Would do even more in high keys. But I get the point. He had 30% uptime on banner so he didnt really care about uptime either. (I was healing this one)
#protection
dusky sentinel
strong forum
That's pretty terrible
5-6mil on TC sounds a bit too much
That's my dmg breakdown from gambit 24, 20.8k dps
And thats pretty much the most pad heavy dungeon, next to lower, where you get alot of aoe spamming
jagged pier
thats a huge upgrade
dusky sentinel
Thats an impressive number of shield slams mate @strong forum
jagged pier
thats the usual amount of SS
dusky sentinel
But yeah. I was thinking the same
strong forum
Thx but that should be normal
The highest prio of a pwar is keeping up Banner and SB , no amount of padding aoe dmg can make up the loss of banner uptime
dusky sentinel
You guys are not giving urself enough credit. For u its easy. For many others that is playing with random pugs. Its not that easy. So 🙏
jagged pier
i play with random pugs 🤔
dusky sentinel
Sry. Didnt bother to go into details. Higher keys. More understanding. You as a personal player mastering the basics etc. Just stating its a reason u guys edit and help others in here
strong forum
Lots of people are bored of current dk
Cuz it's just so damn easy and nothing like bdk is supposed to be
RP management doesn't exist
Planning defensives is largely irrelevant
strong forum
Like bdk legit doesn't care about any mechanic until they get 1shot
That being said, being a warrior I often didn't know that physical tank busters existed in m+
Like I didn't know that security slam on oasis is actually dangerous to other tanks
zealous willow
My fr playa druid tank we do 15 cus we are still 270
I feel like he is super tanky
Idk how it is in high keys
Atm doind 22 or 23 i feel dmg on my warr, but mostly magic
Dk is ez , cus he is magic dmg tank and with this set he has now insane parry + that istant overall heal and shield after that ...
brittle owl
you're just seeing a more complete picture of the game. every tank has strengths and weaknesses, some apparent and some not
understanding them is important to improving play/strategy
strong forum
Magic dmg tank not extactly the correct term
If bdk didn't have infinite RP cuz of perma drw uptime + tierset they'd start struggling heavily
brittle owl
not exactly the right one either
strong forum
Like, bdk is in a unique position where they don't care if its magic or physical dmg as long as they dont get 1shot cuz their healing is based on dmg taken
Vdh to a certain degree aswell but they fall short on that on ST cuz of alot less soul Generation
Like imagine if vdh cap was 15 souls and they could pump 5 soul spbs every 2-3 globals even in ST, that's bdk currently
uncut dome
Do yoy guys run with a cheat death trinket for m+?
dawn canyon
No
uncut dome
Ah
ionic fern
No.
ionic fern
i play with random pugs 🤔
Tbf..keeping banner up with a random pug is indefinitely harder than when playing with a premade on voice.
😦
Not only because you can coordinate quicker but also because PuG skill level varies like crazy.
People die to the most stupid crap ever.
The amount of times where i pop banner and a DPS/Healer dies is astonishing.
strong forum
I run cheat death in JY cuz all that matters is keeping bots
echo egret
What trash pack size do you pull, to reach 20k DPS ?
echo egret
lol ok
strong forum
Triple pack into double, into single-single-zulgamux, boss - double - double - chain as soon casters are dead, go into boss as soon as casters are dead
And then just chain pull everything infront of soleah
echo egret
I don't know, I'm still struggling to reach 10K
jagged pier
Even i'm hitting 10k.
echo egret
3 runs last night
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/6WCwTRGAanX4Qdmy/
undone owl
stupid question here, I guess logs down show IP?
echo egret
DPS when active : 9.7k , 9.5K , 13K
echo egret
wow - it feels like I'm spamming it like a maniac
ionic fern
Je, definitely not enough casts.
echo egret
I hear that, but I don't think I can spam more than I already do
ionic fern
strong forum
Well if you physically can't, then that's a big
echo egret
It just "feels" like all mi GCDs are filled
jagged pier
echo egret
On top of IP casts
strong forum
Well feeling and reality are extremely often not the same
strong forum
Gotta pay more attention to your bars
dawn canyon
Or have ur weakauras do GCD spin
ionic fern
Jeah, i hear every 3rd one.
thorny stone
Just keep SS pressed at all times next expansion
ionic fern
Cause i listen to music.
echo egret
What's that addon that shows every cast you do in a bar ?
lament shell
@strong forum how much dmg increase is the heirmir over marileth?
dawn canyon
What's that addon that shows every cast you do in a bar ?
Trufigcd and a weakaura both do it
jagged pier
very smol
dawn canyon
The former is more customizable
It's more of a pvp thing so u can see ur opponents/partners globals
strong forum
<@192743144276623360> how much dmg increase is the heirmir over marileth?
🤷♂️ not a whole lot
Ive not noticed a significant difference between the 2 in m+
Way too many variables for soulbind to make a diff
Marileth is a bit more surv gain over Heimir, but Heimir can run 3endurance.
Marileth gets the bonus stuff from fleshcraft and the cc immunity (which is big on Maiden and Streets)
If I don't need the CC immunity and if I can't get good buffs from marileth then I basically run Heimir everywhere
urban bane
Is there a better tech for handling horsies in lower ? I tank them in a corner or a stable facing the wall and they usually clap me in the back after they charge
oblique garnet
Sidestep away from charge
zealous willow
How i can record my dungeon
Details says something like auto recording but?
Or my rio addon im not sure
ionic fern
Record as in log or record as in video record?
zealous willow
Logs
ionic fern
bleak depot
Does Night Elf shadowmeld give me any advantage over dwarf in M+ without a full Night elf group/Pugs?
zealous willow
Thanks
ionic fern
Does Night Elf shadowmeld give me any advantage over dwarf in M+ without a full ...
If some DPS pisses you off you can pull big, Shadowmeld, and watch them die.
strong forum
As tank there's no reason to run nightelf unless it's for a specific reason like a full nightelf group
Or if you can organise it like workshop for the last pack to allow your group to skip the last pack before last boss
brittle owl
maybe you like the /dance idk
bleak depot
Or if you can organise it like workshop for the last pack to allow your group to...
So I run in and pull, they run past trash and I meld to reset Aggro?
bleak depot
maybe you like the /dance idk
I'm really torn between going for looks or picking bis. I actually like both for various reasons haha
oblique garnet
best races
awful races looks so bad
brittle owl
smelly smelly uggo poop
mellow bridge
Races barely matter for 99% of players
brittle owl
cool factor adds 10% dps thought
oblique garnet
cool factor adds 10% dps thought
It does and not hating yourself everytime you log in is a bonus too
brittle owl
looks at vulpeera players
strong forum
Dwarf has bis aesthetics, if you think otherwise - your opinion is wrong
bleak depot
But the nelf frontflips though😕
drifting juniper
GUys
for mechagon fingers
i have the one that says it acticates with hitting from behind
and the one that says using 3 spells w/e
which one should i use?
oblique garnet
3 spell
drifting juniper
the attack from behind has lot of uptime so it works for tank
bleak depot
I don't think you will be hitting from behind a lot
drifting juniper
its buggy
wintry nymph
awful races looks so bad
im no transmog king, but i do surely love tauren
drifting juniper
its always on for some reason
brittle owl
like the almoghty RZA once said
oblique garnet
im no transmog king, but i do surely love tauren
ye tauren is fine dwarf is not
brittle owl
if you want beef then bring tha ruckus
strong forum
insert obligatory tauren hate
brittle owl
stop making manlet noises
drifting juniper
Man
i get kicked out of keys
for being vulpera
not joking
they summon me and kick me
thats abuse
drifting juniper
they call me furry tank and i dont even know what furry means
i saw the racial and i make a tank XD
toxic pewter
Yes, I get a lot of racism toward me for being Vulpera
hang in there- I stand with you
drifting juniper
2 days ago i got invited to upper for reflected and got kicked for being vulpera
toxic pewter
People dont have a clue, Vulpera very strong for tanking
strong forum
I'm certain you can report players for kicking you based off of race
Cuz that's the most vain shit ever
toxic pewter
Yeah definitely not right
strong forum
Doesn't change the fact that vulpera is very strong
toxic pewter
Yeah- I didnt say Vulpera was best
strong forum
In s3 dwarf was alot stronger than it is now
toxic pewter
Just saying they definitely are strong
strong forum
Now there's not as many debuffs to cleanse anymore
toxic pewter
The bag of tricks heal is actually super nice since I made it into a macro
I find myself helping my team a lot
strong forum
Ya I miss the on-demand heal for others
toxic pewter
Do you think nose for trouble is actually 'overrated' to some extent since we do have shieldblock up when we take first hit
like it sounds weird when I type it but is it 'fake healing' or 'padded healing'
I mean the health will need to be healed some how, right
like it still counts in my mind
lament shell
true
toxic pewter
Yeah exactly
strong forum
That fact doesn't change
strong forum
I would go so far as to say that bdk might be better off playing vulp
Cuz like I said, there aren't many debuffs to cleanse this season
lament shell
unless you use fireblood for the 
x)
uncut dome
Are we going to be able to compete with BDK dmg?
robust quiver
It depends on the execute window
robust quiver
It depends on the execute window
I was referring to single target damage ofc, which Is arguably the most important damage profile a tank can bring
Even tho yeah, gavel is busted
strong forum
A good bdk will just outright do more than you
Be that m+ or ST
If you get a good execute phase you could get ahead, but that's about it
oblique garnet
The execute phase is good for catching up to the bdk
but you still wont beat them
uncut dome
Ah yeah true
Impressive they didnt nerf Gavel
Is it actually worth to go vulpera xD?
I am considering it now
toxic pewter
I actually think Vulpera is a solid race, they have good defensive racials and good quality of life with bigger bag, can set hearth anywhere outdoor in the entire world
uncut dome
The racial actually seems amazing
strong forum
Well you'll absorb up to 8k dmg on the very first hit you take from each mob, which is arguably the weakest point of a bdk
uncut dome
And paired with the lower ring
uncut dome
Oh it is?
toxic pewter
ya that ring suck ass
toxic pewter
go do mechagon more
strong forum
It's 10% DR for 0.4 to 0.6 hits in average per mob
uncut dome
Well you'll absorb up to 8k dmg on the very first hit you take from each mob, wh...
I play prot war so not sure if vully vully is worth there
toxic pewter
Yah I play prot warr too
strong forum
Ah prot war, then it's good too
For us its basically a full immunity for the first global of dmg
uncut dome
Aye 😄
I really really really wanted to love BDK cause how strong they are
toxic pewter
how is it for brewmaster does it help with stagger
I guess they have to stagger less than they normally would
strong forum
For brew it should be even stronger
toxic pewter
Yah I feel like Vulpera monk is very good in my head
strong forum
Cuz they get their CF proc on it too I would imagine
Since absorbs proc CF with 100% chance
toxic pewter
what is CF sorry
strong forum
Celestial fortune
toxic pewter
Interesting
strong forum
For normal heals, they have equal to crit % chance to have heals be 65% more effective
toxic pewter
Ohh right
strong forum
For absorbs they have 100% chance to increase the absorb amount by crit %
toxic pewter
whoa
strong forum
Which is why rdm is turbo broken for them
toxic pewter
Yah I was reading some random article some guy saying rdm insane for brew vs their other tank was bdk
apparently the brew was getting a lot more value than the bdk with rdm
strong forum
Bdk gets the 20% proc more often, but brews proc is just 3X% larger
toxic pewter
I see
strong forum
But rdm is also hasted, so it evens out
queen bobcat
Is show of force worth it over juggernaut in keys with small pulls like workshop? I'm guessing it's better in keys like gambit without a doubt but not sure about small pull keys
robust quiver
Is show of force worth it over juggernaut in keys with small pulls like workshop...
even when show of force could give you mathematically a bit more dps on AoE i would not trade it for juggernaut, because as i said before i believe single target damage from the tank is more important than aoe padding
i guess it depends on the comp too
queen bobcat
But is it padding if it has to die? 🤔
vernal vale
Is show of force worth it over juggernaut in keys with small pulls like workshop...
Juggernaught on tyrannical is a must. On fortified you execute on priority mobs to help then die faster.
queen bobcat
Juggernaught on tyrannical is a must. On fortified you execute on priority mobs ...
oh yeah, I'm only talking about fort obviously
vernal vale
Also show of force loses nearly all value on a boss comparatively. Its only good on big groups.
robust quiver
But is it padding if it has to die? 🤔
if it would die anyway then i would call it padding ye
vernal vale
I would rather have juggernaut to execute our dreadlords
Make them die faster get more haste and roll into the next pack
queen bobcat
I would rather have juggernaut to execute our dreadlords
that is actually a really good point
vernal vale
There are also some trash mobs that I want to kill really fast on fortified such as a crawler in junkyard, wranglers in ID
chrome falcon
For zugzug alone I like AJ
strong forum
In workshop you build for full St
Why would you ever run show of force there?
The dungeon has more bosses than trashpacks
toxic pewter
I actually ran into the fray for workshop one time by accident and it wasnt bad imo
strong forum
The only dungeon where I'd ever suggest show of force would be fort lower and gambit
Itf in workshop isn't bad if you have 4 melees
oblique garnet
but workshop with 4 melee is bad 
strong forum
Yeah
toxic pewter
Yah I still prefer ravager
edgy grail
King mech with 4 melee
echo egret
Coming back to this "not casting enough" thingy... what's a good way to measure progress ?
When all my GCDs are filled asap by revenge or SS, then other fillers like DS, ravager, etc, and IP off GCD, how do I improve cpm ?
vernal vale
Coming back to this "not casting enough" thingy... what's a good way to measure ...
Spamming lots of ignore pain, revenge, shield slam, etc
Just looking at my runs last night I'm at 80CPM in junkyard. Granted that one is cheese with greasebots
While active I'm up at 88 CPM
Chain pulling as much as possible in there.
@echo egret there's a look at what casts should be if not betterm I'm bad and miss SS resets more than I should.
echo egret
hmm... I'm trying to find a way to measure "failures" at casting enough damage abilities, when every GCD seems filled
chrome falcon
well you might not be failing at that
but we have IP, SB, charge and intervene that are all off GCD and need to be pressed very often
echo egret
And rewatch
And watch which part precisely ? Off-gcd abilities not being pressed on cooldown ?
edgy grail
Everything, your decision making for what button to press, what exactly you’re pressing. Missing SS resets, overcapping rage during banner
chrome falcon
OWS/RDM
chrome falcon
And watch which part precisely ? Off-gcd abilities not being pressed on cooldown...
just watch it
it's pretty eye-opening
edgy grail
Yea you’ll be surprised reviewing how many mistakes you may actually Make that you cant really process in the momment
vernal vale
And watch which part precisely ? Off-gcd abilities not being pressed on cooldown...
Rewatching gameplay is shocking in what you'll see your not doing.
It's why I know I'm really bad at missing SS resets. I get in a rotation and slap buttons missing resets for a GCD or two
timber dagger
Whats rdm
timber dagger
Guardiann one?
vernal vale
Yeah
cunning pecan
You never have enough haste.
vernal vale
Plus haste gets better the more you have.
edgy grail
Haste is multiplicative
vernal vale
You dont really have wtf button
If your running giga keys like 25+ then you want OWS and Aegis
cunning pecan
The affix only makes OWS stronger.
vernal vale
Until your running giant keys good play means you shouldn't need an extra defensive
timber dagger
I play 25~26
vernal vale
Then Aegis value is there over RDM
cunning pecan
Best defensive is Aegis/OWS. If you need the extra defensive.
vernal vale
There are no other trinkets worth taking if your not being a parse goblin in raid.
Maybe the KT trinket
If you die often but if that's happening there are other issues.
If your running the KT trinket you still take OWS with it
timber dagger
Aegis + rdm could work too
lofty widget
I think aegis is still overrated for 25-26s
But its personal pref at the end of the day
zealous willow
This week revenge is ur 1st dmg done in overall rihgt ?
urban portal
should be slam
zealous willow
wtf
my revenge is 2x more than than my slam almost 2.5 😄
i had 500 slam casts after the dungeon
498
zealous willow
i have to make logs , cus icant understand how sl can beat in dmg revenge in forti week
zealous willow
yeah , i guess i will try to log my run and see what u guys think
any1 has good site for m22-25 routes?
distant crystal
sl?
dawn canyon
tattman has his routes somewhere
but disclaimer they are meant for his team and their comp
urban portal
dang no shot this guy is #2 on logs
playing with scale codex
trinkets actually doesnt matter
cobalt seal
who knew
urban portal
scale is literally 120 hps
cobalt seal
Until your running giant keys good play means you shouldn't need an extra defens...
?
like for real
it's not 25-26
it's more 30
vernal vale
it's not 25-26
For the average pug group it is. I suppose too most players pushing above 20 are good enough to play well, so yeah your probably right.
I personally don't bother to push much past 20s because it's all I need for portals and keystone hero
wintry nymph
with shrouded i suppose we always choose haste?
mellow bridge
yes
wintry nymph
aight
sick sentinel
i'll let you guys know if i encounter more kyrian TW pug pwars in my adventures
that happened at least twice so far
queen bobcat
highest rage per minute yet. Nearly 1200 https://wowanalyzer.com/report/6HCAWwjf7K3xm8ht/5-Mythic++Lower+Karazhan+-+Kill+(34:08)/Grillsmash/standard/statistics
FeelsGoodMan
strong forum
dang no shot this guy is #2 on logs
Nextback has been top rio prot for all expansion
And is known to play prot poorly
But the current R1 prot is even wilder
Like absolutely mad
Dude is playing seismic + hr necrolord
Which is just ❓
dawn canyon
funny
pallid quiver
but if it die faster, it no hurt?
strong forum
You get less rage/dmg and less block uptime than if you were to play reprisal + am
snow estuary
Im maintaing 90% uptime with banner
you're maintaining 90% uptime in every key you do?
aint no way
strong forum
You should
pallid quiver
ignore the free revenges or anything
queen bobcat
aint no way
lol why, that's easy
dawn canyon
since u know the pwars better than me, who of these is "known to play poorly"
snow estuary
sent a ss
strong forum
Well I've only checked nextback and tattman, others I didn't check
strong forum
Sense we all know owns.
queen bobcat
time in combat was 98% for that run
snow estuary
you doing that in every key though? with how close together every kara pull is its fine
like doable
theres no way you're keeping above 90% in every key
queen bobcat
just check my logs lol
strong forum
Woki it's 100% achievable in every key
queen bobcat
and yes, I am above 90% in every key. If I am below that, we had a lot of wipes
strong forum
In gambit I've had 98% banner, gd I've had 99%, iron docks like 95%
Streets like 92
It's literally doable in every key
And that should be your goal
Anything above 80 is okay, but above 90 is the goal
queen bobcat
@snow estuary I mean, look at how long I extended that one banner. 15 min.
cobalt seal
In gambit I've had 98% banner, gd I've had 99%, iron docks like 95%
WDYM 98% in gambit
I saw you have like 85%
strong forum
I had 98 in the gambit yesterday
cobalt seal
strong forum
The good one
strong forum
The 85 one was the omega cringe route 
cobalt seal
wdym cringe
strong forum
Ye
urban portal
Dude is playing seismic + hr necrolord
sounds gigachad
strong forum
He's running cheat death + decanter of howling, so he is quite hard chading
strong forum
I feel like they should count
But im not doing enough keys to make up a whole section myself
dawn canyon
playing no dps hard caps u at joke keys
strong forum
Should be doable on 29
dawn canyon
if you wanna beat the 45% banner enjoyers you gotta find some dps
strong forum
These people play literally 500+ keys per season
I play 800 keys in a whole expansion
topaz field
what a doubter
strong forum
You absolutely can, its the timer thats gonna be annoying
Not the "can you kill X"
There are only 3 bosses that are hard
topaz field
i think gd is one of the "easier" with multiple tanks
strong forum
Gd is amazingly easy with 5t
strong forum
No
urban portal
sadge
strong forum
It's all just rio scraps
cursive prawn
topaz field
and i have seen a bdk bath in 5 stack shrapnel blast yesterday in 27 and it made me feel bad about my prot war 😦
oblique garnet
Its not worth it
topaz field
almost deleted my prot
oblique garnet
Given how easy its to do big pulls on bdk almost made me reroll 
topaz field
i am still traumatized by tanking horses this week on lower
oblique garnet
And can always get everything stacked
topaz field
and even more angry that bdk is actually as good as we for tanking them 😄
strong forum
Bdk is like playing with 1 full tier worth of ilvl advantage
cobalt seal
Given how easy its to do big pulls on bdk almost made me reroll <:danderson:9046...
we wont accept you as a bdk for 5 tank
topaz field
is it normal that the horses fucking blast me?
topaz field
i checked later i was a little bit playing badly
strong forum
Sidestep the charge
topaz field
ye we didnt miss kicks
shut summit
yea DK is somethin else
topaz field
but i just tanked 3-4 horses
shut summit
think we were closer to them last season than this season
topaz field
and got deleted
strong forum
Yeah
topaz field
but i also missplayed
shut summit
at least its shorter season so doesnt really matter
strong forum
Gavel scales giga hard with Str and ilvl
Bdk literally 1 entire patch ahead of everyone else
oblique garnet
we wont accept you as a bdk for 5 tank
Yeah its short season so my bdk dreams are already dead
topaz field
bdk makes also all healers sloppy
real fossil
prot will be meta in DF since it was so trash at the start of SL
topaz field
and bdk makes dps toxic when i die due to missed kicks
strong forum
Idc bout meta
urban portal
because they dont get the free heart strikes
oblique garnet
blood is not bis in 5 tank content
It kinda is
strong forum
1 blood is
oblique garnet
Yeah
strong forum
But not more than 1
urban portal
ye
urban portal
i was fking around with the sims and deleting the shield block line was a dps up
like 50 dps up
but still
haughty lotus
the guide says that Unbreakable Will is shit and you should just use Reprisal, yet high M+ prot uses it. Whats the deal with that?
strong forum
i was fking around with the sims and deleting the shield block line was a dps up
That doesn't sound right in St
oblique garnet
like 50 dps up
X to doubt
strong forum
the guide says that Unbreakable Will is shit and you should just use Reprisal, y...
They only use it on Upper Karazhan
urban portal
lemme take a look
haughty lotus
They only use it on Upper Karazhan
i see it on most tho?
strong forum
Cuz you can't charge weave on bosses reliably, and the Hard part is group dmg
urban portal
id imagine its probably only true when we didnt have infinite rage like rn
strong forum
i see it on most tho?
Where
urban portal
lemme take a look
stable valve
I’m really excited for the possibility of using that as a talent in DF, such good group utility
strong forum
No he's not
Goat is using it only in upper
And he's very weird to begin with
He plays seismic + hr in normal keys
haughty lotus
then why does it show he uses it in junkyard?
topaz field
man thats raider io
urban portal
would you mind dropping a raider io link
stable valve
He plays seismic + hr in normal keys
Hr?
urban portal
or a log
topaz field
its always fucked up on raider io
haughty lotus
haughty lotus
thats why im confused
haughty lotus
its not only, when i check every dungeon he uses it
urban portal
not on streets
urban portal
but on gambit he used it
urban portal
i thought the raider keys is fairly accurate
strong forum
Nah
haughty lotus
so its either cuz he is weird or rio is fucked? just use reprisal besides on upper?
strong forum
Unless somebody logs it, raider io takes whatever you last logged out with
strong forum
Yes
stable valve
Nom do you ever use bonesmith?
strong forum
Take safeguard instead of rally tho
oblique garnet
Safeguard
strong forum
so its either cuz he is weird or rio is fucked? just use reprisal besides on upp...
He's 100% weird regardless
I can see the use of UW cuz your group just gets omega fucked in keys rather than the tank
haughty lotus
strong forum
But idk if he himself is fine enough
stable valve
I can see the use of UW cuz your group just gets omega fucked in keys rather tha...
Iron docks trash around first boss?
urban portal
ngl more i think about it
oblique garnet
But idk if he himself is fine enough
Healer heals
urban portal
UW is fine in JY
oblique garnet
Kinda but not really
urban portal
as long as you can keep the shockbots alive
strong forum
Like sure he times keys, but would it be better than playing reprisal + am?
urban portal
thats literally the whole dungeons
strong forum
In Upper I can see it
But everywhere else you just lose damage
And your healer has to spam you alot
JY kinda aswell
Cuz it's just more group dmg than tank dmg
Except last boss
oblique garnet
The dot fucks
strong forum
Yeah
haughty lotus
one more question, i assume we want Devastated Worldshard and Crest of Lord because theyre last boss ilvl?
haughty lotus
what if i dont do mythic raid? still do it or?
urban portal
then no
strong forum
Nah then it's pointless
urban portal
they are going to be similar to a random shield from m+
strong forum
Any 304 is better than those at 298
oblique garnet
If you are 2K score grimrail shield is pretty good
But yeah also that
Imagine not having 311 shield tho 
haughty lotus
as for weapon?
topaz field
Imagine not having 311 shield tho <:weird:718676218500874320>
can u tank 5 shrapnel stacks with your shield tho?
urban portal
as for weapon?
ilvl
strong forum
Imagine not having 311 shield tho <:weird:718676218500874320>
Imagine your healer quitting
oblique garnet
Imagine your healer quitting
Yeah happens and then i find a new one 
haughty lotus
alrighty, thanks
oblique garnet
Idc im pugging majority of the keys anyways
oblique garnet
Just have to adapt 
zealous willow
Have u guys seen arcane mage in ur keys are they good ? 😄
urban portal
Scam
tropic gorge
I've only seen fire mages the last couple weeks
I'm the last arcane mage I saw in m+
sick sentinel
somebody was "changing the markers and if it didn't stop he was about to leave" this kyrian pwar, but he had on reprisal , didn't time
mortal brook
arcane in m+ is one of those wide swings of 'has no idea how to play thus is arcane, does 3k on the overall' or 'is an arcane gigachad somehow topping the meters and no one has any idea how they're doing it'
sick sentinel
some how got destroyed on pack 1
mortal brook
with like, zero in between
sick sentinel
+13 ID
mortal brook
someone had an automarker weak aura, prob
sick sentinel
i've got a 1 click mark bar, but its at the very top of screen
faint chasm
does anyone else have a problem with using banner prepull in raid? It seems like every time I do it beffore the pull, the banner just immediately falls off once the boss gets pulled
strong forum
does anyone else have a problem with using banner prepull in raid? It seems like...
combat and defensive buffs disappear on boss pull
chrome falcon
does anyone else have a problem with using banner prepull in raid? It seems like...
dont do that then
strong forum
to prevent cheesing
chrome falcon
^
strong forum
just banner after you got into boss combat
mortal brook
they just fixed pre-gavel this week too. feelsbad
chrome falcon
you could build up like 45 seconds of banner on trash
faint chasm
oh i see 😞
tropic gorge
Ah the prepot nerf. I forgot about that
sick sentinel
why do you do abilities before the key timer starts? this doesn't make much sense to me
strong forum
well its also the pre-infernal infinity stacking nerf
sick sentinel
DH and lust mostly what i see it for
strong forum
back from ra-den in Nyalotha
sick sentinel
but, lots of CDs and i just don't get it
tropic gorge
Wait. I haven't noticed avatar going away when I use it then charge
Or is it... And I'm blind
delicate kraken
why do you do abilities before the key timer starts? this doesn't make much sens...
Some classes get value out of it, I normally pre army on my dk for the extra minions first pull
strong forum
DH and lust mostly what i see it for
cuz long buffs persist through key start
sick sentinel
you don't get the effect and then your cd is reset and debuff
strong forum
you do get the effect
Incarn, Meta, Army all persist
Drums dont, but Lust does iirc
urban portal
dont think lust does
strong forum
idk i never play with lust classes
urban portal
thats true
ocean yoke
dont keep it i believe but the debuff does go away
tropic gorge
I've yet to see anyone do that. I now gotta request it
topaz field
it was for iqd the lust pre pull
sick sentinel
doesn't work with lust
you loose the debuff and the effect, unless it persists on others
topaz field
idk i never play with lust classes
another reason war needs bl
tropic gorge
Lol
delicate kraken
Started my wow journey as a pwar main, Now im slowly turning into a dps player 
tropic gorge
People are already needy and demanding with heroism
strong forum
usually its the other way around
mortal brook
isnt pwar a dps?
strong forum
people start as dps, then reroll to tank cuz theyre fed up with tanks
tropic gorge
Wait till you use it and someone starts bitching because "my other groups don't use it here whyd you use it here oh my God what a waste" etc
mortal brook
people start as dps, then reroll to tank cuz theyre fed up with tanks
never gamble that your key might have a bad tank, guarantee it by being the bad tank
strong forum
exactly
delicate kraken
pwar just hasn't been as fun for me these past few years, the spark isnt there when I first started
tropic gorge
I shelved my mage this xpack because I got tired of shit tanks
delicate kraken
The most fun?
strong forum
yes
delicate kraken
I doubt
tropic gorge
I was gonna hang up the warrior (first toon) and mage it up. Changed my mind really quick
delicate kraken
But fun is subjective
vernal vale
id say pwar is currently the most fun its been in years
Last time I liked prot this much was antorus in legion
sick sentinel
it sounds like major hopium to me, but i still love it too
delicate kraken
lmao
topaz field
i never had so much fun on a tank like the current prot war
the min max potential is almost infinite
sick sentinel
never been in finals of MDI or TGP
strong forum
and before anyone mentions BFA pwar, in hindsight BFA war was just omega dumb
like stupidly easy
sick sentinel
of SL
strong forum
dont want it to return
tropic gorge
Depending on what they do this week, I'm excited to see the changes for df. So far pwar is shaping up great imo
vernal vale
and before anyone mentions BFA pwar, in hindsight BFA war was just omega dumb
I hated it
sick sentinel
and i dunno i think wasn't alot of mdi rep pwar bfa
delicate kraken
Depending on what they do this week, I'm excited to see the changes for df. So f...
This, Hoping to go back on my pwar sigma grindset
delicate kraken
and before anyone mentions BFA pwar, in hindsight BFA war was just omega dumb
bfa prot was pretty dumb, all tanks are pretty good rn but you'll always have one or two that stand out from the rest
tropic gorge
Cough cough druid
chrome falcon
BFA pwarr hater gang is growing
sick sentinel
yeah cuz one onf them has brez, deathgrip, deathstrike, AMZ purgatory and more
how could it not stand out
delicate kraken
They panicked and gutted the class coming into shadowlands
instead of just tuning
strong forum
bfa prot was pretty dumb, all tanks are pretty good rn but you'll always have on...
idc about balance
i really dont
chrome falcon
i'm glad we had 1 incredibly rough patch
since it meant we got to be like we are now
which is 100x more fun than BFA pwarr ever was
strong forum
i just dont want outliers like current BDK
chrome falcon
even if it's weaker
delicate kraken
i just dont want outliers like current BDK
Hard to not have outliers
strong forum
not rly
topaz field
not its not hard
strong forum
all they have to do is nerf gavel by 150%
delicate kraken
You're gonna always have a meta spec and class
topaz field
i would decrease parry chance by 10 % and lower their str
topaz field
and lets see
how it performs
ez fix
i should be a class designer
if its too much
we can give them back
wow as ez as that
strong forum
we can give them back
and thats what theyre gonna do in DF
more frequent numbers patches
delicate kraken
Its hard to balance outliers for the amount of classes in the game, Not to mention discords like this that usually have spreadsheets to min/max their respective class
tropic gorge
I hope class design people sit in the class discords
chrome falcon
the thing is
topaz field
no frequent numbers tunings
i totally agree
chrome falcon
BDK is probably about the same power level as us
without gavel
but gavel just gives them several thousand dps
strong forum
Its hard to balance outliers for the amount of classes in the game, Not to menti...
we literally do the job for them, its not hard at all to see that BDK dmg and surv through gavel and DRW uptime is too high
and there have been nerfs relayed to blizzard, sensible nerfs
delicate kraken
See but bdk is just the current thing, They weren't that good a few patches ago
strong forum
zealous willow
If u play alt tank what class is it ? I think that i want to gear an a alt tank ,but cant decide atm
strong forum
but blizz is just like
delicate kraken
Now they have some spotlight
delicate kraken
🤔
strong forum
its about being an entire patch ahead
delicate kraken
ahead of what
chrome falcon
i feel like you're coming at this from a perspective of "BDK is a bit better but that's ok"
delicate kraken
hasn't that been the case for quite some time now
zealous willow
try playing prot warr at m25 and dk u will see its not dps only
delicate kraken
?
strong forum
hasn't that been the case for quite some time now
AND THATS THE ISSUE
strong forum
the issue is not that theyre ahead
chrome falcon
and all you do is spam heart strike
strong forum
the issue is by how far theyre ahead
zealous willow
Do dk's' even kite ?
strong forum
i couldnt give less of a fuck about bdk being #1 if they didnt outright beat every tank by 40% dmg output and be literally immortal
delicate kraken
AND THATS THE ISSUE
Ok but my point still stands, Its not easy to make every tank roughly on all equal footing. Not to mention tuning of content and utilities that they bring. If that was the case this issue would of been solved long ago
tropic gorge
Druid 2.0 lol
strong forum
idc about equal footing
delicate kraken
?????
strong forum
all they have to do is nerf gavel
chrome falcon
It's really easy to not put gavel into the game
zealous willow
Ok but my point still stands, Its not easy to make every tank roughly on all equ...
Prot pala / monk / warr / dh are balanced almost perfcly wtf u talk ?
chrome falcon
They've managed to NOT put gavel into the game for like 18 years
You're saying balance is hard
And it is
But blizz makes it much harder on themselves
When they add shit like gavel
strong forum
ya its too late
strong forum
its also too late to nerf any other thing
chrome falcon
every tank IS ROUGHLY ON EQUAL FOOTING
tank balance is very good right now
apart from BDK
zealous willow
the guy just kiled tyra 31 key boss 1v1 lol
strong forum
^
chrome falcon
because they have an "i win" button with gavel
delicate kraken
Prot pala / monk / warr / dh are balanced almost perfcly wtf u talk ?
Never said they weren't, The issue being talked about is BDK
chrome falcon
if gavel wasn't in the game tank balance would be essentially perfect
Right but your point
strong forum
not necessarily
mellow bridge
even without gavel dk is still cancer broken
chrome falcon
Is that balance is really hard
strong forum
omg
chrome falcon
When basically the biggest balance issue right now is an item
mellow bridge
(for whatever reason)
zealous willow
Dk for his immortality , must pay with dps and blizard gave dk for their immortality DPS lol
strong forum
he fell for the bad guide
mellow bridge
what bad guide
strong forum
theres a guide written, based entirely on feelycraft
tropic gorge
Loo
strong forum
that says stuff like "vers is worth dropping ilvl for", "jaithys / haste vers weapon averages out better surv than gavel over a key"
"dont tombstone inside DRW"
zealous willow
dk is just stupidly op if u want ez rio without using 50% of ur brain go dk 2500 rio is like 2k with other tanks
strong forum
"only blood boil for dots"
delicate kraken
dk is just stupidly op if u want ez rio without using 50% of ur brain go dk 250...
This was said the same for pwar at the end of bfa, which is funny considering this is the end of shadowlands
marble sequoia
iv never played tank before and im looking to try it out. do you sim gear like a dps would?
zealous willow
This was said the same for pwar at the end of bfa, which is funny considering th...
dk was op in s3 too btw
strong forum
iv never played tank before and im looking to try it out. do you sim gear like a...
for 99.9% of cases, yes
mellow bridge
it's just awful balancing in both cases
zealous willow
dk is holding s3 and s4 ez
strong forum
pwar was overpowered in BFA cuz of dungeon design, OP dmg and Safeguard
urban portal
"only spam HS, ignore Runic power"
where can i find this spicy guide
mellow bridge
iv never played tank before and im looking to try it out. do you sim gear like a...
if you just want a good all-around build without tihnking
you go ilvl > haste > vers
strong forum
nah im not gonna link that
mellow bridge
but if you want you can sim dps and just do that as stats dont matter that much for surv
urban portal
and didnt asa say that jaithys is pretty ok
marble sequoia
alright cool thanks
strong forum
jaithys is a 3sec proc of a bit of str and a bit of dmg
zealous willow
Apart from dps , dk is immortal dont forget this 😄
prisma crane
w/ BR and grip and AMZ
zealous willow
Dk has combat ress
chrome falcon
over the course of 4 min jaithys is not that far off gavel
but the point is that gavel lets you mongo pull
and blast it
urban portal
makes sense
mellow bridge
when a spec can solo a 31 tyrannical boss (which even has a mechanic that will do up to 5 times the dmg it initially does when youre alone)
delicate kraken
Well the only solution is to become class designers and fix the issue ourselves 
mellow bridge
i'm pretty sure it's not just a single weapon doing that
delicate kraken
since its so simple
zealous willow
Blood dk always was immortal btw
chrome falcon
The point isn't that it's easy Cyno
zealous willow
problem is they gave them stupid dps
urban portal
blood has been really bad
chrome falcon
The point is that they actually managed it
prisma crane
since its so simple
you're being willfully ignorant now to the point being made here
zealous willow
yeah set was opener
i remember ppl solo did m20 as blood dk for 1-2 hours
meme runs
snow estuary
why do you do abilities before the key timer starts? this doesn't make much sens...
you can rallying/last stand and then fleshcraft before the key starts for a nice shield and they all go off cd
strong forum
BDK has always been able to solo keys if you disregard time, its just with tier they got set into overdrive of infinite RP and tripling their dps output
sick sentinel
Ppal to a lesser extent too yeah
strong forum
and completely breaking what BDK played like pre-tier
topaz field
i mean the tier set is like mind blowing
zealous willow
tier set is fun , its just need a bit of 'fixing'
topaz field
why should 1 tank parry 40 % of all melees
strong forum
70%*
strong forum
if you have a bit of crit, they have 100% uptime on 80% parry
tropic gorge
*nervously laughs in 25 percent parry chance *
topaz field
imo a bdk shouldnt be the better tank for facetanking a lot of physical dmg
but he is
zealous willow
They take more dmg than warriors
topaz field
ofc they do
zealous willow
but they have magic DS
topaz field
but they should work for it as a warrior has
zealous willow
that is lay of hands 24/7
topaz field
and not press simply 1 button and be a parry god
zealous willow
dk is hiting like truck and spaming lay of hands 24/7 in shadowlands last 2 seasons
tropic gorge
The dk hate going on is getting closer to how I feel about druids
zealous willow
And dont forget that the way they are immortal free the grp healer to go more agressive and that increase overall healer dps for the dungeon too
delicate kraken
you're being willfully ignorant now to the point being made here
Nah you're pointing out a weapon making a class broken and that is has the ability to bring group utilites, Like other tanks don't have some form of utility. You can nerf the weapon sure but as someone mentioned before it wouldn't sit well with players since dinars have been used. The fact they can almost self sustain themselves really well is apart of their spec. And while were on the topic of broken class, There has been several rotations of classes beeing nerfed and still being brought to the highest level of content(Warlock being an example). Nerfing an item doesn't change the fact that there is still a preference for certain classes to be brought for content.
snow estuary
you cant sit here and say the jailer weapon isnt a huge part of bdk being strong af
strong forum
gavel is a massive factor to them being turbo broken, its not the only, but one of the things
topaz field
lmao 😄 WL was like bdk times 1.5
prisma crane
your wall of text still doesnt address why i made that comment
zealous willow
This is going like codex LOL
topaz field
and is now a bdk times 1
delicate kraken
your wall of text still doesnt address why i made that comment
Then idk what tf you're on about
zealous willow
@delicate kraken say now that codex is bis pls
prisma crane
most reasonable people here arent taking issue with BDK being on top, they're taking issue with the extent to which this is the case
snow estuary
give every other tank a variant of the jailer weapon thats just as strong and its fine
prisma crane
just like people DID take issue with locks being on top the way there and to some extent still are, but not by the margins it was prior to recent nerfs
zealous willow
imagine u play wotlk and u have shadowomourne on ur dk guess what ?
snow estuary
we're not talking about wrath though
wrath and retail are completely different games
prisma crane
"something was bad before so its ok to be bad now" is some real 3head logic
snow estuary
what timed competitive content is there in wrath?
zealous willow
Yeah , but only dk can use shadowmourne and tank and he will be best in dps , cus of wep right ?
delicate kraken
just like people DID take issue with locks being on top the way there and to som...
But you still see a lock in almost every group despite the margins not being so high, So what exactly is the problem? BDK doing dmg with a weapon?
prisma crane
🤦
delicate kraken
🤔
zealous willow
We just say that , dk has super strong weapon to almost nuke big pulls like a survival hunter
prisma crane
i'm not going to bother, you're incapable of understanding simple concepts
delicate kraken
i'm not going to bother, you're incapable of understanding simple concepts
Despite all this, They still won't nerf gavel again because player investment
Just beating a dead horse now
snow estuary
they just shouldnt have introduced it though lmao
strong forum
the point is, that blizzard is wrong for letting it get there to begin with
zealous willow
I was especting nerfs to bdk btw after playing it in s3 😄
strong forum
everybody was
snow estuary
no huge nerfs are coming out in this season
strong forum
everybody expected nerfs for bdk and gavel
delicate kraken
they just shouldnt have introduced it though lmao
Aren't people always asking blizz to try new things?
zealous willow
Forcing all tanks to go DK , so they can use the shiny weapon is sad right ?
snow estuary
yea maybe if every class could use that new thing
strong forum
theres a difference between adding a new fun thing, and having a new fun thing be better for classes that shouldnt even be able to loot it
snow estuary
everyone can use mechagon rings, only 1 tank can use gavel
zealous willow
How i can have fun tanking with gavel when im prot warr ?
delicate kraken
theres a difference between adding a new fun thing, and having a new fun thing b...
Like warlock tier set?
topaz field
everyone who was reading patchnotes was like ah there are the WL nerfs.... still not enough (thats why it got nerfed even further) and the 2nd impression of everyone with a brain was Why the fuck is BDK not nerfed
strong forum
^
zealous willow
I was almost sure bdk will eat nerfhammer bro its so braindead class to play atm
topaz field
yep
topaz field
ye i agree him to be strong but not in every sort of content
urban portal
another problem with gavel is that so much of the power is plopping up 2h str
they would all be pretty dogshit without it
zealous willow
its mix of things , when u see their dps and when u know that he will overheal himself with 1 ds that he can use 3 times in a row with good managment like wtf?
mortal brook
bdk still thicc without gavel
mortal brook
full drw is rediculous
zealous willow
bdk with normal wep is okish , still will do more than other tanks btw
mortal brook
cuz that further translates to other things
snow tusk
Wtf is that dk hate here? Like, not even dks were that mad at any other tank in s1 and they dealt basically 0 dmg there
urban portal
nerf gavel
delicate kraken
is the argument
topaz field
i am playing with an arms in keys and literally 30-50 % of his dmg is jaithys gavel or spell reflect and that is dogshit design
snow estuary
is the argument
yea thats the exact argument
mortal brook
1 tank being 3~5 keys ahead of another tank is reasonable cause for complaint about tank balance
snow estuary
what don't you understand
vestal moat
how many ppm is RDM?
delicate kraken
what don't you understand
nerf gavel, BDKS will still be brought
snow estuary
idc
delicate kraken
as such with warlocks and sv
mortal brook
how many ppm is RDM?
2 hasted pp + the extra proc
snow estuary
thats fine
mortal brook
delicate kraken
thats fine
So nerf gavel and all the issues go away?
mortal brook
hardly
zealous willow
Warlocks still doing insane dmg , they dont take destro ,cus they dont do dmg lol
snow estuary
nerf gavel, BDKS will still be brought
no one here has a problem with dks being brought, they have a problem with dks already being the most tanky tank and getting the strongest weapon in the game
mortal brook
full drw uptime still a large issue in terms of healer attention/economy
snow estuary
just take it out and the issues go away, it never needed to be added