contrast <3
#Item Discussion
void mirage
etw players when a necklace doubles their ehp
dusky marsh
ETW players when using contrast instead of chaos-woven greaves halves their DPS
west leaf
hello bartwalker minecraft
rocky parcel
hello poobis poobis
west leaf
hello bartwalker minecraft hello touhoku owl
opal sable
hello pinna poobis
hoary chasm
hello bartwalker minecraft hello touhoku owl
Niple
west leaf
@hoary chasm
exotic perch
why is this thread revived again?
elder nymph
:/
exotic perch
://::/::/:;/
rocky parcel
i concur
dusky marsh
i CUR
dusky marsh
smoked your morph solo 😼
raven cedar
re-alive
I've been wondering why class builds and trade market felt so close together lol
west leaf
b
hoary chasm
b
zenith sinew
I've been wondering why class builds and trade market felt so close together lol
what do you mean
raven cedar
mm wrong channel but nice
raven cedar
class builds
slim jay
Okay thanks a lot ❤️
wicked juniper
god guillotine makes me want to hurt someone
like i dont even care that it was nerfed what makes me go nuts is THE RNG WHY DOES IT HAVE -HEALTH BONUS AT BASE 1000 HP AND ALSO DAMAGE STATS AND ALSO MANA AND ALSO LIFESTEAL AND there's like a bajillion rolls that matter and the hp varies so much that it can be EITHER POSITIVE OR NEGATIVE
it's so unnecessary
just set it at like base 0 hp and remove the -health bonus or something there's like no reason for it to be there
if someone tells me the downside is that it's rng i'm going to send you a picture of your house
west leaf
the downside is that it's rng
ok but seriously yes negative health rolls on items is very frustrating
it makes sense on weapons but why is it so annoying on armor
wicked juniper
west leaf
no way.
wicked juniper
like ok i dont mind if it's on leo it has like 3 ids or whatever
but guillotine has three thousand five hundred eighty seven or so idk
ivory schooner
where are the item changes?
elder swan
https://forums.wynncraft.com/threads/item-team-thread-item-ingredient-major-id-changes-updates-more.269645/page-51#post-3526074
(It's scattered)
ivory schooner
thanks
earnest junco
if someone tells me the downside is that it's rng i'm going to send you a pictur...
Obviously it has neg hp to make it have bad Paladin synergy (else ETWF paladin would clearly be op)
This way it gives like -20% fire dmg
With burning heart
Speaking of paladin, I heard martyr would be changed
I hope that'll come in the open beta patch
rocky parcel
god guillotine makes me want to hurt someone
like i dont even care that it was n...
heheha
in all seriousness guillotine was a huge fucking mistake of an item anyway and i genuinely think negative health is just about the most relevant theme stat but
ideally it also wouldn't have (as many) other stats that were giga roll heavy and important
personally i was pushing for zero health and negative health because it is balanced but the others wanted it to have some health at least
west leaf
why not just make it have negative health by default though
rocky parcel
i think health bonus is an id that should only be on armour if it's thematically relevant
but rarely if ever is it more relevant than on an item named guillotine
earnest junco
but rarely if ever is it more relevant than on an item named guillotine
Wouldnt it thematically be the same if it for example had -1k hp and no health stat
rocky parcel
nope
simple talon
Imo yeah, I associate -hp with painful/glassy themes honestly more than I do with rollable hp, like if rev was super low base hp and had no -hp I think it'd be thematically stronger than how it currently is
rocky parcel
rev should have been the 0hp design it used to have
simple talon
I really like items with base -hp tbh, they feel much more significant than items with low/no hp and a -hp rollable stat because I need to do the math in my head to see if its thematic
If it's just -hp base at default I'm just like "oh cool actively harmful to use this armor"
Obvious exception to weapons with -hp gimmicks of course
opal sable
because I need to do the math in my head to see if its thematic
🚎
rocky parcel
you guys voted against 0 hp guillotine with some -hp and preferred some hp guillotine with more -hp
you made yourself do math
look who's the fool now
opal sable
but the funny base -1337
simple talon
you guys voted against 0 hp guillotine with some -hp and preferred some hp guill...
I think? I voted yes for both since I cared more about the balance change than the way it was done but I would've preferred the 0 hp one
opal sable
it was a poll vote i forget what the numbers wer
young yew
base hp + negative rollable hp can be thematic when it points to opposing aspects or a transformation relevant to the idea
opal sable
or a rolling head chopped off by a guillotine
dusky marsh
Giga tryna hide in the sea of cyan names
west leaf
today I am going to bump item discussion
elder nymph
gg
wicked juniper
Thought it would be neat to use this new thread feature for an actual proper pur...
i agree
valid crystal
can i honestly say i don't really understand how darkness's dogma was designed
its a WF bow with a little health bonus and some inbuilt mana but it has a very tough -490 to -910 ls
esp considering its prepowder base is 637.5 which is like... not good
for comparison, here's plague (622.2 prepowder, w 1 more slot)
opal sable
legendaries have higher baselines than rares so it's not a great comparison
simple talon
I mean there also is a 15 level gap so I would say it's a fair comparison
(or 12 level since baselines don't change above 100)
raven cedar
me when two items created during completely different eras of wynncraft aren't comparable
opal sable
I mean there also is a 15 level gap so I would say it's a fair comparison
kinda gets minimized by the post-strdex flattening that brought baselines closer tbf
closer by level not by rarity
rocky parcel
darkness' dogma is so fucking based
well the reflection is still really odd & i don't get that
but aside from that the ids that matter are so based
drifting pike
can i honestly say i don't really understand how darkness's dogma was designed
dm me in like 1.5 hours
or ping me, either works
drifting pike
so basically darkness's dogma is built as a water/fire mana steal bow that takes advantage of the fact that bows tend to have higher lifesteal than pretty much everything else in the game in the opposite direction
health weighs down the -ls (which you are not going to have fun cancelling), eledefs weighs down the health, and higher damage than base so yeah
west leaf
it’s ok
drifting pike
I think it gets weighed down by factors out of its control
west leaf
can you say what those are
drifting pike
mmm being rare doesn't help
comparable base to plague, the latter of which is exclusively used in melee and the former of which can't because hee hoo -500ls and int req
opal sable
being rare is the main offender
rocky parcel
you guys are offending it it's doing wonders
west leaf
dont care
dusky marsh
comparable base to plague, the latter of which is exclusively used in melee and ...
EXCUSE ME
plague spell is based asfric
i wanna kiss whomever i see using hybrid plague
sharpshooter heavy hybrid plague 🥰
void mirage
sharpshooter heavy hybrid plague 🥰
drop the build 👀
https://hppeng-wynn.github.io/builder#7_0uB05W0JL0QR0GQ0TQ0SL0BR09f1a1a0Y1Q041g00001036COzz++++-tdLxSI7+4
WynnBuilder build:
Nychthemeron
Bete Noire
Greaves of the Veneer
Dawnbreak
Finesse
Draoi Fair
Momentum
Gigabyte
Plague [f6f6f6f6]
i threw together this but im def not an archer builder so 🗿
dusky marsh
that looks good to me
i use the epoch build in my discord
but you might as well use hybrid
i have a build planned using soulflare at some point
void mirage
noice
drifting pike
plague spell is based asfric
send build
dusky marsh
send build
https://hppeng-wynn.github.io/builder#7_0D80K70Ek0QR0EE0EE0SL0Ji09f1C110o1h001g00001031ZOzz++++-tdVVESlE
WynnBuilder build:
Darksteel Full Helm
Soulflare
Earth Breaker
Dawnbreak
Downfall
Downfall
Momentum
Contrast
Plague [f6e6e6f6]
i use epoch tho
drifting pike
ok that goes just a little bit hard
dusky marsh
ok that goes just a little bit hard
heavy hybrid turns me on so much
drifting pike
please don't describe it like that
dusky marsh
im still grieving over my 90% earth breaker glitching into non-existence though
f u 2.0 wynncraft
valid crystal
i wanna see if we get any spell-specific damage boosting id's
like, warp would get +10% 2nd Spell Damage, arbalest would get +30% 4th Spell Damage
opal sable
those don't exist
valid crystal
anyone have the updated buffed tna items
opal sable
the what
wicked juniper
when it says the rewards were buffed it meant the overall drops not the actual items 
opal sable
💀
soft matrix
valid crystal
💀
valid crystal
is Chain Rule a reference to calculus or is it a reference to an actual real world item
languid ore
calculus
opal sable
hahaha -1
rocky parcel
xavier's original draft of chain rule had -cost% and suggesting thrm to be -1 raw across the board was unironically one of my greatest ideas as IM
west leaf
wynncraft two point oh
rocky parcel
sorry poober wynncraft 2.0 has been delayed indefinitely
rocky parcel
well no obviously not anymore because 2.0 destroyed a lot of things on items
but it used to have -1 raws while pretty much all other spell cost armor at the time was -%
which is funny because it did actually resemble the chain rule
wicked juniper
i can see power rule
d(x^a) = ax^(a-1)
oh right
opal sable
yeah the chain rule only has -1s if it contains power rule
soft matrix
why did cataclysm's -1 spin not get changed at all i dont really get it
opal sable
there are about fifteen forums threads already on this topic
dusky marsh
Answer the goddamn question touhoku
potent scroll
there are about fifteen forums threads already on this topic
.
dusky marsh
Issajoke
languid ore
Stratiformis
soft matrix
cataclysm?
valid crystal
adrenaline
raven cedar
panic zealot
efteling
me when cata and strati both only have like 2 important combat rolls
languid ore
But if those rolls are bad the weapon is way less effective
dusky marsh
all of the above is correct so far imo
maybe cata not so much as the others
strati would be in the same boat but at least cata has the same base dmg regardless of stats
a strati without the ws is.............................
doom
raven cedar
depends on if you mean roll reliant as in "effectiveness depends heavily on its rolls" or roll reliant as in "it has many important rollable ids"
languid ore
First definition
void mirage
guillotine
i feel like most of the rare quad gear fit this category
valid crystal
is there anything that isn't?
well far cosmos
demon tide is heavily rollreliant
revenant would fall under many important rollable id's
cause sometimes its for its 4th spell, sometimes for rawstack (raw + %)
moontower on the other hand
earnest junco
strati would be in the same boat but at least cata has the same base dmg regardl...
Well I dont think you want to have 3k less hp on a cata build
Strati with bad ws still is good
Mythic base + still has like +40% ws
dusky marsh
Strati with bad ws still is good
defeats the whole point though
dusky marsh
demon tide is heavily rollreliant
not as much as it was in 1.0
u right about revenant
dusky marsh
dtide just isn't very good anymore crab rave
i think it's pretty well-balanced now
still roll reliant but balanced
it's good with divzer i think
only times ive built with it since 2.0 iirc
soft matrix
wasnt ambis spell nerfed by actually 5x
opal sable
yes it was
dusky marsh
discuss: should ambivalence get mana
no !
simple agate
wasnt ambis spell nerfed by actually 5x
Is it even remotely good now?
soft matrix
Is it even remotely good now?
i havent seen it used in a build since
valid crystal
cause i was thinking
ambi’s now p terrible since it’s spell got butchered
and bwash is no longer single-handedly sustaining for no-int spell
so: make ambi give some mana
soft matrix
or just give ambi like 150 spell so it doesnt suck that much ass
rocky parcel
i would revert ambivalence
if i could
unfortunately when spells cost no mana to use. well. there's a problem now isn't there
soft matrix
unfortunately when spells cost no mana to use. well. there's a problem now isn't...
major id ambivalence bandaid fix
rocky parcel
major id ambivalence bandaid fix
raven cedar
weh
there’s no way to use ambi and have 0 spell costs tho??
except like movement spells
dusky marsh
there’s no way to use ambi and have 0 spell costs tho??
the passive stuff
guardian angels
for example
i think thats why they nerfed it right?
they said they'd rather nerf the one gimmicky item thats buffing the shit out of stuff like boltslinger and summoner
its just easier to do
raven cedar
fair enough
dusky marsh
i do hope in future heavy spell becomes a thing tho
bc now we don't even have ambi
all the above has ruined the balanced and based stuff like
gale's sight shurikens fast hybrid
soft matrix
it would be really cool if there was a major id that just gave spells more damage if they took more mana
dusky marsh
it would be really cool if there was a major id that just gave spells more damag...
nyehhh i think people would just build more mana if the dmg buff was worth it though, no?
not THAT exciting of a major ID imo
it doesn't change the playstyle
soft matrix
just put it on ambi easy
dusky marsh
definitely not the worst mID idea i've seen though
dusky marsh
i dont think we need a mID to make heavy spell a reality tho
i honestly believe they have been working on a heavy spell project for months at this point
i have faith we'll get one one day
soft matrix
is there a possiblity that we'll see ability point tomes one day?
rocky parcel
is there a possiblity that we'll see ability point tomes one day?
maybe in 5 years time lol
anytime earlier absolutely not
valid crystal
oh hi hotfix 6
discuss: should furious effigy drain blood twice as fast
secondary discussion: should furious effigy make aura move twice as fast
tertiary discussion: should furious effigy make aura heal twice as much
i had this ready to ask people but then hotfix six came out
so i guess its pz aco time
also hypothesis: morph-specialist (and its associated counterparts morph-nothing and morph-overdrive)
(morph-olily is different, it uses the bomb cost)
are only really good because morph gives good tankiness with decent mana and some health sustain as well as a little raw damage, but all the damage is self-contained in the weapons
like, look at the stats: it's nearly impossible to (meaningfully) use % damage to buff these weapons
so because of how str and dex work, you need a decent amount of them to get to the level of damage morph hits
and you need decent def/agi for the tankiness
and of course you need int so
you can run rainbow, of course:
https://hppeng-wynn.github.io/builder#7_0cD09-0r507W0Xr0Xr02d0OH0pT11111S111w1g00001000FUzz++++-l7-ZTVF8
WynnBuilder build:
Morph-Stardust
Conduit of Spirit
Vaward
Capricorn
Prism
Prism
Atlas
Diamond Fusion Necklace
The Specialist [a6a6]
but like, this is worse (i mean i did throw this together in <1 min but like)
dusky marsh
oh hi hotfix 6
> discuss: should furious effigy drain blood twice as fast
> seco...
first: yes
second: mmm no
third: no
valid crystal
yeah i didn't think the third one should have ever existed
but the second one is interesting
wicked juniper
oh my goodness gracious
opal sable
people finally found selvut's master plan
languid ore
Why does it say custom item 🤯
opal sable
True...
valid crystal
no you see
the first one has no interesting things
the second one is untradable
the third one must logically be a custom item (/hj)
are these the items with the most identifications? (15)
ionic glen
Something I just brought up in feedback:
Lunar Spine 2.0 is currently a baby heavy spell wand. It's weird, because the HS is caused by ms being on super slow instead of increased spellcosts, but at least gameplay-wise it's playing like a heavy spell wand
Since Heavy Spell is currently in limbo, the only way to make Lunar actually functional is chaos explosion chaining, but I just wanted to note that the wand seems to have ended up a HS approach vector by complete accident(?)
it isn't just Ambi paving the way
also from the thread: convergent evolution of major id-eas
void mirage
lmao
opal sable
i dont think this analysis is particularly accurate
given that lunar spine arcanist rewards absurdly high cps and not low cps
(build low costs, abuse manastorm and arcane stuff to get a ton of mana back per cast, cycle a lot of chaos explosions)
if anything lunar has like a 12cps req in reasonable builds at least now 💀
because its ass
but it is not an actual heavy spell item in any regard and 'ambi paving the way' suggests a misunderstanding in the first place
also that major id is literally just concentration powder special
soft matrix
how is 12 cps absurdly high
opal sable
🤨
valid crystal
i've been playing for months and i still hit like only 7 cps
okay it might be a mouse issue but like
elder swan
12 cps mage with meteor knockback:
12cps is kind of stupid high, barely any 1.20 builds could even theoretically sustain that
opal sable
12cps is also pretty close to wynn 's spell input limit innit
elder swan
idk I can't reach 12 cps lol
dusky marsh
i will comment once i test lunar spine
which will be very shortly
i too have my complaints
mainly about melee which is fucking garbage
rn im using gaia
like
any gaia build u can think of im using it
this bad boi
elder swan
Explosive impact arcanist melee because its funny not because its good
Anyway lunar spine offhand is pretty funny, you can use it to instantly refill ur entire mana bar if there is a mob nearby
valid crystal
snake spam
gustnest
i can't get gustnest manastorm :doom:
does arcane transfer + thunderbolt cause 35 mana in bank per meteor?
elder swan
yes if you hit everything
opal sable
mainly about melee which is fucking garbage
currently I believe the best usage is on arcanist
since pyrokinesis gives you 1.5x that isn't shown on wynnbuilder
dusky marsh
currently I believe the best usage is on arcanist
yes it is
dusky marsh
since pyrokinesis gives you 1.5x that isn't shown on wynnbuilder
its still not a lot
and even then
opal sable
I'm aware
opal sable
Gaia also just sucks rn
dusky marsh
too overwhelming - why use heavy melee when i get infinite spell spam anyway?
i am in the process of writing notes for how to improve mage
but obviously i dont wanna be one of those cry babies you see daily on the forums
i need to test a bunch of trees
with at least a few weapons
ive been using heavy hybrid gaia/heavy melee (still hybrid lol) gaia
arcanist
i need to test tierstack (fast hybrid moment)
then i will try boring riftbender orb flinger
fun fact: i havent touched trickster or light bender ONCE
wicked juniper
please touch trickster
soft matrix
trickster does not trick
supple rain
Trickster does not trick OR ster
But highbread is op with ETW trick so it is probably meant 2 b nerfed 
valid crystal
how does sacrificial shrine + geocentrism work
does it just like,,,,,, drain your health
oh wait i forgot you still cast totems
suggestion for geocentrism: make it treat you as your totem(s)
like, the totem is fixed to you
valid crystal
is totem skins a thing in base game
dusky marsh
Society if Narcissist was a cracked heavy melee relik stronger than aftershock with a load of -aura
Come here you- BONK
earnest junco
is totem skins a thing in base game
You can completely change totems using a texturepack if that's what you mean
west leaf
@earnest junco
valid crystal
today’s discussion: paradox
should it get -spellcosts
either that, or make it a heavy spell item
dusky marsh
No and no
earnest junco
<@404616822743367682>
hi
opal sable
absolutely not why would paradox get spell costs
dusky marsh
Because if i cant use slayer paradox then i deserve to switch the -3rd onto paradox duh
void mirage
is there a reason why paradox can’t be used with slayer? (hpr can be 90% cancelled with just contrast + archaic)
wicked juniper
wdym can't be used with slayer
valid crystal
cause im thinkin
paradox is still pretty ehhhhhhh
and the -int spell is also ehhhhhhh
cause you couldd be running like dtide in that slot
dusky marsh
Me when paradox melee
void mirage
Me when paradox melee
new meme build idea spotted
https://hppeng-wynn.github.io/builder#7_0Uk0000WD0Qq02C0Jf0SL0Ji0QY1B27+T0o0y1g000010036Czz++++-tzbjpT+0
WynnBuilder build:
The Queen's Headpiece
Dondasch
Paradox
Slayer
Archaic
Breezehands
Momentum
Contrast
Fatal [t6t6t6]
early mbm submission
wicked juniper
today i learned:
wtf this is so bad lol
void mirage
what item is this lore referring to?
stats look like they would pair with sveil or smth
the lore on sveil doesn't seem to match all that well
void mirage
interesting
opal sable
(I don't know this is well before my time)
young yew
post ultima
wicked juniper
what item is this lore referring to?
post-ultima
oops was too late
there's a few other lores that reference other items
like kratke and mighty pants iirc
earnest junco
there's a few other lores that reference other items
Thrundacrack shitting on Fatal
My favourite reference 😎
valid crystal
there's a few other lores that reference other items
every “Upgraded” item
dusky marsh
oh mein godt i didnt know this i must add green heracul to my collection list
opal sable
💀
dusky marsh
i alrdy have 94% post
opal sable
not blue :cringe:
dusky marsh
gimme the deathsplinter
valid crystal
ah
valid crystal
what if. elemental poison
dusky marsh
who what where when how why
valid crystal
me, elemental poison, here, now, by my imagination, to draw a parallel between poison and raw spell
on that note does the nothing have. melee damage
cause it used to and now it just kinda
doesn't
dusky marsh
oh shid
i didnt notice that the main was removed
soge
nobody used melee the nothing tho so its whatever
valid crystal
give the nothing back its 14000% melee
dusky marsh
still wont make mage melee good 
valid crystal
why?
wicked juniper
elemental mastery, probably
opal sable
would've have to be shifted to raw, and we decided that putting that much melee on a weapon with a billion life steal wasn't a great idea
earnest junco
It's not a big loss anyway
the nothing had really bad melee dmg
(at 55 dex the nothing had 302 melee dmg in 1.20)
opal sable
you could tstack the nothing into like 10k dps smh
you prolly still can with warchief 🚎
earnest junco
https://wynnbuilder.github.io/#4_09V0s20kT0Qq0Jf0050070Ji0CD181V-d111M1g00000
WynnBuilder build:
Dune Storm
Toy Maker
Second Wind
Slayer
Breezehands
Summa
Back-Up Plan
Contrast
The Nothing []
first wynnbuilder.github.io link in ages
ionic glen
cursed concept: two items, yin and yang are already taken so lets call them alpha and omega
alpha gives you like +200 int but completely cancels that out with ids that increase your spellcosts to nowhere near sustainable amounts
omega has a 200 int req and boosts your spell damage by "who needs sustain, heavy spell lets gooo" amounts
in an effort to learn more about classbuilding, please tell me the myriad ways in which this is a terrible idea
because it most definitely is, but idk quite how
it's basically ambivalence but it locks you harder into
ohhhh i see
opal sable
lmao
ionic glen
maybe it ought to give you an insane dex bonus and crater int instead
opal sable
anyway this is an issue regardless of what sp it is because then you only need the two rings to meet whatever mythic reqs
fading shadow
i am
opal sable
it's true!
simple agate
in an effort to learn more about classbuilding, please tell me the myriad ways i...
passive spells
ga, ophanim, maybe totem + tether
drifting pike
ga, ophanim, maybe totem + tether
how could you forget literally all of summoner lol
valid crystal
here comes the “patch the bad idea with a worse idea”
Impassive Major ID: Passive Spells (list all on respective ability tree) have their damage reduced by 70% multiplicative
opal sable
skull
earnest junco
anyway this is an issue regardless of what sp it is because then you only need t...
@ionic glen It'd work as long as it has a high requirement
110 int req + 190 int
300 int req
Something like that
Could also be an even higher requirement
opal sable
yeah but at that point you're basically making mythic items and it'd just make more sense as a set bonus
elder nymph
did the thread die again :/
rocky parcel
touhokus item making thread forever more popular nuuuuu
opal sable
😦
cloud forge
what is the purpose of the -1ms and sprint on epoch it seems kinda insignificant/irrelevant
elder swan
the -1ms is probably more of a 1.20 thing
raven cedar
90% sprint
insignificant
opal sable
have you seen the way trade market people react to any change ever
it is a lose lose all the time
cloud forge
ok thats fair
simple agate
have you seen the way trade market people react to any change ever
Yes, its extemely funny
simple agate
Like, insanely fucking funny
late epoch
without adding a dex req
is this the most spell% you can get out of a ring?
other than replacing jewel deposit w another naval stone
i just have the recipe like that so it can fit in a build im making
cloud forge
could you replace borange fluff to get more stats in exchange for durability
late epoch
ah hmmm
more or less wondering if there were any recipes similar to vortexian main attack flip but for spell jewelry
40% spell definitely isnt anything to scoff at
but that answers my question, thank you
raven cedar
r e v i v e
exotic perch
just leave the thread dead
elder swan
Bart when will u start new discussion topics again
cloud forge
what kind of playstyle/build was compliance made for
cloud forge
negative mana regen
700 hp is definitely significant but like omg eledefs
is it actually just an eledef patch bracelet + ws ls
opal sable
yeah this is incredible for etw
you can build enough mana that you can take the -8
700 hp, good eledef coverage, 16 walk speed, and 250 ls is huge
cloud forge
most people are pushing it to the side but I'll see if I like it
opal sable
Nychthemeron
Delirium
Chain Rule
Crater Print
Olive
Olive
Compliance
Contrast
Deathsplinter [e6t6t6]
☺️
Nychthemeron
Delirium
Lion's Pelt
Mistico
Olive
Olive
Compliance
Contrast
Event Horizon [t6t6]
holy fk lion's pelt
cloud forge
yeah I guess you don't mr if spellsteal
opal sable
well i am also cheating by using arcanist
cloud forge
insert one gust of wind
torpid crow
lion's pelt...
cloud forge
ok but that's with event horizon hp
opal sable
yes the stats from a build come from the items I used in the build 🙏
cloud forge
obstinance is pretty cool i approve of the negative mana regen existing
elder swan
mana tomes
opal sable
🤣
rare cloak
WHAT
earnest junco
What's the new set / set bonus?
cloud forge
2/3
- 10 stealing
- 25 ws
- 15 ms
- 250 ls
3/3
- 150 raw hpr
- 50% hpr
- 50% sprint regen
- 25 mr
- 35 ws
ripe olive
no way item thing
raven cedar
wow that’s crazy
ripe olive
real
zenith sinew
something something item discussion
exotic perch
You unarchived the channel when it didn’t need to be 😕
wet pendant
are all the mythics supposed to be equally balanced
cloud forge
whar the freak #984944802799972362
wet pendant
ok
west leaf
Me personally I hate items
rocky parcel
so real for that
elder yoke
Inscrutable Illusion is the worst item in the game. Depressing Relik is better
rocky parcel
why did this thread suddenly revive
this was meant to be the original #984944802799972362 but i forgot to advertise it as such at the time lol
dusky marsh
yooo
drifting pike
since when did this exist
rocky parcel
like day 1 of threads
elder yoke
Since when did Bart leave this server? What?
rocky parcel
@sinful mountain this thread
sinful mountain
rocky parcel
TRUE
Thought it would be neat to use this new thread feature for an actual proper purpose, maybe it'll turn out as something- discussion about specific individual items (balance, design, w/e), I guess
raven cedar
wild
proper egret
incredible
rocky parcel
it's cringe but it's not that bad
just mana rolls that keep it interesting accidentally also keep it from really being amazing
raven cedar
that's like saying ryan is cringe but not that bad
hoary chasm
If stardew and galleon had sp it’d be more sexy
rocky parcel
galleon actually has a better design concept than stardew or revenant
rocky parcel
it's just been powercreeped to hell
hoary chasm
Plenty of items have 3 stats that need it do damagagaga
rocky parcel
wtfrick
raven cedar
trift galleon -4 tiers would be epic
hoary chasm
oily sslow trigger wtfrig
raven cedar
ewf is ok I think
hoary chasm
ewf is avage
hoary chasm
hetu
rocky parcel
ewf is kinda average, yeah, but i feel like for most cases it's average in the nice way rather than the bad way
raven cedar
hetu in ewf :doom:
proper egret
cancer
hoary chasm
I want twa to be somewhat cooler
rocky parcel
cancer still feels a bit strange but i think its current design works rly well for it
proper egret
1 cool twa build
proper egret
and it was crafted
rocky parcel
TWA rawstack
and
and
and
;w;
hoary chasm
Oh no
proper egret
twfa is so sex already
hoary chasm
Yeah
rocky parcel
oh yeah quads are generally ballin
raven cedar
twa could be cool if mana existed in TA items
proper egret
yeah
cal and i were talking about tris yesterday and kind of agreed that quads are just
better
proper egret
twa could be cool if mana existed in TA items
gemini
ig
is like
the only thing that comes to mind
rocky parcel
man quads are kinda hard to exclude
obviously stuff like guillotine exists but also
almost every item good int tris is also good in quads
rocky parcel
wouldn't be surprised if a lot of items kinda should be having slightly higher reqs to prevent extremely easy quad use
proper egret
etf + flapis is cool
rocky parcel
please do not bring the wretched being of flipped large lapis accessories into balance discussion
rocky parcel
crafteds have a weird nature of balancing
rocky parcel
kind of, yeah
they are intended to be super powerful but sometimes making the call of when things are too super powerful is unclear
proper egret
mm
hoary chasm
I find flapis funny but even funnier in 1.19 when firstly no one else used and secondly it was better
raven cedar
I feel like
if we wanted actual crafted balance
it might be nice to actually go through some of the lower lvl ings and just
stare at them
for a long while
before deleting them and starting over with more than 1 person working on them
proper egret
idk i think the ability to make an item more powerful than the rarest items in the game is a bit ppfart
rocky parcel
not all the lower level ings are bad but yeah
raven cedar
not bad more like ridiculously overpowered because why
cough burnt skull cough cough
rocky parcel
okay there are a few low level op ingredients yeah
hoary chasm
Viking stones funny
rocky parcel
but there are also so many really bad ones
like, t1s that are entirely completely useless
raven cedar
ok fair but that applies to normal items as well
rocky parcel
t0s are the normal items of ingredients
hoary chasm
Useful for levelling ig
proper egret
yeah
hoary chasm
Levelling with t1s is cool too
raven cedar
me when the wybel genocide
hoary chasm
Especially when people were mythic grinding so many throbbing avo hearts
raven cedar
mm
hoary chasm
Mmm
raven cedar
somewhat regretting not getting 132 cooking during that time
but oh well its whatever
hoary chasm
Mythics I do wanna see changes to most daggers
proper egret
inferno moment
rocky parcel
cata nerf, inferno rework?
proper egret
cata nerf, inferno rework?
based
hoary chasm
Grim wants its ls back
raven cedar
grim would be interesting if it got cherry bombs but it would also be pretty op
proper egret
cata has occupied a niche in every meta since its release has it not
a pretty dominant one too
raven cedar
cata has never been nerfed p sure
proper egret
not significantly at least
rocky parcel
cata's been nerfed continuously until one huge buff in 1.18
raven cedar
I vaguely remember checking the changelogs and seeing 0 cata nerfs
hoary chasm
I think cata base should remain funny and it should just continue to play on funny -hp gimmick
young flame
cata nerfed, lost its air damage
raven cedar
mm ig wynndata didnt go that far back then
proper egret
I think cata base should remain funny and it should just continue to play on fun...
give it warp hpr
rocky parcel
(well, nerfed if it gets changed)
me omw to put a 1 in front of cata's -health
(it'll be funny)
hoary chasm
Would be funny
raven cedar
then give it 70-670 thunder again 
hoary chasm
Nooo the ws
raven cedar
70-180 neutral 70-670 thunder
proper egret
young flame
rocky parcel
i would like everyone here to remember the 1.18 beta version
young flame
nerfed!!
proper egret
any old hive armor enthusiasts
proper egret
anima helm was gigasex
young flame
we really just reverted to old cata base
rocky parcel
i would like everyone here to remember the 1.18 beta version
it was basically current cata but instead of -1 1st cost it had -100% 1st cost
raven cedar
man looking at the changelogs makes me feel old
rocky parcel
(and at that point in time, cost% still affected even repeat cost)
proper egret
anima: https://wynndata.tk/ci/441762795
boreal:
https://wynndata.tk/ci/809989831
heph:
https://wynndata.tk/ci/687391556
gaea:
https://wynndata.tk/ci/302339444
rocky parcel
old anima infused was really nice
raven cedar
ok the beta spell cost formula was funni af
proper egret
yes
raven cedar
and how everything had %
left notch
hi
young flame
(and at that point in time, cost% still affected even *repeat cost*)
infinite spins 😧
raven cedar
idol -260% 2nd lol
proper egret
idol
hoary chasm
Anime profile picker
proper egret
true
raven cedar
doom
rocky parcel
wtf ethereal if you want to show up here at least join the thread properly smh my head
proper egret
rocky parcel
anyway let's do try to keep this thread on topic
hoary chasm
Yes
proper egret
old hive weapons 🥺
hoary chasm
Grim, revert its changes where it lost some ls and ms became base 2
raven cedar
mfw hive weapons got nerfed and then olily got added
rocky parcel
you mean
hive weapons with 2 mr 2 ms instead of 1 mr 1 ms
proper egret
their base got memed and they got hit hard by powder nerfs
raven cedar
ok I gotta say it was hilarious when 2mr 2ms hive weapons were nerfed and then almost immediately olily was like hello yes 2mr 2ms
rocky parcel
man orange lily is concept-wise pretty good but then everything seems to have been done to make it still really good
mainly stuff like CCI making arrow shield so much less useful
rocky parcel
i will remain of the opinion that wynn is much better off without CCI
wicked juniper
i'm highbread
hoary chasm
Oily base is also skyhigh compared to other non mythic options ? Or am I imagining it’s that high
raven cedar
mm
rocky parcel
and then large hitboxes made it so much more useful again
arrow rain glitch moment
raven cedar
I like CCI because it means every single frickin boss wont get stuck in the walls from arrow storm
rocky parcel
it's not sky-high
raven cedar
just archer main things
rocky parcel
but yes it is one of the highest base damage nonmythic bows
proper egret
Oily base is also skyhigh compared to other non mythic options ? Or am I imagini...
tis
and its -bomb cost makes it that much easier to build with
rocky parcel
weapon spell costs man
hoary chasm
Somewhere in my head oily and spring bases are very much next to each other
rocky parcel
so cool but also make anything so good instantly
raven cedar
speaking of which why is crafted prepowder base 756 :despair:
rocky parcel
because crafteds with powders exist smile
wicked juniper
so cool but also make anything so good instantly
old inferna
proper egret
687.5 hive bow moment
rocky parcel
crafteds are essentially the alternative to mythics for those who aren't very lucky or rich right
now for weapons specifically they generally won't outperform mythic weapons (and if they do, that's not always even the fault of the mythic)
raven cedar
for bows
WWW 897.5
EEE 931.25
AAA 915
TTT 935
FFF 915
:v
rocky parcel
which is why they're so high- and the fact that powders add more damage than they really should is not helping either
proper egret
now for weapons specifically they generally won't outperform mythic weapons (and...
depths gem go crazy
rocky parcel
yeah exactly, you can boost crafted weapons by a lot as well
rocky parcel
which means that the "lesser-gimmicked" mythics (the ones that are mainly just high base damage or high base damage with a single extra stat) tend to sweat a lot when seeing crafted weapons
god gravity crystal
small turtle
which is why they're so high- and the fact that powders add more damage than the...
20 powder slots
grave igloo
guys. BART is trying to NERF WARRIOR. can you believe that he thinks WARRIOR is in need of a HUGE NERF?
raven cedar
whu
rocky parcel
pls i wanted this to be a serious channel
raven cedar
I feel like it will very quickly devolve into people complaining about certain mythics
grave igloo
^^
hoary chasm
grrr buff mythics I own
grave igloo
^^
rocky parcel
well
the item team thread has been surpisingly super devoid of those types of comments
so i do have relatively high hope that this channel won't be that
hoary chasm
on a warrior and mythic complaint note
a reminder alka got its -15s on the same patch gma got 70 agi,
now while I wanna see alka be somewhat stronger I dont wanna see it lose the 15s I just wanna see some sort of buff
rocky parcel
alkatraz is like depression in a bottle
raven cedar
alka with powder slots 
rocky parcel
it will never get powder slots
its design can go many ways but it will never get powder slots
raven cedar
sad noises
anyway -15 is hm.
hoary chasm
-15s are cool
raven cedar
well you could either
rocky parcel
the -15s are interesting but they really don't exist for a good reason
hoary chasm
if it got another ID idk if there would be anything to fit it well
raven cedar
remove them and slightly nerf alka base
or buff alkas base slightly
or just not touch alka
hoary chasm
touch alka
raven cedar
it would be very interesting if alka got spell dmg actually
rocky parcel
earth dmg % c:
spring bloom
it would be very interesting if alka got spell dmg actually
WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK
hell no
nvm
hoary chasm
earth def % 
raven cedar
funni alka fast hybrid
spring bloom
yeah
i want alka hybrid
nah
alka heavy hybrid
or fuckin
alka spellsteal
lesgo
raven cedar
I am opposed to alka getting more ids bc I want another perfect mythic and alka is one of the easiest to roll
rocky parcel
lol
hoary chasm
Major ID 
rocky parcel
alka is probably one of the strongest major id contenders
hoary chasm
cant really think of a decent flavoursome one for it
rocky parcel
not going to put any ideas in the case they happen but like
raven cedar
alka is very,,,,,,, bland in a way that doesn't lend itself to major ids
spring bloom
in its desc
rocky parcel
alka is kinda by design supposed to be this really simple, really straight-forward high damage option
spring bloom
maybe weaken enemies
rocky parcel
which is why it "just" has super high base and really not much else, not even powder slots
raven cedar
inb4 alka major id that allows it to attack faster than super fast 👀
spring bloom
tf
raven cedar
would be such a ridiculously massive buff to dmg lmao
rocky parcel
so yeah, because of that gimmick & the general state of alka atm, it makes sense to eventually have it buffed through a major ID of some sort
hoary chasm
I only use alka in ETA the idea of new centi upsets me
spring bloom
i mean probs actrually
hoary chasm
and I still dislike how it was changed
rocky parcel
crafted tiers are a moment and a half
hoary chasm
I think increasing existing reqs to 55 or smthn would have been better
spring bloom
i mean it sucks
raven cedar
would be nice if crafted tiers didnt either have extremely high reqs or extremely punishing -melee but there isnt really another way to balance is there
rocky parcel
centipede was changed that way specifically because it needed to be pushed out of virgo/twilight-gilded combo
raven cedar
D:
rocky parcel
which couldn't really have been done well any other way without just dumpstering all the other stats of centipede, unfortunately
raven cedar
necrosis hm
rocky parcel
at least centipede can do neat stuff in quad occasionally
raven cedar
more than occasionally actually
now that sp slap is meta etfa tierstack is more gaming than ever
raven cedar
centipede is still really strong with the ws/stealing/tiers
hoary chasm
ETFA okr flameshot is kinda cool
raven cedar
centipede okr prowess 🥰
rocky parcel
mmm feel like a lot of quad tierstack does tend to also just happen because of a few tier items with nutty sp
(chestplates)
hoary chasm
smacketh jacketh too
rocky parcel
yeah it counts
raven cedar
also nethers car
spring bloom
here is stupid crafted
https://wynnbuilder.github.io/crafter.html#19f737B9t7B9t9a91
Boots Lv. 103-105 (3✫, 3✫)
[ Major's Badge | Ironwood Chips
Luxroot Cuttings | Plasteel Plating
Luxroot Cuttings | Plasteel Plating]
rocky parcel
though i'd say that sustain is generally preferred from a non-tier option rather than ehp
(when building in quad)
raven cedar
fair
rocky parcel
gemini my beloved where are you
spring bloom
HOT
raven cedar
why ._.
why is rally so much sustain
hoary chasm
RoTS +1 charge cost
ii +1 charge cost
hoary chasm
I feel rally is too spammable
rocky parcel
the items rally is on are relatively limited and rally is not quite as spammable as, say, heal plus requires movement
spring bloom
we should invite salted to this so he can fix items jk
rocky parcel
the 15% for allies probably is redundant tho
rocky parcel
we should invite salted to this so he can fix items jk
bruh
spring bloom
ik
raven cedar
ok heal is its own thing but
rally alone equates to roughly 5k hpr (sometimes more)
hoary chasm
the items rally is on are relatively limited and rally is not quite as spammable...
I think the movement is still an unfair trade off for healing to full hp in 2 movement cycles
small turtle
look down
ripe olive
owo moment
raw beacon
The combo of rally + evading enemies is fairly strong in and of itself
With mage you’d tp out of danger and then heal vs rally which does 2 in 1
proper egret
I am opposed to alka getting more ids bc I want another perfect mythic and alka ...
another???
hoary chasm
perfect disco exist
raven cedar
mage heal spam allows you to not even have to move but sure
proper egret
The combo of rally + evading enemies is fairly strong in and of itself
not really ime
raw beacon
That’s just how I use it, but there may be more optimal ways
proper egret
well i've almost exclusively used rally in wars where it's just not possible to evade mobs
proper egret
mage heal is way better because not only does it heal more, but it's instant whereas for rally, the charge needs to land
proper egret
well i've almost exclusively used rally in wars where it's just not possible to ...
however this has happened to me in tcc golem room
and nol boss fight
so
not just
wars
pp
also i assume rally stops inspire bonus from occuring, not that i've ever noticed it anyway, correct?
hoary chasm
n
ripe olive
penwis
wicked juniper
thoughts on blossom haze vs trickpockets (no mythics)
proper egret
trickpockets infinitely more gaming
strdex blossom haze might be better than before but i still vastly prefer trickpockes
raven cedar
what is inspire bonus
also trickpockets would be better except bhaze tends to do more dmg
simple talon
since 9-cost upper I think
past cape
What in the what
past cape
Is it the same with rally?
proper egret
probably didn't know about it because it's barely noticeable and nobody knows how it works
past cape
Technically u cant hit mobs so it wont work
past cape
Crafteds degrade with agi so maybe
proper egret
afaik it negates bash boost but doesn't negate this, what happens instead is if you have warscream, inspire procs, overriding the warscream bonus, and then when inspire ends, you don't get your warscream def bonus back
wary meadow
Pretty sure Rally still deals damage, it just reduces charge damage to 1%
So I think it will still activate
However you need to hit a large amount of enemies to make it work
I don't think it'll activate on 1 mob unlike bash boost
hoary chasm
I think while gma itself is quite strong rn probs doesnt need a nerf
safe geode
gma is strong but you also die in 1 hit so
proper egret
based
proper egret
I don't think it'll activate on 1 mob unlike bash boost
have there been calculations for how long bash boost lasts based on the number of mobs it hits or something like that
simple talon
Capsaicin is epic
proper egret
broken balance
austere quarry
capsid frame is pretty viable and phage pins is pretty good too
simple talon
Crystal coil has the second highest raw melee for chestplate in the game
still oxide
oh yeah it survived the nerfs
rocky parcel
it did get a nerf, but it was relatively small
remember that it pretty much carries heavy melee for the next 20 levels
still oxide
ye
wicked juniper
ivory :(
rocky parcel
sorry
raven cedar
crabs :v
rocky parcel
still ETW though
and yeah galleon is probably the worst out of all the mythics boots atm
or at least the most outclassed
wicked juniper
memento :(
simple talon
Memento :(
simple talon
Base 3 Mana regen memento when
safe geode
and to an extent stardew and boreal
Yeah
Stardew needs some changes
Less roll reliance too
proper egret
true
proper egret
Base 3 Mana regen memento when
TRUE
proper egret
Less roll reliance too
this is a general thing that needs to happen with a lot of items
safe geode
Yeah
safe geode
this is a general thing that needs to happen with a lot of items
Especially on mythics that aren't worth rolling past [3]
safe geode
ee
I feel like mythics in general should be build defining, whereas most boots are just a nice addition
proper egret
Especially on mythics that aren't worth rolling past [3]
also for items like nychthemeron, guillotine, pro tempore, etc
safe geode
mmmm