#Flying chest mythic nerf feels really strong

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

cerulean kestrel
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I lootrun once every day or 2 and i do agree the amount of mythics that were obtainable from these chests were insanely high.
However, with the nerf it feels very unincentivized to get one from that route now.
Before the nerf i used to get around 1 mythic per ~200 chests, but after the nerf its been 1400 chests and i have yet to see a single mythic in a flying chest (I have 295% lb and 46% lq with 31% loot from charm of the stone) .
In contrast, ive seen 7 mythics from the end lootrun chest at an avg of ~500 pulls per mythic (i did reroll some so i didn't collect them all but i was offered it from them) only counting this week's lootruns. Although, most have been the corkian simulator and insulators, so i don't know if they are easier to obtain than the normal mythics.

Now (ignoring the possibility that I may be insanely unlucky on flying chests and really lucky in lr end chest) I think the flying mythic chest nerf should be toned down a bit, at least to the point where in 2 perfect lootruns you at least get 1 mythic (my perfect lootrun comprises of jester's, materialism, interest scheme, and hoarder where i open around ~450 chests at the end).

exotic vapor
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these numbers are not accurate, you were just unlucky

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it should also be noted that the end reward chest was nerfed by about the same amount as flying chests

sudden marsh
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i have no clue how to say this other than you are both lucky and unlucky at the same time and your sample size is incredibly small.

I lootrun once every day or 2 and i do agree the amount of mythics that were obtainable from these chests were insanely high.
even if we give you the benefit of the doubt and you have done 7 lrs, and all of them had decent to good missions for a yellow run, it isnt a ton of chests/boxes in the grand scheme of things to truly take your data and and make a conclusion off of it

Before the nerf i used to get around 1 mythic per ~200 chests, but after the nerf its been 1400 chests and i have yet to see a single mythic in a flying chest (I have 295% lb and 46% lq with 31% loot from charm of the stone) .
this is insanely unlucky imo (unconfirmed flying chest rates). assuming a flying chest avgs ~15 boxes per flying over a lr, and a good yellow mission lr (~300 flying chests), thats 4.5k boxes per lr. ive been told no lblq its roughly 1/10k boxes pre nerf (lmk if this feels wrong), with your lblq id say a 2 mythics/3lrs would be "normal" under these ideal conditions. if you are also tracking chal reward chests/normal chests it inflates the chest number even more. hard to give an accurate estimate because of multiple changing variables within an lr. based off of vibes because of no concrete numbers, you are still in the range of "this scenario is possible, but you are pretty unlucky". i could give my anecdotal experience of my one (1) lr post nerf where i pulled 4 mythics from flying chests and say rates need to be nerfed sm

royal raptor
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1 mythic per 200 chests feels way too lucky even for the old system

sudden marsh
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In contrast, ive seen 7 mythics from the end lootrun chest at an avg of ~500 pulls per mythic (i did reroll some so i didn't collect them all but i was offered it from them) only counting this week's lootruns. Although, most have been the corkian simulator and insulators, so i don't know if they are easier to obtain than the normal mythics.
1/500 is really lucky. iirc its roughly 1/1.5k pre nerf (again lmk if it feels wrong), as tealy said nerfed flying and end reward the same, so the discrepency is just pure variance/rng

tl;dr:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variance
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_large_numbers

Variance

In probability theory and statistics, variance is the expected value of the squared deviation from the mean of a random variable. The standard deviation (SD) is obtained as the square root of the variance. Variance is a measure of dispersion, meaning it is a measure of how far a set of numbers are spread out from their average value. It is the s...

Law of large numbers

In probability theory, the law of large numbers is a mathematical law that states that the average of the results obtained from a large number of independent random samples converges to the true value, if it exists. More formally, the law of large numbers states that given a sample of independent and identically distributed values, the sample me...

royal raptor
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tell us the number of boxes too

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and get about 100x higher sample size

cerulean kestrel
cerulean kestrel
sudden marsh
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you are unlucky and re: law of large numbers if you lr enough you will eventually reach the expected rates

cerulean kestrel
spice cobalt
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there's no reason to get mythics the old way

subtle whale
sand wolf
subtle whale
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I never understood why the odds aren't public

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nothing rly speaks against it. It would just make everything easier

sand wolf
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some ct said its so ppl would not cry bcs of their bad luck

subtle whale
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😭 I mean ig

sand wolf
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but more ppl cry bcs of not having numbers rn

subtle whale
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Also true

royal raptor
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its so that "it doesn't lose its magic"

subtle whale
royal raptor
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thats the reason (good reason btw)

sand wolf
royal raptor
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as for boxed mythics, its public that its 7 to 999999 per box, influnced by loot quality and possibly loot bonus

sand wolf
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not a single rng drop loses its magic with its chances being public

royal raptor
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I think what they nerfed now is the extra "loot quality" that was on flying chests

subtle whale
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🥀

sand wolf
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i think its not the real reason

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not the actual one at least

subtle whale
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I can see that being the reason I just don't think it's a good reason

sand wolf
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idk its just sounds to me more as an excuse than an actual reasoning

subtle whale
sand wolf
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yea for some reason life-service game devs dont want to be transparent

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like imagine having game revenue depend on player count every month and not advertising via "we heard u guys and we did what u asked for"

royal raptor
sand wolf
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well salted could use secret technique called "lying"

exotic vapor
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😐

sand wolf
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oh hi tealy

subtle whale
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🤫

subtle whale
exotic vapor
sand wolf
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i did im very evil and a awful person and i also lr a lot

subtle whale
sand wolf
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and i write with lots of grammar mistakes bcs im evil!

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yea the evil mego wants to know too

subtle whale
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(the lootrun guy)

sand wolf
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the evil lootrun guy

exotic vapor
subtle whale
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Okay thanks

sand wolf
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Well weight system also includes numbers tbf

subtle whale
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or is he only talking about the end reward chest here

sand wolf
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and i would love to try spreadsheet gaming one day

sand wolf
fleet granite
sand wolf
exotic vapor
sand wolf
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like its just saying cheese + bread sandwitch is god burger

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its only a base and u add onto it to make it an actual "god" thingy

exotic vapor
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dont think i actually said that but go ahead

sand wolf
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u said something about int scheme + jtrick being a god run

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and i think its just 100% performance and i think "god" run should be everything above 100% performance

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like adding cleansing ritual to it to make u only go for chests

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or complete chaos to just get more rewards

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thats what i think is a god run

exotic vapor
sand wolf
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well ig i misinterpreted that

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bcs i was only talking about 2 mission combos

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at the moment u said that

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anyway i think cgreed should be buffed at some degree

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like do u have any ideas?

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or why it should not be buffed id like to argue about missions rn

sudden marsh
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I think you want to argue a bit too much

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Or you just want making money easier which is extremely shortsighted because you are not the only one or aspect of the gamethat would be affected by a change in missions

sand wolf
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it was never about LE for me

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if u see my suggestions thru the prism of "making the game easier and lootruns more proffitable" suddently all my ideas look awful

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but i want more fun lr gameplay

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like i dont even count the economy impact bcs
1 - dmg is alr done
2 - devs can easily ajust rates to keep up with buffs (like in the latest patch)

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so i only care about making lrs better as the gamemode

sudden marsh
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Then why are you complaining about jt not being more common if it isn't for the LE

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Is jt truly a one of a kind mission that makes or breaks the lr experience for you?

royal raptor
sudden marsh
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I think I just don't have the time to reset for jt and have to settle for flying chests and ~300 pulls

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I also don't think that matters if he's saying that he wants better lr experience. You saying jt should be more common is just pigeon holing you into a 1d experience no?

sand wolf
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compare to what?

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like ofc cgred with porhy is good but this is porhpy run not chest run

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and by good i still mean its not insanely good bcs it loses in pull amount to most mission combos

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without even being good in its own way

exotic vapor
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are you chest running for the chests or for pulls?

sand wolf
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for pulls

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bcs chests give u significantly less rewards

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chests themselves are just cool addition

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cherry on top

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like lrs are not made to be done with only chests in mind

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not a single trial buffs chests

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u dont have mechanics that improve ur chest loot outside of lq lb

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and lq doesnt even work properly now

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like if i do 2 hr lootrun for pulls and get nothing i at least can sacrifice

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if i do 2 hr lootrun for chests i and get nothing i just lost 2 hrs of my life

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and boxed mythics are even more rng bcs after 4 collapses u only made 2 stx

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i dont run for money but if lrs give me nothing its upsets a lot

royal raptor
sand wolf
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ye

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but mostly i go for pulls with/from chests

royal raptor
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flying chest rewards are not good enough to make me run only for flying chests, and not pulls too

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especially with current mythic prices

sand wolf
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especially with the fact that u have to wear disco

royal raptor
exotic vapor
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you get pulls from chests a lot faster than for the end chest, but you dont get stuff like sacs, rrs, shinies etc. thats part of the tradeoff between those methods

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idk why its expected to get lots of pulls as well as lots of chests

sand wolf
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i expect to do 2 hr run and get rewarded

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and chest runs do not rewards unless lucky

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this is not even adaptation

exotic vapor
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so you want guaranteed mythics?

sand wolf
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this is just rolling a dice after a checkmate to win

sand wolf
royal raptor
sand wolf
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sacs do not guarantiee mythics

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they just let u at least dont feel like u lost ur time

exotic vapor
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we're not gonna guarantee mythics, sorry

sand wolf
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are u even reading?!?!?!?

royal raptor
sand wolf
exotic vapor
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right. tell me what you mean by reward then, cause im just guessing

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If you get 1 pull you'll get an item in the end chest, thats guaranteed and thats a reward

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so what are you expecting

sand wolf
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i want to have some way to extract actual value from chests i didnt received mythics

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like tealy u the lootrun ct and u think chest runs are ok?

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like u think there is an actual reason player can choose to go full on chest run

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on pure chest run even

exotic vapor
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i think you have an inflated idea of how much rewards you should get from a run

sand wolf
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i think i spent 2 hrs with god missions and got 10le

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and nothing else

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AND IT WASNT EVEN FROM CHESTS

royal raptor
# exotic vapor If you get 1 pull you'll get an item in the end chest, thats guaranteed and that...

you run a 2 hour flying chest run, and lets say you don't get a mythic.... then, its 2 hours wasted
if you get a mythic from end reward chest, that somewhat saves it, though still 2x worse than just running short runs in combat equipment

if you run short runs, or shiny hunting long runs, if you don't get anything, you still get sacced pulls (not the best feeling for short runs, but its alright)

sacs are a thing for flying chest runs too, but if flying chest runs didn't give a decent amount of pulls per reroll, sac would worth almost nothing

sudden marsh
# sand wolf i think i spent 2 hrs with god missions and got 10le

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variance
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_large_numbers

Variance

In probability theory and statistics, variance is the expected value of the squared deviation from the mean of a random variable. The standard deviation (SD) is obtained as the square root of the variance. Variance is a measure of dispersion, meaning it is a measure of how far a set of numbers are spread out from their average value. It is the s...

Law of large numbers

In probability theory, the law of large numbers is a mathematical law that states that the average of the results obtained from a large number of independent random samples converges to the true value, if it exists. More formally, the law of large numbers states that given a sample of independent and identically distributed values, the sample me...

exotic vapor
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yeah and sometimes you do a 20m run and get a mythic

sand wolf
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like either let me scrap entire yellow chest after closing or give me reward

sand wolf
sudden marsh
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if i had a nickle for everytime ive posted wikipedia links to relatively basic concepts in statistics in this thread i would have 2 nickles, which isnt a lot, but its weird that its happened twice

royal raptor
sand wolf
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and after 10 hours spent on it salted just rolls a dice and ur mission is forgotten

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"just get lucky"

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u would never ever do a mission again

exotic vapor
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bro.

royal raptor
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not every idea gets into the game

sand wolf
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especially if u have an ALTERNATIVE WAY LIKE RIGHT NEXT TO IT

sand wolf
royal raptor
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fair

sand wolf
sand wolf
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pure gambling in its worst form

sudden marsh
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is lring not just gambling inherently

exotic vapor
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when you open a chest, theres a chance you get a mythic. Any of those items in there could be a mythic. Same thing happens when you get a pull from the end chest. However, you can open chests and get offered a lot more items from them than compared to getting pulls for the end chest

sudden marsh
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i am so lost with your logic first its not about the le but you want pulls now its gambling in its worst form because you have to do a chest run rather than an end reward run

sand wolf
royal raptor
sand wolf
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how many ppl will keep playing after 100?

royal raptor
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but I'm aware that many people just loot random boxes and ingredients regardless, mostly because they are inexperienced

sand wolf
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i bet 99% will give up after 6

exotic vapor
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i can see youve clearly given up in trying to argue in good faith so ima dip for a while

sand wolf
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like lrs are gambling but u can control it to some degree

royal raptor
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gn tealy

exotic vapor
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sorry youre not enjoying lootrunning, maybe its time to take a break

sudden marsh
sand wolf
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and chest runs are pure gambling without even actually good reward if u win

sudden marsh
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cya tealy

sand wolf
sudden marsh
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so why are you playing it if you hate losing from gambling

sand wolf
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rng is the tool

sudden marsh
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what does that mean

sand wolf
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not the fucking game yk

sudden marsh
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no i dont actually

royal raptor
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lets say a chest run didn't give a single mythic, and no extra pulls either..... flying chests don't have a pity system like sacs

sand wolf
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u basically wasted time

royal raptor
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so it feels awful not getting a single mythic from a 2 hour flying chest run

sudden marsh
royal raptor
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on top of this, looting all those 500-1000 chests takes a TON of extra time

sudden marsh
royal raptor
sand wolf
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like im not even saying its bad bcs u can be unlucky

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u basically get LESS

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and not having a pity makes it even worse

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like u can have 4 chest mission god combo but end up with 20 le without any sacs

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while 2 chest optimism combo gives u 500 pulls and most of them u can sac

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like this is just pure disadvantage

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u have to wear chestplate with no combat stats to get less

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tell me why on the earth its fair

sudden marsh
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is life fair

sand wolf
sudden marsh
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good one

sand wolf
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like i can just kill myself in this very second bcs life is unfair

sudden marsh
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to be clear i did not say that

sand wolf
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but i try to make world around me better

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u can justify anything with "life is unfair"

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and i think good game desing should be fair

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ppl play games bcs games dont cheat

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bcs game has its own rules and u can expect to play it

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all games about player having control

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its the most fun part

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at teally saying its perfectly fine to have underperfoming archetype rely purely on rng

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while archetype underperfomes even if u get a mythic every run

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tealy, u gotta invest 1000 hrs of ur life into lootruns i swear u will absolutely for sure change ur opinion

sudden marsh
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i dont think getting unlucky is that deep and i think you should find a second thing to spend your time in, maybe something that isnt a game but idk im not you

sand wolf
sudden marsh
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i dont think getting unlucky is that deep and i think you should find a second thing to spend your time in, maybe something that isnt a game but idk im not you

sand wolf
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i got a dream luck one day and dropped 3 boxxed mythics in 10 minutes

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they were 7 stx worth

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5 of which was idol

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like i got insanely lucky and got like 2 normal run performance

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maybe even 2 short run performance

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from insane lvl luck

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tealy loves to say he is a game designer

royal raptor
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for the record, short runs make about 3 stacks per hour probably

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with average luck, if short runs are done right

sand wolf
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so i would add to that
why would player peak 1/1000 candy if it can peak 1/100 cake?

sand wolf
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like in most of chest runs u dont even get 1 boxed mythic after 2 hrs

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ALSO why do we say like chest runs dont need pulls if int scheme is right there in the game

sudden marsh
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i dont think getting unlucky is that deep and i think you should find a second thing to spend your time in, maybe something that isnt a game but idk im not you

sand wolf
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this is about chests giving less

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like what is even ur point?

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dont play the game bcs u dont like some of its parts?

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We literally in the FEEDBACK channel

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the point of FEEDBACK is say which parts u dont like and why

sudden marsh
sand wolf
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go to grocery store and ask ppl to not buy bread idk

sand wolf
sudden marsh
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tealy has said multiple times that you just cant change the chance of getting a certain mission

sudden marsh
sand wolf
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i have 2 threads asking to buff cgreed so it can be a jtrick alternative

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but u only choose to see my rng threads

exotic vapor
sudden marsh
# sand wolf Where do u see short sightedness?

if you increase the chance of ex. jt and its a good mission everyone is going to want to reset for jt even more because it makes the most expected mythics and then you have turned lrs into a jt simulator

sand wolf
sudden marsh
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and if you increase expected mythics you then inflate the market and mythics inherently lose value you are looking at it strictly from you as a player

sudden marsh
sand wolf
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this is just pure blindness

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i ask for less rng at the start exatcly bcs i want ppl to restart less

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and i ask to buff cgreed exactly so we dont get jtrick simulator

sudden marsh
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im not even a ct or staff i dont have access or have seen what they consider but even i can see that this simple change has more drastic effects than you intend, as is a lot of game design

sand wolf
sudden marsh
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what does that mean

sand wolf
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it means give me an actual reason to change my mind and not just "well change could be bad"

sudden marsh
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so if you want to talk about blindness, i did not say or intend that

sand wolf
sudden marsh
sand wolf
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give me such consequence

sudden marsh
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of what

sand wolf
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like imagive cgreed now gives same amount of pulls a jtrick per challenge

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give me awful consequence what i and wynncraft will face

sudden marsh
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so are you talking about cleansing greed or cleansing ritual

sand wolf
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cgreed is cleansing greed

sudden marsh
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cleansing greed doesnt give pulls

sand wolf
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the one that removes curses per chest and does nothing else

sudden marsh
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so cleansing ritual might as well not exist

sand wolf
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imagine its buffed so it will give pulls like jtrick

sudden marsh
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and now you have a mission that is basically dead weight

sand wolf
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u said what?

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how much lootruns have u done?

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c ritual was never about removing curses its about adding white challenges

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or u mean c rital cannot be paired with c greed in the run?

sudden marsh
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mb got confused

sand wolf
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c greed removes A LOT of curses but does nothing else

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and the thing is curses a barely any problem in most of the tactics

sudden marsh
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still unintended consequence is you make people only go for yellow missions which then stales gameplay because the other archetypes of missions are less appealing if you have 2 challenges that give a shit ton of pulls

sand wolf
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only way to use c greed is paired with curses to power int scheme

sudden marsh
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idk what else you want me to say to show what you are suggesting is incredibly short sighted

sand wolf
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also u gotta wear disco to actually profit from them

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most of the ppl dont take chest missions just bcs they dont play with disco

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this is not overbuffing

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its just buffing to the normal lvl

sudden marsh
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im done wasting my time have fun in your mind palace

sand wolf
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bro can u just idk say it politely

sudden marsh
sand wolf
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u just leaving on fuck u

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yeah yeah but saying fuck u in the middle of conversation and at the end is not the same

sand wolf
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u can u just say alr u won have a good day

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and i will say the same to you at the end

royal raptor
royal raptor
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and you get boons from both jester and hoarder

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for flying chest runs, I always take +6 dark grey

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and maybe a +2 purple too

sand wolf
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if it could give u pulls

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u could replace jtrick with it

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as an alternative

royal raptor
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cleansing greed is a mission that is just a net negative, basically always
stasis was somewhat justified before they fixed side hustle, now stasis is utterly useless always

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my problem is not the first mission appearance chances, but useless missions existing

sand wolf
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yea

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but well not a single soul in ct is willing to make cgreed or stasis more useful

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bcs bla bla shortsighted bla bla

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but i dont feel like never playtesting updates for example is not shortsighed

royal raptor
sand wolf
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well its either delete or buff

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idk how u even know its a bandaid

royal raptor
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That said, I also find it disappointing that such useless missions are allowed to exist for over a year now or something

royal raptor
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if its an original concept fix, its an actual fix

sand wolf
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from useless missions only thrill seeker is a new one all other are so old

royal raptor
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right, I forgot about thrill seeker, add it to the list of utterly useless missions too, especially since it literally doesn't even work, because its bugged

sand wolf
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well i think there is a limit to creativity in lootruns

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and going for the most unique solution led lrs to have 3 absolutely dogshit missions that ct is unwilling to change

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like idk u cannot fix c greed unless u give it pulls

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just u CANT

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u cannot fix stasis

royal raptor
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+1 pull for every curse deleted saltroll

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(would be too op)

sand wolf
sand wolf
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bcs u cannot make more than 8 curses per 2 chals (i dont count complete chaos)

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and it should be better than jtrick anyway bcs its harder to use and u will still need some way to get boons

royal raptor
sand wolf
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like 2 - 3 curses per 2 challenges if u lucky

royal raptor
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it gives 100-150 curses per run

sand wolf
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well jtrick is extremely rare

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and why not have such interaction

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tealy can even call it a god run

royal raptor
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it would fix not getting interest scheme, and still getting a good run with jtrick + cgreed, its jtrick thats rare, not interest scheme

royal raptor
sand wolf
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also i would argue that jtrick gives u 100+ curses

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like i used c ritual with jtrick scheme

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and i had to use dark gray to actually max white challenges

royal raptor
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+1 pull per 2 curses removed would be.. still underperforming, but probably a good bonus

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+1 pull per 1 curses removed might be a bit too op, idk

sand wolf
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its still worse than jtrick

royal raptor
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you see, it can be used with porphyro runs too....

sand wolf
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bcs if u jtrick gives u 2 curses it gives u 6 pulls
while c greed will give u 4 pulls with porphy

sand wolf
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like hoarder or maybe eq

royal raptor
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wait nvm

sand wolf
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and if u take eq just doing purples is better

royal raptor
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it only removes curses from flying chest items, mb

sand wolf
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?

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im pretty sure cgreed activates of chests

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flying chests*

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oh god this msg cd pains me

royal raptor
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right
After opening a Flying Chest, remove one of your Curses.

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which means that yeah nvm, it cannot be used with porphyro runs

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but if you add +1 pull per 1 curse removed, then flying chest runs would suddenly become way too op

sand wolf
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if u have 3 mission combo*

royal raptor
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in any case, +1 pull per 2 curse removed would be a great small bonus

sand wolf
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one of which is extremely rare

royal raptor
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and it wouldn't make flying chest runs all that much better

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and it would somewhat save runs where you only get jtrick, and not interest scheme

sand wolf
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ye

royal raptor
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or jtrick + mat, no interest scheme

sand wolf
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well jtrick + mat is basically same as jtrick + scheme tbh

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if no bombs at least

royal raptor
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and the downside is that boons that give boons per (max 8) curses you have (the strongest boons) will have 0 effect, so it even has a downside

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a "god" run is jester + interest + mat/chaos + chest loot bomb = 20-22 flying chests per 2 challenges

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only in SE, ofc, and maybe in sky

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but that only happens every once in a while, very rare

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so it better be this rewarding

sand wolf
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im not even sure if its gonna be that many chests

royal raptor
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it will be

sand wolf
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like how much jtrick gives with bomb and int scheme?

royal raptor
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enough to make it that many chests

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enough to max out the bonus chest counter

sand wolf
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insane

royal raptor
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but barely enough, with max loot bonus

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it only works with literal hypermaxed setup

sand wolf
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oh i see

royal raptor
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and you need 400-600 lb + chest loot bomb

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and 3 mission combo too

sand wolf
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so well its an actually insane lvl of prep to get an insane performance

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nah thats to balanced we should just nerf fallen again

royal raptor
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chaos is a bit risky though, it can break the aqua yellow chain when it gives aqua

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which can literally make it give you less flying chests over time

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but at the same time, its better than not taking it imo

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it gives on average +1.75 flying chests per challenge, mat gives +2

sand wolf
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chaos gives a lot of chals

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so worthy anyway

royal raptor
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and it gives purples too, for pulls

sand wolf
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ye

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but again its 4 mission combo we are talking about

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i think lootruns should be balanced around the fact that more mission combos = more reward

royal raptor
sand wolf
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4 missions would be much more op than 3 in that situation

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like cgreed + jtrick + chaos is not that big

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its big but just adding int scheme triples the output

royal raptor
sand wolf
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well if u have average 7 chests and u get + 12

royal raptor
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with the new cgreed, yeah, 4 mission combo would be op

sand wolf
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its almost triple

royal raptor
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interest scheme is the mission that at least doubles your flying chest amount, yeah

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but it needs jester, and jester is the one that kinda works in itself

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especially with mat/chaos

sand wolf
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not as band-aid and short-term as some say ig

royal raptor
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LOL

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for last mission selection, I got inner peace, materialism, thrill seeker, stasis, orphions grace

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what was still in the pool: jtrick, interest scheme, porphyro, gourmand

sand wolf
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this is a sign

royal raptor
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without any of the "op" missions (but I did get treasury bill)

sand wolf
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well its just luck

royal raptor
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its a sign if its convenient, but its luck if its not : p

sand wolf
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yea!!!

cerulean kestrel
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@exotic vapor sorry to interrupt with whatever happened here but I think what they were getting at is a pity system, but then lost they lost the plot

exotic vapor