History Lessons📚

[pale knot]

A place to discuss all historical facts or events... <@&590975379678953522> <@&233312840486748160>

@thin geyser Since you offer a lot of insight about historical facts, we've added a dedicated thread #1143857526132199495, so you don't get as many distracting interruptions with general chat from #off-topic-bond-james-bond. Members can opt in by typing in it, or you/anyone can ping individuals to subscribe them to the thread. We can always rename the thread if the one Gleam and I decided on for now is not to your liking...
Src: #off-topic-bond-james-bond message

[lunar lily]

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Last Updated: 10:42am 23-Aug-2023 UTC by redhottrouble

[toxic nimbus]

new space for @thin geyser and his history facts ❤️

[keen arrow]

[toxic nimbus]

[austere nest]

[wintry bramble]

[normal linden]

This is very cool

[worn gulch]

Yo!

[thin geyser]

😮

WOO

I’ll figure out something to talk about here!

[normal linden]

[thin geyser]

I should talk about Joshua Chamberlain and the 20th Maine here

man was badass

[thin geyser]

Oh wait

I should post some of the letters I have from James H. Winter

probably some of the sweetest letters I've ever read from anyone

He served aboard two warships during WWII, USS New York and USS Pasadena

While aboard USS Pasadena he saw action in the pacific at both Iwo Jima and Okinawa

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLXzaBtFBig&ab_channel=hungrymongo

This footage was taken exactly 1 week after one of the letters was written

in the footage you can see USS Pasadena under attack from a Japanese kamikaze pilot who misses the ship and lands behind them

This is the last page of that letter

On it he writes to his wife Pearl

My work goes on as usual - no better surely, but no worse either, and I have plenty of pictures of you on my desk, and they help a good deal. And maybe, before too awfully much longer, I can quit work each day at a decent hour and come home to my Beloved - and each step homeward each evening will be exciting and wonderful; each kiss will be as new and fresh as if it were our first; and each moment we're together will be a lifetime of happiness in itself -

Goodnight, Dear Heart - my wife! -

Always

Jim

This photo was taken the following month

USS Pasadena is seen in the foreground

alongside the US Aircraft Carrier USS Bunker Hill

[worn gulch]

It looks like it was hit in a magazine.

[thin geyser]

It was hit by a Kamikaze pilot, idk where exactly

I have a whole collection of letters from James Winter, not all of them sadly as some of them were bought by other people but

I have his letters from his time at the US Naval Reserves Academy

letters from his time aboard USS New York in the reserves (Including one on USS New York's official letterhead)

and letters from his combat service on USS Pasadena

After the war

Winter went on to become a horn teacher at Fresno State University (now part of the University of California system)

He actually became incredibly popular, and even wrote a book or two on the subject

And today he's known far more for that than anything he ever did during WWII

https://www.hornsociety.org/home/ihs-news/70-james-winter-1919-2006

He and his wife Pearl were married for 48 years until she passed away in 1990

He passed away in 2006 at the age of 87

Today Fresno State University has a scholarship in his name, the James H. Winter Brass Scholarship

https://fresnostate.academicworks.com/opportunities/25369

[pale knot]

Look singularity2030 @distant smelt speaking of cursive writing

[thin geyser]

if old writing is your thing, somewhere in a box I have a letter written in 1827

from a semi important American politician to his future wife

sadly the ink is fading really badly on it due to well... age

[keen arrow]

👀

[pale knot]

Ooh i wanna see

[thin geyser]

I'll see if I can find it

I have a lot of examples of old handwriting

let me see if I can send some rn

[keen arrow]

ma’am did you pull a Mythos again

[pale knot]

[thin geyser]

A good example of something I love finding

[distant smelt]

Lmao

[pale knot]

Omg again! @distant smelt

[thin geyser]

bought a school book and I found some kids homework from 90 years ago

[distant smelt]

@keen arrow check it

[distant smelt]

Oh you saw

Lmao

[keen arrow]

That poor user 😂

[distant smelt]

Here comes the yeet

[thin geyser]

Some beautiful autographs

[thin geyser]

These came from an 1867 Autograph Book

[pale knot]

omg 🤩 that's so beautiful

[thin geyser]

as far as I could see from researching a few of these individuals, they were actually kids at the time

So it was likely a high school autograph book

They were between the ages of 16 - 20 if I remember correctly

For example

Charlie A. Sinclair over there

was 19 in 1867

He would grow up to become a relatively interesting businessman and politician

Interesting one here

I know I've mentioned him before but

the signature and writing of Civil War veteran John Northwood when he was Commander of the Department of Michigan for the Grand Army of the Republic

He lost his right hand in the Battle of Gaines Mill in 1862 so he had to learn how to write left handed

although to be fair he had 24 years between the battle and that book to figure it out so

[pale knot]

i bet @sand mauve would appreciate this bit of the story

[thin geyser]

oh and I have one signature from someone who's actually famous

[sand mauve]

Sympathize, certainly.

[thin geyser]

Signature of George M. Cohan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_M._Cohan

He's most famous for writing "You're a Grand Old Flag", "Yankee Doodle Boy" and "Over There"

Three popular early 20th century patriotic tunes still played to this day

The signature is on a 1937 luncheon menu aboard the Cunard liner RMS Berengaria

I also have the invitiation to that luncheon that was delivered to the cabin of the person who got the menu signed

[errant talon]

that is very cool

[thin geyser]

Some sad news from Greece

Apparently rampant wildfires in the country have caused damage to a UNESCO world heritage monastery

The Monestary is known as Hosio Loukas and was built by the Byzantine Empire as early as the 10th Century CE

It's famous for its well preserved Byzantine mosaic work which thankfully as far as I have read have not been damaged in the fires

However the fire has completely gutted one of the side buildings, which is among the oldest on the site

[errant talon]

That sucks.

[toxic nimbus]

oh no. 😢

[thin geyser]

time for more history

more boats

[worn gulch]

Boats!

[thin geyser]

lets talk about one of @inland vessel 's favorite ships this time

The story of the legend of two World Wars, RMS Aquitania

After Cunard finished Mauretania and Lusitania in 1907, a third ship to make a trio was ordered in 1910

Aquitania officially launched in 1913, and started her maiden voyage in 1914

This photo was taken upon her arrival in NYC after completing her maiden voyage

However she didn't make many crossings before the start of the First World War

During the war, she served two different roles

Once as a Hospital Ship

and as a troop ship in Dazzle Paint

Here she is alongside Olympic in the early years of the war

Olympic was still showing her merchant marine colors and hadn't been painted into her troop ship dazzle paint colors yet

After the end of the war, Aquitania's original bridge which was completely covered was deemed too low, and a second bridge was built on top of the original

[inland vessel]

Not one of my favorites per se.

But has a very interesting history.

[thin geyser]

I thought you liked Aquitania

[inland vessel]

SS Normandie though?

[thin geyser]

I'll get to Normandie one day

[inland vessel]

Holy fuck.

[thin geyser]

Here she is in the post war alongside Olympic

[inland vessel]

I had to try to spell that word like

Twelve times.

Olympic > Titanic.

Yep, I said it.

[thin geyser]

She also makes an apperance in this amazing photograph (closest to the camera)

Behind her is Berengaria

and on the left side of the photo there's the White Star Liner Homeric in the front, and Olympic behind her

[inland vessel]

History lessons?

Wait, how long has this channel been here?

[thin geyser]

idk, they made it so I wouldn't drown off topic in history stuff

[inland vessel]

Damn.

[thin geyser]

anyway

[inland vessel]

I know where I'll be from now on.

[thin geyser]

Another cool postwar photo

alongside Majestic and Olympic

[inland vessel]

You see OD is making a game?

[thin geyser]

nope

anyway continuing with Aquitania

[inland vessel]

Yeah, it's Called Oceanliner Designs Grand Voyage.

[thin geyser]

😮

[inland vessel]

It's essentially Titanic HG but for like.... everything.

[thin geyser]

wait Oceanliner Designs?

[inland vessel]

Yeah.

He's making a video game.

Or...simulator I guess.

He did a live stream showing it off, it's....it looks damn good dude.

Like he used uh...what ship was it he used...uhm

Fuck.

[thin geyser]

by Mike Brady?

that Oceanliner Designs?

[inland vessel]

Mhmm.

The very same

[thin geyser]

huh funny, I sorta know him

[inland vessel]

I've spoken to him a few times.

[keen arrow]

[thin geyser]

met him through a mutual friend on discord

[inland vessel]

Dude is fantastic.

[thin geyser]

He honestly is

HI WORMY

[keen arrow]

Heyyyy

[inland vessel]

He's really BLOWN UP the kast couple of years.

[thin geyser]

Im about to talk about Aquitania's WWII career

[inland vessel]

He just kinda....showed up one day?

[keen arrow]

Ooh

[thin geyser]

Anyway

Aquitania was due to be scrapped in 1939

[inland vessel]

EMPRESS OF IRELAND.

That's it.

[thin geyser]

But then german mustache man did that thing to Poland and Britain ended up at war

so they cancelled the scrapping order

Aquitania was painted gray in accordance with troop ship colors of WWII

[inland vessel]

"hey so, y'know that ship you were gonna scrap? Yeah...about that"

[thin geyser]

becoming the only major liner to serve in both World Wars

[inland vessel]

Now hold on.

[thin geyser]

Here she is alongside Queen Mary

[inland vessel]

Are you certain?

I could of sworn there was another one.

[thin geyser]

I did say major

[inland vessel]

I know.

I swear there was another one.

[thin geyser]

there may have been a few smaller vessels but no other large liner served in both

[inland vessel]

Damn, maybe I've gotten dementia.

[thin geyser]

Cunard and White Star purged most of their older vessels in the mid 1930's

[inland vessel]

Well, automod didn't like that word.

Fair enough....

[thin geyser]

White Star's Majestic served a little longer until 1938 as HMS Caledonia

anyway

[inland vessel]

If they only knew what they had created....

[thin geyser]

After the war, Aquitania continued to serve briefly

but by 1948, she was badly deteriorated

[inland vessel]

Those funnels man....

[thin geyser]

according to a story

[inland vessel]

I don't doubt it, honesty.

[thin geyser]

a piano fell through the rotted deck, crashing into the dining saloon

[inland vessel]

Two world wars, passenger service.

[thin geyser]

Among one of the last photos taken of her

[inland vessel]

I've only been through one war and I already feel old.

This looks like a painting.

[thin geyser]

its a photo, its just colorized

[inland vessel]

Not a very good colorization...

[thin geyser]

This gif is from a film taken of her final voyage

in 1950

[inland vessel]

But you can see the rust.

I mean, rust is one thing.

But that is like, paint peeling off kind of rust.

That would give even the U.S Navy a run for it's money.

[thin geyser]

there are several surviving photos of her scrapping

[inland vessel]

We have some rusty ass ships that come back from cruises.

[thin geyser]

yea her hull was pretty bad by 1950

[inland vessel]

sigh, if only these ships existed today.

[thin geyser]

and now, for some stuff

[inland vessel]

Could you imagine the choices these companies might have made if they knew what impact these ships could of made if they survived?

There is very very very very few surviving ocean liners.

[inland vessel]

One in active service.

[thin geyser]

Original Aquitania postcard from 1927

[inland vessel]

It was two, but now it's only one.

[inland vessel]

Stockholm was removed from service a while back.

[thin geyser]

and a log card

[inland vessel]

Whatever dumbass name they ended up giving it I don't remember.

[thin geyser]

for a 1931 voyage

[thin geyser]

Astoria

[inland vessel]

Yep, that one.

Poor Andrea Doria.

[thin geyser]

other items I have from Aquitania, I have a passenger list from a 1925 voyage, and a menu somewhere

[inland vessel]

Does the food come with the menu?

I want some hundred year old ocean liner food.

Delicious.

[thin geyser]

whats your favorite ocean liner btw

[inland vessel]

finally some good fucking food

I don't have a singular favorite m

[thin geyser]

favorites?

[inland vessel]

SS United States, SS Normandie, RMS Olympic, RMS Queen Mary.

That's a good start.

[worn gulch]

The stuff max miller made for his titanic series was hella good.

[inland vessel]

Speaking of, Titanic doesn't make the cut.

As cool as it is, it just wasn't as great as people make it out to be.

[thin geyser]

Ive got something cool to show you then

[inland vessel]

Whilhem De Grosse is probably on the list though.

That thing was ornate as it gets.

[thin geyser]

From my collection

a kosher milk pitcher off Queen Mary

[inland vessel]

Germans had their issues, but the very few ocean liners they did make, God damn we're they gorgeous.

[worn gulch]

YOOOO

[inland vessel]

Ah, neat.

What year?

[thin geyser]

1936

[inland vessel]

Looks to be 50s?

[thin geyser]

Maiden Voyage year

[inland vessel]

Oh, really,m

Huh.

[thin geyser]

Yea thats what the silver hallmark says

under Cunard White Star's logo

[worn gulch]

AS SOON AS I SAW THE HEBREW I ALMOST JUMPED IN SURPRISE!

[inland vessel]

Oh, I didn't look lol.

Queen Mary was very Jewish accepting.

Or...bad word.

Accommodating.

They even have a sina...

Uh...church for Jews.

Sorry I don't know how to spell it.

[worn gulch]

Synagogue.

[thin geyser]

yea they had whole sets of kosher utensils and other things for Jewish passengers

[inland vessel]

That.

They even had a kitchen specifically for Jewish food.

[thin geyser]

That milk pitcher being one of them

[inland vessel]

Queen Mary was one hell of a ship.

Churchill reportedly said it shortened the war by a year.

[worn gulch]

Orthodox food restrictions are strict, thus the sets of utensils.

[inland vessel]

Did he actually say it? No idea, but it wouldn't surprise me.

[thin geyser]

he did

[inland vessel]

I imagine he did.

[thin geyser]

although he specifically said Queen Mary, Queen Elizabeth, and Aquitania

[inland vessel]

Never looked into it's accuracy

Hm.

Eh.

Still holds the record for most passengers at a time.

[thin geyser]

I've been down to Queen Mary once, but

I wanna go back

and bring my collection with me

[inland vessel]

Blue Ribband belongs to the SS United States though.

[thin geyser]

it'd be a thrill to see those artifacts back aboard Queen Mary

speaking of Big U

[inland vessel]

Which is still rusting away...

Now THAT should be a museum ship.

It's getting scrapped for sure though eventually.

They aren't saving it

[thin geyser]

This was a gift from a friend

a wall hook from one of SS United States' cabins

[inland vessel]

That ship was very interesting.

Flame retardant.

Prepping for a war that never came. For once.

[thin geyser]

I mean, they looked at Normandie burning and all went

yea, lets make sure that doesnt happen again

[inland vessel]

Gibbs was one hell of a designer, that's for sure.

He was a control freak.

But it paid off in his work.

Normandie was such a sad loss.

For the war, and otherwise.

[thin geyser]

Aquitania menu btw

[inland vessel]

Where's my old food?

[thin geyser]

somewhere in my collection I have a Normandie menu

[inland vessel]

I would have loved to collect old things like this, just don't have the time.

Or the money probably.

[thin geyser]

a fun picture

White Star Line, Cunard Line, and Cunard White Star

[inland vessel]

You would make a great YouTuber y'know that?

[thin geyser]

the White Star Line one is from Jan 1913

believe it or not, not the first time I've heard that

[inland vessel]

Oh no, I believe it.

Mike Brady V2.

Though that would imply you are better then he is, which isn't very nice.

[thin geyser]

nah I'd never come close to being Mike Brady lol

[inland vessel]

Very few do.

If any.

I'd like to play his little game.

[thin geyser]

same

[inland vessel]

Looks real interesting.

[thin geyser]

I've been waiting so long for a proper ocean liner game

[inland vessel]

He's got the Impression of Ireland and Lakonia so far.

They are working on the R101 Airship, all three of which will be present on launch in 2024.

You can do dockside, at sea, drydock, control the weather, it's all really neat.

Unreal Engine 5 I think, too.

[thin geyser]

tbh, a strange trio to start with

but I'm excited to see where it goes

[inland vessel]

I get why.

Makes sense.

But I watch him pretty regularly, dunno if you do.

[keen coyote]

This channel is the best to cure doomscrolling

[sand mauve]

My contribution: Someone else's video.
https://youtu.be/QQuzPufx_IE?si=HbNNJft9jLFENjjh

[thin geyser]

ok before I watch that

is it worse than the Emu War

[sand mauve]

Not worse, but equally as stupid.

[thin geyser]

who wants to see some really neat stuff from a museum in Washington DC that I consider very underrated

[worn gulch]

Me!

[pale knot]

[thin geyser]

Aight

so these are some highlights from the National Postal Museum

[worn gulch]

Philatelic phuntimes!

[thin geyser]

first thing yall may notice about this letter

are the burn marks

[worn gulch]

The surname looks Dutch.

Schoonbrod.

[thin geyser]

This letter was aboard the Hindenburg

when it exploded

[errant talon]

Dang.

[worn gulch]

Wow!

[thin geyser]

which I mean, looking at the disaster

It's a miracle a piece of paper survived that

[errant talon]

Yeah lol.

[thin geyser]

A few pieces of mail are known to have survived, but obviously not many did

because fire

[worn gulch]

Who will win? One gigantic hydrogen-fuelled fireball or one papery boi?

[errant talon]

fire burn

[thin geyser]

next item

This beautiful pocket watch belonged to an individual named John Starr

[errant talon]

Holy.

I know those are expensive.

[thin geyser]

Oh but that one is more expensive than you could imagine

John Starr was one of the postal clerks aboard the Titanic

The watch was found on his body after it was recovered in the aftermath of the sinking

[errant talon]

Wow

[worn gulch]

The name “Elgin” makes me think of barbecue. There’s a lil town of that name on I-35 in Texas.

[errant talon]

That’s a crazy item.

[thin geyser]

A painting based on a photo of the man

[worn gulch]

I’m impressed that it’s in good condition regarding stuff like pressure and whatnot.

[thin geyser]

well dont forget, it never went down with the ship

He had it on his person, in his pocket

[worn gulch]

Ohhhh…

[thin geyser]

when he jumped into the water

and in the coming days, his body was found floating in the sea, with the watch still in the pocket

[worn gulch]

Lemme guess, temperature shock and hypothermia?

[thin geyser]

yep

Keeping on the Titanic theme

[worn gulch]

Alcohol helps with the former, at least.

[thin geyser]

A set of Titanic's postal keys

as you can see, found on the body of postal clerk Oscar Woody

Side note

going back to the watch for a moment

One incredible detail to notice about it, is the time

The hands are frozen at about 1:25 - 1:30 AM

Which is right around when Titanic began her final plunge into the sea

[worn gulch]

Looks like 5:05-ish to me. It’s the short hand that does hours, right?

[thin geyser]

no the short hand is the one pointed between 1 and 2

the long hand is snapped in half

[worn gulch]

Oh.

[thin geyser]

Pocket watch long hands reach to the outer rim, so the one surviving isnt the long hand

[worn gulch]

I see!

[thin geyser]

although due to time zones, the time was probably closer to 2:25 - 2:30

[pale knot]

I love pocket watches

[worn gulch]

They’re neat.

[errant talon]

Elgin pocket watches are dang expensive, that one is like priceless tbh.

[thin geyser]

oh absolutely

[pale knot]

Ooh these are so neat too!

[thin geyser]

final item off the Titanic

Original letter on official Titanic letterhead, written the day of Titanic's departure from Southampton

[errant talon]

Can’t read a single word

Lol.

A few words

That was on the Titanic?

I need to sleep.

[thin geyser]

yes it was

[errant talon]

That is in surprisingly good condition

[worn gulch]

What was the thing in Latin?

[thin geyser]

I mean it was sent from the ship, so it likely wasnt on board when Titanic san

sank

Ill get to that

[pale knot]

I got up to... "I'm sorry that I neglected to send you a..." and yeah, the rest is harder to read

[errant talon]

Ah, makes sense now

[thin geyser]

As for this letter

This was a letter sent across the Silk Road, dating to around 1390

[toxic nimbus]

woah that is so perfectly preserved

[thin geyser]

Who wants to talk about Trinity

[worn gulch]

Me!

[thin geyser]

https://tenor.com/view/trinity-bomb-nuclear-weapon-oppenheimer-los-alamos-atom-bomb-gif-16272589027919557028

I was sharing a few things in off topic but theres still so much more to show

[worn gulch]

Like, los alamos- that* trinity!

[thin geyser]

yea the Atomic Bomb

a few years ago I visited New Mexico

went to Los Alamos, and saw the museums in the state related to the Atomic Bomb

and there are some... things in there

This one I just shared in off topic but

the camera that took that footage above

the following artifacts are from the National Museum of Nuclear Science and History

This is a collection of mostly original artifacts that were used to develop the Atomic Bomb at Los Alamos

it should be noted that their configuration does not reflect how they were set up at Los Alamos, rather its just a display

to show the items off

For anyone who has seen Oppenheimer

you will recognize this flag

This is the flag that flew over Trinity Base Camp, as seen in this photograph

and technically the one seen in this scene from Oppenheimer (its from the trailer so not spoilers)

This car carried the core of the Gadget down to the Trinity Test Site

It sat in a small box in the back seat

a likely replica of the box in the back seat

oh and

on this topic

something I saw in Virginia a few years ago

The original Enola Gay

[thin geyser]

Actual Civil War photograph, that is all

[worn gulch]

Cool.

[thin geyser]

WHO WANTS TO SEE MY SUGAR LAND COLLECTION

[worn gulch]

Me!

[thin geyser]

First up a rare photo postcard from Sugar Land

dated Janurary 22nd 1909

Of the original Imperial Sugar Factory

Which dates back to the 19th Century

The current day one wouldn't be built for another 20 years or so

Only a handful of these original photographs exist of the first Imperial Sugar Factory

Second, the rarest of all the cookbooks put out by the Imperial Sugar Company

the original 2nd edition from 1920

This book is so rare, the Sugar Land Heritage Foundation doesn't even have an original copy of it

They have every other cookbook, but not this one

[worn gulch]

Send it to some archivists to scan it!

[thin geyser]

its actually been scanned

[worn gulch]

Cool!

[thin geyser]

Imperial Sugar has one in their archives

but to find an original copy is unbelivably rare

An original Imperial Sugar employee cap

Probably dating to the 1990's

Some other postcards

The one on the bottom right dates to the late 1920's

the one on the top right is of the Imperial State Prison and dates to 1912

On the topic of the state prison

I have this original photograph from the State Prison dated to 1913

From what I recall it was taken out of the scrapbook of one of the wardens

This obviously is a scan of the photo btw

Finally the rarest item

An actual box of sugar

This powdered sugar box dates to the 1920's, right when the modern factory first opened

as far as I know, this is the only one

from that era that has survived

[worn gulch]

It's probably a single sugar cube today.

[thin geyser]

Even the Sugar Land heritage Foundation doesnt have an original box, let alone an unopened one

[worn gulch]

A single giant sugar cube.

[thin geyser]

they have a reproduction box in their museum

I mean it does have starch added to prevent caking so

it doesnt feel like its solidified, it still feels like powder inside

[worn gulch]

Ah.

[thin geyser]

The real things next to the reproductions at the Sugar Land Heritage Foundation

[thin geyser]

hello to the 5 people who follow this thread lmfao

I'm thinking of doing a little talk on the Ambrose Lightship, which I recently visited in New York City

[keen arrow]

[pale knot]

ooh i missed this from before. love the old school labels so much

[thin geyser]

Alright y’all

So time for some photos

This is the Ambrose Lightship

She’s currently located at the South Street Seaport Museum in Manhattan

The primary purpose of the lightship was to act as a floating lighthouse in the Ambrose channel just outside of New York City

There were several other lightships in different locations such as the Nantucket, and Chesapeake lightships

Ambrose here was not the first ship to serve as a lightship in the channel but she was the first purpose built one

She began service in 1908

In her service as a lightship between 1908 and 1932 she had just about every famous early ocean liner pass her lights

She’s depicted here in this postcard alongside Titanic’s sister Olympic

And in this postcard with Mauretania

There’s even a single known photo of her alongside Olympic

From 1932 - 1966 she served the US Coast Guard as the previously independent group of light ships were absorbed by the coast guard

[rain kestrel]

I didn't know lightships were a thing but in retrospect it makes a lot of sense

Thanks for sharing, as always

[thin geyser]

Yea the Ambrose channel was very narrow so they needed floating lighthouses so ships didn’t run aground

During her coast guard years, Ambrose served different roles, meeting more ships

Here she is in a painting with the French liner Normandie

And in another

With SS United States

In 1967 she was finally retired from service

And the following year she was given to the South Street Seaport Museum for exhibition where she remains to this day

It's actually a slight misconception that the first thing immigrants saw upon entering the United States through New York was the Statue of Liberty, the truth is that the lights of the Ambrose Lightship were their first sign that they had made it to America

in fact we have letters surviving from such immigrants telling their loved ones at home that they had made it because they saw the lights of the Ambrose lightship

For countless immigrants, she was the real beacon of hope

Here she is in the rotunda of the US Customs House in New York City

and now for some photos taken by yours truly

I visited the Ambrose Lightship about a week ago, and I was sadly the only one on the tour

which also meant I essentially had the lightship to myself (aside from my family and the tour guide)

Ambrose's wheel

The original one from 1908

Ambrose's bell

which is ridiculously loud

it could be heard for 2 miles

I was given a demonstration and yea, its a LOUD bell

It's louder than it looks, lets just say that

Lifeboat and Davits, likely from her Coast Guard years

The steam whistle

very similar to those used on ships like Titanic

According to the guide

Ambrose will be going through a full restoration within the next year

to repaint her to her old Lightship colors, her current colors are from the Coast Guard

and included in the restoration will be an attempt to get the steam whistle working again

which would be absolutely incredible to see and hear

oh and a final thing

The ocean liner RMS Mauretania served from 1907 - 1935

meaning almost her entire career, she passed by the Ambrose lightship countless times

It aint the full ship but

a little piece of Mauretania reunites with the lightship she used to rely on

100 years apart

[austere nest]

Cool stuff!

[pale knot]

So pretty. That wood work looks amazing

[thin geyser]

Just an interesting little story for those who follow this thread

This is one of the light fixtures at the McSorley's Ale House

a tavern that has been operating in New York City since 1854

They've had many famous patrons over the years

From Abraham Lincoln to John Lennon

As for that light fixture

In 1917

as soldiers from New York were getting ready to go overseas to fight in the Great War

McSorley's offered them a turkey dinner before they were sent overseas

Each soldier got a wishbone, and they all decided to leave their wishbones on the light fixture

When they returned, they all returned to the tavern and took their wishbones home

The ones you see in the photo, are the men who didn't come back

McSorley's has kept them there for 106 years, to remember those men who died fighting in the war

Because each one is a life that was lost in the trenches

[sterile radish]

That's incredible!

[thin geyser]

I should do another history talk here

ooo I should share one of my favorite forms of artwork

Byzantine mosaics

Starting off, here's Christ Pantocrator

probably the most famous and recognizable Byzantine mosaic, found in the most famous of all Byzantine Churches (The Hagia Sophia)

It's honestly amazing how much detail they managed to get with just pieces of tile and stone

The remainder of the mosaic wall was heavily damaged during the Ottoman period

[worn gulch]

Wasn't there a wave of iconoclasm that happened round those parts?

[thin geyser]

Yes but that was much earlier than these

The first wave happened in the 8th Century and the second in the 9th Century

The most famous example of Byzantine Iconiclasm was the Hagia Irene, which had most of its imagery removed even to this day

as you can see, very plain inside

However despite the iconoclasm, Constantinople to this day features beautiful works of religious art

The Chora Church for example, features some of the best preserved Byzantine era frescos

[thin geyser]

who wants to see a random item from my collection

who am I kidding of course yall do

This is a small medallion made by the Daily Record, a newspaper in Glasgow to celebrate the launch of the Queen Mary in 1934

Note that the name "Queen Mary" does not appear anywhere on it, as the ship hadn't recieved its name yet

It was then only known as Hull 534

Some photos of the Queen Mary's construction

And her launch

The two on the obverse of the medallion are King George V and his wife and future namesake of the ship Queen Mary

both were in attendence at the launch of the ship

Where she officially recieved the name Queen Mary

[thin geyser]

hello hello

this is where I usually do like, talks and lessons on history

I usually share random items I collect in off topic but sometimes it gets a little out of hand lol

@willow eagle here

[willow eagle]

I'm here 🙏

[thin geyser]

just saw your message in off topic, if you ever need to tap out just let me know lol

[willow eagle]

Of course lol

[thin geyser]

you mentioned how much old books would cost earlier

and it turns out, a few of my books are actually very rare

bought them for cheap because the local bookstores couldnt find anything on them so they just sold them for cheap

The chief example of this

This magazine was printed in 1937 in Shanghai

by a British printer who had lived in China for 30 years up until this point

[willow eagle]

Oh my lord I'd be kicking myself in the ass if I later found out how rare they are

[thin geyser]

in August 1937, the Japanese invaded Shanghai starting a battle that would last until November

and during that, this printer worked in secret to print a few issues of this magazine detailing what was happening

especially because the Japanese were targeting print shops in their invasion

Today, according to WorldCat, only one other copy is known to exist in a public institution worldwide

at the Royal Military Library in the Netherlands

I tracked down one possible additional copy in the Imperial War Museum's Archives in the UK but theirs is not avaliable to the public

[willow eagle]

It's impressive that you even manage to track it down. Sometimes I can't even dedicate myself to go to the toilet ffs

[thin geyser]

WorldCat by the way is a service that searches through almost every public library and archive to help search for a book. It's used by archivists worldwide so its a good source for getting an idea of how rare a book is

I didn't even track it down, it was just sitting in the magazine pile at my local Half Price Books

for 7 dollars

I just felt like it was worth picking up, since it was about the Japanese invasion of China

[willow eagle]

But yeah I recently heard a lot about how Japan invaded China multiple times. Had no idea China had such a hard time with them

[thin geyser]

oh it was very tough for them, especially in the 1930's

The conflict between the two countries resulted in the death of 20 Million Chinese soldiers and civilians

18.9 Million of that 20 Million were in fact civilians

and thats just estimates

Some estimates place the death toll in China up to 50 Million

[willow eagle]

Yeah I was listening to a podcast where they mentioned all the human experiments, work camps and other inhuman things. It's mental...

[thin geyser]

China lost the second highest number of people in the war, only after the Soviet Union

[willow eagle]

Damn

[thin geyser]

The Soviet Union lost roughly 24 Million

[willow eagle]

How is it that they're now one of the most powerful countries?

It seems like they suffered a lot

[thin geyser]

China suffered more after the war

it wasnt until the 90's when things started to turn around

excluding World War II

another 15 or so Million people died in the Chinese Civil War which lasted until 1949

[willow eagle]

Not much for the people I suppose. From what I heard/read, ordinary people still struggle

[thin geyser]

many do

but many live regular fulfilling lives now

it depends on where you live

If you live near one of the cities, your life is pretty alright

considering cities make up a good chunk of the population, that's a lot of people who are living decent lives

however, a lot of China is also underdeveloped once you leave the cities

[willow eagle]

Yeah when I saw people straight up painting grass green so their nature doesn't look poisoned and dead, it literally hurt

Rural life must be tough

[thin geyser]

it is

speaking of deadly wars though, want to see the last major purchase I made

[willow eagle]

Of course

[thin geyser]

This is a Model 1860 Light Cavalry Sword

made for the Union Army during the American Civil War

the sword was manufactured by the Ames Manufacturing Company, the number one producer of swords for the Union in 1864

[willow eagle]

Whaaaat

[thin geyser]

By 1864, Cavalry Charges were largely a thing of the past but there were a few

And the Battle of the Wilderness

(sorry reuploading this with spoilers)

theyre paintings by the way, so nothing graphic I just want to be sure

[willow eagle]

We didn't learn much about American Civil War so this is very interesting

[thin geyser]

Are you from the United States?

im assuming not

[willow eagle]

No I'm from Czechia

[thin geyser]

Oh very interesting

[willow eagle]

We learned the basics ofc but we didn't really go in depth

[thin geyser]

yea over here in the US, the Civil War is sort of a big deal

It's considered the great divide in the history of the United States, the entire country changed

[willow eagle]

Yeah I bet it must have been a breaking point in a way

[thin geyser]

Even warfare itself changed

In 1861 when the war started

Soldiers were shooting each other in rows

Napoleonic War style

By 1865

Soldiers were digging trenches and doing charges like the ones seen in the First World War

[willow eagle]

I hate this so much. Everytime I'm reminded of all the wars that happened over history, I die inside a bit. It's crazy...

I mean it's interesting to learn about the past, but holy crap...

[willow eagle]

That's interesting

I thought trenches weren't a thing until WWI

[thin geyser]

Nope the American civil war saw the first use of trench warfare

And it was brutal

Fighting at Petersburg lasted something like 9 months

Fighting at the Battle of Hampton Roads also saw the first battle between two Ironclad warships

For Americans at least, the CIvil War was the event that ended the old world and ushered in the new

The growth in industry during the war allowed the United States to become an industrial powerhouse after the end of the war

which is why by the end of the century, the United States had become one of the top manufacturers in the world

[willow eagle]

Speaking of wars, one of my ancestors experienced Hitlers concentration camps. He passed long before I was born, but apparently he had some horrifying stories to tell. It made him a very cold person.

[thin geyser]

ah.

World War II was probably one of the cruelest wars

for all sides who were fighting the Axis powers

speaking of WWII

[willow eagle]

We're literally sandwiched between Austria, Germany and Poland so you can imagine how that went for us

[thin geyser]

yea, I've read about the German invasion

I do have a few American items from WWII

The largest of which is this

[willow eagle]

Oh wow

[thin geyser]

US Army Winter Coat dated 1943

This one actually saw combat

[willow eagle]

Where do you get all these? Auctions?

[thin geyser]

issued to a soldier of the 88th Infantry Division who fought in Northern Italy against the Germans

some of them online, some of them through antique stores

[willow eagle]

That's actually amazing

Just... wow

[thin geyser]

Photo example of soldiers wearing that type of coat

[willow eagle]

I'd say the uniforms were really nice looking if they weren't made to fight something so evil

[thin geyser]

yea

although

you wouldn't be alone

even then, the winter trench coat was considered something of a fashion statement

[willow eagle]

Have you ever put the coat on?

[thin geyser]

by WWII, trenchcoats had mostly become obseolete except when fighting in winter conditions

and no

its too small for me

But the funny thing is even during WWII

a lot of these coats were bought and worn by men who never fought

men who served in US Army bases

they legitimately wore them because they thought the coats looked nice

[willow eagle]

They look really comfy and practical, too

[thin geyser]

Yea they were

[willow eagle]

Had to be I suppose

[thin geyser]

however the one I have because it has patches indicating overseas service, and an infantry patch

shows that one is not one worn for fashion, it was worn for battle

The 88th Infantry Division fought in Northern Italy, in the mountains

so a winter coat was needed

[willow eagle]

I'd treasure that thing forever

It's really something

[thin geyser]

here's another very.... unusual WWII item

it may look like just a book, but its a book with a story

and another example of something I bought where the seller didnt look too much into it

Inside is this name

This book was the official blue book for the United States Navy

theyve been issuing versions of it since 1902 and still issue a modern version to US Navy personell to this day

This one belonged to Howard Carlton Latham, a young naval officer from Rhode Island

[willow eagle]

WWII is a really huge part of history for me and my family. I'm romani, gradma was a czech romni, grandpa german rom. Almost entire population of czech Roma were completely wiped out during the war

[thin geyser]

so I've heard...

it is for me too

I'm actually Chinese, although Chinese American

and a lot of my family had to face the Japanese during the invasion

[willow eagle]

I see

Holy shit

[thin geyser]

about Jr. Lt. Latham though

This is him on the right

He was Junior Lieutenant aboard the submarine USS Escolar

and in October 1944 during a mission to disrupt Japanese shipping along with 2 other submarines

Escolar disappeared

The other two submarines lost radio contact with Escolar, and the submarine never returned to base

The most likely theory is that a Japanese depth charge detonated near Escolar, sinking it and killing all 22 men aboard including Howard Latham

That book was his, he likely left it behind at a naval base before going on his final mission

[willow eagle]

Wow

[thin geyser]

https://www.oneternalpatrol.com/latham-h-c.htm

He was only 22 when he was lost at sea

[willow eagle]

The fact that you were able to get it...

That's so fascinating

[thin geyser]

The book was sold just as a copy of the Bluejackets Manual, but

it was clear the seller didnt look up the name inside the book

The 1940 Edition of the manual is very common, given how many men served in the Navy during WWII

but to have one that belonged to a man who was lost at sea fighting the Japanese is something different

[willow eagle]

Yeah that must hit different, especially for you

[worn gulch]

I think I’d like a replica that’d been tailored to fit my body more. They look cool AF.

[thin geyser]

it does, especially when I hold the book

knowing that he once read it

[willow eagle]

He was quite hot too

What a shame

[thin geyser]

They never actually found the Escolar, even to this day its still missing at sea

[worn gulch]

Might be in pieces.

[thin geyser]

Howard Latham was also newly married, he had only married his wife a little over a year prior in 1943

This is from an article regarding the loss of the Escolar

The Navy waited for some word as to the fate of the missing sub. If she had been sunk, perhaps there had been survivors, and possibly some of those survivors were stranded on one of the many uninhabited islands that dot her designated patrol sector of the pacific. Word could also come that some of the men had been taken prisoner by the Japanese, but no word ever came. The USS Escolar was never heard from again.

The loss of the Escolar wasn’t made public until February 28, 1945. A month later Mr. and Mrs. Earl M. Latham Sr. of Esmond Street were notified that Howard was “missing in action”. Howard left behind his parents, a brother Earl, who was also serving in the Navy, and a pretty young wife, Dorothy, whom he had married September 30, 1943.

his brother Earl is the individual on the left in the photo I sent earlier

[willow eagle]

It's lovely that he won't be forgotten tho, I bet he'd never even dream about the fact that something will have such an impact for someone after so many years

[thin geyser]

yea, that article will continue to tell his story

and so will I when I talk about his book

[willow eagle]

That's beautiful. It's like from a movie

[thin geyser]

I actually have quite a few items with interesting personal stories, as I like to do geneology work on my stuff if possible

[willow eagle]

However, my phone is dying and so am I. I'd love to listen again sometimes

[thin geyser]

yea I was gonna save the rest of it for another time

feel free to message me if you'd like to hear more about history

its basically all I do on this server lol

[willow eagle]

You're literally a walking PDF book lmao

[willow eagle]

So no fauna pics?

[thin geyser]

I do talk about other things here and there but

my nickname is what it is for a reason lol

[willow eagle]

Yeah lol, that's amazing tho

Anyways, good night... or whatever it is in America

[worn gulch]

It’s evening-ish. Late afternoon.

[willow eagle]

I thought so

[thin geyser]

Goodnight

[thin geyser]

I brought down a big box of stuff that I need to organize

so if anyone wants to see some of the random things I have lying around, let me know

[austere nest]

Im always curious

[thin geyser]

I did dig up a bit of a rarity

however I'm not sure if I'm allowed to send it here since its ever so slightly political

An artifact from the 1964 Presidential Election

found a BUNCH of boat stuff too

Here's a rare item that was a gift from a friend

[austere nest]

Im sure that's fine, as it's not political in the sense of "controversial and likely to stir conflict"

[thin geyser]

well considering it was an election from almost 60 years ago I doubt it would be so yea I guess

So this is a set of poll watcher documents from the 1964 Presidential Election

complete with mint condition bumper stickers for Barry Goldwater

Also notice the election for US Senate featuring a young George Bush Sr.

he ended up losing that election to Yarborough

[austere nest]

Cool, would be funny to run that bumper sticker now lol

[naive obsidian]

What the...I just found this....A whole channel dedicated to history....A history channel....

https://tenor.com/view/aliens-history-history-channel-meme-gif-10744300

Sweet

[naive obsidian]

By 16 votes? 😛

[thin geyser]

Well not a channel more a thread but that’s less funny lol

[thin geyser]

I should talk about the Civil War here

[thin geyser]

Who wants to see some of the history I saw while chasing the solar eclipse earlier today

[worn gulch]

ME!

[thin geyser]

Will send when I’m home 😄

[thin geyser]

The frescos of Mission Concepcion

Originals from the 1750’s

[worn gulch]

Oooo!

[thin geyser]

among Spanish Colonial Missions, these frescos are very rare

The church is actually the oldest unrestored church in America

Opened in 1731

Bonus

The famous facade of Mission San Jose

Built right around 1782

[austere nest]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvfrhK3Fj8M

Under a Jarvis Moon tells the story of 130 young men from Hawaiʻi who were part of a clandestine mission by the U.S. federal government to occupy desert islands in the middle of the Pacific.

[trail kernel]

So I can also share some photos of historical places here?

[thin geyser]

of course, anything history is welcome here

[trail kernel]

Hmm, I can't properly post photos from my phone here

[austere nest]

You need to rank up in the server

[trail kernel]

Ohhh, okido. Thanks

I got a load of photos of European history which I can share here. Of course not all at once. Don't want to spam the place 😂

[thin geyser]

nah dont worry about spamming history here, this place is literally FOR spamming history lmao

just dont spam history in off-topic lol

[trail kernel]

Hehe, alright

[thin geyser]

Ruins of Mystras today

[trail kernel]

Greece, right?

[thin geyser]

correct

the former capital of the Despot of Morea

[trail kernel]

It's amazing

[thin geyser]

The site is stunning

I visited earlier this year

most of the churches at the site are still standing, and theyre incredible

[trail kernel]

Oh lord, I'm jealous

Greece is high on my list

[thin geyser]

The church near the entrance, that is now the Mystras Archeological Museum is the most stunning

[trail kernel]

Early medieval?

Byzantine?

[thin geyser]

Late medieval

correct

[trail kernel]

Ah

[thin geyser]

the Churches of Mystras all date to a period from around 1200 - 1400 CE

[trail kernel]

Kinda resembles the basilica I've seen in Ravenna, Italy

[thin geyser]

I know which one youre talking about, its because that one was heavily inspired by Byzantine architecture

[trail kernel]

Exactly

[thin geyser]

The frescos on this church date to about 1200 CE

[trail kernel]

That's amazing

[thin geyser]

And theyre in incredible condition for being so old

On the floor of the church is this Byzantine Eagle

two heads, to symbolize the Roman Empire's two capitals (or at least that was the case when it was first designed)

Rome and Constantinople

It's reported that Constantine XI was crowned Byzantine Emperor on that very spot

He was made ruler of the Despot of Morea as the prince of the Byzantine Empire and following the death of his father, he was corronated in that very church

He later died in battle with the Ottomans in 1453 when Constantinople fell

A modern statue of him still stands in a small town just outside the ruins of Mystras

[trail kernel]

That's a very special place

Many tourists?

[thin geyser]

I went in the off season so when I was there no

they do get tourists but, not nearly as many as other famous sites like Athens

[trail kernel]

Aye, thought so. Most people probably go to the ancient Greek sites, like, indeed, Athens or Crete

[thin geyser]

When I was in Greece, I went out of my way to see so much of the history I had learned about

not just Athens but

I went to Santorini to see the ancient city of Akrotiri

I made a detour to see the Battlefield at Thermopyae

I visited Delphi and Olympia

I went to see the two ancient cities at Mycenae and Tyrins

[trail kernel]

The lions gate

[thin geyser]

yep

[trail kernel]

Awesome

[thin geyser]

it was amazing to stand in front of the actual thing

oh yes

I even visited Sparta

not a tourist city as very little of the original city survives but

What little was there was worth seeing to me

The only standing structure of the city center of Ancient Sparta

[trail kernel]

This morning I was actually reading a whole book about ancient greece, haha

[thin geyser]

Reported to be the tomb of King Leonidas himself

[trail kernel]

😮

[thin geyser]

Yes that Leonidas, the one that famously led the Spartans into battle against the Persians at Thermopylae

These ruins are all that remain of Ancient Sparta, a mostly foundations

[austere nest]

Great shots, thanks for sharing.

[trail kernel]

Even though there's not a lot left, Sparta is still interesting knowing it fought with Athens over control of all of Greece

[thin geyser]

Yea thats why I went anyway

I wanted to see the city, however little was left, that once was a dominant power in antiquity

oh and

of course when I visited

Greece that is

[trail kernel]

Oh course, haha

The Acropolis

[thin geyser]

it may be touristy, and some claim its overhyped but

I can tell you right now

no amount of pictures will ever prepare you for the real thing

[trail kernel]

Oh I believe you

Pretty much the same for Rome

Though in Athens

The history sticks out above the rest of the city

Literally

Must make it even more incredible

Being able to see it from afar

[thin geyser]

oh yea, Athens isn't a particularly large city compared to places like London, or NYC, or Tokyo

so the Acropolis still towers over the skyline as it did for thousands of years

[thin geyser]

hello hello

[toxic nimbus]

heeey

hehehehe

feel free to share. I love seeing old stuff

[thin geyser]

Here's an amazing old book

from 1833

Science

[toxic nimbus]

I presume you have a huge collection of old books

[worn gulch]

I’m here too. Even if I don’t comment.

[thin geyser]

So outdated you may notice something odd in the astronomy section

[toxic nimbus]

ah yeah. Herschel

[worn gulch]

And no Neptune.

[toxic nimbus]

was this supposed to be Uranus?

[thin geyser]

yep

[toxic nimbus]

yeah, no Neptune too

[thin geyser]

and Neptune wasn't discovered 1846

[toxic nimbus]

yes true

[thin geyser]

Uranus wasn't called that officially until around 1850

[worn gulch]

I am experiencing my nightly Girl Exhaustion.

How do you do the TM thing?

[toxic nimbus]

hmmm why the name change? probably to align with the already started thing with Roman gods

[thin geyser]

thats the reason actually

Hershel was the name of the man who discovered the planet and at some point they just decided it was odd that all the planets were named for gods

except one

[toxic nimbus]

I thought so too

[thin geyser]

this isnt a book but

[worn gulch]

Could have just gone with Oranos or whatever.

[thin geyser]

its one of my favorite paper items

[toxic nimbus]

that handwriting tho

[worn gulch]

Ouranos.

[thin geyser]

The special part is the header

[toxic nimbus]

true