Lootruns are an inefficient time sponge that are worth nothing more often than not.

[vestal solar]

Upon my return I recall one of the things I wasn't too fond of about the endgame of 2.0 was that obtaining items for the endgame was a tough task to manage due to the sheer forced necessity for time dedication to obtain the emeralds needed to afford items.

I was interested in how 2.1.2 essentially made it significantly easier to earn mythics. I liked how much more streamlined Raids became...

But then I had to try the lootrun as per the suggestions of other people and... It was rough.

Long story short, I eventually earned Grandmaster rank and got access to rainbow beacons, only to find so many issues:

• My runs needed to be long for more pulls (eventually)
• My build needed to be able to withstand and dish out the damage the content needed
• I need to be distinctly lucky and efficient to ensure I make money
• Target only Mythics in the end reward chests and reroll in hopes of getting a mythic

The sheer luck and time I spend in these lootruns are beyond unsatisfactory because the time needed to be spent here is not something I'm comfortable with, and the luck from this content has been so poor the only Mythics I've pulled from these lootruns ever since I started playing again in June is 1 Corkian Simulator, 1 Az, and 1 Nullification.

I just don't think this is a very well designed piece of endgame content as a grown adult with a soul-draining 9-5 looking to play and earn some useful items for what are supposed to be "fun" battles and endgame content.

**Genuinely, if this content simply gave you as much as 32EB-1 LE per Challenge completed I honestly think this would improve the payout of lootrunning tenfold and make the ridiculous nature of poor gambling addictions less prevalent. **

The amount of times I looked at 10+ LE and got told to reroll it for a mythic is ridiculous. I've also walked away from the end chests with sacrifices that don't mean anything other than MORE time spent in a lootrun that I need to do is just debilitating.

I want to like lootruns but it doesn't respect anyone's time or my patience, and needs to be looked into to become a less gambly way to play endgame content.

[harsh oxide]

Issue #1: (long runs)
This was the point of trials, to encourge longer runs instead of shorter ones. I think they succeeded on this point and i don't really think this is a problem?

Issue #2 (builds need to withstand and dish out damage the content needs)
I think this might be a you issue? Having to deal with the scaling is part of the challenge of lootruns

Issue #3 and 4: (need to be lucky and efficient to ensure you make money/target mythics)

I somewhat agree with this actually, needing to go mythic or nothing can feel demorizling as there's rarely stuff under it worth going for
but getting 32eb-1le per challenge is ridculous and would be broken 😭
Now getting an increasing emerald reward per challenge wouldn't be a bad idea (1eb at challenge 1, going up to like 20eb near challenge 100?)
This is also why on weeks with bad lootpools, i just do boxed mythic runs since i'll get a good payout even if I get unlucky...

also i'd argue sacrifices prevent time from being "wasted"
the idea of not getting lucky but being able to convert a good amount of your pulls for next run is amazing

[vestal solar]

When I sac I end up sacrificing a terrible pull, that's now going to show up in the end chest for the next run

[red pivot]

uhh saccing just grants your next chest raw pulls it doesnt transfer the actual rewards you got over

[vestal solar]

...so then all the pulls were just bad when I have a sacced chest?

[harsh oxide]

or you wanted to go for a specific mythic and didn't get it

[vestal solar]

Well I mean I just wanted A mythic

[harsh oxide]

yeah
this is what we call being unlucky

[vestal solar]

The issue is the only ones I got (minus the simu) were worth nothing anyways

[harsh oxide]

sacs prevent that time from being totally wasted

[vestal solar]

But then I have to do another run

[harsh oxide]

yeah thats the point

[vestal solar]

The runs take 30+ minutes to complete with an aqua stacked white... That can't be normal for content

[harsh oxide]

yeah thats about normal

im doing around a challenge per minute on my 100 challenge runs

that includes travel time by the way

now that is about 90-100 minutes, and it's worth noting that you do NOT have to do it all in one go. You can /class out and pick the lr up again

[vestal solar]

Does make me glad I made a second warrior in that case

I don't like leaving my only class trapped in a lootrun

[gaunt valley]

https://tenor.com/view/cheeseburger-stacked-burger-tower-tall-big-gif-5715233482568075672

[vestal solar]

...

[arctic forge]

Just raid

[harsh oxide]

the trolls have arrived, don't pay attention to them

[arctic forge]

U were the first msg tho

[harsh oxide]

i lootrun quite a bit

got 5 boxed mythics today

[vestal solar]

How

[gaunt valley]

Nex I swear ur in this servers vc like 10 hours a day how do u still not know to to lootrun

[vestal solar]

Because I get guided by other players, and Everytime I tell people what I do they say it's wrong and to try this strat instead

[harsh oxide]

boxed mythics are generally pretty rare
using a combination of missions called jester's trick (every time you get 20 items in a chest, get either 3 pulls, 1 curse, 1 boon, or 30s)
and interest scheme (your next yellow beacon gives +1 flying chest for every 2 pulls you get, caps at 12 extra), you can use this to get many, many flying chests

[arctic forge]

U gotta have a good show on ur 2nd monitor is step 1

[harsh oxide]

to help this, you run discoverer (mythic chestplate that gives up to 200% loot bonus) and a offhand weapon (gives up to 12% loot quality and ~60% loot bonus)

the combination of all of this, along with the big amount of flying chests you get means you'll probably see at least 1 boxed mythic over 100 challenges, helping by the random loot quality boons you get (hopefully)

[gaunt valley]

Then maybe you should try their strat

Instead of trying to make a square peg fit in a circular hole

[vestal solar]

It's not just trying their strat

It's that I'm trying multiple strats that I still don't fully understand how they work

[gaunt valley]

https://tenor.com/view/cheeseburger-stacked-burger-tower-tall-big-gif-5715233482568075672

[harsh oxide]

Assuming you have a mage, you could try
https://youtu.be/odphjb6CRtQ
Cheapest SIngu is 1.5 stacks, but you can run cascade and it'll still work

[hushed fjord]

wait I have a 9-5

[vestal solar]

Unfortunately due to having a negative bias towards mage prior to the lootrun update, I have fully avoided mage

[hushed fjord]

You won the whole game, before connecting to play.wynncraft.com you needa hit store.wynncraft.com

[harsh oxide]

What class are you lootrunning with?

[vestal solar]

Warrior: Fallen Hero + Offhand Idol

[harsh oxide]

you're fine there

[vestal solar]

I wish I could say the same...

It doesn't feel like it works correctly

[harsh oxide]

i don't really have a reference for that (i lootrun with mage)

[arctic forge]

Please stop leaking my strat 😠

[zealous nimbus]

I think the idea of an emerald payout per completed challenge is interesting, but I think there is also value in putting these rewards in something that requires more strategy to build up a lot, like the end chest. Do you have any other suggestions that could help fix what you have issues with?

[vestal solar]

At this point I don't think there's much more I can suggest other than borderline-guaranteed payout because I've had end reward chests that paid me less than 1 LE while I struggled on 24 challenges

[arctic forge]

Waiter waiter more emerald printers!

[zealous nimbus]

this would also be a thing yeah. if we ever did do this we'd obviously remove/extremely reduce LE from the end chest, which I think would be kinda lame and would have to be replaced by smthn else

[red pivot]

tbh i never really take a chest that doesnt have a mythic unless the le is greater than a stack

[zealous nimbus]

Unless you fail the LR (end without completing 4 challenges), the End chest always pays out something. Whether that something is enough for the effort is random to an extent, but more pulls = better odds at a good payout, so its within the players control

[arctic forge]

Way I see it is raids are the 9-5 where u get ur liquid money and lootruns are like scratch offs but with abit of strategy and u win like weird shit that u in turn sell for liquid

[red pivot]

crazy to refer to raids as a 9-5

[zealous nimbus]

yeah i see it similarly, raids are more consistent LE while Lootruns are higher risk higher reward

[tulip spire]

My build needed to be able to withstand and dish out the damage the content needed
sir, i've ran acrobat manna in the silent expanse when the lootrunning update came out up until i got myself a warp at late 2.0.something during a price crash
if your build cant survive, run a tankier build or run lower level areas
or just take more boons, have MIDs to help you survive (like Greed)
and damage isnt even that important, you can take forever per challenge and still be perfectly fine on time

[arctic forge]

I mean it's consistent rates considering 90% Wingate and like okish times which eventually u can convert to an le per hour. U can't really say same for lr it's abit more hectic sometimes u get more sometimes less ig u can avg it tho

[red pivot]

^ you can lootrun on wfa paladin and with the right boons you can still perform

[red pivot]

yeah i get what youre saying, its just i kinda dislike referring to it like a job

[arctic forge]

If u irl trade then it can be (which u shouldn't do)

[vestal solar]

My main goal was "guaranteed non-rng payout at 12 challenges minimum" so that you put the base (early rank) effort in and get paid for it, it's shallow and not well thought out, but it is an idea that doesn't break the current balance of lootruns

I just want it to be a supportive money-making endgame activity like Raids

[red pivot]

i do like that, where they money gained would be somewhat concentrated near the start and de incentivised towards the end

[arctic forge]

Then just raid

[tulip spire]

but that kinda goes against what lootruns have always been

[vestal solar]

it's rare I walk away from a completed raid with less than 1LE

[tulip spire]

it's always been a gamble, you either go out with nothing or with a mythic (or several) and the updates only made mythics more and more common

you can also pause lootruns half way through (or whenever you want) and continue another day

[vestal solar]

Having all that effort for a glorified lottery ticket pull doesn't actually sound like something any game would do (and I can imagine I'd be proven wrong, easily)

[tulip spire]

i'm pretty sure every mmorpg does that

that's why raids and the outer void exist, as a stable (somewhat stable when it comes to the outer void) source of money

especially guild raids that make significantly more than normal raids

[noble turtle]

Then dont lootrun?

[soft abyss]

how many lootruns did u do in total

[arctic forge]

Like 4 👉 👈

[vestal solar]

not 1 LE

Spent an hour in this

Sacced so now I have to spend ANOTHER hour hoping that I make more than 1 LE in 2 hours

This is why I mainly suggested a guaranteed payout

I did not toil with Fallen Hero + Offhand Idol for an hour just to get 40EB

If I wanted 40EB I'd do a quest

[dusk patio]

how in the world are you spending 1 hour on a <30 chall lootrun

that is over 2 minutes per challenge

[harsh oxide]

what in the world

for reference, here's a 100 (99) challenge lootrun i JUST finished

[vestal solar]

I made it to 26 challenges, took a Crimson beacon and there was a trial that APPARENTLY sets my time to 1 minute but I need to open 25 chests, so unknowingly I spent that whole minute trying to open chests, and the lootrun instantly ended

[harsh oxide]

oh yeah side hustle is rough

[harsh oxide]

for reference, here's what i got on that run

this is where sacrifices come into play!

[zealous nimbus]

Did you not see what the trial did?

[noble turtle]

You should aim to just be a little quicker

[dusk patio]

extremely "casual" lootrunning pace is like 1 min 20 per challenge

even on shaman I can easily get <1 min per challenge in SE so idrk what's causing your runs to go this slowly

[harsh oxide]

yeah i think a problem is your speed 😭

[dusk patio]

are you walking between challenges with an empty hand

I think even if I walked between challenges while mainhanding hero, I'd have better time efficiency 😭

[pale kayak]

smth is wrong with your speed

is it a build problem? cause you mentioned running with offhand idol so it can't be that you spent most of the time traveling to challenges

[hallow ridge]

@vestal solar as said during BETA a month ago, lootruns are now not for casual players, lootruns now have a very long learning curve

raids can generate at least half the LE (if not slightly more) as lootruns can, and they are consistent and always the same

[magic tundra]

itd be nice if le from rewards was increased or sormthing. basically no reason to take non mythic chest other than if you have no sacs

[hallow ridge]

lootrun is very high skill ceiling and high learning curve content

and once you learn it, its not really a gamble, you hardly ever go a run without a mythic

I really like getting 30-60 LE from end reward chest, on top of the mythic, it feels like a really nice bonus

I'd hate getting rewarded for each challenge I do, that would be very boring and stuff.

challenges should take 30-60 sec each (or less in some cases), so you are just doing something wrong (weak build, bad archetype etc)

[dusk patio]

longest challenge besides steamworks is probably something like graveyard of the thousand and that shouldn't be taking you more than a minute 30 at most

[hallow ridge]

which one is that?

[dusk patio]

void hole cave in se where you fight the bone dragon

it has 5 waves in a massive arena and it takes a bit to clean everything up and progress waves

[hallow ridge]

ah.. thats not that bad

maybe a minute

[dusk patio]

besides that challenge and steamworks ( 🤮 ) every challenge should be completable sub 1min 20 with strictly casual gameplay

idk I'm just trying to think of a reason why the poster would be taking longer than 2 minutes per challenge on average

[hallow ridge]

because learning curve

lootruns are the most end game content there is rn, its difficult

[dusk patio]

yeah but I started lootrunning on morph with 1 min 20/chall time efficiency 😭

the optimization is in deciding what trials to use and how to maximize rewards

there isn't that much finesse in murdering enemies and clicking chests

[hallow ridge]

but maybe, just maybe... lootruns are not made for those who cannot spend more than 20 min at a time in front of the PC playing video games

if someone is like that, just go do raids, consistent, easy, quick, big LE

the thing I agree with is I want more loot thats worth taking or finding, other than mythics

(and pouches and ingredients)

[harsh oxide]

like i'd argue im above the skill curve (doing 1 challenge per 50-60s on average)

[raven fulcrum]

a lot of this thread just sounds like it comes from someone who is just really inexperienced when it comes to lring it will obviously get better once u actually learn it

[harsh oxide]

i do think it is partly inexperience, but feedback from them is still a good idea maybe they see something we miss

[raven fulcrum]

yeah true !

[gaunt valley]

This has to be rage bait

[raven fulcrum]

1 pull per min is crazy

[harsh oxide]

it's not

[raven fulcrum]

try to figure out mission combos and get a better build so u can clear challenges faster and read up on what trials do

[twilit mist]

bro imngl you just need to get better at lootrunning

at the start yeah rates are gonna feel low but it's a long learning process

[raven fulcrum]

i just disagree with every single point and ur ”bad luck” and inefficiency can be attributed to u just being inexperienced enough

[mystic tusk]

@rancid forge

What do you think of this

[vestal solar]

I keep getting told that lootrunning is the best way to make money

and then I'm either told to do these beacons or those beacons until I get those beacons and these beacons

And then I'm told to reroll until I get a mythic, then get nothing

and then there's dying in challenges because of fallen

[harsh oxide]

maybe it might be time to build up mage for lootrunning

[mystic tusk]

ok like im sorry but 26 challenges in almost an hour is actually fucking insane

im pretty sure i can go faster than that walking between all the challenges with like 100 walkspeed

[rancid forge]

bfs member

[vestal solar]

I think I'll try a more focused run, because a significant amount of that time was alt tabbing while in a chest/boon selection is what I realize, I'm not that slow with loot runs, but it's still a lot...

[gaunt valley]

https://tenor.com/view/get-a-job-bubbly-gif-1010836534559765451

[rancid forge]

quan member i mean

[gaunt valley]

Pure bleaches strongest warrior

[trail seal]

I don't like that a lot of content is targeted towards fully maxed out players. They keep making things more difficult - which doesn't matter to the high end addicts, but negatively impacts the experience of casual gamers

[soft abyss]

idk why u making a skill issue everyone elses problem, if u wanna be told what to do watch a guide or ask in #❓questions

if you wanna get paid consistently on every step go run raids

[trail seal]

They're not making a skill issue everyone else's problem. They're voicing their negative experience on Wynn as a casual gamer

[gaunt valley]

They’re not a casual player they play for 5+h a day lol

[trail seal]

casual does not necessarily mean playtime

[vestal solar]

Well, I gave it an honest effort, did all 4 missions, took 2 trials, and this is all I could make of it

[harsh oxide]

you're improving good job

[vestal solar]

That's not a good job

that is 4.5 LE

[harsh oxide]

you got 3 sacrifices, so your effort isn't wasted

[vestal solar]

An hour was though.

[regal yacht]

thats just how it goes

keep sac stacking and you'll hit eventually

[vestal solar]

Eugh.

[harsh oxide]

it's safe to say that getting mythics is the primary money making method for lootruns

[vestal solar]

And 3 sacs and 2 hours isn't enough to earn enough money to consider it a worthwhile investment

I just...

that was an hour of playing Fallen Hero and just stressing and struggling over my HP

[harsh oxide]

maybe lootrunning isn't your thing or can't fit into your time investment
nad thats fine

[devout cove]

Genuinely, if this content simply gave you as much as 32EB-1 LE per Challenge completed I honestly think this would improve the payout of lootrunning tenfold and make the ridiculous nature of poor gambling addictions less prevalent.
32eb/1le per challenge when I'm doing a challenge every 50-60 seconds

[regal yacht]

its just a different way of making money, would you rather raid and get a slow and steady income or would you rather lootrun and hit it big after time investment

[harsh oxide]

raids are always availible for you with a much lower time investment

[regal yacht]

pick your poison really

[vestal solar]

I wish people were more upfront about it instead of expecting me to be okay with melting hours into getting a potentially crap mythic (My last few mythic pulls as of recent were an AZ and a Nullificaion, they don't even sell for 1stx unid and they're unpopular mythic items)

[regal yacht]

people?

[vestal solar]

Every person that recommended lootrun never really threw the hard facts about how rough this piece of content is

[devout cove]

it's not

[harsh oxide]

it sorta is

there is a learning curve in lootruns, just like for everything

[vestal solar]

Maybe they're gamble brained, but I don't like the wheels of fate to determine my worth

[devout cove]

that's what raids are for, which give comparable profit plus aspects, and are consistent

it's a consistent 4ish le for 10-15 minutes of work

[devout cove]

almost exactly what you're asking for here, actually

[regal yacht]

vs maybe a stx or two if you get a not awful mythic after an hour run or two

incremental vs all at once

[harsh oxide]

like pop quiz
you beat a challenge and see this
what do you do

[devout cove]

rr

[regal yacht]

ur ui cluttered as hell damn

[vestal solar]

I'll take any mythic box I get

[devout cove]

I assume they're talking about the chat message

[vestal solar]

I don't have the loot bonus or loot quality to get it though, nor have I done a run all about opening boxes

because everyone kept telling me optimal 100-challenge based runs which just feels like it takes hours

[harsh oxide]

you can find a mythic with 0 loot quality and 0 loot bonus it's just very rare

[vestal solar]

You've seen my luck so far, you'll have to understand my pessimism at this point

[harsh oxide]

all you really need for a flying chest run is interest scheme + jester's trick (won't always happen)

from there, any one of these missions popping up are good
(redemption, high roller, orphion's grace, materialism, hoarder, complete chaos)

and i get it
it seems lik the bad luck streak will never end

[rancid forge]

🫃

[gaunt valley]

On jawd

[gaunt valley]

It’s not luck it’s lack of skill bucko

[rancid forge]

lootrunning is very easy, read when there is text and think about the consequences

[red pivot]

this is just not true you absolutely can go lootruns without mythics there aint a guarantee at all, but thats where sacs play into things

[rancid forge]

you may inform yourself with information at your own time without other's help by reading

[red pivot]

have you considered maybe playing smth like paladin where you dont gotta stress so much?

[rancid forge]

you can but if you do enough lootrun on average you get more money than raids; it never about a single run, its about the average over many runs

[red pivot]

lootrunning with a class/archetype that you enjoy will make the lootrun experience so much better imo

[vernal flume]

blacksmith it

[rancid forge]

paladin has very slow movement speed as well as no damage causing it to be very slow and very inefficient which is exactly his problem

[red pivot]

they said they have idol so that fixes the first part

[rancid forge]

you are offering cyanide to someone who is complaining about dying

[rancid forge]

lemme uh go on my oblivion shadestepper build

[red pivot]

you can do, nothing is stopping you

i lootrun on archer like i dont do things super optimally and thats fine

[trail seal]

nothing except the 10th challenge

[rancid forge]

well well well look who's speaking

[red pivot]

okay?

[rancid forge]

the joke writes themselves sometimes

[red pivot]

the rudeness aside, im tryna say that stressing yourself over gameplay in a lootrun is a surefire way to make yourself not enjoy it

[red pivot]

in the same sense that it is optimal to do 100 chal runs, you are free to do shorter ones theyre not impossible

you gotta just change up what you go for, maybe try and go for the gambling beast trial to boost your rerolls a ton and end at like challenge 40-50

[devout cove]

Short runs are still kinda meta honestly

[regal yacht]

i think lq lb yellow runs are better rn tbh

[red pivot]

idk what your mission combos were either at that point, or if you even got a rainbow/aqua chain going, but 50 pulls is pretty low thats basically if you had just completed the basic challenges themselves

though from what you said you got gank’d by side hustle so you basically lost out on a trial, not really your fault that trial’s awful

[somber heron]

It’s because there are many different strategies when lootrunning, and the transition after the update has been mixed. So everyone is telling you to do one thing or another, especially when every lootrun is different. At this point there are 3 main strategies for lootrunning, but you have to learn them all since u don’t know where the lootrun will go when u start.

Slap on the fact that lootruns do require a good build and a certain level of skill, and it becomes a bit confusing for newer or less skilled players. There IS a learning curve, and you shouldn’t expect to do well right away. This has just become a bit worse because BEFORE the update, there was only 1 viable strategy, and now there are 3!!! It’s much harder to learn

[vestal solar]

While I can get behind the concept of a learning curve, I wish it was pointed out more often because I jumped headfirst into this and let the community drive me towards what I thought would be what they considered: "The best money-making activity in the game"

Overtime I recognized that I'm spending hours "learning" and getting pennies in return, for hours I can't get back

hours

[errant fable]

Do research first

[somber heron]

I mean if u wanna do raids it’s kinda the same. The difference is u can get carried in raids

[errant fable]

You don't jump into an experiment without writing your hypothesis

At least figure out what you're supposed to do

[trail seal]

it's the best money making activity in the game FOR THEM because they already had done the learning curve and gear obtaining
it's not the best money printer FOR YOU until you have the same amount of experience

lootrun is gambling where you can turn the odds into your favor

[harsh oxide]

techinally speaking, the best le method is working your 9-5 job

[trail seal]

grinding stacks of real money > grinding stacks of LE

[harsh oxide]

consistant payout (whatever you make an hour)
you'll find a buyer of shares easily (they're always in demand)

[somber heron]

also the rates are insane! No way!

[trail seal]

people in indonesia making 12 EB/week:

[harsh oxide]

say you make 30$ an hour
let's be realistic and say you can cut 20% of this for wynncraft purposes, leaving with 6$ an hour
assuming a share costs 35le, and you buy the cheapest package (10 for 12$)
thats like 2.5 stacks per hour

[trail seal]

excuse me in what world are we using 20% of our income for a video game

[vestal solar]

When the idea initially came up I highkey grew uncomfortable with the concept of P2W in Wynncraft

[somber heron]

No no people will use their real life jobs to make money for real life. In terms of a moneymaking method, this would be ON TOP of other time working, so it would be INSTEAD of doing a wynncraft money making method. So u can do 100% of extra hours worked

(Also 20% of ur income on wynncraft is crazy)

[harsh oxide]

go ask whales on genshin

[vestal solar]

lmao

[trail seal]

it's not pay to win, it's pay to progress at reasonable pace

[mystic tusk]

yo any prof speed bombs rn!?

[trail seal]

and a better build alone will not make you better at lootrunning

[trail seal]

buy champion so you can leech

[mystic tusk]

I dont like you.

[harsh oxide]

in all seriousness i don't personally whale on any game

[mystic tusk]

Can i leech off ur champion rank please?

[harsh oxide]

and to me being a whale is like
consistantly spending a few hundred dollars every month

[mystic tusk]

most money ive spent on a videogame is like

fortnite probably and i spent like 70 dollars total over many years of playing

[devout cove]

I think your issue is mostly just an Archetype thing, try switching to Palamonk, (which I don't have a build for), or Absolution if you have a Shaman: https://wynnbuilder.github.io/builder/#CK0vamd6mE1XQUbd0AGm3BCSbZ9DOLWF0OdH-SW3+lFRxXkB0
-# Credit to the Ped guild

Fallen can be difficult, and if you're dying at all then that's going to massively reduce your efficiency.

[zealous nimbus]

it has 4 waves now

[tulip spire]

Have you thought about not playing fallen hero?

You can't complain about challenges requiring too much ehp when you're running fallen

[flint cave]

Lot of those items unided are worth 1 le or up on trade market you know

You should probably look for a camp where the more common items matter to you instead of just blacksmithing everything that isn’t a mythic

[pale canyon]

I wish that one sky island pool 6-8 weeks ago with nirv crabs and warp come back

this week just isn't that worth it ; - ;

[regal haven]

il be honest ive never seen an actual real estimate of money per hr from lr cus of how long u can go with no reward + how strongly dependent on the pool currently available it is

the people that actually crank lr for big money do a lot of it, and usually fuck off when theres bad pools

def doin it far faster than u too

[twilit mist]

it's really not but if you aren't willing to put a little bit of time into learning it then yeah it's gonna suck

[hallow ridge]

strongly depends on your skills and knowledge, anywhere from 1 to 5 stacks LE imo

[hallow ridge]

lootruns are not that big of a gamble, once you learn it, because orange +rainbow beacons can make sure that your runs are as predictable as it gets, except for the missions and trials you'll get, but part of the skill expression of lootrunning is adapting to which missions and trials you get

and you almost always get a mythic, once you went through the learning curve and you somewhat know what you are doing

if you want a good fallback trial that is easy, try lights out, +2 pulls per challenge completed, just spam red, green, orange and blue beacons mindlessly until the 100. challenge

also, try another archetype, because managing your hp is difficult, you should play an easy archetype like shaman or healer mage, until you learn each challenge location

[regal haven]

that and the pool itself

feel like it be better if people estimated based on mythics per hour/s

[regal haven]

must say i think your idea of what is and isnt that much of a gamble seems very different from OPs idea though

theyre complaining that they run for an hr and get 2eb basically
even if they were getting a mythic every 2hrs they wouldnt be too happy

[twilit mist]

(please do not do this)

all meta lootrunning builds have plenty of self sustain anyways

@merry scaffold whats up

[merry scaffold]

not much

i can’t sleep :(

[twilit mist]

☹️

visiting constructive feedback gotta be a top 3 activity when yo ucant sleep

[merry scaffold]

yuppppp

[raven fulcrum]

at the end of the day lootrunning is always gonna be rng, that’s what it’s built upon

[raven fulcrum]

this

[hallow ridge]

well.. all I'll say is that it would be very boring if it was "lootrun for 2 hours to get this and that mythic (or a random mythic) guaranteed"

its close to that, but not quite there, it has some rng

which makes it fun

[raven fulcrum]

mega truth nuke

[hallow ridge]

this is why I hate raids, its boring as heck

but some people do raids 10 hours a day and love it, who am I to tell em what to do? : p

[raven fulcrum]

mega truth nuke nr2

[hallow ridge]

in lootruns, constantly having to adapt makes the skill ceiling incredibly high, it takes some effort even after you have learnt everything, but that is what makes lootrunning fun, constantly adapting to beacon colors and missions and trials

[mellow ingot]

i kinda agree but not fully

i think adaptation is a good thing

but i still do not like how big difference between very good mission run completed flawlessly and normal mission run completed flawlessly

like 50% difference would be fine

[hallow ridge]

just like in real life, become the ceo of a 1000 employee company, if you want a very stressful, very high skill ceiling job, where you work 80-90 hours a day and that work is what you dedicate your entire life to (lootruns kinda), because thats what you want to do, OR do a "40 hours a week" job as an employee , where you can just live a normal life and help your community out in different ways (so its fulfilling for your soul), while having some remaining time to do other hobbies and activities each day or week (raids, kinda)

[mellow ingot]

but rn we have ~100%

[harsh oxide]

or be a tech bro or ai bro and make all the money without delivering a product

[mellow ingot]

even real life is easier xD

[hallow ridge]

the difference is around 50% though.. lights out is the fallback trial, and it gives quite decent runs, especially with chronokinesis

[mellow ingot]

well its not

[hallow ridge]

my lights out runs are always 300-400 pulls per reroll, with 2 sacri

[mellow ingot]

bcs u lose on rrs so eff pulls are less too

[hallow ridge]

except they only take 70-75 min because you just spam the quickest challenge

[hallow ridge]

-1 reroll lol

I doubt -1 reroll makes that big of a difference, just do a quick gamba beast run

in any case, getting a "god run" is meant to be not so easy, and lights out is a wonderful fallback trial that gives a decent run almost no matter what

[mellow ingot]

i just dont like the fact that its kinda worthy to restart runs to get a god run

anyway not a big issue for you ig

[raven fulcrum]

thats how ive always been lootrunning

ion think theres anything wrong w that

[mellow ingot]

i too

but thats not a really healthy ig?

[raven fulcrum]

if u have sacs that u need to save u can most of the time atleast salvage the run to the point where u can get crimsons and get sacs etc and then end run if u dont wanna push it to 100 challenges

[regal haven]

yea i agree, gamba ishalf the joy here

[slim kayak]

slop

[raven fulcrum]

i guess idrk i dont exactly have any problems with it though

[mellow ingot]

i just would love to have more mission combos

i really want to see lootruns work more like an actual gamemode than an item grind

[raven fulcrum]

yeah and this update totally helpedso much with that lol i think i reset my runs like 5x less than i did before the update

[harsh oxide]

ive got 399 pulls sacced on se

[mellow ingot]

its actually other way

but tbf i have really high expectations of the runs

anyway i would love to see more glue-like missions that allow more mission combos withing alr existing ones

[raven fulcrum]

ok then i just disagree ig

[mellow ingot]

i forgot to add "for me*"

[raven fulcrum]

i assume we dont agree since i personally only really yellow run, u might go more for pull runs so

[hallow ridge]

no I completely agree with this, I just don't think there is a solution for it, other than maybe buffing ligths out to +3 pulls per challenge, but I think then lights out would become too op

[mellow ingot]

i think solution to it exists but its really hard one

[hallow ridge]

also, getting a god run with porphyro is very easy and commonplace, but since we usually want to go for flying chest runs, and jester and interest are very rare, its tough

[mellow ingot]

like reworking old missions

like in my c greed gives pulls post

[hallow ridge]

cleansing greed, orphions grace, even stasis has its place

[mellow ingot]

i prefer chest runs too

[mellow ingot]

but imagine they would not be niche and would actually work like a glue

[hallow ridge]

but I agree that stasis could use a buff, cleansing greed is never a priority, only a "meh.. choose if nothing else" mission, and orphions grace is near useless rn

[mellow ingot]

like u got eq and int scheme and u can run c greed for a decent run

[raven fulcrum]

yo I WILL NOT TOLERATE THE OGRACE SLANDER

[harsh oxide]

me too
once loot quality boons start working properly ograce is goated

[raven fulcrum]

ograce is not as good as other missions but ograce goated for lq i will not stand for this

[hallow ridge]

but the more lq you get, the less your chances become to get mythic boxes it seems

[mellow ingot]

or stasis being useful bcs it solves time issue fully like a cleansing ritual

[raven fulcrum]

???++++++

[hallow ridge]

yea this is my experience over the past 2 years

[harsh oxide]

yeah apprrently going over 100% lq is bad

[mellow ingot]

or o grace giving u more boon options instead idk

[hallow ridge]

I basically never get mythics above 300 lq

[harsh oxide]

the sweet spot appears to be 60-100% lq

[hallow ridge]

and I get 2-4 mythics per run with 60-100 lq

[mellow ingot]

idk i was grinding mythics with 4000 lq

[raven fulcrum]

did u hear this from melon or somewhere eles

[harsh oxide]

tealy has been notified of this (hopefully)

[hallow ridge]

its a lot of peoples experience tbh

[harsh oxide]

heard it from melon, and I trust melon on this

[hallow ridge]

I've heard it from 2 digit amount of people

as well as my own extensive experience

[mellow ingot]

i just feel like its a statistic misscalc more than anything

[harsh oxide]

in my opinion it's beyond bad luck

[raven fulcrum]

wth

[harsh oxide]

theres gotta be something wrong
(maybe an anti cheat?)

[mellow ingot]

like 300+ lq runs are more rare and thats why ppl think they give less

[raven fulcrum]

this cannot be real bruh

[hallow ridge]

the majority of my flying chest runs are 300+ lq

I start my runs with 60-100 lq depending on which gear I use

and lq boons are very common rn

[mellow ingot]

well again thats just a thoughts

i dont have a lot of statistics (i dont track my runs at all)

[hallow ridge]

I'm dialing back my runs to stay at around 100 lq, and prioritizing lb and dmg boons now

and I'll see over the next few weeks how it is

[mellow ingot]

tbf i have no idea how u can manage boons on hoarder run

[raven fulcrum]

dont repair lq gear

[mellow ingot]

lmao

[hallow ridge]

well thats not possible really, but hoarder is not that common, like with interest + jester, its not that big of a chance to get hoarder from the other 2 missions

[hallow ridge]

but my loot bonus 😢

[mellow ingot]

i get hoarder like every second run

[hallow ridge]

also, charms seem to have indeed stopped working on chests after the BETA

[mellow ingot]

and j trick is like 1/4 runs

[hallow ridge]

I swear they worked for the past 1.5-2 years, but they don't work now

[hallow ridge]

yea but to get hoarder with jtrick AND interest, thats rare

[mellow ingot]

well agree

[raven fulcrum]

stop derailing the thread g uys 😠 😠

[hallow ridge]

oh wait its not lootrun feedback? lmao

oops https://discord.com/channels/143852930036924417/1362842579959545946

[mellow ingot]

thats a skill issue thread xD

thats a joke pls guys dont get angry

[undone nimbus]

i’m so confused you don’t only target end reward chest mythics. like flying chest mythics are great

ngl the entire post just seems like i’m not getting a good mythic therefore this content sucks.

there are issues with lootrunning i WANT them to add something in the beginning of the run to guarantee a specific boon or a specific gray mission. that’ll be broken though

[raven fulcrum]

a lot of lr posts jus seem like ppl complaining that they arent being handfed mythics

i completely agree w u

[fresh mica]

I haven't lootrunned in 6 months and a lot of shit has changed, where can I find an updated guide

[raven fulcrum]

no updated guide afaik u own ur own king

just read thru the new trials and missions and you’ll figure it out since you’ve lr before

[fresh mica]

[raven fulcrum]

not that much has changed dawg ur fine

[fresh mica]

I was shit at lootrunning even before

[raven fulcrum]

just figure out new mission combos and know what ur getting urself into before taking a crimson

[raven fulcrum]

howww brah

[fresh mica]

all the camps are lowk ass rn nvm

[fresh mica]

Every time I follow someone's advice I get hit with "youre doing it wrong" and nobody explains

[raven fulcrum]

like.. missions ?

Before it was just get sac/rr mission and get a few aqua purple then end run

[fresh mica]

like sac stacking

I just don't get the right missions

[raven fulcrum]

I mean that part is just rng

If ur aquaing every gray and weren’t getting the right mission that’s just unlucky yk

But yeah there’s way more freedom now i’d say w what mission combos u can go for in a run

u was prolly doing it right just could have been like 10% more efficient which was just the slight learning curve that existed then

[vestal solar]

ah, the same situation as me

[raven fulcrum]

i can try and help if ur having any problems with specific stuff

i’m probably super out of touch i can’t really think ofanyone not being able to lootrun unless they don’t know how everything in lring works

[vestal solar]

I want to say in my experience I have been learning how to work a lootrun but because everything is so variable I might have done so much as broken the surface of how complicated lootrunning is

It's "go do w x y and z missions" and "do x beacon until y beacon shows up and stack a rainbow and aqua for z beacon"

It's so variable that it confuses me and really messes with what I'm supposed to do

[raven fulcrum]

i think maybe you’re overcomplicating it a bit

what do u mean by do x beacon until y beacon shows up tho id love to hear more examples

[vestal solar]

One run I was told to do blues until an orange showed up and go after oranges up and until whites show up in which I grab a rainbow, aqua, and then a white to extent my run by 30 challenges

[regal haven]

heeh?

[raven fulcrum]

i think it’s not so much of a code u should follow rather just what beacon is best for me here

[regal haven]

oranges for increasing ur options (and therefore being more likely to get rarer ones like rainbows)
blues for when ur struggling/theres nothing better
purples when ur doing well and want extra loot

ideally you find rainbows, use them to get boosted aquas so you can just get better everything (including boosted white and dark greys which only show up once an entire run)

rest comes down to ur runs

[harsh oxide]

i actually take more reds early on now

[raven fulcrum]

i totally recommend this too btw

ts used to be the method back when challenges would give more time and u had a rainbow going on fr

[harsh oxide]

extends your run + you don't waste "white" challenges

[vestal solar]

Don't reds prevent you fromo adding time for x challenges?

[harsh oxide]

yeah just go fast

[vestal solar]

let's try a less brash answer because that sounds ignorant

[raven fulcrum]

yeah but as long as ur early in the run ur gonna get time back once ur red challenges are over

[harsh oxide]

...yeah to be fair 😭 generally speaking speed is just
the best thing you can have during red beacons

[vestal solar]

Depends on what takes how long

[raven fulcrum]

this though @vestal solar

[vestal solar]

Early in the run everything should be easy and quick with the right build

[regal haven]

i mean....thats literally the thing we do though, provided u dont take a metric crap ton of reds at the same time u will be fine if u just go fast

[harsh oxide]

you'd be suprised how short some challenges can be

most of the time imo is getting to the challenges

[raven fulcrum]

challenges that give time r pretty valuable

[vestal solar]

Getting through caves is the fastest, mostly because it's just mindlessly killing things nearby the exit

[raven fulcrum]

wat build do u run

[vestal solar]

Slay, Defend, and Destroy are pretty rough though depending on your build

Fallen Hero + Offhand Idol

[harsh oxide]

defend missions take 40s
destroy missions take like 10s
slay missions are rough though i agree

[vestal solar]

My guildmates were baffled that my damage was bad on the build

[raven fulcrum]

tbh i’d recommend just going mainhand idol but that’s totally up to u

[vestal solar]

I originally was

[harsh oxide]

(i run monster riftwalker)

[regal haven]

tbh i just run warp arca and mindlessly spam my meteor and manabank keybinds

[vestal solar]

but I kept hearing fallen hero was the big thing for warrior

and then 2.1.3 released a few days after I bought a Hero

[raven fulcrum]

i hear so many complaints about time and dying during runs from ppl and they’re always running the same fallen hero offhand idol build idk what it is

[terse charm]

smoked by patches gggggggggggggggg

thats actually so unlucky

[regal haven]

still the best in terms of damage + qol no?

[vestal solar]

Damage is reliant on low health

Endgame content loves killing you at low health

[terse charm]

idol is better now in all circumstances

[raven fulcrum]

yeah that’s why i never played fallen in lrs

[terse charm]

since they hit the damage so fucking hard

[regal haven]

didnt the major id kinda fuck it?

[raven fulcrum]

this is also just mega true

major id is sooooo qol in lrs

[harsh oxide]

and yet people still run hero

[terse charm]

made it better, its kinda jank if you take the controlling charge idk whats its called but its so much better than gettings stopped randomly for no reason when traveling

[regal haven]

more specifically i find the major id hella annoying ngl

[unkempt forum]

wynncrafters when they have to play the game to get the ingame currency:

[raven fulcrum]

major id makes clearing caves way faster

[terse charm]

nah it was the same for me but you get used to it

[regal haven]

fair

[terse charm]

oh yeah isn't guardian better dps than hero rn rofl

[terse charm]

this ones probably a product of people not being billionares and being able to afford every mythic in the game so they can't just swap depending on the meta

[harsh oxide]

now thats a take if i've ever seen one

there is no way guardian outdamages hero 😭

[terse charm]

im like 80% it does for crafted builds idk about non-crafted ones

they just hit the damage that hard for hero

[harsh oxide]

https://wynnbuilder.github.io/builder/#CK0E9G5G4c0XQ41KDKDKDKDX9KDm9IG4GrGrGrGr4cGr0d81H0L3L3L3LJO2LZPY441KDKDKDKDX9KDn9I0cQUveH0ety+c7+9Q so you'd run something like this?

[terse charm]

idk i dont build goodly but hero dps is so abysmal you could probably cook something that out performs it with some goofy tech

but anyways back ontopic, lootruns are hard and complicated so unless you know what ur doing you kinda get jack and shit from them, ur probably just feeling that

[regal yacht]

just gotta learn and not follow instructions blindly honestly, brain is pretty necessary for building a good run, knowing when to X or Y beacon is pretty important since often you'll have to make decisions based on probability, like a ''well i could just take this aqua'd orange right now or reroll to hope a rainbow/whatever else you might need''

i personally had to spend quite some time learning by myself how it all works

[devout cove]

guys please stop messing with this poor soul

[devout cove]

Fallens running 5hp used to be common before they fixed the bug that made it viable, doing most/all content hitless is absolutely possible and Hero is easily the easiest Spear to do it with. That doesn't mean it's easy though, and the playstyle isn't at all beginner friendly or mechanically accessible, so if you're struggling with it that's understandable, but it's unfair to blame the game in this case.

@vestal solar could you link the exact build you're running? Additionally, what tier is your Fallen Mythic Aspect?

[twilit mist]

?

[raven fulcrum]

?

[grizzled cloak]

Warrior is good enough though

[raven fulcrum]

warrior is way easier

warp is always gonna b faster doe

[harsh oxide]

I dont use warp and I get pretty fast times
its not a need its a want

[raven fulcrum]

yea

[twilit mist]

warp is better but like warrior is infinitely easier

[raven fulcrum]

yuuurp

[tardy adder]

Only thing I had an issue with lootrunning is investment potentially leading to absolutely nothing with sac runs if you got really shit rng which is why I wanted a 50 chall for 1 sac bonus minimum once a run to at least respect your time, they actually put a pretty nice bandaid on this with trials and I think runs feel pretty consistently rewarding if you go that route just as an option