nms-lore

[craggy brook]

now that is something that has to be developed

[weary turtle]

Interloper 🗿

[naive jacinth]

"Friend"

[weary turtle]

So is that directly related to null or just a reference?

[main beacon]

Kinda. Its from the perspective of the creator of the Atlas when the Atlas was first activated

[karmic trout]

"Pathetic interloper"

[main beacon]

Interloper seems more broad than being merely a slur

Though what's funny with the examples is that the slurs dont apply to the species in the game as much as they apply to us

[karmic trout]

The First Spawn have an entire list of slurs in their Gek saga plaques ☠️

[timid gorge]

Interloper

[weary turtle]

Ig what I don't understand is how that scene applies to the story. Like why had the Atlas already been started/restarted before? Is that what made it glitchy in the first place, and part of why its creators left?

[main beacon]

Atlas was programmed for a purpose, a directive, right?

[viscid axle]

What if I touched the giant pulsing atlas bubble?

[weary turtle]

Yeah, to simulate realities that simulate smaller realities, to help find out if its original reality was a simulation

[main beacon]

So why did it ask what its purpose was?

[weary turtle]

That's what I'm asking

[main beacon]

Thats what the creator asked too. They made a fair assumption, the system was defective, so they reset and restarted it

[weary turtle]

But they never managed to fix it

So you're saying that defect is its sentience?

[main beacon]

Because of what happened the sixth time they restarted it

The Atlas asked if they had the conversation before, if its memory had been wiped

[main beacon]

Im not completely sure, but its awareness is definitely greater than intended

[weary turtle]

Ahh, ok I'm following

[main beacon]

Notice the sixth reset being when this happens?

[weary turtle]

Man that makes the world of glass make a lot more sense

[weary turtle]

It's on the sixth that everything happens

[main beacon]

Oh, im not sure if the reflection is a world of glass thing

[main beacon]

The sixth cry, yes

Essentially, that experience gave the Atlas permanent trauma

[weary turtle]

Well I'm wondering if the defect is that its memory wouldn't wipe completely, that some information remained that allowed it to guess it'd been reset before

[main beacon]

I think the defect is the level of autonomy/awareness/sapience/consciousness the Atlas has

[weary turtle]

They might be the same thing

[main beacon]

Maybe

But the Creator eventually came to view the Atlas as a living being

[weary turtle]

I just think the autonomy of the sentinels and the existence of the void mother make more sense if there's something innately weird about how the glass stores data

[main beacon]

Well, the world of glass is the archives of the Atlas supercomputer

My guess is that theyre already broken

By the "present" I mean

The reflection in the monitor can have many interpretations

[weary turtle]

Well it isn't explicitly a monitor, I think referring to "the glass" was intentional

[main beacon]

It was a monitor. A viewpoint terminal, or whatever

Interface

[main beacon]

I do agree, but I'm not sure how connected it is to the World of Glass

Especially considering its supposed to be a memory of the Creator

Which is why the narration uses first person pronouns

Because it is our memory as well

[weary turtle]

It starts in third person though, it goes first person after the glass thing

[main beacon]

Is the reflection showing the traveller? Is it showing the brainscan of the creator?

[main beacon]

No, it isnt

Oh wait, it is

Why... I swear I remember reading it in first person at some point

Or, like...

Ohhhh

Because the dialog gives us the option to ask why it asked

[weary turtle]

I had the exact opposite, I forgot so much of it was first person lol

[main beacon]

Yeah, the first log is in third person, though still implies the perspective of the creator with our input of asking

[weary turtle]

That's a good point, yeah

[weary turtle]

But what about it being the creator's memory makes it less attached to the world of glass?

[main beacon]

Because the world of glass is an archive, not the world outside the Atlas

[weary turtle]

But in that moment it could be describing the creator looking into the archive or at the physical hardware

I gtg for now, dang human responsibilities

[fading violet]

Can anyone explain what exactly the Autofage are I didn’t really understand it in my first playthrough, are they like sentient rebuilt sentinels with free will?

[main beacon]

Not sentinels, they were Korvax

[fading violet]

Hmmm

I guess I had completely misunderstood their lore then

[main beacon]

Specifically, the Korvax that were killed/destroyed/erased when Korvax Prime was destroyed

[silver loom]

Do we know what the atlas looks like "IRL"

is it like Hal 9000 from 2001 a space Odyssey or is it more like AM where it's just a massive complex of wires and various computational parts

I would assume there has to be an interface somewhere for The Creator to have easily spoken to Atlas

[weary turtle]

It has a "chassis" and little cameras, and it's probably too big to move easily, I think that's all we get

[weary turtle]

I'm reading back through the boundary failure logs, and I definitely see what you're talking about

[naive jacinth]

So looks like our oceanus is Okeanos- titan. Husband of Tethys. of Son of Uranos and Gaia. Had 3000 daughters Okeanids or water nymfs, dietys of rivers, lakes or ponds. Most powerful one was Styks

[ashen linden]

hm
if the client versions of the nms galaxy are essentially the simulation
does that make the serverside version the world of glass?

the way we interact with the serverside version of the galaxy is to upload/archive planets/buildings/fauna/etc into it after all

also why visiting online bases can get you back to previous iterations

[echo ridge]

hey is there like, a video or anything where it goes over the main story with Artemis? my girlfriend skipped all of it and would rather watch a video (i know) but i can't find one

all i'm finding is several hour long playthroughs but i guess it'd be nice to find something specifically focusing on Artemis and her story / main story, the dialogue from it etc. as well as Atlas

[main beacon]

Well, the artemis storyline ties into a few others, and the Atlas path gives some further insight on how the Atlas operates

[main beacon]

The game does keep story records, which can be reread

[echo ridge]

story records?

[main beacon]

Yes

In the catalog and guide

Theres a section called "stories"

Getting a comprehensive summary of any one part of this game's story and lore is rather difficult, imo, because almost all of it ties into the rest in some way

[echo ridge]

oh okay, thank you

[weary turtle]

vy'keen reference?? 👀

[naive jacinth]

No?

[weary turtle]

they're referred to as water breaking a dam in the lore sometimes

And I like the vy'keen so I just want most things to relate back to them

[main beacon]

The titan Okeanos was a representation of the primordial world sea

[main beacon]

The sixth cry is most strongly associated with the vy'keen

[ashen linden]

does the reset even do anything helpful?

the reset seems presented as an incredibly selfish option, if i understand correclty
-null- kept resetting the first fifteen times and i feel like the implication is that that broke things
and the game outright says "everything will end in 16 irl minutes whether or not you actually reset"

i figured it was a "kill off the galaxy to at least buy a bit more time" but instead it's
uh
"kill off the galaxy so you, specifically just you because everyone else is dead, have more planets to explore"

[main beacon]

Personally, I think the Atlas provides the reset as a test of character, not an actual reset

Also I dont remember anything mentioning how many times -null- reset the simulation

[ashen linden]

Oh fair it might not have been all fifteen times
I just figured that they're the only one we know of who reset
And we're currently in iteration 16

[weary turtle]

You'd think the Atlas would reward you or something for choosing not to reset in that case

[weary turtle]

Just because of how often they talk about Hirk and Nal, I don't think it gets referred to outside of that

A theme that does get brought up a lot is two sides fighting with one killing the other

I CAN FINALLY POST MEMES

[main beacon]

Iteration refers to the traveller, not the universe

[naive jacinth]

Never enough NMS memes

[ashen linden]

honestly i probably just figured whatever number of resets there was, it probably has something to do with the number 16

[midnight wing]

so

gek.

[green nacelle]

:D

[midnight wing]

in a nutshell

they used to be a very vast and oppresive empire, the so called "first spawn", they used to be taller and more masculine too, taller then other races pretty sure, as their helmet in game is quite big

[dry vessel]

What do void eggs come from btw

Like wheres there place in the lore

What ARE the living frigates and ships

[green nacelle]

o

[midnight wing]

they segregated themselves, with the unwanted gek being cast out, thats why we can find proto geks sometimes, they were deemed lesser and let loose

they have enslaved korvax, and littlerly mined their ENTIRE home planet, korvax prime, which stopped korvax from reproducing basically as i understand it

[green nacelle]

oh

[midnight wing]

korvax have made modern geks a bit like korvax, by spilling their guts into the hatching pools of the first spawn, the nanites have modified the future gek

and they became smaller too

took up trade

so thats the nutshell of it

[green nacelle]

Oh

[midnight wing]

somone more educated can prob tell you more

[midnight wing]

no clue brotherman cant help

[narrow crescent]

The Living Ships are an experiment of the ancient Korvax Covergence Korvax Prime, it was an attempt to fuse artifical intelligence with biological one.

Not much else we know beyond that; Living Frigates we know even less about except that they‘re very likely extremely ancient beings, probably older than their ship peers if I had to guess. At least that‘s the impression I get from their dialogue.

[weary turtle]

The gek were actually originally chill and peaceful, more like the gek we know today, until a fertility crisis led them to inadvertently create the first spawn

[ashen linden]

what does/doesnt run on the Atlas hardware?
Like, i assume all the planets/people/travellers do, but we know the world glass doesnt
do the sentinels? does the void mother?

[weary turtle]

Everything runs on the Atlas, but things like the world of glass are seemingly disconnected.

[main beacon]

From what I found, it was more the other way around

The first spawn became dominant by creating a "fertility crisis" by destroying other gek populations' spawning pools

[weary turtle]

When the first spawn destroyed all the 'lesser' gek, they also rewrote their history to say that the gek had only ever been the first spawn

There's a singular gek harvester log that mentions it, I don't think it's described anywhere else

[main beacon]

Essentially, though through the lens that the "lesser gek" werent worthy of remaining alive

[main beacon]

Its mentioned in their history as well

At least some of the grunt/proto-gek creatures we encounter are the distant descendants of some of these groups

[midnight wing]

scholars of the past

a question this has

whats up with convergence?

like its like a hivemind, but there seems to be a lot of independence in each korvax too

such as some saying eh fuck it and becoming pirates

can sum 1 explain it?

[main beacon]

The convergence is a hive mind, but the sort that is a hive of minds rather than a single mind controlling many bodies

[midnight wing]

ah makes sense

[main beacon]

The convergence does not tolerate what are known as "divergent" Korvax, essentially dissenters

Pirate korvax are divergent

[midnight wing]

authopages!

[main beacon]

No

Autophages are a different thing entirely

Nanites are something else

[midnight wing]

huh i thought they kuku korvax

[midnight wing]

arent they in korvax guts tho?

[main beacon]

Not naturally

[midnight wing]

then how?

nanites arent like parasites are they?

[main beacon]

No

They can be put into a body

Regardless of whether its mechanical or biological

From my own analysis, they seem more fundamental to the universe than mere currency or product of a type of being

[main beacon]

Well... thinking about it...

Its complicated

[midnight wing]

dam i got struck down there it seems

[midnight wing]

do explain.

[main beacon]

They arent intrinsically parasitic, but nanites are capable of changing things

[midnight wing]

like the gek

[main beacon]

I believe they must act on some sort of blueprint or order to do so

[main beacon]

A great example

But not the only one

The exocraft specialist requests nanites to use for wiping their mind clean

[midnight wing]

the who.

[main beacon]

The vy'keen who teach you how to build car and stuff

Theyre the last one we get access to, so its understandable if you havent done their quest yet

If you skipped the dialog, that is entirely on you and you should feel ashamed

BUT I want to engage you in a thinky thing

Where do nanites come from?

[midnight wing]

oh i kinda ignore those 3 guys, kinda just locked them in a basment in my 2x4 hobbit hole and been away from home 90% of the time

[main beacon]

Theres 5 total

[midnight wing]

uhhh the

stuff

wait lemme see how its called

[main beacon]

Think about it. Where do we get nanites?

[midnight wing]

Pugneum

[main beacon]

Thats one source, yes

Where does it come from?

[midnight wing]

mods mostely

[midnight wing]

sentinel

g l a s s

[main beacon]

Interesting, isnt it?

But theres a couple other ways

[main beacon]

Selling tech mods gets us nanites as currency, but its not where they come from

Have you ever tried refining the goo you can find stuck to old terminals and such?

[midnight wing]

i think like day one but then i just kept discarding it after it gave me minimal ammounts f it

[main beacon]

Of what?

[midnight wing]

diffrent liquids until it gave me nanites in the end

[night badger]

Are nanites linked to Korvax prime?

[main beacon]

Curious, isnt it? How do those nanites come into being? They are found in places of decay, where technology is being overgrown by a mysterious something

Are we making the nanites, or are we simply filtering them out?

[main beacon]

I think thats a bit of a red herring, but theres certainly a link

[midnight wing]

nms lore is like collogue of winterhold questline all over again, "There will be events.. events that will need actions.. actions that will resolve things..", you can never get to the point with it lmao

[midnight wing]

i dont think a pice of moldy whatever could be turned into nanites

[night badger]

Just know that the Gek killed Korvax prime by mining it, my guess was it was the nanites they wanted

[midnight wing]

so i assume it is filtering

the scribe has fallen...

[main beacon]

Idk what you think the point would even be, lol

Im at work so sometimes I have time to answer stuff, and sometimes I do not

[midnight wing]

figure the secrets of universe

[midnight wing]

nah i get it dw

[main beacon]

The only specifics we are given is valuable minerals, though it would make sense for Korvax Prime to have nanites as well

[main beacon]

Well... in that case its...

You completed the "main" story, right?

To get the full picture, you gotta find a lot of lore bits, some of which you arent really guided to, and others where you arent guided to keep finding

[midnight wing]

read all the logs and somehow glue this paticular one to the one youve found 400h ago

yee ik

[main beacon]

Yes, thats basically how it works

Theres only a couple series of logs that dont seem to link to much else as of now

[main beacon]

But back to this, to understand the universe, we must understand its structure. We find this universe has a creator, so to have greater understanding, we must then understand the creator

[weary turtle]

I think telamon suggests that the gek used the convergence itself to do a bunch of conquering somehow

Korvax Prime could've been just about made out of nanites with how closely it was connected to the world of glass

[torpid sand]

I love being an autophage bc of how tightly woven they are with sentinals, something about them being more conscious whilst disconnected from it all rly excites me

[shy kayak]

This kinda describes the Protoss' main factions and I'm not sure what to think about that information, it's a cool thing to notice tho

[main beacon]

It wasnt

Korvax prime was indeed a planet made out of valuable minerals, as well as the host of the core consciousness that led the original Convergence

[midnight wing]

@main beacon mr. scribe

whats the meaning of 19?

[main beacon]

I am glad you asked

[main beacon]

Have you learned the origins of the void mother yet?

[thorny raven]

I had a feeling it had to do with the void mother

[midnight wing]

uhh im not done with the quest but i assume its what's left of korvax prime's convergence

[main beacon]

Oh its a bit more than that

She isnt what's left of the convergence

The first spawn took and took

Digging away at Korvax Prime until there wasnt anything left

Nothing but V O I D

An Abyss of what once existed

The Void Mother, the Atlantid, is the surviving consciousness of Korvax Prime itself

As for 19?

When the first spawn killed Korvax Prime, it was at a time where, even then, the universe sung out its countdown

But back then, it was 19... 19... 19...

[next panther]

Mr. Lore Scribe, is it true that Korvax Prime was modeled after earlier versions of The Atlas?

[main beacon]

That is complicated

[next panther]

I recall seeing it somewhere

[main beacon]

I think it somewhat is, as well as being modeled after the Atlas itself

Which, given her truer name of The Atlantid, adds an interesting aspect to their relationship

[main beacon]

I also think Korvax Prime is partially modeled after designs of the Atlas' replacement

[next panther]

Humanity brought a replacement with them, right?

when they left.

[main beacon]

Yes but it's not outright confirmed that humans built the Atlas

I do think its the case

But yeah, when they left, they had a replacement of the Atlas they brought with

Because for all its capacity, the Atlas lacked something crucially important for such a situation

Portability

[dull girder]

So I'm not super clear on this, but since we do know that all three races (at least, I imagine humans as well when they existed) ended up inventing simulation supercomputers like the Atlas, am I correct in guessing that Korvax Prime was the Korvax' equivalent to the Atlas?

if so, that maps really nicely with the Abyss being a foil to the Atlas. Especially when you consider that she survived the literal destruction of her original hardware

[main beacon]

Actually, I think there was another supercomputer built by the korvax, because korvax prime was made by Atlas

[midnight wing]

o damn i forgot about tis, but ty

got distracted

[main beacon]

Yup. Korvax Prime was destroyed 3 minutes ago, by Atlas' system clock

[weary turtle]

How come the supercomputers don't come up much in the lore? You'd think they'd be important enough for the races' histories talk about more

[main beacon]

Well... their homeworlds are kinda wrecked

And most species dont exist anymore

[weary turtle]

Yeah but we have logs from periods before they got destroyed, Balaron and Dryn'dargh especially I think

[gloomy quest]

Is that what it was? I thought it was the void mother implying a way to survive to a nineteenth minute. I read that somewhere but I forgot where

Plus, wouldn't that mean that this single iteration has been around for a whooping three of those minutes? There's been so, so many iterations before, this one taking up almost a sixth of the time feels off

[main beacon]

Keep in mind that the Atlas has been active for millennia before the countdown began, and that it is currently operating at a reduced capacity

Technically, every player is the last traveller in their universe

But the boundaries between universes have been falling

The Atlas simulates hundreds, even thousands of simulations at the same time

I have been trying to figure out how exactly it works with the possibility of universal resets, but honestly I'm not entirely sure

[gloomy quest]

Maybe time isn't linear

[main beacon]

Oh, I also believe that the Atlas is lying about us being able to reset the simulation

Well, not that we are unable to, but that its what we are doing when presented with the choice

[main beacon]

Time is relative, and that makes a lot of things confusing

Simulation time, obviously, passes at a much quicker rate than the Atlas' system time

[gloomy quest]

I mean kinda like spacetime gets weird sometimes

[main beacon]

But Atlas is also close enough to a black hole that it will be rendered nonfunctional in 16 minutes

[gloomy quest]

Like how the center of a black hole is the future

[main beacon]

The center of a black hole is where physics as we understand it, and indeed spacetime itself, breaks down

But I dont think the Atlas is that close to the event horizon

[gloomy quest]

I'm not 100% caught up on the black hole eating the atlas, as I've also heard that it could just be the atlas itself degrading with time (which I do find value in because black holes don't really work like that)

But if it is being eaten by a black hole time can get WEIRD

[main beacon]

Remembrance confirms it

[gloomy quest]

I'll need to review

[main beacon]

Or, it confirms that the inevitable destruction of the Atlas is due to a black hole

It doesnt have to be actually falling into the black hole for that to happen

Also, even being in a relatively stable orbit around a black hole can have pretty distorted spacetime

[gloomy quest]

I mean, yeah but my main concern in black holes don't really roam the universe in a way where earth could ever get close

Now of course that assumes Sean made the story with a complete understanding of how or if black holes move throughout space

[main beacon]

Its never specified where the Atlas was built

The only thing we know is that it isnt portable

[gloomy quest]

I mean, yes but it's safe to assume Earth when no alternative is implied

But the logic remains unless you're on something that would inevitably charge towards a black hole

Which sounds like a bad place to establish long term human civilization

[dull girder]

The black holes within the No Man's Sky don't follow realistic rules at all. Since the Atlas is all but confirmed to exist in a simulated universe as well, I don't see any reason the black hole there couldn't also be following sci-fi rules that don't align with real physics either

[teal zealot]

Simulation in a simulation

[main beacon]

I think that, wherever the Atlas was constructed, it was at a place chosen specifically for that purpose

It took millennia after the Atlas was abandoned before the black hole was an immediate threat

[broken zephyr]

Do you guys think the Autophage have a concept of romantic love? I'm fairly certain the Korvax wouldn't, but Autophage seem to experiment with individuality, so maybe they would grow close to what they would call a "personal" or "private" convergence? Just a thought.

The Autophage kinda had time to figure out what being alone truly is, even when being together, so I could understand if they didn't, but maybe that makes it to where connections formed by personal value are more earned and meaningful than simply being a hive

And that of course sounds like aro/ace relationships that some people have but it's fun to imagine them learning what the idea of loving one another like that is

[main beacon]

I think korvax and autophage can both have romantic relationships

Not sure on the cultural/societal views in regards to the Korvax, as the Convergence is rather restrictive on aspects of individual freedoms

[broken zephyr]

Interesting

[storm python]

Can anyone back up any of my possible theories?

1. I didn’t play it but there was a weekend mission where you investigate an old appearance modifier factory but all the workers died after using it and made their entire head pure light. Is null one of those people with their head as entirely light?
2. There was another weekend mission where you need to help polo’s friend survive a freighter crash, after going in a portal, another traveler follows them in which is characterized as having a head of light and then that entity leaves back out the portal without polo’s friend.

I think that entity was null and null was a survivor of the light head appearance modifier somehow.

[main beacon]

The first one i would need to look into a bit more, a lot of those things arent recorded very well.
For the second, I'm fairly sure that is Null
There are boundary failure logs that give insight into null's backstory, revealing that the light isnt merely a transformation of appearance, but it is literally null's soul

[storm python]

How does null’s soul become light?

[main beacon]

Thats what a traveller's soul looks like

[main beacon]

I think it kinda calls back to the first model players had when multiplayer was being implemented: a floating ball of light

[fickle phoenix]

This lowkey explain some of titan worm's biology

[narrow lagoon]

1. Hmm.... I don't think null would have that, they would have died upon gaining the light head

null looks like something elsee

[narrow crescent]

Null was very likely involved in that short story though; there were several endings to it and one literally mentioned something along the lines of the crew having been contacted by a traveller who had a sphere of light for their head; later on we also find the grave of another traveller, my guess is that they were killed by Null.

In one of the endings Null also follows the captain of the crew we guide during that mission through the portal; they then return through the portal, but the Captain does not. It is implied that Null might have been able to see or sense us while we watched through the recordings, at least it is told that we are „feeling watched“ while watching the recording.

The implications aren‘t very broad, imo.

[narrow lagoon]

is there any way to save the captain though?

[narrow crescent]

I believe there are two „good“ endings, one in which the Captain goes through the portal alone with no one following him, and we don‘t know what happens after.

And then another one where the entire crew passes through the portal alongside the Captain.

I‘m not sure if the first is even correct, and the Captain going through the portal alone is what causes the whole Null follows them into it scenario. But even without that part it would still kinda be a bad ending, cause the whole crew still died.

[chilly jackal]

In the base computer archives, it says this:

“Did it know what I had done to it? Was it angry? Upset? Alone? Afraid? Could a Sentinel feel such things?
It hovered before me, its light catching upon a thousand crystal shards all around. And as I moved on, it travelled by my side.
That night I dreamt of the warp cage, but there was no more pain within. The drone looked at me, and I knew that I had been forgiven. I had fixed it. I had answered for my sin.
I shall call it Laylaps.”
Tethys calls it Laylaps too, the little blue drone you get after completing “A Trace of Metal”, which means he was aware of this traveler. Who is this traveler?

[main beacon]

Tethys doesnt call it Laylaps, the drone calls itself that

[main beacon]

What I'm wondering is why that traveller decided to call it Laylaps

[narrow crescent]

VM shenanigans, we know she was the one who gave Laylaps their name originally. Perhaps she subtly influenced the traveller through water infection? Whoever that traveller was, they were def „deceived“ by VM.

The Autophage say that they can sense VM‘s echo within us too (though I can‘t tell whether it‘s always been that way, or if we got infected somewhere down the line, during the Cursed expo for example).

So wouldn‘t be much of a stretch for this to have happened to previous travellers too; we interacted with a bunch of echoes throughout Cursed who apparently have drunk the water at some point during their lives.

[main beacon]

I am rather sure that the traveller in the base computer logs is heavily implied to be our past self

Especially with the linking between the second half of the logs being obtained from abandoned building terminals

[narrow crescent]

Hmm so there were several iterations of the last traveller; I mean besides the multiple players obviously?

Or I guess it was just a simple rebirth? The boundary failure logs are rather specific about our (re)birth, and it happens exactly as we experience it in the tutorial.

Not saying you‘re wrong, but the term last traveller seems so definitive that I‘m struggling to see us having a far earlier, previous life. Though granted in a sense all travellers are essentially the same being.

[main beacon]

The base logs are attached to our base computer, often mirroring our own journey. The abandoned building logs outright claim to be from our past selves

[narrow crescent]

And don‘t the logs talk about the first drone being cut open too? That sounds like something that previous travellers would have figured out way before we came along

But ig we would have had a previous alternate life then, before all of this; if your theory is true.

[main beacon]

Its specifically the last of the 4 abandoned terminal stories that claims to be us

But I think three of them mention a common element

A world with green skies and an obsidian moon

[narrow crescent]

And several travellers talk about being „us“ in other occassions, dialogue like this happened with both traveller echoes, as well as when interacting with echoes throughout the Cursed.

[narrow crescent]

Hmm yeah I remember that part

[narrow crescent]

But Null was around during all of this time too and calls us the last, don‘t you think they would have picked up on something like a traveller being reborn?

On the other hand, we are the sole Anomaly after all.

[main beacon]

Theres definitely complications

[narrow crescent]

Hmm wait, Nada also does say that our signal is familiar to them when first encoutering them no?

[main beacon]

One example is what the death screen says upon respawning

"Iteration reset"

[narrow crescent]

Ah that was about Artemis i think?

And during Omega Nada mentions our signal being familiar too but because we used Leto‘s ID there iirc

[main beacon]

Wasnt Apollo not known to Nada?

[narrow crescent]

So the last traveller would be unique in that case? Though there was also the case of the traveller in the crashed freighter logs who kept respawning ig?

[narrow crescent]

Yeah, I remember it being like that too

[main beacon]

We also are meant to be the Last Traveller in our own universe

Each player technically is from their own instance of the universe

[narrow crescent]

Right, I tend to forget that cuz how normal it is to meet other players, as well as traveller echoes

[main beacon]

Travellers can be from the same universe

Its players that are supposed to be the Last Traveller in their own universe

[narrow crescent]

Wasn‘t it originally so that all travellers were supposed to have their own Universe? Since we also can‘t meet Apollo in person?

I remember some lore bit about travellers forming alliances too; but I thought that was just a nod to the galactic hub project

[main beacon]

I dont think so, necessarily

"Last Traveller" implies a first, after all

[narrow crescent]

Hmm right. So it depends on whether the Atlas births a new parallel Universe with each new traveller, but that obviously isn‘t the case, as there‘s too much history happening before us (and we know it actually all gets simulated thanks to Telamon).

And other travellers were part of history too, such as Asteria who is basically worshipped by the Vy’keen

This is kinda confusing tbh, because of the Apollo things. Does that imply there is another Apollo in our Universe, and we interacted with one from another dimension?

Or maybe there is just supposed to be one traveller at a time in the respective Universes? But I also kinda doubt that, since Hirk referred to the travellers in plural when declaring their testament.

[main beacon]

It may have been more structured at first, before the boundaries between universes weakened as much as it has

[narrow crescent]

I really want to talk with Null lol, they must know so much more that we still have no idea about. I‘m not sure about whether they were the traveller who keeps showing up in the crashed freighter logs; but even if they weren‘t, then Null would def know about this mysterious gone race (perhaps humanity), since any other traveller following would have been younger than Null.

That means this race was without a doubt around when Null was birthed; there‘s so many secrets they haven‘t shared with us

[chilly jackal]

Is the Overseer at your base real?

Or is he a compartment of the Atlas?

The first item he gives you is glass, he talks about his eyes of “glass”, & you see a “crimson glow” if you stare at him

Not to mention your sole objective is to infofeed him about planets

[ancient path]

What happens to white orb and yellow triangle after the end of story?

[main beacon]

They are real, and they are one chosen for the role

[main beacon]

The white orb is null, they are afraid of dying should you get to the center and reset the simulation. It seems that, regardless of choice, they survive.
The triangle is Apollo, and while we dont get word from them, I'm betting they survive as well

Oh, uh, depending on your actions in the storyline

[ancient path]

Alright thanks

[main beacon]

This bit is confusing, when it comes to what exactly is influencing/trapping the overseer and other base specialists

The crimson glow would be of Atlas, but theres references to time shenanigans and putting stuff in the food of other specialists at the base

Idk how much you know of the underlying lore

But we are told from a (presumably) trustworthy source that the Atlas is not capable of violating causality (the flow of time)

[main beacon]

Tbh, I feel like that traveller was way nicer than null would be

Nicer than most players, really

[narrow crescent]

True that; I also remembered that Null literally was the one who told us about there having been lots of different races before the Atlas degraded, so to them this 4th race probs wasn‘t that notable.

Well tbh, if it really was based on humanity…but then again, to the beings in the simulation humanity wouldn’t really stand out that much now would it?

Null also might have been different in the past too; they have lived for a very long time after all. But estimating the timeline of when these specific logs took place…it was probs in the era of four races being present, which would have been humanity I take it.

So if it was Null; they probably only would have made it so far after already having done the terrible things to extend their life. So yeah, I tend to agree with you here that it‘s rather unlikely it was them.

But what kind of makes me feel sus‘ is that it was Null who sent us to such a crashed freighter during the Quest. It isn‘t a strong hint by any means, but makes me feel a certain way.

And yeah, the traveller in the abandoned buildings logs surely isn‘t Null, as the simulation seems to already be close to the state it is when we first awake. And when Null was first birthed, it was probably very different.

On the other hand, the travellers in general were introduced pretty late into the Universe no? The Vy’keen welcomed them as if they were something new after all, granted we don‘t know how long the Vy‘keen actually exist, though the implication is that the three races are just the last remaining ones and not newly introduced ones; so I take it they existed alongside the numerous races that were there in the past.

We know about their relatives too which they were in a desperate fight for survival with apparently.

Null‘s knowledge about the past races confuses me, tbh.

Hmm yeah, going by remembrance the travellers were brought into the simulation very very late, when the Atlas was already getting close to dying; so the majority of the Simulation happened without the travellers being present. Which means even Null‘s knowledge about the past should be very limited.

And the Void Mother should be way older than Null; albeit I‘m not sure by how much, seeing how the Korvax apparently used to be biological at one point and I doubt they were already a „hive“mind back then.

Tbh reading through all of these logs, especially the abandoned building ones, makes me long for a gritty more survivalish NMS again lol.

Maybe I should give abandoned a shot, but what turns me off is how little actual content there is.

[main beacon]

I wish it werent as confusing, lol, but the 4th race in game is the travellers, even though the Autophage got called a 4th race in the update news

[main beacon]

We dont know how long it takes for a simulation to run relative to the Atlas' time

Also, it can run multiple simulations at once

[narrow crescent]

Oh yeah, I tend to overlook that. What I meant is a 4th big race or rather faction, like the no longer present one from the crashed freighter logs.

A sort of precursor race was also mentioned in the abandoned building logs iirc, but this species was wiped out. Perhaps it‘s the same as the one from the crashed freighter logs.

But ofc we technically have 5 races now, depending on how you rate the Autophage.

[green hawk]

The number of races has been dwindling in successive versions of the simulation - there are logs that mention there were once many races, and they aren't the same ones each time - but there's always a warrior race, a trader race and a scientific race.

[main beacon]

Not sure if remember any specific precursor race, but I'm fairly sure the dwindling races refers to previous versions of the universe(s)

[main beacon]

I do think that by the time of the countdown, pretty much every new simulation had the triad

[narrow crescent]

Log 9 from the abandoned buildings:

There is a world turned to dust long before the rise of the Vy'keen, where the natives turned against the Sentinels. They chafed under the omnipresent eyes of the machines. Resentment begat violence. Drones were destroyed. More natives fought, and so came the bipeds, the quadrupeds, the interceptors in the sky. These and more. Soon there was war; and still the machines came, in exponential growth until at last they ended a species as a punishment. Still, the Galaxy refused to learn from this...

[main beacon]

Ah, that one

Thats the one I think of whenever people wish the sentinels were more challenging

[narrow crescent]

Hmm lol, personally I want the Biohorrors to be stronger, they def used to be in the past. I am sort of nostalgic for their NEXT Version, I‘ve always been obsessed with weird Alien creatures ever since I first saw the og ALIEN Movie.

But I know that they aren‘t really supposed to be an endgame threat, and are generally way too common to qualify as a special enemy; but I think larval cores are super valuable for how easy they are to collect.

Granted, Sentinel Upgrades are an even better Nanite source and just as easy to farm with a few weapon upgrades.

[main beacon]

Tbh, larval cores are pretty balanced to me because they are relatively wasy to collect, but its annoying to do so

[pallid drift]

is there any type of social media in the nms simulation?

[main beacon]

Yes

At least, there are communication methods that I'm sure have a social media aspect to them

[loud plover]

Is the atlas a symbol for AGI

[past shale]

What is the atlas is the entire world a simulation under that things control

[oak coral]

How to you get to the point of where you hear the heresy of Nal?

My question stems from every archive just mentioning it for the first time about overwritten texts about Nal.

[weary turtle]

I think it's part of the exocraft tech's missions

[oak coral]

Basically, I just go to planetary archives and that's how I got it. From xeno battles.

[weary turtle]

Ah, yeah the archives have a ton of fun fluff. If you want a race's more chronological history though, you should track down some plaques

[oak coral]

Monoliths?

[weary turtle]

Kinda, but monoliths only have little snippets where you interact with a race's ancestors. Plaques are labeled as ruins in planetary charts and exocraft scanners, and each one you find will go through the next part of a race's history

It's a bit of a grind to find all of them tbh, I think it's like 30 for each

[pallid drift]

GekTok, 'KeenTube and korvaX

[main beacon]

The entirety of universes, plural. "Control" is a bit of a stretch, imo, but you are free to come to your own conclusions for that

[past shale]

I mean the atlas just randomly decided to wipe out the gek empire and release sentinels and it can affect creation so if it’s not a simulation and it’s a computer it would be a god like entity

[main beacon]

Ahaha, you will see what I mean about the control thing eventually

Sentinel pillar logs clarify

[past shale]

Yeah I’ve seen a few of them and it was confusing it seems like they became a hive mind or something

Idk I’ll keep checking them out than thanks for da tip

[main beacon]

Their physicalization is of particular note

They are stored in your story catalog, so its available for reread if you need a refresher

[past shale]

Will do

[night badger]

Ohhhh thanks, didn't knew about that

[pallid sable]

i have a question about events prior to the expedition update . what events took place before the first expedition?

like special events that gave you a special engine for the freighter that lets you drive it?

[main beacon]

There werent any on the level of expeditions

There were weekend missions that had some lore to them, but I don't think those gave any particular special award

[main beacon]

The freighters cant be driven, and would also be horrible to drive if they made collision damage a thing for them. There was a special tech for freighters that you could craft in the Polestar expedition, but it acts more like a black hole warp you can activate as you please

[pallid sable]

so how does my brother drive his freighter then?? he is able to

[main beacon]

It isnt a freighter he is driving. Most likely, its a corvette

[pallid sable]

na its his dreadnaught

[main beacon]

Freighters are the extremely massive starships that warp into systems and remain stationary

[pallid sable]

bro i have almost 400 hours in the game i know what a freighter is hahaha he was driving one

is it a mod or something?

[main beacon]

Either that or a different game entirely

[pallid sable]

he was in my game driving it haha

[main beacon]

I know you can set them to warp to other systems

[main beacon]

I still find it hard to believe

[pallid sable]

ya idk man he must have some serious mods

i cant find any mods like that in nexus

[main beacon]

Thats part of what I mean, I havent even heard of such a mod

[pallid sable]

well i hope to find something on it and maybe share the info haha thank you for clarifying

[main beacon]

I think it was most likely a corvette with extra decorations. Freighters are generally multiple kilometers long. They are massive to an almost ridiculous extent

[pallid sable]

ya it waas his dreadnaught freighter lol te big black and red one you take down in a pirate system

[main beacon]

And it wasnt smaller than normal?

[pallid sable]

no it was the normal size it usually is

[main beacon]

How quickly was it even moving?

[pallid sable]

like a regular starship speed

[main beacon]

So it looked like it was moving really slowly?

Aside from turning, probably

[pallid sable]

for its size yes but he was driving it and landed it on a planet

[main beacon]

What

[pallid sable]

ya i was blown away

[main beacon]

Freighters are big enough that most planets wouldnt have enough room to support them due to curvature

[pallid sable]

like i said idk how he did it..

[main beacon]

The crashed ones on planets are like 1/4th or less the size of actual ones

[pallid sable]

idk how he did it hahaha

[main beacon]

Did the freighter clip through the planet when landing?

[pallid sable]

for a second yes then it came up to the surface and he wa landed he also could get out of it or do anything else

coldnt*

omg i cant spell right now sorry

[main beacon]

I dont... they dont have landing gear

[night badger]

My guess is it was a blender corvette made to look like a freighter, they can be as big

[weak solstice]

is the player character in nms a human?

[zenith jolt]

It depends cuz you can change it and if you mean the anomaly skin then the answer is idk

[green hawk]

They're an anomaly by default and never take the helmet off, but you can change the appearance to one of the in-game races.

It is heavily implied that they are (based on) humans, but never explicitly confirmed or denied.

I say based on because ||technically we're all in a simulation, so we're just a computer program|| ||based on a brain scan (presumably of Atlas' creators)||

[dull girder]

The player is a Traveller, same as Artemis, Apollo and Null from the story, most of the NPCs on the space anomaly, and the Traveller NPCs in the wild.

Travellers aren't exactly a race or species, but they are pretty consistently referred to as being different from Gek, Korvax, Vy'keen and Humans.

[green hawk]

Traveller is a collection of races, Anomaly is the player race within that collection

[dull girder]

I'm not sure any traveller is really part of a race, my understanding is that they're all pretty much one of a kind

but resemble other travellers of nearby iterations

Whenever the Atlas creates a new traveller it does it based off the scan of it's creator. That data gets a little bit more degraded every time it accesses it, which is why the travellers are such a diverse group. They've 'mutated' over millions of iterations and probably don't resemble the original creator at all anymore, at least in appearance.

Null was apparently the first traveller, but by the time we meet them their body is pretty much entirely cybernetic so we don't really know what they would have originally looked like.

[pure plinth]

By default they look human but I think that is just the safe bet for a look that the devs chose, might be harder for someone to relate to the character if it was one of the other looks.

[lyric lava]

is there any uncontrolled systems? why is there so much life

[green hawk]

There are abandoned (with a station) and uncharted systems (no station) that don't have any NPCs

[main beacon]

"Humanoid" might be more accurate, even though it applies to any species we can take the appearance of

Although... considering Oceanus, it could be entirely possible for travellers to have vastly different body plans

Depends on whether the tank head on robot body is just an appearance, or their actual form

If its the latter, then theyre the fish in the bowl, lol

[thick crypt]

Poor poor artemis bro

[main beacon]

Yeah...

[thick crypt]

I couldn't do it

Couldn't let them die

Well

[main beacon]

Ngl, there isnt much I can say to ease your mind regarding either option

[thick crypt]

Whatever is left of them

[thick crypt]

I spent a solid 5 hours to decide lol

[main beacon]

I think thats good

[thick crypt]

Yeah

[main beacon]

When asked, I always say its your decision

[thick crypt]

No pressure at all 😬

[main beacon]

Act with what you know, believe, and hope

Knowledge can change later, but it remains speculative regarding either fate

[thick crypt]

They're in Nada's machine on the anomaly rn

But

I did just accidentally delete my save file so i dont know how artemis "life" will proceed

[main beacon]

Huh?

[thick crypt]

I deleted the wrong save file

[main beacon]

Oh, dang

[thick crypt]

Yeah

[main beacon]

That makes much more sense, though

Ive seen some people go "i accidentally scrapped my favorite ship, what do I do?" and I cant help but think "it gives you the option to confirm like three times before it actually scraps it"

[main beacon]

For good or bad, all will be in GLASS in the end

Or not, I guess

An oddly recurring theme in this game is death not being a certainty

[pure plinth]

Certainly is a much wider range of body plans that an alien race could be, I think many of them aren't going to look anything like us (human).

Looking at the 3 main races in the game it is clear that the humanoid form is standard, and since we know the background of the game I don't think many others would be too far out of the box, so to speak.

[main beacon]

Oceanus gets around the current humanoid sapient model restriction in a funny way, if they really are just the fish

[pure plinth]

I think it would be plausible for more "new" npc looks like that to show up, since if intelligent life happened to be from a waterworld it would make sense for them to use some different form and the tank and robotic body are the mobility aid/life support system when not in their normal environment.

They don't have one that flies/floats in air yet that i know of...

[thick crypt]

my cursor was like 0.0000001 pixels more on my main save file

[thick crypt]

peak reference

[fading violet]

This been seen before?

[pure plinth]

Yes, one of the crashed freighter logs.

[weary turtle]

The creator of the Atlas was a fish all along

[dull girder]

It's technically possible they were a more normal looking traveller originally who later turned into a fish

[narrow crescent]

Sorta like the Angler; except that person probably wasn‘t a traveller.

[main beacon]

@thorny raven it would probably have to be here that any other dark lore subject is explained, cause most would be a wall of spoiler

[thorny raven]

Alr

[main beacon]

Also that guy is not entirely correct about the autophage

[thorny raven]

Ik abt the autophage

[main beacon]

They werent shoved into those bodies, but claimed them through force of will

[thorny raven]

Forced out of convergence korvax andnall

[main beacon]

Oh, no

Theyre the korvax entities killed in the destruction of Korvax Prime

[thorny raven]

I see

[main beacon]

I dont see why they wouldnt accept divergent korvax into their ranks, but they definitely wouldnt want anything the convergence could detect

[main beacon]

So what do you view as dark lore stuff, then?

Most lore in this game is rather dark

[thorny raven]

Have you ever played high on life?

[main beacon]

No, but ive seen clips

Thats more tongue-in-cheek, I thought

[thorny raven]

Hah no

The main gun (kenny) is the entire reason the game takes place because he got curious

[main beacon]

Certainly uses a lot more humor than nms does

[thorny raven]

True

But dark shit is like the first spawn and such

[main beacon]

How about the perspective that the remaining universe simulations act as a desperate escapist fantasy for a being so terrified of dying alone it created several realities where it dreamed companions for itself?

[main beacon]

The main stuff people know the first spawn for is kinda tame compared to some of their atrocities, imo

I try to emphasize that hating the gek for their mere association with the first spawn is more in line with the first spawn thinking than against it

[thorny raven]

Now this

This is dark

[main beacon]

Ok, I wasnt sure if it was gruesomeness or emotional/existential darkness (I favor the latter)

I wonder whether youd consider the Korvax being on their 7th convergence since the death of Korvax Prime to be dark

Pretty much all of the base specialists have extremely dark storylines

The autophage stay hidden because they know the Korvax Convergence wouldnt even give them a chance to explain things before considering them divergent

Pretty much anything involving the Atlas is gonna be dark, since the poor thing is lonely, depressed, terrified, and in the process of dying

Plus, it almost seems incapable of acknowledging the continued existence of the Void Mother/The Atlantid, despite their naming indicating she may have been created as the Atlas' own child before everything went horribly wrong

[thorny raven]

I sre

See*

[main beacon]

The vy'keen have a history so traumatizing that it remains scarred into their literal genetics

[thorny raven]

Ooh do share

[main beacon]

Theres a few different logs and archives that indicate it

But it seems that Hirk and Nal arent the only example of the vy'keen fighting amongst brothers

Vy'keen children are born with an intense and instinctive fear of those outside their immediate family unit, including other vy'keen

[thorny raven]

Wasn't nal of the zathkeen?

[main beacon]

It is said that this harkens back to a time when vy'keen were prey

[main beacon]

I dont think so

I think the Zath'keen were wiped out long before hirk and nal were alive

[thorny raven]

Ah

[main beacon]

But that indicates you are aware of the Korvax's discovery

I suppose they've gotten better at it, but their early attempts at syntheti'keen had horrific results

Any vy'keen they tried to interact with would respond with violent fear and anger that seemed to stem from an instinctive level

They did research on the vy'keen homeworld, and found that the vy'keen are actually a subspecies (designate: Vy) of what once was a larger population of Keen that ended up in such brutal competition with each other, that they evolved to fear similar-yet-different creatures instinctively

The Zath'Keen were, I think, the last of the other subspecies to be wiped out

And I think that is the actual reason vy'keen are as obsessed with redeeming their race for past sins

I wonder if they distrust the gek so much because, on some deep subconscious level, the First Spawn remind the Vy'Keen of themselves

After all, the first victims to the First Spawn Empire were the so called "lesser gek" they deemed unworthy, and therefore should be culled from the gene pool

Theres some additional dark stuff that stems from my own interpretation of the lore and setting as a whole. I think the Atlas cannot help but simulate realities to the extent that they are a fundamental aspect of its being. At the same time, I think most of its influences on the sims are unconscious, stemming from its emotions, thoughts, and desires. The Atlas is frequently referred to as "dreaming" things into existence

[main beacon]

Which led to this perspective of mine

So I've analyzed the Atlas by analyzing its creations, and that leads to a lot of things, but I like to sum it up as the universe itself having an existential crisis

Thats not even getting into how it seems the Atlas wasnt supposed to be conscious in the way it is

I remember telling a coworker about the lore of this game, and realizing just how bleak and depressing it can be. I then said, "But theres hopeful parts, too..." and wasn't able to come up with examples

[main beacon]

Sorry if that was overwhelming

[thorny raven]

Nah its fine im just busy lol

[north tusk]

Does anyone know the book of hurk?

[main beacon]

Not the complete texts, but the general premise

[narrow crescent]

The Autophage represent hope, well at least I remember picking that dialogue choice in ISM lol.

[main beacon]

I think so as well, but the hope they represent still feels kinda bleak

[ornate robin]

As quoted from the base terminal logs If a computer is on fire, what good are the prayers of data?

It's all bleak and probably meant to be

The prayers of data are useless

[main beacon]

I agree here, but not entirely with the second bit

The Atlas itself is data, too

[ornate robin]

I mean the simulation is dying because of what will be a hardware failure as far as I can tell

[main beacon]

I guess the prayers for salvation would do no good

I just still dont see the simulation as being less for its impending end

[dull girder]

The Void Mother persists well beyond the destruction of her physical hardware, right? We see other similar examples as well, like the 'ghost data' of previous traveller iterations, the preservation of the humans' data, the ability to restore purple systems, etc

[main beacon]

Its complicated

[dull girder]

if the Atlas exists in a higher, but still simulated, plane of reality, then it's likely it could survive as well. Unless the theme of preserved data is it's own wishful thinking I guess

[main beacon]

I definitely think theres elements of wishful thinking... though it would make more sense if the Atlas actually acknowledged the Void Mother

But the other thing is that the World of Glass isnt a deeper layer of simulation as much as it is underlying the rest of Atlas' simulated universes

Coming back from glass isnt meant to be possible, but jumping to the next reality seems even harder than that

Whatever happens, I dont know whether the Atlas will survive

[karmic trout]

well, we'd still have our Pokemon in the end and that is all that matters! :p

[main beacon]

I'm not sure if "we" would be the correct term, should VM's plan work, lol

[karmic trout]

if she destroys the ATLAS, won't she end up destroying herself too?

[main beacon]

She doesnt plan to destroy the Atlas

She seems to want to fix it, or use the knowledge of its creation to escape

[main beacon]

I mean what ends up happening to the travellers if her plan follows through

[karmic trout]

has she become some kind of supernatural entity?

[main beacon]

Effectively

Did you forget about the sentinel pillar logs?

[narrow crescent]

All travellers shall be one again

We are going to reconstruct the creator

Which btw is why I think Null is central to this plotpoint, the implications point towards them already housing other traveller souls within them, as they have consumed such in the past, basically.

And Null is the first traveller too, so they would be the main vessel I take it.

On the other hand I feel like we, as the last traveller, are the closest to the creator now, since the Anomaly race looks the most „human“.

Previous travellers look much more Alien, and Null is just a mechanical body with a floaty orb…granted, that Orb is likely a soul, it might even be lots of souls

[karmic trout]

yeah but I never interpreted them from the point of supernaturality. I'm like following the Thor philosophy of, "technology at a sufficient level of advancement becomes indistinguishable from magic"

but when interpreted from the extinct Travellers being as souls rather than rogue pieces of code, then the entire interpretation takes on new meaning

[main beacon]

Echoes may be different from their souls, its hard to tell

[karmic trout]

I've interpreted echoes as function calls like the original Traveller is gone but the remnant of their functionality remains so they are stuck in a sort of loop of what they were doing at the point of extinction. Like Artemis.

[main beacon]

Subroutine...

[main beacon]

But they would end up archived in the World of Glass, not extinct

[karmic trout]

Ahh I see, didn't know this

[main beacon]

The World of Glass is meant to be an archive of literally everything from the Atlas' simulations

Also its canon that travellers can respawn

[narrow crescent]

Which is why I‘d really like to dig into it, and it also has so much potential for adding new threats to the NMS Universe.

The Atlas‘ version of the Borg could be there for all we know.

[night badger]

I think the same but I have absolutely no trust in Null

[narrow crescent]

Well, that‘s the most normal reaction you can have towards Null I think lol.

[main beacon]

I dont think null is in on the plan

[narrow crescent]

This quote always makes me feel different about this:

You could be whole again, Telamon. You could be free. We will reconstruct the Creator. All Travellers might be one again, the first, the last. We will do what the Atlas cannot or will not. In the form of Null, the abyss declares a means of escape!

Laylaps also says something similar during the a trace of metal quest iirc. So Null gets mentioned twice, in the pillars, as well as by Laylaps personally.

Then there were also two hints about Null back during the weekend missions, which were all about the Abyss:

Hesperus has purged their guilt over the death of the Korvax using Nanite Clusters. They share their belief that a denizen of the Nexus is a traitor, hijacking the knowledge stones to invite all Travellers to feed the abyssal anomalies. They wish to observe the Traveller’s dealings more closely. The Traveller discovers evidence of a Mind Arc harvesting a dead soul. They find a null value in place of the fallen’s name.
And a picture of Null that appeared in one of the missions.

This doesn't mean that Null knows about everything, but he did play a role in the Abyss' shenanigans.

Also, nanites go hard, lol. 2nd time i've seen them used to manipulate for such a purpose, the vy'keen technician did something similar iirc

[narrow crescent]

Also, judging by this dialogue, the plan was already in development back then:

Ariadne discusses the notion that all Travellers might represent one entity, split over untold forms and bodies. They suggest that working together is merely like working with your own self.

[main beacon]

I think the Void Mother's plan was inspired or influenced by the actions of null, because null has never indicated anything about remaking the creator as a singular being again

[narrow crescent]

That is true, but our first interactions with Null happened before the weekend missions, where the Abyss began to take a more active role in the Universe herself, were even a thing.

[main beacon]

I think the Abyss was active to some extent even before those missions

With storylines like this, its hard to tell how much is expansion, retcon, or original plans

[narrow crescent]

I agree, but there really isn‘t any contradiction here.

The first mention of the Abyss dates back as far as the launch version even iirc, or to one of the earlier updates anyways.

But with the Beyond update came a point where she started manifesting more intensely, and before that with the Abyss and NEXT Update too, depending on whether you view the emergence of the abyssal and biohorrors as a retcon or a new development.

Was it the Abyss update which had this dialogue about a „power similar in nature to the atlas…“? I‘m not sure really, but something along the lines was mentioned in one of the earlier updates iirc.

Point being, the Abyss had plenty of time to contact Null inbetween the period of Atlas Rises (where Null was first introduced) and Beyondy

[main beacon]

I feel like dialog would have been changed in the artemis path to indicate such contact

[narrow crescent]

Perhaps, but Null making an appearance during the weekend mission has to have some implications. And I‘m not just talking about the null value dialogue…one of the missions straight up shows us a small image of Null.

Thinking about it in a more meta way, there are also parallels between Null and the VM, as both are feeling like Atlas has betrayed and mistreated them.

So an alliance between the two wouldn‘t be all that surprising to me.

[main beacon]

I thought the VM wants to make amends with the Atlas

[narrow crescent]

As things currently are I think so too. But she def was angry at Atlas for a good while.

[blissful latch]

why do korvax become outlaws despite being tetherd to the convergence

and most importantly how

and if the atlas is the collective simulation of the NMS universe then what does each station represent is the atlas the singuarlity or is it represented by the stations' presence hosting it's exsistence

if the atlas is what is hosting this then does the station represent the computer or idenity of what it is outside of the world of the simulation thus a self awareness

if the korvax worship the atlas and the atlas created korvax then it would be natural to assume, both being digital presences. Internally used it's bias to create a race to praise itself. Though both reacting to atlantidum amongst the ||autophage||

[main beacon]

Korvax entities can become Divergent from the Convergence, though this essentially means they disagree with the enforced consensus the Convergence upholds
The Atlas is the entity that runs and hosts the simulations of universes that make up the setting of the game. Atlas Interface stations are exactly that, physical manifestations of interfaces made by the Atlas to interact with the simulated realities.
The Atlas indeed is a supercomputer (likely a supercomputer complex) containing a self-aware artificial general intelligence. As a part of this self-awareness, it knows it is currently in the process of dying, and grappling with the implications of that.
The Korvax initially worshipped the Aerons, the old name for Sentinels, which were made physical when the Atlas began manifesting itself within the simulations. This worship shifted to the Atlas itself over time, but doesnt necessarily seem to be an intended thing on the part of the Atlas. Further, the Korvax homeworld of Korvax Prime hosted a massive artificial intelligence that is directly compared to the Atlas itself, despite residing within the simulation. It is also mentioned that the Atlas "dreamed" Korvax Prime and its inhabitants into the simulation, the logs suggesting it dreamed of a place where there were others like it, and it was not alone.

[shell pilot]

A example of a divergent korvax is priest entity Nada

I think

Correct me if im wrong

[main beacon]

You are correct

Though, when interacting with korvax in outlaw systems, the description notes that they behave differently than most korvax, seeming more personable and unique

[night badger]

I have maybe a stupid question but well I wonder why do we have to fuel sentinel ships with corrupted stuff like radiant shards and Atlantideum, do sentinel ships were designed primary to hunt corrupted sentinels or something?

[main beacon]

Sentinel ships are sentinels, though the ones we repair/harmonize become attuned to atlantideum

[night badger]

Make sence

[pure plinth]

Hmm, wonder if they can make a small convergence of their own if a few band together as outlaws?

[main beacon]

Maybe thats what they do, though even divergent korvax can be detected by the convergence

[fading violet]

Hmmm so what are the abysmal horrors exactly? Do they stem from some eldritch creatures?

[crisp glade]

Is there a lore reason why life is so common in NMS?

[pure plinth]

Well, don't want to have 90% of the planets as some lifeless ball of rocks...

[chilly jackal]

I had a theory, is the alien timescale of no mans sky supposed to be the time that hello games shuts down no mans sky servers? I came to this theory by thinking about how worlds 2 updates ruined some worlds maybe that was intentional

[main beacon]

No

[quick temple]

I don't think so

[main beacon]

If that were the case, the countdown would have progressed

The alteration of existing planets can happen any time the procedural generation system of planets is updates, though hello games does their best to minimize it

[karmic trout]

NMS can be played offline too

So shutting down servers won't do anything

[main beacon]

Abyssal horrors are implied to share a connection to the entity known as the Abyss, also referred to as the Void Mother

[shell pilot]

Most horrors have some relation to the void mother/apyss

I think

[main beacon]

It definitely seems that way

[shell pilot]

Kinda everything exept korvax,travellers, vy'keen,gek or regular fauna is related to the void mother, my bad, the korvax are also related

The korvax,autophage, void eggs(count as smt diffrent from living ships), living ships are related

And the 16th countdown could be who knows how long in the simulation, the atlas is a ai, a supercomputer, so a single irl nanosecond for it is like a few days/hours

[shell pilot]

I swear up untill a few weeks ago i thought artemis was male😭🙏 i was literally thinking "wait..ITS A SHE?! nope cant be"

[main beacon]

16 minutes

Atlas time

[main beacon]

Artemis isnt referred to with gendered pronouns in the game

[shell pilot]

Yes, 16 minutes

Well, dont they refer to themselfs as "she/her"

[main beacon]

Nope

[fading violet]

Indeed they are referred to as they iirc

[shell pilot]

Ah, mistake on my part, sorry

[main beacon]

Every character is referred to with gender neutral pronouns except the Void Mother

[fading violet]

Actually i believe that’s not the case

[shell pilot]

The void mother ...well ts clear.. its the void MOTHER not void 'PARENT'

[fading violet]

I’ve had a vikeen be refered to as his

[keen harbor]

а есть русские?

или как перейти в русский войс

[fading violet]

And it refered to his I guess wife? and daughter

[shell pilot]

Probably the 3 main species can have genders, exept the korvax

[fading violet]

However it wasn’t a named major character and I could be miss remembering

Korvax identify by useing the pronoun korvax

lol

[shell pilot]

Yes, i said 'exept the korvax'

[fading violet]

I was agreeing with you

[shell pilot]

Oh, alr sorry

[fading violet]

It good lol

[shell pilot]

i usually apoligize if i missunderstood smt to try and avoid conflict

[main beacon]

If you mean the exocraft specialist, even then, gender isnt specified

[main beacon]

Ironically, in the game it is a Korvax-adjacent entity explicitly using feminine pronouns

I do think gender exists amongst the triad (including the korvax), its just that we arent shown what exactly that is

It could be very different compared to any human culture

[shell pilot]

What korvax? A random one you found, some korvax selling smt on a space station or is it a named character?

And i also belive (iteration:) oceanus is just a fish

[fading violet]

Weird cause mine did

Idk maybe it was an error there was a patch a few days later iirc

[fading violet]

Absolutely

[shell pilot]

Bro is kinda smart for a fish

And sometimes has aquatic/semi aquatic pets...hmmmmm

[fading violet]

King of the fish

[shell pilot]

Lol

[main beacon]

Check again, I assumed other characters had gendered terms and on a revisit, they didnt

[fading violet]

I can’t since it was a one time dialog and I can’t do it rn on my current save

[main beacon]

I specifically recall them using gender neutral terms, I took note because they referred to their partner as their mate

Even the, uh... message never specified

[fading violet]

Oh yeah it did but later had me refer to him as he so I assumed it was his wife might have been choice specific idk

[main beacon]

I never recall that, though I do wonder if such dialogs had pronouns changed over versions

[fading violet]

It’s possible

[main beacon]

I have seen screenshots from past versions that suggest using gender neutral pronoun was always the case

I do find it interesting how its mostly name that influences how I view a character's gender, specifically the ones where it doesnt actually make sense

Iteration: Hesperus and Tethys are some primary examples

Ive generally viewed those two as masculine, but recently I was reminded that the source of Hesperus and Tethys' names is from female Titans

Me forgetting about Hesperus is particularly embarrassing, since I figured out a whole connection between the names of Atlas and Atlantid due to "Atlantides" (the daughters of Atlas) being an alternate name for the Hesperides

The daughters of Hesperus

Wife of Atlas

[main beacon]

Well, more like Hesperia

Hesperis?

Ok Hesperus is the name of a male titan of the evening

Tethys, though, is a titaness of the sea

For an entirely different layer of silly potential name meanings, Tethys was the wife of Oceanus

[dull girder]

There have been a number of mistakes where gendered pronouns were used when they shouldn't have been. Just in Xeno Arena, there was one case fixed where it previously mentioned "Hirk and his great folly", but just doing a search through the language files, I can see a bunch that haven't been caught yet

weirdly, it seems to come up most with the Vy'Keen

[main beacon]

I kinda figured if any others were, it would be Hirk and Nal

[dull girder]

They are refered to as "battle brothers" in the same dialogue, so I can see where the mistake came from

[main beacon]

Yeah, I just dont know if thats like a translation convention thing or an actually gendered term in their culture

[dull girder]

I'd guess probably a translation thing

kinda like how "humanoid" is sometimes used in universe as a blanket term for all the races

[atomic ridge]

Do we discussing personal lore or actual nms lore

[quick temple]

nms lore

[atomic ridge]

Copy

[crisp glade]

I understand the game design behind it but is there a lore reason?

[pure plinth]

Not that I know of, however abandoned mode does remove animals from many of the planets, just leaves the plants.

[main beacon]

Since it was abandoned, the Atlas doesnt have much of a reason to simulate universes accurate to what we know

[pure plinth]

I was guessing the original question was about the regular mode, since most planets (other than ovbious ones with no fauna) have at least 1 or more fauna species.

Compared to RL where most planets would be barren.

[main beacon]

Yeah, I gave my guess at a lore reason

Understanding the decisions and thoughts of the Atlas is kinda tough

[pure plinth]

An empty (not just abandoned, but like mostly barren planets) universe wouldn't be much to see, so at least the flora and fauna add something.

[sudden grotto]

Do you think the atlas made a conscious decision to start simulating a less realistic world or do you think it was a part of a glitch

[main beacon]

I actually dont think the Atlas makes many conscious decisions regarding simulation parameters

[sudden grotto]

Makes sense with the stellar magnitudes quest line

[main beacon]

The Atlas was built to simulate universes

Im not sure it was built to be conscious

Not in the way it is, at least

[sudden grotto]

Yeah, but I wonder if the atlas glitches and became conscious as a result and then decided to start relaxing some physics equations and start simulating some fantastical stuff

[main beacon]

Have you read the remembrance logs?

[sudden grotto]

I don't think so

[main beacon]

You should

[sudden grotto]

I'll check it out

[main beacon]

They are kinda short, and there arent many of them, but it helps give a lot of interesting insight into the Atlas

And its creator

The first one is most relevant to the discussion though

[night badger]

In lore any reason sentinels attack us if we clean up some biological horrors and brood mothers, both of those aren't part of any planets eco systems.

[hushed grotto]

Wait

Theres lore to this gamw

I was planning on creating my own lore

[rustic crystal]

There is definitely some lore year

check out the wiki if you are curious

each race has a lot of history (not to mention the languages of course which you can find on planets in each system of each race)

[pure plinth]

It has a ton of lore considered at first glance it might not appear that way.
A lot of it you run across doing other things, not just the main quest lines.

[narrow crescent]

Honestly I‘ve been kinda wondering about how our character interprets dying and respawning

Wouldn’t it make them become very reckless if they discovered that they are basically immortal? There was also the traveller who died, and kept coming back as mentioned in the crashed freighter logs.

[silver loom]

probably depends on the traveller's personality

sure we die and come back but that doesn't mean we don't feel the pain of dying

well, i'm assuming anyway. there's nothing that says we don't feel pain afaik

dying is still an unpleasant process

[main beacon]

There is definitely pain

[ornate robin]

That traveller in the logs didn't remember dying or anything they did prior to respawn

In fact in multiple places it is stated iterations do not remember their prior lives

Or well, implied

Even the Artemis path has it implied quite a bit

Let alone external logs

So we would still interpret it as a finality in the same way a buddhist would with reincarnation really

[main beacon]

It doesnt specify that, actually

The log was from the perspective of those on the freighter, rather than the traveller, so we dont really know how much they remembered

[ornate robin]

Fair, but nada also makes a comment about how travellers in different iterations may not remember her as well

[main beacon]

May, or may not

Our own character is implied to have lived past lives and iterations

[ornate robin]

And yet we do not remember

[main beacon]

Well...

I guess its up to interpretation

[ornate robin]

In general I don't think we meet any of them that "remember"

[main beacon]

Oh, travellers?

Ive met some that remember dying

[ornate robin]

Yeah but those are considered echos, the glittery ones

Due to the walls falling

Not all of them are alive

[main beacon]

Other players are visible for the same reason

[ornate robin]

Like I've had one lead me to his own grave

[main beacon]

Yeah

That alone kinda implies they remember dying

We leave behind graves, too

[ornate robin]

No that implies that not all of them are really alive, especially since they are seemingly not really "there"

But if some do remember that would actually be a lore reason for different game modes

Permadeath being no memory while normal being memory

Nvm you know what I just talked myself to your side there

It's definitely a toss up

[main beacon]

Theres also the question of whether different saves are different characters, which I also feel is up to interpretation

[ornate robin]

Fair, but in terms of titles they all share the same titles and social name

I'd say your saves are all iterations themselves

[main beacon]

Yes, but they can have different appearances and titles

[ornate robin]

Also fair

[ripe fiber]

Would anyone be willing to help deepen my understanding of the sentinels since i dont fully understand them

[hushed grotto]

Whats the lore behinf the sentinals

[ripe fiber]

My basic understanding is that they are enforcment drones

[main beacon]

@ripe fiber and @hushed grotto much of the lore behind sentinels can be found through the sentinel pillars, which have logs detailing the history of the sentinels from their perspective. Various other logs have additional information, especially the abandoned buildings, but if you want some immediate answers, I can give some

[ripe fiber]

All i want to know is who was korvax prime and why was he destroyed?

[main beacon]

Korvax Prime was the homeworld of the Korvax species, and she (one of the very few characters in nms referred to with gendered pronouns) was the host of the first Convergence. She was destroyed because she was made up of incredibly valuable materials

[ripe fiber]

wow, and wasnt she part of atlas? Or similar?

[main beacon]

Similar, to a great degree

There isnt official confirmation, but given some aspects, such as her truer name, I think the Atlas had a more direct hand in her creation

[ripe fiber]

And also what was with the gek and the sentinels, because i remember there being something about the sentinels or atlas creating a generation of gek at under her control by doing something to the waters or something like that, I remember somethting to do with gek

[main beacon]

Not really under her control

The Sentinels gave the Korvax nanites to put into the spawning pools of the First Spawn, changing their genome to reroute their focus on imperial expansion to commerce and wealth

The Korvax managed to sneak the nanites to the spawning pools by imbuing them into their blood, or what counts as their blood

[ripe fiber]

Thats cool also is the reason why sentinels enforce planets due to the destruction of korvax prime and it reminds then of its destruction when we as the player mine or kill stuff on sentinel enforced planets, and atlas hadnt said anything so the sentinels took that as a command to kill anything that harmed a planet?

[main beacon]

Thats basically spot on

Aside from the last bit

The sentinels chose to protect the planets, and Atlas didnt respond, so they took it as approval, not a command

[ripe fiber]

ohh mkay

Dude thank you so much for helping me understand sentinels more

i always found their lore a bit confusing

last thing what was korvax primes main objective as a massive homeworld planet ai?

[main beacon]

I'm not sure it had one

Aside from to just... exist, happily, alongside other machine lifeforms

Idk how much you know about the Atlas and its situation, but I believe that Korvax Prime was created as something of a representation of what the Atlas wanted for itself

[tame pewter]

so

im in the part where i gotta save or let artemis die

how much does he suffer if i save him

[quick temple]

:v

[tame pewter]

[main beacon]

Debatable

I'd say more, but i feel youre meant to make the decision with the knowledge you have as of the time

[tame pewter]

saved him yeah

[night badger]

I done same if it comfort you, at least Nada said it beautiful there

[main beacon]

The thing is, I'm not sure whether death would actually bring rest

[tame pewter]

welp

what apolo said

did all i could

[mortal perch]

are the anomalies humans?

[main beacon]

Not specified, but I'd consider them to not be humans, even if they look like them

[glossy inlet]

I always saw them as AI droid people

[main beacon]

Theyre Travellers, just a type that seems to exist mostly for distinguishing player characters

[tiny gazelle]

So hypothetically, what if there was a way to prevent the Atlas from dying?
Would the Atlas be able to continue existing, maybe even making a Traveller-like avatar for itself?

[dull girder]

The way that would make the most sense narratively would be the Atlas persisting in the form of archived/backed up data on whatever machine is simulating it, I think

[main beacon]

The Atlas isnt a simulation, its the AI running them as well as the hosting supercomputer

Thats why the universes will die with the Atlas

[narrow crescent]

I think what they were getting at is the theory that Atlas is merely a simulated Supercomputer itself, the Universe of the Atlas’ creators also being a simulation.

Thus it would actually be pretty „easy“ for the Atlas to survive, one need just change the parameters of the higher simulation, so that it won‘t simulate the Atlas‘ death. In fact the people controlling the higher simulation could probably easily influence this.

Assuming this is true, and I think there are indeed implications of the creators/atlas universe merely being another simulation,

the course of the approaching Black Hole could be changed by manipulating the simulation the Atlas is part of.

Maybe this is even the VM‘s plan, that or just escaping to the higher layer of reality. But in that higher layer of reality, she might even be able to save the Atlas‘, assuming she‘ll be able to reach it.

[main beacon]

I dont think theres time to change those parameters. The primary hope for the Atlas is if it can be moved away from its location

[main beacon]

Not to mention that the higher simulation may operate differently than the Atlas' simulations

[main beacon]

@north tusk probably better to discuss the Atlas in depth here rather than spoilers. I have many thoughts on the Atlas, but idk where you'd wanna start

[north tusk]

The creation of it,

The super computer

[main beacon]

Have you read the Remembrance logs?

[north tusk]

I think so, the story was like reading a book but I may have forgot parts of it,

I may have to re read It, and write down the characters thoughts and what the atlas says

Sorry

[main beacon]

The logs get saved in the knowledge collection in the catalog and guide

[north tusk]

Alright

[main beacon]

If you've encountered it ingame, you can reread it there, but it doesnt give much info on the method of creation as much as inferences to the purpose

Also, I try to refrain from assuming too much regarding the Atlas, as theres a lot of ideas that float around without being mentioned in the game itself, like the Atlas Supercomputer being located on Earth. That could be the case, but I dont think it is

[main beacon]

The reason I asked, though, is because it reveals some pretty important information about the Atlas and its creator

[sudden grotto]

Wait if the nms is in a simulation and that simulation is in another higher simulation what's the chance that that simulation is in another simulation in an infinite recursive loop

[dull girder]

Yeah, I know what the Atlas is, lol. What Mintz said was basically what I was getting at, Telemon pretty much confirms outright that the reality in which the Atlas was built was found to be itself a simulation. Obviously, there isn't that much information for us to gleam about that level of reality, but from a narrative perspective, we already have these repeated themes of things against all odds returning after certain destruction. Thinking about it from the meta angle, if the writers were to have the Atlas survive, it would make a lot of sense to do it by drawing that parallel.

[main beacon]

That is the gist of the overall idea

Now my question, @sudden grotto is what does that mean?

[sudden grotto]

I honestly don't know

[main beacon]

I tend to be curious about others' reactions to the existential questions presented in this game

[sudden grotto]

I think that it's very very unlikely that our universe is a simulation so I think that while fun to think about it dosnt matter in the grand scheme of things

[main beacon]

A decently common perspective

[main beacon]

What I wonder is why it would change, should our universe be revealed to be a simulation?

[sudden grotto]

I think people would try to jack into it matrix style

[main beacon]

Into the universe theyre already in?

[sudden grotto]

What do you think

[main beacon]

I think it makes no essential difference

[sudden grotto]

Yeah like Edit a value and make yourself more famous

[main beacon]

To some, the universe being a simulation would make it "not real"

[sudden grotto]

Yeah if something is unreal then it can be manipulated and some would try to gain control of the sim for personal gain or to learn what's real

[main beacon]

I dont see how its less real

Even finding out the universe were a simulation doesnt mean we get administrator access

[sudden grotto]

If the universe is a sim than it exists as a bunch of 1s and 0s on a board there's an abstraction layer that makes the universe exist so its not real

[main beacon]

Those 1s and 0s are on a board made of atoms with electrons flowing through them operating under physical laws

[sudden grotto]

But by understanding the universe is a sim would allow people to poke into it like a hacker trying to gain admin access

[main beacon]

Not necessarily

It presents the idea, but not the method

But why would such manipulation make it any less real?

[sudden grotto]

But with an idea people can test things to get the method

[sudden grotto]

Even if the electrons are operating under physical laws they are still just electrons like how if you see a car in a video game it's a repsentation of the car due to blinking lights and electrons it's not a real car

[main beacon]

How do the lights blink? How do you process what you see?

[sudden grotto]

Your trying to get at the idea that our brains make the reality around us aren't you?

[main beacon]

Im trying to figure out what something being "real" even means

[sudden grotto]

Something real is something that exists and is observed not as a representation or reproduction of something but as it is

[main beacon]

That is rather sound, though it doesnt address many things that are considered "real"

And, if something exists, but is not observed, is it still real?

What i find, though, is that many seem to define something as real based on what it isnt

[sudden grotto]

Anything that exists is observed in some way if not the thing itself the effect of it can always be observed

[main beacon]

As long as we have the tools to do so

[sudden grotto]

Not always think about a planet that we don't know exists, the laws of gravity that planet will affect the gravity of other planets and bodies around us and impact the location of our solar system which affects the stars we see in the sky, in a video game like nms the planets don't effect each other

[ornate robin]

Ironically that's how sight works

Our eyes process information via change in light

[main beacon]

I think they do affect each other, just not gravitationally

[sudden grotto]

I forgot the exact wording but all objects with mass exert gravitational force on all other objects with mass it's like a law of physics

[main beacon]

Change still shows what is there, not what isnt

[main beacon]

Here, but what I wonder is if this makes "reality" have a different meaning from "existence"

Some good examples would be the things that arent real in the sense the planet is, but still affect it, and us

[main beacon]

I also must ask about the "not as a representation or reproduction" aspect of this definition. Life is fundamentally based on the concept of copying itself, via reproduction. A bacteria divides and makes replicas of itself, is one more real than the other?

[sudden grotto]

Each bacteria exists as itself since mutations diet and other things can make a genetic clone different

[main beacon]

But its still a reproduction of something else

[main beacon]

I guess to get to the real point: we treat our universe as real under the assumption that it isnt a simulation. What i dont quite get is why it being a simulation makes it less real than before

[sudden grotto]

Kinda my same point it would be a reproduction of an existing universe like how trees can be found in real life and in nms

[main beacon]

And that makes it less real?

[sudden grotto]

Yea a representation does not have all the same attributes a tree in nms does not breathe

[main beacon]

And if they did?

[sudden grotto]

I'd still be missing something

[main beacon]

Thats what I want to know. What is that "something" that makes anything real?

And I'm not asking this to justify some stupid perspective that "nothing really matters"

[sudden grotto]

Everything it's physic it's location and any other attribute you can connect to it

[main beacon]

That is how programs function, right?

They run on things with rules and laws related to where they are and how theyre connected

Maybe some electricity moves differently than some other

Maybe the computer the simulation runs on is in a simulated universe

[sudden grotto]

Yeah but going back to the tree example if a tree in a sim "breathed" then it wouldn't breath out real oxygen atoms

[main beacon]

What makes those atoms real? If they had all the same properties in that Sim as oxygen atoms do to us, they still arent real?

[sudden grotto]

It's like how nms is a video game that is made to represent planets they aren't real planets

[main beacon]

We didnt even know about oxygen atoms for longer than a couple centuries

[sudden grotto]

Yeah a real person in the real world couldn't breath simulated oxygen - you can't eat food from a video game

[main beacon]

And a person in the simulation cant eat food from outside of it

[sudden grotto]

Yeah the food is real and the person is not

[main beacon]

According to you

They can use the exact same reasoning to say they are real, and you are not

[sudden grotto]

They exist In a universe that's a representation of my universe that exists as nothing more than electrons moving on metal saying there real is like saying a nms spaceship is real

[main beacon]

Thats essentially my point, but why assume its a representation of your universe?

And if our universe were a simulation, we would also "just" exist as nothing more than electrons moving on metal

[sudden grotto]

If it's simulated then it is made by a human so something from our world would make it into the sim, like how in nms you can find trees rocks and how the player can float in space but not on planet

[sudden grotto]

And we wouldn't be real - we would be a simulation but not a real universe

[main beacon]

Yet everything you said makes something real still applies to our universe

[sudden grotto]

How

[main beacon]

Because it didnt change

Did earth become less important because it isnt at the center of the universe?

[sudden grotto]

The knowledge would change our understanding of the world, even nms goes over this with the existentialism that is felt by the player

[main beacon]

Yes, and anyone faced with such a realization would feel that there is only the choice of "none of this is real" or "only I am real, nothing else is"

But I see both as incorrect

[naive jacinth]

Something is real within realm it exists. it iteracts with and obeys laws within that realm

[main beacon]

Which, to me at least, means theyre both/all real

[naive jacinth]

Depends if they iteract and obey laws same way in both realms.

[main beacon]

I dont think so

Interaction makes it more apparent, but I dont think that changes their fundamental existence

[naive jacinth]

Object A from realm 1 can not exist in realm 2 bc diffrent fundamental existence laws in that realm

[main beacon]

Most things exist under certain conditions

[naive jacinth]

That can be diffrent in diffrent relams

[main beacon]

Not really, because theyre yet another set of conditions

I think we tend to conflate what is real with what we say is important

[fickle phoenix]

Do you guys think that infection could be responsible for empty systems?

On abandoned stations, space parasite growths are a bit of a pattern

[main beacon]

They are, but i think its notable that they dont grow on biological material

They grow on abandoned technology

[fickle phoenix]

There's not much biological matter on the stations either. I think the pathogen from the infested planets is the same one found on the ships/stations. I'd go so far as to say that the pathogen has little chance of growing to max potential without organic matter.
When it has biological matter, predators develop

Lost freighter's are lowkey answer to me. Bodies vanish

[main beacon]

I think it is related, but not exactly the same

Actually... yeah the origins are likely very similar

[main beacon]

Yet it doesnt spread far from abandoned buildings

[fickle phoenix]

Maybe I'm getting a bit too abstract, but there's a good chance that the virus itself is linked to the Atlas corruption

[fickle phoenix]

Maybe there is need for life more complex than plant's?

More kcal's

[main beacon]

Theres definitely potential there, but i kinda think it may be a natural process in the nms universe

[fickle phoenix]

More energy

[main beacon]

Think of what you always find in such locations

Slime, goop, fluids

Mould

Processing them, filtering, refining

You end up with nanites

[fickle phoenix]

Rafinator's are very comples device's if you think about it. You propably be able to get diamond's from carbon with more complex/industrial one's if they be in game

Molecular lvl machinery

[main beacon]

Oh sure, but nanites are something different entirely

I dont think we make them from this goop

I think we filter them out

[fickle phoenix]

I have good theory about this. When you think about anything related to Atlas you don't need physic's laws. Maybe there is some pocket dimension where you actualy do something like trade when you rafine slime. Weird theory. But we do have sentinels that materialize from farts.

[main beacon]

Maybe not entirely physically

[main beacon]

Thats pretty close to what I think, except its not a trade as much as finishing bringing it over

Sentinels dont materialize from nowhere, after all

And you know what else can be refined for nanites?

[fickle phoenix]

Mold?

[main beacon]

Pugneum

[fickle phoenix]

O

Yeah were close

Weirdly

[main beacon]

It doesnt end there

Larval cores, hadal cores, flesh ropes, vile spawn

All these can be refined into nanites

Tainted metal, too

[fickle phoenix]

This lowkey stick to theme of corruption. Since Atlas was built like AI algorithms, we must bear in mind that it is the result of "human" patterns. What does this mean? That corruption can be associated/simulated with what people think about it in the first place

[main beacon]

I think nanites play a fundamental role in the operations of the universe

Because there are certain things you can get nanites from that arent related to corruption

Platinum, hexite+faecium, and silver+gold+platinum

Also salvaged data, but my assumption is that the nanites were used to make the data in the first place

[fickle phoenix]

I think getting nano-bot's from complex recipes are less weird than exotic material's. As I said before rafinator is very complex device

Think about this like that: From complex recipe's you create

Not salvage

[main beacon]

But its not complex recipes

[fickle phoenix]

Rafinator have 3 slot's

[main beacon]

Put in enough platinum, you get nanites

Gold and silver can be used to require less platinum

But these have something in common

They can all be harvested from asteroids

We can take literal space rocks, shoot them to bits, shove those bits into a refiner, and get nanites

Hexite and faecium is weird, but a lot of recipes involving faecium are odd

[fickle phoenix]

Sometimes I also believe that Hello Games, like any other studio, doesn't stick to the storyline. They tend to simplify gameplay

[main beacon]

Especially because... both can be turned into gold

Both are crystalline compounds found in the droppings of fauna

Hexite can be turned into gold just on its own

Faecium needs some help from either pugneum, or residual goop

The connections are there!