check out the vid on banner uptime in the pins
#protection
past locust
so. the pin says codex is not good for prot... so why is everyone running it? (according to murlok.io and sub)
lament shell
Only 1 dinar
dawn canyon
so. the pin says codex is not good for prot... so why is everyone running it? (a...
tattman is a codex believer
since his IO is high people copy him and dont think abt it
lament shell
Tattman said he has no better trinket
terse atlas
tattman is a codex believer
I watch tattman and his health bar like he doesn't take any damage in 26+ meanwhile I die in 15s xD
dawn canyon
he also argues its to prevent oneshots
lament shell
I gues he can survive with 10k hp
dawn canyon
I watch tattman and his health bar like he doesn't take any damage in 26+ meanwh...
then you arent playing properly, i can highly encourage to log some runs and pop em into #449510248579858432 so we can check up on your mistakes
terse atlas
will do next time I do keys, thanks
lament shell
You can check how weird prot warrior is if you sim yourself and check rotation
Mostly ignore pain
chrome falcon
so. the pin says codex is not good for prot... so why is everyone running it? (a...
they're wrong
past locust
he also argues its to prevent oneshots
i had someone last season depend on codex to avoid tank mechanics such as on skolex
chrome falcon
they were bad too
lament shell
You cant solo tank skolex on heroic
dawn canyon
who am i to judge tattman's reasoning, hes good im not 
hollow turtle
check out the vid on banner uptime in the pins
Is the reason to use Last Stand+Banner just more survivability or is there some mechanic I'm too Arms to understand?
past locust
no not solo tanking. just to "ignore mechanics"
chrome falcon
Is the reason to use Last Stand+Banner just more survivability or is there some ...
read your conduits
dawn canyon
Is the reason to use Last Stand+Banner just more survivability or is there some ...
last stand makes u gain more rage
more rage = longer banner
perma banner rather
chrome falcon
i explain it in the video
dawn canyon
good vidya
lament shell
no not solo tanking. just to "ignore mechanics"
You are confusing something
chrome falcon
last stand rage gives you a longer banner
hollow turtle
Aah that explains it, I keep forgetting these conduits lmao
lament shell
Thank to Matt i keep my banner 90% + in lowish keys
But i think i lost a bit on dmg cuz i cant balance revenge and ip
dawn canyon
at that point its just practice
chrome falcon
tank swapping on jailer is extremely easy
in phase 1 he does a giant raid soak mechanic
in phase 2 he does like a 5 second long cast
it's one of the most obvious tank swaps they've added
lament shell
no
mortal brook
correct
coral marsh
do i have to do sth else?
lament shell
No
mortal brook
big damage
coral marsh
do i soak as offtank?
lament shell
Almost all tank mechanics are simillar
You swap when stacks start to hurt
But on jailer ofc 1 stack(every soak
lament shell
Ye and thats how it is sometimes
With bdk is random
Sometimes they lose stacks
From parrying and ams
From my exp you can make bdk have like 7 stacks
Only makes their healing log better
sick sentinel
main problem i have against simming is either, 1 you have to do it by hand in a spreadsheet, or 2: (a) if you do it online, for free, you have to wait on it like an advertisment up to 5 to 10 minutes for a simple sim, and 2: (b) that it can be paid for to be expedited to be done instantly, which both 1 and 2 lead into 3: All hail the simulation machine.
i totally get why it exists i don't want to see them removed logs are good, just, you see the raw numbers and its like, well, can't argue with that! and then you (i) give up
undone verge
Sims are messy
In season 3 I out dpsed my sims on even patchwork sims compared to light-heavy movement fights
dawn canyon
well sims aggregate multiple "runs"
sick sentinel
i don't even feel that its innately a bad thing, i just feel like it gets very real quickly when your microdissecting a fight that you as a paladin have +17% move speed, so you have to move out 0.7 seconds of the void zone while someone can wait 1.3 seconds before they have to go
dawn canyon
so the dps varies and then gets averaged out
ofc ill beat my sim dps with godly procs
dawn canyon
procs can make that big of a difference
undone verge
I mean this was a common occurrence, like multiple fights all 1-2k ahead of my sims.
mortal brook
find the difference, tbh
do sim that matches your situation
and some things just have a wide skew
a patchwerk will swing at you once every 2.5s or something. if you're in content where boss is swinging more often, or multiple things attack more often, its more revenge, more feedback loop, more dam, and the sim isnt reflecting your situation.
or any number of other differences
zealous willow
Can someone answer me why druids are atm lower rio tanks , what aspect they are worst ?
mortal brook
i dont have windfury toggled, but an enchantment shaman showed up this week. insta my performance is higher than the sim
mortal brook
Can someone answer me why druids are atm lower rio tanks , what aspect they are ...
5 tanks can pull around the dps' cooldowns. the bear is tied to its own cooldown, and not stronk outside it
sick sentinel
im not the best person to ask on this but i heard its something along the lines of bear druid is useless outside of incarn
mortal brook
an overexaggeration, but basically
sick sentinel
i did preface it lol
undone verge
find the difference, tbh
We did, ran a sim same fight length with the same execute length and with more buffs than I had at the time and I still out dpsed my sim by a fair amount
sick sentinel
i don't play a druid or bear druid, despite the name
mortal brook
🤷 then find the discrepancy
like running a single target sim then going into sepulchur where there is not a single target fight in the entire place
is okay to say the sims are wrong, is better to ask where they are wrong and adjust, ye?
undone verge
Skolex is single target, still running off of ST boss dmg. We ran multiple sims. Chalked it up to something about executes dmg
sick sentinel
all what i mean is, i think 90% of players, even who want to run up to just 15 keys on time, shouldn't have to worry about running a simulation, i think that should be for players doing above 20 keys and heroic and beyond raiding
mortal brook
Fated affix
undone verge
This was 9.2
zinc shale
Quick question, Soloing the trash @ first boss in Workshop as Prot, is this possible?
mortal brook
if there was a problem with execute damage, what was it?
undone verge
Im not a sim expert, but executes dmg compared to my damage during the fight was way lower than it should have been
mortal brook
got nerds like @strong forum that can look at things and adjust to make more accurate. thats what the color is for
chrome falcon
Quick question, Soloing the trash @ first boss in Workshop as Prot, is this poss...
buddy do i have a video for you
zinc shale
Quick question, Soloing the trash @ first boss in Workshop as Prot, is this poss...
@strong forum Have you attempted this?
strong forum
only like once
zinc shale
buddy do i have a video for you
Nice, I've never done it at lower keys & now i'm only pushing higher keys
Where i dont want to attempt it xD Especially last week with sanguine
chrome falcon
nah shit's so easy
mortal brook
<:okayge:917646812519739433>
zinc shale
Aight nice, havent taken the time to look it up hehe
chrome falcon
zinc shale
304 Enforcer in vault, seems to be overtaking everything I have to throw at the sim
steel ruin
304 Enforcer in vault, seems to be overtaking everything I have to throw at the ...
Enforcer ? what is it ? a trinket ?
chrome falcon
stun grenade
mortal brook
stun grenade
chrome falcon
stun grenade
mortal brook
stun grenade
stun grenade
zinc shale
STUN GRENADE
steel ruin
STUN GRENADE
God dayum
chrome falcon
ˢᵗᵘⁿ ᵍʳᵉⁿᵃᵈᵉ
mortal brook
𝖘𝖙𝖚𝖓 𝖌𝖗𝖊𝖓𝖆𝖉𝖊
zinc shale
2nd opt is 304 shoulders vs 291
zinc shale
2? You get one socket with 6 of those tokens
undone verge
Here’s more of what I’m talking about. 3 minute patchwork compared to 3:30 skolex fight. Execute was cast twice as much in the sim as it was in my skolex kill, yet it did 300k less dmg. Which could mean it’s being used below 40 rage, but with twice as many buffs as me, I see no reason why it wouldn’t at least be high 30s for every single cast due outburst and avatar reprisal and demo shout
And there is the fated buff to consider but I don’t believe there was one around execute phase, but still this was the same issue in S3
undone verge
They changed it in season 4 to cost 3 tokens
hazy edge
Here’s more of what I’m talking about. 3 minute patchwork compared to 3:30 skole...
yup you're correct. The sim is using execute at 20 rage instead of 40 at times. I'll throw in a fix and push it. Depending on when it's pulled it should be in the nightly build today or tomorrow.
dawn canyon
For Arms execute is same DPR at 20 and 40, is this different for prot
undone verge
yup you're correct. The sim is using execute at 20 rage instead of 40 at times. ...
Appreciate it
hazy edge
For Arms execute is same DPR at 20 and 40, is this different for prot
40 rage should be higher than 20. The rage refund also matters a bit in terms of how many you can get out, spending at 40 lets you get a few more out than 20, at least for prot.
dawn canyon
makes sense
mortal brook
Effectively its spending too much gcd on execute and losing feedback loop, then?
Pogga a fix. We are the theory craft
strong forum
but that shouldnt matter
mortal brook
Heck, untheorycraft
hazy edge
it won't matter too much
it'll just mean slightly less executes with slightly more damage
undone verge
Doesn’t it also matter that you aren’t maximizing that gcd, say you have an outburst stack and have 20 rage, if you outburst for 20k at least then execute for 40-50k that’s 2 gcds dealing 70/80k where as if you execute at 20 rage that’s maybe 15k (don’t know the number too well correct me if I’m wrong) then you outburst and execute that’s 3 gcds that breaks the feedback loop doing maybe 75-85k. In the first scenario too when you’re at 20 rage and outburst to 65 (I believe again don’t know numbers top of my head) you can SS for 20k (at least) then execute for 40-50k, then refunded rage should take you close enough to 40 where as an auto in this time will grant enough rage to be at or around 40 so you can execute again for 40-50k meaning it can be around 30-40k more dmg for that gcd. At least that’s my take
strong forum
if dpr is same it doesnt matter
in reality, its actually better to send smaller executes cuz of the reset chance on SS
cuz dmg and refund scales linear on execute
hazy edge
also to be fair it was maybe 1 out of every 5 executes that was spending less than 40 rage
and in some cases it was like 35
which wouldn't change anything really
undone verge
But aren’t those executes also accounting for 10 or so gcds that could have gone to SS. Like during execute phase I almost always have a SS up, which I usually only use when below 35 or so rage
lofty widget
shouldnt you still SS on cd inexecute
strong forum
ofc
mortal brook
So then where is the problem
strong forum
in my 3:27kill, i sent 21 executes, on sim that was 18
diff is that i crit 20% more in reality
undone verge
Still doesn’t explain why my sim sends 42 executes but does 300k less dmg, meaning execute did 12k on average
molten dock
Yo! I just made a warrior for the first time and wanted to try out tanking for the first time, would you recommend leveling in Prot to learn the rotations properly? And when would I hold aggro enough to start tanking dungeons?
chrome falcon
you won't learn anything about the class from leveling
and you generate enough aggro just by being protection
molten dock
Sweet thanks
south zealot
you can level in prot just to learn the abilities
but it wont help you much for learning how to play it at high levels
molten dock
Sounds like the guides are the way to go at end game
south zealot
yeah and just practice
molten dock
Sweet thank you both!
undone verge
Ive found leveling as prot can help with the loop of revenge into SS, but the issue is you prob won’t ever have enough rage to reach the IP threshold of 75ish rage
Outside of Demo shout
hazy edge
Still doesn’t explain why my sim sends 42 executes but does 300k less dmg, meani...
it's also the case that a lot of the prot war stuff in simc is just 🍝 and hacked together and things tend to not work the best. Biggest example is charge, you lose out on half of the casts because the sim doesn't know how to charge weave which is a lot of wasted reprisal uses.
undone verge
Yo! I just made a warrior for the first time and wanted to try out tanking for t...
Also you don’t even reach the revenge can reset SS until level 21 I believe and you don’t get an aoe till level 12 in revenge
strong forum
level 28
undone verge
Is it that high
Yikes
I was leveling a prot the other day to do some horde stuff and it didn’t really feel like a prot warrior till around 40-45ish
coral marsh
anduin p3 when there is the pool you soak in p1, do you also soak in p3? it just killed me
undone verge
Befouled barrier?
strong forum
Here’s more of what I’m talking about. 3 minute patchwork compared to 3:30 skole...
can you link sim
coral marsh
the circle you soak normally with the raid
strong forum
i think your issue is, is that its quicksim
undone verge
Might be, I’ll run an advanced 3 min patchwork
edgy grail
The only people taking damage there are the tanks if you do the stars correctly
So just stand outside and everyone can soak
undone verge
Can’t don’t have simc input string
strong forum
ya, on 3min quicksim it sens 40 executes
hazy edge
Might be, I’ll run an advanced 3 min patchwork
also use nightly not weekly
undone verge
Makes sense
undone verge
anduin p3 when there is the pool you soak in p1, do you also soak in p3? it just...
What difficulty are you on?
coral marsh
doesnt matter its dead
strong forum
the p3 pool is only to clear debuffs
mortal brook
Why is the quicksim different
hazy edge
Can’t don’t have simc input string
there's also this handy button when you import from armory
edgy grail
Ohh p3
coral marsh
do i have to do sth else on ryg than tankswap and soak the little circles and move boss to corners?
edgy grail
undone verge
What difficulty
coral marsh
hc
edgy grail
Has a guide for every boss and spec specific stuff
mortal brook
Nope thats it. Chaotic motes are on the downphases
undone verge
Alright running advanced nightly sim
toxic pewter
1 tank soaks the first explosion and other tank does 2nd explosion
explosion happens after orb dies
coral marsh
does it matter who has aggro atm?
toxic pewter
I mean if you get first explosion its prob good for other tank to have aggro then you can taunt when he get 2nd explosion
but i guess if you both survive its not the biggest deal ever
strong forum
21 executes
undone verge
Execute only sent 21 casts this time but still is Crit-ing for 4k less than my average cast on skolex
strong forum
its a debuff
undone verge
Debuff k I’ll check
undone verge
It was up for the first part of execute phase, but would that partial buff on execute phase be an 8k increase in avg hit?
mortal brook
Big chunk of Crit mastery vers avoid or something
sweet summit
thanks a lot man appreciate it
potent anvil
Sense gonna win 🙏
toxic pewter
strong forum
oblique garnet
Ty
mortal brook
kinda want to see a dungeon where they just turn on every affix
every seasonal, every deleted, all of em
overflowing was ignorable by 5/6 healers and 6/6 tanks
stark lance
Is it wrong to be a kryian spear enjoyer as prot
sick sentinel
great push back on
stark lance
Particularly for pugs the damage is great
mortal brook
but yes. every affix. overflowing, teeming, skittish, all the seasonals
nah spear is fine. fine is fine
sweet summit
what the fuck
sick sentinel
ah someone died lol
sweet summit
steve you are a psychopath
sick sentinel
oldge in trouble
mortal brook
yes
infested infiltrators
tormentors on beguiling
not like, everyone
but make it spicy
sick sentinel
i still like idea of always bring rogue, rogue deletes mage, mage not deleting tank, healer happy
mortal brook
okay but one of the awakened is zulgamax
just gotta do it for like, one dungeon tho
time it on a 10, get a title or pet or feat or something
zealous willow
How u deal with lower this week
sick sentinel
no i have better idea, you cant destroy or delete it, and it has 4 of the previous +10 affixes (encrypted infested awakened etc)
zealous willow
I have problems with lower
sick sentinel
you can change it but you can never get rid of it or bring it below a 15
undone verge
Lets go JY
delicate parrot
Any reccs for good prot warrior streamers/content creators
zealous willow
They cant dodge waves and flames on first boss..
mortal brook
just like these guys
undone verge
Any reccs for good prot warrior streamers/content creators
I’m not the best person to ask, the only people I know who stream and play pwarrior are plka and sense. But idk if they play pwarrior in live
coral marsh
on dreads i have double mitigation of the monk but i just die before him
are the healer not caring or what is this
he also gets twice my healing
coral marsh
he obviously has higher selfheal but thats it
how are you using your cooldowns there?
undone verge
What’s ur healing taken % from the healers?
coral marsh
10 % he got 20 % but i died before him cause no heals
when i watched on death i had double mitigation
undone verge
10% of ur healing taken was from the healers?
undone verge
Monks generally have higher healing taken tho right? Cause of celestial fortune
Go to healing taken in details under healing, then check how much of your healing was from you by hovering over ur name
lime urchin
Any reccs for good prot warrior streamers/content creators
Sense, Plka and Tattman
orchid frigate
i dont get how heroic leap works in the gauntlet in workshop. sometimes i can jump over the bots and sometime i dont
same in junkyard when i jump over the electric thingys i end up stunned when i land
undone verge
When you heroic leap imagine your hitbox traveling on the ground. If it works traveling over bots or something it’s probably the speed at which you travel bugs out sometimes and it doesn’t register you traveling through it
orchid frigate
alright. so i should never count on it working
undone verge
I’d imagine the way the bots detect you is it checks every game tick to see if there’s a player in the circle and if you time it right maybe you can get in between these game ticks, but that’s just a theory
Yeah, better to do it normally since counting on the bug happening can burn you
undone verge
Yeah it’s annoying
orchid frigate
Any reccs for good prot warrior streamers/content creators
also www.twitch.tv/revvez
oblique garnet
You leap from before the spinning beams all the way to the top or on a side near the end where there is no bot
and it works 100% of the time
revvez doesnt stream prot
orchid frigate
he does
oblique garnet
since when o.O
orchid frigate
since a couple of weeks back i think
hazy edge
had like 95%+ uptime on banner in every key
oblique garnet
Well tbh thats expected
uncut dome
Is intrusive thoughtcage worth anything or directly into vendor?
oblique garnet
Revvez does own 
uncut dome
running codex and soleah
undone verge
Codex is bad
orchid frigate
Revvez does own <:deswind:533073964096946176>
true!
undone verge
Idk how good intrusive thought cage is
uncut dome
Yeah kinda meh about it
oblique garnet
What is that
undone verge
Establish a link deep within your target's mind, increasing your dodge rating by 273, and draining 14,715 health over 6 sec. If the link is still intact when this effect ends, their mind shatters, dealing 1823 Shadow damage to enemies within 8 yds of them and Horrifying them for 3 sec.
south zealot
LETS GOOO
urban portal
Doesn’t that have a 3 minute cd
urban portal
What’s the cd
undone verge
Looking
urban portal
The damage seems ok
undone verge
3 min
urban portal
Yeah that’s the problem
I think a pre nerf scale healed for like 40-50k on st
2 min
undone verge
S1 scale was fun
urban portal
Yeah it gives strength
south zealot
SHEEESH JUNKYARD
t
undone verge
32 time
delicate parrot
also www.twitch.tv/revvez
Thnx
undone verge
U guys think it’s gonna go to 35?
uncut dome
Yeah it gives strength <:okayge:917646812519739433>
thanks!
urban portal
codex inherently is mediocre
and not giving strength ruins it
are all the dks running codex in great push
do we knwo
dawn canyon
!gear in chat
dawn canyon
shut summit
i think me and qazi did RDM and rest were codex?
urban portal
dang
i wish i had their logs then
iwanna compare
but codex does hypothetically let you pull more
which is a group dps up
back to vtuber i go
hows your sunday sense
undone verge
Holy pally?????
shut summit
good now that i can not do m+ for 5hrs straight
mortal brook
that's just good sense right there 
urban portal
yeah idk how people can do it
running like 30 hours of m+ a week
most of the raiders in echo/limit have real jobs right
undone verge
I run like 8 max then get whisper spammed whenever I log in to do more keys
stable valve
Worth buying a RDM if I can’t make it a heroic one until after I clear sanctum again?
oblique garnet
Sure
undone verge
I feel like holy priest is just better tho, there has to be some tech running that holy pally, or they’re preparing for a 35s dmg going out
stable valve
Or do I sit on my lfr OWS and turn RDM heroic first?
urban portal
is elles running venth or necro
undone verge
Yeah it’s necro
oblique garnet
I feel like holy priest is just better tho, there has to be some tech running th...
Holy priest is better for the wlock damages
and mage i guess
but when you get onetapped
nothing you can do
lament shell
Why are the keys world first keys if they are not on live and with all bis gear
Or i just understand it wrong
undone verge
The runs don’t go on leaderboard, but they’re the world first keys of that level done
It’s a bit weird since higher keys were done on time trials but that’s how they’re doing it
Anyone know what JY got to on tournament realms time trials?
Oh it wasn’t
Cool
sonic crag
You don't know what you don't know
echo egret
Worth a run or two to Darkheart Thicket ?
south zealot
absolutely no one remembers the BfA routes for JY
?
coral marsh
what cds do you cycle to solo soak on rygelon?
stuck crown
so i have a macro that pops banner, LS and ava and ive noticed sometimes it insta cancels my banner? is that a thing or just me?
stuck crown
ah ok i pop it as going in so i might be like .5 or 1 sec too quick
ill chill on popping it
drifting fable
can pop it while you are mid charge to the boss
vernal vale
Soloed the final boss of grimrail from 40% to 0
the demon hunter in that run complained that i wasnt a dk at the start too
sweet summit
fossil spindle
hey quick question warrior fam
im a little confused with the gear listings for whats good for us as prot warriors for a weapon. the list of best gear for us shows the weapon from denathrius that we buy with a token as BiS, but the second item on the list for us to purchase with a dinar is a sword?
im not sure which is the best option for us
oblique garnet
Shield?
oblique garnet
Are you raiding mythic?
fossil spindle
im a heroic raider
oblique garnet
RDm?
fossil spindle
huh
fossil spindle
ahh, i do not have that, its the 4th option on my dinar list, the other trinket i was pushing for was the shard from the nine
i heard its the best one for us but the only reason to not waste a dinar on it first was cuz ows was harder to get
south zealot
id just go rdm then
fossil spindle
ahh ok
oblique garnet
Its good for damage too
strong forum
If you only do 15s then matrix is only going to do mediocre dmg
fossil spindle
my wep is just some 278 i got last season
strong forum
Pwar doesn't take enough dmg for rdm to get fully broken on such low keys
fossil spindle
havnt had a wep drop
strong forum
And aegis, as late said, makes no sense to run below like 25s
fossil spindle
i see
strong forum
We are the tank that benefits the least from defensive trinkets
mighty valley
if you ever offspec you could just grab a gavel
fossil spindle
currently as my other trinket i have a 291 decanter because i got it in my first S4 vault and it was a huge upgrade from some 259 trink i had
strong forum
Decanter is alright, nothing fancy
fossil spindle
in my bags i have a 285 remote device from mechagon
strong forum
I could honestly not tell you a good trinket to buy for 15s if you have ows already
Sfa I guess from guardian is solid
sweet summit
unironically scars or
fossil spindle
ok no worries, so it kinda leaves me questiong what to use my 2nd dinar for
strong forum
And if you're pugging matrix is still solid cuz you'll still take dmg
ocean yoke
strong forum
Sigil is omega hard to get value out of m+
Scars is good I guess ye
I like earthbreakers impact, but I wouldn't spend a dinar on it
real fossil
How is the tuning on the jy motorcycle trinket
strong forum
It's alright, all in all it does like 500 dps
But it can ninja pull
So it can wipe you in dungeons like lower and JY quite easily 
undone verge
Sad we’ll never see a 35 JY on live cause that means at best they have to 3 chest some other 32, which will never happen, or time a 33/34 of another dungeon which I don’t even think could be possible in this pool
Although I suppose maybe fort streets could go to a 33ish
chrome falcon
can't you get a JY off a JY?
strong forum
No
chrome falcon
hm yeah seems pretty unlikely then
undone verge
Key can’t turn into same key
chrome falcon
i wouldn't be surprised if keys get some nerfs though just to make the season more fun and pushable
undone verge
I could see people getting a 35 key via 3 chest 32 JY, but even that would be super hard and no way to turn that 35 into a JY
undone verge
how good would a soleah trinket be for us
It’s good, there are better ones tho
We need two free dungeons in the pool lol
What would a good counter to JY be? Freehold?
Run Freehold+JY all the way to a 35
chrome falcon
I could see people getting a 35 key via 3 chest 32 JY, but even that would be su...
fail the timer and get one from your weekly?
undone verge
I was thinking about that. It would be possible if you did a 31 JY get a 34/33 key, brick it, just complete, get a 33/32 from vault (JY, get a 35/34 from vault, brick-34/33 so on and so fourth, but I don’t see how you could get a 35 since you’d need to time a 35 to actually get a 35, so you’d have to time a 34 of a non JY. But I assume keys on live can go over 35, so maybe 3 chest a 33 JY then brick the 36. The issue would be completing the 36 in general, then hope for a 35 JY from vault/brick
sick sentinel
thos sleep clouds aer giga troll man
undone verge
Not on tourney realm
chrome falcon
big cringe to make your tourney all about pushing as hard as possible
undone verge
It’s capped at 35
chrome falcon
and not... letting people do that
undone verge
I think the tourney should let them choose the key level tbh and affixes
sick sentinel
imagine if oldge wins tho
chrome falcon
choosing affixes would be pointless
sick sentinel
bunch of boomers wins mdi
chrome falcon
and i think the idea of level being a real mechanic
mellow bridge
Affixes would just be bursting volcanic everywhere lmao
undone verge
Exactly
It’s the great push, I wanna see how hard they can push
With perfect conditions
sick sentinel
they could do a hot fix for shock bots to 35
sick sentinel
i know that cauterize trumps NF cheat death
undone verge
But I’m pretty sure they both proc at the same time lmao
sick sentinel
if u don't die u never lose ur buffs and then u do more dmg to kill the boss
sick sentinel
i got ice block, pod, cauterize, and mechagnome failsafe, life is good
toxic pewter
Wait these runs are being counted on raider io?
undone verge
Did they fix it so they no longer both proc?
undone verge
Wait these runs are being counted on raider io?
Yeah that was the 35 mecha
toxic pewter
Ok good
undone verge
blazing condor
Old weave would actually kill you and work like a soul stone. If you had splinter as well the splinter would proc first, then when you died you could revive with weave and now the splinter debuff was gone
Rine repeat
undone verge
But since they changed weave to actually proc off a killing blow I thought weave and alar both procd off the same killing blow
blazing condor
they probably proc the same or smth
toxic pewter
I’m sure hes not wearing both for no reason though
blazing condor
Its two wasted trinket slots anyway
sick sentinel
i dunno who but i recall hearing about some shaman that couldn't give a fuck to do the spikes on painsmit, so they would just equip 2 cheat death trinkets and get SS and other externals whole fight
undone verge
I feel like I asked a while back and was told they don’t work separate
sick sentinel
said he had like, 9 for the whole fight ways to stop spike deaths, or get around it, or maybe they just chain brezed him
toxic pewter
Oh it may be a mistake
undone verge
Might be a RIO thing
oblique garnet
Wouldnt have made it without 
cobalt seal
ambi stars are kinda MonkaS
zealous willow
Since when dk's' went NF
undone verge
Since when dk's' went NF
Since they don’t need the haste from Kyrian cause of the season affix
chrome falcon
oldge sadge
undone verge
Rip
cobalt seal
Since they don’t need the haste from Kyrian cause of the season affix
both of you are cop
First NF was never bad
since season 1
2nd Kyrian lost some value to lost of relics for ez spread and other stuff (but it's still really good)
coral marsh
Any tips on jailer hc fated? It's always a clusterfuck.
shut summit
embrace the cluster
delicate iron
Dispelling affix at right moment and making sure they are soaked is what I noticed makes a difference
Some badly timed dispells will wipe raid
coral marsh
when do you dispel?
clever heart
is vigilant shield our bis shield ? or are there any other options
chrome falcon
it's good defensively against autos
mighty valley
lords shield, sylv shield, slg shield
chrome falcon
but worse in every other way compared to a regular shield
and also yeah
it's 7 ilvls lower than those 3
paper coral
Hey guys, i'm looking at the wowhead guide, and it says to use devastator as the level 15 talent, but then it says to use devastate as filler in the rotation. How does that work?
south zealot
Hey guys, i'm looking at the wowhead guide, and it says to use devastator as the...
if you didnt take devastator for whatever reason, use devastate as a filler
clever heart
but worse in every other way compared to a regular shield
so is a 304 m+ shield or even 298 m+ shield just better ? than a 291 Vigilant shield ?
chrome falcon
no
ilvl >>>>>>> all
on shields
no exceptions
304 terrible shield > 301 good shield
paper coral
if you didnt take devastator for whatever reason, use devastate as a filler
And if I do, do I have a filler?
chrome falcon
you do not have a "filler"
clever heart
ahh gotcha. ok cool ! sadge casuse the vigilant effect looks cool. but just looking to use strongest option
chrome falcon
in the sense that all our abilities either cost rage or have a CD
but at max level with vaguely correct play you will always be pressing a gcd
south zealot
yeah when youre leveling you might have downtomd
cinder storm
After reading how bad lower was I thought to myself "it can't be that bad"...it was worse, way worse, f lower
south zealot
but at max even if you tried you cant run out of globals
paper coral
I'm fresh back to retail so i'm looking for guides and advice and trying not to ask dumb questions here.
south zealot
ask whatever here
paper coral
Well, too many questions.
south zealot
we encourage prot gamers
paper coral
I was prot in vanilla and up to mid-wrath, then I bounced around. always liked tanking.
south zealot
After reading how bad lower was I thought to myself "it can't be that bad"...it ...
if you dont bug abuse on the first boss its nearly impossible with players around that key level
like doing a 22 with like 2300 players will not happen
its sooooo dumb
cinder storm
What bug?
cinder storm
Sounds to me like fair play
As it is, it seems you are supposed to kill monkeys and cleave bosses, so might as well do it that way
south zealot
which one is na next
westfall?
eh on fort thats pretty free
easier for me bc i dont have to deal with forks kekw
floral solar
When do the operas change because its westfall right now on eu
Is it not tied to the reset?
oblique garnet
On reset
floral solar
Wait, misread a couple of messages and thought people were saying westfall was next week
Mb.
cobalt seal
Wait, misread a couple of messages and thought people were saying westfall was ...
it is on NA
oblique garnet
Yep
floral solar
As an aside. Any tips for tanking westfall? Seems to me just have the mobs off center and hope dps don't die while kicking what you can.
paper coral
Do we use WW as prot?
floral solar
Nope.
dawn canyon
Put revenge there
floral solar
The guides are a good place to start. Some advice Matta gave me which helps a lot is make sure your Ignore Pain bind is easy to hit a lot and not on a modifier.
cobalt seal
dont you stop using WW at lvl 15 or so
paper coral
Yeah, i have it on my version of 1.
paper coral
Gotcha. i'm more looking at like shattering throw or hamstring.
floral solar
Don't think I have ever used hamstring since TC also slows.
oblique garnet
As an aside. Any tips for tanking westfall? Seems to me just have the mobs off c...
You aoe stun casters/fear casters and kick
We have 3 stun rotation into kicks
And by that time they should be dead
Depending on key lvl ofc
floral solar
Ah okay. So its a don't PuG week then.
oblique garnet
Yeah
Because you need a gamer healer to deal with explos
We cant get all of them
I mean we can but we drop banner and then die
floral solar
Fair. Good to know.
I'll just focus on the other keys.
I really hope the old dungeons they bring back for M+ in DF are less problematic than both karas.
oblique garnet
Upper is kinda free
Always
Lower is easy too if opera isnt bad with affix combo
floral solar
As someone who mostly PuGs its a shit show.
vernal vale
fuck does no one understand wicket
naive panther
Any of you play bdk? War even have a chance. Playing my scrub dk and it just seems too easy. Plus don't have to mess with reprisal challenges.
vernal vale
three pulls and i was the only one who went up
south zealot
ive been gearing a dk alt
vernal vale
it wasnt even a high lower kara it was only an 8
south zealot
if i have rune weapon up im literally unkillable
tanking like 15 adds at 250 ilvl
on an 8 i wouldnt expect anyone to know mechanics
vernal vale
i was just like i have a 4 from week one and i should probably bump it up and i have limited time
can blow through an 8 give someone a fast carry
but its not possible to carry when you are the only one living through a mechanic on a boss
vernal vale
that dungeon is just rough in general sadly
and only because of opera as far as i'm concerned
warm plinth
@oblique garnet hi ily
fringe dirge
for the pinned post regarding spending dinars, is that updatedish?
im trying to figure what to spend it on atm
currently thinking of getting the shield, as its my biggest ilvl upgrade
wraith timber
are there any trinkets or pieces of gear that we want out of legion M+?
mighty valley
Faulty Countermeasure from VotW sims good but I wouldn’t kill yourself trying to get it
wraith timber
gotcha
south zealot
currently thinking of getting the shield, as its my biggest ilvl upgrade
either shield or ows are mainly your 2 options. you can get a shield easier than you can ows but a shield is the biggest immediate upgrade you can get
sonic crag
I came from BDK last season to prot warrior this season.
I can say I feel when CDs like DRW are up I felt unkillable. Outside of those I didn't like the yo-yo health bar. Prot warrior I feel tanky at all times, and like my CDs are meaningful to gameplay.
Downside, my poor wrist and keyboard with this Reprisal build lol.
paper coral
I came from BDK last season to prot warrior this season.
I can say I feel when...
BDK's as a yoyo is apt, because good BDKs control the strings. A good one can handle the yoyos.
doesn't make them better, just different.
sonic crag
For sure it works. Reason they are the meta. But I didn't like it
paper coral
reprisal build?
lilac hill
Oh man…Prot feels incredible with the shrouded affix (first time back since 9.1)
south zealot
just dont lose shieldblock and you pretty much are
fringe dirge
either shield or ows are mainly your 2 options. you can get a shield easier than...
im currently using defense matrix(291) and annhylde's aegis (265), shield is currently at 233 ilvl
urban portal
yeah thats fine
get a shield
upgrade it later
especially since y ou dont really need dinars
already have dfense matrix and aegis
just need ows,shield, and maybe gavel if you wanna play dps
fringe dirge
sounds good, ty
undone verge
Annoying thing about prot vs bdk is even if you drop DRW you can still maintain a good control over your survivability, but with prot, if you aren’t paying attention to Shieldblock, or somehow drop banner you can spiral into death pretty quickly
That’s what I’ve noticed about prot , it’s hard to drop mitigation by accident, but you are gonna feel it if you do
naive panther
A little downtime doesn't hurt bdk. Where war gotta keep going.
Bdk just stupid easy. I'd love to make war good. I've been playing 4 tanks a bit. War dk dh and monk.
dreamy wedge
Keeping up banner is a bitch sometimes; so much button spam required
waxen frigate
cant extend it at all without unity xD
fringe dirge
im just glad i put my ignore pain on mouse wheel up
dreamy wedge
im just glad i put my ignore pain on mouse wheel up
Reminds me of the Wrath heroic strike days where you literally couldn't vomit rage out quick enough
fringe dirge
god, my muscle memory still remembers tapping heroic strike between every other gcd
dreamy wedge
If you were tanking with lust it was sometimes like every .8 seconds you had to slap it out; back in the day one of our offtanks started developing carpal tunnel from too much warrior lol
fringe dirge
yeah, im slightly amazed how my hands aren't super fucked up
dreamy wedge
So assuming I'm not struggling to keep up banner in normal situations (i.e. when mob groups are apart yada yada and I can't hit things to keep it up), is Booming Voice still better? I don't like using defensives rotationally like it makes you do to get value out of it
cinder nova
yeah, im slightly amazed how my hands aren't super fucked up
How old are you serious question. I thought the same at 18-20, but now that I'm almost 30 it's serious fatigue if I'm not careful
Granted, still go hard in the paint, but it'll catch up
urban portal
So assuming I'm not struggling to keep up banner in normal situations (i.e. when...
Both are viable
Bv is much better in raid
That being said I’m sure dragons roar isn’t that bad on st but idk
dreamy wedge
Both are viable
Oh I figured that BV was way better for raid tanking, but I never really get to do that, I just tank my guild's weekly M+ runs
urban portal
Then just go bsc
cinder nova
And it's worth less than BV
dreamy wedge
The only time I'm dropping banner atm is when I'm forced to or when my healer needs to drink because he overheals too much
urban portal
That being said you have to be good at prot war to actively use bsc
Then yeah no issue with using bsc
cinder nova
Legit going to be doing less damage because it affects your AM returns too
urban portal
Literally run a sim
cinder nova
We have so much rage that it directly impacts our out put across multiple vectors when we lose it
cinder nova
Dungeon Sims aren't functioning
urban portal
Aoe sims are perfectly fine on prot
cinder nova
Dungeon slice isn't worth using lol
cinder nova
Aoe Sim isn't going to be close to accurate rep for a dungeon overall
urban portal
like he said
he doesnt like using BV offensively and he can have 100% banner uptime
so its perfectly viable
BSC is better in 4+ targets
and BSC also under sims because it doesnt charge as often as in game
you can play both
especially in 15s tanking
honestly
be this one chad that played punish
god damn this guy really forgot to take devastator
and didnt cast devastate once
dreamy wedge
How do you even do that and not notice it's gone??
cinder nova
Same way you play BSC, just zugzug it 
south zealot
what is bsc
urban portal
best served cold
cinder nova
Best Served Cold
urban portal
revenge damage
urban portal
its fine
its not that much of a loss
its definitely a QOL up
bv is
btw i never took bsc ever
like since 9.0.5
cinder nova
And it's just objectively better. It's so much more than just offensive use. You have it for almost every major pull open, it's defensive value is front-loaded and comes quickly into subsequent pulls or long minibosses.
urban portal
i just dont like a purely offensive row
cinder nova
The nature and cadence of M+ has as much impact to how we build as raw simming, and it's also why things like AOE sims aren't really great indicators of M+ output.
south zealot
i always go bsc
cinder nova
no wrinkles
shadow haven
Hey, I pretty much stopped playing shadowlands immedietly at launch and came back now for fated raids and playing prot warr, is it safe to just craft necrolord legendary in belt if I can't be bothered to grind rep for unity? Seems like all the warrior specs in all content seem to be favoring necrolord so it feels kinda safe
dreamy wedge
^You don't want to give up reprisal
severe hatch
The 2nd leggo MUST be Unity, cannot be a cov-specific
south zealot
its worth
dreamy wedge
For now that's fine
shadow haven
The 2nd leggo MUST be Unity, cannot be a cov-specific
shite
dreamy wedge
Who cares
urban portal
its worth giving up 26 ilvls on a slot for a second legendary
shadow haven
ye ye, how long does it take to get revered?
urban portal
a while
south zealot
id just use the belt and craft reprisal
urban portal
ye
shadow haven
alright, guess I'll just stay content with the 265 belt
shadow haven
i crafted reprisal on boots
i don't have a better belt was just hoping i could get a 291 lego fast so its all fine
Prot warr is very fun thougg
shadow haven
why were all the guides saying to craft it on boots then? smh
south zealot
sorry if confusing
shadow haven
all good then!
shadow haven
maybe another tank would have fit the feeling better but I've pretty much always played bursty casters like warlock, fire mage, ele sham and just wanted to tank and prot warr really gives a nice bursty feeling i felt back then when you pop your cooldowns and go ham
urban portal
honestly no tank really has huge burst outside of bear
and maybe pal
warrior isnt about huge moments of damage
south zealot
mostly just bear
urban portal
its about consistent 90 apm
south zealot
but i like the outburst
it feels consistently bursty
especially if u get sweet crits
shadow haven
I thought about bear but doesent bear struggle because they dont have anything to reduce the cooldown on their cds like warrior with anger managenent and so on
thorn spruce
Why am I garbage :(
thorn spruce
Am garbage
south zealot
i should rlly go booming voice and ravager again
thorn spruce
Thats a 55s banner on a dummy
urban portal
should def go ravager
south zealot
i lose so much uptime going for UF kekw
uf is hella fun but im kinda just trolling for fun
shadow haven
I was also thinking tanks burstiness in dragonflight and I think druids are losing stufd that makes them so good now, damage always depends in tuning anyway I remember prot warrs doing ludicrous damage at end of bfa
mortal brook
Their tier got nerfed twice
thorn spruce
Why the heck are you here steve?
shadow haven
I think at least monk and bdk are the least "bursty" in a sense but I may be wrong, paladin, warr and dh looked like the candidates, because its important to have a big dps cooldown
south zealot
dk has good burst with gavel if you count that
urban portal
yea
mortal brook
Why the heck are you here steve?
urban portal
and warrior isnt bursty either
shadow haven
They are actually keeping their DRW cd reduction in draginflight so that may be changing
urban portal
They are actually keeping their DRW cd reduction in draginflight so that may be ...
isnt it like giga nerfed though
shadow haven
and warrior isnt bursty either
it can potential thougg right
shadow haven
isnt it like giga nerfed though
uhh I didnt check the details but I saw it was a talent
shadow haven
:(
urban portal
blood is flat between gavel casts
shadow haven
where is this from?
urban portal
simc
shadow haven
they have something like this for all classes?
urban portal
you dont get penis looking graphs like warlock does
theres no tanks that are like this
if thats what you are looking for
urban portal
actually bear has a little bit of burst
you can see the little pumps every minute
so if you want burst its definitely bear
shadow haven
stuff like this was always my fav but I was losing my mind of the limitations of being only able to dps
shadow haven
huh?
south zealot
with what?
shadow haven
wheres the burst coming from
south zealot
ox
?
urban portal
no idea
shadow haven
bear i understand
thorn spruce
stomp
shadow haven
druids are venthyr right?
urban portal
druids can be both
i screenshotted fae
fae gives you the mini bursts and venthyr gives you the huge bursts
mortal brook
And by mini
urban portal
mortal brook
I mean tiny as fuck
urban portal
yeah its actually tiny
but at least you can go cat and convoke?
thats burst?
if you arent tanking actively?
shadow haven
They not owlweaving anymore like in beginning?
mortal brook
Since tier its not worth to cat weave cuz no gg, no draught
urban portal
sounds about right
but yeah my point is
if you want burst play venthyr bear or brew i guess
pally seems ok too
dreamy wedge
Brew's burst is probably Nizhao or w/e the bull summon thing is
urban portal
dave
shadow haven
lusty grotto
@south zealot idk if you had the same confusion as me regarding revenge procs but... they count towards Seeing Red (not extending banner)
urban portal
yeah revenge procs are weird
south zealot
interesting ty
lusty grotto
yeah i was like hold up ive seen it do something... and i thought it was banner extension but its only seeing red
dreamy wedge
<@413532942762246144> idk if you had the same confusion as me regarding revenge ...
Okay good I'm not crazy thinking the free revenges were giving me stacks
shadow haven
they are losing rav frenzy, legacy of the sleeper and you have to pick between convoke and incarn
lusty grotto
sometimes my brain just melts things together lol
mortal brook
Yes, 10.0 bear will smooth out the profile, help bear be good outside incarn
urban portal
incarn doesnt even seem that good
shadow haven
but not as boom boom for guys like me?
lusty grotto
steve 
mortal brook
, they get lots of very shiny things including a couple 90s tempo cds
urban portal
technically all it gives is 3 target cleave on mangle and the hp
the hp doesnt matter too much
dreamy wedge
It also increases the duraiton
mortal brook
Its a group enabling tool that plays nice with other tools
dreamy wedge
Convoke never really did that much damage for bear to begin with tbh, it just did a lot of stuff. Healing, rage, potential DR, mastery
shadow haven
sounds about right
where can I see rest of the classes for funs
shadow haven
I played beginning of shadowlands and I have memories of guardian druids convoking in moonkin form
urban portal
but nothing has changd outside of ilvl anywaqys
mortal brook
Convoke without attached systems will be even worse, you prob wont take it wothout a significant buff or rework
mortal brook
Yes, boomkin form convoke was decent. Poor opprtunity cost in nonraid tho
dreamy wedge
2 minute convoke with no HP buff or mastery boost to boot
mortal brook
But boomkin convoke in dflight is prob poo cuz all the bear aura talents
That wont buff boomkin convoke
And bear form convoke is a joke
dreamy wedge
It's kinda funny that they kept convoke because it was popular, but it was only popular because all the stuff supporting it made it stupid strong for most of the expansion
shadow haven
so dragonfight bear is not gonna be boom boom like it is now
shadow haven
for sure!
mortal brook
And fix several issues slands bear had
ionic fern
mortal brook
Hi mwahi
shadow haven
but people like different things!
ionic fern
Agreed. 😦
shadow haven
prot warr is losing necolord banner, but kyrian spear is in and you are gonna be able to have ravager, unstoppable force and into the fray along with outburst and so on
so I thought that was kinda hype
south zealot
we dont need banner with everything we have
shadow haven
i wanna learn more about those brewmaster stomps
urban portal
i wanna learn more about those brewmaster stomps
Turn your back to the boss
And purify
lusty grotto
honestly dps shouldnt have to rely on banner
mortal brook
Banners getting carried instead of banner on ground was a significant thematic mistake amd i am glad they are moving on.
lusty grotto
if our dps is so low that we need something like banner to compensate then dps is slow period and needs tuning
shadow haven
I didnt play warr back then but do you guys not remember the prot warr at end of BFA
ionic fern
Banners getting carried instead of banner on ground was a significant thematic m...
You're just salty you can't fish.
shadow haven
they did most damage by far if my memory corrects
ionic fern
mortal brook
