Make timelock activate ignore mana cost of heal

[scenic wyvern]

Going from arcanist to rf, it's just really unintuitive to try to cast the big-ultimate-thing-of-doom only to be met with a clang and "You don't have enough mana to cast that spell!"
Timelock doesnt cost mana, so why does it act like it does?

[distant raft]

https://tenor.com/view/chris-heatherly-uh-uhh-uhhh-uh-uh-uhhh-uh-gif-739985781560820273

[tall kraken]

no more buff mage and shaman pls

[sleek creek]

its the same as in timelock, if your mana costs go above your current mana, regardless of it not consuming it, it will not cast
also i feel like if youre having this issue lwky its skill issue or insane miscasts bc you should not be getting that low with manastorm tree, or in case of seance tree you should have enough sustain built in.

[lone schooner]

True but imagine if Arcanist Chaos ALSO cost mana to use, and someone replied with "erm, skill issue? Just compensate for the cost in your build"

Like, yeah, ideally you do that anyways in current mechanics, but they're not wrong about how it should function

The urge to ping termi is strong with this one lmfao

[sleek creek]

i mean the same mindset was used to implement the mana restoration but in turn we got a cd for timelock so idk

it again to me just seems like a non issue and something thats been here for the longest time and shouldnt need a fix 😭

bc this happens in so few cases

[sterile vapor]

actually not really

if your gaia isnt great or you fucked up your spells a bit with a low mr build it's very easy to not have enough to timelock

[exotic turtle]

dew it

[lone schooner]

Just add the stipulation that it should just be a function without any trade off. No monkey paw thing

[sleek creek]

idk i feel like its a build issue atp, if you run such a low mr build that your sustain relies on you getting mana when you timelock thats just how it is, tradeoff for big timelock dps is a low mr build with little room for error
a lot of the sustain already comes from manastorm, so for a fatal gaia build all you rlly need is honestly a -10 spell which id argue is cheap and accessible to almost everyone

not saying i wouldnt like this qol change but idk rw is very strong and has had this interaction for the longest time with few complaints, and i dont want it to get nerfed with some other tradeoff 😭

also a change like this would kinda make people want to make little to no mr builds abusing literally just manastorm, because whats the point if i can ice snake to whatever winded i want, then timelock regardless how low my mr is and regain all the mana back idk tho

[gloomy yarrow]

timelocked was a mistake

[lone schooner]

Wrong it's fun as hell

[lone schooner]

This is already balanced by the fact that Timelock has a timer

[gloomy yarrow]

Wrong its balance hell ans not far from just arcanist 2

[lone schooner]

👎 it's fun and engaging, you could call anything Arcanist 2.0 if you give it enough spell spam

[sleek creek]

but i can make a no mr build and just tl at 0 mana with literally manastorm
in the case of fatal gaia has like 8/5 mr and im able to sustain above 100 mana, without i can just spam icesnake timelock no mana and do more dmg
i can now make crafteds with pure damage and do more lmao

[lone schooner]

Can't you already do this with just a singular mana potion or consu anyways

Like genuinely, just a vanilla potion of mana accomplishes the same thing no?

[sleek creek]

you can say the same about any low mr build and consumables, yes u can do literally anything lol
just warring atp

yes but the point of a build by itself is that it can sustain itself without consumables

i dont wanna pop a mana pot every 30 seconds to build winded

[lone schooner]

EC activates without mana
Chaos activates without mana
Timelock, intuitively, should also activate without mana

From a common sense perspective, it... Makes sense. You're only against it out of fear of "we must balance this positive with another negative" which is a valid fear to have, but that doesn't make the core suggestion any worse that just means you don't trust CT lmao

[sleek creek]

fair those abilities dont cost mana, some ultimates do though
blood sorrow
trickshade malicious mockery
(im blanking on examples ik theres more)

it just feels like rw playstyle kinda getting completely changed from these changes idk
also yea i dont trust ct <:

[lone schooner]

(idk what malicious is)

[lone schooner]

"CT nerf fun" moment 😔

[sleek creek]

thing that absorbs the tricks u have to cast a dash technically

idk like if it goes through just know im making a 0 mr fatal rw build doing 1.4m 30 winded 😭

[lone schooner]

Does it do damage

[sleek creek]

yea it does dmg and applies all the debuffs

[harsh lake]

Well, it's not the problem considering that the optimal cycle is teleport + 2-5 meteors

And you get your mana instantly filled upon timelocking

Although it's pain when you randomly dump 50 mana on a meteor after leaving timelock

[sleek creek]

the issue refilling mana fixed was not being able to cast when u had no mana when u first timelocked
if i timelocked at 20 mana and did 2 meteors i couldnt cast them as an example

[harsh lake]

Yeah, i know that thing

Rn feels like the optimal way to timelock when at low mana is to use mana steal

[sleek creek]

what

[harsh lake]

At least if you're using the stardew build

[sleek creek]

again i feel like its a build issue u should not go below a threshold of mana depending on ur build... u should have sustain of sorts built in. If not why do i just not go 0 mr build pure dmg

[harsh lake]

https://wynnbuilder.github.io/builder/#CK0G7kS2B0E1NEyQkS6eGvDmmG456rSn3q50c60q+ljNsF7

[sleek creek]

u can sustain that with gaia manastorm im sure

[harsh lake]

This build i mean, it has a kinda stinky mana regen so to sustain, you kinda rely on timelocking and snake spamming with gaia (which also needs -12sp cost to be usable)

[sleek creek]

u dont need -12 sp 😭
literally tomes decent gaia manastorm is fine

[harsh lake]

With this build i literally get 2 snake cost with -11 gaia

So you need -12 snake cost for that build

[sleek creek]

manastorm gives u effectively 12/5 when above 100 mana

2 ice snake cost isnt crazy 😭 🙏

[harsh lake]

I do 3 snakes + heal, technically 2 snakes would be cheaper

But 3 snakes apply winded faster

[sleek creek]

yes so do that cycle there are consequences for doing faster cycles or more dmg things thats how it works 😭

if i cuold i would only spam icesnake

[harsh lake]

Although that build has an advantage of having mana steal and slow attack speed

Which is useful because you can get like 20 mana in an instant when necessary

And once you timelock, you gain infinite mana

[sleek creek]

use it if u want faster to cast 2x icesnake 1x heal for sustain

u use faster cycle when guaranteed u can stack and absorb winded, such as in a boss

[harsh lake]

Alternatively you can do hit + 2 snakes + heal

To insta timelock when low on mana for an instant refill

I usually lose mana when doing 3 snakes + heal cycle

But i apply winded fast enough that i can x35 timelock roughly when half of my mana is gone

[sleek creek]

what is the point of manastorm if ur not using it 😭

[harsh lake]

Against a single target

It still grants me like 50 bonus mana per timelock cycle

[sleek creek]

i fear ur using the build wrong if ur struggling with mana 🤷‍♂️
manastorm is literally ur sustain soooo

[harsh lake]

Which makes it way more reliable

My sustain is a mix of everything

At high mana it's manastorm, at low mana it's mana steal + timelock refill

[sleek creek]

so do we need this change

[harsh lake]

Also i could alternatively sacrifice some dps to just use warchief and chain rule instead of stardew and asphyxia

It's making a much easier build to use, although the dps is like 20% lower so that's a bit oof

Yeah, feels like asphyxia is the way to go, but stardew is basically raising the skill cap to do more like 5% more dps and can be replaced with warchief for more casual players

Although i could def say that more riftwalker QoL is nice to have, just i feel like timelock should get tuned down a bit so maybe it caps at x50 or something? Rn it's a bit broken considering that you don't have to give a damn about mana/health sustain and can go all into spell damage

[scenic wyvern]

nah timelock is the only thing making rf fun and therefore stopping mage from having only 1 actually fun archetype

[small scroll]

chaos explosion costing mana would be a buff

[lone schooner]

Oh right, cause meteor 4x into chaos would reset costs

[glass plover]

Timelock does cost mana

It's a replacement of your spell

It would make no sense being free. This is identical to other abilities like blood sorrow, eldritch call, mask switching, sending humming birds to attack, entering crep ray, maybe other stuff I'm forgetting

At a smaller ability level, there's many things that just replace your base spell and they obviously still cost mana. Bamboozle, backstab, phantom ray, ophanim and maybe others I'm also forgetting

[sterile vapor]

Ecall doesn't cost mana tho

Neither does arcane transfer while it's a complete replacement or the spell

[lone schooner]

@glass plover it's closer in theme to Arcane Transfer as a "mana cheat" spell than it is to Sorrow since it doesn't actually do any damage. You can cast timelock and just... not do anything with it.

It's more intuitive for it to ignore cost as you activate it

[glass plover]

Yes it does it got changed in this last update

It was a bug previously that it didnt

[glass plover]

I disagree that they're similar, you could argue that ophanim does nothing unless you melee but it still costs meteor mana to spawn them

You are casting timelock which replaces the heal spell, it puts you into a god like state. It costs mana like pretty much every other spell

[sterile vapor]

i cant find that in the changelog, am i missing it or is it just not there?

[harsh lake]

Ig the fact that it takes mana to get more mana adds some mana management skill

But at the same time feels like there should be something done about spells so those aren't reliant on macros that are extremely inconsistent with lag

[glass plover]

There's nothing that can be done in Minecraft like having 1 click spells

At least for now unfortunately

[glass plover]

Hm you're right it may have been missed! It was a big update after all

[harsh lake]

Yeah, although once i had an idea about spell books that let you configure a spell macro of up to 5 spells that are ran on the server side

[glass plover]

Like you do 1 click combo and it casts 5 spells?

[harsh lake]

And you could trigger them by pressing Q/F since those buttons are kinda unused

[sterile vapor]

sounds a bit op

[harsh lake]

Yeah, but with like 0.3s interval between spells and it still uses mana

So it's just the same thing as spamming regular macros, just way more consistent

[sterile vapor]

yeah probably not a good idea considering some cycles like rift are meteor 4x->tp

[glass plover]

Mhm yeah I understand, it's a cool idea though maybe a little hard to understand

I just wish we could get native keyboard options so we could have a proper spell button 😂

[harsh lake]

https://discord.com/channels/143852930036924417/1376670192339386508

This thing i mean

Rn predicates only allow for detecting current inputs like holding space bar or WASD keys

And you would prob need mods to allow for more keys

Maybe it could be funny to add a modding API for the server so it registers inputs labelled as "spell1" or "spell2" in packets, but at the same time it just makes the game even more mod reliant which sucks

[scenic wyvern]

in the backend sure, but to the user it doesnt seem like it does

to the server it may look like "mana go down, mana go up" but to the player it just looks like "mana go up"

[lone schooner]

As the person above this message just said, mana go down then mana go up doesn't show up for the player
Intuitively, if you have an ability that refills your mana (like arcane transfer) it's weird for the ability to activate it to cost you anything.

Its like being charged $20 to withdraw $500 from your account, but the bank doesn't let you pay for that from the $500 amount, and you have to have that $20 separately and in your hand. It doesn't feel intuitive or consistent to the person/individual

[harsh lake]

well, that's the thing... if you just get to creating datapacks, you might learn about sub-tick operations

for example you might want to summon a dummy entity, read its data, insert it somewhere and delete it afterwards, so you might want to do it in less than 1 tick so that dummy entity is invisible

and you only see effects from tick to tick, but you don't see what happens between those

generally speaking i could split datapacks into 4 levels:

beginner - you still learn about file structure, data types, nbt and commands
intermediate - you get to learn about some algorithms and putting them into practical use
professional - you already get to min-maxing the optimization process and you can already make moderately big projects
master - you start making big projects like large maps or perhaps re-creating mods with datapacks

what were we talking about...

by the way timelock cost 0 mana before the update, but it could as well just do -sp1 +sp1 because it still didn't work with an empty mana bar, it's just that it didn't insta-refill it

[scenic wyvern]

i do make datapacks lol, and i really dont see what point you're trying to make here

[shadow moon]

how does the quest thing with the numbers work

why can’t that be used for 1 button spell D:

[harsh lake]

Basically when something happens between ticks, it's not noticeable

But it still happens, like subtracting and refunding mana in this case

[scenic wyvern]

yes? my message that you replied to acknowledged that