so ppfart
#Item Discussion
proper egret
proper egret
i mean deye and draoi are really good
safe geode
because of spell cost
proper egret
but playstyles like intless spell shouldn't be so roll dependent
proper egret
_because of spell cost_
ah tru
safe geode
but playstyles like intless spell shouldn't be so roll dependent
Mmm agree
-spell cost is kinda wack
Fatal moment
proper egret
They're like the only thing that make deye and draoi good lol
OH i finally got what you meant here ppfart
rocky parcel
more accurate would probably be spell boot powercreep
mana boots have always been a little fucked ngl
wicked juniper
like this post if you hate original magnet repulsor
rocky parcel
..how original are we talking
wicked juniper
very original
hoary chasm
Love boots
onyx zephyr
coconut...
wicked juniper
please give coconut 3 powder slots
hoary chasm
please give empire builder 30 slots
rocky parcel
iirc there's actually a bug with powder application that doesn't let you apply more than 18 powders on a single item, or it just resets the powders on it
it's why this happened
hoary chasm
Yes that is correct I remember powdering a matrojshaka to 20 and it just going back to cocoon 
hoary chasm
Wasn’t t6
rocky parcel
not up to us
we can only yell at devs to fix bugs and if it isn't happening, something like this is a better choice
small turtle
hoary chasm
why doesnt the item team just fix all the items wtf!?
proper egret
TRUE
vagrant wave
Man lunar spine really needs a buff
I understand its niche but there are still minor things that can be done to improve it (make it less roll dependent)
by basically toning down all the damages by putting some into base
as well as maybe making ms always >20
ripe olive
ive not only seen it but also used it
ripe olive
its kinda hard to get a shit roll like that one in pic
also main atk and sd doesnt matter that much
vagrant wave
and then comes sustain
ripe olive
totem healing
vagrant wave
this is lunar spine
proper egret
lunar spine smells
burst spell is a generally flawed playstyle
because of the limitations of the game and how important hunger is
for movement
rocky parcel
lunar spine's never going to be meta
or even all that good
the mana steal roll is a pretty valid point though
proper egret
it seems like a fun gimmick
raven cedar
it's been mentioned before but it'd be really interesting if lunar spine got entropy
proper egret
also -42 mr when the range is -86--46 
proper egret
ahh
hoary chasm
Lunar spine is cool but while im here, non mythic endgame spear pool
proper egret
YES THIS
PLEASE
all other classes have other great nonmythic options
for archer you have olily, antballs, cluster, and the evolved
drifting pike
what the hell is antballs
proper egret
for assassin you have black, limbo/anvil crawler, bygones, fshot hilt, even rewind
proper egret
what the hell is antballs
anthracite ballista
drifting pike
into quotes you go
proper egret
understandable
anyways
for mage you have the nothing, cascade, prest, and nepta/morro (not stellar but very easy to abuse powders on)
and idrk shaman that well but ik like pz, lumina, spleen splitter, procras(?)
but warrior has what
like
ignition?
infidel?
really not a lot
especially for spell
hoary chasm
ignition is meh/subpar
infidel 
gUys mOrPh inFiDeL
procras is balls now for shaman cryo is best spell option
proper egret
ignition is meh/subpar
at least w/o crafteds but crafteds are a new can of worms
eh zephra is ok ig
mini hero
but its
proper egret
yeah emphasis on that
rocky parcel
all crafted weapons are really strong
and although there's a bit of a lack in power in endgame spears
mythic spears in general are also a bit out of proportion as well
as in powerful
hoary chasm
nah im more with bart yeah they seem overtoned
rocky parcel
relative to their respective baselines, at least
spears may not have their equivalent to orange lily/cascade, but in terms of simple damage nonmythic endgame spears really are not bad by any means, moreso lacking options element-wise rather than id wise
iirc every mythic spear except for guardian is (effectively) above the baseline for mythic damage at their level
so i'm more inclined to say that mythic spears are a little too powerful and warrior in general should get a bit of a boost rather than that the nonmythic endgame spears all suck (don't get me wrong, in terms of spell compatibility spears are the weakest of all the class, but making more of those isn't going to magically make warrior better unless we literally take over something like orange lily) (which we won't lol)
orange lily was pretty unfortunate
i still think that design-wise in a vacuum, it's fine (although definitely still on the powerful side- but that's also fine)
it's just that the whole CCI thing practically negated its big downside
plus then specific items like draoi fair, the meta rewarding its elements/reqs the most at the moment, the sheer fact that it's a very high level legendary spell-focused bow
see the thing is
if you actually were to require using escape often and skillfully
that'd totally be a good downside to orange lily even in the current state
but the sad truth is that it's still a bow, and archer can just fuck around, spam some spells, kill everything, win game
lusty silo
anthracite ballista
hoary chasm
proper egret
What are meta non mythic endgame spears rn btw
ignition build thats kind of decent by abusing lapis
https://hppeng-wynn.github.io/index.html#5_06W0mM0DS0Gk00sCI-10000GLarzLapiz Ring0270540M0201f0V021160k0200Z1100sCI-10000GLarzLapiz Ring0270540M0201f0V021160k0200Z110K40og0Lc0r16yB1R0o1g00001006CO
spring bloom
Ty
rocky parcel
smile
drifting pike
smile
ripe olive
hi furrys
drifting pike
hi degen
proper egret
based altakar
rocky parcel
based altakar
still oxide
based altakar
safe geode
based altakar
ripe olive
based altakar
safe geode
mmm
rocky parcel
de-archive bump
ripe olive
snug bart moment
wicked juniper
@pure sinew
raven cedar
frontliner has funni defensive sp 
but reqs so high that it barely matters bc you're bound to be going hypertank at that point
in which case leo exists and archaic fills in the gaps
shush ryan I wasn't done :D
rocky parcel
next you're gonna complain that fenmask isn't meta
odd condor
why isn't fenmask meta
rocky parcel
frontliner is an item is heavily focused around high health and high life steal but limits you a lot in what you can do outside of tanking
it's honestly worth using at level despite the reqs
but due to being level 82, high health and high life steal is just not going to translate well to almost 20 levels higher
hollow goblet
it is worth using solely due to it being a chain chestplate at lategame
rocky parcel
Fenmask is unusually garbage to be fair
again
fenmask is actually really good at level
it's really nice and defensive while having actually really useful reqs and 1 mr
but like most items that are more defensively inclined at level 80-85
struggles to actually see use at endgame
hoary chasm
So we want buffs to the 80% of lower 80 armour that isn’t used 20 levels later to be on par with dshroud?
simple talon
it's really nice and defensive while having actually really useful reqs and 1 mr
I highly doubt that, I really can't think of a build where fenmask is the best option even at-level
If you want the defensive stats you have other pieces like ensa's
rocky parcel
ensa's is extremely stupid
fenmask is very solid but yeah, you can just keep using meikyo shisui until third eye
proper egret
So we want buffs to the 80% of lower 80 armour that isn’t used 20 levels later t...
i see no problem with this
some lower level stuff will always seep through due to good stats or major ids, such is life ¯_(ツ)_/¯
rocky parcel
lower level items can sometimes be good but they are not required to be good
but when it comes to specific stats, yeah, lower level items can be very good
blue mask has the best sp in the game
items like spectre or impact winter have really good % damages which are valid at their level yet are high enough to be relevant at endgame
i wouldn't call level 85 items "low level" but yeah, they will struggle to actually see use at level 105 endgame endgame if their biggest features are dependant on raw stats, that's just what happens
wicked juniper
glassy items tend to scale better due to a tendency to be focused in stats that tend to scale well
% damages scale with the weapon, stuff like mana just doesn't change at all
sp items also scale well (dshroud, bm, etc)
hollow goblet
opinion on: egression
ripe olive
i once used wfa pure at-level, it was pretty good
rocky parcel
archive prevention message
odd condor
necroposting smh
vagrant wave
delirium is a chestplate though (?)
raven cedar
given the req/mr/massive dmg penalties I think it makes sense for it to have the most ws out of any armor
rocky parcel
hmm i feel like adjustments to it really wouldn't be in the ws
raven cedar
¯_(ツ)_/¯
I always thought of it as the funni ws slap boots
but currently there’s not much that makes it worth using over like revenant
simple talon
Imo the ws is in a fine place right now, but I'd say the -damage downsides are a little too harsh to have it see any practical use
That and its high req
If the -spell% downside was brought down to be about even with the -melee downside and its req was lowered slightly it'd be quite the useful boot
Not meta by any means, but a viable option if you value the walkspeed
vagrant wave
Yeah 100 agi at that level hurts
I think another possibility is maybe lowering the agi req and giving it some agi sp
simple talon
Maybe, I'd love to see seiryu see use in builds that aren't purely mobility based
Kinda like how delirium can see itself fitting into melee and spell builds every so often
And those -damages are quite harsh for that
stuck wyvern
simple talon
the top once since it's cheaper
dark shroud rolls do not matter
or if they do walkspeed and spell % are the only stats that matter
stuck wyvern
And what stats should I look for on a Dragon Dance?
stuck wyvern
im assassin
simple talon
i'd say Mr, Raw Spell, hpr, spell%, and lifesteal, but all are super important
vagrant wave
im assassin
mr assassin e
proper egret
what do u guys think of scale of seiryu
good alternative to resu if you want -spd 
i cant see it getting much use without some changes to dmg and high agi req
cuz like at level thats a ridiculous investment
and later on there are so many better boots for everything
so its benefits of mr and ws wont matter at that point
so yeah basically everything thats been said
torpid crow
what do u guys think of scale of seiryu
scale of seiryu is a really unique item with no practical usage
however, that lack of practical usage is moreso due to numbers rather than design imo
because I have considered using it occasionally only to not do so because of the size of the penalties
raven cedar
lmao I completely forgot scale had a tier
lusty silo
scale of seriyu so useless
please lower agi req thank you
i would use tisauns valor
simple talon
I feel like something like this would make seiryu a lot more usable while not making it too OP imo
also a very good change yes
that could work too, ruins the simple design a little but otherwise solid
Seiryu's simple design is good wtf
you don't need the air damage and fire def
those are just flavors that aren't needed
more roll hell
I mean honestly just keep the damage downside relatively punishing instead of making it a net positive for melee and barely -20% for spell
that's terrible balance
Efteling's roll hell is a genuine strike against it, It should not be so hard to roll for
Although that being said I guess it's a little hard to try to make efteling less roll hell. Removing either raw spell or % spell and buffing either the non-removed one or buffing elemental damage would help, making mr/ms rolls less bad could help but would fuck with balance, and that's all you can really do
unless you removed elem damages which would skew it to buffing all damage types by a lot
which could be neat but also could be dangerous to give that much power to like cataclysm
but like what would the mr/ms rolls be lowered to, base 1 ms and base -2 mr?
oh of course
but what's the alternative
-1 mr would not be a suitable enough downside
at all
remember it's +2 -5 right now
yeah
raven cedar
mm
raw spell annoying to balance but having the % converted to raw does have nice implications for etwa builds
rocky parcel
@ocean verge hey i made this thread for a reason, repost that thing you did here too pls
torpid crow
ocean verge
<@!161979165774446593> hey i made this thread for a reason, repost that thing yo...
can do
(i forgot threads exist)
Tell me about the ENDGAME (80+) items that disappoint you
What item do you just hate because of its wasted potential?
What item is way too good but would be cool if it wasn't busted?
What item is way too bad but would be cool if it wasn't shit?
What item would be amazing if it wasn't for that one thing wrong with it?
Also, what do you WISH existed, but doesn't? (Especially weapon options, tell me all about it, and any candidates you have in mind that could fill the role with a few tweaks too if you want!)
This can be any item type. Looking for builders' opinions on endgame weapons so I can start thinking about the endgame weapon revamp, endgame armours so I can adjust lots of the things that are still a little wild from the endgame armour revamp (including the rainbow changes that still haven't happened), and accessories too which will probably get looked at someday lol
Currently only interested in level 80+ but feel free to use items below that range in discussion, say if one item is ruined because of another that happens to not be endgame
To clarify, I wanna hear about the items that you genuinely wish were different so they could be better, not just "this unique bad lol" with no substance.```Cataract: Should be le epic water melee
Infidel: Should be le epic water melee
Rainmaker: Should be le epic water melee (but better)
torpid crow
I should go through the wynncon blademaster items and see if there are any concepts there that aren't well-represented in existing weapons
there's definitely some cool stuff like the no walkspeed weapon
raven cedar
Silent Ballet is a really cool concept but it's a bit lackluster in terms of damage and also doesn't really,,,, gain anything from the spellcosts other than moving things around (CCI: )
cstack archer weapons in general also simply do not exist (kio already mentioned rainmaker and ig tracer exists but agi req cstack :doom:)
simple talon
Silent ballet is dope smh just gotta use it with heavy melee or heavy poison
if it had powder slots it'd be so good
still oxide
beta divzer
lusty silo
i feel like roulette just outbeats thrunda ripsaw
raven cedar
but would be nice to get some mage/archer weapons on par with like skien's madness and the like
lusty silo
ah yes tstack weapons
simple talon
Revert rainmaker nerf
raven cedar
heavy melee shaman :doom:
simple talon
130 melee tiers
raven cedar
heavy poison silent ballet is gaming tho yes
I miss old rainmaker so muc h
anyway what else hm
lusty silo
ATLAS
raven cedar
I've been playing way more warrior lately oops
simple talon
island sniper has potential except plague and anthracite kinda be laughing at it
torpid crow
probably could stand to get its ls back
cut atlas' ls entirely and push it back to base 2 ms tbh
raven cedar
oh right I'd love to see more weapons with >100% exploding for the funny scarlet veil abuse because exploding is definitely a useful id
Anthracite Ballista is a lot of wasted potential I think bc it's eclipsed by plague while also having extreme roll hell
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Closure,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Petrified Horror is an interesting concept and I like the idea of crippling ws in return for high dmg but then it has low dmg :( (roughly the same dmg as orange lily but that's more bc orange lily is busted than bc of a design flaw for pethorror)
Hellstrand could be really cool but it's probably also in a decent ish place rn (I haven't messed around with hellstrand enough to say)
Orange Lily is hm. a bit busted.
Stinger deserves more heavy melee abuse make it shoot rockets
simple talon
cut atlas' ls entirely and push it back to base 2 ms tbh
yeah that possibly too
but then again
eyes on all
ls meanwhile doesn't see much representation in the tier drop family
simple talon
Cataract is the perfect option for water melee
raven cedar
spleen splitter is fine
lusty silo
wtf
raven cedar
give it more strength
still oxide
mini wannabe toxo
simple talon
Because it's common AF
simple talon
GALLON
raven cedar
galleon is hm.
galleon would actually be very cool if it got more -tiers
trift galleon tierdrop
what if it gave raw melee instead of % 🥰
simple talon
I feel like cutting the poison from it since it makes no sense at all being on there
raven cedar
anyway I do not want to turn this into airing grievances and suggesting changes
simple talon
what if it was thunder/fire instead of water/earth 🥰
raven cedar
would rather just be like this item bad and then leave it to ims to decide changes
still oxide
then it'd be called dbreak except not dawnbreak since no melee or ls
simple talon
that's the joke
raven cedar
anyway spear critique time
simple talon
congration you get it
still oxide
poggu!
simple talon
gallon is just shitty water/earth dawnbreak you can't change my mind
lusty silo
also
i feel like bete noire is better off as a diamond_chest
(such a useless suggestion)
gahwelon
still oxide
gaellon
simple talon
gargalon
lusty silo
gawrgawreon
still oxide
what if we gave galleon sp and hp sustain
raven cedar
Quinque being eclipsed by skien's madness makes me sad :( bring back quinque cstack supremacy
Rikter functions but is boring
The Forsaken could be a hybrid king but it falls flat (zephra shredder would also make for cool hybrid)
Tidebinder D:
Ignition is very strong! why is it so strong!
Infidel water melee infidel water melee
There are no rare/unique spears because they simply. do not exist.
I would love to see some sort of crowd control spear? like warrior spells in general aren't hugely amazing for CC due to heavy kb, so it'd be hella fun to have bash spamming spears or something (black amaranth 👀)
Also a poison spear why are there no good poison spears
still oxide
Quinque being eclipsed by skien's madness makes me sad :( bring back quinque cst...
i mean undying exists
and it's pretty good
raven cedar
undying and praesidium are in a decent spot so not worth mentioning
they fit their roles well imo
still oxide
ye
raven cedar
my point was moreso that unique/rare spears generally just
don't even have a niche
they just kinda
exist? without really doing much or having any fun concepts
mm I have very few comments for mage weapons
oh compiler is hm
eidolon tstack :despair:
yellow rose D: it could be so cool as a funny roll dependent damager (roulette style) but then base dmg just said. no.
much like warrior unique wands do not exist
in terms of new weapons I'd like to see, cstack wands as mentioned before
I will leave daggers and reliks bc I have not built with assassin very much and bc reliks have a pretty solid spread in terms of concepts
simple talon
Charging flame should have significant -charge cost
still oxide
yoo charge spam spear
raven cedar
idol :(
still oxide
other than idol
simple talon
imagine 🤤
raven cedar
OH actually another weapon idea I would love to see:
weapons that buff one spell to the exclusion of all else through the use of extreme elemental % to buff a specific spell (ie a weapon with like +13000% air to make totem ticks do funni dmg)
simple talon
would be cool except rolling 😔
raven cedar
make them merchant/dungeon items 🤪
raven cedar
but also roling is part of the fun
simple talon
as long as they're uniques/rares
simple talon
yeah I think items like that were proposed way back before spell costs were added
ice snake focused damage wands and the like
I want a scream based spear tbh
raven cedar
much how ice barrows blue boss 3 has extreme -earth def to encourage earth conversion spells
I need
hell's scream
to have like
simple talon
Yeeeee
Hell's scream insane reliance on conversion but actually decent dps warscream spear
or you could just make scream cost very little and make it an ambivalence weapon
which could be cool too
simple talon
epic
raven cedar
((ok this has 13k base war screams so maybe not exactly that but you get the idea))
mm
simple talon
Can't wait for 1st/2nd/3rd/4th spell damage% ids
separate multiplier for damage on that spell
raven cedar
I am bad at making customs and I cba to balance numbers so you will get funny extreme customs
simple talon
would actually be dope tbh
raven cedar
me when the
simple talon
when the when
raven cedar
pure +300% 3rd spell dmg
make the crossing add 3k+ meteor with no str/dex :D
anyway getting off topic but
weapons that lock you into one spell
raven cedar
Gale's Sight
Hetusol
The Crossing
Phage Pins
Suppression
No Ring 2
No Bracelet
Ambivalence
Stomper []
idk 10-20k should be about right?
would still be significantly less dmg than everything else
mm
I murdered shield bc at first I had
30k base escape
and shield was like
a lot
oh doom
arrow rain also has
air conversion
:doom:
Carpet Bomb: Arrows generated by Arrow Rain deal damage in a radius
arrow shield generates what
100 arrows?
I think this is the wrong channel for this but
yes
that is what I just said :v
also that likely would cause extreme lag
homing arrows doom
poor nhawk
not anymore
ye
back when it was 120% per arrow
still oxide
i mean
it still does
if you can't get more than 40/60 of your reg arrow storm to hit the mob
raven cedar
ok granted it usually does still increase dps on account of being much more spammable and not always being able to hit all arrows in regular storm
raven cedar
oh right Overdrive is also really cool hybrid but it is instead just sad
desert lark
ok granted it usually does still increase dps on account of being much more spam...
it increases dps at range and with super high cps. But the main benefit of nighthwk imo is the range being able to sit far away makes it much easier to survive.
wicked juniper
it increases dps at range and with super high cps. But the main benefit of night...
yep this was primarily the main point of hawkeye i believe
since it was supposed to be the same duration as normal arrow storm iirc
torpid crow
still isn't fixed lol
wicked juniper
i swear it'll never get fixed
hoary chasm
Yes
You can spam almost 2 in the duration of a normal storm
@amber spruce ghost ping me more
I dare you
Oxzy
Fuck
I mean
Sigma
I’m gonna cry
slate bobcat
@amber spruceDon't spam or ghost ping other players, if you continue that you'll earn yourself a mute
hoary chasm
Wtfrog
slate bobcat
Don't break the rules, and don't dare people to break the rules
hoary chasm
I dare you to not break the rules what is sigma
quasi gorge
I want to eat Calluim
hoary chasm
I wanna eat dream
rocky parcel
Item Discussion
odd condor
IM Discussion
lusty silo
Osu Discussion
raven cedar
oh as for armors I wish we had 30sp variants for the other tris besides TWA/TWF/EFA/ETF would be nice but also dunno if there's already a reason there isn't
torpid crow
that'd definitely be cool
iirc there was some discussion about that at some point
but 30sp variants for the other tris would be neat because they could play off of being an inherent foil to the hive armors
targeting designs that mismatch with the hive armors since by nature of sp they already cover a position that hive armors do not
raven cedar
gjfsbgfsjgbs september efa when rodoroc guard and thanos legionnaire plate exist
proper egret
those spell costs on hysteria jesus fuck
simple talon
Yeah to be fair that wasn't my design I wanted to keep it normal and just add sp while removing a few of the filler stats on it
But someone wanted it to be inverse heph
Druser...
amber spruce
30 raw spell sheesh
raven cedar
I think that was supposed to be %
simple talon
This was what I originally wanted but nowadays I'd probably change it around less so godly rolls aren't ruined
Maybe lower damage a bunch and keep some of its cooler stats
torpid crow
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/663574879794233384/811852326671089694/u...
boring though
simple talon
Yeah but so is medeis and cumulo and rodoroc's guard
30 sp items don't need to be super wacky
They're glue
torpid crow
rodo sure, but cumu is cool
simple talon
It's pretty boring tbh, just strong
torpid crow
the point is they should take the opportunity to do something different from the hive armor
hoary chasm
I mean in smthn like TWA or TWFA I’d just rather
Not
No sp
With options like cumu
Go get mana elsewhere helm is crown for kings not mana
torpid crow
use it it's actually unironically good
no it's not
sorry
it's like 10% away from being viable
raven cedar
in wfa you’ve got
aphotic
and plenty of mana options for other armor
similarly in air builds you’ve got couriers cape, ephemeral, capricorn
simple talon
I think I've considered using it for my idol build when it was twfa but I just found anam far more useful, or just sizzling shawl and adding Mana via accessories
If it gave like 5/5 agi/int it'd be totally worth using
proper egret
This was what I originally wanted but nowadays I'd probably change it around les...
less godly rolls aren't ruined?
proper egret
use it it's actually unironically good
on the topic of vendor helmets
i saw this in a combat warp build or sm once
i could see it in like tfa + flapis or something
was way better pre 1.20.3
but it still has a use
wicked juniper
loses out to other helmets bc high reqs no sp
yeah high reqs but it's in int
young flame
ski mask is so good
hoary chasm
idt the reqs are an issue there are just better ways to get mana elsewhere with actual sp or damage on a helmet
25 wd% and ad% doesn’t make up for much
wicked juniper
skin mask
wicked juniper
skin mask
young flame
i live in a society.
odd condor
skin mask
simple talon
less godly rolls aren't ruined?
Like,it doesnt screw over existing godly hysterias
torpid crow
do people use hysteria?
simple talon
I've used it a little but Dawnbreak is kinda objectively better for everything i've tried using it for
torpid crow
counter counter argument: mythic boots aren't that expensive anymore and are reasonably accessible to many players
torpid crow
yellow name good
simple talon
Based and uniquepilled
still oxide
3*
torpid crow
^
rocky parcel
counteroffer: 17
amber spruce
Purchase #1 galleon for coconut @pure sinew
hoary chasm
Noooo
150 req
What if alka 105str req gives 45str
This is slightly to fill my desire to megatroll with crafteds
raven cedar
what if it didn't cripple your other sps
proper egret
what if it didnt get changed 
rocky parcel
spell alka is best alka
hoary chasm
what if it didnt get changed <:flushed:684595043364765696>
Bad
What if it gave -30 str and +15 dex int agi def 
hoary chasm
Crabs base hp up def down?
hoary chasm
what if ya mom
pure sinew
no
hoary chasm
Reasons to not do it: you think crabs enabling every item ever is good
rocky parcel
i don't remember when the archiving time for this thread is so here's a bump
drifting pike
1 week of inactivity
wicked juniper
lkadslk
tribal lark
hey... botn....
hoary chasm
movement spear fly zoom woosh
raven cedar
-20% ws :c
simple talon
Tbh charge spam works fine even with -200% ws
I do statue idol for my lootrunning sometimes and it works great
still oxide
statue idol 
simple talon
yeah
it's great
genuinely the best idol rally build
Charge is the only movement spell i'd seriously ever consider using to replace walking full-time
you're tanky enough to survive almost anything
deal high damage
can heal
and can move super fast
https://hppeng-wynn.github.io/#4_01d0JX0uF0n60GQ0GQ0OJ0og0Qf-Y0i2Y1I-Y1b10009I10009I10009I10009I1004fI
WynnBuilder build:
Anamnesis
Anima-Infused Cuirass
Infernal Impulse
Statue
Finesse
Finesse
Diamond Hydro Bracelet
Tenuto
Idol [w6w6w6]
honestly I should use darksteel ring
for even more ehp
amber spruce
Simply a difference in skill
torpid crow
truly a skill issue
simple talon
nah screw lq pants I do lootrunning out of spite
I unironically do run for uniques and rares
raven cedar
even with lq you still mostly get uniques and rates
simple talon
yeah but I do lootrunning to spite lootrunners
I live for the moments when I run into some 45000 chest goober who can't bend down far enough to touch grass and make them angry by running without lq
nah I only run with statue
Anamnesis Anima Infernal Impulse Statue 😎
the only time I've actively tried lootrunning with lb was on my 4-chestplate 5-secondary heavy melee build or ironically while using galleon grandmother for lb
rocky parcel
unironically running for emeralds is extremely good at lower levels
wicked juniper
hellstrand
hoary chasm
hell
frail bough
dunno if this fits here but why do certain mythic reliks (Sunstar, Hadal, Absolution) not give their respective element's sp, or any sp at all? just curious since all the other ones seems to give some amount with Pure being the only other exception. (Hadal probs make sense since the req is already max effective stats)
amber spruce
Hadal: int is entirely useless
Abso: used to give def, got nerfed and def removed
hoary chasm
Abso nerf
drifting pike
dunno if this fits here but why do certain mythic reliks (Sunstar, Hadal, Absolu...
some designs don't warrant it, that's it
rocky parcel
hello today i will attempt to revive the item discussion thread
topic: the tempo town merchant items
hoary chasm
they seem a little too good on level
went to 65 in adv set and tempo spear in like not that long in herb
young flame
Dont you also take days to get them
In which you couldve progressed past their use unless you are a casual new player
hoary chasm
iirc it’s 2 days as you can get 6 tokens a day
Tho I can’t remember much anyway so that’s likely not correct
west leaf
i mean you can go to level 65 with adventurers and tempo weapon but like
theres better options
the tempo weapons are just the master hive/bob's mythic for level 30
and even then theyre not like above all else
im sure its a similar case for other classes too but i was leveling up a mage again recently and its not like tempo ticker is the only viable option
you get stuff like waives raiser and blossom
and just because of the fact that these items are limited to real world time its kinda
mandatory they be good
intuition my beloved
hollow goblet
65 with adventurer's is very :agony:
rocky parcel
65 with adventurer's is doable but only if you're just using it to grind levels, actually doing quests involving difficult mobs or bosses really aren't realistic past like 45/50
rocky parcel
heat sink will not be receiving a tier
not that it's not in a bad spot nowadays, mind you
but an attack tier is about the furthest from how it should be improved
hollow goblet
you could give it much more mobility buffs (including sprint stuff) but idk if that'd make any difference
likely not
rocky parcel
its main problem is honestly just the whole of gemini's existence
even past the nerf it got recently it's just straight up better
hollow goblet
yea
hoary chasm
This is so sad
brisk meteor
This is so sad
Callum
rocky parcel
topic: the various custom consumables we've gotten recently, like the bremminglar potions and the ava's workshop items
torpid crow
kinda wack tbh
rocky parcel
(note: ims technically do not handle any of them, just curious what people think of them as i do not ever hear anyone talk about them)
torpid crow
they get balanced ad hoc by GMs and usually end up hurting balance imo
torpid crow
some of them are really strong
raven cedar
hm
west leaf
good for the game imo
rocky parcel
personally i find them pretty neat but everything they do is pointing to eventual "required" consumables or consumables that start phasing other stuff out which is something i really hope to never see
torpid crow
agree on all parts
rocky parcel
crafted consumables are a much different breed due requiring a large amount of effort into them and never being exclusive or semi-exclusive, but these "custom effect items" just kinda feel like they exist because they can exist- and i don't mean to say that in any bad way
also the bremminglar special potions are really powerful at level and if it weren't for growing out of those levels quickly they'd probably be overpowered
torpid crow
there's basically only two routes for OP stuff - either they become obligatory, or they become consensus blacklisted
rocky parcel
pretty much, yeah
and personally i prefer consumables to always be in the latter group, in any game
west leaf
i dunno i think theyre overall pretty cool just so long as nothing that fundamentally changes how a class is played (ie most things related to mobility, for example a dash) that would be restricted to solely such items so as to where they become "required"
bipedal spring my beloved
(why does it have to be so shitass though)
super low duration and high use time
why
ivory schooner
Writhing growth buff when
hollow goblet
it's already the best hm leggings and one of the best cstack damage items
simple talon
Eh, honestly it was kinda nerfed the hardest out of the hm armors
however I don't think the solution is buffing it
nerf the other hm armors
just by a little bit
rocky parcel
it was nerfed the hardest out of the heavy melee items but it also was by far the most powerful out of the heavy melee items
now it's not quite in as powerful of a spot anymore and i can see the argument for it not even having enough raw melee to be worth the downsides (or lack of upsides) to use in heavy melee but that's kinda intentional
it's still most excellent in cancelstack & i personally prefer items being a genuine tradeoff rather than a straight up yes
simple talon
yeah, it's just that most of the other items fared a little too good (just by a tiny bit, and it's partly my bad) so they should probably be brought down a couple %
torpid crow
it's still most excellent in cancelstack & i personally prefer items being a gen...
I mean, ideally an item should be good in both
since being good in cancelstack is about both dmg and -tiers while being good in hm is just about the dmg
so there's nothing preventing every heavy melee item also being competitive in cancelstack, design-wise
ivory schooner
now it's not quite in as powerful of a spot anymore and i can see the argument f...
it is still the best option for cancelstack, but cancelstack in general is in a terrible spot right now as basically any tierstack outclasses it
west leaf
its the best option for cancelstack because there arent even many cancelstack options to begin with
and it being so lackluster compared to both standard hm items and then even tierstack as said is just kinda e
ivory schooner
yup
rocky parcel
topic: useful/good "lower level" items (weapons below ~90, armour below ~80)
ivory schooner
roulette :pepega:
wicked juniper
skien's madness
hoary chasm
Bete Noire
brisk meteor
CAL
raven cedar
blue mask
raven cedar
impact winter
hoary chasm
Haq
west leaf
as in, items that are relevant endgame or good for general use at their level?
durums serenity has always been funny to me by being a meta option all the way up until level 75 and even then if you don’t need the mana regen from like royal stormy it’s still viable
also people mentioning the major id leggings but aren’t they designed with such intention as low level to be balanced
not sure if those should really count
rocky parcel
yeah but they're worth mentioning still, aren't they
west leaf
certified knucklebones moment
rocky parcel
i miss old knucklebones
rocky parcel
had funny elemental damages
dravarden is nice ye
most mana items at lower levels are surprisingly nice
phage pins 💪
west leaf
most mana items at lower levels are surprisingly nice
any placid step fans
rocky parcel
haha not op but definitely intentionally worth using at endgame
still waiting for someone to use heracul at endgame
west leaf
me using crystal coil with aftershock in at level nol
amber spruce
I was stunlocking yahya with 7 cost spins and not running out of mana with heavy melee
rocky parcel
impulse?
west leaf
ok well spin blindness is also just way longer than it should be
rocky parcel
o i thought at level
amber spruce
Anvil/slider mix
amber spruce
Post Ultima cracked for like wars
west leaf
kb synergy
rocky parcel
there's a reason nothing was ever made that really approached the same niche as post-ultima
it just remains good
amber spruce
Tenuto is technically not endgame under the listed definition
Although it is an accessory
west leaf
eyes on all as well in that case
amber spruce
smh he uses crafted anyway
rocky parcel
it is far too cool to be abbreviated to pultima even if you do want to abbreviate it so badly
nevermind just say post-ultima
any helm splitter enjoyers
i think my knight still has helm splitter tierstack build atm
west leaf
society if exploding
amber spruce
Nobody care about explodinh
amber spruce
idk
rocky parcel
nah but it counts as obvious major id item
amber spruce
May as well just assume all the major id fableds(except flashfreeze)
west leaf
yes but you said still worth mentioning 😠
rocky parcel
i wonder how many people remember that virgo's exploding is super high
amber spruce
Virgo no eta 
west leaf
i can get behind the idea of flashfreeze being more support esque with the buff to add additional slowness time with the current iteration of CCI but uh
1 second...
not what i meant
referring to the literal slowness effect applied to mobs
it got buffed to have one (1) additional second of slowness
rocky parcel
flashfreeze was never intended to be gamechanging though i have to admit the end result was lesser than we expected
but that's why i took the chance to put the major id on several very cool items!!
that no one actually ended up using
west leaf
i use cold wave for my level 75 mage
speaking of which is that another example
yea major id item but
very cool item
wicked juniper
i wonder how many people remember that virgo's exploding is super high
yeah but i'm not gonna use the high e/t req 0 hp boots with scarlet veil
ivory schooner
WeLl AcTuAlLy It'S 5 hP
but no indeed i tried virgo scarlet veil and you get slaughtered
earnest junco
Virgo died
The change really was a nerf
Because now at least getting higher str dex would pay off
But -20 def agi in an ETFA tierstack meta sucks
Especially on a 0 hp item
earnest junco
Yes
Some definetly were
Like virgo
Bete noire is a perfect example of high requirements paying off
Virgo could've been like that but for tierstack
Instead they decided to make it nearly unusable
torpid crow
more than just that
items as a whole were not balanced with the changes in mind
e.g. no one uses hive armor anymore
ivory schooner
^^
roulette is on the complete opposite side of the spectrum
4.6k spins WITHOUT armor or acce ???
west leaf
rise of quad meta
earnest junco
e.g. no one uses hive armor anymore
Yes quads are way too good
earnest junco
4.6k spins WITHOUT armor or acce ???
But it doesnt get great dmg
Because it lacks access to curse/courage
ivory schooner
it does lack curse courage
earnest junco
You can get like what? 8k spins?
ivory schooner
but lets not forget this is a lvl 79 item
earnest junco
Super easy for TFF black
ivory schooner
79
earnest junco
but lets not forget this is a lvl 79 item
Yes it's busted at level
But that's true for many low level items now
Because they only nerfed level 80+ weapons
ivory schooner
not too mention that black is way harder too roll
roulette was nerfed
0-88 -> 0-80 -_-
rocky parcel
virgo was changed because initial strdex was showing extremely powerful results with it unchanged
ETF tierstack and especially ETA was unironically getting nearly double previous dps
now i'm perfectly aware that in todays day and age class builders (ingo) scoff at any build below 80 defense and 50k EHP and all that but unchanged virgo was not realistic to keep
quad meta was entirely expected
but personally i still see that as the fault of a few items rather than the problem of many
not actually hardnerfing the quad items because i couldn't figure out for the life of me how i'd go about doing that fairly for one thing
torpid crow
easiest solution imo is to just buff hive armors
won't solve the whole issue but would go a long way since they lost a ton of power when str/dex got stronger
also items like cardiac arrest with -def/-agi
ivory schooner
uhu
rocky parcel
topic: idk recent changelog i guess
what did you like what did you dislike
alka still has -int which i find very annoying
cataclysm nerf was deserved but i do agree with what others are saying about -1st cost (never should have gotten it)
wait i don't even know how many opinions i can give about this without possibly leaking
damn
divzer change was 😬 though
hoary chasm
idrk what the strati buff was really, changes next to nothing
elder swan
I kinda dislike the slayer nerf because it's used a lot w sparkling plate afaik. If I understand it correctly you can only reach -76% 3rd cost (so 1 cost meteor/aura for mage/shaman) with both max 3rd cost on sparkling plate & slayer. The difference between 1 cost and 2 cost spells for a max roll and non-max roll is ridiculously large. (I don't know if its possible to change the 3rd cost to any other value though, because I can imagine that % cost items are a pain to balance.)
I do like the vortexian nerf & galleon buff.
rocky parcel
let's goo i did galleon buff
elder swan
I wonder if gaia galleon trift could be somewhat viable now, but ig it'll still be super glassy.
eh, they should be fixed as well but ig vveins could help
young flame
let's goo i did galleon buff
i am in love
raven cedar
galleon buff was cool
alka buff also cool
divzer change was ???
hadal buff neat
slayer nerf deserved
cata nerf wack
idol and pure nerfs are :wtf:
gaia buff nice
guard/ignis/resu nerfs are all kinda wtf as well
gma nerf deserved but painful
abrasion buff 
flameshot buff
apologies for the spam Ill stop now
earnest junco
guard/ignis/resu nerfs are all kinda wtf as well
guard and ignis were deserved
resu sucks
raven cedar
did I ask
west leaf
fire mythics losing hpr is cool
I ache for the fall of nigh invincible builds
so we can actually get proper raid balancing (do gms even care)
earnest junco
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/739213737214476309/888408498344452126/unk...
Cancer֎
Rekkr
Chain Rule
Galleon
Flipped Lapis Ring
Flipped Lapis Ring
Dying Lobelia
Contrast
Gaia [e6w6w6]
amber spruce
Please delete ci lore 
rocky parcel
some days i'm glad named wynnbuilder customs don't work for me
ivory schooner
let's goo i did galleon buff
i like the galleon buff, but i feel like galleon needs some skill points to make it useful even with bad/mediocre stats
also flapis nerf when
ivory schooner
ah sounds good too
hoary chasm
there will only be a fix
doeth we know when this fiiicks is? or are we not allowed to know
rocky parcel
once i know when the fix is i'll announce it personally lmao
earnest junco
The fix is soon tm since 2019
odd condor
once **i** know when the fix is i'll announce it personally lmao
very cool
torpid crow
galleon buff is kinda e
rocky parcel
how so
aside from poison generally being kinda fucked and galleon poison buff really just being there to put it above the other mega poison items again
which isn't really a galleon thing as much as just "so where's poison at and ???"
ivory schooner
like i said, galleon is lacking skillpoints
the poison buff is nice yes
but i feel that stealing/dmg buffs aren't needed. i'd much rather see galleon get like +10 str
earnest junco
aside from poison generally being kinda fucked and galleon poison buff really ju...
the poison buff is a huge buff to spell gaia 🥰
saving this for later (moontower) CI-100009Moontower0250401030530G03010s0H0201B0I0201z0J0201z0K0203X0L0201B0M0201V0Q020160S0201G0T011A0U011A0V010Z0W010y0X011e0t0108X16010Cq17010Cq
torpid crow
I don't think the sp is inherently an issue
but wtf even is galleon supposed to be useful for?
why does it have the dumb -1 tier and melee%?
okay I know why it's because of selvut
galleon doesn't really have a design, it's like those TA items that have generic stats slapped on top
earnest junco
why does it have the dumb -1 tier and melee%?
-1 tier is very useful
brings gaia to super slow
melee is good because it's hybrid
galleon basically is a hybrid of spellsteal, poison and melee
rocky parcel
i think the fact that it only has -1 tier is a major part of its charm
torpid crow
however, the lack of sp does make it pretty weak damage-wise
earnest junco
% melee is fine
earnest junco
i think the fact that it only has -1 tier is a major part of its charm
nona galleon!!
torpid crow
because of std changes
west leaf
orange lily :sunglaso:
rocky parcel
who's telling ingo that weapons exist that aren't mythic
earnest junco
Cancer֎
Time Rift
Greaves of the Veneer
Galleon
Draoi Fair
Detective's Ring
Momentum
Amanuensis
Spring [w6w6w6]
earnest junco
who's telling ingo that weapons exist that aren't mythic
people tend to not use mythic boots with non mythic weapons
ivory schooner
i do that
torpid crow
eh I kind of agree with ingo
galleon really lacks in use
and as mythic weapons become cheaper, they start to reach the point at which the flaws of mythic baseline is exposed
i.e. they become the only thing that matters
basically what already happened to mythic boots to some extent, on a larger scale because mythic weapons are even better relatively speaking
rocky parcel
not an incorrect observation but i feel like it's misplaced here
torpid crow
fair enough
ivory schooner
still tho, i feel giving mythic boots a static stat (like sp or a major id) would improve them.
earnest junco
Cancer֎
Far Cosmos
Vaward
Galleon
Diamond Solar Ring
Ataraxy
Prowess
Diamond Fusion Necklace
Orange Lily [w6w6e6]
there
ivory schooner
and although galleon might not need sp, it could be a way of fixing the problems with boot prices dropping to nothing if they have a bad roll
earnest junco
bart, thoughts on a major ID that replaces uproot with wave spell on hadal?
rocky parcel
mythics serving as ultra endgame near easter egg weapons becoming much, much more common to the point where it seems that they are slowly starting to affect general balancing is related to people often using mythic boots in builds with mythic weapons, but unrelated to the actual balance of that mythic boot itself
not on hadal honestly
certain spells being replaced by wave or flamethrower has been on the list for 17 years
earnest junco
not on hadal honestly
wouldnt it fit its theme?
Wow it was planned before even thinking of founding wynncraft
rocky parcel
not particularly, honestly
ivory schooner
hadal with wave spell is really cool
torpid crow
it should have been buffed in a different way
rocky parcel
i agree with druser but it's also unavoidable while trying to improve hadal both power and usability wise
earnest junco
wouldnt it fit its theme?
Hadal is related to the ocean, right
torpid crow
it's bottommost layer of hte ocean
rocky parcel
half the water items are related to the ocean lol
torpid crow
the depths where no light penetrates
rocky parcel
scratch that
earnest junco
srsly tho
rocky parcel
threequarters of water items are related to the ocean
rocky parcel
neither does transcendence
ivory schooner
lament wave sounds pretty cool too ngl
rocky parcel
worst placed major id