Giver's Quickness Healeye - Party play build

[livid rock]

1000th message

[wraith mountain]

the only opportunity cost on hDE is not playing another class

[toxic robin]

and thats a HUGE one

[livid rock]

https://tenor.com/view/crushed-it-gif-18087987023179949748

[next nexus]

For the build you provided, that's not the only cost.

[modest light]

My brother in Christ, just admit you're wrong and move on

[main igloo]

The actual opportunity cost on hDE is the rest of your squad

[wraith mountain]

well, yes, but we can't do anything about it if we're going to play Healeye, can we ?

[alpine gulch]

You say that other builds have to make sacrifices to provide 25 might. We think that those sacrifices are not worth talking about (e.g. 1 page on firebrand every 20+ seconds, swapping to fire every once in a while on heal tempest, leaving rifle 3 open or running well of action on heal chronomancer, ...)

[livid rock]

Btw my DC crashed at some point while watching this. I had to restart it

[modest light]

I need another coffee for this

[main igloo]

Idk why this vloxx emote is really funny to me

[humble musk]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDiltBbhnYI

[next nexus]

Even within hDE you have "opportunity cost" in utility.

Malice tech wasn't even mentioned once

[wraith mountain]

that's your own problem, you say "theyre not worth talking about" but that just subjetctive view, the truth is that they exist even if you see them as minimal

[main igloo]

You actively don't have stab or aegis which is a pretty big opportunity cost

[next nexus]

Like how can we talk about it supposedly not having an "opportunity cost"

[shy scaffold]

Opportunity costs also go both ways for the good builds
You can take advantage of if you have a boon DPS partner with high might to bring more utility. Options open up

[wraith mountain]

for ?

[main igloo]

You cannot clear deimos CM without forcing another player to bring aegis or have a 5 block subgroup, which is not always possible

[wraith mountain]

malice tech ?

[next nexus]

Yes, malice tech.

[toxic robin]

you can always say its just a fun alternative and not supposed to be an upgrade or equal over any meta classes on any boss and people might be more understanding :)

[wraith mountain]

you don't even care about malice when using this build, malice is gigga bugged with scepter, what the hell are you even talking about

[alpine gulch]

@wraith mountain But look, here's what I would do:

• Reconsider the dark aura stuff since you have now learned more about how stealthing, heal and cleanse priorities work
• Provide some kind of PoV where you solo heal a raid boss (can duo heal if you are not comfortable doing solo heal in pugs)
• Make an updated version where you focus on what the build does well, while being honest about its downsides
• Avoid talking down other builds that are far better than this one
  If you did that, I think the reception would be positive.
  Just check the other thread here https://discord.com/channels/1480948556859969536/1511498966678769765 where someone posted their fun little ritualist lifesteal build. That build is far worse than your heal deadeye build, but it has zero mean messages, just constructive help

[next nexus]

Then you're playing the build wrong, what can I say.

[humble musk]

wdym this game has no bugs

[wraith mountain]

I mean you do care but it's still borderline unplannable round

[limpid kestrel]

on all meta builds that people take serious on endgame content, 25 might is the BASE REQUIREMENT of what a healer can do

there is a current meta called Role Compression
what is it? you want to shove as many things as possible on as few people as possible

if one healer can provide permanent 12 boons (paragon) and have a quick dps providing only quickness and doing big damage, that is preferable.
if you have a healer dealing with mechanics and you need a support with a big boon spread, that is preferable

what is not preferable is having a pure support role on each subgroup bringing unoptiomal support

what people consider "base boons"?
25 might, fury, quick, alac
what are "yes i want these boons"?
protect, swiftness, regeneration
what are situational boons that are MORE THAN WELCOME?
stability, aegis

the rest is not really necessary, but keep in mind A LOT OF BUILDS scale based on specific boons (scrapper scales with swiftness and stability), and some on raw amount of boons (deadeye gets 1% damage for every boon)

having 25 might is base, every healer can provide that, as I mentioned before, even scourge, and a healer should be focusing to do that. it is not "opportunity cost", it is bare minimum, healers should just do that unless they are doing some ultra specialized stuff and communicate that so the boon dps can cover for what is missing

[next nexus]

Not with the tech.

[wraith mountain]

you can't even do the heal burst every 3 seconds, don't need to heal comments on managing 1-2 intitatinve from you tbh

[modest light]

[pastel ginkgo]

hDE best build for Kela Kite

[modest light]

ok xxxpussyslayer69xxx

[humble musk]

you misspelled cdruid

[next nexus]

Not with your setup yea, but I can do more spamming with the tech you haven't ever mentioned.

[pastel ginkgo]

Damn you're right, my bad

[wraith mountain]

more spamming at half the value ?

[gleaming sparrow]

Behave or I’ll whoop your ass

[wraith mountain]

or is there some esoteric tech I don't know about

[sacred escarp]

K so hDE is a thing now.

Someone make cele DE thing now

[faint drum]

For anything that other healers can cover without forcing players to dodge, like Sama's attacks, Gorseval's slams, Ura/fuma knockbacks, etc.

[wind sun]

stealing my joke...

[pastel ginkgo]

Please don't whip me chrissy poo~

[next nexus]

No, independent of what you spam.

[main igloo]

Gorseval slam
Slothasaur fear
Keep Construct jump+knockdown
Samarog in general
Deimos mind crush (particularly painful for CM)
Conjured Amalgamate slams
Largos CM boonstrip
Qadim 1 flame wave
Cardinal Adina Hands of Eruption
Qadim the Peerless knockback wave

All of these are mechanics where you are expected to stab or aegis them to prevent them from negatively impacting your subgrkup

[next nexus]

If you knew the tech, you definitely wouldn't pistol 5.

[wraith mountain]

that doesn't even make sense

the question was what is the opportunity cost for

[humble musk]

those should be dodged by the dps ppl no? as for deimos CM, you use staff 5 to block it for yourself and then you res others

[wraith mountain]

please answer that

[faint drum]

On top of more esoteric tech like skipping the first set of teleports on VG.

[gleaming sparrow]

Let them talk it out, some people are seriously trying to educate the gw2 community.

[faint drum]

The cost is that someone else on your team has to deal with it.

[smoky fern]

actually, i havent kept up with whatever is going on here, what tech are you referring to out of curiosity?

[faint drum]

You're just not the one paying the cost.

[smoky fern]

share the arcane knowledge

[main igloo]

The opportunity cost of hDE is not having those things, so you either force someone else to bring them (dps loss) or force your subgroup to deal with them (dps loss)

[wind sun]

a real let them fight situation

[wraith mountain]

IF you chose to play this build on a fight that it can't perform well on

[modest light]

it's a lost cause, as you can see by the 1000+ messages and hours of trying to educate

[limpid kestrel]

one second, im getting hizen's build

[pastel ginkgo]

You're telling me this isn't rage bait

[limpid kestrel]

it is celestial, should work for healer

[dark bluff]

So what fights does it perform well on?

[wraith mountain]

I listed some, but you can find out by trying it out yourself

like any other heal build

[fading osprey]

MO maybe?

[toxic robin]

but you are advacating for it

[gleaming sparrow]

It is not.

[dark bluff]

I have played it on every single encounter except for W8 & Kela - I'm interested in your opinion

[toxic robin]

its as real as it gets

[wind sun]

guy called pussyslayer69 is not serious who could have seen it coming

[modest light]

You still have yet to prove any of your claims with this build. You said you tested on golem but can't even provide a log and expect people to believe you

[hasty lily]

every other heal build shared publicly has some kind of demo video to show how it plays, this doesn't ^^

[limpid kestrel]

even heal renegade has a video

[main igloo]

druid doesn't but thats because I am doing a master's and really should not be procrastinating on discord

[sacred escarp]

Pls dont

[limpid kestrel]

i mean heal renegade got pog stab and cc

[next nexus]

What if I do it for you

https://klipy.com/gifs/iu-jestina-12

[toxic robin]

tbh he also listed q1 cm which literally does need stab and aegis or at least very much expects it

[wraith mountain]

about any encounter where you don't need stability or spam condition removal, and especially good for fights with high burst where you can stack barrier, or split groups where you can heal people from far way (vale guardian/ quadim/ boneskinner/ sabetha)

[main igloo]

Pleas ;-;

That would be a very big help I haven't gotten to updating the guide for w8 either

[limpid kestrel]

steamshrieker cele druid build showcase????

[main igloo]

But w8 is pretty standard outside of "bring all of your CC for ura"

[next nexus]

Nobody except me has either 😅

[wraith mountain]

it's time to make one then, get out there and do it :D

[main igloo]

You do it! You have the burden of proof

[toxic robin]

well we are saying this isnt a real build you are saying its good

[hasty lily]

I'm not the one advocating for heal quickness deadeye, you do it 😭

[main igloo]

You have made the claim about hDE's efficacy

[wraith mountain]

I don't have any burden

[toxic robin]

maybe you should show is its good

[main igloo]

You are the one who needs to show people that it is good

[wraith mountain]

I just shared a fun build :D

[main igloo]

A fun build that actively trolls people who participate with it

[wraith mountain]

you should try it yourself eitehr way so how does a video help

[toxic robin]

you also argued its better than the meta in many ways

[wraith mountain]

In some ways

[faint drum]

Based on your pros/cons, it's a build that should shine on an encounter that has enough healing pressure that maxing out barrier is viable or that needs thief-specific utility, but where you don't need generic healing utility like stab and aegis. That's basically, what, Cerus CM?

[wind sun]

you should know better than to try sharing builds in an mmo though

[wraith mountain]

literally listed above

[limpid kestrel]

does it spam more or less stealth than scrapper? asking for my deadeye friend btw

[wraith mountain]

but you could add dagda in there

[main igloo]

Probably more stealth than scrapper xdd

[wraith mountain]

and most of the EoD raids

[faint drum]

Why are you playing anything other than cele on Dag "9 minute slog" da

[main igloo]

Dadga really wants a celeheal yeah

[limpid kestrel]

so, you are saying it is good on fights that have no healing pressure

[faint drum]

Yeah yeah, "fun".

[main igloo]

The pressure is from people being stupid

[dark bluff]

So I have actually played it on Cerus CM (a year ago+ tho)

It's kinda pain...

And you lack any meaningful utility

[limpid kestrel]

i mean why not go with a catalyst

[main igloo]

Exactly

[limpid kestrel]

you can troll a deadeye in your team and that is enough utlity

[gleaming sparrow]

Team, I actually have a question:

Is there a chance this is all rage bait and made for funsies and some good content?

Are we gonna have some YouTube video uploaded tomorrow called „This is how to rage bait the gw2 community!“

Would be funny right

[wraith mountain]

because ally downing is bigger dps loss than me doing 2k less dps as a healer, and I like not trolling the group by going Cele

[sacred escarp]

It ahould be

[toxic robin]

that would actually be really funny

[modest light]

It’s absolutely rage bait

[sacred escarp]

Like the name is a dead giveaway

[pastel ginkgo]

S-Tier rage bait, got the whole squad fuming

[faint drum]

Ah well if you can only pull 2k on cele, then sure.

[modest light]

But innocent newbies might fall for this stuff

[wind sun]

honestly good content idea

after exams I might get on that

[wraith mountain]

lack of portals and projectile destruction would be 2 points

[livid rock]

I had the same feeling when I saw their account name

[pastel ginkgo]

i am curious if cele condi quick deadeye can do more than specter on MO though

[next nexus]

Cata has more proj destruction that hDE.

And hAnti has more than both, honestly hDE has a lot of it.

[dark bluff]

Thief portal is still one-way right?

[pastel ginkgo]

trust the bean

[wraith mountain]

?

[alpine gulch]

Yeah, so the qadim thing only sort of works

[wraith mountain]

cata heal ?

[alpine gulch]

Like it depends on the strat

[faint drum]

There's no list in the top post and I got bored after scrolling for 200 messages trying to find your list, so if you posted a full list of encounters where you think it's good, my bad, I couldn't find it.

[thin zealot]

Magnetic aura

[limpid kestrel]

catalyst heal is one o the strongest healer sin game and yes, it can bring a lot of projectile destruction

[next nexus]

You really are missing a lot of info about healers aren't ya.

[wraith mountain]

what if isn't ragebait, what if it just my horrific, unfilltered opinion, what then ?

[modest light]

Well your opinion is objectively wrong lmao

[limpid kestrel]

then it is fine, but a lot of people arguing here are like on the edge of game performance and giving feedback, instead of fighting them you could learn some

[pastel ginkgo]

https://tenor.com/view/jose-mourinho-sweet-trouble-gif-26762341

[wraith mountain]

I think you're just trolling at this point

[alpine gulch]

Then you should be doing this here^

[next nexus]

I'm not in any way

[wraith mountain]

you talked about 2 diffrent techs without actually saying what they do

[modest light]

Everyone here has been trying to educate you.

[wraith mountain]

and you could not perform on the same build we talekd about before

[next nexus]

Because your build physically doesn't allow for it.

[wraith mountain]

so I have some very high skepticism now if you actually even know what you pretend to talk about of if you're just acting like that

[next nexus]

Mathematically it doesn't work

[wraith mountain]

but I did it

[gleaming sparrow]

Nah, then you are just silly making 10 claims about things you only have „I can yap“ while having 0 conclusive proof / log / pov to back it up.

[dark bluff]

Tbh it's fine, just not as nice as a mesmer port as you've gotta run to the pylon

[wraith mountain]

I shared the rotation

you can go do it yourslef

anytime

[cedar burrow]

Let's remember to keep things civil and respectful as well in the appropriate channels.

[faint drum]

With thief portal you kinda want to have only a couple people do the pyre.

Well you want that anyway, but even more so with one-way portals.

[modest light]

Brother, these are the people who spend hours working on builds and are trusted sources.

[faint drum]

Worst thing is that people don't see your portal and then complain 😔

"Where portal" brother press F it's right there

[humble musk]

thats why you have TWO heal deadeyes

duh

[dark bluff]

Omg the visibility is horrible

[wraith mountain]

could use more telegraphing on the theif portal

[next nexus]

nah, I'd hAnti and dancer it.

[indigo swan]

if only visibility was the only issue with thief portal, and not the fact that it is single way

[humble musk]

once u put the second one then the previous one disapepars no?

[alpine gulch]

It has some unique upsides as well

[dark bluff]

Assuming they haven't fixed the bug, yes

We ran into that issue a lot running double thief portal in some meme content

[humble musk]

what bug, there are no bugs in this game

[next nexus]

You have to blink back of course.

[dark bluff]

Sorry, that... feature?

[humble musk]

game mechanic

[next nexus]

But at least people don't have to run twice.

[gleaming sparrow]

Conclusive proof / log / POV <> Rotation.

https://snowcrows.com/builds/raids/elementalist/heal-alacrity-tempest-dagger-warhorn
this has listed 3 videos with insanely detailed informations in the povs

https://snowcrows.com/builds/raids/mesmer/heal-boon-chronomancer-rifle-scepter-shield

this has also a pov backing everything up

https://snowcrows.com/builds/raids/guardian/heal-quickness-firebrand-staff-axe-shield

even this has a pov backing everything claimed up - even though people are just horrible at playing heal firebrand

So yeah, as long as I don’t see any log / pov / conclusive proof of anything you said, you are indeed only rage baiting

[pastel ginkgo]

the goat

[gleaming sparrow]

Ok, leaving again, time to grab ice cream

[warm inlet]

Could you get one more for me ?

[wraith mountain]

nah

[faint drum]

Place portal 1 exit at pyre -> step to boss -> open portal 1 -> reset portal -> place portal 2 exit at boss (destroying portal 1) -> unstep to pyre -> open portal 2 at pyre?

[alpine gulch]

I can see the "no valid path to target" message in front of my inner eye already

But actually that might work except that shadow step is not enough range obviously

[toxic robin]

it must be rage bait...

[alpine gulch]

So the timing might be awkward

[dark bluff]

You could step back before the platform splits, should be able to port back with it still?

[next nexus]

It's very awkward to do.

But what if sword 2

https://klipy.com/gifs/iu-jestina-12

[alpine gulch]

yeah you can definitely short bow 5 across gaps, it's just that the pyre is like 2k+ range away and shadow step will not be enough for that

so you will run quite a bit and probably not be in time to take the squad both ways

[faint drum]

Cooking with thief gas.

[fossil jetty]

wrong!!

[hard rock]

So what's the build still usable as creator said or where some changes done?

[wraith mountain]

Idk what's up with you guys and asian women gifs, but I really do not see how this has any connection to this thread, or server by any means

it's like the 3rd one so it's strange

[next nexus]

Reaction gifs

It's like emojis, but cooler

[wraith mountain]

but there are others ?

[humble musk]

3 gifs in a 1500 msg thread is not that bad

[modest light]

Got a problem with gorgeous Asian ladies or something ?

[wraith mountain]

yes, but it's strange that it happened 3 times

[faint drum]

"Threat" because I'm threatening to play HDE in a static run after this.

[alpine gulch]

#1511479176543076402 message I think this post here (not by the creator) is a reasonably optimal version of the build - with the caveat that it's not a very good raid build

[modest light]

-# buddy not realizing what is sarcasm

[alpine gulch]

Specter is better in every way except not providing quickness (it does alacrity instead)

[humble musk]

thats what karakosa relic is for

[hard rock]

Thank you very much ^^

[wraith mountain]

I thin this is ragebait and that build you linked is most probabbly the worst heal build in the game, with a literally unusable utility skill

[thin zealot]

You might not know this but Dan uses that alot, so its understandable if you find it strange but its not out of the norm for dan.

[wraith mountain]

or would you rather send a log with it and prove me wrong ?

:o)

[alpine gulch]

If you are after a quickness heal build and are not married to thief, then looking at quick heal on other builds (e.g. troubadour or firebrand or catalyst) could be interesting

[thin zealot]

You first

[modest light]

You should be the one sending logs.

You’ve gotten enough proof from people.

[wraith mountain]

I got none about their opinions on this build

[modest light]

The burden of proof is 100% on you.

[next nexus]

Literally your build, but with a non-stealthing util to not troll people.

[wraith mountain]

and and entire trait line changed

and completely different gameplay

yeah, the exact same build btw

[humble musk]

but trolling rainer with random stealth fields and blasting them is fun

[next nexus]

They had to optimize it, cause that's what you're after after all.

[modest light]

It’s a better build that doesn’t grief your entire squad.

[alpine gulch]

I have made two videos and two screenshots to explain thief mechanics and GW2 mechanics to you and shown nothing but politeness for the past 8 hours you've kept this discussion going by refusing all evidence. I made helpful suggestions to make your build suggestion appeal more to other people, which you have ignored, and that's the "thanks" 😄
I get it, it's easy to get defensive when 30 people tell you you are wrong in different ways and literally nobody tells you that what you are doing is a good idea. But maybe, just maybe, this should give the hint that this is not a good build idea.

[faint drum]

It's the same traitlines.

It's Trickery/SA (the other kind)/Deadeye.

[cedar burrow]

I'm going to ask you to stop at this point. If you do not agree or support this build/theorycrafting, that is fine, but please unfollow the thread to let those that do discuss.

[fossil jetty]

i think this is a great discussion about viability of classes 🙂

[wraith mountain]

so entierly differnet shadow arts

[main igloo]

Really it's the viability of healers

Deadeye does not have support for a healer through arenanet, nor does it have the ability to be supported without gutting the entire traitline to make room which should not be done, deadeye is fine as is

[thin zealot]

https://youtu.be/I5Pzfs_8rvw?si=E-Arra9xZCsaGKgZ

[humble musk]

shinjitsu

[sacred escarp]

He did it

[wraith mountain]

you guys will literally take prepare seal area, which has a 3 second delay, is horrendeous to use and does some projectile block when you probabbly don't need it over shadow refuge who does aoe heal, revive, and is still a dark field just because shadow refuge does 1 instance of stealth and that loses a bit of dps

while the skill provides about 6000 more healing

[main igloo]

Well de isn't necessarily fine as is, recent nerf patch gutted weapon diversity, but it's fine from a traitline standpoint

[wraith mountain]

that's who I'm arguing with

[modest light]

You are still arguing with people who are infinitely more knowledgeable than you

[faint drum]

Yeah sure, build is unrecognizable now because of two traits.

[main igloo]

Bro cannot predict a predetermined mechanic happening

[indigo swan]

And makes your dps players want to uninstall because they get memed by stealth

[desert basin]

Guys, 1.3k messages in this thread

[indigo swan]

It's disruptive, period.

Regardless of how little dps you may lose

It disrupts the flow of a player

[wraith mountain]

are they in the room with us, because all I see are people arguing about builds they won't or can't play properly

[modest light]

Yes, actually.

[gleaming sparrow]

@maaaaaaaaaaaaaax

[fossil jetty]

several people are typing!!

[main igloo]

hDE showcase

First thing that happens is getting knocked down by Gorseval

[wraith mountain]

real

actually you can blind the adds

and dodge groserval

[humble musk]

DAMN

[fossil jetty]

[main igloo]

Notably, that would not happen if you had stability on the build

0 dodges would be required

[humble musk]

or kill gorseval before he does the slam, its rly the fault of the dps ppl they cant phase it in less than 3 seconds

[main igloo]

True! Just learn 2 burst better ez dub

[indigo swan]

thief doesn't have stability according to con number 2 🙃

[hard rock]

Ren doesn't want to dodge right since it loses DPS so I need my stab pls

[fossil jetty]

you could also just not play a healer on gorseval and then there is no quickness heal deadeye needed

[main igloo]

Ok but it's ren I am biased they took my cool herald mechanic idea and put it on ren

[gleaming sparrow]

@warm inlet I can’t post a picture of the ice cream, upload from phone is not working, check CnD dc

[wraith mountain]

once every 40 seconds

[main igloo]

Share ice cream with the class :)

[wraith mountain]

IF they do chain auto attacks exactly then

[livid rock]

They should've play cDruid

[warm inlet]

Ty

[main igloo]

True and real

[humble musk]

make sure to check out https://discord.com/channels/1480948556859969536/1511742606747635753

[desert basin]

1.3k messages, can someone tldr if this giver quickness healeye build good or nah

[hard rock]

Just play hammer Ren on gorse and stay out of range of the knock

[indigo swan]

no

play specter

[desert basin]

Ty

[alpine gulch]

can also read from here #1511479176543076402 message

[modest light]

the fact that there are this many messages should give you your answer lol

[wraith mountain]

this is also targeting the boss instead of an ally for the auto attacks, losing a lot of barrier

if you have autotarget on you never have to click on the enemy on healeye

[desert basin]

@wraith mountain your id reminded me good old CS1.6 days haha

[wraith mountain]

bro cannot math out 6000 vs 0

tradition, idk

it's offtopic

[humble musk]

i need a calculator for this much advanced math tbh

[hard rock]

Think about cdruid and compare numbers there maybe it helps

[wraith mountain]

||blish|| is somewhere in the fractals

he can do the math for you

since you guys love addons and logs so much

[modest light]

Now you're really off the original topic, which is your bad heal deadeye build

[modest light]

You can't even prove your concept

addons and logs are there to support claims

[wraith mountain]

It was proven in a video above, albeit suboptimally

[wraith mountain]

I have no claim to support and no one to coinvience

[modest light]

no, YOU make a video and share a log

[wraith mountain]

if you want to try the build go ahead, if not be silent :D

[hard rock]

@wraith mountain is that a concept idea or a build you play sometimes?

[modest light]

You have been making claims for hours, saying this build is viable, yet you cannot prove it and argue with everyone telling you that your build is not good

You literally didn't listen to the one person who does play the build

[sullen nova]

its a compleatly meme build the video is a complete meme too

[wraith mountain]

he didn't even perform the base loop on it

did he even play it then ?

[sullen nova]

it barely works if your boon dps are slaving

you should try m7 to get aegis access tho

surely its good

[modest light]

No one is going to play your build because it's not good.

[wraith mountain]

also he played, again, with 3 different trait lines and different gameplay

[alpine gulch]

the video was also pre shadow arts rework

[sullen nova]

true

[modest light]

Again, you have the burden of proof here.

[wraith mountain]

I do play it sometimes

[modest light]

And you have done nothing to prove anything.

[gleaming sparrow]

You seem like you could need some ice cream too

[wraith mountain]

not too often tho, as of course it's not the best on fights which need stability

[gleaming sparrow]

Dw friend it’s fine

[wraith mountain]

which are not the majority but are quite a lot

[hard rock]

Can you record it. I would like to make a thief since I'm missing one and would gear it since j like the idea of a stealth healer

[modest light]

I'll get some on the way to work, where I am paid to argue with people 😉

[wraith mountain]

I can not since I don't have recording software on my pc

[gleaming sparrow]

Take care

[hard rock]

You got shadow play or able to download obs by any chance?

[wraith mountain]

no

[alpine gulch]

or arcdps for a log

[wraith mountain]

but I can share the rotation

[alpine gulch]

Or just something to support your arguments

[wraith mountain]

or do a live demonstration

if you're in game

if you're actually intersted about playing it instead of arguing about it, which seems to be the norm around here

[hard rock]

Not home atm sadly was hoping you can get a video done or anything so I can check at home later

[wraith mountain]

nah

[wind sun]

You can stream it on discord so remagic can volunteer to watch

[alpine gulch]

Normally I would say there's no harm in other people playing suboptimal builds, but here I kind of care because you're literally reducing other people's DPS if you stealth them every 3 seconds

[wraith mountain]

only if they are autoattacking then

and doing so without pressing 1

I think you keep forgetting that

[tiny jackal]

making all the holo mains sad with that one

[sullen nova]

what if they are all pdd or power anti

[alpine gulch]

No, your gameplay pattern means I would have to queue the autoattack after my skill

[wraith mountain]

I'm sorry :<

[alpine gulch]

If I don't, i immediately have a DPS loss. And that's happening every 3 seconds

[hard rock]

They can just step out of the stealth field no?

[wraith mountain]

or just use another skill ?

[alpine gulch]

Nope, he's the one sharing the stealth in 360 radius around them

[hard rock]

Ah I thought it was a skill aoe on the ground

[wraith mountain]

you can but then you lose the healing too

stealth = heal + condi removal

[alpine gulch]

basically it's a combo of a smoke field that then turns all blasts into 360 radius stealths around the skill that was used to blast

[wraith mountain]

and stealth heal + condi removal > dark heal + condi removal

but stealth = - ~2000 damage if you're afk autoattacking in that momment

[alpine gulch]

Wdym "afk autoattacking", I am just doing my normal rotation

[wraith mountain]

and that seems to be just too much for the afk autoattacking dps maxers here

[alpine gulch]

And then this thief will at random points eat my inputs

[wraith mountain]

if you're doing your normal rotation the chance that stealth loses you damage is much lower

if you chain skills stealth does nothing to you

[wind sun]

It is infuriating on reaper at least and you have to tell everyone in the squad beforehand that you intend to stealth them randomly and repeatedly

[hard rock]

Does stealth interrupts your key binds? Never happened to me on rev

Or never felt it maybe

[humble musk]

just out of curiosity - isnt it weird for you that you have been for hours now arguing here against ppl that can be considered as some of the most experienced players when it comes to raid builds? i get that you might have your own experiences with the game and with the build, but maybe you are trying to compare it to different scenarios? as your scenario would suggest one where the dps people do the mechanics themselves and our scenario one where you optimise the supports so that the dps ppl are as comfy as they can get

[alpine gulch]

If you go 2 3 4 5 and get stealthed in between nothing bad will happen, no

[wraith mountain]

rev, ele, engineer and other builds where you spend a lot of time not auto attacking won't even notice the stealth most of the time (unless you do some afk fire/ sword revenant build)

[hard rock]

I auto alot on rev sadly tho

[alpine gulch]

But if it happens every 3 seconds that you get stealthed, it is bound to hit you during an autoattack at some point within, let's say 10 seconds

[hard rock]

During my shortbow time

[wraith mountain]

the people considered as some of the most experienced players ... by themselves ?

[main igloo]

Rev autos a decent amount yeah

[wraith mountain]

the people that constantly have suboptimal and wrong heal builds on their websites, and their dps benches are taken from random people all over youtube ?

[hard rock]

Maybe I never found out about it so much will take a look at it

[wraith mountain]

no, not really wierd if you ask me

[pastel ginkgo]

dont stealth a staff thief please

or another deadeye*

[hard rock]

Once I'm.home and rdy to play

So see ya guys ^^

[alpine gulch]

I don't like to argue by authority, it's not what makes one side or the other one correct

But

It should make you think still, maybe consider why people are disagreeing with you

[wind sun]

Suboptimal because you said so or do you have receipts on that one too

[main igloo]

Don't stealth people who don't know they are going to be stealthed ftfy

[wind sun]

And the benches are a community effort why would that make it a bad thing

[alpine gulch]

It's funny if you put a smoke field under a DD, he will just stealth himself with bounding dodger after the dodge hits, and then if he doesn't notice the next staff 1 will be glorious. This then also locks him out of receiving healing or condi cleanse for the next 4 seconds from those stealth synergies

[humble musk]

not by themselves, the people you have been arguing with are either in the best guilds in the game or are actively optimising builds and helping others, while taking in suggestions from others
if you look at the snow crows site you can see a lot of effort put into the builds and if you look at their discord you will see lengthy conversations about every build if you look for them

[humble gull]

Hey, healer sc page maker here
What did I miss

[hard rock]

Hello Darshie :3

[wraith mountain]

cele is forever suboptimal simply because of stat distribution, that's the receipt :D

[main igloo]

The creation of the modern SC website is very much so a group effort and complaining about suboptimality is strange when you are 1 person arguing against a group who will actively challenge each other on their notions if there's room to argue

[main igloo]

Not much ngl

[next nexus]

Quite literally the best stat distribution for hybrid healers.

[humble musk]

Sure you might know more about the game than anyone else, however i feel like noone knows it right now, as from what i can see, you arent really on community servers and dont discuss with others. And when you get into a discussion you dont even consider accepting other's point of view

[humble gull]

I see arguments for shadow refuge and shadow's embrace

[main igloo]

Wow tipcat's here too all my friends are showing up this is quite the party

Hi tipcat

[gleaming sparrow]

Hi Tipcat big fan

[pastel ginkgo]

he has been lurking for a while

[hard rock]

[pastel ginkgo]

big fan tipcat

[humble gull]

waiting to tipstrike

[lunar hare]

Hi Tipcat big fan

[alpine gulch]

seraph's is better for heal virtuoso

[humble musk]

tipcaaaaaat yooo

[main igloo]

My favorite healer

[wraith mountain]

lenghy conversations like this, where instead of comparing data and testing stuff people ask for "proof" and troll all the time ?

[raw cloud]

oh, Chris, huge fan

[pastel ginkgo]

CHRIS IS HERE

i hope he whips me

[main igloo]

What the heck

[gleaming sparrow]

Parnie, hide, before Asterius finds us

[thin zealot]

Flying too close to the sun there

[humble musk]

the thing is, you yourself dont have any proof nor data, whilst we have been raiding for a long time, have a lot of PoVs and experience

[hard rock]

@knotty cape

[humble musk]

@gleaming sparrow my favourite captain

[lunar hare]

🤏

[gleaming sparrow]

I can’t with you

[humble gull]

just off of what I can see here, every heal build on the site will cause your group to do more damage, because use of ally stealth will cause rotation interruptions? So that'd be the first data point i'd look at. There's ways to make this build work without affecting ally rotations

[wraith mountain]

"hybrid healers" are an abomination that only exists because of extreme mimaxing dps players trying to cosplay supports, which is an issue of the community itself

[humble gull]

...

[wind sun]

So... It's optimal?

[wraith mountain]

healers/supports should support, there just isn't enough traiting in the game to do both it and damage at the same time

[wind sun]

Optimal as in, the best?

[wraith mountain]

and that's a fact

[humble gull]

ok but like what if the group is good enough you can use less healing and kill the boss a little bit before a mechanic happens or something

[fossil jetty]

doe supporting include not griefing your dps players?

[humble gull]

Like, that's straight up better right

[fossil jetty]

with stealth or sth?

[main igloo]

If you skip the threatening part by being a better performing group then you don't need the healing

[fossil jetty]

asking for a friend

[pastel ginkgo]

so. You think. In a fight with no healing pressure. You need a healer pumping heals?

[wraith mountain]

you mean golem ?

[pastel ginkgo]

MO

[wraith mountain]

the training golem ?

[humble musk]

that is just simply not true, on several bosses the healing pressure is just very very low, to the point you dont need a full healer, so many groups just take a celestial one to have more damage while not healing less, for example xera or largos or something like that

[next nexus]

There isn't enough, yet I soloheal on celes while handling every mechanic regularly?

[alpine gulch]

This is not a fact, just a hunch - but is it possible that some defensive cele troubadour setups have way more healing than heal deadeye?

[hasty lily]

Cele healers came about simply because most encounters don't need a full healer's healing, so you're being less efficient by wasting healing, so instead you swap out wasted healing for DPS to make it go faster

[main igloo]

Skipping World Eater on Gorseval is a clear cut example

[humble musk]

https://www.rpsgame.org/room?id=no3ol

[main igloo]

If you skip that attack the fight goes faster

So doing more DPS means you do the fight faster

[next nexus]

Yes, celetemp troub and specter are more.

[main igloo]

Which means enabling your subgroup to do more damage will serve you better than adding additional healing

[next nexus]

Idk about the other celes

[main igloo]

Rock mains rise up

[humble gull]

cele firebrand pretty low

[gleaming sparrow]

People killing w8 ura lcm with celestial healers. They are truly an abomination by the community

[humble gull]

might actually be roughly even

[gleaming sparrow]

[pastel ginkgo]

damn you're good

[humble musk]

its a best of 3 cmon

achman

[pastel ginkgo]

u dc'd?

[humble musk]

actually bo 5

it said you dcd for me, ill send another one

https://www.rpsgame.org/room?id=1t8uz