Lets talk about riftwalker

[coral sage]

This archetype is the absolute definition of slop.

1. Don't build any sustain because it gifts you that for free.
2. Don't build any walk speed because it also gifts you that for free.
3. You can basically just do random shit and cast 1 spell every 5s and get super high damage (regardless of etw/whatever else).
4. Heal spell to top it all off because like why the fuck not.

Before I get hounded, I'm not saying everything needs to be spell spam, nor am I saying everything needs to be complicated/hard to play, but it gets to a point 🥀

Despite the nerf it got, this shit is still op as fuck and the stats back it up, having the highest usage rate in EVERY RAID BY FAR

[raven harbor]

Jack of all trades, master of all?

I agree that no one aspect of it is broken, it's more just that everything is good at once. Mana sustain? Good. Health sustain? Good on-demand. Survivability? You have high movement and some extra DR. Damage? Ramping up takes little time. The archetype has no shortfalls to keep it in check.

[wraith fiber]

goodbye boltslinger hello riftwalker

[coral sage]

yo at least boltslinger was low hp for the kind of damage this shit is doing and u had to build sustain 💔

[raven harbor]

I just wouldn't be as harsh as you were in this post here. For example, most played archetype does not mean best archetype. It means the most popular one at the current time, which can be for a number of things- like being new, or having high ease of use. Light Bender is pretty terrible for damage and has some meh support, yet is consistently near the top for this reason.

[coral sage]

except rift is being used not just by new players for ease-of-use now and actually by experienced players because its insane

[wraith fiber]

you gotta go glass on most archetypes to tie what rift gets to put out on tank

[raven harbor]

Never said anything about new players using it. I said that a new rework is shiny and draws attention for a while.

[wispy basin]

LB being terrible for dmg

Halcyon

[coral sage]

At least with that its more that Halcyon is saving lightbender, in riftwalkers case basically any weapon including non mythics is really strong, but still true

[jovial stag]

on the bright side acro is up near the top where it belongs 🔥 but yeah riftwalker simply does too much, I like the dot playstyle, but it doesnt need what like 3 forms of damage reduc and I think time dilation and uncapped distortion are a bit weird even if it is basically capped, it is mage so I'm not gonna lose sleep over the mana being very high

[coral sage]

im also fine with it being a kind of jack of all trades it just does everything way too well atm

[wispy basin]

we live in a society where frenzy has a piss 70% base cap meanwhile rw gets 200 for free

[pallid leaf]

I don’t think this is bad. It’s a simple gameplay loop that is fun, and lets players avoid having to focus hard on builds, which I appreciate as someone who doesn’t want to work too hard on designing a build.

[coral sage]

yes but its overtuned and discourages you from playing like anything else cos its broken

[pale brook]

I don't car

[coral sage]

1yum i will eat u

[pale brook]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1149237737174605894/1403891787348840619/togif.gif

[pallid leaf]

I don’t believe that. If you do not enjoy playing it, do not. There is nothing about the class that causes other classes to suffer.

Wynn has multiple character slots so you can play any class.

[sleek sparrow]

500k dps 60k ehp (before dr) 0 need to build sustain infinite mobility aoe and access to heal

Yeah dude just because I can avoid the pile of shit that is riftwalker doesn't mean that there isn't a pile of shit on the floor

[true coyote]

moontower:

[pallid leaf]

Why do you care, you’re not playing it? If I dine at a restaurant and don’t like the food, I don’t need to never eat out again.

[wraith fiber]

you can not want to spend time making a build or learning a cycle but to say that it should outperform real builds is just not it

[torn flare]

whats the point of balancing then if the solution is always to just /class

[wraith fiber]

like if you dont want to interact with class building go ahead but you shouldnt get all the reward anyway.....

[pallid leaf]

To avoid crashing wynns economy.

[wispy basin]

are you beetown with the mootower

[pallid leaf]

The reward is playing the endgame?

[spark frost]

is this just monster riftwalker hate #100

[true coyote]

ey I use halal mtower summ once

[wraith fiber]

you can do that with a nerfed rift nothing stopping you ^^

[coral sage]

so what is the issue with nerfing it then, you can just /class bro whats the issue

[pallid leaf]

Except the fact that I’ll have to find actual builds, which I don’t enjoy doing, in order to successfully do anything

[iron vigil]

hoping AT moves on from rw soon

[sleek sparrow]

https://wynnbuilder-beta.github.io/builder/#CT013HxGiK4VJHgJITI15YF2jcD00SI5aB0yUUHcq6TTQ3

Wynnbuilder build:
Polyglot
Tautology
Omniverse
Stalking Mist
Lumino Blossom
Lumino Blossom
Prowess
Compromise
Singularity [t7t7t7t7t7t7t7t7t7t7t7t7t7t7t7]

hello this is my oc riftwalker build that does 500k dps + insane aoe + hp/mana sustain + 40k ehp after dim tear

[wraith fiber]

ok so you want the reward of trivializing content without putting in the work to make something that trivializes it

[pallid leaf]

The issue is the fact that I actively wish to play the class in its current state.

[sleek sparrow]

Well there's a build linked just now that is the complete definition of slop and is much better than any build on half the archetypes

[pallid leaf]

I guess if you want to cater to individuals more focused on repeating the endgame, that’s fine. But it will not be likely to keep casual players.

[coral sage]

i actively wish to play boltslinger with 2m dps so can we add that now

[sleek sparrow]

Yeah I actively wished to play bolt with an 18 block kill aura

[wispy basin]

you should use mootower immolation quaran approved

[sleek sparrow]

Or 15m dps trickster

[pallid leaf]

Ask the mods. I’m perfectly fine with what is almost fully a single player game for any casual player having broken stuff when you optimize it.

[coral sage]

things get nerfed for a reason, balance isnt just imaginary, rift is overtuned at minimum in damage, nerfing the damage will not stop you from playing rift, but it needs a nerf like

[sleek sparrow]

We should not nerf stuff because balance is imaginary and wynncraft is a singleplayer game

[pallid leaf]

As long as I am capable of still beating the games quests and story stuff without having to go into omptimization, I’m fine with it.

[wraith fiber]

what you are saying is essentially the endgame singleplayer content is too hard on 99% of archetypes so this 1% that is completely out of the ordinary is good and that i deserve to instantly win on it

its just stupid, why cant i play elden ring with a sword that one taps

[pallid leaf]

You can. If you hyper optimize. But then that’s your choice.

[sleek sparrow]

also yea lol it's not like nerfing rw = cannot play the game

[coral sage]

Then we agree ig

[sleek sparrow]

You can definitely do endgame content on like every archetype other than maybe ritualist and trapper if you just grab rainbow mythic and slap rainbow item 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

[wraith fiber]

your issue is not riftwalker nerf is bad your issue is the game is too hard for you.....

[torn flare]

icl the quest bosses and stuff in fruma being way too hard sometimes is another issue that is completely unrelated to archetype balancing

[sleek sparrow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cditkjUp1Y

riftwalker is still balanced

[pallid leaf]

How would you expect someone to get a mythic without grinding. It’s not like the quests reward you with eight stx to go buy something.

[true coyote]

woah you have to grind for top weapons now?

[spark frost]

pre nerf rw ❤️

[pallid leaf]

If that’s required to beat endgame content that is still a part of the story you’ve been following, yes.

[sleek sparrow]

Shattershard being quest reward and 30 le

Okay sure let me amend my statement you can do endgame content with most stuff if you grab insert rainbow gear and some rainbow legendary weapon

[sleek sparrow]

It quite literally isnt and if you think it is required that says more about you than anything else

[pallid leaf]

You literally said it was. In your message.

[pallid leaf]

.

[sleek sparrow]

reading comprehension challenge

[wraith fiber]

you can argue the endgame content is too hard. that doesnt mean riftwalker isnt standout broken.]

like both can be true

[sleek sparrow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cditkjUp1Y

I can't do endgame content without optimized build btw

The optimized build n question being NORMAL ARMOR and DEPRESSING STICK

[pallid leaf]

The most casual example of a casual player I’ve ever seen.

[sleek sparrow]

Genuinely any half competent person could do that

[pallid leaf]

I’m talking about a casual player who wants to casually experience the games story.

[coral sage]

yo do u see this build

[pallid leaf]

I give up. Have a wonderful day.

[true coyote]

@pallid leaf can you summarize your point into 1 concise message lol

[wraith fiber]

why is there no easy mode in dark souls games moment i fear

[coral sage]

i am going to go ahead and say they dont actually know what riftwalker can do and are larping

[sleek sparrow]

https://wynnbuilder-beta.github.io/builder/#CT0eFHrJKL47D1000000000mO3GoWa1uzyY8wKFzQ3

Wynnbuilder build:
Gleaming Titanium Helmet
Gleaming Titanium Chestplate
Gleaming Titanium Leggings
Gleaming Titanium Boots
No Ring 1
No Ring 2
No Bracelet
No Necklace
Depressing Stick []

[wraith fiber]

the difficulty is kinda the point, hyping up people and bosses and then having the fight be so trivial would damage the story

[coral sage]

ur entire point is around rift being able to do general content which it would easily be able to do with its damage cut in HALF

[wraith fiber]

like if you want to play a story about you being a god or something there are plenty of games that are just that but thats just not what wynn is.

[pallid leaf]

I am a casual player, I do not want to have to grind for money to afford a build. I do not want to have to build in the first place in order to beat the games quests. I am here for the story, and I do not want to have to spend significant time on things I will not get any enjoyment out of it.

[pallid leaf]

I want to experience wynns story. Not some power fantasy.

[coral sage]

Ok and rift could easily do this with a nerf so there is no real issue here

[pallid leaf]

But I digress, food time.

[coral sage]

larping

[true coyote]

so your point is that rift being overpowered is good for the sake of the "casual" players?

[wraith fiber]

okay and wynns story has strong opponents to overcome, which you can do through building and improving. you are asking for the power fantasy.

[sleek sparrow]

And how does nerfing riftwalker prevent you from doing this

Like idk if a skilled player can do endgame content on quite literally the worst build imaginable any casual player with a build that does 25x the dmg and has superior mana/hp sustain can also do endgame content

And smth smth monkey type out shakespeare

[brazen wave]

this is a thread about balancing, just saying to /class is derailing tbh

[true coyote]

@pallid leaf if you don't want to grind or overcome difficulty/improve your skill in order to progress, then I suggest getting off wynncraft and most mmos in general and switch to a more casual game that does hold your hand in terms of gameplay :)

[sleek sparrow]

Wynncraft isn't even that hard vro

Like 😭 we NEED an extremely overpowered archetype that gives you literally everything AND it needs to be hyperoptimized to do endgame content clearly

If it gets nerfed the game is impossible to enjoy!

[simple mortar]

buff all other archetypes to be on par with riftwalker and afterwards multiply all enemy stats to counteract 🧠

[true coyote]

following your logic @pallid leaf , don't like the restaurant's food? don't eat there again

[sleek sparrow]

Get this guy on ct rn

[thorn ice]

isnt this what morph is for? or is morph not enough for twp

who recommended this guy a full build

[wispy basin]

maybe the solution was to make fruma quest bosses a walking joke so the casual vs pro player debacle never arises again!!!

[polar gust]

Nerf riftwalker but instead make arcanist really busted and overpowered

Please

It needs its day in the sun

[wraith fiber]

done but all the damage is in judra and it moves 5x faster with 1 block aoe

tcc merchant 💡

[steep compass]

idk what people are complaining about, rift is totally balanced and deserves getting arcanist nodes and not the other way around 🔥

[tropic tendon]

Wynn always needs a disparity between the 1st and 2nd strongest class (bonus points if it only stays relevant for 4-5 months) so Salted can make more meta-slaves play his game for longer and buy more shout bombs and shares to buy the new defacto meta build

[steep compass]

real talk why does rift get meteor speed and arcanist cannot access it like??

also heal, resistance, sustain and insane damage

[neat herald]

@steel eagle say bye.

Fell for 4/10 ragebait at best from A Person 💔

[coral sage]

engagement farming its all part of the plan

[frozen quail]

I don’t know why you guys even intervened with his schematics.

How can you take interest in an uninteresting guy.

[ashen heart]

holy sephiroth

[fluid cradle]

New archetype must have EVERYTHING

[true coyote]

it's what makes them interesting

[jovial stag]

because when you have an ability that lets you cast 20 meteors and casting more doesnt increase your dps they better be FAST

[steep compass]

the dps wouldn't be different if they were slow or fast

[ashen swift]

Massive agree, I'm tired of seeing Rift players doing almost as much damage as I am on ETW and even more than some of my more relaxed builds while having 3-4 times the EHp, Teleport as part of the cycle, huge AoE, homing, heal spell, everything.
It's not the items, it's not any one part, it's just a zero downside Archetype.

[jovial stag]

what? the dps is absolutely higher if they drop faster, afaik another doesn't spawn until one drops

[steep compass]

it has homing too I forgot

[steep compass]

😭

I mean it's too powerful to be given to arcanist

still annoyed they butchered entropy

[jovial stag]

is it worth running anymore?

[ashen swift]

I like the meteor speed changes

[jovial stag]

like ever

[steep compass]

Its still used on microwave

[ashen swift]

Entropy is still a significant QoL increase, I run Melancolia on builds that can fit it

[alpine relic]

just nerf monster smhh

leave warp alone pls i beg

[sleek marsh]

Am i tweaking or is not going to a restuarant where you dont like the food completely reasonable

[true coyote]

did I say it was unreasonable

[sleek marsh]

Normally when people say "following your logic" it leads to an unreasonable conclusion

[true coyote]

no, I was criticizing their usage of "not going to a restaurant because you hate the food", specifically when they said the above

may I ask, did you read the entire conversation with all of its context?

[sleek marsh]

Missed that singular message and executed my reading comprehension

[true coyote]

no worries lol

[frozen quail]

I’m not sure if A Person should take that as a compliment or an insult LMAO

[true coyote]

https://tenor.com/view/ryo-yamada-gif-7637934558308451700

[digital axle]

heard enough, buff riftwalker

[true coyote]

get out

🗣️

[frozen quail]

Also it’s funny that this thread gets like no downvotes, meanwhile the other thread that says verbatim to nerf Riftwalker has like a 50% like to liken’t ratio.

Goes to show how quick people are to react to things I guess.

[sleek marsh]

https://tenor.com/view/i'm-in-13-seconds-slide-in-meme-funny-true-gif-2616800489741375308

[glass nexus]

agreed, I can steamroll a lot of the Fruma content so far (I'm around level 114) with Lament and rainbow armor, and I end up not casting spells very often when my distortion is high

[true coyote]

it might be thanks to A Person

[frozen quail]

B Person

[digital axle]

I don't think I've met anyone who thinks riftwalker is balanced. this needs nerfs

[torn flare]

heard enough, nerf miner

[frozen quail]

Why nerf miner before buffing SPARKY?

[glass nexus]

in that Auburn Forest grind spot, I'm often waiting for more mobs to spawn

[digital axle]

😭

[sleek marsh]

Have we considered nerfing riftwalker by giving it ugly laggy vfx and really loud noises

[frozen quail]

Remember that buffs are more important than nerfs

[true coyote]

is this CR I smell

[hexed lodge]

please keep directing your attention to rw. there are no other archetypes in need of balancing at the moment :)

[frozen quail]

It is unfortunately

[digital axle]

acolyte is definitely dying vro

[true coyote]

cr in the big 26 🥀

[sleek marsh]

Paladin needs a damage buff

[true coyote]

FIX ASCENDANCY RAHHHHHHHHHHHH

[frozen quail]

Also majority of the arguments against Rift nerfs were just like “It takes too long to get to 500K DPS”

[sleek marsh]

❤️

[digital axle]

it's funny how 100k ehp can even build up to 500-600k

[frozen quail]

You see, if it takes an archetype 30s to build up to 600K while having ehp, sustain, and qol, it’s balanced.

[true coyote]

teleport meteor meteor cycle

[frozen quail]

Let’s see if Rift ends up like Trickster, forever broken.

[true coyote]

the difference with trick is that no one knows how to play trick

[frozen quail]

Ohhhhh right, assassin takes a brain.

It’s why a good Grimtrap is like 2-3 stx.

[digital axle]

isn't trickster cycle just spin multi spin multi

and detonate tricks

[true coyote]

I've yet to find a good trick in pfinder that isn't from seq 🙏

[digital axle]

catgirlscarlet is the goat

[true coyote]

naw it was superz

[sleek marsh]

Actually its up down left right im gonna move ma feet tonight

[unborn musk]

Overall do agree with the post. Some certain things like the ws / survivability should be toned down a bit

[true coyote]

for me, time dilation is just boring lol

[frozen quail]

Time Dilation should’ve gotten a node that decreases cooldowns on your abilities.

[frozen quail]

Yeah, you do have to multitask with cooldowns though… which is why info boxes are kind of necessary if you want to enjoy it.

Tbf if you’re a beginner and you look at Trickster, you’re probably not gonna understand a lot.

Then you look at a tutorial and it’s actually pretty simple, because everything draws down to malicious mockery!!!

[unborn musk]

I do want to eventually work on Trickster a bit, to make it easier to play and shift it's damage into the actual debuffs

[true coyote]

the airplane control panel archetype

[unborn musk]

-# No plan or anything for now, just a thought

[frozen quail]

Better work on it quickly, or else the Architects are still gonna be rampaging

[unborn musk]

[frozen quail]

I genuinely don’t think Trickster is bad with any mythic.

[sleek marsh]

Will there be new debuffs or leaning into the exisiting ones?

[unborn musk]

I'm still figuring it all out. There's no actual plan or anything at all yet. Just something I'd like to do one day

[raven harbor]

I play Trickster...

but yeah I've seen like 1-2 other Tricksters since Fruma released only

[unborn musk]

-# Same here ._.

[vernal gull]

There's already a lot

Although they do feel a bit useless at times

[unborn musk]

Yeah the effects on some of the current debuffs need work

-# Toxic...

[sleek marsh]

Will trickster have anything to do with poison? I cant really think of another class that could have it easily worked into the archetype.

[vernal gull]

Why toxic when you can wipe with the aoe damage of trick detonation with hoodwink ?

[warped flax]

fewer mana printers pls

[true coyote]

omg trick + toxo synergy?

[sleek marsh]

Precisely

[raven harbor]

I think it's a mix of Echo being nerfed by 25% and Trickster itself not being easy to learn at a glance or from a quick explanation?
Someone in my guild was used to spell order not being important outside of bmonk and couldn't found out why their damage was abyssmal
Dude didn't even bother looking at ANY of the nodes, and I doubt that this is a unique case

[vernal gull]

Trick feels really braindead to play tbh

[raven harbor]

if it can't be intuited or taught in under a minute it's already lost a huge chunk of appeal

[raven harbor]

once you're used to it yes
if you haven't used it before, you have no idea what you're doing

[vernal gull]

The only thing i don't like is the fact that the debuffs aren't displayed at the top of the screen, its a bit painful to track how manu tricks there are on boss enemies

[vernal gull]

Doesn't it apply for essentially all archetypes ?

[unborn musk]

Not decided yet. Would be interesting but probably would be messy to work around with

[raven harbor]

boozle-spin with occassional mixups like smoke first for higher overal damage, pre-placing Shadow Clones to either escape somewhere FAST or to get extra Echo casts to hit, keeping track of Tricks on enemies, using Mirage in a way your cooldowns are actually reduced, etc.

[raven harbor]

that's my point

[vernal gull]

Just spammin boozle-spin with an unhealthy amount of ehp is more than enough x)

[raven harbor]

it's far from optimal but yeah it gets the job done

you do quite a bit more damage if you maintain awareness and plan ahead a few seconds

[unborn musk]

The tricksters have taken over the Rift thread

[vernal gull]

Still gets me ~300k with inferno on ~70k ehp, i'd say it's more than good enough

[raven harbor]

mostly because most targets are stationary harmless things like dummies

[raven harbor]

I do slightly more but with only 59k EHP iirc
getting the average measurement is awkward on Trickster and I haven't done a wynntils 10s average test in a bit

[void lake]

why does modern rw have access to manastorm in the first place? It was good for pre-2.1 rw, but it just gives free sustain on an archetype that already has cost reductions

[raven harbor]

people bring this up fairly often
it's mostly agreed upon I think?

[vernal gull]

I could get roughly as much with better mana sustain and better ehp if i invested in sabatons and cared to level my trick to 120

[raven harbor]

I went for Gaea-Hewn
need to update by build to 120 instead of just using Titanomachia forever lol

for my apoc fallen it makes sense but not for my acolyte or trickster any more

[vernal gull]

I'll keep titano, it's fun with inferno

[raven harbor]

nah I double suppression and have no melee damage boosts besides just titano
can't use dinferno on my trickster
part of why I need to replace it

Architect is cool but also slightly icky

[vernal gull]

I plan to titano-cannonade-firewall-sabatons and double smoulderdew-simulacrum-reverence/vestige of persistence

[raven harbor]

Archangel has the power to be cool but is far too expensive for what it would offer me to obtain and ascend

[raven harbor]

I have fsanc, gaea-hewn, double suppression, dupliblaze, dsolar necklace and otherwise am the same as you

[median halo]

the clash royale-level class balance 🥀

[wary berry]

actual "experienced" players do not use rift

[iron vigil]

what do they play

[wary berry]

aco fallen bmonk arca bolt trick

[iron vigil]

no summoner?

[wary berry]

larp

[iron vigil]

how is that larp

[iron vigil]

most of these are pretty easy

[still palm]

😭 ths jitt not real bro

[iron vigil]

maybe not on the level of summ but still hardly locked to experienced players

[proper sphinx]

Hes just ragebaiting lmao

[still inlet]

https://tenor.com/view/oz-oz-yarimasu-cute-anime-girl-heart-gif-4167331301005928913

[true coyote]

what does being experienced have to do with not playing a specifi arche

[still inlet]

but in all seriousness, i feel like kind of a hypocrite for shouting down on rw when i was perfectly fine with fallen being that type of 'good at basically everything,' pre fruma and fallen reworks.

Then again, fallen still encouraged at least some risk while rw gets its damage through ramp up, and has heal spell.

[iron vigil]

lb and summoner are the good at everything archetypes, fallen at least has some skill

[wary berry]

no i'm saying experienced players use archetypes that do more dmg

[zealous tartan]

yeah rift is busted rn, I don't think there's really too much to argue. I just hope the inevitable nerfs dont overshoot and entirely toss it into the garbage bin for another 1.5 years

[fervent drift]

As a RW merchant I’m ok with nerfs, just don’t make the nerfs too big all at once, it gets a bit jarring to get used to it again, just keep dropping down small and medium changes give us a chance to adapt

Knew in my heart this was gonna be nerfed the moment I started playing it, inevitable

[granite cargo]

fallen didnt give u infinite ws and tankiness

also doesnt have 20x20 aoe 💀

[cunning nacelle]

bruh ur smuck nerf didn't work 😭

Again, it's just the other way around, we need Rw to ve like this, and other harder classes to redeem themselves in other aspects imo

[wary berry]

so you're saying because 1 archetype is op we need to make the other 12 op aswell?
-# removed aco and pala

[cunning nacelle]

It's not op

Imo

[wary berry]

early fruma rw..

[true coyote]

ah gotcha

[cunning nacelle]

U mean pre nerf?

[wary berry]

yeah

[true coyote]

me melting gendarme caster with one time vortex

[torn flare]

i remember frozen tornado would scale multiple times with multiple enemies so it one taps the minions in wtp r1 even without stripping the res away

[wary berry]

seems balanced actually I HATE JAGAUBIS

[cunning nacelle]

Worth the previous 10years of Rw depression

[torn flare]

if they one tap me its only fair to one tap them back :3

[wary berry]

also paradox is wayyy too strong

[wary berry]

what, rw monster was a thing pre-fruma too

[cunning nacelle]

😭

U couldn't spam it

[wary berry]

okay but it had creative flight and heal

don't you say it was bad
also rift worked as a auxiliary archetype too
(winded arca, riftbender)

[cunning nacelle]

It wasn't that bad, it was just not the main archetype u could play for mage on everything

That role was taken by arcanist

[true coyote]

an archetype shouldn't be relevant only by being an auxiliary (esoecially prior to winded buff)

[cunning nacelle]

Idk, generally speaking I play Rw on trance melee, monster Rw is not worth it for me, I still outdmg them

On tcc I play halcyon lb with ult

Still do more dps and overall better performance

[iron vigil]

theyre just saying that hard classes deserve to be a little more powerful

[cunning nacelle]

I know that riptide arcanist has a decent build

[wary berry]

bmonk can rival ascendancy and fallen just fine, it just has an high skill floor and even higher ceiling

[iron vigil]

idk anything about bmonk

[tropic tendon]

ascendancy needs to get nuked again

[cunning nacelle]

Bmonk is so shit on by the game, it is supposed to be one of the best, cause how the fuck u gonna be hit midair with no midair attacks from enemies, but then again assassin >, u get punished less for spell cycle mistakes,

Ult does 0 dps

[wary berry]

ult doesn't even work afaik

zenith stances not swapping on hits

[cunning nacelle]

Idk I used bmonk to lvl up bat cave, i think u need to point at the enemy or something

I also tried to put some melee hits in it, idk if there's a connection tho

[wary berry]

how does using it in a levelling party give you solid gameplay

[cunning nacelle]

Of course I played it outside to

It did make a diff on ult tho

Worked more often

[true coyote]

not sure about being punished less for miscasting on assassin, especially on shade and acro lol

[lunar totem]

wynncraft infinite cycle of nerfs and buffs

[cunning nacelle]

I was assuming that given how easy it is to find assassins play rather than bmonk players

I'd guess better dps?

[wary berry]

bmonk is complex

[true coyote]

apologies, but that's a poor assumption to draw from lol

[wary berry]

assassin (shade mainly, which is played the most often) is "simple"

trick and acro need precise casts

[cunning nacelle]

Yea, that's the ironic part of this discussion tho

[torn flare]

erm acro has highest use rate rn actually!!

[wary berry]

roaring thunders on you

[true coyote]

what's your point?

[torn flare]

rawring thunders

[zealous tartan]

honestly as far as class balance goes I think ppl dont talk about the inherent disadvantage of warrior and assassin vs the ranged classes

[iron vigil]

they get better base res

[true coyote]

the humble air shout:

[cunning nacelle]

Ok afaik it's Charge war scream uppercut till u need to regain mana, then u do charge war scream bash, sometimes u need to cast bash twice to get back into the cycle

[zealous tartan]

it's not a very big upside lol, though every bit is nice

[cunning nacelle]

But u need to spam that really fast

[wary berry]

so we're not pressuring warscream

[true coyote]

I don't think you're very qualified to talk about bmonk, no offense lol

[iron vigil]

maybe not an upside for you, but every shaman player feels the downside

[zealous tartan]

but yeah imma be honest generally in wynn I think the melee classes really get the short end of the stick
which just adds to rift, not only does it get good damage and has heal, you also have safe range and teleport which is just the best movespell in 99% of scenarios

[cunning nacelle]

:shrug: fair

[torn flare]

usually its compensated in terms of dps as well especially on trickster shade and fallen (while bmonk and acro are compensated by mobility and paladin by support)

[granite cargo]

how so?

[lunar totem]

every single class main shilling for their specific class:\

[true coyote]

just main all of them 🔥

[zealous tartan]

I GUESS I main mage but like. rw is pretty busted rn

I acknowledge that for most intents and purposes mage might as well be the easy mode class
I mean, that's part of why I play it

[cunning nacelle]

Yea I agree

It's meant to be that

[true coyote]

mage is definitely the laidback class

[torn flare]

mage in video games in general tends to be a easy ranged class thats maybe a bit glassy tbh

[zealous tartan]

well that's a tough generalization to make, some classes make mage the hard ranged class because you have to spend 5 seconds standing still to cast a spell

[cunning nacelle]

Tho I don't get why bmonk is so hard to play since warrior is supposed to be an easy class to

[wary berry]

skillful archetype for skillful people

[true coyote]

I feel like warrior is middle ground in terms of "intended" difficulty

[torn flare]

yeah but still the theming of mage in general is still more towards the easy side of things at least from what im seeing in some random mmo games

[zealous tartan]

I mean I think every class has room for easy and hard archetypes but
in general I think bmonk is probably the hardest archetype alongside fallen which is funny since warrior is supposed to be beginner friendly

[wary berry]

fallen is not like friendly either

[zealous tartan]

and the difficulty honestly just mainly boils down to the fact that you dont have absurd range

[wary berry]

it's also one of the more punishing archetypes as well, low hp

[gleaming gate]

How is it hard bro

Macros remove like 90% of the difficulty of bmonk

[cunning nacelle]

https://tenor.com/view/rageman-gif-26473116

[true coyote]

fallen has always been either piss easy (ahem hero) or challenging (ahem gen bbath)

[wary berry]

macros aren't allowed

[zealous tartan]

like I think the power of range is a really understated thing in wynn

[wary berry]

i just do bbath with 55 cost uppercut :3

[cunning nacelle]

https://tenor.com/view/aaaaaugh-gif-26144251

[true coyote]

they probably mean single-input macros

[torn flare]

i mean you still have to keep track of cycles in your head and stuff if you wanna go generalist which is hard

[wary berry]

i guess

[zealous tartan]

like okay, try doing rymek luke on level as like fallen or bmonk vs literally any ranged class
of course that's one boss that happens to extra punish melee, but like

[cunning nacelle]

They do mitigate a bit, u're now clicking 3 buttons in a repetitive combo

[zealous tartan]

-# ok to be fair this is more of a patience check than anything. and funnily enough rymek luke also punishes tp because funny predictive aim just kills you

[torn flare]

optimal generalist bmonk full cycle is like more than 10 spells long i genuinely cant do it ngl

[cunning nacelle]

If anything no one talks about how melee classes are busted on raids

[wary berry]

ragebait

[true coyote]

we love schizo surf

[gleaming gate]

Bro it's literally just muscle memory, it's not some big skill

Only thinking required is keeping track of PScream, but even that can be muscle memoried, if you just track your average cycle count, before you have to refresh

[ionic storm]

?

[zealous tartan]

everything is easy after you do it enough

[cunning nacelle]

Fr tho, there's 3 incompatible gambits in the whole pool

[wary berry]

❌

[ionic storm]

youre acting like most of the other gambtis affect spell that much

[wary berry]

yeah

[torn flare]

compared to most other archetypes this is already really hard, like most classes are more or less cycling through the same 2 spell

[true coyote]

how does the existence of gambits make a specific playstyle busted or not lol

[cunning nacelle]

I can play it non stop

[wary berry]

it's only like leaden ingenuous outworn that really affect spells

[true coyote]

okay and?

[torn flare]

like wynn itself isnt a hard game but bmonk is probably already one of the hardest ones to master

[ionic storm]

you can also play spell fine?

[gleaming gate]

I mean, just bind your macros to 1 2 3 4 and press then in correct order

[cunning nacelle]

Hold on brb

[wary berry]

😭

[true coyote]

https://tenor.com/view/bait-cat-is-this-bait-cat-is-this-ragebait-gif-10902073105296387701

[zealous tartan]

anyway I'm just gonna step out of this, I'm not really the guy to debate on endgame balance, I just play the game casually and do a lot of leveling where I can confirm

riftwalker is honestly even more busted, the raw damage bonus from the stacks is kind of absurd

[true coyote]

bigmac is overtuned cause it can dodge 99% of gambits

[wary berry]

@true coyote this is masterclass ragebait

[wary berry]

true..

[true coyote]

indeed it is

@cunning nacelle just 0 gambit

[zealous tartan]

counterstrike is easy because all you do is move your mouse to on top of someone's head and click
league of legends is easy because all you do is rightclick and press QWER
you simplify anything down to make it "easy"

[cunning nacelle]

Spell are nerfed by 4 gambits

[wary berry]

leaden outworn ingenuous

[cunning nacelle]

Myopic

[true coyote]

HELL NAW

[wary berry]

no lmao

[cunning nacelle]

Maddening

[wary berry]

maddening yeah

[ionic storm]

bro maddening affects melee too what

[wary berry]

but like on most archetypes it's just whatever

[torn flare]

bolt - storm (bomb x n) and shield when its off
trapper - erm…
sharp - storm (bomb x n) and crep

fallen - many play styles but most are looping 2 spells
bmonk - long ass cycle
paladin - doesnt have a real cycle

lb - one spell once in a blue moon
rw - one spell once in a blue moon
arca - meteor spam with arcane transfer and snake sometimes and judra off cd

shade - spell spam shade is dash stab stab with some management
trick - probably also one of the harder ones but fundamentally just multi spin
acro - timing based but more or less repetitive

summoner - managing mainly, you can spam aura ig
rit - not a real archetype
aco - tongue tongue tongue aura

[cunning nacelle]

0

[wary berry]

what

[cunning nacelle]

Wdym affects melee

U mean hmelee?

[true coyote]

@cunning nacelle step away gang 🥀

[ionic storm]

any melee you still have to cast spells bro

[wary berry]

what melee builds do you play THAT do not use spells

[cunning nacelle]

Rw melee

[wary berry]

0 distortion

[ionic storm]

ok lets see how much damage you deal with no spells casted

[cunning nacelle]

U only need to cast meteor to fuck it up tgo

[wary berry]

what

[cunning nacelle]

200-300k 0 dist

[wary berry]

wowww!!!

[cunning nacelle]

400-600 with distortion

[torn flare]

out of all possible examples you used the worst one with maddening 😭

[wary berry]

ENORMOUS DPS!!! Spectacular!

[ionic storm]

yeah and guess what you need to do to get distortion

[wary berry]

don't tell him

[cunning nacelle]

I mean, I'm hitting from 20 blocks away

[true coyote]

@cunning nacelle do you raid at all?

[zealous tartan]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/773108055558455296/1326625946563772547/the_chart.gif

[wary berry]

scary spells...

[cunning nacelle]

That's base btw,

[ionic storm]

LMAOOOOO

[zealous tartan]

perish

[wary berry]

yeah i'm stealing this

[zealous tartan]

-# bro it's not even fucking close

[iron vigil]

its literally what i immediately thought of

[zealous tartan]

your brain requires some greasing

[iron vigil]

probably

[cunning nacelle]

Lb does less

[wary berry]

what

[cunning nacelle]

With maddening

[true coyote]

@wary berry disengage gng 😭

[cunning nacelle]

Halcyon lb mind you

[ionic storm]

abstractragebait

[zealous tartan]

-# I'm probably using the wrong word
-# I dont mean greasing as in like, grease, a substance
-# I mean it as in like. you can fold paper and it leaves a grease? I think it's called a grease at least. like I'm saying the brain requires more folds to have more space for neurons

[wary berry]

ragebait is my life fuel

[true coyote]

insane

[ionic storm]

crease?

[zealous tartan]

ah, yeah, right. duh

fake paper mario fan over here

[gleaming gate]

Have you played bmonk yourself anime pfp

[iron vigil]

crease

i believe

[zealous tartan]

holy moly we're immediately resorting to calling people pedos huh, I can tell immediately there is no discussion to be had

[gleaming gate]

🥀

[zealous tartan]

anyway back on topic, riftwalker is busted but please nerf it gently instead of curbstomping it into the ground and then leaving it there in agony for 2 years 🙏

[gleaming gate]

Bro has 0 arguements so he dipped

[zealous tartan]

bros argument was calling me a pedo

[gleaming gate]

Cry about it

[zealous tartan]

maybe I will, throwing terms like that around isnt a great thing for multiple reasons

[gleaming gate]

You have never mastered a skill in your life, therefore everything to you is difficult

[ionic storm]

???

[torn flare]

im gonna be honest calling someone a pedo for ts was very much unwarranted 😭

[lunar totem]

https://tenor.com/view/wit-battle-typing-angry-mad-kys-gif-17513160

[zealous tartan]

you're getting the point on accident
everyone sucks at things first, nothing is difficult once you've done it for 100 hours

[true coyote]

https://tenor.com/view/orange-cat-gets-flung-and-explodes-orange-cat-funny-cat-meme-explodes-gif-10706110874965244466

[gleaming gate]

Doing a repetitive motion isn't some great skill brocacho

It's not painting like Monet

[wary berry]

what in bmonk cycle is repetitive

[zealous tartan]

believe it or not if you spend a lot of time doing something you become better at it, that applies to both video games and arts

anyway, I've got work in 20 minutes so I'm dipping now, have a nice day

[gleaming gate]

You don't need to spend a lot of time on BMonk
It's not acro

[wary berry]

is this abstractdeaf alt account

[ionic storm]

if bmonk is a "repetitive action" then how is acro not

[true coyote]

if you think about it, every archetype is just repeating actions

[wary berry]

nooo how could this be

[gleaming gate]

True, but bmonk is one most trivialised by fucking wynntills macros

[ionic storm]

everything in life is repeating actions actually

[zealous tartan]

bro every archetype plays by pressing wasd, shift, spacebar, leftclick and riftclick this shit too easy. make me press every button on the keyboard smh

[ionic storm]

and what isn't

[true coyote]

may I introduce you to boltslinger

[wary berry]

me when i wake up at 8am get ready for work get to work at 9am then work for 8 hours come back then sleep

truly an spell cycle of all time.

[true coyote]

raid, eat, sleep

[torn flare]

casting judra should require you to solve a differential equation to promote actual skill in wynncraft beyond clicking buttons

[true coyote]

https://tenor.com/view/frieren-judrajim-frieren-clone-frieren-vs-frieren-spell-gif-11977769379414975628

[ionic storm]

sorry bro that's still repetitive actions

[wary berry]

not if you invent a new branch of mathematics and you do a different equation every time

😋

[tawny briar]

who the hell is contributing to the 1.4% ult usage of acolyte

[cunning nacelle]

What? Didn't they teach you that on mage island?

[ionic storm]

being able to list the steps in a finite sentence would also make it a repetitive action though

[cunning nacelle]

U got scammed

[true coyote]

simply wipe a part of your memory after every spellcast so that each spellcast is a unique first-time experience

[wary berry]

[ionic storm]

notice how wiping your memory is a repetitive action

[true coyote]

https://tenor.com/view/orange-cat-gets-flung-and-explodes-orange-cat-funny-cat-meme-explodes-gif-10706110874965244466

[gleaming gate]

BMonk tree is literally either

1. You deal more damage passively (Pressure, Discomb, Harmony)

Or

2. Your spell becomes a circular AoE around you (Whirlwind, Thunderclap, Cyclone, Tempest)

If the Devs wanted to, they'd make Flying Kick into a circular AoE too.

[wary berry]

but how would it be repetitive if you never knew it happened to you before

[wary berry]

what

[ionic storm]

Bmonk tree is literally either

1. first spell
2. second spell
3. third spell
4. fourth spell

[wary berry]

no way

[wary berry]

@true coyote @torn flare in conclusion buff aco nerf bmonk

[torn flare]

nerf miner

[true coyote]

buff mini pekka

[gleaming gate]

Buff RW
It needs at least 1000k dps to be balanced

[gleaming gate]

I'm Salted's alt, can't you even read

[wary berry]

no i can't read

[gleaming gate]

Seq member

[true coyote]

whose to say salted doesn't have second alt

[wary berry]

what's wrong with being a seq member

[gleaming gate]

Seq guild

[wary berry]

yeah what's up with it

jealous?

[ionic storm]

watch out he's gonna call someone a pedophile again

[true coyote]

send this man to etkw

[gleaming gate]

I'm sorry, I don't like children

[ionic storm]

LOLLLLL

[wary berry]

how did you read the future

[gleaming gate]

You're all the same

[wary berry]

is this a tbgm captain

[true coyote]

may I introduce yall to #guild_community

[gleaming gate]

tldr pressing buttons is difficult for wynncraft players

[late mural]

Unless they’re larping in cf, then they’re “good”.

[ionic storm]

I guess chess is easy to master because all you have to do is move plastic or wooden blocks a few centimeters

[wary berry]

no yk what

[gleaming gate]

When apples equals oranges

[wary berry]

@gleaming gate if you're so good at pressing buttons can you show us you sustaining a full bmonk cycle on a housing (inf mana) with pressure scream uptime aswell

for 1 minute atleast

and you can upload an unlinked video to youtube

[ionic storm]

ok computer chess is easy to master because all you have to do is press a few buttons

[gleaming gate]

Did I say I was good at pressing buttons, bromenglar

[ionic storm]

apples enough for you?

[wary berry]

so are you just larping knowing bmonk cycles

[true coyote]

<@&268142859327242242> please deal with this thread accordingly

[gleaming gate]

You don't know them either

[ionic storm]

oh we can go on about logical fallacies all day

[iron vigil]

is there a bmonk cycle flow chart

[torn flare]

new rule for cf you have to send a video of you playing an archetype before you start talking about it

would immediately solve all issues /j

[wary berry]

remove the /j

[true coyote]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cf3os_F0css

[gleaming gate]

You're the one with the fallacies here bro
When people Google "the world if analogy was an arguement meme" the first result they get is your profile

[ripe coyote]

this is the saddest attempt at a witty insult ive ever seen 😭 😭

[torn flare]

hello this is no longer reddit in 2016

[gleaming gate]

Uhm source?
Please make a top 10 video of the saddest attempts at witty insults