nms-the-future

[wheat acorn]

I want more things to take pictures of in NMS because the other games are just gonna be space FPS or crafting games

[tawny jackal]

I personally think 'never' is something we should never say or talk about. There is no such never.

[wheat acorn]

There's no market for it

[tawny jackal]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[dense crypt]

People just want to make billions of units using exploits sadly

[wheat acorn]

Ill likely be playing this ages after its considered "dead"

[dense crypt]

The beauty of exploration is nothing for them

[tawny jackal]

then what are we, aren't we all here because demanding for somewhat scifi space action or adventure, or any meaning of entertainment?

[wheat acorn]

Omg no

I don't care about the action part lol

[tawny jackal]

Yeah haha

anyway it's still similar,

some might disagree but some still agree at certain point.

There are market for it, just not that major of.

[wheat acorn]

Nah cuz mostly what I see here is combat overhaul requests and stuff, which is the opposite direction from me

[tawny jackal]

Everything could be adapted into various way by keeping them in harmony with giving vary multiple choices

I think HG can do it with this part, if they have much more imagination that mere people such like us stuck in random discord suggestion channel.. lol

[wheat acorn]

I'm going by Origins as the sign of things to come which hopefully just means more things to find

[tawny jackal]

unless there are someone who can send it directly to them

[wheat acorn]

Exploring with my pet makes it more lovely

[dense crypt]

I hope that they continue with what they started with origins

[wheat acorn]

HG tends to get ideas from the community but that's entirely not what this channel was ever meant for

It was meant for discussions like this

Where its been and where is it going

[tawny jackal]

Meh Ima back to my stuff frl this time unless get triggered by random stuff before my eyes fully drags away.
Time will tell eventually. new product that we could actually be satisfied or

HG makes thing no such game can compare NMS easily..

GL HF y'all

[wheat acorn]

Bye

[dense crypt]

See ya

[wheat acorn]

And its because it started with a heavy flavour of sci-fi exploring

[dense crypt]

Yep

[wheat acorn]

Wandering through the covers of old sci-fi novels

[dense crypt]

The fact that there was a big universe to explore was enough for me

[wheat acorn]

Looking at October's Sky category of "book cover" last year showed that off at least

[dense crypt]

the rest is just flavor for me

The idea of exploring a universe was mind blowing to me

[spring heart]

I think the fact that exploring the universe is essentially meaningless turned most players off from the game

[dense crypt]

Not making billions of worthless units

and generic base building

[wheat acorn]

"Useless"

[dense crypt]

I find exploring a universe more fascinating

[wheat acorn]

Games are useless by nature

[dense crypt]

than those

[spring heart]

I didn't say useless

[wheat acorn]

Meaningless has the same meaning

[spring heart]

No?

[wheat acorn]

But if it helps games are also meaningless

Having the best ship with a billion credits and a living ship and lots of QS and cosmetics is meaningless

[spring heart]

A family heirloom can be useless, but that doesn't mean it's meaningless.
A screwdriver from hardware store is meaningless but it's not useless

[wheat acorn]

A family heirloom has meaning because family has meaning lol

[dense crypt]

Exploring a universe > basebuilding/units

[wheat acorn]

The meaning of exploration is to find things

[dense crypt]

It saddens me when i see people using exploits to get billions of units and then be like "what is there to do in this game?"

sigh

[wheat acorn]

If that makes pure exploration meaningless than all games are meaningless

People don't "like" exploring is more honest

[dense crypt]

Then why did you buy the game ?

Knowing is more on the exploration side

[wheat acorn]

Thats not how its even presented anymore I already covered this

They had to add in the other stuff cuz it got lumped in with SC and ED

Idk why it has to be on top of that remade into a combat game instead of some thing simpler like adding cave stuff

Or missions about protecting a planets ecosystem

Something regarding soil/atmosphere composition

[tawny jackal]

^^^

[wheat acorn]

Nah staff ain't HG

I'm just a big fan; HG notice me pls

They do look at the server sometimes I guess; Sean did tweet a screenshot of one of the moderators during Beyond release time.

Must be but they too lurky

Eh again this was meant to field those discussions like earlier as it too often happened in #forever-archived-legacy and kinda ruined that channel.

[tawny jackal]

I'll remove mine, I was curious in impulse -removed all.

[wheat acorn]

They could add large flyers that spawn when in your ship so you could have big things flying through clouds

[tawny jackal]

Corvette class- You mean higher superior class of current starships?

That would be small mobile base ish starship

Kinda sounds nice

[red schooner]

Imagine one of them is just undercover as a regular member. Maybe I'm sean murray...

[wheat acorn]

Guess we'll find out if ideas from here start appearing in the game

And no I meant large flying creatures that would spawn as you flew down to cloud cover and maybe follow your ship as fish do when you're swimming

[red schooner]

I mean... They added pets after we talked about pets...

[tawny jackal]

Ah just large flyer like big stingray, also sounds nice

[mint lantern]

Honestly I want HG to make a portals and galaxies update. Galaxy exploration hasn't changed since the Atlas Rises update and same with portals. The most pressing things I want though are a quick repair button and rare planets that spawn maybe in 1/50 or 1/100 planets to make exploration slightly more fun. Also we should be able to have a pet worm.

Especially the worms

[marsh terrace]

Just ignore the combat if you don't like it.

Sean has got the game that was supposed to launch now, I think now is a good time to focus on polishing everything.

[wheat acorn]

False; freighter battles still don't exist and there are no faction wars.

Also I already explained that I don't expect combat removed its just my preference.

[marsh terrace]

The reason the 1984 Elite was so well received, and has aged so well, is because there's not just one way of going about making money and having fun. I've heard killing pirates and recovering their goods is quite lucrative.

[wheat acorn]

I don't need nor want this game to be Elite.

[marsh terrace]

Never said it has to be Elite, but there's a reason it's considered the precursor to every modern space game.

[wheat acorn]

What people view it as is irrelevant to me I want an original idea: a science and exploration based game with the sci-fi book cover aesthetic.

[marsh terrace]

Well no-one's making you trade and fight.

[wheat acorn]

I'm hoping they continue with the route they've taken with Origins and its subsequent chapters.

[wheat acorn]

These comments make no sense and I'm unsure why they're being posted. The channel is about discussing there past and future and evolution of No Man's Sky. I am simply providing my opinions on it.

I personally prefer exploration development over combat as I find combat boring.

[marsh terrace]

The future of NMS isn't removing things so we can say 'Well NMS has been neutered and stripped, but it is a bit less like Elite now'

I think enough has been removed, like the seamless ship disembark animation and the advanced creature bait.

[wheat acorn]

Again I clearly stated and reiterated that I didn't expect combat to be removed. You need to re-examine the context in which it was brought up earlier. It was in response to an idea of an all or nothing response to gameplay.

My all or nothing opinion would have combat non existent in favor of retreat methods

[marsh terrace]

The game needs more than just exploration, Diogenes.

[wheat acorn]

Science and exploration yes

[marsh terrace]

Trading, combat and salvaging too.

[wheat acorn]

I don't care for any of those.

[marsh terrace]

That's fine if you like to just be a nomad, but that's not the future of NMS.

[wheat acorn]

The future set out by Origins was very much exploration based, and the subsequent chapters have focused on things to find and see as well; as stated in Origins release notes. Thank you for your expert opinion though on something I don't expect to happen.

Maybe now this discussion can be closed.

[sharp widget]

yes mau'dib

[marsh terrace]

Give galaxies unique properties beyond altering planet probabilities

[supple warren]

You could, but exploration isn't strictly wander and look at stuff. Like you mentioned:

Some type of system that requires you to plan more for a planet's environment and punishes if you dont
They never showed any need for preparation or learning the environment, just a bunch of quick cuts to different worlds, some dogfights and brief skirmishes. Then in normal gameplay more wandering and gathering junk to craft into stuff, or sell.

They've sadly never really shown that much of a vision for any even fictional advanced science that they could play fast and loose with, or environmental understanding beyond hide in cave for shelter.

[marsh terrace]

I think combat could do with some polish. Besides going directly into conflicts, players could track down NPCs through interstellar space, and possibly throw specific systems into a contested/anarchy state if a specific NPC important and killed.

Tying into better fx, ships could leave behind scannable hyperspace wakes a la Elite

[supple warren]

try to imagine doing that nonviolently through a mission chain where if you've met enough other aliens you can exchange ideas with the important NPC and through some back & forth dialog eventually upend their system through extensive reforms or revolution, lol

[wheat acorn]

Yeah let's just copy every idea that Elite uses ; and I'm fine if its goofy environmental concerns like in Star Trek

[marsh terrace]

Elite Dangerous is trash imo but the earlier Elite games have lots of other stuff NMS could be taking notes from besides the scanner and supercruise navigation tunnel. Like, what's wrong with Elite? Just not big on whatever focuses slightly on combat?

[wheat acorn]

Being unoriginal is 😴 regardless of what game its copying

[marsh terrace]

I couldn't care less if it came from elsewhere.

[wheat acorn]

that planetary description stuff lights up my imagination; for gameplay they could do something more with it other than flavour text

[marsh terrace]

Tracking down NPCs through interstellar space is a good idea.

It came from Elite, so what?

[sharp widget]

a. I think the mission system in NMS could be a lot more emergent.
Instead of sending you to defined POI, let youfind any equivalent POI and use that

[marsh terrace]

Hyperspace is also a trope, let's remove that unoriginal garbage. Oh, and also that pointless 70s aesthetic. Unoriginal!

[supple warren]

A crazy idea they will never work in would be like having rapidly draining hazard protection due to unfamiliar environment that demands quick installation of atmospheric/environmental samplers in different areas of the planet, which you then use to develop the relevant hazard protection for the planet

[sharp widget]

i.e. what are all those communications towers for? theyre only used to communicate with the Artemis storyline npcs. And half the time they can contact us directly in ship. So their existence is really shaky

they should just be things we interact with when missioning. then the storyline useage can be weaved into normal gameplay

[wheat acorn]

advancing on this idea yeah; hazard protection could be a specific craftable/modifiable system that you tune to the planet you're exploring by doing research on that environment

[sharp widget]

or, they should be removed, as the useless timesinks they are.

[wheat acorn]

i think I just repeated the same thing but it sounds rly cool

[supple warren]

more or less but yeah, it fits the science vibe i'd dig seeing

[marsh terrace]

But Elite Dangerous Oddysey is also going to have players gathering stuff from planets to make their space suit better

[sharp widget]

then, make exploration missions a lot more amazing race.

have a mix of npcs in remote locations give clues to locations that reveal actual portal addresses that must be dialed that lead to systems with ancient ruins that when dug up reveal further quest objectives.

[wheat acorn]

can you imagine a truly crazy idea that completing research branches on a planet actually gave you QS instead of just nanites 😛

[sharp widget]

and the whole thing can be kicked off by rumors being returned by frigate missions.

[wheat acorn]

and I don't mean scanning all the flora and fauna i mean research

i mean it could give other rewards but having an actual gameplay way to get QS intead of the grindy ass missions would be lovely; since its already an aspect that exists

especially one that's science based

I mean at this point anything but nanites would finally give even scanning things more purpose than my personal feeling that I want to; which I usually give up on when one is hard to find

[marsh terrace]

I think the core gameplay could do with some more polish rather than some more quicksilver and QS cosmetics.

[supple warren]

It's still weird to me that they haven't worked in some kind of tracking system for fauna, albeit understandable as it isn't the easiest task

like imagine adding to the survey tool something like a bio-survey option

[wheat acorn]

Yeah or if feeding them to get faecium meant you got a "sample" and you could do something with it

fill out the info with more than just hold LMB

[supple warren]

ideally it would take input from local stuff to track specific fauna via stomach contents

[wheat acorn]

Ofc with that adding to fauna interaction would be nice too; like places that they reside and sleep etc

actually idk eating something

[supple warren]

so you test different gathered elements by popping them into the survey device and it responds like: no organism found with [input resource]

[wheat acorn]

it only takes 15 minutes >:D

jk dont kill me

I wish I could say that wasn't the first problem that popped into my head tho 😔

[supple warren]

Not terribly complex, but it at least gets you to interact with the environment a little differently than: EXPLOIT EXPLOIT

[wheat acorn]

yeah I just wanna spend time somewhere and get to know it

gives the place more personality like I already do with my imagination; because yeah I'm good at making up cool ideas about the places I visit but not everyone is going to be

[supple warren]

plus imagination isn't really replacement for actual execution and such

[wheat acorn]

I mean I get that; its just sort of a thing I brought to videogames cuz its just part of my personality

[supple warren]

yeah, I mean i definitely imagined up my own little stories for some terraforming catastrophes

[wheat acorn]

I guess I sort of also did it because they're things I wanted in the game but didn't exist; sort of my dreams wishlist from before it ever came out haha

I recognize it was just my dream stuff; still wanted it tho 😛

Swear I remember seeing a place but I think it may have just been a dream... that was dead on the surface like a dead world currently; but there were a lot of crevices all over that sank down to water level and there were fish and stuff in the water

just nothing on the surface above

Actually on that note; I wish water had a better under the surface effect

the single type of sunlight source that basically bleaches any images you take is kinda lame; and it doesn't feel like you're shooting through water when you take an image

I have to add a tilt shift effect with a DoF type thing to make it look watery

[marsh terrace]

I'd like to see better black holes - make them look as menacing as they sound, make the darkness consume your ship before warping, engine interference that makes piloting near one difficult, gravity that pulls you inwards or in a spiral around the equator, a particle accretion disk or volumetric if possible, and maybe put a giant one at the galactic core you have to fly through rather than instantly switching galaxies in the map.

[dense crypt]

There were semi dead planets before, they were so cool

like no fauna but it had flora

Sadly another thing they for no reason decided to remove

i wish they put those back

Or dead planets with atmosphere

Dead frozen/desert planets

with nothing but ruins

and crashed ships

i miss those

@wheat acorn i did find a planet with only 1 flying creature and the rest of the fauna was underwater

pretty close

[wheat acorn]

In 1.09 I found a place I called "calm shores" that was forested lush type with only underwater fauna

[dense crypt]

yeah, i miss that type of generation

semi dead planets/dead planets with an atmosphere

nothing but ruins and crashed stuff

:(.. why HG ?

[marsh terrace]

EVAs allowing the player to disembark in space should open up new gameplay opportunities, like extracting precious minerals from asteroids that are instantly destroyed by ship weapons and sneaking into freighters from the outside to hijack them.

[brave plinth]

This still exists though. Abandoned systems have all fauna removed from the planets

In fact, they have everything youve mentioned

[sharp widget]

there are certainly some gameplay mechanics I could like to see borrowed from Spore

the ability to borrow/abduct flora and fauna, and transplant them onto compatible planets

[supple warren]

i still can't help feeling like that's a mistake...Was pretty sure they were meant to be abandoned only in the sense of no aliens in the outposts...

[brave plinth]

That's a great idea that could easily spring off of the Companions update and would amplify the exploration aspects a bit more.
^^to GreenZombie's comment

Personally, I want to see the NPC mission board, the Merchants Guild member, and the Merc, Explorer, and Merchant factions go away. I use the mission board and guild member frequently and they honestly deserve no defense at this point. They're simply a waste of space. I cannot think of a single time in the game where your standing with either of those 3 factions matters except to unlock more of the missions. The rewards are minuscule compared to literally every other unit/nanite method in the game (save for collecting albumen pearls i guess) and they become a monotonous task for completionists .

At this point, they feel like a relic of pre-Nexus missions (which are arguably better) and if they aren't going to get a revamp, they should just get removed.

[supple warren]

I definitely think they should get a revamp and be a launch point for some scripted adventures, so you aren't doing them just for rewards, and I think either scrap the guilds or significantly improve them to lead to more distinct, specialized missions

Nexus missions also could use a revamp, as they're just station missions you can launch with others with somewhat better rewards but still utterly mindless tasks

I remember when missions were released, very briefly hoping they might be shortform stories involving something different happening with each type, but then nope

[marsh terrace]

I'd like dynamic planets whose climate can change over long periods of time (or changed abruptly by player interference), and the ability to destroy planets as, uh, a very late game way of gathering resources.

[brave plinth]

Destroying planets would 100% lead to griefing though. That's like an undeniable fact of the way that would play out on day 1.
Only need to look at the weekend missions or the last planet for Starbirth as an example of jerk players messing with other players.

[marsh terrace]

Whatevs. The thing I would be least concerned about if I was developing a grand space sim is horseshoeing multiplayer into the equation.

[brave plinth]

Well, multiplayer is here and HG has it in their equation.

[marsh terrace]

Well it's only inhibiting the addition of cool stuff, innit.

[brave plinth]

Destroying planets is cool stuff if it destroys a players base or their favorite planet?

[supple warren]

although, really, if it's just for a bunch of resources how is it that much different than blowing up any other rock

[supple warren]

Before the thought escapes me:
-New Sentinel class: restorers.

Unlike the aggressive Sentinels we're all accustomed to, these passive Sentinels do the behind the scenes work of restoring or maintaining worlds' balance by roaming about planting flora or tending to wildlife.

[mint lantern]

What would you guys think if NMS's galaxies were circular and used polar coordinates (distance, angle, angle) instead of being based off of a Cartesian plane (x, y, z)? The galaxies could be all sorts of different circular shapes and sizes. The only tradeoffs would be that portal coordinates would be like 30+ digits, we would possibly have to go onto a base 10 system instead of 16 for coords, and there would be a universe reset.

[visual cloak]

at this point, i 100% doubt a universe reset will ever happen again

[supple warren]

once they remember they have galaxy types and can make them much more interesting though...

[visual cloak]

i 100% desire a universe reset

[marsh terrace]

Have saves divided between versions so a set of Origins saves doesn't register on the menu in Odyssey, make them unloadable in versions that will break them if, say, an Origins save is transferred to the Odyssey set, automatically back up each save when updating between save compatible versions and make older versions easier to access.

[visual cloak]

this would be the dream, though i find it unlikely, especially on consoles

[marsh terrace]

:/

[marsh terrace]

XL ship type - between a conventional ship and a frigate, several times bigger than a large hauler. Holds a small interior that the pilot can slightly customise and pace around in while in flight, leads to hatch and ladder used to exit the ship. Cannot land, has to hover and lower its ladder.

[tawny jackal]

That's literally just a corvette class

[tawdry cape]

Making our our space station in abandon and uncharted systems and populating them

[supple warren]

network option to disable/limit seeing other players' discoveries & bases

[sharp widget]

I agree that further resets are improbable.
But, seriously, HG could use galaxies to introduce the new terrain gens.
rather than having Euclid with 1 extra planet added to all systems with less than 6 planets - just start all new saves from a new base index, and all galaxies from, say, 16 and up, are 100% new terrain gen.

[red schooner]

Or, they could add a bunch more galaxies which are like "terrain galaxies" or something

Where all this new stuff resides

[sharp widget]

if and when there is a significant new update, all new saves can start at galaxy 32, and the new terrain gen is enabled for 32+

[red schooner]

One small update I would like is if they worked on there servers a bit, so minor ship pvp is less laggy

[sharp widget]

Yeah. idk how physically limited the galaxy ids. are.
But to add "terrain" galaxies they'd need to reserve id ranges. either inside our outside the current 1-255 range.

and, personally, given how bland the 1-255 galaxies are, if the terrain generator changed every 16 galaxies, that would be a thing.

[sharp widget]

about that. They dont have servers for that. the combat is laggy because its peer to peer hosted.

[marsh terrace]

Use 257+ instead. People have bases in 256 and below.

[sharp widget]

Galaxy 257 - Neuclid

[marsh terrace]

And besides that, new people won't be able to access older galaxies which is why I want to take the opportunity to suggest an Elite-esque intergalactic drive, a hyperdrive overcharge that can be used to traverse galaxies within the 10 closest up and down the list.

[visual cloak]

i do wish they went with another approach rather than adding new planets to already existing systems

regenerating any galaxy would still probably disrupt someone’s discoveries or bases, and i doubt HG want to do that at this point

i would love if they just added new galaxies for me to escape to

[marsh terrace]

It'd be nice if the galaxies were in a cluster you could properly navigate, and updates to universe gen just expanded the range of discovery around Euclid.

[mint lantern]

That would also give everyone a better reason to go galaxy hopping and I wouldn't be alone in the 50th. If they added this they should also add the ability to get to the galaxy through a portal if you've been there and if you haven't it will just give you the transport error and go to the closest galaxy you've been to. Also they need to make the coordinate system the same with the portal system or vice versa (that drives me insane).

Also freighters should be able to go galaxy hopping

I would prefer a galaxy map like our star map with each star being a galaxy (much more spread out of course) and with a center of the universe. We could use a freighter or something to get between them that way but use a portal to get back to them.

[marsh terrace]

Well the center of the Universe better not just lead to Universe 2 with slightly shuffled galaxy probabilities.

[mint lantern]

Sry misread the above comment

I meant to say that another universe 2 might not be so bad if the changes were not just slight.

Also the universe map should be a test to see if having different galaxies not having the same star placement is possible.

[marsh terrace]

But what's the point? We already have different galaxies, the center of the Universe has to be different and it has to be worth faffing around different galaxies for probably hundreds of hours. You do that, get to Universe 2 where all the creatures have bollocks, is it worth it?

[mint lantern]

It probably wouldn't be but if HG had only 2 universes and used the 2nd for testing new features before they come out to universe 1 then I think it would be worth it.
Maybe the 2nd universe has its own atlas storyline and in that universe a different machine created by telemon generates everything (since the atlas did not do a very good job). The possibilities are endless for what the 2nd universe could have different.
But I agree small changes such as galaxy probability would not cut it.

The features would probably be mostly stable and across specific galaxies.

[marsh terrace]

Is it me or does everyone here agree that it's worth going around for 500 hours just to see a generation seed change?

[mint lantern]

Nah 500 hours is excessive. My current save has only 115 hrs since beyond. But it depends how extreme the generation change is.

[marsh terrace]

You can't just keep piling on different variations of the same thing at the center of every major astronomical body

Give us something interesting for going that extra quintillion miles

[mint lantern]

Maybe each universe would be its own version of the game with the improved galactic map and a way to access it?

[marsh terrace]

Now how would that work.

[mint lantern]

Each time you go through a universe your inventory is wiped same with ship and it will be like you started again in a different version. It could be a way to access different versions and still be able to do multi-player and have the nexus. Of course all the version would be made compatible with eachother. The game would still contain everything that players from different universes could have but it would be impossible to obtain items from different universes.

[marsh terrace]

No, how would it work? Just up and launch Pathfinder if I warp to Funkus XVI?

[mint lantern]

Kind of. The versions would be altered to be compatible and have features such as the nexus. NMS would still be one version but contain each version as a subset. But yes if you warped to a different universe it would change versions. Let's say you liked something from the old versions more, you could go to that universe to obtain it. It would be like being in a different version but in reality your just in a different area of the game (also lighting would be different between versions). You could go between universes using the base teleporter and bring things from different "versions" back. Like you could have a fully upgraded hyperdrive then go to the atlas rises universe to get the warp drives theta, sigma, and tau to get 5000 ly+ on your hyperdrive.

Of course bugs would be fixed.

[marsh terrace]

If I want to play different versions, I'm not going to go and use this grand new feature you envision and get my save corrupted in the process. Center of the Universe, not smegging worth it if it's just shuffling things around. Again.

[mint lantern]

It would not corrupt your save though. The "version" would be specificly altered to not corrupt saves. Also in the menu you should be able to choose what universe you start a game in.

[marsh terrace]

Code =/= if(player=want.launch) then(launch.NMS)

Besides that, it seems you're not listening.

[mint lantern]

Okay it might corrupt a save

[marsh terrace]

Well idc because just shuffling things around isn't worth going 5 million light years.

[mint lantern]

Idk now how to motivate people to go that far cuz it would take a lot of motivation

Maybe universes might not be a good idea

But we should still have the universe map just without the center

[marsh terrace]

Yes, the last thing people will be motivated by is changing the seed. The game already has enough worthless pointless things that have little payoff.

[marsh terrace]

What? No. Add something worthwhile. But it won't just be another Universe to faff around in.

[mint lantern]

Okay how about removing the fade of the galaxies to make the galaxies actually fade out into nothing. At the edge of the galaxies star systems should get less and less common instead of this region of unselectable systems.

It wouldn't harm bases since no one can have a base inside the fade anyway.

It would go for about 10000-20000 ly out until the star systems become so sparse that you can't go any further

The problem is that these systems would be "corrupt" according to portals

[marsh terrace]

Not sure why this needs to be a thing, but ok

[mint lantern]

I just don't like how at the edge of the galaxies it's just full blown regions and then absolutely nothing

[mint lantern]

Also I have an update to this thing I suggested. I wrote a code using python to see if it is possible for regions and galaxies to have their current size using this coordinate system. The outcome was yes it is possible but portals would use 20 glyphs sequences instead of 12.

I would trade 20 glyph sequences for circular, disk, and different sized galaxies any day. I dont like that the galaxies are rectangular.

[mint lantern]

nvm probably 22 glyph sequences would allow this to happen

If they did this the sequences would look like this

This glyph sequence tells you that you want to get to the first planet of the first system of a region 003.8572 degrees to the right of the core, 016.2895 degrees north of the core, and 1856 regions away.

putting in would still bring you to the center

[marsh terrace]

The galaxy is big enough as is. Sure, you could have a mandelbulb-shaped galaxy. That's neat. But maybe not what's worth a reset.

I'd rather a small galaxy with everyone starting closer to a specific region to make the populations more tight-knit and to make the galaxy less abstract.

[mint lantern]

Yeah with coord system we could have small galaxies too along with big galaxies. That's the beauty of this coord system, it works for any round shape. Also the same spawn idea is great but how large of an area in ly do you want the galaxies and spawning space?

But I agree probably not worth a reset

[mint lantern]

If they ever do a reset (I doubt they will because of player bases and people's hundreds of hours of progress) they should do it like that

I'd rather be a closer together than farther apart to other travelers however I like exploring so ¯_(ツ)_/¯ I'll choose having small galaxies and spawning next to people as well as having other galaxies be massive and complicated.

[marsh terrace]

Start on a tiny galaxy, and explorers with the theoretical hyperdrive overcharge who have explored enough get to warp to a bigger galaxy.

[visual cloak]

imagine if HG created a galaxy for experimentation only

updating it with all kindsa changes to systems, space, terrain, flora/fauna

and we could go explore and test it for them

[mint lantern]

Yes

[visual cloak]

sorta like how other studios introduce experimental online modes

[mint lantern]

I wish they did that but there's already an experimental mode on pc

[visual cloak]

tru

[dense crypt]

I would love a separate galaxy for people that don't care about bases

So they can add new terrain gen and stuff

A galaxy for explorers

Something like a separate "game mode"

[supple warren]

important to remember they can regenerate the universe and retain the bulk of player progress, bases aside, but since so many are stupidly rich they can just buy what they need to rebuild anyway

Also I still find it funny some are resigned to no further resets because bases or whatever, when a clear solution to that issue is in making bases portable.

Don't build a universe around some anthills, build the anthills around a changing universe

[dense crypt]

Fallout 76 can do it

So no excuse for HG

Crippling an entire universe for some bases is wrong

[left oasis]

my thought on the problem was to just expand portal addresses by one symbol, and put at the start of all current galaxies and use, say, at the start of all "new" galaxies

old galaxies exist and function, people don't lose their bases, but they can do whatever wacky things they want to try to make the new ones more interesting

[supple warren]

That tends to create the ol' expansion problem you find in some other games tho, where people drift to the new stuff because they've had enough of the old.

Even now, I'm not gonna lie, I kinda gloss over the Next style worlds to try and find the Origins style worlds for something different

[left oasis]

honestly I don't think that's really a problem

[supple warren]

Which would only become even more of an issue if they went with what I've suggested in the past in terms of better systemic interactions, but only for new galaxies/worlds

[left oasis]

if anything, it's a solution, it gives them a way to generate a galaxy 100% on the new rules without players losing anything they currently have. if people move on to the new stuff, that's fine; really, it's kind of the point

as it stands, when they added the new Origins stuff, it created a quality/diversity gap between the Next and the Origins worlds

the key principle here though is letting people choose to move on instead of forcing them. it gets recieved much better

[supple warren]

Wouldn't maintaining parallel systems just compound issues though? It seems like we've already seen this with the parallel and at times intersecting forms of basebuilding

[left oasis]

that is a valid concern, yeah. personally I'd be fine with losing all existing bases, I tend to do a new save for major updates anyway, but I also suck at building

I just think that ultimately they'll need to do something, because continuing to bolt on new generation haphazardly in the holes left in old exploration is just going to look increasingly sloppy

[supple warren]

This is why, while I'm certainly not against what you suggest, I think it'd better serve them long term to work towards a more unified, cohesive approach

Take a step back, outline the different systems at play, task those interested in them to review them, come back together with the detailed overviews of each, and assess how to go about revising and better integrating them together

It's not the most straightforward or exciting task (I've tried to do it myself when plotting out mod ideas), but it seems better than, like you said, haphazardly bolting stuff on

[left oasis]

it's a pretty common problem in live service games and MMOs, too, where new systems get added but never get integrated with things added later

stares pointedly at Warframe

[supple warren]

Yeeahh, and what gets me is, they're a team. It's hard for any one person to try to outline and overview a big game, but I'd hope with a team they'd be a little better able to do so...

[mint lantern]

So I guess a universe reset wouldn't be so bad

[marsh terrace]

Well I think a good way of adding features without demolishing important landmarks is important for the future. Can't have dozens of planets piling up.

[mint lantern]

Yeah the systems just kinda seem full now with like an average of 3+ planets plus another planet from Origins.

They should drop the average to 2 planets per system and make water systems more rare. So far almost every system I've found is water and it gets annoying when the perfect planet I find is actually made up of millions of small islands.

[marsh terrace]

What good is dropping the average system size? Just decreases the diversity of planets in a system and it isn't a long-term solution for universe resets. I am starting to think the birth of new galaxies would be a good way to hold off destroying old locations.

[mint lantern]

Sry I just find the frequency of water systems annoying. Anyway the birth of new galaxies would be amazing if they added the upgraded hyperdrive spacecraft to warp between galaxies.

[tardy wave]

I think a good way to add new terrain generation and stuff like that would be to put them in new galaxies, but then change the starting galaxy to one of the new ones so new players would get the content too.
This would require (or at least greatly increase the need for) a new method of traveling between galaxies, and I think a good way to accomplish this would be through atlas stations. Right now, you only ever have to find and go to them in one quest, so maybe once you complete the Artemis storyline and the atlas path you could go to a station and ask the atlas to take you to another galaxy. It would make a lot more sense than jumping through galactic cores, and it could open up opportunities to let you select what galaxy you would go to, although it shouldn’t let you pick an exact one because that would be too easy.

[supple warren]

@tardy wave interesting thing about using the Atlas Interfaces this way is that there's some text floating around in the files that made it sorta sound like something in that vein was in the plans at some point and...Well, I guess just hasn't been revisited

The idea, as I recall, was essentially to let you redo the interaction of picking a galaxy type and having it take you to one of that type...Perhaps the next in the sequence from whichever galaxy you were already in?

Hard to say since never implemented.

[mint lantern]

Yeah I agree they should make more methods to get between galaxies such as using atlas station and if they already have some code floating around that means that they have a point to start from. Another way that we should be able to get between galaxies is boundary failures. Getting between galaxies using boundary failures makes sense from both the story line and their shape. In the story line, each galaxy is an iteration and when you go to another galaxy its crossing boundaries. Also they literally look like star ship portals.

[oblique hawk]

I think following the trend the 3.3 update will come in April right? and then the 3.4 in around June or July and then a 4.0 huge update on august or september

let's see what they decide to do in 4.0 this year

[left oasis]

it's occasionally come up that because of all inventory slots being maxable on every (S-class) ship, Haulers are kind of pointless. I had an idea to fix that, and also make other ships more interesting too: a third bay. Each class of ship gets a third type of bay that can take different things depending on the class.

Haulers get a Cargo Bay, with double the per-stack capacity of the General inventory, returning their value for mass cargo movement. (especially on Survival)

Fighters get a Weapons tab, allowing them to have extra storage for weapons (and upgrades) without cutting into their general tech bay, with a few new weapons that are exclusive to this bay and, therefore, to fighters in general. Homing missiles perhaps?

As the "balanced" option, Shuttles get a Utility tab. They can have equipment that allows them to improve in combat (while such a shuttle would do less damage than a fighter, it could end up with better shields), specialized mining equipment for improved ship-based mining yields, and... uh, other things. Shit I don't know, I'll get back to you.

Explorers get an Astrometrics tab, which accepts Pulse Drive and Hyperdrive systems, along with new anomaly/encounter-detecting equipment and probe launchers - does a planet have resources you want, but you don't want to hunt them down? Fire a mining probe and it'll return to your ship in a while, loaded with resources.

Living Ships... I don't know what to do there honestly! Perhaps a new Mutations system where your ship can randomly develop mutations that alter its properties, which would be removable if you get one you don't like. Unlike existing LS tech, this wouldn't require finding space encounters, instead just happening over time as you use it, presumably at roughly fixed intervals.

Exotics don't really need the help, tbh, they'd probably get by just fine as "no unique features, just really good base stats".

(it should also be noted, this is coming from someone who spent entirely too much time messing with her ship loadouts in Escape Velocity Nova)

[supple warren]

for living ships i'd say an anomaly detector, uncharted/abandoned system antennae, and the ability to not take any damage from traveling through black holes/galaxy centre

[left oasis]

Sensible choices, especially that last one.

[supple warren]

but also the mutation system idea could prove...Interesting

Especially if you tied it into visiting different biomes/star system types/galaxy types, so then it'd be like the experience/exposure was influencing different adaptations/mutations

[left oasis]

it was kinda hard to come up with anything else that'd make sense, since HG has gone with the idea of not being able to just bolt things onto a living ship. Living ships apparently do not get piercings.

I do like the idea of connecting it to visiting different types of systems or planets, yeah. Good way to give the player a chance to influence it instead of being 100% RNG

[supple warren]

Mmhmm

I've also just thought that living ships should basically be an improved version of explorer starships, and they almost are in terms of simpler launch/pulse/warp costs

[left oasis]

I can see that, but tbh I'd kind of prefer if no ship is a pure upgrade, and all of them have some distinct feature that makes them worthwhile, thus my idea up there

as it stands, for example, you have no real reason to ever use a shuttle once you're properly started, the built-in bonuses are negligible if they're present at all (C gets nothing), which sucks for someone like me that likes the designs

granted, the game's easy enough that's not really crippling, but I'd also like to see something done about that

[supple warren]

yeah, i follow that, especially considering the current situation is basically like: "every ship is nearly identical just pick whichever"

[compact plinth]

I'd like ships to be more customizable, we know ships already have lots of variations and parts, what if the player could pay credits to change parts of their ship to look different. Like if you have an Explorer class with two different wing types and you want it to be semetricle, you could go to a station and buy a decent chunk of credits to change your wing to match the other.

[marsh terrace]

Basically scrapping ships for parts without the ship hunting element?

[compact plinth]

That could make sense, to scrap a ship for parts you want, but I think it would make more sense to simply buy it rather then have to hunt for a specific part.

unless you are talking about looking for a good ship, but if it's not perfect you scrap it?

[marsh terrace]

I think it makes less sense.

Just buying parts is too easy and sorta kills the ship hunting part of the game.

[compact plinth]

Oh, that's true.

I was just trying to think what would be easier to program into the game

If we didn't have to worry about that, it would be cool to "store" parts of a ship when you scrap them, so you can put them on others of the same time.

maybe even custom paint jobs.

[marsh terrace]

The game already has to turn the seed into a set of instructions on how to build that ship, so that shouldn't be a problem if it's keeping the instructions rather than generating them on every load.

[compact plinth]

I wonder how we could change freighters to be even cooler

other then the obvious, flying them around and using all their guns.

[marsh terrace]

Allow them to take part in fights and allow exploration of the interior while still in warp

[compact plinth]

Oh!

idea!

AI's could take control on your capital ship and slowly fly it around the system

and if you get into combat, any ships you are not currently using could take off from the hanger to fight the pirates, but they would retreat before destroyed

maybe even select what ships you would want the AI's to use, like you don't want them to use your S rank ship in case it gets blown up

[marsh terrace]

Hire NPCs to control your secondary ships either as a wing with you or as a group helping defend the freighter

[compact plinth]

What about your smaller frigates that's you've hired, they also have weapons

[marsh terrace]

Frigates should be pilotable.

[compact plinth]

If you have a Capatial ship, many fighters as your command, and a small Armada of frigates, there should be larger sentinel and pirate threats you could fight.

You warp into a system and see a Pirate Space station, that have a capital ship guarding it.

You call in your own Capital ship to warp into the system with the fleet and you order the captain to launch all fighters

Frigates launch broadsides at the enemy capital ships, and small fighters take care of the enemy's fighters and make bombing runs on the capital ship.

Take out the shield generation of the station to invade it on food

there would be turrets in the inside too, but after everything is cleared out there's a ton of loot and some capital ship parts because it was defended by a capital ship.

What do you think of this idea? It would give more uses to the capital ship and frigates

But personally I would want the ship customization first.

[marsh terrace]

I think Freighters shouldn't be restricted to the area at the top. I want to see procedurally generated interiors around the interiors I can explore, connecting to bigger docking bays for instance.

[supple warren]

Some old freighter ideas:
https://www.reddit.com/r/NoMansSkyTheGame/comments/fv3dti/freighters_deserve_some_love_heres_some_ideas

[mint lantern]

They should add the ability to recharge your hyperdrive in the galactic map

[tardy wave]

I think you should be able to tell your freighter to warp into orbit of a specific planet in a system you’re in, or at least give it some form of transportation other than the hyperdrive and summoning. Also it would be cool if there was a freighter upgrade (or room) that let you beam yourself up to your freighter. I feel like getting beamed up is a sci-fi staple that could really benefit this game, but that’s been pretty much overlooked except for going back to the anomaly from a base. Maybe it could be an upgrade on the tree that comes after whatever that thing is that lets you access your freighter’s inventory remotely.

[left oasis]

the Matter Beam is the tech you're looking for there

[fossil surge]

why cannot you pilot a freighter

[left oasis]

the existing flight model likely would work very, very poorly at that scale. I've seen capital ships retrofitted onto fighter-centric games before and they never really manage to feel right

[chilly sky]

What i wouldn't mind seeing is Co-Op ships
like a ship you and your friend can sit in
(I know it seems pointless, but still cool)
As well as freighter that you can warp or pulse jump and still move around in

[supple warren]

it would be really nice if Hello Games took notes from Outer Wilds for some revisions to points of interest 👀

[wheat acorn]

Well now you know what I like in space exploration so that makes explaining it easier lol

[supple warren]

like if literally any of the points of interest had even a third of the intrigue one can find in Outer Wilds it would be a tremendous improvement, albeit not saying much since current POIs are a low bar to improve from

[wheat acorn]

Its more puzzle style oriented which turns a lot of people off; keep in mind most people don't care for outer wilds either.

[supple warren]

It was widely praised tho!

[wheat acorn]

By who?

[supple warren]

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Wilds#Awards

[wheat acorn]

Ok but I was talking about like regular gamer ppl

[supple warren]

I dunno who i'm supposed to reference for that, lol
Skim some social media? 🤷‍♀️

[wheat acorn]

Its been mostly my personal experience when I talk about it with people; which is entirely the same as when I talk about puzzle/science stuff being added to NMS

I have nothing empirical sadly bit its been a point of frustration for sure

[supple warren]

Yeah, I don't have anything empirical to go off of either, but I haven't really seen anything meh or outright negative towards it

[marsh terrace]

The reason that Outer Wilds is amazing is because every planet was thought out by a human, not wrapped in a displaced heightmap cobbled together by a boring proc gen algorithm.

[marsh terrace]

You only have to ask anyone who plays space genre games if they liked OW.

98% of complaints about the game haven't been valid, just 'Newtonian flight model bad' or 'Puzzles and brain stimulation bad' from someone who couldn't be bothered getting used to the game.

[supple warren]

and guess what? NMS isn't all proc-gen, this is where points of interest and scripted events could shine.

Instead we get go from a to b to c and occasionally the awful wait x hours junk amidst that

[supple warren]

on second thought i realized i could just point to Steam reviews for "regular gamer people" where it sits at a lovely, Overwhelmingly Positive from 15k reviews

[marsh terrace]

Exactly, imagine spending a lot of time on an update implementing many planet types and adding variables that the proc gen can tweak them with, while also revamping planets to not just be displaced height maps that fill overlapping voxels. Minecraft has roughly the same voxel resolution and can save billions of blocks without reverting other blocks, but I digress.

[brave plinth]

Outer Wilds is a wholly curated single player game. The closest comparison is the main NMS storyline and even that has to base everything in an environment that can be visited by multiple players.
Very apples to oranges comparison.
Minecraft isnt a great comparison either but it does suffer from similar issues. Basically, if it's written by an algorithm, and the player knows its written by an algorithm, it's not going to have the impact that a crafted story/world would.
One of the few games that does a decent job with it's world generation is probably Dwarf Fortress but that's totally a different game.

Imho, the biggest weakness NMS suffers from is that its a world of various "fruit salads" and the players know every ingredient. I dont think any variation of biomes will resolve the problem either, because that's just another fruit salad to the players with high expectations.

[marsh terrace]

Very apples to oranges comparison.
I mean, yeah, but what if you could combine proc gen with handcrafted planet types?

[brave plinth]

It would be awesome, i dont deny that at all. Im just saying, when does it stop being another fruit in the mix

Because atm, things like Boundary Failures, sequential in their lore entries and all pre-written, are already in the game

[marsh terrace]

I'm not sure proc gen can avoid that problem unless it's 2050 and you've got neural networks modelling proper unique planets for the game - it's easy to say NMS was born too early.

[brave plinth]

I agree, and as such, enjoy it as it is, knowing that some things just arent possible

[marsh terrace]

I'll take solace in the fact that I might still be alive when we get the NMS we want.

[brave plinth]

I mean, Ive been largely fine with the game since launch (I wasnt following the hype train) but agree that the changes have mostly made the game much better.
Surprising as it may be to some, the game's core hasn't actually changed all that much, just little embellishments over time have added up nicely.

[dense crypt]

the core is like a foundation

it's very important and they need to revisit that

combat, exploration. trading, pirating are still very underdeveloped

And let's not talk about balance

it's non existent

[supple warren]

Points of interest are practically entirely curated spaces, hence why I said that's where you'd focus on implementing lessons learned from Outer Wilds.

Like, people barely even notice that space stations and other such points of interest are proc-gen as they are, so you can either make them more proc-gen in the NMS style of homogeneous areas just with some stuff slightly different or parts rotated this way or that, or you could elaborate on their more constrained proc-gen to build more interesting exploration experiences since you then have an area you can rely on being a certain way.

Right now, most points of interest are basically just pitstops on the way to nowhere in particular.

You spend maybe 5-10 minutes at each, maybe more if you're still new and hoping to scrounge up something more out of them, but then realize there's nothing much to them and only go for some lore, loot, tech/product unlocks, directions to some other POI, and not much else.

[brave plinth]

What other things should points of interest have other than lore, loot, tech blueprints, or a hook to another poi?
Genuinely not sure what's missing from that list because when I last played Outer Wilds, that's exactly what the poi's did, the only difference being that the entire world in that game is handcrafted. I just find that what's being asked is not actually possible for HG to accomplish in any feasible way based on how the game is structured.

POI's in NMS when tied to the story are the closest that the game comes to something hand crafted.
Sorry, it's not a lack of faith in HG or the ideas that come from some of the community, but I simply don't think what's being asked/demanded is actually possible in the game. I'd go as far to say attempts were made to try making the POI's like that but were summarily dismissed as "not good enough."

And to clarify further, it's not a lack of faith in the modding community either. In fact, they've help showcase the actual limitations with the game as it is.
Similar to what Alcubeirre said, the game players are asking for is really not feasible without making fundamental changes to the game, or more realistically, an entirely new game.

[marsh terrace]

An entirely new game nearly impossible with current technology

[brave plinth]

That's true, none of us PC players can get a gpu to save our frames at this point 😭

[dense crypt]

i feel that the derelict freighter tech is a good start

they should expand that on planets too

and add more to it

Shame if they don't expand on that more

those are a good mix of hand crafted and proc gen

[marsh terrace]

Besides it being impossible to make a neural network capable of generating planets with all the same creativity as humans like the ones behind Outer Wilds with cored planets and hourglass binaries, with today's technology, just running it on a consumer device is a pipe dream.

HG tried their best, the best we can do is wait for technology to catch up with what we want

[brave plinth]

Yeah, i was mostly joking. I do think that the game would need a vast overhaul to meet the demands of (poorly) pseudo-curated experiences though

[dense crypt]

But what they managed to do is still impressive. An entire unvierse with planets that have life ?

there is no other game like this

[marsh terrace]

28 years ago, Frontier: Elite II released, and the best Braben could do is flat planets with premade mountains scattered - 2 years later, Elite 3 brought proper terrain. What will another 28 years bring?

[brave plinth]

I, as a player, have no issue with derelict freighters as they are. In fact, I have little issue with the games world generation as it is. But there are players that hyper focus on a single aspect or feature, see "behind-the-curtain" of the game and be disappointed with that.

Basically, I'm saying HG hypothetically releases a dungeon/ruins update tomorrow.
I give it a solid week before players complain again

[marsh terrace]

Elite series, Space Engine, Spore, it's all just seeds being generated; it isn't the 18 quintillion stars with economies and life forms that's impressive.

[left oasis]

30XX, a Mega Man X-inspired roguelike in Early Access, has a level editor where players can make new pieces for level generation.

I wonder if something like that could be done in NMS to make it easier for HG to continually update and expand freighters and any future dungeons down the road; offload some of it to the players, devs obviously still have to approve it. Maybe have some cosmetic rewards available for players who submit pieces that get used.

that way, future patches can also include new procgen dungeon pieces without that taking away too much of HG's time from developing new features and fixing bugs

[marsh terrace]

Spore crowd-sourced the generation of the species to the players, the randomness doesn't show like with NMS.

You've already got thousands of neural networks passionate about the game and who have all the creativity of a human.

[left oasis]

right, so there are examples of that sort of thing working. the main issue here is the way derelict generation works, it's not the same as Spore creature generation where it's something players already do

the kind of rooms used to piece together freighters aren't something that normally comes up in the course of building, and by the nature of derelicts they're not the sort of thing most people would usually build anyway

like, most people don't have lockers tipped over on the floor of their own ships

[marsh terrace]

My freighter has a sort of wardrobe with some junk all piled up in the corner.

[left oasis]

yeah, but most people; Spore had the advantage of being able to pull from the entire playerbase because everyone was already making their own creatures as a core part of gameplay

this would require some sort of new process, but it is one that I think would be very good for the game's longevity

[brave plinth]

Now im wondering if its possible to depower a freighter with a save edit / mod, and leave it in a system with another player to freak them out

[marsh terrace]

It doesn't weave into the core gameplay but it doesn't require breaking the player's immersion: you sign up to help design a freighter interior plan on a station to be payed with credits, and then the game uses its proc gen to scatter gross things around. Not sure how I feel about the not being able to customise gross things part of this plan.

[left oasis]

yeah it'd definitely work better for the turrets-and-drones freighters, or possible future pirate freighters

[supple warren]

Puzzles. That's what Outer Wilds has that's different. The point to another POI element there isn't just point to another POI, it's also generally info on how to interact with what it's pointing to, or that there's something there to mess with, and once you're there, you piece together the how.

Just about every bit of lore in NMS is just deadends, either because it happened in the past, or because it's impossible to actually do within the mechanics of the game as they are (e.g. frigate expedition logs).

There's not even something as simple as navigation puzzles to NMS POIs, because they're so constrained. You enter a room, read a terminal, and that's basically it for some of them. Sometimes they have a very slight puzzle which, being multiple choice, means you can just trial & error it.

[cold notch]

Do you think they'll ever make more feline/canine like entities?

The ones we have right now, look nice, but don't feel like cat

I want a cat

Not a perfect replica of a cat

Just alien enough to feel like a cat while still being an alien

[warm needle]

Try makin one yourself. The animal breeding is pretty good, you should be able to

[sharp widget]

you are describing the opposite of how animal breeding works

[warm needle]

Feel free to explain why Im wrong instead of just saying I'm wrong then

[wheat acorn]

Or don't, and have this argument elsewhere.

[warm needle]

Wasn't trying to start a fight, if I'm wrong I would like to know how and not just told

[marsh terrace]

What argument???

IMHO civilised discussions isn't shooing people when someone wants another person to elaborate on what they said

[supple warren]

To elaborate, if my understanding of the request, and sequencing, is correct, they would like more feline/canine variants apart from those we can currently find.

Sequencing, while fairly capable, is largely constrained to modifying within the limits of what we already have in the game, i.e. adornments, body types & parts, textures, colors, etc. Thus it cannot create entirely new variants in the sense that I suspect is being requested

[warm needle]

Yeah that makes more sense. I haven’t messed around much with this animal update because of that timer thing and I’m on Xbox so no way around it. That does clear things up tho

[lofty tendon]

any chances for an update that makes the black holes more realistic looking?
maybe rename the old ones into wormholes and make new systems with bigger more realistic looking black holes, or don't rename them, and still make new systems with those bigger black holes(planet sized or even larger), that teleport you near the center, but that are extremly rare
maybe add mini suns that "orbit" like the planets as well, or neutron stars

[marsh terrace]

Make black holes more fun, use shaders like Space Engine so the event horizon engulfs you as you're pulled into a spiral difficult to escape

[spring heart]

@lofty tendon what’s the desire for them to look more realistic?

[sharp widget]

well

actual stellar blackholes do look cool. we have interstellar with excellent renders. and "photos" of a really distant galacic core black hole.

none of this is relevant however as, the blackholes we have are clearly a transportation network of some kind

the actual stars in the system are just fine. and "the black hole" is a tiny thing really close to the planets and has not sucked them in. so not a stellar object.

[wheat acorn]

Just hide more developed Atlas installations beyond the schwarzchild radius of larger black holes that can only be accessed by a "key". Otherwise it should be instantly fatal.

[marsh terrace]

I don't think anything in this game should be instantly fatal unless the player is aware that they're being suicidal I.E. jumping from a freighter in low orbit

[wheat acorn]

pretty sure most people understand black holes are "fatal"

[dusky jacinth]

Cries in geology canon hitbox

[marsh terrace]

Pretty sure most people associate black holes in sci-fi as gates to distant worlds. If the player goes into a black hole without a key, do what black holes normally do instead of punishing them for... what, exactly?

[wheat acorn]

well you do like to just disagree with me but I posted an idea for the game

[marsh terrace]

The way the Geocannon works led me to believe it was supposed to be a creative/debug weapon where the terrain manipulator was impractical for whatever.

[marsh terrace]

I like your idea except for the instant death.

[dusky jacinth]

Maybe instead of death you get teleported to a random planet in the system, 500u from your ship and some tech gets damaged
Or it pushes you back and spawns sentinel ships at your position

[marsh terrace]

I was thinking a hidden, anomalous planet too distant to show up on scanners.

[dusky jacinth]

Oh yeah, they could just add a corrupted atlas planet and you gotta navigate a underground building, abandoned freighter style. At the end you get teleported back to the system's space station.

Maybe find some lore on the creator of Atlas

[marsh terrace]

Rather than being teleported back, let the players stay.

[dusky jacinth]

Maybe they could use this idea to add more mechanical creatures too

[brave plinth]

On the black hole topic, the BH's in game are heavily based on pulp sci-fi (as is the rest of the game), and so there's no real value in making them "realistic." In fact, making them realistic as we know them to be now would be exactly as @wheat acorn said, instantly fatal without handwaving the realism away.
Its probably fine to keep them as effectively wormholes since we are talking about a game that has floating rocks and FTL ships. I really dont think adding realism does anything but take a stance that HG wants to make a realistic game, ready to be trashed by people pointing out flaws in the realism.
Keeping with the purely pulp sci-fi basis allows more crazy ideas like hollow planets (like Journey to the Center of the Earth) and similar fictional concepts.

Also, hollow planets sounds cool af, like geode worlds and stuff

[wheat acorn]

theres a good scifi series with the kind of covers NMS is based on and it specifically has aliens hiding star systems beyond the schwarzchild radius of a black hole

[marsh terrace]

I wouldn't make black holes more realistic, but I would borrow attributes from real life, such as the way spacetime twists to the extreme rotation of a black hole forcing objects falling in to spiral inwards

[wheat acorn]

and it requires a "key" to "open" it

so despite protestation it fits exactly into the era and type of scifi NMS harkens to because the series is 70s 80s

[brave plinth]

Yeah, it would be cool if they were expanded on a bit too. Or maybe make the relic gates go to other galaxies

[marsh terrace]

I'd make black holes less realistic
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/39/d9/37/39d937dd0acf067f942fd648ec422ed3.jpg

[wheat acorn]

well then you don't care about 70s scifi 🤷‍♀️

[marsh terrace]

You talking to me? I did say less realistic and linked an image depicting a black hole as a scary vortex rather than a big black boring disc (:

[brave plinth]

I think maybe someone else was wanting more realistic visuals on the black holes. I was just mentioning it doesnt actually carry much value if the game is an artistic interpretation of fantasy sci-fi depictions

[violet vortex]

i do prefer artistic interpretation over realism.

[visual cloak]

same

realism can sometimes get too.......real

[stone topaz]

Really?

[brave plinth]

Really real

[midnight river]

Real

[brave plinth]

For the same reason that aerospace engineers can enjoy the game because it makes no claims to realistic depictions of aerodynamics, I doubt physicists/astronomers would have an issue if the game makes no claim of accurate astrodynamics.

But i think we can all agree that chemists would lose their ever loving minds at NMS refining

[wheat acorn]

nothing realistic about hiding a star system inside a black hole as far as we know it

let alone an Atlas station

as long as it has fittingly unsettling music to go with it 😛

and a crazy trippy skybox

[brave plinth]

Maybe take players to phantom systems (that are less janky than Likholu). Might be interesting and give some (more) incentive to use them.

[wheat acorn]

make sound echo too; that's be super weird to experience in space

[brave plinth]

10/10 would be 100% creeped out by literal echo space

[wheat acorn]

weird skybox; know you're "inside" a black hole, weird echo sound and unsettling music

sounds good to me 😄

big intimidating

what does it do? haven't thought that far ahead yet

[brave plinth]

Im a big sucker for investigating the unknowns in the game as it is, so id be hella pulled in by this. Im still trying to figure out stuff like: do relic gates lead to the same exit everytime.
Theres hardly a reward in those things and i think thats what keeps them so mysterious

[wheat acorn]

imagine if you can map them

though its a random encounter isn't it

i am also 100% into mysterious stuff

[brave plinth]

Oh, idk yet. I still havent found a relic gate that spawns as a first encounter. Once I do, im investigating though. I had a false alarm on one a few weeks ago and was bummed to learn it wasnt the initial spawn

[wheat acorn]

I literally haven't found a single space encounter outside of trade requests in aaaaages

[brave plinth]

I think theres less trade requests in uncharted/abandoned systems, but ive definitely still had them in both. I assume that increases the chances

I am pretty sure the random black hole encounter has the same entrance / exit, its just the relic gates im not sure of

[dense crypt]

They tried "realism" with NEXT, and it didn't go so well

removing 80% colors just for the sake of "realism"

Made the game boring as hell

[marsh terrace]

Why don't we also remove pulse drive, make the engines 10x less powerful and remove the speed limit.

Also re-entry heating kills you because a ship that small and with that little protection shouldn't be able to survive re-entry

Also black holes will kill you with tidal forces if you wander within a few hundred thousand units and the galactic core just kills you

No atlas key will save you from tidal forces

[dense crypt]

Exactly

Let's remove the floating islands too

Let's have only earth be everything

MEGA realism

[marsh terrace]

Really, not many exoplanets are earthlike.

[dense crypt]

i know. I'm just making fun of people that associate realism with only earth

forgetting the rest of the universe

[marsh terrace]

Also interstellar travel can only be done without hyperspace. Have fun accelerating for several years to the nearest star.

[dense crypt]

i saw people that complained that creatures don't look more 'realistic'

They are supposed to look ALIEN and WEIRD

[marsh terrace]

I think what they meant is that they don't look coherent, sadly proc gen isn't good at coming up with anything new.

[midnight river]

There's some wacky and alien planet environments within our own galaxy

A planet of diamond. A planet with glass rain. Pretty nuts whats possible

[dense crypt]

Yep. But for some if it doesn't look like earth 2.0 it 'unrealistic'

🤦

That's why they made frozen planets look like a plain generic earth winter

Same for deserts. Space Arizona

Same for sunsets. They look like earth sunsets.

I hate NEXT.

[marsh terrace]

Why does space fog apply to nearby asteroids but not planets? @upbeat lichen's screenshots in #forever-archived-legacy show what they should look like.

[upbeat lichen]

Because HG makes weird decisions

[supple warren]

probably something to do with trying to address the request to make planet surfaces and orbital view correspond more

That is, what you see is what you get sort of effect

[solid goblet]

Living freighters

stellar mega structures

[zenith marten]

Next update will be living exocraft or jetpack. I'm calling it

[visual cloak]

n o

the jet pack would have organs that flail and spray as they propel you through the air

[zenith marten]

mm yes

Seriously hoping for physically moving freighters this year

Also skybox nebulae which actually corresponds to the nebulae around the system in galactic map

[sharp widget]

i am seriously fine with freighters the way they are.

all i want is the ability to summon multiple of them.

I'd rather have multi player flyable frigates.

and even there, the frigate(s) would be controlled via a 3rd person homeworld style interface.

[brave plinth]

Windows for freighter bases would be cool. Thats another one of those "PC players can do it, so why not everyone" changes that I dont see offending anyone. I dont even build freighter bases and think it would be nice to have that be a feature (instead of a save edit or mod).

[feral dawn]

I'd love to see some new weapons, gear, ships and upgrades to grind for. Also finally addressing caves being identical would be nice, they were one of the features I was most excited for at lunch.

Add some proc gen cave dungeons/ancient ruins with rare loot. Hello Games plz 🤞

[marsh terrace]

I think HG could be doing a lot more with them.

[dense crypt]

Agree. As an explorer the freighter is my main base

i don't like planet bases

But they feel so underdeveloped compared to normal bases

As an explorer i want some 'science' stuff on them

Different type of scanners and science terminals where you could analyze stuff

for rare 'data/resources' that you can sell

and so on

[sharp widget]

id like inside-out freighters, where the freigher consists of the minimum parts and the control deck, and then instead of the freighter build menu, there is an airlock door out into space, and you can build using the prefab menu.

so the freighter becomes basically a mobile space station of your own design.

[dusky jacinth]

I want a buyback option on trade stations
So if you accidentally sell something you didn't intend to you can get it back
Also stop shuffling the item list when I sell stuff

[gloomy hazel]

That‘d be lit, but buildable doors on freighters are also badly needed. It doesn’t make sense that all rooms should be open, where‘s the privacy lol

[marsh terrace]

I'd also like more capital Freighters with more variety, for instance a research vessel that consists of a mostly transparent aluminum hull with a sort of wire frame around it a la USS Cygnus.

[sharp widget]

Ah, yes, the only doors are the airlock door pair.
I'd like "double volume" rooms. Rooms that when build on the floor above other rooms remove their floor so you can create multi height volumes to create more compelling internal storage and engineering areas/

[mental mountain]

S H I P. C U S T O M I Z A T I O N.

[polar tendon]

Hoping that Sean overhauls combat, enemies, and also world structures

If he can make planets more unique and special, that would do it for me.

Ship customization would be epic, but that would kind of kill the fun in finding a rare ship

[mental mountain]

True

[dense crypt]

Ship customization would kill a big reason why many people explore

Ship 'hunting' encourages exploration big time.

[polar tendon]

But the end goal of it is just to own a rare or cool ship.

[dense crypt]

If they add ship building they could make a separate class/role of ship that can only be built

[polar tendon]

It won't serve any function besides looking cool

[dense crypt]

an leave the ones we have now how they are

so if you want a current ship you explore, if you feel the need to build just use the different class

[polar tendon]

There is variety in the sense of cosmetics, but the only thing differentiating them is the class system.

In a gameplay sense.

I've played NMS since launch, and i love the updates they made, but it still feels very repetitive.

[dense crypt]

Yeah

Same

[polar tendon]

If Sean introduces actual variety and rarity of items, and player trading interface, that would be cool

[dense crypt]

I really hope they say NO to some player suggestions. ship building would kill a big reason why i explore

[polar tendon]

It would make the game akin to an MMO, but i think it would really do it for people to be able to find rare buildings/structures/ships/items/gear that don't just look cool but also do cool stuff.

[dense crypt]

But it's HG and they like to add everything the community wants

[polar tendon]

Which is good/bad but we can't really make that decision until it has come out.

our only enemy is time, HG needs time to implement things period.

I just feel like if they focus their next major update on adding different types of gear/weapons/buildings to the procedurally generated pool, it would give players more to sink their teeth into

There's a lot of stuff for new players to do and explore, but not a lot for seasoned and veteran players to do.

It becomes a steep curve for content once you have a lot of stuff,

[dense crypt]

Yep. I hope they extend the derelict freighter tech to other parts of the game

[polar tendon]

^^

[dense crypt]

more proc gen POI's

[polar tendon]

Some other kinds of dungeons

yeah

[dense crypt]

with proc gen 'stories/puzzles'

[polar tendon]

Puzzles, mysteries

exactly

Kind of why i miss Legacy NMS, felt like a chill experience, without you knowing anything.

[dense crypt]

Yeah

[polar tendon]

The more "wow" factor the game gets, the more replayability we can have.

I'm excited for the possibilities in store for NMS, i just don't know if i'll be able to make it till the next teaser from Sean.

Amazon's MMO is coming out like this august and i might switch to playing that.

[dense crypt]

Looks promising

[marsh terrace]

This again... It won't kill ship hunting if you need to acquire the parts via the scrapping mechanic that's already been implemented.

[dense crypt]

So.. make ships nothing but trash to scrap for parts ?

[marsh terrace]

Please stop the strawman fallacies. You still need to 'explore' if that's what you so desperately want.

[dense crypt]

They could add a different kind of ship that only can be build

different like lliving ship

so if you feel the need to build a ship do that

if you want to explore for a ship do that for the current ones

And they could add more parts for current ships

[marsh terrace]

There's no reason you shouldn't get some parts back for scrapping your ship. I don't see how having to hunt for ships to either acquire or use to build your dream ship would kill anything.

[woven robin]

wish you could also be rewarded with fleet ships for your already existing freighter when you defend another freighter from pirates

or at least payment that isn't chromatic metal :(

[marsh terrace]

Do you mean free ships that get added to your inventory, or do you mean frigates?

[woven robin]

frigates

getting free spaceships would be too op

[dense crypt]

Agree, chromatic metal seems so weird as a reward

Even frigate fuel would make more sense

[woven robin]

"hey you defended my entire fleet from a dangerous crew of pirates!, here have 1/100th of my cargo as a reward if you don't take my crappy C class freighter"

[dense crypt]

something related to freighters

[marsh terrace]

lol wait until you get a distress signal from a cap ship

[woven robin]

cap ship?

[marsh terrace]

Capital ship

[woven robin]

oh

'ready have one

B class and rockin a sleek look

[marsh terrace]

Heard you can get them for free during a certain battle

[supple warren]

it's not free though given you have to defend a freighter or somesuch

[woven robin]

ye i got one for free when i battled

[woven robin]

yeah but tbh pirate battles are pretty easy

[supple warren]

yeah, that's an all around issue tbh

[woven robin]

perhaps like

make the pirate crew more massive in numbers

maybe pirate freighters would be fun to go against

[tame ginkgo]

I want bigger ships with interiors

[woven robin]

freighters

[marsh terrace]

I think there's something a bit more fundamental that needs looking at here.

[tame ginkgo]

Smaller , like in elite dangerous

[marsh terrace]

Frigates could be expanded upon and made pilotable.

They're already on the scale of a Type 7

[woven robin]

your own personal frigate :D

and you can join player fleets

and go on missions with other players in their frigates

maybe like a group freighter and each player has their own frigate

[tame ginkgo]

I have an anaconda so bit bigger . i want to be able to land with them

[marsh terrace]

I think frigates should only be able to hover, a frigate would end up flattening a landscape. The player could disembark via a ladder or rope that lowers and provides a means for transferring crew between the surface and interior.

[woven robin]

frigates should only be landable through like a platform that can be built

which can open up the idea for group bases

[tame ginkgo]

To be honest i want flyable ships that have interiors , like i want the inside of a hauler

[woven robin]

probably not much besides the cockpit

because the entirety of it is just storage

[marsh terrace]

I don't think the tiny standard ships have enough room for an interior, just mechanical internals and modules.

[woven robin]

also exotic ships is just a ball with sticks on it, basically just a cockpit

[tame ginkgo]

Yeah , it's annoying how small they are

[marsh terrace]

Guppy is just a ball

[woven robin]

though a 360 view of the interior of your ship would be nice

bawl

[marsh terrace]

what?

What makes them annoying?

[tame ginkgo]

The size of them

[marsh terrace]

Their purpose isn't a big a$$ orbital base

[tame ginkgo]

I would like them to be a tad bigger

[marsh terrace]

They're just meant to be like the 4020 equivalent of a car.

[woven robin]

would be cool to have different sizes of ships

a bigger ship would have more storage but it would also have less speed, less fuel efficiency, etc.

[marsh terrace]

And also be impossible to land on any standard landing pads

[woven robin]

smaller ships are faster, sleeker, but have atrocious storage

oh

well then make uh

different landing pads for each size of ship

[tame ginkgo]

We need size classifications

[marsh terrace]

The game's infrastructure isn't meant to handle ships between the size of a frigate and a standard 'car' ship.

[woven robin]

well not frigate size, maybe just enough size to be walkable?

[marsh terrace]

Frigates aren't a problem, they've got their own way of dealing with being unable to land.

[woven robin]

think of like, a base with two circle rooms

[marsh terrace]

isn't that just a frigate but less fun?

[woven robin]

sounds about right

maybe we should just stick with the frigate idea

cuz multiplayer fleet missions sound so cool

[marsh terrace]

I don't think we need 5 classes between ship and freighter, I agree.

[tame ginkgo]

I have a better idea , buildable ships

[woven robin]

oooo

interesting

[supple warren]

before any more missions it would be wise to improve existing missions

[woven robin]

there are already premade elements to each type of ship

but that'll ruin the magic of finding super cool ships while exploring

[supple warren]

otherwise you just find yourself with more of the same whatever type missions we have that next to nobody cares for

[woven robin]

yeah that's true

missions do need to be improved

[marsh terrace]

Care to elaborate?

[woven robin]

maybe missions with different phases?

[marsh terrace]

Ship scrapping won't destroy NMSCE.

[woven robin]

ship scrapping?

actually i haven't used ship scrapping

[marsh terrace]

Ship parts would be obtained by scrapping the ships they come from. You'd still have to hunt for the wanted parts.

[tame ginkgo]

You just build ships from scratch , you can decide the interior and exterior and the size of them , like a living ship with mechanical parts

[woven robin]

and then you can customize your ship?

oooo

OOOOO

[marsh terrace]

Frigates with customisable interiors and cosmetics?

[woven robin]

this changes everything, time to go ship hunting

[tame ginkgo]

Yeah , you should be able to make your own frigates and freighters to make truly unique

[woven robin]

also about the mission part, would be cool to have like different sections of a mission, for example

like you would be tasked with scanning an endangered species on a planet

but then the sentinels would be upset about that for some reason, so after scanning you would be met with sentinels trying to attack you

[supple warren]

note that that's not how ship scrapping currently works, just how Alcubierre & some others would like it to work

[woven robin]

oh

:(

well how does it work then

do you at least get to give stats to the ship

[supple warren]

you just get some vendor trash mostly

[woven robin]

:(

[marsh terrace]

Right now you get nanites and credits, but most people think it should give parts to tie into ship customisation.

[woven robin]

maybe start off with colors that you can use to customize your ship with?

i mean i saw a color menu for freighters

though all the colors are locked

[marsh terrace]

I think you can get colours from freighter wrecks iirc.

[woven robin]

oh

[marsh terrace]

Take me with a grain of salt there.

[woven robin]

so like you can or can't

[marsh terrace]

I don't know but iirc you can obtain them from abandoned freighters

[woven robin]

hm

then off to abandoned freighters i go!

my capital ship won't color itself pink anytime soon

[vale hornet]

It would be cool to not get rid of ship hunting by making a unique parts generate on ships

If ship building existed

[marsh terrace]

What we've been saying for the past hour is that extending the salvage mechanic wouldn't kill ship building

[supple warren]

they need to let us scratch our mechabooties in the mecha

[woven robin]

new mission idea

escort mission, where you have to escort a ship from a space station to a planet

and guard the ship from pirates

[vale hornet]

im just saying that it would be cool not suggesting a new idea

[wheat acorn]

not suggesting a new idea in a channel literally where you're supposed to talk about new ideas? "Discuss the future of No Man Sky: what do you want to see next? What do you want fixed or changed? Excessive memery is not allowed; we want to see real ideas."

overruled 👩‍⚖️

[vale hornet]

Ok

srry

[sharp widget]

Apologies if you already got an answer, but you buy/unlock the colors, by spending nanites, at your freighters upgrade terminal. The same screen where you spend salvaged frigate modules has an extra somewhat hidden tab with the color palette.

[prisma cradle]

It'd be pretty cool if there was more than one environment in planets.

Like some areas may be tropical, another area of the planet may be extremely hot.

And overtime those different environments could shift.

So a previously tropical environment may start becoming more desert like over a few days.

And a icy location may begin receding or expanding

It'd add a lot more dynamic and It'd make the world more interesting.

[marsh terrace]

The game should take inspiration from 70/80s scifi, but it shouldn't let that influence make planets boring.

[wheat acorn]

Gateway was 70s/80s scifi and it was anything but boring; in fact it had one of the most powerful alien enemies imaginable and easily translatable into NMS

70s/80s scifi also includes Star Wars and Battlestar Galactica; Star Trek TOS

More than one environment on planets merely makes you pulse drive to another portion of the planet to experience the other biome; which is already possible by transitioning through the system itself

[marsh terrace]

Planets would be way more interesting if you could see all the biomes from space and be able to traverse them on foot.

[wheat acorn]

So it would need to be a minecraft planet exposé then, because traversing on foot would take forever even on the small scale planets in NMS

and therefore make space travel irrelevant as you could merely gather 40% of all resources on a single planet

[marsh terrace]

Make space travel relevant again by making planets more unique besides biomes

[wheat acorn]

that's naiive

[marsh terrace]

Great argument, cya

[wheat acorn]

the only aspect that matters is the fact you can accumulate specific resources from a planet

it wasn't an argument I understood we were discussing this

anyway as far as dominant strategy goes in a videogame having too many resources available on a single planet would discourage space travel severely

[marsh terrace]

Not if done properly.

[wheat acorn]

A complicated beast to wrangle for sure

[marsh terrace]

I want to be able to see what my frigates are doing, and join them on expeditions.

[shell tartan]

Newer to the game and new to the channel, so im sure this has been asked a billion times but geesh, some kind of inventory management would be dope. Button to auto-condense like items between inventories would be dope! a sort button? the ability to put an item in between the tiles ans slide everything after it one to the right? Inventory in this game has ALOT of Quality of Life Improvement to be made

[gloomy hazel]

I agree. IMO freighters need a rework or update BADLY. I feel like that they are useless (besides building a base and getting money). I'm not a fan of having something in a game that is useless cough cough exocraft cough. I would like a freighter dockyard in system were you upgrade/change stuff on your fleet (weapons, color, size, appearance, and ect). New stuff should be added too, like shields (to protect cargo of the ship, and if cargo pods are shot off the cargo should be lost) and the ability to destroy npc/ sentinel freighters for upgrades/new parts/cargo.

[marsh terrace]

cough cough exocraft cough
The purpose of exocraft is to get you around quicker than feet do and be more discrete than a starship.

[woven robin]

a different type of biological horror, well more of a hazardous planet.

a plant that spreads like a weed and chews up resources.
maybe it'll be only on certain planets?
also the interaction with sentinels is that the sentinels will actively try to hold back the spread of that weed-like plant.
so you'd have sentinels fighting alongside you :D

rewards would be very similar to what you'd get from whispering eggs, but they would be in plant pods

and they could also be used as a food ingredient for new dishes

[marsh terrace]

I really want the flight into the galactic core to be a bit more dramatic.

[violet vortex]

I must append a very particular sorting feature with respects to QOL - Inventory Management: Sorting option(s) for Sellable Items at the Trade Terminal.

It's still a pet peeve for some of us...the bizarre sort order Sellable Items currently has

[vivid otter]

I would have no idea how they could implement it but what about a “fragmented” planet, like a planet that is a bunch of disconnected chunks held together by their weak gravitational pull this would be perfect for gravitational anomaly storms!!

[marsh terrace]

Like Brittle Hollow from Outer Wilds?

[vivid otter]

I’ve never played that game but upon looking it up that looks very close to what I’m imagining!

[marsh terrace]

Play it

[brave plinth]

90% of reviews on that game say something like "I wish I could experience it again for the first time," which immediately tells me it wouldn't work in NMS.
It would be great if we stopped holding NMS in comparison to single player small world curated experiences. It's simply never going to be that because it's not that by design.

HG can't make elaborate interconnected puzzles in a procedurally generated world because as mentioned before, that's something designed by a human, not an algorithm.

I also see a ton of comments here that say stuff like, "it just needs to be done right" or "do it better". What is better? What is doing it correctly? Instead it comes off as "I don't know what the answer is, but I know it's not what you're doing." It's frankly useless commentary that doesn't propose solutions.

[north pond]

^^

[marsh terrace]

The gaming market feels a little oversaturated with 'revolutionary' (by 2050) proc gen games. Hope more games take the same trail as Outer Wilds.

I'd like an even balance of games trying to push proc gen and games that are much more interesting to explore.

[supple warren]

I thought we went over this already? HG doesn't typically look to the community for solutions but specific areas of frustration or disappointment, which while planet exploration is a broad area to be frustrated with, dig further and find that it's say issues with biomes operating too similarly or points of interest being too shallow, and there's some ground to build on

As I've mentioned here before, there are systems in place in No Man's Sky that aren't completely proc-gen, take the story missions for instance and the scripted events they involve, and you could work that structure in throughout points of interest to give them something more than a multiple choice interaction with the briefest of stories

Some of the systems are already there to improve what's in the game right now

[brave plinth]

I think this is the point where we have a disagreement. I don't think HG can do any more than that. Anything beyond that ties into what other players can see at the same time, unless they totally instance structures or other things to the player. The dialogue option method works but its not enough to satisfy some players as being fully fleshed out, i get that.
What Im trying to understand is how you envision it to be possible within the way the game is built currently, because currently, I think that would require an entirely new game release (or a sweeping overhaul bigger than Next).

[marsh terrace]

In this day and age, only hand crafted things can do better.

[brave plinth]

I'm also not shitting on Outer Wilds, please dont get that impression. That game is stunning, but I dont think its an experience thats repeatable, which is what NMS kind of demands

[marsh terrace]

The point is that it can't be repeated

[brave plinth]

yeah, not meaning it like that. I meant as a game experience
Crap, theres no way to clarify without OW spoilers, huh

[marsh terrace]

Yeah, you can't experience it again. Either way the planets remain fun to fly around as they're more than displaced height maps.

[supple warren]

So okay, take the Artemis Path, right? Make more side stories in that vein with scripted events to make them not only feel but be more than flavor text

I don't even care if they're repeatable because guess what? Outer Wilds itself is condensed repetition and it's still lovely each loop

[brave plinth]

Here's the thing, there are subtle things done during the main story that most players don't notice. And some players also want nothing to do with the story, so it begs the question, is it worth changing?

[supple warren]

Some people didn't want a story at all, was it worth adding?

End of the day that's for HG to decide, but I would like something better than flavor text

[marsh terrace]

Each loop changes, not because anything's different, but because the player knows more and more. But linear storylines, when played once and repeated, you know what's going to happen, but it doesn't tie into anything or help the player uncover more.

[supple warren]

And what I just mentioned is how I see something better than flavor text

[brave plinth]

I know its not NMS, but we probably shouldnt spoil OW for people here

[supple warren]

I think that's vague enough but yeah. Regardless my point is that repeatable or not, something more to side missions/secondary missions, so long as it isn't loads of grind or timegates, would be a marked improvement over their throwaway flavor text get some reward style now

Hell, frigate expeditions have more story to them than the missions we can take on ourselves, which is pretty sad

[brave plinth]

So what is the alternative to flavor text?

Again, removing that is a vast overhaul of the game when they introduce a new medium to present the world building

Visual storytelling?

Hide secret info in random locations?

Heck, a ton of players can't figure out what the void egg is saying half the time, so that would probably just frustrate players more than anything

[supple warren]

...i just told you a moment ago, similar structure to Artemis Path, with scripted events. You would make these missions shorter since they're only secondary/side missions.

[brave plinth]

I dont understand what you mean then by "flavor text"

[supple warren]

That reuses the existing mission system so they don't have to overhaul as much

[brave plinth]

Because afaik, the majority of the story is delivered through flavor text dialogue

Is there dialogue in your vision or not, i think thats the best way to clarify things

[supple warren]

Flavor text, as I read it, is usually self-contained with no relation to a plot, describing things that often cannot in fact be done within the game's systems

Yes there could be dialogue

But it would relate to the short story being told, not just be some throwaway hovering over mission objectives

That's what current station & Nexus missions do

They tell no story

[brave plinth]

Ok, so an Artemis path for every Nexus or station mission?

[supple warren]

so to speak, like i said, shorter since they're secondary but the gist being that they actually tell stories and have you get mixed up in events

[brave plinth]

So like the weekend events

[supple warren]

no

[brave plinth]

What was wrong with the weekend events?

They had a storyline

[supple warren]

Those told a story but the interactions were all samey, no actual events occurring

[brave plinth]

rng = samey always

[supple warren]

No

[brave plinth]

yes

[supple warren]

The point being they wouldn't be RNG completely

[brave plinth]

curating with rng is not the same as pure rng

And if you want that, get out there and build a player made story using the rng elements

[supple warren]

The way that missions appear could remain RNG, but the missions themselves not as much

So you have a set of stories that appear randomly on the mission boards, but the stories and events are set

[brave plinth]

Ok, so like derelict freighters

but not on the derelict freighter

[supple warren]

Now you've lost me

[brave plinth]

I dont doubt it, I honestly wouldnt be surprised if you told me youve never been in a derelict freighter

The logs throughout the freighter biuld on the story of what actually happened to the crew

[supple warren]

I have, but they aren't what I'm describing

[brave plinth]

If players skip that because they dont care, then the whole encounter is no different than any other derelict freighter

[supple warren]

Right, they're a decent model for improvement of points of interest but not for secondary missions as we were discussing

[marsh terrace]

Sure, you have that, but the outcome of these stories is always the same: green slop gets everywhere and the freighter breaks in a generic way. Not so much as a fire breaking out and chatting everything, sterilising everything and burning furniture or an asteroid crashing through, creating a trench in the walkable interior or the hull where you can see the various floors of the interior.

[supple warren]

And that's what I was getting at in mentioning scripted events in secondary missions to liven them up

It's kind of weird how little the game makes use of them

[marsh terrace]

I'd like to note that the latter (asteroid impacts) would give us some insight as to what happens inside the unwalkable areas of Freighters beyond the base building area.

Revealing secondary and tertiary tidbits would be good for making these things a but more worthwhile.

[brave plinth]

I thought the unwalkable areas of the freighter were revealed by just flying through a pulse encounter derelict or a crashed freighter (I explore them but I guess others dont). As for fires in the rooms, doesn't the dialogue at the first terminal say its activating fire suppression systems?

[marsh terrace]

Say its a cheap freighter with a smeggy fire suppression system, whatever lets us flesh out the derelicts.

If you ask me, HG isn't taking the time to flesh out what we already have.

[brave plinth]

Its simultaneously that and players also wanting none of what we have.
For example, day 1 of Companions was an absolute complaint fest by some vocal players.

[marsh terrace]

Like, new stories are generated but don't go anywhere or impact the player and their experience.

Companions are good, but I don't think they should have been that high up on the priority list.

[brave plinth]

I think it only got finished because some players revealed that there was stuff in the game files that related to it.
Either way, it added some neat ideas. I say that as someone who isnt particularly interested in pets. I didnt devote my life to shitting on it though

[marsh terrace]

With how much NMS has been pumped with new features to keep us entertained, it's about time HG slows down and fleshed out what they have (more derelict outcomes related to the crew and their story, living ships that show more life, NPC wings) before they end up in a spiral of making the game wider without making it less shallow.

[tame ginkgo]

I want tents

[supple warren]

i think we're kind of already past that point though, to some degree

Like they basically just introduced advanced baits and then removed them. Not that it was much, but it was something they could have built on for influencing companion temperament or something instead, like having something that works as a treat instead of regular old food

[marsh terrace]

Now that you bring this up, that's quite unfortunate. This game is becoming too simple.

First game to actively push 'wide as an ocean, shallow as a pool'.

[dusky jacinth]

Wish they'd let us warp to frigates when they get attacked
So we can fight off the attackers

[fervent delta]

PVP overhaul when?

I need a space gladiator arena

And crimes. I need to commit war crimes in space.

[supple warren]

probably whenever the combat/faction overhaul stuff comes which could be...Who knows when

[dusky jacinth]

Deeper oceans when ?

[worn forge]

No mans sky isn’t a pvp game

They will probably never change that

@fervent delta

[oblique hawk]

I think the 4.0 update will add cities

the next gen console made it possible

[ionic slate]

What about regular consoles?

[oblique hawk]

well its a shame but probably the feature must have to be nerfed hard to make it possible in last gen consoles as well

[ionic slate]

Maybe it could have the same thing as the Anomaly where some parts are loaded but others aren’t until you get close

[oblique hawk]

but really the PS5 and Xbox S X are quite capable, you can even see how some players already made gigantic city bases thanks to the increased limit in the next gen update

[ionic slate]

I guess so, I’m a ps4 player so I don’t know anything about the newer consoles

[pulsar harbor]

I want bigger spaceships

Like a small freighter

But you can fly it like normal ships

And you can fly it with your friends

[visual cloak]

a multi crew ship is something i’ve seen players desire for years. they could simply repurpose a frigate and give it a flight deck and the ability to fly. maybe an exocraft and ship dock on it as well

would be a good small update

[tame ginkgo]

TENTS

[visual cloak]

campfire

now that we have....fire in the game

[tawny jackal]

...Manual piloting freighter for repositioning from inside because why not?

[sullen viper]

Finding a good new use to the remembrance upgrade would be neat! I thought after finishing all the questline, the game may reward you with unique loot, with piece of lore related to them, maybe even make an Atlas themed update! ( More ship designs, Atlas related decors, etc...)

[pulsar harbor]

Like the shuttle that was used in Interstellar

And it would be cool if you could customize it like a Freighter

[gloomy hazel]

the ability to build a ship (from parts you find on planet or whatever)

[vivid otter]

I could see this in a way where parts can be exploration specific. Similar to how they have multitools specific in appearance and stats unique to the system it’s in!

[gloomy hazel]

@vivid otter or just more ships design in general

[supple warren]

I'm still baffled more folks don't want portable bases

Like save design, restore elsewhere

[visual cloak]

maybe if people start asking for portable bases, HG will hear, and as a result focus on making more changes to all planets

[tardy wave]

Portable bases seem like they would have a lot of problems with if the terrain was different between the starting and ending locations.

[supple warren]

That's why it doesn't directly restore, just puts down a modifiable holographic projection of the design that you adjust to fit the different terrain

Once adjusted, confirm restoration and voila

[woven robin]

New planet variant idea!

An entire planet that is just ALIVE
Not just the fauna or the plants on it, but the ENTIRETY OF IT FROM THE CORE TO THE LITHOSPHERE IS SENTIENT AND MADE OF FLESH

Kind of like hellstar remina

When mining it you would get the usual stuff but also mordite

And idk there could be ancient bones, organic structures that can be used as homes, strange looking biological horrors, or maybe even a rare crashed living ship?

[sullen viper]

you can't get living ships unless you have a void egg, but i'd be happy to take you to a mutated planet with robotic lifeforms on it!

[woven robin]

then uh

[sullen viper]

OOPS

[woven robin]

void egg shards

[sullen viper]

i believed this was the lfg channel 🤦‍♂️

but yeah

this is a very good idea

where literally everything can be hostile against ya

More deadly flora please!

Wait ...

how about making it super dark, and make it planet of origins of the abyssal creature, other than water!

I do see them in space, lets me think that is possible, what could closely resembles to hellstar remina in the world of NMS

[lunar void]

Just started playing 3 weeks ago. We need repair all button. Make all dialogue faster. Make food do something more for longer.. And to agree on above. Blueprints for bases. Save a quick design and use it. Dome area filled with food. Square room With all terminals. Whatever you want they can limit the space but another time saver. Game is already massive more time playing less time slow tasks. Also. Aliens on the ground. That fight back or any enemy battle that doesn't escalate infinitely. Possible part of missions. Infinite animals let smoke more predators. Just some random thoughts that I know others have had im sure. Played at launch didn't take came back and its what I wished.

[visual cloak]

tornadoes look hollow

wonder if HG have any inclination to improve them

make em look a little more dense, filled with dust and particles

[oblique hawk]

make them shoot sharks

[red schooner]

make sharks shoot tornadoes

its big brain time

[visual cloak]

make sharks shoot tornadoes that shoot tiny sharks made of microscopic tornadoes

[red schooner]

and said microscopic tornados give berth to the first set of sharks.

its all a cycle

[visual cloak]

👍😭👍

[red schooner]

the circle of life is amazing

[woven robin]

@sullen viper expanded idea,

what if the living planet sent living ships to fight you before you enter its' atmosphere

[marsh terrace]

first person warp wen

[woven robin]

ya know, something other than pirates to actually fight in space

[marsh terrace]

Reply feature is helpful for keeping chat tidy

[woven robin]

oh ye but they responded to my previous message a long time ago

think it'll be better if i just pinged them since it was a convo we had yesterday

[marsh terrace]

The reply feature is mainly used to keep long convos flowing, but whatever floats your boat.

[tribal hemlock]

they actually used it when the game first came out but i think when 3rd person was introduced it was changed

tbh i was playing in july 2020 right before desolation dropped

[tame ginkgo]

F5 tornados

[sharp widget]

I think that freighters should be persistent levels that do not unload when the player causes them to warp.
thus, after initiating a warp, the player(s) on board the freighter can wander around, look out the windows at the warp field, interact with objects etc.

[gloomy hazel]

joe danger bike, just for an easter egg 😆

[proper sandal]

There was originally supposed to be faction based space wars before launch.

[marsh terrace]

This. I want my freighter to feel like a ship in transit between 2 stars, I don't want it to feel like a loading screen.
Aside from that, Desolation introduced procedural corridors, something the game lacked. Using these, I want HG to unlock the rest of our freighters for exploration. Some capital freighters also have a superstructure behind the docking port which can be a control tower (I want to explore that also) and they have plenty of space where docking ports for larger vessels could go, there could be greenhouses running along the edges, Venator ships could open along the middle, etc. To get around the huge interiors, you could use tiny carts that run around rails going around the edge of the ship. All that space feels a little underutilised right now, feels a bit restrictive how we can only explore the bridge and the base area.

[past grove]

^^^^^

[golden raptor]

I think I would like to see other planet types, like gas giants or A fractured planet caused by some cataclysmic event.

and you can visit these gas giants to build floating stations and collect gasses.

[dense crypt]

Freighters fit this game so well. Having a mobile base with you all the time is great as an explorer compared to planet bases. Sadly they kind of left freighters behind :/

add more mechanics to them. Like scanners

You can scan planets from space for different kinds of resources and POI's

Some kind of terminals that you can interact with

For an explorer freighters are the perfect base

Develop them more HG

Planet bases are meh to me

[marsh terrace]

I'd like to be able to plot a course it moves about and properly take part in space battles. Scan for freighter battles currently happening, defend the freighter under attack - and maybe we could own this freighter alongside the main one?

[tired basin]

Kind of tertiary, and i don't know if this has been mentioned in relation. The freighter, or some designated ship like it should have the ability to find and chart planets of the type you enter. It would help cut out on the tiresome manual labor that currently has to be put in to find a planet you somewhat prefer.

[marsh terrace]

I don't think this game should become too automatic.

[dense crypt]

Yep, they encourage exploration. Moving from system to system is core of the game dude

[tired basin]

I'm not suggesting it does become automated, but the galaxies--for all practical purposes--are infinite. And there are dozens of galaxies. There's only so much one person could conceivably do before their death, let alone before they get tired and give up.

The thing i mainly do is exploration, but it is seriously hard to find "the perfect planet" and i think some vague categorization to narrow your search down would help.

[marsh terrace]

Well that would kill the wow factor of a hospitable planet

[dense crypt]

There are also portals

Since day 1 the game was designed to move and explore

But i think portals are what you are looking for

You can just directly teleport to a planet

[tired basin]

Its not hard to find a hospitable planet. I'm not talking solely or specifically about that. Its also the wildlife, the color of the grass, the color of the water, the color of the foliage, the surrounding planets, the economy, the conflict level, etc. All that you need to get "the perfect planet". Like im not suggesting that all be handed to you on a silver platter. Just that you are somewhat realistically assisted.

I know you can do so, but its of little to no help without communities like the NMSCoordinates group. I just think the game itself should have to help you, not that the community should have to compensate for the lacking feature.

[marsh terrace]

Well it does sound like you want it handed to you on a silver platter.

[tired basin]

How so?

[marsh terrace]

If you keep looking and you stop being picky about what you find, you'll come across your idea of a perfect planet eventually.

[tired basin]

I meant can you explain what you mean by your thought that i do infact want things handed on silver platter despite saying i dont. Its not really being picky, its just taking everything into consideration.

[gloomy hazel]

I found a nice tropical planet but there's a bug I think The planet has heat storms but it has a beach and water and clear sky

[marsh terrace]

Well what you suggest requires 0 effort for finding the planet you want.

[gloomy hazel]

A sujeston I have is they make the ships able to do a orbital strike well you tell it where to fire using a special visor and it shoots what ever you told it to shoot with out you inside the ship only works on planets

[tired basin]

What i suggested was almost verbatim "A vague categorization of a limited selection of planets." Meaning you send your freighter on a mission, it checks a specific and limited amount of systems for the type of planet you input. You pay for the mission in freighter fuel. And it comes back with a simple yes/no as to if it found your planet type, and in which system it found it.

Now what youre making it sound like im asking for is a system in which you send the freighter to scan the galaxy and come back with every example of the hyper specific planet you want, and teleport you there. Which is not even within reach of what i said. I only want light assistance.

Also its a secondary point, but we shouldn't pretend like there are not already abundant "0 effort" activities, or activities that can be absolutely abused and ran into the ground. I can set up a basic chlorine farm, expend no effort, and be a billionaire within a few hours.

[marble moss]

when are we gonna be able to paint ships

like pets are awesome, i am having a great time with the update

[marsh terrace]

We don't know.

[marble moss]

but SPACESHIP PAINT

is that too hard

you already have a mechanic for it you just need to make players able to use the mechanic

[supple warren]

@tired basin for what it's worth i get what you're saying and I think this would be a perfect active use of explorer frigates to survey star systems for you to help you chart your course more granularly.

You would still need to visit the star systems they survey to determine if the specifics of each world are to your tastes, e.g. topography, ugly planet filter or no, weather events, types of flora/fauna, etc.

Like at best it might give you number of planets, their biomes, conflict/econ status, dominant alien lifeform, abandoned/uncharted, but otherwise specifics like the types of flora/fauna, topography, are left for you to uncover

Really all the explorer frigate surveys would be adding is the planet count & biome info for you to have, considering the other info is already accessible by just panning over the galactic map with an outfitted starship

[tired basin]

It might be best to keep some sort of trade off the more specific you get. I was thinking it would just sort based off the world biome, and then if there were to be any more criteria it would be a trade off. You would have to choose to prioritize resources, sentinels, or weather. If you wanted to find a planet for an Indium base, you'd have to specify high value resources, and then individually visit the planets it charted to find one with Indium and the friendliest environment, or move on to another charting mission.

You got the idea though, and im glad someone agrees.

[supple warren]

I think to a degree that level of specificity might get tedious, personally; although as I read your idea in full above it'd be to pin down specific planets.

I think the sweet spot is in having a full survey providing largely non-specific info so you'd still want to go check out the system. Otherwise the specific filtering might come across as broken due to the odds of certain combinations being low

[marsh terrace]

If you ask me, the player has to do the exploration.

[supple warren]

They still do, lmao

This only automates the part where people otherwise glance at the galactic map, see the details, warp in, hover in space and scan each planet and then bounce when they don't see any they think they'll like

If they want to explore they'll still go down to the planet and check it out

This doesn't eliminate that part

You still have to land to see what the topography, flora/fauna, etc. is like

This is just the equivalent of sending out probes to figure out whether a star system has any planets of a biome you're interested in are there without directly going there, which by the time you get to a freighter and frigate fleets should be a-okay imo

[marsh terrace]

So you think it'd be a good idea to remove the element that forces players to actually see more than just viridescent planets? The point is that you find interesting things on the way (scale planets, black holes, etc), the game would be half as interesting if you could just scan and go.

[supple warren]

That's basically more or less what people already do

The only way you remove the scan and go is if you remove the planet info from orbit altogether

Like I said, folks already just warp system to system scanning each planet and bouncing to the next system if they don't find the biome they like

[tired basin]

Yeah not limiting a players ability to find a planet that they actually want isnt destroying the foundation of exploration.

[supple warren]

I do understand where you're coming from, but the problem you're describing is already here

[marsh terrace]

If you remove that, you don't get to see all the interesting things between. All about instant gratification innit.

[supple warren]

They already won't be seeing many of the things in-between if they're hyperfocused on finding a specific sort of planet

[marsh terrace]

Then they're doing it wrong.

[supple warren]

Yeah, so it's a player problem, adding a QOL feature to enhance expanded exploration doesn't change that all that much

[marsh terrace]

It doesn't enhance exploration, it just neuters it.

[tired basin]

"Theyre playing the game wrong" is not a good argument.

[supple warren]

No it doesn't

If it neutered it, then the current planet info from orbit after scan neutered it ages ago