feels a bit too strong
#protection
ebon wren
ya its silly right now;. i expect large nerfs.
marsh forge
feels a bit too strong
they are all going to feel to strong, its pre patch talents for higher content on lower content difficulty
ebon wren
maybe df dungeons will be different
mighty valley
dk health bars move again without tier set but it's not like it matters, they also can't die if they're awake
ebon wren
if I ever do take a large hit, impending victory and back to business
toxic pewter
new beta update being downloaded right now, size is around 2gb
toxic pewter
interesting
south zealot
guys the prot warrior in my group isnt using unstoppable force, blood and thunder, or onehanded weapon specialization
ebon wren
Bummer. It was fun to have a group utility
mighty valley
slightly confusing to have two CD reduction talents competing on a choice node
shut summit
it was extremely strong so ya needed to change
onyx vessel
Why would you run it on live
south zealot
use the wall run unbreakable will
mighty valley
limit testing really high keys? idk
onyx vessel
sturdy sable
Fun?
onyx vessel
Waste 20k for the wall
mighty valley
20k is a sneeze for a lot of players
sturdy sable
You didnt already have the wall crafted?
onyx vessel
Why would i
mighty valley
i had my s1 wall lying around
onyx vessel
Reprisal 
sturdy sable
°
sturdy sable
i had my s1 wall lying around
This
jagged zodiac
not sure if this has been mentioned or if there is a fix/etc, is Blood and Thunder not functioning for anyone else?
onyx vessel
Works fine
lusty grotto
🤦♂️
jagged zodiac
Whether Rend is applied or not applied, Thunderclap isn't creating/spreading it for me
olive steeple
@jagged zodiac do you have the talent rend selected
jagged zodiac
yes of course
radiant magnet
you need Rend + BnT talent
lusty grotto
its you then cause i just did a 22 ID and i have rend everywhere
jagged zodiac
ok, I'll go back to the drawing board, thanks
radiant magnet
afaik all the Blood and Thunder bugs were resolved in beta, so should work if you have both
lusty grotto
do you have blood and thunder?
olive steeple
I’m so sad unbreakable will is gone
lusty grotto
🤷
jagged zodiac
Yes, I made sure all of the knucklehead things were taken care of
lusty grotto
they made the right choice
shut summit
it was fun but just sooo strong
jagged zodiac
removing all my talents and trying again
radiant magnet
removing all my talents and trying again
try changing specs, then change back. there were a ton of beta talent bugs fixed by that workaround
pallid isle
just going from known issues
radiant magnet
dont know that any made it to prepatch, but worth a try
cold kiln
Hi everyone, I used to have a macro for charge my target and/or intervene my mouseover. It doesn't work anymore since prepatch.. Anyone know how i can fix this? Here is the macro:
#showtooltip Charge
/cast [target=mouseover,help,exists,nodead]Intervene;Intervene
/cast [target=target,harm,exists,nodead]Charge;Charge
lusty grotto
do you have intervene talented?
ebon wren
Tried a charge build. The cooldown is just much too long, it’s an ability you should be able to use each pull. Awkward having to use mid pull
ebon wren
Because the your just using for dps as any other ability. I want to charge in with it and get that snap threat
lusty grotto
uhh weird but ok
toxic mesa
on the subject of talents breaking up, i was doing a dungeon on my resto shaman and acid rain stopped working mid dungeon, when i changed the talent off and on after the dungeon it started working on the next one again
ebon wren
It’s literally called shield charge heh
ebon wren
K nim nevermind
lusty grotto
it deals a shitload of dmg, why even use it to pull if you dont have all mobs gathered around
ebon wren
Dumb ability then why add the charge component
lusty grotto
you can certainly use it that way, its just not very min-maxy
vernal vale
Doing a heroic meme raid to get people some practice with talent changes and i feel like I'm playing like ass
ebon wren
Shockwave build is superior. Every 15s, actually more damage, and interrupts
lusty grotto
yikes
lusty grotto
im gonna go ahead and put that in the troll drawer
vernal vale
No idea how to clean things up tonight but it really doesn't matter because prepatch
ebon wren
nim it is more dps overall. Not sure why that’s troll. And not claiming either is good lol
toxic mesa
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/yF72wQNHBvDq84VC#fight=8&type=damage-done
belloki mvp 100% parse
radiant magnet
nim it is more dps overall. Not sure why that’s troll. And not claiming either i...
play what you like in prepatch. its whatever works for you atm. once DF goes live, there are better options
silent cave
And no more party wide shield wall
yeah, RIP
lusty grotto
the talent yea
silent cave
makes immovable object not as good now either since that party wide thing was proccing off it
onyx briar
No, just the talent
noble spindle
UW removed
noble spindle
the expected
radiant magnet
unplanned fun is nerfed fun
sick sentinel
imagine how many ppl boosted warrior
radiant magnet
wait a month, bear will get love and be OP
dire tulip
Wait. What happened to prot warrior? Did they remove the party wide shield wall?
radiant magnet
he-yump
upper tinsel
I have a weird feeling that Prot will be destroyed right before DF launches.
dire tulip
So does the talent just give you an extra charge of shield wall?
radiant magnet
not yet
and will depend on the content I imagine. will probably use the wall unless fight needs 2nd cd
sick sentinel
Did we lose 10% on TC with that change?
dire tulip
I only used that talent because I had the wall legendary but the party wide shield wall was pretty fun when I started playing it. Thanks for making my choice blizz
radiant magnet
Did we lose 10% on TC with that change?
dont think so. just cleaned up the wording I think
dire tulip
dont think so. just cleaned up the wording I think
That is what has killed me about stuff lately. I can't tell whats a nerf and what is just them cleaning up useless shit
radiant magnet
it's pre patch. this is just a coasting period while we hope for no more nerfs
sick sentinel
Just the way it look, I just dont know
pallid quiver
They just moved where the text is located for better readability, it seems
The first blue line only pops up if you're Arms of Fury spec, second if Arms or Prot
radiant magnet
kinda - that makes it look like Arms spreads Rend in AOE & only arms/fury gets the +10%
sick sentinel
So is Prot still goated after these “nerfs”?
pallid quiver
If you're prot, you won't see the top blue line at all. It's a check to see what's relevant to the spec
dire tulip
The reason prot is goat isn't from what they neefed
dire tulip
Bear is just boring
sick sentinel
I decided to go Prot for df from fury and I’ve had so much fun pulling insane groups and not dying
dire tulip
they better nerf dungeon damage
We will be fine. The party has their own shit to survive
radiant magnet
the datamined wording is meh, but it's still fine
sick sentinel
So just verbiage cleaned up
radiant magnet
seems like it yep
maiden ravine
We will be fine. The party has their own shit to survive
Not enough, dungeons have way too much random group damage
jolly inlet
FOTM warrior has left chat
radiant magnet
dungeons are fine as long as idiots interrupt
most tanks are unkillable with proper play, so the random damage gives healers something to fix on dps
jolly inlet
terrible change
naive panther
Ashen juggernaught conduit broken for prot?
maiden ravine
Random damage ONE SHOTS it's just too much
Like healing Kyrakka dot is just too much for example.
dire tulip
Than no tank can run M+.
maiden ravine
And a lot of the stuff can't be interrupted currently
dire tulip
Like we just aren't as crazy group utility as before. We are still good
maiden ravine
the disrupting shout in algethar for example starts casting over and over no matter how many times you stun
radiant magnet
you realize DF dungeon tuning has barely started right?
last crest
is this any good over shard of ann? got soul on my 2nd trinket slot
ebon wren
No
maiden ravine
Yeah, and as of right now, as a healer I was sorta hoping for that warrior talent to stay cause it was one of the few group wide defensives that existed, 😄
lusty grotto
it was too strong
radiant magnet
it was op and not intended imo. blizz didnt consider that talent interaction
was nice tho
lusty grotto
but if overall group damage is a problem im sure it'll be addressed
dire tulip
As a tank who had 2 shield walls and gave 20% shield wall on avatar, it was stupid strong
errant oriole
So did they nerf SR talent for prot or just arms and fury?
lavish oracle
It was fun, kinda wish they found a way to balance it rather than just remove it entirely
lusty grotto
oh
lavish oracle
It was interesting trying to balance shield wall usage as a personal defensive vs a group defensive
lusty grotto
it says arms/fury for SR
maiden ravine
I mean it was strong in SL as a legendary, reprisal just did more for the warrior.
radiant magnet
we're 30% on tooltip
maiden ravine
it already was 30% for prot wasn't it?
radiant magnet
thought so, but my memory is mostly about blue things
sand pebble
if thats the tuning for pwar we still insanely good
clear sapphire
are we walking beta or live?
jolly inlet
prot war still gigastrong just cant DR the whole group
if anything just makes prot war more tanky now
deft ridge
Even with the change, prot is in a very good place
sand pebble
i wasnt using that talent anyway
i didnt want the healer to learn they could then heal stupid based on me pressing a defensive or not
dire tulip
I mean it was strong in SL as a legendary, reprisal just did more for the warrio...
The issue with that is there are alot of legendary effects now and they mix too well.
jolly inlet
the blood and thunder change doesnt mean we are back to rend first does it?
lavish oracle
Do we just go back to using Impenetrable Wall or do we just have a new flex point in that tier?
sand pebble
no - tc stays the same
lusty grotto
these are DF beta changes
read that again
these are DF beta changes
once again
these are DRAGONFLIGHT BETA changes
feel free to link to that message
sand pebble
what are these changes for again?
clear sapphire
I think we need our beta channel back cause this is "live" channel 😛
lavish oracle
Sure, there's not a separate place to discuss beta vs live though
chrome falcon
and the reward for the most predictable nerf of all time goes to....
lusty grotto
fair enough
clear spindle
Do these changes mean we will need more vers?
/s
pallid quiver
and the reward for the most predictable nerf of all time goes to....
reckoning bombing from super old school wow, where pallies could one-shot bosses?
sand pebble
and the reward for the most predictable nerf of all time goes to....
the dev who did this - Feral
Freedom of the Herd (PvP Talent) now reduces the cooldown of Stampeding Roar by 15 seconds (was 60 seconds).
because perma roar in pvp is broken
chrome falcon
well, yes, those
sand pebble
🙂
astral crystal
what SR nerf are people talking about
lusty grotto
seismic reverb
astral crystal
o
lusty grotto
its only a nerf for arms/fury tbh
yeah i had to read that "SR" again
so weird
and so used to SR meaning spell reflect
maiden ravine
I'm curious to see if the warrior change will go through on live with the resets in the morning
chrome falcon
honestly i think the dumbest part about UW was the interaction with IO
sand pebble
what does the duration change on roar mean>
lusty grotto
unless blizz discovered cherry picking commits lmao
chrome falcon
however no other tank has that kind of utility
so very reasonable to remove it
and we still have rally which is best-in-class group wide utility vs 1 shots
woven trellis
they could have tuned unbreakable will no?
chrome falcon
no
delicate sluice
F
lavish oracle
I hope it comes back at some point
astral crystal
lol
chrome falcon
the only way UW could stay is if every other tank had similar utility
astral crystal
love everyone pouring in here
lusty grotto
listen to mattacate kids
mellow quartz
if it works with IO
even without IO it was busted
pallid isle
Ashen juggernaught conduit broken for prot?
Just the mouse over on the conduit itself, the buff still gives full value
chrome falcon
and clearly blizz doesn't want tanks to be group utility machines so
lusty grotto
yup pack it up
sand pebble
the only way UW could stay is if every other tank had similar utility
ams/darkness/pally things - they do kinda
lusty grotto
go back to BDK
lavish oracle
Yeah, every tank should just have similar utility
lusty grotto
🙂
sand pebble
buff where?
chrome falcon
the alternative is that we kept perma devotion aura for the group
and became completely totally worthless otherwise
the 30 sec reduction on SW
astral crystal
as long as they dont nerf personal survivability and defensives, we gucci
lavish oracle
Also we should get safeguard back
chrome falcon
though i guess we just never take UW now, huh
what does it compete with, Wall right? which is just gonna be better
lusty grotto
shh atticus let them suffer
chrome falcon
which vigilance
woven trellis
the worst thing is we re going to be able to play with it for a month in the talent
and then we wont
thats incredible
astral crystal
30% dmg reduction on selected party member vigilance
lusty grotto
OH NO!
chrome falcon
yeah idk atticus it'd be nice but
it'd also be literally just yoinking another class' ability
lavish oracle
Yeah, vigilance, forgot the pre-safeguard name
chrome falcon
so kinda unfair to them
astral crystal
well, yoinking and improving
chrome falcon
you can't just give prot warrior hand of sacrifice
pallid quiver
I glance read vigilance as vengeance, which I agree, tanks should get vengeance back 🙂
lusty grotto
turmult i wonder what other things we're not gonna be able to play with, you know like... yellow items, and/or borrowed power... yup prot is dead
chrome falcon
that's kinda rude to paladin
astral crystal
since vigilance was permanent right
chrome falcon
hell no
lusty grotto
/sarcasm
chrome falcon
vigilance 1.0 was permanent THREE percent DR
mellow quartz
whats good abt this change is they didn't touch anything else
chrome falcon
then vigilance 2.0 was Literally Just Hand of Sacrifice
woven trellis
turmult i wonder what other things we're not gonna be able to play with, you kno...
oh no, i absolutely dont think prot is dead, i just wanted to play with that ability sounded fun
lusty grotto
well you can now
chrome falcon
wait yeah
lavish oracle
IO interaction, sure, UW was very intended
chrome falcon
it was intended
they made a specific change to it
to make IO shield walls weaker
but then they just realised it was giga fucking stupid
sand pebble
maybe we need a talent that lets us spend excess ignore pains on convincing party members to also ignore pain
mellow quartz
you will be able to play the wall now and get yourself some more rage which is always nice
radiant magnet
the talent combo was the unintended part. reduced Avatar CD is what breaks it
gives you the ability way too often compared to anything any other tank brings
radiant magnet
doesnt matter tho, it's gone now
sand pebble
leaper
lavish oracle
Nah, I liked UW better
mellow quartz
the talent combo was the unintended part. reduced Avatar CD is what breaks it
they specifically made the talent to do that so cant say its unintended, tooltip says it
chrome falcon
it may have been initially unintended
radiant magnet
no longer matters
mellow quartz
IO was implemented less than a month ago with this specific wording
chrome falcon
then they realised that interaction, tried to make it balanced, failed, and here we are
so it's whatever
lavish oracle
The wall doesn't change how you play, UW makes you choose between Shield wall as a personal and a group defensive, which is fun
chrome falcon
this was clearly never going remotely live
main ravine
whats the rend/thunderclap change about?
mellow quartz
abt arms and fury
lavish oracle
Not our problem
chrome falcon
The wall doesn't change how you play, UW makes you choose between Shield wall as...
it's fun up until you die/wipe because of it
fuck my group
dogshit players
all about me
can i get an amen
mellow quartz
you still have rally
chrome falcon
^
we still have best-in-role group wide DR (effectively)
for big hits
darkness is RNG and AMZ is a bit of a yikes
lavish oracle
Less interesting, I'm never using rally so I personally can survive something
But yeah, I do like rally
radiant magnet
issue was never IO + UW as a combo. it was IO + UW + AM + our rage gen ratethat breaks things
lusty wedge
Nice
lusty grotto
can i get an amen
amen
toxic mesa
leecher
lavish oracle
I also miss when there was mlre stuff we could intervene
lavish oracle
Like eudora shot
chrome falcon
the wall is just so much better than UW
more rage gen and so many more SW casts over a run
although
hm
idk maybe i'm wrong about that last part
lavish oracle
Yeah, the replacement talent needs some work
chrome falcon
but more rage means that the wall is a gimme
radiant magnet
UW was great, but was also obviously broken and going to be an issue. Replacement is meh unless you need 2 SW cds on a fight for reasons
cobalt seal
Well in theory you get 1 extra wall
frozen elbow
sorry wat that does UW stand for
cobalt seal
If you keep it on cd
lavish oracle
Unbreakable Will
chrome falcon
well
radiant magnet
sorry wat that does UW stand for
Unbreakable Will - removed now on beta
chrome falcon
it comes with 30 seconds of extra CDR now
prisma crane
boring
chrome falcon
so definitely more than just 1 extra wall
cobalt seal
Depends
prisma crane
shouldve just made it not work with IO
chrome falcon
but probably fewer walls than unbreakable
chrome falcon
yeah i think if you literally just care about getting SW casts
you want to go with the new thing
but the rage gen makes the wall better
radiant magnet
you SS so often, pretty sure Impen Wall is just going to come up more than 2 charge + 30s CDR
lavish oracle
shouldve just made it not work with IO
This is my feeling, kinda feels like a baby with the bathwater situation
prisma crane
it sounds to me like they didnt have a good fix for a different problem and it just killed that talent completely
chrome falcon
i think UW could definitely have become a big balance problem
mellow quartz
the actual CD of SW with Wall and Will on beta wasnt that large before so 30s off shield wall with Will is quite big
chrome falcon
and made pwarr the only viable tank for pushing
casting constant devo auras and having rally
is something other tanks cannot compete with
lusty grotto
i really dislike the mine icon now
cobalt seal
Like if the party wide was a thing
lavish oracle
Maybe next expansion they'll give more tanks similar utility and they can bring it back
cobalt seal
There would be only 1 tank
radiant magnet
yep
chrome falcon
anyone who plays any tank should have seen this coming
spamming group DRs doesn't fit into blizz's design for tanks atm
you get one every 3 mins and you say thank you very much
radiant magnet
expected a nerf. slightly suprised they removed it entirely, but meh
chrome falcon
yeah same but i think it's the best thing long term
radiant magnet
agreed
chrome falcon
i don't want us to turn into some shitter that's just a wall bot
oak echo
i'm too dumb to understand the roar change. does it just not do a bleed now?
vestal moat
should we sstill take ashen juggernaut for keys as a conduit? seems weird now with the execute cd
chrome falcon
trying to over-analyse extremely confusing dataming that we're never meant to see
limpid pawn
hey, is there a way to get taletnts from wowlogs
chrome falcon
is what would make you dumb
radiant magnet
i'm too dumb to understand the roar change. does it just not do a bleed now?
no change. just tooltip
wet compass
there is no fucking way we aren't getting nerfed unfortunately 😦
chrome falcon
does execute actually have a fucking CD now
for us
because earlier someone said it did
and now someone else has said it
radiant magnet
does execute actually have a fucking CD now
have not tested. someone earlier said it's using the Condemn (venthyr) ability & CD somehow
mighty valley
condemn never had a cd either?
rocky kraken
ye it was using condemn animation for me
orchid mural
uh... stupid question... how do u place raid markers with the default UI ? i can't figure it out.
chrome falcon
there's absolutely no shot that blizz wants execute to 1) do shit damage 2) have a CD 3) cost half our rage bar
wet compass
uh... stupid question... how do u place raid markers with the default UI ? i can...
you get opie back
chrome falcon
it's in keybinds @orchid mural
wet compass
or yeah keybind it
vestal moat
it's so bugged idk whats going on was showing 4.6sec cd in the last key i did and now in oribos showing no cd
chrome falcon
default is ctrl+f1 ctrl+f2 etc i think
icy flax
hit 100% banner uptime in a +18 ID that was really fun
chrome falcon
ocean yoke
slacker, missed 8 seconds
wet compass
hit 100% banner uptime in a +18 ID that was really fun
not 100% shield block uptime 😛
shield block is kind of absurd right now I'm rarely having it drop below 20 seconds
mighty valley
good job! reported for offensive name
icy flax
Understandable
wet compass
execute on dummies definitely doesn't have a cd
icy flax
not 100% shield block uptime 😛
Shield block 87% cuz i be revenging too much, Still didn't take pretty much any damage though
wet compass
not sure in instances
chrome falcon
say you're talking about prot pally rn 
chrome falcon
skyhold crowdfund a name change
wet compass
never justified warrior is life
mellow quartz
hit 100% banner uptime in a +18 ID that was really fun
SS says 99%, you are lying
wet compass
but maybe we should all name change to that so we don't get nerfed
we can be like boomkins and warlocks and pretend our spec is terrible when it's ungodly op
wet compass
nerf guardian druid nobody wants to play a furry 😛
radiant magnet
sad us
legit - that was our 4th round of nerfs. we're balanced now.
so piss off devs
lusty grotto
dev eyes will be on enh shaman anyways
chrome falcon
i think we're on the "very strong" side of balanced atm
orchid mural
Sorry, i can't find the raid markers - i mean the ones we place on the ground, not on players
chrome falcon
Sorry, i can't find the raid markers - i mean the ones we place on the ground, ...
it's in keybinds i can't remember specifically where#
radiant magnet
who is realistically better lol
legit, the tanks are fairly balanced atm
chrome falcon
i think it's the same section as player markers
orchid mural
*while in a party. when in raid they show up as normal.
radiant magnet
some are more dps, but squishier. we're strong tank, decent dps.
chrome falcon
who is realistically better lol
we can simultaneously be balanced and also better than everyone else
icy flax
SS says 99%, you are lying
I like all warrior players like to exxagerate
cobalt seal
All 5 tanks have pro and cons
chrome falcon
🐻❄️
prisma crane
we can simultaneously be balanced and also better than everyone else
i would argue that if we're perfectly balanced that most wouldnt take us as we're more complicated than other tanks
radiant magnet
only tank in a wierd spot is bear. they actually perform ok, will probably need a dmg buff, but the rotation & talents are different and not fun for most
prisma crane
and have less utility
chrome falcon
i would argue that if we're perfectly balanced that most wouldnt take us as we'r...
this is copium
mellow quartz
if you play what you like you might not always get to tank what you like 🙂
prisma crane
sure, for players who are used to prot warr
still doesnt change that we're a proactive tank
chrome falcon
idk you just press shield slam when it lights up and spend rage sometimes
cobalt seal
All tanks are proactive
Wtf are you talking about
If you play any tank reactive
You are doing it wrong
mighty valley
when people say that they just mean "other tanks have more easy buttons to recover from fuckups"
mellow quartz
pwar and bdk can both use LS and VB reactively and get value
prisma crane
when people say that they just mean "other tanks have more easy buttons to recov...
pretty much this
its harder for us to dig out of a hole on our own
cobalt seal
when people say that they just mean "other tanks have more easy buttons to recov...
And pwar is the tank with least dmg taken
That didnt change
Pwar is super ez to play
cobalt seal
I dont know what this cop about pwar is
cobalt seal
its harder for us to dig out of a hole on our own
Have you consider that design
Or usually you have a healer
prisma crane
its not a cop, i will always play prot warr, im just saying that we've had to be clear cut winners to be picked over alternates for a while now
cobalt seal
And thats cop
lusty grotto
except in bfa
but yes
and obviously vanilla
honorable mention to glad spec in WoD
radiant magnet
i mean we're not clear cut winners now. VDH is stupid op and ignores magic. properly played, pally is strong. all tanks are gods atm
icy flax
doomer doomer doomer
radiant magnet
bear aside*
prisma crane
its not being doomer, it's understanding how we've been since basically forever, it IS because of how we're designed
radiant magnet
being a clear cut winner right now means you get nerfs
prisma crane
like i said, i only play prot, even if 6th among tanks, just is what it is
radiant magnet
I end up prot + one other tank usually. probably bear this around.
icy flax
its not being doomer, it's understanding how we've been since basically forever,...
play 4 fun be good
prisma crane
please point to where i said i wanted to be meta
i just said that if all are even we almost certainly wont be top
cobalt seal
And?
prisma crane
it's a statement
prisma crane
there is no and
median tulip
Don't want to be meta; being meta means you're the nail that sticks up
radiant magnet
still too early for meta call anyway. blizz may go nuts yet.
prisma crane
that whole tallest sunflower thing is such a bad way to live
sand pebble
problem is with playing 'the meta' tank you end up like my guildy now saying 'i dont know what to play cause bdk isnt as strong as it was'
if you just play pwar, you only play pwar
cobalt seal
problem is with playing 'the meta' tank you end up like my guildy now saying 'i ...
Ez
Tell them they suck
And bdk is more than fine
sand pebble
i did when he is refusing to even test play his warrior
median tulip
I take solace in the fact that the people who compile the meta lists are generally mouthbreathing idiots who have no idea how Warrior works or how to play it, so even if we are really good they will rank us lower
cobalt seal
Bdk is the highest st tank for df
Their aoe isnt that great compared to others but they dont fall that far behind
sand pebble
he legit needs 'the top tanks' to say 'you have to play this class or else'
radiant magnet
takes some skill, but dbk is fine
cobalt seal
People just think is spamming hs like a headless chicken
fluid beacon
I take solace in the fact that the people who compile the meta lists are general...
ease of play is a big and overlooked part with these meta lists. notice how warrior is also lower ont he lists cuz its "clunky". it truly was. you have to work way harder to do similar or worse shit than other tanks
so from a prog perspective, that matters too
outside of the main things like DPS and tankiness
lusty grotto
that's not the definition of "clunky"
and its not
it had a higher skill cap
that doesnt mean its "clunky"
fluid beacon
i consider it clunky when you have to many abilities to watch in real time that constantly change the way you play. especially if you want to play optimally
im aware its higher skill gap. it doesnt doesnt make it not clunky
lusty grotto
well that's still not clunky
median tulip
prisma crane
i agree it's not clunky, but apart from word choice there the point is still accurate, ease of play when balanced is important
fluid beacon
giving something 5 things to watch that change constantly in real time is clunky to me. its making a class harder for the sake of making it harder
lusty grotto
fluid beacon
and then saying "well... git good"
you are arguing semantics. you know what people in this game call clunky
its obviously not LITERALLY clunky
radiant magnet
with the right WAs, we could add some clunky sounds
fluid beacon
lmfao
lusty grotto
oh, you're not being literal, i see
fluid beacon
loving the feel of current prot. very reminiscent of bfa gay days
tclap is just constantly up to be pressed lol
prisma crane
gay days, lmao
fluid beacon
@lusty grotto . AWARE. Not LITERALLY Hay Days
median tulip
The best things in life are to crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of other tanks saying "but I thought Prot Warrior was bad"
lusty grotto
bfa clunky days, got it
fluid beacon
bfa clunky days, got it
Clunky Hay
fluid beacon
The best things in life are to crush your enemies, to see them driven before you...
i mained warrior in wrath, cata, quit until legion and have been playing ever since
mighty valley
gonna be wearing "i played prot warrior in sl s1 and didn't complain" shirt while yall are enjoying the sun
fluid beacon
went through the "shit tank tier" as prot
and got me my CEs
fuck em all
Prot Warrior on Ghuun... EZGAME
lusty grotto
🤷
median tulip
gonna be wearing "i played prot warrior in sl s1 and didn't complain" shirt whil...
I did too. But I was solo tanking Sludgefist for shits and giggles.
fluid beacon
I did too. But I was solo tanking Sludgefist for shits and giggles.
you and a melee dps every swing
lol
median tulip
Nah, if the DPS stay away he can hit your for double. You could take it, he's not that hard
median tulip
That's what I call "Someone else's Problem"
fluid beacon
^^^^
its only their problem for 1 hit only anyways
so sall good
margin of error
clear sapphire
I looked and I didnt see anything pop up, but the "very rare" rings that drop from the new raid that have the fire damage proc to work, do we have any way besides a trinket we can get to proc them?
slow token
Damnit ... There are the warrior nerfs. RIP
mellow quartz
Straight F tier now.
rose pilot
so what is the top tank for m+ with this tunings?
median tulip
I assume Defender's Aegis is a direct 1-for-1 replacement for UW?
lusty grotto
lmao
mellow quartz
so what is the top tank for m+ with this tunings?
Hunter pet
median tulip
so what is the top tank for m+ with this tunings?
Bear
lusty grotto
so what is the top tank for m+ with this tunings?
enhancement shaman
mellow quartz
Druid trees
No joke actually. Trees are op as hell for the champions and their bleeds in the start of HOV.
median tulip
I was distinctly upset when BI had the bleed removal taken away
mellow quartz
Play with a Druid and an evoker and you are covered. Druid for trees and evokers can remove bleeds on a 1min cd.
prisma crane
yea but we cant have our 3 min removal
lusty grotto
sure you can
mellow quartz
You can dwarf on a 2min 🙂
lusty grotto
2014 called, they want you playing classic
mellow quartz
Imagine still being horde in oct 2022 indeed
mellow quartz
Got removed
stable valve
What’s the CD on SW now w/ this change
mellow quartz
But now pwar is unkillable?
What do you mean now?
median tulip
Nerf to War Machine is a LOL
stable valve
They changed from party DR to 2 charges and 30s shorter cd
lusty grotto
thanks we've def not known of this change
mellow quartz
Nerf to War Machine is a LOL
Fury only
lusty grotto
45 previous folks definitely didnt say so
stable valve
lusty grotto
46*
mellow quartz
Your right. I am blind.
median tulip
In fact it appears under Arms as well
stable valve
45 previous folks definitely didnt say so
You talkin to me? Just curious if I’m not alone in the unkillable though my b
mellow quartz
He means people coming in here over an hour after patch notes are posted and thinking people are not already discussing it.
You posted it like no one knew.
median tulip
I can't see DA getting much play over IW
stable valve
He means people coming in here over an hour after patch notes are posted and thi...
ROFL just realized you “what do you mean now?” Comment was rhetoric
lusty grotto
He means people coming in here over an hour after patch notes are posted and thi...
why did you ruin it
😢
stable valve
I can't see DA getting much play over IW
Depends what the SW cd of each is and if you need two SW back to back for some reason vs the extra rage
mellow quartz
Nerfing the on dead rage from war machine is so strange.
When things start to die is usually when it stops being hard lol
weary python
Any advice on getting used to battle/ defensive stances?
lusty grotto
what do you mean
cobalt seal
Use battle
weary python
Didn't have to use them before
median tulip
make a macro that changes you to the other one, whichever you're currently in
/cast [stance:2]!Defensive Stance;!Battle Stance```
fervent kestrel
Are we still running Marileth for soulbind?
dark lark
Regarding the @modern brook build, is this with Seismic?
warm plinth
Nimchip why you being toxici n here
spice cedar
so UW got removed right ..
warm plinth
so UW got removed right ..
Yessir
south zealot
yoyooyoyyoyoyoyoyyoyoyoyoyoyoyyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyyoo
spice cedar
will the new talent be worth taking over Impenetrable Wall
shrewd walrus
I just ran a key where Immovable Object was causing the UW party effect every time I hit avatar despite not being specced into it
warm plinth
I don't think so. You should easily get more than 30 sec of CDR from impenetrable wall
warm plinth
The extra charge doesn't really matter though. That's only useful if you need the two charges close together
If you don't, then you'd be better off taking impenetrable wall
It's possible htere might be an encounter or a dungeon in DF where you need it, but in general, you shouldn't
spice cedar
ya tho so
urban portal
you need 6 shield slams every minute and half ish for wall to beat aegis
prisma crane
yea and if you arent getting that...
warm plinth
Krotos are you even a real person anymore
prisma crane
occasionally i cosplay as one
spice cedar
then Immovable Object isnt worth taking anymore i guess
since it used to proc SW on party aswell
urban portal
itll be very niche
lusty grotto
Nimchip why you being toxici n here
cause we're repeating history again
urban portal
ill give you that
spice cedar
pure def ofc
warm plinth
cause we're repeating history again
pwar being restored to its former glory 🙏
lusty grotto
yeah remember s2 bfa?
warm plinth
south zealot
no
lusty grotto
👢 🍵 👏
warm plinth
we dummy thicc again bois
onyx vessel
You are @warm plinth
warm plinth
😊
lusty grotto
i cant help it when we're flooded by fotm rerollers
onyx vessel
lusty grotto
its fun
warm plinth
I've been hiding in fury land, waiting for the right moment
onyx vessel
Windfury slaves
Aff lock jeez
Couldnt outhreat his ass
Mans doing 100k
Rips everything
Seed big dam
Murlocs in gambit all went pop
3 aff locks new meta
lusty grotto
true true
lusty grotto
hows arms
onyx vessel
onyx vessel
Ask someone who plays arms
lusty grotto
😢
warm plinth
Fury seems like it's gonna be even easier than it already was
onyx vessel
Smash revenge and tclap and ss
warm plinth
Though with a couple more buttons to press I guess
cinder nova
Are we prioritizing TC during Ava and just weaving Rev > TC > Rev > TC for SoF?
At least in cleave/M+
lusty grotto
in aoe yea
mighty grail
How are the nerfs affect us?
sudden palm
Is Thunderous roar removed? Or WoWhead jebaiting me?
lusty grotto
Is Thunderous roar removed? Or WoWhead jebaiting me?
sounds like a behind the keyboard problem
sudden palm
lusty grotto
yes
peak jackal
Haha
spiral crypt
No
lusty grotto
onyx vessel
Theres a bug that covenant hp bonus doesn't get added when key starts
lusty grotto
im gonna use that every single time
onyx vessel
So you end up with like 10k less hp
ornate thunder
is that their knee jerk reaction to everyone crafting seismic, lol
better get a token and craft something else kids
cinder nova
What nerf?
ornate thunder
So value remains the same on Lego?
prisma crane
Barely a nerf
i mean in terms of group utility it went from amazing to non existent, its a massive nerf, but also understandable
onyx vessel
They dont stack
In that sense yeah big nerf for those people who are going to use it well
Unbreakable will + wall legendary tho
Possibly why it was removed
But you could run that talent with the Unbreakable will legendary
So its for DF
onyx vessel
i mean in terms of group utility it went from amazing to non existent, its a mas...
Time to make the legendary and run wall talent
ornate thunder
This whole overlap time is a practice in masochism for the dev team, I can’t even imagine trying to keep all this organized using jira and god knows how many developers
onyx vessel
They got there hands full on the buggy mess of prepatch
But its fine unbalanced mess its perfect
ornate thunder
We have three people on staff at work and it would be a nightmare trying to manage it
onyx vessel
People need to cry less about ui issues
Had someone in my guild complaining cuz they almost had a nervous breakdown cuz ui was outta place
ornate thunder
That's been every prepatch since bc, not sure why anyone is surprised
mighty grail
So we are still god after nerfs ye?
sinful plover
WoWHead prot warrior general AoE build isn't speced into Shockwave, I can't imagine going a dungeon without it. Are you guys running it?
undone verge
WoWHead prot warrior general AoE build isn't speced into Shockwave, I can't imag...
We run shockwave in DF when we have 5 more talent points
Choosing between shockwave and avatar, we choose avatar and it’s capstone over shockwave
shy gorge
So we are still god after nerfs ye?
Nerfs already?? Could you link em mate?
undone verge
Nerfs already?? Could you link em mate?
Talents (4)
Battering Ram Shield Charge critical strike chance and critical strike damage increased by 15%20%, and Shield Charge increases your auto-attack damage and speed by 20% for 20 sec.
Effect #2 Apply Aura: Add Modifier - Flat Modifies Critical Strike Chance
Value: 1520
Affected Spells:
Shield Charge
Effect #3 Apply Aura: Mod Melee Critical Damage % Modifies Buff Duration
Value: 1520
NEW Defender's Aegis Shield Wall gains 1 additional charge, and its cooldown is reduced by 30 sec.
Unbreakable Will Shield Wall gains 1 additional charge, and grants 50% of its effect to all party members.
Removed
Category changed from Talents to Uncategorized
War Machine Your auto attacks generate 50% more Rage.
Killing an enemy instantly generates 105 Rage, and increases your movement speed by 30% for 8 sec.
undone verge
Basically our talent that gave us a second charge of SW and applied 50% of the duration to party members was removed and now it’s 2 charges and duration reduced by 30 sec
And yeah they buffed certain stuff
ionic fern
😂
trim bay
its always a buff
even if its nerfed to the ground
but in this instance its actually not bad at all
undone verge
To clarify WM is 10-5 not 105 lol
trim bay
but at least @ionic fern got a giggle
ionic fern
I like a good joke in the morning.
trim bay
4:20 pm
ionic fern
08.20 am
trim bay
blaze up lad
undone verge
The morning 
I gotta wake up in a few hours
trim bay
but in all honesty
ionic fern
Those are irrelevant.
south zealot
no
river path
Hey I was just wondering if there was any reason to use whirldwind over revenge? I'm a new warrior leveling up 🙂
It seems like revenge does more aoe dmg then whirlwind?
south zealot
Hey I was just wondering if there was any reason to use whirldwind over revenge?...
no
trim bay
never
south zealot
never press whirlwind
trim bay
cost more rage
ionic fern
Hey I was just wondering if there was any reason to use whirldwind over revenge?...
Hello!
ionic fern
Only if it has "Shield" infront.
river path
gotcha thanks 🙂
ionic fern
And i guess also from levels 1-3. 👀
ebon wren
WoWHead prot warrior general AoE build isn't speced into Shockwave, I can't imag...
try shockwave, if you can get the chained upgrades. do anything you want I dont think anybody is too serious right now. it's fun as fuck, and you interrupt like crazy.
worthy fjord
looking at wowhead guides, just to confirm we are taking ravager for raids and not M+?
ionic fern
You can.
You don't have to.
We have various talent options, the ones displayed on WoWHead are just a good starting point/Generic build.
south zealot
i never run shockwave right now tbh
torn gulch
seeing some people already dooming on prot warrior after some warranted changes is so funny
kekeke
small zenith
So, I'm setting up a WA to track Seeing Red and Violent Outburst. I'm noticing on the dummy that when I cast Thunderclap at 7 stacks of Seeing Red, I just get the Violent Outburst effect and my stacks reset. Is this a known bug?
cinder nova
What changes? 🤔
ionic fern
You diddn't hear?!?! WE GOT NERFED.
ionic fern
THEY REDUCED THE RAGE GAIN FROM WAR MACHINE TO 5 ON EACH KILL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
cinder nova
???
torn gulch
hahahaha
cinder nova
who the fuck cares
cinder nova
WM is literal point tax
ionic fern
worthy fjord
torn gulch
did not expect the removal of party shield wall but it is not that big of a deal
healers will have to adapt
shy gorge
where do you get info about the nerfs? Is there like 1 link for blueposts with all the info about classes?
lusty grotto
on the front page of wowhead
the nerfs are for dragonfight beta build
as in, they are not in live
yet
shy gorge
ty bro
warm plinth
@ionic fern are you ok my friend? ily
limber patrol
Well Prot Warr nerfs to shield wall. Was to expect they do smth regarding Group-Shieldwall. On beta it was like transforming our strongest deff cd to a party cdr.
Actually happy with this, and don't surprising^^
ionic fern
<@238357283996696576> are you ok my friend? ily
Jeah, i'm doing fine, how about you?
flat jackal
Did they completely remove the aoe shield wall or move it to the general side?
ebon wren
when nerfed though, next maintenance? with dragonflight?
warm plinth
I'm good. Work nearing its end. Payday today too 
warm plinth
Did they completely remove the aoe shield wall or move it to the general side?
It was removed and replaced with another talent that adds the 2nd charge and reduces the CD by 30 seconds.
flat jackal
No 😦
ebon wren
sorry read above already answered
warm plinth
were people really giving raid spots for that? It only affected your party, not the entire raid
flat jackal
were people really giving raid spots for that? It only affected your party, not...
Nah I’m just kidding. I just liked having it for m+ in beta
sick sentinel
Just run 5 :4head:
flat jackal
But any idea why limit might do double prot warrior? My brain is too small to comprehend
In terms of what prot has
dull epoch
were people really giving raid spots for that? It only affected your party, not...
It was busted for M+ but there are other great options
sick sentinel
But any idea why limit might do double prot warrior? My brain is too small to co...
- Rally
- Execute
- Beefy af
- Mwahi is Bald so they're helping bring light to his guidewriting skills.
flat jackal
1) Rally
2) Execute
3) Beefy af
4) Mwahi is Bald so they're helping bring light ...
Yo I’m bald too!
BaldING
copper talon
Any prot streams on twitch where I can learn how pro’s use a prot warrioR?
M+ Preferably
undone verge
you get really angry and press the buttons really really hard and it seems to work out
modern brook
Any prot streams on twitch where I can learn how pro’s use a prot warrioR?
Sense nomeratur Jakey plka
copper talon
😂😂
dull epoch
Any prot streams on twitch where I can learn how pro’s use a prot warrioR?
I recommend Pika and Tattman
For M+
copper talon
Thanks budd
arctic basin
Plka is streaming right now
copper talon
❤️❤️
velvet elbow
Yo, Kyr or Necro for pure dmg in M+ right now?
ionic fern
1) Rally
2) Execute
3) Beefy af
4) Mwahi is Bald so they're helping bring light ...
Unironically Execute is....meh.
Shield Slam deals more damage.
sick sentinel
Unironically Execute is....meh.
3 of 4 ain't bad 😛
Sajj that they hit Prot execute that harshly though
onyx vessel
Hit execute to feed banner
cinder nova
It think the nerf to damage makes the new jugg a bit more worth since it's damage % instead of crit chance
burnt crane
Exe is also meh due to 4p
undone verge
I feel like execute will be more relevant in ST when we hit DF
simply cause jugg+ the 2 point node in general tree
ionic fern
SS has so many insane modifiers that Punish will more than likely be the go-to.
urban portal
It think the nerf to damage makes the new jugg a bit more worth since it's damag...
They are effectively the same thing
Very minor difference
cinder nova
Yeah, but with higher crit the value of damage % goes up
and it's not like we aren't building crit
it's just finding out what % that eclipse occurs
urban portal
Well nerfing the damage didn’t change that dynamic
%damage will always be better than %crit if the value is equal
In fact nerfing execute and leaving shield slam untouched makes a case for punish
It’s already an excellent talent and only got better when the parity shifted towards punish
urban portal
Would you want your damage more in execute tho
frank hemlock
my execute has a cd on it lmao
toxic pewter
Did you switch from arms recently or even fury
frank hemlock
am stupid and this always been a thing?
urban portal
You are stupid
undone verge
Would you want your damage more in execute tho
I want my optimal execute rotation back of 40k SS>60k Execute>20k SS>70k Execute>50k SS
perfect
toxic pewter
Yah when you switch from arms to prot it bugs execute with a cd
undone verge
as long as it evens out idc
they could do the same amount of dps overall but I just enjoy execute phases
urban portal
Execute also gets worse when kill timers goes faster
undone verge
true, but then in that situation I can just swap to punish
it evens out
that would be the better scenario where good players aren't punished in their dps for having slow kills
errant oriole
this might be a dumb question but is wild strikes and cruel strikes worth it?
errant oriole
does it help war machine give you more rage then?
strong forum
Ofc
errant oriole
oh ok thanks
errant oriole
oh shooot thats right im so dumb thanks nome lol
3 am and I am not thinking clearly lmao
strong forum
Added another basic m+ Build
lusty spade
do you guys feel that prot suddenly heals a ton
jagged pier
strong forum
Well yeah that part sucks
lusty spade
didn't play it myself but i had a prot doing like 20k hps in m+ on a long ish pull
lusty spade
dang such a small change with such a big impact
strong forum
Ofc
Prot now actually gets stronger the more targets there are
In SL we didnt
We were consistently average
lusty spade
time to learn how to tank properly let's go
strong forum
Now we just ramp up the more targets there are
Just look at this
At the end of that boss I had 3minutes of banner stacked up
ruby berry
Absolutely everything here is fine! Nothing to see here! 😉
rich helm
Were the nerfs hard or not?
radiant magnet
https://clips.twitch.tv/TallStrongDonkeyPicoMause-HHHEdlBjM6xsynVz
no ravager?! git gud 😉
ruby berry
The nerfs are absolutely nothing.
radiant magnet
it was very expected. would have been shocked if they didnt
ruby berry
I'm expecting many, many more.
strong forum
Idk about that
All tanks are fine
The only outliers are brews defensively and bear offensively are lacking
radiant magnet
I'm expecting a slight bear buff. then tanks are more or less aligned
ruby berry
In my experience on beta it's a bit lopsided but eye of the beholder and whatnot.
radiant magnet
then again, blizz seems to be ignoring bear so who knows
ruby berry
Well it feels significantly easier to be invincible regardless of pull size comparatively while doing nearly brew damage.
strong forum
Vdh and bdk are in that exact same boat
ruby berry
And the only tank that I've felt nearly as strong on is vdh.
Absolutely anecdotal of course as it's just my experience. But vdh still took some damage. The 15s I ran on my warriors I was laughably invincible.
radiant magnet
the only one I didnt feel tanky enough on was paladin & that was probably more my skill with the class than anything. the dps was decent despite bugs. I just felt like there were active mitigation gaps the other tanks didnt really have
raven hatch
The "nerf" was inevitable
what nerf has landed?
mighty valley
team shield wall removed
raven hatch
where is that?
radiant magnet
beta. datamined changes on wowhead
radiant magnet
removed party shield wall. replaced w/ 2 charge and 30s CDR
unless they hot fixed it last night, still in prepatch
topaz leaf
what were they thinking. I mean really.
raven hatch
i make my team so defensively strong
it felt kinda nice to carry bad players with it though xd
ruby berry
Well the theme of the prot war tree in general is having fun cross interactions between abilities. There's so much good synergy. This one they just decided was a bit too much.
radiant magnet
to be fair, it was out of balance compared to all other tanks
imagine they gave BDK a 30s AMZ
rage
raven hatch
being able to give 25% DR on every slam in GD, every breathe on last boss, every vent jets, every giga zap... just insane