest they also have little baby hips too

[pallid quiver]

the fuck are shoes i only get ankle rings

[sick sentinel]

Yea

[prisma crane]

but i can dream they cross ztrolls with those big hulk trolls

[limpid anchor]

You got the sprint thingy for every movement now

Pretty nice

No dashes, but kinda fast on beta

[modern brook]

Beat part of ztroll is gonk

[toxic pewter]

Yah honestly speed prot warr is a thing in df. Can get really fast default movement speed if you really want to

With all the enchants and stuff

[fresh pike]

Anyone have a spell reflect weakaura for beta dungeons?

[prisma crane]

it's called non-goldfish memory

🙂

[fresh pike]

Good one...

[sturdy sable]

Also not wrong

Theres a spreadsheet in the pins

[prisma crane]

there's also generally only a handful of truly useful areas to use SR outside of general just, spell cast on me, let's reflect it, or spell DR

and those areas are in that spreadsheet Dosequis mentioned

[hard vessel]

So if BDK got buffed like this warriors are maybe safe 🙂

[pallid quiver]

uh

we're talking about the buffs because we got nerfed

[hard vessel]

But minor nerf

[pallid quiver]

and bdk was around our level, if not possibly better

[hard vessel]

Ye but technically warrior lvl

90% will simply not being able to put out these numbers as dk

[pallid quiver]

so you're saying warriors, the second best tank of Season 3 and 4 of Shadowlands, should've been buffed?

[hard vessel]

No

I'm just saying warriors might not get nerfed more

[pallid quiver]

but "90%" of warriors weren't able to put out those numbers, either

There's no guarantee on that, since they already chose to adjust two classes close on relative power senses

[hard vessel]

Ye and guess what? Warrior was garbage in community perception in s3

[prisma crane]

season 4

season 3

experienced players here will know we obviously werent shit, but let's be real about "second best"

[pallid quiver]

we didn't die to jailer like monks, we did the second most amount of damage,

[prisma crane]

fwiw i think that M+ balance is more important than raid balance

[pallid quiver]

i mean we obviously were nowhere near dk tho

[prisma crane]

raids teams can compensate a lot more

[pallid quiver]

class was cruise control

[hard vessel]

Warrior in s3 were giga insane

But still ja joke compared to bdk

[pallid quiver]

if execute phase lasted long enough we did more ST damage 🙂

[prisma crane]

yes, if perfect scenarios are met we're great

if there's a massive hit that's 100% blockable, if there's a massive reflect that they let us actually reflect, etc

[marble cipher]

S3 (and probably S4) DK was faceroll spec though, with tier carrying everyone that played it.
With that gone, there's going to be way less people that can actually pull out the numbers a DK can theoretically do (I would guess, I honestly haven't looked at DK dragonflight playstyle as I don't plan on playing one)

[lone eagle]

alright boys

[prisma crane]

we can play if all we want

[lone eagle]

FoTM convince me to swap BDK

[pallid quiver]

be an undead dk

die twice in character creation

have no one trust in your ability to live an encounter because you fucking died twice before ever even logging in with that character, man, what the hell?

[molten fjord]

is there a weakaura that shows you what you can spell reflect ?

[toxic pewter]

What’s it called if you only play the “worst ranked” spec

Like what’s the opposite of fotm

[pallid quiver]

hipster

[toxic pewter]

Ok ya that me

[pallid quiver]

Or sometimes known to the general community as "dumbfuck", but I can't say I agree with that usage

[lusty tiger]

APB a hipster heard first here

[toxic pewter]

Ya I m proud dumb fuck hipster

[lusty tiger]

LMFAO

[toxic pewter]

I crush all fotmers

[ornate thunder]

Are people seriously that worried about the nerfs, it's like a feather dropping on you, we're not shaman

[toxic pewter]

Na prot warr still strong. I am leaving prot warr this time though not because of power but I just find it way too easy now

I’m gonna play brew prob

[lusty tiger]

is brew still top aoe dam?

[toxic pewter]

Ya prob

[lusty tiger]

yAProB

is how i read that for some reason

[toxic pewter]

Lmao

[elder bay]

Guardian Druid

[toxic pewter]

Yah whatever is weakest I will main

[knotty idol]

But guardian druid has incarn

[tidal quail]

Prot pally currently, I would think, after the bear buffs

[next elbow]

any prot andy who can tell me how m+ breakdown should look like

[steel mist]

its not even a buff, its still shit

its a 3-4% downgrade in dps

[tidal quail]

yeah I don't even know tbh, I played bear some in s2 this xpac, and it would need to be above bdk s3/4 levels of op to make me go back to it

[naive sinew]

prot pally just needs a wog buff and they're pretty solid..lol

[vast rivet]

Am I reading this correctly? Did they buff BDK damage and nerf prot damage?

[naive sinew]

correct

[wary heath]

with the new nerfs, you guys thinking about taking Defender's Aegis + Immovable Object? instead of unstoppable force / impenetrable wall

nom sensei

[edgy bone]

Why is stun grenade and so'leahs above annhylds OWS?

just because a lot of ppl dont raid?

[toxic pewter]

more dam I guess

[edgy bone]

how

OWS is more haste than soleahs and annhyelds is damage beast

[blazing condor]

Aegis is not a dps trinket

It does damage comparatively to other very defensive trinkets

But its not better than any damage trinkets

[daring marlin]

[wary heath]

is the sidearm buff referring to the talent called sidearm, or is there something else

[next elbow]

should i just spam shield slam on proc, rav to spend and thunderclap to refresh dots ?

[vast rivet]

You should check the pins.

[naive sinew]

so much doom and gloom everywhere i go in regards to pwar nerfs

lol

[lime granite]

Hey gamers, levelling a prot purely for m+. What would be the best class for high keys (ally)?

[mortal brook]

warrior is the best class for high keys as a prot

[naive sinew]

vdh

[lime granite]

Sorry lmao *race

[mortal brook]

race is all situationals. with affixes like necrotic going away, play whatever race you think looks best

[ocean bloom]

should we play around the DF 2p bonus? like trying to maintain uptime or should we just take what we get from our usual

[toxic pewter]

Yah alliance races all pretty good. I know most people like dwarves, night elf, kt human

Or even regular human is pretty popular

[paper coral]

bear buffs?

[mortal brook]

bear got buffed all the way to still worst tank

[naive sinew]

are the pwar nerfs live?

or only on beta?

[cobalt seal]

Did tyou read the notes

[summer eagle]

Cro you could just answer the question homie

[mortal brook]

without sass? he'd explode

[summer eagle]

true

[paper coral]

Thanks. I read the notes on the pwarr "nerf". am I weird for not thinking thats enough to change the balance necessarily?

[naive sinew]

I read the notes

[cobalt seal]

Teach a man how to fish instead of giving him the fish

[cobalt seal]

The notes say. Either beta or live

[naive sinew]

yeah i just saw that

[summer eagle]

Bro you are fr just toxic for no reason half the time xd

[cobalt seal]

Yes

But next time that person will look better

Making my mission a sucess

[edgy bone]

Why is worldkiller iris necklace even good? it's not any more stats, just more evenly distributed

[summer eagle]

There are definitely ways of doing that without being rude tho

[naive sinew]

ill ask again next time

[naive sinew]

don't worry about it..lol

tnx though

[sturdy sable]

People like cro are needed to weed out the weak

[naive sinew]

and you are?

never heard of you

[sturdy sable]

👋

Oh ive been here

[naive sinew]

https://tenor.com/view/leslie-jordan-leslie-belly-dancing-belly-dance-dancing-gif-25526487

[sturdy sable]

Howd you get this video of myself off my computer?!

[naive sinew]

ezpz

[royal lance]

is Liu Flameheart in Temple of Jade Serpent (Panda/Dragon Boss) hardly overtuned? The 70% Phase is kicking ass rn

[sturdy sable]

It slaps yeah

Rotate defensive and have ip capped

And clench

[royal lance]

and no routing choice in this dungeon also. kinda sucks 😐

[cobalt seal]

There is skip options

So in the end you kinda have routing choices

[zealous willow]

So they buff dk dmg and druids again , we slowly going to last place 🤡

From top to bottom baby

[cobalt seal]

Sure

Ofc

Who cares if pwar isnt first in dmg

(Already wasnt tbf)

[paper coral]

I want to be the tankiest mofo on the block.

Damage is nice, but i want smooth damage intake.

[mellow quartz]

the nerf to last boss in RLP seems to finally have hit the mark

for the group damage

[rich lake]

Prot Warrior dream dead confirmed

Told you all earlier, Guardian is going to be fotm tank

[weak escarp]

prot still hard fotm

[rich lake]

Is wowhead getting ddos attacked or something?

[main vault]

Wanna share hot take Thursday with you guys

[crude notch]

Nexii what you settle on for DF? Decide yet?

[main vault]

Naw, missing first 2-3 weeks for school so have a bit of extra time anyways

I only have it narrowed down to "not" classes

[mellow quartz]

lol beta crashed

[narrow jay]

Is it worth it to take all the execute talents? I find it does way less dmg for us now in pre patch

[mellow quartz]

server unstable 15min shutdown, server unstable 0.5s shurtdown all at the same second lol

[crude notch]

New update is why

[paper coral]

I wonder what their evidence is for that.

[narrow jay]

By that I mean the synergy between sudden death, massacre and juggernaut

[mellow quartz]

wouldnt call it 'server unstable' then lol

[fossil sigil]

when did they put shield charge on gcd

[mellow quartz]

and its a release candidate now so all they push are hotfixes, not new builds etc

[sick sentinel]

Yesterday

[main vault]

@paper coralthere isnt a reason, "critical thinking"

[mellow quartz]

the whole valdrakken server has disappeared, unstable crash lol

[fossil sigil]

those bastards

[hollow token]

https://tenor.com/view/leslie-nielsen-well-shit-welp-oops-gif-17437845

[sick sentinel]

Valdrakken disappears during updates, yes.

[mellow quartz]

all servers disappear during updates, the other 2 are fine

its back now though

[sick sentinel]

No, Valdrakken alone will disappear during updates sometimes because it's not the same type of server.

[mellow quartz]

yes but all the other servers will be offline and the whole thing is offline for 3-4 hours when they roll out beta builds

[sick sentinel]

There is no beta builds though.

[mellow quartz]

I know its a release candidate so just hotfixes from now on

[sick sentinel]

Endgame servers are treated differently, period. Is the point.

[mellow quartz]

server was taken offline due to being unstable

[sick sentinel]

Anyways.

[paper coral]

SO that particular thing doesn't help ME because those are the classes I enjoy the most play-style wise

[sand pebble]

arent they getting ready for some dev craft off against players or something on it though

[paper coral]

so i'm torn between VDH and prot war

[radiant magnet]

'craft with blues' on Valdrakkan

basically mass bug test crafting orders

[sand pebble]

yeah gotta clean the trash before 'blues' get on there

[sand pebble]

soleahs is more haste upfront and fight length being alot faster atm means you dont get enough value out of the higher ows haste - stun grenade is a huge damage increase during cooldowns and it acts defensively in that it buffs other things

then again in keys if you can keep ows stacked for the enitre run it holds more value

[main vault]

@paper coralthe point was he is full of shit

[paper coral]

I mean, VDH is tanky. I just dont know if it's as tanky as prot. It has more leech tho maybe?

[hybrid peak]

If you aren't maintaining OWS in keys, you shouldn't need to worry about trinket choice all too much

[cobalt seal]

Its not even close

Pwar is just the tankiest tank

[uneven mason]

I mean.....this has always been the case..it's nothing new, just you can be tanky without having more than 10 braincells now.

[sick sentinel]

what

[narrow sparrow]

Tank

[plush tendon]

Which trinkets in beta are we liking?

[chrome falcon]

lol did they just nerf execute?

wtf they did

we're catching strays

because they're nerfing execute for arms

and it's hitting us too

[fast knot]

I didn't even have it on my bar 🤣

[chrome falcon]

@cobalt seal did vdh need these buffs

[cobalt seal]

Its not buffs lol

Its a nerf to dmg

Wowhead writer was drink8ng

[chrome falcon]

wdym

[pallid quiver]

Did they reverse the numbers or something?

[fast knot]

But the Fiery Brand damage though

😏

[cobalt seal]

Check the vulne change

That nerf is way bigger than the dmg buffs

[chrome falcon]

oh

[pallid quiver]

ah, didn't see that one

[chrome falcon]

ok

to refer to my previous question

did vdh need this nerf

[cobalt seal]

Maybe

It doesnt

Considering they buffed bdk

To do more dmg than vdh pre nerf

[pallid quiver]

they did because they could be construed as better than BDK, and blizz don't like that

BDK top 1 tank

[cobalt seal]

[pallid quiver]

or bust

[vestal sage]

What did they do to battle scarred veteran? I never understand how to read these things pepedent

[pallid quiver]

they need it to be bdk top 1, no debate

[odd tree]

All over the place with these changes

[pallid yarrow]

I want to know this too

[oak echo]

it looks like it's just a tooltip clarification. no functional change

[limpid kite]

now requires prot spec

[ocean bloom]

does it give a debuff yet lol

[chilly brook]

???

wtf lmao

[halcyon oracle]

That's not a nerf they gain overall damage

[chilly brook]

VDH got buffed across the board

[chrome falcon]

cro lying?

[cobalt seal]

No they didnt

[chrome falcon]

say it ain't so

[chilly brook]

How are they going to nerf execute though when it's actually not even good

[oak echo]

they cut frailty in half

[chrome falcon]

the execute nerf is wild i have 0 understanding of what that's about

[cobalt seal]

If people played like shit and didnt manage frailty stscks its a buff

People that played frailty properly

Its like 5-10% nerf

[limpid kite]

someone at blizz dont like executie

[pallid quiver]

It feels so bad seeing Execute be less than 100% attack power

[devout pewter]

yes of course, let's buff the dh who already does damage of the discreet face, and we nerf even more the warrior who seems to me normal damage at the moment ... and then we leave the monk as he is, which has a hallucinating damage burst

[chilly brook]

seeing execute just feels bad

[cobalt seal]

Vdh didnt get buff

Good lord

[umbral cave]

Maybe we pin this one lol

[oak echo]

pin a VDH change in the warrior discord to stop the doomers

[chrome falcon]

ok so does frailty stack or something

[oak echo]

gross

[chrome falcon]

idk vdh

cringe class

[radiant magnet]

the same people who rage without understanding the changes, do not read pins

[chilly brook]

Frailty is damage amp

it got cut in half

from 8% to 4%

[chrome falcon]

ok how can that be a 10% nerf

[limpid kite]

vdh got chance to try other playstyle than frailty stacking

[chilly brook]

but everything else in their toolkit got buffed

[cobalt seal]

Because it stacks

[chilly brook]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[cobalt seal]

[chrome falcon]

ok thought so

[cobalt seal]

Nice one

But no

[umbral cave]

It’s too good. It’ll be the play for sure. It’s actually a cool mechanic

[chrome falcon]

is the increase to frailty duration relevant at all

[cobalt seal]

For 10% or 5%

[chrome falcon]

i wonder if blizz is trying to make it a power neutral change

[chilly brook]

wait

[cobalt seal]

So please stop spreading misinformation

[chilly brook]

blood got buffed

?

[chrome falcon]

🙂

[chilly brook]

is it just damage buffs?

[chrome falcon]

any

smilers?

🙂

[cobalt seal]

Its not neutral

[worn dagger]

It just lowers the skill cap to maintain higher overlaps

[cobalt seal]

Its a nerf

[chrome falcon]

yes

which is why

i said

trying

i can find you a dictionary definition if you want

[umbral cave]

It helps players maintain their frailty stacks easier

[pallid quiver]

They're definitely at least trying to compensate for the amp reduction