#Serious

1 messages · Page 8 of 1

finite sail
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70s (i think?) middle east looked like it was awesome

dawn quartz
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"That's my story and I'm sticking to it!"
As I said before, reminds me of addict behaviour.

glass wyvern
jagged birch
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Until the ball gets stolen

dawn quartz
glass wyvern
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Yes seems to have dispersed and rearranging into smaller offensive units

jagged birch
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Possession is 9/10ths of my ball

glass wyvern
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@grave brook how are you managing right now with the inflation / sanctions situation. Has it affected you directly much or is it still relatively calm in that regard?

jagged birch
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This sucks. There is so much news that the news is starting to sound like a fevered dream. Are they trying to compete with the news cycle circe 2016-2020?

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This is why I liked Robert Hunter.

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He took the news and cut it into digestable pieces and fed you the relevant bits

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He explained their relationships

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He was not kind to news reporters who colored the facts to obfuscate the bigger issues at play

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Incidentally he also founded "Green Peace"

glass wyvern
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Channel 4 news in the UK was great like that. They would cut right through the bullshit and then some

jagged birch
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He was one of those hippies with a boat blocking fishers

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Harpooning corporate ships

grave brook
# glass wyvern <@210695091365478400> how are you managing right now with the inflation / sancti...

well, now i cant buy smth from abroad (rip my pre-orders of anime figures)
i have to postpone any tech purchases indefinetely, prices there have already jumped more than double
cant buy subscriptions like Netflix, Spotify, etc., cant order McD
had to buy VPN (this one is maybe more due to domestic stuff but i'll leave it here anyway)
cant buy clothes i used to buy (they left too)
this was about QoL

The prices for groceries and this kind of stuff is still in process of growing, for now it went up to like 20%, but who knows where it stops. its bearable for me, but im an IT guy in Moscow, so im not very representative in terms of how masses feel it.
and my savings devalued significantly

jagged birch
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Gas prices actually dropped 15 cents today here

grave brook
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oh yea i heard oil prices jumped high so did gas around the world

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idk if it did here, im not a driver so i did not track

jagged birch
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Initial increase was about 20 cents over a week time, but they're dropping again

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Its to be expected

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Cut one source, replace it with another

dawn quartz
glass wyvern
gray swift
finite sail
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gotta invest in those oil futures

gray swift
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Can tell you that profiteering like that in Europe during WW2, to rase prises for food or oil was punishable by fireingsquad or up to 20 years in prison, and a fine of twice the proffet earned.

Different times now

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Was called the war profiteering prevention act, or similar names depending on the country

jagged birch
dawn quartz
finite sail
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oh

dawn quartz
brittle nymph
# dawn quartz https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3426879-captured-russian-pilot-says-he-knew...

This argument has never made any sense to me. It's as if people are lending any credence to the idea that the people taking part in the war have no clue what they're doing. This one at least makes a bit of sense, a pilot can't exactly aim a magnifying glass downwards, but it's still obvious enough what's going on.

I saw a news report today of how a captured Russian soldier in a tank division was claiming they were unaware they were even fighting in Ukraine, why they were fighting there, and who they were fighting against.

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Not a single person in your division has any idea that you're in Ukraine? Nobody had any idea you were fighting in a war, nor did you know you were actively shooting Ukrainians? You never saw any of the signposts, noticeboards, posters? Everyone in the division somehow missed all of that?

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And the better question, how can you morally shoot at someone simply because you were told to? I served as a ranger and I can tell you that neither myself, nor any of my friends, would ever shoot at somebody just because we were told that they were the enemy. We'd need reasonable reasons for doing something like that.

Gah. Whole thing really irritates me. Hopefully when the conscripts get drawn up they don't try claim the same thing.

dawn quartz
glass wyvern
grave brook
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also info from state-sponsored UA sources should be taken with almost the same grain of salt as RU state-sponsored sources, especially when u see ATO in the link

jagged birch
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Better a liar in prison for following orders than someone who murders children

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There is the lie we tell others, then there is the lie we tell ourselves. The one we tell others we know is not the truth, but the lie we tell ourselves can become the truth as the human mind seeks to pervert reality to fit the narrative best suited to its survival.

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There is a scary psychology behind the lies born of trauma in the way the mind tries to make sense of the nightmares.

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I've heard Russia has a history of doing things to families of deserters

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If they can not target the person they are firing at they will target their family and friends who are otherwise innocent.

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A lot of conservative media outlets are spitting out these stories of captured russian soldiers. I find it not the least bit suspicious.

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I'd like to confirm whether or not Astakhov Dmitry Mikhailovich is a commander in the Russian army.

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He has said some pretty startling things about Russia if he is.

grave brook
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ringing no bells to me, and surface googling gives only some video ur probably refering to

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nothing prior 26 Feb

jagged birch
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Russian media have not asked Russian officials if this man is one of theirs?

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Most of the media outlets that would dare ask have left the country

grave brook
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dunno, but u know what currently Russian media is

jagged birch
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I don't know. I worry it's turning into North Korea.

grave brook
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cant google out any comments on this dude from ru officials

jagged birch
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Do you get commander in Russia the same way you get commander in other military through promotions for service or is it based on something else?

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I mean....commander is not a low rank

grave brook
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what i can say based on common knowledge is, this Astakhov is claimed to be a colonel of national guard, and first, its sus how a fkin colonel gets captured, and the second, national guard should not even be in Ukraine, this unit does not do external operations

grave brook
jagged birch
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Is he a colonel or a commander?

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Ah I see

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National Guard Lieutenant Colonel

grave brook
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yep

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not sure how commander is translated to russian military title tbh

jagged birch
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Well...He made the Time Magazine

glass wyvern
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Am I wrong in saying that in the first days they sent a riot police squad into Ukraine

jagged birch
grave brook
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if they did then capturing this guy makes at least some sence (still unknown what such a high rank guy would do somewhere to be captured tho)

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but why even send national guard, which is yea, riot police, in the first place, idk

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but im not good with military meta

glass wyvern
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This isn’t the only source. There’s a video of them confronting the Governor that you’ll be able to understand way better than me lol

grave brook
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this one is OMON

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like, special operations police department

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these guys probably were sent

glass wyvern
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Ahh ok

grave brook
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natguard is more like chill unit that doesnt get sent to real fights

glass wyvern
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Understood. I personally find it odd to send even special police over enemy lines, for me in my mind that’s a military thing unless these police form part of the military in some way.

grave brook
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well, these are like military

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fighting terrorists, this kind of stuff

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maybe SWAT is a good analogy?

jagged birch
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What is the phone most used in Russia?

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Manufacture

glass wyvern
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Ok, makes a little more sense in that instance given the rhetoric used at the start

grave brook
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phone to report crimes?

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102

jagged birch
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No

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Soldiers generally have cell phones or devices for receiving orders.

glass wyvern
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Like Nokia, Apple, Samsung etc you mean?

jagged birch
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yes

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I can't imagine they'd be using apple

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Maybe Wauwei

grave brook
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prob apple

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well, not since now

glass wyvern
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As I understand the army guys are getting phones taken off them before the go into Ukraine

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But I cannot verify this for sure

grave brook
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im a samsung guy personally

jagged birch
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How do they get orders while behind enemy lines if they have no contact with command?

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Are they following a script and that's it?

grave brook
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those with worse income are more to huawei/xiaomi/realme side

glass wyvern
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Field equipment

jagged birch
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Ah

glass wyvern
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There will be special comms that the battalion leader has etc

grave brook
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ye probably

jagged birch
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This aggression needs to stop. There's no way for Russia to "win" in any short or long term. Even if they killed the president of Ukraine there are a million Ukrainians ready to take his place.

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And an ideology that has galvanized their front

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Russia is making Ukraine stronger.

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and Russia weaker on every other front

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but for NATO, this would be world war already

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Maybe world war is the objective

finite socket
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speculation lol

jagged birch
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I told ya last week this would happen

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Russian troops have taken control of a humanitarian convoy traveling from Zaporizhia to Mariupol. Seized humanitarian aid - Zaporizhia administration

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https://t.me/suspilnenews/7725

Telegram
СУСПІЛЬНЕ НОВИНИ

Російські війська взяли під контроль гуманітарний конвой, який їхав із Запоріжжя до Маріуполя.

«На кожному блок-посту окупанти насильно вилучали їжу, одяг та засоби гігієни», — повідомили у Запорізькій ОВА.

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The military response from russian command will be that they seized a supply line meant for enemy soldiers, not food for starving civilians

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Deutsche Bank withdrawing business in Russia

jagged birch
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Watch: US is going to make a shipment of goods to Ukraine obnoxiously obvious way in advance of getting to Germany or Poland in the hope that Russia is stupid enough to attack it before it is in Ukraine after the most recent threats Russia has made to supplies, claiming they're game as military targets by Russia.

If Russia takes the bait, they'll justify a NATO response, because the supplies will not actually be what they are claimed to. They will have only ever been a means to draw NATO to Russia by getting Russia to force their hand.

finite socket
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lol ok.

quiet oyster
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Can someone remove this fuck stick from this thread please. Literally nothing he has said has been at all creative, in fact been the opposite.

timber delta
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Who? Mumbles?

quiet oyster
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Valkie.

timber delta
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Oh idk then I've blocked some people just so I could read mumbles' updates

quiet oyster
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I should do the same tbf.

jagged birch
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@grave brook Have things improved at all in the Russian suburbia day 2 day?

grave brook
jagged birch
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It is my hope that governmental direction might respond such that the russian people become priority #1 over the Ukrainians.

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but russia is a black box rn

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Very little is getting out about how good or bad they're doing on the ground

grave brook
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prices are going up
salaries and subsidies are not going up

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maybe they are doing some under-the-hood stuff to at least prevent shortages, idk

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the only things being shortaged atm are women's hygiene items

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russian stock market is still closed preventing the rouble from further falling

jagged birch
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Longest closure in russian history I'm told

grave brook
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probably

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russian economy didnt expect their foreign assets to be arrested

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and things got out of hand

jagged birch
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It surprises me that the response to these asset forfeitures didn't result in a more significant change in direction

grave brook
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like what

jagged birch
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Honestly I expected a political evaluation that reframed Ukraine and its objective interests to Russia on politics and a stronger movement to try and engage foreign oversight in Ukraine to address Russia's grievances with far right organizations if for no other reason than to save face so that things could become more stable without the federation looking like it was shooting at the hip. Like...a week ago.

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Sure they can say they went in for XYZ but unless they're flat out lying and using these lies as a front, they have other options to resolve the issue and it's hard to ignore now in the face of what has happened - If they truly wanted to and had a case to make

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The important thing now though would be to avoid the whataboutism that would end up following any effort to resolve these disputes.

grave brook
jagged birch
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Assuming the original reason for going in was legitimate, that Russia had a good faith reason to attack because of Ukrainian far right extremists supported by the government bombing russian separatists in Ukraine - I think that is something worth going to the international community about for an intervention before even considering an invasion.

grave brook
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noone gives a fuck

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we talked about it like several days ago, didnt we

glass wyvern
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Yeah I mentioned it

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That Russia should have gone to UN with it and asked for investigation rather than full scale invasion

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IMO at least

grave brook
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yep

jagged birch
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I don't disagree it was happening, but Russia frames it as some rogue far right organization with only ethnic cleansing in mind, but didn't provide real evidence and then just said it was happening expecting people to agree, while Ukraine was saying nope the whole time, even consolidating their argument by conscripting these far right organizations into their military

grave brook
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we talked about it and came to the conclusion that international institutes wouldnt move a finger if smth goes against certain country's interests

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Quod licet Jovi, non licet bovi

glass wyvern
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I still think it should have been brought up properly and the situation objectified for what it was rather than spending the next 6 years planning an invasion that has been grossly miscalculated by the military, well; if it has or hasn’t remains to actually be seen but I certainly believe it’s been grossly miscalculated based on losses and duration etc.

grave brook
jagged birch
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Makes sense.

grave brook
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the real reason all this happened is quite simple

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being afraid of nato under russian borders

jagged birch
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I'd be worried that using nazi in this particular conflict though muddles the objective and blinds everyone to the evils people may commit upon one another

glass wyvern
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Reports today are suggesting that progress is being made with peace talks. I would like this to be true but I am sceptical at present I have to confess

grave brook
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ua side reports that "denazification" is out of the question now

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but the main negotiation problem would be crimea i think

jagged birch
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I heard on the news yesterday of criminal trials being arranged for refugees who were committing criminal offenses against other desperate refugees for the promise of rescue from Ukraine.

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Rape, assault, etc

glass wyvern
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Yes I think UA would consider that should be UA territory. However, there was discussion about them maybe conceding it

grave brook
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yep maradeurs and such ppl always come up at such times

glass wyvern
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Yes sadly this has been the case, some children have been snatched into human trafficking rings also I have heard

jagged birch
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I hope Russia doesn't have to open its stock trade before peace can be established.

grave brook
glass wyvern
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I would expect sanctions would remain until Putin was maybe out of power. But that’s just speculation on my part

jagged birch
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I don't know. Putin has a majority support until he's dead...no doubt.

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One thing he locked down was the nationalist movement in Russia

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Pride powers the party

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and it's not going to break easy

glass wyvern
jagged birch
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Once the invasion ends, I see absolutely no limit to resources Ukraine can pull together for rebuilding

glass wyvern
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My point here, Mumbles, is more about trials for war crimes etc

grave brook
glass wyvern
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Maybe

jagged birch
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They're talking to Israel too now.

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The loss of life is going to be felt for generations

glass wyvern
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I believe Russia should also pay some reparation but then Russia isn’t going to be in a position to afford that immediately

jagged birch
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That can't be rebuilt...So trust is so fragile

brittle nymph
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Very much doubt the EU will help rebuild the infrastructure out of the goodness of their hearts. It it means investments, maybe. Otherwise, probably not.

jagged birch
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I suspect the EU would want to draw Ukraine into their energy grid on a more official basis, now that Ukraine is essentially part of them

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In more than spirit and shared trade

glass wyvern
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The trouble with EU money helping there will be that Putin may see it as EU “buying” UA, and then causes the friction again as he doesn’t want them to be in NATO or EU or whatever else he’s against

jagged birch
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Finland finished their nuclear plant a couple days ago and its online now.

grave brook
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Kiev is trying to persuade the World Bank (or whatever org in charge) to give Russian arrested money to Ukraine

glass wyvern
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But this is going to be another major hurdle for the peace talks I think.

jagged birch
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I don't see that happening, honestly

glass wyvern
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I don’t think they will succeed in that

grave brook
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i can totally see it

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well im biased by shitton of reports of such kind on a personal and business level

glass wyvern
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I don’t know, I think that would be too inflammatory a move and would escalate the situation back up if it was calmer by that point

jagged birch
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The World Bank has no vested interest in giving Ukraine money taken from Russia.

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They can just as easily give Ukraine a loan with no interest of the same amount

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World Bank is apolitical

glass wyvern
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Yeah honest, Lum1nus, I can’t see them doing it. I think this might be a little trickle of the anti-west sentiment you’re made to swallow (no offence meant). If it did happen I will be very very surprised

grave brook
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but i hope that wont happen

jagged birch
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They will see what Russia is facing in the near future and see no political advantage

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Can't get blood from a stone

glass wyvern
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One thing I really hope is that you guys get back a better selection of news outlets and free speech over there in RF

jagged birch
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There is no profit or stability in the collapse of the federation

glass wyvern
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To have such restrictions these days shouldn’t be happening

grave brook
jagged birch
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No there isn't.

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There is a lot more profit for the US if the federation rebounds. US has huge investments in Russian oil.

glass wyvern
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It would jeopardise world food markets and energy markets too much if RF collapsed

jagged birch
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In trillions

grave brook
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US doesnt want Russia or China to get economically strong and influencial enough as US is, because then the world will stop being US-centered

glass wyvern
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Anyway guys, I fear we might be drifting off of the main subject here and we risk being told to be quiet and get back on point lol

jagged birch
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China has a stronger economy in terms of resilience than any nation on earth. US has benefited by investments in China ten times over.

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China wouldn't have its strength without those investments.

grave brook
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resilience - sure. world influence - not that much

jagged birch
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Influence is subjective.

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and vague

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I buy more chinese products than I do American by a landslide.

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The issue is stability

grave brook
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for example, being able to initiate the same world reaction on bombing iraq as it is now on

verbal shadow
glass wyvern
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Thanks, @verbal shadow

grave brook
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all the international stuff comes down to the conflicts of interests, and the interests of the strongest (read: economically and culturally influencial) prevail

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it is the reason why US and its allies get away with what Russia is being strangled for

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and the best interest of US is to keep it that way
they negotiate when its more profittable option
they dictate their will when its more profittable option

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ofc they dont want Russia or China destroyed, but kept on a leash - sure thing

jagged birch
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Sure. When you boil the all individual interests argument down to their base elements, eventually they fall on its own sword, though. It's easy to claim might is right when that's all we know, but then when it fails as it always does, to secure its rights, we end up changing the idiom to something more palatable, like power breeds revolution

grave brook
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yet "might is right" fits very well to what im wintessing in the world for the last 20 years

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even through my highly-censored window

brittle nymph
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Russia cannot compare, economically or influence wise to the other two. They're not a top dog in any sense of the word. This invasion has shown them to be anything but sane, and perhaps one of the most incompetent military invasions ever. From the media surrounding it, the blatant lies and false takes, to the fact that they've failed to take anything noteworthy in a country that was reported to have a 'decrepit' military.

As for China, yes. It is a battle of influence between the US and them, as it ultimately should be. For all the crap we give the US, you're not going to be silently arrested and murdered for speaking out about your government. Going forward these sorts of sanctions should be the way forward for any unnecessary invasions.

jagged birch
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During the cold war, it was said the only thing that could destroy America was America itself. To force the system to eat itself...but this failed fundamentally to acknowledge what made America powerful. That policy of democracy.

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The very design of a system built to change

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To adapt.

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For better or worse

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Can not get a system to eat itself if it changes its tastes every four years.

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Not that I'm saying it should be tried, but Russia could learn a lot about gaining integrity and strength within, taking notes on the fundamentals of democracy

brittle nymph
grave brook
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yep

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that is all correct

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thats why i say that its good old might is right

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Quod licet Iovi (Jovi), non licet bovi

brittle nymph
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There is Russian oil, and Russian gas, aside from that there's little pressure.

glass wyvern
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I think we do need Russia though. Even with fossil fuels being phased out there is still the aspect of massive grain exports that the world needs

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Perhaps the western worlds don’t rely so much on that but a large portion of developing Africa etc do

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Together with Ukraine, Russia and Ukraine export around 1/5th of the cereals consumed on earth

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Maybe more in fact (not currently of course but prior to the war)

grave brook
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still nowhere near to compete with US or China tho

glass wyvern
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But alas I’ve been dragged into politics lol

jagged birch
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Personally, I don't need Russia. I want Russia. A nation that can take the hits it did to help the allies in WW2 and defeat invasions all over europe and asia is one of a special kind of integrity. But then, I'm into multiculturalism so...I'm of the mind -the more the merrier-

glass wyvern
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I’ll be back in my corner

brittle nymph
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They have a large export, but they aren't necessarily needed as in those markets can adapt.

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The oil and gas.. Well, probably for the best.

glass wyvern
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As an ex farmer I beg to differ with regards to the speed as to which you may see this adaptation happening

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Arable land doesn’t just appear. It needs time to be rotated and worked properly

jagged birch
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Russia has one of the largest, if not the largest potato aggro production on earth

glass wyvern
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But I reiterate my point about me discussing a forbidden subject (even if it is with yourself, BaRKy) so I’ll refrain for respect of the rules

jagged birch
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Canada is getting pressure from allies to up production on wheat, potato, etc to offset the losses from Russia

brittle nymph
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As an ex farmer in Africa I can tell you that much of the land in most of Southern Africa is either not being used, or not being used efficiently. The land does not just appear, but markets can adapt. It doesn't necessarily mean they need to grow it themselves (as Africa has begun to do, slowly) but still.

To compare arable land in the rest of the world to Africa does it a disservice.

glass wyvern
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I think efficiency is the key the world over

jagged birch
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Curious. Wasn't snake island already taken?

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I saw a satellite shot of a troop carrier south of the island half an hour ago

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Might be setting up forward staging

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Capable of carrying vehicles no doubt

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450 ton cargo limit

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Set up launch capabilities south of odessa can cut off supply lines through the black sea

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Supply lines that some might use to get around needing to go through Poland or Germany

glass wyvern
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I’m not sure if it was taken actually. There was just the whole thing about the guards there saying what they did

jagged birch
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I heard that Ukraine destroyed that ship

glass wyvern
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Did they then land on the island and set up camp?

jagged birch
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Those 13 sailors that were on the island during that incident were captured.

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Or national guard w/e

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Heard nothing of them being harmed, or of the island being occupied by any significant force.

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Maybe recon

glass wyvern
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I heard a few days after the incident that they were believed to still be alive

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There was a lot of speculation that they had been killed after that confrontation

jagged birch
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Has anyone been taking tabs on the vehicles confiscated by the Ukrainians that Russia had abandoned over this invasion? I'm at over a billion in equipment losses

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Thats just the stuff that made the news

glass wyvern
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I have not

jagged birch
glass wyvern
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To be honest I’m not sure how accurate a lot of the stuff is

jagged birch
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Fortunately the bridgelayer looks to be one of the cheaper vehicles coming in at about $1.2million

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I imagine they get discounts being manufactured in Russia

glass wyvern
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Depends on the methods of contracting I guess. Might be made at time and materials cost without VAT etc through government contracts. I mean a company needs to have some profit but maybe it’s done through inversement structure rather than direct profit

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I mean I have to actual clue how they work internally, just spit-balling

glass wyvern
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Power has been restored to Chernobyl according to latest reports

jagged birch
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Yikes. See the gas masks being handed out to Russian troops? They are soviet era masks. Anyone familiar with the original soviet design for these masks would know these things have lead and asbestos in them.

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Either they don't care about their own troops dying, they're grossly under stocked in PPE or they're faking the need to put on a show.

glass wyvern
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I really hope they aren’t going to be using chemical weapons or biological weapons of any variety. It had best just be for show and nothing else

quiet oyster
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This keeps getting wilder by the day, insane.

glass wyvern
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Also perhaps possible that they were handed them in case gas was used to ward them off maybe

marble relic
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Pretty sure soviet era masks ain't filtering out shit

glass wyvern
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But still, I’d have considered they’d have newer version than the old ones from the 70s

sleek river
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Apparently Instagram got blocked in Russia?

jagged birch
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Yes as it is tied to facebook

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Policy changes

quiet oyster
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Policy change was Meta being categorised as an extremist organisation in Russia.

jagged birch
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If you're struggling with depression doomscrolling with all of this chaos as it relates to these events, here's a tip from a military professional.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmEgl6TfX74

YouTube
Beau of the Fifth Column
Let's talk about staying positive through this and letting it go....

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▶ Play video
grave brook
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actually categorizing so would create a lot of unnecessary legal pain in the ass about how to treat users of Insta and FB, and noone wants to deal with it

dawn quartz
jagged birch
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They're not wrong, but it might be too late.

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Leads me to believe Russia is only in this now to try and save face.

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Pride comes before a fall.

deep saddle
verbal shadow
deep saddle
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I am concerned about Putin's mental state with all this, and if any increasingly reckless or desperate decisions on his part could escalate suffering of both his own people and citizens of Ukraine.

verbal shadow
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Upcoming Change PSA
As I mentioned above (see top pin), this thread will be archived soon as we move the discussion over to a separate channel.

The new Serious channel will be age restricted with a 15 second Slowmode Cooldown, and role locked, similar to our server's old Serious channel. It will however carry over the rules that this thread already has...

Rules
• No memes.
• No spamming of any kind.
• No political, religious or inflammatory debates allowed.
• No prejudice towards any group of people.
• No uncivil or toxic commentary.

* Also, as with our old Serious channel, there will be a Revoked role that removes access to the channel for anyone who breaks the channel's rules and/or who wishes to be blocked from topic matters that may be triggering.

If anyone has any questions or concerns, please reply to this message, ping me or DM me. Thank you.

winter zealot
verbal shadow
winter zealot
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I see

verbal shadow
quiet oyster
marble relic
quiet oyster
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I appreciate your commitment to this btw.

jagged birch
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Georgia's own president is being blocked from doing things by the Georgian government. How fucked up is that.

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Georgian President, vocal about Russia's war in Ukraine, just said the government denied her permission to hold official visits in European capitals and she was forced to covert official visits to private meetings

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Looks like India is going to buy discount Russian crude

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I can't blame them given their horrid energy infrastructure

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Though I pitty the fool

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That's going to draw the ire of so many nations trying to stop this war by putting the screws to Russian finance, forcing countries to put the screws to India, too

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To make finance so painful in India that buying crude from Russia isn't worth it.

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Already countries that want to go after India over aid that they absolutely should continue (pharma)

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I suspect that because of how cheap these discounts will be, a measured response might be necessary that make the exchange worthless economically, but not necessarily warrant any painful sanctions against India. Possibly tariffs on Indian exports equal to the savings they'd otherwise get buying discount products from a nation at war.

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Though who knows. It would require a world that's willing to cut the silk road.

jagged birch
oak gull
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ohh it's a thread
TIL

verbal shadow
# oak gull ohh it's a thread TIL

yeah, it initially seemed like a good idea, till it wasn't lol did it mostly out of urgent necessity to move folks away from off-topic when the topic came up

oak gull
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understood