There is a forge of bond in zereth mortis but zereth mortis itself isn't an attraction, why go there anyway
#protection
cobalt seal
the anima is such a shit system. from the moment from first season till now
People complain about player power behind grind
Blizzard removes player power
People still complain
There is no win for them
drifting juniper
But anima is no grind, its abundant and useless
and its the matter of system how its handled not anima by itself
cobalt seal
Useless for you
drifting juniper
why 100 types and each of them a bag slot of it's own
minor helm
It’s abundant after 3 patches
cobalt seal
Korthia was flooding with anima
minor helm
For catchup for 9.0 and then they turned it into a currency for catch up gear
cobalt seal
why 100 types and each of them a bag slot of it's own
You have a mob to Turn in in korthia and ZM
You walking with bags full is kinda on you
And korthia only has 3 anima types
Green blue purple
tardy sequoia
Does anyone know if fated raid will drop its related loot or will all have SotFO loot?
minor helm
Does anyone know if fated raid will drop its related loot or will all have SotFO...
Each raid drops it owns loot
tardy sequoia
And what about the weekly cache? Will it drop only sotfo loot or varies every week or something else?
tepid nest
loot from the fated raid that week, presumably
strong forum
It'll drop whatever raid you've done
vapid lynx
I’m assuming we don’t know what we are going to want to turn our tokens in for in S4?
My mind is drawing a blank on rdm what’s rdm
vapid lynx
Oh duh
forest meadow
Isn't aegis like 46x better than rdm?
sweet summit
defensively, yeah
mortal brook
Prio a rdm over weapon/shield?
drifting fable
all of the trinks are available as regular drops so potentially would be good to hold 1 until you have some idea
chrome falcon
Pretty sure if you’re not gonna have access to a +7 ilvl shield you prio that over RDM
So you go OWS Aegis +7 shield
But I dunno how hard a +7 shield will be
Tbh maybe you go OWS RDM Shield and just go get the aegis because Nine is easy but I guess it’s also only available once every 21 days
strong forum
I'll pick a max ilvl weapon, ows aaaaaand prolly sigil or fusion amp
Cuz I won't need tank trinkets for my purposes
dawn canyon
But I dunno how hard a +7 shield will be
doesnt slg drop offhand
sylv has one
and LOD
prolly LOD easiest
strong forum
Every endboss has a max ilvl shield
dawn canyon
LOD prolly easiest one innit
strong forum
Depends
Sepulchre in itself is harder than all of sod
If you have the mythic skips, sylv is easier
chrome falcon
Yeah probably
SLG and sludge are tougher than anything in sod apart from sylvanas
And her/denathrius are about equal
strong forum
And depending on tuning, if it's literally just up scaled numbers not accounting for 4p2l, both sod and CN should be absolute pushovers dmg and healing wise
And I don't think those raids will be tuned around 4p2l at all
hazy edge
iirc LOD shield is the only one with haste
hazy edge
ye
strong forum
But in a world of shrouded affix I think you want some other stats
hazy edge
just wish there was a crit/vers one
dawn canyon
strong forum
I wish we'd get a shield that would spawn a soul, and grant a neat bonus from killing said soul
On let's say a 4min CD?
hazy edge
forest meadow
If you have the mythic skips, sylv is easier
Think the skips will work in fated raids?
chrome falcon
dude id be so happy if noone ever did fatescribe ever again
Legit my least fav boss I think
Tied with SLG
Idk what it was about it, just such an annoying fight
sick sentinel
I wish we'd get a shield that would spawn a soul, and grant a neat bonus from ki...
sounds very oddly specific
grave crane
really any shield enhancements would be nice, but i guess them giving us a shield that can go in attack or defend mode is alright?
sick sentinel
i think the obvious choice is nature if we are going elemental warriors
thundercrap and non spell casty fits nature damage feel
strong forum
really any shield enhancements would be nice, but i guess them giving us a shiel...
Would be if the numbers were good
The shield would be alright if the CD was like 20sec
Not fucking 1.5min
And even then its still worlds behind gavel
The neck will be nerfed to 3ppm and low af dmg
Bet
strong forum
It is
urban portal
sims better than other necks just due to those minor damage but nothing spectacular
grave crane
Would be if the numbers were good
i like the idea and theyre trying new shit, but they gotta tweak some of it to be worth or better cause dps got jaithys and then gavel and them shit slapped
sick sentinel
kinda what i would want to see on shields is spikes (deal damage while blocking/attacked) and it could be a flat or bleed effect or a similiar spell/item thats like bumps and has chance to stun/light cc effect
strong forum
The possibilities are endless
Just not taken
Also the spikes kinda thing was an azerite power
And it was incredibly irrelevant dmg
Cuz despite it sounding like "yeah that would prolly do alot of dmg" in reality you don't get melee'd that absurdly often for a small spike number to ramp up relevant amounts
For example in a mists 16 I did
I got melee'd 1000 times, now if we proc 300 dmg on every swing, that's 300k dmg, that would amount to ~50% of what my devastator did. So it would be around 300 dps
Which is just nothing, you could then increase the spike amount to absurd amounts but that's also kinda dumb
urban portal
There’s just not enough mob density
Nor do they have crazy attack speeds
Spike effects are also useless in raid
sick sentinel
i can't put my finger on it something that feels " The Caretaker - It's just a burning memory on youtube" about warrior in shadowlands in general
and just how SL was so shot in general too, could have been so much more than what it was
limber temple
kinda what i would want to see on shields is spikes (deal damage while blocking/...
OP but I would like spikes on our shield that would just auto apply Rend to our target 😄
sick sentinel
sure, that could work you SS, rend stuff happens
limber temple
Yep thats my thinking.
Goes nicely with B&T
Presuming we actually def get that back.
sick sentinel
doesn't ring any bells
limber temple
Blood & Thunder - Spreads rend using Thunderclap. It was in the datamine for DF.
sick sentinel
could work well
grave crane
Yeah it’ll be interesting for sure nice little aoe pressure
chrome falcon
Charge rend thunderclap then listen to your DH who first-globalled The Hunt ask for a crez 
craggy sorrel
Charge rend thunderclap then listen to your DH who first-globalled The Hunt ask ...
That's his problem 😅
urban portal
Hunt has to be rotationally a fail
I wish I can first global hunt
But it’s a huge dps loss
sick sentinel
not SS first attack, also taunts, also its a hunter, he has FD + MD
cobalt seal
Hunt has to be rotationally a fail
not really
urban portal
Hunts in hots was a huge range initiation spell
Now hunt is something you slam point blank
It feels wrong
It’s also called the hunt not melee range big blast
distant crystal
wym you gotta afk a few sec while the group runs to the next pack
then hunt in like a chad
forest meadow
I have so many questions
minor helm
What’s wrong with that
distant crystal
minor helm
distant crystal
felt cute might delete later
strong forum
alright this is borderline nsfw
forest meadow
That's the virus that turned Jabba into what he is today
dawn canyon
Those live in your hair iirc
distant crystal
these are sea worms but i'm sure they got some cousins that live if your hair folliciles or smth
forest meadow
Those live in your hair iirc
forest meadow
Nty
dawn canyon
In your eyebrows etc :)
distant crystal
I remember some disturbing factoid about the average person having a few hundred mites living in their eyelash follicles
carmine pine
minor helm
jagged pier
sick sentinel
https://media.sciencephoto.com/image/c0116493/800wm
tell me thats not ghuun
distant crystal
@sick sentinel that's not ghuun
ruby osprey
Rerolling prot warr from bdk, wish me luck boys
toxic pewter
Welcome to the best tank class
ruby osprey
I’ve played fury for years never touched prot
Now it’s time to get called dogshit in keys
Since I’ll be an ez target
open bluff
good luck if you're pugging, meta slaves think anything that isn't bdk or brm is dogshit
so you'll have fun even getting invites
distant crystal
a bunch of my guildies were posting their raider.io recaps
and multiple had the "you've played with 35 different specs"
but never prot warrior 
brittle owl
https://media.sciencephoto.com/image/c0116491/800wm
why does it have zits for eyes
distant crystal
the better to see you with
distant crystal
ty jesus for not embedding
ruby osprey
I usually play with my guildies at around 3.3k io
So getting invited won’t be an issue but getting shit on on discord will be
brittle owl
you need to assert dominance
ruby osprey
How do I do thst ?
brittle owl
let everyone know who is top g
ruby osprey
Mega giga pull then close game ?
brittle owl
ruby osprey
Make them wait 15 min before key starts then leave after timer ? And let them know it’s their fault ?
strong forum
rule number 1) if a tank dies, its the healers fault
rule number 2) if the dps dies to aggro, its their fault for not waiting
rule number 3) if the healer dies, its the healers fault
you literally cant lose
ruby osprey
I love this server
strong forum
as soon as ANYBODY makes a mistake
hold it to them forever
and make fun of them
that way you assert dominance and will stop them from ever trying to shit on you
grave crane
if anyone back talks you in a key, pop SW and kick them right before the kill of the final boss
strong forum
(only works with friends, dont do this with pugs)
grave crane
(definitely do this with pugs)
sweet summit
if u are getting shit on over discord
elfin surge
is first technique good for us ?
grave crane
no check the pin for reasons but no
elfin surge
simply reply with "stop cry noob"
thnx 🙂
ruby osprey
One of my dps homies plays surv and every time he fucks up he just says “I drop bomb” “ bomb good”
sweet summit
bomb fuck good
strong forum
for 1.5more weeks
sweet summit
strong forum
then bomb only meby good
ruby osprey
Fury will rise from the ashes
grave crane
are they nerfing bomb?
urban portal
Does fury sim better than survival in 12 second 5 target
sweet summit
they are deleting survival hunter
strong forum
we know the blasphemy nerf for destro, but thats not the only one
urban portal
Some adjustments to their st too I think
strong forum
keep in mind the blasphemy nerf was intended for this season ONTOP of the next seasons
unless im messing up the chronological order of the announced nerfs
strong forum
ye it is
doing slightly more dmg outside of your CDs isnt gonna offset the fact that youre alot weaker during your CDs
and destro will absolutely suck outside of CDs, no more infinite rain spam in aoe
sick sentinel
well i think in general they just generate less shards
so not sure they'll do more outside of cds
strong forum
shouldve mentioned ST
sick sentinel
ah yeah
minor helm
Send me straight to hell no shards in or out of cd
strong forum
demo is right there ykno
minor helm
Not me them
sick sentinel
i think their dots got buffed a bit as well right
maybe they'll finally make a meaningful difference on relics
strong forum
demo is literally just behind destro getting a free pass
elfin surge
okay ;ast question embalmers oil or sharpening stone?
strong forum
sharp
i dont think anybody but VDH runs oil, cuz they do fuckall dmg so they might aswell get the 70hps from oil
urban portal
okay ;ast question embalmers oil or sharpening stone?
Unless you are talking shadowcore oil
Shadowcore oil st stones aoe
End of day very little difference
cobalt seal
i dont think anybody but VDH runs oil, cuz they do fuckall dmg so they might asw...
what oils?
strong forum
embalmer
urban portal
Isn’t that the healing one
sick sentinel
yes
urban portal
Tanks actually use that?
sick sentinel
legit just vdh
strong forum
for the reasons i named
grave crane
did those destro nerfs go live already cause i been having some low damage destros in my keys
muted nexus
did those destro nerfs go live already cause i been having some low damage destr...
2 weeks br0ther
you have encountered the all too common meta chaser
grave crane
The last 3 locks been meta chasers then lol one did 6k in a 16 wake I did 9k
cobalt seal
Xep is special
strong forum
The last 3 locks been meta chasers then lol one did 6k in a 16 wake I did 9k
Despite playing a broken class, bad players still manage to do less than tank dps
broken crater
legit just vdh
thats also incorrect
sick sentinel
guides not updated then?
cobalt seal
sick sentinel
iv just said oils
sick sentinel
didnt even mention stones
broken crater
that said its apparently on wowhead too
sick sentinel
o i just assumed it to be copy paste of all others
broken crater
no diff writers partially
in my experience, except for sv you shouldnt visit iv in general 😅
sick sentinel
fair enough
cobalt seal
broken crater
that makes so little sense
i wonder whether embalmers just got nuked from orbit during beta or something
cobalt seal
it's not wrong xD
broken crater
because it was never even remotely viable because its so little healing lol
yea i mean on paper its not wrong
cobalt seal
but you gain so little on either of them
cobalt seal
same could be said about the dmg xD
broken crater
kinda but at least thats a guaranteed time save
cobalt seal
oils are kinda bad nowadays
broken crater
and there have been keys that are < 0.1s
slim zinc
iv is garbo for vdh tbf
Until I get access
primal sentinel
toxic pewter
Replying in #997237573514690620
sick sentinel
EVERY target?
lofty widget
😦
chrome falcon
every time you post a log you have like 30+ battle shout casts
lofty widget
press IP to dump rage
chrome falcon
what's up with that
holy god
4.5k rage wasted
that's disgusting
you need to cast
SO MANY MORE revenges
you're like permanently rage capped
and you're still pressing a generator that does 0 damage (thunder clap)
instead of a spender that pumps (revenge)
you should be doing like 3k more overall dps
4.5k rage is uhh
chimmi help me out how much banner uptime is 4.5k rage
stray lichen
I have my BS Macroed with my Avatar thats why you see so many
chrome falcon
that's like 4 minutes of wasted banner uptime
????????????????????????????????????????????????????
what?????????
why????????????
why would you do that
all you're doing is putting avatar on a GCD
lofty widget
stray lichen
oh
lofty widget
get rid of that, thats a gcd you can spend on dmg instead
stray lichen
ok
lofty widget
and get rid of any other macros you have as well besides charge/intervene
lofty widget
a lot a lot more revenges, and you need to be very aware of your rage as well
youre capped for looong periods of time, like +10 seconds
which is a big no no
drifting fable
as soon as you see your rage nearing 100 just dump an IP
idk if youre doing that already or not but id guess no
lofty widget
honestly i'd suggest swapping your TC and revenge keybind
might get you into the habit of pressing it more
stray lichen
ok I can try that
drifting fable
make sure you view IP exclusively as a way to not overcap, dont look at the defensive value
IP to not cap
revenge revenge revenge otherwise
lofty widget
and again, make sure you can track your rage easily, seeing something like this almost makes me cry 😦
drifting fable
yeah id say wasted rage is your #1
if you solve that youll be looking wayyy better
get that rage bar front and center or nearby on the UI
during Last Stand it will happen alot and it will happen very fast so you have to be quick to dump with IP
stray lichen
I moved it in front and I also got a WA that tells me Im about to rage cap when I hit 90, do you think I should change that to 80 or lower to see if that helps
lofty widget
75 imo, keep in mind when you have outburst up SS will generate 45 rage, and during LS its a baseline 20 rage
stray lichen
ok
so IP is only for not capping, not really a defensive, if im not close to capping i should be hitting revenge and SS?
lofty widget
yep, those 2 are your main buttons
stray lichen
and then also keeping my SB up as much as possible as well
lofty widget
yeah then you wanna also use reprisal, demo shout etc etc
it's a lot of button presses when played correctly so it takes some time to get used to
stray lichen
right, also you guys were saying to much TC, is that something that is used when needed since it slows or just dont use it
lofty widget
you should still use tc "on cd", but its the lowest prio of all your generators
so if you have literally any other generator available, you use that over tc
stray lichen
ok, I'm going to mess with my key binds a little and go practice on a training dummy again for awhile
drifting fable
chrome falcon
i don't want to be a dick but i really have to know
why did you macro battle shout into avatar
stray lichen
I really dont know thought it made since at the time and didnt know it messed with it
chrome falcon
yes battle shout is on the GCD
and yeah seriously 4.5k wasted rage is maybe the most i've ever seen
there's no point in generating rage if you're not going to spend it
are you only pressing revenge when it procs or something? you should be absolutely spamming it
lofty widget
7 cpm is still spending some rage on it tbf
im really impressed someone is taking the time to go hit a dummy for once tho 
urban portal
Dummy is definitely more important on prot than most specs
chrome falcon
yeah honestly
just go hit a dummy
for literally 10 minutes straight
and post the log of that
urban portal
Prot warrior is not approved by rotation helpers
chrome falcon
rotation helpers are crimes
urban portal
i love rotation helpers
dont talk to me unless you use the illegal third party program that all the world first raiders use
stray lichen
cobalt seal
naive mauve
Is it already possible to say which items are most worth buying from the vendor in S4?
ebon wren
I see that reprisal/banner may be gone in dragonflight, and I think this is a good thing. It encourages a terrible style of tanking IMO. It was a patch to fix warrior but having to zip all the fuck around to maintain a timer really is a poor gameplay, and if you could hold still and maintain mitigation there would be a lot more warrior tanks. Curious thoughts.
lofty widget
Is it already possible to say which items are most worth buying from the vendor ...
ows/aegis/rdm or maybe a high ilvl shield but not sure if thats on the vendor
naive mauve
RDM? 😄
And Shard of Annhylde's Aegis not worth? 😄
chrome falcon
Sir he just said aegis
lofty widget
reactive defensive matrix=RDM
aegis is worth it, but it also drops from the 3rd boss so maybe not worth spending a token on
naive mauve
Ahh 😄 My fault 😄 I think about sigil 😄
chrome falcon
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/nqL1B6H9AJfPrmgx/#fight=last&type=casts&sou...
Banner uptime still very low, you need to generate and spend more rage
drifting fable
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/nqL1B6H9AJfPrmgx/#fight=last&type=casts&sou...
still missing alot of GCDs. gotta hit SS and revenge more. too many outbursts on TC
55/30 i think i saw
chrome falcon
yeah
spending 30 outbursts on TC is really, really bad
especially on a dummy
are you tracking it? there's a weakaura in the pins
using outburst on TC on single target is essentially totally wasting it
lofty widget
is there a sound que for when you proc outburst in the WA in pins?
i found that that helps a lot personally
chrome falcon
the top bars are your banner uptime
the bottom are your LS casts
you cast 3 LS outside of banner
stray lichen
ok so only cast LS when banner is up and thats it?
chrome falcon
yes
grave crane
Make sure you have the last stand conduit that increases rage generation during last stand
hazy edge
i found that that helps a lot personally
You can add it to the wa. Not that hard of a thing. Just need to add an additional action to the condition that changed the bar color to play the sound. I won’t be at my pc for a bit otherwise I’d do it for ya right now.
lofty widget
Oh No im using my own wa with sounds, just pointed out that it might help to have an audio queue, ty tho!
grave crane
kinda, it generates a small amount of rage and does some damage in aoe
ocean yoke
it can also reset shield slam cd
forest meadow
kinda, it generates a small amount of rage and does some damage in aoe
It's a low priority builder, but damagewise isn't it more damage than SS at 2 targets?
waxen orbit
Is thunderclap worth pressing?
waxen orbit
Yeah
A 10k TC to 2 targets isn’t gonna beat a 50k SS
And 10k TC is counting a crit
forest meadow
I don't mean an outburst SS. Just a normal one
Cause TC is 46% of AP on each target hit. And SS is 86% of AP
cinder storm
KEKW
forest meadow
I agree it's the lowest priority rage gen in most cases, but I just meant damage.
onyx vessel
jagged pier
It's a low priority builder, but damagewise isn't it more damage than SS at 2 ta...
at about 6 targets it gets equal to an outburst SS in terms of damage but u still gen less rage
forest meadow
Okay thanks
chilly brook
It's a low priority builder, but damagewise isn't it more damage than SS at 2 ta...
Not even close
forest meadow
Is there some hidden damage modifier for SS or TC that makes the wowhead % attack power incorrect?
chilly brook
Yes rage generation
More rage=more revenge
More revenj=more damage
A slightly less pedantic answer is that it really doesn’t matter if thunderclap does more damage even in two targets (which pretty sure it doesn’t especially considering shield block buffs your shield slam significantly) you’re still getting behind because less rage generated means less rage spent which means less damage and less survival
forest meadow
Oh, yeah. The original question was, is it worth ever pressing TC. Someone responded, it does some damage in AoE. Which to me sounded like how I'd describe heroic throw, some damage. Yet TC actually does about half a SS to every target hit.
chilly brook
Ehhh half is generous
forest meadow
Oh yeah I forgot to buff from SB
mighty valley
You give up 30 rage by using outburst on TC and rage means more banner uptime and more AM cdr
forest meadow
I never said use outburst on TC
chilly brook
Just from some napkin maths
My thunderclap was doing on average 4k a cast
But that’s in aoe
mighty valley
You should still press TC sometimes because some rage gen is better than none so long as it’s not inevitably going to be overcapped
forest meadow
You can look at logs
From logs last season, TC was doing about 36% the damage of SS. I forgot the 30% buff to SS from SB
chilly brook
Sounds about right
TLDR shield slam just a better ability
But you still should press TC
Usually somewhere where you have some downtime in the rotation, especially now considering you’re spending so much time spending rage it kinda takes a back burner
mighty valley
It’s mostly competing with revenge for GCDs and you should press it vs a revenge unless your rage income is currently high enough that it’ll be wasted
young glen
Does S4 represent a good opportunity to get back into m+? Haven't tanked anything since S1 and no wod/legion at all.
young glen
That's what I was thinking. Could hopefully lessen my anxiety
mighty valley
M+ didn’t even exist for the wod dungeons before so they’re gonna be a little weird
chilly brook
I think Max said it best
S4 is probably the best time to play Shadowlands if you haven’t played it or took a break due to some dumbass system
Least amount of barriers to getting to play, classes have tiers, all raid content is relevant, you can target raid gear etc.
young glen
Sounds good!
tepid nest
are we likely to just pick up haste for the S4 affix? or what are your guys thoughts
strong forum
Vdh, pwar and bdk will pickup haste
tepid nest
thanks nome
blazing condor
he thinks warriors are gonna get a talent tree
gray nest
So I was watching a guide that basically said necrolord prot is much more advanced than Kyrian. Isn't necrolord just kind of maintaining our normal rotation? Am I missing something?
blazing condor
Ur missing
cunning pecan
Necrolord is about maximizing banner uptime. So it involves rage management and dumping rage into Ignore Pain to keep banner up. I'm not a seasoned prot warrior though.
blazing condor
Cov legendary gives us the possibility to have an infinite banner
Meaning you have to play differently to maintain that uptime
cunning pecan
But I've been enjoying the necrolord playstyle over the fire and forget of kyrian.
blazing condor
Which isnt as easy because it revolves around generating, and spending, as much rage as possible
gray nest
is there a good guide to the differences in that playstyle vs kyrian (i have been using kyrian).
blazing condor
Bottom line is still the same. No new abilities or so
Just better rage management
And way more casts cus more rage
Especially more IP casts
glacial flint
So I was watching a guide that basically said necrolord prot is much more advanc...
and for m+ use alot of fleshcraft.. esp with plague deviser u get tons of stats.. combined its alot of dps / hps with all those proccs etc u have
chrome falcon
So I was watching a guide that basically said necrolord prot is much more advanc...
TLDR: Necrolord multiplies your dps, kyrian adds a flat number to your dps
So if you suck then kyrian is going to add more damage
But the playstyle is the same
dawn canyon
A proper NL is just bis for pwar
tender cove
is devastator ok to play?
strong forum
its the ONLY thing to play
cinder storm
Will fated raids open cross servers from the get go since there's no CE involved?
tender cove
its the ONLY thing to play
ohh, sweet:)
tender cove
Does S4 represent a good opportunity to get back into m+? Haven't tanked anythin...
I think its a great time. I'm coming back mostly because its a "knowledge reset" for most of the playerbase.
Doing run 1 when everyone else is on run 500 is not really that fun.
hazy edge
Oh hi Freakadin 👋 welcome to the other prot channel 🙂
tender cove
Oh hi Freakadin 👋 welcome to the other prot channel 🙂
Hey 😄
zinc shale
first dos in 2 weeks, get scale. been farming wep the last 2 weeks
still stuck with green wep
topkek
scarlet bear
how is prot solo survival these days?
blazing condor
you can survive p well
if my healer died i would just continue to pull until they came back no prob
cinder nova
I think that depends a lot on the key.
Pushing huge key numbers like +25 onward, recklessly pulling without your healer is just as liable to get your DPS killed as it is yourself.
Low keys like +15s and shit is like
¯_(ツ)_/¯
w/e pull as fast as you want
modern brook
"I'm living just fine" - some dk in the quad pull on motherlode without a healer confused why his dps is dying
I only have bfa quotes sorry
mellow bridge
just press a defensive 
waxen orbit
Pushing huge key numbers like +25 onward, recklessly pulling without your healer...
This is the answer
zinc shale
this is the way
waxen orbit
🙏
molten rivet
how do you use banenr in dos, since you cant keep it up with all this WO skipping 😄
do you not pop banner on 1st pull and save it for the pack before hakkar if you go hakkar 1st ?
strong forum
1 of the pulls youre bound to not have banner on
either 1st Ardenweald or the pack on hakkar
not using it on first pack seems kinda weird
youll have it back mid the first pack youre fighting after wo
grave crane
i just use it on cd if i dont have it for a pull i dont have it. with all the skips and nonsense itll be alright
scarlet bear
just not getting heals, or literally nobody doing anything
yeah, say your healer dies. Last I played IP was pretty underwhelming and we didn't really have much in the way of self heals. It was basically rotate CDs until you get overwhelmed. Not sure if that changed with legos or conduits
strong forum
in general youre gonna be fine, on bosses youre omega fine they dont do a whole lot to us at all, if casts arent being interrupted youre gonna have a bad time in pulls
tier + necro fuels us with fuckloads of rage to feed into indom healing and required IP spam
but theres alot more variables for us than for say BDK or VDH
BDK is just dumbfuck everywhere, they kinda dont care at all
VDH will be fine in aoe, struggle on bosses
scarlet bear
Yeah, that's been my biggest issue since legion... Prot seems okay, but the other tanks are just better
strong forum
?
grave crane
lol
strong forum
just because our self sustain without a healer isnt as strong, doesnt mean other tanks are better
you got some facts twisted up there
toxic pewter
Definitely twisted, that’s for sure
grave crane
We don’t have any burst healing like death strike or WoG but we can have some insane high self healing with the amount of rage we spend and with IP spamming. And our main thing is physical damage mitigation which we do better than any other tank
chrome falcon
i guess if you have BL and stuff you don't need to banner first pack in dos
but like
i'm always gonna just slam my CDs so i get more casts
even if i told myself "i'm not gonna banner this pull" i'd probably do it 3 seconds in by instinct
and feel good about it
toxic pewter
Yeah def use banner first pull then use it again on hakkar. That’s what I do
cinder nova
even if i told myself "i'm not gonna banner this pull" i'd probably do it 3 seco...
This is me trying to HODL sigil for parses.
The lizard brain part of you is so powerful and urgent.
I tell myself I wont him my burst macro on the pull and whiff sigil, but I inevitably do it anyway half the time.
Except I feel like shit after because I know it means I'm not gonna break a new record
cinder nova
bruh wat
chrome falcon
it's once every 5 minutes so i'm not being THAT inefficient by clicking
if i ever have to hold LS or banner for something i take my banner+ls+trinket+avatar keybind off its bind
because otherwise i will just autopilot slam it
brittle owl
come on and slam
patent osprey
do you not pop banner on 1st pull and save it for the pack before hakkar if you ...
In a high key you will either pop lust at 2 min or 3 mins into hakkar for CDS. Therefore if it looks like a 3 min lust hakkar, pop banner on the pack before. If it's a bit lower key like 20 - 25 then pop banner on pull of hakkar
sand drum
272 + avoidance or 278 🤔 ? set hands ofc
sand drum
bit high on dmg taken (15 SD) but ok dmg ? :C
blazing condor
depends on your ilvl and if you got tier set or nah/double leggo
buut in general nah thats pretty low damage you should be doing 10k+
(but not terrible)
sand drum
will try aim for 10K then :>
sweet summit
cus strength (main stat) is better than avoidance (secondary stat)
avoidance is a tertiary stat :susge:
sand drum
why I asked cus im bit unsure :>
blazing condor
avoidance is a tertiary stat :susge:
ur a tertiary stat
blazing condor
why I asked cus im bit unsure :>
if you want more accurate feedback on what you can improve dont be shy to post a log
sand drum
let me upload that one then :>
blazing condor
I dont have a lot of time to look into the log ( posted in #449510248579858432 for anyone else who wanna look ) but just from skimming you have low CPM and low blocked hits especially. Intervene was like 0.5 CPM which is way too little and also is a reason you have low blocked hits. I would imagine you need to manage banner uptime better and generate more rage but i didnt really check that
considering youre running two dps trinkets and your setup you really should be doing more in general
waxen orbit
Good dam overall is like 14k usually
chrome falcon
Your shield block casts are very low
For some reason
You wasted nearly half your total rage generated from demo shout
Why are you pressing demo shout if you’re rage capped?
Same with avatar
More IP casts and more revenge
So much more revenge
42% banner is better than 30%
But it’s still literally half of what it should be
stray lichen
ok
chrome falcon
All you should be worrying about
Is blocking melees
And spending rage
(And generating rage)
Every time your rage hits 100
You fucked up
stray lichen
ok
dawn canyon
If you can hold Banner on the dummy for like 10 minutes ur good
Ideally find an afk next to em so you can intervene
dusk jay
is that having 1 banner up for 10 minutes or being able to keep it up by refreshing as well?
chrome falcon
on a dummy you should be able to keep the same one up the whole time
but if you need recasts that's fine
dusk jay
rip me then, I can barely do 1 minute, hmm
chrome falcon
with last stand, 2 minutes should be very easy
press more shield slams and stop overcapping
use charge on cooldown
and spam the shit out of IP
last stand is a cheat button
dusk jay
with last stand, 2 minutes should be very easy
how does last stand help with banner uptime?
chrome falcon
no i just said to stop overcapping
if you only use revenge with a proc
you're going to overcap
and last stand helps with banner because it increases your rage generation?
dusk jay
yea ok, that's what I was doing then
chrome falcon
only using revenge on proc was the gameplay about 18 months ago
dusk jay
does someone have a video of 1 banner up for 10 minutes on a dummy?
chrome falcon
i could probably make one
dusk jay
am I stupid, how does last stand help with rage regen? I don't see that
chrome falcon
just go try it, log it, post it in here and tag me and we can tell you what you're doing wrong
well i'm not going to call you stupid but
i am going to suggest you read what your abilities do
go read your conduits
dusk jay
oh yea my bad, forgot about the conduits
dusk jay
just go try it, log it, post it in here and tag me and we can tell you what you'...
I'm probably doing a lot wrong, only picked up pwar last week. How early in the pack do you pop avatar?
chrome falcon
The only abilities you don't immediately press on CD
Are shield wall and spell reflect
and demo shout if you don't run booming voice, and last stand if you're not in banner
There's absolutely no reason to hold avatar
You always press avatar when it's up, you (almost) always just press banner on CD (the only exception is if you're about to have a LONG downtime without combat like RP)
Demo shout whenever it's up if you run booming voice
Last stand whenever it's up unless you're out of banner
dusk jay
There's absolutely no reason to hold avatar
except when you're going to "stack" outburst right?
Also if you get a revent proc and a shield slam proc, which do you prioritise? I assume shield slam?
When would you press demo shout if you're not using booming
chrome falcon
- Yes the only exception is if it'll stack outburst but that shouldn't come up often
- Unless you're worried about threat early in a pack, you always press shield slam. The only exception to this is if you're at 7 stacks of seeing red, because free revenge procs are bugged and will move you from 7 SR stacks to Outburst, and then you can immediately spend outburst on shield slam
- I would just run booming, it's much better for banner uptime if you're still learning and it's essentially the same dps. Pressing demo shout without having Booming is fucking miserable
dusk jay
and I assume you almost always want to use outburst on shield slam and not tclap
why is it miserable? it's still a 25% dr?
drifting fable
yes prioritize SS over TC for outburst
dusk jay
and its ok to wait for ss to use outburst, if its on cd when outburst comes up?
drifting fable
only for like 1-2 GCDs
i would try to fish for a revenge or soemthing first
get a charge in for a revenge proc
if all else fails and SS still on CD then throw it to TC
on 6+ targets its OK in AOE
single target you generally want to avoid it unless you would be missing a ton of GCDs
dusk jay
ok awesome, thanks 😄
ocean yoke
why is it miserable? it's still a 25% dr?
it does have the DR but without booming voice its a GCD that does nothing but put that on without generating any rage (banner time) or damage
still a good button but really lame to press
dusk jay
Ah yea that makes sense, what's the trick to upkeeping banner throughout the dungeon? Just chain pull like a mad man or?
drifting fable
pretty much
only time your banner should suffer is forced downtime like spires
the goal is to bank enough on the 1st pack to make it to the next one easy
chrome falcon
always be in combat with something if you can
and yes pressing booming voice and generating 0 rage and dealing 0 damage is jus
pathetic
it's insane that it's still on the GCD
dusk jay
well already got it to 5 minutes iwth refreshing
so I guess i'm doing a little more right than the 1 minute attempts
now to just be able to translate it into keys as well
chrome falcon
👍 that's a good start
drifting fable
banner uptime is just hitting your buttons
chrome falcon
^
your rotation without banner is identical to the rotation with banner
like even if we weren't necrolord
we'd play hte exact same
because generating and spending rage is the only thing we need to do on this class anyway
dusk jay
and 2.5 minutes without refreshing the banner, but I noticed a few times where I fucked up and used outburst on TC -.-
chrome falcon
use the WA in the pins if you're not already
if you ever find yourself in a position where outburst is out and SS is on CD
dusk jay
yea using them both
chrome falcon
i just spam revenge
unless that'll double outburst me
if you don't have rage for revenge then go proc reprisal
and if you can't do any of that then you have to just use it on TC
the tip to never be in that situation
is to just put TC on cooldown when you hit 6/7 stacks of seeing red
that'll basically guarantee you have SS for it
can't accidentally TC if TC is on CD
dusk jay
makes sense, I learnt pretty early on that if I'm ever starved on rage, just go get reprisal
chrome falcon
yep
i normally try to keep 1 reprisal proc in the tank
for emergencies
never ever sit on 2 charges of.... charge
dusk jay
very much so an in and out class, lots of weaving in and out
chrome falcon
and always use intervene on CD
yeah it fuckin sucks to play tbh
after like 12 months
but it's very fun to learn
dusk jay
why does it suck after 12 months 😄
drifting fable
wrist hurty
dusk jay
I'm still in that phase of "press intervene more"
chrome falcon
uh basically
it's really annoying that your survivability is tied to you spamming mobility
no other tank has to work this hard for mitigation
dusk jay
oh I wanted to ask, I have some weird bug with the intervene macro. Essentially if I use it, it says its available until I try using it again and only then do I see the CD
chrome falcon
pala just gets it naturally during their rotation, BDK just parries, monk doesn't even need to PRESS a button
uh i don't know i don't personally use that macro
don't find myself using it that often
all i do with intervene is macro it to a melee after the start of each key
chrome falcon
it's not an optimal way to play
but basically it just requires 0 mental energy
it just turns intervene into "gen 20 rage, get a revenge proc and a small shield block"
0 thinking required
i almost never need to intervene a ranged
less time spent thinking = more time spent spamming buttons
dusk jay
fair, that's hwo I started doing it, just intervening a melee every time
Parry is easy but its also retarded, I don't think anyone likes an "rng defensive"
chrome falcon
i just don't have the mental bandwith to mouseover every time i need to cast IV yknow
plus time spent moving mouse (which i lose track of where it even is sometimes)
is downtime
so i just 0 brain it
dusk jay
makes sense, I might do that to start tbh
cobalt seal
pala just gets it naturally during their rotation, BDK just parries, monk doesn'...
Missing 2 tanks there
chrome falcon
but jumping into it now is probably pretty daunting
yeah i mean
druid is just us but easier
and i have no idea what vdh does because that class is fucking cringe and for losers
🙂
cobalt seal
Good point
dusk jay
here it comes
cobalt seal
Exclude the other tank with shitty mitigation uptime
chrome falcon
exceptions prove rules etc etc having mit uptime on vdh is still much easier than it is on warrior
yes your uptime is still bad but getting even that uptime is easy
cobalt seal
And without a skilled way to get it up
chrome falcon
you just press the button and you're done
cobalt seal
Its just get lucky
chrome falcon
yep
blizz designed dh to appeal to cringe edgy dps players
and realised they couldn't make a 1 spec class
so they just put together vdh in like 5 mins and never figured the class out
unlucky stay mad
🙂
dusk jay
fair enough, I'll let you guys deal with this 😛 thanks for the help
chrome falcon
nah dw about cro you get used to him
cobalt seal
Who is mad
chrome falcon
feel free to post logs of a key or even just whacking a dummy we're always happy to help
all vdh players are mad
at all times
chrome falcon
better to be strong but considered weak than a disaster spec considered mediocre
sun tzu said that btw
cobalt seal
I dont know whats mediocre
When vdh in terms of Gameplay is prob there in top 3 for tanks
open bluff
at all times
you would be too if all you knew was pain
teal patio
which conduit of force vs ashen juggernaut is better in keys? subcreation has them pretty close but the top 5 pwars all seem to be running ashen juggernaut
hazy edge
Ashen jug all the way
cinder nova
Nah, Ashen Jugg is 100% better tbh
You get more value out of pressing one of your biggest rage spenders.
And you should absolutely be using it in packs to focus down kill targets and just speed up TTK
Force is hot garbage because it requires you to press TC to get value and while you're not exactly avoiding it, you should have enough rage that pressing it isn't an imperative as much as it was before.
And, unsurprisingly, we didn't press it then either. SoF was pretty underwhelming in the last two tiers, and it's just as underwhelming now imo
Using talents and conduits to try and make TC more enticing to push or require TC to be pressed in order to function is like putting lipstick on a pig.
waxen orbit
Ashen Jugg absolutely.
urban portal
It's likely true that Show will pull slightly higher overalls
but overalls arent everything
so people would just go jug
waxen orbit
A big aspect of what you bring to the table as a prot warrior is your single target damage output. You want to maximize that shit where-ever possible as long as it doesn't risk survivability
If you run SoF over AJ, you're gimping yourself out of a big aspect of the ST dam output for a buff to a button that you should rarely ever even press (Thunder Clap)
There is absolutely no reason to ever run SoF over AJ
Also, your overalls should be higher with AJ because in AOE your dam is coming from Revenge anyways. AJ just ensures your prio and boss damage is higher
@teal patio
To make sure you see all of the above
teal patio
ty
shut summit
lavish oracle
All my keys turn into ToP and Sanguine Depths, I think I might have angered a witch or something
or maybe stole some Aztec gold by accident
blazing condor
at least you can do fat reflects in top
lavish oracle
True
blazing condor
but yeah boring dungeons 
waxen orbit
I literally break top 15 if I get any SD LMAO
My shit is still a 22 on tyran
Half my shit for tyran is 23s too
I’ve been unavailable to push like every other week
blazing condor
eu 
waxen orbit
cinder nova
Dragonflight waiting room
urban portal
blazing condor
lol
jagged pier
i also dont play / have no game time
the smart one of us all 
blazing condor
its comfy
jagged pier
dusk jay
@chrome falcon took my banner uptime from 20% lastnight to 80% in my latest key today.
verbal hill
Is spires the worst dungeon for banner uptime?
chrome falcon
yes
verbal hill
It's so frustrating watching it tick away waiting for them to fly
cobalt seal
Is spires the worst dungeon for banner uptime?
Top
chrome falcon
top can suck too yeah
dos as well sometimes
i think spires is worse than top though
the "flying" bits in top are way quicker than spires
cobalt seal
You lose active uptime on top
While soa plat are long enough that when you land
You should have another banner ready
strong forum
If you can go entire platforms from start to finish with banner, I reckon you'd have it at the start of every platform
I wouldn't know though I've only done like 1 soa with necro
primal mauve
Other than scale what would be the next best trinket for prot warrior, def trinket or off trinket
I have codex but have read it isnt that great on warrior
strong forum
Elegy/soleahs/afe/ows/matrix defensively
Basically stat sticks
If you can get it, aegis is omega good
primal mauve
is AFE better than Phial?
lofty widget
afe can be pretty annoying to play around, phial is always good imo
primal mauve
k
strong forum
Phial is just good safe dmg
If afe offers 12% haste with 20-30% uptime even if you don't pay attention to it, so it's not bad at all
bold nimbus
is opc a good trink for us ? i use phial and opc atm 
strong forum
its good for dmg, sure
sweet summit
!!
cobalt seal
so its practically demon spikes!
from the cringe tank spec
that people ignore when complaining about AM uptime on SB
strong forum
sigil is good on ST, but for m+ id say opc is better for us
sweet summit
bold nimbus
, and what i wanted to ask , fml got stuck in the blackfuse boss pipes in siege
do we have like haste cap or should i just follow the sim
sick sentinel
downside to AFE is its a ground effect, so you have to know to look for the area to stand in and then be able to stand in it
sick sentinel
stationary ground effect, doesn't move once it goes off
young creek
Does simming work well for tanks? I heard it only takes into account dps and not survivability, but maybe that was wrong
bold nimbus
always sim
gonna resim again but i think my top gear was with sd crit vers ring , maybe coz its 278
lofty widget
Does simming work well for tanks? I heard it only takes into account dps and not...
you only sim dps
cobalt seal
Does simming work well for tanks? I heard it only takes into account dps and not...
surv comes from pressing buttons
sick sentinel
well, if you don't have to move alot, should be fine IG lol,
afe does feel a bit stat stick-ish
not thats a bad thing for trinket
strong forum
crit vers is indeed good for dmg
and not bad stats to have
you dont have to have max haste possible
sick sentinel
remove haste, remove versa
sweet summit
eh?
sick sentinel
make better replacement
strong forum
?
lofty widget
not this again...
sick sentinel
haste bad
strong forum
haste is literally the best stat
sweet summit
haste is the fun stat
sick sentinel
yeah, but its too much the best stat
cobalt seal
why is yogi on full apb mode
bold nimbus
yy , its like 20% crit - 30 % haste atm with top gear
sick sentinel
why not have a blood lust effect that does another of the 4 stats
strong forum
bold nimbus
yeah , did some keys on my war the other day but wasnt sure bout the gear
lofty widget
how yall not at more haste
cobalt seal
because you notice haste lol
bold nimbus
i myself run like 24% crit 33% haste
cobalt seal
you don't notice vers/crit or mastery
sick sentinel
+25% crit, +20% versa, +XY% mastery
cobalt seal
so BL is a CD because it's haste
cobalt seal
and you notice it
strong forum
haste is also an amplifier
sick sentinel
crit is good for everyone, bigger heals bigger dmg
strong forum
unlike other stats
sick sentinel
affects all clases
strong forum
crit is RNG
haste isnt
its guaranteed value
every class has different benefits and different scalings for mastery, so that could be broken too easily, vers is just wrong
sick sentinel
more % to critical chance, more likely to do big dmg during CD windows
if anything i'd be worried that the crit ones would be way too effective, you bring like, fire mage, rogue, hunter, they all like critical alot, boss too easy now
strong forum
mage gets 100% crit during combust - so they gain nothing
DH eyebeam crits 100% of the time - so they gain nothing
sick sentinel
only during combust unless they have way to 100% combust
strong forum
if a mage doesnt have combust for lust
theyre trolling
haste is literally their best stat for combust
and afaik firemage only wants a finite amount of crit cuz more than iirc 33% is just wasted
if not less
blazing condor
i miss NW spear crits
strong forum
literally the worst dungeon of SL
strong forum
its literally the worst dungeon
love a dungeon where 3/4 bosses can get fucked up extremely easily and if you dont have weapons its GG
love a dungeon that just kills itself
so good
strong forum
easy doesnt mean good
blazing condor
it doesn't
lofty widget
it's out of your hands if you time or not for the most part
i think that makes it slightly worse
sick sentinel
i been trying to do venthyr fire mage cuz of the ability, it summons 3 mirror images, and when they expire, fire blast gets reset, so you use it before combust with 2 hot streaks and 2/3 fire blasts ready
blazing condor
blazing condor
HOA is weird because the first half is ass on fort but i like it on tyr
second half is ass on tyr
sick sentinel
then all you do is instant spell, (fb > flames) > pyro, instant, pyro, instant, pyro .... repeating of course...
strong forum
hoa is ass cuz its the illusion of choice
you do 80% of the dungeon before first boss, then its practically 3 bosses back to back to back
strong forum
but you cant do the first 80% without doing all 3 shards, which are 60% already