#discussion
vivid kelp
iirc it's just
nagisa do you have a ping when a thread gets made or smt
iirc it's just that if you open mod refunds then a lot of fake requests gets in with a few real ones
raven leaf
We don’t do refunds because
We don’t have the man power
We have no way to deal with liars, images are easy to fake
We don’t have backups of every 10s
raven leaf
We used to have item restoration but like half of them were fake
Community was told to stop or it would be removed iirc
vivid kelp
and it went on
stable edge
Yeah I get that, but can’t you like check someone’s inventory before a certain date or smth?
raven leaf
We have to deal with the same stuff
raven leaf
Yeah I get that, but can’t you like check someone’s inventory before a certain d...
Even if we could we can’t just bring that data over
vivid kelp
Y'all got item logs don't you
raven leaf
Like even if we can prove you had the item that’s all we can do, prove it
We can’t get the item from the past, we aren’t time travelers
vivid kelp
I don't think mods can
raven leaf
No one can
vivid kelp
Who grabbed the items in last dupe then
raven leaf
Wynn is super complex
vivid kelp
the incident of a shit ton of 3eb tol rune
raven leaf
¯_(ツ)_/¯
vivid kelp
thonker
raven leaf
We can prove stuff existed but we can’t make it exist again
Also flat out, refunds suck to deal with do you have any idea how many tickets we would get 🗿
stable edge
I mean can’t developers create items with the IDs they want? Why can’t that be used to restore lost items?
vivid kelp
they can't just do that whenever they want
raven leaf
Devs flat out don’t have the time
You would need like 20 ppl managing it
Actually still no
Like 50
vivid kelp
how many tickets did you really get on daily basis
raven leaf
For items?
raven leaf
Enough that we don’t have time
Man we have enough to deal with when people blatantly fly then say no I didn’t
tawdry venture
@raven leaf I'm copy pasting this here
I think its hard to spoof items since items can be tracked easily if mods are willing to do it.
Most of the cases are people losing items due to server errors, if an existed item with the same code thats still on the server it can be easily checked. Faking errors is not possible if mods actually put effort on it. Item restoration was a thing back then, but not anymore since more fake cases were found.
I'm not professional on coding items, I do get where mods gets tired when they are trying to restore items and turns out they are fake. However, I think simple rules like faking losing items intentionally resulting in bans or other punishments on a player would effectively reduce fake case and mods can focus on actual cases. You see, it's really ridiculous to see people losing top mythics due to server-side errors.
Would rules like mentioned help with that?
stable edge
When it comes to super expensive items like #1 items though I think you guys should take the time to look into that
Items under 1 stx or so makes sense not to bother with
raven leaf
It won’t help because we aren’t going to invest the time to make a system that we don’t want to maintain anyway
stable edge
So you don’t care if players lose their valued items and quit the game?
stable edge
either deal with it equally or dont
Also fair enough
vivid kelp
So you don’t care if players lose their valued items and quit the game?
I mean... It's not their game
vivid kelp
also people come n go
raven leaf
Do I think it sucks? Hell yeah
Will we fix it? No
What’s better to do is figure out the issue and patch it
vivid kelp
I lost my entire set from my sister afking my acc in warzone but shrug
raven leaf
Not invest time in a system we won’t use
vivid kelp
not warzone just dangerous spot
it's pain considering that's everything I had but hey I'm still here
tawdry venture
before pasting that over
I read. But I doubt where mods are able to check past dupes but not lost items.
I think its a bad manner where because its hard to deal with meaning that it should not be dealt with, problems will still remains there.
stable edge
Idk, I still feel like there should be some insurance for mythics specifically
vivid kelp
dupes are more serious than lost items
tawdry venture
Yeah, but that means its a çhoose to do''
vivid kelp
you can't crash the entire economy with a mythic or two but you can by copying a bit
tawdry venture
what if there are uncut video evidences?
raven leaf
Idk, I still feel like there should be some insurance for mythics specifically
“But why not my 100% rolled fabled?”
“But why not my white horse?”
“But why not my item that got removed from long ago”
raven leaf
Not trying to be rude but please read what I said
It isn’t an issue of real or fake (as much)
We can’t pull items out of thin air
stable edge
“But why not my 100% rolled fabled?”
“But why not my white horse?”
“But why not ...
Fine. If you guys can’t restore items then why don’t you bug test more before releasing a feature to the public? Armor stands is the perfect example
raven leaf
flat out armor stands were more related to save issues than armor stands
also we do test stuff
tawdry venture
Well again. I get the point where items can be faked. Im not trying to be rude also but if this excuse is used everytime :
- Nobody is hacking because everyone can easily fake evidences
- Everything can be irresponsible to anyone because I can just call out it's simply fake.
stable edge
also *we do test stuff*
I know you test stuff. The game would literally be broken if you weren’t. I’m saying to spend more time testing stuff before releasing it
raven leaf
I've clearly explained we have other factors
raven leaf
I know you test stuff. The game would literally be broken if you weren’t. I’m sa...
we do. We usually put it on beta too.
vivid kelp
Well again. I get the point where items can be faked. Im not trying to be rude a...
mfw reporting a hacking player and have a mod witness them fly
"Yeah no it's not hacking that's 200% faked"
raven leaf
mfw reporting a hacking player and have a mod witness them fly
"Yeah no it's no...
it happens more than you think
vivid kelp
moment
tawdry venture
mfw reporting a hacking player and have a mod witness them fly
"Yeah no it's no...
You know, that can also be faked right?
Its how misplace disadvantage can fake reach on players where picle stopped accepting any evidence related reporting once for reach hacks
stable edge
we do. We usually put it on beta too.
Okay, I quit right when 1.20 released so I’m not sure on this im actually asking. Why wasn’t the armor stand bug caught during hero beta before being released publicly? Not trying to argue, legitimately asking
raven leaf
Okay, I quit right when 1.20 released so I’m not sure on this im actually asking...
Simply wasn't, not every bug will come up even if 1000 people test it sadly :(
See SE intro, it was patched bugwise on beta
stable edge
Alright fair enough
raven leaf
main came around and random people got hardlocked on worm
vivid kelp
You know, that can also be faked right?
Its how misplace disadvantage can fake ...
Can someone pull out the dream flying gif
stable edge
Yeah my guild leader told me about notg bug
raven leaf
You know, that can also be faked right?
Its how misplace disadvantage can fake ...
Yeah except one problem with this argument.
Only one hack really works on wynncraft. Flying.
Reach? Your reach is capped depending on weapon. Killaura? Doesn't work due to attack speed and even if you use it its obvious
raven leaf
Speed just gets rubberbanded
stable edge
Duping hacks have been used before though
raven leaf
nope
they just haven't
wynncraft removes or modifies too many default mechanics of minecraft
stable edge
So people duped through glitches? Not hacks?
vivid kelp
Bruh what kinda brain makes you think hack can dupe item
raven leaf
No he isn't wrong
hacks can dupe but usually require outside help
Like chunk duping is made trivial with a client
stable edge
Yeah hacking is definitely a source of dupes. I just wasn’t aware vanilla dupes didn’t work on wynncraft cause of all the changes they have made to vanilla
tawdry venture
So people duped through glitches? Not hacks?
Chunk dupes that were used on 2b2t was also brought to wynn before
fallen iron
Time to dupe depressing sticks
raven leaf
Chunk dupes that were used on 2b2t was also brought to wynn before
no they weren't
This just isn't true
tawdry venture
People tried
fallen iron
Chunk dupes dont work on wynn
raven leaf
Chunks are literally like vaporized
fallen iron
^^^^^
raven leaf
there was a chest im not going to mention why but you could open and store stuff in it at one point
fallen iron
Thats why /class is a thing
raven leaf
even if you put stuff in it and someone else walked up it would be empty
tawdry venture
That sounds like the catacombs dupe on hypixel lol
vivid kelp
weird moment
tawdry venture
That hsb dupe where players store items inside the dungeon chest, reloading the dungeon with like warping out out and in and the inventory will be reverted and the items inside the chest can be taken away by other players
tawdry venture
Before people discovered the dupe this was used mainly for irl trading because it was untraceable
tawdry venture
Not on wynn I mean
grave tartan
there was a chest im not going to mention why but you could open and store stuff...
Rodoroc potion shop one?
tawdry venture
What about rollbacks, was there any discussion on it 🤔
raven leaf
wont happen
vivid kelp
reverts chunks to whatever we have on build server
So whatever chunk we see rn is from build
vivid kelp
o
grave tartan
If that were the case we’d see new projects outside the map
And map pushes just wouldn’t exist
raven leaf
If that were the case we’d see new projects outside the map
You shouldn't be there anyway 
grave tartan
You shouldn't be there anyway <:saltroll:827620910391492620>
No but like SE. We would have been able to see from within the map
If that were the case
tawdry venture
Rollback on one's profile doesn't seem like can harm the server in anyway.
It just reverts one profile where if someone claims they lost one item the server doesn't need to 'refund' players their items but simply just revert to the state where the items were not deleted. (Once its proven not to be fake)
I am just curious why rollback isn't a choice if used appropriately
grave tartan
Ok so I trade nagi my white horse
vivid kelp
have u really read
vivid kelp
What nagisa said
vivid kelp
like have you really even read 1% of what he said
tawdry venture
We don’t do refunds because
We don’t have the man power
We have no way to deal...
This
tawdry venture
We can prove stuff existed but we can’t make it exist again
This
grave tartan
I don’t understand why people seem to think refunds would be a good idea on a large server like Wynn
tawdry venture
I don’t understand why people seem to think refunds would be a good idea on a la...
Because it's a sort of responsibility where server managers bares.
grave tartan
It’s literally in their policy that it’s not their responsibility
If you don’t like their policies
Don’t play their server
fallen iron
Hello charleleleelslsls
grave tartan
Your not entitled to anything
fallen iron
😭
grave tartan
Hello sowo xx
fallen iron
😳
vivid kelp
Because it's a sort of responsibility where server managers bares.
It's not their responsibility
They don't babysit the players
fallen iron
Hello can i have my DEFINITELY REAL az back :)))))
vivid kelp
they make sure everythings fine
fallen iron
💀
grave tartan
10 bucks says 12 or American
mighty flicker
raven leaf
Because it's a sort of responsibility where server managers bares.
No it isn’t
The thing is people hold wynn to this expectation but not other servers for some reason
tawdry venture
It’s literally in their policy that it’s not their responsibility
Why created the policy
If the argument 'if you dont like it just leave it', problems remains here. You never actually solved the problem and there will be somebody becomes the next victim 😔 .
I can understand not refunding in insignificant cases since it causes inefficiency. I get the point where wynn have a large unique playerbase, if only a tiny percentage of those players lose items, it’s just not feasible for staff to waste time on that (Which as mentioned, the man power problem) . Mods obviously have better things to do. There’s just not enough staff to be able to do that kind of thing, which is why I agrees that refunding players cannot be considered feasible in a short time.
But consider these :
-
It's not the players responsibility for the staff to keep their problems in check. If a bug occurs with an item they lost they deserve the refund if they have sufficient proof. If managers aren’t the ones bearing this responsibility, who would it be?
-
Servers provide the content and the bugs are their mistakes and never the users (Applied to all servers except for anarchy). Users should not be bearing unintended consequences unless they are exploiting them in an abusive way.
-
Item deletion glitches may happen across the entire server, not just individually. Past examples where HSB deleted thousands of players' talisman bags during an update and all of them were refunded. Both Wynncraft and HSB faces the problem of understaff. Now I brought up this comparison is because this is obviously more severe than the past deletion glitches on Wynncraft and which the HSB did indeed refund the victims, which wynn should take this as an example if same thing happens in the future.
-
For Nagisa's claim on 'The thing is people hold wynn to this expectation but not other servers for some reason'. For me, it's not an expectation but indeed what would server managers needed to provide a better atmosphere for players to play on. I don't think expectation is a right word to call it but obliged.
-
Would the disable of refund policies (which was running before) be creating an exceptional case where a group of players could receive the refund treatment while another group can’t ?
^ Backing up my point above, which I have a doubt where staff did have ability to keep track on lost items, but not now? I mean, the active playerbase now should be way less than before, wouldn’t it be easier to rework that policy given enough time?
The following would be addressing Nagisa’s previous claims on this thread with my own thoughts.
We don’t do refunds because ‘We don’t have the man power. We have no way to deal with liars, images are easy to fake. We don’t have backups of every 10s’
In which I totally understand, except for one argument ‘We have no way to deal with liars, images are easy to fake’ as this literally happens everywhere. As I’ve mentioned, this ‘excuse’ could be used anywhere to just to not do anything. It just sounded like because something is hard to do so it must be skipped for me.
To address the problem of ‘liars, images are easy to fake’, as I’ve made an suggestion of issuing punishments towards players who are found lying to moderators or any staff members about their items, wouldn’t it be deterrent to players so that players would less likely making lies and faking evidences?
‘Like even if we can prove you had the item that’s all we can do, prove it
We can’t get the item from the past, we aren’t time travelers’
Which leads to my thought of giving rollbacks to players if they are proven to be an actual victim after further investigation, which ‘Don’t have backups of every 10s’ should technically not an issue, right?
‘Enough that we don’t have time Man we have enough to deal with when people blatantly fly then say no I didn’t’
Which well, couldn’t agree more after how hard I see you guys working on removing illegal money from the economy circulation. I appreciate the effort of you guys trying to keep the economy circulation with legitimate money.
For Naughty Vaporeon’s point ‘they make sure everythings fine’
I make enough money to sustain my daily needs, I do not need to care about my families or friends. Does it sound ethically correct?
I truly love Wynncraft and thus making these entire argument. Not just enriching my own knowledge of the moderation on wynn but speaking for the other side of the community where people feel frustrated on losing items, even through I'm not a victim.
god damn I just finished doing my English essay homework and I don't have anything to do on genshin so please don't blame me for doing this
For for conclusion, I'm just wondering if refund policy could be brought back in the future, because I've seen so many people requesting it. I don't think these voices should be overrided just because of some liars.
raven leaf
No
Frankly it’s just not possible
It isn’t like “oh people want it, let’s bring it back!”
We literally do not have the systems to make it work, and it’s just easier to fix the actual problems
I get the issue, but you keep jumping on the whole liar detection
Even if everyone is a perfect angel we can’t support it