Buff hmelee crafteds/ings

[dreamy grove]

buff hmelee ings for crafteds or at least reduce the requirements for them as a quick bandaid patch
ironwood chips are the best melee % ing by far, but at a 24 req per use it stacks up quickly. reducing by 4 to make it a solid 20 would make it more usable in hmelee crafted builds, allowing for more variety in builds rather than just non crafteds being literally better 9/10 times!

another thing that should be buffed/changed regarding melee crafteds is the raw melee ings. Literally there is no raw melee ing that is worth putting in in place of ironwood chips which feels kind bad being forced to just use melee % damage on crafteds where there should be a variety of damage types to be able to use in crafteds, since right now youre forced to meet this 170% melee % threshold to be better than a noncrafted.

I feel like crafteds when used and built properly should lead to a dps increase in most cases, but again, this is very hard to do with hmelee because of how bad the ings are to use.
items with a high enough base dps will make use of the 170% melee crafteds (something like https://wynnbuilder.github.io/crafter/#4aZCSCSCSCSCSec81), which requires a whopping 140 str req, not achievable in most situations. While argued I can flip blackholes (something like https://wynnbuilder.github.io/crafter/#4KZucOaSOWnCSec81), yes only 82 str req, you get 145% melee, which will in turn do less than a noncrafted even with high base.
basically for the insane req youre not getting your worth of the crafted in almost every case.

[vague steppe]

please buff H melee im begging for twains arc to be a real play style

[dreamy grove]

"curse of tier flipping"
@crystal knoll be so fr this is an ing problem. flipping neg tiers to get something like +3 tiers shouldnt be a thing, them getting punished from higher melee % numbers is just a wom womp for them (get it)
this is the common 1 tier helmet https://wynnbuilder.github.io/crafter/#4KQKZKQWcWcWpec81 which isnt even flipped and is fair. There is literally no issue with this request.

[vague steppe]

This isnt a non issue, getting raw melee is not worth from any crafts leaving builds to be more static and lame

oh shit i misread what you said im an idoit

[dreamy grove]

responding to a deleted message :D

[plush mason]

^^^^^^^^^^^^

[vague steppe]

THE VOICEE IB MY HEAD THEE VOICESSS

axiom crafted rings are literally just x6 silver bullets because H melee has so little ing nothing is worth effecting so you just stack thunder dmg and a tiny amout of raw melee. THAT IS A BORING BRAIN DEAD CRAFT BECAUSE THERE ARE LIKE ZERO OTHER OPTIONS

[dreamy grove]

my crafted version vs non crafted i think does just shy of like 5% more per twains which is so little beacuse i cant even replace every piece, as noncrafted is literally the better option most of the time

5% considering how twains does so little rn is bad

[stuck hawk]

in the case of silver bullets (and generally with jewelling) there's the very obvious problem of: if we buffed it, then this would still profit tierstack more, if you added a tierdrop, flipping it would be too easy, there's just kinda nothing you can do (with jewelling more than anything else) that helps hmelee more than tierstack

[sick crown]

wild

[teal nimbus]

your recipes are shit are you even trying

not a single soul looks at this and thinks "yea thats the best i can get!"

this is what i can do

if youre gonna make a post complaining about hmelee ings being too weak at least take the time to put together a thought out recipe instead of slapping a meta-ing and 5 of the things you wanna buff and yap

i posted 169% at 90 str

[dreamy grove]

send the recipe lmao screenshots do nothing

[teal nimbus]

you clearly dont want to put in the same effort i did

[dreamy grove]

whats the dura on it, what are the other reqs, u sending 2 screenshots of numbers does not a lot

[teal nimbus]

t3 dernics

[dreamy grove]

other reqs?

even then you cant argue this is BARELY better than a noncrafted lmao

[teal nimbus]

defeats the purpose of me sending separate screenshots but ill tell you that theyre feasible

[teal nimbus]

169% is barely better than noncrafted then 170% at 137 str req must not be worth using at all

[dreamy grove]

yea its really not but that was my attempt

but if theres other reqs urs and is 'feasible' it might not be worth using that much either

[teal nimbus]

for reference whats the noncrafted your comparing it to?

[dreamy grove]

depends?
chestplate taurus beats literally any crafted
boots dbreak is the best, but theres the def requirement
if ur going thunder build impossiblity threshold or withering are insane
it depends on ur build?

[teal nimbus]

i understand i am ambigious when i say "feasible" so ill elaborate that i have more than enough sp

and the build is strong (for pfinder in bursts)

[dreamy grove]

yea your build does, what about other builds that arent just et(some other element)

again not a lot of variety with recipes regardless if ur crafted works on your niche build

[teal nimbus]

et is basically prerequisite for hmelee

[vague steppe]

is this point not literally saying iron chips are basically the only option. Making and iron chips recipe isnt helping your point to proving “theres enough options” for this to not be an issue

[dreamy grove]

yes but im assuming theres another req on ur crafted which isnt viable on pure et

[teal nimbus]

you can assume that but do you know how much the req is?

[dreamy grove]

no bc u wont say LMAOOOO thats my point

u gatekeeping doesnt help if ur trying to prove a point

bc it makes me assume theres an insane other req that not every other et build can take

[vague steppe]

If youre talking abour iron chips, not really its just stregth. You are locked into str builds but thats about it

(this knowledge comes from trying to make Bignis) (Hmelee ignis) (its fun but having over 200% melee abd still inly getting 200k twains arc is depressing)

[dreamy grove]

depends bc some effectiveness ings have reqs too, if you flip something like a dizzying void just bc of how the recipe is youre forced to have sp in defense

[teal nimbus]

youre right but i do think its fair he wants to use thunder too

[dreamy grove]

et is base for most hmelee as you said, so most will have almost all sp in earth and thunder

[vague steppe]

it makes sense if u wanna build into axiom you have to abd there and very few thunder melee ing, silver bullet beint almost the only one worth it

[teal nimbus]

i personally think its worth using so "insane" is very much out of proportion but i do understand you feel like i have a baseless argument since i gatekeep the recipe

however i am gatekeeping it for a reason...

[neon cobalt]

Keep hmelee bad

[dreamy grove]

mb for using a hyperbole, but regardless theres another req that not every other et build can use

[vague steppe]

gatekeeping recipe is stupid anyways, its basically saying i found skmething broken that CT are going to nerf if they find out. Its bad for the comminity in every single way

[vague steppe]

i h8 u

[teal nimbus]

i agree its stupid but since other people are gatekeeping, i must do the same

likewise if everyone shares recipes with each other, i will share mine too

and when i say sharing i dont mean slapping decaying heart, borange/elephelk/rafflesia/bob, unicorn horns... i mean creative recipes

[neon cobalt]

I h8 people without pfps

[vague steppe]

battery im gonna party bomb ur next annie

[dreamy grove]

that is bad philosophy 😭
"bc other people do this thing i must do it as well" is such a bad mindset lmao
you dont need to gatekeep, but you decide to. being open about recipes and builds honestly is better for the community since everyone learns how to use different things more and helps unbalcned aspects of the game which just isnt fair

[teal nimbus]

that is why i agree its stupid

[dreamy grove]

so why do you do it 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭

[vague steppe]

i think wynn should have a basic guide on effectiveness and neg flip stuff. Its one of the biggest gate keep in wynn crafting jmo

[teal nimbus]

because i dont want my 2 pages of crafteds to be worthless within 3 patches of being crafted

[vague steppe]

again this is just negtive fir the health of the game

[teal nimbus]

granted not ALL of them are gatekept recipe but at least 1/3rd should be

[dreamy grove]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1184481478558625816/1400652407637282866/convert.gif

[teal nimbus]

i do create them myself

[dreamy grove]

dernics so cheap rn be so fr 😭 i have like a page just sitting waiting to be put on the tm

[teal nimbus]

its not like im sharing gatekept recipes/builds with other people also gatekeeping, this is all individual work

[vague steppe]

me when deric use to be 7le each 😭

[teal nimbus]

it does happen but ultimately i take pride in my own work

[dreamy grove]

regardless i feel like gatekeeping is just such an unhealthy thing for the game but i get that others do it so wtv 🤷‍♂️ thats not what this post is about

[teal nimbus]

and it feels really shit when your recipe is halved

[teal nimbus]

im saying you cant say ings are bad when you do the same meta flips for anything you want to craft and you must be more open minded

[vague steppe]

i mean this is more a problem with the design team not being able to balamce ing

baddest

what rings would you make for axiom that isnt just x6 silver bullets?

[dreamy grove]

there LITERALLY is a problem with variety and use of hmelee items pls read the post i made 😭

[teal nimbus]

i actually dont know what that item is

im spamming bonfire rn bcs its peak game

[vague steppe]

thunder Hmelee bow with twains arc MID. Currebtly best twains arc bow for dmg

[dreamy grove]

bro here just to argue not actually have convo

[vague steppe]

fr i kinda agree with op

[teal nimbus]

i think debate is a more appropriate word

just like you give constructive feedback on hmelee ings i give constructive feedback on how to build

[dreamy grove]

debate u constantly go off topic didnt even read the discussion post

you clicked on a link and said "ew bad crafted" and argued

[vague steppe]

dude jusy admit h melee could use more ing

[teal nimbus]

this one right

[vague steppe]

yes

[dreamy grove]

axiom epoch are the main reason i made this post yes but across all hmelee it can be improved

[vague steppe]

^ i became an axiom gamer after my post about adding in “360”

[dreamy grove]

its such a fun playstyle shame it cant be in a better spot
not saying its not viable bc it defintely is but defintely room for improvement compared to other playstyles

[teal nimbus]

this i agree with

[vague steppe]

baddest ill link u my axiom build when im home but ive tried pretty hard to make it as best as possible and crafts can add about 10k extra to my twains. It might be build issue but again i agree with Op i couldnt find almost anything that made it worth it to use crafts over the massive base attack dmg added from normal items like writhing growth or taurus

[teal nimbus]

icl jeweling is completely fucked but tailoring/armouring i see no issues with

[vague steppe]

is alka melee dead aswell? I havent seen any builds recently that actually utilize melee in any sort of way that classes can abuse spells. Twains seems to be the only thing close to a melee focus build and it is very lacking compared to almlst snytbing else in the game

[forest cloud]

alka tstack

[dreamy grove]

ts dead 😭

[teal nimbus]

i can get 500k with tstack alka

[vague steppe]

i dont have enough experince in craft T and A i have most of my experience in jewling

[dreamy grove]

jewling fr just spamming + lunar charm

[teal nimbus]

doom stone my goat

[dreamy grove]

occasional doom stone 😭

[teal nimbus]

(not that its any better since numbers are too low)

[vague steppe]

baddest ive seen recipe for like 60% nelee %60 spell but those always look like clickbait to me i need mkre experimve cause i never seem to be able to fit them into “real” builds

for Tailor and armoring *

[dreamy grove]

u can get these 'low req builds' but are so niche bc they have other reqs or lower dura that people just dont wanna say

[teal nimbus]

i was wondering how you could possibly get 60% spell for jeweling omg 😭

(or a number higher than 60 in jeweling really)

[teal nimbus]

60+ rainbow reqs 🔥

[vague steppe]

nooooo (i think 25-35 is decent enough)

either neg flip +int -spell. Or just juicing up lunar charms

[teal nimbus]

i also do think 60% of spell and 60% of melee is completely pointless but i am a hybrid hater

[vague steppe]

I might ask ur help/opnions when im home about my axiom build

[teal nimbus]

its a saturday so yea ofc

[vague steppe]

its friday night fir me still 😭

[teal nimbus]

do note ive only ever played tstack for archer but i assume the premise is the same

i remember the hmelee rings were like vortexian horizon whatever the item name is

and it had disturbing amounts of melee% and i think 0 reqs or negative reqs, i dont remember

[forest cloud]

no longera thing

[teal nimbus]

yea curse you linny

[forest cloud]

best is probably flipped naval

or silver bullet

or flipped elytra if ur a psychopath

[teal nimbus]

have you tried the epoch rings or is that too low number

[vague steppe]

U have ti admit “optimal” T H melee rings being just x6 silver bullets is absolutely the most lame thing ever

[forest cloud]

28% melee is fine

what else can u use anyway

[teal nimbus]

i believe youre already using this in your axiom bulid but this item is goated

[forest cloud]

like lost seconds 😭

or scrap amalgam

[forest cloud]

aestival is bugged

[teal nimbus]

umm wdym

[forest cloud]

40 RAW

not 40 %

[teal nimbus]

i thought it was weird a level 40 item had that much going for it

[forest cloud]

abominator is pretty cool

[teal nimbus]

but i wasnt one to complain

[vague steppe]

this isnt helping your argument that base items are almost 100x better than trying to figure iut crafts (also im a major idiot how did i not see these when looking 😭 disgregaurd maybe like half of ehat ive been talking abkut)

[teal nimbus]

he asked what else can you use so i just slapped the first thing i saw on wynnatlas 😭

[forest cloud]

i was thinking rings

[teal nimbus]

most items after the 2nd row are irrelevant

[forest cloud]

the ring situation is not that good

[vague steppe]

perfect chance to add “360” on a Mid on a ring is what im hearing

[forest cloud]

also a perfect chance to use crafteds

idk i feel like crafteds dont need to be super great

crafteds can just fill that niche spot

in a few builds

[dreamy grove]

whats the point of crafteds then 😭 you put in a lot of work to make them and also have to repair for no benefit then

[forest cloud]

its better is certain situations

but not just a slap for everything

[dreamy grove]

so we should stick to noncrafteds in most cases, doesnt this mean less variety

[vague steppe]

https://discord.com/channels/143852930036924417/1405376878726086741 (personally how i would make Twains arc more relivant eithout buffing T stack)

[dreamy grove]

i feel like you should be able to go either way, at least have crafteds have even power as non crafteds

[forest cloud]

it really just depends on the situation

u can go far with a good crafted

[tranquil chasm]

curse of ingredient flipping 🥀
it wouldd be nice for more hmlee ings to become available that arent absolutely busted for tstack im sure linny could cook usomething up eventually tm

[dreamy grove]

yes i get that crafteds shouldnt be better in every situation, but right now crafteds for hmelee specifically is especially weak and doesnt have a niche

[forest cloud]

erm but they do

[dreamy grove]

where

[forest cloud]

just ask any oblivion hmelee fan

or animo

[jade silo]

Sorry, they nerfed vortexian event horizon instead 😔

[vague steppe]

assassins arent real

[forest cloud]

they have some weird crafted stuff that is better

[dreamy grove]

hmelee shade is kinda killed with the rage changes no? quake doesnt do as much

[forest cloud]

no?

[dreamy grove]

even then the crafteds for that hmelee are different than a twains hmelee

[forest cloud]

if by killed u mean it can do longer do 8 digits

i guess

[jade silo]

some people still use it

[vague steppe]

Thats dead imo

[dreamy grove]

it certinaly does a lot less even if its not killed 🤷‍♂️
u do what 7m quakes every like 6 seconds which is fair ig

[forest cloud]

hmelee is hmelee

there is a use for all ts weird hmelee stuff

maybe would be better to specify

[dreamy grove]

blending earth into ur armor is not the same as spamming ironwood chips

ironwood chips are the only useful melee damage ing no?

[forest cloud]

there is cursed wings

searing heartwood maybe

[vague steppe]

i dont think ive ever seen a cursed wing craft

[forest cloud]

mostly just the elemental stuff

[dreamy grove]

20% vs the 30% on ironwood chips

[forest cloud]

lower reqs to get tighter sp

[dreamy grove]

less dmg i just go uncrafted

[forest cloud]

to fill the gaps between each ironwood chip

[dreamy grove]

why not just use more ironwood chips whar 😭 or an uncrafted which does more dmg

[forest cloud]

too high str req

[vague steppe]

^skill point req if u wanted to use different armor

[forest cloud]

so u supplement with something weaker with lower reqs

[dreamy grove]

so i just use uncrafted instead of cursed wings though bc cursed wings does less in hmelee

[forest cloud]

no

u can mix ings

[dreamy grove]

its the same loop,
too high req -> diffrent ing less dmg -> uncrafted

[forest cloud]

no

[vague steppe]

im agreeing eith op kn this acrually

[forest cloud]

u can do like 3 ironwood 3 cursed for example

[dreamy grove]

as u said in the im thread you need 170% melee to be about par with uncrafteds
how do i get this with cursed wings

[forest cloud]

its not the same as 6 ironwood or nothing

[dreamy grove]

im not getting the threshold to do more than an uncrafted here

[forest cloud]

u only need 140% for percentage

unless u use impossibility threshold

but then ur losing out on ehp

so its a sidegrade

its not about uncrafted vs crafteds here necessarily its moreso %dmg vs raw

[dreamy grove]

if i want to maximize dmg with crafteds i should be able to
not just impossibility threshold either, theres items like dbreak, taurus, obsidian helm the lsit goes on, its hard to beat these items

i cant build raw on crafteds theres no good options

[forest cloud]

hard pressed to find a crafted that can beat a mythic

[dreamy grove]

ok ignor dbreak, chestplate and helm options theres betetr options than crafteds

[vague steppe]

if a craft is getting me less than 10% dmg buff i likely eont make it as having to repair it vs uncrafted is not eorth

[forest cloud]

and even in spell builds there are powerhouse pieces like cannonade memento and sagittarius

that u cannot beat with a craft

[dreamy grove]

we're talking hmelee

[forest cloud]

yes

but clearly crafted is not always the solution

[dreamy grove]

it doesnt even have a niche in hmelee like you suggested it should, its jsut staright up worse

[vague steppe]

ok but we are sayung Hmelee options are boring and limited

[dreamy grove]

therse no variety in hmelee, its the same armor pieces

[forest cloud]

yea

[dreamy grove]

so shouldnt crafteds fill the gap of variety?

[forest cloud]

u can for accessories and leggings

and maybe helmets

[vague steppe]

Hiw woukd a “craftman” class deal with this

[forest cloud]

crafted weapons cap at slow

u cant melee on craftsman

[vague steppe]

u can still twains 😭😭😭😭😭

[dreamy grove]

the build ive made for axiom ONLY the helmet is crafted, everything else is outclassed but noncrafteds

[forest cloud]

what leggngs do u use

[vague steppe]

writhing growth

[dreamy grove]

impossibility, yes im sacraficing hp, but its impossible to make a higher dps crafted

[vague steppe]

huge base m helee boost

[forest cloud]

erm well do u see the issue

[dreamy grove]

if i want more hp i could just writhing growth no?

[forest cloud]

u are sacking hp

[dreamy grove]

writhing growth still does more and i have hp

im min maxing dps here lol

[forest cloud]

if ur min maxing

crafted is not always the solution

[dreamy grove]

i believe crafted should have a place, but it literally doesnt..? do i just go writhing or impossibility? like what

[forest cloud]

it does have a place on assassin tho

[dreamy grove]

so not on archer lets just ignore an entire class 😭

lets all play quake hmelee guys who likes twains or alka (is that a thing) hmelee anyawys

[forest cloud]

alka has no slots

also warrior hmelee is just not a thing

[dreamy grove]

idk example, therse other hmelee but ive been messing with axiom epoch so thats where my examples are from

regardless crafteds have no niche within the archer hmelee playstyle, not for hp or dps

this just means that hmelee crafteds need to be readjusted or changed in general no?

[vague steppe]

i mean if h melee is workint on other classes its pretty clear archwr has such linited options even when a core part if its game play if fully centered aroundit. Just weird to me. Twains could 100% use more support

[forest cloud]

that would affect assassin and idk if they want to change that or smth

[dreamy grove]

imma be so fr idt assassin should have that high quakes 😭 the fact you can mega boost it with a good team too to just nearly 1 shot bosses seems unhealthy no?

if this is the case twains with wind prison should do 5m minimum!

[forest cloud]

its like 4 mil max

[vague steppe]

i think its fine for shade to basicslly one shot this if they have built up the stacks for it (imo)

[forest cloud]

with every relevant raid buff

and team buff

[dreamy grove]

ok 4 mil isnt bad then so a buff to hmelee isnt that much of a buff to assassin? countering your own argument here...

[vague steppe]

twains is relivly safe compaired to gaving to walk up yo thinks and get a back stab

[forest cloud]

i have no particular opinion on the strength of assassin but its just something to keep in mind

[dreamy grove]

do you agree hmelee crafteds/ings should get a change in some shape or form at least (the point of this thread) because theres some niches it cant fill?

[vague steppe]

sadly im not so sure abymore. Them bringing up t stack is a real thing to concider

[dreamy grove]

how would this bring up tstack?
also i didnt even ask for them to add onto the melee %, i just asked for a req adjustment at least 😭

[vague steppe]

how d u buff h melee without juicing T melee by way mkreb

[forest cloud]

crafted hmelee for thunder is just not gonna exist

[vague steppe]

why?

[forest cloud]

kinda their philosophy for melee ings in general

i dont like it but whatever

raw goes thunder

% is strength

[vague steppe]

again silver bullets are a thing. U can get 30% thunder and 150 raw from x6 of yhem

[forest cloud]

%melee

[dreamy grove]

its terrible philosophy wtf😭

[vague steppe]

og whoops

[forest cloud]

% elemental is free reign

[dreamy grove]

so do we just not want twains to exist or whar

[forest cloud]

twains does exist

also stinger

[vague steppe]

i mean im not sure thats exactly a good idea. Seems like t H melee just uses bandaid patches to get what other H melee get ti do for free

[dreamy grove]

its a fun playstyle but again like ive said, it just doesnt put up to other playstyles (not saying its not viable bc it is)

[forest cloud]

i think everything is said in the context of axiom here

[vague steppe]

theres no earth bows yo use twains so we are forved to use thubder

[dreamy grove]

axiom is objectively the best twains bow as of rn

[forest cloud]

but stinger has great synergy with assassin hmelee stuff

since both are quake centric

[dreamy grove]

it still does less ive tried building it (unless i did bad)

[vague steppe]

i mean if yall had an earth bow this convo would be way different

[dreamy grove]

also hitting quake is 10x harder 😭

[forest cloud]

chain lightning does less than quake

always

[dreamy grove]

thats just powder, actual twains does less

[forest cloud]

and u have to rely on chains

[dreamy grove]

when i built it did maybe 200k more, for every 3 melees isnt worth the most

[vague steppe]

chain is free homing dmg and holding/gen focus. Thunder qol is WAY WAY MORE

[forest cloud]

does axiom do so much more dmg that 3 melees from axiom is worth 1 quake

[dreamy grove]

with spells yes

[forest cloud]

stinger has spells too

[jade silo]

I have heard of hmelee earth powdered stinger builds ye, it's good enough to replace an earthbow ig

[forest cloud]

if u want

[dreamy grove]

stinger spells again are a lot less

added up the 3 melees 3 phasing beams coursing restraint etc. it does less im pretty sure

[vague steppe]

B u use twains, insta thunder. Insta ghost trigger. Thus is much fastwr than builinf Quake and trying ti hit wuakes at max focus

[forest cloud]

also in practise ur not hitting much with those spells

[dreamy grove]

you cycle phasing beam between twains wdym, unless youre soloing or have aggro you should ideally hit everythiung

[forest cloud]

gonna be a few missing ticks of phray

[dreamy grove]

why what

[forest cloud]

cuz u need to move 😭

unless u just stare at the boss all the time

[dreamy grove]

again if you dont have aggro and are sitting where you dont have aggro you should ideally hit every beam every twains

you escape when you have aggro from any mob and do lose dps yes but in ideal situations

same is true for both stinger and axiom, but i believe axiom dmg from spells and twains is more than the pure quake dmg from stinger

[forest cloud]

ideal situations is cool but in practise trying to spell with hmelee is not practical

[dreamy grove]

more than not you can cycle phasing beam between twains which is ideal

unless you straight up dont have a team

[vague steppe]

No team means escape and GT every 3 seconds

[dreamy grove]

not even called phasing beam its called phantom ray 🙏 😭 cooked

[vague steppe]

easy to hold focus liek that

[dreamy grove]

THIS ISTN WHAT THIS THREAD IS ABOUT THO JUST PLS DO SOMETHIGN ABT HMELEE CRAFTEDS!!

[forest cloud]

it is tho because we are analysing where hmelee support is least

and its thunder hmelee

but like

there is a lot of support for earth hmelee

[vague steppe]

So buff T h melee

[dreamy grove]

even if stinger is better theres still a problem with crafteds since it doesnt fill the niche its supposed to with thunder hmelee no?

[forest cloud]

thunder hmelee will always be funky

[vague steppe]

esp after adding in the only good way to use twains is using thunder

[dreamy grove]

isnt that a concern then, shouldnt this be fixed in some way or bandaided

[vague steppe]

THEB STOP MAKING H MELEE THUNDER BOWS

[forest cloud]

theres only 1

[vague steppe]

ITS THE BEST OPTIONS

[forest cloud]

epoch wasnt even hmelee in the first place

[dreamy grove]

epoch hmelee killed after that one patch sadge

literally halved its raw melee

[vague steppe]

u cant fault players for using uour items then going “why do they make making build with this so awkward”

[forest cloud]

raw melee

makes zero

difference

[dreamy grove]

what 😭

[forest cloud]

ur losing one whole ring of dps

which is not a lot to being with

[vague steppe]

raw melee is extremelt important for h melee what the F are u on about

[dreamy grove]

🤷‍♂️ it was more viable at one point for one reason or another

[forest cloud]

its simply just because there is so much of it

dawnbreak would not be dawnbreak without 2k raw

[vague steppe]

thwres a reson i made T raw melee and not using basic 30% melee. Raw is super imprtant fkr scaling of h melee

like in baltro. Yiu beed a certaib amlunt of chips or else your xmult is uskess

[forest cloud]

not how it works

% is multiplicative on weapon base dmg

raw is addative

but like

u need to math it

so like is 500 raw better than 30% melee per se

its all just based on the pieces

and the weapon base

[vague steppe]

ubless im wrong sbkut how the dmg calc works again raw is so much worth. I make by build in builder abd compaired. T raw gets 117k twains basic % gets 105k

[forest cloud]

its just the pieces no raw vs melee

raw pieces usually just give so much % is not worth it

but with stuff like doomsday omen

the % is high enough it can beat raw

hmelee is just weird like that

[vague steppe]

ok so now we are sayinr crafted could use more raw ing. Silver bullets being the only option for axiom is stupid and is build limiting

or make a earth bow

[forest cloud]

stinger 🌈

stinger is all the elements

anyway

[vague steppe]

isnt stinger a legendary? Also thats like dayinf freedom

[forest cloud]

more raw is cool i dont really see an issue with current percent melee ings

[vague steppe]

That aint it cheif

[forest cloud]

yea

and axiom is a fabled

both non mythic

[vague steppe]

yaaaa fable much closer to mythic than a lvl 90 legendary

[forest cloud]

not really how it works

stats is stats

rarity is whatever

[vague steppe]

b if u can make a stringer buikd have mkre than 100k twains ill eat my words. But that thing is 💩 imo

[forest cloud]

ok give me a moment

[vague steppe]

(fuck im thinking about cluster) (im still curious tho)

[forest cloud]

https://wynnbuilder.github.io/builder/#CK0CumeCym056GxFQ-1+FY-n9W5kqUmcocr0

Wynnbuilder build:
Nychthemeron
Taurus
Writhing Growth
Blind Thrust
Lost Seconds
Lost Seconds
Death Grasp
H-209 Miniature Defibrillator
Stinger [e6e6e6]

102k

not optimal

[vague steppe]

dawg taurus writhing growth bling trust…..

you not see the massive ankut of raw you are needing

[forest cloud]

doomsday omen is definitely better

[vague steppe]

this made me face palm so much

[forest cloud]

it has nothing to do with raw

[vague steppe]

fine do it wouth raw cheating then

[forest cloud]

100+100 is gonna be better than 1x2

its all relative

hmelee pieces just favour raw over %

[vague steppe]

so i go back h melee uses raw so much more. Give crafts a reasonble way to get them

currently its get raw from items and gwt % from crafts. Thats limiting for builds and kinda boring

[forest cloud]

-tier raw thunder ing would be so weird tho

idk if they would do that

but epipelagic eye is a thing so...

[vague steppe]

then stop making twains bows be thunder

[forest cloud]

im fine with more thunder melee crafts

current hmelee ings fill that niche where % is overpowering to the point where the crazy raw melee numbers dont suffice

which is most meta hmelee daggers and a limited selection of bows

[vague steppe]

so h nelee is being abused by assassin and aecher suffers because if it?

thats kinda lame

[forest cloud]

basically

[night hull]

There will be infinitely more downsides to adding more heavy melee options than upsides

[forest cloud]

not earth has no support from crafteds

if u are earth

u have fun

[vague steppe]

how so?

I hate when people say blanlet statwments liek this and dint back it up by anything

[night hull]

Any feasible option will either make Sslow free on every build or will be flipped to make sfast easy as hell, i think ironwood is the perfect singular choice and should just be outclassed later on with new additions

[forest cloud]

searing heartwood 😔

[dry cove]

one big issue with hmelee ings in general is the fact that you can just flip them, so you run into some silly situation in balancing where you would sometimes either make something too strong or too weak on the flipped or non-flipped recipe

an ironwood chip buff is not entirely out of the question, however, reducing str req would mess up the req-cancel recipes that use ironwood chips, and increasing melee% would make flipped ironwood tier items a bit too weak (considering they arent even meta rn)

a better option in general is to release an alternative that doesnt cost strength rather than changing existing tier ingredients, which are kinda fucked up in terms of balancing anyway

[forest cloud]

elephelk req cancel 🤤

or urdars stone cancel 🤤

[dry cove]

LF DMG

[night hull]

oblivinyan wins once again

[forest cloud]

just dont be earth smh

[dry cove]

flipped ironwood gives tier which is mega good for lb and aco smh

[vague steppe]

tbh again why i go with buffing twains in the skill tree instead kf with items kr crafg

[dreamy grove]

can we make tiers unflippable 😭 ts so hard to balance

[forest cloud]

i think you deserve it if u play sslow acolyte/sslow lightbender

[dry cove]

unintuitive + its interesting how they are flippable

the melee ings just... need a lot of tuning

[forest cloud]

flipped ritual catalyst moment

[dry cove]

if melee was actually good ritual catalyst wouldve been bombed

[forest cloud]

NOOOO

can ritual catalyst be buffed

55 int with nothing to show

[night hull]

8 mana steal

[dry cove]

as if it isnt already strong af with 100 dex 100 int war builds smh

[forest cloud]

divzah is NOT real

[dry cove]

IK YOUR ASS IS BOMB STACKING OVER THERE

[forest cloud]

dawhg

my ass dont war

actually lie

i warred yesterday

[dry cove]

whats current war meta again
divzer/cata/reso?

[forest cloud]

idk

i used

crabs reso

[forest cloud]

(insert thunder weapon) ✅

[full gate]

Woah I missed a huge hmelee discussion

[full gate]

4k effective on axiom iirc

[forest cloud]

not really about the weapon

its just that raw is not particularly special

happens for hmelee to have crazy raw

[candid raptor]

Twain's Arc would unironically be less fun if it did more than ~100k dps, it's the only build in the game where pacing makes it enjoyable.

[full gate]

I disagree, like the other person said raw makes a huge difference, that's why lower level bows like attrition actually stand a chance, that's why removing the int req from attrition makes it better than axiom

[forest cloud]

i just need twains to be able to one shot mobs

[full gate]

I completely agree with this statement

[forest cloud]

well uh i think you are talking about different things

raw is not actually important on normal hmelee weapons

attrition is an outlier

[vague steppe]

What the fuck are you yapping about? I comepletly disagree with thus wrf

[full gate]

Pacing? Tf are you talking about? What does pacing have to do with dps?

[vague steppe]

if u want “pacing” play monster light bender💩

[candid raptor]

100k makes all fights last a duration where they feel meaningful and force you to play around the enemies

[night hull]

Tickling the boss long enough for it to show me all its attacks >.<

[vague steppe]

^

[night hull]

Can also just play a build bad enough to make the ability stay at the same level

[candid raptor]

Twain's Arc is actually fun though, and it's fun because of how complex and restrictive the movement is, if the enemies died before they reached you though then it would lose that aspect

[vague steppe]

please look at my thread about 360 twains

hoky shit i disagree with yoy so much on like a fudimental level

[candid raptor]

Please give a single agument in your favor then, as so far all you've done is insult me.

[night hull]

Your build, rolls, aspects, and tomes can always get worse, anything can have good pacing if you take note of the limitless choice you have

[vague steppe]

thw twaisn yiur describe ja boring corner twains whwre u escape and sit still waiting to pull agro again. Its boring af abd makes twains auch a lamw llay style

[candid raptor]

most builds feel like hell to use with low damage

[night hull]

So if the ability itself was good you wouldn't have to play with an optimized well rolled build

Win-Win for everyone ?

[candid raptor]

you are drunk.

[vague steppe]

on my phone no auto correbt please just try to interpret what in saying

[night hull]

use finger typing it's good

[mighty hazel]

https://tenor.com/view/wtf-confused-look-gif-24835232

[dreamy grove]

me when i speak gibberish

[candid raptor]

I've decided I'm not emotionally invested in this enough to argue it, and wouldn't mind much if Twain's did more damage, even if I think it would make it slightly less fun.

they could triple the conversion and I still would barely care.

[vague steppe]

tldr low dmg twains is just fps aim simulator with escape mixed in when ever yoy get agro. So braibless sit in a corner twains, escape to abother corner, brainless twains. Repeat. The low dmg twains gameplay “pacing” might be some of the lowest skill lowest brain game llay. I go back to my “360” idea as it adds a much more dynamic and unique way to buikd dmg that ties both ibto movement os escape and adding in the “fun” “fps part of twains” the pacing you describe is generally boring and leads to very simple gameplay loops that mostly rely on you not holding agro

i mean ok leave? Ur the one with the 💩 opinion

[full gate]

...what's wrong with the current Twain's gameplay...

[mighty hazel]

How would it doing more damage make it less fun 💀💀😭😭😭

[full gate]

(without 360, not the dmg part)

[vague steppe]

No agro. Sit and do nothing but aim. Agro, escape till you dont have agro. Sit still brainless aim

[candid raptor]

all peons getting 1-shot and not having to dodge them

[full gate]

It's not brainless...

[mighty hazel]

What bro 😭😭😭😭

[forest cloud]

https://tenor.com/view/muerto-gif-16250174877271582365

[vague steppe]

it me it is. Irs gameplay loop is so simple ot cab be broken fown into 2 state, agro and no agro

[candid raptor]

I already said I decided I don't care much.

[mighty hazel]

First of all thats like 90% of the game

[ripe orchid]

What's the point of gatekeeping

[night hull]

RB alt account.

[ripe orchid]

This was the downfall of some ancient civilization

[mighty hazel]

Punscake alt account

[candid raptor]

360 is a shit idea that couldn't be implemented in Minecraft, wouldn't work on Lagcraft even if it could be, and isn't something that should be mechanically incentivized.

[night hull]

You'd be surprised how well they make things work when they really put their minds 2 it

[mighty hazel]

What peons are you taking about anyways most non boss mobs get shit on either way

[vague steppe]

aster its super easy to implimwnt. Ive talked with Ct about the implications ot would takw to add, its nit hard

[candid raptor]

Have you ever worked with mods or datapacks before?

[vague steppe]

better than your dumb ass idea of “pacing” acrual missing brain thiughts

[candid raptor]

Please stop insulting my opinions baselessly.

[ripe orchid]

You should share and take pride in the fact that you're the goat of hmelee crafteds

[vague steppe]

From my understanunf of hoe servers tracj pkaywr data is super easy to pull the players direvtion and see if you triggers all north west south east direvtions. Its not baseless also you are an acrual r tard

imo

Indint mean to gwt tolted yoy are just so stupid in my eyes

[dreamy grove]

pls fix autocorrect 😭 🙏

[candid raptor]

Yes, getting player facing direction is easy, but detecting rotation is not, and the input consistency that would be required to judge if someone did a 360 is well beyond what both Minecraft and Wynncraft are capable of doing within the margin necessary to make using the ability feel consistent.

[vague steppe]

irs not…

literally litho has mobs that have face tracking mexhanics. Its literally in the game already

the dude that make u chake your mouse, it’s literally trackinf extactly ehat in talking about

[candid raptor]

I told you, rotation is insanely hard by comparison, and at 20tps with high latency, it's not possible to make consistent.

[vague steppe]

you arent lisyening whatvwr ☠️

Just know ived talked with staff/ct about how hard it eould be to add this is, irs really not

[candid raptor]

the data your client sends to the server tells it what direction you are facing as a vector, not as a rotation.

[full gate]

Ok guys, this thread isnt about 360 twains, you can take that discussion to the original thread

[ripe orchid]

Is this a typing quirk

[vague steppe]

👍 buff twains more to be w play style that can stand on its own (no im aruck on my phone without auto correbt atm still)

[night hull]

Hey man I Don't Think You should leave that last word there

[frigid jolt]

Ragebait victim

[night hull]

A moderator that isn't bee town might happen 2 read It

[vague steppe]

if i gwt muted for an hour for being mad at an idoit, ngl i wont care

[forest cloud]

https://tenor.com/view/ssoggycat-shark-soggy-cat-there-be-treasure-gif-9107217871470849053

wait lemme actually read what they sent

[night hull]

gg

[forest cloud]

@vague steppe dont filter evade

[vague steppe]

on my phone i cant eveb promkse what i type rn

trjst me im not trying ti avkud the filter kn purpose

[forest cloud]

dont purposely filter evade

[vague steppe]

lpl im not

[forest cloud]

dawg

e

is very far from space bar

nice try

[teal nimbus]

as much as i love making new recipes its really cringe to have to think of something else every patch or two and craft that

ive only been playing for a year so i dont have an infinite supply of le

[vague steppe]

incoming mute from galatuis

[quasi bobcat]

plz make hmelee good

[lone saddle]

Haven't read this post yet but I'll reverse engineer all the gatekept crafteds and post them

[dry cove]

its a easy brute forcer usage

[lone saddle]

Nah I probably already have it saved in my recipes document I'm just on mobile and haven't read the thread

Figured that there would be at least a couple gatekept recipes here given this is a crafted feedback thread

Fwiw people tend to gatekeep suboptimal builds and crafteds anyways so if you have a brain you can probably do better

[dry cove]

the recipe is claimed to be 169 melee with 90 str requirement, and since each ironwood chip provides 30% melee at the cost of 24 str req, about 112 melee% is sourced from the ironwood chips

hence we are left with ~57 melee% that is sourced from a black hole, and coincidentally plasteel + unsettling void + negative rafflesia flips black hole to -275% effectiveness which makes it give 55 melee%, but due to rounding it may have been caused by some other effectiveness ings

alternatively the melee may also be sourced from enchanted chain links

ok now, just noticed the lower bound being 146%

[full gate]

Thanks for your wisdom, wise

[dry cove]

and 84-87 dura

[craggy bronze]

#1 crafted gatekeep rule do not send any information abt your crafted whatsoever

[night hull]

yeah that recipe is like practically solved there's only so many options for effectiveness ings lol

[dry cove]

assuming the recipe is only constructed by black hole and ironwood, we can roughly estimate (absolute) total effectiveness of each ing by solving the following:

let x and y be absolute value of the effectiveness of ironwood and black hole respectively
30x+20y=169
26x+15y=146

which yields 550% for ironwood and -20% for black hole, inconsistent with the estimation from the effectiveness side of things, meaning some other melee% ings are utilised, most likely enchanted chain links

alternatively it might have been req-cancelled

so lets say the recipe is only enchanted chain link and ironwood chips

doing the same thing as above

30x+9y=169
26x+9y=146

y is negative, hence enchanted chain link is most likely unused

since the absolutely value for black hole and ironwood chips are both really low, theres a high likelihood that the recipe is a str cancel one

[ripe orchid]

Mf trying to math it out

[dry cove]

my ass doesnt have the brute forcer on this pc 😭

[ripe orchid]

Your crafteds are not that revolutionary for CT to hawk them down within 2 months

[dry cove]

gn https://wynnbuilder.github.io/crafter/#4CSOfWnCSCSCSmc81

Leggings Lv. 103-105 (3✫, 3✫)
[ Ironwood Chips | Ritual Catalyst
Negative Rafflesia | Ironwood Chips
Ironwood Chips | Ironwood Chips ]

fucking obli exclusive recipe 😭

[full gate]

Gg

[ripe orchid]

Eye of the beast accs survived like 8 months for crying out loud

[teal nimbus]

so its just like every other recipe ill make another one later...

[full gate]

So I saw Rit Catalyst, I didn't wanna use it cuz of the int req

[full gate]

It's unusable cuz int

[dry cove]

rit cata is the only way i avoided it at first as well but then i realised such low str req is only possible with rit cat

hence its probably an obli hmelee recipe

[flat kiln]

i wanna make a larger post about the state of every build type, hmeles, heavy spell, spell spam, tstack, hybrid, etc and their interaction with every archetype soon, this post gonna help a lil cuz i have no experience with crafted for most of these playstyles

so I'm just putting this here so it's saved

[ripe orchid]

Yup

[full gate]

So seeing that it's only possible with rit cata, reducing ironwood str req is still justifiable, yea?

[teal nimbus]

much more sustainable than every other patch if you ask me

[dry cove]

so like wdym by putting thought into the recipe this thing doesnt even involve some insane effectiveness ing synergy smh

anyway 158% intless 100 str req
https://wynnbuilder.github.io/crafter/#4KZmaSdCSCSCSmc81

Leggings Lv. 103-105 (3✫, 3✫)
[ Black Hole | Doom Stone
Plasteel Plating | Ironwood Chips
Ironwood Chips | Ironwood Chips]

[full gate]

If this was melee dmg raw, it might work for attrition :(

[teal nimbus]

youve put in a lot more effort than the 1000th recipe involving decaying heart rafflesia trunk and thats exactly what i mean

[ripe orchid]

Your crafteds whether or not you share them to the entire world will last many months minimum

[dry cove]

also like why the fuck would i nerf hmelee recipes 😭

[ripe orchid]

If they got nerfed before that point it wasn't your crafteds that made it happen

[teal nimbus]

complaining about ings while using the same recipe template is a decision of all time

[teal nimbus]

i dont have insider information 😔

[full gate]

Insider info?

[teal nimbus]

ct does whatever they want really and i have no counterplay

[ripe orchid]

New META Oblivion Hmelee shadestepper 3m DPS! - Wynncraft

[teal nimbus]

the hmelee situation is insane

[full gate]

But it's hmelee, hmelee in it's current state isn't even close to the best, it won't get nerfed

[ripe orchid]

CT we need to talk.

[teal nimbus]

maybe someone has something better than i do (probably does), maybe ct just feels like nerfing it, maybe fruma will bring new ings

the point is i have no idea whats in store next patch

[full gate]

Honestly, just reveal your crafteds, let others enjoy it too, and if it gets nerfed, take pride in it

[teal nimbus]

keep in mind we saw laby got nerfed significantly and it was nowhere near the best!

[full gate]

Don't speech bubble me

[dry cove]

at least you can now talk about your crafted because your only worry is no longer a concern

[night hull]

nerf every non obli ingredient it's time for a change 🤑

[craggy bronze]

yea its not a crafted issue u can never expect anything to not randomly get nuked or changed in a patch take the entropy and entire rift situation for example

[full gate]

if you think any item, playstyle or ability is unfairly good, expect it to get nerfed, simple

[teal nimbus]

it has happened before a couple months ago

[teal nimbus]

anyways guys obli really needs a nerf its very op 😔 bcs my no longer gatekept recipe is overtuned fr fr

[craggy bronze]

yea 160 is like a rlly big number!! too op

[teal nimbus]

you better round it up to 170 brocacho

[craggy bronze]

mb i just forgot

[night hull]

subjoined craziest thing to happen to oblivion

[verbal pawn]

Reverse engineered this recipe because I was bored https://wynnbuilder.github.io/crafter/#4CSOfWnCSCSCSmc81

Oh nvm someone else already did it 💔

[teal nimbus]

next time someone makes a similar post and use decaying/bob/elephelk/borange/rafflesia as an example and i manage to make better im just gonna say a range instead 🥀

[night hull]

the best gatekeep is where no one knows you're even gatekeeping anything

[teal nimbus]

i still do want to promote critical thinking instead of copy pasting

[verbal pawn]

So true bestie

[teal nimbus]

ofc public recipes are extremely suboptimal...

[night hull]

idk with decaying and rafflesia existing you can't really make a recipe that's too terrible if you tried, pretty much everything is good enough

[teal nimbus]

yes but its like getting a high yellow roll no matter what (if we compare to more optimal recipes)

[verbal pawn]

In this case it’s more like getting a 92% roll instead of 100%

[teal nimbus]

not wrong

[night hull]

for most spell stuff optimal recipe really is just decaying rafflesia and vomit all over the other 4 slots

melee's more creative but also limited in a way

[main mountain]

https://wynnbuilder.github.io/crafter/#4CSWnOayaCSWnmc81 what yall think abt my hmelee recipe

[teal nimbus]

i get your idea but only 3 slots since you cant use top right corner for a non-meta ing

[night hull]

the choice is pre determined based on ur dura i guess yea

[night hull]

is the heavy in the room with us

5 int req hol on this oblivion

[uneven river]

btw my axiom build id say id link when i got home

https://wynnbuilder.github.io/builder/#CK09DmeCym0SQ41H8H8H8H8H8H8m9IG44X4X4X4X4X4X0d81On1k5m7y2NUVnEERzu7

Wynnbuilder build:
Darksteel Full Helm
Taurus
Writhing Growth
Dawnbreak
CR-44X4X4X4X4X4X0d81
CR-44X4X4X4X4X4X0d81
Momentum
Gigabyte
Axiom [t6t6t6t6]

interesting, quickly looking im not sure what id change to push for more dmg. from my limited knowlwge on crafts i dont think u can do any better?

[dreamy grove]

ive tried it is WHY i made this post 💀

idt its even worth to play with 9.5k ehp im ngl but its funny to have a big twains number, but its literally like 7k more than the other

[native grotto]

Yesyesyes

[native grotto]

https://youtu.be/pQybgzcGUxk?si=41HnJEHq5Nv6dnwI

[dim carbon]

can we also buff epoch?

bottom tier ehp for above average dps is unacceptable from one of the only good bows on archer

[tranquil chasm]

i wass using et animosity for a bit prenerf and it was nto worth it at all with the cr legg recipe i had lol

it was like 190% melee or smth stupid and made me have 140 str, which was horrid for raid buff scaling

[lone saddle]

fwiw I think most no life class builders already have access to brute forcers for crafteds

or they're experienced enough to be able to reverse engineer crafteds on their own

or both

in the arms race of gatekeepers vs class builders I think the class builders win after 2 hours at most

[native grotto]

I have bruteforcers and i still make better stuff myself (so called coming up with changing weapon powders so earth raw spell does smth)

[lone saddle]

I mean for crafting in general there are like 4 different types of crafting concepts/templates and you can just mix and match until you find what you need

you can effectiveness stack, flip, both, or req cancel

[verbal pawn]

That’s why actual gatekeepers will gatekeep that something exists in the first place

[lone saddle]

it's almost impossible to gatekeep the very idea of a crafted either lol

[verbal pawn]

That’s why the whole build concept is gatekept instead!

No one really gatekeeps a single crafted

[lone saddle]

🤷 I think gatekeeping has its place in keeping out the bottom 99% of wynn players from accessing top builds

but if you stare at wynnbuilder for thousands of hours and you really really hate gatekeeping you could probably just offload like 3 builds per day and still completely ruin gatekeeping

like if you spend an ungodly amount of time class building it's not very hard to imagine the list of stats a war build would require and then you'd just mix and match using existing templates or concepts until you come up with something that's definitively BIS

actually for war builds you would also need to know how to bug abuse so probably not the most relevant example

[native grotto]

:3

[night hull]

That's why you shouldn't let anyone know there's even something being gatekept

[verbal pawn]

Creating crafteds isn’t the hard part it’s coming up with new ideas/tech

[verbal pawn]

That too you’d have literally nothing to work off of

If people actually care

[full gate]

15 hrs on uncrafted gears, and 5 hours on crafted gears should be enough to achieve this

[lone saddle]

I have a whole document of builds saved that I'm fairly sure are BIS for silly bug abuse tech

[full gate]

New tech like having 0 dmg to proc initiator on sharp? Well it doesn't work 😔

[lone saddle]

like I don't think it's that hard if you're just a no life class builder

I just don't go around leaking builds constantly for the sake of public interest and to not receive death threats from warrers

[verbal pawn]

No one’s going to send you death threats for leaking builds 💔

[full gate]

As a naive person, how bad are death threats even?

[native grotto]

This only very skilled people can see what tech something is by stuff like particles so it gets super hard

[verbal pawn]

That’s why you only play in graid with people who know!

[native grotto]

I have more than 70h on wynnbuilder is that enough (probably more than 100)

[lone saddle]

there is no way you have only 70h on wynnbuilder 😭

[full gate]

Assuming you spent time on crafteds too, yea

[lone saddle]

I swear you're a way more prolific class builder than that

[native grotto]

Could be 150 lowk

[lone saddle]

idk maybe I'm just the exception, I definitely have more hours on wynnbuilder than the actual game

[full gate]

Not just you lol

[lone saddle]

at least in the low 2000s

[native grotto]

Or more than 150 :3

I nowadays spent about 2h a day on wynnbuilder

Used to be 3

[lone saddle]

I used to spend like 8h a day on wynnbuilder during covid

crazy work

[native grotto]

Lmao yeah

Spending 5h on getting 1% melee dmg more is fun

[lone saddle]

https://wynnbuilder.github.io/crafter/#4KZmaSdCSCSCSmc81

Leggings Lv. 103-105 (3✫, 3✫)
[ Black Hole | Doom Stone
Plasteel Plating | Ironwood Chips
Ironwood Chips | Ironwood Chips]
anyways idk if this has been posted but this is a really easy black hole flip recipe

[native grotto]

Never made non int recipes for hmelee lol

[lone saddle]

they exist but they're slightly worse