Stop nerfing divzer

[tall heart]

Cbomb which CT considered bug abusing 🥺🙏

[stark zealot]

ct : damn divzer is op
meanwhile grimtrap
https://youtu.be/TrXNn-9CsP8?si=tT_8ajc-obuGPIBy

[tall heart]

Idk how smoke stack works i just know its the only reason people say grim is op

[leaden edge]

how was cbomb bug abuse?

[tall heart]

Ask ct not me

[shadow tangle]

its apperently really easy

[leaden edge]

u do not need maddening

[shadow tangle]

you just sac clone, cast smoke bomb with wall of smoke

[leaden edge]

just bamboozle smoke

[shadow tangle]

then repeat

[tall heart]

Epic

So its bug abusing by using itended game mechanics

Another ct classic

[shadow tangle]

also the video says trickshade is still strong even better

also 1.6m smokes???

[odd bison]

Isn't that old grimtrap thing

Pre-trick reword or something

[shadow tangle]

thats the build in the description

[odd bison]

You would use triple smoke bombs+6 clones and it'll throw out a lot

[tall heart]

Also they'll prob say somethingthe same way they said how trap stacking is bug abuse even tho it was legit a cool and not too easy playstyle (and cbomb was really only good with macros anyway and not super easy either...)

[odd bison]

Oh I didn't see the video

[stark zealot]

ct : damn divzer op
meanwhile cataclysm
https://youtu.be/qy8BdFxyeRg?si=v-PpKPmW42KU_Zbk

[shadow fjord]

smokes can't hit tcc

[kindred forum]

already a reso nerf incoming

[leaden edge]

they can

[fringe bison]

wait is there another one 😭

[kindred forum]

when the ec bug gets patched yeah

[fringe bison]

oh man

if that happend then shatter reso is officials dead

[limber tree]

3 nerfs in a row for reso incoming

[odd bison]

Reso doesn't even need nerfs

Acolyte is broken, not reso
Without a burger player or 4 acolytes you can't sustain reso

[shadow tangle]

so get a burger player

[odd bison]

"<item> is too strong when you have a coordinated team to make it strong! It does 700k dps with a glass Cannon build"
In an MMORPG
Where teamplay should be the norm
And also the other player is a huge dps loss because they do basically no dps compared to any normal build
So in the end it's only like 100k dps more than using 2 hybrid Oly builds

2 crafted Oly builds easily match reso+burger dps

[shadow tangle]

teamwork is too overpowered for wynncraft

also anything relevant either goes to an invulnerable phase or just dies fast enough

[odd bison]

The only time it was too op was arca+lb having fortitude and 30 winded

[shadow tangle]

so the dps loss is irrelevant

[tall heart]

Trance 170 winded 🥺

[odd bison]

That's a boss design flaw that makes dps meta too big

[odd bison]

I remember 0 sun Annihilations in beta with the territory damage boost, a trance and a lot of lightbenders

[shadow tangle]

this is why we should make all bosses have forseen swordsman gambit by default or add in a dps softcap

[odd bison]

Make the bosses good

[spark python]

delete wynncraft

[odd bison]

Rather than damage sponges

[shadow tangle]

what like multi phases? doesnt matter if you can just kill it faster

or "stand here or the entire team dies"

[kindred forum]

We need TCC 2

[shadow tangle]

in pfinder

good luck doing that

[odd bison]

Idk but bosses like normal TCC are pretty much damage sponges

If you don't have a lot of dps or your main dps dies you have to deal with a high hp boss that kills any non-tank build in one attack with most attacks and spawns healers that fly around randomly

[shadow tangle]

as someone who had to solo tcc as big mac with 6m hp left it is painful

[odd bison]

As someone who had to solo guild tcc from like 20m health, it's even more painful

I paid the tol rune I'm making my money from it

[echo mountain]

lets ping every individual person who upvoted this post and see if they have an actual opinion or just following the npc thought pattern of no nerf only buff

[sour crow]

[echo mountain]

Hey guys I think theres a middle ground where we can Nerf really OP stuff and Buff Underperforming stuff DAE Believe this

this image is wrong af

[spark python]

you would need to rework all of archer

[odd bison]

you'd need to remove archer

[spark python]

the entire archer set of mythics (minus divzer) are fundamentally designed poorly

[odd bison]

there's no world where a "high range low ehp" class can exist

even tho bolt's range isnt high

there also just isnt anything wynn can do against dps meta when you have bosses with 40m+ hp

[sour crow]

Just make bosses with low health that are invulnerable most of the time

[spark python]

Just make bosses with 1 hp that are invulnerable for a set amount of time

turn this game into a bullet hell game because why not

[sour crow]

Doesnt necessarily have to be bullet hell, I was thinking more puzzle

[odd bison]

puzzle is probably the best way

i would like to not solo bosses in pfinder

[echo mountain]

Yeah I want bosses with mechanics but not memorize a bespoke conlang to perform arithmetic in that language in base 3 to pass a phase

[shadow tangle]

it works until everyone downloads a mod to solve them

so basically see hsb dungeons

[echo mountain]

And also not stand in a specific corner of the map or get team wiped

[odd bison]

hsb dungeons are just a bit too absurd

[sour crow]

Puzzle does not again mean just set in stone mechanics, there could absolutely be variance

[odd bison]

like 6 secrets per room and some of the puzzles in f7 are nearly impossible to do without a helper

[shadow tangle]

considering you can cheat in hsb dungeons

[sour crow]

Or if you want it not be as drab as you think it is, do both at the same time

bullet hell puzzle :)

[shadow tangle]

like 90% of m7 parties have a cheater

its outright recommended that your healer should be cheating

[echo mountain]

The terminal puzzles themselves are fine though

[shadow tangle]

set terminal speed to like 400ms and you'll never get caught

[kindred glade]

most downvoted post gg

[sour crow]

Could also just give a boss thorns/reflection

[shadow tangle]

imagine if someone made an auto lootrun ai cheat

[kindred glade]

they don't exist anymore

[echo mountain]

Secret pathing is one of the only aspects of skill expression though

[odd bison]

you'd need a nasa supercomputer and a lot of minecraft alts to train an AI to lootrun

[shadow tangle]

you could start with baritone

since lootrunning has three main keys
chests, distance, and mobs

[sour crow]

I mean, just have it attempt to do like 10 challeneges, might not be super high pulls but it is lootruns

[shadow tangle]

distance could be solved somewhat easily, mobs wouldn't be that far of a stretch

but the beacons. oh no. the beacons, missions, trials,

[odd bison]

sure, but also tell a new player that in order to do dungeons past f2 you need to memorize hundreds of secrets and in order to do f7 you need to memorize every item name and have quick thinking about colors and your player count is suddenly 1/50 of what it would normally be

[shadow tangle]

this would be the hard part

[odd bison]

actually i think going for a reward-type system for a neural network would be better than baritone, it'll take a while to start up but in the end it'll be better
start by rewarding for reaching a beacon, then reward more for every challenge, then reward a lot for most pulls
similar to how that one trackmania bot works

you'd need to run an ungodly amount of instances tho

[shadow tangle]

this sounds good, but then you'd have to differentiate for yellow/purple/blue runs

[echo mountain]

I mean people use secret mods which some may say is cheating but there isnt much need to memorize every secret path ever in the first place if you arent planning on going super cata 40+ tryhard as a mmm

IIrc not many secrets needed for S+

[shadow tangle]

which could be doable but adds another hurdle

[odd bison]

just gotta go for the highest pulls, whatever the AI figures works the best in the shortest amount of time

[odd bison]

not many secrets?

[shadow tangle]

I mean I guess it's between pulls and flying chest at the end of the day

do you want boxed mythics or pulls

[odd bison]

almost all of them, especially with 1-2 deaths and no mayor for that +10

[kindred glade]

??

[odd bison]

i think it's better to go for pulls

[echo mountain]

Just dont die 😹

[odd bison]

monkey finder?

[kindred glade]

not anymore lol

[echo mountain]

Yeah just blame everything on Monkey finder

[kindred glade]

you go for sac to actually get good things

[odd bison]

i meant in the context of trying to train an AI for lootrunning

[odd bison]

having 1-2 sacrifices is one of the more efficient ways to get pulls

[kindred glade]

it's better to train it to go for boxed 😭

[kindred glade]

3 at minimul lol

[spare mist]

m7 funny healer wanted

[shadow tangle]

at this point if someone makes a lootrun ai for a college project I wouldnt be suprised

[spare mist]

(This is a joke don’t do this in mc it’s sad if you do)

[kindred glade]

tbh you could use the old lr bots to search caves

[odd bison]

sir i played tank, do you know how many times i got crushed by someone pressing down the pillars way way way too early or even while people are standing under for the start of the phase

[kindred glade]

would be faster

can you keep hsb away

[odd bison]

yes

[spare mist]

Just py

[odd bison]

what

[spare mist]

Purple yellow

Faster too

[odd bison]

i stopped playing ages ago

[spare mist]

Oh well if you do it in f7 you solo pad purple as tank

If you fail it’s your own fault

[little pollen]

I would rather have -hp for divzer

Than nerf to damage

Cmon let me enjoy good boltslinger for once

[echo mountain]

The problem is that its kill aura lmfao

It still is after this nerf

[little pollen]

Yea and this nerf is never gonna make me play other bows

Im still playing divzer lol they gotta think of a different direction

[atomic garden]

they dont want people to not play divzer dude

[echo mountain]

Then again my opinion is that the bolt rework shouldnt have involved gangels in any way

Cuz braindead never-miss ability

[kindred glade]

no

[atomic garden]

like divzer is meant to be highest dps for boltslinger its just not meant to do 1.5x the dmg of any other bow

[little pollen]

Fym no

[kindred glade]

doesn't change the issue lol

[echo mountain]

You delete everything in your radius in 10 seconds or less but you are 1 hp so its balanced guys

[low loom]

the problem is that there is no reason to not play divzer lmao

[little pollen]

Yea so why not buff other bows cuz even if divzer is nerfed ill never look at other bows

[echo mountain]

The reasons are explained in the thread

At surface level its Power creep

If something is blatantly overperforming its an elegant solution to tune it down than buffing everything else which risks them overperforming themselves against mobs across the board

[little pollen]

Damn

[atomic garden]

"make the archetype horrible to play instead of nerfing the overtuned weapon"

yeah but not by making spellspam bolt ass (i hope)

[vapid fable]

i love how archer does such shit damage that you can only notice divzer is insanely overtuned when an archetype finally gets good

yeah sure i agree with divzer nerf, but get archer out of the gutter please

[echo mountain]

Nah fuck gangels it should have been removed for an ability thats actually interesting

[vapid fable]

having a class be defined by a single weapon is not healthy

[echo mountain]

Epoch 😹 😹 😹 😹 😹

[vapid fable]

epoch!!!!!!!!!!!

replace spring with gma too please

[echo mountain]

https://tenor.com/view/boy-slow-down-boyslowdown-gif-2283092437165711517

[vapid fable]

no worries most archer mythics are forgettable

[shadow tangle]

thats... shaman

[kindred glade]

mood idk what they were smoking when they made that change

[little cobalt]

are there even other archer mythics except spring, gma, divzer and laby

[vapid fable]

what removing bouncing bomb aspect?

[kindred glade]

no recent change

[vapid fable]

spring is at 50% opacity on that list

[idle obsidian]

Strati deals 400k with 25k non agi ehp

[kindred glade]

bouncing bomb is behind a node that butchers your focus

[vapid fable]

oh right

[placid badger]

Ok as funny as cata is that shit is literally only usable in premade parties you will just suicide in pfinder
Meanwhile pfinder is infested with divzer

[vapid fable]

u cant be comparing any assassin archetype with sleepy ahh bolt bro

[placid badger]

Yeah that too

Assassin cycle is like actually difficult for even decent players

And then bolt gives you a 9 block kill aura so

[placid badger]

Like this is exactly what Archer is and Divzer having been an outlier for so long meant that AT couldn't buff Archer more because otherwise Divzer would do 1M DPS like it was 4 days ago

[vapid fable]

i just really hope they manage to make archer deal damage without being carried by a divzer grade item

because archer literally has nothing else other than damage

[placid badger]

For sure lol

[tall heart]

It has free walk speed !

[vapid fable]

to support what

athletics?

[tall heart]

Your local statue comrade so they can have -110% ws instead of -140%

[placid badger]

Now we just gotta wait a few months for the Sharpshooter rework 🥀

[echo mountain]

Lowkey frenzy was a mistake

[vapid fable]

i wouldnt be mad about frenzy if strati had an identity that wasnt walk speed

[echo mountain]

But ig that is archer's true niche that it just shits out walk speed compared to other classes

Strati just needs a major id atp

Dime a dozen strati escape mid ideas

[vapid fable]

just like how arcanist completely disregards any form of mana regen i think its fine for one archetype to disregard walk speed

now for all archetypes in one class to access it? eh thats debatable

and negating sustain requirements is way more broken the only thing holding it back is arca dmg being mediocre

[tall heart]

Bro dont say that we all know its gonna be another powder special slop ID with wind prison 🥀

Wind Prison no longer deals damage but blinds enemies for 2s type beat

[vapid fable]

Doppler Effect: Wind Prison now grants +50% walk speed to yourself and every ally within 6 blocks.

[tall heart]

For 8 seconds

[scarlet moon]

strati just needs unlimited mid air movement spell

[vapid fable]

Unbound: Gain creative flight.

[junior schooner]

Tcc will die in 5 more zeptaseconds and this is unacceptable

[tall heart]

So timelocked

[vapid fable]

not full control

[onyx sorrel]

Divzer has a lot of dps but pays for it with ehp, it's supposed to have more damage

I'm not too upset with this nerf I just don't want it to keep being nerfed

I'm okay with nerfs as long as it stays a meta damage option

It should be considering it's hp

[tall heart]

wait i got an idea
im gonna cook a CI in a moment

[vapid fable]

at least it did though, divzer is still the best bow

[onyx sorrel]

Best bow is subjective, if ur judging off of damage of course but for the casual player who doesn't know boss patterns then something tankier would be better

[vapid fable]

skill issue

[onyx sorrel]

Assassin and Mage can get far more damage then divzer with better ehp.

like look at trickster

[junior schooner]

Wait til you find out its cause of a bug

[onyx sorrel]

Divzer is good if you know what ur doing but it's supposed to be a high risk high reward weapon

[vapid fable]

!?

divzer is more consistent than both though

[onyx sorrel]

Burst is better in most situations

[vapid fable]

divzer is also piss easy to play

[onyx sorrel]

get to second fase, burst second fase, get to third fase, burst third fase

[vapid fable]

have to agree w that

[onyx sorrel]

What is hard to play if divzer is easy? Maybe the spell combos aren't the hardest in the game but most other classes have easier spell combos.

[vapid fable]

reso shade trick rift acro fallen

[tall heart]

Trust the process

[onyx sorrel]

Hadal puppet bomber sustains like 400k and has better ehp

[vapid fable]

divzer cycle is easy gives u insane ws and escape + leap lets u fly unrestrained

[onyx sorrel]

also easier to play if I'm correct

[vapid fable]

yeah pbomber is p chill

[onyx sorrel]

I would say divzer's cycle is medium difficulty but surviving can be hard because one mistake ends you.

[vapid fable]

medium?

cycling storm bomb and shield when its up, aiming wherever the hell u want

[onyx sorrel]

Compare it to ur average build

[scarlet axle]

What is the benefits of this tho

[vapid fable]

compared to ur avg build its easier than average

[tall heart]

fly

[vapid fable]

meta build at least

[onyx sorrel]

No smaller targets need aim and you need to melee inbetween

[scarlet axle]

flying on bolt isn’t that useful

[tall heart]

doesnt have to be bolt tho

[vapid fable]

holy shit right clicking and pointing in the general direction of the enemy

[scarlet axle]

Flying on trapper isn’t that useful either

[tall heart]

also i made it 15s at first but people will argue thats far too op

[scarlet moon]

flying on sharp duh

[tall heart]

ok but what if you fly so high nothing can hit you
also sharp

[vapid fable]

CREP RAYYYY

[onyx sorrel]

That's almost every build

[tall heart]

grep

[scarlet axle]

https://tenor.com/view/luccabug-side-eye-cat-luccabug-cats-gif-4837800896815179590

[vapid fable]

how many builds have u played bro

damage ones that rely on heals to stay alive?

[onyx sorrel]

Probably 10 or 20 meta

[scarlet axle]

Dawg that’s like epoch tstack and warp tp spam

[onyx sorrel]

Both

[scarlet axle]

Warp tp spam is not meta anyway 😴

u should be using meteor too

[onyx sorrel]

Arcanist

[scarlet axle]

Arcanist tp spam is crazy work

[onyx sorrel]

No I'm saying normal arcanist

How much dps do you guys think divzer should be getting for it to be balanced

[scarlet axle]

divzer is still 700k dps 😴

[vapid fable]

anything around 700k is fair to me

[onyx sorrel]

My build only gets 600-700k

[vapid fable]

considering how much dmg other classes also do

[onyx sorrel]

I'm good with a divzer nerf if other op classes get the same treatment

[vapid fable]

im good with a divzer nerf if archer gets buffed from being shit

[onyx sorrel]

This is what I think as well, I just don't want it lower than 500k

[scarlet moon]

im good with a divzer nerf if its not towards its damage but towards its sustain

[onyx sorrel]

real, nerf the mana steal stat

[vapid fable]

why did ppl suggest -hp nerf to divz as if that would be substantial at all

[onyx sorrel]

Also spring is getting much better sustain and 400k dps with more ehp where is that nerf

[fierce rapids]

Ok so 400k is way under 600k

[vapid fable]

divzer benefits from raid buffs much more too

[onyx sorrel]

Yeah but it has more ehp and sustain

[fierce rapids]

Not really lol it can’t use 3 of the 5 sps at all???

[vapid fable]

spring has -40dex n lower base

[scarlet axle]

If ur playing ewa the only one u can use is str

[fierce rapids]

Yeah so spring can’t use 1 of the sps

[scarlet axle]

Ur int and agi are already maxed

[vapid fable]

yeah wow

[onyx sorrel]

if divzer dps is 600k than nerfing it again would bring it down to almost a normal mythic level.

[vapid fable]

defense and agi!!!!! holy moly!!!!! op

[scarlet axle]

and -40 def plus -130 dex

[onyx sorrel]

isn't the whole point of glass cannons more damage no hp?

[fierce rapids]

That in my humble opinion does not justify a 33% loss in dps

[vapid fable]

this, you are not gonna be interested in stacking ehp if the boss melts and u can just dodge the usual stuff anyway

this is why -hp nerf would do nothing

[onyx sorrel]

That's always been a thing with a full dps meta party

[junior schooner]

If we are being real nothing in this game should be even doing 600k dps but its been a year and the high ass damage potential has stayed so its fine

Just embrace it atp

[onyx sorrel]

ur assuming everyone is in a perfect meta party

[vapid fable]

even if ur the only dps unless ur doing nol you face no issue

[onyx sorrel]

I've played divzer before and it took a while to not die to black hole in onol but I really liked the reward of getting better at it until eventually I could almost no hit orphion

[thorny shoal]

not really in fact thats assuming the player that is running the build has iq higher than room temp

[kindred glade]

-hp does nothing

[onyx sorrel]

This is not just a divzer issue almost any class can do this with enough damage builds

[vapid fable]

how u dying to black hole bro if anything the other stuff is the risk??

[onyx sorrel]

Those were my first few runs

[vapid fable]

my point was that -hp would do nothing to divzer, just like it wouldnt for said classes ur talking about

[thorny shoal]

dawg why are you playing divzer in nol????

[onyx sorrel]

Not everyone is perfect at the game

[vapid fable]

fun melting

[thorny shoal]

out of the 4 you choose the worse one to test it out 😭

[onyx sorrel]

Wanted to get some aspects from there and wanted to test divzer

[vapid fable]

ill be real tcc and tna are pretty sleepy on bolt, nol presents a tougher challenge that makes it fun to run on divz bolt now that it does great dmg

[thorny shoal]

maybe because bolt divzer is not nol meta?

[vapid fable]

especially after guardian angel range nerf you will die a bunch at first, but its worth it

[onyx sorrel]

getting oneshot compared to two shot is a pretty big difference if ur runnign with randoms

You can't tell me you never get hit

[vapid fable]

but yea ur right this discussion is about optimal setting not handicapping ourselves on purpose

[vapid fable]

yeah it really is, thankfully divzer can still survive 2 hits

[onyx sorrel]

So what do you think is a reasonable nerf?

[vapid fable]

the nerf it just got, quite honestly

[onyx sorrel]

Okay then we agree

[vapid fable]

🤝

divzer had to get nerfed to allow archer to be balanced at all

[onyx sorrel]

I upvoted this post so that it doesn't get more nerfs, the one it just got is deserved

[vapid fable]

now please buff the rest of the archer archetypes as a follow up

[onyx sorrel]

and nerf assassin

[vapid fable]

also make the other half of archer mythics not complete garbage please

[onyx sorrel]

well not acrobat

[vapid fable]

buff acro bro 🙏

[onyx sorrel]

plz don't nerf acro lol

[vapid fable]

it has no business doing this little dmg with the skill and risk req

[shadow tangle]

like first they nerf
but then they don't buff

[hardy olive]

For any high base mythic why don't they nerf the base a lot but give the item itself a noticeable +spell% or raw spell so its less benefited from crafted armor and raid buffs

[hearty onyx]

why would they want this

you do that enough and then builds won’t need to build damage to do damage

[hardy olive]

because i guess not everyone runs some 8 crafteds doing 1 mil dps and every person on the it assumes if you give this specific weapon to anyone they will be doing just 1 mil dps

[hearty onyx]

you don’t need 8 crafteds to do damage on divzer

it’s still incredibly strong with an uncrafted build

[hardy olive]

im just giving an example for a high base including stuff like cata

[hearty onyx]

people are so worried about their build but in reality it’s user error causing them to do subpar damage

[hardy olive]

also stuff like how fast you can cycle spells although stuff like that is less relevant nowadays

[hearty onyx]

bolt isn’t really that cps reliant

you can waste your mana for a little more damage with bombs but at the end of the day most of your damage is ga and storms

[hardy olive]

are you ragebaiting me vro i'm not only talking about divzer and bolt only

im thinking this should apply to any "outlier" etw high base weapon

[hearty onyx]

what is wrong with investing money into gear

[kindred glade]

all your damage really is on 3rd and 4th which cost much less due to accessable options

[hearty onyx]

i don’t get it

[scarlet moon]

whats wrong with minmaxing your damage at the cost of not being allowed to make the mistake of taking damage?

[hearty onyx]

this game doesn’t need to be dumbed down any more idk

like i get what you’re saying where crafteds would be contributing percentage wise less if spell damage % were added to something like divzer or cata but there’s like no reason to do that

at a certain point like with items like pure you get degenerate builds that stack raw spell or sp

it doesn’t really change much in lieu of build disparity it just shifts the focus onto different stats

or items like lament (which sort of has this gimmick already slapped on because they want to force fluid healing)

plus i fundamentally disagree with roll hell items hadal is already bad enough we don’t need hadal 2 3 and 4 on fatal cata and divzer

[hardy olive]

Crafteds are a lil too crazy statwise and especially when its working on a high base weapon, but it should be still doing more damage than 0 crafteds but it shouldn't do that much if you know what i mean, if we are gutting crafteds then its gon take forever. It's about nerfing the outliers and giving it a little compensation so it works roughly the same with non crafted builds but nerfs the crafteds builds

[hardy olive]

i don't remember if im tweaking but don't they all either have + raw or + percent just tweak the ranges

[scarlet moon]

crafteds are made from using rare ingredients that have to be farmed, and someone needs to craft them so there is effort involved to getting them, thus it makes sense that it overperforms except in a few cases (needing sp, hyperspecialized items like statue, major ids)

[hearty onyx]

you can’t tweak ranges

idk call it bad game design or whatever but every single roll of every item is 0.3-1.3 x base value

unless it’s negative then it’s 0.7-1.3

only time you can keep them at the values you want is pre id item shop stuff

it’s really silly idk holdover from ancient game design

[hardy olive]

Oh i meant like for example lets say the 50% roll was like 200 something on divzer, now make the 50% roll like 300 or something

[hearty onyx]

yeah but put too much emphasis on it and it becomes a super important stat

[scarlet moon]

the number in the middle is the base, which is multiplied by 0.3 and 1.3 to make the range

[hearty onyx]

idk i don’t really see a purpose of making people pay extra for good mythic rather than pay extra for good items

[hardy olive]

i got a good roll on it so i don't care but ye ik what you mean, but most of the high base mythics are already relatively cheap anyway and people already own good ones so it wouldn't change things too much

[hearty onyx]

i mean average player is broke as hell 😭 i would not really want them to pay extra to get a weapon they may or may not like

[hardy olive]

isnt like a really good divzer like 3 stx when i was playing

[hearty onyx]

at least with the current system it’s like non crafted -> i like this build -> invest in crafteds

hype has made it spike to 7 stacks unid

[tall heart]

yeah people in #1019649786799996980 seem to forget very often that your average player has less than 10stx, often even less than 10stx networth...

[hardy olive]

wtf

[scarlet moon]

divzer is like 6stx rn

[hearty onyx]

though i imagine after panic selling its like 5-6 now

[hearty onyx]

ur average player has like 37 le and is asking for a raid build in questions

[scarlet moon]

the avg player has 1 mythic bought from tm being the cheapest ever

[hardy olive]

alr mb twin guess im really getting old hitting yall with the "back in my days"

[tall heart]

only reason i put 10stx is bc a lot of people in these channels assume anyone can afford a top 1 meta warp lr build perfect hpr rolls perfect hpr tomes all perfect gear

[hardy olive]

collapse 💕

[tall heart]

red oa lore accurate inferno to use with acrobat with no aspects

[hearty onyx]

i remember when it used to be like meet someone they have no money and a white horse

[tall heart]

i remember when people had 5stx and that was considered being mega rich

[hearty onyx]

owning a mythic meant you were like upper class 😭😭😭

[tall heart]

indeed

[hardy olive]

did they nerf lootrunning

[hearty onyx]

kinda

it’s not as brainless 2 total strategies anymore but the trial + challenge combos can get pretty crazy pulls apparently

[junior schooner]

Get yo money up brokie

[tall heart]

Fine I'll try to get to 550stx by the end of the month

I'm only 20stx away

[hearty onyx]

never go band for band with a furry…

[hardy olive]

But if good divzer was still like 3 stx and did not inflate like crazy since bolt buff wouldn't my idea be kinda feasable as u only need to get this weapon and slap some non crafted decently rolled gear on you can do like idk 70% of a crafted dudes dps ( im just saying random numbers)

[hearty onyx]

idk i feel like noncrafted builds are actually not that far off for most builds

[tall heart]

I dont beat the allegations

Im rich irl and ingame

Please sell me a dungeons won warp so i can go broke ingame (i need to buy like 40 simus probably)

[hardy olive]

the difference is like 2 times the damage especially on stuff like divzer

[hearty onyx]

that is just not true 😭

maybe on some super racist 7/8 crafted build but the average build people are using is not much worse than a common 4/8 crafted divzer

barely anyone runs 7/8 because it’s just not playable or sustainable

[scarlet axle]

buildcist 💔

[junior schooner]

Who do you think i am bub

[hardy olive]

idk im getting like 400 something k when i hopped on and checked with my non crafted and a guy tells me this stuff does 1 million

[hearty onyx]

trusting wynn main for anything useful is like opening an dictionary blindly and hoping you got the right word

[hardy olive]

nah its one of my guild members

[vapid fable]

that guild member prob meant dmg against a raid boss if anything, not a dummy, also that raid boss is either tna or tcc, also also that was pre nerf

[hearty onyx]

yeah but people to this day still post screenshots of the first 2 seconds of dummy dps

[junior schooner]

Ooohhh i believe you now

[hearty onyx]

and trust dummy peak dps

[junior schooner]

Thanks for the clarificaiton

[hearty onyx]

dummy peak dps is like the fakest thing to ever exist

[vapid fable]

dummies need a rework ASAP

[hearty onyx]

would genuinely fix all the dps baiting slop people post in class builds

[vapid fable]

nah u can still use the jsmacros script that edits numbers on screen :>

[hearty onyx]

can you send it

[hardy olive]

idk but why do i think like the at/it genuinely think ts real some times

[hearty onyx]

sometimes it feels like that

sensationalism is real

[junior schooner]

Wdym you think

[hearty onyx]

both ways

[shadow tangle]

well you need some way to test dps

[junior schooner]

Thats literally what happens

[rocky spoke]

are we still here dawg I slept for 8 hours

[shadow tangle]

dummy says im doing 40-50k as big mac but in practice it was like 20k in tna

also its even less now since I'm playing ambulance warrior

[hardy olive]

some spell conversion shi that probably gets the damage cooked against element defense

[placid badger]

Greg doesn't have fire def

[vapid fable]

ele def on warrior, good one

[hardy olive]

Does spell conversions affect elemental damage or only non element damg?

[shadow tangle]

also my guardian has 2 water powders

so thats a self dps loss

[scarlet moon]

I watched that happen live, its true

[tall heart]

what, when

[scarlet moon]

with you

[tall heart]

when

[scarlet moon]

on discord, some many months ago

[hearty onyx]

wake up back to the engagementbait factory

[slow ether]

the trick is to use 2 guards one with fire one with water

[tall heart]

oh maybe with asthei cause he actually refused to respond when i mentioned having 10 pages,,,

[hearty onyx]

war meta…….

[tall heart]

thats the only thing i can think of 😭

my true wealth in wynn though

thats my almost 4 digit amount of party crackers

[slow ether]

furries too rich

do not ask dorrie where he got his money from…

[tall heart]

working a 8-5 job

and for wynn uhhh 🤫
(i sold over 2600 dispersions pre 2.1)

jk thats probably a lie, it was likely way less, but i sold so many and then revealed it worked and now it does not work anymore 😊

[sly walrus]

fuck is a dispersion

[scarlet moon]

tcc fabled ring, EA with ws poison and main raw

[sly walrus]

and how do you make money off of that

[tall heart]

random tcc ring and i have no idea why people like it so much, i just sold 10 one day cause i had been tccing a bunch and then woop-de-doo they all sold for 10le each

[sly walrus]

???

[tall heart]

then it started

my most expensive one was 2.5stx i think and it wasnt perfect, blue tho

[sly walrus]

in what weird ass build was that even used in man I'm glad I didn't play back then wtaf

[tall heart]

idrc about all this the only funny part to me is that bluethesniper found out about it and he tried it and got so fucking mad at me because it didnt work for him 😭

he was actually coping and malding so hard in my dms

[sly walrus]

Are u a silverbuller ?

[tall heart]

i havent bought shares since they became a feature, in which i bought the max pack for fun, so not really

i do have silverbull subscription since day 1 tho

[glad needle]

It would be nice to fight a boss that has a predictable pattern of vulnerability and invulnerability

[odd bison]

you won't like what i'm going to say

[glad needle]

When it's vulnerable it can't do much, but when it's invulnerable it's trying to end the world trying to kill you

[odd bison]

summa boss altar boss:

[glad needle]

Simply just disable mob AI when it's vulnerable

Simple as that

Make it a DPS test

[flat viper]

Solar vanguard 🥀

anti dps test

[glad needle]

https://tenor.com/view/trash-garbage-dumpster-gif-22255810

[flat viper]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1071393285500829759/1418217851394985994/togif.gif

[glad needle]

I can't get over how no one wants to redesign the actual worst boss in the game, but that's another topic

[tall heart]

WTF LMFAO

[flat viper]

actual real question in questions channel 💀

[onyx sorrel]

I kinda like divzer where it's at rn, trickster, shaman, and mage can all get more dps.

[tall heart]

tbf i know a lot of people think its meant for in inventory but like yea no

[onyx sorrel]

Cata is several times stronger dps wise if I've heard correctly and that's not nerfed yet

[flat viper]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/797634269248880651/1416593329075916900/horse.gif

[onyx sorrel]

Riftwalker mage only takes seconds to get timelocked up and can deal millions

[onyx sorrel]

Reso acolyte can also get crazy damage and provide hp and overhealth

also acolyte gives way too many buffs

Just the buffs make it worth it to have an acolyte

[placid badger]

Ok but fr like you gotta compare divzer bolt to everything else bolt not to other classes

Spring is hard-pressed to do like maybe half the DPS of divzer
Then everything else except cspring does less

[onyx sorrel]

Either archer needs another buff or other classes need a nerf

[onyx sorrel]

My exact point

[slow ether]

just because something deals a lot of dps it doesnt mean the item is at fault because the 2 main factors that make stuff op is AT and item

you have to find out why something is broken first, and in cata’s case… its AT being good while cata itself is fine

[placid badger]

Yeah and for Divzer it was having ridiculous high base dps and mana sustain

[onyx sorrel]

divzer also has less ehp and spring has better sustain(divzer doesn't have bad sustain spring just has infinite)

also can't spring get 400k

[placid badger]

Divzer literally fully refills your mana bar every 6 seconds

[slow ether]

divzer has less ehp thats why it deals more dps than spring

[shadow tangle]

how is spring better than gma for bolt

[onyx sorrel]

spring never needs to refill

[placid badger]

GMA has garbage bolt conversions and you need to build to cancel hpr

[shadow tangle]

or just throw on good ol nscar

[placid badger]

Build to cancel hpr

[onyx sorrel]

Considering some spring builds can get half damage for like 4 times ehp that's worth it to some newer players without meta guilds

[shadow tangle]

you mean you're not hpr% canceling your hpr canceling

[onyx sorrel]

Divzer deserves more damage than other archer mythics because it has less ehp

everyone makes mistakes and one wrong move gets you killed as divzer

[slow ether]

and divzer is still getting way more dmg than any other bow currently even after the nerf

[onyx sorrel]

Spring gives you multiple chances

[shadow tangle]

divzer nerf 2 when

[slow ether]

like divzer is still a really extreme bow and the dmg it gets currently is deserved unlike when it had 1.3k base

[shadow tangle]

then well
buff everything else

[onyx sorrel]

I'm okay with the nerf I already said that I just don't want more nerfs

[fierce rapids]

buff hero its so mid now

[slow ether]

i cant confirm that no more balance changes will happen to divzer but im quite happy with how it is rn

[onyx sorrel]

almost every other class already does more damage

Divzer is one of the few ways archer gets meta damage

[flat viper]

divzer rebalance: -500% reflection -500% thorns

[shadow tangle]

give gma 1200 base for all sakes

[flat viper]

gma major id but its just rage 2

[onyx sorrel]

I don't think the solution is to nerf archer into the ground again just so that other classes can be better

either nerf other classes or buff archer in general

[glad needle]

Isn't the issue that divzer does too much damage?

[onyx sorrel]

We aren't comparing just between archer archetypes, we are talking about the whole state of the game

[onyx sorrel]

The issue is that it far out damages other archer weapons

Almost any other class can get more dps than divzer

[glad needle]

What's the baseline DPS expectation for each class

[placid badger]

The issue is that divzer does way more than the other Archer bows

[glad needle]

Because I think this issue doesn't look into what you can casually accomplish

[onyx sorrel]

Then buff archer bows, we want archer to be viable again correct?

[placid badger]

I mean I'm in favor of just buffing Archer numbers in general

[onyx sorrel]

Archer is weaker in general than other classes

[placid badger]

But like Divzer was just so vastly outperforming every other archer mythic and idt that's a hot take

[glad needle]

.

[slow ether]

baseline dps expectation doesnt exist because each archetype should be balanced on a case-to-case basis

[onyx sorrel]

It is but it's also super glassy, and if ur comparing it to 250k dps that's kinda sad

[glad needle]

That is not a good thing

Because then you have weapons that outperform and weapons that underperform

[junior schooner]

Do you deadass think this exists

Baseline is whatever the fuck it wants to be

[onyx sorrel]

There are tank builds that get far more than spring

[placid badger]

Ok well trick is its own thing

[onyx sorrel]

My inferno build gets almost as much as divzer with 10 times ehp

[placid badger]

Yeah that's not an item issue that's an atree issue

[onyx sorrel]

Reso would also leave divzer in the dust

[slow ether]

weapons are items not abilities, item stat balancing can be boiled down to fancy regressions on a fundamental level and outliers are easy to dealt with, what matters most for a class’s balance is the power of the ability itself

[onyx sorrel]

I think buffing archer and nerfing divzer is a better idea

that would bring divzer down and archer up, basically making divzer the same as it is and other archer mythics closer

[glad needle]

If there is a goal of 100k DPS, a weapon's usability should reflect that baseline.

If it goes over 100k there's a reasonable negative side effec

If it goes under 100k there are unique supporting capabilities that make it okay for both attacking and defending

[junior schooner]

Cheers mate didnt know that

[onyx sorrel]

Me with my 400k no downside inferno build that can facetank everything

[slow ether]

having such dps standard is utterly pointless because you cant quantitively measure how much dps a class should gain or lose based on like 20 other factors

[onyx sorrel]

My mage build gets millions of dps as well

[glad needle]

A baseline balance is a goal to hit for builds against the game's content, making it seem balanced (this is a thought mind you)

[onyx sorrel]

Peak on dummy is 1.7m

[placid badger]

Rift is burst except that burst is after 5 seconds

[onyx sorrel]

and that has like 4 times divzer's hp

[onyx sorrel]

takes 3 seconds to charge and lasts like 10

average that out

I play divzer cause it's fun, other classes are far more viable

I like the challenge

[placid badger]

Lasts like 10 but Greg phases after like 5 sometimes

[glad needle]

If divzer does crazy damage its glassy structure makes it perfectly fine as is

If spring doesn't do enough then either it needs to be buffed to acceptable damage for endgame content, or the weapon has unique capabilities that assist other damage dealers

[onyx sorrel]

If ur in a crazy party

[onyx sorrel]

Depends on boss, you can also only half charge it

and rift gets infinite heals because of timelocked

[placid badger]

Then that's not 1.7m dps but whatever ts is Divzer talk not rift

[slow ether]

lets not talk about rift its like a whole other story honestly

[onyx sorrel]

So we are basically ignoring all other classes

[placid badger]

The scope of this thread is how divzer performs relative to everything else in archer not how Archer performs relative to everything else

[onyx sorrel]

They are very closely related

I don't see why the solution is to bring archer out of the meta again

Why not just bring more archer mythics into it to compete

one's with more ehp but a decent bit less damage

[slow ether]

because our scope is on item balancing when it comes to divzer specifically, rather than the whole archer itself

[shadow tangle]

because people hate archer being good

like that's it
they genuinely just hate archer

[slow ether]

also divzer is still good im getting 700k-ish with a sustainable bolt build

[shadow tangle]

I said the quiet part out loud

[onyx sorrel]

It is still good but if they keep nerfing it it won't be

[slow ether]

no one is saying anything about further nerfs…

[junior schooner]

Yeah bro they nerfing divzer tommorow

[onyx sorrel]

Yeah and I think that's fair

[onyx sorrel]

This thread isn't about just this nerf, it's to stop nerfing divzer, meaning no more nerfs

I think there are bigger problems than divzer rn

[shadow tangle]

like reso?

[onyx sorrel]

Most notibly trickster

not even a single mythic or anything just the whole archtype

[placid badger]

It's just smoke spam being in the game

[shadow tangle]

doesnt trickster do like 5m+ bursts?

[onyx sorrel]

That too, doesn't it get like a million dps with heals and overhealth?

[slow ether]

a million dps is kinda exaggerating since thats really only war reso

[onyx sorrel]

My trickster build uses bamboozle spin and I get up to 400k

[slow ether]

where wars should not be considered in balancing, and instead wars should be adjusted if there are balancing changes that make it too easy/hard

[onyx sorrel]

Still a ton for having decent ehp and crazy buffs and overhealth and healing

[rocky spoke]

there are bigger problems than divzer

names something that isn't an item

[onyx sorrel]

If you want an item then cata can get millions of dps

basically the divzer of assassin

[ruby frost]

is that specifically cataclysm's problem though

[rocky spoke]

do we fr think cata as an item is too strong

[graceful olive]

no

[rocky spoke]

rhetorical question

[onyx sorrel]

My point is that there are other builds out there that get far more dps so why are we nerfing divzer

[slow ether]

try to regress ehp and dps of builds within the same archetype and see whether they are an outlier on the line

[onyx sorrel]

Maybe buff other archer mythics so they can be viable too

[slow ether]

it should give you the most intuitive and visible results as to whats overtuned in terms of purely items since we are holding AT as a constant factor when we look at item balancing (unless major id)

[junior schooner]

https://tenor.com/view/fig-gif-26092737

[glad needle]

How to fix divzer: make it finite

[slow ether]

also item-wise you also gotta consider what happens after you buff all other archer mythics which is that non-mythics get left in the dust and there will not be AT buffs for archer itself

if archer is too weak, you should buff archer’s ability, not all of its items

[hearty onyx]

KEEP NERFING DIVZER!!!

[placid badger]

No it's the tree

[slow ether]

like you gotta separate item and AT balancing (with a few exceptions but you should be able to tell when you should consider AT) if its not about major ids

[onyx sorrel]

maybe buff archer and nerf divzer then

Divzer stays around the same and all archer items get better

[hearty onyx]

literally exactly what happened

except divzer doubled in damage and people are still upset

[onyx sorrel]

Last two patches nerfed divzer and archer

[hearty onyx]

and

[slow ether]

last 2 patches are adjustments to an extremely huge buff

[hearty onyx]

constructive feedback cannot be real 😭

[onyx sorrel]

So do you guys want divzer nerfed again(genuine question)

[junior schooner]

These are the inventors

[glad needle]

Perhaps the buff was over tuned?

[atomic garden]

this thread is giving me brain dmg fr

[rocky spoke]

🫩

[hearty onyx]

i believe archer as a whole is still not as strong as it should be honestly

trying to make a functional nonmythic noncrafted build is like not really possible

[slow ether]

compared to a month ago bolt gained like 2x dps and divzer only gained 1.5x so its a buff to everything just that divz is buffed to a lesser extent (note: numbers pulled from my ass, but you get my point here)

[hearty onyx]

except bum ass trapper

[shadow tangle]

also unless your name is ignis

[junior schooner]

Herald of ruin nuclear emesis op

[hearty onyx]

to be fair

[atomic garden]

bro

[shadow tangle]

seriously ignis gets screwed over heavily which is sad

[hearty onyx]

ignis was genuinely getting sub 100k dps and now it’s 200

with my shitty ass qc resurgence build

[slow ether]

ok well some bows are not in a reasonable position in terms of either power or theming but they have been a problem long existed before bolt rework

[shadow tangle]

also alturism is weird and you have to constantly be swapping to proc it reasonbly

[slow ether]

which shouldnt be really accounted for when balancing divzer because yknow, those bows have their own problems

[shadow tangle]

much easier to use on big mac

[hearty onyx]

ignis is low key only like that due to its history of being like insanely op with old courage and old endurance

[shadow tangle]

at least give ignis 900 base dps or something

[onyx sorrel]

200k dps, amazing

[hearty onyx]

to be fair

[idle obsidian]

Yeah that's pretty good

[hearty onyx]

i am literally running quilted carapace and resurgence

[idle obsidian]

On a fire tank bow with altruism

[hearty onyx]

two of like the worst items in this game for damage

[glad needle]

Last I heard archers have no hpr

[nimble tide]

guys why is this thread actually active

[idle obsidian]

The hpr on the bow in question:
(But yeah that's somewhat real)

[hearty onyx]

hpr isn’t a stat native to a class????

[atomic garden]

200k dps with like 60k ehp and 2k hpr ticks is pretty good yeah

[hearty onyx]

if you build hpr you have it if you don’t you don’t it’s not like archer gets an hpr penalty

[atomic garden]

ehp is just not needed for anything

[tall heart]

hm

[glad needle]

Every acceptable build for archer hates HPR

GMA is an example

[onyx sorrel]

Not needed if ur perfect at the game

[hearty onyx]

what does acceptable even mean

[tall heart]

erm its almost like gma has -hpr

[slow ether]

if you go all out on dmg obviously you are not getting hpr 😭

[glad needle]

Idk I asked for a bolt build and I got told Spring and GMA

[atomic garden]

ok ehp over 30k is not needed if you have functioning eyeballs

[hearty onyx]

ok and what about it

[tall heart]

spring has hpr usually...

[hearty onyx]

spring you can build ewf and get some hpr

[tall heart]

also you can just use ... hpr tomes

[hearty onyx]

i’m pretty sure ewf is pretty good people just love agi for some reason

[slow ether]

item balancing would blow up if you are able to get everything in the same build and since meta values dps a shit ton rn you wont really see “acceptable” archer builds with good hpr or beefy ehp

[onyx sorrel]

have you ever died with a build over 30k ehp?

[glad needle]

By no hpr I mean I have to cancel -hpr to get the build to function, meaning I have to sustain on potions

[atomic garden]

bruh what is the point you are trying to make

[hearty onyx]

you are specifically talking about a weapon whose entire gimmick is to have negative hpr

it is literally the entire point of the weapon is to have negative hpr for rage

[onyx sorrel]

That ehp is useful, please don't avoid the question

[atomic garden]

i am just saying that due to the current state of raids and other endgame content (outside of wars) lots of ehp is not necessary

[kindred glade]

mrrrp

[hearty onyx]

no kidding the weapon with purposefully uncancelable high negative hpr has negative hpr

[low loom]

nex literally every build that isn't mac or has a heal spell doesnt have self sustain

[hearty onyx]

except for nethers scar builds but you cant go bolt

[slow ether]

ehp is personal preference i dont think someone should be judged for wanting to play at higher ehp as long as they find that more fun tbf, whether ehp is necessary is on a personal basis

[low loom]

95% of builds sustain off of potions and not hpr

[onyx sorrel]

If ur a pro and ur in a meta party, it's not, but it helps for players who aren't as good at the game or are new to it

I see people die all the time with builds far over 30k ehp

[low loom]

i thinkwe had this convo yesterday as well

[glad needle]

That just sounds like very uncomfortable gameplay

Which I wanted to avoid, but this discussion is making it feel more hopeless to play bolt

[low loom]

tbf its mostly agi fail

[onyx sorrel]

People say divzer is hard to play but I rarely see a divzer actually survive a full run

[shadow tangle]

generally speaking people just don't get hit

[slow ether]

then just run a hpr build and sacrifice some dmg

[low loom]

how? potions are 1500hp/s, which is more hpr than any build that isn't bmac

[shadow tangle]

for example I run ambulance warrior

[slow ether]

im like fairly sure you can run ewf spring and get like 300k dps while being practically unkillable if you are careful

[low loom]

you can already run ewa spring and get more dps with 35k ehp

[shadow tangle]

thats got like
100k ehp, 10k+ hpr

[hearty onyx]

https://wynnbuilder.github.io/builder/#CM0t01-CCF1rJGoDIk156ypXkcHEuJ0+NTVOUKRJ0

Wynnbuilder build:
Dwindled Knowledge
Time Rift
Elder Oak Roots
Gaea-Hewn Boots
Yang
Yang
Diamond Hydro Bracelet
Xebec
Spring [w6w6w6]

[shadow tangle]

oh and it gives it to the entire team as well

[onyx sorrel]

Being unkillable is a pretty big deal

[slow ether]

yeah im just saying ewf cuz they do want hpr i assume

[hearty onyx]

dwindled slop warning

[low loom]

playing arch and wanting a significant amount of hpr is just not possible without sacrificing either a shit ton of damage or a shit ton of qol

[hearty onyx]

aphotic probably works too

[onyx sorrel]

I'd trade 100 or 200k dps on divzer to be almost unkillable in most situations

[hearty onyx]

but im a hater of that item

[onyx sorrel]

Unless I was trying to break a dps record or smth

[shadow tangle]

when divzers downsides matter they matter so hard

[slow ether]

well yeah thats a really basic trade-off for item usages, obviously you dont deserve high dps if you build so much hpr

[low loom]

the 200k dps kill aura built into bolt:

[shadow tangle]

this is why divzer is generally kinda bad in pfinder, but amazing in pre made teams
its the casual vs competitive problem

[slow ether]

but what im saying here is that he can make a good hpr build while still getting useable dmg instead of viewing the whole situation as hopeless

[onyx sorrel]

Swarms and projectiles

[low loom]

the wasd keys on the keyboard:

[hearty onyx]

ngl we can go way back for somel ike resurgence spring shit
https://wynnbuilder.github.io/builder/#CM0620-CWc0sQGoDIk156mlXkcHE120+NTVOUKRJ0

Wynnbuilder build:
Aphotic
Time Rift
Water Sanctuary
Resurgence
Yang
Yang
Diamond Hydro Bracelet
Metamorphosis
Spring [w6w6w6]
if you really wanna turn brain off

honestly that does not look half bad

[onyx sorrel]

if you play divzer I'm sure you've died before

[low loom]

it's not as glassy as it looks on paper or how people say it is

[slow ether]

if you are willing to sacrifice like 200k dps for more ehp then you can run spring instead, the choice is yours here anyway

[idle obsidian]

polar spring watel

[onyx sorrel]

Have you tho

[low loom]

yes!

[onyx sorrel]

Almost no build has less ehp

[hearty onyx]

people die on burger does that mean the build is not stupid ehp

[slow ether]

ehp is not the only determinant of survivability

[hearty onyx]

what the fuck is this reasoning of "its not that hard to not die on divzer" --> "well have you ever died on divzer 🤓"

[kindred glade]

ws

[hearty onyx]

constructive feedback

[slow ether]

you are gonna die more on a 20k ehp statue trick build than on a 10k ehp delirium archer build

[low loom]

i would argue that with arrow shield or 200k dps kill aura gangles div is actually not hte most squishy build

[idle obsidian]

This thread has -1186/3s Braincells what the fuck

Stop talking already this is not healthy

[slow ether]

in fact dps is a part of your survivability because being able to kill mobs faster mean less exposure to risk

[hearty onyx]

keep nerfing divzer.....................

[slow ether]

hence why divzer is actually less risky than most people who havent tried divzer think it is

[glad needle]

Perhaps the learning curve is rough?

[onyx sorrel]

Other classes also kill things before they get to them

[low loom]

also psure that lowhp roll bbath has less ehp than div

[shadow tangle]

divzer intimidating

[echo mountain]

https://tenor.com/view/clash-royale-clash-of-clans-goblin-green-wah-wah-wah-gif-2173721757992636770

[low loom]

while also being harder and having less ws (if you have frenyzy aspect)

[hearty onyx]

im ngl divzer is a test of how good you are at movement

[slow ether]

im gonna be really honest here, try the builds before you comment on the builds themselves

[hearty onyx]

how well you can wasd not really much else

its not a really mechanically intensive playstyle outside of fundamentals of the game

[echo mountain]

bro this is nexstargaze we are talking about

strongest cf derailer of history (foxxochan) vs strongest cf derailer of today (nexstargaze)

[shadow tangle]

I genuinely believe next is sincere

[onyx sorrel]

I have

[slow ether]

no amount of theory and calculation can match actual game experience

[hearty onyx]

im ngl bolt actually has fallen syndrome now

where its like fake glass because you one shot everything that comes near you

[slow ether]

it does yeah fucking axon gets nuked before it can do any attack 😭

[onyx sorrel]

What percentage of runs do you die on as divzer?

[hearty onyx]

but if you dont have the fundamental skills to back it up it feels really shit

like less than 5%

[thorny shoal]

erm it doesnt really now in graids can you revert the divzer nerf please

[hearty onyx]

idk how do i quantify that

[onyx sorrel]

rough estimate

[junior schooner]

Dies in 0.25 more zeptaseconds

[low loom]

generalist (especially bbath) fallen is actually pretty hard though, upperscream is not

[slow ether]

you dont need to quantify it this is subjective in the very first place

[hearty onyx]

i think generalist is fake hard idk

just takes like a bit longer to get used to i dont think its particularly mechanically challenging

[slow ether]

on pf or in sweat parties because it matters a lot

death rate is a useless measure since you may play like a coward or go all in in hopes of getting a new pb every raid

[low loom]

it takes a solid amount of runs to build the muscle memory for the cycle, which is hard to focus on (especially if you aren't solid w it) while dodging.

either die from focusing on cycle becuase you don't dodge as well or lose all your hp from fucking up cycle and spending al of it on uppercut

[hearty onyx]

i guess what i mean is fake hard = high skill floor not too much higher skiill ceiling

[onyx sorrel]

It took me like 10 onol runs to not die at all in the raid, so ig I have a skill issue

[thorny shoal]

yeah you are playing divzer in nol

[hearty onyx]

yeah well i have like 2300 runs on nol so i dont really die on it in nol so there is not really a comparison to be made here

[low loom]

what classes have a really really high ceiling besides like shade and trick

[onyx sorrel]

ig ur average player

[hearty onyx]

bmonk acro and thats about it

[echo mountain]

take off trick

[onyx sorrel]

Does trick rly have a high skill ceiling

[thorny shoal]

wise is not average 😭

[hearty onyx]

yeah i actually think trick is just skill floor

[junior schooner]

Does trick really have a high skill ceiling

[echo mountain]

and probably shade as well now that i think about it

[junior schooner]

Lets be honest here

[hearty onyx]

wisedrag "average player"

[onyx sorrel]

I just spam a few spells and get crazy dps

[slow ether]

average isnt really well-defined you shouldnt really quantify something that is based on the person itself

[low loom]

difference between blaides/wintel/noot and 50 hour shade player is night and day

[hearty onyx]

glaze me please i also play shade

[thorny shoal]

nope

[junior schooner]

Glazenomics going on rn

[hearty onyx]

dang

[low loom]

those were just the first shade players that came to mind 😭

[hearty onyx]

wintel pnot baldies zamn members 🤢 t

[junior schooner]

Why do you have this on deck

[onyx sorrel]

Divzer isn't as hard as I thought when I got it but it is still hard for me at least

[hearty onyx]

im in game king i just /ri him

[junior schooner]

Ohh type shit

[hearty onyx]

wynnmod is great

[junior schooner]

My fault original gangster i didnt know you were on

[hearty onyx]

i forgive you lets graid with pnoot he needs tnaers

[rocky spoke]

whats mine

[junior schooner]

Studying

[hearty onyx]

holy noob..

ur opinion is thrown out in cosntructive feedback

[rocky spoke]

this is so sad

[thorny shoal]

what are the gambits today

[junior schooner]

Noobertson

[slow ether]

easy apparently

[hearty onyx]

semi playable

[low loom]

🔸 Anemic
🔸 Hemophiliac
🔸 Foreseen Swordsman
🔸 Arcane Incontinent

[shadow tangle]

whats mine

[hearty onyx]

no... nerf anemic.......

[onyx sorrel]

Well I gtg, thanks for talking

[echo mountain]

pee pee poo poo

[tall heart]

less than 2k hours wtf

[glad needle]

After my experience in grind spots with bolt

Yeah you're right

[onyx sorrel]

Have a good day(or night)(Yeah I know I won't be missed lol)

[hearty onyx]

byebye

[placid badger]

I have like 1k...

[shadow tangle]

how do I have the least tna raids

[hearty onyx]

i have 6.3k hours 😐

[slow ether]

lock in buddy you are not allowed to sleep until you do 100 tna runs in this session

[hearty onyx]

your opinion is invalid until you have 1k all raids

[scenic goblet]

Nerd

[hearty onyx]

SHUT UP I HATE YOU

[scenic goblet]

[shadow tangle]

somehow I think that have noobs opinions are actually a good thing they have a different perspective

[slow ether]

it is good yeah

[rocky spoke]

how can someone be more nooby than me I thought mods and ct didn't play the game im literally both

[kindred glade]

highkey based

[slow ether]

you deserve to express your opinions on stuff as long as you have at least tried something once

[hearty onyx]

no... only 10k hour 23k radiers allowed to have opinion about gma eblaance

im close... i just need to keep grinding

[shadow tangle]

if we well
only balanced around the top 1% wynncraft would be unplayable

[hearty onyx]

yeah but like imo divzer is a 1% item and people are complainign that its hard to play

[shadow tangle]

John noob would walk into a raid, face a 10m hp groot at l54, and then never do raids again

[low loom]

^^^ theres also the problem that arch was being balanced around div and not arch

[rocky spoke]

this literally like it's supposed to be one of the hardest items to pilot spellsteal + no ehp

[glad needle]

What are the alternatives again? Spring and Ignis?

[low loom]

spring and gma

[hearty onyx]

dont ignis

[glad needle]

What about in Legendary?

[low loom]

gales force?? idk play a mythic

[hearty onyx]

nonmythic pool you have genuinely nothing

[glad needle]

Fabled?

[slow ether]

ewa spring is really nice if you want a starter option that is tanky and chill

[hearty onyx]

actually i think hive bow is ok

[slow ether]

ttide is fine as well iirc

[glad needle]

There it is

A barrier to entry

[shadow tangle]

if this is the situation we are cooked bow wise

[low loom]

just use pots

[hearty onyx]

.

[shadow tangle]

then again hive spear does have like 600 base post powder

[thorny shoal]

nothing burger nerf 👍

[hearty onyx]

@glad needle

its like barely a barrier to entry im ngl its good enough

[echo mountain]

but titano qc ignis bro

[tall heart]

??????????

[echo mountain]

even tho transcendance got nerfed 😹

[glad needle]

God... Why'd you remind me that I have to do Qira on my second archer... ;-;

[rocky spoke]

asking sweats for nonmythic options is like asking a billionaire what type of bike u should get unless it's someone like yygamer people just don't know

[tall heart]

and i consider myself someone with low playtime and im at like 3.6k

[slow ether]

also you can use song of solitude on bolt and it probably wont even be bad

[low loom]

uhhhhh... 🤔 desperate facimile 💡

[hearty onyx]

is qira even that bad she blows up to like any raid build

[rocky spoke]

u also blow up tho sometimes

[echo mountain]

she's bad depending on the people you ask

[slow ether]

qira can be annoying especially fire hive

its kinda bullshit sometimes

[echo mountain]

figuratively speaking

[hearty onyx]

yeah but its just holdover from ehp check if you kind of know what she does its not so bad

[slow ether]

and the mechanics arent really explained in the game properly so people get frustrated which is fair

[rocky spoke]

qira is probably better off fighting with a build with some survivability because old spells are much harder to play around

old mob spells

[echo mountain]

heavy charge chains some bull shit tho

and teleport blindness

[rocky spoke]

cleansing breeze lightbulb

[slow ether]

anyway if you dont want to go hive just buy a song of solitude and substitute it in a spring bolt build it probably works

[rocky spoke]

air in a can is also probably neat

[slow ether]

o true air in a can is solid with the spell cost

[glad needle]

That's a weapon name?!

[slow ether]

yeah there are quite a few cool bows for non-mythic

[rocky spoke]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/977560455893635102/1139852606315954176/IMG_20230811_184751.gif

contents under pressure (me)

[slow ether]

non-mythic bow for modern bolt is also like an unexplored territory so you can probably play around with different stuff

[rocky spoke]

the world if the eo bow had a real damage value

the evolved is cool and all but dated now ☹️

[echo mountain]

if you think about it the tna bow is basically ignis

the set item

[rocky spoke]

yeah duat used recursion a ton

really good base I think

[slow ether]

you can also try freedom but consult duat for that idk how to build freedom these days (maybe paracausal has some insane play?)

[hearty onyx]

morph freedom 🔥

[rocky spoke]

ask duat for a build and he sends u dawnbreak future shock freedom

[placid badger]

Deadass just play depressing bow in nol ong

Wait nvm that doesnt have powder fuck

[civic dawn]

toxoplasmosised

[rocky spoke]

should give it frenetic spirit and make it a giga eledef shred bow

[hearty onyx]

im ngl this ewf spring build works just fine idk

[slow ether]

im trying so hard building non-cr freedom rn and i just get mogged by the spring build everytime 😭

[echo mountain]

has anyone ever used watchman for its 65% water spell

[hearty onyx]

this is like

i dont even see how this is bad

[slow ether]

yeah that spring build is actually so good

[hearty onyx]

this is genuinely just old bolt divzer damage and triple the ehp

resurgence finally has a use..

[hearty onyx]

nvm resurgence mogged by gaea hewn boots
https://wynnbuilder.github.io/builder/#CM0t01-CCF1rJGoD6e056mlXkcHEeJ0+NTVOUKRJ0

Wynnbuilder build:
Dwindled Knowledge
Time Rift
Elder Oak Roots
Gaea-Hewn Boots
Yang
Moon Pool Circlet
Diamond Hydro Bracelet
Metamorphosis
Spring [w6w6w6]

@glad needle if you wanna try bolt try this build

if dwindled too expensive go like
https://wynnbuilder.github.io/builder/#CM0620-CCF1rJGoD6e056kmWkcHEOG0+NTVOUKRJ0

Wynnbuilder build:
Aphotic
Time Rift
Elder Oak Roots
Gaea-Hewn Boots
Yang
Moon Pool Circlet
Diamond Hydro Bracelet
Diamond Hydro Necklace
Spring [w6w6w6]

lotta decent options with hpr

[kindred forum]

Are other classes even getting close to this?

[thorny shoal]

assassin

[echo mountain]

is this with or without gimmicks

[thorny shoal]

idk how do you define one

[echo mountain]

so lets say this one dagger has a lot of damage without any gimmicks

[hearty onyx]

more than half of archers dps is single target

also summoner is higher

[echo mountain]

summoner gets 700k?

[hearty onyx]

yeah

[echo mountain]

is this etw hadal or some shit

[hearty onyx]

yeah

you have 5k ehp

[odd bison]

Puppet bomber maybe

[hearty onyx]

no

[echo mountain]

pbomber dont even get that much

[odd bison]

Aura spam?

I heard aura spam hadal gets 1m dps or something

[kindred forum]

Does it only work on one raid (tcc)

[hearty onyx]

nah you can make it work in every raid

[odd bison]

Earlier in the thread people said that cata, GMA and grimtrap outdps divzer right now

[echo mountain]

how we using cata in notg

is cata trick really dat good

[kindred forum]

is weath trick good or should I js go shade

[thorny shoal]

pre bomb set up and spam dash

[hearty onyx]

basically how you set up traps in notg except you are the trap

oops wrong message my bad

@echo mountain ^

[vapid fable]

it does

but thats just in tcc, other places more like 800k

[onyx sorrel]

800k is still more than divzer

Shaman is kinda goated rn

So many viable options

Shaman and assassin are both broken rn, compared to other classes they have pretty much everything you need.

[hearty onyx]

shaman summoner doesnt have 110 walk speed printer and speed 3

and it also literally has like 5k ehp

[tame oar]

Address cata gng
Ts is 1.7m

Also summoner free sustain Bruh

[onyx sorrel]

I'm pretty sure reso gets more than divzer and reso also is crazy support with better ehp

[hearty onyx]

we just makin numbers up now or what

[hearty onyx]

yeah but like idk kind of disingenuous to say cata is the same as divzer since its burst

[tame oar]

it bursts 3m sir

[hearty onyx]

yeah and its not sustainable

[tame oar]

1.7m is average across the tcc fight

@drowsy yarrow you do this no

[hearty onyx]

its trickster 😭

boss moves and ur damage is cut in half

[tame oar]

gang i was hitting 1.2m on divz before this patch im now hitting 830k

thats a big nerf

[hearty onyx]

yeah and its deserved

[tame oar]

twin this is on a war tower just btw-

[tall heart]

ok and its still more than the like 350k before bolt buff

[hearty onyx]

are you bomb stacking

[tame oar]

before buff i was hitting 750k on it sir

[tall heart]

ok and im pretty sure 830k is more than 750k

[onyx sorrel]

idk I heard shatter reso gets a lot

[tame oar]

sir it should have been a lot more

[hearty onyx]

honestly i couldnt care less about war meta atp they gave up on it a long time ago

[tall heart]

no 😊

[hearty onyx]

no use malding about an abandoned gamemode because they cant be asked to do anything

[tame oar]

yes
making us use a 70stx weapon just do do wars is fucking insane

[tall heart]

is reso that much

[hearty onyx]

just say u broke twin

[tall heart]

6 7

[hearty onyx]

obli used to be 26 stacks in 1.20 way before lootrun/raids update and money was worth like 4x it is now

[tall heart]

dawg everything was actually worth something before lootrun update, you cant mention much about that

[hearty onyx]

yeah but barrier to entry is always somethign with war weapons

[tall heart]

the cheapest mythics were like 5-8stx if they were actually usable and not red/low yellow

[tame oar]

you want a war reso yeah

[hearty onyx]

any reso is a war reso

[tall heart]

ok skill issue should have bought reso on week 1 of 2.1

[hearty onyx]

the only 8important stat is the major id

[tall heart]

my reso was 18stx 😊

[tame oar]

i have a reso already, #2 mainscale

[tame oar]

ele dmg in question

[hearty onyx]

it doesnt matter 😭 consumables arel ike 300% the difference between a high and mid roll is not that much

[tame oar]

ehhhh fair but more dmg!

[hearty onyx]

hardest part of war isnt the actual damage or execution its logging 5 players

[tame oar]

that is so true 😭

[kindred forum]

people have exaggerated reso numbers since the dawn of time

then you ask them and they havent touched the weapon before

[tall heart]

what if they touched the weapon but play like the guy i met in early 2.1 in notg who first time he played reso asked me to heal him as immolation and when he realised i literally cant he left the raid

[onyx sorrel]

I’ve seen videos of ppl getting like 700-800k

[spark kite]

but thats pretty much just trickster and not cata

[tame oar]

true

nerf trick when???

[kindred forum]

link

[dry lintel]

actually 700-800k is accurate but thats burst

so not really fair as an indicator of dps

[onyx sorrel]

It was like a sugvon video or smth

[onyx sorrel]

Burst is almost as good as sustain for most bosses

[hearty onyx]

the sugvon video is outdated

[onyx sorrel]

If you can burst to next phase

[hearty onyx]

pre reso nerf

[onyx sorrel]

Reso nerf was like a 20% nerf correct?

Still like 600-700k with heals and overhealth and much better ehp

[hearty onyx]

i dont think anything should be compared to acolyte

especially not reso

[onyx sorrel]

Trickster is another example but u probably don’t want to compare to that either

[hearty onyx]

bolt is so much easier to pilot than both reso and trickster

[onyx sorrel]

Bolt is harder for me

Trickster is just spam spells in a general direction

[tame oar]

u gotta be joking

[hearty onyx]

im not

[tame oar]

u just spam beam and ec on reso

[onyx sorrel]

Trickster is basically unkillable

[hearty onyx]

mechanically its so much more intensive on shatter reso

[kindred forum]

new reso is pretty easy