yap post about the state of wynn and balancing

[whole sequoia]

Wynncraft has been around for quite a while now, and it has went through a ton of changes over the years, and as a MMORPG, it is expected for things to change and get rebalanced, but as a (now former) player with a few 100 hours over the last couple of years who has now quit, i really do feel like Wynncraft is just not as fun as it used to be. In this post i mainly wanna share my personal opinions with the game, and sort of vent my frustration with it, so take it with a grain of salt.

There's an major lack of content and goals in the endgame, with the main activities for high level players being proffing, raiding, guild wars and lootrunning.

Professions:
For newer players, professions can appear to be quite important for your character, but if you look into it for just a moment you will quickly realize that they're not relevant to anything aside from a couple quests that have prof requirements. And even if you do go through the incredibly entertaining journey of leveling your professions to max, you don't really get anything from it, aside from a somewhat decent money making method and the ability to craft certain items. To this day, professions have a pretty big lack of endgame mini quests to boost the progression, and the general time requirements to level professions is ridiculous, you are basically forced to have full gathering xp gear, and utilize profession speed and xp bombs to make meaningful progress, and god forbid you are on a gamemode where you simply can't just buy decent gathering xp gear and consumables. And speaking of prof bombs, why the hell is prof speed only 10 minutes while xp isn't?? why is nobody talking about this??? In general there's nothing special in proffing, the whole gameplay loop is the exact same, you do stuff, you level up, and you do the same stuff but now with different nodes!! Very entertaining isn't it? Also you can keep dreaming of getting into a prof bomb world if you don't have bomb bell, unless you have a homie with champion rank on speed dial.
And yes, i am aware of a supposed profession rework happening soon™.

Raiding:
Raiding nowadays is.. interesting. And i find it quite funny that in all these years the rooms have still not changed within raids, in quite literally every single raid, you basically afk through a third if not more of the entire raid, waiting for those very fun time gated rooms that everyone loves and enjoys, am i right? Why are they STILL in the game? Anyways, for some reason the borrowed AP feature is also still in the game for some reason?? Why is still allowed in raids? i have no idea! At least they removed the guild xp abuse where you can just forcefully stay at a low level and abuse the hell out of borrowed AP builds.

1/2 because character limit, thank u discord very cool

Guild Wars:
I personally never warred too much, just because i despise the gameplay. I don't have much to say other than that it's not fun.

Loot Running:
Probably the one piece of content that i am quite satisfied with, as a person who plays a bunch of roguelike games, it is quite fun. I don't have much in terms of negative feedback, aside from whatever abomination the recent monetization changes added.

Other: (and more unorganized rambling wohoo)
I really don't understand why the Wynncraft team had the need to put their store advertisements into basically every major city in the game, feels quite scummy to me. Dungeons is also another part of the game which feels like it has a lot of potential but is just a complete let down. The whole system feels and probably is extremely outdated the only changes over the years were to boss models and attacks, and a couple of rooms. Every dungeon is also extremely repetitive, having the same kinds of rooms. and objectives. I don't think i even want to mention the disaster that is the monetization "update".
I understand Wynn is a MMORPG but i hate how much they nerf abilities, items (to some extent), and the ability to mix archetypes. For a game designed to have a near endless amount of builds, ability combos, etc. They sure do love nuking the hell out of builds the moment people start using them. It's almost as if players are straight up punished for being creative and discovering new, fun builds to mess with!! There's also a bunch of other things i am not a fan of such as the elemental damage and defense system which also just feels irrelevant to gameplay and outdated as hell.

That's about it for now so thanks for slopping by

2/2

[loud igloo]

Yeah most of the raid rooms are really really bad

Its kinda sad

[west hull]

The world if there was a raid room update that added new ones and patched up existing ones

[cold thunder]

warring is great but i agree with your othe rpoints

[digital vector]

😭

[bitter shale]

dont worry fruma will revamp old builds, rework dungeons put corrupted fallen factory, do rotating raid rooms, update back end to 1.20 add housing blocks, finish all new models for mobs, rework wars, add an endgame, remove herobrine, and become a perfect mmo

[stark junco]

How strong is Herobrine rn

[bitter shale]

idk it scales with player game time

[alpine umbra]

🤯

but also truth nuke

[alpine umbra]

fruma is going to be a breath of fresh air but theres a lot of underlying issues that won't get addressed because of it

[fossil notch]

True

[proven anchor]

I understand Wynn is a MMORPG but i hate how much they nerf abilities, items (to some extent), and the ability to mix archetypes. For a game designed to have a near endless amount of builds, ability combos, etc. They sure do love nuking the hell out of builds the moment people start using them. It's almost as if players are straight up punished for being creative and discovering new, fun builds to mess with!! There's also a bunch of other things i am not a fan of such as the elemental damage and defense system which also just feels irrelevant to gameplay and outdated as hell.

This part is so true and the devs are literally pushing away so many dedicated players with constant over the top nerfs. They claim its for the health of the game but honestly it just feels like they’re pursuing their own vision instead of wanting the best for the players. Stop acting like you’re writing a story, wynncraft is a game where player enjoyment should always be forefront. And by player I don’t mean the loud minority that screams to nerf any build they don’t play

[west hull]

SoCal mfs with a 2 square foot apartment covered in shit and torn up drywall with rodents and cockroaches living in the floorboards but at least he got tha 5k gaming setup

[hallow halo]

"never warred too much, dont like it" ?????

[whole sequoia]

https://youtu.be/MjYPCHjGUlo got nerfed very quickly

[whole sequoia]

yes, didn't war much. not saying i never warred. just saying i did wars and did not enjoy the experience

[west hull]

Thank GOD they nerfed Resonance in a way that exclusively destroys all viability of its alternative gameplay approach and does nothing to address the bread and butter DTotem that all of the other Acolyte weapons run

[fossil notch]

Hq sniping and doing hards is fun but vlows/lows/meds r kind of brainrot

[west hull]

You see, the gimmick is that when you play Resonance identically to all of the other Aco weapons (its only viable gameplay approach), the damage numbers are slightly weighted differently in a way you can't be asked to care about!

[whole sequoia]

yeah

i should have specified, i mainly thing "low level" wars are just straight up bad

[proven anchor]

inb4 they also nuke dtotem and masks as well making aco worse than acro

[west hull]

LET'S GOOOOOOO (Shatter Reso does comparable dps to prefix BMonk)

https://tenor.com/view/address-me-gif-3314967408153193330

[night nebula]

My exact gripe. I have seen dozens, if not hundreds of ex-wynn players quit and not play for this exact reason. Was playing something else and this was random people talking about wanting to play wynn, but they cannot get back into it because builds were broken, items nerfed (looking at all the sp nerfs plaguing early 2.1), and abilities/archs reworked with little explanation besides the discord posts.

They made it too confusing and did not put enough in-game directions so the casuals left. It's really unfortunate it happened this way, it was so avoidable but the constant spam of SP tweaks and build nerfs made it near impossible for people to play with gear they spent time collecting. When your progress is halted that much biweekly, why play?

Us end-game and stacked players endure and adapt, but it is NOT the same for casuals

[fossil notch]

Monu also js hates wynncraft with every fiber of their being so thatsnnotbthebmost valid source(it is pretty trrue thoug)

[night nebula]

they are all ex-wynn players 💀

for the above reasons

[fossil notch]

Monu also lowkey has the same problem cuz they kept reworking cleric and paladin evwey patch for likenthe past year so i havent logged on 🤯

[fossil notch]

Yeah not sayinf its wrong js thst monu is biased against wynn

[night nebula]

well that's the ss i got but ive run into these conversations with other servers + irl ppl I know (who played and quit before I met them)

Pretty much the answer we get as well is "cope" which is fine for people willing to grind, but most normal people will just quit like they have

[silver pendant]

What do other MMO RPGs have that Wynn is lacking in the endgame? Maybe a Hunted update could add an interesting PVP aspect, anything else? Im not too familiar with many other MMOs

[night nebula]

PVP is somewhat of a big aspect. I think the biggest thing lacking is the raid/dungeon scene. Most MMOs keep their gameplay loop by having pretty interactive team-based dungeons/raids which gradually upgrade your gear

Think of traditional tank/dps/support roles working together with aggro and dps checks to take down harder stuff they couldn't do solo

[fossil notch]

Add souslike invssions to hunted/base gsme frfr

[night nebula]

For as much as people hate guild wars, you will see a lot of people enjoy that it's the only thing in the game currently that truly requires a team comp. I think we need more of that in raids/dungeons but thats just me

[night nebula]

and to add onto this. Usually the end-game gear loops have some sort of "enhancement" system, where the more you grind, the more times you can enhance said gear pieces, which give extremely slight stat buffs (talking like 1-2% a level)

Pretty much most MMOs will introduce a new dungeon or smth with a new way to get these enhancement materials, and then you can make your gear 1-2% stronger keeping the gameplay loop of chasing something alongside fighting team-comp based bosses

[fossil notch]

Gear tomes and aspects r alr very min maxxable we dont neednmor

[night nebula]

Yeah we do have a lot of that but I think the current aspect system is in dire need of help. Tomes are good

Aspects are fine and cool, but because of how aspects do not give you anything of value after being max (aspect scrapping soontm), it's creating an extreme power gap between people who grinded in early 2.1 vs now. It's very hard for people to get consistent parties to get aspects now, and on top of it graids are way harder and more infrequent (since they made them harder and maxxed aspect players do not want to raid for less reward)

[bitter shale]

raids being fully doable with only 2 players doesnt help either

[weak patrol]

ACFUALLY notg upper lower room fails you if you have 2

checkmate 😁

[night nebula]

This makes notg the most interactive raid gg

[alpine umbra]

I never played during the nether pvp era, but it sounds super fun even if its not balanced, a replacement could be slapped together pretty easily. maybe an option to enter the nether with keep inventory to mitigate toxicity

[bitter shale]

https://tenor.com/view/meme-sad-meme-sad-emoji-images-sad-emoji-emoji-gif-2474532052201264777

[night nebula]

thats how it used to be, keep inv

[weak patrol]

wynn lacks true team content

except warring for some reason

[alpine umbra]

wars are cool and requiring team comp is good, but wars still take almost no gameplay skill to do which is a shame

[bitter shale]

and ??? quest

[night nebula]

We need more bosses like Annie but they require team comp like guild wars

[bitter shale]

kinda

[alpine umbra]

??? is great when its not bugged

cough cough fix minecarts

[night nebula]

and by annie the fight and style, not the timed events. Think how cool raids would be if there were actual comps required like warring

[alpine umbra]

I think anni should be locked to 5 players personally

having 10 people makes it less coordinated and more forgiving

[fossil notch]

True amallee parties also lag less in my experience

[night nebula]

A lot of MMOs handle this by making the public random queues way easier, they show attacks, people can facetank, etc.

If you play with specified roles and teams (either in a guild or friends), you can play the harder version, where comps are required (they remove attack indicators, make it hit harder, aggro mechanics, etc.)

We already have this with the graid system. We just need to see bosses actually become team-compable instead of more spammy

[alpine umbra]

unfortunately only pfinder accepts me 😔

[west oar]

Underestimating profs tbh, eyo farming makes insane amounts of money

Prof grind is painful tho ngl

[whole sequoia]

i dont know how much proffing makes

if you have good gear and stuff

[whole sequoia]

i agree

i find it really dumb how every class is easily self sustainable and does not need to rely on other classes to thrive

it's like usually in mmorpgs, you have healers, tanks, support, etc. but literally any class can be any of those roles if not all of them

although that might just be me being petty

[night nebula]

You do have to remember wynn is smaller, so raids need to be designed as self-sufficent since we dont force role queues (which is good imo)

I think this needs to change tho for those guild raids where team comps could matter. Also dont just make them harder for no benefit, make it worth our time to do it in comps like that

[whole sequoia]

i would honestly enjoy raids a lot more if they took longer to clear and required a bit more teamwork but gave way higher rewards

it is what i enjoy about skyblock dungeons, even though i dont wanna reference skyblock much on wynncord

at low level, you preferably want each of the classes to make each other thrive but when you are high level and have good gear everyone can just ball on their own

[night nebula]

ye skyblock is a whole other can of worms but I agree graids were just hp cusions with slightly more loot. It would be more fun to have way more loot and way harder content. We need some legit team comps and end-game grind loops in combat to make end-game complete. Lootrunning is kinda like this but its not optimized for multiplayer team-comp fights. It acts as a good solo content but we are lacking the massive multiplayer content

[whole sequoia]

i also really like the idea of scripted/unavoidable damage

like instead of being able to just run around at mach 4 and never get hit, you constantly take a bit of damage

which would discourage the meta of literally just running glass cannon builds

i personally find it quite cheap

[weak patrol]

why do people think unavoidable damage is good game design

[whole sequoia]

idk

[weak patrol]

ngl ppl think etw is doing way more than individual player skill

[whole sequoia]

i personally enjoy it, but it depends on the player tbh

it wouldnt fit wynn too much, just wanted to throw that out

[weak patrol]

i always see people complain but your average player is not at all capable of piloting most quad element builds much less etw

[whole sequoia]

would be cool if they buffed guild raids more and made vhigh war style team comps necessary

and perhaps introduce a "role" system for guild raids where you can select a role at the start of the raid which will buff certain aspects of your build

[proven anchor]

personally I think guilds have huge wasted potential, like just updating guild wars to be more engaging, include pvp aspects, or better rewards would translate into a ton of playtime because of the nature of multiplayer

[fossil notch]

Real guild contet in 2028

[whole sequoia]

like eg you can have a "healer" role which would increase your healing efficiency/give you some new healing ability passive whatever (and others would have their healing reduces by around 80% so they can't fully self sustain

something like that, but im just yapping

[summer pivot]

I have noticed that every signle time i am most active with wynn, its always when im in an active guild. I think that a guild update of some kind would do far more than any other update in terms of player retention

[west hull]

honestly wynn is 1 warring revamp and 1 raid glowup update from having a chill endgame in my eyes

[whole sequoia]

a pvp rework would be nice but idk how they'd go about implementing it in terms of balance

[frank charm]

you don't
pvp rework would need a full breakdown of the current hunted system
you can't balance pve with pvp in mind trust me

[west hull]

we can do the funny approach and just say that player damage is reduced by like 90% against other players

[frank charm]

wynncon did it best but even then it was still janky

[whole sequoia]

i liked the pvp events we had for some time

[frank charm]

return of big mac

[whole sequoia]

the minigame

[west hull]

tbf back in 1.19 if you were having hunted sessions you could sometimes gentleman agree on things like no toxo or whatever and it was decent enough

[fossil notch]

With new abilites its onlt gunnabe even more scuffed it woukd require multiple fellas with pvp/atrree knowledge to balance a hunted atree seperately or smth would be super goofed and not worth

[west hull]

imo I wouldn't worry about trying to balance classes with hunted in mind since (outside of people using Hunted to boost xp gain) hunted players typically play it to have a little friendly competition and if someone is playing something op or cheap then they can usually agree to stop doing it

[west oar]

Someone said that they got lucky with eyo farming while with a friend and made 9stx in 40 minutes

All you need is mining 120, optimized gspeed gear and consus, loot bombs, prof bombs, a friend to help you kill the mobs, a good route, and a bit of luck!

Ya this is why people don't do profs

[whole sequoia]

yeah profs are good

[wintry gulch]

I think one more nerf will make the playerbase happy

[whole sequoia]

but you need to put in hours and hours of proffing to make it actually start paying off and that's with proper gear and bombs, etc.

[wintry gulch]

What’s the current most used archetype?

If it’s played a lot it might need a nerf guys

[whole sequoia]

honestly i dont mind item nerfs THAT much as long as it doesnt make it completely useless (eg the divzer nerf)

i hate it when they mess around with the abilities and kill cool playstyles people find

[wintry gulch]

They nerf all of the above like every other week

Makes the game unplayable

[north egret]

Most of the team is just Volunteer work. From an economical standpoint (time invested to rewards gained) it's most impactful to the game to add more content instead of reworking existing ones. That's why you get so many "new toy syndrome" things that never get touched after release

[weak patrol]

divzer lost like 10% damage including gear substitutions for more ms

[whole sequoia]

yeah exactly

[wintry gulch]

Why does arcanist mana bank thunderstorm interaction need to change every other fucking week

What’s the point

[whole sequoia]

like it's a small nerf but it's not like "this item is straight up buns and unusable" level nerf

[north egret]

Also yeah, monetization update to lootruns made mythics drop even MORE in value

[north egret]

idk at this point I just stopped using thunderstorm with arcanist tbh

[whole sequoia]

if balancing and dps metas are such an issue why not try to implement like a passive boss armor system that binding of isaac has on certain bosses

[north egret]

hard DPS cap would be great imo

[whole sequoia]

tldr the boss gets slight damage reduction based on your damage

[north egret]

"Boss cannot take more than xx% of their health per second" type thing

[wintry gulch]

Nah I think dps caps are dangerous

[whole sequoia]

dps cap would be meh

[west hull]

anti Shadestepper technology lmao get fucked

[north egret]

Why's that

[wintry gulch]

Why limit players in pushing the boundaries of their damage

[north egret]

soft DPS cap then

[wintry gulch]

In the player build based rpg

[alpine umbra]

if you are reworking something thats unfun into something that is enjoyable, that is "adding content" and definitely qualifies as a new toy

[whole sequoia]

i think boss armor would be the best mechanic for balancing bosses, and it would help the issue of abilities and items getting constantly nuked into oblivion

i am directly referencing TBOI's system for this https://bindingofisaacrebirth.fandom.com/wiki/Damage_Scaling

[alpine umbra]

the wynn team historically does give old content face-lifts, and I think that should be focused on more post fruma

[whole sequoia]

slightly nerfs high damage but if your build is hella broken you destroy the boss either way

[north egret]

in your opinion yeah

[west hull]

After seeing so many games take the spam new things approach, it does not work

[wintry gulch]

We’ve had face lifts for the past 5 years of updates we need new shit bad

Another reason why I don’t play

[north egret]

I agree. I'm not saying it's good I'm saying that's the trend I've noticed

[alpine umbra]

nobody plays forgery, if they change it to get more players ... its new content

[whole sequoia]

imo forgery should get a slight rework / there should be a new similar thing

[north egret]

It's still not "new" though. It's refurbished. Doesn't attract as many new players

[wintry gulch]

Even if they add a few gold flakes on top of old content consistently it’s still old content

[whole sequoia]

i would love a boss rush thingy for endgame players, sort of like legendary island

[alpine umbra]

well sure, but that doesnt mean old content should be abandoned if its outdated because new is "in your opinion" better

we can only attract so many new players i think Fruma is the biggest hope, but after that is fully released they should fix old content before proceeding with presumably dern

[chilly socket]

that would nerf burst dps. Spell spam would hardly be affected

I am actually looking forward to a forgery update, cuz with the current pfinder situation, i can't raid for shit. Also lootrunning is a bit too long for my comfort

[whole sequoia]

doing the whole dungeon in forgery every time is probably the most unfun part of it but that's more of a personal thing

would be nice to also have the option to automatically enter the next dungeon when doing a full forgery run

[velvet perch]

so absolutely gut archetypes that rely on burst dps like shade hmelee

got it, great balancing

[frank charm]

yap post about the state of wynn and balancing

[weak patrol]

state sanctioned yap

[west oar]

My main problem with wynn now is that proffing makes too much money and it eclipses every other activity

[weak patrol]

sounds like u should start proffing then

[topaz creek]

This game is way better than a few years ago bro

What did you find fun before in old wynn? It was just a lesser polished version of today's version imo

[night nebula]

Wynn is an mmorpg at the end of the day, it should incentivize playing in groups, guilds, world building, class building, and gear progression loops

In these aspects, Wynn today is about the same as Wynn 5 years ago, except more polished and recent changes removing playstyles, not nerfing them.

In my opinion, the content book and removal of chests outside of guild territories completely destroyed world building. Running around and exploring the map is not incentivized in any way now since the removal of loot in these areas and content book just showing you what to do.

Yes the game is more polished, but because Wynn never had a true “mmo end game” players turned to other things which have been diluted and not updated, leaving it where we are rn. Raids are in a pretty bad state, forgery 💀, LI has had glowups but still rough, guild war rework 2028, and Annie is the only real content ppl log on to play nowadays

Besides lootrunning there ain’t much to do end game atm

[fossil notch]

True no mor random full t2 or t4 chests bc they had to nuke unlvl and make every chest a cave 😰

[topaz creek]

Wdym removing playstyles?

Raids also got alot better bro

I also also argue class building has never been better

[chilly socket]

pfinder didnt :(

[night nebula]

Recent changes such as totem shatter not working with reso. Back in early 2.1 discombobulated getting nuked to the point where it is still barely usable. I don’t really care about dmg nerfs if they don’t kill a whole arch but theres been a lot of builds unusable since 2.1 release

Class building and raids feel very similar to how they were in 1.20. The only difference is a diff lootpool and somewhat cooler bosses

There’s actually less room variation now too since they removed some options

[topaz creek]

Discombobulated is a practically 500 spell raw node which is shit design it has to go

[night nebula]

This is coming from someone who never played those (I mainly play summoner so I’ve gotten good reworks and buffs), but I can see why people get annoyed when they come back to things just straight up not working

[topaz creek]

Why doesn't totem shatter work for reso anymore?

[night nebula]

I agree but I’m not saying it’s good I’m saying it’s annoying for casuals who don’t keep up with the changes. They don’t understand why their AP keeps getting unspecced and why gear pops off with sp changes on items

[night nebula]

It just doesn’t lol they removed it

I just see player count dwindling and ppl leaving because they keep breaking stuff with minimal context. Yes we see the patch notes in discord but what about the casual ppl who just log in to play

[topaz creek]

Wynn has it good compared to other games

[night nebula]

Maybe I don’t play a ton of other games but I have never felt that way in other games I’ve played lol

[topaz creek]

Sometimes stuff gets straight powercreeped

[night nebula]

Power creep is fine that’s natural progression. It’s way worse to have something and go to nothing because your gear pops off and it doesn’t work anymore

Look at how bad the rainbow sp nerfs last year broke so many builds for returning players

[topaz creek]

Usually for most old builds its a few accessories to swap out which isn't too bad

[night nebula]

Ok but thats viewing it from the angle of us. We understand class building. A lot of casuals do not and rely on other ppl for assistance.

[topaz creek]

I do agree rainbow got a harder hit

[night nebula]

Every time they reset AP or skill points on gear breaking builds, it increases the barrier of entry to get back into the game

And they did it so much and so often on 2.1 release they lost almost all new retention

That’s how we got to where we are today and they only way this stops is if they stop doing that

[topaz creek]

It does suck for the casual player but you have to bite the bullet one day ig

[night nebula]

It could have definitely been handled better but yes I agree

[topaz creek]

What would u do differently?

[night nebula]

At least in my experience in Wynn there’s the small minority of people who actually enjoy making builds and stuff, and then the majority who just copies metas or sugo or blues builds, whatever they find lol. The issue is because they kept changing things so fast with little warning (nothing in game just discord changelog) people got lost quick and felt like they lost progress, so they stepped away in droves

[topaz creek]

I was thinking that maybe more communication but then its another wall(s) of text they would have to look at

[night nebula]

I come from the camp where it’s ok to nerf things, but making things not work should be an extreme case. For atree reworks you have to pop things off, there’s not much to do

In terms of gear. I think they need to steer clear of changing sp on items. This has slowed down recently and I’m happy about it but if rainbow was so op (it was widely used but not like super meta dps), they should have tweaked stats on gear not the sp

[night nebula]

Ye but more is always better and also with the new guis from the wardrobe update it’s a good time to link the new wynncraft newsletter website in game

That way there’s notes for ppl returning, just like for example wynntils showing u when u update

[topaz creek]

I think all that rainbow had and has going for it was sp lol all of its stat lineups are kinda trash

[night nebula]

I don’t really think so besides morph stardust. I think changing it to set killed the item but was needed

A lot of rainbow items have very high stats they are just more generic giving dmg and ehp. I think hitting the ehp on items and slight dmg nerfs would have been the better move

Like stellar for example is a pretty wild stat budget for a necklace and it was buffed actually. Things like pandemonium also boost bis dmg ids and mids to cast spells, intensity fits well with rainbow too

[topaz creek]

Pande and stellar have high sp reqs and give no sp themselves so imo it is deserved

[night nebula]

Ye the only thing they touched was sp on armor and dfusion/prowess since they were outliers

[topaz creek]

Pandemonium would also be pretty sad reward for ??? Otherwise so I like how crazy it is

[night nebula]

Ye pande is cool it’s fine, I think rainbow can use a small buff but it’s ok for now. I’m not even worried about that, I just am worried about them removing ways people play or popping off gear and abilities too frivolously which makes it harder for newer people to play. Like I said I hope they add a newsletter button in game (maybe in the shop?) and just refrain from cutting ap and sp unless it’s gotta be done since those are barriers of entry for the casual logging in because they saw the new event or smth

[topaz creek]

I think the character building aspect of the game needs to be way more endorsed in the actual game bc apart from 1 early game quest I cant name of a single time the game trys to teach you how to make builds and what the purpose of everything is. If it is done then I think this problem of revisiting players not knowing how to rebuild might be solved

I said the word game too many times

[night nebula]

I agree but also I think some of it is still just things not working when ppl come back. I know for example I have an irl friend who played idol surf in 2.0 and him finding out that style is pretty obsolete and dead now made him not want to play anymore. I understand why he wouldn’t want to since that was his favorite way to play

There’s no way to appease everyone but at least in my experience, more people miss the old archetypes vs enjoy the new ones in a lot of cases. Even tho trickster got a glow up a lot of og trickster mains do no like the new version.

There’s definitely a lot of improvement that can be done and I don’t wanna go full off the rails but my main points still stand imo. player retention issues are rampant and the lack of team based endgame activities make archetypes lack identity and roles which makes it hard for retention in an mmo

[topaz creek]

Tell him to come back idol surf is real again

[night nebula]

I tried lol

Wynncraft feels like a massive single player online rpg, there’s almost no multiplayer besides 4 extremely static raids and a big portal boss 2 times a week. The rest is solo content

There’s a reason why so many ppl ask for more war like team content or multiplayer lrs. They enjoy playing together and Wynn fails at providing a team based experience

[west hull]

my dps with it fluctuates between 160k and 280k

this is outdps'd by DTotem Abso and I am sacrificing EC's vuln and half of Vengeful's uptime to play this

atp play Lightbender lmao

[topaz creek]

The other guy said they straight up removed it

[west hull]

requires slightly roundabout ways to play but it's still playable

since Shatter alone doesn't give enough blood to sustain each Reso use, you either need to apply Bleed (Haunting Memory, SStrike doesn't really cut it here) or leave the totem out for a moment

zero opportunity to activate EC, don't even try it unless you are running a team comp that would benefit more from your EC vuln than they would your entire DPS (which given how pathetically weak you are now, is not such a ridiculous compromise)

[night nebula]

The way it was played before is removed

There’s a weird way to play it now and you can’t ec like he said

[grave nova]

A lot of of items require near-perfect rolls, if they don't have it, they're unusable. Unnecessary double dip on rng on grinding.

[left yarrow]

Oops wrong reply

[misty vigil]

kinda insane borrowed ap is still here but they removed slower leveling (which makes early game even more fast than it was previously - a stark contrast to the old days)

[low leaf]

Professions give you access to powerful items you can't get without and are essential for optimizing. Being slow is intentional, so it provides a time sink and more value to crafteds. while proffing isn't very exciting, its still a chill laid back activity. killing mobs to level to then kill different mobs is not so different. The time requirements aren't thaaat bad considering the number of ways you can boost it. Also speed bombs being shorter is because they're much stronger. both bomb types individually make you level twice as fast, but speed additionally double the mats you gather (and half those you use for crafting)

[west oar]

The main problem with prof is that the optimal way to grind it isn't really accessible or known to the average player

Without all the stuff to optimise it like gxp sets and bombs, prof is legit very painful

[wraith ivy]

this sounds awful

[west oar]

More than thrice the grind of an optimised player sadly

[inner junco]

proffing does not make more money than lr / raids 😭

you can get like 2stx an hour max but that requires prof bombs and consu compared to lr where you can get that just solo playing

[sacred lichen]

Honestly its just that professions arent really inspiring in endgame. they are very hit or miss for a lot of people. the only real engaging content is lootrunning and raiding which are very seperate. lootrunning is overall good but it does get kinda boring after a while, but thats all up to personal preference. raiding just feels like an endless aspect grind.

i dont think adding pvp would help at all. I think there just needs to be more genuine full fleshed out ideas like lootrunning/raiding in wynncraft. that appeals to casual players (DUNGEON REWORK).

wynn is a very good mmorpg it just kinda lacks a lot in endgame, because yeah lootrunning/raiding feels very fleshed out but thats about it theres nothing more to do

[tame ridge]

agree

[tame ridge]

also agree

[sacred lichen]

Theres guilds and professions but im not going to lie. most people dont really care about guilds or professions so that kind of leaves two options. and yeah for a few hundred hours theyre good but theres not much sticking power to wynn endgame than that

[tame ridge]

i feel like adding some good dungeon loot, like a 1/100 drop just like other mmos would be kinda cool

[sacred lichen]

💀 not forgery .

[tame ridge]

not like that lmao

[sacred lichen]

I really dont get people being upset that stuff is being nerfed, i mean theres just PLENTLY of things to play in wynn and when something gets nerfed it isnt fully removed from the game its still very playable it just isnt meta anymore. Yes i guess you can be sad it isnt meta but the game doesnt force you to play meta, it is inherently very casual

[tame ridge]

didnt they kind of kill asssasin?

[sacred lichen]

no not really?

you just cant be invincible anymore and people how to build for ehp now

or play better

[tame ridge]

isnt an assasins task kinda being invincible till he strikes first

[sacred lichen]

i mean the assassins task is to be INVISIBLE. and strike first

not invincible. 💀

so yea youre gonna get punished if you get hit

when no enemy is targetting you

Wynn community has a tendency to just genuinely overreact on changes and cry about it

and then it starts this bandwagon effect where everyone starts doing it

[tame ridge]

i mean true if everything gets nerfed its not really a nerf anymore more so a balance change

[hearty temple]

i feel like a lot of ppl are biased from experiencing the vanish changes in nol boss which lets be real is obv gonna generate the absolute worst results with the amount of random tick damage

[tame ridge]

i just miss cheesing the tna boss in like 15 seconds

[hearty temple]

if u run it in tna or tcc ur still gonna do it hitless

its just u cant ignore tcc swipe and tna watched anymore

[sacred lichen]

🤯 i have to actually move now!!!

[rough path]

how do you find this dude

[rough path]

mfw aspects

[night nebula]

Aspects are a very flawed system. The buffs and ideas are cool but the execution is terrible

[rough path]

the easiest anni I ever did was a 2 player

[rough path]

tier system: items that rule the meta are put into ubers and we all just play OU

[rough path]

only issue is when you have aspect maxed, which sucks tbf, but that can be fixed

[night nebula]

How do you fix it

Adding more aspects in current form and adding scrapping only are bandaid fixes. Making more levels to existing aspects is the same issue. I don’t think there’s a proper way to “fix” aspects without a near complete overhaul of the system

[hearty temple]

aspect sacrifices or scrapping or something would already help, at the bare minimum if u dont have a full rework ready just apply the bandaid fix to not waste people's time

the amount of time you waste trying to level up the last few aspects becuase 99% of the ones u get are duplicates is ridiculous

[night nebula]

I disagree I don’t have that many raids and I have every aspect that I use max and pretty much all of them max or at least very close. It’s a bandaid fix sure but for like a small group of people that will last a few weeks or months at most

[misty vigil]

it's a required part of improving raids, especially with how many bloated aspects there are

[hearty temple]

it always comes back to ppl who raid a lot not being the target audience so this problem doesnt concern them at all or something

[orchid delta]

Make it so I only get aspects for the class i'm playing

or atleast a toggleable option

So that it doesn't hurt alts and still helps players get "Suited up" quickly enough if they want to

[night nebula]

Ye and that’s ok, but aspects is just one of the issues. People are leaving in droves because there is 0 end game team content outside of guild wars. That’s literally the entirety of the mmorpg genre. The whole point of classes and archetypes is to mash up together and overcome things you can’t solo. With how Wynn is designed this never happens except for a dps/ehp check in guild HQs.

If Fruma adds raids or bosses that require real team comps, or at least some sort of coordination (maybe multiple players need to position in ways to kite bosses or flank them) then these people would be back

[hearty temple]

thats where my doubts lie, id like CT to be willing to add difficult endgame content

if fruma launches with endgame content similar to what we have rn it will become boring fast unless theres some huge grind to justify it

[lilac lagoon]

dungeons suck balls

[loud igloo]

Or just fix the game 🗣️🗣️🔥🔥

[north egret]

Well now I know what I'm doing for today

[lilac lagoon]

dungeons or sucking balls

[stark junco]

Wouldn't a DPS cap hurt hmelee builds or builds that deal one heavy hit

[loud igloo]

Good repeatable endgame content

[loud igloo]

Dps cap is stupid as shit anyways just running away from the problem

[silver pendant]

🤯

[loud igloo]

Glad i could help

Great revelation i know thank me later

[lilac lagoon]

post 2.1.3 lootrunning was fun for like a week after discovering mission combos for shiny hunting but there is legit 0 replayability and every lootrun enthusiast i know is fully burnt out from it

[stark junco]

Endless Mode

Until the hp reaches 2,147,483,647

[wraith ivy]

after challenge 100, hp scaling increases per round
this goes up further at 150 (2x scaling), 200 (5x scaling), 250 (10x scaling), 350 (20x scaling), 500 (50x scaling)

[silver pendant]

the problem with exponential scaling is it would also need exponential rewards, otherwise it'd effectively not exist cause you'd never be incentivized to fight through it

and i dont rlly wanna add exponential rewards

[wraith ivy]

Any source of time generation would also go down (to 25% of normal)
You get an additional mission every 100 challenges
You get an additional trial every 200 challenges

or something like that

[west hull]

do those lootruns with comically strong boons still exist?

[alpine umbra]

add a draft gamemode 🙏

[low leaf]

no necessarily

you don't need really need incentive to do stuff, some people would enjoy the challenge

and you can have cosmetic rewards

like a collectible, a leaderboard

[silver pendant]

well maybe, but i was thinking if we included it as a proper part of lootrunning

[low leaf]

yeah i mean adding difficult endgame content in general

[silver pendant]

maybe a leaderboard could make it work

[whole sequoia]

i like content that gets exponentially more difficult even if it doesnt have any rewards

[low leaf]

i don't think it should necessarily be added into lootrunning

[whole sequoia]

especially if it comes with things like leaderboards, so people can compete for whoever gets the furthest

it is what keeps people around in games like megabonk

[silver pendant]

im not satisfied enough with lootruns to expect people to enjoy playing it without rewards tbh, its still got a lot of issues

not that we ever would make it give no rewards obv lol, but if we did do like a cosmetic "post-game" part, currently i think it'd just be infinite spell spam simulator with scaling boons

iirc someone did like a 1000 challenge run back before the 100 chal cap, and thats all it was. im p sure they just ended it after like 10 hours cause they didnt wanna keep going

[whole sequoia]

how about some sort of a boss rush type thingy?

telos did this and it was hella fun https://youtu.be/c3kQt4C6oWc

[silver pendant]

i love bosses, yeah. maybe if LI had a leaderboard more ppl would do it? (and better bosses)

[whole sequoia]

LI is fun but there is not much of a point in doing it

and also the wybel boss sucks lowkey

[silver pendant]

well it gives some pretty decent accessories + the vanity stuff for tryhards

[whole sequoia]

yeah

and when you get said accessories, why would you ever do LI again?

aside from carrying your teammates through

[silver pendant]

the leaderboard?

[whole sequoia]

what leaderboard

[silver pendant]

the one i mentioned adding, that i thought we were talking about

[whole sequoia]

im talking about current LI

should have clarified

[silver pendant]

idt theres much to say abt it, it wasnt even mentioned in OP cause i dont think it rlly be considered an "endgame activity" like raids and lr

[alpine umbra]

I wanma see a boss fight with all 4 raid bosses at once

and a vhigh in the middle of the arena

[stark junco]

What? You mean you don’t find the Inconceivably Deranged Paper Mask of Legendary Victory the grandiose achievement in the entire game?

[alpine umbra]

I dont think infinite lootruns is whats needed tbh

[stark junco]

Ah so Final Fantasy 14 Ultima

He basically summons 3 other bosses you fight before.

[low leaf]

thats not obtainable right?

[stark junco]

Idk, it’s just smth I found on WynnAtlaa

[low leaf]

i'm pretty sure it doesn't exist in game

highest tier is Outlandish Replica Face Mask of Legendary Victory

[night nebula]

This is 100% true. LI has a lot of potential for becoming a real end-game activity. It's currently way better than what is was on release but there's work to be done.

I think we need more concepts like Annie, but in repeatable, end-game content. MMOs traditionally have quests and stuff up to the end game, but once you finish them all and hit max level, the real grind loop is dungeons/raids with teams. Solo play is pretty much nonexistant in most MMOs past this point, which is where Wynn is very unique.

I think we have enough solo content at this point, to make wynn really feel like it has an endgame, we need challenges that require parties to complete. I'm not saying everything needs to be instanced/teams moving forward, but other MMOs and games like MMOs flourish with good endgame multiplayer content. I think this is why people keep begging for multiplayer lr just because they itch to play with friends, and there's nothing else endgame to do besides 4 raids and a weekly boss

World events are a great example of this, it's a very cool concept and love the unique rewards and loot, but because they are designed to be single player friendly, they end up just being glorified slay challenges in lr. Imagine we had more world events we could do all the time, but they actually made sense to queue with others and coordinate mid-fight.

I think another issue wynn has is it's very outdated objective system. I think it's time we move on from the random obj of doing profs or opening chests, and make them content themed. Most MMOs do this to keep content fresh, and incentivize running varied content. Weekly objectives that were assigned to all players would make so much more sense (examples including: Run a certain raid, clear a certain dungeon, fight so many world bosses, etc.) This would keep updated team/unique content more fresh and give another reason for completioninst/minmaxers to mix up the content they play

[orchid delta]

I would dig "Invasions" world event in which you queue 5-10 players at randoms and push back waves of ennemies attacking an instanced city gate

could be done to Ragni, Detlas, Almuj, Nesaak, Selchar (from the sea) etc...

Rewards could be raid-type of rewards, with like a few aspects etc... could be a way to expand on the raid system

[whole sequoia]

.

[winged flower]

That would be horrible

[broken thistle]

Cherry bombs was made public despite being in the game for like 2 years, then just 2 months after being popularized it became completely unusable and that was still when laby ran free, well more like sat free, cause all laby users did was go afk and watch brainrot tiktoks while outdpsing everyone and being somewhat tanky all at once, some even afk macroing to brainrot scroll more.

They killed a entire playstyle that was pretty glassy even considering clones and one of the two builds being ETWA instead of just ETW. But let the EF build outdps everything else while the person playing it went out to eat dinner and still winning....... Like yeah ok, very reasonable change.

And they still do this with other stuff too, like literally why

When 2.0 came out a HUGE selling point from CT was "the AP tree is extremely customizable!" But then ever since like 2.0.3 (lr update) they started locking as many nodes as possible bc we cant let players have fun unique playstyles. There must only be one way to play each tree! 😊

(and then despite the game going this direction they still let stuff like ritualist rot in the deep dark dephs wondering when just a single soul will lay hands on its archetype, and not just take a mask or two for free stats.)

Dont get me wrong i love wynn and i highly doubt ill ever fully quit it (atleast not for a few years) but this is so extremely anti-player/community its absurd. And most of these changes barely even affect me personally, but it still sucks for me that one of my favorite games ever has a "dev team" (ct, etc) that just... Ruins anything fun because its not THEIR vision

[north egret]

It is an unfortunate feeling yeah. I think so far it's just been trying to even the playing field in terms of damage output

[broken thistle]

My cbomb example is great on why "even the damage" is stupid of ct.

Without rage or perfect execution, the cbomb grim build I used (etwa) got around 800k dps iirc. And I needed to cycle real damn well or I'd immediately run out of mana and be dead weight for like 30 seconds. (Not counting elder buffs in tcc)

Most raid bosses could also 1-3 shot me, even with full clones up.

And the build was almost not reliably playable without macros, and I dont like macros, but cbomb was really fun. One of the most fun assassin playstyles ever. So I did it anyways (still had to do some manual cause my mouse lacks extra buttons)

Now 800k dps is a ton for sure. But not really when laby did what, like 450k or more and the person playing it didnt even need any sort of mana sustain, infact they didnt even need to be on their computer and a lot of laby players did illegal macros (i found soooo many laby people in notg's who on the exact same timing cast the same spells EVERY time in every room other than buff/tutorials lmfao) and laby wasnt massarcerd into the ground until very recently. But cbomb was shot dead in a forgotten ditch the moment they realised it had a playstyle. Assassin isnt allowed to be fun i guess

[north egret]

They both eventually got nerfed, me-thinks it's a case of dev time and availability? :/

[broken thistle]

Yeah but laby had no playstle and unreasonably op for way too long, but the weapon that never serves any purpose since 1.17 (grimtrap) had its use removed immediately and even then it was still out damaged by a fabled

[night nebula]

tbh ye it's not even about the dmg nerfs, im sick and tired of playstyle removal and I think a lot of people have that same feeling

[alpine umbra]

every weapon has a playstyle

[broken thistle]

They could have let it remain atleast until trick rework but lowered cbomb numbers. Same with trapstacking, now that was bug abusing for sure, but people found kt really fun as a playstyle and they 100% could have made it a major id but nope, remove that shiiiiit

[broken thistle]

Yeah gaia is a melee wand that does 100k dps i agree

[alpine umbra]

ok but yea i never understood how they want to balance the game yet keep nerfing the same shit and not touching the actually broken /neg weapons

[north egret]

Mage has zero melee integration so that makes sense

[night nebula]

ppl arent mad about weapon playstyles, they are mad at atree nerfs/LOCKS making some playstyles literally impossible

cbomb is a good example of that

[alpine umbra]

I was only responding to "laby had no playstyle"

[night nebula]

my b

[broken thistle]

Im a game dev and sure its not even close to the scale of wynn but it does give me insights on balancing and let me tell you, they are bad at it (in a lot of scenarios, sometimes its good.)

You dont need to make something completely shit and then leave something else absurdly overpowered, that aint balance

[alpine umbra]

the most egregious instance recently was the strati change

[broken thistle]

A lot of recent changes are also just why. They nerfed low level mythics cause level scaling except they removed level scaling so why are they still nerfed

[alpine umbra]

its hard to have faith in IMs rn

[loud igloo]

Nerfing something cause it does 500k+ dps then adding something new that does 500k dps+ 😎

[broken thistle]

My favorite change

[night nebula]

obv the 1 ms was too op so we must change rolls on old items to make it fall in line of stat budget 🤡

[loud igloo]

What are half these items vro

[misty vigil]

this is so extremely true...

[alpine umbra]

#984944802799972362 message

if you want the reasoning

[loud igloo]

Was anybody even using this tho

[alpine umbra]

no lol

[loud igloo]

Maybe people were idk i never heard of the item before

[night nebula]

probably the IM who made it and thats it

[broken thistle]

Yeah i know but theres a lot of cases like this one (and nerfs on like level 14 items for some reason) that are just, literally why, like why are you wasting time on literally nothing

[loud igloo]

Preemptive nerf because it was gonna become op in 45 days trust

[alpine umbra]

fruma in 45 days

[loud igloo]

Honestly tho to the credit of the ims they have made a lot of early-midgame items a lot better

I have noticed

[broken thistle]

Also unfortunately I must say as a wynn unc that this has been the case since always, like even since 1.16. but ever since mid 2.0 but ESPESCIALLY 2.1, it has gotten so bad, It doesnt feel like wynn cares about its actual players these days.

[alpine umbra]

like its been years and like 30% of mythics are still really bad, no idea why they haven't been updated at least a little bit

[loud igloo]

Especially merchant gear

[broken thistle]

Dw they will give Archangel a Wind Prison major id next patch

[misty vigil]

it feels like wynn is in it's growing pains right now with no clear vision and is the reason so many people have quit recently

[loud igloo]

Give every bad mythic powder special major ids

Simple fix

[alpine umbra]

if another mythic gets a powder mID im gonna crash out

[broken thistle]

Also i was told by IMs they werent allowed to put +Madness anywhere in the game whatsoever, its meant to be pande exclusive....... And then they add it to tna as a rare buff. Like ok we just lying now

[loud igloo]

You aint rocking with the op singu and gaia major ids 🔥🔥🔥

[alpine umbra]

could've been so much more

now they will likely be perma mid

[loud igloo]

Singus is so buns

[broken thistle]

Its gonna be another wand i bet

[loud igloo]

Unironically could just take the black hole from garwick and add it to singu 😭😭

[alpine umbra]

just give Oly lightweight please ive been begging

[loud igloo]

The model exists already

[broken thistle]

I genuinely dont care about endgame wynn anymore. I've become a early game chud

And challenge mode chud

Because endgame is just so fucking cooked and no one on ct cares about it lol

[alpine umbra]

dude they already had the perfect mID for Singu

and they gave it to Pure??

[broken thistle]

Real asf twin

[loud igloo]

True but the black hole has potential

[broken thistle]

Bc Entropy shouldnt be on a low lv mythic clearly!

[alpine umbra]

same I just do gamemodes but I already completed all content (except profs)

[loud igloo]

New at got it trust

[frank charm]

Holy yap convo
Just gonna point out diversity for builds in end game has never been better in comparison to years ago when there was way less freedom and creativity so i dont think its fair to say endgame is cooked lol

Lest we forget rainbow spam

[loud igloo]

Its still cooked its just slightly less cooked than before

[alpine umbra]

sure but that doesnt refute the fact that we are losing options and endgame has had the same issues for a long time

[frank charm]

Fair enough! I just think its good to point this out among all the doom n gloom i see regarding this topic

[broken thistle]

Main class: 1133
Ult Ironman: 1133
HUIC: In progress

Now also started a rags to riches class and im just trade flipping on my alt and im lv18 with 39le. Uhh this is legit more fun than coping with IMs giving the worst imaginable major ids to mythic wands instead of just putting it on armor like they should have

[frank charm]

What options

[alpine umbra]

bloodshatter

[frank charm]

Ok thats not item related per say

Minus reso nerf it was too much

At stuff islike a whole other can of worms i can agree its kinda bad

[alpine umbra]

im not only referring to items, but items also have issues

[frank charm]

Mmh

[alpine umbra]

theres still a lot of dead mythics

[broken thistle]

Uh no not at all

[alpine umbra]

im suprised they arent a priority

[frank charm]

Please elaborate then

[broken thistle]

Pre 2.0 was the goat where almost all mythics were real good

[misty vigil]

it's diverse... for a few weeks until they nerf the cool builds

[frank charm]

Define dead

[loud igloo]

I mean i havent had an issue with item nerfs per say i just think item balancing in early to midgame is like leagues better than endgame

[frank charm]

If a meta forms it will take prio btur minus the low level weapons you can still use most mythics for content at an ok rate

[loud igloo]

Also theres the ability tree but thats a whole can of worms

[frank charm]

The humble legendary to fableds with cool ids:

[frank charm]

Ill take this at face value lol never played early game in literal years since i have 14x 106 classes

[broken thistle]

Ok anyway endgame sucks rn please fix kt with fruma and also please actually listen to the colmunity instead of only making self based decisions thanks now im sleeping bc kts 6:20am and i have shit to do when i wake up in 3 hours FUCK

[frank charm]

Your probably right

[misty vigil]

😭

[frank charm]

You say diverse then only say mythics like

[alpine umbra]

fanta, toxo, gaia, trance, ingis, strati, ashock, Az, arch

[frank charm]

What do you want me to say

[alpine umbra]

pz nerfs too but its still usable

[loud igloo]

Toxo is also just a poison issue tbf

[loud igloo]

Mortar 💔😢

[alpine umbra]

plenty of ways to fix it without reworking poison

[loud igloo]

Yeah but that involves like making it not fully a poison weapon and idk if they want to do that

I think they should just add a new earth mythic lol

[alpine umbra]

erm ashock is right there

[loud igloo]

Its a low lvl

[frank charm]

Fanta and toxo are very fair yeah
Id argue gaia has a niche even if melee mage support sucks its fun (at least in hunted)
Trance had its moment from busted ass MID but rift is holding it back + meta rn
Ignis just needs the inferno treatment ngl its identity makes no sense anymore
Stratis ws just doesnt matter with bolt innate ws :(
ashock az and arch are all great at level but i wouldn’t expect them to be great past that

[loud igloo]

Ashock resurgance after ritu rework in 2029

[alpine umbra]

so in your opinion, what is needed to push these weapons into viability

[frank charm]

I mentioned it in some of them minus like toxo and fanta

[alpine umbra]

those are tied to archetype reworks though

[frank charm]

Im no im but half of the reasons are due to like at shit like trance or strati

[misty vigil]

honestly just oil them up and throw them against the wall and see what's still up there in a few months

[frank charm]

🤨

What did you mean by this

[misty vigil]

see what sticks

[frank charm]

Did you mean glue

Oil makes it slippery

[alpine umbra]

relying on AT to fix these issues is really discouraging considering how long it takes for these kind of changes

[loud igloo]

Tbf trance and gaia really need that rift rework

[alpine umbra]

trance mid needs to be obliterated

[frank charm]

I mean theres so much item stat changes you can do when a MID or some important stat are tied to/competing with AT

[loud igloo]

I think oher weapons like freedom and fanta really need something tho

[frank charm]

Kinda just the sad reality esp if like at/im teams have communication issues
Reso time span + overnerf kinda being an example (also with aco blood gen issues esp dtotem reliance)

[loud igloo]

At and ims need to be less of a seperate identity

[misty vigil]

IM's lowkenuinely need to lock in

[loud igloo]

Also mob designers

[frank charm]

For like mob stats?

[loud igloo]

Mob designers after making a mob just for it to get nuked in 4 seconds

[frank charm]

Ok half of that is like elemental defenses being additive ngl

[misty vigil]

health just doesn't scale well

[frank charm]

Just the whole system

[loud igloo]

Like i mean i feel like its gotta be frustrating for them having to balance mobs with whatever the fuck is going on

[misty vigil]

also quest bosses are like always a joke

[frank charm]

Yeah player power is an issue

[loud igloo]

Well idrk how it works and how much their word goes into balancing

[frank charm]

At least the top and the bottom are too far apart

Big extremes

[loud igloo]

Yeah

[frank charm]

But thats my hot take tm since ik people dont like being nerfed

But im also a person who runs what they like and preforms to my lower standards

[loud igloo]

I think the main issue is that something gets nerfed and another thing gets buffed to be overtuned

So they invest in that and the cycle continues which leads to the frustration

[frank charm]

And on the other end of the spectrum some archerypes barely do good dmg at full etw much less any ehp its pitiful

[frank charm]

Mmh

[loud igloo]

Also some people just like killing shit fast which is fair

[frank charm]

Very but give them an inch they take a mile

As fun as it is to like

[loud igloo]

But like i understand thats probably not the direcrion they want to go

[frank charm]

Discover shit like that its fun

[north egret]

Wait what happened to strati I'm out of the loop on that one

[frank charm]

Just isn’t healthy long term esp if its left alone then nerfed months later

[loud igloo]

I do agree but idrk

My main concern is that fruma is not balanced around the meta rn

And every boss will get wiped in 45 seconds

I really hope that doesnt happen

[frank charm]

Ws doesnt matter when you just need stormy + frenzy

[alpine umbra]

added main attack air damage raw

[frank charm]

I have been around for enough update cycles is rhat when new stuff comes out people switch to tankier setups to get the hang of it and slowly it shifts to glassier builds

Altho the playerbase skill ceiling and preference for glass has gone up quite a bit in comparison to 1.20 so it could play out differently

[north egret]

How does that benefit strati when it was a spell bow to begin with

[north egret]

That's normal though tbf. And some people remain on tankier setups for the comfort too

[alpine umbra]

yeah thats my point

it did nothing and fucked over existing rolls

[topaz creek]

I like this idea alot

All cities have different entrances and geography so it could be very interesting

[strong pelican]

because this was the same time that violet shift and lachesism were being added, so pure needed a different unique major

[broken thistle]

Erm or they could have given a different new mID to those items

[night nebula]

Changes like this is why players hate the current updates

(For those unaware they just made blizzard blaster not do recoil so it’s useless now)

Once again, why are we just straight up removing content

[alpine umbra]

wait what

I just bought that shit

[night nebula]

Same just got 4

No fun allowed sorry

[broken thistle]

I read that whole thread (well skimmed some of the harassment.. like bruh) and ngl I do agree with ct a bit that a trinket shouldnt be so op, atleast not if it only affects you. But they could have done what they do with team trinkets (like well) where outside of Blizzard Fest, the knockback velocity is reduced in half, and then made the cd twice as long... Instead of just making it useless lol.

I never used the blaster cause I dont care for it but its severely lame they do this, also the fact that sockmower, who not only made the minigame, but also made the item itself, voted to keep it as is and not make it useless, and then they did it anyways.. like what 😭

[night nebula]

Yeah it’s just a sad situation and further shows the disconnect. Like I said there and in general, most end game players do not even look forward to changelogs anymore. Theres a sense of dread seeing it with a new message, and seeing what got taken out back this week.

I’m all for change and if this is so important for them to remove the functionality of blizzard blaster, at least give us something as compensation. A promise for reworks later isn’t gonna cut it, and there’s been a severe lack of content since wardrobe update (which really only added glorified lr missions to do). We need some new stuff to play with before you take away the little we have

[broken thistle]

Guys maybe asking for bi-weekly changelogs was a bad idea

Maybe being patient is better

[night nebula]

They heard the complains of timely updates and then over promised and under delivered. I really do believe that the start of biweekly updates is what started plaguing the game

[broken thistle]

2.1 is the real issue

[frank charm]

Devils advocate, what compensation? I thought this change was to basically remove an op movement trinket. They felt like it was overturned and a “middle ground” might just make power creep for any future related stuff
Kinda wish tho it happened way sooner but better to rip off the band aid

[night nebula]

It was clearly not "overtuned" right now. If it's overtuned for stuff in the future, release the stuff in the future and make this change at the same time. Don't pre-emptive REMOVE (not nerf) functionality before the replacement "future stuff" exists

There was no band aid to rip off, this item being in the game did not define metas or give anyone significant competitive edges. It was just a highly useful trinket to help manuever while playing the game. These kinds of mobility items are highly expressive, allow a lot of skill ceiling to be achieved with them, and in general, people love to play with movement. Just removing things from the game that people like due to "balancing in the future" is a lame excuse I'm sorry

[frank charm]

I disagree it was a strong trinket overall

Being timelocked too really sucks if it does a lot

[west hull]

I'm so fr after raiding across the entire year I noticed 4 separate players total use Blizzard Blaster and every single one of them was a TNA Burger player using it to get between the intermission rooms 0.5s faster

[frank charm]

Lootruns

[night nebula]

What advantages does a user have with blaster compared to someone without one

[frank charm]

Mini escape

Iirc warriors mostly use it

But archer can too

[night nebula]

ok so warriors can use it to bounce a little and gain ~6 blocks of height, that's what makes it overtuned?

[west hull]

warrior can literally fly what is the deal

[night nebula]

at WORST that's like a 1 second time save per lr challenge? when warp can literally fly lmao

[west hull]

BMonk nowadays is the second coming of old Acrobat lmao those mfs are at minimum 8 blocks off the ground

[night nebula]

Im not taking your reasons to why blaster is op, if you can show me some real case to why someone with a blaster has an unfair advantage in the PvE game then it would make since to REMOVE the feature

[west hull]

maybe if the trinket was on par with actual mobility skills instead of being a handy qol at best I would understand the opinion that it's strong

[night nebula]

Also to his point, the game has been through tons of balancing and it's been very known that warriors use this item since last year. They could have changed it then but they didn't. People all over wynncord talk about using it in idol lr and whatnot, you cannot use the excuse that it's usage was unknown.

With this, warrior has recieved multiple balance changes in the past year as well, I would assume that these changes were made with blaster in mind, and blaster was made to be a universal trinket. Assuming the game is "as balanced as it can be" in the current moment, removing this should have come with some changes, which Salted and other CT have said that this is for future movement balancing.

Totally fair, but then why remove shit early before the rework/replacement is ready

There is also other trinkets from the same festival rn that do the same thing as blizzard blaster, are those gonna get nerfed too? Like where do we draw the line. At this point I will never buy another trinket from festivals again because it's not worth my time to grind for shit thats gonna become cosmetic because someone saw it in their vision

[frank charm]

Compared to most other trinkets with a low cd free vertical mobility its top 3
It used to not have the 2 shor limit too used to be infinite
Not necessaryily trying to agree but if they think it was out of line then its fair for them to change it. 1 year though after the fact is a bit weird but again, might as well do it when its in rotation

Ill be real im thinking half the reason ppl are upset with the nerf is because they had financial stakes given they used to sell for 1-2stx per depending on season

And ppl were stocking up this year

[night nebula]

Being a top 3 trinket does not make it overtuned. trinkets are barely even op, you only use them for fun/gimmicky stuff or minmaxxing war/raid stuff like mana well.

I don't think that, I think more people are mad that they can't use the item they enjoyed anymore

[frank charm]

Yeah and they thought blaster wasnt gimmicky?

[frank charm]

You havent seen the trade market then, it was popular

[night nebula]

I've sold some and given some to people. There's probably a small minority upset financially

[jagged osprey]

coughcoughpuppetbomb

[night nebula]

but there is more people mad about losing utility over that

[frank charm]

Again i only said this because thr market was popular (i grind all minigames)

[frank charm]

It is utility but it was probably too strong and leaving it for longer just creates more demand for stronger trinkets or something

I gtg but i was never a blaster user since i never really needed it outside of hunted (which is dead) but i think it isnt super crazy why it was nerfed/vanity now

[night nebula]

If they wanna nerf fine but if it's in vain of "future balancing" wait until then, it isn't rocket science. It wasn't nerfed because it was an OP trinket, it was removed because of movement potential.

Mana well is WAY more op, and tales is also very solid, and those didn't dodge nerfs. Auras are also ever stronger gving speed vanilla effects to classes without it, those are ok but a recoil gun isn't 🤡

Just overall terrible takes and community response prove the point that the majority of ppl upset are because they enjoy using it, and once again changes to the game in sake of "future balance" should be held off until said changes show up so people aren't stuck in purgatory without the "future movement balancing" and current tools

[jagged osprey]

they basically just took away the wheelchair from the poor crippled puppet bomber because its a movement crutch, meanwhile cars are driving 70mph right beside

[alpine umbra]

erm but pbomber is SUPPOSED to be immobile

[jagged osprey]

🤯

[night nebula]

I think this screenshot kinda conveys how a lot of ppl feel about changes and balancing rn

[jagged osprey]

imho from playing it alot, it isnt the super OP movement item anyone thinks it is, its just a little item to kinda help you keep up with others

like even for maze room you need to actually aim and land the jump across the gap

it just allows you to start your totem throw from a couple blocks up

every other build can just fly over to it

[night nebula]

also, how is that even "op" your'e keeping up with your team in a PvE raid environment

[jagged osprey]

because wynncraft releases patches with the frequency and intentions that a pvp game does

[night nebula]

for no reason 🤷‍♂️

[jagged osprey]

I miss when we had cool tech and bugs everywhere that just stayed around and were just kinda accepted as game mechanics

granted we still do have some, mainly the gatekept stuff

[night nebula]

Yeah its such a shame the way they have went, they have lost so much trust idk if they will get it back

[west hull]

what do yall know about ||made you look||?

[sacred lichen]

ok to be perfectly frank blizzard blaster was an extremely cheap mobility trinket for what you got. having something being so broken be a limited time (festival) item is just a bad idea. yeah you lose the mobility but i think its genuinely good for the game as a whole. and I dont think there should be a replacement honestly

major id is the only kind of cool way that they can do but people will be pissed nevertheless like. blizzard blaster should not have existed in the first place

[night nebula]

Good for cheap I can agree but where is it broken? No one can answer why it’s broken except for “it’s a mini escape” which is not a valid argument

Archers have a better escape in their kit, and pretty much every class has a better movement option than this. Plus swapping off weapons to a trinket is a huge loss of a lot of cooldowns, powder specials, and more. How is this item detrimental to game design, I just don’t understand

Like what was blizzard blaster abusing so bad that we had to flat out remove it from the game

[sacred lichen]

archer escape is baked into archer. you cant use it on any class. also how is it a loss of cooldown to switch to an offhand trinket. 💀 and 2s cooldown on an item that provides you a mini baked in mobility spell in a class?? thats a seasonal item is just plainly extremely busted since you could use it pretty much everywhere at no cost except a hotbar slot

[sacred lichen]

yes!! if it was up to me id put a 45 second cooldown on it when festival isnt happening but yeah it was the most broken trinket in the game flat out

[night nebula]

You didn’t answer that. I asked what was it abusing not if it is abusive. Also for the cooldowns, swapping off your weapon or switching weapons on multiple archetypes lose anything stacked up. Think orbs on lb or angels on bolt. That plus a powder charge loss since u swap off weapon to use the trinket were big drawbacks in combat. Blaster was only really used to gain some height for warrior in lootrun between combat and that’s about it. I don’t think getting a few blocks of height is op but maybe you do

[sacred lichen]

a few blocks of height is really downplaying it lol

its literally just free mobility. and yeah it was abusive to use. so what? it just applies everywhere

[night nebula]

It’s like 5-6 blocks of vertical height for warriors in lr (it’s like 7-8 but count the time falling to cast charge)

[sacred lichen]

its genuinely just bad game design to keep it in the game 😭 cause why would a seasonal item be THAT good

[night nebula]

Ok then what about all the other good trinkets that are used 10x more than blaster. Runes give perm vanilla speed and mana well gives 15mr to everyone near

Are those all bad design too. The whole point of utility trinkets are to be decent enough to use and have so you have reasons to play the seasonal modes

[sacred lichen]

blaster was just such an oppressive mobility trinket though you are downplaying the effect free mobility is and ok unironically having "trinket powercreep" would be awful im not offhanding 50 trinkets at once

[night nebula]

How do you have trinket power creep when no new trinkets are added 🥀

It’s not oppressive and you’re over exaggerating how op a recoil item is lmao. 90% of builds can already do this shit for free lol. The other 10% it’s surely a good buff for em but I don’t think we saw any op blaster raid speedrun clears did we?

[sacred lichen]

😭 why are u basing blasters ability on raid room clears 💀 ???

trinket powercreep as in i dont want to hold multiple trinkets in my hotbar it should just be my weapon and potions and thats it.

yeah "90%" of builds have it for free but this is just additional benefit that doesnt need to be in the game for a SEASONAL time gated item.

if this item wasnt a crutch why is there such a HUGE community reaction towards it

[night nebula]

I don’t think it’s a crutch I actually think the item is pretty mid. I just enjoy items that promote movement and always have. I’m upset that one of the trinkets I like to play with is just gone.

Exactly what you said, no one is using blaster anywhere where it could be causing a disadvantage to others. It’s not used in raids, it’s only ever used for gimmick movement for fun, or in lootrunning on warrior which sucks anyway (should be on mage). So if those are ruled out, where is blizzard blaster causing trinket power creep and forcing people to use it

[sacred lichen]

💀 you are doing so many generalizations this is crazy

[night nebula]

Same to you lol. You’re defending the change like every build uses blizzard blaster currently

Like I said, point me to a place where this trinket was so blatantly overpowered, and was causing it or was going to cause power creep for the entire game.

[sacred lichen]

No I think blizzard blaster was a textbook insane free mobility item compared to the rest. and there was definitely a fair sum of people using it on raids and saying people dont lootrun on warrior is insane okay? like you cant just say that stuff 😭

like cmon man

[night nebula]

Anyone good at lootrunning is not on Warrior lmao

Hate to break it to ya

And if that’s your whole reason on why it’s op, ok I’ll just do 4 charges with my idol and get the same height. It really is not anything game changing

[sacred lichen]

i literally just said people use it in raids

ok i give up

[night nebula]

I’ve seen like 2 ppl in raids using ts lmao there must be some secret tech I don’t know about huh

[sacred lichen]

yeah i guess so then lol

[west hull]

BB power creeping movement in a game where nearly every single playstyle is capable of avoiding ever touching the ground if they want to

a little farfetched

[grave nova]

Can we also talk about seeking nerf did the opposite to increase variety of guilds holding territories?

[rough path]

forgor the thread existed, but yea anything that makes the gain of these aspects not completely worthless. maybe it gives some form of aspect currency that can be exchanged for a specific aspect if you acquire x of them. like if you get 10 of a mythic aspect you already have maxed, you can exchange the 10 currency you got from it for 1 of another mythic aspect