nms-the-future

[lilac crane]

Why deal with more menus?

Or is this a classic case of not wanting base building shoved?

Because for base building, I want to be able to show off my ships.

[storm barn]

Two big things: first they need to fix the bug where black freighters can’t change colors, second they should add an actual trading terminal to use on the anomaly. I hate having to rely on trust. Despite the honesty of the people I’ve met so far, people are less likely to trade with me if they think they’ll be scammed

[lilac crane]

How would you create a market system that works for the majority of players, not just the top 10% of NMS?

A common problem is balancing things based on the highest possible faucets, which often leaves out players trying to make an honest income.

[storm barn]

I’ll use war frame for reference. There won’t be a system, just a trade between two players. One player puts their stuff in a slot and another player puts their stuff in their slot. Then if both players agree on the price they will confirm the trade and if both players confirm, the trade will occur

[brave plinth]

The player trade system thats used in games like Borderlands would honestly be a massive improvement over the strictly item transfer system we have now.
Basically, both parties would agree to the terms of the trade before accepting.

[storm barn]

Exactly. Technically people can still get scammed this way but at least they would confirm the trade of the thing they want, even if they end up giving much more than it’s worth

But this isn’t necessarily a bad thing. For example if a wealthy player needs nanites desperately they can trade a valuable worth millions in exchange for something worth the nanites they need

[lilac crane]

The thing is, you need to do a whole bunch of balancing in order to avoid both deflation and inflation.

That needs to be done first.

Because you guys are basically suggesting HG to setup a player market.

[storm barn]

That’s the thing, it won’t be needed. Players will only trade items, not currency. Then the players can take those valuables and sell them to the galactic trade terminals or cronos or whoever for the units/nanites. I might not be understanding you well so let me know if I’m missing the point. But I don’t think any of that would be necessary

[lilac crane]

Anything can be a currency, so yes, they will be trading in currency.

Money == indirect bartering.

[brave plinth]

Adding an actual player market isnt going to hurt anything. The current player market is absolutely ruined do the amount of "generosity" in the Anomaly. Providing an option for the players who want an honest trade market would allow those players to trade honestly instead of the hobo economy thats currently being promoted.

[sharp widget]

the only thing keeping the economy remotely in check at the moment, is the 32bit balance cap.

[lilac crane]

So players will pick up a currency using items. If nanites are more valuable, players will use salvaged tech. If units are more valuable, players will use stasis devices. Otherwise, they may pick up something weird, like storm crystals.

But inflation and deflation can happen to anything.

[storm barn]

Well yeah but that’s totally situational and depending on individual players. A system won’t be needed to regulate it. It would just depend on player preference, just like it does now

[supple warren]

No, it's just that you give folks a few more ships, they'll want even more, and more, and so either you give them a lot of storage for them, or you keep dealing it piecemeal adding landing pad after landing pad to accommodate until it just looks silly.

Plus, having to swap ships all the time to manage their inventories is just annoying, so it's also a QOL improvement to have a ship management terminal for shuffling their inventories without having to constantly hop in and out of ships.

Same time, it doesn't have to be strictly swapping between them. If you have a ship already deployed it could work a bit like it can now when you pick up a crashed ship.

Keep the old ship out there while you've switched to operating the other.

[brave plinth]

I also think the ship management terminal is a solid idea. I've previously mentioned an idea where the player could save ship designs in the terminal and palette swap a current ship with a different design (seed) they've acquired from exploration (requires same ship type though). This adds a bit more customization to ships without outright giving custom building ships (which would undoubtedly ruin the community's efforts in the Coord Exchange).

An alternative idea would be to add "garages" at bases which could allow an additional ship (per base computer) to be stored there. Im not a huge fan of this idea though, because players have a tendency to pack rat things and forget what they have. I feel like the seed replacement idea is a little more balanced and clean. Also, it would totally fix the "my ship looks totally different now, help me!" bug.

[supple warren]

Garages as you describe them would also have the problem of being planetbase bound, which is already annoying enough with geobays, for those that prefer freighter bases.

[brave plinth]

100% agreed there. It would be a horrible amount of management for the player to deal with

[storm barn]

I prefer to keep my freighter relatively empty because it will spawn more NPC ships

[supple warren]

So a terminal could be a good way for you to keep those open without having to limit the amount of ships you claim

[lilac crane]

I would rather have a hobo economy than an economy that doesn't work for most people.

[supple warren]

Given how much trouble HG has with handling a non-player economy, I can't imagine enabling a player-driven economy working much better tbh

[lilac crane]

It absolutely is going to hurt things. Its going to hurt the already broken balance of the game.

[supple warren]

However, I think improvements to exchanging stuff could be made without much regard for player economies. A simple step would be allowing you to disable or set player transfers to friends/team members only to prevent flooding inventories.

[storm barn]

I think the ship terminal and the player trade terminals are different conversations

[lilac crane]

I do agree there. I want to try and make things work for people.

[supple warren]

for sure, i'm bouncing between convos, lol

[lilac crane]

Adding landing pads is the same as a garage in my idea.

[brave plinth]

Not sure why adding a player trade menu would hurt anything. I just keep hearing entirely nay saying out of this channel and its making me wonder what the point of it is now. The game economy is broken.
What is the fix?
Someone here wants to be able to trade with players. Currently they can barely do that. That means the current economy doesnt work for them.

What is the fix?

[lilac crane]

I want people to be careful with making such broad changes.

Are you willing to be careful?

[brave plinth]

And yeah, i already turned off multiplayer a month ago becausr the current player economy doesnt work for me either.

[lilac crane]

If so, how would you design an economy that works for most people?

[brave plinth]

Thats not a broad change. Its just adding a new feature

[lilac crane]

It is a broad change.

It is changing this community and the way the game is balanced as we know it.

[brave plinth]

Ok. You arent explaining why an optional update to player trading is broad and i can tell you and I will continue to disagree.

[lilac crane]

It makes every single part of this game quantified. And add more competitiveness in a pretty cooperative community.

[brave plinth]

Its optional.

Gift away all you want.
Join a player at their base and dupe to eternity. Im just suggesting a player trade menu for those of us that want to trade.
Dont partake if you dont want to

[lilac crane]

9999 AI == 20 storm crystals.
10 Salvaged tech == 30 Storm crystals
9999 Magnetized Ferrite == 1 storm crystal.

That is what a player market may look like.

Or Duping will absolutely crash the market and people will demand action from HG.

[brave plinth]

If AI had a balanced value, it would be worth 1 rusted metal unless someone needed 1000 of it suddenly

[supple warren]

I think part of the issue with player exchange at the moment, more than economy broken ono, is that there's no real agreement on any exchange. So I agree with Toasty's basic idea which is similar to a lot of basic trade systems in other games.

Folks put their stuff in slots, consider the exchange, agree if they like it.

Add to this options to then flat out disable exchange requests or limit to friends/team members, and that's already a small but important/useful improvement

[brave plinth]

Thats exactly what ive wanted as well.
Im struggling to understand why thats a bad thing

Yes. Let me disable player transfers at the very least. Im sick of JUNK everytime i go to the Anomaly whether or not someone thinks theyre being generous

[supple warren]

On that same note, an option to disable friend requests would be nice, lol

People can troll with that too easily, disrupting NPC interactions and even trying to leave the Anomaly

[lilac crane]

I agree.

If we are talking player markets, the game requires balance fixes first. Because the way markets work, every exchange is weighted by how much both parties can get. Everyone connected will be impacted.

[supple warren]

I think at the moment the most that is being discussed is very basic trade/exchange improvements tho

[lilac crane]

Exchange systems is doing exactly that, setting up a player market.

Some MMOs don't even have an auction system, just rely on player trading.

And I can bet that they will have websites for tracking prices.

[supple warren]

and MMO economies are often notoriously broken but ppl still appreciate the ability to exchange junk

for every outspoken trader mad about broken economies, there's some quieter folks just happy to be able to share stuff with friends

Frankly, we already have the exchange system in place right now. It's just clunky.

[lilac crane]

That's why I want to exercise caution.

[supple warren]

Too late, it's already broken, lol

[lilac crane]

Let's design a system for friends then. Don't put it at the anomaly.

[supple warren]

The system is already there, it's just localized

[lilac crane]

Is it?

[supple warren]

And clunky, and you can't agree to exchanges, lol

Yeah, the resource transfer between people is just a clunkier version of an exchange system

You don't see it often because it's clunky, but you can occasionally see people offering to give people stasis devices or some high value item in exchange for void eggs or whatever in chat over in #no-mans-sky

Alongside some other stuff, it's infrequent but it's already happening among some of the folks in the community

[lilac crane]

So, what if we put it at freighters and bases?

For freighters, your choice: Fixed hangar terminal or placable terminal?

[supple warren]

what, player exchange terminal thing?

[lilac crane]

Yeah

[supple warren]

If it was base-related I'd say installable/placeable

[lilac crane]

Oh, I thought you had a problem with placing these terminals yourself.

Since you dislike base building.

[supple warren]

Most of my issues with basebuilding are:
-Forced planetside bases for tutorial/story.
-Clunky/inflexible building system.
-No portability for base designs.
-Freighter base neglect.

[lilac crane]

I agree that there are issues, that need fixing. I don't like freighter base neglect either.

[supple warren]

One thing I think might help reduce freighter base neglect would be some new freighter types that have the base area exposed, but in a way that looks right with the freighter, so folks can show off their freighter bases not only from within but without

It strikes me that a major part of the reason planetside bases get so much attention is the ease with which they're shown off.

Meanwhile freighter bases could be mistaken for planetside bases 'cause you can only see the interiors.

[brave plinth]

Im interested to hear the suggestions on freighter base changes. As it is currently, my freighter has a couple refiners, a teleporter, and a terminal, because I honestly don't like building in the freighter at all.
That being said, i dont want them taken away either becaude i understand some players love them.

[supple warren]

Yeah, I'm a freighter no-planet base type, 'cause it fits more with my nomadic/explorer playstyle.

The simplest changes I'd like are those that put them on similar footing to the planetside bases. So things like a freighter alternative to geobays, so you can unlock exocraft aboard your freighter to then deploy through the orbital materialiser down on planets.

Better uses for frigates that enable them to net you resources & such similar to how extractors/AMUs can planetside. However, also having an active side to directing frigates because it doesn't make sense to treat a frigate with a crew like a differently shaped extractor.

[lilac crane]

It helps that the cubic rooms aren't the same as on planet bases.

[supple warren]

Ngl when they first announced freighter basebuilding changes alongside introducing frigates I was tentatively excited, until I saw the results

[lilac crane]

I don't like not being able to raise the sealing, however.

I always go for 2+ sealing because I find 1 high too krammed.

[supple warren]

You can build additional floors in freighters, but it no longer allows stacking the cube-ish rooms? I haven't tried that in forever

[lilac crane]

Nope, cant stack

[supple warren]

I've largely avoided freighter bases since the revisions broke them for awhile...

[lilac crane]

Exocraft Garage: Unlocks use of the exocraft using the materializer, or a system's summoning stations. Displays a hologram of the chosen exocraft.

[supple warren]

yup, made that sort of suggestion a few times now

most folks just get confused and tell me, "but we already have the orbital materialiser" tho, lmao

The simplest solution really would be to tweak the orbital materialiser to have a panel wherein you unlock the different exocraft for like salvaged data or whatever

And it displays faded holograms of the exocraft that light up once you've unlocked them for use

Another good touch would be to have another option at the panel to manage the exocraft, so you could handle their different inventories from one menu, similar to the ship terminal I described earlier

[lilac crane]

This also brings up the "other player freighter already in system" issue.

If a player's freighter is in the system, you should be able to summon exocraft if your freighter contains an orbital materializer, regardless of if its in the system or not.

[supple warren]

Yeah, maybe treat the other player's as like a network extender for your own, lol

[lilac crane]

Don't make your players dependent on another player's orbital materializer, so just check if another player's freighter is in the system.

[brave plinth]

Prereq for the Orbital Materializer is the Exocraft Summoning Station, which was the essential blueprint during the weekend nexus missions

[supple warren]

Speaking of, just what is the point of the summoning station not being portable tech?

[brave plinth]

...the Exocraft Summoning Station is portable...?

Actually, all the geobays are portable

[supple warren]

Is it now? You can just pop it back in your inventory?

Without deconstructing?

[brave plinth]

Well, no but you can keep the 2 or 3 materials needed

[supple warren]

Because there's a difference.

[lilac crane]

Nobody wants to be angry just because another player doesn't have an orbital materializer.

[supple warren]

Yeah, then it's not portable.

[brave plinth]

Its not like a signal booster. It doesnt need a base computer though

[supple warren]

Portable tech is a specific thing in NMS. It's like the signal booster or save station.

[brave plinth]

Its portable, this is just an argument of semantics that i wont get into

[supple warren]

No it's not.

[lilac crane]

I like a base item summoning station, but there should very much be a player or ship tech for this.

Even if it costs fuel.

[brave plinth]

If you can build it without a base computer, then its in the portable build menu. End of story

[supple warren]

I'm pointing out there's a specific gameplay mechanic that defines portability of tech in NMS.

It's the ability to pick it up without deconstructing it.

[brave plinth]

Yes, and its in the portable build menu. Not continuing because this is stupid

[supple warren]

🤦‍♀️

[brave plinth]

Its not an inventory item. Thats what you are saying

[supple warren]

Yes. And it should be.

[brave plinth]

It is in the portable build menu, whether you like it or not.

[supple warren]

That is not what I mean when I talk about portability.

The build menu is the build menu

There is not a separate base build menu or field build menu, it's all the build menu, though the functionality does change when around a base computer or aboard a freighter.

[brave plinth]

Yes, and items that can be built without a base computer are effectively portable. The base mats are an ion battery and some plates ffs

[supple warren]

They are not.

[brave plinth]

For most of the geobays, they are

[supple warren]

By this logic, all bases are portable.

[brave plinth]

Alright, im done

Bye bye

Have fun being the king of semantics

[supple warren]

Says the one being picky about semantics

[brave plinth]

Players here cannot suggest anything in your presence without "but youre wrong though." Its exactly why i questioned how long this channel would stay alive.

[supple warren]

That's honestly less me lately and more Jappards tho

I only just recently popped back in here

[brave plinth]

This channel was a result of the negativity in #forever-archived-legacy. It now harbors the same attitude

[supple warren]

I've been agreeing with you lately tho?

Besides the immediate discussion anyway

On frigate changes, trade/exchanges, etc.

As well as improvements to difficulty

[gloomy hazel]

👀

[supple warren]

That said, I have been seeing some of what you say, and I've been trying to steer away from/around it too

Not sure about consensus, but I know I'd really love to see some weird changes & some general utility improvements to living ships.

In terms of utility, e.g.
-Ability to filter abandoned/uncharted star systems via installable antennae (similar to trade/conflict scanners in standard ships)
-Anomaly detector organ, so instead of having to buy anomaly detectors, you can pop into the quick menu and scan for anomalies. Would make upgrading living ships a bit smoother.
-Black hole resistance. They're strange creatures of the void, they should be resilient against its harshest phenomena. They should take no organ damage from black hole travel.

In terms of weirdness:
-If you leave the ship floating in space for a bit, have it start roaming about, similar to fauna on planets when you ride them. Where the living ship takes you, who knows! 😛

Like a freighter shipyard? Could be really cool!

Reminds me of my wish to be able to repair crashed freighters as another way to get one. Would also give something to pour resources from base(s) into.

[lilac crane]

Freighter shipyards, in what way?

[lilac crane]

Don't mistake negativity from feedback/criticism.

[supple warren]

I dunno, I presume they mean something similar to shipbuilding requests, but with freighters, so may not be a full building, maybe another terminal, but shipyard would be cool to see, lol

[visual cloak]

cave update when

[lilac crane]

Cave update, in what way?

[visual cloak]

-remove planetary depth limit, allowing more cavernous, deeper caves (and oceans)

-a multitude of new cave biomes

-more interesting ways to explore underground (think Deep Rock Galactic)

-underground hidden dungeons

-unique fauna that only spawn in caves

[plucky lodge]

I mean being able to get freighter building parts at places like the Anomaly, like a small room, a door, etc that you see on derelict freighters

@supple warren

[lilac crane]

I could see a cave update, but I do want the cave to be connected to the above ground biome.

[visual cloak]

both ways

it would be cool if caves could sometimes have some kind of connection with the main above ground biome, though it would also be interesting to find planets with drastically different ones

it's been mentioned here, but cold, desolate ice worlds with no life, but once you dig or find a cave, you find a lush forest with fauna

[lilac crane]

Fine by me.

[visual cloak]

surprised we don't have more heavily iceberg-like biomes

we have small iceberg-like assets, though that doesn't really hit the spot

[lilac crane]

We haven't see an ice layer above water either.

[visual cloak]

arctic planets do have that ice ground texture, though it's not like what you'd think a frozen lake or ocean would look like

has a lot of texture and bumps. it is nice though

i love the crisp edges of this iceberg, which i feel terrain and mountains in general tend to lack.

[lilac crane]

I love the transparancy of the ice. You can see the water underneath.

Not common in the wild, you can have transparant and nontransparent versions.

[supple warren]

aah, I'm guessing you already know you can get some derelict freighter parts through exploring them, yeah?

But in general other ways to get freighter base parts & more would be cool

[plucky lodge]

I am aware, I almost have all blueprints, but I am meaning parts as in the doors on them along with other components like a small room or smth

[lilac crane]

Can we put some more information of the ship HUD onto UI panels? Not a fan of fake panels.

If a panel doesn't display information, what is it doing there?

[supple warren]

~style~

[lilac crane]

Style needs to be not over substance.

[slow hound]

An update where you introduce different... sizes, types of ships. We could pilot frigates or battleships or whatever else. It would be cool to have a ship that you pilot around and control turrets and stuff from. A battleship could have a camera independent of the ship's orientation, and you can pilot each one. you could even park ships inside of other ships, like a frigate.

Also more exotic ships would be pretty cool

[storm barn]

NMS already managed to introduce star destroyer and war hammer vessel replicas. I’d say if it was easy enough they should just grab the rights to recreate the star destroyer and clone wars venator

I know it’s unlikely but just a thought. Some famous ships from other scifis would be great

[timid summit]

Quadruple star systems. (Yes they're real). Planets closer to star =hotter, planets farther from star= colder.

MULTI. CREW . STARSHIPS

[nocturne kraken]

I like that idea

I always loved traveling in the freighter with friends, would be cool to do the same for starships

[lilac crane]

I was thinking Multicrew frigates myself. It should be more than big enough to be managed with 4 players.

[timid summit]

Yeah. It also sucks that you cant anything at all in frigates

And every star looks the same. Can we have different star sizes?

[lilac crane]

Coordinate Chips, turn locations into a giftable/tradeable item. Use it to get the location on the map or to go to the location using the portal system.

[sharp widget]

specifically, a classic saucer variant. might be better at hovering even (i.e. have a minimum speed of 0 close to the planet)

[sharp widget]

I think the colossus exovehicle at least should also get "turret" seats for friends.

And Im with @lilac crane wrt multi person ships - I think flyable frigates should take that role.

[loud frigate]

It all good having ship, but need to be more combat. The pirates ain’t enough. 😦

I feel lack of aggression and combat in the game. 
Need to add more thing that are hostile and will come and attack you.

[storm barn]

Beaches

[bitter anchor]

What if we could fight something lurking in a ||Black Hole||

[copper dawn]

Black hole then would be need to be remade. As now we use it only to fast travel closer to some area of Center of the Galaxy. Unless you mean something like Witch space in Elite. 🤔

Or some monster being in Black Hole and we would need to destroy it before proceeding further? 🤔

[steady schooner]

I personally, always name it as wormhole instead of blackhole lol

[copper dawn]

Makes more sense.

[kindred hearth]

would love to see physics in this game

[lapis falcon]

Same

Water physics

Idk if that’s already in the game

More water stuff

[tardy wave]

Water doesn’t do much currently

[kindred hearth]

it kills you

and has clams and things that kill you

[lapis falcon]

kill

[red schooner]

nocturnal animals/animals on a day/night cycle? anyone?

[tardy wave]

But the land has stuff that kills you too so it’s not much different

[red schooner]

i want bats-n-stuff

[tardy wave]

Don’t these already exist?

[red schooner]

idk

[deft lily]

^

[kindred hearth]

physics like astrophysics

[deft lily]

They do

[lapis falcon]

Lights

[kindred hearth]

angular momentum

velocity

terminal velocity

[lapis falcon]

That actually light up your base

[deft lily]

Uh.

[red schooner]

better looking ships for pictures?

[kindred hearth]

gravity and atmospheric drag updates

[deft lily]

This is no man's sky sir. Not no man's physics

[kindred hearth]

yeah well

[lapis falcon]

See npc’s on planet

[tardy wave]

Brighter lights would be nice

[lapis falcon]

Like whole villages

[kindred hearth]

explain how they use tritium as a fuel

when tritium is h3

[lapis falcon]

More quests

[kindred hearth]

used as warheads

in nuclear bombs

[red schooner]

frieghters that can actually move and help you against pirates and sentinels

[lapis falcon]

Nukes

[red schooner]

chill with the bombs

[kindred hearth]

nuclear thrusters is a thing but

its consecutive boosts

like explosion, explosion, explosion

not a constant thrust

[red schooner]

more use for quicksilver?

[deft lily]

alright

[lapis falcon]

1, lights that actually light up your base
2, water stuff
3, villages. Whole questline, small story. Learn about the history of artemis, and || apollo, null, nada and the yoda gek||

[kindred hearth]

villages

lol

[tardy wave]

We don’t really know how the pulse engine works. It could just be a huge explosion that propels you forward, and you keep going because of physics.

[lapis falcon]

Could be cool tho

[kindred hearth]

when a nuke is detonated

it tries to expand

[lapis falcon]

Kaboom?

[kindred hearth]

because the explosion creates momentum

it creates a shockwave and a force

[red schooner]

if there are waterfalls/ rivers with secrets im rebuying this game 150000000 times

[kindred hearth]

that pushes things away.

bursts like this can be powerful enough to lift a rocket

[lapis falcon]

More water stuff

Would be interesting

[kindred hearth]

i dont know anyone who even

cares or uses the water

[red schooner]

ight lets compile a list:

better water stuff

better =physics

[lapis falcon]

lights that light up your base

[red schooner]

more animals/plants

[kindred hearth]

there are lights

[lapis falcon]

Caves, more better. Alive caves

[red schooner]

better river animals

[lapis falcon]

They don’t reslly light up your base

[red schooner]

NUKESSSSS

[kindred hearth]

why do you care so much about the water

and the lights are fine

[red schooner]

because think abt how pretty waterfalls would be

[lapis falcon]

Why do you care so much about physics

lol

[red schooner]

^

[kindred hearth]

because unlike lights physics are important in a game about space travel

besides there are already lights

[lapis falcon]

Could be used against

you

[tardy wave]

It’s no man’s sky not physics simulator. Movement works well enough already, just like lights and water.

[kindred hearth]

its not about movement

its about gravity

its about momentum and physics that are only realistic

[red schooner]

@tardy wave here watch this and tell me you want all of these annoying things

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rqnb-m8ogjk

[kindred hearth]

like how can a planet closer to the systems sun be freezing

and a planet further away be a hot

[lapis falcon]

water

Kaboom stuff

Cave

[tardy wave]

What would gravity be doing other than movement?

[kindred hearth]

pulling stuff down instead of leaving your ship float in space

[tardy wave]

When something goes down, that’s called movement

[kindred hearth]

because if your ship can float above in the same space for ages

why does your character abide by gravity

but your ship doesnt

[lapis falcon]

I don’t want to cause a fight but

Water

[kindred hearth]

yeah waters cool but

its not like people go to water planets

and hit the jackpot

[lapis falcon]

No, more water stuff

[kindred hearth]

full water planets just suck

[tardy wave]

Better water would be physics too

[red schooner]

@tardy wave think about how long that would take to code. also it would ruin a lot of solar systems. that time could go into more cared abt stuff like fun stuff

[lapis falcon]

Rivers, waterfalls

[kindred hearth]

better water is but its more than that

[lapis falcon]

Water, rivers, waterfalls, deeper oceans etc

[kindred hearth]

anything except water

[red schooner]

hear me out: this makes everyone happy: water but with good physics

[lapis falcon]

Why

[lapis falcon]

Damm you’re right

[tardy wave]

Deeper land would be cool

[lapis falcon]

With gravity

[kindred hearth]

well

water physics

[lapis falcon]

le go

[kindred hearth]

means that

if you want water physics to be a thing

a planet needs to have a moon

[red schooner]

imagine tides and waves

and tidal waves

[lapis falcon]

tsunami’s

Or idk how to spell that

[red schooner]

yeah

[kindred hearth]

tsunamis happen because of earthquakes

[red schooner]

and earthquakes happen occasionally

earthquake event!!!!!

[lapis falcon]

Not everything has to be realistic

[kindred hearth]

what would a tsunami even do

[red schooner]

also they happen when sand worms come

[lapis falcon]

Meteor impact

[red schooner]

wash away all the animals

[kindred hearth]

and you

[red schooner]

and stuff

[steady schooner]

blowing planet would be epic

[kindred hearth]

and your base?

and your ship

[lapis falcon]

Rip my friend pigeonmaster

[red schooner]

you have to jetpack over it

[kindred hearth]

jetpack over it

[red schooner]

there would be ways to avid it

[lapis falcon]

Bunker

[kindred hearth]

tsunamis are huge

[red schooner]

im just putting out ideas 😦

[kindred hearth]

jetpack has small tanks

[gloomy hazel]

A way to destroy the core of what controls the centinels on each planet so you can destroy them or lower their amount

Independently on each planet

[kindred hearth]

something like that would be pretty cool ig

[red schooner]

someone has to send this convo to hello games

[lapis falcon]

Cybertron idk how to spell that

[kindred hearth]

no they dont

[lapis falcon]

Transformers planet

[kindred hearth]

transformers planet

[red schooner]

better emotes?

[steady schooner]

blowing planet, 100 meters tsunami, and cthulhu-sized creature

[kindred hearth]

cthuli is an anomaly you can find

[red schooner]

@steady schooner we have sandwoms

[kindred hearth]

something like that

[gloomy hazel]

there's some anomalies that are scary

yesterday I found a big dinosaur skull or something

[kindred hearth]

yeah

[red schooner]

i want to be able to like high five and stuhh

or fist bump

[kindred hearth]

high five

[red schooner]

yea

[kindred hearth]

why

[gloomy hazel]

the other day i found a glowing thing with many tentacles or something similar

[steady schooner]

and we need a brrrtt gun

[lapis falcon]

Cities

[red schooner]

turrets?

for fighting sentinels

[lapis falcon]

would be cool

[gloomy hazel]

Cities would probably be a lot for older gen

[lapis falcon]

Like ark

[kindred hearth]

why would you fight sentinels

[red schooner]

and shooting on friehgters

[kindred hearth]

what would the freighters shoot

[red schooner]

freighter fights would be so fun

[gloomy hazel]

Lasers

[red schooner]

nukes

[lapis falcon]

why would you want physics

[kindred hearth]

freighters already have turrets

[red schooner]

they shoot nukes

[lapis falcon]

yessir

would be cool tho

[kindred hearth]

what would be more important in a game about space

[lapis falcon]

Like a wave system

[steady schooner]

a gender

[kindred hearth]

physics that are literally everything

or the fucking transformer planet

[red schooner]

@kindred hearth we want a combo. not just one ir the other

[kindred hearth]

you wouldnt even find the transformer planet

[lapis falcon]

You can do it solo or with people

[gloomy hazel]

wdym by transformer planet

[kindred hearth]

there are like more than trillions

[steady schooner]

and the fooking living capital ships

[kindred hearth]

idk ask alpha

living capital ships

wouldo be

[lapis falcon]

Build a base with turrets, walls etc

[kindred hearth]

weird but

concieveable

[red schooner]

@gloomy hazel someone was talking abt transformer planet s earlier lmao

[lapis falcon]

Waves would be cool not gonna lie

[red schooner]

i think it was pigeon

[kindred hearth]

yeah it was alpha

[gloomy hazel]

Waves

[lapis falcon]

I was meaning

[gloomy hazel]

Idk

[lapis falcon]

Metalic p,anets

[wheat acorn]

Alright cleared out the spam; please keep this channel on topic as stated in the channel description.

[blissful marsh]

more dakka

[lilac crane]

Let's get back on topic. How about wind power for bases?

Small amount of power in calm weather, large amount of power during storms.

Good for planets with activated stellar materia.

[dapper thunder]

^^^

I like that idea

[lilac crane]

Should work well for the smaller updates.

We don't have too much specialization of bases, so how about a way to send power to other bases? This allows for creating power production facilities.

Though, that might become unbalanced with S-class electromagnetic gen.

[stable mauve]

Not sure if wind power per se could work for all types of hazards/weather conditions (ex. perhaps it wouldn’t make that much sense for rain) but harvesting power from hazards is a great idea

And yeah different types of outposts could be nice

Or at least implementing interactions between bases

[lilac crane]

Everyone builds bases on planets that don't or barely storm, except for AI. If a planet is too stormy, I even avoid landing there. Something needs to be done to either mitigate or make it more of an attractive value proposition.

[stable mauve]

Yeah generating power from hazards/storms based on their strength could be a nice incentive to build on stormy planets

Perhaps too much of a stretch but perhaps increase the speed of refiners/extractors during storms?

Could be op because the resources are activated tho

[lilac crane]

That's way too much of a stretch, we need another way.

Well, Activated stellar materia are better for selling directly than for converting to chrom. metal

Hazard Harvester: Based on the hazard amount and type, generates fuel for upgrade modules. Requires power.

[stable mauve]

Not sure what fuel for upgrade modules means

[lilac crane]

You know the hazard prot. Modules? Those

[stable mauve]

Ohh right

Yeah good idea

[tardy wave]

Hazards seem like they could be a great way to generate power, and they would make some sense especially with heat and radiation hazards.

Although with the route they went with other hazard-based stuff (mainly hazard protection) it might make more sense to need a different machine for each type of hazard.

[lilac crane]

Why?

[tardy wave]

Why what?

[stable mauve]

Indeed

I was suggesting that as well

Something like a Seebeck generator could work for cold as well

[lilac crane]

Why a different machine?

[tardy wave]

It’s mainly because they separated other hazard-related things into multiple types, but also from a logical standpoint you would need different machines to harvest different conditions.

[lilac crane]

Not what I'm thinking of from a gameplay standpoint.

[tardy wave]

From a gameplay standpoint there’s a precedent for it because you need a different type of hazard protection module for each hazard.

[lilac crane]

It's not the precedent that counts, its about simplifying and trading complexity for depth.

[tardy wave]

I was just saying separating it is what they would most likely do based on what they’ve done before. I would also like it to be simpler, but I was just pointing out that it wouldn’t make as much sense based on their strategy with the game.

[supple warren]

Maybe make visibility less garbage for a start...

[tardy wave]

You just need some windshield wipers on your helmet. That would solve all of your problems.

[lilac crane]

lol

[visual cloak]

what if dead bugs and dirt could accumulate on our ship's wind shield and we had to clean it to enhance visibility

jk

though i do kinda wish our ships would become weathered over time

i want a rusty ol' bucket

[lilac crane]

Generate some starships with a rust skin, problem solved.

[visual cloak]

hmmmm? you can do that?

if a ship customization update comes, maybe we'll be have a scale to go from immaculate to rusty garbage bucket

[lilac crane]

You can have starships procgen with a random skin, I don't see why not.

[visual cloak]

sorta like a 'randomize' option

[lilac crane]

No, you still have to find them.

Though, this game needs starship transmogification.

[visual cloak]

sad that we don't have black ships

looks so good when people get the missing ship texture bug

but yeah, i agree on rewarding the player with ship customization options through exploration and not just letting us customize any item for free through a store

(as well as keeping some stuff from ever becoming attainable in a customization store)

[deft prawn]

I am still a fan of my idea of unlocking and building ship parts based on rarity

[visual cloak]

could be good. would also be neat to actually find ship parts out in the wild with common/rare/very rare properties

[bitter anchor]

I wonder what amalgamation of a ship you can come up with if you just combine together all the best parts

Plus, to build the starship part, you need to use those trading commodities like neural ducts, enormous metal cogs, maybe even stasis devices

[visual cloak]

the best thing about nms is that everything isn’t always beautiful

things can be ugly, according to taste

planets, ships, aliens, etc

[lilac crane]

True.

[visual cloak]

so it might be good if you could combine any ship part

[lilac crane]

In a way, if everything is beautiful, nothing is. Your brain re-adjusts.

[visual cloak]

yep

[lilac crane]

Not everything has to look beautiful, it can look cool, intimidating, rich, there is something to be said about style.

[visual cloak]

ugly planets can be fun to explore

[lilac crane]

Indeed.

I was thinking that a trash biome can be cool to explore. Don't make it encompass an entire planet, part of a planet is fine.

[visual cloak]

something i’ve wanted for a long time

closest we got to that is one of the exotic boring planets (which are a bit better now)

[wise widget]

hoping gek customization get some love soon, not to mention that the Gek helmet can be used by geek XD so weird that it cant...

[lilac crane]

Ah, those crazy Gek, can’t wear helmets even if they are designed for them.

[lilac crane]

How about a Pump? Basically the ocean equivalent to the atmospheric harvester, except actually useful.

Depending on the planet, you can get Di-hydrogen, Tritium, Chlorine, Dioxite, Deuterium and Ammonia.

[supple warren]

would opt for more interesting gadgets/gizmos if it were between those and automated gathering devices, personally, but 🤷‍♀️

kind of wonder if they intend to expand on powered devices, since we're talkin' base device stuff to some degree anyway

[lilac crane]

I was thinking making it a portable.

[supple warren]

that raises the question now...are AMUs/atmo harvesters portable? They're field equipment, for sure, but besides that

[lilac crane]

Atmos is true portable.

[supple warren]

Still cracks me up that this is portable, but summon stations aren't:
https://nomanssky.gamepedia.com/Marine_Shelter

[lilac crane]

lol

[supple warren]

Sort of interesting that a terrestrial shelter isn't also available, but I guess that's where the ship or digging out caves comes in

[lilac crane]

I do think that gatherers should cost resources to gather, I am even considering making hydroponics and biodomes cost carbon or nitrogen, but that may just be a little too much.

Though, perhaps you can inject carbon or nitrogen to grow biodomes faster? Sounds like the right balance.

[supple warren]

I thought hydroponics/planters already did require some fuel or something? Did they scrap that at some point?

I do seem to remember there being bugs with it

[lilac crane]

Nope, hydroponics doesn't require fuel.

They changed that.

The middle solution is the Fertilizer tech that makes it grow faster when you charge it with Carbon, Condensed Carbon and Nitrogen. Without it, it grows as normal.

[fiery comet]

hydroponics require power?

[lilac crane]

Yes, except in freighter bases.

[fiery comet]

and in powered prefabs

[lilac crane]

No, prefabs have their own powergrid. They do require power, and this parallel power grid is powered by the normal grid connection.

[fiery comet]

well yeah the difference is the freighter has an engine

[lilac crane]

Ofc.

For power, fission/fusion are common suggestions, but do we really want power gens that consume resources?

I mean, most base builders just put a base there and forget about it.

[fiery comet]

maybe more power options, it's either find an em spot or build a bunch of solar panels and batteries

getting resources becomes more pointless when every base just has power

[lilac crane]

More consumers and more producers, you mean?

[fiery comet]

yeah, with better ratios than the bio fuel reactors. maybe introduce geothermal, wind and tidal energy to accompany em

[supple warren]

It's kinda baffling bases are still so low-integration/low-utility, outside of extraction/production, which is strictly passive.

Although, considering the majority of points of interest are largely the same, i.e. no environmental integration/awareness, I guess it's not too surprising

[fiery comet]

yeah it would be nice if they could change that, building bases is fun, but other than passive farms they have no purpose

other than looking cool

[supple warren]

Except looking cool is an exercise in frustration for the most part, considering the most interesting looking designs often involve glitchbuilding

Speaking of this, it occurred to me that I think the initial basebuilding tutorial itself arguably teaches basebuilding the wrong way.

Not in terms of when it occurs, or how it occurs (e.g. should it happen during a storm to teach the shelter utility of them), but just in terms of parts provided. The basic building parts are just flat out broken in terms of scale and shelter provision.

The natural inclination, I think, for many builders is to create a small space two tiles/plates high, because a room built a single tile high feels cramped. However, building two tiles high immediately hits the shelter breach problem, because seemingly no one at HG felt cramped building single-tile high rooms...Or couldn't figure out a good solution to dynamically scaling the shelter space provided.

So, you're immediately teaching folks to build bases with basic parts that you'll immediately hit weird issues with in terms of providing shelter, so then it's like, "Wait, what are these good for then?"

Outside of looks, until they get extractors & generators going or teleporters, they're going to be little more than ramshackle throwaways. Get teleporters unlocked, and they're at least a crude bookmarking system.

[fiery comet]

yeah the rules of enclosed spaces are pretty weird, I didn't realize about the height limit until I did a massive glitch build on a stormy planet, it was kinda sad to walk into the big sealed structure and still get hit by the storms

they also don't really teach you how throw away bases can be, it feels like your first base is a home base but its really not

[supple warren]

Yeah, the tutorial, at least last I went through it, just keeps going & going with it

So you get some folks that keep following it, veering away from the Atlas or Artemis Path

[fiery comet]

it starts to just throw parts at you and it's up to you to use them

[supple warren]

Although, I think they may have corrected that at some point...? 🤔

Anyway, all the rambling above was just a way to get around to saying...I think the basebuilding tutorial should start folks off with prefabs instead of basic parts.

[fiery comet]

a door tutorial would be real nice for new players lol so many people ask how they work

[supple warren]

The prefabs have their own quirks, without a doubt, but they're also more tried & true and you don't have to futz with some of the more advanced building techniques right away to get them working...Except for the damn door part, I guess.

Could correct that by reintroducing a prefab with at least one already working door, lol

Which honestly might be a great idea for the power system in general, to introduce folks to it. Give them some things already put together that they can take apart, so they can teach themselves how to build with the power system.

[fiery comet]

they could add more uses to the switches and stuff, only use I've gotten out of them is for glitch building. they feel a little pointless other than for the odd cool thing someone does on youtube lol

[supple warren]

Everything I can think of to do with base power to make it more interesting essentially requires making planets more interesting so the devices powered in the base would have something to find or interact with on a planet, lol

[fiery comet]

that would be nice lol I could play for a few months again

[supple warren]

On top of that, though, some of what I'm thinking would probably require new systems & interfaces, sorta on the level of Bytebeat, to avoid them just being more passive junk

E.g. certain POIs have locked rooms that don't accept Atlas Passes, but you could analyse the lock pattern & return to base signals terminal or something, then run through a simple little puzzle mini-game to decrypt the pattern and create a key that works for that planet's POI side-rooms.

As a very crude off the cuff example, anyway

[fiery comet]

anything to break up the, press button, you're done, cycle lol its so boring

[supple warren]

Another odd idea might be to add some functionality to some currently iffy field tech like atmospheric harvesters, that might then link back to a base structure.

So say you add little details to the atmo harvester like that they monitor changes in wind speed, temp, ambient hazard levels. On their own, they operate as they always have, but once you build a weather monitoring station at a base & feed it the coordinates of your atmo harvesters, it starts compiling their disparate data to provide even more advance notice of incoming storms.

This would link to the exosuit, and maybe provide a readout in the analysis visor for storm ETA. (Although...Does it do that now? I feel like it might?)

Also to be clear, the climate monitoring stuff would probably just be totally faked. It'd just give more accurate ETAs based on number of Atmo Harvesters deployed, but it's just some nice in-world explanation for why/how they're being used.

[fiery comet]

I'm not aware of anything giving you storm eta currently but they would be a nice addition and linking it to other base parts would be cool. building something akin to the spinning radar at some abandoned settlements or an observatory

sad that the holoterminal only has story usage, could be an interesting interface between the ground and space stations, get quests and turn them in there maybe

[halcyon mason]

I want storms that aren’t dangerous, just an ambient rolling weather system, even on paradises

Or like, they might impact visibility or still have lightning and thunder

Give me cool looking sandstorms on desert planets

[supple warren]

Along similar lines, having cloud cover occur without an accompanying storm would be nice from time to time

[halcyon mason]

Also I feel like we’re missing out on potentially cool planet designs by not having electricity as a hazard type. Radiation can’t really account for highly electrically charged atmospheres, at least not entirely

[paper hatch]

good point

we need more frieghter and frigate designs maybe more ship designs as well

[halcyon mason]

On the low end you’d have Humming, Static and Fizzling planets, and on the high end you’d have Hypercharged, Fluorescent and Capacitor planets

They would have new resources like Nickel and Lithium used to create new upgrades to withstand that hazard

Their unique gimmick for storms would be free base electricity during the storm, batteries charge and everything gets free power

The upgrade recipes would be fun nods to real world battery tech. The first one would use Nickel and Cadmium, and the second uses Lithium and Poly Fibre

You’re basically making batteries 😛

[lilac crane]

That has been my main problem with base building for months.

[lilac crane]

Geothermal would take the spot of Electromagnetic, not much reason for it. Biofuel is deigned to be early on, effectively designed to stop using, but still insanely grindy. Not sure how Tidal would work.

[fiery comet]

EM could change to use lightning from constantly stormy planets or something, and tidal would be for under water bases since those parts are all separate already

[lilac crane]

Not a fan of breaking people's bases.

If you need to nerf them, decrease S or A electric hotspots.

[fiery comet]

doesn't have to be replaced either but high energy planets could gain power from the skies either way ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[lilac crane]

Just introduce a lightning rod.

[supple warren]

breaking bases wouldn't be an issue if they were portable 👀

[lilac crane]

No, such a change would mean re-doing bases entirely.

[halcyon mason]

Maybe each power type has advantages on different planet types too? Like, geothermal will always get at least SOME power on hot planets no matter where you put it, even outside of hotspots, biofuel runs for free on toxic planets (making it a possible replacement or augmentation for solar on toxic planets), stuff like that?

[fiery comet]

nothing wrong with redoing bases entirely, or just have legacy parts that once you remove they're gone

[lilac crane]

I prefer the carrot over the stick.

[lilac crane]

Why not a specific hazard block?

This is about blocks being reliable in what they do.

[halcyon mason]

I like the idea of biofuel getting an actual use by having it suck combustible toxins out of the air on toxic planets

But ONLY if placed outside

[supple warren]

if EM used lightning from electrically oriented planets, make bases portable, then any using EM could be relocated to those sorts of planets 🤷‍♀️

[fiery comet]

custom blue printing of bases that can be re deployed if you feed the blueprint and resources into a machine

[lilac crane]

I think such a change will backfire.

Make people use solar more.

[halcyon mason]

Same goes for the portable and personal refiners, they run for (nearly) free outdoors in poison atmospheres

Right now toxic planets are easily the lamest kind, ugly and not that useful resources

This would give them at least SOMETHING

[supple warren]

i think they look cool, at least sometimes

😛

[lilac crane]

I agree that hazards need something, but I disagree on the method.

[halcyon mason]

I wish they had more variety because every toxic planet I’ve been to, the ground looks like and sounds like literal crap when walked on

I should know, I spawned on one...

Every one I’ve seen has damp dung brown ground

More variety needed for sure

I can’t say I’ve even seen one with grass

Or moss or anything

[lilac crane]

The thing with bases being passive is that power consumers aren't that common or active either. You know, power feels kind of "slapped on".

[halcyon mason]

Let’s change it so inside of closed structures is only safe if power is at least nearby

Otherwise it behaves like a cave: no drain, but no replenishment either

[lilac crane]

To make power a bit more active, I would make the hazard protection and health stations not require fuel and just power. Each time you recharge, there is a power spike.

Closed structures only being safe with power nearby sounds pretty cool.

[fiery comet]

they'd have to change the basic structures to be powered then

[lilac crane]

No, just power the door.

When the doors are powered, it should act as a seal.

[halcyon mason]

There’s no reason to power doorways right now at all, if you only want a shelter

This would give a reason

Maybe makes the biofuel generator more useful too? 😉

[lilac crane]

The idea behind hazard protection stations being active would make open air bases more viable in other kinds of conditions other than nonhazard planets.

Biofuel just needs a ratio improvement.

[fiery comet]

oh like pass the power through anything that joins the door

a lot of basic doors don't require power right now either

[halcyon mason]

Yeah, would let you have exterior stations on extreme planets that you can use to top up while building outside

No having to duck inside and wait

[lilac crane]

That's one use.

[fiery comet]

wait don't you use the build camera in a 1x1 when on hazard planets?

[halcyon mason]

I don’t want to have to do that just to not die horribly

It feels jank

[lilac crane]

All doors in the room should be powered. The manual doors might require a separate power input.

[fiery comet]

basic doors don't need it so that would need to change

[lilac crane]

Otherwise, Hologram doors >>>>>> Manual.

[halcyon mason]

You know what else I want changed? Recharge hazard protection MUCH slower in your ship, to make cheesing tough planets using this method far less viable. Maybe it only charges at all if you’re airborne, costing you launch fuel or uranium, which are more precious than your hazpro recharge resources

[lilac crane]

Only in survival.

[supple warren]

rename Normal to Easy Mode 👀

[halcyon mason]

I still think a reduction of 50% rate in Normal would be fine, just Survival and Perma that don’t charge it at all on the ground

Doesn’t charge at all until you lift off, charges at 50% rate in the air, charges at 100% current rate once you’re in space

[lilac crane]

50% reduction just means people wait longer in their ships.

[halcyon mason]

Might make that method annoying enough for many to just pop sodium instead

Which is what they should be doing

Honestly I don’t see why launching to recharge can’t be in all modes

You probably have tons of sodium even early on

[lilac crane]

No, early on players struggle for sodium.

[fiery comet]

I found had not enough then all of sudden I had too much

[supple warren]

People get iffy about even slight difficulty adjustments to normal

[fiery comet]

also going to extreme planets on survival early, sodium won't cut it

but that's also fine as long as you don't start there

[supple warren]

Personally I don't mind making Normal make you pay more attention

[halcyon mason]

That’s fine, make them have to prepare

There’s nothing wrong with something being a bad idea

[supple warren]

If you pay even a minimum amount of attention you can almost sleepwalk through Normal as it is, lol

[fiery comet]

normal is creative but you gotta buy stuff

until money doesn't become a problem lol

[halcyon mason]

Extreme planets just aren’t threatening and the ship’s free recharge is why

[fiery comet]

i mean they are ignorable on survival once you get hazard upgrades too

[supple warren]

Well, that, and they're reliant primarily on hazard drain

The primary threats in NMS are passive environmental hazards, with the secondary threats being predators/horrors/pirates

[lilac crane]

I think there is a better way. Calling your ship shouldn't be that easy.

It should cost an ion battery at least.

[halcyon mason]

Maybe have some sort of “heat” system on the hazard protection in general, where free recharge happens slower the faster it drained

[fiery comet]

calling your ship costs fuel, no launcher fuel no summoning

[lilac crane]

Also fair.

[halcyon mason]

Recharger...

[fiery comet]

slow the recharger at least in survival

[lilac crane]

Or make hazard protection more expensive the more you recharge? Think: the system is going into overdrive.

[fiery comet]

fuel cost is already higher in survival

[halcyon mason]

What do you think of the other idea though? If your protection drained slowly it recharges quickly, and if it drained quickly it recharges slowly

[supple warren]

Or maybe have more stuff breach hazard protection & shields, making you pay more attention to hitpoints?

[lilac crane]

Not breach, but some animals should very much do "hazard damage"

[supple warren]

Hazard protection is so easily patched up tho

[lilac crane]

More a problem with hazard prot.

[fiery comet]

could work pretty good, like it wouldn't be a problem when in derelicts that way

[lilac crane]

I find breaching shields lazy.

[supple warren]

Yeah but making it more difficult to recharge is its own sort of annoying, and barely anything reaches your hitpoints as-is

[halcyon mason]

I had an ideas while back where your protection would drain faster the longer you kept it active, encouraging you to seek proper shelter eventually, even if you’re loaded on sodium; eventually it gets too fast to even hotkey it

[lilac crane]

That sounds a lot better.

[fiery comet]

what if things wore down over time and actually needed repairing

[supple warren]

the longer you kept it active
That presumes a level of control we just don't have tho, lol

Which might be interesting

[fiery comet]

we meet npcs who have suit upgrades that have deteriorated or broke, so we should have it happen too

[supple warren]

Disable hazard protection, tank it with your shields, lol

[lilac crane]

TBH, I think part of hazard prot is gimped by the current way upgrade modules are done.

[supple warren]

isn't this essentially emulated via recharging endlessly?

[lilac crane]

Rechargable upgrade modules aren't great for balance.

[halcyon mason]

I mean like, the amount of time between turning on and turning off on its own, the longer it’s on and not recharging on its own, the faster it drains

Going into a building of any kind resets this, or leaving the atmosphere in your ship

[supple warren]

Yeah, but that's the issue, it's practically always on, so it'd just start draining really rapidly if you were just roaming about, even without storms

It'd make the distinction between non-extreme planets & extreme planets a lot less clearcut

[lilac crane]

The thing with hazard upgrade modules is, keep 3 of them on to never be in danger or have to watch your bar ever.

[fiery comet]

over long term and needs items like when you're ship goes through a black hole and breaks modules

maybe only a specific way to repair before breaking

[supple warren]

i feel like recharging already fills that item maintenance area personally but 🤷‍♀️

Although I recognize how they're different

[halcyon mason]

The speed increase is a curve dependent on initial speed. On planets that aren’t extreme, it would take significantly longer, maybe 30-40 entire minutes for it to approach extreme drain. On extreme planets though, that would come way down, maybe only a few minutes in a storm before recharge is no longer feasible

[fiery comet]

It'd be easier to just nerf the hazard upgrades or increase hazard drain

[halcyon mason]

Would make POIs much more valuable, spotting one on foot would be a “phew, finally!” moment

Because entering would reset it

Stuff like minor settlement, trading posts, lookouts, and other stuff

[supple warren]

What's one think about the idea of storms preventing ship recall?

[halcyon mason]

I like that

[lilac crane]

Don't see the point./

[supple warren]

It goes back to the start of much of this whole hazard protection discussion

Ships are cheesy easy quick-shelter

[halcyon mason]

Maybe your ship shield is damaged gradually while flying in a storm, or rapidly in an extreme storm, encouraging you to either land or flee

Combine with protection only recharging in the air

[fiery comet]

I don't tend to be very far from my ship on hazard planets, but I can see the appeal

[halcyon mason]

Storms would prevent summoning and also hurt your ship while flying

[supple warren]

Combo:
-No ship recall in storms
-No launch in storms without risk of tech damage.
-Storms gradually damage ship in-flight.

[halcyon mason]

I like that

Brutal

[lilac crane]

Instead of rechargable upgrade modules, I would design upgrades the usual style:
-Resource fuel unlock: Unlocks use of either dioxite, ammonia, phosphor or uranium as recharging your normal hazard protection. Might open it up more?
-Hazard resistance: Reduces specific hazard drain.
-Hazard tank: Increases specific hazard tanks.
-Hazard Recharge: Increase specific hazard recharge speed.
-Hazard protection: Increases protection of specific hazards to only partially cover breaches.
Also: these values are capped, so you can never go beyond a certain level.

[supple warren]

The trick then is how to get people to go to those planets and disembark their ship once landed there

'cause if they know all of those details, there's a good chance they just flat out avoid the planets altogether

[halcyon mason]

Amp up the frequency of high yield hotspots, add new resources that ONLY appear on extreme planets

[lilac crane]

Shield damage should come first, then tech damage. Tech damage is pretty permanent, so give the player a chance to land before doing tech damage.

[fiery comet]

storm crystals are the only thing right now i guess

[supple warren]

I'd rather just have anything more interesting happening on stormy planets

Resources are such a bore as a lure

[fiery comet]

activated stuff is already only on stormy planets

[lilac crane]

This game is partially about resources.

[halcyon mason]

When trying to take off, it pops up a warning saying that you will damage something if you take off, and takes an extra second or so of holding the launch button to take off

Just to make sure it’s never an accident

[fiery comet]

you're character starts punching the panel to make it work :p

[lilac crane]

The thing is, players tend to almost always arrive on planets while a storm is happening.

[fiery comet]

is that programmed in? it's kind of annoying

[halcyon mason]

Let us see from space if one is ongoing. Flash lightning all over the planet visible from orbit

[supple warren]

Personally I just don't find resources/loot rewarding, so I'm thinking for others like myself, you need another hook.

'cause I already don't go to stormy/extreme hazard planets much of the time because they're worse in almost every respect.

Faster hazard drain, so more recharging.
Lower visibility because storm visuals are basically just MORE FOG/DUST.

And for what? Storm crystals and activated resources? Works for the greedy, but not for others.

[lilac crane]

Fair.

[supple warren]

You can tell storms are happening from space now

Usually they grey up from the cloud cover

[lilac crane]

The game never tells you that.

[supple warren]

Well, the tech damage I suggested would only happen on launch attempt, so shield damage would come first, at least in instances of traveling to the planet.

[lilac crane]

Fair, but only with a warning.

[supple warren]

Do black holes give you a warning? 👀

[lilac crane]

They should.

[fiery comet]

nah

[supple warren]

Eeh

If you warn about everything hazardous, where's the exploration?

[fiery comet]

same with the center travel

[supple warren]

As long as it doesn't have the ability to immediately kill you, I don't see much need for warning.

[lilac crane]

You should just partially know what you are only getting into. "Warning: Gravitational anomaly detected" is vague enough to know that a black hole is doing something, but not enough to know what it is.

[fiery comet]

why would you need that warning when you're flying right into a void in space though

[supple warren]

scifi fan doesn't know what black hole is

[lilac crane]

Hey, some people get into this game not knowing about sci-fi.

[fiery comet]

no warning of things breaking on lift off is an efficient tutorial

same with black holes

after the first time you tend not to forget

[lilac crane]

What?

[fiery comet]

where this started lol

[supple warren]

It's the classic teach by touching the hot thing, lol

You get singed ya not about to try touching the hot thing again without being prepared

[lilac crane]

Do you want tech repair to be a regular thing?

I get the impression you want normal to be hard because survival isn't hard.

[halcyon mason]

That would make it feel less like a punishment and more like a thing that just happens

Which I think is good

Even in survival you end up with piles of resources that are only ever used in repair

[supple warren]

I mean some people say the early game is the most satisfying part for them, which seems to be in some part related to the repair process

[lilac crane]

Repair costs would need adjustment then.

[halcyon mason]

Repair costs dependent on class of upgrade or tech

Or hey, why not just request certain types of materials instead of specific ones? Like say, the first ingredient will always be a wiring loom or something, but the second will be “Stellar Metal” or “Caustic Gas”

[lilac crane]

You always need to be able to repair crucial things in SITU. The rest is fine.

[halcyon mason]

And anything in those categories works

Like with the portal glyphs

What do you think of that?

[lilac crane]

Fine by me.

[supple warren]

Tbh I'd like if they'd just reduce crashed ship repairs by ditching the fake damage, i.e. broken slots

Any damage/repairs I'm talking about I'm always referring to installed tech/upgrade repairs and never suggesting fake damage/broken slots

[lilac crane]

Ditch the broken slots, go for actual modules yeah.

[halcyon mason]

So like, when initially BUILDING a tech, it asks for specific ingredients, but patching it up isn’t as specific, you just need the right TYPE of material

“Activated Stellar Metal”

[supple warren]

Tbh if you made it so you could learn the blueprint for repair kits, the repair costs are even less of an issue

You'd then just need the resources to throw together a repair kit

[lilac crane]

I have trouble reading you, you want more or less repair costs?

[halcyon mason]

I like the idea of it being a mini logic puzzle almost. You see “Refrigerant” and you have to think of what exactly that is, where to find it, or look in item descriptions to see if you have some already

It would be fun I think

[supple warren]

My point is that you could keep repair costs through resources the same as ever, incur tech damage more often, but have it offset by having repair kits readily available as a craftable tool

Not to dismiss Hiro's ideas btw, just my take on how to approach the repair situation

[halcyon mason]

“Purging Chemical” could be chlorine, could be ammonia, could be a couple other things; any of them work, the less valuable ones just need more to work

[lilac crane]

Still need some adjustment for living ships. Those require either Walker Brains, Bloody Organs, Sac Venom, Hadal Cores, Larval Cores or Hypnotic Eyes to repair.

[supple warren]

Could be a perk of living ships that they're more resilient & have less chance of taking damage

[lilac crane]

Hence, crucial need for in situ repair.

Mechanical Hyperdrive requiring antimatter for repairs, I am mixed about that.

[halcyon mason]

You could use real life knowledge to figure out some of them, like the aforementioned purging chemical, or a repair needing “Strong Conductor” (Gold, Silver, Platinum, Copper) or “Flammable Gas” (Oxygen, Di-hydrogen, Chlorine, Ammonia)

With more common resources needing higher quantity

I think it would be neat to have to think like you’re actually trying to fix something, figuring out what you need on your own, instead of just instantly knowing

And would let you use a wide array of alternatives that might be more common in your current system, actually making it MORE convenient

[lilac crane]

Not convinced.

[halcyon mason]

I’m thinking about it from an in universe perspective also

It makes sense that you’d know what to use to build a tech because you learned it

But why would you instantly know the exact thing to fix it? Fixing tends to be a different process than building

But you’d have an idea of the kinds of things you’ll need for the problem you can see

This means that tech could get damaged in different ways, like rusted, shorted, melted, punctured... each needing a different type of repair, and each type of damage more common to happen in different environments

[lilac crane]

Honestly, I think massive shield damage is enough of a stick to make people avoid launching.

[halcyon mason]

At this point I’m just talking about making repair in general better

More engaging

[lilac crane]

No need to increase the stick beyond its requirement except when you are talking about survival/PD.

[halcyon mason]

This type of repair would be easier though, no reason to put the easier solution in the harder difficulties

[lilac crane]

Fair.

[halcyon mason]

Remember, some of these can be solved with stuff you can find pretty much anywhere, just lots of it

[lilac crane]

But Survival should deal with such costs a lot more.

The harder costs, not the easier.

[halcyon mason]

And the idea was that maybe one or at most two requirements are type rather than specific. At least one part calls for something in particular, but something that’s either a commodity or an upgrade material like a wiring loom

“This component has melted, and needs cleaning, new circuitry, and a new housing”

The materials list would look like this:
Wiring Loom x1
(Desiccant Chemical)
(Non-Conductive Substrate)

[lilac crane]

Make launch thrusters exempt from wiring looms for obvious reasons.

Make them require something else instead.

[halcyon mason]

Yeah, they would be cheap to fix

Maybe even immune to random breakage

[supple warren]

@halcyon mason the changes you suggest to repairs might make things easier but they also aren't changing the fundamental action.

It's still an implicit fetch quest, just now the thing to fetch is less specific.

[lilac crane]

True.

[halcyon mason]

It would at least be one you have some agency over and have to think about before proceeding

[lilac crane]

But @supple warren suggested tech damage in storms in the first place.

[supple warren]

Not that I dislike the idea, mind, but it doesn't change what you do in response to tech damage by that much.

[halcyon mason]

It does make it less of a huge pain though

You’re more likely to have to least some of it on you already

[supple warren]

I could see it going either way to some degree

Being vague might just annoy more folks, even if in reality it's easier to source materials

[halcyon mason]

The more basic and essential tech would need easier to understand materials and simpler repairs. Stuff pretty much anyone over the age of fourteen would be able to piece together, like needing a flammable gas or conductive metal

It’s once the techs get more complex or higher rank that you have to find some way to deoxidize them or something

[supple warren]

That's assuming the science in NMS operates same as RL tho, which is another part that makes it tricky

So like someone might just try slapping any metal-like stuff in for the basic stuff, and get miffed it's not working, lol

[halcyon mason]

I mean life support runs on oxygen and planets with environments hostile to humans are hostile to your character (And the others, it’s implied)

So there’s a lot of borrowing real world knowledge to inform how we look at the game already

I think this would also need a revamp of the item descriptions for materials, describing them unambiguously as “commonly used to remove rust” or “useful as a drying agent”

Stuff like that, woven into their descriptions

So if you have a hunch, you can check

HG loves writing it seems, adding flavor text like this seems right up their alley

[supple warren]

They also like making nonsense, tho. See: basically any refiner mix.

[halcyon mason]

I mean that could be the result of refiners basically being replicators

Lol

[supple warren]

yeah which is why i keep saying they should rename the stupid things, lol

[halcyon mason]

You get what I mean though right? Would be kinda neat too, to learn properties of the things around you that you never knew, like chlorine being flammable, or when to use acids versus bases

The descriptions would be both legitimately informative and tip you off about what type of repairs they’re useful for

[supple warren]

I'm one of the oddballs that enjoyed the fake elements from before tbh, lol

[halcyon mason]

There could still be those too, but they would also have those hints

There are also ways to subtly inform purpose based on name alone. Ending something with -ide or -ine makes people believe it’s toxic

[lilac crane]

I do think we should have procedurally generated resources, but it should be experimented with, 1 resource per planet at a time.

[supple warren]

Practically speaking, what would that change? I've seen folks suggest this in the past but it's never been clear what it would really add or change.

[lilac crane]

The first proposal is making a procgen fuel, with one random bonus stat akin to upgrade modules. You can have hyperdrive fuels that are either very efficient, or add extra range to your jump.

If you want to go even more crazy with this, the second step, Procgen base modules.

Practically, it would make planets interesting by making each planet potentially valuable because the resources are unique.

[supple warren]

If it's largely RNG stat modifiers, like upgrade modules, then it's sorta to me, but 🤷‍♀️

But then I'm more of the proc-gen for style over stats camp

[lilac crane]

RNG stat modifiers, yes.

[supple warren]

Yeah, so either alongside or besides that, I'd be more into the idea of more proc-gen flora/geology with distinct behaviors to them.

The treatment of practically every interactive object as a resource node, collectible, or very occasionally, boost, is pretty uninteresting to me. However, that last one, acting as a boost, is at least a little different, but it's still pretty silly being beneficial.

[lilac crane]

And I’m in the substance over style camp. A lot of the procgen looks cool in the beginning, but falls apart when you start looking at it.

[supple warren]

As a basic example of another way they might behave, take interacting with flora that some prey tends to like, instead of harvesting it, it stirs the attention of the prey as you trying to steal it, and provokes them to attack you.

It's little alternative interactions that's not strictly style, but not also just player-centric benefits benefits benefits. It's all about you.

[lilac crane]

For my example, I found a strange flying plant that just turned into carbon.

I expected the plant to contain something new, but it did not and I was only left disappointed.

[supple warren]

The degree to which almost everything centres the player in the game really detracts from the exploratory vibe imo.

Yeah, see, I'd expect the plant to behave differently, beyond just floating, not that it would necessarily contain something for me.

[lilac crane]

Imo, special things should contain special benefits.

[supple warren]

Imo special things should have special behaviors.

And those shouldn't strictly be beneficial or harmful.

Sometimes they might benefit you, sometimes they won't.

[lilac crane]

If I wanted carbon, well, there are a thousand times quadrillion trees in the multiverse.

[supple warren]

But something should happen if you try to interact, and moreso if you find a unique way to interact.

Right, and if I wanted to crack open a resource node there are a quadrillion in the multiverse.

[lilac crane]

Given RNG, it’s stats will be as unique as the difference between different values.

[supple warren]

Either way, the ideas aren't mutually exclusive, we both know what we want and it's simply different, lol

[lilac crane]

Well, I’m not opposed to the procgen generating in a plant, but it shouldn’t only generate there.

[supple warren]

Yeah, and I'm thinking it shouldn't only be related to some stats, but also behaviors

[lilac crane]

I had an idea in the past with plants having different behaviors depending on cycles: Day/Night, monthly, yearly.

[supple warren]

Yeah, the glowing grass and storm crystals are good examples of slight, distinct behaviors according to environmental conditions, which I'd dig seeing more of

But also with some more practical effects besides just the visual or, "Now you can collect it!"

[lilac crane]

Depending on the cycles, plants would change state. Some plants may retract their flowers at night, others will burrow in the ground and others may change color.

[supple warren]

A very simple behavioral change I'd like to see from the hazardous flora would be them harming local fauna that stray near them, not just you

[lilac crane]

Having cyclical variation will avoid planets becoming stale too much. Monthly and yearly(more like game years and months), would allow you to see the planet change as you inhabit it.

IRL, seasons and cycles dictate the lives of thousands or millions of different species.

This includes you, human beings.

[delicate wharf]

Thatd add space for more creature variety, some only appearing during certain seasons

[tardy wave]

Seasons would be even better (and make more sense) if planets revolved around their stars. Seasons on earth only happens because the tilt of the planet causes some parts of it to be pointed towards the sun in certain times in the cycle, so maybe something like that could be added along with seasons.

That would also open up the possibility for some planets to be tilted more than others, and therefore have seasons that are more or less distinct from each other.

[coarse prism]

We have seen low gravity planets, so what about high gravity planets? More launch cost, less effective jetpack, and potentially crushing you on some

[timid summit]

What future NMS could look like

[stable mauve]

Perhaps even more variation for the gravity, with it changing based on the mass (size) of the planet and not being just 0.5, 1 or 2, but more like between 0.01 and 5

[timid summit]

We really need different planet sizes and Star sizes.

Give me dwarf stars, supergiants, hypergiants even.

Stars with different temperatures

[supple warren]

Stars with different flavors

[timid summit]

Lmao

[fiery comet]

when vr gets taste 👌

[supple warren]

Taste the Cosmos

[deft lily]

Ngl now I want an update where we can paint our ships, just like how we can paint our freighters.

[nocturne kraken]

At least I want more decal options

[fiery comet]

full ship building 😭 custom paint and decal placement. gotta find and scrap ships for parts. been said in here a lot, everyone should actually send it to hellogames

[nocturne kraken]

I wanna put the airplane shark face on my mecha

[deft lily]

That sounds like an expensive build. But could work, but that's a big update and not an easy one.

[fiery comet]

who cares about the size or scope they've got until they don't wanna support the game to make it happen

[supple warren]

More importantly:
-stares in changing the ground textures, color palettes, clouds, water, generating NEW planets alongside old ones-
I don't think scope and challenge are really stopping HG, lol

[deft lily]

Fair enough

[plucky lodge]

Being able to buy different patterns/markings for your ship/freighter

[halcyon mason]

I would love to see a system that gradually overlays your ship, your suit, and building exteriors with debris buildup in hazardous climates

[lilac crane]

Why?

[halcyon mason]

Deserts would cake everything in sand, hot climates would powder stuff in soot, snowy ones would of course cover everything in frost, toxic climates would cover stuff in a thin layer of unpleasantly oily looking film, radiative climates would fade and crack paint, stuff like that

It would add a lot to feeling like you’re actually occupying these places

[lilac crane]

It does force people to be in a particular building style though.

[halcyon mason]

What do you mean?

You’re just fading in a texture overlay

It’s purely aesthetic

[lilac crane]

The aesthetic part is why you force people in a particular building style.

Can't create immaculate buildings anymore.

[fiery comet]

you make some buildable thing that "auto cleans" them so it doesn't build up, like the wire hider

[halcyon mason]

(And I would kinda argue that permanently immaculate buildings in extreme environments are nonsense anyway)

[tribal hemlock]

be able to fly freighters around (not just warping, like b able to actively pilot them)

[halcyon mason]

That might be very difficult to implement due to their size. Frigates I could see, but freighters are kilometers long.

Turning would be excruciatingly slow, akin to rotating a crane

[fiery comet]

what would you even do while flying it, just cruise around space?

[supple warren]

I think the real trick would be coming up with anything for them to fight or visit to justify making them mobile tbh

[halcyon mason]

I mean if you look at them in-world, I think what they’re going for is the freighter just being a mobile command center, with the frigates and personal craft handling interaction with other fleets and stations and stuff

[supple warren]

If fighting, then you have the awkwardness of what to do with the dense asteroid fields, and do you reduce the complexity/detail of the models to make rigging them work better?

Then there's the issue of, okay, do we also reduce the fleet models' complexity so semi-synchronous movement doesn't just tank the game performance, or...?

Not to knock the idea, mind, it's just that there's a fair bit to consider in making that sort of change

[halcyon mason]

I mean even in in-world “lore” perspective, I think freighters are meant to be a fortified mobile headquarters for whatever entity controls that given fleet

The freighter itself doesn’t really need to move at sub-light speeds because it has frigates and starships to send out and return instead, which would be much more efficient and pose less risk to the freighter and crew

Again I’d rather see frigates be controllable (or able to be summoned individually)

But even frigates would have to stay out in space, they’re MUCH bigger than you think they are.

Actually, what I think would be nice, is the ability to tell your captain to jump to a nearby planet’s orbit, without having to go there, land on it, and THEN summon it in orbit.

Depending on the situation this could be much faster than pulse drive.

(The moment you choose the planet and confirm, the freighter instantly warps there)

[supple warren]

Besides the visuals, there's not really much point to having them orbit specific planets tho...?

[halcyon mason]

It would be a different, sometimes faster way of going from one planet to another

If your freighter is already orbiting your current planet, fly aboard, pick another planet, and it warps into orbit there, cutting out a bit of pulse travel time

[fiery comet]

the freighter is basically the designable space station people want without the shape

[supple warren]

that's why my compromise suggestion is a new set of freighters with exposed base section to give them a more custom look

[gloomy hazel]

Freighters should be able to do an air strike on groups of eneimes on planets . Speaking of eneimes hellogames should add more combat centered stuff, like pirate strongholds on planets

[supple warren]

i'm waiting for the dating sim update

[gloomy hazel]

😳

[sharp widget]

I would still like a freighter variant that is just a hangar and control room, connected by a room with airlocks. The build menu would have access to the prefabs. Externally, the freighter would be an rng selected engine hull, hangar deck and control room, and the rest would be a player constructed mobile station.

[fiery comet]

if that lets me get rid of the antenna in front of the hanger doors of dreadnoughts, I'm for it

[supple warren]

It just lets you rescale it to be even more obstructive

[sharp widget]

Freighters could, perhaps, benefit from "bigger on the outside" building. Imagine if we could build an intricate space base using prefab parts, but the game, for the purposes of rendering a massive freighter, picked larger equivalent freighter parts, and arranged them in a roughly equivalent but perhaps more freighter like layout.

Either way, I thing a greenhouse freighter covered in massive bio-domes would be cool.

[sharp widget]

Clearly there are a number of elements here that dont fit with NMS's modular freighters, but giant glass domes covering green bio-habitats are a very good look to be able to incorporate on Freighter scale ships.

[supple warren]

by one of the modders in the community 👀

love this concept

[sharp widget]

OMG. Why am i playing on XBox. I need this in my life.

HG really need to build in a way to offically incorporate and publish community content.

[real reef]

OMG a channel to get about crazy for future ideas 😄

[supple warren]

if it makes you feel any better I don't think that's been updated to be in the current version of the game...That shot's from...Atlas Rises maybe? I'd have to look it up again.

Whatever the case, the mod's several versions old & I can't recall if they ever released it to begin with, lol

[sharp widget]

so much better. knowing now one else can have it either 😛

[bitter anchor]

A dedicated menu for trading with players

It would be cool if we could build our own economy

[sharp widget]

first, there would need to be a why

player based crafting or something would need to be added

but seriously, once you have 300+ hours in the game, there is no need to trade with other players for any reason.

there are some, relatively difficult things to get. But once you have them, more are worthless. Salvaged frigate modules are gold until you've purchased the last upgrade. Then they're pointless rubbish.

salvage data at least can be refined into nanites. But having it in your inventory means that every time you visit the anomoly you get harassed to buy recipes when you have no recipes left to buy. So Ive just stopped digging them up to avoid that annoyance.

factory overrides likewise are worthless. along with freighter bulkheads, and even exotool expansion slots.

[real reef]

so let's implement player creations

voxel style

[mint shadow]

i'd love to see gas giants

have moons/planets orbit them and they could have some kind of platforms that you could land on

[paper hatch]

thats what I was thinking

we need to be able to maybe board sentinel fighters or even freighters

maybe campfires

[copper dawn]

Or destroy/disabled them. Why to fight them otherwise, when we can't even take them down?

In case of the Sentinel ones.

[paper hatch]

eh

actually

I like that to completly destroy one

[nocturne kraken]

Would somehow want being stranded to become a real issue

I guess that boils down to planets being more wild and unpredictable

[visual cloak]

imagine if forests/snowy forests looked like this in the unmodded game. 🥲 #nms-photomode-gallery message

[lilac crane]

How about being able to favourite systems?

[supple warren]

isn't that what folks more or less do with bases atm?

[lilac crane]

Just want to be able to sticky space stations, though, it does explose a different problem.

Here's the thing: Once you found 3+ economies, you are set. Economies should be able to change.

[supple warren]

Same with conflict, and it would be more interesting if they were intertwined in some way

Depending on the type of economy, high conflict might benefit it, but for others it might harm it

[visual cloak]

why am i able to build a base with a dense forest with hundreds of trees but forests can’t spawn procedurally that look like forests?

[supple warren]

because bases have to have free space to build your own forest /s

[lilac crane]

I wonder if you could make players able to change economies. Each system should have an "economical center" unique to it and only 1 exists per system, there you are given the following choice:
-Raid: Get lots of money/materials, but reduce the economy tier by 1.
-Expand: Pay money/material to increase economy tier.
-Reconfigure: Change economy type to a different one, in exchange for materials and reducing economy tier.
Sentinels would give you level 5 wanted level upon being close, given this facility is crucial for the entire system. It does need more to prevent players from messing with it willy nilly.

Sentinel level 5 and being guarded by multiple walkers is insane, but just not enough given the sheer power in this facility.

[supple warren]

Oh, I was thinking it might be in space instead tbh

[lilac crane]

One concern about being in space is that it could make the thing too easy to find.

Because this should be an endgame thing, changing the economy by your actions.

Space sentinels just don't scale well. Higher wanted levels need to be stronger.

Space economic centers aren't going to work when the sentinels are too easy.

[fiery comet]

funny how a dreadnought isn't a threat

if they upgrade space battling it could be viable but the ground is deadlier right now

wouldn't it make sense to have players actions also change the economy? like constant pirating, doing missions, finding a selling resources

[lilac crane]

Space sentinel Improvements:
-Sentinel freighters can be killed given enough damage.
-New Sentinel frigates, combat frigate equivalents, appear at L3.
-Sentinel Interceptors, medium ships(3-4 times the size of normal ships), appear at L3.

You want sentinel freighters as your personal freighter?

Cool, but sentinels need to be overhauled first.

I was thinking having wanted levels up to level 5 just doesn't work too well for this game. Wanted levels in GTA are introduced in a game without too much progression and where attrition isn't going to last too long. It needs massive expansion, an idea we talked about before, but I haven't seen anyone else on it yet. I believe in the open market of ideas, give me your best shot.

[fiery comet]

I think 5 star works, it just isn't balanced very well, 1-4 is just extra ships and not a threat after a while. problem with 5 star is the dreadnought can't handle a modded ship and enemies spawn 2-3 at a time from the same direction every time, poor implementation. I like the idea of 3 having a frigate, 4 having two or more frigates and 5 being a dreadnought. if they don't wanna have players destroying or taking over dreadnoughts then it should self repair its weapons over time. I think a dreadnought with 2 frigates and 5 regular ships would be a challenge to deal with

[lilac crane]

Even with 3S everything?

I fought a dreadnought myself. I disabled it.

It dealt barely any damage.

Do keep in mind it was in a 3S ship with Positron Ejectors and Infra-knifes.

Honestly, I don't find the carrier too impressive. Sentinels should be intimidating.

[fiery comet]

idk I play survival, so 3s everything would still be a struggle with that amount of fire power coming at you at once, usually the regular sentinel ships are still spawning back in when a dreadnought comes in so it's not a problem. but 5 regular ships, 2 frigates and a dreadnought that can repair it's weapons would be a threat

probably not in normal, nothing is with max upgrades, but its also normal, wouldn't expect it to be hard at all

[lilac crane]

I have an idea: The Sentinel Sphere. A space sentinel so large, its as big as the anomaly. It should have a massive eye that shoots a massive laser. The sentinel sphere turns slowly. Basically the sphere is the ultimate "Here's why you don't mess with sentinels."

In the lore, the sentinels brought down a massive empire.

[fiery comet]

some how lmao

they wiped all life from one universe too

[lilac crane]

Yeah, so they should be given effective tools to destroy you. I don't want to feel like the sentinels are holding back when I mess with them.

I should be afraid, very afraid.

[fiery comet]

can't remember when they got disconnected from the atlas though, it might be why they're weaker now and not purging the galaxy

[lilac crane]

I don't think they are.

Exactly.

Sentinels are meant to be the intergalactic police force.

Making the sentinels stronger also makes the Gek First Spawn and the Empire of Hirk the great much more impressive.

Should reduce ludonarrative dissonance.

Because of lack of enemies.

[fiery comet]

yeah currently you could probably solo the gek first spawn and the vy'keen 😆

[lilac crane]

While I like more difficulty, I also want more variety.

Let sentinels come with different ship types, so even L1 and L2 feel slightly different.